# Front Loader Not Working. Help.



## Chick-N-Picker (May 26, 2021)

I am trying to fix a late 70's early 80's Ford I think 5600 (of memory is correct) with a 2445 QT Bush Hog front loader.

It is my great aunt's tractor. She is 78. It won't raise/lower or tilt right. It will try and might jump a little but then it stops and does nothing.

The hydraulic control valve was leaking at the bottom part where the springs are. Took off the covers and one of the springs were messed up and had some chewed up O-ring in it.

They no longer make this control valve but Bush Hog gave me an alternate part number that works. It cost her $1600. Got it all hooked up yesterday and it is doing the same thing. Poured in 5 gallons of hydraulic fluid as it was low but should be good now, I guess. That's all her son bought. It's wanting to move it and will a few inches then sort of jumps and hits a wall. This is for both lower/raise and tilt.

Asked her son when did all this start. He says after changing a leaking hose. He shows me the hose. The black part of the hose appears the same size but at the fittings on both ends it appears to be smaller than the other hoses.

He said that is what the guy made him when he took the old hose up there.

1. The old hydraulic control valve was ceetainly wore out so it's nice to have a new one.
2. Could that new hose be wrong and be causing oil restricting flow and not allowing it work?
3. Any other advice or things to try? The fact it worked fine until a hose change, and now it has a brand new hydraulic control valve on it makes me think this might be something simple.


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## Chick-N-Picker (May 26, 2021)

It just seems amazing to me that everything was working fine until he changed 1 hose. So there is no way he could have hooked it up wrong. The only thing I can think of is that the hose is not right or is being restricted. The hydraulic valve control is brand new so I know it's no longer that.

Would it help if I filmed what it was doing and showed y'all? I'd really like to fix this for her. She's already spent $1600 on the control valve so I'd like to be able to save her the expensive cost of calling somebody out there.

Edit: I switched the fittings and hooked up the control valve not him. The hose he changed was up closer to the bucket before I ever took off the control valve and put the new one on.


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## HarveyW (Sep 15, 2014)

Hi Chick-N-Picker, welcome to the forum. 

Approach this methodically. Lower the loader to the ground. Disconnect the hoses that go to the bottom side of the lift cylinders and hold them in a clean bucket. Function the control valve to lift the bucket. See if you get clean fluid and good volume flow. There may be some air in the fluid, which will make a mess.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

I think you need to clarify a bit more on the sequence of events here. The loader worked at some point. Then something happened, something was changed, something else was changed, now it doesn't work. 

This all started because of leaks at the bottom of the valve? Broken springs, one new hose, a $1600 valve, and now you're where? Your story is a little hard to follow, and I may be way off base but I'm betting this new valve is simply plumbed wrong. I think you should revisit the ins and outs of both valves.


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## Chick-N-Picker (May 26, 2021)

Ok. Here is the story in order as best as I can tell it.

It's my great aunts tractor. She is 78. Her son is 60 and uses the tractor.

1. The front end loader was working.
2. He had a leaking hose.
3. He changed the leaking hose.
4. It stopped working correctly immediately acvording to him.
5. I was over doing some work he asked me if I could look at it. (I DID NOT know it had stopped working after the hose change. He left that out)
6. I noticed when he was trying to raise/lower or tilt it was leaking at the hydraulic control valve. Took off the bottom where the springs are. One looked to be messed up and had some chewed up oring or seal. Couldn't be rebuild.
7. Bought a new $1600 control valve. Switched the fitting over and hooked up the lines that I had marked to ensure they went on correctly.
8. It is doing the exact same thing it was before changing the hydraulic control valve to a new one. It wants to work. It might raise up or down (could be smooth or jumpy, it depends) 6 inches but then hits a wall and stops and will not move.

So basically it messed up after a hose change. But the hydraulic control valve needed to be replaced anyway as it was leaky and old BUT it was at least still working it up until that hose was changed. The hose could only go on one way so it's hooked up correctly. I wish I would have known about the hose change before hand but sometimes you learn a piece of information later on like that.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

I find it hard to believe the valve is the problem. Your symptoms still indicate hoses crossed somewhere. Can you describe which hose it was that was replaced? one to the loader cylinders, or from loader valve to tractor? How does the valve get oil from the tractor? Live oil or from a remote valve? Some photos of the hoses, where they come from and where they go could be of help. There are simply too many variables here say with any certainty yet just exactly what's wrong.


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## Modeere318 (Apr 15, 2021)

I would start by taking off the hose the son replaced and see if something is wrong with it since the problem started after he changed this hose.


