# Navistar suspends diesel engine production; says Ford not honoring terms



## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

This is not a good sign for Ford. I have never been a Powerstroke fan but the trucks have been what carried Ford. This will really cause a train wreck in Fords truck sales if this is a long term or permanent thing. I think Ford makes a good truck but their engine and power train could be better. 

Navistar suspends diesel engine production; says Ford not honoring terms 

Ford Motor Co. said Monday morning that a decision by key supplier Navistar International Corp. will not disrupt production of SuperDuty pickups "in the near term." However, the automaker would not say how long it could keep its truck lines running if the recalcitrant vendor holds out.

Navistar announced Monday that it has halted production of the Power Stroke diesel engine it makes for Ford because of an ongoing contract dispute. The Warrenville, Ill.-based engine manufacturer is the exclusive diesel engine supplier for Ford's heavy duty pickup trucks.

In a statement today, Navistar said it "pays its suppliers and employees under contract terms and that it expects Ford to honor the terms of its agreement."

But Ford said Navistar is the one violating that contract.

"Ford has always honored the agreement and will continue to do so in the future," said Ford spokesman Tom Hoyt. "We have been working very closely with Navistar for many months to resolve these contract issues."

In January, Ford sued Navistar, saying the engine maker was not complying with warranty cost-sharing agreements and that it had unjustifiably raised prices on its products. The suit said at the time that Navistar had threatened to cut off shipment if Ford did not pay the new prices for its engines.

Navistar said it will stop making the 6.4-litre Power Stroke at its Indianapolis and Huntsville, Ala. factories, but added that the Huntsville plant will continue production for other customers.

Any disruption of SuperDuty production would be disastrous for Ford. The struggling automaker just launched a redesigned SuperDuty line, and the big trucks are among the most popular and profitable vehicles it sells.

It is not the first time problems with a supplier have threatened an important new vehicle. Last fall, bankrupt Collins&Aikman Corp. briefly suspended parts shipments to Ford's factory in Hermosillo, Mexico, halting production of the Ford Fusion.


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

Sounds like corporate blackmail to me!

I have never owned any other trucks than those made by Ford with the exception of a Dodge one ton stake bed X (it was terrible)!!

My present pickup is a F150 (1991) w/57000 miles and have been thinking about repainting it as I will never get rid of it, Fords paint jobs are not all that great and it has been outside all of these years and is faded but the engine and body are as good as new!

Now since I bought my GF a little Toyota SR5 Tacoma a few months back and have driven it a bit on a trip or two, I promised to go test drive Toyota's new full size Tundra Pickup this spring!! 

Might just get more than interested in this! It's going to big hit in the American truck market with-out-a-doubt!!


2007 Full Size Tundra Pickup Link 

Dean


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## Lamar Holland (Dec 28, 2005)

I don't feel sorry for Ford. Why is it these 6.0 motors in IH school busses don't have the problems Ford has., Simple answer, IH doesn't use computers to push the horse power/ torque ratings to Oh my God and the needed pressures to obtain those high numbers, Far as I'm concerned, Ford better design a better computer program.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

This could be a blessing in disguise for Ford. They already offer the Cummins and Caterpillar diesel in the larger trucks. Both would make a MUCH better alternative to the Powerstroke. The Powerstroke engine was what kept me from buying a Ford truck. If it would have been offered with the Cummins or Cat engine; I would be driving a Ford truck.


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## Lamar Holland (Dec 28, 2005)

I highly doubt you will see the 6.7 Cummins in a Ford. Don't forget, Ford in 81 had 8% of Cummins and that was disastrous. Good thing Ford didn't keep the stock very long. I laugh at this because the 6.0 powers hundreds if not thousands of Navistar school busses. How come these haven't the problems with leaks, power and every thing else,,, I believe it is because Navistar allowed the 6.0 to stay at 200 HP and 380 torque as designed and not take a computer software program to tweak this to 360/600 or whatever it is FOrd claims..


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

Let me just say this as to which brand hasnt had a load of problems? I read just as much issues with Cummins products offered in Dodge/chevy ? - plenty of dedicated websites that kind of back what I say. I understand the powerstroke 6.0 when first introduced had issues with the injectors, turbos and such. But thats been resolved since 2003. Honestly I dont care because its under warranty regardless, and I have found many,many happy owners of Ford F550's (350's as well) with the 6.0 turbo (myself included). One particular website has ton's of happy Ford owners as well as the 6.0 series - www.fordtruckenthusiasts.com

I like Fords products - I hate to see them in the hurt that they are now, but overall I think they are the best - IMO of course

Both my Navigator and 2006 Ford F550 6.0 have been trouble free - I never was the type to believe whats posted on the net especially when its brand vs brand all over again. Not saying this thread is a brand bash, but overall I find counter points on each negative mentioned regarding Ford. Believe me I never need to justify my own purchases or feel compelled to do so at anytime. 
I do agree its a bullchit move on Navistars part - if they cut off their nose to spite their face - who else can move their product like Ford? 

Still one very happy Ford owner - and its not my only brand either

Duc


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

I have no doubt the sudden price increase between the 6.0 and new 6.4 is because of the USLD requirements. It was known when I grabbed my F550 in July 07' that these 6.4 engines would be a huge jump in price, so acting right away was a good thing.
6.0 can handle old and new fuel, 6.4 only use USLD....they bumbed up the displacment in order to handle the xtra emission requirements. Not much of a performance difference between 6.0 and 6.4. Trust me the 6.0 as it stands is a power house with plenty to spare.


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

I have been around them all never owned one.But at work.They started out with Fords with the Navistar.Fuel hogs and could not pull the hat off your head.Then they went with the Dodge Ram with the inline Cummins.Nice change from the Fords.Plenty of power and a lot better fuel economy.Then came the GMC with the Duramax better yet.But I still think the inline Cummins was every bit as good and will probably last longer.I am sure Fords newer Navistar is better then these older ones.The Last Fords were 90 or 91.The Dodge rams replaced them starting in 94 and they went with GMC recently 2004.

I do not mean this as a bash in anyway.I just drive the darn things.I will never own a full size pickup.I am considering a GMC Canyon or a Chevy Colarado plain Jane with more then likley a 4 cylinder.I would have to sell my house to by a truck like that and can not believe how many I see on the road.I can not figure out why and how they afford them


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

I think they actually all make good trucks - and the japanese thus far havent figured out how to make trucks like the US companies do. I hate seeing these guys suffer and I hope they all stick around. Looks like GM is pulling together, Ford is still suffering as well as Chrysler.

I looked at all 3 and would have been happy with any one of them. It really turned out on the payload, and dump body (mason 4 yrd true) I wanted, along with zero financing that made the choice for me. I kept the cash in the bank collecting interest.

Duc


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

"and the japanese thus far havent figured out how to make trucks like the US companies do." And that gives Toyota a leg up in MO!

Joe, perhaps you didn't see the link above but Toyota is now positioned to dig very deep into the American truck market, what do you bet that you will soon see a lot of these, definitely a serious player against Dodge, Chevy and Ford even with out a diesel as the economics of diesel ownership have been turned upside down lately for the average truck buyer! 

Dean


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

Dean,

I totally agree, it’s their market to grab and it’s by no coincidence the big 3 have been losing market share. But right now they don’t offer anything that is bigger than the Tundra which falls in line with the F150 series from Ford and the equivalent from GM or Chrysler. I’m just talking commercial vehicles at or under 26,000 lb GWVR. Resting on their laurels is not a good position for this competitive market and with their financial situations -

Can only hope things turn around for them fast


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

Dean I dought it.Face it the average full size truck buyer does not like import brands.They believe in buy American when ever possible.They dont fall for the line But there made here.You just dont see that many Yuppies driving full size trucks.


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

So Nick who are these people???? 

