# Do I need fenders for my tracyor?



## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

I have a Ford 3000 tractor. I removed the fenders because they were old and rusted and bent and were digging into my tires. I did not think they could be salvaged, so I they are gone. Somebody told me that It was really dangerous to not have mud flaps (fenders) because if I twisted wrong I could get caught by the wheel, pulled into it and run over. They stated,”To use this in 2019 would be absolutely the most dangerous thing ever!!”
Now I agree it would be safer to have fenders, but is it really as unsafe as this fella is making it out to be? I am working on a ROPS and thought that would be a much more important safety issue. 
Does anyone use their tractor without fenders (mud flaps)? 
If I make a ROPS I will have to make custom made fenders because factory fenders won’t fit after a ROPS is installed on this tractor. 


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## dozer966 (Dec 30, 2014)

Yes most definitely a SAFETY issue. I've been bounced around a couple of times and fenders did help me stay in the operators compartment. In my opinion you would be a fool not to have them.
A ROP is generally mounted on the same mounting bracket as the fenders and FEL on the axel. The components are layered. FEL on bottom of axel, ROP on top and then the fender all using the same bolts.


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

Thanks for the reply. I have a design and have cut the metal for the ROPS. I just need to weld it and then I will work on the fenders. 


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## dozer966 (Dec 30, 2014)

You can attach your federal to your ROP since you are building it. Keep human away from danger.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

I was going to say you could fashion guards to attach to the rops and this will give you two safety issues fixed in one go, there is always the addition of a lap/sash seat belt attached to the seat mount.


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

Has anyone designed their own fender? A post somewhere said the curved fenders for Ford tractors were only for decoration. I had the square ones but they were too beat up to be used. 


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

I see on one of the tractor parts sites that you can buy a fender for $125.00. May not be worth making your own for that much!


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## deerhide (Oct 20, 2016)

JGPenfield said:


> I have a Ford 3000 tractor. I removed the fenders because they were old and rusted and bent and were digging into my tires. I did not think they could be salvaged, so I they are gone. Somebody told me that It was really dangerous to not have mud flaps (fenders) because if I twisted wrong I could get caught by the wheel, pulled into it and run over. They stated,”To use this in 2019 would be absolutely the most dangerous thing ever!!”
> Now I agree it would be safer to have fenders, but is it really as unsafe as this fella is making it out to be? I am working on a ROPS and thought that would be a much more important safety issue.
> Does anyone use their tractor without fenders (mud flaps)?
> If I make a ROPS I will have to make custom made fenders because factory fenders won’t fit after a ROPS is installed on this tractor.
> ...


For what it is worth: Don't go without fenders......... I am not in favour of 'home-made' ROPS either.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

deerhide said:


> For what it is worth: Don't go without fenders......... I am not in favour of 'home-made' ROPS either.


My guess is you are not a welder/fabricator.
Building your own rops is within the skill level of many men here.
As to the fenders;
If you go to tractor house and look at tractors you wish you could afford they call them open station or "fender enclosure".
The enclosure part is important.
I have run a lot of tractors with no fenders. A lot of the old tractors didn't even have them.
But I like them on my own 3000.
If you can fabricate a reliable rops you could make a set of fenders. I would.
Make them out of 1/2" plate maybe. They would double as ballast - somerhing you need on a tractor anyway.


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## deerhide (Oct 20, 2016)

Ultradog said:


> My guess is you are not a welder/fabricator.
> Building your own rops is within the skill level of many men here.
> As to the fenders;
> If you go to tractor house and look at tractors you wish you could afford they call them open station or "fender enclosure".
> ...


You do need a fender to lean on if even only the right one!
I know there are plenty welders who don't work in the trade that are very capable. However I, personally would not recommend or suggest to anyone with a welder to make their own ROPS, ever. I do weld, I have had the same old 225 stick welder for probably 30 years. I wouldn't make my own ROPS even though I know the theory of it. As a job I sold MF machinery for quite a few years and have seen some awful poor welding jobs and a lot of 'let's try this' attempts at projects that needed engineered fabrication. If the worst happens you might only have the one chance to see if your home made 'roll bars' worked. This is my 2 cents worth.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

