# Shingle, or Metal?



## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

What do you think is the better of the 2 for a new roof? We are fixing to get ours replaced from the recent storm/ tornado, and I have to decide metal roof, or 5 tab shingle roof.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

It's a matter of opinion, and there are all sorts of myths out there, about the evils of one or the other, but the bottom line is which do you prefer the looks of. Myself, I prefer metal as I believe it's a better product in numerous ways which I could detail, but I'll skip that unless you're really interested!


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

tractor beam said:


> It's a matter of opinion, and there are all sorts of myths out there, about the evils of one or the other, but the bottom line is which do you prefer the looks of. Myself, I prefer metal as I believe it's a better product in numerous ways which I could detail, but I'll skip that unless you're really interested!




I am? I have done a little research on the metal, and found a few studies about how the metal is supposed to be 25 to 30% cooler than asphalt shingles?


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

This is the type that is mostly used in this area. Corrugated metal.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

wjjones said:


> I am? I have done a little research on the metal, and found a few studies about how the metal is supposed to be 25 to 30% cooler than asphalt shingles?


All depends on the color, but it is much lighter on your rafters / trusses, it survives windstorms better than comp, and if ever you need to get on your roof on a hot day, there's no need to worry about tearing the gravel off your metal!


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

wjjones said:


> This is the type that is mostly used in this area. Corrugated metal sorry that link was way to long.
> 
> Yes, if I was doing metal, I'd use the super span or classic rib profiles, which this looks a bit different, but simular. Are you installing it or are you having it installed? Will you be replacing comp or metal that was on the existing roof deck?


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

tractor beam said:


> Yes, if I was doing metal, I'd use the super span or classic rib profiles, which this looks a bit different, but simular. Are you installing it or are you having it installed? Will you be replacing comp or metal that was on the existing roof deck?




We are having it installed I could but would have to take time off work, and recruit some help. It has asphalt 3 tab shingles on it now (whats left of them) I wanted to try to match it with the weathered wood color of the shingles that are there now. I am not sure how many different colors they can get the metal in though?


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Well, I've done both, and I had a better go of the steel roofing myself. Some things to consider are...
Are you doing it yourself?
Have you done it before? What building is it going on?
What is the pitch of the roof?

Those are some of the things to think about. 
My garage and barn are both self clearing, as well as my house. They all match, that's one of the reasons I chose steel. The down side, is that the ceiling in the house is vaulted, and the bedroom is a noisey place when the rain is coming down, whereas the horses and the cars haven't complained yet!!


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

wjjones said:


> We are having it installed I could but would have to take time off work, and recruit some help. It has asphalt 3 tab shingles on it now (whats left of them) I wanted to try to match it with the weathered wood color of the shingles that are there now. I am not sure how many different colors they can get the metal in though?


Not for certain on this, but I believe you can have any color you like, dialed up. By the way.... I've installed roof systems before, that were rated to withstand 130 mile per hour winds, and the roofs themselves had no exposed fasteners.


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

tractor beam said:


> Not for certain on this, but I believe you can have any color you like, dialed up. By the way.... I've installed roof systems before, that were rated to withstand 130 mile per hour winds, and the roofs themselves had no exposed fasteners.




Yep they gaurantee it to 140 mph winds it would only be a couple 100$ difference between it, and shingles. It has a 40 year full warranty, and then pro-rated after that.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

wjjones said:


> Yep they gaurantee it to 140 mph winds it would only be a couple 100$ difference between it, and shingles. It has a 40 year full warranty, and then pro-rated after that.


You've got to be sure they stand behind the coating too. Yup! Properly installed, the only way metal will blow off, is with your roof deck still attached!