Seems clear to me Nick and I recall Americans saying buy American but then buy Quality and price over Loyality to country!!

We sat on our fat and produced JUNK for years, Ergo here comes Honda/Toyota and yes throw in Kubota while your at it!!

Quality SELLS Nick and the Big Three are hamstrung to the likes of unions and just push it out the door mentality!! Not so our Asian Brothers!!

:cowboy: 


Challenges in Truck Country 
By Melissa Anderson, Vice President, IRN, Inc. and 

A number of factors have conspired to set up a slow year for U.S. light vehicle sales and production in general, but one of the most painful aspects for the Big Three might be the state of the pickup truck market. Big trucks have typically meant bigger profits for the automakers, on the order of $2,000 for a pickup vs. $500 for a mid-level passenger car, for example. The tilting of the U.S. market in favor of light trucks over the past ten years has been beneficial to the Big Three, and their flagship trucks are among their highest-volume platforms: GM produces over 900,000 Sierra/Silverado pickups annually; Ford F-Series pickups are over 800,000 units a year; and Dodge's flagship Ram pickup runs about 400,000 units. The stakes are high for the Big Three, and the challenge is growing.

Macroeconomic Factors
High fuel prices led to concerns about the light truck market in 2005, but our statistical analysis showed virtually no correlation between fuel prices and light truck sales. This lack of relationship is particularly true for pickup trucks because there are few substitutes for their functionality, whereas SUV users might be better able to turn to a more fuel-efficient alternative if they felt inclined to do so. Our assessment was that fuel prices would need to remain above $3.00 per gallon for a sustained period before we would see a significant impact on light truck sales. Fortunately for all of our wallets, unleaded gasoline spiked in 2005 and again to the $3.00 mark in 2006, but has not remained at that level.

More concerning is the softening of housing starts. As the accompanying graph shows, there is a strong similarity in the pattern of pickup truck sales and housing starts, since the construction sector is a heavy consumer of vehicles in this segment. The fact that new home sales are falling and the inventory of single-family homes on the market is rising does not bode well for pickup truck demand. The outlook for housing will be weak through most of 2007, and we will not see a full recovery until sometime in 2008. Over the long term, the pickup segment is stable, but it rides the economic cycle of expansion and contraction to a greater degree than other segments, so in the near term it will continue to decline.



US Pickup Truck Sales vs US New Home Starts (R-12) 
Market Share Factors
Aside from macroeconomic conditions, the Big Three are facing a familiar threat on a new front. The New Domestics collectively have captured almost 60% of the U.S. passenger car market, up from almost 40% 10 years ago. Now they are applying themselves to the light truck market and are bolstering their strong positions in minivans, SUVs, and crossover utility vehicles, with a foray into pickups. As the chart shows, the New Domestics as a group constitute 36% of the U.S. light truck market, up from 17% nine years ago. New pickup truck offerings could help fuel further penetration.

The Japanese-owned automakers have not been competitive in this market segment historically, but they are masters at traveling down the learning curve. Toyota has evolved its pickup offering from the early undersized T-100 to the old Tundra pickup to a new Tundra that should be a success as it ramps up production in 2007. The company employed American engineers in the development of the new model, so its features, including an all-new 5.5-liter V8 engine, are more likely to satisfy the core pickup audience. Toyota also situated the new Tundra assembly plant in San Antonio, TX�the heart of the market, a state that constitutes 25% of the nation's pickup sales. 



US Light Truck Market Share by OEM 3 Month Moving Average 
The other members of the Japanese Big Three are driving along a similar route. Honda has yet to get all the details right�its Ridgeline pickup is of unibody construction with a V6 engine, so it cannot haul or tow enough to be a serious contender, but it is a good-looking step in the right direction. Nissan's full-size pickup, the Titan, beat Toyota to the market in terms of size and power, but it has not been overly successful. This illustrates an interesting point about the pickup truck segment. The nature of the core pickup truck buyers�farmers, skilled tradespeople, construction workers�is such that these are customers who tend to place a premium on loyalty to long-term American brands. In this market segment more so than others, it takes more than good product to win over American consumers.

The State of the Segment
It won't be an easy year for those who rely on the pickup truck segment. Demand is contracting due to the economic environment and slow housing market. Major competitors have come in with new offerings. Suppliers that are on pickup platforms should apply a dose of realism to volume expectations through an understanding of the market dynamics and economy. For now, GM and Ford will continue to swap punches, with GM having the better position this year thanks to its all-new GMT 900 Silverado/Sierra trucks. The Dodge Ram, as the oldest of the pickup truck models on the market, will find this a particularly difficult market until its next redesign in 2008-2009. The Japanese will not be able to make significant inroads into the pickup segment immediately or even over a few years, for reasons of consumer mentality but also because they do not have a platform or engine to build three-quarter and one-ton pickups, so they are not able to serve that subsegment at all. But they have exhibited diligence and patience in the past, so 10 years from now, who knows? The Big Three put a lot of resources into their pickup-truck products, and they will not yield the segment easily. It promises to be an interesting and challenging time in Truck Country.


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## Eddinberry (Dec 3, 2006)

I gotta agree.

This is gonna hamstring Ford, but they did it to themselves.
They have forgotten thier Market, and have been hampered by Union labor issues.

I went truck shopping two years ago for a Solid 3/4 ton 4wd truck.

I asked for a plain jane, no frills work truck, for the Farm.
Vinyl bench seat, No power anything, A/C, rubber floors, no radio.
Std. Cab.

After bieng shown everyones quad cab, leather seated, prissed out, yuppified versions, and then bieng asked to pay 40-50 Grand for what I do NOT need I gave up.

Then by a Fluke I found a Used fleet 2500HD with low miles and snagged it.

Am still waiting for any of the three to get back to making a truck that ain't all plastic in the wrong places, and lousy drivelines.

Toyota???

For a 1/2 Ton the thing seems to be decent.
The Price is still ridiculous, as are all of them.

When Toyota figures out how to make a 3/4 or 1 Ton truck, The big three will be hosed.

Simply put, they have ticked everyone off to the point that a new option will see many walking away.

The Chevy Duramax is actually an Isuzu.....
So it's already starting.


Hate to see it, but it's gotta happen to push the big three off of thier Laurels.

Stay safe!
Eddinberry


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

"The Chevy Duramax is actually an Isuzu.....
So it's already starting."

Pat, I can remember when we used to snicker/guffaw at names like Isuzu/Datsun/Toyota!! We snicker no more just look at the Diesel delivery trucks running around your neighborhood and most will now have either a Navistar or a Japanese Heavy Industry Name plate like Isuzu!!

Closer to home, when most of the modern diesels in tractors/ equipment and trucks are coming from the likes of Isuzu/Yanmar/Kubota and other Asian producers can we say that the 3/4 ton / 1 ton market is owned by us!! Not if your at all awake!!

Dean


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

I just do not think Toyota will take over the truck industry.There are three groups of people.

1.The ones that buy full size pickup trucks and there second vehical there wifes drive in many cases is a Tahoe SUV.They have a image to keep up.A few might have a sporty little import but that again just a image thing.They do not haul anything in the truck bed and never go off road to use the 4wheel drive.

2.Second group are the Consumer reports subcriber saftey crash test rating saftey side air bag curtain.Soccer mom and dad type.Hug a tree save the planet earth type.They will buy into the fuel milage is better consumer reports rated it better and the crash dummy lived.Walmart shopper buy anything just so its not made here.Because American factory workers are lazy uneducated how dare they need health care coverage.They never went to college.So why should I support there crappy vehical thats not as good because I seen a article in Consumer reports that said so type.There buying cars and SUV'S not to many pickup trucks

3.Then you have the third group.Farmers, Ranchers, Construction,Maybe rancher and Construction contractors might try a Toyota.But I can not think of one farmer from my area who would go for it?These guys use a truck.There not afraid to scratch the bed.They do not put a cover over the bed.They have a DMI bumper on the back and never pull anything that has a ball hitch.They buy local not from the big city.They would not like taking the Cracks given at the local farmers table for driving a Rice burner.

