# IH 484 will not start



## bobinhouston

Just picked up an International Harvester 484 today. Started fine when I got it but when I got home could not get it off the trailer (starter was not turning over). Tapped the starter with a hammer and it cranked and started. Got it off the trailer and it died. Anyway where I am now is that it appears the starter may not be all that good (takes a while before it finally sounds normal and tries to start the tractor). Tractor started one more time ran for 2 seconds and died again. I don't think it's getting gas. There was fuel in the tank but I added a little more diesel. Still won't start. Appears to be starved for gas. I have a few questions and would appreciate any help you guys can offer:
1) Any suggestions on where can I get the correct most accurate manual for this tractor ? I'm not even sure if it is a Farmal or what year it is. the plate on the engine says it is a 1-484 and it has the saddle bag type gas tanks and the grill with 12 squares (4x3). It was made in England. The right rear gas tank has a petcock valve to shut off that tank I guess. Not sure why that was needed.
2) My decals are all worn but there is one decal that puzzles me. It is on the engine block and it says "fuel water separator - Drain daily after shutdown. Open valve at bottom of case and drain until clear diesel fuel appears." I never had a diesel before. Any idea what that is ?
3) I know my first step is to get a manual and I plan to do that but would appreciate any suggestions you could offer. 
Thanks


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## Country Boy

The fuel water separator is just that, a device that separates out any water that may get in the fuel. Water in a diesel engine can cause damage or poor running. There should be a unit in one of the fuel lines by the engine that has a petcock on the bottom that you can open up and drain the water separator. I'd try that, along with making sure that the petcock on the tank is actually on. The fuel outlet on the bottom of the tank could be plugged, we get insects and dirt in our 574's fuel tank from time to time that plug up the fuel outlet. The 574 is a similar model that was also made in England and has the same fuel tank. I don't know if your tank has a fuel sediment bowl on the output line like our gas 574 does (its a glass bowl attached to an aluminum housing and incorporates the shutoff valve for the fuel tank), but if it does, I'd recommend cleaning it out.

It could also be a fuel pump or filter issue. If the transfer pump is bad, it won't bring fuel to the injector pump, and if the filters are plugged, fuel won't be able to get to the pump either. Try loosening the fuel line from the tank where it attaches to the injector pump. Crank the engine over and see if fuel sprays out. If it does, tighten it back up and loosen the hard lines that hook to each injector at the injector and crank it over again until fuel comes out without any bubbles. Retighten the lines, and then try to start it. That bleeds the air from the system, and air in an injector line makes it almost impossible to start the engine.


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## Miaugi

Congrats on the new tractor, I just bought the exact model with a loader about 4 weeks ago. Hope you get your issues all figured out and get to put that puppy to work! 

BTW...welcome to the Tractor Forum!!!


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## bobinhouston

Thanks Country Boy and Miaugi - I will give that a try and let you know the results. 
Any recommendations on where to get parts if I need them?


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## bobinhouston

*484 still wont start*

Well here is where I am. My 484 has 2 fuel filters. The one on the right I guess is what is called the primary and the one on the left goes into a Bosch injector. There is no screw on the bottom of the primary but there is a vent valve on top so I opened the vent valve. I then went to the left fuel filter and opened the vent valve and took the bolt out of the bottom. A few ounces of fuel came out and then it was dry. Cranked it but it would not start. I did not undo any fuel lines cause I'm not sure yet which ones to disconnect so I will have to look at that a little more. 
Bought an operators manual (downloaded) but it references a number of IH models so it is not specific to my 484. Texas Sun is pretty hot and the tractor died right in a spot where there are NO trees (wonderful) and the front loader is on the ground so I can't tow it. Had to get back in the A/C for awhile.
I have a question however.................I bought this tractor at an auction and can't understand why it ran perfectly for the 5 minutes I tried it but it died at home. Here is the question - Can you manually put fuel in a fuel filter and start an engine. If so, the seller (I don't know who he/she was) could have done that and then the tractor would run until it emptied the fuel filter. Is there any way that would work ? If so I'll give it a shot but would appreciate some feedback / advice before I do it. The only other tractor I had was a Ford 600 (like a 9N) and that was simple compared to this one.
Thanks again


