# MF 165 - Startup after 4 years



## Just Wondering

Here is the Massey I'm now responsible for:









The serial number is 9A 759I0 ?? or maybe thats 10. I believe it was born in 1969.
There are several levers and all the gauges appear to be in good condition. I don't know if anything works yet as I have not started it.

What other pictures would be helpful to view?

And yes thats a 1963 Willys Pickup under the tarp behind it.

I've trailered the tractor to my place and am going through it in preparation to start it up.

Yesterday:
I replaced the fuel filter (near the carb).
Drained the fuel tank of a dark yellow-brown amber colored fluid. Yuck.
Filled with 1 gallon of acetone and drained that fluid.
Re-filled with 2 gallons of gas and let it sit in 90 degree temps for 5 hours, then drained.
The fluid is now running instead of dripping out of the line and is a light yellow - like pee.

Cleaned the sediment bowl.
Removed the pack rat nest in behind the front screen.
Removed the pack rat nest in front of the belt.

Scraped and brushed as much dirt and grime/oil/gunk from it as possible. I wanted to see any leaks after I start it.

Drained the radiator fluid. It was low, but nice and neon green. Took awhile to do cause drain hole at the pitcock was gunky at first.

Bought a new battery and removed the old one, but have not put the new one on yet. Don't want anyone starting it before I get things ready.

Cannot find the manuals that came with it. Having another go at locating them this morning. 

Covered the exhaust in case it rains today. We are supposed to have about 2 to 3 inches this week.

My questions:
1. Sources for manuals if I can't locate the ones that came with it.
2. Should I just stp treat the gas tank, fill it full and run it OR keep cleaning til it doesn't run yellow?
3. There is no obvious place to insert a key. Is this just a knob turn, fingers crossed kind of activity?

Thanks in advance
JW


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## Hoodoo Valley

Nicely done! I wouldn't fill the tank up. I'd put in just a gallon or two until you know that the tractor is going to run, so that if you have to drain the tank, you only need to deal with a gallon or so. I'd look at ebay for manuals. Also manuals here, and here.


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## Just Wondering

Is there a secret to keep the sediment bowl from leaking


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## Hoodoo Valley

The rubber O ring which will be flat, is probably shot. If you can get it out of the upper body, or get the size of it, you should be able to go down to your local hardware store for a replacement. Don't over tighten the bowl because if you crack the glass, you'll create a new problem!


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## Just Wondering

No o-ring. Probably disintegrated over the years and I wiped the remains off thinking it was dirt.

Its a 50 mile round trip to town on Sunday, so the project stalls until another day. The cost of gas would make that a mighty expensive o-ring.


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## FredM

you haven't got an old inner tyre tube handy ?, just a thought, you could cut one out of this for a temporary fix until you go to town, just a thought.


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## Just Wondering

FredM --
Doh! You are my new bestie Massey friend. I'll go try it after dinner and before it gets too dark!

I'm going to learn how to think outside the box I keep putting myself in.


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## FredM

even if you had some flat cork, you could use this also, the cork would last better than the inner tube, but the tube would be only a temporary fix to allow you to start the tractor and see what problems there may be.


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## deerhide

Nice looking one. The 165 is a MF favourite of mine...had a 65, a 165 and a 3165, all diesel. Note: the 165's with 'notches' in the rear axle flanges had wet brakes and use a particular diff oil.


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## RC Wells

Your post is very good and informative.

It is wise to replace the entire sediment bowl assembly. The original used flat cork, the new versions use fuel proof synthetics. The housing and bowl is slightly different on the replacement units. Ebay and Amazon has them for around $20. The rubber inner-tube will dissolve and create a fire hazard.

As for cleaning the tank, the best solution is to remove the tank and wash and dry it thoroughly. If the tank is full of loose rust scale it is best to fill it with detergent and water, then add small rough gravel or coarse sand and shake and roll it to knock the rust loose. Rinse and dry, then use a product like Kreem Products fuel tank liner.

The ignition switch and key should look something like the photo:








The original key had a thick plastic raindrop shaped key head, and tends to get stuck in the switch over time.

Manuals are readily available, just do a search. Ebay generally has old OEM manuals listed too.


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## roadpacker

You are on the right track to git it going again, but be aware that as soon as you address one issue, another will pop up.Just be like a chicken eating corn -one grain at a time. And be prepared to spend some bucks on those issues. If you would sell me that little Willys pick up, you could throw all that money on the tractor


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## Just Wondering

Its been raining for 3 days and I had two days of 228 mile round trip to Dallas and back.
Finally got to the inner tube gasket making effort late today. Why? Cause I completely forgot to stop and get a replacement while I was at 1) the hardware store, 2) the co-op, 3) tractor supply and the o-ring I bought at O'Reilly's was too thick.

But I have the old bowl back on and it didn't appear to leak.
Am letting it set overnight with gas in it to see if leaks over night.

I did get all the other filters I need -- oil, hydraulic, etc. So there are plenty of projects to complete tomorrow before I try to start it.

Roadpacker - that red willys has already had all the rat pills removed (6 inches deep) and new spark plugs, new wires. Bought a wiring harness for it and am trying to get the fuel tank off. Then I do the brakes and we give it a whirl. Got a donated 3rd row seat from an SUV to replace the missing bench seat in it. Its gotten warm enough to get to it again, but -- like that corn analogy - the Massey comes first right now.


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## roadpacker

Just bump along on the 165 as time permits, and it will start to shape up. When you get tired of the tractor go to the Willys and do a little to give you a break from the tractor. Before long, if all goes well, you can use the Willys to pull the tractor out when you stick it in a muddy bog.How do I know? Have four tractors and a 68 Jeepster Commando. Been there-done that. Good luck, keep posting with your progress.


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## Just Wondering

So its your number I need when I get stuck in the field next time..


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## roadpacker

You bet! Just call me and I will tell you everything you need to know on how to get a stuck tractor out. And if my information doesn't work, I will always think that it should have.


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## Just Wondering

Got the oil filter out and the oil drained.
1 1/16 open end wrench... I swear I walked back and forth to the tool storage 6 times before I got it correct. I'll be glad when my parts come in for the golf cart.

This walking is just too much healthy exercise for one person ..... lol

Course I then drove to the estate to get the oil and coolant and realized I left the keys at home in the other truck (hanging my head in shame).

Manana ...


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## thepumpguysc

LOL.. I KNOW THAT FEELING..
I walk past a 4000.00 golf cart every time I walk to the shop.. normally 5 or 6x..lol.
It sure "LOOKS" pretty sittin there tho..
I tell myself the SAME thing.. good exercise..


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## Just Wondering

And my husband is too excited...
he agreed to a 50 mile round trip to get 4 spark plugs.

Shaking my head in confusion. Thats 4 sparkplugs and 4 gallons of gas and then we ordered pizza (a luxury) on the way home.

The most expensive sparkplugs ever.

We tried starting it earlier and had no spark, so I'll go try it and see if that cures the problem.

Pictures uploaded later this evening when I lose daylight.

And no, I didn't get to work on the golf cart or the Silverado a/c cause he wanted to see if the tractor would start. Too funny!


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## Just Wondering

Must be the distributor or the plug wires.
Not getting any spark.

Pulled one new plug and put it in the plug wire..grounded it to the engine .. no spark.

Can't get the distributor cap off cause one of the screws is severely rusted.
This will drag on into late next week. Rain clouds are here this morning and I am booked til April 4th. Bleh


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## Just Wondering

Had to go out of town for 3 days and have another day of travel tomorrow.
This life thing sure does get in the way of tractor repair..lol


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## Just Wondering

Like a freakin novice, I left the ignition knob turned on which let the battery run down while I was out of town.
Sigh.
Then today topped out at 38 degrees and I just managed to get the goats fed before I came back inside to deal with the sinus infection and general tiredness.

Yet here it is nearly 9:30 pm and my ears have cleared up, my breathing is fine, and I'm wired for sound. lol Life is an amazing ride.

Tomorrow, I'll put the battery on the charger.


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## Just Wondering

Pictures:








before we trailered it home









This was in the sediment bowl before I cleaned it out.









The ID tag.









Fuel filter before









New fuel filter


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## Just Wondering

One of the 3 rat nests in this jewel. 
This is in the well behind the radiator and just below the alternator.









I can't wait for my manuals to arrive.
This thing has more levers than the 63 Willys pickup.
I have no clue what anything does yet.
Sure looks important though -- and rusted.









Passenger side









Driver side - cute emblem.


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## Just Wondering

But the single most awesome thing is the air filter goes in behind the emblem.
This one small thing is just totally cool.
It had no pre-filter in it -- I added one when I replaced the air filter.








Notice that very fine looking green cat litter box used to keep rain out of the stack..









Spark plugs looked well worn








Gaps were all over the place.









New ones look much better.


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## Just Wondering

Rear screw on the distributer took 2 days to get off. PB Blaster three times a day til it would break loose.


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## Just Wondering

I did a brief surface cleaning of everything and bought a new battery.
Changed the oil and filter.
Put in new air filters.
Removed all rat nests.
Replaced all spark plugs.
Drained and cleaned gas tank in place with acetone/gas - twice.
Refilled about 2 gallons into the tank.
Replaced fuel filter.
Put in new battery.
Tried to start it --- dead. Nothing.

Husband reminds me to see if it is in gear or not.
If brake is on or off.
Etc. Etc.

Checked to see if the lights came on - they do.
Tried starting it again. Just a single click.


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## Hoodoo Valley

Nice work! Excellent maintenance regiment there Bekasu. Best keep that shifter covered until you get the chance to replace that rubber boot. Entry point for dirt and water into your transmission.


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## Just Wondering

2 days later I got the distributor rear screw loose and pulled the cap off.
Cleaned out the inside and made sure the points looked clean.

Tried to start it again and I hear click, click, click,

Will not turn over.

So I check the carburetor bowl -- it has fluid.

Now I'm perplexed.


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## Just Wondering

Outward facing side of the carb.









Inward facing side of the carb. -- nasty.









Sooty looking in this opening









Looks a little like varnish here.


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## Just Wondering

So I decided to surface clean the carb as best I could on the tailgate of the truck.


















Better looking on both sides now.

So my question is should I clean/rebuild the carb
or
continue chasing the click click click of the distributor?

I'll see if Tractor supply has boots if not, steiner should have them.
Will cover things for now-- its been open to the elements for about a year--

I have the transmission and hydraulic fluids and filters to change but was waiting for manuals before I tried that.

What should I do to diagnose the no-start?


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## FredM

sounds like the contacts in the solenoid are dirty from arcing, if you want to try and start the engine, on the solenoid, place a heavy screw driver across both the battery connection and the connection that feeds into the starter motor, if the starter is ok, this then will swing the engine over and if everything is right in the system the engine should start for you, be prepared for strong arcing when you use the screw driver and make sure there is no gas leaking nearby.

you can also use a smaller screw driver to bridge across the battery connection on the solenoid and the lighter wire connection and this then will show if the solenoid is ok and the wiring could be at fault, if the solenoid still clicks, you will have to either pull down or replace.

The solenoid can be pulled down and the contacts filed, just a matter of using a soldering iron to unsweat the solder connections, in your case though, a new solenoid would be preferable.


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## Justwandering

Be sure to check the air in the tires and clean the steering wheel before you start.


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## Justwandering

Oh and make sure the purple wire is not broken


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## Just Wondering

justwandering --- lol 
The purple wire is for the space ship..
Air in the tires? What tires?

JW


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## FredM

I just increased the photo size to have a look at the starter motor and solenoid setup and I think I can see the fuel sediment bowl just about above the starter system, I had thought the fuel supply was on the opposite side to the starter.

to test the starter in this case and to be safe, I would remove it from the tractor, you can still test the solenoid like I suggested, if you have a jumper lead set just connect the positive to the battery positive and the other end to the battery post on the solenoid, the negative to battery negative and the other end to the mounting flange on the starter and bridge the poles as I suggested previously, hold the starter firmly as there will be a torque reaction in the starter motor.

we have to be safe around gas, if the tractor was diesel powered, it wouldn't have been a worry.

another thought, if you remove the starter, you could check the shaft for dryness or a stuck Bendix drive, this will give stutters too at the solenoid.


