# 1962 ford 4000 industrial diesel timing problem



## roseboystoys

I recently aquired a Ford 4000 Industrial Backhoe. It has a 4 cylinder Diesel. Timing is off and needs to be adjusted. Could anyone tell me how to move the gear back? It appears it's off about 2 teeth. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## sixbales

QUOTE: "I recently aquired a Ford 4000 Industrial Backhoe. It has a 4 cylinder Diesel. Timing is off and needs to be adjusted. Could anyone tell me how to move the gear back? It appears it's off about 2 teeth. Any help would be greatly appreciated."

First thing you need to get is a shop manual. I think an I&T FO-20 manual should be sufficient. It's brief and to the point. They will have photos illustrating the timing marks aligned. Ebay usually has a good selection for about $30.

There are two different model 4000's, your's is the earlier version (4 cylinder engine) built from 1962 through 1964. It should have a Roosa Master injection pump. Please confirm.

Your tractor will not start if the timing gears are off by 2 teeth. BTDT. How did you determine that the gears are off by 2 teeth? Do you have the timing gear cover off? 

The only way that I know to align the timing gears is to remove the timing gear cover and rotate the engine many times till the 3 sets of lines (crankshaft gear, camshaft gear, camshaft drive gear, and injection pump drive gear) all line up. 

If you are at this point, and the injection pump gear is off by 2 teeth, simply remove the injection pump gear (remove center bolt only), rotate gear and pump, and align the marks. The gear goes on only one way, so you can't screw up. 

If nobody has ever touched the timing gears, they should be set right. If the pump has been removed, and the mechanic was not careful, you could be off by 1 or 2 teeth. But the engine will not start if off by 2 teeth. It might start if you are off by only one tooth?? But it will run poorly.

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Timing the Roosa Master pump itself is a completely different process. Specified timing of the pump is 23 degrees BTDC. I'll go through this with you in another note. Please give me some feedback of where you stand at present.


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## sixbales

I found the following timing procedure on the internet written by JOHN BUD. 

If it is a 4 cyl with a roosa master pump;

1) Find the compression stroke for the #1 piston and then set the timing to 23 degrees BTDC. There is a little round "window" about the size of a quarter under the hydraulic pump that lets you see the timing marks on the flywheel. You will have to remove the rocker/valve cover to find the comp stroke. Both rocker arms should be slack on front #1 cylinder.

2) Open the rectangular timing cover on the pump. Held on with 2 screws. There are 2 scribe lines. One moves as the pump is turned. You have to get the pump installed and both lines EXACTLY lined up at the static time of 23 degrees.

3) the pump drive (part that is driven by the camshaft) has a big slot on it that is off set from center. That will allow you to only put the pump in phase. If the pump doesn't align up and stay in time, that drive is needing to be rotated 180. If it wasn't taken out, you should be OK. To be sure, after installation of the hard lines from the pump to the injectors, rotate the engine a couple times and find the #1 compression stroke, set it to 23 degrees and make sure the time is still right. 


Button up everything, except the hard line at the injectors. Use a NEW filter and bleed out at the top of the housing. Then wait about 5-10 min for the fuel to self bleed into the pump. (good time for a cold beverage...). Then crank the engine over until you have good flow out the lines at the injectors. 

Fire it up and have a good look for leaks.


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## roseboystoys

Thank you for all of the great information. The engine was totally rebuilt by the previous owner. I was there when he started it for the first time. It would not stay running. Could have been the timing issue. Maybe it is only 1 tooth off which could be the reason for running bad. He told me the injector pump needed rebuilt. I had it rebuilt and the shop set it to #1 at TDC..When we went to put it in we set the engine at #1 TDC and the two did not line up...that's when I thought it could be about 2 teeth off just from eyeballing it. It's probably 1 tooth off as you have stated above. It is a Stanodyne injector pump. So it sounds like I need to remove the injection pump gear (remove center bolt only), rotate gear and pump, and align the marks?


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## sixbales

My tractor's injection pump has a hub with three bolts and an alignment dowel for attachment of the pump drive gear. I don't know what your Stanadyne pump configuration may have for attaching the drive gear. Also, the 23 degrees BTDC timing stated above may not be correct for a Stanadyne pump. You definitely need a shop/service manual for guidance.


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## ilwacoirish

Help!!! I have a '62? '63? '64? Ford 4000 4 cylinder diesel tractor with a STANADYNE (on the plate) Rosssa Master (cast on the top of the pump) injection pump. When I removed the pump the drive gear came up with it, and I'm not sure I'm getting it back together correctly...I'm not all sure that 23 degrees BTDC is correct either. On the fly wheel there is the 0 degrees mark and it goes up to 10 degrees (in direction of rotation BTDC, right?) and up to 15 degrees (in the opposite direction ATDC, right?) The 2 degrees ATDC mark is a notably longer slash then the others, is this significant? Anyway, the best I've been able to do (so far) is to get the alignment marks on the pump to line up at that 2 degrees ATDC mark. Hummm, got any suggestions? By the way, I'm an aircraft mechanic not a diesel mechanic. I'm here at Gethsemane Ministry Camp near Shelton, Wash. and we're doing the best we can with what we've got.... Thank you for your time, David


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## sixbales

Howdy ilwacoirish,

Welcome to the Ford/New Holland Tractor Forum. 

Have a look at the attached diagrams. Does the "diesel fuel injection pump" look like the one you are working with? 

Or does it look like the pump labeled "ref" on the "diesel fuel system 58" diagram?

