# 66 Ford 4500 Backhoe loader, dormant for 10 plus years, I need a game plan.



## TobysDad79 (Jun 21, 2013)

I apologize for not being a common frequenter of this forum, because you guys are awesome, you truly are, but I'm always so busy.

but here's the deal forum. My stepfather has a Ford 1966 4500 backhoe loader, machine is old, rusty and has sat for ten plus years due to a major power steering catastrophic failure. (years prior to the final failure, the shaft on the power steering cylinder broke off of it's pivot pin, the one attached to the front of the frame, and he kept driving and using it smashing the end of the shaft into the busted head of the eye) eventually the pump completely quit altogether. 

He began work on the machine in May of 2002, he took the front shroud and radiator off and disassembled some of the hydraulic lines connecting to the hydraulic pump. (I was 14 at the time, and more concerned about playing pokemon rather than which way tightened or loosened a bolt)

shortly after he began the work, he severely torn a rotor cuff resulting in his MIA from ANY TYPE of activity for 7 months. after he began to recover, my mom, (his wife) and him split up and he hasn't touched the backhoe since.

when the machine ran, it leaked a ton of hydraulic oil, but I am extremely good friends with the son of an owner of a local store that sells hydraulic parts (upson maybach) so I'm not too worried about replacing those lines that are undoubtedly way worse now than they were 12 years ago. 

they have since reconciled, and now he wants me to fix his machine.

I'll shorten this up, apologies for sounding like I think you guys are my family therapists.

Hydraulic pump left open and exposed, water has entered at some point, frozen and cracked the housing; needs new hydraulic pump.

damage to power steering unit is substantial, the eye that broke off the end of the shaft is very damaged after years of being struck with the shaft. the eye broken off is deformed and needs to be torched off along with the bolt it is attached to, ( I have no problem cutting parts of with a torch, but cutting bolts out of thread is another thing)

this machine may sound like a total basketcase, but it's a workhorse. a year and a half prior to the power steering failure, he paid almost 9 grand for a local shop to pick up the backhoe, and install a brand new motor in it. the motor I think has like 250 hours???

also, about 6 years prior to the failure, he had the tractor split, replaced the Torque converter, and had some transmission work done. 

So I think it's worth him putting some money into it if I do the labor. I need a game plan though, I've never worked on something this old that's sat for so long. 

I think my first goals and order of business is to replace the pumps, and reassemble the machine, just so i can start it, drive it out of the field that it's in and park it near the shop where i can work on it on level ground, near a compressor, and equipment. any suggestions on where to start??


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## TobysDad79 (Jun 21, 2013)

Also, forgot to mention, intake manifold hose was left uncovered, I can see what look like they might be mud hornet nest up inside the hose, I plan on pulling the hose off and cleaning, should I also just remove the manifold?? 

I have picture of the machine if that would help.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Hello TobysDad79, sounds like you have a big old project there! A few pictures would be great so that the guys here can see what you are dealing with. I'd take the intake manifold off I suspected that a colony of mud wasps had lived there. Can it be towed to where you need to work on it? Otherwise you will need to get the hydraulics repaired to the point that you won't dump all the oil when you start it up. Get yourself a good set of manuals and when doing the restoration, take a lot of reference pictures so you can remember how things were before you took it apart.
Check all the oils and the tires and the fuel and the battery. If the intake hose was off of the manifold, you can suspect that there maybe rust in one or more cylinders. Is this a diesel?


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## harry16 (Dec 8, 2011)

Hi Tobysdad79,

It's always good to see new people on the forum. Welcome aboard.

Did you have a bucket over the exhaust pipe to keep rainwater out during the time the tractor was dormant? 

The engine should be your first priority. Cost to completely rebuild the engine will exceed $3K. The tractor's not worth putting that kind of money in it, considering all the other problems you have. 

First step - change the engine oil & filter. Look for water contamination in the drained oil. 

The next thing I would check is to see if the engine will turn over. The pistons may be seized in the cylinders with rust. Try cranking it (make sure there's no wasps nests in the intake manifold first). Or, if you can get a socket on the crankshaft pulley nut see if it will move. If you can get it to turn over, crank it enough to get some oil pressure before starting. Probably need a shot of ether to get it going.

Diesels are high compression engines. Your compression is undoubtedly low. You can pull the injectors and put a couple tablespoons of ATF (automatic transmission fluid) in each cylinder and let it soak for a few days.


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## TobysDad79 (Jun 21, 2013)

pogobill said:


> Hello TobysDad79, sounds like you have a big old project there! A few pictures would be great so that the guys here can see what you are dealing with. I'd take the intake manifold off I suspected that a colony of mud wasps had lived there. Can it be towed to where you need to work on it? Otherwise you will need to get the hydraulics repaired to the point that you won't dump all the oil when you start it up. Get yourself a good set of manuals and when doing the restoration, take a lot of reference pictures so you can remember how things were before you took it apart.
> Check all the oils and the tires and the fuel and the battery. If the intake hose was off of the manifold, you can suspect that there maybe rust in one or more cylinders. Is this a diesel?


oh it's gonna be a riot! I have pictures of the damaged power steering component and a perfect shot of what it's supposed to look like. kinda like a reverse before and after lol.

realistically, it can't be towed. I mean i just don't think it'd be cost efficient. this thing was the biggest thing in our families possession by ten thousand pounds, it's currently 4 inches deep in dirt after sitting and settling for so long. one of the steer tires came off the rim, and needs to be replaced, plus all the hydraulics (loader, hoe) were put down to try to keep pressure of the hydraulic system and it from bleeding out. they themselves are somewhat in the dirt. if we were to have it towed out front it'd be quite a bit i suspect. alot more work than just replacing those components, firing it up and moving it under it's own power.