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## Just Wondering

I took additional pictures of the starter and it has some of the nuts that are rusted.
Could that be causing a problem?


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## FredM

not so much as the nuts being rusted, but if the nuts are clamp nuts holding cable lugs to the solenoid, a possibility, where the starter motor bolts to the bell housing, there may be corrosion from being assembled for a long time, this is unlikely but possible.

make yourself up a lead long enough to clamp onto the solenoid where the starter switch wire attaches to, and then with the other end press this onto the positive terminal of the battery, doing this will bypass the electrical system and if the solenoid chatters doing this, then the solenoid will be the problem, now if the starter works with this jumper, you will have to check the wiring and the starter switch.

And sorry.... I have given you a bum steer, bridging the two heavy poles on the solenoid will make the starter work but wont throw the Bendix drive out, so if you take the starter off of the tractor, bridge across the battery pole on the solenoid to the starter switch connection on the solenoid and this will energise the Bendix drive mechs and power to the starter.

if you follow my second paragraph, this would be the better way to check the solenoid.


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## thepumpguysc

I've been following along.. {quietly}
& all I can add is, WOW.. what a great job..
I would have bet money you would have needed to replace that carb..just from the pictures it looked like the bowl was just about rusted thru..??
& I don't know weather it was the camera angle or what, but the threads on the new plugs looks longer than the old ones..?? YOU BETTER MAKE SURE on that one.. bad things can happen if the piston hits the plug..
Definitely chase down the "click" before digging any deeper.. no sense in trying to diagnose a "no start".. if you cant get it to crank/turn over.. 
Keep up the GREAT WORK & thank you for the pictures..


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## Just Wondering

Had no internet for three days...
Duty calls for me all day Tuesday..

Bought a new coil and found that the local coop does not sell new plug wires.
I'm going into town tomorrow so I'll get some new plug wires. I noticed that two of them had holes just where the boot narrows down so it would let water into it. Figured I shouldn't have rotted plug wires if I've invested so much time and $$ in the rest of the electrical.

I've noticed several things that are different about the new parts vs the old parts.
The Prior Owner used what was convenient (e.g., 3 row tire on the front right and a 6 ply trailer tire on the front left). It wouldn't surprise me that the spark plugs were out of some other vehicle-- what was convenient.

I will double check the plugs though. 

I'm pondering getting a rebuild kit for the carb.
I've never taken a car apart and rebuilt one before but unless I have a fuel problem, I'd rather continue this journey and save my tedious time for checking the brakes.

Still seems like a spark issue.
I have a neighbor rancher that said he could come over and check it for me in two weeks (spring is a busy time). 

Wednesday will be a more productive day. Hold on another 48 hours and I'll have some new pictures!


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## Just Wondering

I forgot to mention... I did buy a new belt based on what the catalog said I should have.
It was way too long

So I took the old one down there and exchanged it for a shorter one.

Hmmmm .... I should really compare those spark plugs more closely.


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## FredM

count the threads on the old and new,--- looking at your photos, I counted approximately 11 threads on the old and new, you having them in your hands will be able to tell much better, another way is to hold the threaded end of the new plug to the threaded end of an old plug, base to base, or better still, cross reference with a spark plug book or even Google.

Did you get the starter to run ??.


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## Just Wondering

Got this weeks projects finished at the estate.

Yesterday I got the new coil installed.
Today I put the carb back on.
And then went to town to exchange the shorter belt for one just a wee bit longer.
This is just like Goldilocks...

I also decided to get a replacement for the 5 inches of exhaust hose that connects the carb to the exhaust system. Course it only comes in a 14 inch piece and I have to cut it down.

The battery is recharged.

Tomorrow the a/c guy shows up to figure out why ours isn't cooling.

Ready for a new attempt at starting the Massey tomorrow.

And best of all, I found the Prior Owner's Operator's Manual!!!!! 
Exciting reading this evening..


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## Just Wondering

My next two questions:
1. Do I just use a hacksaw to cut the new exhaust hose?

2. Is there a secret to getting the belt on? 
I sat on the tire and snaked it over one fan blade at a time -- usually took a couple of tries to get it over the fan blade because it is so tight between the blade and the fan shroud. There's not much distance between the fan and the radiator and I was trying to be careful not to ding the radiator. Seems like there should be an easier way.


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## Just Wondering

I connected the battery this morning.
I connected the choke cable this morning.

There is a little bit of sediment in the fuel bowl. Makes me think the gas tank has rust in it.

I tried starting it and it still won't start.

I'm thinking it is something to do with the starter.

It tries to crank and then I turned the ignition off.
It tries to crank and then I turned the ignition off.
Then I try it again and it has a small thud and dead silence.

Check the battery. Its charged.
Check the battery with the lights on and its giving amps to the lights.
Turn the lights off and the charge stays steady.
So the battery seems okay.

Turn the ignition again and dead silence.
Tapped on the starter (gently) 
Tried starting it and it had the small thud again then dead silent.

All the bolts have been pb blasted in anticipation of starter removal.

AC guy is coming this afternoon, so I'll have to put this off a bit while life gets in the way.


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## Just Wondering

I forgot to add one other piece of info.

I was able to scrap enough dirt off the body to find the hydraulic/transmission fluid dip stick.
There is plenty oil in it.
The oil is dark grey and seems to have very small particulates.

What is the secret to getting in the seat?
Should I be standing on one leg and get on it like a horse -- swinging my leg up and over the seat? That seems so unladylike and requires more balance (or maybe practice) than I seem to have.

Don't tell me I'm spoiled with my zero turning mower or the more open deck clearance on the 45hp Mahindra.


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## FredM

time to drop the transmission oil and change the filter.

With the clunk from the starter, I would get a large shifter and place this onto the retaining stud on the lower crankshaft pulley and try and turn the engine, if the engine turns ok, you will have to remove the starter motor and check this out.

remove the earth connection from the battery when you do this, you don't want high amps arcing around the chassis when you disconnect the positive lead from the starter.

you would mount the tractor from the left hand side like a horse, use the steering wheel as a support and when you are standing on the footplate, place both hands on the steering wheel in the steering position and manoeuvre your right leg through the obstacles, if you were to shift the main transmission lever to a forward gear position, this may be easier.


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## Just Wondering

Alright ... the obstacle problem is me leaving all the levers in neutral so the tractor won't move if it actually starts. I should shift them into gear before I get off so my big foot can swing through there. Thank you. I was tired of the guys making fun of my 'style' getting on and off the tractor.

I do have more filters that need to be installed. After the rain goes through this weekend, I'll see about changing the remaining fluids.

If I don't have a 'large shifter', could I disconnect the battery, put the tractor in low gear and pull it a few feet with a tow rope to see if the engine pulley rotates?


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## dozer966

I believe fredm is suggesting that you make Shure the engine is not seized. Take a long ratchet or a breaker bar with the appropriate size socket and put it on the end of the engine crankshaft . The large belt pulley is bolted on to and see if you can rotate the engine by hand. If you can't the engine is probably seized and this is why the starter won't turn over. Make sure you disconnect the plug wires before you do this so it won't have a chance to start and hurt yourself. To pull start the tractor it hade been sitting for menny years so there is little to no oil on the internal parts. If you can turns it over with the starter several times then you would have a better chance that oil started moving through the system.


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## Just Wondering

I'll bet I can find a large ratchet and put a breaker bar on it to try and rotate it.

Rain is coming in at 9 am so I will have to wait until noon to try that. Dang weather.

Thanks for the clarification dozer.


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## Just Wondering

I am standing at the front of the tractor looking at the radiator.
Do I rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise?
JW


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## FredM

clockwise

when I mentioned shifting the gear lever to a forward gear, you would do this while mounting the tractor and with the tractor not running, it would be silly of me to suggest doing this if you had the engine running JW.

if you decide to tow the tractor, use second gear or even third gear high range, otherwise using lower gear ranges could load up the gear train too much and cause damage.

it is a bit hard to define the clunk you mention, this could even be the starter motor Bendix drive stuck into the ring gear on the flywheel and this does happen, and if the Bendix is stuck, that could be the cause of the clunk.

I would have had the starter off the tractor long ago just to check out the workings, you can't define any problems unless you know the starting system is working as it should.

you can also use a short length of insulated wire with the insulation removed about 1/4" on each end and use this to bridge between the battery cable lug on the solenoid and the starter switch wire near the lug and if the starter is ok, this then should crank, if you get nothing more than a clunk, then you will have to remove the starter.

give it a short tow and see if the engine is free, and if the Bendix is stuck, the short tow will free this too and you could then try the starting system again to see what happens.


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## Just Wondering

Fred -
Thanks for the helpful guidance. You are a treasure.

I was hesitant about removing the starter until I had figured out the final hydraulic fluid filter change.

I have zero understanding of starters so it is still intimidating for me; however, I'm going out this morning and trying the engine rotation since the rain went west of us.

JW


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## dozer966

JW. Do not be intimidated. It's just a big chunk of metal. As others have mentioned disconnect the ground (-) cable from the bateryie so the positive will not arc when you take it apart. I suggest you take pictures before you take it apart so you have a reference to look at when you put it back together. If both cables are the same color you can put tape on one of them to identify which goes where. I have also used tiewraps to identify things. Like I said it's hevyh, so be careful. Once it's out post a picture of the starter and it's connection and someone will tell you how to do a bench test. A large vice would be preferable for this. Do not bang or drop the starter this could damage the magnets inside. If you have a alternator and starter rebuild shop near by they can help you with the bench test and replace enny parts needed instead of buying new.


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## Just Wondering

Here we go.

I did remove the starter (3 large bolts).
Took pictures of the wires (all different colors and sizes) before I removed it.

The interior sprocket thingy in the starter rotates freely. (picture below)
The interior of the tractor has a big gear and it looks like all the teeth are there. 

I put a t-shirt in the hole and covered it all with a plastic trash bag since its supposed to rain this afternoon.


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## Just Wondering

Got a big, heavy chain and took the chevy to the tractor.
Husband got on the tractor with some difficulty (tall first step) and juggled the shifters until it was in a higher gear.

Chained it up.

Picked out a lipstick to mark the belt.
I chose L'Oreal 908, Sparkling Rose. Light enough to see it, but riche enough to coat it well.

Got in the Chevy, put it in 4WD and moved forward about 5 feet.

Got out and checked and husband said he heard the flywheel clicking-- or something like that.
I checked the belt and could no longer see the lipstick.

I believe the engine is not seized.


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## Just Wondering

pictures will have to wait... rain fade is causing pitiful internet connection and its too limited to get pictures uploaded just now.

drats


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## Just Wondering

Starter before I began and it is obviously upside down. drats








After starter is out and sitting on the tire -- the sprocket thingy on the inside rotates easily.









Inside the tractor housing where the starter was removed. I saw part of a big gear and plenty of teeth.









I marked the belt with L'Oreal Sparkling Rose lipstick

You'll just have to trust me that the belt moved.
I've tried several times to upload the last picture but the interweb gods forbid it today.

What should be my next step now that the starter is off the tractor and I believe the tractor motor is not seized? Take it to O'Reillys and let them test the starter?


