# Magneto problem



## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

Trouble starting it.
I ended up getting my friends Sears GT14 L&G tractor for free. So far I believe the Magneto isn't working, as I removed the spark plug and laid it close to metal and turned it over and wouldn't you know it No spark. Where does one start looking for a replacement Magneto P/N 610906 for this dead horse, LOL


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

Tecumseh has been out of business for many years. The only ignition modules (P/N 610906) remaining available are those that have been found on a shelf somewhere. You can find them for sale on the internet, but the price is very high. The tractor is worthless without the magneto.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

mjgord51 said:


> Trouble starting it.
> I ended up getting my friends Sears GT14 L&G tractor for free. So far I believe the Magneto isn't working, as I removed the spark plug and laid it close to metal and turned it over and wouldn't you know it No spark. Where does one start looking for a replacement Magneto P/N 610906 for this dead horse, LOL


Sixbales is right you're screwed.... That engine is pretty much a boat anchor if the SSI is shot. You're best bet is to find a K321 Kohler as a replacement. I know it's not what you want to hear, but you are by no means the 1st guy on this Forum to get the painful truth about a Tecumseh SSI ignition system.

Tecumseh was the only major small engine OEM that decided to go with solid state ignitions systems when everbody was moving away from points in the late 60's. Everybody else went with magnetos. They went out of business in 2009 and there are millions of their SSI engines out there that are painfully worthless now.


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

Well that SUCK's
The replacement you speak of form Kohler # K321 would you think/know it will work? I assume the K321 is a usable/installable Magneto?


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

mjgord51 said:


> Well that SUCK's
> The replacement you speak of form Kohler # K321 would you think/know it will work? I assume the K321 is a usable/installable Magneto?


K321 is an old school Kohler K series 14hp engine with a point ignition system. They were solid as a rock, there are millions of them still around, and there are plenty of replacement parts still available. The only issue you might have is plumbing an exhaust system to fit your GT14 and there are plenty of options available for that.

Even if you find one that is worn out, a complete overhaul kit is around $130 (Stens #785-360)


K321 Overhaul Kit


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

I'll pass on the engine swap. Maybe a Motorcycles Magneto might work providing all of the electrical specs are the same. Always another way to skinn a cat.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

mjgord51 said:


> I'll pass on the engine swap. Maybe a Motorcycles Magneto might work providing all of the electrical specs are the same. Always another way to skinn a cat.


Sure there is..... They are all over the internet. It's just that most guys realize that spending $150-$200 to bring a 50 year old Tecumseh engine back to life that was probably worn out and that's why it was parked in the first place is not really an economically sound decision. Especially one that's in a 50 year old mower that you can barely find parts for any longer either.

You might want to consider there isn't a month go by that you don't see a guy posting on this Forum...... "I just got a late 60's/early 70's Sears L&G tractor with a Tecumseh engine for free, where do I get parts?"

Good luck with skinning that cat...... It'll be interesting to hear how this version turns out


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

What place of Business would that "Shelf" be in, you know like Uncle Fred's Small Tractor Supply or something on that line?


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

mjgord51 said:


> What place of Business would that "Shelf" be in, you know like Uncle Fred's Small Tractor Supply or something like that?


That's what I'm trying to tell you.... Before you can "skinn a cat", you've got to find the cat, and it went into hiding under the house 40 years ago. Any of those OEM Tecumseh SSI ignitions, new and still in the box, would be worth really big $$$ ($400-$500) and a guy like Uncle Fred has known that since the 90's. 

You'll come across them USED all the time on E-bay...... They are a 50 year old piece of electronics just like the one you have. It's $150 and the claim is it throws a spark at the moment. Put it on an engine, heat it up under a working load, and it will probably crap out in 5 minutes. Then you're right back to looking for that cat under the house, only now you're out $150 for the dead one you just bought...... Ask me how I know 

Seen this rodeo dozens of times. You're by no means the 1st cowboy that thought he could figure out a way to ride this dead horse. You're just the one on this Forum at the moment...... Once again, good luck


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

No not going for the used one at all. I'll just figure out what all the specs (electrically) are on the OEM one then go looking for something that will work (specs wise) and also will fit good enough. Yeah 50 yrs old is still 50 yrs old,LOL


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

For Bob Driver;

Actually Tecumseh went out of Business in 2009 not 40 yrs ago.


