# Synthetic Lubricants Discussion a thread without an end!!



## Archdean

*Synthetic Lubricants Discussion, a thread without an end!!*

This discussion has being ongoing for years!

1. Post your experiences here with or without passion. Let the reader decide!
2. Cost analysis for your particular situation!
3. Are you convinced or just caught up in the magic euphoria?
4. Have you seen the wear on internal engine components gear trains and etc. lubricated with Synthetics compared to like components that were lubricated with Dino counterparts with your own eyes or just echoing advertising?

To start the discussion this is a quote from a scientific publication!

"Synthetic oil will do nothing whatsoever to lessen auto
emissions, as compared to a high quality standard motor oil.
In any properly working motor, the oil never gets anywhere
near the combustion process, and it is combustion that
creates the emissions.

The main advantage of synthetic oil is that it is slower to
break down than normal oil, and therefore the time between
oil changes can be longer. Also, some of the chemical
breakdown that oils suffer from, is not the oil itself
breaking down, but their additives such as "viscosity index
improvers" degrading. Synthetic oils need less of these
additives, so they suffer less from their breakdown.

How often should you change the oil and filter if one uses
synthetic oil? You ALWAYS change according to the vehicle
manufacturer's recommendations in the owners manual. Since
each manufacturer has specific instructions, I cannot give
you a general answer. As a rule of thumb, it is often
considered safe to extend the oil change interval by 50% with
synthetic oil, but again, you do what the vehicle
manufacturers says to do!

As for the filter, it should be changed at the same interval
as when normal oil is used. The filter's job is to filter out
abrasive particles that mainly result from the combustion
process. The type of oil has little to do with the formation
of this particulate matter, so switching to a synthetic oil
will not do anything much to reduce amount of particulates
that the filter has to filter out.

Now, is synthetic oil worth it? Perhaps. Synthetic oils do
not protect the engine better than normal oils. They just
last longer. So if, for example, a synthetic oil lasted 50%
longer than a high quality normal oil, and cost only 30% more,
then I would say it would be worth it in that case. However,
often, this kind of analysis shows synthetic oil cost more in
the long run."

As always I'm eager to here what you fellows think!!

:cowboy:


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## mark777

I use synthetics in my car and truck (Mobil 1) and use dino in the tractors. My reasoning for synthetics are fear of dry start ups and engine wear. I'm less concerned about emissions then long term wear...And the dino in the tractors is because I don't want synthetic oil to clean away too much or damage older seals. So my vote is "Yes, in some things".

Mark


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## HarryG

I use synthetic in whatever I buy new if possible. If its a used piece of equipment, I do as mark 777 does and use conventional (dino) oil. I do have an ATV and use conventional (dino) in that as it has a fluid clutch and they recommend conventional oil.
I guess its a matter of choice.


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## Archdean

*An indepth study!!*

Just in case you really want to impress your friends and neighbors!!
:cowboy: 


Here


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## Eddinberry

I run the Synthetics in the Jeep, Both Motorcycles, and Lawnmower.

I like the constant viscosity advantages in the synthetics, and the cold start issue advantages in the Jeep.

I change the oil at 4,000 miles instead of 3,000.

In the Bikes, because the Transmission and engine share the oil as a lube, the synthetics have distinct advantages.

Better shifting is one of them and you can feel it.

Normally Dino oil starts to break down in the bikes at around 1,500 miles and shifting starts getting a bit "Notchy".

With synthetic (Motul or Mobil-1 bike oil) oil the shifting stays butter smooth for 2,000 miles when I change the stuff regardless if it is early or not.

The stuff drained from the bikes goes into the lawn Mower.
18hp Brigs Gold from Yard man and is run untill the next change from the bikes.

I ain't the biggest fan of that Mower, so no. I have no guilt.


I run Rotella in the Tractors and harvester.
It gets changed every Spring,Fall, and 150 hours. Regardless.

Yeah it's an early schedule, but it may be weeks between use of one of the Tractors, and the Harvester gets used for 4 weeks out of the year then stored.

I never store with used oil in the crankcase.
All those acids from combustion ain't good for things.

Why not synthetic on the farm gear?

