# steering part needed



## Knuckle66 (Jun 14, 2014)

Hi, I'm new to the forum and I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to put this thread.

I have a Craftsman II GT 6000 and finding parts for this thing has been a pain in my butt. I need a steering sector part number 120424X. Every place I've check says that the part is discontinued. I did find a sorta replacement but the part is almost twice what the original was being listed for and I have to modify it. That listing is here. http://www.stollerlawnandgarden.net/pages/CustomCatalog/Product/2575344

What I'm hoping is that someone has one of these dinosaurs hiding out and is maybe willing to part with the part. Thanks in advance.


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

**Disclaimer*, I am not a _professional_ lawn and garden mechanic or _guru_ of Craftsman knowledge.


The part you're inquiring about is on ebay from time to time, but they're about 45 dollars with shipping. 

I've ordered some of these parts only to find out that they do not have them in stock and they're no longer available despite being listed as in stock on the web site.

For example, one could try calling this place or placing the order to see if they actually have it. I suspect that these places are simply middle men who order the part from another distributor.

http://www.upstateoutdoorpowerequipment.com/120424X-NLA-SECTOR-T.html

In a couple of days or a week, I'll be posting a thread on my steering rebuild. I'm going to switch to part number Bracket 532191049 or sometimes just labeled 191049 



















The part number 191049 looks to be a direct bolt in. I suspect that the steering shaft will be about an inch or two longer than the factory one. I _suspect_ that these are from late 1990s - 2004 ish GT5000s.

Like I've stated in the beginning, I'll soon be rebuilding the steering on one of my tractors, a 1991 Craftsman II 20 hp GT6000.

Cheers,
bolillo


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

By the way, welcome to the forum.

If you can't find a member with a spare steering sector gear, you may find one on a parts tractor that has a bad or no engine. 

Good luck,
bolillo


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## stickerpicker (Sep 16, 2003)

Consider trying jackssmallengine.

http://www.jackssmallengines.com/Products/Craftsman/Steering/Steering-Gear


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## Knuckle66 (Jun 14, 2014)

Thanks I'll check it out


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

The steering sector linked by *stickerpicker *










is for this set up:










which is a re-engineered and completely different steering sector gear.

As *Knuckle66 *has noted, this part










will work as a replacement if he modifies it by drilling out the rivets on the gear and puts the original "idler arm" onto the new steering sector.

here's what steering sector he's currently searching for looks like.





















and these would be the rivets he'd have to grind off to replace the sector,















which is possible to do by using countersink bolts due to the steering sector having to mesh with the bottom of the steering support bracket/assembly.

This steering set up is flawed because the steering sector isn't properly supported, so there's a lot of lateral movement, which causes the steering sector to flex, and then the sector's teeth do not mesh properly with the pinion gear on the steering wheel shaft, and this causes the teeth to crack, chip, and in some cases completely break off. 

The early 80s tractors had no support whatsoever. Then Sears offered a retrofit kit to "stiffen" up the gear. This "stiffening" kit consisted of plastic or aluminum brace and some plastic/aluminum bushings, and while it may have in fact stiffened it up a bit, the band aid patch wasn't very good.

Consult part number 86 in the following diagram to try and understand what I'm talking about.










By the mid to late 80s, the stiffener, part number 86, was standard equipment on all the garden tractors sears sold. Eventually, mid to late 1990s, Sears sold tractors that had redesigned steering sectors that had a long shaft on them to alleviate the flexing problem, which is the 191049 complete unit I'm talking about, and the part *stickerpicker *linked belongs to this assembly. 

I followed a rebuild of a 1980s Craftsman II GT18/GT20 and or early 1990s Craftsman II GT6000 by larrybl and this was his solution to end the flexing. 

**Note* the following photos are courtesy of *larrybl*





















His solution was significantly cheaper than my idea to just replace the entire assembly, and probably works quite well. He's even included a sealed bearing, and a grease zerk, so that's some real genius backyard engineering at minimal cost. I don't think one would even have to weld the insert (top left part that accepts bearing in larrybl photos) to the steering sector. The long bolt probably keeps them working as one piece quite well.

Cheers,
bolillo


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## Knuckle66 (Jun 14, 2014)

wow that's a lot of info bolillo!! Thanks! I might just look into fixing this permanently so I don't run into this problem again. Does larrybl sell these pieces or do I just follow his directions to fix the problem? 
Right now I'm worried about just getting the part. And it's a good thing you mentioned the flush mount bolts because I wasn't even thinking about that if I go with the mod selector.