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

sorry double post


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

mjgord51 said:


> For Bob Driver;
> 
> Actually Tecumseh went out of Business in 2009 not 40 yrs ago.


Yep..... Thanks for pointing out something I'm well aware of, but when was it they gave up on their SSI ignition system experiment and went to their standard 34443 $14 magneto like everybody else? Before you get a "there you go moment"..... Flywheel, timing, and magneto mounting/air gap is going to be your problem trying to use a 34443

Just out of curiosity since you seem to have the ability to Google Search..... Who bought Tecumseh's tooling, inventory, and intellectual property rights and is still building engines today?


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

For Bob Driver;

For the Info on who bought Tecumseh go to this place/forum called (snowblowerforum.com) look in the (General Snowblower Discussion) section and look for this thread called (Is Tecumseh gone or bought out?) that thread and its posts will give you the low down who bought who and who merged with who.


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

I did find some info on the web about the "failed" Tecumseh SSI Magneto #610906 being a completely new re-designed system.
Start Googling these names.
1. A-1 Miller, Replacement Tecumseh Electronic Ignition. 573-256-0313 or 573-881-7229.
2. Welder Parts Warehouse, TEC-Kit Tecumseh SSI Upgrade. 281-356-2902.
3. Stroller Lawn and Garden, In House Design for old SSI 610906 Magneto. 330-682-7436.

Thee old Tecumseh SSI 610906 Magneto isn't dead it just has a completely new design.

Look into them and see what you think about the new and improved SSI Magneto design. Give us your thoughts Good or Bad Pros or Cons.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

mjgord51 said:


> For Bob Driver;
> 
> For the Info on who bought Tecumseh go to this place/forum called (snowblowerforum.com) look in the (General Snowblower Discussion) section and look for this thread called (Is Tecumseh gone or bought out?) that thread and its posts will give you the low down who bought who and who merged with who.


It was Liquid Combustion Technology (LCT).... I knew that 10 years ago without having to look it up.


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

My findings about my Failed SSI Magneto.

1. I ask a question (post 1) and get a answer to just replace the "entire motor" (post 3). Then as time goes by I Google Research for some answers and come up with a few prospects about newly redesigned SSI Magnetos (post 15). the same person telling me to just replace the motor "Never responds" to those solutions I find but does respond to a question he had for me (post 13) that he post later he already knew the answer (post 16) W*T*F dude.

2. Post #7 (his words) Its not "Economically Sound Decision" to spend $150-$200 to bring an old motor back from the dead W*T*F then is this Forum all about, well I'll tell you its about finding some hard to get parts and some good strong answers and in the end getting some/a 50+ yr old piece of Machinery to run again. Some people take Pride in doing the "Impossible" and then you have the person that get Pleasure in having someone run around in circles by answering his own questions.

3. I guess the real solution would be just bite the bullet and buy a new small L&G Tractor in the upper $2,000 + range. Some people enjoy working with there hands and not with there mouths.

4. A well oiled "old" Machine is better then the newly highly over electronically/electronically computerized through away crap we have now days. Just my .02 cents


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

mjgord51 said:


> My findings about my Failed SSI Magneto.
> 
> 1. I ask a question (post 1) and get a answer to just replace the "entire motor" (post 3). Then as time goes by I Google Research for some answers and come up with a few prospects about newly redesigned SSI Magnetos (post 15). the same person telling me to just replace the motor "Never responds" to those solutions I find but does respond to a question he had for me (post 13) that he post later he already knew the answer (post 16) W*T*F dude.
> 
> ...


