# Help! 9N problems, etc



## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

I've just got a Ford 9N the other day. It was owned by some old man, whom was very nice. 

He told me he had it for 4-5 yrs. The radiator was cleaned out, spark plugs been in for one year, little play in the steering wheel, new front tires, old tires are dry rotted but holds air (good grips), tires have water in them. The pto and 3 pt hitch works, the carbuerator was new, new manifold and it has a 12 volt deal. 

Well, I was plowing firebreaks with it this weekend and the gas thing didn't have much grooves no more so you can select how much gas you can give. So basically, I have to hold the best I can but the gas goes up and down. Well, today the carbuerator started to flood up alot. I changed to fuel filter, spark plugs and wires (HOPEFULLY I GOT THE SPARK PLUG WIRES HOOKED UP RIGHT!), oil filter and oil. 

If I go on the tractor in first and put it full throttle, it goes for awhile then it starts to act up and it put-puts and you can smell it flooding and if you do it in any other gear, it doesn't want to hardly go either. It's running dead too, it may just be because I'm turning it over to much or the generator is goin'... 

I think its the carbuerator not getting enough of gas but I don't know. Do any one you know what the problem might be? If you have a 9n, does every 9n carbuerator set the same? How to set it right? 

I got some pics, will post later.


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

DocHolliday

I confused you said it smelled like it was flooding but then you said the carburator is not getting enough gas. One means too much gas and the other is not enough. 

If the float valve is stuck open you will get the engine flooding out. This would result in the engine losing power and stalling. If it has sat for a while sometimes there is dust and gunk that can get into the fuel line. Especially if the tank was dry when you got it. Also when you changed the fuel filter you may have knocked something loose in the fuel line that found its way to the carb. It doesn't take a very large piece of dirt to block the float from not closing when the bowl if full and it would dump the excess fuel into the engine. In extreme cases this would continue after it quits running and the gas will seep by the rings and mix with the oil. you should check the oil and see if it seems thin and/or smells like gas. 

If it runs good for even a little while I would think you got the plug wires on fine. If it always misses I would check manual to make sure the wires are on right.

Morgan is one of our local old Ford tractor experts and when he comes on here he will be able to help you more.

Andy


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Well I talked with this guy I worked with (He was a secret service guy for Ronald Reagan- just wanted to mention that since of your sig. by Ronald Reagan) and he said it could be that the glass bowl is getting air in it and causing to much air since I cleaned the bowl out cause there was rust in it and some other things about it. I really don't know but I'm getting a guy to come work on it tomorrow hopefully.

Think this will cause my engine to mess up?


When I changed the fuel filter and stuff, there was no problem, didn't seem to be clogged up, gas just came out like regular. 

Spark plugs seemed to be ok, but I don't know. The book I got doesn't show me how my tractor is.

BTW, the tank had gas in it when I got it.


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

If your saying the bowl has air in it and is not filling completely with fuel then yes that would cause problems since that indicates your not getting enough fuel flow. If that is the case then first loosen the fuel bowl and let it fill completely with gas. It could be that you just had air in the line. If you can't get a good fuel flow backtrack the fuel line from the bowl to the tank and check for obstructions. Could be gunk in the bottom of the tank so you would need to drain and clean it out.

Let us know how it turns out.

Andy


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## mongoose_1 (Apr 1, 2006)

Be sure to also check the Bowl Gasket. The Gasket is generally cork. It is possible that the bowl is not sealing completely. Even though it may not leak fuel, however, It will suck air once the motor is revved.

Good Luck!


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

My oil smells like gas. I am so P.O.ED. Now I have to change all of my oil and oil filter again ($50+ of stuff), oh well. 
Could this mean a gasket is gone, if so, where might it be?
Could this just mean that my engine was flooded badly and that's why my oil smells like gas?


I was going to take off my carb. but I stopped once I smelled my oil. I just wait til that guy comes but I would really love to do it myself. 

I didn't take off the filter in the fuel bowl thing, I was going to because there was alot of sediment (rust) in the bowl like I mentioned and it could be rust above the filter cause fuel just drips in the fuel bowl (is that how it suppose to do or just pour in there fast?).

I think it may be the float too. I will update yall more later when I can and will have pics of the tractor.

Thank all of you for the help yall are giving.


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## mongoose_1 (Apr 1, 2006)

My experience is Gas in the oil is a float stuck open. When not running, it is best turn off the gas valve.

As for the fuel into the bowl, It should trickle into the bowl kinda quick, not just drip.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

I always turn off my fuel valve when I get off the tractor when not in use. 

It drips........drips.......drips.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

<a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/?action=view&current=0709184801.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/0709184801.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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<a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/?action=view&current=0709185959.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/0709185959.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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CARB.-
<a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/?action=view&current=0713161940.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/0713161940.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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I have to seal this, what is this called? The governor?

