# Simplicity 5216H with a few problems



## BlackSheepOfChaplin (Sep 3, 2021)

Hi. I just got this from a relative. Briggs two cyl. 16hp. motor. They said they had issues with and thought it was the coil. I replaced the plugs and coil and managed to get it running. I used a business card to gap the coils. Ran mint afterwards. I used it for a few hours total. Tonight I used it for an hour. I shut it down and pulled the deck off because I need it for hauling, not mowing. Immediately after removing the deck, the following happened:

Problem 1: When I went to start it, it just cranked and cranked. Would not fire, when normally it fires almost instantly.

Problem 2: I disengaged the transmission and rolled it to my shed, all of 75 feet. I tried starting it again and absolutely nothing happened. Not even a click. Felt like one of the safeties weren't engaged. I'm only aware of the one on the PTO and one on the shifter. Is there one on the brake\clutch?

Problem 3: I re-engaged the transmission to see if maybe there was a safety on the lever I was unaware of, and still nothing. I gave up and disengaged the transmission again to push it into the shed and the wheels were still locked. The dump valves appears to move freely with the lever, but the transmission is still engaged.

Any thoughts or ideas?


----------



## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Welcome to the forum.
Since you have removed the deck, Is the mower function disengaged? There should be a brake safety switch which will prevent the tractor from starting with the brake off and there may very well be a seat safety switch as well to prevent the tractor from starting without the operator in the seat. In regards to the transmission, perhaps roll the tractor back and forth a little while pulling the lever to disengage the transmission.
See if you have any luck and keep us posted.


----------



## BlackSheepOfChaplin (Sep 3, 2021)

Hi. Thank you for responding. There is a safety switch for the mower\PTO, I turned it off using the lever and by jamming my fingers in there. Still no good. Surprisingly, the seat doesn't have a safety. I also tried rolling the tractor back and forth and it' still locked.


----------



## BlackSheepOfChaplin (Sep 3, 2021)

I tried the machine again the next morning and it fired right up and the transmission engagement issue also resolved. However, after the machine has been run for a while and I shut it down, it won't start. I replaced the solenoid in hopes that it (along with the new plugs and coil) would remedy the hot non-starting issue, but it did not. The transmission issues seems to have resolved itself. I suspect it has to do with whatever is causing it not to start when hot. Any one else have any ideas?


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Have you checked the spark at the spark plug/s when trying to start, needs a good blue spark, check with the engine cold and then run the engine and get hot and try checking the spark again, if no or weak yellow spark, have coil tested, I know you have replaced the coil, but these do fail as has been the case on this forum.

Also check the vent in the fuel cap, check the fuel pump also, what you are saying points to a failing coil when it gets hot.


----------



## BlackSheepOfChaplin (Sep 3, 2021)

Thanks FredM. Will check the spark. 
I did pull the gas cap off while trying to start it hot, no change.


----------



## BlackSheepOfChaplin (Sep 3, 2021)

I checked the coil today. On 20 ohms, it read 2.99-3.05. I regapped the plugs. I put a fuel shutoff and ran the machine until it starved out and tried to restart it while hot to no avail. I checked the spark and I had spark. The spark tester I have doesn't really allow you to see the color, but it seemed steady. I'm at a loss as to what next?


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Does your carby have a solenoid on the bottom of the carby, if so, check to see if this is working consistently, although not likely, a bad circuit could cause this to fail at times, and if the solenoid loses power, if will shut the engine down.

That is if your machine has one.

Hole in fuel cap blocked??, fuel pump playing up, something in the fuel tank blocking the fuel outlet, fuel filter clogging up, just a few suggestions to check, does the starter spin the engine easy or does the starter balk, if balking, valves need to be adjusted.

And maybe the carby needs to be serviced, have you removed the air cleaner cover and filter when it is hot and wont start and squirted a very small amount of fuel down the carby throat and tried to start the engine?, what does the air filter element look like, if this is clogged up, this will cause the engine to flood and give you hard starting, I am running out of reasons to throw your way, so hopefully one of these may solve your problem.


----------



## BlackSheepOfChaplin (Sep 3, 2021)

Thanks FredM. I ran the machine. Turned it off, took off the air cleaner and tried to restart it. I noticed a small splash of fuel coming out. I think it might be flooding out when warm. The solenoid is $100. This sucks. Already spent $100 on the coil and ignition solenoid. Engine is a Briggs 402707 0145 01. Think I might have to dump it.


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

You don't need the carby solenoid, you can either cut the needle or buy a carby bowl nut, if you go that way, then if you shut the engine down without idling back, it will most likely backfire a lot as the engine rolls to a stop.

If the engine runs well, why toss it, I did ask if the starter spins the engine easy or does the engine balk when trying to start??.


----------



## BlackSheepOfChaplin (Sep 3, 2021)

Thanks. 
The starter spins the engine very nicely. It either starts almost immediately or not at all. No balking either way. The way it sounds, you would think there is no spark, but there is.


----------



## BlackSheepOfChaplin (Sep 3, 2021)

I think you are on to something. With the air cleaner off and I try a hot start, I can see fuel being spit out of the carb. So, I unplugged the solenoid and it fired up and ran for a minute, but then died. It seems like it is flooding on hot start.


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Do you try and start with the throttle in the full choke position on hot start?, I have the 22HP briggs vertical shaft and I have to use choke to start either cold or hot and hasn't been any different in the 10 years I have owned the zero turn.


----------



## BlackSheepOfChaplin (Sep 3, 2021)

Cold start: full throttle\full choke. Seems normal. However, when trying to start hot, I discovered yesterday that it likes: No throttle and full choke. Any other combination will not start the machine. I still haven't tried it enough to see if this is the trick to a hot start. Will test more today/


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

BlackSheepOfChaplin said:


> I think you are on to something. With the air cleaner off and I try a hot start, I can see fuel being spit out of the carb. So, I unplugged the solenoid and it fired up and ran for a minute, but then died. It seems like it is flooding on hot start.


As a last resort, I would check the valve clearances, fuel shouldn't spit out of the carby throat, this is usually associated with blow back from the inlet valve not seating properly or the tappet clearance non existent.


----------



## BlackSheepOfChaplin (Sep 3, 2021)

No throttle, full choke, fired right up hot. I think that's the trick. I think adjusting valves on these means grinding, which is beyond my ability, so I'll have to live with it. Thanks very much for your time and advice.


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

BlackSheepOfChaplin said:


> No throttle, full choke, fired right up hot. I think that's the trick. I think adjusting valves on these means grinding, which is beyond my ability, so I'll have to live with it. Thanks very much for your time and advice.


So your engine is a horizontally opposed twin and not a vee twin with OHV's?.


----------



## BlackSheepOfChaplin (Sep 3, 2021)

I believe so. It's a 402707 Briggs.


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

you are right then about pulling the valves, I was thinking it was the vee twin, got mixed up with another poster, hopefully the problem is fixed now by using the choke, a lot of engines will not start hot or cold without choke.


----------



## BlackSheepOfChaplin (Sep 3, 2021)

Thanks again. 
Another question: I tested the battery while the machine was running and the reading jumped all over the place from 14V down to 6V. Bad battery or something else?


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

BlackSheepOfChaplin said:


> Thanks again.
> Another question: I tested the battery while the machine was running and the reading jumped all over the place from 14V down to 6V. Bad battery or something else?


Try cleaning the connections in all of the power supply, from the alternator to bridge rectifier to switch, follow the cable through and if this doesn't fix the problem then you will have to go deeper by checking the stator windings and the rectifier.


----------