I just do not get all the American big 3 did it to there self.Because they produced junk for so many years?Todays vehicals run a lot more miles then they use to.They do not need a tune up every 30000 miles.There quiter they handle better.They do not rust out like they did in the 70's.The gas mileage is a lot better then back then.

If the American UAW workers and there greedy union did it.Then why are'nt these import brands where there not affected by big Union greed and over paid lazy American workers that make to much and have to good of a health care package.Then just why is it those Toyotas are not atleast a little cheaper to buy?Like the Hyudai?If I was buying into it I would only consider a Hyudai because im cheap.I would not be buying it because its better.I know darn good and well I would need that 100000 mile warranty then.

America better wake up soon.If its not to late already.They need to wave that flag for more things then just millitary reasons.Stop cutting there own throat.Stop saying im not affected so I do not give a damn.Because the day is closer then they think that there pay check is going to be afected.You just can not stop the domino affect.
But its to late because were just to dumb:dazed: to put a stop to it.Are we all going to pack up and move to Tennessee to work for the Japs and Korenas to build up there bank accounts.Along with the other hand full of American companies that went there because of there lowest property tax in the nation.Wake Up America!


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

Nick you made some good points!

In reply!

1. More Suv types are sold today then Full sized PU'S and that's where the company profit lies in the NUMBERS SOLD!

2. OK Walmart shoppers are stupid then again maybe not, yes they do read consumer reports (perhaps even talk to their satisfied neighbor who just bought a Toyota or Honda and just why did you hold out for a Honda powered pressure washer last week) and they tend to vote with their pocket book!

3. Farmers/Ranchers/Construction Workers----- Nick How many JD dealers did you have in ILL 10 years ago? How many do you have Today? BTW how many Orange tractors or McCormick's (now English)did you see on your way home today?

The rest of it!!

American Manufactures lost the market because they produced CRAP while the Foreign (some at least ) produced a Quality product, Honda comes to mind here, if you have a major road project going on in your area Nick I will guarantee you that you will see more heavy equipment working under foreign badges then you will see under the Caterpillar badge today!! Are these Contractors Un American? No! It's reliability and their bottom line Nick that has changed!!

Dean


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

As mentioned earlier what sent these guys into a tail spin was one of many things but the main ones would be:

1. Labor - Unions - 

2. Fuel prices - really sent the the makers into a nose dive



I do feel overall the big 3 make great cars, SUV's and trucks.
I think for example the Cherokee is a great looking SUV, the Lincoln navi, Yukon, Escalade, denali, GMC trucks, F150 -550, GM2500 series, just to name a few are the best looking on the road. The power trains offered on these along with the factory extended warranty add's to both the quality and longevity.
I dont like the look and feel of the fake SUV's ( I say fake because if it dosent have 4wd low, and enough ground clearance) then its limited. This includes the lexus, toyotas, benz, BMW's, hondas, cross overs and many more.
Yes this is personal opinion but overall I think the big 3 makes great cars. Yes they made some dud's but overall I think the line is pretty solid - They just have the labor unions and energy costs to contend with. Bad timing also plays into this...
also lot of the loss of sales is from all the negative press and restructuring going on. This plays big in the the buyers mind. They may really want a Ford or Chevy, but the uncertainy they are projecting right now forces the buyer to choose foreign.

Heck my 2001 honda accord (daily driver) has been in the shop more than all my others vehicles combined. I just had its transmission replaced - under a class action warranty dispute.
Go figure? its supposed to be the best of the fleet- I dont feel that way honestly....

Duc


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

How many John Deere dealers?Well one dealer bought out several in this area and is now in the top ten biggest John Deere dealers in the nation and biggest in the state and I think 3rd in the Midwest.He has several stores.There is another John Deere dealer nearby and between the two they pretty much have this area wraped up.I go 80 miles away because that dealer loves to drop John Deere products off in this area just to tick off the fat cats.Im just the horses rear end type to like to see the local guy squirm.Maybe next time he will remember I want the best deal.Good leason for him.

Why did I go with the Honda on the pressure washer?Because the other choice was a Briggs Quantum and I have struugled getting those started in the past.I thought I would see how I liked a Honda.I must admit a Kawasaki is nice.

How many McCormicks did I see today?None I seen one since they came out and that was at a Fair.This is John Deere country followed by the other brand Case IH.The Case IH dealer has this area wraped up to with several stores.There is a NewHolland dealer near by.I do not see how he stays in business.I think he might have sold one new tractor last year.He had a good year.I think the CaseIH dealer can get you a McCormick tractor but I dought he has ever seen one him self up close and personal?He also sells Kubota.CUT models for mowing and a bucket maybe a bachoe.What would you do with one of those in the farm fields around here? :furious:Even there biggest Kubota is a tinker toy when it comes to farm tractors 

Construction equipment?Well that stuff is mostly leased.Very few road construction outfits or any other kind owns that stuff.Its leased and Cat pretty much has that wrapped up to.I see Hitachi excavators from time to time.John Deere road graders are popular.Steam rollers and that kind of stuff seems to be old stuff I seen 20 years ago.Havent you heard we have the worst roads here in Illinois.We have to seasons winter and road construction.But nothing ever gets done and when it does they start all over.They use black silly puddy to fill in the cracks.

Yes those satisfied Honda and Toyota owners do tell there neighbors and the cycle goes on.Most of them live in the new cookie cutter houses.That do not have any furniture in them.Because there in deght up to there eye balls.Rows and rows and rows of those houses.Thats where most of the construction is in Illinois.New houses and they are not all Dr's and lawyer either.But latley I see a lot of foreclosures in the news papers every week.I use to see a few a year.But now its atleast a half a dozen each and every week.So the domino affect has already began.As any fool could see was going to happen.If they have a import in there drive way.They did it to there self.If they have a $50'000 truck to drive to work.Its there own fault.If they drive a basic Chevrolet or Buick I then can feel for them.But there still nuts for building a $300'000 dollar house to pay taxes on that will not make them one dollar.That what they get for keeping up with the Jones.


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

"As any fool could see was going to happen.If they have a import in there drive way.They did it to there self.If they have a $50'000 truck to drive to work.Its there own fault.If they drive a basic Chevrolet or Buick I then can feel for them."

Nick, you never cease to amaze me with your innate ability to turn facts into so-much rhinoceros poop!  

The fact that One JD dealer is now the largest because he bought out all the others (should read: not enough sales for competition dealers to stay in business) is a shrinking market not a growing one!!

Not surprising when your own State of Illinois has 26,976 farms showing a net loss of $13,898 , 2002 Census (Illinois did better than the rest of the US on average) As the number of farms/farmers decrease so do new equipment sales and therein is the impact on the big 3 truck producers that must increase market share (numbers) to stay in business let alone not lose share to the likes of Toyota /Kubota etc.

Dean

If you have time this is interesting to see where your state stands!!

Farm loss vs gains in 2002 Census


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

*Update 2/28/07*

Ford slated to lead another monthly sales pullback for the Big 3

Toyota Motor expected to lead gains among Japanese automakers

By Shawn Langlois, MarketWatch 
Last Update: 3:46 PM ET Feb 28, 2007 

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) --At a time when domestic automakers are struggling mightily to keep pace, Toyota Motors is poised to once again push through industry headwinds with an expected double-digit surge in February U.S. sales.

Ford Motor Co. (F: news) and General Motors Corp. (GM: news), meanwhile, are projected to show Thursday still more declines from a year ago as they forge ahead with plans to move away from the low-margin rental car business.