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## FredM

now that the starter is away from the fuel tank and fuel filter, if you have a reasonable set of jumper leads, place the starter motor on the left hand side footplate or better still if the jumpers are long enough on a board big enough so the starter is not in the dirt and connect the positive jumper to the positive post of the battery and the other end to the positive post on the solenoid, the negative jumper on a good earth on the tractor (battery not disconnected) and the other end of the jumper to the starter motor mounting flange, with a small screw driver, place the end onto the solenoid starter switch connection and holding firmly, bring the shaft of the screw driver onto the positive jumper jaws, have your husband hold the starter firmly when you do this because of torque reaction in the starter if the starter is good to go.

if the mechanicals and electrics are OK, you should see the Bendix drive shoot out to the start position (keep hands and fingers away from this area) and the starter armature should then rotate at a reasonable rate of revolutions, when you remove the screw driver from the power source, you will see the Bendix drive return to its home position and the armature will stop spinning, --- if the starter works ok, don't hold the screw driver on the solenoid connection too long without load on the starter motor but use a touch and remove sequence like turning a light switch on and off.

if the starter doesn't run from that test, remove the positive jumper from the battery and from the positive solenoid post, remove the negative jumper from the starter, --- you should be able to connect the positive jumper to the lower connection on the solenoid, --- this is the heavy lead that goes into the starter motor body, make sure the positive jumper doesn't earth out on the starter motor body, because we are now going to use the negative jumper jaws to touch the starter mount flange, doing this should make the armature spin and we bypass the solenoid.

if the first test doesn't make the starter spin and the second test does, then we can safely say the solenoid is at fault.

we can do a test on the solenoid if you want, but I will let you digest what I have written so far.

I got a chuckle with the use of your lipstick.


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## dozer966

Way to funny. Some of us might loose you on description and procedures but you sure lost me on that lipstick description.lol


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## Just Wondering

Took the starter to O'Reilly's and had it tested.
Its good to go.
(was worried about having husband help hold/test it since he has a defibrillator/pacemaker in his chest and one wrong move would cause major issues for his heart).

Now my plan is:
1. wait for the rainy day to leave on wednesday, take him to the doctor on thursday
2. friday I can reinstall the starter 
3. double check/clean wiring
4. wait til my books come in next week and see if I can troubleshoot the remainder of the electrical system

Its a plan.. subject to change at a moment's notice. lol


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## Just Wondering

Today we stopped by OReillys on the way back home and I exchanged the new belt I bought.
54 inches is what the catalog said (too large)
52 inches is what the counter guy measured with a regular tape measure (too small)

Today I got a 53 inch belt and will see how easy it goes on the tractor tomorrow.

(this is the 'Goldilocks' technique of belt shopping) LOL

Still waiting for my books.
Will clean all the current electrical leads as well.

JW


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## FredM

without being offended, have you loosened the top alternator clamp bolt and pushed the alternator toward the engine as far as this will go, you may have to also loosen the alternator's bottom pivot bolt so it will be a little easier to shift.


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## Just Wondering

No offense taken.
I loosened the top bolt of the alternator and moved it as close to the engine as it would go.
I've had the old belt off and back on 4 times now.
Once to get to the rat's nest and three times for auditioning new belts.

I can say that threading the belt over the fan blades is not one of my favorite things.

I kept wishing there was an idler pulley. (but then I just discovered what that was on my 87 Chrysler and it was a joyous moment).

Going out to put the starter back on and clean all the contacts.
Change out the belt.
And I bought a legitimate sediment bowl gasket so I'll change out the inner tube temporary gasket as well.

More info later this afternoon I hope.
JW


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## Just Wondering

BAM!!!!!

I super cleaned the contacts on the battery and the leads to the starter.
The housing on the solenoid is busted -- it got a little too heavy for me and I dropped it.
I only cracked and busted part of the end thats plastic -- not the metal housing.

I covered it with a small section of plastic bag for right now.

Tried starting it but it was still doing the same thing. Would not turn over, but would crank. You could hear the air huffing out of the stack.

Checked the fuel at the carb and it would drain out of the bottom, so I figured gas is at least getting to the carb.

Then my brother walked up and I asked him to help. 
Yep.
Gave him a can of starter fluid and asked him to spray it in the air filter.

Then laughed and laughed while he looked for the filter....finally I played 'hot and cold' and he figured out the emblem had a hinge. Good times.

He sprayed fluid in it and nothing doing. Then he asked me if I had the throttle open some and if I had choked it... well.. no... why would I give it any gas? Doh!

So I pulled the throttle a little and pulled the choke a little and he sprayed the starter fluid a lot and 
BAM!!!!!
I had a running tractor --- right up until it used up all the starter fluid...

I'm thinking I have a fuel delivery issue. 
Could it be getting to the carb bowl but not out of the carb?

What's my next move?

(dang this was an exciting evening...I'm still grinnin!)


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## RC Wells

You have come a long way, congratulations are in order.

In response to your question regarding fuel to, but not through, the carburetor; it is real common for that to happen on carburetor equipped tractors. It can be a host of reasons for the carburetor to not be functioning, ranging from stuck float valve to plugged jets, to the needle adjustments for the jets being set too tight.

Since the tractor was not running for some time, I would remove and disassemble the carburetor. Take lots of photos as you go, it will save time in the long run when you reassemble the carburetor. Take a look at the internal condition. If the metal is corroded it will be best to just get a new carburetor. If the metal is sound and there is no white deteriorated metal, it can be a candidate for rebuilding. 

If you opt to rebuild, thoroughly clean the internal components and passages. If you can find a used acupuncturists needle or two, they are real handy for clearing the old varnish and sludge out of the jets. I do not recommend attempting to remove the jets on one that old, as nine times out of ten they will destroy the carburetor body, just attempt to clean them. Most times a good carburetor cleaner spray will do the job, get a non-foaming cleaner (I use the stuff sold for Honda motorcycles) and wear Nitrile gloves and goggles, the good stuff can burn skin and eyes.

You may need a carburetor kit, if so get the Zenith model number off the carburetor and check with a vendor like Steinertractor.com. If the carburetor is damaged internally, or the shafts worn to the point they are sloppy, just get a replacement and save a lot of frustration.


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## Just Wondering

One last funeral to attend today and a run to the drug store this afternoon, then I have enough time this weekend to pull the carb off the tractor and clean it because I FINALLY got my rebuild kit for the carb.

Taking a leap of faith that it just needs a wee bit of cleaning.

This will be my very first carburetor rebuild so lots of pictures and taking my time, I'm expecting a successful end result.


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## Just Wondering

What an amazing morning!

I started around 7:15 am and finished about 9:00 am.

I left the carb generally in pieces soaking in acetone overnight.
Much, much cleaner this morning.

After an evening of reviewing some videos (finally some decent bandwidth)... I realized there were more fiddly bits to remove to properly clean things.

So this morning I removed many fiddly bits and cleaned up screws, bolts, blew out the holes, scrubbed residue off surfaces and took many pictures. You'll have to wait for the pictures, cause I need to get this back on the tractor before wasps and dirt dobbers start building in the openings.

The funniest part was when I spent 10 minutes adjusting the floats and measuring over and over again to get them juuuuuuuuusssssstttttttt right. Put everything back together and once again look at the directions and all the left over parts.

Hmmmmm.... drats! I left out the main valve that sits under the float hinge-- whatever that's called. Parts list is downstairs and I'm upstairs cooling getting breakfast. I started laughing so hard. Well duh ... no wonder you had to spend 10 minutes adjusting the floats --- because you left one of the most important parts out that would greatly affect the floats. 

I then took the body apart and adjusted the floats (again) and put it back together.

AND THEN I realize I forgot to put the gasket in.... too funny. I laughed so hard I was crying.

I (AGAIN) took the body apart and removed the floats, put on the gasket, put the floats back on and put it back together.

Still looks awesome in my naive opinion.

Going to eat and then go put this back on the tractor to see if it will start.

Go team go!

JW


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## Just Wondering

I ate, then realized I had to go back over to get the other prescription and the gasket/screen I bought for the sediment bowl is MIA. Means a stop for a replacement.

Now its freaking hot outside so I'll wait a few hours to see if this effort pays off.
Besides 'The Good, The Bad, The Ugly' is on. Good movie to take a nap with!.


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## FredM

You have great determination "Just Wondering", hopefully your rewards are just around the corner very shortly and I am sure that the many on this forum that have been following your progress will feel the same too.

Can't wait to hear your baby come to life !!.


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## Just Wondering

9:37 pm and I had to give up ... too many bugs..

This was an evening of 1 success and 1 failure.

The sediment bowl filter screen and sediment bowl gasket were successfully installed and once tightened enough -- excellent!

But the carb --- two thumbs down.
Squirted some starter fluid, tried starting it about 4 times and then gave up cause I could smell gas.

The gas was streaming ... not dripping down the backside of the carb... the side next to the engine. 

It was difficult to see where it was coming from because it was on the backside, but I think it was coming from the gasket seam.

I thought perhaps the screws holding the two parts (bottom bowl and the top) were not tight enough; however, I tried turning them with a screwdriver but they were all very tight and gas continued to stream.

Went to the other side and shut off the gas.
Came back around and pulled the cotter pin on the throttle to release it.
Loosened the the clamp for the gas line. 
Loosened the clamp on the exhaust side.
Loosened and removed the two bolts holding it to the bracket and pulled the carb off.

It was totally full of gas.
Not just the bowl but gas plumb to the top.

What in the heck did I do wrong?

I left it draining out at the base of the tractor to keep the fumes from the house. I'm fumed up enough (so to speak).

Will pull it apart tomorrow and see if there is an obvious issue.
Definitely failed on this first attempt. 

If you have any suggestions, let me know.

JW


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## FredM

you will have to pull the float and float needle again, check the pointy end of the needle and see if this is smooth all around the taper, sometimes with age, a ridge will form on a full steel needle taper and this will cause flooding.
Also check the needle seat for an obstruction, if the needle can't seat properly, this will also cause the flooding.

it is a good possibility that the float level may or may not be correct.

it is nothing major because the carby didn't leak before this was stripped down for cleaning, and this is no reflection on you, because you are having a go !!


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## Just Wondering

The magical hours for me are between 7 am and 9 am..

Houston, we have lift off!!!!!

The list of problems:
1. float was sitting to low, bent them up a bit
2. needle valve under the float looked wonky, I reseated it
3. both the plugs were only finger tight (main fuel passage, main jet), I must have forgotten to tighten those

After removing the carb and fondling the guts some more, I was able to stop the streaming leak.

NEW PROBLEM:
Last night after a 95F degree day, the sediment bowl was fine.
This morning with a 78F start, the sediment bowl was leaking around the gasket at the top.

I loosened the retainer, moved the bowl around a bit and then retightened until the leak stopped.

Do I have to do that every day? Should I be emptying the bowl every night after I shut the gas off?

COMEDY OF ERRORS
Bravely and with great determination I began the day taking the carb apart.
Messed with the fiddly bits (float level, main jet, both plugs, both gaskets).

Put the carb back on. 
I hate dealing with the short 6 inch piece of hose connecting the carb to the exhaust (in case you were wondering).

Squirted starter fluid in it and tried starting it.
Silence... then I realize I forgot to reconnect the battery. (which I do whenever I'm messing with gas). Reconnected the battery.

Tried starting.
Went through my mental list and realized I never turned the gas back on. (which I turn off every day after I'm finished messing with the tractor). Turned on the gas and saw the leak from the sediment bowl. Fixed that. Then opened the gas again, sprayed starter fluid in the air in take.

Tried starting it.
Nothing. Again with the mental list -- this time I remembered to move the throttle lever and
shazaam -- it started and smoked and ran uneven, but it was running.
Shot a short video.
Smiled.

Shut it off. Tried starting again. Started and ran uneven.

That is, in my book, a success for the day.


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## Just Wondering

The major responses I've had from the short video I sent 6 friends is:
Too much choke, not enough throttle.

I didn't have the choke on.
No matter how much I move the throttle, it didn't change RPM.

The throttle shaft is connected to the arm with the cotter pin and the whatever-you-call-it smooth bolt with the hole in the end. I can see the linkage move when I move the throttle arm.

It smokes something awful and runs rough and no increase in rpms when I pull down on the throttle lever.


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## dozer966

In the large opening of the carb you will have 2 flaps called butterflys . The first one on the air inlet side is the choke. The second one is your throttle butterfly. Play around with the components to see which one is the throttle linkage. Maybe you are hooked up to the wrong one.


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## FredM

Just Wondering said:


> needle valve under the float looked wonky, I reseated it


The float needle is supposed to be a not to loose fit, this has to be able to move without restriction, I am wondering how you reseated the needle ?.