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## BelarusBulldog

bobinhouston said:


> Well here is where I am. My 484 has 2 fuel filters. The one on the right I guess is what is called the primary and the one on the left goes into a Bosch injector. There is no screw on the bottom of the primary but there is a vent valve on top so I opened the vent valve. I then went to the left fuel filter and opened the vent valve and took the bolt out of the bottom. A few ounces of fuel came out and then it was dry. Cranked it but it would not start. I did not undo any fuel lines cause I'm not sure yet which ones to disconnect so I will have to look at that a little more.
> Bought an operators manual (downloaded) but it references a number of IH models so it is not specific to my 484. Texas Sun is pretty hot and the tractor died right in a spot where there are NO trees (wonderful) and the front loader is on the ground so I can't tow it. Had to get back in the A/C for awhile.
> I have a question however.................I bought this tractor at an auction and can't understand why it ran perfectly for the 5 minutes I tried it but it died at home. Here is the question - Can you manually put fuel in a fuel filter and start an engine. If so, the seller (I don't know who he/she was) could have done that and then the tractor would run until it emptied the fuel filter. Is there any way that would work ? If so I'll give it a shot but would appreciate some feedback / advice before I do it. The only other tractor I had was a Ford 600 (like a 9N) and that was simple compared to this one.
> Thanks again


Welcome Bob to the site. As you have stated, it sounds like it's not getting fuel to the pump. You are going to have to trace the lines back to the tanks to see why no fuel. Sometimes it can be something simple like a valve that is shut off, or a vent plugged. You need to blow compressed air back through the fuel line , to the tank to make sure that part of the system is clear. If it is, then your trouble is from the filters to the injectors. You may just have a plugged or collapsed fuel filter. By the way, you can still tow your tractor back to the shed, just slip the tow cable under the bucket and onto the tractor. As you begin to pull, move the valve lever to the up or float position. This should raise the loader arms. If that doesn't work, tow it backwards! Keep us posted. Bye


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## cyrush

HERE is a collection of posts i have had on various forums regarding the fuel systems on these tractors.

re74 & 84 series fuel troubles, some comments i put on a USA forum.

O/k a no of points.

There is no temperature sensor or electronics on this Bosch pump. Most likley cause of the problem is low fuel.

Let me explain!! These tractors are not fitted with a lift pump as the injector pump has an internal transfer pump. This has two functions, a( to draw fuel from the tank to supply the injection system b) to provide internal transfer pressure to allow the hydraulic governor in the injector pump to control engine rpms

Low fuel or momentory lack of fuel as low fuel level in tank sloshes around may allow air to be drawn in which will affect transfer pressure and hence engine speed control hence the surging. 

The transfer pump has a strong suction and it has been known to collapse blocked filters allowing rhe crap in the filter to contaminate the injector pump (very expensive!!!!)

A way around the problem is to keep tank full (should always be full anyway to stop condensation) and to fit as an accessory an electric lift pump like a facet as fitted to 84s tractors fitted with the Seckure Cab where the fuel tank was uhder the cab floor, down side of transmission. 

Hope this answers your query??


You might have aproblem bleeding it so here is some info from areply on another forum about a584.

Yes no lift pump, can be a bit of apain to re bleed, the system relies on the transfer pump in the injector pump sucking it through . Do not rely on running till filters are stuffed full and tractor will not run, suction from transfer pump has been known to cause genuine Bosch filters to collapse allowing the crap in the filter to contaminate the injector pump. Very expensive!!!!!

Hints to help, 1) before making filter change fill up fuel tank. 2) if tractro is on a slope have engine facing downhill so tank is higher.3) Use of a low pressure airline to pressurise tank (with some shop cloths around filler neck will get fuel flowing quicker) 4) make sure battery is in agood state of charge to allow plenty of cranking to suck fuel through.5) finally crack off 1 or 2 injector lines to clear air from HP side of injector pump.



See att 

Layout of fuel tank supply & rtn lines + balance line.

