# 8N Restoration Project



## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

I am so glad I found this forum. I'm a newbee and the information I've found here is great. I have a 1949 8n that has been sitting for at least 2 years under a shelter. I'm going to try my luck at restoring it. Everything on it is original, no conversions. The tractor was running when it was parked. I drained and cleaned the gas tank. It is still in good shape. I replaced the shut off valve which was gummed up. I installed a new 6V battery. The motor turns over but it would not start. I checked for spark by taking out the spark plug and turning over the motor, no spark. The wiring and plug wires are in bad shape. I am replacing the wiring harness and plug wires along with new spark plugs. Here is my question - should I replace the coil, voltage regulator and the electrical resister? Is there an easy test to check these parts? I am also going to install a distributer rebuild kit. I did check the points and they opening and closing, not burned. Any help is appreciated. Thanks. I will post pictures soon.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Did you clean the points at all? Eaven though they are not burned, they could be dirty, or coroded. I would try cleaning, or replaceing them first and see what happands.


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## John-in-Ga (Sep 22, 2003)

Well hello, shutt24, and a great big welcome to the Tractorforum. You will find plenty of 8n help there. I see Ingersoll444 has already chimed in and I’m sure you know Andy, the owner operator of this board, is a big 8n fan and has experience with restorations.

I will look forward to hearing all about your efforts to get your 8n up and running again. Can’t wait for the pictures. 

First let me say, I’m glad to hear that you have tractor where “Everything on it is original, no conversions.” If I were you, I keep it that way as much as possible. I’m told if the electrical connections are kept clean, bright and tight there will be no need to do a “12 volt conversion”, which is usually one of the first things new 8n owners want to do.

I’m not much of a mechanic but if the plug wires are in sad shape that seems a good place to start. You know, of course, to get the plug wires with wire cores not the modern carbon core type. If it were me, I wouldn’t replace the coil, voltage regulator and the electrical resister or any other part until I could confirm that they are bad. Sometimes you can install a problem while replacing parts. You say it was running when parked under a shelter so there is a good chance most of the components are OK. 

With a 49 8n you should have a front mount distributor which is easy to remove from the tractor in order to do maintenance on it. I’d clean the points, first by running a stiff paper through them, if that failed to clean them, I might lightly file them. 

If you have a good spark after cleaning the points you will have checked the coil, and the electrical resister the easiest and surest way possible. 

Checking the voltage regulator probably needs to wait until you have the tractor running. Then check for an increase in voltage across your battery after starting the motor.

:cpu:


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## DrBailey (Nov 14, 2004)

Hello Shutt24 , and welcome , You have already recieved good advise so , just wanted to welcome you to the forum


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

Thanks for the replies. I have ordered a wiring harness and plug wires(wire inside). Should be here by Friday and will install this weekend. I'll let you all know what happens.


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

Welcome shutt24 :friends: let us know what you find out. Like what was said above check the inside of the cap for corrosion and the points for corrosion.


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## gmmiller1 (Dec 15, 2004)

Welcome to the forum! I'm smack dab in the middle of completely rewiring my 48 8n that's in my icon. One thing I'd definitely check is the coil. Two very common things can happen to it. One is if the key was left on with the points closed the coil is gone. Second and what happens most often is the spiral spring on the bottom of the coil either has burnt the tip of the coil off or its just plain not making contact with the brass cup screw underneath it. Fix it by stretching the spring until you have to just slightly push it down to get the bail to lock.

Personally I'd just plain replace the points. They're cheap and it's good insurance if the tractor been sitting for awhile. If'n you have a digital VOM you can measure the coil from the top terminal to the spring and if it's good it should read around 1.5 ohms.

Again, welcome and I hope your tractor gives you as much entertainment as mine has!


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## Ken N Tx (Sep 20, 2003)

*Welcome*

Welcome Shutt, have fun restoring your N..

You know you are close to the best parts and restoration people in the bussiness..Check them out, Don and Derek are there to help also..(They have an 800 #) Shelby NC

http://www.just8ns.com/


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## Tau44 (Dec 7, 2003)

Welcome to the Forum!