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## ben70b (Aug 29, 2012)

I install both, I heavily favor steel myself, for a few dollars more you can get lifetime warranty steel, then u are looking at one and done. Never roof it again. I know for sure you can get any color u can imagine. Make sure not to get the cheapest steel you can find, it will b a lot thinner. The stud I install is 26 gauge steel, good and durable against hail too. I won't put shingles on anything of mine, but I live in the country and deal with wind. A lot of people don't like the look of steel but I think It is clean. When you inquire about Steel ask about noise deadening insulation and those options too


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

ben70b said:


> I install both, I heavily favor steel myself


All it takes is a good ole country comp tear off:lmao: and you'll never do comp on your own house. Unless you like shovels, sweat, lots of heavy lifting and the added fun of pulling hundreds and hundreds of staples or nails! Want to tear off a metal roof, all you need is a screw gun!


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

That looks like a very good product TB is this the right one?

http://www.soprema.us/roofing-membranes.aspx


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

Had our roof replaced this past summer....went from 30 year shingles that didn't make it 12 years to a steel roof. Some of the things you have to consider in snow country is where the eaves are in relation to doors and walkways, because when the roof releases its snowload you end up with a boatload of snow in a hurry. You don't want to be walking up your sidewalk when that happens. Fortunatley I have entrances located on gable ends that I can use in the winter.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

wjjones said:


> That looks like a very good product TB is this the right one?
> 
> http://www.soprema.us/roofing-membranes.aspx


Correct company. The product is a vinyl faced fully adhered material that comes in a roll in varying widths. Very simular to Ice shield minus the granulations.


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

tractor beam said:


> Correct company. The product is a vinyl faced fully adhered material that comes in a roll in varying widths. Very simular to Ice shield minus the granulations.




It looks like a good product, and every bit of weather proofing I can get will help.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

wjjones said:


> It looks like a good product, and every bit of weather proofing I can get will help.


Problem is, when you use staples to put down felt, and I recommend 5/16 inch staples anyway, is that when you're going gangbusters with a slap hammer, invarably you leave staples partially sticking out, which can at the very least.... be seen making a bump under your metal, and especially with the thinner 29 guage metals, can poke a hole if you happen to get a lot of weight on the roofing. Best policy is the least amount of staples, go slow and be sure each staple holding down your felt or soprema, is fully flat. I like the soprema because it is in fact a fully adhered product. Might need a few staples if it's cold out, but it'll stick to your roof deck basically.


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## Ed Hill (Jul 22, 2009)

I had a standing seam metal roof on a house I owned in Massachusetts. You can get most any color you can imagine. There are no exposed fasteners. You can have the ridge vented, with a cap to allow heat out.
My barn here in Vermont has a screwed down metal roof which seems to work OK. Not as many colors to choose from. If money is no object, I would prefer the standing seam roof as the esposed screws worry me a bit.


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

We priced both the corrugated is a little over $6000, and the standing seam is a little over $19,000.


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## ben70b (Aug 29, 2012)

U can install ridge vent on coragated steel or ribbed steel roofs as well, we build several pole barns a year and the ones that get Finnished on the inside get vented ridge cap


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

ben70b said:


> U can install ridge vent on coragated steel or ribbed steel roofs as well, we build several pole barns a year and the ones that get Finnished on the inside get vented ridge cap




Yep thats what he is going back with is a vented ridge if we do metal, and an extra vent if we go with shingles. I cant decide which to go with though.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

wjjones said:


> We priced both the corrugated is a little over $6000, and the standing seam is a little over $19,000.


For snaplock? That doesn't sound right to me. I know it's more, but that much more? Something wrong here.


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## RaZorBackFan (Feb 14, 2013)

I agree with a lot of the posts . 20 yrs in the metal building business I will tell you that if you decide to roof over decking, shingles or slat your roof .with or without rain ice shield . No matter which application you go with your screws will back out once the wood under neath starts drawing back up around the screw. It will run them backwards over time And push them out some. If I where to go with metal I wouldn't use any concealed fastener panel" standing seam". You won't notice your screws are backing out if you cannot see them. And your roof system will be compromised undetected . I would use a purlin Bering maxi-rib panel and do an occasional walk over. And I would recommend slating and pre drilling your sheets center of your slats and laying a rain/ ice shield or other vapor barrier" just in case"..


