# Mower engine Hard to turn by hand at compression stroke.



## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

Hello fancy farmers and owners of mowing things : )

I've been a bit shy on asking this question on an annoying issue I've been having for over a year.. But I finally got the courage so here goes : 

Anybody knows why an engine might be so hard to turn by hand if you replaced the cam shaft with a working compression release and then is still hard to turn ?

My mower (LT1018 Cub Cadet) had been giving me a hard time to turn over for about a year and a half now.. 
Was told by watching videos that it was the compression release on the cam - that it must be broke and needs to be replaced to release the compression to start.
So I did that, Opened the well removed the cam and saw that the compression release was still good including the bump and flue out properly when spun.
Put in the new can anyway, sealed it up etc. 
And it still was hard to turn over with a full battery charge and all.

Only way I am able to start it is by covering the air intake hole at the air filter to stop air intake and then it starts. Then I put the air cover back on and start riding.
after the engine is warm 20 minutes lets say, and I stop the engine then restart the engine after a short break lets say, turn the key and it starts right up. No problem.

So I can't figure that out - why it struggles to pass that compression stroke and won't unless I cover the air intake momentarily. then it starts.

Dint wanna bother you good people with this but then again here I am : ( When I do go to start the engine volts drop to roughly 9 volts, I assume that's normal. And if not gonna check my wires for resistances.. any ideas are appreciated. thanks


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Hello GreenerDays,
Does your engine have a fuel shutoff valve in the carburetor inlet? I'm wondering if you are getting raw gas into the cylinder, basically hydro locking the engine till the compression release disposes of it?


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

BigT said:


> Hello GreenerDays,
> Does your engine have a fuel shutoff valve in the carburetor inlet? I'm wondering if you are getting raw gas into the cylinder, basically hydro locking the engine till the compression release disposes of it?


good point. Yes it has a carb solenoid to stop fuel at shut off but tested and works. Carb is a 6 mo. old knock off but good carb. Original carb worked but the "fuel shut-off solenoid" was slow to respond even after lubing so I just got a new carb at the same cost.

And I forgot to mention in my post that valve lash can also prevent a smooth turnover making it hard to start and last time I checked I believe I set it to 4000 and 6000 for exhaust. 
Gonna check it again in case they slipped. 

Just wondering if besides the compression release on the cam, valve lash gap and a good battery, if anything else can be a culprit in having that compression hard to start problem. 
What am I missing. thanks Big T


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## BinVa (Sep 21, 2020)

A weak/worn starter will have trouble turning past the compression stroke. You also mentioned you are only getting 9v to the starter...it should be getting the full 12v(+) of battery voltage through the solenoid. B.


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

I am getting 12V to the starter.. It drops to about 8-9V when it's trying to turn it at compression. So not sure if that drop when it's trying so hard is normal. 
But you gave me the idea that I should maybe try another starter to rule out a weak starter.. 
Still super hard to turn by hand, harder than it should be.. gonna double check valve lash today.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

I would be inclined to load test the battery, 11 volts under load is usually the minimum, 8/9 volts is pushing it a bit, how old is the battery??, try a good jumper battery and see it the starting improves, you have to be right on with the valve clearances too, otherwise the valve lifter wont work.

Just read your other post on the solenoid, so the battery is new, try another starter then, but have the battery load tested.


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

Hi FredM, yes the battery is new, about 2 months old. a 450 CCA from Autozone. And the only reason I got the new battery is because my last was about 4 years old was also 450 CCA and was also dropping to 8 to 9V when trying to crank over. The guy at Autozone said that's about normal but I didn't believe it so I go the new battery and got the same results so tested there.. my old battery was still 100% healthy according to their tester.

I did have to jump it today with heavy duty jumper, still struggled to crank at compression until I cover the air intake (a hack to start an engine with a blown compression release) and then it started as I've been doing the last few months. 
Never thought of checking the valve gap because every time I did they were always tight at ~ 4000 and 6000.. 

So I saw a few videos last night and think I'm gonna try 3000 each. its a Briggs ESL 18.5HP in good shape. I believe the specs said 3 and 5000.. not sure it's been a while. 
Hard to believe that little of a gap difference might be the problem of why the compression is so hard.

Just want to hear from someone that yes, that a hard compression stroke can only come from those 2 things.. Am I missing something ?