<a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/?action=view&current=0711192653.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/0711192653.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


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## mongoose_1 (Apr 1, 2006)

Yes, your last picture is of the Governor. Looking at the pic, it appears to be throwing oil against the block. My 8n was doing the same. When I removed it, I found a crack in the casing next to the block!


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Oh man, did that cost alot of money to fix!!!??! I'm about to cry if it is. Seriously.

It's throwing out oil a little but if you give a good bit of gas it sometimes does more but I got thicker oil in it. 

I got a High Temp gasket glue maker and maybe that will work. Will it be ok?


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## mongoose_1 (Apr 1, 2006)

Mine was actually a small enough crack to ping gently back into place and cover over with some JB Weld. worked fine and never leaked again. Yours may not be cracked, no need to sweat yet, could just be the Gasket. 


A quick reference for parts prices is 
www.just8ns.com

They carry parts for 2,8,and 9 N's.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Well it doesn't leak bad until a get more gas, like I mentioned, but I've got thicker oil in it and it isn't that bad so I guess it's just the gasket is gone. 

I don't know where all of that grease is coming from all over the tractor.


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## mongoose_1 (Apr 1, 2006)

From the pics, it looks like a real good pressure washing is due. As for the grease, it looks more like oil and dirt gunk.

How much oil pressure does it have? Also if it set awhile new lifter cover gaskets probably wouldn't hurt.

My 8n would only keep 10# of oil pressure at working temp when I first got it. After I regasketed, it would maintain 15-20#'s at working temp.

She is definately a good looking piece for her age. Some TLC here and there, She will likely last bunches longer.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

> _Originally posted by mongoose_1 _
> *From the pics, it looks like a real good pressure washing is due. As for the grease, it looks more like oil and dirt gunk.
> 
> How much oil pressure does it have? Also if it set awhile new lifter cover gaskets probably wouldn't hurt.
> ...


When I give alot of gas it reads all the way to 50 with oil pressure.
The amp meter doesn't work lol. My battery is dead too, I guess I turned it over so much when it was flooded to check to see if it would crank. 


I want to get all of the running stuff fixed before I paint this baby. Got to get a rotary mower too. How much HP does this tractor have?


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## mongoose_1 (Apr 1, 2006)

> Well it doesn't leak bad until a get more gas, like I mentioned, but I've got thicker oil in it and it isn't that bad so I guess it's just the gasket is gone.


What Vicosity of oil are you running?


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Mongoose's advice is on the money. 

A date with a pressure washer and a little touch up paint after a few leaks are addressed and your 9N will be nice n pretty.  

I agree about the float or float needle valve being stuck open. A carb gasket kit, a gallon pale of carb cleaner and I bet you can disassmble the carb, soak it in the carb cleaner for a few days to clean the gunk and crud build up with a good cleaning with compressed air to clean out any remaining stuff, your carb should be as good as new. 

This same thing happened to me with my first tractor which was a Cub 154 Lo Boy. 

Have you bought a maintenance manual for your N yet?


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

The guy I bought the tractor from gave me a manual from TSC for it. I'm fixing to go out to the farm and take off the bottom of the carb. and see if the float is stuck and then take off the bowl and take out the filter and see if there is alot of rust above it.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

I am using 20 80 oil, I think.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

I took my carb off but I really didn't see nothing, but I may be mistaken. I have some pictures of it:

<a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/?action=view&current=0716172041.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/0716172041.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


The valve on the carb that hooks up to the manifold looks burnt a little, I don't know why:
<a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/?action=view&current=0716172054.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/0716172054.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/?action=view&current=0716172254.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/0716172254.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/?action=view&current=0716172309.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/0716172309.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


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## mongoose_1 (Apr 1, 2006)

Just me Doc, but if I had to run 20/80 oil to slow leaks down I would change some Gaskets. A good Pressure washing and a day of use will probably show you which gaskets need it the most.

As for the carb, it does look fairly clean. I would pull the pin that holds the float on and check the needle valve. There may be some gunk or trash that is not letting it seat completely.

As for the fuel just dripping into the bowl, loosen the thumb screw at the base of the bowl. With a little air gap, mine would overrun the bowl quickly. If it does not flow free enough, there maybe some rust or gunk built up in the tube above the shut-off valve. Unfortunately the only way to correct this is to drain the tank!

A small funnel with a hose run to a bucket and unscrew the valve assembly. This will also help drain the tank of any free rust or water that may be in there.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

> _Originally posted by mongoose_1 _
> *Just me Doc, but if I had to run 20/80 oil to slow leaks down I would change some Gaskets. A good Pressure washing and a day of use will probably show you which gaskets need it the most.
> 
> As for the carb, it does look fairly clean. I would pull the pin that holds the float on and check the needle valve. There may be some gunk or trash that is not letting it seat completely.
> ...