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

RaZorBackFan said:


> I agree with a lot of the posts . 20 yrs in the metal building business I will tell you that if you decide to roof over decking, shingles or slat your roof .with or without rain ice shield . No matter which application you go with your screws will back out once the wood under neath starts drawing back up around the screw. It will run them backwards over time And push them out some. If I where to go with metal I wouldn't use any concealed fastener panel" standing seam". You won't notice your screws are backing out if you cannot see them. And your roof system will be compromised undetected . I would use a purlin Bering maxi-rib panel and do an occasional walk over. And I would recommend slating and pre drilling your sheets center of your slats and laying a rain/ ice shield or other vapor barrier" just in case"..


 WOAH!! Not so fast! First off, with a concealed fastener system, you're supposed to leave the screws loose, so the metal can float. Products like snap lock for instance, have slots so the metal can expand and shrink. The reason the screws back out, is because of the expansion of the metal on a screw that's cranked down tight. It works the screw back and forth , and loosens it in the wood. . When you have slots, and the screws are left loose, just like applying steel or vinyl siding, it's impossible for the screws or nails to come out, or even more important... leak. Even if the screws were to come out, which they simply won't, the screws will hit the back of the adjoining panel and stop. It's a bullet proof system, and one of the reasons it's much more expensive than standard metal roofing systems.


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## RaZorBackFan (Feb 14, 2013)

tractor beam said:


> WOAH!! Not so fast! First off, with a concealed fastener system, you're supposed to leave the screws loose, so the metal can float. Products like snap lock for instance, have slots so the metal can expand and shrink. The reason the screws back out, is because of the expansion of the metal on a screw that's cranked down tight. It works the screw back and forth , and loosens it in the wood. . When you have slots, and the screws are left loose, just like applying steel or vinyl siding, it's impossible for the screws or nails to come out, or even more important... leak. Even if the screws were to come out, which they simply won't, the screws will hit the back of the adjoining panel and stop. It's a bullet proof system, and one of the reasons it's much more expensive than standard metal roofing systems.


I have never been told in any MBCI class that I have taken to leave a screw loose anywhere.. Ever here the phrase " must have a screw loose"? I think that's a universal term for " ain't right"..
Only screw that doesn't tighten all the way up is a shouldered screw on a floating roof system to allow the roof to shift. And you don't use those to connect a clip panel. It's for floating rake z. Clips on a concealed fastener system are measured from purlin to roof high and not meant to float any higher that that. Depending on thermal barrier and insulation thickness. If the go with a high standing or low profile .. I've seen butler make a company take roof off of a Walmart for loose clip screws . I don't know of any roofing manufacturer around here with a system where you don't tighten screws..


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

RaZorBackFan said:


> .. Ever here the phrase " must have a screw loose"? I think that's a universal term for " ain't right"