Suggest to clean out tank, remove all valves and balance line

Valves/ Fittings going into tank have a stub pipe sticking apx 1.5inches up inside tank so bottom of tank legs acts as a crap collector. over the years this builds up untill crap level now interferes with the fuel flow into stub pipes Best cleaning tool is a pressure washer lance, single jet used through yhe filler and fuel sender holes.

Hope this helps???


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## Country Boy

From what you described with the filters (only a small amount of fuel came out) I'd suspect that the filters are either blocked, or that the fuel line from the tank to the filters is plugged. If the fuel tank on the tractor is filled above the level of the filters, fuel should be flowing to the drain on the secondary filter. If it is not, then either the fuel line is plugged, or the fuel outlet on the tank is plugged. I'd start at the filters and work my way back to the tank. Try loosening the fuel line where it attaches to the first filter from the tank and see if fuel leaks out. If not, tighten it and try loosening the line that hooks to the petcock on the bottom of the tank and see if fuel leaks there. If it does, then the line is probably blocked. Try blowing some air through the line with both ends off to blow out any junk caught in there. If the fuel doesn't leak by loosening the fitting on the petcock, try blowing some air back through the petcock and into the tank. I have seen them plug up on our 574 more than once, so it does happen. If fuel then flows out the petcock, hook up the lines again and try to bleed the air out by opening the filter drain again and letting the fuel flow. I'd change the fuel filters in any case just so you know when they were last changed, and so you know they are clean. You will need to bleed the fuel system up to the injector pump and then to the injectors before you will be able to start it. A diesel will not start with air in the injector lines.


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## bobinhouston

*more on IH 484*

Thanks for all the advice. Ordering 2 new filters sounds good. I will try the steps you describe to see if I can find the blockage. Will get some more fuel tomorrow and go from there.

Any idea where I can order the fuel filters.............?
Is a 484 a 484 or are there different filters based on when the tractors were made ?

Again - thanks for all your help.


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## Miaugi

a 484 is unique, both earlier & later models used different numbers. Here is a link to give you a little more info on the the 484. IH 484


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## bobinhouston

Let me check it out, now that I have recorded serial numbers.............................thanks


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## bobinhouston

*Update on my 484*

Well here is where I am at today....Checked to see fuel was flowing. loosened nut on both tanks and fuel dripped.
Loosened nut on line going to primary fuel filter and fuel dripped out (with bubbles) . Cannot get nut loose on line going into second filter and I have a tendency to break things so I quit trying. However I loosened the nut at the bottom of the second filter and fuel came out (plus a couple of trash fragments and a small piece of string). Again only a few ounces like the first time I took the bolt out. My battery is dead so I am charging it and am not sure if I should try to crank the engine again since a bit of trash came out of the second filter.................any thoughts ????
I have two questions that you'all may think are ridiculous but I ask anyway:
1) The petcock on the second fuel tank is spun all the way open (as long as it can get). Hopefully that means it is open and not closed.....correct ?
2) There is no shutoff on this engine. If I take the key out it keeps running (when I first got it started). There is a handle on the dash that I was told to pull out to stop the engine and push in when I am cranking and want it to start. Is this correct and is this something with old tractors or just with diesel ?
I am going to attempt to attach a fuel schematic I did and would appreciate comments on that.


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## bobinhouston

*Update on my 484*

Well here is where I am at today....Checked to see fuel was flowing. loosened nut on both tanks and fuel dripped.
Loosened nut on line going to primary fuel filter and fuel dripped out (with bubbles) . Cannot get nut loose on line going into second filter and I have a tendency to break things so I quit trying. However I loosened the nut at the bottom of the second filter and fuel came out (plus a couple of trash fragments and a small piece of string). Again only a few ounces like the first time I took the bolt out. My battery is dead so I am charging it and am not sure if I should try to crank the engine again since a bit of trash came out of the second filter.................any thoughts ????
I have two questions that you'all may think are ridiculous but I ask anyway:
1) The petcock on the second fuel tank is spun all the way open (as long as it can get). Hopefully that means it is open and not closed.....correct ?
2) There is no shutoff on this engine. If I take the key out it keeps running (when I first got it started). There is a handle on the dash that I was told to pull out to stop the engine and push in when I am cranking and want it to start. Is this correct and is this something with old tractors or just with diesel ?
I am going to attempt to attach a fuel schematic I did and would appreciate comments on that.