We were using 20w 80 because of the leak on the governor, yes, and plus it's an old engine and it needs some thicker stuff to keep it good.

The carb had some gas in it when I pulled it and it has some black trash in it, or something, and I know that isn't the way it suppose to be. I may have to drain the tank. and clean every bit of it all out. 

I think above the fuel glass bowl, the filter, has some rust above it. I will have to check this weekend.

The valve assembly? Where I turn the gas off and on where the fuel bowl is located, correct? Lol, I know this may, (let me scratch may and put is), be a dumb question.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

What's good to clean out the carburetor?I was looking on TSC site. I think it is the valve needle.

Also, what kind of oil should I use? 20W 80 is ok ain't it?

Also, I have a small fuel filter on it, will that be ok? Cause I asked a guy at TSC for a fuel filter for my tractor and he gave me a huge one and I was like where am I going to put this?

Could I keep the same oil filter I have and just change the oil since it has gas in the oil now.

If I get a governor gasket, could I put it on, then start driving the tractor or do I have to wait 24 hrs like a gasket maker?


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

not sure about the fuel filter but I would think so long as you get good fuel flow through it you should be fine. I don't remember if they originally had one. 

Normally on these old engines the fuel bowl allowed any gunk to settle before it got to the carb. Then when you noticed the bowl getting filled with gunk you remove, clean out and reinstall. Kind of a reusable fuel filter. 

As far as the oil the risk you run by using too heavy of oil is that it doesn't flow into all the places its needed and the engine fails due to lack of lubrication. For a short time you may get away with it but longer term you are better off fixing the major leaks and using the correct weight oil.

Get a good carb cleaner from any auto parts store. You can get quarts or gallons and submerge the carb to soak for a day or two to clean areas that are not easy to get to. You can also use the spray can version for carbs that aren't too dirty. Blow it off with an air hose afterwards and you should be good to go. 

Andy


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

10w 40 is the original oil, I think? 

I'm gunna work on the tractor tomorrow. I really appreciate yall working with me. I do not know much about this but I am learning pertty quick.


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

Doc 

I give you a lot of credit for diving into a project like this. You will know your tractor better than most people after you are done. Plus you will never take it for granted that it will start and run  

Keep up the good work. We love helping each other when we can.

Andy


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## mongoose_1 (Apr 1, 2006)

Fortunately Doc, your experiences probably fit alot of folks here. I had never worked on a tractor before my 8N, so it was a learn as you go!

Be patient! With the help of the folks here and your own determination, you will figure it out.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Well we had tractors long ago when I was little but i was to busy working in the fields to know much about anything. 

I'm going to go and get me a screen and gasket and a new fuel bowl for my tractor! As well as oil filter and oil and carb cleaner.
What kind of oil should I use?

I just want this baby running good for mowing and plowing firebreaks.


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## mongoose_1 (Apr 1, 2006)

I used 10 w 40 in my 8n.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Ok thank you.

Here is my list to get from TSC:
-Oil
-New OIL FILTER (GRR)
-Screen and gasket for the fuel bowl
-Carb. cleaner

and maybe a gasket for my governor if they have one?

Ok, I am out. Thank Yall for help.

I'm gunna drain the gas from my tank, take out the old screen and gasket in my fuel bowl, blow out the fuel lines, clean the carb and remove the float and check the needle. That sounds right?


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

Sounds like a good plan Doc. I would also check the fuel tank after you drain it to make sure there is no left over gunk in the bottom. Sometimes the gunk is big enough to not fit down the fuel hole but will break up later and cause problems.

Andy


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Update:

-Cleaned the carburetor with GUMOUT CARB + CHOKE CLEANER, it was dirty AND now shiny. 
-Check the gas tank, all that is there is rust-no problem. I didn't drain it though....I think I should but I don't know. 
-Took the screen and gasket out of the fuel bowl. The original gasket is completely a waste. Put a new gasket and screen on. 
-Check the spark plugs I put on, they are black (flooded). Cleaned them up the best I could.

Then I charged my battery up and tried to crank it. Didn't work. My brother put some ether-starting fluid (sp?) in the air breather, and it wanted to crank up, but it shut off again....Dang it!!!

The top of the air cleaner was dirty but we checked the oil in the air filter thing and it was clean. We may have to change it now cause of the starting fluid that was in it. 

I don't know what is wrong with it now. Anyone know what the problem may be since it won't crank?

*Also, I did like yall said, to let the fuel bowl thing loose so air could go in. I did and the gas poured in the fuel bowl better. I dropped the fuel bowl before I did this but it didn't crack lol. Thank you for the tip.

*When I crank the tractor, how many times do I turn the fuel valve on the fuel bowl assembly? 2 times or what? I usually turn it a little bit not much.


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

Good job working through those issues Doc.

