# Garden tractor with a PTO?



## RAKe (12 mo ago)

My first entry onto\into this forum is to ask if a knowledgeable individual can tell me of a garden tractor with a PTO. I have no need for a larger farm tractor unless I find an 8N Ford or something similar to restore, but I do have fencing work, et cetera that would be easier with a tractor PTO. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Good Morning RAKe, welcome to the forum.

I have always liked the John Deere 650, 750, and 850 tractors. Compact tractors made for Deere by Yanmar. Vintage late 1970's - 1980's. The thing that I would be concerned about is getting parts. Japanese tractor manufacturers quit making parts for a tractor 20 years after the final year of model production. Attached below is the tractordata sheet on these tractors:



https://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/1/1/112-john-deere-750.html



You can buy an old Ford 8N for less, and still get parts.


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## RAKe (12 mo ago)

Good Morning RAKe, welcome to the forum.

I have always liked the John Deere 650, 750, and 850 tractors. Compact tractors made for Deere by Yanmar. Vintage late 1970's - 1980's. The thing that I would be concerned about is getting parts. Japanese tractor manufacturers quit making parts for a tractor 20 years after the final year of model production. Attached below is the tractordata sheet on these tractors:



https://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/1/1/112-john-deere-750.html



You can buy an old Ford 8N for less, and still get parts.


BigT, thanks for the advice. I used to ride a Yanmar tractor myself to maintain the boss's airport property. Ran well, did the job. But I never knew John Deere tractors were rebadged Yanmars. I have also heard some of the smaller and more recent Fords were Yanmars also. I'll keep that in mind about Japanese parts.

That is one of the strongest points in owning and restoring an 8N -- parts are easy to find. My Uncle John had one when I was a kid, and I've loved them ever since. I wonder if there was ever an 8N grove tractor -- that would be interesting here in Florida if I could find one and somehow manage to climb on it.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Here's an idea you can toy with... Make a Ford 8N LCG (low center of gravity) tractor. He took the front axle (outer sections) from a Ford 2000 LCG tractor. Note the shorter front axle spindles. Smaller diameter wheels.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

I would think 3-point height would be an important thing for you to consider if you are digging post holes. N should be good there. The N's PTO that doesn't disconnect (forget the term) might be a problem for brush cutting if that was also on the menu.


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## RAKe (12 mo ago)

BigT said:


> Here's an idea you can toy with... Make a Ford 8N LCG (low center of gravity) tractor. He took the front axle (outer sections) from a Ford 2000 LCG tractor. Note the shorter front axle spindles. Smaller diameter wheels.
> 
> View attachment 76687


Now THAT is beyond cool! It reminds me of the front end of a mid-to-late1930s Ford coupe. Remember those? Fantastic idea -- a lowered tractor, like a street rod, and easier to mount. Almost one-of-a-kind. And as I recall, the 8N also came with a flathead 4-cylinder -- something else I have always wanted to flirt with. Because I've always been an engine guy, from the little Cox planes and mini-bikes and motorcycles through fast cars in high school and beyond to my working as a jet engine mechanic in the Air Force and racing when off duty. BigT, I am reborn!! What a fantastic idea! Any further info you could give me on this tractor or the processes involved to make it would be invaluable. Of course, my research will begin tonight. Taking a gal out to lunch tomorrow, so she will have to listen to me talk about my plan the whole time. Again, excellent idea, and I thank you.


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## RAKe (12 mo ago)

In a second paragraph, my interest in a PTO would only be (so far) for post hole digging for a fence. With my balance, I do not really trust myself with a manual set of post hole diggers. -- I might also hire a kid I know. Other than that, a PTO would not be necessary, but a 3-point hitch would still work to haul trailers, a harrow, or a tow-seeder. Keep me posted on your thoughts, and I will update you as I learn. Also, where are you? I'm in Marion County, Florida in the north central part of the state. Very rural subtropical scrub, with only sugar sand for soil.


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## Ford5610II (Jun 11, 2020)

Other options for a small tractor are the Farmall Cubs, Allis-Chalmers B, John Deere L and M, and of course the Case V-series. However, the Ford 9n, 2n, 8n, NAA tractors are about the easiest to get on and off of, and they came standard with a 3 point hitch. As noted above, the PTO is controlled by the clutch, so is not "live". This can be a pain if trying to cut heavy brush and shift gears at the same time. The NAA has an overhead valve engine, a 3 point hitch, and a PTO, and so is basically a "modern" tractor (by my definition). All of the above models seem to have readily available aftermarket parts. And all were made in USA.


