# Ford 4000 diesel starting procedure



## Ed Williams

What is a recommended cold starting procedure for a Ford 4000 diesel. Throttle position? Cranking time? Etc. I have heard numerous opinions, including lighting a sponge soaked in diesel fuel and holding at the intake entrance. That is scary. There has to be a better way.


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## thepumpguysc

Of course theres a better way..
Throttle should be at 1/2 to full throttle..
Crank time should be no more than 8-10 sec. bursts & let the starter "rest" for the same, if not more..{30 sec.}
IF your having THAT MUCH trouble starting it, why not get the pump & injectors checked out or do a compression test.??
It sounds as if u have a fuel "bleed-back" problem.. it could be a weak supply pump, dirty filters, a loose connection in a line somewhere sucking air.?? 
Have u TRIED ANYTHING to fix it.??


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## Ed Williams

I am just getting started. This my first diesel and I am trying to gather as much information as I can to maintain it properly. I followed my father-in-laws advice, a diesel trator owner for 62 yrs, that the fuel system is critical. I removed the tank and thoroughly cleaned it, replaced the shutoff valve and screen, the old one was missing the stop clip so needed replaced anyway, I installeda new fuel filter and bled the air from the system. The engine starts after about 15-20 seconds of cranking.I don' know if this is okay or not at 80 deg. If I plug in the block heater, it starts in 8-10 seconds. What will happen at 0 deg? I have gathered a lot of confusing information, to me at least. Some say this is normal, some say not. The Owners Manual says to use 30-40 second cranks, that short cranks will damage the starter. That does not sound correct. I have always heard that long cranks will damage the starter. It also says to start the engine with the throttle at idle position. Again, that does not sound correct.Then comes the guy recommending setting fire to the intake manifold. You can see why I am getting confused, too much conflicting information. I am not sure there is really anything wrong yet. I am trying to find out how most people do a cold start. If mine is different, then I will proceed with deeper trouble shooting of the system. I really appreciate all the real world advice you can give me.


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## Ultradog

First of all, you should always mention which 4000 you are talking about here.
A 1962-64 four cylinder model or a 1965-75 three cylinder model?
My pal Kenny has an 841 diesel which is the same 172 ci engine that was used in the early 4000s.
It does start harder than my 3 cylinder diesels do. Usually though a max crank of about 20 seconds will get it to fire off for the first time that day.
His does have a fresh engine it so I know it's not low compression. Low compression will usually make them slow to start.
My 3 cyl diesels generally start pretty quick. Like maybe 2-3 seconds max this time of year.
Slower when it's colder of course. Maybe 5 to 8 seconds at 40°.
Below 40° I usually plug in the block heater. An hour or two with the heater plugged in will start it like it's July.


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## thepumpguysc

1st of all we/YOU have to determine what inj. pump is on your tractor..
A CAV DPA rotary pump or a Simms in-line pump..
The steel lines coming off the pump, going to the injectors will help determine what u have..
Do they come OFF THE PUMP in a straight line or in a circle.??
A straight line is an in-line pump, Simms & a circle is a rotary, CAV DPA..
On a Simms theres a cold start button on the shut off lever..
I'll get more into THAT after we determine whatcha got..


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## Ultradog

thepumpguysc said:


> 1st of all we/YOU have to determine what inj. pump is on your tractor..
> A CAV DPA rotary pump or a Simms in-line pump..
> The steel lines coming off the pump, going to the injectors will help determine what u have..
> Do they come OFF THE PUMP in a straight line or in a circle.??
> A straight line is an in-line pump, Simms & a circle is a rotary, CAV DPA..
> On a Simms theres a cold start button on the shut off lever..
> I'll get more into THAT after we determine whatcha got..


Pump guy,

Im pretty sure Ford never used an inline pump on the 3 cyl 4000s.
They did on a few of the early 3000s and on the 4 cyl tractors - 5000, 7000, etc.