There are guys who have an old buzz box in their garage that can weld a little and guys who can make full penetration welds on heavy steel. For the former I would not recommend that he try to fabricate a rops. The latter could easily do it - even with a buzz box. Welding and fabrication isn't magic and rops manufacturers aren't magicians.
What bothers me are those who aren't fabricators always giving dire warnings not to try it at home.
I am not a fan of rops in the first place. Yes, I do understand their value. They save lives. But I would not ever have rops on a tractor. It would make my tractors unuseable for the things I do with them. I believe good common sense is far more valuable than ANY safety device.
Millions of old tractors have done many billions of hours of useful work with no safety devices on them of any type.
My thinking is all of those safety devices are prone to make an operator more careless or willing to take unnecessary risks because they are wrapped in a cocoon of safety devices.
I also think all this warning about safety and the fear of trying something - ie, making your own rops - is making us a nation of sissies and "can't do its" rather than "can do its".
That mode of thinking is predicated on too many ifs.
IF you make your own rops and IF your tractor rolls and IF your home made rops breaks you MIGHT die.
It's the old optimist vs pessimist thing. 
I do understand that in this dumbed down, highly litigious society manufacturers must be pessimists. But I still have great faith in my fellow man and assume he is smart and not dumb. That he doesn't have a death wish nor need to be coddled, cocooned, warned, chided and ultimately hindered. Especially by the uninformed, unfounded (pessimistic?) fears of others.
I am not telling you how to live or think or run your tractor. I do not project my lack of fear upon anyone. So I wonder why it's okay for others to project their fears upon me.
If a guy wants to make his own rops I say let him. Chances are he will never have the opportunity to test its effectiveness anyway.
Perhaps this is all too philosophical.
Well...
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty.
A philosopher doesn't care which the glass is but simply orders another round.


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

My Ford 3000 did not come with a ROPS and finding one is difficult. If I did find one it would not be from the factory. My son is a welder and can make one that I would feel safe using. I have an old Linde 305 welder that can do the welds needed. 


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

deerhide said:


> You do need a fender to lean on if even only the right one!
> I know there are plenty welders who don't work in the trade that are very capable. However I, personally would not recommend or suggest to anyone with a welder to make their own ROPS, ever. I do weld, I have had the same old 225 stick welder for probably 30 years. I wouldn't make my own ROPS even though I know the theory of it. As a job I sold MF machinery for quite a few years and have seen some awful poor welding jobs and a lot of 'let's try this' attempts at projects that needed engineered fabrication. If the worst happens you might only have the one chance to see if your home made 'roll bars' worked. This is my 2 cents worth.


When I get it welded up I will show you the finished project and the welds. There is a government website with plans for a non welded and just bolted ROPS for a ford 3000. I used those plans and modified them to replace bolts with welds. Welders on a welding forum laughed at my concern of welding a ROPS for a measly 2 ton tractor. They were all convinced that it would hold with no problem. As I mentioned earlier, my son will do the welds. 



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## Charles Smith (Jun 28, 2019)

JGPenfield said:


> I have a Ford 3000 tractor. I removed the fenders because they were old and rusted and bent and were digging into my tires. I did not think they could be salvaged, so I they are gone. Somebody told me that It was really dangerous to not have mud flaps (fenders) because if I twisted wrong I could get caught by the wheel, pulled into it and run over. They stated,”To use this in 2019 would be absolutely the most dangerous thing ever!!”
> Now I agree it would be safer to have fenders, but is it really as unsafe as this fella is making it out to be? I am working on a ROPS and thought that would be a much more important safety issue.
> Does anyone use their tractor without fenders (mud flaps)?
> If I make a ROPS I will have to make custom made fenders because factory fenders won’t fit after a ROPS is installed on this tractor.
> ...


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## Charles Smith (Jun 28, 2019)

I have a 1961 ford 4000 industrial with fel and backhoe. It doesnt have fenders. Its a pita to move from the drivers seat to the backhoe seat with them on. I dont drive it fast or over uneven terrain. I have old tractors that will start in gear and have other 21st century safety issues. But, if you put on your thinking cap and keep it there, you will be fine. Just have situational awareness.


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## LD48750 (Jun 25, 2016)

Ultradog said:


> There are guys who have an old buzz box in their garage that can weld a little and guys who can make full penetration welds on heavy steel. For the former I would not recommend that he try to fabricate a rops. The latter could easily do it - even with a buzz box. Welding and fabrication isn't magic and rops manufacturers aren't magicians.
> What bothers me are those who aren't fabricators always giving dire warnings not to try it at home.
> I am not a fan of rops in the first place. Yes, I do understand their value. They save lives. But I would not ever have rops on a tractor. It would make my tractors unuseable for the things I do with them. I believe good common sense is far more valuable than ANY safety device.
> Millions of old tractors have done many billions of hours of useful work with no safety devices on them of any type.
> ...


So nice to see someone that thinks common sense is better then government mandated safety crap.
I caution anyone from this board to NOT operate ANY of my equipment because the safety crap just may be bypassed or removed.


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## dmheil (May 21, 2018)

I don't want to sound like an idiot (but it may come out that way, please just laugh to yourself). I am probably the guy manufacturers of equipment put safety items on tractors. I never even sat on one until I was 61 years old. I then purchased a 55 HP LS with a mess of implements that I routinely use around my 17 acres of property. Since I know I have zero experience (or had zero anyways) I was extremely careful in the beginning and read all of the manuals prior to using each piece of equipment to make sure I understood its complete function and safe usage. Now 15 months later I am comfortable with the equipment and it's use. I have 255 hours on the tractor and understand it's capabilities very well. I have broken several items and fixed them and gone back to work. Along the way I have learned what to do and more important....what not to do. I have not had a problem where a safety items saved me from disaster but only because I took the time to study the instructions first. As I use my tractor I look at the ROPS cage and wonder if it would be enough in the event of a roll over. I have an air conditioned cab so my ROPS is a bit different than the roll bar behind the seat. Fortunately here in the panhandle of Florida things are fairly flat and I don't put my tractor at an angle where I risk a roll over.