Cost.
I can change out Dino oil before it starts breaking down twice for the same cost of stretching things with Synthetics, and the contaminants are removed with the oil change.

I dunno if I am right or wrong in this, but the corrosive contaminants that are not filtered out, are more of a threat than some slight breakdown in the molecular chain is to wear.

It's working for me so far.

Merry Christmas!!!
Eddiberry

P.S.

Almost forgot.
The extra oil from the Bikes that dosn't go into the Mower, goes into a couple of oil cans and it's used for lubing hinges,nuts& Bolts etc, and general farm lube.


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## Bruceman

Alright, synthetic oil is mammade, meaning that every molecule is the exact same size, therfore, synthetic oil exerts the same amount of pressure on the internal bearings, whereas, conventional oil does not. This, in turn extends amount of time before a rebuild is neccessary.

Synthetic oil does last a lot longer before breakdown than conventional oil, however, it still gets dirty, just like conventional oil. Dirty oil equals, scratches, more friction and uneven bearing pressure.

Is synthetic oil worth it? Not in my book.

Synthetic oil Costs ALOT more than conventional oil, and long term benefits will only be recognized if you're going to keep the car till the wheels fall off.

If you want to help your car without flattening the ol' wallet, buy a better oil filter.

Bruce~


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## Archdean

Bingo... In a nutshell Synthetic oils are noticeably beneficial when used in a system that is not subject to contamination by the combustion process IE. in hydraulic systems (flows better hence a smoother quicker response!!)

To claim (pretend) that you don't have to change your engine oil as often as you would with with Dino oil is to say that you are perfectly content to let your engine cope with the naturally occurring acids in either method that will eventually ruin it!! UNLESS you change it as you would normally do for Dino oil!! Savings = NONE!

For the purposes of this discussion it will suffice to say that the most important ingredients in any lubricant are the additive packages that are added at the point of manufacture,, You get what you pay for!!

No matter what filter you use nor how much you pay for it will not naturalize the destructive acids produced by the combustion process!! Although some are much better than others in filtering particles!!

:cowboy:


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## red

i use mobil 1 in my cars -read about it in popular mechanics ages ago. also read in a couple of car magazines about the racers how amazed they were when they started using it in their car & how they noticed almost no wear @ teardown (which they do after every race) cost is the same -went from 3k to 5k for changes. still less than manufacturers recommendation. dino for tractor


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## Morgan

Change the filter out and keep running the same synthetic oil until the next oil change. Thats what we do at work it makes the synthetic oil last longer and keeps it cleaner. It may not be the RIGHT thing to do or maybe it is, it depends on who you ask.


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## Bill Kapaun

I like it for my bicycle!


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## bushy65

I have been a qualified Diesel fitter for over twenty years and i have seen both the good and bad sides of synthetic oils. I believe that they have very specific applications and should not replace Mineral based oils in every instance, indeed some machines fail if synthetics are used over mineral types.
However, if you start a machine on either type of oil then i believe that you should stick to it through out its entire service life as they wear to suit the oils used.


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## Live Oak

With the price of synthetic oils lately, first off I am glad I bought a 55 gallon drum of John Deere 15W-40 Plust 50 which is a synthetic blend and with the outrageously high prices of synthetic, I am looking at using conventional oil at least for summer use as it is less than half the cost in some cases.


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## donmopar

the real advantage to they synthetic is being able to use a lighter weight which will net you better fuel economy and yes it does last longer the down side is if your engine is not built for it or is of a design that does dirty up the oil quickly. in a modern car with tight tolerances and good seals with a very efficient fuel injection system the oil will work great but I personally beleive that in older tractors or diesels that dirty up the oil the oil needs to be changed sooner just to get rid of contaminates even though the oil has not broken down any.


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## magfarm

I know this thread has not been active for a while but I would like to add my two cents, for whatever it's worth. I also apologize in advance for the length of the post because this is something I am very interested in.

The original article posted seems to be mostly opinion with nothing much to back those opinions up with.



> "Synthetic oil will do nothing whatsoever to lessen auto
> emissions, as compared to a high quality standard motor oil.
> In any properly working motor, the oil never gets anywhere
> near the combustion process, and it is combustion that
> creates the emissions.