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## thepumpguysc

ED, do u know how to take pictures w/ your phone.?? & get them to the computer.?
It's ahellofalot EASIER to just take a pic. Of the fuel & air systems... PUMP, INJ, & AIR INTAKE.
ALOT of the DPA's & 3 cylinder engines have a "Thermo-start" system on them for starting..
Theres a hard plastic line coming off the side cover onthe pump, that feed return fuel to a canister.. THAT canister then feeds fuel to a screw in "glow plug" on the air intake pipe..
The key switch must be turned to the left inorder to activate the glow plug or 1/2 way between off & crank..
The switch gets the plug glowing RED/WHITE HOT in the intake pipe then while u tern the engine over, fuel is drawn in & across the G.P. & it starts a small fire in the intake & heats the cylinders to ease the engine starting process..
U can do a search for "thermo-start" & get an idea of what it looks like.
Its located just past the rubber intake boot.. where it goes from rubber to metal..
SOME HAVEM & SOME DONT.. it was an option..
It might be easier to send the pictures to my home email.. just click on my screen name to the left of the page to get the address..


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## Ed Williams

I will take some pictures during daylight tomorrow. I don't think it has that feature, or any glow plugs. All I see is the block heater. Finally got the new tire and tube delivered. Took a real bath on freight costs. Wound up buying a manual bead breaker after thumping on the tire with the old tire irons for two 10 hour days. The new tool had both beads broken in about 10 minutes, including turning the tire over. Had to use the old NAA and boom pole to turn tire over. Too heavy for me. I am not readily impressed with "new" tools. Dad was a MAC dealer for 30 yrs. But this tool was really impressive on how well it worked. Says it will work on any tire from wheel barrows to 42" backhoe tires. Got tire and tube mounted on reconditioned rim and ready to mount on tractor tomorrow. Neighbor wad kind to volunteer to help getting back on tractor. Wish us luck. He also said he would help reload the tire with ballast. I made a pump out of the old power steering pump from the pickup and run it with regulated air on an air wrench. A little slow, but works very well.


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## dozer966

The glow plug is on the inside. Hard to see look between the block and the intake manifold. Many of these have been electricity disconnected. You will see a spade on it and a plastic or metal hose on it. If you have it I suggest you put it back in service. They work great and inexpensive to replace.


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## Ed Williams

Thanks. I will look tomorrow and take.some pics.


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## Ed Williams

Will take pics tomorrow in day light and see. Do not remember seeing any tabs or hoses while cleaning for paint, but will look again. From description, must drop manifold to replace glow plugs. My tractor is a 1970 4000 3.3L 3 cyl. How many glow plugs would there be with thus motor?


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## thepumpguysc

It doesn't have "GLOW PLUGS".. it has 1 plug that glows.. maybe.
IF u have it, it will be screwed into the AIR intake pipe, right where I said it should be..


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## Ed Williams

Here are pics of fuel system and intake. I see a fuel line at the head of the intake, but elect connection or wiring.


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## thepumpguysc

YUP, that thermostart was right where I said it was..
Do a search on it & you'll find it has an electrical connection or its supposed to.. it looks like yours is broken off.. Do u see any wires dangling or tied-up close by.??


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## Ed Williams

I could not find any wires close to that area. No telling where they were cut. I think the best bet is to purchase a new thermostaert. Any harm in running new wire from a new switch installed in the cowl lower than the current ignition switch. It is difficult to reach and harder to identify. Just have to remember to turn off when motor starts.


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## deerhide

One procedure (trick) I have used for hard to start ones or on a cold day is: full throttle, fuel shut-off in OFF, start it cranking 5 or maybe a bit more seconds and then, with it still cranking, shove in (or whatever) the shut off.


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## dozer966

I set mine up with a seperate circuit. A relay, in line fuse and a push button that way you won't forget it on. On cold days(-20*C) I hold it for about 20 to 30 seconds while still holding push button crank engine over with half throttle. Fire's right up no problem


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## Ed Williams

I went ahead and ordered a new thermal start unit and momentary on pushbutton to mount on the cowling next to the ignition switch. I am certain this will clear up a lot of questions on the srarting procedure. I just could not understand why Ford would make a diesel tractor without glow plugs for cold starting. Other diesel tractors I had been around had glow plugs of one type or another. I could not get my head around that all this 1970 Ford 4000 had for cold starts was a block heater. I want to thank all you guys for all your help and the much needed info. I hate being a newbie to diesels, but everyone has to start somewhere. ThanKS again for all the help. Bye the way. I got the new tire assembled and mounted on the tractor. It was a big job for 2 old retirees way past their heavy liftING days, but we got it done. The old NAA proved she is worth keeping for just this type of work, even with the weak hydraulics. Now in the process of loading the tire, then back to work we go.


