# MF180 Hydraulic help



## Locorotc (Aug 11, 2021)

Good morning all, I was on here quite some time ago asking for help with my TO20 which has since cracked the block and I'm waiting on buying another engine for. Currently I am running into some issues with my Massey Ferguson 180 that I bought. Little back information on the tractor, the thing was leaking fuel like a civ, half the items on the tractor were frozen up and parts were damaged, the lift arms would go up very shakily without weight but wouldn't lift implements unless it was a grader blade. Lots of the pieces have been freed up and replaced but it has to be working for our farm. My buddy and I have been trying to diagnose the following hydraulic issue:
The tractor runs great, we have a case 74L loader on it that lifts lowers and tilts just fine on the remote hydraulics, the pump runs, pto spins, and the lifting arms lift by hand, however the lifting arms do absolutely nothing with the controls, ie no lifting nor lowering. With the selector in constant pumping and lifting we can lift the arms by hand and when you let them go they just drop. We have tried lowering the oil level and taking the side cover off and tried doing it again where we found if you lower the arms by hand to almost the bottom some hydraulic fluid shoots out from somewhere towards the right front side in where the hydraulic pump is. Now we have done the following to the hydraulics: rebuilt the hydraulic pump, put in a brand new hydraulic piston and cylinder, redid the diaphragm on the pressure valve, put fresh oil in, fresh filters/ screens on all hydraulics, pulled a plug out of the hydraulic pump and put in a pressure relief valve and that's all. The auxiliary pump was brand new when we bought the tractor so we haven't touched it because it's working fine. We have had the lift cover off the tractor probably a half dozen times now and we are both really frustrated with what it could be. We don't want to keep throwing parts at it, any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

I won't tell you what to do, but if it were me, by this time I would have eliminated the pressure control stuff. Rebuilding the lift pump was probably needed. At least that's not a waste of time and money. The new lift piston and cylinder? I'd reserve judgement on that without actually seeing what the originals look like. 

The pressure control? That's another matter. Most likely you don't have the corresponding attachments for the lift arms, and there's a good chance you wouldn't have a use for it if you did, so why have all that in the tractor? After this many tries, I would have replaced that with a regular duty standpipe and tried it out that way to see what difference it made.


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## Locorotc (Aug 11, 2021)

I bought the tractor with the loader because we needed it for round bales and numerous other projects around the farm. As to the stand pipe I've already put new o rings on it, made sure we were getting oil to the top cover however we aren't getting any pressure to it. The reason I put in a new cylinder and piston was the old one wasn't moving at all, not sure why, but it wasn't. Now the only part of the lift cover that hasn't been broken into was the pressure control valve assembly. Like I said in the post I have already replaced the diaphragm in the pump control valve. I cannot seem to find a repair kit for the pressure control valve on the top cover only the one on the hydraulic pump itself.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Your choice. If you really have a use or need for pressure control, then go for it. Maybe someone can help you sort out the issue with it, or you may just get lucky.

Again, I would simply remove what you have now and install one of these. I would bet your lift system will go right to work.









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## Locorotc (Aug 11, 2021)

Do you know the difference in the two standpipes? Why does one have that box on it and one just a tube? I'm going to go to the dealer tomorrow to pick up my collars for my auxiliary handles because mine were frozen up and maybe they can shed some light on the differences. Any help from anybody on the pressure control valve would be beneficial still. Thanks in advance. Also thanks Fedup for throwing ideas out there. I'll see if the dealer has one tomorrow and pick one up.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Locorotc said:


> Do you know the difference in the two standpipes? Why does one have that box on it and one just a tube? I'm going to go to the dealer tomorrow to pick up my collars for my auxiliary handles because mine were frozen up and maybe they can shed some light on the differences. Any help from anybody on the pressure control valve would be beneficial still. Thanks in advance. Also thanks Fedup for throwing ideas out there. I'll see if the dealer has one tomorrow and pick one up.


That "box" is what supplies the pressure control system . It ties into the oil supply from the lift pump. My point is this. If you don't need or intend to use pressure control (I'm guessing at this point you probably don't know what it is, let alone have need of it). That somehow is bleeding pressure and flow off and not letting it travel up into the lift system. Get rid of that, install a standard standpipe, and move on. 