That's not entirely true. Oxidation is the most important form of chemical breakdown of a motor oil and its additives. The chemicals in a motor oil are continuously reacting with oxygen inside an engine. The effects of oxidation due to this reaction as well as the by-products of combustion produce very acidic compounds inside an engine. These acidic compounds cause corrosion of internal engine components, deposits, changes in oil viscosity, varnish, sludge and other insoluble oxidation products that can cause a performance and durability degradation of your engine over a period of time.

As an engine goes through multiple heating and cooling cycles this sludge can harden and cause other problems such as restricted passageways and decreased component tolerances. Varnish can cause such things as piston ring and valve sticking. The deposits can also affect heat transfer from pistons to cylinder and in extreme cases can cause seizure of the piston in the cylinder. Pistons also have oil return slots machined into them that can become plugged and result in increased oil consumption and additional deposits created on top of the deposits that are already there. Deposits also form on the tops of pistons which over a period of time can cause pre-ignition, increased fuel octane requirements, detonation/pinging and increased exhaust hydrocarbon emissions and an overall destructive effect on the engines internal parts. Deposits also form inside valve covers, timing gear covers, oil pump pickup screens, oil filters and oil passageways.


> How often should you change the oil and filter if one uses
> synthetic oil? You ALWAYS change according to the vehicle
> manufacturer's recommendations in the owners manual.


Again, this is one person's opinion because he doesn't give any valid reasons as to why.


> As for the filter, it should be changed at the same interval
> as when normal oil is used.


This is about the only thing the author of this article got correct. Filtration (both oil & air) is just as, if not more, important than the type of oil used. The particle size range in which 60% of engine wear occurs is in the 5 to 20 micron range. You want to be cautious of oil filters advertising a certain micron rating unless it also specifically states what efficiency it achieves at that micron size or shows a graph indicating the efficiency at various micron sizes. Bypass filtration will clean the oil much more, down to 2 micron particle size, allowing even longer extended drain intervals in conjunction with oil analysis.


> Synthetic oils do not protect the engine better than normal oils.


Again, this is also not true. A few basic key functions of a motor oil is to reduce friction under all extremes of operating condition, prevent corrosion of internal engine components and provide for cooling via transfer of heat.

When using a petroleum oil, under certain conditions, the lubricant film can be either too thin, thus allowing metal-to-metal contact, or too viscous which causes high internal friction within the layers of the oil. The key is to select an oil that is thin enough to have a low internal friction coefficient, yet still high enough to effectively separate two metal surfaces under all operational conditions and prevent excessive wear and heat generation. The facts prove that synthetic lubrication achieves both of these objectives while with petroleum oil there can be a compromise. The uniform molecular structure of synthetic lubricants allow it to flow freely for low internal friction, yet still effectively separate two metal-to-metal contact surfaces under normal and extreme
operating conditions and significantly reduce internal wear.

It is also a myth that synthetic oils cause engine seals to leak. Synthetics absolutely do not cause seals to leak, they simply may only possibly reveal an existing leak path and a seal that has failed and is in need of mechanical replacement. Either the seal lip is worn down or the seal is hardened and cracked from old age, heat and ozone. If you have an older higher mileage engine that has been running petroleum oil for its entire life, and it also leaks, for example around the rear-main oil seal, then chances are it may leak the same or possibly more with synthetic oil. Synthetic oil is naturally cleansing and high detergent and will remove internal engine sludge and varnish deposits, but synthetic
oil does not cause leaks. This is commonly referred to as a false seal.



> To claim (pretend) that you don't have to change your engine oil as often as you would with with Dino oil is to say that you are perfectly content to let your engine cope with the naturally occurring acids in either method that will eventually ruin it!! UNLESS you change it as you would normally do for Dino oil!! Savings = NONE!


It's the synthetic base stock along with the proper additive mixture allows synthetic oils to last much longer than their dino counterparts.

Pretend? I can't speak for other manufacturers but AMSOIL does not pretend. Their claims of better fuel ecomony, lower emissions, lower operating temperatures, more efficiency, longer engine or equipment life and total cost savings are based on 37+ years of research, lab and road tests along with thousands of customer testimonials. Sorry about the commercial but I couldn't let that one go.