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

Try Googling AYP 120424X.
It still might be NLA, but at least you'll find it NLA in more places


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

*Knuckle66*:

You're welcome. I'm unsure of what larrybl does. I just followed his rebuild, which took place several years ago. I copied a boatload of his photos and saved them to a folder. It looks like he noticed all the slop and just modified his steering set up. Like *Bill Kapaun*'s stated, try googling the AYP part number, and you may find one. As I stated in my first post, they sometimes show up on ebay from time to time, or you could find a parts tractor. In my area, the Craftsman II GT18s go for 200 dollars in running condition. 

Should you modify the steering linkage from your opening post, this is the style bolt you'll need cause the sector fits flush with the steering support bracket.










To give an idea of how prolific these tractors are, this tractor was five miles from my door. I see this on craigslist within 20 miles of my door for 200 bucks at least once a month:

Here's the craigslist advert:









Here's how the tractor looked when I unloaded it:
















It even came with a set of brand new blades:









The center tractor in the following photo was picked up back in early May. It was listed @ 400, has a 20 hp Onan, despite the 44" being listed on the side, it has a 50" electric lift deck, cast iron front axle, 642 hours, steering is very tight considering most of the ones I've seen, but it's still a little sloppy due to the sector gear slopping about and the bell crank also has some play. This tractor was 20 miles from the door, so I picked it up:









Without buying a parts tractor, one can get by with the original set up. I put some 4.00-8 F2 three rib tires on the front of the tractor we've owned since new. It's not hard on the steering components anymore because the three rib tires make it feel like power steering, so obviously if it feels like the wheels are jacked up in the air, it's not going to break components like it used to with the 16 x 6.50 - 8 lawn and turf tires, which needed some rather powerful arms to turn. I was still using this tractor to cut grass until last season. The Onan powered tractor's replaced it, but here's a shot of the F2 tires.









I see a couple of these tractors each year with a blown engine or no engine whatsoever in craigslist adverts and they're asking 50 bucks, but other forum members continuously complain that all the Sears/Craftsmans are in Pennsylvania. 

Maybe it's the hillbilly in me, but I always like having an extra anything around just for a parts donor. 

By the way, what exactly is wrong with your current steering sector *Knuckle66*? Is it cracked, do the gears skip or does it have a chipped/missing tooth? 

Cheers,
bolillo


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## Knuckle66 (Jun 14, 2014)

My steering sector has a missing tooth. The steering had locked up on it and when I tried to free it the tooth broke. The reason it locked up was the bushing in the front is what actually caused this but by the time I figured that out it was too late.


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

Well, one could always buy the wrong part and modify it. The sector's teeth and bearing surfaces look to the be same, so if I couldn't find one NOS/used, I'd buy one of the 102787X sectors, drill the rivets out, put the old idler arm on, bolt it up with countersunk bolts, and be on my way.

Consult the following photos from an ebay advert against the original part.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6887-AYP-Se...253?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41704220fd

Please excuse my amateur photographic abilities.

1.371 inches per my digital dial calipers









Center of bolt hole on idler to center of hole on sector 3.75 inches









Some more photos for reference





















Although I forgot to take a photo, the rivets on my 120424X sector are 2.00" just like the 102787X sector in this photo:










Some more links for the 102787X sector:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replaces-AYP-Sears-102787X-Steering-Sector-Gear-/370568692468
http://www.mfgsupply.com/10-6887.html
http://us.ebid.net/for-sale/ayp-sears-102787x-steering-sector-gear-82020975.htm
http://www.powerlawnmowerparts.com/...ode=PLP&Product_Code=6887&Category_Code=30AST


It looks to me like the 102787X sector should work providing one drills out the rivets swaps in the old idler arm with the new sector. 

Despite the sector gear looking identical, the new idler arm will not work because the three rivets dictate that the idler arm must be moved 120°, when it only needs to be moved 90° for your application, so it's easier to just swap idler arms than to drill new holes.

Good luck with your decision,
bolillo


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## Knuckle66 (Jun 14, 2014)

Thanks bolillo, you know more about these mowers than I could ever dream to know. I think I'm just going to buy the new part and drill it out. I'll keep an eye on Craigslist in the mean time for a good donor motor. I've noticed that parts are becoming more and more difficult to find. 
I know I like the mower and I've been trying to take care of it since my Grandfather sold it to me. They have plenty of power and do a good job. The only problems I have is that they are loud and the steering is tight. But you said that you fixed a good bit of that problem with the 3 tread tires. I'm going to look into buying a set for mine once it's up and running.


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

You're welcome again. It _should_ work, and that's my limited ability to eyeball and guesstimate.

A word of caution, I am not a professional mechanic!

Excluding the Onan powered tractor, which is rather quiet, I have two with the 422437 18 HP Briggs & Stratton L head I/C engines, and each one has a different muffler. The one is rather large, while the other's only half the size, so it should come as no shocker, the smaller muffler makes the tractor deafening at wide open throttle. 