Perhaps you need to get out more often... I think we might possibly be talking about the same thing here but just in case....... The real enemy of long length metal roofing, is expansion of the metal itself, not the wood beneath, as you mention. All one has to do is get up on a metal roof on a warm day with some cloud cover. The clouds cover the sun up, and you can here the metal ticking away, as it shrinks. The sun comes out from behind the clouds, and the metal starts ticking away, audibly, as it expands. It's an unmistakable sound! Well, it's that moving metal, that works your screws loos on conventional metal roofing. In standing seam roofs however, the fastener or clip is hidden, whether it's a screwed down clip, or a fastener in the slotted edge of some profiles, and as such, is not exposed to the elements and will allow the metal to move freely, and you don't have to check up on the fasteners ever, because they simply do not come out. Let me put it this way..... In 25 plus years of roofing, I've never encountered a screw working its way out, unless in such an application as a pre engineered steel building, where you have steel purlins that the screw missed at application, but that's a bad installation in that case. I've been installing roofs since 1984. Most of my experience comes from metal, exclusively, and I've even worked for outfits such as Cobra Roofing and G&M industrial roofing as an on call repair specialist. So in addition to installation on everything from The Grand Coulee hospital, Kaiser Aluminum in Spokane Washington, The Port of Pasco, Cominco Tek mine in Metaline Falls, and countless other projects, I've also chased down leaks in roof systems for numerous years. I've built pre engineered buildings as airplane hangers and installed "fully" floating roof systems and attended many classes myself on roofing applications and building envelopes. In other words, "Been there, done that!" But to further illistrate my point, and to better explain myself, please click http://www.metalroofingsource.com/absolute-standing-seam-roofing-instructions.pdf and look at the highlighted statement at the bottom of page 6.......... It says..... Center screw in slot and do not tighten the screw, to allow for expansion and contaction of the metal.  I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but If ever you've hung vinyl or steel siding, which also has a hidden fastener, you never ever ever nail or screw it tighly, as you'll get buckling of the material when it expands. The same applies to certain metal products such as snap lock systems, because there are no ribs in the middle of the panals, so you'll get oil canning. My point is that the standing seam is a better product than standard metal roofing, where, in 25 years, you'll be up on your roof, replacing screws, because the neoprene washers have long turned to dust, (I can show you pictures) or spending each year, up on the roof, retorqueing screws that have worked out from the expansion of your metal. With standing seam, there is no seal to worry about. You actually use regular washerless screws secure standard standing seam panals. Some systems use clips, but the overall premise here is that you have to allow for expansion. I've rolled 130 foot lengths of standing seam metal............ Google Earth the Hayden lake Amory...... But you'll never see lengths like that, of standard corrugated metal. The screws would pull out on the first partly sunny day in Spring. This is why manufactures of standard corrugated metal, advise using splices in long roof lengths to account for that expansion.


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## RaZorBackFan (Feb 14, 2013)

I understand your argument completely. 

I roofed a lot myself.. And yes all types 
Styles, manufactures on many applications. And 239 ft roll formed " on site" architectural panels over a dome coliseum 1 roll of flat stock at a time and crazy stuff like that. But I roofed a house not long ago using a exposed fastener on wood. OK at the bottom where your mastic goes on the eve" and if you have ever run mastic in the summer and run screws through it once its down its a son of a gun to pull up. The guys house I roofed is a friend of mine and he had called and told me he had some leaks. I thought to myself has to be in the ridge cap . Your roof is solid ..my brother and a couple his hands went back and put the ridge cap on later cuz I was busy so me not being there it was obvious to me that that's where the problem was. So I take a ladder and climb up there and the first thing I see on the eve is screws sticking up ..some as high as 3/4 of an inch .that metal sheet didnt expand and contract or anything right there to the point to raise those screws And I assure you they were tight..this was over a short period of time on a freshly built home. Wood will swell and squeeze a screw enuff to turn it. Relative humidity swells the wood pushing against it hard enough on to make the the threads turn.. I ASSURE YOU.

But I enjoy talkin about the subject .. In amongst debates are lessons to be learned ..


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## RaZorBackFan (Feb 14, 2013)

And.. I've been to a lot of classes . Manufacturers and architects don't see a lot of the things we see in the field.. I've stood up in d loc class in the valley/ hip portion and said your crazy . And explained myself and he said although I agree 100% in order to pass our inspection it has to be done this way.. And he liked to argue let me tell ya ! Lol . So te lling me thats right.. you are right ! tells me there system wasn't bomb proof .. Hell it wasnt even water proof for that matter.. So they don't know everything.. But thanks for the links .