It sounds like its not getting enough fuel now. Can you remove the air filter and spray starting fluid directly into the carb? If it fires and runs even for a few seconds then you know it is not getting enough fuel. I open my fuel shutoff all the way not just a couple turns. Maybe in the past when the float was stuck, opening the fuel shutoff just a little let it run better since that slowed the amount of fuel running into the carb. Now that the float is working properly you need to supply the regular (wide open) flow of fuel. 

Also there should not be any rust in the fuel tank or you will have the carb/float problem again. Also the rust could be slowing the fuel flow by partially blocking the fuel line. You need to drain the fuel from the tank and maybe remove it to completely clean out any remaining rust before you try to diagnose any carb problem. Start at the beginning of the fuel path before moving on.

Andy


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

What could I clean it out with? 
The hood is so freaking aggervating getting off. 
I don't have to take off the fuel bowl assembly do I to clean it out? 
So how many turns? More than 2 or what?

The carburetor is completely clean now, it hasn't flooded no more yet. 

Also, will the oil that I am using 20w 50 or 20w 80 (can't remember), be ok in my tractor for now or should I just change it? 
THE OIL DIDN'T HAVE NO GAS IN IT! YAY! I guess the gas was on my hand when I smelled the oil.


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## mongoose_1 (Apr 1, 2006)

Generally 3-4 turns on the shut off valve is sufficient.

Removing the cowling can be a pain, however Andy is right on with there not being any rust left in tank. I would take the time to remove the tank.


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

Mongoose is right about the cowling being a pain. But if you take the time to get the tank off and cleaned out that is one more problem fixed rather than hoping that it will not cause a problem in the middle of working it. I normally just slosh a little gas around inside the tank and quickly dump it out. I generally do this over a patch of weeds and kill them while I'm at it.  Repeat until clean. 

Also you can check to see if your tank is actually rusty inside because you may need to seal the inside of the tank to prevent the problem from coming back. You can either take it somewhere to have it done or you can buy gas tank sealant/coating that you can do yourself. Either way if you fix it right now you won't have to worry about it again.

Andy


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

cowling? Eh?

I slosh the gas around the best I can. The tank is rusty at the top.

How do I do the sealant thing? Just spray it in there or is it liquid and you pour it in the gas?

I thank yall for the help so much. 
:worthy:


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

Have you removed the tank? That can be a pain but to fix the rust inside of it and not let it get worse you will need to do so. 

I have never had to fix the inside of the rusty tank though I think others here have done it. I googled gas tank sealant and found this site. 

http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm

I don't know if this product is good or bad but they do have a fairly long description of the process to recoat the inside your tank.

Andy


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Do I HAVE to seal the tank? Could I not do it but just clean the rust out and it will be ok?
I need this baby working so I can plow firebreaks and clean up lol. I don't want to blow it up though.


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

If your car has a rusty spot and you sand off the rust but don't paint it the rust will come back. That why the tank sealant is used. It is designed to hold up to the caustic nature of gasoline better than regular paint. 

You can clean out the rust and put it back to work. But you are just delaying the inevitable by not coating the inside of the tank now. We're just trying to help you avoid problems down the road while you have the tractor out of service anyway. Ultimately the decision is yours we're just want you to know your options. 

We all have been in that situation where you need equipment back in service now and don't have the time to fix it. You may get by until winter comes and you have more time to fix it properly. 

Andy


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

> _Originally posted by chrpmaster _
> *If your car has a rusty spot and you sand off the rust but don't paint it the rust will come back. That why the tank sealant is used. It is designed to hold up to the caustic nature of gasoline better than regular paint.
> 
> You can clean out the rust and put it back to work. But you are just delaying the inevitable by not coating the inside of the tank now. We're just trying to help you avoid problems down the road while you have the tractor out of service anyway. Ultimately the decision is yours we're just want you to know your options.
> ...


Well since I have a new screen and gasket for the fuel bowl, maybe that can stop the rust (some of it). The rust isn't that bad in it from what I can tell but maybe later down the road I will clean it out. Maybe it won't cause me no problems.
We crank the tractor up today and the idle screw needs to be adjusted a little more.

I think the generator is gone because the battery is always dead. What do yall think? 

I'm going to test the tractor out today for a bit.

Thank you for your help.


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

If the battery is charged up enough to start the tractor and then is dead the next day just sitting I'd say its probably a short somewhere in the wiring. To find it you would need to trace the wiring looking for a place the insulation has rubbed through and is touching metal. This is very common and can drive you nuts looking for it. 

There is always something to work on with old tractors:dazed: 

Hopefully you can go a while without fixing the gas tank. The new screen will help keep some of it out of the carb but it can accumulate on the screen and block fuel flow. Keep checking the screen regularly and you may get by for quite a while before more surgery is needed.

Let us know how it works for you.