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## Ed Williams (Jun 13, 2019)

My 1970 Ford 4000 had its fenders changed in its past life from the original oval fenders to a set of b 2 piece square fenders. I do not think the square fenders weRe even available until 1980. I am a real beliver in fenders if for no other reason than they keep you separated from the mud and cow poo that gets thrown on you during the wet season in the barn lot. The 54 NAA has the ovals, the 70 4000 has the square. The squares give much better protection, and give a nice rest to lean on when looking behind you at the implement, something I would be concerned about doing with no fenders.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

Ed Williams said:


> My 1970 Ford 4000 had its fenders changed in its past life from the original oval fenders to a set of b 2 piece square fenders. I do not think the square fenders weRe even available until 1980. I am a real beliver in fenders if for no other reason than they keep you separated from the mud and cow poo that gets thrown on you during the wet season in the barn lot. The 54 NAA has the ovals, the 70 4000 has the square. The squares give much better protection, and give a nice rest to lean on when looking behind you at the implement, something I would be concerned about doing with no fenders.


Ed,
Very nice looking tractor!
I hope my own 4000 looks as good when I get done with it. Mine is like yours but the row crop model. They used a different style than the all purpose like yours.
A couple of points on the fenders:
The 65-75 4000s and 5000s did not come with the oval fenders. (Except the Utility and Industrial derivitives of the 4000) They had their own type and are no longer available anywhere that I know of. Most folks call them "elephant ears" as they do kind of resemble them. 
The struts on the back side were prone to rusting out and they are very hard to repair. See photos.
As for the square type fenders that you have on yours, those came out in 1976 on the 36/46/5600s.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

Ultradog said:


> Ed,
> Very nice looking tractor!
> I hope my own 4000 looks as good when I get done with it.
> A couple of points on the fenders:
> ...


Ps, 
Are your rears 15.5x38s? They look like it. Mine came with 15.5s but they were completely shot.
I found a good, used set of 13.6s and put those on it. On 4000s with 38s 13.6 was standard with 15.5 optional. The 15.5s are the same diameter as the 13.6 but wider so they gave a little more bite. You could also buy them with 30" rears with 16.9 width being standard.


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## Ed Williams (Jun 13, 2019)

No. Mine are 13.6x38. The right one was pretty dry rotted, but it had the better rim. First time out brush hogging a very over grown field, I hit a stump or big Rock and the dry rotted tire burst along one of the dry rot seams. By the time I got it to the house, the tube was leaking.. Man what a job replacing the tire and tube, plus reloading 47 gal of ballast. I used the NAA and boom pole to remove and place the tire back on the hub. If my neighbor had not volunteered to guide the tire and wheel on and off the hub, I do not know how I could have done it by myself. I did find an outstanding tool in this fiasco. I bought a 71600 (new model) manual bead breaker. It was an excellent purchase, after I beat on the pld tire for 2 solid 10 hour days. The tool broke both beads in less than 10 minutes, including the time it took to turn the tire over. Very impressive.
Good info on the fenders. I got my info from an in-law who has a 1972 Ford 4000 with the elephant ears. Those are the same as on the NAA, and we're a real pain to rebuild. Just about wore out a cutting torch welder, and grinder rebuilding those. He wanted to know where I got the square fenders. I did not know they were not originals. They were in pretty rough shape, but easy to rebuild.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

I thought I would offer this rough drawing of a tractor tyre mount, simple to make using 2" angle iron for the base, for the vertical, 1 inch and a quarter diameter boiler or steam pipe, a pipe slide to carry the horizontal arm, another pipe slide to carry the tyre holder, a couple of bolts and nuts to lock the vertical and horizontal slides and 4 used sealed bearings of the same size (this will be the hard part to get bearings the same) bolts for axles to suit the bearing ID, being steel wheeled, it makes it easy to screw the whole assembly around on a concrete floor with the tyre mounted.
made and used this in my workshop for many years, to use, have tyre holder turned away from tyre, jack tractor up and roll holder under tyre, lower the tractor until the tyre rests on the holder base and rotate the holder under guard and tighten bolts, undo tractor wheel nuts and raise tractor a little and roll tyre and holder from tractor, place jackstand under tractor axle, all done, refitting is just as easy.


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## Ed Williams (Jun 13, 2019)

Boy, thanks for the info. I was looking at motor hoists at HF to see if one could be used for a tractor tire.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

The tyre holder is great for removing the wheel assembly away from the tractor and storing near a wall if work needs to be done on tractor brakes, axle etc., if the wall thickness of the angle base is thick enough, the holder will carry fluid filled wheel assemblies no trouble, if you could get steel wheels small enough, these could be used instead of bearings, it was mainly a no cost to build project, made with scrap steel. 
Repairing or replacing tyres is another story, we would do this with the wheel still attached to the tractor, and it did help with an mechanical bead breaker.


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