2nd gear wide open throttle is ear splitting in the small mufflered tractor, loud in the other, and the Onan's not too bad, but what I do is to cut in 3rd gear hi range at 1/2 - 3/4 throttle. I don't notice any difference in the quality of the cut, but the engine sure is a lot easier on the ears. There's always hearing protection if you must run wide open throttle.

Front tires:

The 16x4.00-8 F2 three rib tires will make a night and day difference. 

I cannot find a domestic tire in this size, so this place offers the best deal including shipping.

*Note, this is for a set of front tires and not just one. I've bought two sets from them within the past five years. 

http://www.greaterclevelandtire.com/servlet/the-1182/4.00-dsh-8-4P-Deestone-F-dsh-2/Detail

If you decide to go with the narrow tires, you'll have to change to 3.75 inch wide wheels because the 5 3/8 - 8 factory wheels are much too wide. 

This place has them, and I've bought both tires and wheels from them. 

http://www.millertire.com/products/lawn-garden-tires/4-00-8/8x3-75-steel-wheel-3-hub-3-4-bearing/

*Note, those wheels I just linked come with a complete set of sealed bearings. 

I'm unsure if you have a boss at home or not, so if this is getting a bit out of hand or you're just the frugal type, Firestone offers a 16x6.50-8 F2 three rib tire. This last type will greatly reduce steering effort, but it will not be as light as the skinny pair. The narrow rims keep the center line of the tire roughly 1.5 inches closer to the spindle and reduce the overall wheel track by 3", so obviously the narrower track placing the center line closer to the spindle will reduce the mechanical advantage the tires have on the steering components. 

The larger F2s can be found here:

http://www.millertire.com/products/...6-50-8/16x6-50-8-firestone-3-rib-front-4-ply/

And a thread with them mounted to the style tractor you're talking about can be viewed here:

http://www.tractorforum.com/f132/new-tyers-27501/

I do not have a problem with the skinny F2s tearing up the yard unless I go full bore with the wheel hard over at full lock. With the wide F2s, they will make a set of large "J's" in the yard if I do not slow down to 2 - 3 mph. If I try turning full lock at full speed in 3rd gear hi range, it puts a set of J's in the yard every turn. I don't really care, 'cause I do not have the botanical gardens... 

Good luck with your decisions,
bolillo


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## Knuckle66 (Jun 14, 2014)

The Firestones are definitely more expensive by like twice the amount 70 per tire and the other site is 40 for 2 now I'd have to buy rims but that's only another 60 dollars. I like the idea of the cheaper setup for sure. 
I also like the pics of the guy you sent over of the guy who put tractor tires all the way around and then had them filled! I might just have to do that too. My rear tires used to be filled many, many years ago back when they were new and didn't leak all out.


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

The guy in the thread I linked you to was me... I never did fill the fronts, but I always fill the rear tires. I use water on the tractor that never goes outside in the winter, and ballast that doesn't freeze in the tractors I have for year round use. 

The small F-2 tires are the bomb for ease of steering. I had a pair on my cart, so I swapped out the tire/wheel combo so I could use the thinner wheels. 

If you look around your area, you may have a garden tractor/yard equipment junkyard nearby, where you could look for the sector, rims, and other other knickknacks.

Keep in mind that the large F2 tires (16x6.50-8) will leave marks in the grass (they physically tear 1" wide strips of grass up) if you don't go slow through hard turns. It all depends on your mowing style. I cut up to 9 acres per week, so I cut in top gear for obvious reasons. 

I've got a few around me, so unless you're in the Arizona desert, I'd imagine that there's got to be something around you as well.

Cheers,
bolillo


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## Knuckle66 (Jun 14, 2014)

I only have 1 acre to mow. So you think the F2 tires are the best way to go? I know that I won't have to buy new rims that way.

I thought that was your mower but I didn't even look at the link to see that it was from the forum. lol 

Do you fill your tires yourself or do you take them some place? If you do fill them how do you do this?

Thanks again!

Knuckle66


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

I fill my own tires when I'm using water. The adapter fits to standard garden hoses. I take them to a shop to be filled with _"proper"_ ballast because I don't do it often. It's not cheap. It was nearly 100 dollars for the fluid and labor. Had I known that, I'd have just bought the fluid and filled them myself. I had a set filled about four years ago, and it was 70 for the fluid and labor. I don't often fill my tires. It's a once and done affair, so I don't mind spending the money. The fluid's 10.5 lbs per gallon. Water is roughly 8.3 and gasoline/alcohol/oil are about 6 lbs per gallon. It makes a huge difference, but I do quite a bit more than cut grass. 

