# Cub Cadet 3402 no fuel from tank



## Wrxlr8

I have a CC with a Kohler Command 20. The tractor quit on me twice after running fine. No fuel in fuel filter both times. Here is what I have done so far. Blown air through both ways in and out of gas tank. Checked fuel solenoid seems to be working at least when it starts. Cleaned main jet in carb. Disconnected gas line from carb cranked and fuel pump seems to be working. Cleaned gas cap It will run for a few seconds and die. My question is will the solenoid if not functioning properly keep the pump from pulling gas up to the filter? The tank is full and when I disconnect at the filter on the tank side no gas is coming out. I have already purchased new fuel line and am ready to buy a pump and solenoid. Thanks for any and all help.


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## Ed Williams

I would vote for a faulty solenoid. Fairly common on coil driven units. Fuel pumps are generally good or bad. I would change solenoid first, then give fuel pump an extended run back to tank. I had a vacuum solenoid on my Blazer that controls 4 x 4 engagement. Sometimes tested good, sometimes bad. Got aggravated and changed it out when I could not get it to work during heavy snow. Bought an OEM AcDelco that was $72. Cried all the way to the bank.


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## Wrxlr8

Ed Williams said:


> I would vote for a faulty solenoid. Fairly common on coil driven units. Fuel pumps are generally good or bad. I would change solenoid first, then give fuel pump an extended run back to tank. I had a vacuum solenoid on my Blazer that controls 4 x 4 engagement. Sometimes tested good, sometimes bad. Got aggravated and changed it out when I could not get it to work during heavy snow. Bought an OEM AcDelco that was $72. Cried all the way to the bank.


So I’m wondering if I cut the plunger off the solenoid to try before I start ordering parts? Baffles me that no fuel will run from the tank. I’m also unsure if the fuel system needs primed for it to suck gas from the tank?


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## FredM

Wrxlr8 said:


> The tank is full and when I disconnect at the filter on the tank side no gas is coming out.


you've answered your own question, no fuel no run, if you can hear the carby solenoid click when you turn the ign key to run position, solenoid is ok, they either work or they don't work.

when you say you have blown the tank out both ways, did you remove the fuel hose from the tank spigot and blow through the spigot or did you blow through the hose??, it is possible that the fuel hose has collapsed inside and is creating a blockage, a lot of fuel tanks have a fine mesh filter on the outlet inside the tank, if you have a small torch, it might pay you to have a look at this filter and inside the tank as well, as much as you can, when you cleaned the fuel cap, I would have thought you would have checked the breathing hole in the cap too ??.


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## Wrxlr8

FredM said:


> you've answered your own question, no fuel no run, if you can hear the carby solenoid click when you turn the ign key to run position, solenoid is ok, they either work or they don't work.
> 
> when you say you have blown the tank out both ways, did you remove the fuel hose from the tank spigot and blow through the spigot or did you blow through the hose??, it is possible that the fuel hose has collapsed inside and is creating a blockage, a lot of fuel tanks have a fine mesh filter on the outlet inside the tank, if you have a small torch, it might pay you to have a look at this filter and inside the tank as well, as much as you can, when you cleaned the fuel cap, I would have thought you would have checked the breathing hole in the cap too ??.


I meant by the fuel filter which is beside the engine. For whatever reason they designed the fuel lines to run up out of the tank so gravity is not going to feed it. I’ll work on it again tonight. The gas cap is clear of obstruction and doesn’t make a difference with it off. I covered the fill hole and blew air into the tank and it pushed fuel through the lines easily. I’ll take some pictures also when I get back to it.


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## Wrxlr8

0142F6A6-4E94-4395-B05A-A542B0C23916




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Wrxlr8


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May 15, 2020


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## Wrxlr8

Tonight I cut the plunger off the solenoid in the carb. Filled fuel filter with gas and sucked gas from tank with a bulb. The tractor fires right up runs for 5 seconds and stops. So I think I eliminated the possibility of the solenoid and obstruction in the lines. I ordered a fuel pump and a new solenoid. The picture posted is the filter with no gas like when it shuts off. I’ll update after the fuel pump and new solenoid are installed.


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## FredM

a lot of times a fuel filter will not completely fill, but the fuel is running through.


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## Ed Williams

On my Cub GTX 1054 w/ 27 HP Kohler I get a full line of gas flow with the motor off by gravity. The filter looks like it is only 1/4 full.


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## Tom Whitman WHITMAN

Is it possible the fuel line is cracked somewhere and sucking air?


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## Bob Driver

I clean a lot of carburetors. I have a couple of old fuel tanks off push mowers I use to "gravity prime" for the initial start after I've had a carb off.

I also use them and a set of fuel line pliers, to avoid a fuel mess, to troubleshoot problems just like yours. I start at the short fuel line between the fuel pump and the carb and work my way back to the tank. Process of elimination ....

I always replace the short line between the carb and fuel pump with clear fuel line after I've had a carb off. I've had a couple of customers bring back machines a week after I've done some carb work for a "No-start", where I've had to borrow those famous 3 words from Karl Childers... "It's outta gas"


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## Tom Whitman WHITMAN

One after thought...Have you or anyone removed the left rear fender assembly and replaced recently. Reason I asked is because once on my 3185, it too wouldn't start due no fuel to carburetor. Turns out the fuel line was pinched between the fender and frame on reattachment...