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## Chick-N-Picker (May 26, 2021)

Yeah, I help my great aunt a lot. I will take some photos and even some video to show y'all what it's doing.

The hydraulic control valve gets it oil from two hoses that come from the back of the tractor. They are larger fittings and one goes to ome side of the control valve and the other one to the other side. The other 4 hoses that run on the control valve use smaller fittings and go in the center. I had the hoses marked to make sure I put them on the same way they came off. 

The hose he changed is up front.
Here is a picture in the mean time of a 2445 QT Loader. I drew a red line of where the hose is that was changed. It was just one hose that ran from side to side at that brace. If you zoom in you can follow and see it better.


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## Chick-N-Picker (May 26, 2021)

@Fedup @HarveyW @Modeere318

Here is some video showing the tractor. It starts with the two hoses at the back. You'll see they go up to the Hydraulic Control Valve. Then there is 4 hoses that come off towards the front of the tractor.

We figured out today, as you'll see, that if he just wiggles the stick up and down and back and forth he is able to get it to raise up, though it takes a while and is jumpy like. It will not lower at all. It just slowly lowers over a number of hours.

If he would say just push the stick the direction to raise. It will not raise and hits a wall so to speak. He can only get it to raise by wiggling it all around like in the video.

Also I included is a picture of the hose (circled) that was changed. It seems to have a smaller neck than the rest but may just be made that way. Hopefully you can see and understand what I mean. They took the old hose when they bought the new one and that's the new one the store gave them.

Click this link to see the video on youtube.
Front End Loader Not Working Correctly


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

No progress yet?


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## Chick-N-Picker (May 26, 2021)

No, I'm not there every day and y'all said seeing some pictures or videos may help out so I just filmed that while I was there yesteday. Is the link showing up right for y'all?

(Update: It didn't slowly lower down over night. It's still up in the air)


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

While the video may show what it's doing, it's not much help with the why. I still suggest you revisit the plumbing. Some photos of the current loader valve, the in and out fittings, hoses, etc might show us something. I also have a few thoughts on the supply/return connections to the tractor, but would need to see more on the valve itself first.


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## Chick-N-Picker (May 26, 2021)

Got plenty of pictures today when at my great aunts. Two lines come from the back of the tractor and up to the control valve.

Then there are 4 smaller lines coming off the control valve and running up towards the front. A couple go into that next box looking thing (not sure what that is). The other two just go straight up to the front. I would think this should be something simple based on the order of events and the way it acting now but I'm not sure.

I also took another of the line that was changed.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Looking at the photo of the valve my take on it is as follows. All the hoses and fittings are mounted to the top of the valve body. There are also in and out ports on the sides of the valve with plugs installed. Yes/no? The pressure in port would be the one with a hose attached with the number 6 marked on it. You have confirmed that when the remote valve is engaged to send oil to the loader that this hose has the oil supply and the return flow is out the other side of the valve and back to tractor? By the looks of the boot and handle, it seems the hose with the green tie strap and the one beneath it should be connected to the bucket cylinders, and the two on the left(in the picture) spool would be for the loader lift cylinders. Assuming one spool is a float spool, then this must be it. We can't see the spool end covers in that photo so we can only guess. On the return side of the valve what does the plug on the side look like? A round plug with a hex insert? That's what the one on the pressure side seems to be but we don't see much of it. Have you removed it at all to see what's under it? The one on the return side. I'm just curious that there might for some reason be a closed center plug there. Most likely not, but who knows? Something is obviously wrong somewhere. 

The other valve (with the solenoid) has never been disturbed, the hoses are as they were when everything worked last, there are two hose coming from it that go nowhere, they are capped/plugged? 

You have followed the hoses from the valve to the cylinders and confirmed that the hoses from the rod end of each loader lift cylinder join together and then lead to one port of one of the valve spools? The hoses from the base end of those cylinders tie together and lead back to the other port on that same valve spool? The solenoid valve complicates things a bit, but if you're sure on the one set of hoses not associated with it, that they both go to one spool, the base ends go together, the rod ends go together, and all that, then at least that circuit should work. If not then we're back to the valve somehow.


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## Chick-N-Picker (May 26, 2021)

I'm not sure all of what you are asking me?

All I know is the son changed a hose up closer towards the bucket (pictured) and then things quit working according to him.

I then seen the old hydraulic valve was leaking and had a messed up spring and looked like a torn O-ring. I marked all the hoses and hooked them up in the same way to the new hydraulic control valve.

