# Ford 4500 won't start once running runs great



## Jennifer Clark (Aug 24, 2017)

Have a Ford 4500 tractor 3 cylinder diesel that I have change the fuel lines on bleed the fuel system put in completely new diesel after draining the tank ran a battery tester and the battery is good tried cranking over while spraying ether tried hitting them older I'm stumped can't get the tractor to start easily once we get it to fire usually takes about a half of a day of messing with it to get it to crank over and start but once it's running runs great stays running no problems if I turn it off and turn it back on it again have to go through the same problem I'm not sure what to try next any ideas


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

did you replace the filter and clean the screen to the pump? Could be restricted


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## Jennifer Clark (Aug 24, 2017)

I am brand new to owning tractors where exactly do I go to check the filters and where do I get replacement ones I can take pictures if that would help


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## Jennifer Clark (Aug 24, 2017)




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## Jennifer Clark (Aug 24, 2017)

Jennifer Clark said:


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## Jennifer Clark (Aug 24, 2017)




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## Jennifer Clark (Aug 24, 2017)

Jennifer Clark said:


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

Howdy Jennifer, welcome to the tractor forum. 

Does it blow white smoke when you are cranking? If so, that is unburned diesel. 

Diesels normally start with a small shot of ether. When you hit it with ether, does it blow black smoke? Surely, it must have "tried" to start with the ether? Is the air intake open? Do you squirt the ether into the air intake?

Is your cranking speed slow? If so, you may need a new battery, or starter, or both. Slow cranking combined with low compression results in a non-starting diesel.

To me, failure to start indicates low compression. Did this tractor sit idle for a long period of time? If so, the rings may have unseated. You might try to put some ATF in each cylinder and let it soak in an effort to loosen up the rings.

Your tractor should have a CAV injection pump. There are timing marks on the mounting base of the pump.....should be set on *zero*. 

Is your intake airway open? May be a blockage somewhere. Does your return line from the injectors to the fuel tank produce fluid when cranking? A plugged return line will result in a non-starter.

OK, this is my 'scatterbrain' approach to see if we can find something.


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## Mikeburg (Oct 15, 2012)

Six Bales has it , I can't say any more.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

The fuel filter is that WHITE canister on the side of the engine, just behind the injection pump.. It "looks like" it hasn't been changed in awhile?? One VERY IMPORTANT "trick" to replacing it is> the top oring MUST go UP IN the filter head, NOT ON the filter.!!!
Another thing when trying to crank that engine>> the hydro's will interfere w/ the cranking speed.. Move the steering wheel back & forth while cranking the engine & see/listen if the cranking speed increases.. good luck.


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## Jennifer Clark (Aug 24, 2017)

sixbales said:


> Howdy Jennifer, welcome to the tractor forum.
> 
> Does it blow white smoke when you are cranking? If so, that is unburned diesel.
> 
> ...



Hi I appreciate your scatterbrain approach it gave me a lot of ideas to try so here is the answer to your questions does it Blow white smoke no I don't believe it's white it's more like gray and I am chatting it with a spray of ether into the air intake when cranking it and yes it does turn over and crank and sound like it's just about to start and then still nothing it

I do not believe the crank speed is slow and I know the battery is good it is a brand new battery and we have a jump box that we attach it to when trying to crank it over.

Yes it's at idle for years but we were able to get it to start to drive it onto the trailer to bring it home and we have started it several times since then and ran it for hours at a time and since we brought it home we have changed all of the fuel lines and tried heating up the black to see if that would help to start it also have tried starting it with ether and it sounds like it's very close to firing every time but doesn't quite get there the dial at the Cav injection pump is not set a zero it is set at 3 degrees BTC and yes my return line from the injectors produces fluid when cranking right the only thing that you've said that I haven't tried was to try and loosen the rings with fluid so I will give that a try and let you know how it goes any other ideas


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## Jennifer Clark (Aug 24, 2017)

thepumpguysc said:


> The fuel filter is that WHITE canister on the side of the engine, just behind the injection pump.. It "looks like" it hasn't been changed in awhile?? One VERY IMPORTANT "trick" to replacing it is> the top oring MUST go UP IN the filter head, NOT ON the filter.!!!
> Another thing when trying to crank that engine>> the hydro's will interfere w/ the cranking speed.. Move the steering wheel back & forth while cranking the engine & see/listen if the cranking speed increases.. good luck.