We will help you all we can


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

Things went pretty well this weekend. I got the wiring harness, plug wires and switch installed. I had to order a terminal block and starter relay this morning. I spoke to the folks at Just8ns and they told me I needed a 3 post terminal block and I have a 2 post. I purchased a new ammeter but it is different then the origninal. The original had a coiled wire on the back that a wire ran through, the new one just has a pos and a neg post. Can someone instruct me on how to connect this. I followed the wiring diagram on the N-series.com website. Also on my new switch it has a black wire and a yellow wire, does it matter which one is run to the 1st post on the terminal block and which is run to the bottom(hot) post? As you can tell I'm not good at electrical, but I'm learning. I'm going to try and post the pics I took this week end.


<IMG SRC=http://www.tractorforum.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=76100>


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

Here is a rear view. Is there a way to post multiple pics? I haven't searched old posts on this. I'll do that now.



<IMG SRC=http://www.tractorforum.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=76104>


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## John-in-Ga (Sep 22, 2003)

Shutt24

I’ll take a shot at a couple of your questions until the real experts wakeup/thaw out? What little I know about this is from reading. I have no hands on experience.

Cut the wire going through the coil on your old amp meter and connect the end going to ground (engine block or some other big hunk of metal) to the positive pole of your amp meter. Of cause, the other end will attach to the negative pole of your new amp meter. You did say your tractor was in original configuration? Which has positive pole of your battery is connected to ground. If you get this wrong the only thing that will happen is your new amp meter will read backwards and can be corrected by simply reversing the wires. (Don’t throw your old meter away. There may come a day that you or someone else will want to restore it.)

I can’t answer your question about your new switch. Perhaps someone here will wakeup/thaw out? before long that will have the answer, but I think they are going to want to know which switch you are asking about.

*Keep the wheels chocked and the transmission out of gear until you are sure all your wiring is correct.* 

Your asked “Is there a way to post multiple pics?” I’m going to assume you mean multiple pics uploaded to this site in a single post. The answer is no. You can only upload them one at a time on this site so that pretty much limits you to one picture per post. 

Great pictures you have posted, “sized” well and everything. No reason to change the way you are doing it.


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

You can upload more then one picture per post but not using the Browse button. You have to use a server like photobucket and copy the address to each picture and put them in your post. Just like this. This is what you copy from photobucket or if you use some other then you do it like this and where it shows your host.com you put your address in place of it. But it has to be like the picture below with the lettering. 

<img src=http://www.homepage.mac.com/userosx/.Pictures/host.jpg>

<img src=http://www.tractorforum.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=76104>
<img src=http://www.tractorforum.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=76100>


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## mark777 (Jul 23, 2004)

That is a very nice tractor. The potential for a beautiful restoration. It's refreshing to see one so complete and original. 

Do you plan on working it on your 50 acres? That old gal is going to look good with a rotary cutter on her back. Hope you keep us updated on your progress.

Unfortunately for me, good 8 N's are very rare in my area. I have gone to see 'for sale' N's and they always seem to missing major key components...and the asking price is just too much. I'm not that frugal, but 3 X's the original $1200. for a tractor that doesn't run is a little pricey. 

Regards, Mark


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Nice looking tractor you have there. A good starting point for a resto it looks like.


Sorry I cant help with the elect problems. Never been there myself.


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

I plan to use the tractor on the farm for different things such as cutting the field, working the garden, scraping the driveway and making wildlife food plots. I also have several attachments for it.
We used it a lot in the 80's and early 90's.

I decided to work on the electrical for a while last night and made progress. I finally got my points to fire, and then I got my plugs to fire. I poured a little gas in each cylinder, put the plugs in and cranked it. I have the carb off rebuilding it. The second time it turned over it popped a couple times and then several more times. I should get my other electrical parts and carb kit today.
It's starting to come together. At least I have fire, now I need to get fuel.

I spoke to a friend last night who has a large bead blaster cabinet that I can use. I going to start taking some of the smaller parts over there and start stripping them. I always heard the key to good, lasting paint job is the primer. I guess I'll start my research for the best primer to use.


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

Welcome to the forum schutt24! I'll be following your progress as well. Sounds like you are doing ok. I wish I was able to help in the electrical stuff, but all I know about electricity is that it hurts every time I fool with it. :dazed:


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## DrBailey (Nov 14, 2004)

<IMG SRC=http://www.nseries.com/early8nwire.gif>
I don`t know if Im doing this right , but Maybe it will help.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Great diagram DB. Thanks for posting it.