But the tractor is still acting the way it is. No change since it messed up. Not sure what you are telling me to do. Should I just start loosening hoses and see if there is pressure build up or something? Sorry that I don't understand.


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## Chick-N-Picker (May 26, 2021)

I will be going to my great aunts tomorrow. Does anybody have any suggestions of anythung to try? If I can't get it tomorrow I'm just going to tell her she will have to call somebody out. Which I hate doing because I know it's going to cost her a lot.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

You may have to ask if the Cousin disconnected more than one hose when he did the repair. Something is a bit off. Anyways, re-read the information given in this post and think about it. I'd loosen the fittings in pairs and see if the leak then matches the function of the joystick. There seems to be something crossed, or there may be air in the system that needs to be bled out. Good luck, hope you get it solved!


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

I have no idea what repair shops in her area charge for house calls, so guessing at cost estimates is difficult at best. That said, it would be worth looking into finding someone, a neighbor, friend, whatever, that knows something about tractors and hydraulics that might be willing to come and look at it for her. Not necessarily FIX the problem, but at least narrow it down to something that can be dealt with. Somehow I doubt that it will take very long at all for someone with some experience to accomplish that. If you have to hire a repair service the bulk of the charge would be the trip fee. Time on site should be minimal.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Just throwing this out there, did anyone check the oil level? Did your cousin top up the oil with the wrong stuff? That'll mess you up!
I can't see very well, but is there a diverter valve to switch between the loader and the three point hitch? Maybe it's not fully engaged? Does the three point hitch jerk around or perhaps quit working?


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

I found a diagram at:





Bush Hog 2445QT Front End Loader Parts 2445QT Front End Loader Basic Hydraulics Parts List and Diagram







store.germanbliss.com





If I understand the pictures right, it is #15 that has been replaced. One new connection is seen at #5 and the other end should be connected to the left cylinder "pull" side, at #4.
What does the new hose connect to?

My first impression of the video was that there is a faulty safety check valve (or mounted backwards) in the system. Does the cylinders stop in the same way if you gently operate the controls, to let a smaller flow through to them?

And please, tell the operator to stop pounding at the controls. Something is wrong, and it will definitely not be better by that behaviour.

*** Edit
Interpreted the pictures wrong, I think I am right now.
***


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## Chick-N-Picker (May 26, 2021)

pogobill said:


> Just throwing this out there, did anyone check the oil level? Did your cousin top up the oil with the wrong stuff? That'll mess you up!
> I can't see very well, but is there a diverter valve to switch between the loader and the three point hitch? Maybe it's not fully engaged? Does the three point hitch jerk around or perhaps quit working?


The 3 point hitch works fine. As far what he poured into it. We poured in5 gallons of hydraulic fluid.

But befor that hard to say what he might have put in it. He might have put water in it....haha.


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## Chick-N-Picker (May 26, 2021)

Hacke said:


> I found a diagram at:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you move the controls gentle it will raise maybe a couple inches and stop. Hits a wall. Him jerking them around is the only way to get it to go up. It will not lower.

I already told him to 100% not do that again. We only did it for video reference. I told him that keeping on doing that could possibly mess things up worse and maybe even ruin the brand new hydraulic control valve.


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

I am not familiar with the 5600, or its equipment, to modern for me, but I got curious when I looked at the gadgets and levers on this one. In a user's manual I found some information that I think can lead to some tips for you.

The tractor has a valve body at the rear. I could not find this equipment for 5600, but for 5610. I guess it is very much like this one:





(5610) - 4 CYL AG TRACTOR 10 SERIES (1/81-12/93) (05F01) - DELUXE REMOTE CONTROL, 1 THRU 4 REMOTES , L/CAB - 5610, 6610, 7610 (81/82) New Holland Agriculture







avspare.com





The idea is that you connect your remote hydraulics to this valve body, and control the hydraulics with the two levers closest to the fender. This tractor has a loader with its own controls, that could have been fed directly from pump. Instead of that, the loader is fed from one of the outlets from this rear mounted valve. This setup is not an ideal solution, you will have parts involved that can cause trouble. To make it work, the lever closest to the fender has to be engaged fully backwards, hence the bungy cord.


Work the shut-off valve lever from opened to closed, a couple of times, and make sure it is left fully open (lever fully down).

Engine off.
Remove the bungy cord.
Work the lever front to back.
Check that the valve spool is fully out when lever is fully back.
Look for play in the lever's linkage.
Start engine.
Hold the lever firmly in the back position, and test the loader controls.

Try with the flow control in different positions.


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