Andy


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Well. Today I tried to get my brother to help me take off the hood to take off my gas tank to slosh the gas around but he is stubborn and just said to shake the tractor and the gas will shake around in the tank. I drained the gas (but not all of it), and got a flash light and looked in. It had some dark places, I reckon rust and someone had it painted inside. I drained the gas from the valve assembly, took off the screen and gasket and drained the gas. I put it all back on. 

Some tape caught of fire though the other day, I think it was the voltage regulator or something that was wrapped up. Got to get more tape. 

We adjusted the carburetor some more and got it running pretty ok. 

I ran it a little bit and I saw that some rust was in the fuel bowl. Blah. I went to plow the firebreaks and it just rained and was pretty wet. Came to a spot where it was flooded, tried to back up with the harrows but the tractor backfired and turned off. Tried to crank it up...DEAD! Blah. 

Greased most of the fittings though today.

I might get a new gas tank, I do not know yet.

GOT MY GAS TROTTLE QUADRANT TODAY IN THE MAIL! YAY! Now I don't have to hold the dang gas lever in place now.


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

Sounds like you are making progress Doc. Sorry to hear about the stalling problem. Were you able to get it restarted or did it set outside for the night?

Andy


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

My brother went to get my truck and we charged it up and it went again. 

I think the carburetor needs a little more adjustment.

The belt on the fan is also loose, I think it needs tighten. Is this the reason my battery isn't charging well?

Also, there is still rust going in my fuel bowl. Will it be ok to clean it out and the screen and use the tractor still?


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## mongoose_1 (Apr 1, 2006)

Doc,

AS for the rust, as long as the bowl is catching it you should be OK to run for a little while. Just remember, the tank should be taken care of as soon as feasible to prevent having issues with the carb again.

As for the charging, tighten the belt is the first try. However if the generator is not charging, placing a trickle charger on your battery at nite should allow you to run most of the next day.

Also, remember that if the generator is not charging and you are running off battery. As the battery gets weaker, so does the fire at the plugs,


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## wass (Jan 3, 2007)

One thing to consider about that belt is that it is rather wide and can exert a lot of pressure if tight. It should run on the loose, almost sloppy side to keep the side load on the bushings and bearings at a minimum. It doesn't take much to turn that fan and generator and a sloppy, worn out belt will do it and not wear out the rear bushing in the generator!:smoking:


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DocHolliday _
> *My brother went to get my truck and we charged it up and it went again.
> 
> I think the carburetor needs a little more adjustment.
> ...


Can you put on an inline fuel filter? They are cheap and will catch the rust or at least all but the really fine stuff.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

> _Originally posted by TF Admin _
> *Can you put on an inline fuel filter? They are cheap and will catch the rust or at least all but the really fine stuff. *


Well I got a small fuel filter on it. Maybe that should help it?

We're going to tighten down the belt a little cause my brother said when he was on the tractor he could see the belt move around alot on the generator.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Update:
- We tighten down the belt. It was so loose that you could nearly pull it off the generator. Is that how it is suppose to be or what? We tighten it down but we left some slack in it.
- We crank up the tractor so much that this little metal peice got red and burnt the tape up on it. I don't know what it is called unless it's the voltage regulator. It should be ok? I hope
- The tractor won't start, I think the carburetor is still messed up. We had it running but the next day it wouldn't even work. I don't know if it was just because that peice was real hot or the carburetor still not set right, or both! Any tips for adjusting the carburetor?


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

If you are turning over the engine for long periods of time you will heat up the cables and starter to the point of cooking them. If you have any part that is getting red hot you will need to figure out what is wrong before you start a fire or kill a key component. 

The voltage regulator wouldn't cook itself while trying to start the engine unless the wiring is really messed up:dazed:

Do you have a manual for the tractor? A parts list makes it much easier to accurately describe which part is heating up and to order the correct replacements.

Did the tractor run well when you used it yesterday or was it having any problems? Is it firing at all? 

Whenever you trouble shoot an old tractor start with the basics. Is it getting fuel and is it getting spark. If both of those are present it is should start.

Andy


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

UPDATE:
Called a tractor mechanic out today. Found out that we put the 2 spark plug wires on the wrong spark plugs. He took the fuel line that goes to the carburetor off and open the fuel bowl to let fuel go but no fuel came out so he took my fuel filter off and blew through the fuel lines. Then he just put the lines back together (w/o the fuel filter). He set the carburetor. Cranked it up and it ran with no problem (though I didn't drive it right away). $86 paid to him. 

Got on it later, ran pretty good in 1st and ok in 2nd but got it in 3rd and it ran like you know what. Seems like it wasn't getting enough of gas and was put-putin. Stalled and the battery was still dead. Got it back running. Left it in 1st. Got in the woods and I could tell something wasn't right like it was trying to stall on me a tiny tad bit but it kept going. Got to the hares and was backing up to them on a slope. Tractor stalled. Dead. It pissed me off ALOT! I called the guy and I told him what happen. I told him it seems like it isn't getting enough of gas. He told me that he had a feeling the carburetor was flooding a bit when he was fixing on it. He told me to take check the carburetor to see if the float was sticking. Told me that rust may was above the fuel assembly in the gas tank blocking fuel flow (there was rust in the fuel bowl and I cleaned it out). 