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## Wrxlr8

I’m still waiting on the fuel pump and solenoid. The rear fenders have not been removed so it can’t be pinched. It is possible there is a crack in the line between the fuel filter and the tank. That’s me last resort as I am trying not to disassemble any farther if not necessary. Thanks everyone for the tips. I’ll update again soon. Parts should be in on Wednesday.


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## Ed Williams

I ran into a similar problem with my JD. I had cleaned and blown out every thing I could think of and installed new fuel line. The JD would run very well for 5 minutes, then quit. I finally decided as a final check before I started replacing parts, to check the suction scru pcuhpeen on the tank pick up tube. I pulled the tank off the mower and removed the pick up tube from the tank. 9pUp0ypj7 There was no suction screen on the pick up tube, but I could not blow air thru the tube by mouth. I wound up cutting the fitting off a 22 cal wire brush, wrapping a small wire around the remanents of the brush and pulling the brush thru the pick up tube. I did this 10 times using ATF as a lubricant, then flushed with gas. Problem cured. 3 years now and no problems at all.


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## jhngardner367

Simple flow test:
Get one of those turkey basters,and see if you can draw any fuel from the tank.
If this has a plastic fuel pump,it may not be getting vacuum from the engine,to run the pump.Check the hose from the pump,to the engine.
Some are on a crankcase fitting,and others go to the valve cover breather.


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## Groo

venting? what happens when you take the cap off?


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## Wrxlr8

jhngardner367 said:


> Simple flow test:
> Get one of those turkey basters,and see if you can draw any fuel from the tank.
> If this has a plastic fuel pump,it may not be getting vacuum from the engine,to run the pump.Check the hose from the pump,to the engine.
> Some are on a crankcase fitting,and others go to the valve cover breather.


I can draw fuel through easily this way. I replaced the line from the pump to the carb. Makes no difference with the gas cap off. It has a mechanical pump on the valve cover which I have ordered a new one.


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## Tom Whitman WHITMAN

Ignition switch connections? Once mine just stopped running. Checked everything fuel related then pulled ignition switch and found loose connector. Tightened female connectors with a set of long nose pliers. Fixed that particular issue.


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## jhngardner367

Ok the pumps on the valve cover were noted for going out,.
Had one at the shop,that always gave trouble.


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## Wrxlr8

Fuel pump is changed it will start and run up to 3/4 throttle then it dies. Main jet in the carb dirty?


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## Wrxlr8

42D34B4E-442C-4C4E-81F9-0E5A7410AAA2




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Wrxlr8


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May 20, 2020




New pump









  








1E8198F7-9D14-48C3-B73D-98002850D00A




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Wrxlr8


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May 20, 2020




Old pump


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## Wrxlr8




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## Groo

if you spritz it with carb cleaner as it is dying, and it stays running, it is a fuel problem.

could it be oil pressure shut-down? they usually have a delay so they actually start.


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## Tom Whitman WHITMAN

Moisture in fuel...? SEAFOAM. Do a dose every Spring startup just in case. Cheap fix in long run along with usual PM. Some models have a low oil or low oil pressure safety cut off. When oil warms up it doses density and low oil volume could contribute to a fuel shut down scenario. All we can do out here is throw in ideas, every once in a while we may win. I do mean 'every once in a while'.


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## Groo

If it is a fuel issue, I would look at the float needle.


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## Groo

Tom Whitman WHITMAN said:


> Moisture in fuel...? SEAFOAM. Do a dose every Spring startup just in case. Cheap fix in long run along with usual PM. Some models have a low oil or low oil pressure safety cut off. When oil warms up it doses density and low oil volume could contribute to a fuel shut down scenario. All we can do out here is throw in ideas, every once in a while we may win. I do mean 'every once in a while'.


That struck as way too quick for a viscosity loss, but maybe? I was thinking more that was the delay you get initially before it shuts things down. If it cuts spark whenever there is no oil pressure, it would never start. There must be some sort of delay when starting.


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## Wrxlr8

Groo said:


> if you spritz it with carb cleaner as it is dying, and it stays running, it is a fuel problem.
> 
> could it be oil pressure shut-down? they usually have a delay so they actually start.


It does not stay running with carb cleaner. It will run without shutting off at a lower rpm so would that still indicate an oil pressure problem? Prior to this issue it was surging at full throttle but now as soon as I go full throttle it shuts off. I’m stumped here. It’s acting like it’s not getting fuel at wide open. My next course of action is to replace the carburetor. I’ve checked most of the wires and they all look good.


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## Wrxlr8

I’m wondering if the old fuel filter was leaking gas into the engine. Would that cause an oil pressure situation?


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## Bob Driver

Wrxlr8 said:


> Fuel pump is changed it will start and run up to 3/4 throttle then it dies. Main jet in the carb dirty?


That's a Keihin Carburetor..... Main jet is behind the brass seat for the anti-backfire solenoid valve.