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## RAKe (12 mo ago)

Ford5610II said:


> Other options for a small tractor are the Farmall Cubs, Allis-Chalmers B, John Deere L and M, and of course the Case V-series. However, the Ford 9n, 2n, 8n, NAA tractors are about the easiest to get on and off of, and they came standard with a 3 point hitch. As noted above, the PTO is controlled by the clutch, so is not "live". This can be a pain if trying to cut heavy brush and shift gears at the same time. The NAA has an overhead valve engine, a 3 point hitch, and a PTO, and so is basically a "modern" tractor (by my definition). All of the above models seem to have readily available aftermarket parts. And all were made in USA.


Thanks, I appreciate your response. Let me address your advice. Regarding choices, I am partial to the 8N, as I used to ride with Uncle John on his in the 1960s. That settled, I could be interested to a minor degree in any of the later models of the smallest Ford tractors, but my property is small and even an 8N is overkill. From what I am learning, I just cannot go wrong with an 8N -- they were well-built with many advancements over the 9N and 2N, parts are easy to find, and they had those fantastic removable cylinder sleeves -- potential problem solved there.

Getting on & off is a factor in that I am a fully mobile disabled veteran with limitations, so no manual post hole digging for me. I might pay a neighborhood kid to do it or buy or rent a PTO attachment. I must learn about those PTO limitations, but in that respect, I might be interested in buying an NAA like you mentioned. Being an engine guy from way back, including Air Force jet engines and drag racing, I've always wanted to learn about flatheads, so I hope to rebuild and creep along with the original 8N motor. But I've also seen one on Tractor Fever with a flathead, fuel-injected Offenhauser -- WOW! Regarding parts, I will restrict myself whenever possible to American-made parts for my American-made tractor. Again, I appreciate your contribution.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

The various industrial tractor, if they include a 3-point and PTO would work good as they are pretty low to the ground. For example, my local Craigslist has a Ford 335 gasser with loader, and it has a 3-point and PTO. I strongly suspect it would be a huge improvement over an N. I was really unimpressed with an N when I was looking for something cheap with a loader and/or 3 point. Most of the smallish tractors are made in Japan or Korea. Tractor Data is a good site that list who built it and where stuff was made. The new stuff is actually more likely to be made in USA than say something from the 80s or 90s.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

BigT said:


> Good Morning RAKe, welcome to the forum.
> 
> I have always liked the John Deere 650, 750, and 850 tractors. Compact tractors made for Deere by Yanmar. Vintage late 1970's - 1980's. The thing that I would be concerned about is getting parts. Japanese tractor manufacturers quit making parts for a tractor 20 years after the final year of model production. Attached below is the tractordata sheet on these tractors:
> 
> ...


Actually, not so true. There is a huge parts network for the JD compact 50, 55, 70 & 90 series Yanmar made machines. It's been the busiest 2 years ever with the parts network.

Now, just because JD has stopped support, the aftermarket in the USA and the Japan market have picked up the slack for the past 20 years. 

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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

RAKe said:


> Thanks, I appreciate your response. Let me address your advice. Regarding choices, I am partial to the 8N, as I used to ride with Uncle John on his in the 1960s. That settled, I could be interested to a minor degree in any of the later models of the smallest Ford tractors, but my property is small and even an 8N is overkill. From what I am learning, I just cannot go wrong with an 8N -- they were well-built with many advancements over the 9N and 2N, parts are easy to find, and they had those fantastic removable cylinder sleeves -- potential problem solved there.
> 
> Getting on & off is a factor in that I am a fully mobile disabled veteran with limitations, so no manual post hole digging for me. I might pay a neighborhood kid to do it or buy or rent a PTO attachment. I must learn about those PTO limitations, but in that respect, I might be interested in buying an NAA like you mentioned. Being an engine guy from way back, including Air Force jet engines and drag racing, I've always wanted to learn about flatheads, so I hope to rebuild and creep along with the original 8N motor. But I've also seen one on Tractor Fever with a flathead, fuel-injected Offenhauser -- WOW! Regarding parts, I will restrict myself whenever possible to American-made parts for my American-made tractor. Again, I appreciate your contribution.


