# Trying to confirm this tractor model - and have a few questions.



## hd883chopper (Nov 12, 2018)

Good Evening Folks,

Got another tractor and was hoping to positively identify it before ordering a manual. It's the 3 cyl diesel so it must be the Perkins. The seller indicated that its a MF 245 but wanted to be sure since he wasn't the owner and only doing the selling. So what do ya'll think? Mid 70's MF 245?

Also, I have a glow plug question. My old IH 364 had glow plugs right underneath the injectors and had wires connecting each glow plug which eventually led to a button on the dash. Hold the button and the warming action begins. This sounds crazy but I don't see the glow plugs. There not underneath the injectors like my old tractor. I'm a little confused on this.... Shouldn't I clearly be able to see the glow plugs around the injector ports?

Thanks in advance for any info provided!
hd


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Howdy HD,
Your tractor probably has a "thermostart" which is a heater/fire starter installed in the intake manifold. You hold the key in the "heat" position or push a button. The thermostart heats up and injects/ignites diesel into the intake manifold for cold weather starting.


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## hd883chopper (Nov 12, 2018)

That’s interesting. Thanks BigT. I’m always learning new things about these old tractors! I always thought all tractors had glow plugs for starting. Goes to show what I know - haha. Thx again. 

you wouldn’t happen to know if the pics tell you if this is definitely a MF 245 would you?


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## HarveyW (Sep 15, 2014)

Looks like a 245, but I cannot confirm.









Below are a couple of U-Tube videos that illustrate how a thermostart works:


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## hd883chopper (Nov 12, 2018)

Thanks Harvey. I’ll check these vids out. Not having glow plugs is new to me. Thx!


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## HarveyW (Sep 15, 2014)

MF 245 serial numbers taken from tractordata.com 
*245 Serial Numbers:*
Location: Below instrument panel
1974: 9A202190
1975: 9A207681
1976: 9A232539
1977: 9A254045
1978: 9A276935
1979: 9A296946
1980: 9A326169
1981: 9A339343
1982: 9A350584
1983: 9A354679


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

Only the 245 and the 230 used that type steering cylinder After the fiasco of the "upgraded" steering box of the 235 the went to the hydrostatic steering on those two models. Unfortunately the serial number only serves to tell you what year the tractor was built they cannot tell you the model. The 245 and 230 are very similar the only basic difference was the horsepower rating the 230 @ 38 and the 245 @ 45 Try looking on www.tractordata.com for the differences also www.agcopartsbooks.com may also help. Also noticed the loader is a 236 not the usual 232 for those tractors. Even with the front mounted pump. Still quick to mount and remove but the pump takes a little longer to remove and replace Now as for starting Perkins seems to have never used glow plugs in the Massey engines. Most of the three cylinders once broke in and not worn out will usually start down to or just below freezing with out any assist. If the Intake manifold has a large hole (takes about an inch wrench) a thermostart may be able to be added. Massey also used block heaters for starting usually they replace a core (freeze) plug in the block. The only issue is you need to be reasonably close to electric. They are also better for the engine as it puts some heat in the engine and starts the warm up faster. If all else fails and you are miles from home a very small sniff of starting fluid will get her running. If the cover is off the air cleaner it is even handy to give it a sniff, but just a sniff too much may give things nobody wants. One more before I go www.agcopubs.com will get you all the manuals for the tractor and loader, a little querky to use but I find they are reasonably priced Usually cheaper than those copies you can buy elsewhere. Just one word of advise you will find two service manuals listed. The only difference is price and the expensive one includes the binder cover. That is the only difference. Pardon my runon but I hope this helps. Need more just ask.


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## hd883chopper (Nov 12, 2018)

Busted Tractor said:


> Only the 245 and the 230 used that type steering cylinder After the fiasco of the "upgraded" steering box of the 235 the went to the hydrostatic steering on those two models...


Busted Tractor, thank you very much for taking the time to draft all that out. Extremely helpful!!

Question - you mention the loader being a 236 instead of the usual 232. Is the 236 larger allowing more carry capacity? Wondering what the diff is. Also, do you think that loader is a MF product that was original? I’ve seen loaders added to tractors and it’s kinda obvious but this sort of looks like it was part of the original deal. Thoughts ?

Question - My old International had a foot throttle and a dash throttle. This MF only has a dash throttle. Was thinking about trying to rig up a foot throttle to the linkage so my hands aren’t so busy getting rpm’s up and down. 
Any advice on this?

Thanks again!
Hd.