I took the fuel lines off, turned the gas on, gas was running through it with no problem. Drained the carburetor of fuel, took it apart, notice there was rust at the bottom of it. Cleaned it. Moved the float up and down (trying to free it to make sure nothing was messing it up). I put it all back together and then took the screen and gasket off in the fuel bowl, it was fine. Put everything back on and hooked the battery up to the cables that ran to my truck battery. Cranked up the tractor. Ran, moved the fuel lever down and gave it gas (ran good). I took off the hot post off but left the ground on the battery on my tractor. Gave a little gas to the tractor. Stalled. I did this over but left the hot on for awhile and then took it off. Gave gas and it seem like it was ready to go. Got on and started to go...STALLED within 9 ft. 

Well I charged it up again and made it run, walked up to it and I told it to go ahead and stall and die cause I knew it would and it did obey orders and stalled and died. 

Now I'm $86 short and nothing to hardly to show for it.

I think I may call the guy back to see if he can come out. 

Or should I clean out the whole entire gas tank and get most of the rust out the best I can?

The guy said if I cleaned out the gas tank and the rust to much that it may cause a hole in my tank. He also said that I may need to get a bigger fuel filter but that the fuel sediment bowl should get most of the rust. 

What do yall think the problem is and what should I do? 

Thank Yall.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Doc,

You need to fix the rust problem or this will cause problems endlessly down the road as it is now. Not sure what route you want to take. There are gas tank liner kits you can purchase ($60), POR 15, buy a new tank ($154), or you might try taken the gas tank off emptying out completely, blow out as much rust as you can with compressed air and take the tank to a local radiator shop and ask them to boil the tank out. That will probably clean most if not nearly all of the rust out. I would fill the tank with a quart or so of some SAE 90 oil or similar and shake it all around to coat the inside of the tank. Dump the oil out. Reinstall the tank, fill it with gas, and wish it well. This is not the perfect fix but will likely work for as long as you will use it and not cost a lot of money to fix. You might even luck out and find a tank for sale on eBay. 

If the inside of the tank is severely rusted, the rust will continue to flake off and get into the carb and clog filters. The sediment bowl usually catches most of it but all it takes is a little bit to cause problems in the carb.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

So you think the way it is running now is that the problem is the rust?

I need a fast, easy way, but will protect me from this problem for a very long time. 
The reason I am trying to hurry with this stuff is because I'm fixing to go back to school and maybe get a new job and I won't have time to do stuff at the farm. I got to mow and harrow alot. It's been so junky aloooooooooooooooooooooong time at out farm.


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

The fastest, easiest way is going to be the most expensive way and that is to buy a new gas tank. You need to install a big flow fuel filter inline just to make sure that you keep that carb clean of any debree and clean out your sediment bowl and any screens that may be attached to it. Clean the carb yet again and install everything. You also need to get the tractor running and remove the battery cable and if it dies then its trying to run off of the battery, if it keeps running then you know its charging your system is charging. I really think that you are dealing with multiple issues and not just one. Attack and conquer, but just let me point out that some/most of these old tractors are money pits, meaning that you can sink more money into them than there worth.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

I also heard this:

Put nuts, bolts, a chain, etc in the tank with some gas already in it. Shake it for 15 minutes and pour out. 
Someone said CLR (the stuff you get from a grocery store) can remove the rust..is this possible? What other cheap things can I use?

If I pour the oil in the tank and empty it, there will be oil left, what do I do? Pour gas in it and slosh it around?
--------------
I don't know about a new tank. I don't have my old job no more and I'm waiting for another and I only have 400+ dollars to hold me til I see if this new job will work and I was planning to buy a cheap rotary mower.

I hope this tractor will be ok for operation because I got a Ford Courier that will cost me alot to fix up.


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

Nuts, and bolts will pit the inside and thus cause more damage than good, will it work, YES, is it good for it? NO The pits will eventually rust and cause more rust issues. Buy a new tank or take it to a radiator shop like what was mentioned. The hard thing is going to be finding a radiator shop, they have pretty well disappeared around here.

http://www.just8ns.com/


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

My vote would be for buying a new tank, but I realize you have a tight budget to work with. There will be some residual oil left over in the tank. Just leave it in there. The oil will mix with the gas and run on through the engine. Going this route will only be a temporary halfa$$ fix but it should work for a good while.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

I found this tank:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ford-8N-9N-2N-t...ryZ63979QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I might try just cleaning the rust out. I hate this stuff but it happens. Seems like nothing gets better for me but hey I could have worse.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Just depends on how well the machine has been cared for in the past. Some need more TLC than others but once you get the problems ironed out, the reliability of a properly cared for tractor will pay off.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Can't I boil the tank myself?