Again, sorry for the long post, I could go on and on. Please flame away, all I ask is you keep an open mind about the subject.


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## Fordfarm

Well - even though this is an old thread - I'll put my2¢ in the mix. 
I use old Dinobecause the fake stuff is just too expensive. I've used nothing but Walmart Super Tech in everything I own for YEARS. I've had ZERO problems with ANYTHING. I finally traded my 1997 F-150 in at over 350,000 miles - most of that pulling a trailer. I'd still have it if it would have been a 4x4. The guy who has it now has put another 60,000 on it, and he uses Wally oil. 

With synthetic, I'd have bought the truck TWICE just in oil. I can change my oil almost 4 times with SuperTech oil, to ONCE with Mobile One. Amsoil is not real common around here, but I sure if it was, it would be way outta MY price range......


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## tractorguy3

I like the plain oil standard motor oil the best. I've tried synthetics before, but I wasn't impressed.


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## flman

I use synthetic for sludge free engines, have not used it long enough to prove longevity, but that is usually a maintenance issue. I use Amsoil for most applications.


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## snowman17

if synthetic lasts longer, then more dirt would build up in it and wear the engine more, that is with no filter. I do not have a preference, but I am adamant about regular maintenance. I used to think it was not necessary to change the oil/filters or lube fittings, but I almost ruined my mower engine that way. With regular maintenance, it runs better than when I bought it.


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## IH farm boy

i started using , Rotella t sinthetic 5-40 especially in my lawn tractors it hold up to the heat of the air cooled engines, my 1320 i change once a year and i mow over two acres once a weeks and it dosnt burn a drop and stays so clean, my craftsman i change every two years but i dont put a lot of hours on it . i also run it in my truck and picked up 2 miles to the gallon , i use Amzoil in all my two stoke stuff my quad , lawn boy , chainsaws and weed wacker. i ran it in my car and it got great gas milage , i changed the filter at 3,000 and the oil at 12,000 and it would only burn half a quart. i picked up 2 miles to the gallon in the winter and 3 in the summer. Rotella is awsome. they say it is better for flat tappet engines because of the high zinc content compared to others.


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## briggs

i use SAE 30 and nothing else


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## NEVADA RICK

Love the synths 

but remember rule one !!!

Old engine seals + synth oil = many leaks that wont seal up again

so unless it is a new engine with new seals or you like repairing leaks 
stick with liquid dinos


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## NEVADA RICK

Ok silly me i thought you meant real tractors
NOT LAWN MOWERS [SNICKER ....... CUTE]


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## fmoss

*What about Gear Oil?*

Here is one for this never ending thread.

I am a fan if synthetic gear oil and use it in the gearcase of my outboard motors as there is always the threat of water contamination.

My question is ok to mix conventional (dino) and synthetics in transmissions and engines for that matter. My fear is that they will foam or go stupid in some way.

There are many synthetic blends on the market. Is it possible to mix your own in an effort to make a pail of the expensive stuff go a little further?


Frank


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## IH farm boy

*leaks ?*

i guess , i havnt had any problems wiht gaskets leaking with synthetic , i have used it in a car with 90,000 , and my truck had 128,000 on it , my lawn tractors are not new buy no means , i guess its possible . has anyone else had problems with that ? ive only used two kinds penzoil and shell rotella synthetic .


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## ZZ71

Lets keep it going.........

I have use synthetic oils since 1975. I will never use anything else, ever. I use AMSOIL, always have and always will. 

Oil is not just oil. There is a difference in high-performance oils and the oils that just meet the minimum industry requirements. Commodity oils in the marketplace only have to meet minimum performance levels set by API. Using minimum level oils will result in reduced performance and shorter engine life.


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## Hawk

ZZ71 said:


> Lets keep it going.........
> 
> I have use synthetic oils since 1975. I will never use anything else, ever. I use AMSOIL, always have and always will.
> 
> Oil is not just oil. There is a difference in high-performance oils and the oils that just meet the minimum industry requirements. Commodity oils in the marketplace only have to meet minimum performance levels set by API. Using minimum level oils will result in reduced performance and shorter engine life.