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

The 232 Loader was built for smaller tractors more than the 236 was. The 236 would mount on tractors up to the MF 275 (67HP) where the 245 was (I believe)was the largest tractor the 232 was supposed to be mounted on. The 236 was also Masseys first quick attach loader. Yes there is a difference in lifting ability. But there were offered two different lift cylinder sizes mainly due to the different pumps that could be used. The 2" cylinders were used for pumps especially the scotch yoke pump and smaller gear pumps usually rated for 10 gpm or less and 2 1/2 cylinders for pumps over 10 gpm The quickest was to tell a 236 and 232 is to look at the rear mount. The 236 used a wedge lock in the rear "pocket" while the 232 used a pin that went thru the upright and the side of the pocket. Front mounts were similar or could have even been the same. As far as over all dimensions I have never measured the differences although I believe the 236 would be longer so it would fit the bigger tractor. But remember the farther the bucket is from the front wheels the more weight is transferred from the rear of the tractor when a load is lifted. Also tractors as the 135 with the swept back axle that used radius rods tended to be weaker. Yes the 236 was an original product made by soo sweep rake company exclusively for Massey. Soo has closed its doors. When the first came out I used to mount them on a lot of tractors often using what ever the existing hydraulic system was on the tractor. I don't ever remember adding a PTO or front mounted pump. 
As for a foot throttle if you have any salvage yards that specialize in MF industrial tractors you might be able to find parts to put one on, I did some searching on the net and found some kits made in India that are supposed to fit. I believe all the original parts are No Longer Available. If you go at www.agcopartsbooks.com and look up the 245 throttle they do list a foot throttle you may get an idea of how Massey made the and be able to make one.


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## hd883chopper (Nov 12, 2018)

Busted Tractor said:


> The 232 Loader was built for smaller tractors more than the 236 was....


Thank you for that. Man, you're up to speed on these of Massey's eh - lol. All this is big help.

Ok, one more burning question. Locking differential. 
My old International had foot pedal, like a heel kicker on the right side that when pressed down with your heel, would engage the diff lock and send power to both wheels. It helped when plowing especially. When one tire would start to slip, I'd heel kick that lever and I'd move along with plenty of traction.

On this MF245, I can't find anything like that. When I make a sharp turn in the yard, I don't tear up the ground (too bad) so I feel confident that power is only hitting one wheel. Which is ok under normal circumstances but having the option would be nice when the terrain is messy. Now, on the other hand I noticed something the other day. I was lifting a rather heavy load w/ the FEL and ran the rpm's up a good bit to get moving and both tires churned the ground up pretty good. So then I was wondering if its possible there's no diff lock BUT, one could tach it up under a load and get power to both in that manner. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance... again!!


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

Differential lock was usually offered as an option on Massey tractor. If the tractor is equipped with it as with your IH it would be at your right heel. Otherwise it was just a plain open differential. Yep I again will refer you the www.agcopartsbooks.com where you can check how the parts were assembled and what was available when the tractor was built. If you didn't get an operator manual with the unit you can go at www.agcopubs.com and get the original operators manual, parts manual and service manual for the loader and tractor, at least reasonable prices, I think, . Just be aware the service manual appears twice with a big price difference the expensive one includes a binder otherwise both are the same. 
Massey back when these tractors were built were offered in a basically stripped version or a fully equipped version, or in between. Usually a stripped version had a 3 speed trans, double stage clutch (live PTO) only the scotch yoke pump, clamshell fenders, bucket seat, etc. A loaded version might include 4 speed or multi power trans, single disc clutch with independent PTO, auxiliary hydraulic pump, auxiliary control valves, flat top fenders, float ride seat, power shift wheels (PAVT), etc. Both had gas or diesel engine, hydrostatic steering, three point hitch, etc. Of course Massey even would specially equip some if desired. Many of the industrial tractors were ag models equipped with heavier front axles and may or may not have a "hard nose" and of course painted yellow, with a different model designation. The basic design of these tractors has evolved from the TO 35 I don't know for sure but I would expect the small tractors built today by Massey are still the same design, sadly they are not assembled in the USA anymore. and have lost the Perkins power. 
As for the knowledge, you are very welcome. Want more just ask, if I know I'll pass it on.
Have a great day, and enjoy that Massey.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

It may be that differential lock was optional back when your 245 was built, and the original purchaser did not choose to have it. Don't know.

Back in the day before diff lock, while plowing, we used to brake the wheel that was spinning and make the other wheel pull its share of the load. Plus check the plows to be sure they weren't running too deep. It was routine practice, and not much time lost.


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## hd883chopper (Nov 12, 2018)

Busted Tractor said:


> Differential lock was usually offered as an option on Massey tractor. If the tractor is equipped with it as with your IH it would be at your right heel.


Thanks man, as usual great advice and it all makes sense. I so wish this thing had a diff lock. I got stuck on my property twice today. That never happened with the other tractor. Thanks again!!

hd


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## hd883chopper (Nov 12, 2018)

BigT said:


> It may be that differential lock was optional back when your 245 was built, and the original purchaser did not choose to have it. Don't know.
> 
> Back in the day before diff lock, while plowing, we used to brake the wheel that was spinning and make the other wheel pull its share of the load. Plus check the plows to be sure they weren't running too deep. It was routine practice, and not much time lost.


That's good advice and yep I was using the brake in the same manner and it does help. Can't beat a true diff lock though - lol. Thank you!


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