# Pasture Renovation



## Simpleprestige (Apr 20, 2007)

Hi, we have about 4 1/2 acres of horse pasture that aren't growing anything but clover and weeds. I think that a disc would be ideal and then we could just rip it kup, seed it, rip it up again, and then run a landscape rake through to get rid of all the rocks. Tho only problem is that we are located in an old gravel pit. It is all sand and rocks that are up to 5" in diameter. Some people have told us that we need a plow or a tine harrow. Input would be appreciated, the hayburners won't eat the weeds.


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

Me personally I would run a disc lightly over it and then seed in a hybrid bermuda grass. I like the Tifton 44 and Vaughn variety of bermuda grass for hay and pasture. As far as the weeds go I would spray it with MSMA and watch the weeds go byebye.


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## Simpleprestige (Apr 20, 2007)

This MSMA, is it safe for horses. That is why we are redoing the pastures. It is all weeds and they only pick at them, resulting in us spending more money on hay. The Bermuda grass, is it a good thick rich grass, or is it just a tall bushy thing like you find in hay fields. We are thinking about renting a disc and ripping it up in the fall, and then seeding it and ripping it again in the spring. I am new to this whole grass thing, I just need a little input to turn my pastures green. Thanks


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Bermuda grass may not make a very good pasture grass in cold climates due to its winter dormancy. The horses will eat the Bermuda grass down to dirt during the winter and cold months. 

I imagine Morgan can tell us much more about what grasses would be the best choice for different areas and climates of the country. 

I would think a good mix of warm and cool season grasses make the best sense to keep the pasture growing year round as much as is possible.


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## Simpleprestige (Apr 20, 2007)

Yeah, we are in west MI, soo in the winter, it gets down below zero and in the summer it will get in the 110 degree area. Right now, everything is dead, because we haven't had a good rain in at least a month. The Simplicity hasn't been used in 5 weeks. It rained yesterday for about four hours, but the sand just soaked it right up and within a couple of hours it was bone dry again.

It says that Morgan works at a sod farm, so I would hope he knows a thing or two about grass all i know is that we need about a week of steady downpour. Would it be easier to buy a disc, or should we jsut rent one, also , is the seeding process something that has to be done every year, or will we be good after just once. I am not looking forward to all the rocks we are going to turn over discing or plowing the pasture.


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

You are right I didnt look at were you are located Bermuda really wouldnt be right for your climate. Goto this website http://www.bermudagrass.com/ for information about bermuda climates. 
The thing is you need to stay away from Fescue unless its specificly endophyte free variety. The endophyte will harm horses.
Here is just one page referring to the endophyte. http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/horse/406-475/406-475.html
This is another site with good information http://www.noble.org/ag/Forage/HorseForage/page16.html
As far as MSMA on the grass and putting horses right on it, NO dont do that it contains arsnic it needs time to work and break down maybe two cuttings if thats all the pasture you have DO NOT use MSMA I didnt read close enough and realize you were using this pasture with horses. If you can do part and let it rest that is the only way I would use it.
Im not up to par on Cold climate grasses contact these people and they should be able to help you.
http://www.seedland.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=Seedland&Category_Code=farmseed

If I can help in some other way fire away with your question, Ill do my best to get you answers.


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

The more I think on this the more I think you might should just hit the pasture with a light dose of roundup and try and kill out the weeds and grass that is there all together. The weeds are a problem for sure if you have horses on the pasture. You might want to think about renting a good pasture for a while and renovate yours to get it in good shape. If you try and renovate the pasture with the horses on it I dont think it will ever turn out to be a good pasture. 

The bigger rocks are going to be a problem you might try and get as many of the rocks out as you can. Questions fire away.


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## wass (Jan 3, 2007)

The RoundUp is a good choice. It's a good idea to make zones in your pasture anyway to prevent overgrazing and allowing grazed areas to recover, but it would also let the reseeded areas to get established. Your county extension office and/or MSU would have information on procedure and types of seed. You might be able to forget the disc and just broadcast the seed on the snow in late winter or early spring.