I was sincerely interested in trying to help you until I came across you posting almost the exact same questions on My Tractor Forum. How many answers/opinions do you need, or are you just playing internet troll? You said you were going to find another way to "skin a cat". Sounds like you really don't need my help and there's an apparent lack of other guys on this particular Forum interested in jumping in to help you because they already know about the Tecumseh SSI issues and they've seen it on here many times before. Start skinning Bud, maybe you'll get the answers you want to hear on My Tractor Forum.... That's "W*T*F dude"

_*"Some people enjoy working with there hands and not with there mouths" *_

I've owned my on small engine shop for 5 years. I'm certified to do Kohler, Briggs, and Hydro Gear warranty work and get all the work my hands can handle on a weekly basis. I don't really need to be giving an internet troll FREE information so they can feel like they've accomplished something with their hands.


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

So what as to how many Tractor Forums I ask questions on the more the merrier, so asking the same question in multiple forums makes me a " internet troll " B S dude I ask questions to get answers. Why are you here if you don't like giving out advice, I'll bet you enjoy taking peoples money that are throwing money away on just as old of machines as I have (you know I'm right) . Still I see with the mouth bashing, oh I'm sorry you probably knew that already 10 yrs ago.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Have you tested the coil windings for continuity mjgord, if the windings are ok, I am fairly sure if you were to get hold of an external ignition unit, something like the Atom ignition unit that used to be made here in Oz back in the 80's, I used these a lot back then and easy enough to setup, there must be something similar in the States that would do the job.









Atom Universal Electronic Ignition Module


Quality and Condition: New Old Stock (NOS), Sealed, in Mint Condition Application: For SMALL UNIVERSAL (gasoline/petrol) ENGINES only. Purpose: Converts and replaces...



pickersyard.weebly.com


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

_*"I'll bet you enjoy taking peoples money that are throwing money away on just as old of machines as I have (you know I'm right)" *_

Yep..... I have to admit I do have a special rate I charge. For a guy like you, I even offer a VIP Card in the frequent flyer club. 

*"Why are you here if you don't like giving out advice" *

There are several genuine Tecumseh Factory Service Manuals posted in the Resource Section on this Forum. Check there and maybe you'll find someone that is more generous sharing information on this Forum than an A-hole like me...

Hard to find parts... Never heard it run... Surfing several inter-net forums to figure out how to just get spark..... Don't have a clue if the valves/seats are pitted, rings/bore are shot and needs a $200 bore job, or that every gasket/seal is going to leak like a sieve as soon as the case heats up a few times if he does manage to get a notoriously finicky 40 year old Tecumseh engine running and the OEM parts supplier went out of business a decade ago..... Still uses the term Dude....

Man I hope somebody like you walks in the shop this week, I'd drop everything I got going just to harvest on the $$$ tree.

I'm just going to step back now and watch as you win friends and influence people with your "hands on" adventure.... Good luck with your project, especially if you eventually get around to finding out that vari-drive transmission system is junk and sounds like a coffee grinder


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

FredM said:


> Have you tested the coil windings for continuity mjgord, if the windings are ok, I am fairly sure if you were to get hold of an external ignition unit, something like the Atom ignition unit that used to be made here in Oz back in the 80's, I used these a lot back then and easy enough to setup, there must be something similar in the States that would do the job.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not sure as to how to bench test the coil windings (your words), not sure if you are talking about the spark plugs "Magneto" or the "Coil Assembly" aka Alternator" thats underneath the flywheel. I guess i could fine a small engine repair shop to test both magneto & coil assembly (alternator) as I don't have a Digital meter for testing electronics.

Thanks for the Link on the - Atom Universal Electronic Ignition Module. I'll look into it later as with the other 3 I found above in post #15.


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> _*"I'll bet you enjoy taking peoples money that are throwing money away on just as old of machines as I have (you know I'm right)" *_
> 
> Yep..... I have to admit I do have a special rate I charge. For a guy like you, I even offer a VIP Card in the frequent flyer club.
> 
> ...


