# International 250A sitting for 10 years



## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

Hello new to the forum and excited to learn more about tractors!!! My friend has an International 250 Series A tractor that has not run in 10 years. 

Is there a website where most people buy parts? Or an online manual would be awesome. I have so many basic questions. 

There is a Bosch Fuel pump that i need to learn more about. I want to bypass the fuel tank and fuel filters at first. Im not sure which fuel line to disconnect. Google searching the Bosch part number brings up nothing. Unless im entering the wrong number. 

Whats the first steps to getting this thing running? 

The Flywheel turns. 
Oil level good. 
Belt looks really bad, plan to remove the belt during the initial start attempts. Will replace with new if the tractor actually runs. 

Thanks for any advice!!


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## dozer966 (Dec 30, 2014)

Welcome to the forum wopachop. Can't help with fuel pump but you can get a set of manuals on eBay for a reasonable price. I would try to get a set that includes the hoe and loader. You never know what you will encounter. 
Good luck and keep us posted as you go and don't be shy ask menny questions. We all love pix. We have a great variety of members that love to help and learn.

Have fun


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

Sounds great thanks!!! Going to head down to the tractor now. The starter was removed for 10 years, and critters decided to live inside the motor with the flywheel. Been using a coat hanger and shop vac to slowly pull all the sticks and nesting material out.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

That looks like a VERY KOOL project..BUT.. NOT KNOWING the fuel system is gonna be a HUGE hurdle. DONT TRY to start it.. There no way in he11 its gonna start after sitting for 10 years.. Pull the injectors and do a compression check FIRST.. 
Post a pic of the inj. pump and injectors and I'll help all I can.. OR you can send them to my email, just put an aol . com after my name.


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

Ive been calling it a fuel pump. So the injector pump. I traced the fuel lines and was planning to remove the Intake line on the injector pump, and install a threaded fitted with a barb. So that i can attach a hose and small container of new diesel. 

I was given a cart of starter parts. This starter fits, and was missing the backing plate and washer. I borrowed those from a different starter and it works, but does it sound OK enough to try?

10 years ago the starter was removed, and nobody remembers why. They might have gotten the new starter, and never installed. Or the starter in the video is the broken starter that was originally removed. 



[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0U4Q1SkJ0o[/ame]


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

Was planning to remove the far left fuel line, that goes down and under to the filters. Will that be OK?


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

While cleaning out the flywheel housing i found this. Could be more pieces i have started using a shop vac and will pour out contents before putting in trash.


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## TraderMark (Nov 15, 2011)

Welcome wopachop.

That last photo looks like it may be the reason the starter was removed. It looks like the bushing in the nose cone of a Delco starter. Some of those Delcos like the 27MT were notorious for breaking the nose cone off. 

I'd try using a flashlight and a small mirror to see if I could see anything down inside the flywheel housing. The rest of the nose cone may very well be down there.

HTH,
Mark


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

OK, that is a Robert Bosch "VA" pump.. parts are almost non existant. IF anything "major" is wrong, your SOL & the pump has to be converted to a totally different type of pump.
Yes, you can remove the fitting to the left.. that's the fuel inlet.. the other on top, is the fuel return, back to the tank..
Remove the lines AT THE INJECTORS, BEFORE trying to start it.. 1 it will SHOW YOU if the pump is pumping fuel and 2, the fuel in there is gonna be NASTEY and you don't want it going inside the injectors.
ON the pump, the top lever is the speed control, to the left is idle, to the right is full speed..
On the bottom lever, to the left is full fuel after starting.. to the right is shut-off w/the button spring collapsed and with the throttle JUST TOUCHING the button spring is starting..
The way I would start it is, disconnect the linkage from the levers.. DO NOT REMOVE THE LEVERS ON THE PUMP!!! Just the linkage FROM THE LEVERS..
Hold the top, all the way to the right, hi speed..
The bottom lever, just touching the button spring..
Remove/loosen all the lines AT the injectors.. and crank the engine and see if its pumping..
You'll probably do more harm than good, trying to start a fuel system that's been sitting for that long, without checking the compression and taking the fuel system apart first..
But its you project, not mine.. I'll help where I can..