Pressure control is a feature designed and installed mainly for European use. I don't think I've ever seen or heard of any used in North America. As I understand, it is used to apply lift pressure on the tongue of trailers and other towed vehicles in order to apply more weight (and traction) on the drive tires. Sort of like draft control, only for items towed with the drawbar. Is that something you need?


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## Locorotc (Aug 11, 2021)

Not that I recall, that wouldn't effect the use of a plow or discs or even anything needing a downward pressure? I'm just trying to make sure before I make an educated jump at one other part for the tractor. I appreciate the help.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

There is no down pressure with any conventional three point. Your tractor doesn't have that now, nor did it ever. 

Unless you plan to tow heavily loaded trailers up steep hills in loose ground, you probably don't need pressure control either.


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

Pressure control was a system that provided a variable amount of pressure for pull type implements. Using a pressure control the operator could transfer weight from the implement and front of the tractor to the rear wheels, increasing traction and safety. Massey had a campaign in the late 60's promoting pressure control. Yes it was promoted in north America and was a really good setup. Unfortunately at the same time four wheel drives started to become affordable and more common. Since pressure control required a special hitch and was not generally accepted or used.
As I understand it was similar to AC's traction booster.
I personally own a 245 that when I bought it had pressure control. The pump was bad and when I repaired it took the pressure control out of the tractor. 
As for the problem that was posted 
The pump is a scotch yoke type pump. Just like and engine it has pistons, inlet valves, outlet valves and a control valve. If The pistons leak, or the intake, or the exhaust valves, the stand pipe, the relief valve, the piston rings of the cylinder, or the O ring that seals the cylinder to housing leaks the system will leak down or not lift a load. If increasing engine speed helps there is a leak somewhere. Since this is a piston pump it should work at slow speed as well as fast.
I would recommend going at www.agcopubs.com and purchasing the service manual if you intend to do the work.

AGCOPubs.com - Technical Manual Store for all AGCOCORP Brands

The manual includes all the adjustments for the hydraulics system including the pressure control setup.
If the hitch raises jerky that indicates a problem with the scotch yoke pump. Either the valves are not seating/sealing or one or more of the pistons are missing the piston rings or the cylinder is scored.
At the top of the stand pipe bolted onto the cover do you have the transfer cap or do you have a combing valve? The valve allows you to combine the output of both pumps, it should have a knob to turn it on or off. BTW the gear (auxiliary) pump has nothing to do with the 3 point hitch.
If the system is operating correctly you do NOT want to keep the pump in constant pumping unless you have the combining valve or have it hooked up for a constant flow.

If you want to eliminate the pressure control it can be done but does get involved as controls and other things need to be changed.

www.agcopartsbooks.com may be a help to find the parts layout


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## Locorotc (Aug 11, 2021)

Busted Tractor said:


> Pressure control was a system that provided a variable amount of pressure for pull type implements. Using a pressure control the operator could transfer weight from the implement and front of the tractor to the rear wheels, increasing traction and safety. Massey had a campaign in the late 60's promoting pressure control. Yes it was promoted in north America and was a really good setup. Unfortunately at the same time four wheel drives started to become affordable and more common. Since pressure control required a special hitch and was not generally accepted or used.
> As I understand it was similar to AC's traction booster.
> I personally own a 245 that when I bought it had pressure control. The pump was bad and when I repaired it took the pressure control out of the tractor.
> As for the problem that was posted
> ...


Good morning, yes sir I had seen the readout about the pressure control system because I myself wasn't familiar with it aside from the ferguson system due to it being on my to20. I have all three of the manuals, I bought them after I bought the tractor to make use of. I understand that if there's a leak anywhere it won't work. The only difficulty I'm having is determining where said leak is because I'm not getting any lift or lower on the controls. I did go to my local MF parts facility today and they said the best person to talk to wasn't in today but will be back Tuesday. I would really love to keep the ferguson as standard as it was when I bought it so I'd love to keep the PCS on it. Busted do you know where I can get the tools required for all the adjustments so it'll run correctly?