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## Ed Williams

Good news and bad news today. Pretty sure I found the wire to the thermo-start. Nicely coiled up and wire tied to one of the copper lines going to the pot on the other side of the motor. It has the correct female blade fitting and reaches the thermo-start with 2 inches to spare. Bad news, I cannot get power to the wire from the ignition switch. Tried every setting possiblu. ,,phe key switch. Wire runs in harness going ildirection of ignition switch. May have broken wire or not hooked up at ignition switch. On with plan B, install separate fused circuit with momentary pushbutton switch on dash
Other news. Got 37 gallons of ballast loaded in new tire. 9 gal to go. My little freebie pump works; slow but sure.


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## thepumpguysc

Its almost like I'm sneekin in your barn looking it over while u sleep..Lol.
If I recall, the activation sequence it 1/2 way between start & shut off.. just a little ramp before that starter turns..
BUT the push button is good too..


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## Ed Williams

I figured out the position on the ignition switch, but no power to the wire. I have an extra hole in the lower cover below the ignition switch. Easy access, room behind for pushbutton, and easy reach from seat. Looks like I have a winner. Will install when parts arrive.it looks like fuel is fed to the thermalstart by gravity. Does tractor position play a factor in how it works?


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## Ed Williams

Saw a new one today on utube. The guy literally built a fire on the ground under the oil pan. He used a metal container and charcoal. Gave a good bit of detail on how to build your own. In the video, you cold see flames coming out of the top of the can and touching the oil pan. His comentary was after 45 min to 1 hour the metal would be pleasantly hot and the engine wold start right up, no problem. Are these guys for real? I hope he has good insurance when he burns his tractor to the ground. We deal with enough problems day to day without creating a big one from sheer stupidity. I hope no one follows his teachings. You should watch the video if you get a chance. It was under "tractor cold starts".


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## dozer966

Lol. It is an old practice but still used today. When I worked in the lumber industry we did this with a propane tiger torch. I've seen it drop to -53*C in northern Ontario. We would put a tarp over the engine compartment and put the torch under the engine. Usually we had all the equipment running by 11 AM and start work by 1PM. Riley don't miss those days.


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## Ed Williams

In my former life I spent 43 yrs in heavy industry. We had may times we had to thaw things out b to run. We b used oxy/ act rosebud heaters, high press propane heaters, forced draft kerosene, etc. These were all used in a controlled manner with real people operating the units and bearing responsibility. All people were trained on the equipment used and operating safety procrfures. Where is the fire ext, means to control or remove heat source. This whole thing is a disaster waiting to hsppen.there are right ways, wrong ways, and stupip ways of accompol I shihg]]]1


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## thepumpguysc

I've done it too.. both under & IN the intake. LOL.. sometimes u do whatcha gotta do..


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## thepumpguysc

As far as I know, tractor position does not play into it..
Could u post a pick of the side of the injection pump & the PATH the fuel flows TO the thermostart.?? I'm trying to wrap my head around this..
Are u sure there isn't a canister up on the firewall.?? OR does it come straight from the SIDE of the IP & go directly to the thermostart.??


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## Ed Williams

It goes to a canister on the firewall, then gravity to the thermostart.just wondered if tractor was parked facing uphil, would gravity feed not work. Is the canister pressurized from the feed from the injector pump? Never thought about that.


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## thepumpguysc

Yes.. Theres a constant flow from the IP to the canister that "pushes" the fuel to the thermo..
There IS a BUILT IN PROBLEM w/ THAT system tho..
The actual electric plug that goes into the intake will eventually fail..
When they fail, they usually fail w/ the "valve" OPEN.. allowing fuel to be drawn into the engine contantly.. You'll KNOW IT by the HEAVY BLACK SMOKE.. from unburnt fuel.
THATS "probably why" it was disconnected.. instead of buying a 25.00 part, they opted for a 300.00 starter rebuild.. or a 3000.00 engine O/H from using ether.. Lol


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## Ed Williams

Thanks for the infp. I don't know why I sit around worrying about things that a r not really a problem. FYI I found a new thermostart for $9.68, no tax and free shipping, and the pushbutton for $2.65, no tax and free shipping. " cheapest parts on this tractor". Why would you not replace them and to all the other problems this causes.