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

That is the diagram I am using. I am not for sure on the ignition switch to which color wire to attach to the top left post on the terminal block and which color to attach to the bottom post. There is a black wire and a yellow. It may not matter. Thanks.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

for just a two wire ing switch it realy should not matter. I will check out my N tonight, and see if any colors remain. But being a simple on/off switch I dont think it matters


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## DrBailey (Nov 14, 2004)

Shutt24 , I agree with Paul , I don`t think it will matter , On mine , I have the yellow wire on the top , and it`s going to the Batt. cable side of the starter cellenoid. LoL , think I need a spell check here.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

lol It must not matter Don. I just loked at mine and the yellow wire is on the bottom. I still have mine in that garage, what is just outside from where I am typing, so if there is anything else you want me to check just ask.


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## gmmiller1 (Dec 15, 2004)

Here's what happens when you let an Electrical Engineer rewire your tractor! Junction box was made up from an old regulator and just like the regulator is shock mounted with a modified cover to fit. Each wire has crimped and soldered connectors and there is a dedicated ground for each circuit terminating at the - battery terminal to avoid ground loops. Why you might ask??? The next picture shows the back of the dash panel and the resistor arrays. This tractor can support both 6V and 12V coils by simply throwing a switch and has the correct ballast resistors for both. Alternator P1 terminal also has correct diode to protect it and the main + 12 volt line to the light switch has a 15 amp inline mini ATC fuse for protection.

Also removed useless Ammeter and replaced with much more useful Voltmeter so I can actually SEE if the alternator is charging! Guages are also now lit so they can actually be seen at night along with the new lights that were installed and the toggle switches and keyswitch are also lit so they can be easily found at night.

Ok. So maybe we DID go a little overboard but the tractor DID start as soon as the starter button was hit.


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## gmmiller1 (Dec 15, 2004)

Picture 2


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## gmmiller1 (Dec 15, 2004)

Wiring Diagram


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Wow Nice job there. Looks like you have more wires there then the whole years run of tractors used. 

So where's the stero, and amp mounted?


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## gmmiller1 (Dec 15, 2004)

On the bench! CD player through an Altec Lansing computer speaker system with two satellites and a subwoofer. Gotta' have music to wire like this!

Seriously though. I wanted an ultra reliable wiring system that was up to date and easy to test, troubleshoot and replace any bad section easily. Being able to run either 6 or 12 volt coil was a bonus depending on what I could get. TSC only carries 6 volt and New Holland sometimes is out of 12 volt coils.

Also since the rewire my spark output is much better and the engine doesn't run rough cold or misfire anymore.


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

I can see now that this project is going to be a challenge. This is where I am. I got the wiring right, I still need to incorporate the ammeter into the wiring. I rebuilt the carburetor and installed it. I hooked up the gas lines and no leaks. The bowl did fill up, I took out the drain plug to make sure. Now the moment of truth, will it start or not. I cranked it over several times and nothing happened. So I opened the throttle all the way and closed the choke. Finally I got it to hit but it never would start. 
So, I figure there is something still blocking the gas flow in the carb. I took it back off and I'm going to take it a part and soak it again. The compression felt good even though I did not check it. I did decided to go ahead and pull the head, water pump, governor and the intake manifold. They all need stripped and painted. The head looks pretty good, there is a little carbon build up but not bad. I did turn the motor over just to make sure the pistons are moving and the valves are working. Any suggestions on things to look for while the head is off. I am going to clean the head and the top of the pistons and the valves. I will put back together and do a compression test. Thanks for the help.


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## mark777 (Jul 23, 2004)

Maybe check cylinder ridge. If you feel inclined to pull the valves, you may check valves, seats, guides and seals. But if your happy with the compression, it may not be necessary.

Sorry I don't own a 8N, and not because I don't want to, but because I haven't been fortunate enough to find a good one (like YOUR's) .

Mark


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

Take a look at these pictures and give me your opinion.
I have about decided to go ahead and overhaul since I have
it tore down.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/dannyshutt/8N%20Tractor/MVC-141F.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/dannyshutt/8N%20Tractor/MVC-142F.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/dannyshutt/8N%20Tractor/MVC-143F.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/dannyshutt/8N%20Tractor/MVC-144F.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/dannyshutt/8N%20Tractor/MVC-145F.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/dannyshutt/8N%20Tractor/MVC-146F.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/dannyshutt/8N%20Tractor/MVC-147F.jpg">


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

I tell you, if it was me..... 