Is the exhaust smoke black or blue ?, if black the carby is getting to much fuel, did you set the main and idle mixture screws as per specs ?.

If blue, that will be expected because the tractor has been sitting for some time.

the round smooth bolt is called a clevis pin and your tractor has many.

while you are tuning the carby, keep the air cleaner hose attached and clamped (the one that comes from the air filter) in case of backfires, and you will get backfires if the carby is set lean, do you have a fire extinguisher on hand, I am not trying to frighten you, this is a gas tractor and while you are in the tuning stages, prevention is better than the cure.

Have you fitted a genuine gasket on the sediment bowl ?.


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## Just Wondering

VICTORY!
Not just a success, but VICTORY!

And she sounds real purty.

The problem is the nut in the driver's seat ...lol ... ME!

I connected the choke bracket on with the two screws; however, the bracket was backwards. Which means the choke was always on (due to the spring) and pulling the choke would make the choke go off but never enough.

My brother came over and listened to it and said it sounds like you have a miss.. have you choked it? I said no.. choking did not help. He reached over and used his hand to move the choke cable and it made it smooth out. Took his hand off and the spring took over and the miss came back.

SOLUTION:
Take the carb off (again) and remove the choke bracket. Flip it front to back so the spring is going the other way and reinstall the carb. Put the choke lead back in and make double sure you attache the choke line bracket to the choke bracket on the carb.

I'll do pictures to show you what I mean.

It was wonderful to hear it running and it starts and runs each time!


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## Just Wondering

RADIATOR PROBLEM:
Now that the engine is running, the oil is getting a little darker, and the smoke has cleared up; however, there is radiator fluid streaming down the side of the radiator (passenger side). I'm thinking the upper radiator hose needs to be replaced.

Thankfully I had already drained and refilled the radiator, so it was easy to spot the green coolant. 

I now need to research how to get the top covering off so I can replace that hose OR see if the radiator has a leak.

I do have a genuine sediment bowl gasket and I also replaced the sediment bowl screen.

FRONT TIRE PROBLEM
Front right tire won't hold air. Its a 3 row tire. The front left tire is fine, but its a trailer tire. The PO was very creative. I'll probably just put a trailer tire on it for now until I'm sure of the brakes/hydraulics/pto and fix this radiator issue.

SEAT PROBLEM
I've been spraying PB Blaster on the turn handle screw/bolt thats under the seat so I can adjust the seat; however, that is so seized up. Will not move. Any secrets?

JW


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## Just Wondering

Took me over 3 hours this morning to get the bonnet off.

Ignorance on my part.

The 4 machine screws on the front bezel (under the steering wheel) HAVE to be SCREWED off. You cannot remove the nut from the underside like everything else.
You cannot use a socket from the topside because they have round heads with phillips cross in the middle.

You have to PB Blast them and be patient. 
You have to spray them from the top or you 1) get spray all over the backside of your gauges and wiring and 2) you would have to have a really long straw to reach the two upper screws because it would backsplash all over the electrical for the gauges.

You HAVE TO BACK OFF THE SCREWS FROM THE TOP because the nut they are screwed into is welded to the backside of the sheet metal. 

I will admit this is one time I regret not doing push-ups and pull-ups. 
It is a long bonnet (hood, lid cover), it is one piece, its unwieldy, and its moderately heavy.

So I did the ooch & scoot method walking back and forth to each side of the tractor til I worried it halfway off toward the front. Tedious, but it worked.

RADIATOR LEAK ISSUE
Appears to be the cap needs to be replaced. No gasket on it and rusted underneath like nobody's business. The overflow tube is missing and the hole was full of bug remains and dirt.

FLAT TIRE
PB Blasted all the lugs and broke them loose.
Husband refused to put it on a jack till I was finished getting the bonnet off.
He is a smart guy and thankfully loves me enough to keep me safe. 
The rim is missing one lug.

Looks like a run to the co-op or to town later this afternoon or tomorrow.
JW


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## dozer966

Your radiator cap is a pressure relief valve . If you fill the radiator to the top the expanded coolant will come out the overflow. The cap also keeps ( don't quote me on this one, I'm sure someone will correct me) about 5 psi in the radiator to give the coolant a higher boiling point. Once the extra coolant has dribbled out and engine has cooled again the level should be about an inch or two below full. Today's vehicle has an overflow tank and takes or puts in as required.
Changing your cap is probably a good thing but won't solve the leaking you see till it finds its sweet spot.


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## Just Wondering

I probably just overfilled it.
I'm planning on adding an overflow tube as well so it doesn't drain all over my lovely new belt.

Looking at the wiring at the dash, its obvious I need to replace some wires. Quite a few have rat chew marks on them or have lost their outer coating.

I'll get the radiator cap, missing stud, and flat fixed tomorrow. Got too hot for me today.

I really need to fill the IH 1086 and shred one of the fields this week -- carrot weed is blooming profusely. I hate that weed.
JW


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## Just Wondering

New radiator cap is on.
New gas cap is on.
New lugnut/stud (whatever) is ordered.
Upper radiator hose is here.
Bought new radiator coolant.
Have to bring two pails of hydraulic fluid

Row crop tire is gone.
New tire is on the ground, waiting for the lugnut.
Waiting on lower radiator hose.

Tomorrow I'll go back to town and get the hose & lugnut.
Just a few wires to replace on the gauges.

All this should be working by the end of the week. (fingers crossed).
Then I can trailer it down to the estate.


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## Busted Tractor

Massey Ferguson and all agco product manuals are available from www.agcopubs.com. These include operators, service and parts manuals. Just for info the expensive service manual is the same as the cheaper one it just comes in a binder. The are usually cheaper that other sourced manuals
I see your tractor has a hydraulic valve mounted on the top cover, just below the seat. You would also benefit from the auxiliary hydraulics manual. This valve also makes getting on and off the tractor a real act of balance.


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## Just Wondering

I thought it was just me and not being limber enough, but I swear I must look like quite a sight when I get on that tractor.

Thanks for the heads up on the manuals.

JW


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## Just Wondering

Friend of mine uploaded the video of the Massey Ferguson 165 startup after 5 years of not running and after several months of my efforts:






His link... I'm not video literate currently. 

JW


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## Just Wondering

Finally got back to the Massey today.
I bought new radiator hoses and opened the pitcock to drain the coolant.
Now a month ago when I drained the radiator fluid, it streamed out of the pitcock just like normal.
Today, the fluid barely dripped out and it was brown, not brilliant green.
Bummer.

I removed the air filter housing and found that the pliable rubber 'trap' that is supposed to catch the large bits and pieces has never been cleaned. It had compost in it. Cleaned that out.

Removed the top hose and got green coolant.

Lost daylight before I got to the bottom hose off although I did get all the bolts off.

Game plan now:
Remove the bottom hose and then remove the radiator.
After I get it out, see if I can determine if the level of rust and filth in it can be cleaned or if I'm going to have to get another radiator. That cleanout pitcock needs to work.

I don't know if it is residue in the radiator blocking it or if because I ran the engine a few minutes that some sludge from somewhere else caused the problem.

We shall see.

JW


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## Hoodoo Valley

I'd pop that radiator out and take it to a radiator shop and have them "Rod it" which means they remove the top and bottom tanks, and send a rod down each section to force out all the gunk. I'd also flush out the motor while the radiator is out. Nicely done on the start up. Sounded really nice. You should be very proud of your efforts!


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## Just Wondering

I'm baffled.
How do I get the radiator off?

I've removed all the hoses (upper and lower) and drained what I can from the radiator.

I've removed all the bolts from the housing including the brackets on the sides that hold the sheet metal nose on.

I can move the inner cowl? fan housing back toward the engine, but the power steering lines block it. So I can't get the lower radiator hose stub? unblocked from that cowling.

I then went to the power steering cylinder in front of the radiator and realized its been leaking and is totally icky with built up dirt and oil/grease. Ewww

I cleaned it as best I could for an hour trying to remove as much build up as I could so I could find whatever was holding the lines in. Got the lines released.
BUT
it now seems I need to release the lines from the power steering pump.

*It certainly feels like I'm taking half of the tractor apart just to get the radiator out.

Is there something I'm missing? *

Plan now:
1. Order a rebuild kit for the power steering cylinder
2. Order a rebuild kit for the power steering pump
3. Disconnect the power steering lines from the power steering pump and thread them out so I can have a little more working room to get the radiator out.

But I think its time for breakfast and I need to feed the dogs.

JW


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## Hoodoo Valley

Bekasu? Have you considered buying a new tractor yet?


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## Just Wondering

No new tractor ...
I'm saving up for a car if an when I can make up my mind:
59 2 door dodge custom/royal/lancer OR
77 chrysler cordoba with 400 and hurst shifter in the floor OR
72 buick skylark

I watched a dozen videos cause I had decent internet this morning and the secret to removing the radiator is .........
rotate the fan blades until you find the spacing where the blades are farther apart, THEN move the cowling back TOWARDS the engine but ABOVE the power steering lines.

Got it out an removed the pitcock. The holes in the backside of the pitcock were completely filled with black gunk. I did use a swab to check the bottom interior of the radiator and there is a little grime but nothing alarming.

I think I was just lucky to get this wonderful buildup after I put new coolant in the radiator a few weeks ago.

GAME PLAN NOW:
1. return the radiator hoses I bought from O'Reillys . none of them are long enough to work properly. Their cross-reference book for tractors leaves a lot to be desired.
2. order new radiator hoses
3. order kit for the power steering cylinder 
4. order new thermostat (might as well replace that if I'm doing everything else in the coolant world) and I'm sure I'll need a gasket or something. 
5. order kit and filter for power steering pump

NEXT QUESTION:
Q1. How do you tell if you need new power steering lines? 
The rubber hose part of the lines certainly has surface cracks on it.

Q2. Is there a way to determine what kit I need for the power steering cylinder without removing the cylinder first? 
I've tried cleaning it to find the number on the housing but I'm blind or don't know where to look or something.

JW
(and other than cleaning out the radiator which looks to be in good shape, I'm done til later-- nearly 10 am and its too dang hot to stand under my tent and sweat dripping down my nose.)


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## RC Wells

Radiator removal is done by removing the hood and front tinwork, then unbolting the front support, and finally pulling the radiator out from the front after everything is cleared and disconnected. These old radiators are copper and brass soldered together with lead solder, and heavy. If the tractor has not been overheating, and you do not intend to do production farming with it, my recommendation is to remove the lower hose, remove the petcock drain, and wash the lower tank of the radiator through the lower hose bib with a garden hose until it runs clear out of the bib and drain. Messy, but cheap and effective at removing old scale.

Once that is done get some radiator flush from NAPA or equivalent store, replace the hoses and follow the directions on the container. 

Power steering lines will weep oil if they are leaking. Age cracking and rubber deterioration will not be a problem on most hobby tractors. Production equipment would have such lines replaced because down time is expensive. Just check the lines for leaks, if they leak then replace the leakers. 

Power steering cylinder. The power steering cylinder will need to be removed to be resealed anyway. If I were you, and because cylinder rebuilding requires good eyesight and picking around with sharp seal picks, I would just remove the cylinder and take it to a local hydraulic repair shop. The only glitch you may face with rebuilding the existing cylinder is rust on the ram, if that is present what is known as a centerless grinder is required to remove the old plating and rust, and then re-chroming will be required, and that gets expensive. Unfortunately, that is also the part that usually rusts and knocks out the seal. A good hydraulic shop will be able to take a look and give you a reasonably accurate estimate of cost, so you can choose the most cost effective option. A replacement ram (shaft and piston without seals is around $180 from Amazon or yesterdaystractors.com) the seal kit is around $41 from crosscreektractor.com, and a set of picks is maybe $15 at NAPA. Borrow a youngster with good eyes!

I am unaware of completed and good replacement cylinder assemblies for sale today. If the cylinder housing has a few internal pits or light scoring it is not a big deal, and reuse is the most common avenue.