All they do it dump it into boiling water and let it sit for a bit, correct?


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DocHolliday _
> *Can't I boil the tank myself?
> 
> All they do it dump it into boiling water and let it sit for a bit, correct? *


No. It is a chemical bath.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Update:
I took the tank off. Left gas in it and put some washers in it. Shook it around. Empty the gas, etc. Poured 20w 50 oil in the tank, shook it around. Empty the oil. Poured gas in to wash the left over oil out. Put it back on my tractor. Drove. Rust was still going in the bowl. It drove pretty good. 

Well I took off the hot battery post on the tractor while it was running. It went dead. Generator is gone. Planning on buying an alternator. What do yall think?

What gets me is that, when I was going for awhile, it seem like it wasn't getting gas a little, like it was wanting to put-put. Well I kept going and it starting dieing out and it did. Could this just be the rust build up causing this? 

My brother says it's the governor. I don't think so.

Also, I just got my gas fuel quadrant because the old one was wore out, I think it was the orignal one. Well the one I got, the fuel lever won't stay in some places like it should. What should I do? I tried to bend it. I may need to bend it more.


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

I wouldnt do anything until you get the charging correct. If the battery is low then the spark will not be what it is suppose to be. What you are doing is running the tractor until the battery goes dead and then the tractor dies. You have other issues but until you get this fixed you will not know about the others except the rust issue. Maybe you should get a tank kit and try it.

http://www.ytmag.com/reviews/review1297.htm


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Well we left the battery charge over night. It was still turning over good. I just mention about the battery cause I need to get a alternator since the generator is gone.

It's the gas that's making it do like it does too. I can tell. I had the harrows behind me and was fixing to go, I gave it good bit of gas and it just acted like it wanted to die out, like gas wasn't going.

BTW, I like yer avatar.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm going to get this alternator right here...
http://stores.channeladvisor.com/db-starter-alternator/items/item.aspx?itemid=335962

Should I buy this tank?
http://cgi.ebay.com/new-gas-tank-fo...4QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:US:101


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

I have purchased an alternator.
I am going to purchase the gas tank sealant that yall recommended me. I found a hole in my gas tank but it was already sealed up.

total for both things (estimated):
$144
$44
-----
$188


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DocHolliday _
> *I'm going to get this alternator right here...
> http://stores.channeladvisor.com/db-starter-alternator/items/item.aspx?itemid=335962
> 
> ...


Heck ya buy that tank, it says free shipping and thats cheaper than I have seen a new tank and you need one in a bad way.


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

ON the alternator all you need is a Chevy one wire alternator from Autozone.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

well I already ordered the alternator and the tank sealant!
That will be ok?

I need to save all the money I can, that's why I didn't buy that tank.

$400-$188=$212



Now I got to pay a $50 bill

$212-50= $162

Then insurance for my truck ($27)

$162-$27=$135

THEN I HAVE TO BUY A NEW FUEL ASSEMBLY! BLAH!!

Maybe I will have enough of money until I get another job...I hopE!


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

I've got my alternator in but I think there is a problem. 
The peice that hooks up to terminal 1 and 2 isn't in the box. It has a plastic peice that is hooked up to the wire which plugs into the terminals 1 and 2. 
There isn't instructions in it as well! NOR BELT! A peice is also cracked, I think it is the resistor. It's a white peice with metal peices at both ends.
This is the alternator I bought from this company:
http://stores.channeladvisor.com/db-starter-alternator/items/item.aspx?itemid=335962

Anyone know where I can get the plastic plug in peice that hooks up to the terminals? Couldn't I like go to Advance Auto Parts or something?


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

Yes Advanced will have it


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## mongoose_1 (Apr 1, 2006)

Doc,

Try this link here for installation - 



http://home.att.net/~jmsmith45/rep.htm#q7


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

So I will need the wire for terminal 1 and 2. Correct?
Do I also need a diode? Or will it be ok since I got a kit?

One wire is better than three wire? I hear that three wire is better but for things like hooking up radios, etc.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Ok, I've been working on the tractor and installing the alternator.

Generator to 12V Alternator conversion:
So I decided to put on an alternator because my generator seem like it wasn't working no more. I don't know if it was a burnt wire or it was used up. The guy I bought the tractor from said that the tractor was converted to a 12v. Everyone was changing to alternators on these tractors, I've notice. So I looked up for an alternator on the 8N site but it was 144. I kept looking and found a kit from DB Electric in Gray, TN. It came but the instructions wasn't in it nor was a connect pigtail that connects to terminal 1 and 2 and the resistor was broken in half but still together (should I still use it?) nor was the belt that they claim to be in the kit. It's ok though, I'm cool like that but they better watch it (I understand they probably get alot of business).