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

RaZorBackFan said:


> I do agree. But all woods have.A Moisture cycle . Drying and dampening. Causing the wood to expand and contract. A nail hole will just loosin up causing the nail to push straight up and out of loose hole and u can pull it out with pliers. a screw will do pretty much the same thing. But how will you be able to tell under a concealed faster panel until your 88 mph wind load is compromised from the loosing of screws? Clean it up outa the yard after a thunderstorm i guess


With nails you're absolutely correct in a sense and that's the result of wood being totally soaked as in being rained on for two weeks straight, then drying out, such as a wooden deck, or fence boards on a fence, not from humidity, especially with plywood or OSB, which are extremely stable products. Think about it for a moment..... If the wood under your metal is so subject to humidity, all the sheathing nails would be popping out of your plywood roof deck along with the metal roofing screws. Right? This would be evident with every single roof tear off, because you'd have to go through and refasten most if not all of the nails in the plywood. I've never had to redrive a single sheathing nail ay tear off. Have you? Applying your theory about the screws popping out on account of moisture....... Why don't you see it with trex decking? Wouldn't the screws too, be working their way out of the joist below? You never hear of screws popping up out of decking material. Why do you suppose that whenever a concealed roofing system is utilized, there's either slots for the screws, or clips are employed that do not fully secure the metal edge down, but instead, allow the metal to move back and forth? Why do you suppose that fully floating roof systems exist in the first place? I'd sure think that if standing seam roofs were as problematic as standard exposed fastener roofs, then why are they getting more and more popular, despite the higher costs? I included a couple links that explain the most common reason roofing screws will work their way out. Check out the number one reason....... http://www.ehow.com/info_12114167_screws-work-loose-metal-roof.html Check out post number 4 at this link.... http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/metal-roof-screws-leaking-56677/ My buddy Walt, will likely go with comp because it's straight up the cheapest way to go, and offers durable results at the same time. He's pretty darn cheap you know!:lmao:


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

Walt, the comp is going to be cheaper no doubt, but if I were you, I'd pony up and just put some used lumber wraps on there!:lmao:


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## RaZorBackFan (Feb 14, 2013)

I do agree. But all woods have.A Moisture cycle . Drying and dampening. Causing the wood to expand and contract. A nail hole will just loosin up causing the nail to push straight up and out of loose hole and u can pull it out with pliers. a screw will do pretty much the same thing. But how will you be able to tell under a concealed faster panel until your 88 mph wind load is compromised from the loosing of screws? Clean it up outa the yard after a thunderstorm i guess?  

anyway, The thread is a debate on which way this fella should go with his roofing system.. Maybe we should design him one.. Lol

I say 1 inch high medium gauge hat channel right over the existing. Attached with 3 inch screws to his rAfters spaced ever 4 ft filled between with 1 inch styrofoam and that 16" panel that has no high on it. Ya know the one that has the snap on cap to cover the highs? So That we he doesn't need a seamer.. I'd buy it! 
Might remove the shingles and put down a rain ice shield to decrease the load on his rafters. 
What's your opinion?


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

RaZorBackFan said:


> What's your opinion?


 Well, it's Saturday evening and I'm mellowing out..... Jack Daniels, straight up!


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## RaZorBackFan (Feb 14, 2013)

tractor beam said:


> Well, it's Saturday evening and I'm mellowing out..... Jack Daniels, straight up!


Not that there's anything wrong with that buddy!
I do love some jack..


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

tractor beam said:


> With nails you're absolutely correct in a sense and that's the result of wood being totally soaked as in being rained on for two weeks straight, then drying out, such as a wooden deck, or fence boards on a fence, not from humidity, especially with plywood or OSB, which are extremely stable products. Think about it for a moment..... If the wood under your metal is so subject to humidity, all the sheathing nails would be popping out of your plywood roof deck along with the metal roofing screws. Right? This would be evident with every single roof tear off, because you'd have to go through and refasten most if not all of the nails in the plywood. I've never had to redrive a single sheathing nail ay tear off. Have you? Applying your theory about the screws popping out on account of moisture....... Why don't you see it with trex decking? Wouldn't the screws too, be working their way out of the joist below? You never hear of screws popping up out of decking material. Why do you suppose that whenever a concealed roofing system is utilized, there's either slots for the screws, or clips are employed that do not fully secure the metal edge down, but instead, allow the metal to move back and forth? Why do you suppose that fully floating roof systems exist in the first place? I'd sure think that if standing seam roofs were as problematic as standard exposed fastener roofs, then why are they getting more and more popular, despite the higher costs? I included a couple links that explain the most common reason roofing screws will work their way out. Check out the number one reason....... http://www.ehow.com/info_12114167_screws-work-loose-metal-roof.html Check out post number 4 at this link.... http://www.diychatroom.com/f9/metal-roof-screws-leaking-56677/ My buddy Walt, will likely go with comp because it's straight up the cheapest way to go, and offers durable results at the same time. He's pretty darn cheap you know!:lmao:




Yep, and out voted because the wife wants the 5 tab GAF timberline life time shingles. Its really not about the cost its because the color cant be matched on metal without a special order. That is why the standing seam was going to cost alot more, and it was the kind you run the crimping roller down to close the seam. The corrugated color would be closer but I dont really care for the corrugated exposed screw thing. Go to www.gaf.com and check them out.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

wjjones said:


> Yep, and out voted because the wife wants the 5 tab GAF timberline life time shingles. Its really not about the cost its because the color cant be matched on metal without a special order. That is why the standing seam was going to cost alot more, and it was the kind you run the crimping roller down to close the seam. The corrugated color would be closer but I dont really care for the corrugated exposed screw thing. Go to www.gaf.com and check them out.


I'm sorry.........:lmao: No, if it's the type that needs to be seamed, it's 26 guage or heavier and expensive. The snap lock is cheaper, but usually, still out of reach for most folks unless you're a surgeon or something like that........


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

GAF Timberline Lifetime Architectural Roofing Shingles Weathered Wood is the color, or style.


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

tractor beam said:


> I'm sorry.........:lmao: No, if it's the type that needs to be seamed, it's 26 guage or heavier and expensive. The snap lock is cheaper, but usually, still out of reach for most folks unless you're a surgeon or something like that........




Well your a Doctor now so why dont you loan me some $$ until my horse comes in.:lmao:...:lmao:.... I think I just prefer shingles. Did you check out their link I posted?


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

wjjones said:


> Well your a Doctor now so why dont you loan me some $$ until my horse comes in.:lmao:...:lmao:.... I think I just prefer shingles. Did you check out their link I posted?


I'm an unemployed doctor....... Long story. Anyways, Yes, I came, I looked, I liked. It'll serve you just fine. I'm trying to help you feel better about your decision. Working?:lmao:


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## oldguychuck (Oct 12, 2012)

*tin roofs*

I have a number of tin roofs on our property that I have put on over the years. While there are some good posts, nobody talks much about "over the years".

I walk my roofs, trying to do a couple per year, and check for damage and loose screws. I remove a loose screw, and using a tube of sealer, put the screw back in. I will easily replace the screw if it looks like I should. I might use, say, a half dozen screws per year. One reason might be we go from highs of +25 ish to lows of - 30 over the course of the year and I think this slowly works the wood strapping (2 x 4 ).

Because of our snow load - up to 3' per winter, I built our house to 100lb loading. This has worked fine over the last 31 years. We do have a bird's nest back porch roof, and if we start getting warm weather and rain in the early spring, the ice and snow will bunch up in the valley. The first year for this, the loading started separating the bird's nest roof from the main roof right at the valley, so I had to get up and shovel it all off. In the later spring, I took off enough tin to re-enforce the vallley to probably about a 300 lb snow load. Been fine ever since, but I keep looking.

Glad to answer questions

Old Guy Chuck


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

tractor beam said:


> I'm an unemployed doctor....... Long story. Anyways, Yes, I came, I looked, I liked. It'll serve you just fine. I'm trying to help you feel better about your decision. Working?:lmao:




Yep.. I have a few neighbors that have have the metal both corrugated, and or standing seam. I will wait until they get the insurance adjusting done, and then decide for sure which roof to go with so that buys me a couple of weeks to decide.


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