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

Wow such amazing information!!! 

I will check the flywheel housing for more parts, and will disconnect the fuel lines and turn the motor over. 

Anyone have comments about the starter Video? Does that sound OK?


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Its impossible to tell.. even if it runs, theres no telling if it has torque to spin the motor.. especially after sitting for 10 years.. its gonna be dry especially if you don't pull the injectors and put some transmission fluid in the cylinders and let it sit a week, inorder to break the carbon from the piston rings..
NO WAY to tell.. just put it in and try it out.. you said the motor turns by hand, right??
Atleast you know "it will" spin.. 
Some parts houses like Advance & Pep boys have starter testers.


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

Darn should i pull the injectors? Not sure if they would need gaskets or some type of part. 

I cleaned up dirt from the injector area, and was about to pull the fuel lines off and run clean diesel directly to the intake of the pump. 

Should i operate the 2 throttle levers while cranking the motor and cleaning out the pump?

Now im worried about cranking the motor before pouring something into the cylinders.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

DO NOT pour diesel in the intake!!!
Its not like a gasoline engine.. it wont do ANYTHING but hydo-lock the engine and possibly bend the rods and valves!!!


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

A diesel "fires" from the heat of compression and the SPRAY of the fuel from the injectors..
Dumping a bucket of diesel fuel down the intake isn't going to get it to fire.. it HAS TO BE a fine mist of fuel.
The thing about injectors is, IF they are stuck.. which I'd bet the farm they are..and the pump, by some act of god, will pump.. the pressure HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE.. and if the inj. are stuck, the pressure builds up in seconds and back flows to the injection pump and it seizes the main pumping unit, the head & rotor.. Which there are none of, left on this planet..
Take the injectors out.. pour some transmission fluid in each cylinder and cover the engine back up for about a week..
In the mean time, send me the injectors and I'll check them.. by the time you get them out and in the mail, my new pop tester should be here.. scheduled delivery on Tuesday..
OR you can spend the money and get them tested at your local injection shop.. BUT YOU GOTTA GET THEM TESTED!!! Their gonna charge you about 100.00 apiece for rebuilt ones or to rebuild yours, IF YOUR LUCKY.. and 35.00 to check them.. just to TELL YOU weather their good or bad..
ME, I'll take them apart and get them working instead of replacing them, seeing your just trying to get this machine started.. There are copper gaskets under the injectors, 1 on the bottom and it looks like 2 on top for the return.. 
The whole thing is your choice, I'm just telling you what you should do and what will happen if you don't.. You might be able to talk to the fuel shop and tell them what your doing and THEY MIGHT just clean them up for you?? They'll wanna sell you a rebuild tho..so be careful.. Its a choice of 400.00 for rebuilt injectors for an engine that you don't even know runs.. or...


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Just don't start/crank it w/ the injectors in..
You could pull them out, put the starter on and SEE IF it will spin the motor..
AND see IF the pump will pump fuel at the injector lines..
IF it doesn't, you know where you gotta start..
As long as the injectors are out, you could borrow a DIESEL compression tester and check to see if its worth spending any money on.. compression should be over 300psi..
While your tracking down a compression tester, dump some transmission fluid down each injector hole to break up the carbon on the piston rings.. COVER THE ENGINE as long as the injectors are out!!!! Water & dirt will get in the holes, then your in bad shape..
Let us know how its going..


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## dozer966 (Dec 30, 2014)

Wopachop, I would follow thepumpguysc advice he is spot on. Good luck


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

Starter is clicking but not turning the motor over. I pulled the fuel lines off the injectors. 