Overall, Calyon Securities analyst Joseph Amaturo is looking for a 5% decline in the broader industry annual sales rate [SAAR] to about 15.7 million cars and trucks. That would also represent a 6% slip from January. 

He said increased incentive spending by GM helped ease the pain of declining fleet sales, but the Detroit giant is still seen posting a pullback of at least 5%. 

Ford will probably take the biggest blow, however, Amaturo predicted, with a stale light truck offering and fewer fleet sales leading to a retreat of more than 15%. 

"We expect Ford's light truck sales (especially full-size pickups) to decline meaningfully year over year, given the new product offerings from Toyota and GM and ongoing weakness in the full-size pickup segment," he said.

Others industry observers are looking for an even more troubling result from Ford. 

Car-buying website Edmunds.com, for instance, pegged the Dearborn, Mich.-based manufacturer to lead all automakers with a pullback of 23%. 

Ford's F-Series has been the best-selling vehicle in America for decades, but GM's new GMT900 lineup, which includes the Chevy Tahoe and Cadillac Escalade, and Toyota's redesigned Tundra are proving worthy competitors.

And even though Amaturo said he expects foreign automakers to build on their market share gains for the rest of the year, they will still have to grapple with an "anemic U.S. sales environment" that could lead to a shift in strategy for some.

"Due to weak sales among some of the foreign OEMs, we believe they will be more inclined to sell vehicles to the less-profitable daily-rental segment, particularly Nissan (NSANY: news)," he said. If that's the case, the domestics might endure an even steeper falloff in their share of their home market.

Edmunds.com forecast market share for the Big Three to fall to 53% down from 57.9% a year ago, with analyst Jesse Toprak warning that the trend will likely continue.

"Domestic sales continue to suffer from pre-planned production cuts and reduction of fleet sales," he said. "Year-over-year comparisons will reflect this reality for some time."

Toyota (TM: news), riding the success of its smaller, more fuel-efficient car lineup, will lead gains among the Japanese automakers with a 16.6% surge, Edmunds.com predicted.


Shawn Langlois is a reporter for MarketWatch, and the editor of its community message boards.


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

Believe me the John Deere dealers around here are making all kinds of money.There not selling lawn mowers to stay in business.

John Deere took the dealerships away from many of the little guys.The Japanese and Koreans do not know how to build farm machienery.So its not part of this problem.We do not grow rice around here.

They might be selling less combines but there over a quarter of a million dollar a piece.A real John Deere tractor starts at $150,000 there not $15,000. for a tractor and $15,000 for a combine like they were just a short 35 years ago.When there were a lot more farmers around. 

But thats getting off topic and keeping the rhinocerous poop flying around. 

Luckily farmers do not want import farm machinery.John Deere will survive.

So would Ford GM and Dodge if people would wake up.Stop buying the import crap even if it is made here.

Dean I have news for you.Us dumb farmers here in Illinois have a big part in keeping this state going.By keeping John Deere going and paying taxes on our land.Its not all about Chicago here in Illinois.Personally I wish we would give that jungle to Wisconsin and Michigan and Indiana and let them deal with it.


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## Eddinberry (Dec 3, 2006)

Swell.....

Now the People democratic socialist Republic of Illinois is somehow intertwined with the sovereign States to the North....

The Tourista's are bad enough.

John Deere, I hear ya.

But ya need to clean up your own back yard.

Folks around here are starting to wonder why there is a Bag Limit during "Tourist season".

Exporting the defectives ain't winning you guys any love.

Chicago Puke driving around in a $80,000 import around here gets no love, except from the Merchants.

They come to "Resort" here, and in the shadows of the industry of a once thriving community.

Southern Illinois and I ain't got issues.

Anything that reminds me of the STENCH of Chicago, and ya got my fur up.

Get it together down there, get back some sort of control.

The maggots sucking the Puss of the festering mass of what is called Chicago is a real problem, and the problem goes back to Trotsky, Stallin, Lennin, and other "Progressives".

I am on the Periphery as you are.

I have a Border.

I wish ya had one as well.
E4E


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## Eddinberry (Dec 3, 2006)

John Deere,

Another note.

The major Crop up here is fruit.

The $80,000.00 Green painted and rebadged Yanmars ain't getting it.

Especially when a Guy can turn to McCormic/Landini and get BETTER power, better durability, and more easily maintained equipment for almost HALF the cost.

There is a reason the old Iron still dominates around here in the Row Crops.

The new stuff in green is overpriced, and lacking.
The Imported stuff is lacking all around.

Big Green is in bed with Satan, even if they are "Sexy Cool" like Harley davidson, thanks to all of the lawnmowers sold and made by Kawasaki!


Tools are tools.

I'd rather support our allies in Europe if I have no other choice.

John Deere sold us out long ago.

Just like GM, Ford, And Chrysler.

Somehow, to me, a perkins Mill, in an Italian Tractor, suspended and driven by U.S. Made axles makes more sense than anything from those folks that Eat Dogs, or Fish Bait.


The damnation of it all is the electronics.

It's either Magneti Marrelli or Taiwan.


I'll suffer favoring Marconi.
Edison never got busy past the concept.

Stay safe!
And mind the Fudgies!

Eddinberry


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## wass (Jan 3, 2007)

*OK! you guys missed a continent!!*

Now that everyone's got EDINBERRY'S dander up, tell him my new tracks will be in tomorrow from Shri-Lanka. Must've been a slow boat cuz we ordered them last Aug.  Ordered them from a US company for a made in the US machine. Hopefully, when I get another truck, most of the parts will have been made here, but I doubt it.


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eddinberry _
> *John Deere,
> 
> Another note.
> ...


They dont sell many of those Yanmars painted green around here.Thems just a lawn mower on steroids.Not much use for anything under 200 hp around here.John Deere engines are in the real John Deere's there made in the USA.I know they have import parts.Metric wrenches are now in our tool boxes.But thats just the way things are these days.

Those McCormick knock offs might would be fine for a batwing or running a auger.Pulling a fruit cart pulling some little rinky dink harrow or disk or scratcher like that.But hook a chiesl plow a field culitvator big enouph to get anything done with to it and those light duty steel wheels would not do anything but spin.Hook a grain cart to it with spaced dual catching on the fly and watch the axels snap.But the real kick in the teeth would be when some stupid little sensor or something decided to take a dump.Then you wait for the parts to come in on a slow boat.While your trying to get the crops planted by Tuesday and there predicting 2'' of rain on Tuesday night.Or you need that tractor on wagons to get the corn in.That went down needs a part and the rain clouds are gathering.Down time because of parts might be fine mowing road side ditches.You can always do it next week.But next week is to late during planting and harvesting.


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

It does get to the point of its not worth posting anymore - the topic was about Ford and navistar having a pissing contest - then its foreign vs imports. Then someone always starts getting offended - but Im lost as to why? ruins the thread everytime


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## wass (Jan 3, 2007)

Naw, the thread didn't get ruined, just got some people thinking about the root causes of some problems/trends. If some feathers got ruffled, at least they are thinking about the problems and what they themselves can do to help. It is a really good thread.
Happy Birthday Chief!


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Thanks wass! Got it off to a good start this morning about 1:30 am with a nice hail storm and a ton of rain. Maybe number 50 will be more on the peaceful side.


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

*Navistar to resume shipping diesel engines -- Ford*

Back to the original subject at hand- sort of

==============================================
Navistar to resume shipping diesel engines -- Ford
Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:51pm ET



DETROIT, Feb 28 (Reuters) - Ford Motor Co. (F.N: Quote, Profile , Research) said on Wednesday a Michigan court has ordered Navistar International Corp. (NAVZ.PK: Quote, Profile , Research) to resume shipping diesel engines that power the automaker's key F-Series Super Duty pickup trucks.

