# Laminate flooring question...



## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Hey guys...this laminate stuff has me a bit confused...

I am installing Dupont RealTouch Laminate Flooring. I figured out how to slide and jigsaw cut the pieces for the standard "living or dining" type rooms to accomidate the doorway opening and threshold issues. 

The problem I have now is that I have a hallway to install that basically starts in two directions and has a partition wall that seperates it. Here is a very basic and crude drawing of it but I hope it helps. I am confused on which side to start and how to keep it going without making too many mistakes. Where to start, how do I keep the boards aligned without having to make ripcuts and ruin the tongue on the bottom side of the boards? Am I making this harder than it has to be? I am concerned since this laminate flooring is over 11" wide has 4 "boards" on each piece. Can someone give me some detailed insight as to the best way to complete this daunting project? 

Here is the layout:

<img src=http://www.tractorforum.com/flooring.GIF></img>
Thank you so much for all help! I just bought the rest of the flooring last night. The total sq foot for the hallway is approximately 250sq. feet. 
Thanks for everything!
-Andy


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## Durwood (Sep 16, 2003)

The way the stuff fits together Andy you really have no choice but to just keep interlocking it as you go and fit around the things you have to. The other alternative it to start another direction with a divider piece between them. I took some pictures of my floor to show you but for some reason i can't get the pics to come up on my computer. I have some old pics of my floor i'll try to post.


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## Durwood (Sep 16, 2003)

Another pic although it doesn't show you the divider piece.


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## Durwood (Sep 16, 2003)

Last pic i have.


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## JDFANATIC (Dec 28, 2005)

admin,

I have done a lot with laminate floors. Is that Dupont the one with the foam underlayment already attached on the bottom. If so, I just helped my brother install this. BTW, for what it is worth, Dupont doesn't make laminate flooring, it just private labels other manufacturer's material. I did notice it was very sensitive to chipping -- especially at the ends when you lower the boards down. Just be careful and go slowly.

As for the layout, the right way to lay laminate is to go from the left corner to the right and work your way back. If I were doing this job, I probably would start in the pantry closet (1), working my way back until you could get the first full length piece that would run from the office room to the front door. Then I would work from the corner by the office room (2). The doorway opening (3) will probably require that you plane off the groove (see pic of Stanley plane that works perfect for this. You will then use laminate glue (Mannington makes a really good glue for this) to adhere the last piece.



The last one shows a divider sort of what Durwood described. Often this is used when the floor gets longer than 20' as the laminate will move too much. Also for your question about keeping it square, since it is a floating floor, you can move it a little if you get off wack. Lastly, remove the trim first. Undercut the jambs with a jamb saw. And then, consider adding 1/4 round trim (you don't have to, but it looks nice).

Cheers

JDFANATIC


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Wow thanks guys for the wonderful advice and insight....truly nice work both of you....Thanks so much Durwood and JDFANATIC!
I had a problem with the flooring already today. I must have had a high point on the concrete foundation I didn't catch and the floor was moving (deflecting) quite a bit in one section. I tried to remedy it and it buckled and broke. Then I had to go in and replace the board...luckily it was a full length board...unfortunately it was about 4 rows in from the beginning.. :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious:


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## JDFANATIC (Dec 28, 2005)

Wow,

That must have been one heck of a high point! But your concrete comment raises a point: are you using a padding/vapor barrier? Concrete will give off moisture that will ruin a laminate floor. You need some kind of barrier.


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## mark777 (Jul 23, 2004)

The last one I did also had I small but very noticable hight spot. I had to take a 4 1/2" grinder and give it a gentle massage. I used a product that un-rolled vapor barrier with BB sized styrafoam pellets imbedded in it, before the hardwood flooring installation.

Geez Durwood, Nice job. I really like the grain and color too.


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by admin _
> *Hey guys...this laminate stuff has me a bit confused...
> 
> 
> ...


Decided to lay the tile the other way....so the flooring would be horizontal to the plane when entering the door and not give that "falling in the floor" appearance...plus it will make the work easier IMHO....I am planning to start by the front door L to R then go down from there to the hall, then end. I finished the living room and dining room today. What is the deal with uneven walls?
It is amazing how uneven alot of walls truly are. I had to contour nearly every single board along the wall to at least a small degree. Well, I wouldn't recommend the Dupont brand too much. I have used much easier laminate to put down. This version just sticks too much and does not slide/click into place easily. You literally have to move the last piece out of the groove EACH time you lay down a new piece....very annoying and for the price of this stuff....$69 a case!!!!!! (18.59sq/feet coverage per case) --- it should be made much better than it is.