Basically, you live near GA. That's where Yanmar has their NA HQ and manufacturing. UTDA parts and dealer network are all there too for Yanmars, especially the vintage machines. 

Yanmars with PowerShift is like having an automatic. No need to constantly clutch and go and then clutch and stop. 

A YM276 or a YM1720 would be nice to have.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Attached are a series of posts from the YT forum discussing the 8N LCG tractor that I posted a picture of yesterday. He tells what all he did, and where he got the wheels and tires. Keep in mind that wheels and tires can cost a bunch. You can find a newer model Ford LCG tractor and avoid all that. 







Den N Ms pics of my 8N LCG - Yesterday's Tractors


Den here some pics of the 8N LCG I put together about 5 years ago. 2000 LCG front axle outer sections with shorten 8N spindles. Front tires and w



www.yesterdaystractors.com


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## RAKe (12 mo ago)

BigT said:


> Attached are a series of posts from the YT forum discussing the 8N LCG tractor that I posted a picture of yesterday. He tells what all he did, and where he got the wheels and tires. Keep in mind that wheels and tires can cost a bunch. You can find a newer model Ford LCG tractor and avoid all that.


Got it, gathering all info and necessary sources, but photos did not transfer. Excellent idea. It'll take time, but I now have a plan. Thanks


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

RAKe said:


> Thanks, I appreciate your response. Let me address your advice. Regarding choices, I am partial to the 8N, as I used to ride with Uncle John on his in the 1960s. That settled, I could be interested to a minor degree in any of the later models of the smallest Ford tractors, but my property is small and even an 8N is overkill. From what I am learning, I just cannot go wrong with an 8N -- they were well-built with many advancements over the 9N and 2N, parts are easy to find, and they had those fantastic removable cylinder sleeves -- potential problem solved there.
> 
> Getting on & off is a factor in that I am a fully mobile disabled veteran with limitations, so no manual post hole digging for me. I might pay a neighborhood kid to do it or buy or rent a PTO attachment. I must learn about those PTO limitations, but in that respect, I might be interested in buying an NAA like you mentioned. Being an engine guy from way back, including Air Force jet engines and drag racing, I've always wanted to learn about flatheads, so I hope to rebuild and creep along with the original 8N motor. But I've also seen one on Tractor Fever with a flathead, fuel-injected Offenhauser -- WOW! Regarding parts, I will restrict myself whenever possible to American-made parts for my American-made tractor. Again, I appreciate your contribution.


_"But I've also seen one on Tractor Fever with a flathead, fuel-injected Offenhauser "_

Please forgive me, I really hate it when people get all anal on this forum, but ...... Offenhausers were never flatheads. They were twin overhead cam, four-cylinders, four-valve-per-cylinder,15:1 compression ratio. I grew up in Indianapolis and they were everywhere... The older Indy car Offys (50's-60's roadsters) were 252 Cu in. When they went to turbos at Indianapolis (1968), they dropped them to 159 Cu in. Those kicked out 1,000HP, with 44psi of boost pressure, and they were pushing a 1,650LBS car (driver & fuel included). Sorry for the tirade, but the Offy is my favorite engine of all time.


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## RAKe (12 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> _"But I've also seen one on Tractor Fever with a flathead, fuel-injected Offenhauser "_
> 
> Please forgive me, I really hate it when people get all anal on this forum, but ...... Offenhausers were never flatheads. They were twin overhead cam, four-cylinders, four-valve-per-cylinder,15:1 compression ratio. I grew up in Indianapolis and they were everywhere... The older Indy car Offys (50's-60's roadsters) were 252 Cu in. When they went to turbos at Indianapolis (1968), they dropped them to 159 Cu in. Those kicked out 1,000HP, with 44psi of boost pressure, and they were pushing a 1,650LBS car (driver & fuel included). Sorry for the tirade, but the Offy is my favorite engine of all time.
> 
> View attachment 76726


Mr. Driver, I appreciate your response, and come to think of it, you might be right. The cylinder head design in the photo resembles the famous Ford flathead and it has the Offenhauser company name stamped on the cover, but it might actually be something else. Please forgive my mistake.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

RAKe said:


> Mr. Driver, I appreciate your response, and come to think of it, you might be right. The cylinder head design in the photo resembles the famous Ford flathead and it has the Offenhauser company name stamped on the cover, but it might actually be something else. Please forgive my mistake.