I also use Amsoil in all my stuff that counts. And it has saved me lots over the years between repairs and seals. Even my 60 gal air compressor in sub 0 temps works like a charm due to this. 

If you look at Dino oils and the rate you need to change them, Synth oil saves you much more over time due to longer life span and better protection. 

What sold me on it was back in Dino time, I had a 68 Ford Stang that someone thought they would be funny and loosen my oil drain plug. Well long story short, when I started to tear down the motor to fix it. The only thing I needed to replace was my Rod bearings due to minor scoring. Synth oil is what helped save the motor after 200 mile drive with pretty much NO oil. And yes it was Amsoil.


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## Hawk

IH farm boy said:


> i guess , i havnt had any problems wiht gaskets leaking with synthetic , i have used it in a car with 90,000 , and my truck had 128,000 on it , my lawn tractors are not new buy no means , i guess its possible . has anyone else had problems with that ? ive only used two kinds penzoil and shell rotella synthetic .


Friend of mine has a 96 Suburban 360K and a 96 Dodge Ram 1500 with 314K, both on Amsoil and no major work done. Both still on the road as daily drivers. Well the Suburban needed the intake gasket done (well known issue for that year but didn't show until 302K miles over the normal 123K to 168K) and we did a full gasket set w/ seals due to miles. But most of them were still in great shape. But they wanted to just change them out anyway. And both transmissions are orginal run on Amsoil Trany fluid, mind you these are farm trucks and do lots of heavy pulling and field driving in 4x4 and have made it through 4 kids and 3 left to go.


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## osceola1

*Hinomoto c-174 Valve Lash Help !!!*

does anyone know what the valve adjustment should be on a Hinomoto C=174


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## svcguy

Asking this question is like asking what is better, a Ford or a Dodge? The answer will be an opinion, not an answer. I will wade in though, with an interesting experience. In 1992, I purchased a VW Jetta turbo charged diesel. There was no end to the warnings about cheap oil, the superior synthetic, etc. etc. I looked it all over and decided on Wal-mart 15/40 diesel oil and their FRAM filters (also warned about FRAM). Oil and filters were changed every 3000 miles without failure. I may have run a 100 miles over at times, but very seldom. The car never burned more than a half quart of oil between any change and only when run at extended high speeds. This fall, at 486,000 the turbo was starting to leak a bit and the advance lever on the injector pump needed to be replaced, so I ran it into the shop. Pulled the head, injector pump, turbo and the pan (more for curiosity). The inside of the engine was so clean it almost defied reality. There was a light golden brown tinge to some parts, that was it. No sludge or residuals. The car has never been babied, but has always been cared for. I don't know how much longer I will run the old thing, but it is still a great runner. I have replaced the suspension components, brakes, wheel bearings and exhaust systems enough times that I can't remember the number. The engine however is a thing of beauty. Can this be attributed to Wal-Mart oil? Probably has nothing to do with it. But changing the oil and filters _regularly_ with whatever type of oil you want to believe in will do the trick every time.


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## ZZ71

Thing is, if you would have used a high performance synthetic oil you could have achieved the same results changing the oil every 10,000 miles, and you would have saved a lot of $$ doing so. Changing oil every 3,000 miles is a waste of resources, its not cheap insurance if you are wasting your money. 

As in all things there are varying degrees of quality and you get exactly what you pay for. Regular oils may “do the job” but how good of a job do they do, how long can they do the job and with what level of quality? Synthetic lubes offer superior performance for customers who operate in extremely cold conditions, want to maximize engine life and performance and extend drain intervals. Your generic 3,000 mile oil is not capable of that.

So keep giving your hard earned money to the oil companies for their 3,000 mile oil and filters. I learned 35 yrs ago that it was not the wise thing to do for my vehicles and wallet. Once a year is fine for me.


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## svcguy

I heat my shop with waste oil, so I guess it's not all that bleak.


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## ZZ71

Maybe, maybe not. Some reading on EPA proposal to curb waste oil burning......

Lube News Blog: EPA Proposal


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## dangeroustoys56

I have a 'few' lawntractors, drive a 99 ford f150 and also have a 07 kia - ill start off with the kia, the factory states its full synthetic oil , i dont know what brand or anything, since its under warranty still- they change it every 3000 miles ( per warranty) - i check it ocassionally and it looks alot like super dirty oil all the time, even after changing it- it has 55,000 miles on it.