I appreciate your ideas I haven't tried either one so I will give them a shot and see where we end up we hadn't tried to move the steering wheel but I believe the cranking speed is just fine and I haven't changed the fuel filter in a while actually since we've got it but it's because we cannot find one do you know where we might be able to purchase one of those


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## Jennifer Clark (Aug 24, 2017)

Does anybody know where I can download a manual for this tractor


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

DONT FORGET> Pull the throttle to WIDE OPEN for cranking.. NOT idle..
You can get that filter anywhere.. any parts store will have it.. NAPA..


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## Jennifer Clark (Aug 24, 2017)

thepumpguysc said:


> DONT FORGET> Pull the throttle to WIDE OPEN for cranking.. NOT idle..
> You can get that filter anywhere.. any parts store will have it.. NAPA..


 thanks I appreciate that I know they might sound like silly questions but I am a first time tractor owner I was wondering if you might be able to tell me the part number so that I could give it to them as I cannot read mine it's been so long since it was changed it's rubbed off I'd appreciate it thank you much


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## Jennifer Clark (Aug 24, 2017)

sixbales said:


> Howdy Jennifer, welcome to the tractor forum.
> 
> Does it blow white smoke when you are cranking? If so, that is unburned diesel.
> 
> ...


Hi I actually was wondering that if you were to get white smoke and you said it means it's unburned diesel what would cause something like that and does that mean I need to do something different I appreciate it


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

If you are blowing white smoke whilst cranking, you do not have enough compression to ignite/combust the diesel/air mix. But (IMO) it should start with ether. I don't understand that.


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## Jennifer Clark (Aug 24, 2017)

sixbales said:


> If you are blowing white smoke whilst cranking, you do not have enough compression to ignite/combust the diesel/air mix. But (IMO) it should start with ether. I don't understand that.


What do you mean IMO should start with either and what do I do if I don't have enough compression how would I saw that or figure out what the problem is


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

It should start with ether (starting fluid). As I recall, you tried ether and it didn't start?? Did you squirt the ether down the air intake?

Diesel engines have high compression (400+ psi). This high compression pressure is what causes the Diesel/air mixture in the cylinder to ignite/detonate. If your compression is down below 300 psi, it will not fire.

You can do a compression test on your engine, but a regular compression tester can't handle this high pressure. Your local New Holland dealer may have a compression test kit for diesels.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Just Google ford 4500 fuel filter.. thousands available.. or go to Napa & tellum what you need.. the original P# is 7111-296 Lucas/Delphi part #..


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

OK, set the CAV injection pump at *zero*. That is where it should be set (mine is set at zero). Three degrees BTDC will give it more power when running, but makes it hard to start.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Well.......did you get it to start better??


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## Jennifer Clark (Aug 24, 2017)

BigT said:


> Well.......did you get it to start better??


No we haven't had any luck I have funny fuel filter and injection freshen test kit online to buy but I haven't had any luck quite yet do you happen to know a good site or store that I could purchase both of these


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2017)

here is a link to the 4500 parts manual. just click the select dealer button to go to your local NH dealer. https://partstore.agriculture.newholland.com/us/HINESEQUIP/parts-search.html#epc::mr49534 I've found NAPA to be a trusted source for filters, fluids, and such. I think I read you've recently bought the 4500.....you do need to go through all it's systems sooner rather than later, especially if it sat unused for any length of time. The NH dealer may not be the best place to do this..... If you have an auto mechanic that you really trust, ask him for a recommendation.... or a friend/neighbor who they use and are they happy with the work and price.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2017)

I recommend that you buy the operator's manual (I got mine on Amazon in the $20 range) for your tractor. It will show you where things are, what they do, outline a routine maintenance schedule, tell you what "normal" indications are. The only thing it's no good for is fluid types as Ford spec numbers are now meaningless.