I have been following your progress from the first post, and am amazed. Good for you!


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## Just Wondering

Windows 10 has taken what seems like 4 ever to update. bleh

Aluminum cans are bringing 65 cents a pound... added $3.25 to my car fund today .. big time!

I ordered the parts I think I need for the Massey.

This morning in the cool A.M., I used several implements and some engine degreaser to try and remove some of the built up filth around the power steering cylinder. I'll wipe it down this evening.

Not much happening until the end of the week when parts arrive.

Looks like I'll be down at the estate removing the non-functioning A/C from the IH 1086. Mowing in the heat with no a/c in a cab tractor is no fun.

JW


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## Just Wondering

Totally exciting... got not 1 but 2 packages in the mail today.

The o-rings for the power steering cylinder pump have arrived and the two new radiator hoses arrived as well.

I have to make a diesel run tomorrow to get the IH 1086 ready for mowing on Sunday.

Ordered a drier for the A/C on the 1086 today and should be here tomorrow as well as the pigtail for the 87 Chrysler Fifth Avenue Voltage Regulator (another casualty in the great PackRat War of 2018).

My brother now introduces me as his sister, the grease monkey. Makes me laugh.

Based on my learnings on the MF 165 Carb rebuild, I (with great confidence and high expectations) adjusted the carb on the golf cart and husband has been using it. He is mighty appreciative, but still calls me honey instead of 'grease monkey). LOL

A successful day and hopefully a victorious MF upgrade tomorrow.

JW


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## Just Wondering

Bought another 54 gallons of diesel today so I can keep shredding fields this next week. Too dang hot today.

I am at a loss how to get this cylinder out.
Been surfing the web and reading my manuals.

I think my brain is mush today. Sigh.
Made dinner and with it done, I'm going outside to puzzle this out. 
So glad I bought the parts manual -- has pretty good diagrams.

JW


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## Just Wondering

Limited success
How do you remove the pin cylinder anchor from the ram side , passenger, left side of he cylinder?

I did remove the swivel and link assembly
Also removed the snap ring from upper steering arm
And got the nut ans screw off the main steering arm assembly

I assume I need an impact tool to get thenut off the drag link since my girl muscles and hand strength couldn't budge it

But the pin on the left side has me baffled. 

Jw


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## Just Wondering

Having a parts manual is so helpful. Diagrams and descriptions.

It's like learning a foreign language...they have a word for everything.

I feel like I should go back to everyone who has helped me with mechanical things up to this point in my life and apologize for referring to items as that thingy that holds the rubber whats it to the bottom of the metal bowl that covers the deal that broke. Lol

Jw


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## RC Wells

Typical view above.










Here is a clean view with the radiator removed, they never look like this when you start the process. 

Unbolt the ram from the casting on the right. Some use a saddle that must be removed, others use a bolt that holds the piston rod in the casting to the roght.

Remove the actuator control rod on top left. IF YOU UNTHREAD THE ADJUSTMENT BOLT IN THE ACTUATOR ROD, COUNT YOUR TURNS AND REINSTALL COUNTING THE SAME NUMBER OF TURNS. This is what controls the speed and pressure as you turn the steering wheel.

The base of the cylinder clamps to the shaft at the rear, Two bolts, and use lots of penetrating oil. 

Tag the hydraulic lines for top and bottom, then remove.

Lift cylinder up after the ram is disconnected and retracted. May require use of a chisel to slightly spread the bolt on clamps at the back. Eat lots of Cherrios, and have a helper with a pry bar or use a port-a-power with spreader jaws to lift the cylinder clamps up and off the shaft that sticks up vertically.

Take your time, maybe learn a few new words, and it will come up and off. Use plenty of penetrating oil. 50% automatic transmission fluid and 50% acetone makes the best penetrating oil. Let the oil do the heavy work, so it may take several days of oiling and some light taps to allow the oil to loosen the rust.

90% of the time the cylinder will come up and off the shaft to which it is clamped. 10% of the time you will need to remove the steering arm to which it attaches. That has a circlip on the top, and a bolt at the bottom, then the entire cylinder and steering arm lift out as one. When you pull the whole assembly, you will need a picklefork and a way to tap the end of the casting into which it bolts, and lots of penetrating oil to remove the tie rod that comes from the steering gear to that front assembly. NEVER HAMMER ON THE TIE ROD END MOUNTING BOLT OR THREADS, THE THREADED PORTION IS MALLEABLE AND WILL BE DESTROYED.

One caution, if the chromed ram (shaft that pushes and pulls in and out of the cylinder) is gouged or rusty, stop and order a new piston and shaft assembly or you will be leaking almost immediately, as the rough shaft eats out the new seals as soon as it slides. No point in repeating all the hard work in just a few hours of use.


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## thepumpguysc

Wow RC.. thats is a fantastic write up.. I for one, am glad your here..
I don't even own a tractor & learned ALOT.. lol


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## RC Wells

Removal of the ram pin from the casting can be either of three ways, depending on the version you have.

For the version with the threaded end of the vertical pin sticking out of the casting (most common), you will find a small hole down on the casting, just above the large hole for the ram. There is a pin in that hole that secures the ram pin in the boss. Drive or drill out that small pin, then get a stack of washers and a nut that fits the threaded end of the vertical pin. Crack the hydraulic lines loose so they release any pressure on the ram. Stick the washers over the vertical pin, then screw the nut down so it pulls the pin out. May need several applications of penetrating oil to break any rust on the pin loose. If it sticks, a pickle fork between the nut and the large flat washers may be needed to wedge the vertical pin out of its hole.

The version with a bolt on saddle requires the saddle to be removed, the small pin (if it has that small hole above the ram hole) driven out, and then pry the saddle up and out after the hydraulic pressure is released. The vertical pin will be attached to the saddle.

The version with a bolt head requires the small keeper pin to be removed, then unscrew the bolt once the hydraulic pressure is released. 

Then you have the "farmer repaired" specials. Usually a large bolt dropped into the vertical pin hole, and secured with red Loctite or the equivalent to keep it from bouncing out. Sometimes the smaller cross pin has been drilled and something stuck in the hole to secure the bolt instead of the red Loctite. Remove the small pin/bolt and work the large bolt out. If Loctite has been used a heat gun will be required to heat the casting and pin to about 375 degrees F. Once the sealant starts bubbling out work out the vertical bolt/pin.

Here is a pict of the small keeper pin boss above the ram boss:


----------



## Just Wondering

Mine does not appear to have any keeper holes.

In fact, I used the stack of washers til I ran out of washers.
Then I started stacking box wrenches with a washer on top.

Each time I ran the nut down and it slowly pulled the bolt up (left side pin).
Until, yes it came free.

The reason there was so much goo and build up was
drum roll....

broken pin.

The top part of the bolt came loose after enough encouragement, but you can tell from looking at the bottom that it is rusted across the bottom.
Its rusted on the remaining part in the hole.

Apparently, the PO could not get the pin out or it busted on the PO and thus, the power steering cylinder was never repacked.

I'll resize the photos and upload in a separate post.

NEW QUESTION:
How do I get the portion of the rusted bolt out so I can get the ram retracted into the power steering cylinder?

I don't want to compromise the ram on the power steering cylinder.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

Using the stack of washers and the nut on the top to back the pin out.









Ran out of washers so started adding box wrenches with a large washer on top.









Got the pin out BUT it was broken in half and rusted on sides and bottom.









This is down in the hole looking into the area the pin was and you can see the rust down at the bottom. You are looking at the rest of the pin.

Apparently, this is the reason the cylinder has been leaking for years.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

No little hole anywhere for a keeper pin.


----------



## RC Wells

This is the point you may want to call a professional and pay for their services. Here is why:

The next step is to use a center punch, put a dimple in the center of the broken pin, then drill out the remaining pin. You will need three progressively sized cobalt drill bits and a supply of motor oil. 

I normally start with a quarter inch bit and drill slowly in a puddle of oil. Go slow and flush out the steel chips with fresh oil as you go to prevent breaking the bit. Once you have a pilot hole move up to a 3/8 inch bit and repeat the process, again do not skimp on the oil as it cools the bit and washes out the chips. Once that hole is through, the largest bit will be slightly smaller than the original vertical pin. Repeat the drilling process. 

As the largest bit is used, the pin will fracture and come loose from the cast frame.

Use eye protection and a GFI power outlet.

This will require an industrial strength drill of at least 1/2 inch chuck, a corded type, and variable speed. Your drill speed will be around 300 RPMs. If you do not have one, rent or borrow one. The drill will be so powerful that if it catches you will immediately let go or risk a broken arm. I use a drill similar to this one, only decades older and a Milwaukie that is no longer available: https://www.amazon.com/Makita-DS400...2+inch+electric+drill&refinements=p_89:Makita

The cobalt steel bits will be expensive, the largest running around $30 to $50. Do not fool with titanium coated bits, they are light duty homeowner junk, and will break in the middle of the process and really create a problem. If the bit starts to get dull, get it sharpened. YOU DO NOT WANT A BIT TO BREAK IN THE HOLE, GO SLOW WITH LOTS OF OIL.


----------



## Just Wondering

I have my punch.
I have 4 staggered sizes of cobalt drill bits.

Spent 5 hours shredding half of the hay meadow this morning (30 acres or so).
Taking a break and I'll look at this in a few hours.

I also have not been able to get ball stud off the drag link.
It will not release off the drag link.
Dang it.
I'm going to get the small sledge.

After my nap this afternoon...lol
JW


----------



## RC Wells

If you whack the tie rod end holder of the drag link, be sure you have the nut off and a heavy sledge on the opposite side of the casting so you do not crack or deform the casting from an oblique blow. Do not whack on the threaded stud of the tie rod, that will make it expand and micro weld into the cast holder. The absolute best solution is to use a picklefork made for the purpose of pulling tie rod ends.


----------



## Just Wondering

I tried the pickle fork but couldn't get it between the dust cover and the ball stud.
I'm sure I was doing something wrong.

I did go with a small sledge and tapped it several times in different places.
no good.
My brother did the same.
no good.
We both were worried we would crack the armature.

Took a break and tried it again and I whacked it harder all the way around (12 taps, 4 to 5 different positions around the casting. I couldn't get a hammer in there to put on the backside.
However, we did have SUCCESS!
On the 12th blow it just popped off.


----------



## Just Wondering

I had to spend 5 hours this morning shredding half of the hay meadow. Ugh. I hate carrot weed.

Went to town and bought 4 cobalt drill bits. The little hardware store always has fresh popcorn on the weekend so there was that small excitement. 

Came home and worked on the Chrysler, still trying to repair ratpack electrical damage.

This evening after the success with the ball stud and the armature, I began work on the broken cylinder pin.

Used a center punch and set my center (or so I thought). 

Oil in the hole. Used the smallest of the 4 drill bits and began.
Seemed like nothing was working and it was hot in the late day sun.
Oh bless my soul... if you put the drill in forward instead of reverse it drills much, much better.

Got a few shavings. More oil. More shavings. More oil.
Moved up 1 size. More oil. More shavings. Cleaning out the shavings was difficult.
Moved up 1 size. More oil. More shavings. More oil. More shavings. and a suddent lurch.

Shazam! The end of the ram moved.
Used the end of the jack lever and tapped the ram back into the body.

SUCCESS! Ram is clear of the housing.
Removed the power steering cylinder.

That thing still has the armature on it and is heavy!

Bad news is my drill hole was off center. Apparently the uneven top of the broken pin didn't lend itself to a 'center'. However, that dilemma will be addressed by a bolt extractor tomorrow. 

I did manage this with the makita cordless drill.
It makes me suspect that there was just a little bit of the sticking up preventing me from pushing the ram out of the casting. I'm thinking the drill skipped across the top of the bolt until it found enough material to stop it and grab. Which means I didn't have to drill much to get the offending pin material.

Also means the drill 'hole' (its small and shallow) is off center.

But now I can clean the cylinder and put in new orings and gaskets. 