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## thepumpguysc

Without going back & reading the thread.. "back then" if it sat.. they didn't have such easy access to the info like we have now.. so they just "cut the cord" so to speak..


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## Ed Williams

Finally some success. Installed the new thermal start and pushbotton. Thought I had another problem when it blew a 20 amp fuses after 10 seconds. Every thing rated for 30 amps, so replaced 20 amp with 30 amp fuse. Thermo start working fine now. At 20-25 seconds, there is a loud bang in the manifold. Scared the he'll out of me the first time. Now use the thermo start for 20-25 seconds, then crank. Engine starts within 6-8 seconds. Good enough for me. Tremendous improvement from where it started.


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## thepumpguysc

That's GOOD NEWS..
1 more thing>> on the outside of the inj. pump, on the mounting ear, theres a timing line.. THAT timing line should be AT "0*" or very close to it.. to the #'s on the engine block.
& on the name plate of the inj. pump theres an arrow.. that arrow shows the direction of pump rotation.. IF u were to loosen the pump mounting bolts & turn the pump the OPPOSITE WAY of the arrow 1* ... THAT will advance the inj. pump timing & it will start much faster..


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## Ed Williams

Thanks for the info.I will try that.


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## Ed Williams

UPDATE: I advanced the timing 2 degrees this morning. New starting procedure is 20 seconds of thermalstart, then motor starts in 3-4 seconds. This is a vast improvement from where we initially started. Thank you for all the help in getting the tractor in good running order. I seriously doubt if I would ever figure it out on my own.have


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## thepumpguysc

BE CAREFUL.. I've seen 2* cause overheat problems before..
SO, keep an eye on the temp.. I normally tell folks 1/2-1* on advancing the timing..
just for THAT reason..
Glad we could help.. & paypal IS open.. Lol.


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## Ed Williams

My PayPal is seriously overdrawn at the moment due to paint, parts, tires, bumpers, and ballast. Sometimes I wonder if I will ever get them paid off. Will my sincere gratitude due for now.

I took her out for 3 hours of reditching the driveway drainage. You may not believe this, but the temp gauge was about 1/8" lower than where stayed previously. I am not a speed demon with anything on a tractor. I maintained a constant 1500 rpm and only used 1&R while working. 3 going long runs at same throttle. This should be a good test of the cooling system. The temp gauge has been staying about 1/16 below the red, even after a complete fluid c hange. It pretty much stayed at 3/16 below the red line the the entire time I was working it. I think I am OK on the cooling system vs timing. If I run into any other problems, I will explore he r e first.

I am a retired Chemical Engineer with 43 years of heavy industry experience and certified welder on carbon steel, cast steEl and nickel. Maybe I can help people in other areas, as you all have helped me with my first diesel.


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## thepumpguysc

Have fun.. & Happy Tractoring.!!!


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## Ed Williams

Hey Pumpguy. I decided you know more about diesels than I ever will. I was getting what I considered excessive smoke from exhaust I was not seeing before. Backed the timing off to 1 degree advance. Smoking has stopped. New starting procedure. Did 10 tests of thermal start vs crank time to find best results. Thermalstart for 25 seconds equals engine start in 3 seconds. I am officially DONE. My daddy used to say " it will never get well if you don't stop picking at it". Outstanding results in my opinion. Y o u sure do know your stuff.

Now on to the next problem. Maybe you can help. How to convince the wife I need to keep the NAA. I thought the boom pole and using it to change the tire on the 4000 would do it, but she is difficult to covince. I have had the NAA for 45 yrs now. HaRd to l et go of a good old friend.
Trying to stall until deep in winter. Maybe if new to me 4000 tractor won't start and the old friend NAA does will help. Wh:at is wrong with having 2 tractors a r ound. Her Dad and brother lost 7 in the shed fire, plus there are at least 8 parts tractors I have counted in the " equipment field" they cleared in the woods.