Sorry to hijack a piece of your thread.... Offy was my favorite engine, but my all time favorite lawn tractors are the 80's Yanmars. Probably smaller than what you might want, but they are awesome little tractors. Took me 5 years to talk my Buddy into selling me his. It's only a GT14, but I wouldn't sell for any amount of $$$. Don't laugh at the bass boat seat, it's actually really comfortable....


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

Offenhauser made/makes flat-head heads as well


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Groo said:


> Offenhauser made/makes flat-head heads as well


You are correct, Offenhauser is/has been in the aftermarket business for years, intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, heads, valve covers , etc...... Not to be remotely confused with them actually manufacturing a complete flat head engine. Bolting a set of valve covers, intakes manifolds, exhaust manifolds, or heads that has "Offenhauser" stamped on them does not make it a legendary Offenhauser Indy car engine. If that was considered the case, there were some really bad ass Motorcraft and FoMoCo engines out there (that's what it says on the red, or blue box)

What RAKe saw probably was a set of after market Offenhauser heads, but it wasn't a flat head Offenhauser engine, they never existed. The name Offenhauser and their famous engine designs were sold to Louis Meyer and Dale Drake in 1946. The engines that dominated the Indy 500 for years were actually called Meyer-Drake Offenhausers.

This is an Offenhauser *ENGINE*









These are aftermarket Offenhauser heads


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## RAKe (12 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> You are correct, Offenhauser is/has been in the aftermarket business for years, intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, heads, valve covers , etc...... Not to be remotely confused with them actually manufacturing a complete flat head engine. Bolting a set of valve covers, intakes manifolds, exhaust manifolds, or heads that has "Offenhauser" stamped on them does not make it a legendary Offenhauser Indy car engine. If that was considered the case, there were some really bad ass Motorcraft and FoMoCo engines out there (that's what it says on the red, or blue box)
> 
> What RAKe saw probably was a set of after market Offenhauser heads, but it wasn't a flat head Offenhauser engine, they never existed. The name Offenhauser and their famous engine designs were sold to Louis Meyer and Dale Drake in 1946. The engines that dominated the Indy 500 for years were actually called Meyer-Drake Offenhausers.
> 
> ...


Mr. Driver, my experience with Offenhauser is limited to my primary school reading of Indy car racing, but I do remember they were at the forefront there. The head design I viewed in that photo could very well been a set of Offenhauser heads on another manufacturer's engine. I have but a small fraction of your experience\interest with them. I just know what I viewed.

About your mower, I've owned a pair of diesel pickups, and I loved those engines -- one International and one Cummins. I always keep an eye out for another opportunity to own another one, even in a mower. That seat looks pretty sharp, also.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

RAKe said:


> Mr. Driver, my experience with Offenhauser is limited to my primary school reading of Indy car racing, but I do remember they were at the forefront there. The head design I viewed in that photo could very well been a set of Offenhauser heads on another manufacturer's engine. I have but a small fraction of your experience\interest with them. I just know what I viewed.
> 
> About your mower, I've owned a pair of diesel pickups, and I loved those engines -- one International and one Cummins. I always keep an eye out for another opportunity to own another one, even in a mower. That seat looks pretty sharp, also.


Northern FL has a few CL ads for diesel 3PT compact tractors.









Yanmar 2210 - farm & garden - by owner - sale


1978 2 WD. I have all new pistons liners and gaskets. The fuel injection pump and injectors have been serviced by Roy’s Diesel in Jax. FL. Cylinder head has new valve fused seals and have been...



staugustine.craigslist.org













Yanmar Tractor YM276 - farm & garden - by owner - sale


Yanmar Diesel Tractor YM276 3 cyl diesel Shuttle shift transmission Front weights, Runs good $5200 Black Creek Tractor 2779 Blanding Blvd Middleburg Fl 32068 904-545-454one



jacksonville.craigslist.org


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## RAKe (12 mo ago)

bmaverick said:


> Northern FL has a few CL ads for diesel 3PT compact tractors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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