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## BelarusBulldog

With what you have described, if it was mine, this is what I would do. Haul of the two fuel filters, disconnect the fuel line from the fuel tanks, ( drain the two tanks first ) and with compressed air, blow all the crap out of everything. I would even go as far as to remove the two tanks and really give them a good cleaning. Then I'd reinstall the tanks, hook up the fuel lines, and replace the two fuel filters. Add fresh fuel and bleed the whole system. But that's just me! Bye


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## BelarusBulldog

The lever in the dash is your fuel shut off on the pump, A lot of older diesels had this. Today they use electric solenoids to do the same thing. Your fuel drawing for your tractor is the same setup as my 562 Belarus. Simple and straight forward. Not sure on the valve position. On some radiators, the valve has to be screwed in to drain. Bye


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## bobinhouston

Thanks - I am trying to find out where to buy the filters. The units they connect to are labeled Bosch (086). 
I checked with one place online and they told me they didn't carry the filters but just for grins I asked them how much to rebuild the injection pump (should I need to). They said between $1000-1400. 
Changing fuel and blowing out lines/tanks sounds like good advice. Not sure if my mickey mouse Craftsman compressor is strong enough though.


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## cyrush

Fuel diagram looks about right 

With sufficient fuel in tank and petcocks full open fuel should be flowing fast. 

Lever in dash below steering is the engine stop control, one extreme of travel lets tractor run, other extreme should move a lever on pump to stop engine. Apx 1/2 way is an excess fuel start position. lever on pump should be up against a spring loaded stop.


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## cyrush

This may help, excess fuel and stop settingon injection pump.


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## bobinhouston

I am trying to find two fuel filters for my 484 and believe our local auto supply has the filters I need. Only problem is there is some conflicting information. If you are sitting in the tractor seat can someone tell me which side of the tractor contains the primary fuel filter and which side contains the secondary ? 

Sitting in the driver seat and looking down I have:

- On the right a WIX 33373 fuel filter. It does NOT have a drain plug. My manual says the primary fuel filter is on the right. Autoparts store is saying the WIX 33373 is the seconday.

- On the left is another filter WITH a drain plug. No writing on this one but auto parts says it calls for a WIX 33472 (with a drain plug) and it is the primary. My manual says the secondary fuel filter is on the left.

Basically what I am asking is which side of the tractor should have the primary filter and which side the secondary filter and which of the filters has a drain plug. Also......can you just put a filter with a drain plug on both sides. I'm wondering if my filters are on the wrong side.


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## bobinhouston

Well - according to the local tractor dealer the primary filter is the one coming straight to the filter it's second stop is at the secondary filter. Looking at it that way it is pretty obvious, 1st filter then 2nd. They also said they sometimes put the same filter on both sides (with drain plugs). So I'm off to the auto parts store to get 2 new filters. Anybody see a problem with doing that. Sorry for all the basic questions....I'm retired and worked with computers all my life, now I'm dealing with tractors and I'm not a mechanic.


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## Miaugi

My manual says primary on right side, secondary on left, but no mention of part numbers....sorry. :dazed:


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## Country Boy

I'd stick with the filters it calls for rather than trying to use two of the same one. The primary filter generally is a bit coarser to screen out the larger particles, whereas the secondary is for any fine particles that get past the primary. At least that's what we were taught in my diesel classes at the tech college.


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## bobinhouston

Thankyou all. My filters were backwards apparently. Anyway I got them at autoparts store and put Water separator first, then secondary fuel.. A little trash in filters and had to use a piece of pipe for leverage to get secondary off. It was ugly when it finally came off but new one went on fine and tractor started right up.
Thanks for your input. What a relief - now I can move on to oil change.


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## Miaugi

bobinhouston said:


> Thankyou all. My filters were backwards apparently. Anyway I got them at autoparts store and put Water separator first, then secondary fuel.. A little trash in filters and had to use a piece of pipe for leverage to get secondary off. It was ugly when it finally came off but new one went on fine and tractor started right up.
> Thanks for your input. What a relief - now I can move on to oil change.