I change the oil in my truck around 3000 miles, i use wix oil filters ( to me fram is junk- i had a bad oil filter once and i refuse to use that brand again), i used to use Castrol , but since the BP 'stuff' hit the fan, ive switched to valvaline/pennzoil 5w30- never had an issue with anything, has 82,000 miles already.

As for my tractors, i use pretty much any grade oil, 30 weight to 10w40 - name brand stuff like mobil, valvaline, pennzoil - bot a bunch of the mobil on clearance super cheep. I also use lucas oil additive to the oil and fuel , and use thier grease for the other componets.

The oil changes vary on the tractors, since i have so many- i dont go by months, i go by color of the oil only- my oldest tractor is 41 years old ( motor is all original) to 7 years old ( thats 1969 to 2003) - never had any internal issues with any of those motors ( all splash type motors). Considering all were left for dead when i got them, they run very well.

Altho i do mod some of my tractors, im considering using a couple quarts of 'royal purple' in those machines, to help em combat the effects of the hard use theyll endure.


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## john walsh

*Synthetic oils- Advantages vs disadvantages (warning-long post)*

The question was raised about whether synthetics are superior to mineral oils. In my opinion, the only downside to syn oil is the expense. If longer drain intervals are used, that starts to become a wash. The experience I had noticed with the two oils had to do with a 1979 VW Scirocco (similar to Rabbit). I put 100K on the original engine with 3K dino oil and filter changes. At that point, I transplanted a near-new Rabbit GTI engine with some mild hot rodding into it and ran it on syn oil. for about 120K miles. The engine run on dino oil was in pretty good shape at the time it was replaced, but showed some mild sludging internally and some very tiny pitting on the tips of the cam lobes ( a sign of lubrication failure). Because of the price of the Mobil1 I used in the new engine, I drained at VW's recomended drain interval of 7500 miles initially (maybe for 30K miles). About that time, I saw a 1-800 ask mobil # in a car mag and called to ask what I could get away with as far as drain intervals and the Engineer manning the phones told me initially that I should change at the manufacturer's recommended interval to preserve my warranty. I explained that that was long past and I just wanted to know how long is feasible. What he said shocked me-he said he used a 25K interval for oil(filters at 7500 with added bypass filter) for his Corvette. Even tho my car was not worth a lot, I couldn't get myself to go that far, but I did almost as much at 21K intervals toward the end of that car's life. No, it didn't wear out, it rusted out at 219K. When I opened the engine up what I saw was amazing. Altho the oil would be very dark at those extended drain intervals, the cam showed none of the pitting I saw on the dino motor-lobes appeared to be chrome plated. There was also no sludging at all in the engine. I currently have a 95 V6 Ford Ranger with 208K miles run with Mobil1 draining at 15K, filters at 7.5K. It uses very little oil between changes (< 1 qt.) and I'm hoping for many more miles out of it.
Do I run syn in my other stuff? Yes and no. I have several motorcycles and run syn in them, as they are hard on their oil, but I think dino is perfectly fine in my compact diesel tractor and riding mower and push mower.
One of the posts mentioned that oil is not in contact with combustion, but I think you all will agree that as the piston is pushed down the bore during combustion, more and more of the cylinder wall, with a thin film of oil, is exposed to the burning air/fuel mix. With a much higher tolerance to heat, syn literally shines there.

John Walsh


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## borgward

*Sometimes*

we used synthetic in our Corolla. Always changed oil at Jiffy Lube. I noticed that Jiffy Lube was not using the correct oil filter for Synthetic after I researched oil at www.bobistheoilguy.com where I discovered that you really do need special oil filter for synthetic because it has extra capacity for extended changes.

I always used Castrol 5-30 in our 99 Mercury Tracer and had oil changed every 3000 miles at Jiffy Lube. I got curious about oil after the Tracer lost oil pressure at only 180,000 miles. I expect a modern engine to go 300,000 miles. I also researched oil filters. I could not find anything about the one Jiffy Lube used with a Google search. BTW, they used the same cheap filter on the Corolla as well.