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## johnthebaptist431 (Nov 5, 2021)

Two things I would check are your valve clearance... Should be at .004 on each, too much more than that, your decompressive won't bump the valve. Also ensure you have a good ground, those units were notorious for that.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

GreenerDays said:


> Hi FredM, yes the battery is new, about 2 months old. a 450 CCA from Autozone. And the only reason I got the new battery is because my last was about 4 years old was also 450 CCA and was also dropping to 8 to 9V when trying to crank over. The guy at Autozone said that's about normal but I didn't believe it so I go the new battery and got the same results so tested there.. my old battery was still 100% healthy according to their tester.
> 
> I did have to jump it today with heavy duty jumper, still struggled to crank at compression until I cover the air intake (a hack to start an engine with a blown compression release) and then it started as I've been doing the last few months.
> Never thought of checking the valve gap because every time I did they were always tight at ~ 4000 and 6000..
> ...


Crank thrust is critical on a Briggs Intek, when it exceeds the wear limit, that's when they are notorious for throwing rods. It sounds like your crank thrust is set to tight...... Briggs uses the pan gasket to set the crank end thrust on an Intek. The *Standard* pan gasket (Part # 697110) is .015" thick (they make the same pan gasket in thicker dimensions also). There's also a thrust washer available to help set the crankshaft end thrust. Below is the excerpt from the Intek Service Manual as how to set the crank thrust. To tight and it's slow to turn over, to loose and it will throw a rod. Overlook/Ignore this crank set up process and you're inviting trouble... Ask me how I know

*Briggs Service Manual #276781, Page 139 *

_*When crankcase cover or sump is installed with *_
*a standard gasket, end play should match values 
listed in Section 12 - Engine Specifications (**.02-.023**).
If end play is less than specified, remove cover 
or sump and install an additional gasket. Do not 
use more than two gaskets (This where the thicker available gaskets come into play). If end play is more than specified, remove cover or sump and install a shim per the Illustrated *
_*Parts List...*_


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

johnthebaptist431 said:


> Two things I would check are your valve clearance... Should be at .004 on each, too much more than that, your decompressive won't bump the valve. Also ensure you have a good ground, those units were notorious for that.


Thank you John, I did check valve clearance again, thats why it took me an extra day to get back. Yeah it was dead on at 4000 each. I was hoping that was the problem. And I have a good solid to scraped metal ground. Didn't get around to recheck wire ohms yet just to make sure I'm getting 12V where I'm suppose to. 

I've scratched my head so much I wore a spot.


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

Bob Driver said:


> Crank thrust is critical on a Briggs Intek, when it exceeds the wear limit, that's when they are notorious for throwing rods. It sounds like your crank thrust is set to tight...... Briggs uses the pan gasket to set the crank end thrust on an Intek. The *Standard* pan gasket (Part # 697110) is .015" thick (they make the same pan gasket in thicker dimensions also). There's also a thrust washer available to help set the crankshaft end thrust. Below is the excerpt from the Intek Service Manual as how to set the crank thrust. To tight and it's slow to turn over, to loose and it will throw a rod. Overlook/Ignore this crank set up process and you're inviting trouble... Ask me how I know
> 
> *Briggs Service Manual #276781, Page 139 *
> 
> ...


Oh my Lord the Doctor is in, speaking in Languages I never heard of and now I'm lost forever.. Somebody save me : )
just kidding Mr. Driver, I appreciate the drive by, and only one person will get hurt and that is me trying to figure the hi-tech lingo you use on me.. I appreciate the helping hand, Honestly appreciate. 
The mower gods heard my cry for help and then came you : ) Bob, just joshing with ya because you've been a big help to me in the past !

So I downloaded the manual just now per your suggestion.. yes I see on page 139 the same comment as above..
So I will read this tomorrow and try to digest it properly. So in laymen's terms if it's too tight I might need to add a shim washer to alleviate pressure to spec.. ? Not sure yet.. 
And I guess you know because it happened to you.. once only right ? 

So if I remove the spark plug, even free it of the drive belt and valve clearance it should spin freely, which I guess it will and only get tight when its facing compression.
When I spin it slow I hear the air struggling to escape through the breather, wondered if that was the problem.. I don't think so - maybe ?
Even thought was maybe a bent crank shaft but not because it only slows at compression. 