Navistar this week had stopped building the 6.4 liter diesels for the Super Duty models because of a contract dispute with the automaker.

"Earlier (Wednesday) we filed a motion with the court seeking a temporary restraining order to reinstate the shipment of 6.4 L Powerstroke diesel engines to our Kentucky Truck Plant," Ford spokeswoman Becky Sanch said in a statement. "The judge granted the motion and Navistar was ordered to resume production and shipment of engines."

Ford had sued Navistar in January over warranty costs and engine prices


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Wouldn't want to have any of these engines in my truck. I can imagine the minimally legal effort Navistar will put into these engines now that Ford is holding a gun to their head. Ford would be wise to drop the 6.4 Powerstroke and go with the tried and true (read VERY reliable and mountains of torque) DT466 Navistar has been very successfully making for years.


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

Sorry guys!It was a Navistar and Ford topic and I had a big hand in taking it way off course.I did not bring up Toyota however.But thats beside the point.When these things happen and I say something.I should realise by now there is going to always be a Its White no its Black argument started.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Nick, no harm, no foul. A good discussion is what this place is about and we seem to having a pretty good discussion going here. The dream engine for a Ford Super Duty and up truck would be a nice John Deere 6068.   Now that would grab my attention. :thumbsup:


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

a few high level good points as to why it came down to this - but in the end they both need each other - just look at the revenue

and for side bar comments- Im still happy as a pig in chit to own a 6.0 powerstroke -  
Heck they even gave me a free 6 yr 75k drivetrain warranty 
Cant complain or even worry about the sky falling - 

==============================================

"In January, Ford sued Navistar, saying the company failed to pay its share of repair costs from the problem-prone 6-liter diesel used in the 2002-2007 model years. In its suit, Ford said it was withholding some of those costs from payments to Navistar on the new engines.

Oakland County (Mich.) Circuit Judge John McDonald granted Ford’s motion for a temporary restraining order, which requires Navistar to resume making and shipping diesel engines to Louisville, Sanch said. But the judge’s order also requires Ford to stop withholding funds.

Navistar spokesman Roy Wiley said, “We have no problem producing engines for Ford. We just want to be paid. They have not been paying for those engines because of the warranty dispute.”

Wiley declined to say how much money the companies are fighting over. 

“It’s a lot,” Wiley said. “We wouldn’t do this if it were just a small number.” 

About 75 percent of the Super Duty trucks get diesel engines. The rest get V-8 or V-10 gasoline engines. 

Analysts have said neither company can afford to keep the dispute going. Ford needs the high profit margins found on diesel trucks, and Ford is Navistar’s biggest engine customer.

Earlier this week, Bear Stearns analyst Peter Nesvold estimated that diesel trucks are worth about $11.6.billion in sales to Ford each year. The engines generate about $2.7 billion in revenue for Navistar. "


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

> _Originally posted by johndeere _
> *Sorry guys!It was a Navistar and Ford topic and I had a big hand in taking it way off course.I did not bring up Toyota however.But thats beside the point.When these things happen and I say something.I should realise by now there is going to always be a Its White no its Black argument started. *


Yes, Nick I brought up Toyota and this announcement today is the reason why!! It's a very pertinent part of this discussion!! 

Ford, DaimlerChrysler U.S. Sales Fall 



Thursday March 1, 2:19 PM EST 


Ford said Thursday its U.S. auto sales fell 13.5 percent in February, putting it in danger of being surpassed by Japanese rival Toyota, while DaimlerChrysler posted a 7.7 percent decline.

Ford attributed its sales drop to a 30 percent reduction in fleet sales, while the German-American automaker cited lower demand for vehicles from its U.S.-based Chrysler Group.

Meanwhile, Honda said its U.S. sales rose 3.2 percent on stronger sales of its trucks.

Ford Motor Co. sold 210,194 light vehicles in February, down from 242,912 in the same month of 2006. Car sales fell 22 percent to 70,951, while sales of light trucks decreased 10 percent to 122,644.

The Dearborn, Mich.-based automaker said overall sales to retail customers fell 8 percent compared with a year ago. Sales to rental car companies decreased by 16,000 vehicles, the company said.

Many analysts expect Toyota Motor Corp. to take Ford's No. 2 spot in U.S. sales this year, after its sales surpassed Ford's in two months in 2006.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Step out of the cornfield once in awhile and look around! BTW John Deere has a similar situation looming in their future, a recent report shows most of their profit comes from mass marketing of piss ant consumer (Asian made) Yuppie Lawn Equipment that you Real farmers won't buy!!!!!!

Dean

:cowboy:


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

Well I would love to comment Dean but im not hyjacking this topic again.I will just step back into the cornfield My only coment is maybe you should make a trip to Moline or Waterloo and take a look around.Then try to tell me the Piss Ant stuff is there profit:furious: 

Perhaps you should step out of the cow pasture once in awhile and take a look around.You might be surprised what you see besided Bull Sh*t on your boots:furious: 

Sorry guys when two know its alls meet this is bound to happen.Keep in touch!


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## Eddinberry (Dec 3, 2006)

Wass,

Sri-Lanka??   

And the Bogies were from Croatia if I remember correctly. 

Yanmar Mill.....

Made right here in Da USA!!!!

      

Gotta love it!
Eddinberry


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## Eddinberry (Dec 3, 2006)

Duc,

GM and Isuzu go WAAY back, but it's still no excuse.

Ford has the resources.... or HAD, to do thier own thing, and have 100% Q/C across the board.

Possibly, this negative trend in outsourcing, might lead some to start thinking again.


Hate to see everything go imported, and I don't reckon John Deere is gonna start making and marketing Pick ups very soon.

Possibly it's time to start looking at those surplus Deuce and a Halfs again  

Stay safe!!
Eddinberry


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Archdean _
> *Yes, Nick I brought up Toyota and this announcement today is the reason why!! It's a very pertinent part of this discussion!!
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ...


Im trying to figure out if the last part was needed or called for? Nope, it wasnt...


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ducati996 _
> *Im trying to figure out if the last part was needed or called for? Nope, it wasnt... *


Near as I can tell that's a personal opinion and we all have a right to one! I agree with with your last sentiment!!

Dean


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eddinberry _
> *Duc,
> 
> GM and Isuzu go WAAY back, but it's still no excuse.
> ...


I don’t think it’s truly a quality thing that is driving away customers - they are still there, its just now Toyota and Honda are picking up the "new found business". It’s now the perception (and its true) when companies are struggling and are restructuring to such a degree as GM, Ford & Chrysler is doing consumers go for the more stable of the bunch. Its free business for those who are financially sound. It happens all the time in business. Honda and Toyota are in a big upswing right now but as well all can guess the big recession is right around the corner. So inflation rises and guess what also gets hurt? Imported goods - like cars...IMHO of course


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

The reccesion is right around the corner for sure according to two days of trading recently.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

In my case, it definitely WAS a quality issue that drove my truck purchase decision. I spent nearly 3 years researching and watching changes made to US manufactured trucks. In the end, I went with the 2002 Dodge Cummins purely for the reasons of quality and components used. For the most part, the 2002 Dodge Ram 2500 and up was NOT a Dodge truck but a Dodge truck body built on off the shelf proven components. The only thing that was Dodge was the body........Cummins engine, New Venture transmission, New Process transfer case, Dana axles. Dodge screwed up and changed all of that in 2003......hence their share of quality problems. Ford and GM were much worse in this area. Toyota would mop up the small utility pickup market if they could find a way to import their Hilux diesel pickup. 

Toyota Hilux


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

I agree with you Chief about the Toyota Helix. Nice looking and would last a long time with a diesel engine. 

I have always thought the Navistar CXT was pretty cool. Not that much more money than the smaller commercial Fords and Chevys but lots more beef to the frame, drive train and brake systems. I saw one of these and they are as tall as a semi tractor. Wouldn't fit in my garage but still pretty cool.