Are decent size jumper cables to 1000amp truck battery enough to turn it over? Cables connect to starter positive and the big metal screw where the negative cable attaches. I shined all the surfaces. 

Will look into places that test starters.


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

When the starter was out in used a crowbar to rotate the flywheel. Didn't move it much. Maybe I was taking up free play, and never moved the pistons. 

At the time the flywheel housing was full of sticks and I didn't want to push it deeper or get stuff caught up.


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks for all the info PumpGuy and everyone. It's not falling on deaf ears. Sounds like pulling the injectors and doing a compression test is best. We know the tractor is old, parts are rare. The money spent towards repairs could go towards something more future friendly.

Here's what I did tonight. Put tubing on each of the injector lines to catch whatever comes out. Tried to jump from an f350 and motor didn't turn over. I think the tractor is in gear. I can't get lever to neutral. Hoped it would free up after bumping starter.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Nice little set-up you got there.. "A" for effort.. but you coulda just taken them off and let them squirt on the engine..
You could take the starter back off and use a screwdriver to try to make a full revolution or get a socket and a long breaker bar or ratchet and go thru the front, on the balancer nut to make sure the engine is free..
Do you have any idea WHY the machine has been sitting out there THAT long?? Did it break down where it sits?
NORMALLY, an engine will get stuck from sitting, by the rings "freezing" to the cylinder walls..{rusting].. SO, if you take out the injectors and pour some trans fluid in there, you might just break it free. Chances are, if you try it dry, you'll end up breaking something..


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

I wanted to run fresh diesel through the pump and make sure each water bottle had close to equal amounts inside. Also check for debris to determine if one of the lines was clogged or dirty. 

Originally went under the tractor to put a big socket on the crank to turn the motor by hand. But i found 3 smaller bolts in a triangle pattern, instead of 1 big bolt. So i used a crowbar on the flywheel instead. Will have to check again for the balancer nut......are we talking about just the main pulley that attaches straight to the crankshaft?

History of Tractor:
My girlfriend's parents bought the tractor in 1990. 
Around 2005 she bought a new house with land, and her parents gave her the tractor. 
Her husband used the tractor off and on, and the story goes it was a pain to start and took forever with starting fluid, messing with battery cables, ect. 

11 years ago her husband passed away, trailer sits where he left it. 
10 years ago her father (who used to own the tractor) came over and took out the starter.

1 year ago her father brings over 2 complete starters, and a small cart full of starter parts. Says he thinks one of the starters works, and i need to test them. 

Present time- Of the 2 complete used starters, only 1 actually fits the bolt patterns, but the backing plate was missing. So i borrowed the plate from the other starter, used jumper cables to give the starter 12v and it works, but sounds pretty rough. (posted video i this thread)


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

I can't get this lever to neutral. 
Also, do I want that foot petal in the Up or Down position?

Thanks


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

This pic shows the foot lever better.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Sorry but I cant help w/ the pedals..
The crankshaft balancer may or may not have a center bolt..


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

No center bolt I see 3 smaller bolts. Might try lightly turning one. 

Looking at the injectors numbers 1 and 3 go into the top port of the pump. Injectors 2 and 4 into the lower ports. 

The flare fittings on 1 and 3 that are fed by the top port are noticeably more corroded.


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

Picture shows injector 3 and 4. Number 3 doesn't look as clean. 

If we decide to pull out the injectors do I remove the 2 nuts on either side? Or only pull off the top portion of the injector?


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

I think there are starter alignment issues. Was able to rotate the flywheel 1 rotation with a crowbar. Bad news is the flywheel is ground down in spots. 

I wonder if currently the mesh is too tight, and the starter gear isn't able to pop out fully. I put grease on the starter gear but couldn't tell so I will try again. 