I'll resize the photos and post them manana. Gotta get my regular chores done.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

Shout out to http://www.agcopartsbooks.com/ online!
Found the info I needed to order the anchor pin, a new nut for it, and the hex head pin on the other side (which has two mighty-fine cracks all the way through it).

Parts should be here in 3 days or so at the local (50 mile round trip) equipment dealer.

Gives me time to clean up and repack the cylinder.
JW


----------



## Just Wondering

You guys missed so much this past week....


----------



## Just Wondering

Oh my gosh dang it -- Its working BWA HAHAHAHAHAH


----------



## Hoodoo Valley

Okay Becky, lots of photos and updating. I was going to roll over some of your progress from the emails you sent me, but figured I'd wait so you could tell it! Welcome back!


----------



## Just Wondering

I have an amazing amount of pictures tearing down the power steering cylinder which, obviously, have not been posted. lol

I began my catastrophic failure about the 4 hours after the site died.
Everything was going fine although it was taking hours to get thing apart. (more on that later).

Right up until I tried to remove the valve from the top casting mount (the part just above the power steering cylinder). I searched the world (internet world) over and only found 1 reference to getting the valve out of a cylinder assembly like mine.

Didn't work.

I wussed out and took it to the folks over at a different cylinder place along with the dead 1086 loader cylinder (busted that ram clean in two). 

Two guys and I stood there reviewing the parts diagrams and parts listing. I think we were each waiting for one of us to say something. Was too funny. Finally Auge says (oldest guy) as he is stroking his chin 'Well ma'am, I reckon we can try. Never done one of these before. But I'm sure we can figure something out. Sometimes you just have to be more determined than other times'.

I think that was his way of delicately telling me I didn't put enough muscle into the effort. But I was worried I was going to break the housing.

Scored 80 cardboard boxes that are 74 x 120 x 18. Unloaded some for use as weed block in the garden and the rest I have to get into storage before we 'might' get rain on Monday.

Photos after I get the cardboard unloaded and stored (only gonna be 97 tomorrow) and handling oversized sheets of cardboard in hot weather is sooooo much fun..

JW


----------



## Hoodoo Valley

Only 97....? It was almost 70 degrees here today and seriously, I was dying. I really like the cooler weather myself.


----------



## Just Wondering

Today I spent moving the remainder of the cardboard down to the estate and then the next 6 hours removing everything you have to remove to get the water pump out of the 1987 Chrysler Fifth Avenue.

Let me get all my photos resized and a shower and I'll log back on to post everything and get you caught up in the continuing drama of the MF 165.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

You see cardboard I scored for zero dollars.
I see many future non-dirt opportunities to work on my vehicles until I can afford a garage.

Was 97 while I spent 3 hours cleaning about half of a storage container and loading more than half of the cardboard into the container.

Glad its done , but my muscles are going to remind me of this tomorrow.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

Looks even worse now that I have half of it apart.









Arrow on the left, I successfully removed two lines.
Arrow on the right, I successfully removed the nut. It is hiding a recess for an allenhead wrench.








Which has conveniently (not) got two cracks in it that are not supposed to be there.









Then I just couldn't stand it anymore and had to start cleaning more of the grime and goo.


----------



## Just Wondering

Flowers my husband grew and picked for me one morning. 
He's a sweetheart.









Such a simple photo.
But I spent two days getting my nerve together to hit that housing the ball stud was in hard enough to get it to pop out.

Tried the pickle fork.
Tried a small sledge.
Tried a ball peen hammer.
Tried a regular hammer.
Tried prying it with several tools not meant to be used that way and certainly didn't do it in front of the Mister. (lol).

Finally, I took your advice and wacked it 3 times each in 4 spots and on the 12 blow, it popped out. I have no idea how to get it back in, but as least I got the back end of it out.

Then I had to use cobalt drill bits of progressively larger sizes until I got enough material out of the hole with the pin that holds the ram in place before that end came out.

Ugh.. easily 3 days of progressive effort so I could be sure I didn't break anything.


----------



## Just Wondering

Left arrow - got the first part of the cylinder apart.
Right arrow - wallered just a little bit of the ram, but I think it is still fine.
Middle - I can not for the life of me get this valve out.









These four bolts were holding the cylinder together.
I cleaned them and put some lithium grease on them to make sure they don't seize up in the future.









Got the piston out.









Bits and pieces of gaskets.. All those black crumbles came out of the inside neck where the piston ram runs. You had to dig it out with a pick and it was already crumbly in there.









Crumbly inside.


----------



## Just Wondering

Gently, carefully, pry this little hat (cap?) off the end. 
They say it is held on with screws. But they look more like brads to me.









Its just pushed in no screwing.









After searching everywhere, it seemed the only solution was to push the end of the valve toward the back, put a pair of vice grips on them, and hold it while you twist the front.

Don't use a puny screwdriver. It will bend.


----------



## Just Wondering

Meanwhile, go out and pull the water neck? spout? thingy? off to get to the thermostat.









Its like the gasket just disappeared. A wonder it wasn't spewing everywhere.









At this point, you realize the thermostat you got from Steiners looks nothing like this.
Steiner's looks like a car thermostat with the rounded metal and the jiggle valve sticking up.

This sits recessed in the neck and is flat on top.

I'm going to boil it and see if it shuts, if so, it gets put back in.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

After messing with the cylinder for about 3 days, I finally gave up and admitted I was out of my element.

That's when I took it to the cylinder guys.

The newer/replacement power steering cylinders have a big bolt at the end and one through the side of the casing that holds the valve.

Mine was an older type.
The two smaller holes at the top of it had rounded ball bearings in them.
If it had been just a few years later, there would have been allenhead receiver/screws in those small holes.

Ah well, either they can fix it or I have to replace it.
Which ever way it turns out, this tractor is going to the estate and it will not be my main problem anymore once the steering is fixed.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

Burleson is about 150 miles from me. I'm closer to Paris and the red river.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

Only other point, I forgot to take a picture of was the broken ring on the piston.
There are two metal rings and one of them was cracked into two pieces.

So the leaks were coming from the bottom and the top of the power steering assembly.

No wonder there was 1/2 inch of gunk on this thing.

My brother gave me grief about scope creep. You had it running and then took it apart more. What were you thinking.

I was thinking: If I'm on this tractor or anyone else is on this tractor it better do three things well:
1. Brake/stop
2. Start/go
3. Steer 

I still need to look at the brakes but so far they grab well. Course I've only driving 3 feet. lol

JW


----------



## FredM

thermostats are supposed to be shut when cold and open as the fluid heats up ??.


----------



## Just Wondering

Open/shut or shut/open ..... as long as it changes in the boiling water. lol

I don't think the replacement thermostat would work anyway, there is nothing to hold it in place.
It sits horizontally, and its top heavy so would have a tendacy to pull away from the opening.
But then, I'm probably overthinking this.

JW


----------



## dozer966

You can take the old one to an auto parts store so they can match it with a new one.


----------



## Just Wondering

Drum roll !!!!
Today I was taking my husband to the doctor (bad sinus infection) and got a call

good news:
power steering cylinder is repacked and finished for about 1/2 the price of normal

bad news:
the 1 non-broken cylinder from the IH 1086 has a bent rod so both the cylinders will be a bit more expensive. I'm having them both rebuilt, new rods, and repacked so I'm starting with the same stress on both sides of the loader.

Will take another week or so for that, so it gives me time to change the hydraulic fluid and filters again. 

Meanwhile, once that sun goes down a bit I'll go change and see if I can get the remainder of the pin out of the receiver hole so I can put this guy back together.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

I never got back out to work on the Massey.
The water pump in the Chrysler failed and I just had to go down and work on it. Poor thing.
Got the fan shroud, fan, fan spacer, fan clutch & water pump out.

Good news is: I got everything back in with the new parts there.
Perplexing news is: I have 2 bracket left over and lost one of the retaining nuts.

Sigh... 
I think I must just put stuff in my pockets with no thought to what I'm doing. 
Then at night I remove all the stuff.
Then I have empty pockets the next morning.
So sad... (lol)

On a brighter note, the two brackets I had left over don't have to go back on.
They are the originals for this 1987 beauty.. original brackets for the 'magnetic' timing device.
Since nowadays timing is done with a light, the brackets are no longer needed since no one has a magnetic timing device.

--
Early in the morning while it is cool, I'll try to get the remainder of that pin out of the tractor body.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

Having quite a battle getting the remainder of the pin out of the receiver hole.
Today, I'm going to start using transmission fluid on it to see if the rust will give way enough for me to get it out. I don't think PB Blaster was touching it.

Tried drilling with regular bit and cobalt bit of various sizes.
Tried left twist bits.
Tried left twist extractor.
Tried heating with a butane torch, but I don't think it got hot enough.

I have worried a hole 1/4 wide and about 1/2 inch deep.
I have broadened the top of the hole about 1/2 inch wide.

Stubborn little toaster-head won't budge.

My 3 advisors have said to either: heat the outside with quick heat from a torch to get the metal to expand so it will come out
or
like this forum, use a non-cordless drill
or
take it to a professional.

All the trailers are tied up and loaded right now (how that happens is just amazing). So I started unloading one trailer this week and have all the 60 cinder blocks off it. I hate getting stuck with the un-fun part of a project, especially when it is a hot and humid day.

Thursday, I'll unload the phone poles off the other trailer cause today is get the rims and tires mounted kind of day so I can go see if the fuel trailer I bought is going to come to the estate easy or if its going to be a chore.

Husband health has been dicey the past two weeks, so my progress is glacial right now. 
Stay tuned for a little progress by the end of the week.

JW


----------



## RC Wells

Mix the ATF 50% with Acetone, and apply it multiple times over a few days. Tap the casting, not the pin, sharply to allow the solution to work in. Repeat tapping with application of the penetrating solution. Do not rush, let the oil solution do it's thing, may take a week of applying and tapping.


----------



## Just Wondering

started it tonight before it got dark..
JW


----------



## Just Wondering

alrighty, after much delay I have the long-shank, burring bits to try and grind out the broken pin.

I'm just not confident enough to try using heat. 
My fear is I'll crack the cast iron and then be in the market for the front half of a tractor .

Will let you know the results.

JW








(those are just some examples of what I'm talking about, not that I got them all).


----------



## Just Wondering

Started with the ball and moved to the cylindrical with the radius end. That combo is working well. I have about 1 inch of material removed... its just not as wide as the hole.

I'm going to order the larger cylindrical without the radius end and see if that works better for my needs.

Just been hot and oh so humid.
The work crew that is putting in the new lake (almost 2 miles south of us) has been moving dirt, downing trees, burning trees/brush for weeks now. Combined with the unseasonably warm weather and excessively high humidity I have been stopped on getting out there to work on the Massey most days this past month.

Hoping things will dry up for a week or so and the burning stops.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

I'm still working with the deburring bit to get the pin material out of the hole.

Just been so dang hot. I have to bend my neck to look down to be sure of what I'm doing and the sweat just starts running down my face and on to my glasses.

I sure miss those younger days when I didn't need to wear glasses. lol
JW


----------



## Just Wondering

Finally, this morning I ground enough material out of the pin 'hole' so the depth is correct now.

Began the process of grinding more from the sides so it would be wide enough to accommodate the pin. The bur grinder is only 1/4 inch wide and the hole needs to be 1/2 inch wide.

Was able to grind enough material from the top to get the pin to drop another 1/4 inch down.
That means I have about 1 inch in height left to grind the edges of and that pin will be sitting pretty.

And yes, the front left tire is flat.
Hasn't moved an inch in over a month and the dang thing is flat. 

JW


----------



## Guest

Gotta admire your grit and perseverance!


----------



## Just Wondering

Welllllllll....
I took a break.
The heat this past two month was brutal so I decided to finish up my crochet entry for the state fair.
Two days before it was due, I checked online to make sure I had the location correct that I needed to drive this beauty to 
and
of course,
I misread, mis-remembered ... whatever 
I was 1 week late for the entry deadline.