If I were cutting grass on level ground and not hauling anything, I wouldn't bother filling the tires. If I didn't live where the temperature got below freezing, I'd just use water to ballast tires. I'd also be Leary about filling 2 ply turf tires with anything other than water because we have a lot of thorny bushes and locust trees around here, so 2 ply tires are easily holed in my locale due to the way _I_ employ the tractor for more than grass cutting.

The F2 3 rib tires will absolutely make the steering noticeably lighter. I never liked the way the wheel was so heavy with the lawn and turf tires from the factory. Even when I picked up our first one brand new from Sears back in June 1989, I thought the steering was somewhat heavy, but that's probably because I was coming from a Bushhog D-4-10. In my opinion, the stock lawn/turf front tires put considerable stress on a steering system which can best be described as slipshod.

If you can find a mower junkyard in your area, you may be able to find a set of narrow rims as they were common on lawn carts and early riding mowers.

I like the narrow 16x4.00-8 F2 3 rib tires the best, but I wanted to try the 16x6.50-8 tires so I could at least share my experiences with them.

Slime makes an air/water adapter, and they retail for roughly 10 bucks. I happen to have some electric fuel pumps lying about, so I have no excuse for going to an ag store to have tires filled...

here's a photo of the adapter










Cheers,
bolillo


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## Knuckle66 (Jun 14, 2014)

I've learned more about mowers in the last couple of days than I ever thought I would know. Thanks!!


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

To future readers, part number 191049 










looks like it will work, but it's not a proper solution. I'd suggest *larrybl*'s method for tightening up the steering sector. I'll post some photos later, but this part has plastic bushings, and the sector turns further in one direction than the other. 

Cheers,
bolillo


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## Cublover (Feb 20, 2011)

Bolillo, I have gallons of used anti freeze that I have considered using in my garden tractor tires.
It is safe for radiator hoses, so do you think it would work? 
The tire shop uses calcium chloride, but if it leaks it ruins the rims.
It get's into - numbers here 4 months a year so water is not an option.

I also use the small tractors for many things. The area I mow for the city has a lot of broken glass and it's usually high by time I get to it. Come to think of it, Most of the time when I use them it's for something else.


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## Knuckle66 (Jun 14, 2014)

I ordered the part so I'll post pictures once it comes in and how the project moves forward.


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

awaiting photos...

It should work, but I've been known to be wrong. Other than the idler arm, it looks crack on. I'm most curious to see how it works for you. 

I'm not sure when I'll do the steering on my tractor, as I've not yet decided which one I'm going to do first, but when I get around to it, I'll post threads. 



Cublover said:


> Bolillo, I have gallons of used anti freeze that I have considered using in my garden tractor tires.
> It is safe for radiator hoses, so do you think it would work?
> The tire shop uses calcium chloride, but if it leaks it ruins the rims.
> It get's into - numbers here 4 months a year so water is not an option.
> ...



Cumberland, MD. The weather, terrain, and towns where you are, look exactly the same as where I am due to being within the same ridge/valley of the Appalachians. I'm 25 miles north east of Harrisburg, Pa.

I am _no expert_. I've _read_ about other people using antifreeze, but I've no personal experience with it myself. I concur with your suppositions about its use. 

If I had free.99 antifreeze, I'd try that. While not as heavy as Rim Guard or Caliber M1000, the 20 - 30 odd pounds that are missing can easily be added by other methods, and since you've already got the antifreeze already on hand, paid for, and or free...

23x10.5-12 tires take 6 - 7 gallons when filled 75%. I wouldn't fill them more than 75%. 

Cheers,
bolillo


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## Cublover (Feb 20, 2011)

I get the used antifreeze from work. Usually 35 gallons at a time. I have about 20 gallons stashed right now.


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## Knuckle66 (Jun 14, 2014)

This site's delivery schedule is like your local cable company. 

Estimated Delivery: 6/27/14 - 7/16/14


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## Knuckle66 (Jun 14, 2014)

Here is how it went and it went well.


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## Knuckle66 (Jun 14, 2014)

And yes that is a John Deere seat, mine died and my buddies mower completely died so I got his seat.


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

I'm _glad _it worked out for you. The sector gear looked identical to my eye. I wouldn't worry about the yellow seat. They say red and yellow can kill a fellow, but red and black venom lack, so since it's not red and yellow...

Cheers,
bolillo


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## Knuckle66 (Jun 14, 2014)

lol nice! Hey Bolillo you wouldn't happen to know the size of the screws that hold the air cleaner housing in place would you? I lost all 4 of mine when I was working on the governor and I have been unable to find what size they are after several attempts at buying the wrong parts I'm getting a little frustrated.


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

Two of my Craftsman IIs have Briggs & Strattons, one has an Onan, and all three only use one wing nut to hold the air cleaner on, so I've no clue how Kohler does it. 

Good luck,
bolillo


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