Your doing a restore, you have it apart THAT far... I would rebuild it. Get it done, and out of the way


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## mark777 (Jul 23, 2004)

IMHO:

Almost always your budget dictates the extent of an overhaul. 

I think I would invest in a 4 1/2" grinder equipped with a knotted wire cup brush, stuff the cylinders full with clean dry rags, and clean-polish every surface you can reach. This will clean the block and head good enough to see any visible signs of cracks.

A micrometer and snap guage will tell you if the cylinder taper warrants a trip to the machine shop. Even hand lapping valves and seats is sometimes all that is needed for true mating surfaces. A good straight edge and feeler guages will also help to eliminate the necessity to re-surface your cylinder head, if it doesn't need it.

Just my humble 2 cents....good luck, Mark


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

Okay, Mark777, I understand some of what you mean. I'm pretty well mechanically minded but sometimes the terminology gets me. The cylinder taper is the sleeve I presume. Can I get the measurements I need with the piston in place or do I need to remove the piston?
Hand lapping - I assume you mean taking a wire wheel and clean those parts. 
I understand the pistons are made of aluminum, will a wire wheel not damage the top of the piston?
Thanks for the help.


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## slipshod (Sep 19, 2003)

*looking at your pictures*

I notice quite a bit of build up in the water jacket. Probably from the years of use. If I had that engine pulled down that far I would go all the way ! It is not that expensive to have the block serviced and you will have a machine that has all its power back and will go for another 60 years. By the way for a guy that claims limited knowledge you are doing a great job.


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## mark777 (Jul 23, 2004)

*rebuild*

Shutt24

As others have suggested, going all the way with the overhaul is really the way to go. A good machine shop will hot tank all your parts first, Then magna-flux (steel) or Zy-Glo (aluminum) all the parts to check for cracks(crank, rods, cam, head and block. 

The machine shop will also mic' the bore: for example let say the standard bore on your engine is 3 1/4" or 3.250", with the pistons removed they use a snap guage that will measure any deviation from the top to the bottom....or lets say 3.250" on the bottom and 3.261" = 0.0011, or 11 thousandths taper. That cyl, or all cylinders can be bored over, or bored out and re-sleeved.

Lapping the valves is done with a paste of abrasive compound between valve seat and valve. Usually done by hand, and even the older machine shop tech's still prefer to do it by hand. It's probably more difficult to put in words, than to actually do the job.

And yes, a steel knotted wire brush will tare up aluminum pistons in a big hurry.

Again, I confess that I know very little about Ford N's...just a little about machining.

You can do a darn good job in your own garage....but not quite as good as a dependable machine shop. So, again, IMHO it's about budget.

Best of luck whichever route you go,

Mark


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

I'm at the point that I need to purchase a shop manual. Is there one out there that covers everything? I saw an IT FO4 on ebay that has 102 pages and another that only had 36 pages. Someone tell me where and what to buy. I want to be able to see diagrams of all the parts and how to sections. Hope I'm not asking for too much.


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

Shutt,
I gotta ask who is the lovely lady in your avatar? Would that be the beautiful Mrs. Shutt? Daughter perhaps? Anyhow, nice smile and a pleasure to look at. Good luck with your Ford:thumbsup:


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

Here are a couple i found on ebay one of them might be what your looking for.

1st one 

2nd one


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

The avatar picture is a Carolina Panther Cheerleader. I pull for the Panthers and thought a pleasant picture to look at would be nice. I'll have to pull for the Eagles on Sunday. I'll have some more pics of the tractor on Monday. I plan on doing some more tear down this weekend.


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## Durwood (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by shutt24 _
> *That is the diagram I am using. I am not for sure on the ignition switch to which color wire to attach to the top left post on the terminal block and which color to attach to the bottom post. There is a black wire and a yellow. It may not matter. Thanks. *


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## Ken N Tx (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by shutt24 _
> *I'm at the point that I need to purchase a shop manual. Is there one out there that covers everything? I saw an IT FO4 on ebay that has 102 pages and another that only had 36 pages. Someone tell me where and what to buy. I want to be able to see diagrams of all the parts and how to sections. Hope I'm not asking for too much. *


I have the Manuals on CD.. They work great for me, you can print out the parts you are working on and take them down to the shop..

http://grogansports.com/satsoft/
:thumbsup:


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## funkyford (Dec 31, 2004)

*manual*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=378&item=4525717745&rd=1

didn't see Ken's post when I posted mine.