I'm going to really know what to do when I open her up or else I'll be using clippers on the grass.
Input appreciated, thank you

So what was the issue you faced with this ?


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

Should mention, once started and warms up the problem goes away and starts with a simple key turn if warm.


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

Is it possible the flywheel key is damaged?
That happens on mowers sometimes when it hits something, key gets bent which throws timing off. It may still run but not correctly. Just a thought.

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

fuddy1952 said:


> Is it possible the flywheel key is damaged?
> That happens on mowers sometimes when it hits something, key gets bent which throws timing off. It may still run but not correctly. Just a thought.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


Hello Fuddy, yes thought this sometime ago, checked it, was spot on.. but will check it again.
Actually, with this model 31Q777-0305-E1 Briggs ESL 18.5HP, Briggs recommended a steel key that would not sheer because too many ppl were complaining about the sheering and put out a bulletin to use a stainless steel key. I have an aluminum in mine and has not sheered by giving it an extra 10 lb recommended torque. think is 240..


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

Just wanted to give a quick update on my mower issue with the hard to turn over at compression stroke problem.

So I didn't open it up to add a washer or shim with the manual that Mr. Driver supplied because it wasn't the exact model albeit nay be similar.
So I instead decided to double check the basics.. during this, the solenoid stopped working, was clicking but no output to the starter, Replaced it.
Issue remained the same.

The I remember thinking maybe it's the breather on top of the motor that hides half way under the flywheel. Because the air sounded weezee coming out of there at the compression stroke.
And if I'm correct - That is where the air escapes from to relieve the compression right ? - Can anybody confirm that for me please ? 

So I had access to 1 of the 2 screws that hold it down. loosened that screw about 3 turns to get about 2mm of jiggle room to see if that would alleviate the weez.
Went to start the engine, still struggled at compression but less of a struggle. Turned it again covering the air intake with my hand as I have been starting it, and it started !!! easier but still a struggle at the compression hump.
So that is an improvement over covering intake and it not getting a full turn. Now it does go over that hump and starts.. but again still have to cover the intake with my hand.

Anyone knows if a bad, stuck stiff breather might effect compression relief? .. I mean it's basically like a plastic one way reed inside right ?
thanks


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

A question!!, when you adjust the valve lash, do you roll the flywheel around to top dead center on compression stroke, remove the spark plug and insert a pencil or something soft into the plug hole and then rotate the flywheel until the piston goes down approximately 1/4" after top dead center before checking the clearances, if you are not doing this, then the lifter wont work, at top dead center the cam follower will be sitting on the lifter and the adjustment will be ineffective for the lifter to work.

If you are setting the valves correctly, then the starter motor could be poling from worn bushes, and this will cause high current draw, you can check the top bush with the starter on the engine by holding onto the bendix drive and see how much free play the top bush has by rocking, the top bush will have more wear because of load, the bottom bush would have to be checked with the starter apart.

The fact you are holding your hand over the air intake is in effect choking the carby and this will increase the fuel load on starting.

The purpose of the breather is to create a vacuum in the crankcase to control oil burning, the breather valve should be closed on compression and exhaust stroke and open on power and intake strokes.


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

Hello Fred, First I want to thank you for this very clear explanation of properly setting valve clearance. I will try this tomorrow exactly how you explained. Because I have usually tried that method with some confusion on my part so even as of yesterday I quickly got on YouTube to double check a method in case I was doing it wrong, saw Taryl and donyboy both say just make sure one is open and the other closed, set it to 4000 each and your done. I did that to avoid my confusion. But tomorrow I will try exactly how you said. the 1/4 inch in what direction is what confused me in the past. Thanks for that. 
I hope that does it or make it better. But again at compression it is so tight I have to stand over it and push with both hands to pass compression. with a sloppy or tight lash. 

I also switched the starter with another used starter I had, so maybe that did it. And I will test the starter as best I could the way you mentioned. ! Results to follow.
Thanks for the explanation on the breather too ! So does the compressed air escape through the breather? For some reason I'm guessing those don't go bad often unless they split, tare or clog?
Where does the air escape through? Breather no ?


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

GreenerDays said:


> But again at compression it is so tight I have to stand over it and push with both hands to pass compression. with a sloppy or tight lash.


Tell me how tight the engine is to roll over when you rotate the flywheel one full turn "after TDC compression stroke", --- _bring to compression TDC and then roll the flywheel one full turn so the valves are in overlap_, rock the flywheel backwards and forwards at this position checking if the engine is still tight when you do this.