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## thepumpguysc

To be honest.. I really don't know the starting procedure using a thermo-start..
BUT 25 sec. seems excessive to me..
Have u tried a 1 1000, 2 1000 3 1000, all the way to 10 & tried to start it.??
I'm "SURE" the proc. is written in the user manual somewhere.. yeah, but try digging 1 up.Lol
Glad it worked out for ya..


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## Ed Williams

Actually, no. I had intended originally to time the procedure with my watch, but I no longer have a watch. It was a casualty of the rear tire change. Took a direct hit from a 4 lb mini sledge while holding a tire iron. When your arm gets tired, your aim goes south quickly. Busted crystal clear off and bent bottom frame. Probably absorbed enough energy that it saved me from breaking a wrist. Have not been to town for replacement yet.

A friend has a diesel pickup and he told me he had a "wait" light on the dash. You wait for the light to go out before cranking. He has never timed it, but guessed it takes 20-25 sec for the light to go out. I assumed Ford=Ford so that's where I started. Probably need to go back to my original thoughts and do it correctly,


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## Ed Williams

I found the Operators Manual I downloaded previously. Buried in the middle and a little hard to find is the "recommended diesel starting procedure". You were right again. It was in there. The Ford manual says the thermal start is a separate push button located above the key switch. I have a hole at that location. So, it operates off a separate switch/circuit that was removed from my tractor in its previous life. So we were on the right track with the push button. It also says to press and hold the push button in for 30 to 90 seconds, throttle 1/4 open, before cranking, depending on outdoor temperature, then release the button prior to cranking. The next paragraph says if engine will not start after 3 attempts to let it cool 15-30 minutes, then apply a short burst of ether based starting fluid into the intake breather and attempt start at 1/2 throttle w/o using the thermal start

According to the above published literature, my 25 seconds is right in line with Ford's recommended starting procedure. News Flash. The manual also recommends not attempting to start a diesel equipped tractor if.the ambient. temperature is below 15 deg F. Won'1 the guys up North be thrilled to heaR this.


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## Ed Williams

Hey pump guy. I finally decided to put my engineer training to solve my questions on diesel engines. I got out my pad and paper and wrote down every question and answer I had on starting a diesel engine. Feel free to comment if I have missed anything. 1), read the owners manual page by page, cover to cover. The manufacturer is the governing standard for his product. 2) You must have a strong battery that will crank the engine at least 200 rpm. 3) You must have a working glow plug for the engine to start as designed, even if all you have is a hole in the dash and a coiled up wire. 4) You have to determine how long to use the glow plug and how long to crank based on ambient temperature. 5) You cannot start a diesel engine below 15 deg F. 6) If ambient temperature is below 15 deg F, you start a fire under the tractor to raise the ambient temperature to within manufacturers specifications. 7) If it still won't start, and all the above conditions have been met, your glow plug is not performing and you need to light a fire in the intake manifold to assist the glow plug. It all seems so simple when you write it all down and analyze your data.Per the Ford Owners Manual, if the engine will not start after 3 tries, wait 30 minutes and shoot the manifold with Ether. I would add one more item that I have not seen mentioned. Make sure your tractor is 100% insured, especially for fire. You might want to double the insurance coverage if yor tires are loaded with methanol. I think I have everything together now and should be able to handle this new type of motor to me. Oh shoot. I forgot to include altering the timing to aid starting. That should be in there somewhere as it probably helped moRe than anything, after the glow plug of course. Let me know if I have missed anything. Ha-Ha. I really do appreciate all your insight and help. I wonder why Ford did not put a compression release on this motor. Seems like it would make everything simplier. Other manufacturers have it and it is common on a variety of motors such as chain saws, weed eaters, motorcycles, etc. as a starting aid.

I ran the glow plug vs crank test.
Glow 10 sec - crank 45 sec
Glow 15 sec - crank 32 sec
Glow 20 sec - crank 15 sec
Glow 25 sec - crank 8 sec
Glow 30 sec - crank 4 sec
That is where I stopped. A 4 sec start time is more than good enough for me. Glow plugs much cheaper than starters or batteries.