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

The one funkyford posted looks like it covers everything


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## Ken N Tx (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jodyand _
> *The one funkyford posted looks like it covers everything *


Its the same CD, only he is also selling them on E Bay..


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

OK i didn't hunt around long enough:duh:


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

Thanks everyone for the tips about the manual. I just purchased the CD. I did some more work this weekend. Not as much as I would like, but I did make progress. Before I do much more I'm going to wait on my CD just to make sure I am doing things correctly.
I tore the steering apart and found that it needs new bearings in the top of the shaft and in the housing about 3/4 the way down the shaft. I also took out the valves and disconnected the motor from the tranny. Going to take the motor to a friend and we are going to go through it. Took off the right fender looks like it needs to be replaced. Almost rusted through at the bracket. Had some difficulty getting some of the bolts off, several looked like pins and I ended up just cutting them off with a grinder. Is there an easier way to get those out?


<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/dannyshutt/8N%20Tractor/MVC-148F.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/dannyshutt/8N%20Tractor/MVC-149F.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/dannyshutt/8N%20Tractor/MVC-150F.jpg">


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## slipshod (Sep 19, 2003)

*Shutt!!!!*

GET THAT BLOCK OUT FROM UNDER THAT AXLE!!!!!!!!!
Very unsafe, I have seen them crumble and you could be wearing a tractor. If you must use cement blocks at least turn them upright and put a piece of 2x6 wood on them. The way you have placed it is the block is extremely weak. Please find some wood blocking or buy some cheap axle stands. You are doing a wonderful job on the Ford and I for one am enjoying watching your progress, so if you get hurt it will slow down the job.


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

The block is coming out tonight! I have another stand to go under there. I just ran out of time to change it out.


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by shutt24 _
> *The avatar picture is a Carolina Panther Cheerleader. I pull for the Panthers and thought a pleasant picture to look at would be nice. I'll have to pull for the Eagles on Sunday. I'll have some more pics of the tractor on Monday. I plan on doing some more tear down this weekend. *


I don't watch football, so apparently I missing a lot. I'm more of a baseball fan, and cheerleaders that looked like that would liven up baseball :thumbsup: 

Slipshod is 100% right about how unsafe using a block is under a jack, especially with the block turned to it's weakest side as you have there. Please be carefull! We all want you to finish your tractor.


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

Thought I would let you all know how things are going. I have pulled the motor and removed everything. The block and the crank are going to the machine shop today for cleaning and checking. The governor has been rebuilt. I removed both axle housings, in process of cleaning all the brake and axle parts. Here is a picture of some of the parts I have cleaned and painted.


<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/dannyshutt/8N%20Tractor/MVC-152F.jpg">


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Looks like you are a week or two ahead of me. 


As foir the dash panel. Any tricks to removing it? I think I have all the bolts off [4 on the steering box] and I know the steering wheel has to come off, but I cant get it to budge. Am I missig something???


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

Make sure you put some penetrating oil around the shaft after you remove the nut. I took a hammer and tapped around the base and it came right off. The manual says you may have to use a puller. I ordered the cd that has all the manuals, if you need a picture, diagram or instructions just let me know. I noticed you asked about getting the sleeves out. The manual says to a small flat screwdriver and cave in the sides of the sleeve. Use it like a chisel. Be careful not to damage the block. I'm going to have the shop mic mine first to see if they need replaced.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

sorry that came out wrong. Not the wheel I cant get off the dash itsself. Anything hiding that holds it on


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

Seems like the battery box has a couple bolts attached to it and you have to disassemble the throttle shaft. There may be a bolt or 2 attached to the steering box.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

I got the battery box off, and those bolts. also the ones that went in to the steering box. I did not remove the throttle stuff yet, so that may be my problem. It looked like it all came out together. 


Does that reinforcement peice come off with the dash??


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

Yes it does. See if these diagrams help.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/dannyshutt/8N%20Tractor/Mvc-154f.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/dannyshutt/8N%20Tractor/MVC-153F.jpg">


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## funkyford (Dec 31, 2004)

how are you coming? The machine shop ok everything?


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## shutt24 (Jan 17, 2005)

Things have been a little slow. I've been a little under the weather for the last 2 weeks. Did not get to take the block to the machine shop yet. Just been doing some cleaning and painting in my basement. I hope to get it there next week. I want to get completely well first. Thanks for asking.


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