The breather cover should have a rubber hose that usually hooks into the inlet manifold or air cleaner housing.


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

The flywheel turns smooth until the uphill compression stroke then hard at compression then smooth then a little hard at what I assume is the power or exhaust stroke. If I'm answering the question correctly.
And yes the breather has its hose attached connecting to the air filter housing..
When it's compressing by hand I hear that air trying to escape, would you know if that is through the breather? Sounds like it's coming through the breather.. someone else said no but would explain further.. air squeezing past the cylinder ring when compression gas maybe ? Me over thinking it maybe..


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Ok then!!, remove the spark plug and rotate the flywheel by hand 3 or 4 full rotations, we need to find out if there is a bind internally, I don't want you to use the starter, use your hands and feel for tightness.


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

FredM said:


> Ok then!!, remove the spark plug and rotate the flywheel by hand 3 or 4 full rotations, we need to find out if there is a bind internally, I don't want you to use the starter, use your hands and feel for tightness.


Fred, I did remove the spark plug and turned the flywheel by hand a few times forward and back and forth,. Mostly using one hand slightly harder at compression then forward. That operation felt normal and not overly tight or rubbing or stuck, felt normal. So I don't think anything internal is blocking it.

Then I did proceed with your detailed procedure for proper valve gap. TDC then 1/4 past. The intake was a little tight, set intake at 4000st, exhaust and 6k. 
And I now remember why I would get confused with this procedure because with the spark plug removed the resistance would confuse me as to which was the compression stroke. So not when they are tight against the valve but when they are loose.

Was slightly better to start but still had to cover the intake with my hand to get a start. But it did rotate 2 times before stopping where before the new valve adjustment it stopped at about a quarter turn. So again an improvement but still need to cover the intake to get a start.

Then I thought:
When I change the cam last winter, I looked at the tappets and they looked nice and flat, no wear so I didn't change them as they were included in the kit.
Now I'm thinking maybe I should have changed them. Maybe they have internal wear where the rods push the tappets.... ?


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Without seeing or hearing your problem, there is not much more I can help you with, as a last resort, couple your jumper leads to the battery, positive to positive battery post, (leave battery cable connected) and connect the other end of the jumper to the battery cable connection on the solenoid, and connect the black lead to negative terminal on battery and the other end to a good earth on the engine, start the engine, does this make any difference to the start?.


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

Well Fred, I tried your suggestion with the jumper and .. with the jumper it turned it over without me blocking the air intake, just a turn of the key.
So with you suggesting checking lash and the jumper is the best result yet. 

With my battery 3 months old, a Autozone Duralast Gold 350 CCA (I said it was 450 but it's 350) fully charged, turn the key and the meter read a drop to 9-7V.. mostly 7V
Adding the jumper (which is a big heavy jumper) turn key dropped to 10-9V. mostly 10V.

So in leaving it as is.. sounds like I should return that battery and look for a stronger one as a quick fix.. they sure do jump in price a bit after 350 CCA .. ($70) to 500 CCA's for about $149.
I asked mechanics I know at the local mower shop and as their answer to most all non commercial accts. is "get rid of it and get a new one". won't go further into those details but you can imagine.
So I think I'll keep it like this.. shop for a better battery without such a drop and hope for the best. Until I "get rid of it and get a new one" : /
Thank you Fred and all involved !


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

That suggestion was to check your original battery cables for voltage drop from corrosion buildup inside the cables near the connections, is there any corrosion that you can see, the cable has only to have 3 or 4 strands eat through and this will give you a power loss like you are having, I'd check the cables before outlaying for a new battery.

I have a 22HP Briggs V twin on my Dixon and the battery for that is only 450CCA, I feel that the battery you have should do the job, so do check those cables.

Thank you for following up and I am happy that I could help.


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

Ok, Then I'm gonna switch them out with new wire. Couldn't hurt, they look in good shape but it is at least 10 years old so it can't hurt. Will report back with the findings. Thanks again Fred.


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

Couple stupid but simple things:
Flywheel key is OK (hasn't jumped timing)?
Cam installed properly (not a tooth off)?

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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Inspect the cables first, also look at where the cable goes into the connections and lugs, even though there will be insulation at the ends, you should be able to pickup corrosion if there is any there.