What a bummer.
Beautiful afghan though.
I'll take a picture after I finish cleaning out the big box of electronics in the corner of the bedroom. For some reason I've been overtaken by the 'clean it up' bug.

I did get out there the past few days an worry more material out of the hole. I believe it is sufficient for my needs. Auditioned the pin and the nut this morning and was soooo disappointed.

I very specifically asked the counter help to make sure to get new nuts for this new pin and they assured me over and over that there was no need for that... its oem ... it will fit.

Doesn't fit.

Trip down to the hardware store and the owner (90+ years old) takes one look at it and shakes his head. Says 'well that will never work'. Walks over to the masses of bins and picks out a nut that fits it exactly. He is a most amazing man.

We are in for another 4 days of 100 degrees then it should be cooling off. I should have this back together and on to the last fiddly bits to get it back in running shape.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

Either this is funny and I should be laughing
or 
this is frustrating and I should be screaming.

Finished up getting the hole deep and wide enough for the anchor pin on the power steering. That was on Friday. Had other projects to finish on Saturday and Sunday, so today on Labor day I chose to labor on the Massey.

The drill was still there.
The drill bits with the special tips were still there, the oil, the rags, all the rusted bits and pieces.
The rag was in the end of the block where the thermostat goes to keep dirt and critters out.
Tent still above, cat litter bottle still on the stack (hoping to encourage the rain gods to rain).

What isn't there?
1 washer
2 nuts
1 anchor pin 

I have looked everywhere, just in case there was a massive earthquake I slept through and it flew off the tractor.
However, I believe the shorter days and strange weather we are having has encouraged the packrats to start nesting. And I am beginning to suspect my precious pin was just too much bling to resist.

Two days in a row, the cats have left me a dead packrat on the veranda, so I'm thinking my luck ran out. All freaking summer, nothing bothered my work under the tent. But the first cool-enough day and I'm now missing the critical part.

I would cry if it wasn't so funny.

Tuesday I order another pin from the MF dealer.
JW


----------



## Hoodoo Valley

Just Wondering said:


> Either this is funny and I should be laughing
> or
> this is frustrating and I should be screaming.
> 
> Finished up getting the hole deep and wide enough for the anchor pin on the power steering. That was on Friday. Had other projects to finish on Saturday and Sunday, so today on Labor day I chose to labor on the Massey.
> 
> The drill was still there.
> The drill bits with the special tips were still there, the oil, the rags, all the rusted bits and pieces.
> The rag was in the end of the block where the thermostat goes to keep dirt and critters out.
> Tent still above, cat litter bottle still on the stack (hoping to encourage the rain gods to rain).
> 
> What isn't there?
> 1 washer
> 2 nuts
> 1 anchor pin
> 
> I have looked everywhere, just in case there was a massive earthquake I slept through and it flew off the tractor.
> However, I believe the shorter days and strange weather we are having has encouraged the packrats to start nesting. And I am beginning to suspect my precious pin was just too much bling to resist.
> 
> .
> Two days in a row, the cats have left me a dead packrat on the veranda, so I'm thinking my luck ran out. All freaking summer, nothing bothered my work under the tent. But the first cool-enough day and I'm now missing the critical part.
> 
> I would cry if it wasn't so funny.
> 
> Tuesday I order another pin from the MF dealer.
> JW


If only I had a dollar for every time that's happened to me! I'd be rich.


----------



## Guest

I ended up waiting parts while I was rebuilding my 3 point and at one point I had shiny pins, washers, cotter keys all laid out on my counter weight. About to walk away until the next day, I visualized what just happened to you and went back and took all the shiny bits into my workshop. I feel for you.


----------



## Just Wondering

Got the part ordered and the rain gods are giving us rain chances between 40 and 70 percent for the next 4 days.

I'm still planning to get that power steering back together. Have the rebuild kit for the pump, so I'll do that while it is raining.

Here is a novice question:
Do I use the regular hydraulic fluid in the power steering pump and the power steering cylinder OR
do I get ATF to put in it an just use the hydraulic fluid in the gear system back under the seat.
(sorry -- my brain freeze has caused me to forget the gear system, transmission thingy... although it is a rather large thingy..lol).

JW


----------



## Guest

I checked around a few sites and it seems the same fluid as you use in the transmission or Type A automatic transmission fluid. Definitely Not Dexron.


----------



## Just Wondering

thx ... I'm thinking I'll go with hydraulic fluid and not add another fluid to the mix.
I bought a parts manual but didn't buy an owner's manual. 
Silly me.

thank you again.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

There is now a paper sack on the dash of my cheby truk with an anchor pin and two new nuts. Tomorrow morning sometime if you thing you hear someone hootin and hollaring, it will be me doing the happy dance in front of the tractor (unless we really do get rain).

Yee haw!


----------



## Guest

windows up on the truck?


----------



## Just Wondering

absolutely... windows up and doors shut. lol


----------



## Hoodoo Valley

To keep the pin and nuts from drifting away right?


----------



## RC Wells

Just send me your rain! I am so tired of hot and dusty that I am ready for monsoon weather!


----------



## FredM

watch those pack rats!!


----------



## Just Wondering

3:41pm and I have all the chores done except feeding dogs. 
Sigh ... where did the week go. I really thought today was going to be Friday.... too funny.
Massive rain kept dying off about 3 miles south of us so we've had heat and humidity with occasional raindrops off and on all day.
Ugh.
I'm walking out to futz with the tractor and weather app says rain starting in 8 minutes and will last 2 hours.

I think I'll go work on making the gasket for the water pump spout. 
The saga continues.

JW


----------



## Just Wondering

7:34 pm on Sunday evening ... 
The power steering cylinder is reseated in the tractor.
I also got the thermostat reinstalled & all the surfaces cleaned up so the new gasket would seat well when I put the water hose housing back on.
Picked up the cleaner for bullet casings out of the loader room down at the estate and used it to clean up all the rusty nuts, bolts, and washers. It worked really well.

Coated everything in lithium grease as I'm putting it back together.

Tomorrow afternoon my plan is to somehow force that arm back down that took me forever to bang off and get all the photos up for you all to see. May even get the radiator reinstalled. Depends on the weather.

JW


----------



## Hoodoo Valley

Need to update us with photos!


----------



## Guest

wow nice idea to use the tumbler to clean up the shiny bits!


----------



## Just Wondering

13 inches of rain.
I have pictures of 13 inches of rain.

I did, today, finally get the correct filter for the power steering pump.
Yea!

I'll unload the phone... I know I owe you pictures and the summer is all gone. Argh
JW


----------



## Just Wondering

Another 11 inches of rain. Sigh.
Two more funerals finished. 
This has been a fantastically, strange fall. 
I've driven nearly 1,100 miles in the past 4 days just trying to get myself in the correct locations for the correct people. Today I had the first speaking role and brother did the eulogy.

I've tried starting the MF 165 twice. I get no gas to the carb bowl. 
Have removed the carb and blew out everything. It all looks good, but I believe I'll have to use my welding tip cleaners and ream out (carefully) everything to be sure.
Have plenty of fuel coming out of the tank, out of the bowl, through the metal line, through the filter, but nothing in the bowl.
Then just about the time I start figuring out my plan B, the rain starts in again. 
So I have to put everything back together and try to keep the water out of it.
Ugh.
I'd say I need a wet suit, but that wouldn't keep the tractor dry.
I guess I need a pole barn... lol.

JW


----------



## FredM

It is strange that the carby has gone off the boil seeing you did have the engine running a little while back, I suppose your winter will put a kybosh on things shortly ?.


----------



## Just Wondering

Hi FredM...
Winter isn't til December around here.
Now that rain has been a game delay headache.

Got to spend two hours on the tractor today.
I took the carb off and cleaned out all the tiny little openings.
Put it all back on and it still wouldn't start.. still acts like it is starved.

Here's my question. There is a cylinder on the bottom of the carb that unscrews.








Its the round gizmo pointing down and to the right corner.

It has a screw in the bottom of it as if it was to adjust air coming in??
Anyhow, it seems like it is stopped up. The only way for me to blow air through it is if I completely remove the bottom screw in it.

There seems to be a weep hole at the bottom as well ... outside edge of where the screw goes in. I've sprayed throttle cleaner in it several times this afternoon and keep getting brown/ruddy red liquid out and little crumbly bits and pieces.

1. What is it?
2. Can I safely clean it by soaking in acetone.
3. If it is plugged up with lacquer, could it cause my non-start? Maybe vapor locking? (I smile because that sounds like I know what I'm talking about... really its just a phrase my dad used to say whenever anything didn't work on the vehicles ..lol).

JW


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## Just Wondering

Hi FredM...
Winter isn't til December around here.
Now that rain has been a game delay headache.

Got to spend two hours on the tractor today.
I took the carb off and cleaned out all the tiny little openings.
Put it all back on and it still wouldn't start.. still acts like it is starved.

Here's my question. There is a cylinder on the bottom of the carb that unscrews.
View attachment 41535

Its the round gizmo pointing down and to the right corner.

It has a screw in the bottom of it as if it was to adjust air coming in??
Anyhow, it seems like it is stopped up. The only way for me to blow air through it is if I completely remove the bottom screw in it.

There seems to be a weep hole at the bottom as well ... outside edge of where the screw goes in. I've sprayed throttle cleaner in it several times this afternoon and keep getting brown/ruddy red liquid out and little crumbly bits and pieces.

1. What is it?
2. Can I safely clean it by soaking in acetone.
3. If it is plugged up with lacquer, could it cause my non-start? Maybe vapor locking? (I smile because that sounds like I know what I'm talking about... really its just a phrase my dad used to say whenever anything didn't work on the vehicles ..lol).

JW


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## FredM

That looks like a fuel shutoff solenoid, why the heck would an older tractor have one of those ??.

JW have you ever unscrewed that fitting, remove it from the bowl and see if there is a thin fuel shutoff needle protruding from it, something like the attachment.








If it does then there should be a wire attached to the screw base to activate, this could be the likely cause of non starting. 

Someone else may have a different idea of what it is, so before I offer any more suggestions of how to test, I will wait until you have had a look at this fitting.


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## deerhide

That red liquid and crumbly bits sounds like water and dirt gunk to me.


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## deerhide

I guess you have taken the bottom(the float bowl) off. From the inside, what does that attachment seem to do? If there is something holding the float up,there will be no gas getting in the carb.(Wish I was there)


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## FredM

From this photo you can see the variable adjustable main jet fitting in the same location as in your carby photo.

You will need to remove this fitting from your carby bowl and take a couple of photos of the inside end and the screw end so it can be identified, on the screw end, on the threaded end where you remove the screw, is the thread housed in bakelite or is this all brass or metal ?.


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## Just Wondering

This is all brass and metal.
Looks like the first picture (solenoid). However, it has no wire on it. Didn't when we picked it up and still doesn't. I'm thinking the Prior Owner must have rigged what he had or 'borrowed' from another tractor.

I took the carb off again and paid more attention to the float and all the fiddly bits.
Took my can of cleaner and sprayed it in the opening from the gas line and it didn't drain anything into the carb top.

I took the float off and that little (forgive me for I know this is incorrect)... that little triangle shaped brass torpedo with the cone on it would not come out. Apparently it was lacquered into the closed position. So when I tested the float hinge on my earlier tries it all seemed good.

However, there was no 'plunging' action on that thing. So I cleaned it well, got it to release - carefully, and cleaned it again. Until I could spray cleaner in the gas line and it would drain out that opening. 

Put everything back together and it still wouldn't start.

Then, of course, my husband drives up on his zero turning mower and asks 'Did you turn the gas on?' Doh!

Turned the gas on, brother sprayed a bit of starter fluid and voila' it started.

It would run around 10k rpm and then after a bit shut off. Checking my gas tank, I'd pretty much run through the 2 gallons of gas I had put in it before I removed and reinstalled the carb a half dozen times. I'm pretty sure that its lack of gas in the tank now. Was getting dark so I had to quit.