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## thepumpguysc

I like your style.. lol
Im glad someone finally looked it up in the book.. thanks for that..
It also makes a HUGE difference in throttle position..
Being a fuel injection rebuilder, I'm privy to a teststand & can perform my own tests & actually SEE where the diff. lies.. 
Right ON the test sheet it says for the starting test.. PULL THROTTLE TO WIDE OPEN & start the test..
IF u leave the throttle in the LOW IDLE position for starting, it cuts the fuel delivery in 1/2.!!! & that's NOT what u want trying to start a 40 year old machine..
BUT then again, u don't want the engine starting a 2800 rpms either..
Like everything else we all own, theres "a trick" to starting them..


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## Ed Williams

Thanks again for the info. I have been playing around with various settings. It seems to start the best with 20-25 sec on the glow plug, 2/3 to 3/4 throttle. It has been starting in 3-4 sec at these positions. That may change as the weather gets colder. I was able to check with my father-in-law yesterday, and that is comparable to what he does with the Ford 6610 he had before the shed firc. I do not have a place to store inside for the winter, so I ordered a heavy duty tarp and 2 250 watt heat lamps. Plan to build a "tent" over the tractor with the front end closed. With the block heater and the 2 heat lamps I should be able to keep the motor above freezing. That should help the cold starting. I do have a backup plan. I have a 250,000 but salamander on wheels. I can turn that sucker on and blow hot air into the "tent" to really heat things up.

I did want to ask your opinion on magnetic block heaters. Are the any good, or just a waste of money? Just loozing for another back up plan in case my existing block heater does not work.


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## Bill S

Former mechanic and service manager in a Ford Tractor dealership, then a service rep for Ford Tractor. Thermostart has both diesel fuel and 12V power connected to it. The 12V wire goes through a coiled bi-metal heater and grounds to the intake manifold. The two metals in the coil expand at different rates when heated from the 12V power. That causes the coil to rotate and open a valve and allow the diesel fuel to flow into the manifold over the heating coils. At some point the heated coils cause the incoming fuel to start smoking and then ignite a small flame inside the intake manifold. This heats the incoming air sufficiently to allow the engine to start. The ignition switch has several positions: Off, Run, Thermostart, and Crank (Thermostart position activates the heating coil/fuel but does not engage the starter. Crank engages the starter while continuing to activate Thermostart). 

The Thermostart is not very effective until the fuel actually ignites, and that does not happen until the heater coil has been on long enough to both get hot, and rotate enough to open the fuel valve and ignite the fuel. That process takes about 30-40 seconds. You can remove the intake hose at the manifold, have someone else activate the Thermostart, and actually watch that process and see the small flame start. Time the process and you will know how long you need to hold the switch in Thermostart mode in order to have it function fully.

In moderate temperatures (down to 35 or 40 degrees) the engine will typically start without using Thermostart if the battery/starter/compression are all good. If the engine cranks too slowly due to tired battery or starter, or if the engine is worn (bad rings or valves) and compression is low it will need those areas addressed before it will start reliably and quickly without Thermostart. 

Watch the outlet of the exhaust. if you see lots of white smoke while cranking that is an indication of unburned fuel typically due to low compression. A small amount of white smoke is normal when first cranking but should immediately turn to black smoke once the engine fires. 

The fuel for the Thermostart comes from a small reservoir that is re-supplied by the excess fuel lines coming from the tops of the injectors. If the Thermostart reservoir leaks, or if the Thermostart valve does does rotate back and shut off there will be no fuel for the Thermostart heater to ignite.


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## Ed Williams

Boy Bill S. Thanks for the wealth of information I have been searching for and unable to find. I have been searching for over a month on the net to find the exact operation of the thermalstart system, but could only find bits and pieces. You laid it all out so I could understand. The Owners Manual I have was pretty vague on how it operated and hoe long to engage the thermal start before cranking. It was like all engines are a little different, and you must go by trial and error to determine how it best works for your engine. Thanks for helping to straighten this out for me.

On another note. With your bsckground, do you know why Ford did not include a compression release to aid in cold starts? The Owners Manual was really confusing when it said you should not attempt to start a diesel engine when ambient temp was below 15 deg F. Is that a limitation of the thetmal start system? It gets a lot colder than that in a lot of places, including where I live. What are your thoughts in starting in below zero weather. I do not have any facilities. To store inside. It has to sit outside in the weather.


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