Should you replace, then go heavier with the cable size, go up a size, "electricity is like water, the larger the pipe or hose the more it will flow, this works the same for electricity, it is not the volts, but the amperage that is needed at start", that quote is from a TAFE instructor from back in the 70's and I haven't forgotten it .


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

fuddy1952 said:


> Couple stupid but simple things:
> Flywheel key is OK (hasn't jumped timing)?
> Cam installed properly (not a tooth off)?
> 
> Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


Not stupid things because sometimes a key can be sheared but only off by an 1/8" and still run, maybe rough to start but I don't think that would cause a heavy compression stroke, enough to bogg down and stop. Over the summer I did check it - twice and it was fine.. think the torque was 150.. 10 lbs. more that it calls for and that helps because before that extra added torque I did split 2 keys.. that 10 extra pounds holds it down nicely. 
And yes the new cam is spot on.. upon install turning it back and forth absolutely shows if your spot on or not.. but I should of swapped the tappets too... could be that. thank you Fuddy. appreciated.


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

FredM said:


> Should you replace, then go heavier with the cable size, go up a size, "electricity is like water, the larger the pipe or hose the more it will flow, this works the same for electricity, it is not the volts, but the amperage that is needed at start", that quote is from a TAFE instructor from back in the 70's and I haven't forgotten it .


yeah a a spot of green corrosion at the end wire piece meeting at the started.. but it looked pretty so I left it .. haha. Looked minor but because of your recommendation Fred of switching out the wires, I went to Home Depot and got some 8 Gauge, 60 Amp wire to rewire from the battery to the solenoid to the starter and batt. ground to metal. 
Couldn't hurt I mean the machine is about 20 years old, the red sheathing on the positive is discolored from all those years so a switch would be nice.. was about 10.00 for 6 feet of red and black wire and it's actually relaxing to do something like that.
But I did want a thicker wire like 6 gauge but he said it's goo enough for a car a 60 amps. so sure..

Last night I did try on my battery without the jumper to turn it over .. it did one out of 4 times without covering the intake and I felt the pos. wire going to the solenoid and it was super hot where it burned my hand and thought something was gonna catch fire. The solenoid even stopped working and thought I burned that out. So I did want that thicker wire. But the Home depot guy said its not the thickness of the wire but how many amps they hold. So I said ok. 

Somewhere, someday I want to pick up some engine (preferably a v twin) with a hole in the side or something that I can repair hopefully and keep as a spare. I guess this is about my 6th riding mower over 20 years or so and vowed this cadet would be my last. I like it so I don't mind trying to keep it going for years.. but I guess a new one would be nice on day.. But no time soon, I like the tinkering too much. After all what's a guy suppose to do ! ..


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

GreenerDays said:


> Last night I did try on my battery without the jumper to turn it over .. it did one out of 4 times without covering the intake and I felt the pos. wire going to the solenoid and it was super hot where it burned my hand and thought something was gonna catch fire. The solenoid even stopped working and thought I burned that out. So I did want that thicker wire. But the Home depot guy said its not the thickness of the wire but how many amps they hold. So I said ok.
> 
> Somewhere, someday I want to pick up some engine (preferably a v twin) with a hole in the side or something that I can repair hopefully and keep as a spare. I guess this is about my 6th riding mower over 20 years or so and vowed this cadet would be my last. I like it so I don't mind trying to keep it going for years.. but I guess a new one would be nice on day.. But no time soon, I like the tinkering too much. After all what's a guy suppose to do ! ..


"Did you think to feel the starter motor also"?, did you buy battery cable or house cable?".

Be careful with buying an engine with a hole in the side, most times the con rod has broken and caused the hole and most times the big end section of the rod will smash the internals like the cam shaft and followers, and partly breakout the bottom of the cylinder, and of course the bigend journals on the crank will be damaged also.

If you got hold of a complete engine like this for a good price, free is better, you could buy a short engine and transfer all of the necessary components from the damaged engine to the short engine, service the heads and the engine would be good to go.