Oh well....tomorrow, I will install 8 interior doors (6 panel), clean up and then cut & install colonial base trim and then start on the laminate flooring in the hall.... :cheers:

should be a blast --- mg: 

Oh well, LIFE IS A PARTY!
:band: artydanc


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

Andy, I have been laying this stuff for years, My favorite is mfg by Bruce now owned by Armstrong It is an oak ply 3/8th laminate and I have just finished my lake home !! It is a gunstock random width 3/5/7/ with pegs on each end!!

Squaring your walls is best accomplished by averging from the center of the area, I always leave a gap at each wall to allow for expansion in width and length!! Best to cut the last piece with the table saw on what ever angle is neccessary to allow for that 1/4 to 3/8 gap!!

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/Archdean/Hardwoodfloor001.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Really nice work there Dean!!! Looks great...


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

Thank you!! 

My dishwasher just peed all over the kitchen floor before the Christmas holidays, which provided the motive to remove the tile (didn't like it at all) and was looking for any excuse to remove it and replace with the same oak flooring!!! 

All complete now and all is "happy vile" in my little corner of the world!!

Just a relatively easy project that gives a very warm and solid feeling to our lifestyle!! Where a cowboy can feel at home!!


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## OleGrandWizard (Jan 9, 2006)

Andy, one elementary thing I learned is to make sure you stagger the joints. If there is going to be buckling or movement in the floor, it will definately occur at that location. BTW, did you install the proper moisture barrier for the concrete floor? Some of that wood like laminate will suck up moisture and buckle up big time.
Remember to also measure and align your floor to the shape of the walls and be consistent with the expansion spacing. You can always hide it with quarter round vs. show moulding if you have problems.


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Just found this reply, Wizard. I was able to stagger the joints OK and did put down the blue 6-mil moisture barrier. I never notice the foundation sweating or taking up moisture but I guess it is a common situation in some parts. Better safe than sorry. I will post some pics today hopefully when I get my office (temporary office) setup.

Thanks
Andy


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Lordy, where do I start? Refering back to the picture in post 1, I ended up laying down the boards in the shown direction...straight in from the door. I started up by the pantry at top right in picture and intersected with the boards coming over from the office room on the top left of picture. I had to do a little calculation to make sure that I would "land" at the same spot with the layout, but it is working out. Had some rather difficult cuts and with this darn laminate being nearly 4 PLANKS WIDE, it is hard to make any cuts w/o affecting the rest of the floor. (as all sides need to interlock) --- IMHO, this floating floor is more difficult than interlocking glue down. It simply moves too much and is VERY difficult to set long rows (such as the long main hallway) by yourself. In any case, I am about 50% done, but confident that maybe tomorrow, I will finish it all up. I have to either make or purchase some thresholds and transitions from the slate tile (about 1/2" taller than the wood floors) --- should be able to find something useful, I hope!!! 

Arrrrghhhhh....the fun of it all! 
:homereat: :homereat: :homereat:


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

Whenever I do this kind of work Andy all in my house manage to find somethimg that they somehow forgot do do miles away!! At least thats what I'm given as an explanation for the mass exodus!!


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## JDFANATIC (Dec 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by admin _
> *Lordy, where do I start? Refering back to the picture in post 1, I ended up laying down the boards in the shown direction...straight in from the door. I started up by the pantry at top right in picture and intersected with the boards coming over from the office room on the top left of picture. I had to do a little calculation to make sure that I would "land" at the same spot with the layout, but it is working out. Had some rather difficult cuts and with this darn laminate being nearly 4 PLANKS WIDE, it is hard to make any cuts w/o affecting the rest of the floor. (as all sides need to interlock) --- IMHO, this floating floor is more difficult than interlocking glue down. It simply moves too much and is VERY difficult to set long rows (such as the long main hallway) by yourself. In any case, I am about 50% done, but confident that maybe tomorrow, I will finish it all up. I have to either make or purchase some thresholds and transitions from the slate tile (about 1/2" taller than the wood floors) --- should be able to find something useful, I hope!!!
> 
> Arrrrghhhhh....the fun of it all!
> :homereat: :homereat: :homereat: *


admin,

Are you using the blue masking tape to hold joints in place until you get at least a few courses away? As for the transitions, the manufacturer should have a good selection of trim that will do the job and still match.


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

No, but the blue tape sounds like a great idea...will try that today.
Thanks for the tip.

Andy


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## Lamar Holland (Dec 28, 2005)

I did the same thing three months back. I did 40 year Pergo in two rooms, where they intersect, I bought a strip that is designed just for this problem


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## Lamar Holland (Dec 28, 2005)

I used the same stripping to go around the fire place, This stripping comes with Pergo so I would assume that other mfg's have a similar set up


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## OleGrandWizard (Jan 9, 2006)

Nice work, Lamar. I am sure that our trusty leader will figure it out and post some photos soon.