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

Locorotc said:


> Good morning, yes sir I had seen the readout about the pressure control system because I myself wasn't familiar with it aside from the ferguson system due to it being on my to20. I have all three of the manuals, I bought them after I bought the tractor to make use of. I understand that if there's a leak anywhere it won't work. The only difficulty I'm having is determining where said leak is because I'm not getting any lift or lower on the controls. I did go to my local MF parts facility today and they said the best person to talk to wasn't in today but will be back Tuesday. I would really love to keep the ferguson as standard as it was when I bought it so I'd love to keep the PCS on it. Busted do you know where I can get the tools required for all the adjustments so it'll run correctly?


I understand trying to keep it original. 
Looking for a leak. Drain the oil to the lowest bolt hole of the right cover, remove the right hand cover, and start tractor carefully position yourself so you can observe the internals maybe even a mirror would work. you can control the pump by moving the levers that come down from the top cover where they connect to the roller. 
As for tools they are very hard to find unless you find an old Massey dealer that was in business in the 60's and 70's. Occasionally they do pop up on ebay.
Without those special tools it is possible to cheat and get by. For gauge at the back of the cover you can use a large wrench abt 3/8 or so thick. Go to a sporting goods or hardware store and pick up a fish scale, as for the dashpot wedge I carefully use a needle nose visegrips just so you don't mark the shaft.
I have never adjusted the pressure control valve but remember it is the system relief valve. When you move the lever out of PC it should lock the arm and valve down, the the outer housing is turned to set the max pressure.

If you think I can help please get back at me.


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## Locorotc (Aug 11, 2021)

Busted Tractor said:


> I understand trying to keep it original.
> Looking for a leak. Drain the oil to the lowest bolt hole of the right cover, remove the right hand cover, and start tractor carefully position yourself so you can observe the internals maybe even a mirror would work. you can control the pump by moving the levers that come down from the top cover where they connect to the roller.
> As for tools they are very hard to find unless you find an old Massey dealer that was in business in the 60's and 70's. Occasionally they do pop up on ebay.
> Without those special tools it is possible to cheat and get by. For gauge at the back of the cover you can use a large wrench abt 3/8 or so thick. Go to a sporting goods or hardware store and pick up a fish scale, as for the dashpot wedge I carefully use a needle nose visegrips just so you don't mark the shaft.
> ...


I will definitely ask for help if I need it, right now I'm going to need to find any leak on the internals. I do have 2 mirrors, one large and one small that I plan on using to help me out. I'll check with my local dealership here in town, they've been around since the 30's, to see if they might have the tools required to do the job. Hell for all I know the entire system could just be out of adjustment and that's why it isn't working properly. I'll get into the manual and read more in depth with the process, take the system apart one more time once I determine whether there's a leak or not then work it from there. Again I appreciate the help from everyone. Ill keep everyone posted with my findings.


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## Locorotc (Aug 11, 2021)

Good evening everyone, these past couple weeks have been grueling trying to figure out the leaks, I tore apart the last thing on the lift cover to reseal, got all the adjustments back into spec according to the manual.... Still nothing, I am going to call my parts dealer first thing in the morning and get the last thing the parts cannon has to fire at the tractor before I'm at an utter and complete loss: the pressure valve on the lift pump. Along with the pressure valve I am also going to order my pto brake disk and kill two birds with one stone while I am in there. I plan on splitting the tractor the day after Christmas so I can put the parts in, so long as they come in before then, but that's all I can think to do before just taking the tractor to the dealer and seeing what they can come up with. I will keep everyone posted with the tractor as soon as I find anything else out or if I come up with a bust. Has anyone ever done the ipto brake disk before? Is it difficult or just time consuming? I was reading about it in the manual but it seems like it's just time consuming not so much difficult.


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## Locorotc (Aug 11, 2021)

Good morning and happy new year to all, I promised I would post back as soon as I had gotten the pressure valve put in and everything adjusted to see if it'll lift. The other day my buddy and I got everything back in and started and still absolutely nothing. -.- I went to my local dealership and talked to the mechanic and ran down everything I had done and he said that it's the hydraulic pump because it isn't building any pressure. He said to leave the side cover off and move the finger to the back of the tractor and the lifting arms should automatically lift, if not then it's the pump. Tried it and absolutely nothing. I ordered a hydraulic pump rebuild kit to rebuild it completely and it'll be at my house on Monday. Once it comes in I'll split the tractor one more time and then rebuild the pump. I'll keep everyone posted once it's rebuilt. Also the brake disk came in for the ipto and we got that new piece on and re o ringed and it's working perfectly now.


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