Andy


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

December 7th 1941 another reason to not buy a Toyota.


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

Nick, for a fellow who came to be on the planet long after WWII, things have changed since that day and if one of this nations strongest trading partners still harbored your attitude today it's probable that you would not enjoy the ability to of posted that comment on the internet via your computer and I no doubt wouldn't be able to see it!!

We are irrreversibly connected to a world body now, like it or not, learn to swim in the swamp!!

We haven't been RFD America since you were born!!  

Dean


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

What ever Dean but dad remembers.We also remember a few Uncles of mine that I never met.That died because of that.

If were suppose to forget.Why fight the war were in now that you so highly feel the need for.Lets just for get it and send all are money over to them now.Why wait There also trying to take us over.Nothing has changes since 1941.Its just a friendly take us over slowly approach.They have pretty much got the job done.They own everything here anyway now they shut us down.While we sat on are hands a let it happen.They brain washed guys like your self into believing it was normal and OK to buy us out.

Dad told me in the 60's when they were walking around snapping picture this was going to happen.They were up to something.

Why would you care Dean your retired.Do you have Grandkids that will have to deal with it in there working days?


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

I care Nick, really I do!!

I think you can benefit from this: ( Just for Nick!! )

All in the spirit of friends!! 

Dean


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## wass (Jan 3, 2007)

*Big Can of Worms opened here!!!!*

Being of small stature ( wife politely calls me petite ), people have liked to try to control me in my earlier years. Now, with some age, long hair, beard and a reputation for whatever ( good, but a little wild ), I've learned a little about friends. All are bigger than me. Some don't see any friendship until I kick their @ once or twice and then are generally the best ones. Some will try to bend me over really well and then walk. Good for them. Don't come back. I'm not saying we should forgive and forget everything, But who haven't we been at war with? Our world would get really small if we carried those grudges! I do however think we could do a better job of taking care of ourselves. In general I've got a lot of respect for most of the inhabitants of this planet, but feel some of the people controlling them need their @'s kicked. Right now I wish we were competing a little better. I don't shop at Wall Mart and try really hard to buy US made, but it's getting really hard. We have to compete or get run over. For good or bad we are in a world economy. Hope none of you guys are shrinks and analize these incomplete thoughts and run-on sentences!


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

Wass,

I happen to like run on sentences they actually make you read them, imagine if you verbally talked in the stilted sentence structure, you would sound like a halfwit, anyway it's more like conversation!!

Anyone analyzing anything :dazed: here, is not very likely  !!

:cowboy:


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## Eddinberry (Dec 3, 2006)

Duc,

Goofy thing is that just about EVERY U.S. Manufacturer, is intertwined with one or more asian manufacturer.

Ain't Nobody exempt really.

John Deere sells Yanmars, and Kawasaki's.

Ford/New-holland is actually Shibura.

GM is Isuzu.
Ford is mazda.
Chrysler is either Benz or Mitsubishi.

It's all crap to think or even suggest, there is a singular reliable entity that is still holding to the old hard rules.

Agreed.


'Ol JohnDeere has fields that stretch from horizon to horizon and are served by Big Green well.

That used ta be Normal here. It ain't so lately.

Globally, there are more Farms that do not encompass several thousand acres, and thier needs are outside of the 100+ Hp range.

Just like waaaaaaaay back when, a Forn 8N would do for the Farm.

Those that have stepped up to the plate and are delivering currently, are overseas.

I hate it!!!!

Ya just gotta know I really do.


Then again, I gotta buy and use the things.

Just like the Truck, the landini Tractor and the Fuel that powers them both.


Ford is in a place they can either fold from, or take advantage of.

The corporate bottom line isn't always the Moral bottom line, and that fact is obvious.


The Balance currently seems to be LOST!!!!!!!

Thanks!
Eddinberry


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## Eddinberry (Dec 3, 2006)

Johndeer,

Brother, Ya just gotta know, I'm pretty much aligned with your thinking concerning the imported Stuff.

Problem is, I am in a place that offers no choice period.

I have a Crop to harvest, and Plants that need work.

I can either spend 80 large for a Green Tractor that was made by the same folks that Brought us Peal Harbor, and then spit on me and mine some 40 years later, or spend 40 Large on a better tractor that is easier to work on, parts are cheaper, and dealers are local......

It's economy of scale.

Big Green has been pushed into a corner.
That Corner is the Huge row crop farms.
That is why they have subcontracted to those nice folks that still label thier goods "In the year/Name of our Emporer".

Would love to have a Green Narrow tractor made by a Fellow American.

There ain't one.

So I suffer with what is better than the Jap's can produce sold under the badge of Big Green.


Dodge, Chevy, and Ford are in the same place.

I wish the driveline of the Dodge was up to the task, as I respect Cummins immensely.
But it ain't.

Ford and GM both are in Bed with the enemy.


Who to choose???

Get to fussing over outsourcing manufacturers and ya soon go Nuts!!!

Toyota???

The stupid things are solid, and assembled here.

I hate them. I will openly bust the chops of anyone driving one.
But the dadgum things flat work.

We all have been pushed into a corner on this.

We let it happen.

Fer instance....

What would happen tomorrow, if we were forced to go to War against Japan, and Europe today?


It ain't new.
It's old lessons learned.

Last time it happened, we had many companys holding the high road above profits(Baush &Lomb etc..) that were turned to.

GM, Ford, Chrysler, Harley Davidson, John Deere.......

Cut the importation off, and what do ya have?


It's a bad place.


I don't like it either, and our folks deserve better.

Staysafe!!!
Eddinberry

P.S.
I just want a Narrow 80-100hp American Made tractor with a HVAC Cab to work the Berries with.....

Is that so far beyond the capabilities of John Deere???


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

Forget those new 5000 series John Deere's.The 7000 series example 7310 7410 are traded in low hours all over this state.Nice little tractors light duty use and the head lights are round:furious: There not ruined by global trading and will still be around 50 years after the import counterfit John Deeres are in the bone yards.I would go back to a 4020 before stooping so low as a tractor desighned for rice wagon hauling

Shut them off stop buying new if they want to sell junk.See just how long it takes for things to turn around.But dont throw in the towel and buy the imports.


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

"Shut them off stop buying new if they want to sell junk.See just how long it takes for things to turn around.But dont throw in the towel and buy the imports."

Nick I'm certain that you understand the polite term "Peeing Upwind"!!

Boycotts DON"T work never have, never will!!

Value for dollar spent is what works and it is the American way. If you really want to make a difference in this world tell your dyed in the wool Dem friends to get realistic and stop demanding unrealistic wages for unskilled union dufus labor at $58.+ dollars per hour + benefits doing little more than sidelining and pricing American companies out of the Competive market!!

Dean


:cowboy:


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

On the topic of the Japanese John Deere tractors.......they are built for John Deere by Yanmar. Yamar in all probability makes THE best compact tractors money can buy world wide bar NONE. 

In fact Yanmar diesel engines are so reliable, they are one of the top selected engines for marine use not to mention marine generator use. 

The John Deere 790 and 990 are both probably THE most bullet proof (if anything could be described as such) design tractors on the U.S. market. 

Up until very recently the highly successful John Deere 4000 and 4000 Ten series tractors ALL used Yanmar diesel engines. 

With respect to full size REAL ag tractors, the John Deere 55 Series in particular the 4455 was one of the all time reliable classic design full on ag tractors. 

Boycotts don't work:question: We will certainly see. With the latest offering of $50,000 plus diesel pickup trucks being offered by Ford, GM, and Dodge..........I will keep my trusty 2002 Dodge Ram Cummins powered pickup. I paid around $28,000.00 for it new and thought that was too high. It won't neccesarily be a boycott so much as the manufacturers pricing their products out of range of most rational buyers. The same goes for farmers buying new tractors. I''ll find some decent used JD Green or IH Red machines. 