Good news!!:headclap:


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## Country Boy

Glad to hear! Have fun with the new tractor!


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## BelarusBulldog

bobinhouston said:


> Well - according to the local tractor dealer the primary filter is the one coming straight to the filter it's second stop is at the secondary filter. Looking at it that way it is pretty obvious, 1st filter then 2nd. They also said they sometimes put the same filter on both sides (with drain plugs). So I'm off to the auto parts store to get 2 new filters. Anybody see a problem with doing that. Sorry for all the basic questions....I'm retired and worked with computers all my life, now I'm dealing with tractors and I'm not a mechanic.


As long as the both fit the holders and don't leak, they should be fine. Just remember, the 1st filter is there to filter out larger particles and won't plug as fast. The 2nd filter catches anything that gets past the first and filters our smaller particles being a lower micron filter. If you put the same two filters on, they only filter out the same! Bye


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## bobinhouston

Thanks.....I went to bed a happy boy...tractor started and I moved it out of the sun. I woke up this morning and thought ok, let's see what you can do big boy. Would not start. Battery shows 12.15 volts but no sound at the starter. I have heard you can have a battery with 12V and have a bad cell. Guess this is possible since this battery looks pretty old. I'll gladly replace it but right now I am heading out to see if I can jump it. Probably an electrical issue or wiring at best. Anyway, that is where I am today...Any divine guidance would be appreciated.


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## bobinhouston

Jump did not work - guess I'm I'm just venting. Have to trace wires to see where current stops. Lots of fresh electrical tape here - that's were I'll start.


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## Miaugi

I believe there is a clutch lockout and I assume you are depressing the clutch so you may have a look for that switch. Also if while you turn the key you could have someone tap on the starter with a hammer, sometimes the solenoid or starter stick....although there is usually an audible click heard but it couldn't hurt to try. Keep us posted!


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## bobinhouston

I have been pressing the clutch down and had someone tap the starter but no sound at all, not even a click. I thought if the solenoid was good I would at least hear a click but I heard no sound. I will look for the clutch lockout switch....not sure what to do if I find it though. I'm going to look at it this morning, make sure cables are clean and connections are tight. I read something where you can touch the two large bolts on the solenoid with a screwdriver and that should turn the starter if the solenoid is good. Not sure about that but I will try it. Screwdriver will have a plastic handle.
Thanks for the help !


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## bobinhouston

*found a parts catalog*

I noticed that there were some diagrams as attachments to some postings and looked for a parts catalog and found the one below where you can specify your tractor model and view your parts. Most of you probably knew this already but I thought I would share the info in case someone was looking for a part.
- Parts Catalog


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## cyrush

Batteries,???

Assuming battery off charge for awhile, then using a good quality digital multimeter you should get the following 
BATTERY FULLY CHARGED 12.8V, BATTERY DISCHARGED 12.5 V MAXIMUM VOLTAGE WHEN CHARGING WITH ALTERNATOR ON TRACTOR 14.2 VOLT
, .


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## bobinhouston

I get a 12.89v with my mulitimeter. Tracing the wires (most are not connected) I found one going to the solenoid that connects to the lights. That just sounds wierd but I did not change anything and it started the night before. Going to look at it further this evening.
Thanks


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## cyrush

SEE ATT 111 Make sure you choose correct diagram for your tractor build??????


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## bobinhouston

I finally called out a mobile mechanic and discovered my starter was burned inside and gears were warped. The key to start the tractor initially cranked the starter but never returned to normal position so it kept sending voltage to the starter. This is what I was told anyway. Rebuilt starter and a new key switch and it cranked right over.
Just have to change fluids and hopefully I'm ready to go. Thanks for the help !


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## cyrush

Glad to hear it is sorted!!!!


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## bobinhouston

*tranny fluid*

My transmission and hydraulics share the same fluid. I was going to drain and refill but was told by one of my neighbors that you need to make sure you bleed (let out the air) in the lines or you will wind up with NO hydraulic capability when done. Please excuse my ignorance but does anyone know the procedure for doing this ?