:ufo:


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Taping the joints helped tremendously while working on the floor. I don't really understand WHY none of these companies offer any advice on a REALWORLD installation. Anyhoo, here are some pics!
No seams on the floor! Except from entryway to living room. (T-Moulding threshold) --- floors run in different directions. Flooring used was Dupont Real Touch Elite (Walnut) 

<img src=http://www.saintroad.com/woodfloor/CIMG0259.JPG>
<img src=http://www.saintroad.com/woodfloor/CIMG0266.JPG>
<img src=http://www.saintroad.com/woodfloor/CIMG0267.JPG>
<img src=http://www.saintroad.com/woodfloor/CIMG0268.JPG>
<img src=http://www.saintroad.com/woodfloor/CIMG0277.JPG>
<img src=http://www.saintroad.com/woodfloor/CIMG0278.JPG>
<img src=http://www.saintroad.com/woodfloor/CIMG0289.JPG>
<img src=http://www.saintroad.com/woodfloor/CIMG0292.JPG>
<img src=http://www.saintroad.com/woodfloor/CIMG0345.JPG>
<img src=http://www.saintroad.com/woodfloor/CIMG0297.JPG>
<img src=http://www.saintroad.com/woodfloor/CIMG0344.JPG>


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## JDFANATIC (Dec 28, 2005)

Andy,

Again, very nice! The tape really does help hold everything in place. It's amazing how quickly you become adept at installing this type of floor, and how good it really looks! In Europe they have been using laminate floors for 15-20 years, and there, where home ownership is much less than here, when people move, they take up their laminate floors!


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Thanks JD...Why would they take the floors? How would it possibly fit perfectly in new home and doesn't it cost about the same to put down here? That is strange...well at least they don't take the kitchen sink! (hopefully)

yumyum


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## JDFANATIC (Dec 28, 2005)

Andy,

Europe is still very different then here. One of the most revered of professions (and, no, I'm not talking about the oldest!) is the auto mechanic (ranks right up there with a Doctor). Here we tend to get rid/trade-in our cars every several years, there they keep them for many hundreds of thousand kilometers. The same goes for things they buy for their homes. It is a much less throw-away society than ours. As for the laminate fitting a new home, there they don't obsolete a certain pattern, and so, can add on for a new apartment. Quite different. I was there two years ago for the first time and it was quite a education and eye-opener.


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

What part of Europe did you visit? I might be planning a trip there for late this year...November time...Will that be too cold?


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

Nice photos, Andy  

Nice Project.
New Tools.
Added Skills. (probably learned some new 4 letter words as well)!!
Pride in ACCOMPLISHMENT!!

What's not to like?? 


army


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Archdean _
> *Nice photos, Andy
> 
> Nice Project.
> ...


Thanks, Dean. 
Things I learned (not in order of importance):

1. Use blue/masking tape to keep joints together when laying. (Thanks JDFanatic for that wonderful tip - I cannot you how many times I practiced the 4-letter [email protected]#! exercises before using this)

2. Always cut less than you think. (especially hard cuts when you have angled walls, multiple walls, corners, etc) It is always possible to shave more off, but not too easy to add more when gone!

3. Take your time and use your tapping blocks and pull bars regularly throughout the job. 

4. Use a standard claw hammer (I used one of my Estwing 16oz GP hammers) --- and NOT a rubber hammer when using the tap blocks... It is SO much better and gets the job done fast!

5. When doing rip cuts leave enough room for the pull-bar to help you at the end of a run and at wall edge. 

6.. Make sure you have a good compound miter saw with finish wood blade, a good jigsaw, a good table saw (if possible) and small tapping block and pry bar. I used Lowe's 6" mini-tapping block (Precision Components "Universal Tapping Block" - Model 33129) as it WAS SO MUCH BETTER than the one sold at HD. The large one just doesn't work NEARLY as well. Oh yeah, dont forget the tape. I used some blue and for maximum hold w/o damage, I used 3" masking.

7. Used Titebond III, Ultimate wood glue on spots where I need to patch, couple threshold areas, etc. Also used matching floor sealant for hiding any minute cracks etc. 

8. Also...you CAN do a laminate floor with rooms with different starting points w/o a seperation or threshold...it did require a little calculation, decimal conversions and mapping, but it will work if you have the time and the processing power upstairs. 

Most of these might be common sense to some, but wanted to share. Thanks for the kind words and comments. Appreciate it.

1 QUESTION!
What is the best floor cleaner/shine product for laminate flooring?
Can't seem to find one I like yet. 

Smiles,
Andy


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

I use a product By Bruce made for my real wood floors , they also have laminate products also, I'll read the label when I get home tonight and report back then!!