This is what the power steer cylinder supposed to look like,
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a...artsthursday009small_zpsbb7e2499.jpg~original

and this is what it looks like;
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a161/N0_C0de_79/backhoecylinder_zps3c3dafa5.jpg


my step dad has a complete set of manuals for it I'm waiting for him to find it.

it is a diesel (333 cubic inch) and I'm positive that battery is completely toast lol.

This is the stamp on the side of the engine, http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a...loads/1228131450_zpsfeb4d00e.jpg?t=1388344902

the engine, after sitting outside in the middle of our field, still has the blue enamel on it, 

This is the the hydraulic pump, obviously wide open, enduring years of precipitation and freezing water.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a...oads/1228131638a_zpsa9a8f64a.jpg?t=1388345771

I'm thinking once i replace the pumps, I'm going to supply an outside source of fuel, directly to the pump, because I have no idea whats at the bottom of that tank, tank doesn't look corroded, but the idea of 12 year old diesel worries me. 

so basically, before I do anything, I should do an oil change on the motor and check the gear oil in the tranny, any chance I'd be able to see if the tops of the valves or a cylinder were rusted without taking the manifold apart? if so obviously, the intelligent way t see if it turns over is to go at the crank pulley with a pipe wrench or something, slowly just to see if the motor's still loose.


I have no idea how to label uploaded images, so I'm also including links to my photobucket account under the corresponding description.


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## TobysDad79 (Jun 21, 2013)

harry16 said:


> Hi Tobysdad79,
> 
> It's always good to see new people on the forum. Welcome aboard.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your tips Harry16, the stack has a cap on it, and the exhaust pipe appears to be mostly intact, save for a small hole beneath the muffler.

this motor is just about brand new, it had less than 250 hours on it when the power steering pump blew, do you think if there could be enough damage from sitting that it'd need a rebuild? I'll opt to not work on it if so lol.

I know ether will dry out the cylinder, I've always used Liquid Wrench or Lithium spray into the intake to help tired diesels start as it provides a secondary lubrication within the cylinder. I've only ether fired on motors that are really really dead, and NEED it. would it be wise to ether fire a motor that hasn't run in 12 years?


this is all of course all just speculation, I haven't really dove into this machine yet.


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## TobysDad79 (Jun 21, 2013)

I could honestly, go out there, find out the pistons are totally seized into the walls of the cylinder, and I'll just say scrap.

my interest in this machine is the new motor in it and the tranny work done to it. compared to those things, a hydro pump and power steer cylinder and lines are a piece of cake lol


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## TobysDad79 (Jun 21, 2013)

I briefly took a pipe wrench out back to see if i could get a bite on the crank pulley, no go, too cramped, I don't feel exactly comfortable about using the shaft between the rank and the hydraulic pump as leverage. but I did manage to take some more pictures.

I'm probably gonna take the radiator fan off to more easily access the crank pulley when i'm more prepared, or just use the u-joint on the pulley if it won't damage it.

2nd pic from the bottom, the piston on the left side for the front loader bucket, how bad is that, can it be cleaned and still seal fluid?


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## Ed_F (Jun 18, 2013)

If the engine won't turn, pull the injectors and fill the cylinders with ATF. If you have a portable air tank try to blow the cylinders out before putting ATF in. Allow ATF to soak for a week or more.

The rusted piston rod will have pitting associated with the rust. The seal will definitely leak to some degree, depending upon the depth of the pits. 

Good luck.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Ed_F has some good advise. That cylinder ram is going to have to be re-chromed / cylinder rebuilt. 
Too bad you didn't have a buddy with a rubber tired hoe that could come over, lift up the bucket and hoe on your rig and pull it out for you. Just need some heavy chain to tie your bucket and hoe up. I had a guy come over and pull a 20 foot seacan out of the dirt and move it for me with his rubber tired hoe. They are powerful rigs! 
Is there a nut on the crankshaft pulley that you could get a socket on and a breaker bar and see if you could turn the engine!


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## Viper (Nov 28, 2012)

I have a 4500 without the backhoe, when I acquired it the machine was at a scrap yard with enough briars on it to have burned it to the ground. One front tire was missing and one rear tire they had started cutting it off with a torch. There was no hood and the transmission and engine was stuck, now I have a fresh engine rebuild and replaced the transmission. I was looking at how useful it was going to be in my hay work that I do. I just don't like seeing such a useful machine just sitting there, I think your engine is going to be fine and the boom cylinder can be buffed and used with a new seal kit for awhile but it will leak just a bit. If I was closer to you I would love to help you get it going they are some great machines


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