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## bobinhouston

Not sure if rebuilt starter is good. Started the tractor several times since the rebuild. Yesterday when I tried to start it hesitated the first time I turned key but turned key again and tractor started. I did a little work (about 30 minutes) and turned tractor off. (Engine is now warm). Decided to move tractor but all I got was a CLICK and it did not turn over. Tried several times and just get a CLICK. Called mobile mechanic and he is supposed to come back tomorrow. 
In any event, this morning a said let me try again. Starter turned over fine. 
Mechanic coming tomorrow and I believe starter is still the problem since it cranks sometimes and other times not. 
Any ideas .....suggestions ?


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## cyrush

Clicking is usually due to lack of battery voltage @ starter, BUT is there damage to teeth on starter ring gear on flywheel which is sometimes stoppin solenoid fully engaging pinion and as such is stopping solenoid engaging starter, ALSO on starter is an eccentric adjuster to set starter pinion engagement, Is it correctly set ????


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## bobinhouston

*flywheel and solenoid*

Thanks.................can you see the teeth on the flywheel if you take the starter out ?
Also is it a big job to replace the flywheel. ? I believe this starter has been rebuilt before. I've started it about 6-7 times now since it was recently rebuilt. 2 times I just got a click. One time when engine was cold and one time when it was hot.

Mechanic came out this morning:
Battery registers 12.6.....................when cranked it drops to 6-9 volts. 
He said alternator is not charging and starter sometimes does not mesh teeth properly with flywheel due to not enough voltage when cranked. So................crank it and sometimes it aligns starter/flywheel teeth correctly and sometimes not. 
Not being a mechanic myself I'm not sure about whether or not 6 volts is too low to turn starter fast enough.
Any idea if that all sounds correct ????


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## cyrush

If you remove starter you can inspect teeth on ring gear through the starter aperture, bar engine over by hand so you can inspect teeth all way around. Mark staring point in chalk so you know when you have turnesd it all way over, To remove flywheel to replace a worn ring gear means splitting tractor as for doing the clutch.

As its a 3cyl engine 3 points on ring gear will show more wear than rest, which is where it naturally stops each time !!

@ 12.6 volts battery is well discharged (12.5 v is flat) fully charged should be 12.8volts and under cranking will drop to about 9.8 to 10 volts. 6 volts is way too low.

Maybe a bad battery or bad connections in battery (+) & (-) lines causing high resistance and heat and loss of voltage @ starter.


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## bobinhouston

Thankyou - In reference to your last sentence:

"Maybe a bad battery or bad connections in battery (+) & (-) lines causing high resistance and heat and loss of voltage @ starter. "

= = = = =
Is the high resistance and heat a factor once the tractor is running or just a concern when starting ? ? ? ? ?

Reason I ask is after only working for 30 minutes or so the engine compartment seemed very warm. Of course it was 100+ degrees outside but now I'm wondering if the alternator not charging could have contributed to the heat and possibly cause further damage.
= = = = = 

Mechanic told me if I did not want to replace alternator I could just jump the tractor when I want to use it or keep a trickle charge on the battery. Since I don't use the tractor every day this actually might be an alternative that while I don't love it could live with.


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## cyrush

Is the high resistance and heat a factor once the tractor is running or just a concern when starting ? ? ? ? ?

only when actually starting.!!!

Tractor is built to work o/k in 100deg heat, alternator failing will have nothing to do with it.

Trickle charge would do but if battery is overcharged it will "Gas" and dry out. You really need one of the latest "Intelligent ghargers" to keep system protected.


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## bobinhouston

Thanks again - 
I have an in expensive Black & Decker smart charger that says it will stop charging when the battery is full. 
Really appreciate and value your comments.


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## bobinhouston

Hello All,
thanks for all you help. I realized the 484 was too much for my 2 1/2 acres and too large to get thru some of the trees so I sold it a few days ago. Both the seller (me) and the buyer walked away happy. He got a good deal and now I am off to look for a smaller tractor with a front loader. Not sure what kind, perhaps a Kubota or John Deere but definitly something a lot smaller and newer.
Thanks again for all the help !


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