# John Deere 2210 rear PTO inop



## Mike 2210 (Jun 25, 2018)

I just bought the tractor and knew of this problem. It has 700 hrs, 62" belly mower, box blade, 210 loader, rake, and aerator. I paid $4500.

With the tractor off I can turn the rear pto by hand and can't feel that it's connected to anything inside. It turns easily no matter where the selector is (all 3 positions) and nothing about the rear pto shaft changes with the motor running and the dash switch pulled or not.

The mid pto works normally and cannot be turned by hand with the tractor off and the selector on mid or both. It turns easily by hand when only rear pto is selected.

Could the solenoid cause this? I'm afraid I have a internal breakage in the gears/linkage between the motor and rear pto shaft.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Read this thread: https://www.tractorforum.com/threads/jd-2210-pto-solenoid-failure.34656/#post-241092


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

You may have a broken rear PTO shaft (or possibly more serious damage). Check out this subject on the internet. It appears that the JD 2210 has a light duty rear PTO system, that is very costly to repair ($3K - $4K).


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## Mike 2210 (Jun 25, 2018)

I've read the solenoid thread and another 2210 pto thread on a different forum but I haven't found the answer to my question/s.

Do the mid and rear pto's operate the same way? Because the mid pto has a positive connection to the drivetrain that is connected by the lever and my rear pto is unaffected by the lever. Does the solenoid have to be operational to connect the drivetrain to the pto shaft? What does the lever do? What does the solenoid do?

There's no need to check the solenoid if there is supposed to be a positive connection (like the mid pto) that gets connected or disconnected when the lever is moved.

Just looking for someone that knows how it operates.


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I believe I found my answer. I went back and carefully read the solenoid thread. This part of the thread:

Yes, you are correct. It is the same, a lever next to the seat. I already tried moving it front to back and middle but it made no difference. I did this to make sure the PTO wasn't somehow locked up. I could rotate the PTO shafts if that lever was not engaged.

The last sentence indicates that he could not rotate the shafts when that particular pto was engaged. My rear pto can be rotated no matter if it's engaged or dis-engaged. I might be buying a tow behind self powered rotary cutter.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

If the electric clutch is activating and then putting the mid-pto in and out of gear, but the selector does nothing, not even disengage the mid-pto, the problem is in the linkage, the shift fork, or the engagement collar.

If the works is locked up, and the front pto operates all the time, no matter what, but if it free wheels when the tractor is shut off and the hydraulic pressure drops, it is the hydraulic valve that is stuck or the solenoid failed. Usually it is the valve that is stuck.

If the mid-pto shifts to neutral when the mechanical shift is switched, the problem is likely with the rear pto assembly. 

The rear pto is easily serviced and rock simple. Refer to the John Deere parts catalog for a view of the components and assembly. If you do this repair yourself and save a couple thousand, get a copy of DTAC SOLUTION 70105 from the service department.


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## Mike 2210 (Jun 25, 2018)

The mid pto functions properly. The rear never turns and when the engine is running or not, no matter the position of the pto selector lever, no matter if the dash switch is pulled out or not, the rear pto never turns unless I turn it by hand and I can turn it by hand under every scenario described above. 

I just got in from verifying the solenoid is good. I pulled it out and could push the plunger in. I then turned the key on and pulled the dash switch, the plunger pulled in. Looks like I have the mechanical problem. Likely broken outer housing plate because a long pto shaft was used and raised????

I'm curious, if it's rock simple (not doubting you) why does the dealer charge so much labor time? I read 20 hrs somewhere.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Cost of operation. A skilled technician with salary and benefits is around $120,000 a year, training necessary to keep qualified staff is another minimum of $18,000 a year each, shop costs are in the millions over 20 years, insurance is astronomical, and the list goes on and on. 

I just had the fuel injection pump on a diesel Gator rebuilt, over $4,000 and three weeks in the dealer's shop. Could have bought a rebuilt pump and done it myself for around $1,200. Why not do it myself? My time is better spent farming and making much more income for the equivalent expenditure of my resource, and the full bill from the dealer is a tax deductible expense.

I am their typical customer.

Keep in mind that to pop the rear of the transmission/pto access requires the tractor be squeaky clean and dry to prevent internal contamination, the fluid drained and put in EPA approved storage for recycling/disposal, work space is used, disassembly takes place, catalog the parts and inspect for wear/damage, tractor sets in the income generating workspace while work is performed by the skilled tech and it sets there while the parts are ordered from John Deere (maybe a week or more), then the reassembly process takes place, gasket surfaces cleaned and resealed, filters identified and installed, hydraulic oil installed, then a run in test period performed. If the technician breaks a tool, or requires a specialized tool, that ordering process takes place, and the time for that is also billed. Then you have the usual screw ups from the parts distribution center where some bit or another is sent incorrectly, or is on back order, and the time to unravel that is in the allowance.

A reasonably skilled owner has none of the "overhead" of the dealer shop, can follow directions in a relatively inexpensive repair manual, and does not see the delay in ordering and receiving parts as anything other than an aggravation. Around $150 worth of tools are all that is required by the owner for this job (much less if Harbor Freight tools are used). Washing and drying the tractor may take four hours and specialized washing and waste handling equipment required by the dealer are not needed, and not seen as a cost. Oil draining is in a bucket that is dropped off at recycle center for free, and so on. No run in test, it works and off you go!

Actually much of the same cost and burden of overhead elements are found in your local power equipment dealer's service facility and staff. Only there the mechanics/technicians generally have much smaller inventories of tools that may add up to $15,000, versus the tractor tech with several times that investment in specialized tools. The shop owns a minimum of $100,000 in air compressors, handling systems, and specialty tools. 

The days of Joe's Garage are long gone. But a reasonably competent individual can become Joe rather inexpensively.

Hope this helps with the picture of dealer allowances.


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## Mike 2210 (Jun 25, 2018)

I believe I confused "rock simple" with short repair time. We're on the same page now. I completely understand simple tasks but having many of them leading to a 20 hr repair. Of course simple can take a long time just like some difficult tasks can be done very quickly. I'm well aware of overhead and training as well. I'm a HVAC contractor. We get a reputation (the industry) of being rip off artists because we profit (gross profit) $1000 per hr during installations. That $3000-$8000 gross profit per job goes to buying, maintaining, and keeping stocked service vans, each of which (as it's rolling down the streets) is about $100,000 considering all the tools and equipment we carry. Continuing education, insurance, salaries, permit fees and the expense of actually walking into some backwoods municipalities (who don't have online application) to pull permits, and then if anything is left over, the owner, me , get's to take a little $ home.

So, it's a simple repair but takes a long time. I may get the manual and tackle it myself. As I've aged I'm learning to delegate more (in my business) which has freed up some of my time. I enjoy working on stuff like this. I'm rebuilding a '80 Corvette right now. I bought it with a rebuilt engine but it was set up for a blower. I don't want or need a blower so I pressed the pins out and replaced the pistons with higher compression type. I also replaced the cam, heads, intake, etc. I did all the teardown/re-assembly alone including engine/trans removal/re-installation.

I can probably handle a rock simple pto. I'll let y'all know what I find.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

The 20 hour estimate is if the internal clutches or the main shaft to the PTO shift are at fault. The usual cause of rear PTO only failure is the "skinny" inside spline end of the rear PTO shaft breaks in the drive gear. All reachable from the rear.


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