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## duke7595 (Jan 23, 2012)

If the tractor started good when you bought it, than the problem is from the work you did.
Anytime you open a fuel line you introduce air into the fuel system. you also stated you replaced both fuel lines but did not replace the fuel filter.
I would get a new fuel filter installed and then start from the beginning, This means bleeding the entire fuel system form the fuel tank to the injector pump. You will find a lift pump handle that is used to bleed the system, continue to pump this handle (make sure the bleed screw(s) are open
until you have a steady flow of diesel fuel without any air in. This is very important, once the system is free of air close the bleed screws and make sure the pump handle is pused in toward the tractor. I think this will resolve your problem. Oh, make sure you purchase a manual which will show you many things and how to address them. Good luck, hope this helps.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

The bleed screw on the injection pump is by the nameplate..
Its a double screw, 7/16" body w/ a 5/16" bleed screw in the center .. you'll need a 5/16" wrench to break it loose.. Use the BOX END of the wrench..


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## phatomsys (Oct 21, 2016)

I think your problem is the piston rings are stuck and full of dirty oil I suggest you try cleaning them with first keeping the engine oil clean and trying to free them up whit oil you can open your injectors and pour oil in your pistons a good transmission oil might do the job just a shot glass full leave over night then start might work. Good luck you engine has low compression.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

"I" Know what you mean Phatomsys, but she may not.. He means, PULL THE INJECTORS & pour in some transmission fluid & let it sit a week.. THEN spin the engine over WITH OUT the injectors in, inorder to blow all the trans. fluid out.. THEN reinstall the injectors & try to start.. IT DOES WORK.. I've seen it first hand on stuck rings in a Case backhoe.. I took a compression test & all cylinders were 90-100psi.. The customer insisted it ran like a dream 4 months ago.. but the pump went out & he was gathering money to get it fixed until he found me.. I actually drove 100 miles to help him out..
I rebuilt his pump "on site", reinstalled it & checked his injectors.. The engine wouldn't start even w/ starting fluid.. I checked the compression & sure enough it was 200psi LOW.. NO WAY it was gonna start.. I told him about the transmission trick & he tried it.. He sent me a video of it starting & running a week later after using the "TRICK".. NOW I'm not saying its a cure-all.. just that it does work on stuck rings.. GOOD LUCK..
BTW> a shot glass full isn't enough.. the more the marrier.. you have to cover the piston enough, for it to run down the sides of it.. some pistons are bowl shaped & you have to fill "the bowl" before it'll run down the sides.. get it??


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

I have a Ford 3000 diesel. It took awhile to learn how to start it. It has a heater that will heat the intake manifold. I heat it for 45 seconds. The fuel shut off has to be open. The battery has to have a lot of amps and be charged. There is an excess fuel button (equivalent to a choke on a gas engine) near the fuel injector pump that should be pushed in. There is a fuel pump (different from the fuel injector pump) that needs to be primed. The throttle needs to be wide open. In cold weather, doing all this still makes it hard to start. 
To help you should drain water out of fuel filters, change fuel filters, and fuel pump and bleed air out of fuel filters and fuel injector lines. Adjust valve cam lash because unadjusted valves can make the engine leaky and reduce compression. These are the basics for starting an old diesel tractor. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tractor Forum


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## startinghandle (Nov 1, 2017)

have you checked lift pump as some years I had problems with my dexta as it would stop and I would have to bleed system and I could not find problem until I tightened 6 screws on top of lift pump and this solved problem and when I say tightened, the screws only moved very small amount also have you checked air intake system for restriction


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## startinghandle (Nov 1, 2017)

what I say now may seem silly but is worth checking and that is does the stop lever on pump fully return to run position


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

JGPenfield said:


> I have a Ford 3000 diesel. It took awhile to learn how to start it. It has a heater that will heat the intake manifold. I heat it for 45 seconds. The fuel shut off has to be open. The battery has to have a lot of amps and be charged. There is an excess fuel button (equivalent to a choke on a gas engine) near the fuel injector pump that should be pushed in. There is a fuel pump (different from the fuel injector pump) that needs to be primed.
> 
> 
> Forum


Sounds like you have an inline Simms pump on your 175 ci 3000. Some did but not many.
None of the 201 ci 4000 series used a simms. They All used a CAV rotary style pump. Cav pumps do not have the excess fuel button.


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