So, I took yalls advice and went to Advance and got my connector pigtail. It had red and white wires instead of black or brown and red.

Here is the log that I wrote:
The page I printed out said the pigtail connect wires should be (Terminal #1-black or brown)-(Terminal #2-red).
The connector I bought has (Terminal #1-red)-(Terminal #2-white).
I have started my project....
-Connnected the white (#2 terminal) to rear post connector.
-Pigtail the red (#1 terminal) to brown wire (cause I didn't have extra red wire that small), which plugged up to the resistor. 
-Got thich red wire and hooked it up to the rear post connector, which went to the terminal block.
-The new coil I got with the kit was smaller than what was already on the tractor, so I left the coil that was already on it on. The brown wire from the coil hooked up to this:
<a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/?action=view&current=0810191358.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/0810191358.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

what is this item? It has been so hot, that it turned red. I guess cause we turned the tractor over so much when it didn't want to crank.

MY QUESTIONS:
Am I doing this correct and how much more do I have to go?


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

Did you put a 12 volt battery on this tractor? If you are feeding 12 volts into a 6 volt coil you will burn up the points in it. There is a cheap fix. Its called a Ignition ballast resistor and it "steps down" the voltage from 12 to 6 before it gets to the coil. I had one on my 1941 Case before I went the rest of the way completed the 12 volt conversion which included a new coil. I used a cheap 10SI alternator from Autozone (around $25 new). Followed the instructions in this article and it works like a champ.

12 volt conversion 

I never added the warning light it mentions though it wouldn't be a bad idea. I can take some pictures of it if that would help.

Andy

P.S. Did you ever get it running good?


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

It had a 12v battery in it and the guy said that the guy he bought it from long ago already did a 12v conversion.

The coil pack I got in the alternator kit was smaller than the one that was already on it when I looked.

I guess the big one that was already on it a 12v? What do you think? Or is it the small one that came in my alternator kit?

It's running but it still goes dead sometimes. I think it's still the gas and the battery deal. I bought some gas tank sealant and I'm waiting for it to come in. I already got my alternator kit.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

I got a new resistor with my alternator kit also but it is cracked. Is it still ok for use?


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

This coil moves around though, that I got from the kit. It won't stay a tight fit like the one that was already on it.


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Can anyone give me pictures of the wires on your tractor and how you got the alternator hooked up. It's not that I don't know how to read a diagram, I know how to read but I like to see the pictures on the tractor. 
If anyone of yall will do this for me....I WILL THANK YOU FOREVER!


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## mongoose_1 (Apr 1, 2006)

Doc,

Not that i wouldn't, but I sold my 8n 2 years ago!

see if this link helps you any

http://www.ntractorclub.com/howtos/pdfs/BeeMO's_1951_Ford_8N_6_to_12_Volt_Conversion.pdf


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

Great link mongoose, very detailed


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

I don't have sidemount, only front.
I am using this site:
http://www.ntractorclub.com/howtos/images/6to12v_1.gif

Is this a good diagram?

I got questions though about it.
Instead of using a diode could I use a resistor?
Should I use my ignition resistor or a voltage regulator (resistor) to hook up to my coil?
Also, do I have to get a 1/2 ohm resistor to hook up terminal 1 to the diode?
Looking at the diagram, how does all of this hook up to the battery? Through the ammeter? I don't think mine works though. Do I have to hook it up to the ammeter?


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

Well guys.
I got a diagram from the company who sold me the kit....
Well...I didn't hook up the ammeter part like it says. My tractor still isn't get spark to the plug. What is wrong?
Should I hook it up to the ammeter and then it would work?
HERE IS THE DIAGRAM, THINK IF I HOOK IT UP LIKE IT SAYS, THAT IT WILL WORK? Looking at the diagram, do I have to use terminal 1 and 2?

<a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/?action=view&current=alternator.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/bmxer00002003/alternator.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

I would install everything exactly the way they say. Then once I had it working I would gradually change things to how I wanted it. That way you can call and get tech support from the people you bought the kit from. 

Andy


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

It doesn't look like terminal 1 and 2 are hooked up. So don't hook em up?


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## DocHolliday (Jun 24, 2008)

I called a tractor mechanic and he told me I could just hook a wire from the hot post to the hot post on the battery. I did. 
Still nothing!
I am so aggervated. I tried to see if the plug is getting spark...it isn't!!
WHAT IS WRONG!?!?

I got the new coil on which is hooked up to the resistor and the wire runs to the left top side on the existing resistor. I then hooked up a wire to the right top side to the on position on the key switch and ran a bottom wire from the bottom bolt on the existing resistor to the off switch. STILL NO LUCK!

WHATAM I DOING WRONG!!? I hate to get this guy out here and then it be something little and I have to pay him so big money. Can anyone PLEASE help me?


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