I have Heard and seen it run just fine NO noise from the trans, the only problem is it just quite getting spark to the spark plug.

Kinda confused about you dropping everything to take someones money that walks into your shop (if its even yours) because you see a easy way to rape someones wallet, your advice to my problem was to JUST REPLACE THE ENTIRE MOTOR. Perplexing Moment.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

mjgord51 said:


> I'm not sure as to how to bench test the coil windings (your words), not sure if you are talking about the spark plugs "Magneto" or the "Coil Assembly" aka Alternator" thats underneath the flywheel. I guess i could fine a small engine repair shop to test both magneto 7 coil assembly (alternator) as I don't have a Digital meter for testing electronics.
> 
> Thanks for the Link on the - Atom Universal Electronic Ignition Module. I'll look into it later as with the other 3 I found above in post #15.
> View attachment 79735


Sorry, I meant the ignition coil on the left in your photo, not the alternator coil pack on the right, if you are going to be playing around with the electrics, you should go buy yourself a digital multimeter, wouldn't take much for you to learn how to use the basics of the multimeter and you can get reasonably priced ones in the States.







If you had one of these babies, you could load the coil up and see what the output would be, but in your case the price wouldn't warrant you owning one, a very handy unit to own.

I "meant" to mentioned that "Atom" went out of business in the late 80's in my post, but I think there is a Stens unit that can be bought in Oz, so I imagine that you would be able to pick one up in the States, don't outlay for one until you know the ignition coil/magneto coil is ok.









ELECTRONIC IGNITION MODULE CHIP FOR LAWNMOWER LINE TRIMMER RIDE ON MOWERS


Electronic Ignition Module Chip for Lawnmower Line Trimmer Ride on Mowers




www.greenacresmowers.com.au


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

FredM said:


> Sorry, I meant the ignition coil on the left in your photo, not the alternator coil pack on the right, if you are going to be playing around with the electrics, you should go buy yourself a digital multimeter, wouldn't take much for you to learn how to use the basics of the multimeter and you can get reasonably priced ones in the States.
> View attachment 79736
> 
> If you had one of these babies, you could load the coil up and see what the output would be, but in your case the price wouldn't warrant you owning one, a very handy unit to own.
> ...


I think you are missing something, My Tecumseh Motor has SSI (pic below) "No Points" . Both your suggestions replace Points and will Not work with magnets on the Flywheel (pic below.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Little do you know mate about those triggering units, if that little magnet worked the original magneto with a built in SSD, why do you think it wont work an external SSD??, I mentioned for you to test the magneto coil windings for open circuit, if there is no open in the circuit, then there is nothing to stop the external SSD from working.

PS-- they dont hook up to the magnet!!.

PPS-- And those larger internal magnetic only power the alternator circuit, have nothing to do with the ignition side of things.

Be what it may, why do you ask questions if you already know the answers??.


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

FredM said:


> Little do you know mate about those triggering units, if that little magnet worked the original magneto with a built in SSD, why do you think it wont work an external SSD??, I mentioned for you to test the magneto coil windings for open circuit, if there is no open in the circuit, then there is nothing to stop the external SSD from working.
> 
> PS-- they dont hook up to the magnet!!.
> 
> ...


Sorry i re read your suggestion on that "Stens" elect. ign. module chip Information and I must missed the wordings of Yes it does work with Two Magnets on the flywheel (like mine pic #1) above. SORRY MY APOLOGY.
I might be missing or not understanding something here as to your suggestion on using the "Stens/Atom systems", it cuts out the points and only the points and leaves the coil. My motor doesn't have a points and coil system its a SSI Magneto system and yes my Magneto Doesn't through a spark while key on and turning it over (open circuit). 

Again my Apology if I ruffled your feathers in some way.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

mjgord51 said:


> Sorry i re read your suggestion on that "Stens" elect. ign. module chip Information and I must missed the wordings of Yes it does work with Two Magnets on the flywheel (like mine pic #1) above. SORRY MY APOLOGY.
> I might be missing or not understanding something here as to your suggestion on using the "Stens/Atom systems", it cuts out the points and only the points and leaves the coil. My motor doesn't have a points and coil system its a SSI Magneto system and yes my Magneto Doesn't through a spark while key on and turning it over (open circuit).
> 
> Again my Apology if I ruffled your feathers in some way.