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## Simpleprestige (Apr 20, 2007)

We actually have roughly seven acres of pasture. Our two larger ones up by the house are the ones we want to renovate and the others we will keep the horses in. We do rotate thehorses to allow the grass to grow, but right now it is impossible without rain. We only have 2-3 horses( brood mares) in these two pastures right now, two babies in our arena, and two 4-H steers on another two acre pasture. The last one is sitting empty. While doing this renovation, I would like to rent a manure spreader and spread the compost on these pastures to get rid of it. Any thoughts, please inpust.

Chief, by the way, how is that horse that you bought for your daughter


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Simpleprestige _
> *Chief, by the way, how is that horse that you bought for your daughter *


Aryia is doing just fine. She has gotten back in nice looking shape and is all fat N sassy. We had her in a small 2 acre fenced in field by the house in front of our barn but she had eaten that down to pretty much the weeds she did not like. She managed to get out twice, once by jumping the fence and the other when my daughter left a gate open while cleaning out the barn. We have since fenced in and expanded her field to about 12 acres of pasture with high tensile fence. We also fenced in another 15 acres across the road so now my daughter has a nice open area to ride her and is work with her to train her.


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## Scorpion (Jun 26, 2007)

Simpleprestige,

Same problem here, I'm trying this out. 
Pasture Pro™ Herbicide
Concentrated superior mixed-amine technology designed for broadleaf weed and brush control in pastures. No waiting period between application and grazing for non-lactating animals when used alone. Controls thistle, mesquite, multiflora rose and other weeds which may cause injury to animals and decrease grazing capacity.

I used my 25 Gal ATV sprayer with a 1 to 1.5 oz per gal let down.
So far my weeds are dead and my horses are going fine.

Be glad to answer any questions you might have.

Scorpion


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## Simpleprestige (Apr 20, 2007)

OK, Big Problem. We recieved a notice for some kind of weed called Hoary Alyssum that thrives in unfertile, overgrazed, and drought stricken soil. We have some friends whose horse collicked and someone else's may have to be put down because it consumed this weed. I took the picture out and sure enough, in the one pasture I don't have horses in, the weed is thriving. I am tempted to just spray the whole field with roundup or some other pesticide that kills everything, We definitely don't need our babies getting into it.


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Simpleprestige _
> *OK, Big Problem. We recieved a notice for some kind of weed called Hoary Alyssum that thrives in unfertile, overgrazed, and drought stricken soil. *


Are you having any rain at all. If its because of the ground being unfertile, through a good dose of lime to it if it hasnt had it limed in a while and then fertilize the **** out of it, the good grass will then overtake the weeds. I would do this after spraying for weeds though. You cant expect a pasture to produce if you dont feed it. Everybody looks at grass and doesnt think it needs feeding but to be a good looking grass you must feed it. Here is a picture of the sod farm and I know a thing or two about getting weeds out and getting grass to grow.

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Here is a website with information about feed for turf and its not much diffence in turf and pasture except pasture is expected to feed livestock and lawn is expected to look good. 
http://lawn-and-garden.hardwarestore.com/77-497-turf-builders.aspx


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## Simpleprestige (Apr 20, 2007)

We use lime, but we use t to control odor in the horse barn in the urine spots. How do you go about broadcasting it, because it is so fine I don't think it will work in a seeder. I am sorry if sound stupid, but I didn't even know that you were supposed to put lime on. We put nitrogen on the pastures a couple of times, but it only did good for about 3 or 4 weeks before the weeds overtook it again

We do get a little bit of rain, but the sand just soaks it right up before the grass can get to it. What I would like to do is:

1 Spray and kill everything in the pasture.
2 disc it
3 add a good dose of manure
4 disc it
5 Wait for spring
6 disc it again
7 seed the pasture
8 disc it 
9 Run a landscape rake over the tops to get the rocks out.