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

No I didn't feel the starter I was standing on the other side of it and the shock of feeling the wires so super hot surprised me so much (i spelled surprize and it corrected me with the "s", what happened to all the words with "z" in them, they've been replaced) 
The new wire is House wire I assume about half the thickness of usual battery cables. I wasn't crazy about that, might give off that same heat. Took his word for it, told him it was for a mower. Said he had the same.

yeah I would only buy at a minimal cost a blown motor where it threw a rod or locked up. I've seen where a big hole or holes in the sump damaged everything - connecting rod, bent cam, cracked seat for the cam, cylinder damage, journal damage - not worth it.
My local mower shop has a graveyard of such items with bent shafts, big holes in them, worn cylinders, etc. One of the mechanics there takes them to metal recycling about once every 2 months and makes a few hundred off the metal. He's let me buy some blowers, generators etc. of him for a few dollars and I've fixed them but only of very selective choices. But usually he's like a Pitbull and will rip my arm off if I stair at them. lol. Love to tinker but what you guys go through with your tractors is way above and a whole nother world. kudos to you guys, this is Childs play in comparison.


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

Wires should never be hot or even barely warm. That means too small gauge/too much resistance. 
Much better to go larger gauge than required than too small. 
I just replaced cables on an 14hp Economy tractor using 2 gauge, battery to solenoid, solenoid to starter, battery negative to frame (shiny ground w/ dielectric grease).
The cranking speed is MUCH faster now.

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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

fuddy1952 said:


> Wires should never be hot or even barely warm. That means too small gauge/too much resistance.
> Much better to go larger gauge than required than too small.
> I just replaced cables on an 14hp Economy tractor using 2 gauge, battery to solenoid, solenoid to starter, battery negative to frame (shiny ground w/ dielectric grease).
> The cranking speed is MUCH faster now.
> ...


yeah Fuddy, I'm glad you said this because that 8 gauge I purchase still wasn't sitting right with me so after hearing you say this, I'm going to return it right now. 
Sometimes those clerks don't know enough of what they're talking about. He said he used that in his car for battery, That was a bit eye popping, he was old enough where I figured he had some experience with things but my gut said no. I appreciate you saying this.. headed back to the store now..


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

Well I'll be dam. and I should be a bit embarrassed.. after changing out my wires as Fuddy and Fred's suggested. IT Worked !!!!

Got 4 gauge wire and replaced the hot mess stock wire plus my not so handy work wire. Turned the key voltage only dropped to 10-9V and although a slight delay, started right up with no having to block the air intake. Just turned the key as normal. lowest drop I had after turning it over 3 times within a few minutes was 8.9V.. so what a relief !!! thank you Fuddy and Fred for the wire check suggestion. Again that seems to do it. And after you see the photos you might wonder if there was any doubt. didn't really pay attention of the condition of the wires my because they where hidden or the damage was on the bottom side of the wire.. take a look. 









































pretty bad damage, must have created extra resistance. and one wire shows the size difference of the stock size wire and the 4 gauge. I made a connection on the ground a few years back cause it was too short to reach the battery - not pretty.. notice the melt insulating and holes.. very bad. I should have paid more attention to the. Thanks again !!

Sie note: when I went to get the new wire at home depot, I said let me grab one of those recycled batteries that ppl. drop off as a damaged battery so I can use it for testing things.. grabbed a car battery, figured I'd get 10v's going out of it.. to my surprise. happened to be a good battery at 12Vs.. a good battery.. a little trade off for having to wait a half hour for someone to cut wire for me.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Hope you are on your way now and some good come out of this, remember the larger the cable, the more current will flow, and the initial current draw is when the starter first takes the load and starts the engine turning, hence the need for a larger cable for the current to flow.


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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

yeah Fred this was quite the lesson. And to think I've been living with this for a year. After a cam switch, battery, starter check but never a wire check. And yes, I'll keep it in my head, the bigger the river the more it can flow. Those stock wires are fairly thin in comparison. The first set of wires I bought the other day said: 6 AMG.. 600 volts I believe. and the 4 gauge thicker wire said: 4 gauge 60 volts. But the strands look similar but the 4 gauge twice the thickness.. I guess someone knows what that means. 
But yeah, quite the rookie mistake and if I could I'd go back. I know where to start from.
Great lesson. Thanks again to all involved. I've been starting it every hour and it's starting key only. think I pinched myself at least twice. Still a hard compression but I'll live with that. thank you !


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

You're welcome Greener, glad you fixed it and posted results since it helps others.

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## GreenerDays (Apr 3, 2020)

Thanks Fuddy ! Next time I won't be as shy : ) .. where there's a wire there's a way !


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