All is sweet, you don't have to apologise, I did give you a bit of a push too,
.
The issue is getting your engine running, I had a quick look at the A1 Miller's site, some good info there, so we will bypass the external SSI system that I suggested, -- have you approached A1 Miller's about a ignition system for your engine??, seeing that you have battery power for the starter, why not see if Millers make a battery ignition system for your engine, I don't see why the Kohler model wouldn't fit, would be the end of your ignition troubles, you could always get hold of a car ignition coil if needed, and Petronix seems to be well established in the States.

If the engine is serviceable, then that would be the way to go


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

FredM said:


> Sorry, I meant the ignition coil on the left in your photo, not the alternator coil pack on the right, if you are going to be playing around with the electrics, you should go buy yourself a digital multimeter, wouldn't take much for you to learn how to use the basics of the multimeter and you can get reasonably priced ones in the States.
> View attachment 79736
> 
> If you had one of these babies, you could load the coil up and see what the output would be, but in your case the price wouldn't warrant you owning one, a very handy unit to own.
> ...


The Magneto (left pic) has No Continuity just checked it ( open circuit) but the Charging Coil (right pic) under the flywheel Does have Continuity (closed circuit). So now either I find a Tecumseh's OEM SSI Magneto (610906) at a reasonable price (LOL) or go with one of the three prospects in (post #15) I suggested earlier.
I'll have to start calling them and ask some questions as to what I have that's working will work with there systems kit's .


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

That is why I suggested going battery ignition, car ignition coils are dime a dozen, the A-1 Miller kit comes with all that is required to set your tractor up, the only thing you will have to be precise with is the ignition timing, the trigger magnet attached to the flywheel has to be spot on, it must work because the product is selling.

I should have a look at the install instructions on A-1 Millers site, below the ring gear on your flywheel there appears to be enough room to install the magnet.

Of course the choice is yours in choosing to stay original or to modify, keep us posted.


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

FredM said:


> That is why I suggested going battery ignition, car ignition coils are dime a dozen, the A-1 Miller kit comes with all that is required to set your tractor up, the only thing you will have to be precise with is the ignition timing, the trigger magnet attached to the flywheel has to be spot on, it must work because the product is selling.
> 
> I should have a look at the install instructions on A-1 Millers site, below the ring gear on your flywheel there appears to be enough room to install the magnet.
> 
> Of course the choice is yours in choosing to stay original or to modify, keep us posted.


I'll re install the Alternator Coil Assembly pack and the SSI Magneto and take some pictures to show how the OEM stuff fits and the magnets with the flywheel showing how tight or close the Magneto and flywheel magnets are to each other with a feeler gauge measurements.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

A-1 Miller's - Conventional (Points and Condenser) Ignition Parts and Electronic Ignition Conversion Kits


small engine repairs, kohler, carburetor, carburetor rebuilding, engine rebuild, ignition, ignition trigger kit, garden tractor pulling, cub cadet



gardentractorpullingtips.com





This should take you to the Tecumseh section.

I guess you have read about this ignition set, you would have to check your engine model in the heading list.


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

FredM said:


> A-1 Miller's - Conventional (Points and Condenser) Ignition Parts and Electronic Ignition Conversion Kits
> 
> 
> small engine repairs, kohler, carburetor, carburetor rebuilding, engine rebuild, ignition, ignition trigger kit, garden tractor pulling, cub cadet
> ...


Mine is the model OH140 with motor #'s 143 680012.

