# PTO Clutch Noises?



## film495

Ariens S-12

Never had a tractor before, so I'm learning as I go. I did notice the clutch for the front PTO when I disengage it makes sort of a tinging noise, like 2 spinning metal disks slightly touching one another. I think the noise is there the whole time just a little queter, but I noticed it being associated to the PTO. If I engage disengage the PTO I can generate the noise from that action. I also recently noticed another noise, sort of a deep growling hum that sort of comes and goes, I can make it go away playing with the trottle a little. I thought it was a getting the machine warmed up issue, but I also noticed this additional noise can be controlled by engaging the front PTO. The growling noise and tinging noise are both only present with the PTO disengaged. I thought someone with more knowledge of how the clutch works and what's a normal noise and what's not could point me in the right direction.


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## Country Boy

Sounds like the bearing on the PTO clutch may be getting bad. Officially, the bearing is part of the clutch assembly and cannot be replaced. Unofficially, you can sometimes grind out the dimples on the clutch housing and press the bearing out and press a new one in. Doing so is much cheaper than a clutch for that tractor. IIRC, they are in the $300-400 range if they are still available.

Does the tinging noise continue the entire time the clutch is disengaged, or just immediately after disengaging it? There is a brake band that the one clutch plate will snap against when the clutch is turned off and that will make a metal-on-metal sound until he pulley stops. Try going to the Ariens website under "Support" and get a service manual for that tractor. You will need the model # and serial # in order to get one. If you can't find one, try 931004 and make up a serial number (like 000101). It should have a section on how to adjust the clutch brake band and on servicing the clutch. They don't offer the pieces and parts of the clutch separately anymore, you just have to buy an entire clutch assembly. As I said before, either you or a machine shop could replace the bearing as long as the electromagnetic coil in the clutch is still in good shape. Sometimes when the bearing gets bad, it runs hot and melts the electromagnet's covering, eventually causing the wires to fuse and short out. I'd get it fixed sooner rather than later for that very reason.


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## film495

I get a groaning sound when I start the machine that goes away in a minute or so that I chased to the PTO clutch. Also, the tingy noise continues after the PTO stops spinning, but doesn't continue for more than a few minutes. Honestly the tingy noise was only apparent to me when I was running the machine and trying hard to listed to what everything sounded like to get a baseline and see if I could find any noises that were not supposed to be there. I also noticed sometimes the PTO seems to not always stop consistently, it will sometimes seem to take a long time to eventually stop spinning, most times it stops in a few seconds, but sometimes will keep going for 10 seconds or more. I've got the machine ready to blow snow, and it's going to start coming down here soon on a regular basis, I'm sort of afraid to take the machine apart this time of year - because I could need the machine any day now. I'll see if I can get that service manual, I have a part diagram, but it doesn't seem to show the inner working parts of the clutch.


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## Country Boy

They may not show much of the clutch because its no longer available as separate parts. They are now sold as a complete unit only.


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## film495

now that snowblowing is over for the season, I'm going to take this apart and see what I can find out. I was unable to find a repair manual for the 931001, but I did find one for the slightly later 931004-931034 and it shows the diagram and has a nice explanation of how to check and assemble/disassemble the PTO clutch. how good I'll be at understanding and following it is yet to be seen. It does not list a part # for the clutch assembly in the manual. I think I found a replacement on Amazon for around 100$, but not sure how to know if it is for sure the correct assembly.


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## film495

model 931004 clutch part # 53114100
model 931001 clutch part # 53102300

trying to figure out if the S-12 clutch is interchangable with the GT series clutch as shown above. maybe I can find one on ebay, a new OEM part seems a bit out of my range.


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## jhngardner367

Film 495, 
I just found the complete clutch assy from jackass small engines for model 931004. WOW!! $467.25 +s&h !
Have you tried adjusting the clutch ? There should be 4 studs,with springs,that hold the unit together. Measure the distance between the cover plate,and the base plate,at each stud,and if it's more than 1/32 difference,turn the nut,on each,until it is even all the way around.DON'T turn the nut more than 1/4 turn,at a time .
I usually turn the one with the largest difference,first,and then run it to see if it has fixed the problem.


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## film495

not yet, I'll be taking a wack at it soon though. these are very good tips - thank you

I found this exploded parts list, which looks different to me than the one for the 931004 clutch from the GT Series. No explanation of how to set or anything like that, but with input from here and the 004 manual I think I basically get it. I pulled the muffler off so I could get at the thing, and now I'm trying to figure out where these springs are? I found the 4 mounting bolts, and I think I see the 4 spots on the clutch that are supposed to be the measuring points. It seems like the clutch is not quite square to the clutch actually continues to touch at one point when it rotates, and it continues to rotate now that I have the belts pulled of and there isn't any tension holding it. 

I'm not sure I have the parts that are adjustable. I don't see the parts 27, 13, 16 - or the front part of the clutch where the sheave has flanges with the bolt holes. It just looks like those flanges are not there, and the back part of the clutch is bolted directly onto the motor, and the bolt and parts that hold the clutch in the center all look like they are there, but I'm not seeing how it is adjustable. I gotta take another look at this thing.


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## film495

well, it looks like the part of the clutch where the adjustment is made was removed before I owned this. I could tell where the contact point was when the clutch was off, making quite a racket, and since I couldn't figure out quite how to keep the engine from spinning when I tried to loosed the bolt in the center to remove the clutch, I cut to the chase and simply tried to bend the plate out where it was always in contact. This seemed to work a little, and now it doesn't make quite such a racket, so if I want to move gravel or something else with the tractor it won't be quite so worrisome. I tried to put a piece of rope in the cylinder so the piston would push against the head, but I must not have done it right.

that gives me until winter, when I'll have to snowblow, to either fix this right, replace the clutch altogether, or find a nice backup machine with a snowblower before next winter.

Coincidentally, I pick up a Case 220 this tuesday. It has a deck but no blower, but Rome wasn't built in a day.


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## jhngardner367

Yeah,I know what you're going through.
I've run into several repair jobs that the owner rigged,and it finally gave out completely. Then they ask "WHY did it cost so much ?"
Good luck,on your machine.


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## film495

I'll have to take a picture of it. It is amazing it lasted all winter with me using it, and who knows how long before that. 

Someone must have an aftermarket clutch, or maybe I can find one on ebay.

I also wonder if the clutch that's on there is some aftermarket part. If I could get the thing off possibly I could find some identification numbers etc and just order another one of what's there.


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## film495

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371045575425?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

found one on ebay - bough it, right part number, bolts look a little different from what I have, but match the manual.


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## film495

so what do you think happens when I get this clutch, and/or what should I do.

1. I just leave it the way it is currently and run it until it fails and then swap the new one in.

2. Pull the old one and put the new one in, and keep the old one for parts.

3. Pick the best parts from the current and new one, and mix match a best one.

4. some combination there of, and try to figure out how to gank the bearing out of the old one, and replace it, so I have an idea of how to replace the PTO bearing when the one I put in with the replacement clutch goes.

5. find out that the past owner, modified the way the clutch should mount and realize what I ordered won't fit. look up the part number off what's there now and end up ordering another one ... wouldn't that be fun.


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