Just above and behind your starter there is a flat spot with numbers stamped in the metal. Look on the opposite side of the engine as well. Please post any numbers you find on these spots. 

Are you looking at the flywheel timing marks through the little inspection hole at the right side rear of the engine?


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## ilwacoirish

Thank you for your quick reply Sixbales. I am unable to view the system 58 for some reason??? But our pump looks like first one (09F01). I'm going now to check for those numbers you mentioned stamped on the metal. And yes, I've been viewing the marks on the fly wheel on the lower right side rear, just below a small rectangular plate on the side of the engine. I'll bet back when I can. Thank you again, I'm under the gun here...


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## ilwacoirish

Ps, Sixbales; I could not find any stamped markings on (either side of) the engine in the area of the starter. I see some raised numbers on the side of the block below the oil dip stick; 310609. This tractor is a backhoe version with a Sherman Power Digger on it. The model # of the pump is DBGVCC4298AJ, serial # 1886354. And I'm fairly certain the lower drive gear for the pump is out of place, and am thoroughly confused over the timing since the markings on the fly wheel only go to 10 degrees before and 15 degrees after....humm? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm not even sure which manual to try and attempt to get. Thanks Friend


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## sixbales

The model and serial numbers are on the flat spot on the bell housing beneath the air cleaner and just above and behind the starter. Some of these old diesels had battery acid leaks that corroded the numbers away. Maybe this is why you can't read it? Take a wire brush and scrub the dirt and debris away.

A major problem with these old tractors is that they are often "cobbled" together with parts from other tractors. I call my tractor the "Super Mutt" because it has parts from many tractors. But it runs beautifully.

Of particular concern with your tractor is the timing marks not going to 23+ degrees. Maybe someone has changed out the flywheel?? 

Also, the gear coming out with the injection pump? Unless there is an orienting mechanism beyond the gear, all timing is lost.


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## sixbales

Your flywheel should be numbered all the way to 30 degrees BTDC. If not, obviously the flywheel has been changed. You might be able to scribe marks on it to set the timing at 23 degrees BTDC?? 

A Ford Service Manual details the procedure to get everything in time. I think an I&T FO-20 Shop Manual should suffice. You can find one on ebay for around $30


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## sixbales

I obtained the following comments on the internet from *(RON) RBnSC* :

*"The marks on the flywheel should be there. If not, You might have to get creative and measure and mark it your self. If you set the crank on the 23 degree mark Then line up the marks in the pump. Then visually match the slot in drive to the injector pump shaft by picking up the drive and turning it. If the drive came out when you pulled it should not be more than a 1 or 2 teeth off. When its right the pump will drop into place with out forcing it down and the flywheel will be at 23 deg and the pump lines will line up. If it white smokes and won't start then it could be 180 degrees out. Then line up the marks pull the injector pump turn the crank 360 deg. and pull the drive up and turn it 180 degrees and drop the injector pump back in and realign the marks and tighten down Once primed it should run. Unless your tractor has an sos trans. I would pull it off to crank it instead of putting all that wear on my starter."*
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If your pump is OK, the above procedure should git 'er done. 

Remember, timing is based on the #1 cylinder (foreward cylinder) being at TDC on the compression stroke. Find the compression stroke for the #1 piston and then set the timing to 23 degrees BTDC. You will have to remove the rocker/valve cover to find the compression stroke. Both rocker arms should be slack on front #1 cylinder.

Good Luck


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## ilwacoirish

thanks for all your help Sixbales. i just now have been able to get back, and I STILL HAVEN'T got that thing figured out...but I am not giving up! Thanks again! Ilwacoirish


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## stuartgmast

1964 Ford 4000 172ci Diesel what is the head bolt torque


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## Big_T

1964 Ford 4000 172ci Diesel head bolts torque at 100-105 ft lbs. Rods torque at 45-50 ft. lbs. and pal nuts at 3-4 ft. lbs.


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## winegrower

1964 Ford 4000 Diesel 172 cu in The engine recently seized up and I discovered Diesel in the crankcase. Before I spend alot of time doing detective work does anyone know where the diesel is probably coming from.


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## harry16

Hello winegrower,

Welcome to the Ford/New Holland tractor forum.

Three possibilities for diesel in oil that I can think of:

1. Leaking shaft seal on the injection pump. 

2. There is a diesel return line from injectors under valve cover that has soldered fittings. These are known to leak at soldered joints after years of use. 
Also, the return line goes into the fuel tank and has a riser tube inside the tank which is probably broken off. If so, this would allow fuel to flow from the tank to the engine through the tube leak under the valve cover.

3. If one cylinder has not been firing due to insufficient compression, this would allow diesel to flow past the rings into the oil.


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## winegrower

Thanks Harry16,

I will let you know what I find.
This tractor was purchased new by my dad and I was bailing hay with it the day the dealer delivered it. Now it spends time where needed in my vineyard.


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## sixbales

Hey winegrower,

What kind of wine do you produce?? Where are you located?? Maybe we can work a deal here to help you pay for the tractor repair!!


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## jdd

Help. I have a 1964 Ford 4000 diesel and I can't insert the fuel injection pump where it will properly seat in the pump drive gear after lining up the flywheel at 18 degrees and the markings lined up according to the manual on the injection pump. I can't position the pump drive gear bore approximately vertical according to where is suspose to be to get the injection pump tp properile seat When I rotate the engine, the bore slot either stops one space before approximately vertical or one space beyond vertical . Any suggestion would be appreciated. 
jdd


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## cnntnsxty

Anyone have luck just putting one long standpipe for both injector and pump return together. On 172 with roost master


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