I would use something like Mobil 1, or Shell Rotella in the Tracer, but it would void the Marshall Motors warranty. I am using the Bosch Oil Filter now. I would use Wix as it also is highly rated. 

I started using Chevron Delo 300 30wt in our old roto tiller after getting 300F operating temperature.

I am interested in getting dino vs synthetic opinions.

We traded the Corolla in on a 2011 Hyundai Limited addition. Hyundai recommends against using Synthetic. We shopped Honda as well. They also recommend against Synthetic. I know Honda motors are good for 300,000 miles. I suspect they are against using synthetic, as the need the car to wear out so they can sell new ones. Ditto for Hyundai.

Kawasaki markets the only motor oil refined from Pennsylvania crude.

Anyway, I am back to changing the oil myself so that I am sure it is done correctly.


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## ZZ71

AMSOIL make a long life oil filter, up to 15,000 miles of service using synthetic media. What is the engine and car model? I can look in my Wix/Donaldson/AMSOIL master filter catalog and see if they have one for it. Give me the Wix number also. AMSOIL filters use Donaldson nano-fiber media and are made for them by Wix.


Look up up you car here AMSOIL Online Product Application Guide


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## magfarm

NEVADA RICK said:


> Love the synths
> 
> but remember rule one !!!
> 
> Old engine seals + synth oil = many leaks that wont seal up again
> 
> so unless it is a new engine with new seals or you like repairing leaks
> stick with liquid dinos


That's not true. Synthetic oil will not cause leaks. They are fully compatible with seal materials and the only reason for leaks would be if the seal was already bad.


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## magfarm

fmoss said:


> Here is one for this never ending thread.
> 
> I am a fan if synthetic gear oil and use it in the gearcase of my outboard motors as there is always the threat of water contamination.
> 
> My question is ok to mix conventional (dino) and synthetics in transmissions and engines for that matter. My fear is that they will foam or go stupid in some way.
> 
> There are many synthetic blends on the market. Is it possible to mix your own in an effort to make a pail of the expensive stuff go a little further?
> 
> 
> Frank


Frank, synthetic oils and gear lubes are fully compatible with petroleum oils. The thing is when you mix them you take away any advantage you gain with synthetic oils - longer drain intervals and longer engine and gear life. It's best not to mix the two unless you have to.


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## tractorguy3

Since I last posted to this thread I decided to give synthetics another try. I pretty much found no difference in how my tractor ran. The plus side was that the oil didn't need to be changed as quickly, I ended up running it without an oil change a lot longer than I normally would.


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## firemanracer17

I use Amsoil synthetic lubricants in everything from my lawn mower to my farmall. I wouldn't use any other synthetic in my old tractor because amsoil is what I have found to be far superior.(I mighe be a bit partial since I sell it) but that's a whole both story..


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## Cublover

I'm too cheap to try the synthetic thing, but I dump Lucas or JB products into everything I own. My 61 Ford has 300K, wifes Outback is at 160k, mine, 125k. GMC is pushing 193K.

Oil is not enough. I have no real input on the synthetic vs fossil debate, cause I cheat by doing 'additives'.
I replace a vehicle when rust eats the floors or someone creams it while parked.
I have never replaced a car/truck/machine over a 'failed' engine.(Except when someone borrowed my Toyota, 225k and tried to push it harder than I ever would have)
My oldest Cub was shot when I bought it, so it don't count.


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## mossboss

*Cub Cadet 2135 Hydrostatic oil Substitute*

Want to change the oil and filter in the hydro. A lot of posts using mobil 15w-40. Has anyone used a cheaper oil than cub oil with good results?


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## john walsh

I too would be interested in finding a synthetic alternative to Cub Cadet hydro oil. I am assuming you meant Mobil1 synthetic diesel oil in 15w40?


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## mossboss

No diesel oil, the treads I saw referred to Moble 1 car oil. Also saw treads on Shell 15-40 dino oil.