Do you shim these starters? I've tried installing the starter putting pressure towards being "loose mesh" while snuggling the 3 bolts. Didn't help.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Glad you gotter to spin.. 
Remove the 2 nuts, NOT the top portion, LEAVE THAT ALONE..
You'll probably have to rock them back and forth before they'll come out.. use an open end wrench on the flat portion of the injector & twist back & forth..
Cant help w/ the starter..


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

Wait a minute.......maybe the starter is not getting enough amps from being jump started? There is no battery on the tractor itself. 

Hope that wasnt a silly mistake. I might borrow a battery from the truck and try, unless someone replies and says its not going to matter. 

I removed the started. Its been off and on like 5 times today. Did another grease test, i dont think the starter gear is engaging properly. It looks like it barely goes in like 1-2mm onto the flywheel. 

Maybe thats where it needs more amps, and just freezes? Or maybe the alignment of the starter gear is off.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

you could have corrosion on the shift shaft where this fits the transmission housing, or the selector fork slide could have the same.

the starter needs a pull down and service, a clean up of the commutators and brushes and the bushings lubed, otherwise seemed to be running ok.

The lower pedal is the diff lock pedal and needs to be in the upright position for travelling.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

wopachop said:


> I think there are starter alignment issues. Was able to rotate the flywheel 1 rotation with a crowbar. Bad news is the flywheel is ground down in spots.
> 
> I wonder if currently the mesh is too tight, and the starter gear isn't able to pop out fully. I put grease on the starter gear but couldn't tell so I will try again.
> 
> Do you shim these starters? I've tried installing the starter putting pressure towards being "loose mesh" while snuggling the 3 bolts. Didn't help.


measure from the engine side of the ring gear to the outside face of the bell housing where the starter bolts to, wind out the Bendix drive and measure from the bushing side of the Bendix gear to the face of the starter motor mounting and compare the measurements.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

I just had another look at your starter video and the Bendix drive is stuck, this drive has to shoot the gear out until nearly touching the bushing housing, otherwise you wont get a mesh up with the ring gear


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## TraderMark (Nov 15, 2011)

wopachop,
You need to make sure the starter you're trying to use has the correct number of teeth. Not all starter drives (Bendix) are the same. Some wear on the flywheel ring gear is normal. Believe it or not, an engine has a "natural resting spot" meaning that when you shut it down it will stop with the flywheel in the same position nearly every time. That's why there's wear on one spot of the ring gear. Some people even re-install the old ring gear in a new position on the flywheel when that one spot gets too worn.

Also, you are correct about the amperage. There is NO WAY you're getting enough amperage to that starter to turn that engine using only jumper cables unless you have some REALLY stout jumper cables. Get a good group 31A battery if it will fit inside the battery box, then use the jumper cables to get that new battery charged while you're turning the engine over.

Mark


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi there thanks Fred. Need to absorb all that. 

Turns out I'm a dummy. Installed battery on the tractor and it's turning over!!!! Didn't get it to start yet. 

The positive battery terminal puts out smoke though. It's a 1000 cranking amp battery from a pickup truck. I'm a little worried as I have spilled diesel around the motor. 

The starter tab that connects the silinoid to the motor also smokes after cranking motor for 5 seconds.


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## wopachop (Feb 7, 2017)

Didn't see you message at first mark. 

For now can I use the pickup truck battery? Im also running the jumper cables to a running truck to hopefully help out. I can tell the battery struggles though.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Don't worry about alittle diesel fuel on the engine.. its not like gasoline.
You can hold a lighter or match to it and it wont flash on you like gas..


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## TraderMark (Nov 15, 2011)

Sure wopachop,
you can use nearly any high CCA 12v battery.
I only mentioned the group 31A because it has somewhere around 1000 CCA and it's large enough physically that you can crank an engine quite a few times before it goes dead. My local NAPA has the 31A batteries on sale for <$100 every couple months.

Mark


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Whats going on w/ your project?? You left us hangin'..
If the pump wont pump, you have to time it before removing it.. 
Let me know if you need help.


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