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

Nitrogen is only good for about 3 to 4 weeks and thats it. That is the main reason to use the feed. Manure is a good fertilizer to use but it doesnt work as fast and remember that manure is what has been eaten by the horses, if they eat weeds guess what the manure is going to put back on your ground weeds.
Lime can be broadcast with a broadcast spreader and yes its messy, you really need to take a soil sample and have it ****yzed to know exactly what you soil needs this only needs to be done once every 7 years or so but is worth it because you take all the guess work out of it. That test will tell you how many pounds of lime to put down per acre of ground also. 

For those that dont know what the lime will do it affects the PH of the ground. Think of it like a swimming pool you want your water neutral, likewise you want your ground neutral and if your ground is too acidic (thus the weeds) it needs to be brought closer to neutral.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

The easiest way to get lime spread in my opinion is to call your local coop and have them bring out about 10 tons of agricultural lime in a lime spreader truck. These trucks have very wide, high flotation tires so they don't compact the soil as much as you would think. The truck drives around the pasture with its broadcast spreader running. In most pastures that have not had lime in a long time; about 2 tons to the acres is what is required. To be certain, do a soil test and find out exactly what the pasture really needs with respect to lime and NPK. If you have access to one, it would be very beneficial to run a core aerator over the pasture BEFORE you spread the lime and or fertilizer. Sometimes you can find a deal on left over "weed N feed" fertilizer that has the weed herbicide mixed in with the fertilizer. That works well on pastures too. Otherwise you will have to spray or spread broad leaf herbicide separately.


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Simpleprestige _
> * What I would like to do is:
> 
> 1 Spray and kill everything in the pasture.
> ...


I would 
1. Spray round up 
2. Disc it
3. Run landscape rake over to get rocks out.
4. Disc again
5. Finish getting rocks out with rake
6. Lime as needed
7. Fertilize 
8. Wait for spring
9. Disc again
10. Run a harrow or simaliar to break up clots
11. Seed
In that order, you really dont want to do anything after you seed.


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## Simpleprestige (Apr 20, 2007)

I have researched and found a cheaper alternative for roundup is salt water. Does this have anylong term effects. The only road block I am running into right now is that I don't have a:

atv sprayer

disc

landscape rake

Surprisingly, I do have a tractor, atv and harrow. I am going to try and look used for this equipment, as I don't feel like spending $1200 on equipment and then just as much on seed.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Simpleprestige _
> *I have researched and found a cheaper alternative for roundup is salt water. Does this have anylong term effects. *


Salt water if put down in strong enough concentration WILL definitely kill the vegetation off in your pasture............. it would REALLY be an UNCOOL thing to do unless you don't want anything to grow in the pasture for several years. The Romans did something similar to this to farmers fields as a tactic to starve the their enemies or inflict vengance. They salted the fields of their enemies which would make them useless for many years. Expect to spend about $55 to $75 per acre spraying herbicides. Round Up or generic glyphosphate requires more volume of spray but is less expensive per container. You may want to look into spraying a strong pre-emergent herbicide such as Oust which is very expensive per container but does not take much to get the job done. If mixed properly, about 10 ounces per acre works well. I recently sprayed about 70 acres with Oust which cost me $55 per acre. You will have to shop around for pricing on this if you hire someone. A good sprayer for your tractor or ATV is going to cost somewhere in the $400 range.


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## Morgan (Oct 26, 2006)

I hire a local farmer friend of mine that has a sprayer and he buys the chemicals and I pay him $100.00 an acre to spray. He already has the equipment and makes a few dollars, I dont have to buy the equipment and it cost me just a little more than the chemicals would. Its a win, win situation for me.


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## Simpleprestige (Apr 20, 2007)

Oh, I guess salt water isn't such a smart idea after all. We went up to the Agriculteral Expo at MSU yesterday and talked to some people about grass for our pastures. We had a soil test done and it came back as a 5.7, apparrently 6.5 is grass sustainable. I am going to start another thread because I am thinking about switching to some large square hay bales because of the hay shortage.


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