PS, I haven't called yet, your "link" reads this is a or for a "Conventional (Points and Condenser)" motors (mines not points & cond equipped) hopefully this will work ether way with or without points & cond.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

mjgord51 said:


> Mine is the model OH140 with motor #'s 143 680012.
> 
> PS, I haven't called yet, your "link" reads this is a or for a "Conventional (Points and Condenser)" motors (mines not points & cond equipped) hopefully this will work ether way with or without points & cond.


You will notice in post #32 I wrote under the web address that this would take you to the Tecumseh section, did you open the web page and check?, this lists a few Tecumseh engine models that the ignition setup will fit, and yes, I know you have SSD ignition and the web page shows the setup A-1 Miller is offering, have a look!!.


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

All is solved now, as this broken down L&G tractor went back to its previous owner as "she" the owners wife didn't like the idea of it being YARD ART as it had way too many problems besides the Magneto problem.

Thanks too all that did respond (except for Bob Driver) for helping me out.
MJ.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)




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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

mjgord51 said:


> All is solved now, as this broken down L&G tractor went back to its previous owner as "she" the owners wife didn't like the idea of it being YARD ART as it had way too many problems besides the Magneto problem.
> 
> Thanks too all that did respond for helping me out.
> MJ.


Let me get this straight.... You bash me all to hell on this Forum for trying to tell you with that SSI Tecumseh engine it was a money pit/POC and not worth screwing with and 10 days later you post _*"this broken down L&G tractor went back to its previous owner"*_?

What about _*"more than one way to skin a cat"*_? What about _"*Why are you here if you don't like giving out advice, *or *"I'll bet you enjoy taking peoples money that are throwing money away on just as old of machines as I have (you know I'm right)"*? _I saw this coming 3 weeks ago, but still made the effort to try to warn you what you were up against (remember bashing _*"Economically Sound Decision"*?_)..... I've never said this to anyone on this Forum, but I absolutely enjoyed watching you fail

_*"Still I see with the mouth bashing"*. _YEP!!! .... The best part is I get to smile the whole time I'm typing this and give a great big thanks to you for making my day by generating a 37 post thread that led to the totally predictable outcome I tried to warn you about with post #3


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## mjgord51 (10 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> Let me get this straight.... You bash me all to hell on this Forum for trying to tell you with that SSI Tecumseh engine it was a money pit/POC and not worth screwing with and 10 days later you post _*"this broken down L&G tractor went back to its previous owner"*_?
> 
> What about _*"more than one way to skin a cat"*_? What about _"*Why are you here if you don't like giving out advice, *or *"I'll bet you enjoy taking peoples money that are throwing money away on just as old of machines as I have (you know I'm right)"*? _I saw this coming 3 weeks ago, but still made the effort to try to warn you what you were up against (remember bashing _*"Economically Sound Decision"*?_)..... I've never said this to anyone on this Forum, but I absolutely enjoyed watching you fail
> 
> _*"Still I see with the mouth bashing"*. _YEP!!! .... The best part is I get to smile the whole time I'm typing this and give a great big thanks to you for making my day by generating a 37 post thread that led to the totally predictable failure I tried to warn you about with post #3


Still with the * * * VERBAL DIARRHEA of the Mouth * * * B*U*L*L *S*H*I*T. Some things never change, this is from your mouth your a " A-Hole"all the way through. Don't forget pushing this thread too post #39 A-O


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

mjgord51 said:


> Still with the * * * VERBAL DIARRHEA of the Mouth * * * B*U*L*L *S*H*I*T. Some things never change, this is from your mouth your a " A-Hole"all the way through. Don't forget pushing this thread too post #39 A-O


OK, "Cat Skinner"....... I readily admit I can be an A-hole, but trying to warn you about the downfalls of trying to restore a SSI Tecumseh engine was not one of those moments. The beneficial outcome of all this is your thread will now live on this Forum for years as a prime example of when a clueless Knucklehead gets into a project *WAY* over his head and not even being able to admit they way over estimated their abilities when they inevitably fail.

I hope this beauty of a thread isn't going to be your last.... I've clicked the "following" button on you just for the entertainment value and I'm anxiously looking forward to your next mechanical adventure


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