Going to put the sheet metal and the bonnet on it tomorrow. Air up the low front tire and load it on the trailer to send it down to my brother. He can dial it in on the gas/air mixture to his liking. Already gave him a tube for the other front tire and prepaid for the guys at the tire shop to mount it. 

I'll resize my photos and put some eye candy on here.

JW


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## Just Wondering

I feel like I've been in a time warp.
Just earlier this summer I had no problem taking images off my phone and putting them on this forum. I could not for the life of me get any of my apps to download photos. I've spent two days futzing with this. Why in the world do we have to update software if it is already working? The apps don't play with the new OS on the phone. Which means its not really a phone, its a dang computer that can make phone calls. I just want a landline back again. This is too much for my brain this past week... whine whine whine. lol

Finally, I reloaded software on the computer and synced my phone to the computer and finally have all the phone pictures on the computer... resizing as I write this.

Hanging my head in shame... there are 9000 plus photos on my phone and easily 3/4 of them are pictures of engines, wiring, hoses, carbs, nuts, bolts, tires, rims, more tires, ... oh lordy.


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## Just Wondering

Whoops... got so caught up in the drama.

*IT'S ALIVE !!
*
This morning I set out to determine which vehicles worked and which didn't.
*87 Chrysler Fifth Avenue - won't start,* going to replace the fuel filter. If I pour gas in the carb it runs til its dry, then dies. Vacuum lines look good and the choke is moving freely. 

*2003 Suburban - starts* and runs fine.

*2000 Chevy Silverado - starts* (oil leak under it and was out of power steering fluid) and runs

*1997 Ford Diesel Dually - won't start,* going to replace the fuel filter, has spark, won't turn over

*Massey Ferguson 165 - Starts. * Throttle cable was jammed. Lever would barely move. Must have gotten some gunk around it when I was cleaning. Moving the lever with more purpose and vigor and suddenly - wham ... the engine roars! Course its blowing black smoke so I think I need to adjust the screw on the side of the carb (too rich?). If the same principle I use on the golf cart applies to the tractor, then I need to lean it out. (doesn't that sound like I know what I'm doing...hahahaha).

*Yamaha Gas Golf cart with clone engine - won't start.* Its electrical which means black magic voodoo is needed to get it working again... ugh.

JW


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## Just Wondering

Today was a banner day.
I managed to get the sheet metal back on the tractor with only 7 bolts left over and only 3 bolt holes that wont line up, and 2 bolt holes that the bolts are too short to reach, leaving me with a grand total of 2 left over bolts! My best so far.

I'll have to look at my parts book again and see where I went wrong.
*
Started the tractor up and it worked fine, was a warm day so I didn't need much choke.*

I actually put it in gear and moved forward, squealing like a little girl!

*Problem 1: Clattering*
Took it in a big circle and it was clattering. I thought it was coming from the front. Husband said he thought it was the back. I stopped and we repositioned the draw bar lever. He thought it got quieter.

Got it lined up on the trailer and after a couple of tries, got it up on the trailer but I was too far forward of the trailer wheels and on the tongue.

*Problem 2: Reverse*
Does this tractor have reverse? I could not figure it out.
There are two levers, bigger and closer to the engine. 
Left one has 4 'slots' : left top & right top, left bottom & right bottom.
Right one has 2 'slots': top & bottom
I was expecting reverse to be all the way left and bottom OR all the way right and bottom.
Couldn't find it.
Sooooo, I put it in neutral and we put a chain around it and drug it back about 20 inches to equalize the weight on the trailer.
Doesn't solve my problem of reverse but at least it is better on the trailer.
*
Problem 3: Radiator Fluid*
After I stopped on the trailer and turned the engine off, radiator fluid was draining out the bottom. I got off and it looked like it was coming out the seam where the thermostat sits. I did put new hoses on it, new clamps, new gasket, but reused the old thermostat.
I think the bolts holding the water 'spout' housing were tight but apparently there is a gap there when things get hot.
For now, I removed the two bolts holding it on and will see about using rtv gasket maker and get your opinions.


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## Just Wondering

The top of the gizmo that sticks out of the carb at the bottom of it.









The gunk I was getting out of it and a look at the bottom of the gizmo.


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## Just Wondering

Putting the new filter on the power steering pump.








Cleaned up the little 'tensioner' or 'adjuster' that is at the top of the power steering cylinder. No built up grime now.








Power steering cylinder installed... waiting for me to put the lines on and the tensioner at the top. Notice that fine looking duct tape closing off the holes for the power steering lines. EVERY job needs duct tape.


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## Just Wondering

The bottom of this spout/housing is where I was leaking fluid.









My thermostat/spout housing with partial gasket and plenty of rust.









Cleaned up and a new gasket I made.

I believe this is where the leak occurred after I ran it enough to drive in a circle and get it on the trailer. Need help understanding that leak.


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## Just Wondering

My cat brought me a dead pack rat... I am loved!


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## FredM

Just Wondering said:


> View attachment 41861
> 
> The bottom of this spout/housing is where I was leaking fluid.
> 
> View attachment 41855
> 
> My thermostat/spout housing with partial gasket and plenty of rust.
> 
> View attachment 41857
> 
> Cleaned up and a new gasket I made.
> 
> I believe this is where the leak occurred after I ran it enough to drive in a circle and get it on the trailer. Need help understanding that leak.


It is possible that the base of the thermostat may not be sitting in the recess correctly and this then would cause the housing not to seal correctly because of resting on part of the thermostat, seeing that your housing is in the vertical, this would be where I would check, you could place a couple of small dabs of silicone sealer on the thermostat base at 180° to hold it in position until you got the housing in place and bolted up.


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## FredM

Just Wondering said:


> Left one has 4 'slots' : left top & right top, left bottom & right bottom.
> Right one has 2 'slots': top & bottom
> I was expecting reverse to be all the way left and bottom OR all the way right and bottom.


Your 4 slot or "H" pattern would be 3 forwards and one reverse, reverse should be to the left and up, left and straight down is first, right and up is second and right and down is third.
The 2 slot is high and low range.


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## FredM

noticed the spout section of the housing is rusty looking, have you wire brushed that at all, the radiator hose also needs a reasonable seat to seal also.


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## deerhide

IMPORTANT; always shift an older MF with the palm of your hand ON TOP OF the shift knob, don't 'lift' it........the end of the shifter inside the trans can get out of the rail if you lift up and it's a nuisance to get it back again(through the oil filler hole with a good screwdriver).


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## Just Wondering

Apparently I was moving it in second gear. What a relief to know it’s plain ignorance on my part rather than I broke something


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## Just Wondering

I’ll certainly remember to shift with my palm on the shifter knob. Thanks for that advice


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## Just Wondering

I did my best to scrape off and then sand the face smooth before I installed the assembly. The thermostat looked like it was still seated well when I removed the assembly after it cooled down. I’m thinking of adding etc gasket sealer to it and trying again. 

How do you know if the water pump is bad?


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## Just Wondering

Here is a picture of the housing after it cooled down so I could release it yesterday. Sure seems like everything looks normal but it’s as if the gasket is too thin


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## FredM

Just Wondering said:


> View attachment 41861
> 
> The bottom of this spout/housing is where I was leaking fluid.
> 
> View attachment 41855
> 
> My thermostat/spout housing with partial gasket and plenty of rust.
> 
> View attachment 41857
> 
> Cleaned up and a new gasket I made.
> 
> I believe this is where the leak occurred after I ran it enough to drive in a circle and get it on the trailer. Need help understanding that leak.











in the photo of the cleaned up and new gasket, is there part of the gasket still attached to the thermostat housing/outlet, I have attached the photo in question, did you remove this broken gasket ??, if this is the case then you will certainly have a leak, I am not knocking you, you are a good woman to attempt what you are doing, but the surfaces have to be very clean, usually a wire buff wheel on a bench grinder to clean up the face and spout of the thermostat housing and a scraper and wet and dry paper on the head section.

Your thermostat does seem to be seated correctly as per photo.

when you nip the two studs up, tighten these with little nips equally, if you pull one stud down tight and then the other, this can pull the cover to seat unequal also and cause a leak.

What I thought was a fuel shutoff solenoid on your carby is not!!, I will be honest and say I have no idea what that is, and I also would have thought that someone would have picked this up and let you know what the dickens this may be, sorry.


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## FredM

The water pump will leak around the pulley shaft, if the impeller is worn out/rusted, the water wont circulate properly and the engine will run hotter/overheat, you will have to keep your eye on the temp. gauge when you are working it.

You can also remove the radiator cap before you start up and let the engine warm up, after reaching running temp. check the water flow through the filler spout, you should be able to see the water circulating by looking through the filler spout.


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## deerhide

Your transmission isn't a syncronized one .......you can start and go in all 6 gears depending on the load.


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## Just Wondering

I did scrape and clean both surfaces. Just got behind in the picture taking. 

I did use rtv this afternoon and got everything back on. 

I think I had two issues. The new clamp could have been a little loose and I think one of the bolts wasn’t as secure as the other.

Am delivering the tractor to my brother this week and having another set of eyes on it will help.

Got two days of doctor visits so there is a bit of game delay til later in the week.


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## FredM

I am sure you will have things under control, you have done an exceptionally good job on the power steering ram removal and refit, so a little thermostat housing shouldn't faze you any.

Waiting for the day when you get to drive the 165 for more than a few minutes so you can give us all a rundown on how you think the tractor is.


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## Just Wondering

*VICTORY!!!!*

Here we go...
I put rtv gasket maker on the surfaces and reconnected things to the water pump.
Made sure all my hose clamps were tight. The top one was looser than the top one.

I compared all my pictures and realized that I did not connect the power steering cylinder armature correctly. 

But I corrected the error...









Was in the field with the tractor and didn't want to walk back over to the house to get yet another box wrench, so I just used a quarter to pad it and worked with what I had to begin removing the power steering cylinder (again).









This was bugging me. I put everything back together and this is sitting too low in comparison to my original pictures. No wonder I had no where to put the circle clip and shim. It steered, but it clattered. Dang it.









So why didn't I check below BEFORE I put all the bolts in and closed up everything? I don't know. Younger brother pointed out the obvious to me.









Used my truck jack and a short piece of wood to push the power steering main shaft assembly up higher. Don't pull it up... push it up. All followed by that great rush of 'feel good' when you realize you solved the problem.









Dang it looks better!


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## Just Wondering

Then put everything back together again, reinstalled the power steering cylinder, the lines, the sheet metal, and the grill.

Made sure the brakes were on and it was in gear, then strapped that tractor down to the trailer-- one set pulling to the rear, one set of straps pulling to the front.

Drove 17 miles to the estate and called my brother to come over.









I really like this dove tail trailer after I had the ramps removed off the back. Pulls easier and isn't so heavy . Its heavy enough with a tractor on it. 

Thats my older brother on it (and yes he gets on it much more gracefully than I).
We then spend 1 hour trying to get it to run. Sigh.
Eventually, we figured out it wasn't the carb, the air intake, or the fuel line.
I believe there was a 'shake down' of sediment inside the tank that fell into the inlet for the sediment bowl. Even though I had already cleaned the tank twice with acetone.

Removed the sediment bowl and drained more gas out of the tank. Put things back together and Shazam! it was alive again.

The best part of all....








Happy older brother.
He also got a new seat & seat back with appropriate hardward to install.
And a short list of things to do:
1. take the tube I gave him last month for his birthday & the nearly flat front tire down to get the tube put in since the rim won't hold air.
2. check all the fluids again
3. Fill the gas tank... we used all the ethanol free gas we normally use on the riding mower to be sure we had enough for the gravity feed to send the fluid to the carb on the tractor.
4. Look through all the tools in the tool box on the left fender and figure out what we need to go by. I think the ***** and pliers in there were rusted shut from non-use and rain/weather.
5. Install the new seat.
and just in general make it his own.

One trailer and one tractor off my property-- check
One working tractor delivered to my brother as a 3 week late birthday gift -- check
This thread is updated with pictures -- check..

Next up is a Ford 841 I've already got sold to my Uncle once I get it running.
JW


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