The shop rates are so high that I do my own maintenance.

I'm tired of being bent over! #[email protected]$: I will buy used and make do with what I have at those prices. I do however boycott GM products ever since the hosing I took over my Lemon 1993 Suburban K2500.


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

"Boycotts don't work We will certainly see. "

As for most of what you said I agree but for the above, strip out the hype and the emotional hot button that is quickly overcome by time and need, for instance your statement of "I'll just buy used Jd or Red machines" and that is all well and good for a few of us unfortunately machines being machines they have have a useful life and with the increased pressure placed on that market, it is soon exhausted! 

Enter the straw that breaks the camels back, [DEMAND] and it will be filled by the Greatest Value for the dollar that will fill the need!! And that's not at an inflated price that is caused by antiquated Labor Contracts!! BTW Just how much value is added to that machine by paying a fork lift driver $58 dollars per hour are you willing to pay for????

Dean



:cowboy:


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## Eddinberry (Dec 3, 2006)

Back to Ford/GM/Daimler-Chrysler.....

They outsource for what reason?

It used ta be that Raw wood, rubber, and Iron Ore were shipped into Detroit, and Model "T"s came out the other end of the factory.

Waste byproducts were capitolized upon and other products were made from them.. Like Charcoal.

Now whadda we got?

Why?

Bang for the buck.


Wages for production of components overseas are so much lower that unit costs are the better option elsewhere.

The Mom and pop suppliers here in the states can no longer compete, and BAM!!!!

Contracted suppliers in the states go belly up.
Framilliar products have major components made by folks who will never see, and in some cases never understand what they are making.

Back to John Deere....

They sell a narrow series made by YanMar.
Lotsa power for it's size.
Wonderfull Cab, with lotsa electro gadgets and a constant RPM PTO for doing what us Berry and Grape maniacs do most.

Here's the Rub.

Nearest dealer is an hour away.
Cost is darn near twice that of a landini/McCormic/AGCO.
Ya gotta be an Electrical engineer and have a gazillion dollars worth of specialized tools to work on the thing.

It's made by the same folks who threw rocks, spit on me and mine, and prohibited us from entering restaraunts if one my Buddys was Black, Mexican, or obviously Korean in heritage.

It's a no brainer.

Nearest McCormic/Landini Dealer is 9 Miles away.
The things just flat run!
They are easy to work on your self.
Lots of American made components.
Electronics are by Magneti Marelli and Ducati(Marconi invented the Radio, Ducati made the components).
They are purpose built for Vinyards/Blueberrys.
Our Italian Allies support us in this latest war.
The word "Showa" is nowhere on it.
Green Tractors in Berry patches around here are rare, and there is a reason.

Back to GM/Ford/Chrysler.

Chief brings up a good point.

50 grand for a pick up truck is complete and total meadow Muffins!

I ain't paying it anymore than I will for the Green tractor that dosn't fit.

I have duct tape holding the right front turn signal assembly in place on my 2004 2500HD, on account of the PLASTIC support bracket failing due to nothing more than vibration.
The replacement part is 160 bucks!!!!!


Have replaced the ALUMINUM driveshaft thanks to minor impact with a stump and PATHETIC ground clearence....that cost me 600 bucks! For a dadgum driveshaft made out of Beer cans.

Next time I'll have one fabricated out of 4140CM tube for half the cost.

I'll keep running this Chebby untill it's rotted down to the frame.
I can rebuild an old school small block myself.

Ford and thier problems????
It's more of the same.

Toyota and the rest are taking advantage of the opportunity.

It's business.
And it seems we have idiots running our big three, and the Unions are cutting thier own throats.

The opportunity to dominate the middle market is there, but the big three and John Deere both have chosen to sit on their Laurels, and cash in on thier names.

In the meantime, folks need Trucks and Tractors that work and are reliable.

As long as John Deere sells Jap Tractors, I wont own one.

I wont own a Chevy Diesel made by Isuzu.

I might however buy a Yanmar that fits my needs and an Isuzu truck.

It's the insult that bothers me.
Not the product.

I got work to do, and I ain't got time for deception, lack of support, limited parts availability, lousy secondary parts failures, and ridiculous costs of initial investment.

Dean has a point, but it goes deeper than the 40 dollar an hour union fork truck driver.

All those yuppies driving $60,000.00 extended cab diesel extensions of thier living rooms drive the market...... for now.

It wont last.

The big three will soon fall flat on thier face.

When they get back to making trucks for folks that use a truck, they will recover.

If the Japs don't beat them to it.
Like they have with 0-100HP tractors.

Just sayin'.
Eddinberry


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

Just a note of opinion!

With nearly 500 views and some 60 replies, this type of discussion minus an (occasional hiccup or two) is a true mark of success for this site and I hope it continues on to other threads, as I know of no other, where the blending of the extremes are so well received and tolerated maybe even understood afterall!!

Keep it going!!



:cowboy:


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## Eddinberry (Dec 3, 2006)

Dean,

It's obviously a common Lament, and frustration that is shared.

Even dadgum Levis and Carharts are now made by Mommasan.

If we ever go to war with China we wont need a Jappaneese made vehicle cuz we wont be able to go outside NAKED!!!

Ya gotta love it!
Eddinberry


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Eddinberry _
> *Dean,
> 
> It's obviously a common Lament, and frustration that is shared.
> ...



And that is as clear a definition of the <I>Reality</I> that confronts our modern US Society as one will ever <B>SEE</B>!!

Dean

:cowboy:


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

Dean yes cutting them off buying good ole John Deere products would hurt the econmy and John Deere.

Just like buying the import vehicals are hurting the big three auto makers.Does that stop the American buyer from buying Toyota or who ever just so its not one of the big three?

What started all this so called global trading are several reasons.It was not developed for the good of the world and all the worlds people.Why that Global trading is shoved down are throats and were suppose to digest it is clear and simple.There are many things that created it.

The biggest is the Health care problem we have here in the good ole USA.Caused by are own sue happy people.Along with medical greed.Why should a tylenol cost so much more during a stay in the hospital then it does over the counter.Should be the same price if you ask me.Why do all these worry wart test like Colon cancer screening and Cancer this better be checked just in case this and your over this age better worry about this test.Cost what they do.I still say be checked for this and that every year is just a racket.But thats a topic for a completly different thread. Then you have the people with insurance driving up the insurance abusing it.Going to the emergency room for a hang nail.Or they have a Fart cross ways they better have it checked out.

No wonder every things made in China and the big three had to make a run for the borders both south and north.The healthcare problem is an American problem.The best health insurance is the ones you and I provide for the poor who will not work.I think its called the Green card?

Then the property taxes for indusrty is so high so many companies had to make a run for the borders.But with are Come to America one and all attitude and start building Toyotas will give you a tax break for a set amount of years program.Why would they not be doing well and headed to number one.They will offer jobs and all is well.

Yea right!!!!!Casual part time yet 40 hours a week with over time.Why? to avoid the Health care package program.This way the worker gets no free ride with that.They can have it if they decide to buy it.Have it held from there check.But they will be big and pay a percentage also.Walmart and other places that sell you the made in China products.They have a different aproach.Let the worker get 28 hours a week then there completly out of luck for health insurance.Thats called a loop hole ans works well for them.

Why the high property taxes?Because the crooked two bit politicians we put in Washington.Are busy voting in there selves a big fat raise.Flying around with the freqent flyer miles we provide.Called our tax dollars.Making up jobs for there friends and family.Like working with EPA thinking up ways to shut down are own industry.By making the auto makers make there vehicals clean burning fuel this and that.Then the saftey hounds sitting behind there desk on there big fat rearends thinking up saftey this and saftey that must be on all before such and such year.Then the energy saving thought up counsil.Must get this milage rating make them lighter.Cheapen them up then gripe because they do not hold up.Like the econbox rice burner does.