It's a cleaner and wax together!! I like it and have (insert house mouse here) used it for years!!


"processing power upstairs." Measure twice cut once comes to mind!!


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## JDFANATIC (Dec 28, 2005)

Andy,

London, Scotland and Ireland. Really a great experience, although at that time the Pound and Euro exchange rates were really terrible against the dollar. Now your $'s will go much further.


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Interested in Ireland.....tell me more about where you visited, what you recommend as far as lodging...looking for a real visit not too touristy....you know like a village place.....staying in lodge/b&b is ok....want to see the country-side, pubs and the like... HAHA


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## Durwood (Sep 16, 2003)

Your floor looks great Andy. I use a swiffer mop on my laminate floor. They have the trigger that shoots out the cleaner and you wipe it down then. The laminate floor can't be wet mopped as you know but the swiffer mop does really well and there are different cleaner bottles that you can use in them. You can get it at Wal-Mart.

EDIT- it is actually called a Swiffer wetjet i believe. 

Dur


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## JDFANATIC (Dec 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by admin _
> *Interested in Ireland.....tell me more about where you visited, what you recommend as far as lodging...looking for a real visit not too touristy....you know like a village place.....staying in lodge/b&b is ok....want to see the country-side, pubs and the like... HAHA *


Andy,

Ireland was the gem of our trip. We flew into Dublin from Edinburg and rented a car (right hand drive and you drive on the left side of the road -- there is nothing natural about this combination). Then we drove to Limerick County where we stayed at Springfield Castle: http://www.springfieldcastle.com/ for the entire week. We had the entire castle to ourselves (the trip was a retirement gift for my father) and we had 12 in our party. The Sykes were fantastic hosts, and Jonathan a gourmet cook (we did two dinners and one breakfast with them, the rest of the time dining out). The castle has been in Betty's family for something like 600 years, and has fantastic stories associated with it -- such as when the IRA burned it to the ground early in the 20th century after Lord Muskerry's wife took her dog to church on Sunday. If you do go (they also have a cottage there) make sure you look at the picture of Lord Muskerry and ask about the bullet hole. Anyway, the castle is located between Drumcollogher and Broadford and close enough to Limerick, Cork, Killarney, Blarney, and the Shannon River attractions. The Ring of Kerry is an incredible piece of real estate (sort of like New England sea villages) that staying at a bed and breakfast there wouldn't be a bad idea. One thing you need to keep in mind, though places like the Ring of Kerry are only about 125 kilometers around the loop, it is an all day trip because of villages, stops, narrow roads, goats, and you name it! The Dingle Peninsula is also really neat and if you can find it, the Skelligs have like a fourth century monastery. If you like to golf: well I could go on for about a hour about that, suffice to say courses like Ballybunion and Adare (Adare is sort of like Westport, CT and where they were restoring a castle back to a ruin!) are fabulous! If you go to Blarney, you had better plan on stopping at the Blarney Wollen Mills and buying lots and lots of sweaters and clothes (you also might want to climb Blarney Castle and kiss the Blarney Stone). In every town, there seemed to be dozens of pubs, most with great Irish music and lots of burnt beer (yes, you can pints of cold brews you will be more familiar with). Ireland is on the Euro, and that has a better exchange rate than the pound sterling, plus the cost of living is much more reasonable there. All in all, it is a place I would go back to in an oginblink! A stop at the Irish Dresden factory is mandatory as are trips to Waterford and Cork. This is a country you could spend several weeks visiting and not see it all (and I'm just talking about the southwest corner of it. I'll leave you with one little humourous story: our hosts at the castle suggested we try the Mallard for dinner in Newcastle West (about a 15 min drive). We went in three cars and I went in first to see if they could handle a party of 12, to which the woman answered "splendid". I motioned for the rest of our group to come in, only then noticing how small the restaurant really was. Could they handle 12 I wondered? Meanwhile, the woman jumped on the phone, making several calls (I call them the "calling all cars" calls) and about 15 minutes later, after several sisters arrived (and a few nieces) they had a table put together for us. Well, it was the best dinner I've ever had. Gourmet just isn't saying enough. One sister, probably the oldest, was stationed at a desk, and as each of our group ordered a drink, dessert, or whatever, hand wrote out the bill (there was no cash register, and I still have the bill). That was her job for the several hours we were there, and when we went to settle up, were surprised that the tab only came to $292.80 Euros for 12! (at that time about $439 US). As for favorite pubs, in Adare it was: Bill Chawke (great music!) and in Ballybunion, the Bunker Bar, O'Hanlons, and the Golf Hotel were great! Adare also had a church that dated back to the 1200's that is still being used, and had services going on when we were there. Incredible!


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