This guy is a complete knucklehead and it's hard to believe people actually pay him to work on engines, but take a look at 11:06 in the video. After bitching about Nick bending his screw driver, he does actually figure out where the main jet is located and how to get to it.


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## Groo

When the carb went bad on my old deere, it would idle just fine, but when the fuel sloshed a bit or whatever, it would flood the engine. I was suspecting a damaged float, but never confirmed that suspicion.

eta: a new carb fixed it though


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## Groo

Wrxlr8 said:


> I’m wondering if the old fuel filter was leaking gas into the engine. Would that cause an oil pressure situation?


Your oil level would be ridiculously high


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## Wrxlr8

Thanks for all the input everyone giving me some new avenues to investigate. I have been treating with seafoam. Since the end of last year. Anyone have any suggestions for removing the main jet without taking the carburetor off? I can get it unscrewed but need something to pull it out with.


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## Wrxlr8




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## Wrxlr8

EC8275F4-C3E7-4806-97DE-323748676E4E




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Wrxlr8


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May 21, 2020




Oil fill side









  








A644B98C-1611-4FC2-9BF5-089C61916F3F




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Wrxlr8


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May 21, 2020




Dipstick side


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## Groo

Turn off your lights in the garage when it is running and see if you have any stray spark. I saw that once. cool as heck.

basically, once the spark energy got hot enough (at higher throttle) the spark overcame the wire insulator resistance, starting arcing to the block, and it ran like crap.

unrelated, but the absolute weirdest spark related thing I ever saw; must have been a cracked spark plug. The rototiller would not run when the boot was on the plug. I pulled it off, and pulled it over, trying to get a better idea of what might be going on...and it started running. the spark was jumping from the open boot to what must have been a crack in the side of the plug, and then made it to the electrode. the path from the terminal wasn't conducting any longer. It took me a bit to realize that the garden was probably not on an Indian burial ground, and what was actually going on.


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## willy81

my cub cadet would not start no gas to carb vaccum to fuel pump gone no vaccum instead of trying
to figure out why no vaccum I pujt a $10 electric fuel pump on, if it sits for a couple months need to
use the choke otherwise turn key and its running and don't have to use choke


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## Tom Whitman WHITMAN

Have a source link for that fuel pump? Thanks, Tom


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## Groo

Probably just go to a parts store a d tell them you want an electric fuel pump for a carb.


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## Wrxlr8

Today I completely removed the carb took apart and cleaned. Now it won’t run hardly at all. I think I’m gonna try a new fuel filter and if that’s not it I’m gonna just pay someone to fix it. It’s been down for 3 weeks now and I’m getting tired of messing with it. I really don’t want to pull the back fender off. I’ll keep you posted on what I find.


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## Tom Whitman WHITMAN

Anything happening on your Cub yet?


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## Wrxlr8

Tom Whitman WHITMAN said:


> Anything happening on your Cub yet?


Looking for someone to work on it. I’ll post the results when it’s fixed and they figure it out. I’m thinking it has to be a cracked fuel line or the pickup in the tank. I’m going to try to run a line from another fuel source to the pump before it goes.


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## Wrxlr8

Update. 
After all the work and guessing it appears that there was air in the lines and once the fuel system was primed it it running fine now. I have not mowed with it yet and that will be the real test. Getting the throttle linkage and a new fuel filter put on this evening. I’ll post another update after I mow with it.


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## Wrxlr8

So I mowed 1 and a half times and it’s back to what it was doing before. Ran good for about 4 hours and then starved itself out of fuel again. Back to the drawing board.


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## pogobill

Plugged up fuel filter?


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## Tom Whitman WHITMAN

So, you replaced fuel line?


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## FredM

very strange happenings, you have stated the fuel cap has been cleaned and the breather hole is clear, does your fuel line connect to the top of the tank and a tube then goes down towards the bottom of the tank inside??, if this is the case, then there could be a crack in the pickup tube, either outside at the top of the tank or inside the tank, if there was a crack in the fuel line between the tank and fuel filter, then you would see a fuel leak, the system is sucking air between the fuel pump and the tank pickup.

You have paid money for the good guys to fix your problem and they haven't, so I would approach them again and tell them it is not fixed.


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## Wrxlr8

So another update. First of all yes the fuel line is at the top of the tank and the pickup goes to the bottom. The fuel line is now replaced from the tank to the filter. After that was completed it ran fine for an hour or so and then started acting up again. At that point the person working on it cleaned the fuel cap which I had already done but he claims it is fixed and running good. He said he removed the little button inside the cap. We will see when I mow. I just finished all the maintenance on the deck and sharpened the blades. Picking it up tonight and mowing tomorrow. Can not believe after all this it possibly was the gas cap???? I’ll post another update after I mow.


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## FredM

had to be something simple!!!!, but then you did mention previously that you tried to run the engine with the cap off !!!!, so I guess we wait and see.


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## Tom Whitman WHITMAN

Inquiring minds want to know!


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## Wrxlr8

Tom Whitman WHITMAN said:


> Inquiring minds want to know!


Has been running good however we are in a drought so I only mowed once. I’ll keep the thread posted once I get a couple more mows in.


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