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

Dean yes cutting them off buying good ole John Deere products would hurt the econmy and John Deere.

Just like buying the import vehicals are hurting the big three auto makers.Does that stop the American buyer from buying Toyota or who ever just so its not one of the big three?

What started all this so called global trading are several reasons.It was not developed for the good of the world and all the worlds people.Why that Global trading is shoved down are throats and were suppose to digest it is clear and simple.There are many things that created it.

The biggest is the Health care problem we have here in the good ole USA.Caused by are own sue happy people.Along with medical greed.Why should a tylenol cost so much more during a stay in the hospital then it does over the counter.Should be the same price if you ask me.Why do all these worry wart test like Colon cancer screening and Cancer this better be checked just in case this and your over this age better worry about this test.Cost what they do.I still say be checked for this and that every year is just a racket.But thats a topic for a completly different thread. Then you have the people with insurance driving up the insurance abusing it.Going to the emergency room for a hang nail.Or they have a Fart cross ways they better have it checked out.

No wonder every things made in China and the big three had to make a run for the borders both south and north.The healthcare problem is an American problem.The best health insurance is the ones you and I provide for the poor who will not work.I think its called the Green card?

Then the property taxes for indusrty is so high so many companies had to make a run for the borders.But with are Come to America one and all attitude and start building Toyotas will give you a tax break for a set amount of years program.Why would they not be doing well and headed to number one.They will offer jobs and all is well.

Yea right!!!!!Casual part time yet 40 hours a week with over time.Why? to avoid the Health care package program.This way the worker gets no free ride with that.They can have it if they decide to buy it.Have it held from there check.But they will be big and pay a percentage also.Walmart and other places that sell you the made in China products.They have a different aproach.Let the worker get 28 hours a week then there completly out of luck for health insurance.Thats called a loop hole ans works well for them.

Why the high property taxes?Because the crooked two bit politicians we put in Washington.Are busy voting in there selves a big fat raise.Flying around with the freqent flyer miles we provide.Called our tax dollars.Making up jobs for there friends and family.Like working with EPA thinking up ways to shut down are own industry.By making the auto makers make there vehicals clean burning fuel this and that.Then the saftey hounds sitting behind there desk on there big fat rearends thinking up saftey this and saftey that must be on all before such and such year.Then the energy saving thought up counsil.Must get this milage rating make them lighter.Cheapen them up then gripe because they do not hold up.Like the econbox rice burner does.


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

opps sorry for the double post


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## johndeere (Sep 17, 2003)

You guys get bored easy and move on.Funny how that works


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

*Launch in Limbo - The lastest on the Ford - Navistar Dispute*

Here is the latest poop on the Ford Navistar squabble.

Engine dispute threates Ford's Super Duty production  


The Super Duty is a key moneymaker for Ford. But 3 of 4 buyers want a diesel engine, and supplies are in limbo. 

Launch in Limbo 
Engine dispute threates Ford's Super Duty production 

By RICHARD TRUETT | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS 

AutoWeek | Updated: 03/04/07, 11:25 pm et 


A festering dispute between Ford Motor Co. and International Truck and Engine Corp. is threatening to stall the launch of Ford's most profitable vehicle, the Super Duty pickup.

Late last week, a Michigan judge issued a temporary order forcing International to resume production of the Super Duty's 6.4-liter diesel engine. In return, the judge ordered Ford to pay full price for the engine, rather than demand reimbursement for hefty warranty costs on the previous version.

But the Super Duty pickup is not out of trouble yet. Another court hearing on the matter is scheduled for Wednesday, March 7, in Pontiac, Mich. The acrimony couldn't come at a worse time. The 2008 Super Duty, which began arriving at dealerships in early February, is off to a flying start and is one of Ford's few hot products. Prices range from $23,000 to more than $60,000, and the truck often sells at full sticker with no incentives.

Diesels account for about 75 percent of the mix. The two companies are trying to negotiate a settlement.

But at a time when Ford's turnaround hangs in the balance, this legal battle threatens a vehicle that delivers up to $17,000 in gross profits per unit, says Art Spinella of CNW Marketing Research Inc., of Bandon, Ore.

The dispute boiled over on Feb. 23, when International halted engine shipments rather than compensate Ford for those disputed warranty costs. The weeklong stoppage cost Ford a precious 4,000 engines as the company tried to fill 70,000 dealer orders for the truck.

On Feb. 23, Ford tried to ease dealers' concerns with a memo stating that the dispute with International would be settled before Ford ran out of diesel engines and had to curtail production at its Kentucky Truck plant in Louisville, where all its Super Duty trucks are built.

But less than a week later, it had to backtrack. Super Duty production was trimmed Thursday, March 1, and suspended entirely Friday. Starting today, March 5, the plant will run on one shift, down from three, for an indefinite period.

Sanch would not say how many units of production were lost or when full production will resume.

'A huge sucking hole'

Arizona dealer Randy Fuller is worried. 

Fuller, who runs Pinetop Motors in rural Lakeside, Ariz., says a shortage of Super Duty trucks will create "a huge sucking hole" in his business.

"I'm rural," says Fuller. "Everything I do is truck, and 70 percent is diesel. The stoppage has got me concerned. Ford can't afford it, and neither can the dealers."

The Super Duty is one of the few Fords that consumers are standing in line to buy. Fuller sold his only 2008 Super Duty about two weeks ago, the same afternoon it was delivered to the store. Some are on the way, but he doesn't know when they'll arrive. Fuller sells about 200 heavy-duty Ford pickups per year. 

Fuller doesn't want to lose his customers at a time when rival truck-makers are rolling out new products. Toyota has launched a redesigned full-sized Tundra. 

General Motors is shipping a new heavy-duty truck to dealers now, and Dodge dealers will get redesigned heavy-duty pickups this month.

Cash cow

To fend off this onslaught, Ford launched an expensive Super Duty ad campaign that debuted during the Super Bowl. Ford is doing everything it can to protect its cash cow.

According to the Automotive News Data Center, Ford has built about 38,500 Super Dutys since production began in December. Ford offers two gasoline engines in the Super Duty: a 5.4-liter V-8 or a 6.8-liter V-10. 

But the gasoline engines get poorer fuel economy than the diesel and can't tow as much. That's why three out of four buyers choose the diesel.

The diesel's popularity has upped the ante on the simmering warranty dispute between Ford and International. On Jan. 11, Ford sued International to recover warranty costs on the 6.0-liter diesel used in heavy-duty pickups from 2002 through 2007. 

Costly lemon

In its lawsuit, Ford said the old diesel suffered malfunctions with the fuel system, turbocharger and engine management software. Some early engines made in 2002 and 2003 were so bad, Ford repurchased at least 500 trucks from disgruntled consumers.

Ford has never disclosed the precise amount of those warranty claims, but losses may have totaled hundreds of millions of dollars. 

To recoup that money, Ford demanded price cuts on International's new 6.4-liter diesel engine. In response, International stopped shipping the powerful turbodiesel, and Ford quickly went to court.

Spinella predicts the two sides will settle the dispute in 30 days or less.

But International doesn't appear to be wavering. Says spokesman Roy Wiley: "The bottom line is we have to be paid."


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## tdnramon (Apr 17, 2010)

hello everybody, i have been trying for some time to find out which manufacturer is doing the navistar 
dt466 and dt530 aluminum front cover, the front and rear, but i can´t find it... please, i want to show
to some of my friends, than everithing is possible with internet.
can anyone help me with that information, or if you know some manufacturer of this kind of parts, please 
help me... thanks a lot.

[email protected] 

tdnramon


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