# Massey Harris-Ferguson TEA ignition problem



## Saltspring (Mar 5, 2021)

I have a TEA tractor manufactured in 1957. I changed the coil, plugs, points, plug leads, and condenser a couple of years ago and it was running fine but then started missing the other day after I had been using it for a couple of hours. After parking it, it became very difficult to start and would hardly run. I changed the condenser, points, and rotor, and checked the spark. I noticed that the spark was an orange colour vs blue in all cylinders. After doing all that I now don't have any spark at all. I've checked the lead from the ignition to coil as well the as coil to distributor lead and have continuity.

There is no condensation in the distributor cap, and all the connections are good and dry.

Can anyone suggest what might be wrong?
Much appreciated!


----------



## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Hello Saltspring, welcome to the forum.

I would try "hotwiring" your system for checking purposes. Remove the wire from your coil input and run a wire direct from the battery hot terminal to the coil input. If you get good spark doing this, then your problem is with the keyswitch or maybe a resistor between the switch and coil? If you do not get good spark with the hotwire, then your problem is with the coil or maybe a bad connection between the coil and and distributor. Use an ohmmeter to check for connection problems. 

PS - don't forget and leave the hotwire in place. Same as leaving the keyswitch on.... can burn the points.


----------



## Saltspring (Mar 5, 2021)

Hi BigT, Thanks for your suggestion. I'll give that a try.

Since my initial post, I've checked the wire from the ignition switch to the coil as well as the wire from the coil to the distributor, and the lead from the coil to the distributor cap, and all have continuity.

There is no condensation in the distributor cap, and all the connections are good and dry. I've also connected a light bulb between the disconnected wires, that would normally go to the coil + & - posts and then to the distributor, to see if it flashes according to something I saw on YouTube. It came on when I turned the key but didn't flash (but I'm not sure if that test applies to this engine??). As well, I tested the ohms between the coil + & - posts. The reading started out at about 6 and then dropped to zero. The reading between the coil's pos. post and the center was about 10+...


----------



## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

QUOTE: "I've also connected a light bulb between the disconnected wires, that would normally go to the coil + & - posts and then to the distributor, to see if it flashes according to something I saw on YouTube. It came on when I turned the key but didn't flash (but I'm not sure if that test applies to this engine??). 

OK, try this test again and crank the engine. The light should flash. This test shows if your points are working (making/breaking the circuit).


----------



## Saltspring (Mar 5, 2021)

Thanks for your suggestion. I rechecked the + & - coil wires and the timing before connecting the light. When I hooked up the light and turned the engine over the light did not flash. I then took the lead out of the distributor cap that comes from the coil and held it near the block while I cranked the engine. There was a good spark, so that told me that the coil is good (I think). I then rechecked the points (brand new) and when I had the distributor cap off I noticed that the center contact point on the cap that goes to the rotor was just shy of being flush with the cap. My recollection is that this contact usually extends beyond the cap and contacts the rotor, so I pushed on it with a screwdriver and it slid back into the cap and stayed there! I think this must be the problem (hopefully!), so I'll pick up a new distributor cap and see if that works.


----------



## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Well, if you are getting spark from the coil, it almost has to be the cap or the rotor.


----------



## Saltspring (Mar 5, 2021)

I'll let you know after I replace the cap. Thanks again for your help.


----------



## Saltspring (Mar 5, 2021)

Hi BigT,
Well, the new distributor cap fixed my lack of spark problem but not the rough running problem that was the start of things. Now that I have spark I'm back to the initial problem which is that when I try to start the tractor it starts very rough like it needs to be choked. I play choke back and forth when starting it but it barely runs for about 10 seconds and then dies. I've also adjusted the throttle but that makes no difference. When I pulled the plugs to check for spark I could smell that there was lots of gas getting to the cylinder so I don't think that's the problem.

Any ideas/suggestions? Thanks!


----------



## Saltspring (Mar 5, 2021)

I removed the carb again and cleaned it out thoroughly and made sure all ports were open and clean. I also checked the rotor and there didn’t seem to be excessive movement. The spring still returns the rotor quite firmly when I move it by hand and I have replaced the coil. I also replaced the wire from the ignition key to the coil because it was the original with a splice. The intake hose is clear but it still won’t start when I spray ether in the intake.

I have just now again checked the spark and I have spark (reddish) on #4 plug but it seems intermittent. I then checked #1 and 3, and there isn’t any spark at all. I can smell gas on the compression stroke when the plug is out so I figure it’s getting enough fuel. But I don’t understand why no spark now?

Sure appreciate any suggestions/help - Thanks!


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Did you try BigT's suggestion of running a hot wire from the battery to the ignition coil ??, please do so, because your problem with spark could be a faulty ignition switch, and another to keep in mind is the coil, could be going faulty, -- these old points, condenser and coil ignitions systems are as simple as.

There is a good possibility that you may be flooding the engine and causing it to run rough when it does start, have you noticed black exhaust smoke when it does fire up ??.


----------



## Saltspring (Mar 5, 2021)

FredM said:


> Did you try BigT's suggestion of running a hot wire from the battery to the ignition coil ??, please do so, because your problem with spark could be a faulty ignition switch, and another to keep in mind is the coil, could be going faulty, -- these old points, condenser and coil ignitions systems are as simple as.
> 
> There is a good possibility that you may be flooding the engine and causing it to run rough when it does start, have you noticed black exhaust smoke when it does fire up ??.


Thanks for your reminder about BigT's suggestion...I completely missed doing that with all the other things I've been trying. I just tried it though, and still nothing. I can't even get it going to see if there's black smoke so that'll have to wait but when it was running before there would only be whitish smoke for a bit if it had been a while since the last time I had it running - until it warmed up.

However, when checking the wires from the ignition key, starter button, and dash light, I did notice a cube-like metal box where a number of wires went to/from. I just checked a wiring diagram and it says that is a regulator. When I ordered the latest coil I just installed I was asked if the tractor had an external regulator...I said 'no'. So now I'm wondering if this would cause a poor or faulty spark? Unfortunately, this is evidence of my ignorance of these things so if anyone can help out with more suggestions, advice, or otherwise, I'd greatly appreciate any help.


----------



## Saltspring (Mar 5, 2021)

I just called a tractor shop and they explained that the regulator I saw is the battery charging regulator, not a coil resistor/regulator. So it looks like I have the correct coil and that I'm back to square one again...


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Instead of using the starter to turn the engine over, remove the HT lead from the distributor cap, remove the cap from the distributor, turn ignition on and place an insulated screw driver blade between the ignition points and with a twisting motion open and shut the points, if the points are in the open position, then make and break with the blade against the fixed contact and the moving contact whilst holding the HT lead close to a good grounding point checking the spark output, this will do the same as cranking the engine.

I would like you to remove the points and really give them a good eyeball, I have fitted new points in the past and these have had a shorting problem, to save removing, you could place a piece of plastic between the point contacts, remove the ignition wire tail and use a multimeter set to ohms and place a probe on the moving contact and the other onto the fixed contact base and see if there is a circuit to ground, if your distributor has vacuum or mechanical advance, I would also like you to check the tail wire that comes from the outside of the distributor and attaches to the points, these tails can and do fracture the copper core inside the insulation and will cause ignition problems, believe me.

When you hot wired, you did remove the ignition switch wire from the coil so as to not get feedback from the ignition system wiring?, so there is not much else to check,-- coil, condenser, distributor cap, cap carbon contact, rotor, and HT leads, and of course, power supply to coil, and the ballast resistor, silly me!!.

And the air gap between the ignition contacts are set correctly??.


----------