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## thedeeredude

Life is all about balance. Its good to have a mix of synthetic and traditional


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## TINBENDER7

I am driving my 4th Ford F150 gas engine truck that has reached over 250,000 miles and use the synthetic oil and run open highway most of the time. I have ran all the trucks 15,000 between oil changes and the one I am driving now will normally use 2 qts between changes.I do use Dino oil in my tractors as they are all at least 40 years old and I did not get them new, and enjoy tinkering and changing the oil in them probably way to often.


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## JBGKing

I have used Amsoil in all my vehicles and equipment since 2008 and wouldn't use anything else.


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## larhan31031

I use Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 10w-30 in my 6.5 hp OHV 3500 watt Champion(Honda Clone)generator,Stihl Synthetic 2 cycle oil in my trimmer,and saws,Mobil 1 10w-30 in all vehicles,Delo 15w-40 Full Synthetic Diesel Oil in my YM2000,and Amsoil MCV 10w-40 in the motorcycles,and ATV.Works well in anything,espessially in the generator,runs much cooler,and smoother.Cant afford the Amsoil in all my stuff,but that Mobil 1 seems to work really well...


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## film495

K301 motor

use 5w20 synth in winter
use 30wt dino rest of year

I would consider synth for the 30wt, but for the extra cost not sure what the value would be, nor do I know where to find it.


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## Heatdr1

I use Rotella T6 in my diesel truck,Royal Purple in my work van and SAE 30 in my tractor and garden tractors


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## gman51

I am a firm believer in synthetic and I use Mobil 1 full synthetic in all my vehicles. I started using Mobil 1 in my 97 Ford Ranger P/up when it already had over 100,000 miles on the meter and contrary to some reports it didn't start leaking like a sieve. The engine is much quieter during start ups and it never did have negative results from changing over the oil. I just sold the truck with 169,000 miles on it and the engine was still running great.
On a Malibu 3.5 I changed the oil when the engine service light came on which was around 8500 mile intervals. The oil was always still on the full mark at changes and at 169,000 miles the engine ran like new. I am a firm believer in synthetic oil and because of the longer service intervals it actually is cheaper using it. IMO it is a much better metal wear protectant than Dino oil and I used to use Castrol in everything before the synthetic.


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## skunkhome

I use it where required. Latest car and RV get synthetic, truck and kick about car get Dino among with old tractors, generator, tiller, lawnmower and edger


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## gaspump

What a very interesting subject, one we all use/think about every day!!
What I get from all the reply's is a lot of personal use versus myths, or advertising. Through all there hasn't been very much mention of quality of oils, whether Dino or synthetics. There is good and bad and anywhere in between, to both Dino and synthetics. 
There is full synth oil and partial, and again anywhere in between. A few years ago a body of agencies regarding synthetic oils, relaxed( or at least changed requirements ) so oil companies could market there product as full synthetic, when in fact, they weren't up to par with the companies that manufactured oil to the old requirments(parameters). So did the original company's lower there additive packages (cost of manufacture) to compete with some of the new company's sqeeking in to the new minimum requirements? I, for one don't believe so. When some of us that just decided to try synthetics because of the hype, and we get a lower quality synthetic( usually lower price) put it in our engine, transmission or whatever, and it works good-- wow synthetics a sure good, but expensive!! But if we have a problem, whether it was something that would have failed with any oil-- we say don't use synthetics, I put in my( whatever unit) and it failed. It is junk etc etc.
It would be good and informative for all of us to go to a computer site and have it explain oils and synthetics, qualities of each and comparisons etc.
I wonder if anyone remembers way back in the 70's, an synthetic oil brand came out ( I cannot remember name) but its base was etheline glycol) now there was one that if you didn't clean petroleum oil out of whatever you were putting it in, you had glue!! Maybe the start of our scepticism about mixing Dino and synthetics??
I do know synthetics were developed for extreme temps, both very cold and very hot. I do know a highway logging truck, with Dino in trans and diffs, ran 8 to 12 deg F cooler with synthetics in trans and diffs, with gauge on each, on same 325 mi haul, with same load weight. Fuel consumption over the season was about 10 to 15 liters per day less. This was Amsoil products.
I am not an Amsoil dealer!. Yes you need to have good filters, either normal filters changed at half life of oil, or filters for synthetic oil.
Sorry for the long post. Let's hear some comments, pls


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