# Jinma 252 cranking issue



## Chris129

Hi, I have a Jinma 254 (older one) and I have a starting issue. I have checked the starter out on the bench and it seems to be OK. When I jump the solenoid the starter spins right up. Checked the battery volts it to seems OK. When I install the starter and put the battery in and try to start it, it cranks like I have a dead battery, the engine barely turns over and will not start. Any body have a clue of whats going on?


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## pogobill

I wonder if it could be the brushes and or carbon build up in the starter itself?


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## Hoodoo Valley

Have you tried another battery?


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## RC Wells

Check the battery cables for good connections, no caked on corrosion inside the terminals or on the battery posts, and be sure the battery ground has no rust between the cable end and the ground point. Also inspect the battery cables for evidence of corrosion between the wire and the terminal ends, a band of green or white at that compression joint will mean a bad connection.

If the first paragraph does not solve the problem, load test the battery or try a good on as suggested bt Hoodoo Valley, if the battery is good then remove the starter and have it professionally tested. Pogobill is on to the most common problem when he suggested build-up in the starter itself. These starters have undercut commutators (where the brushes contact the armature), and they collect worn brush material in the grooves between the segments of the commutator. When that occurs most of your battery amperage is being routed to armature segments out of the order of the intended rotation of the starter. They spin freely without a load, but as soon as they are loaded they barely will turn and put a very heavy draw on the battery.


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## Chris129

pogobill said:


> I wonder if it could be the brushes and or carbon build up in the starter itself?


I don't think so. The guy I bought it from told me that he had just replaced the starter. Thanks for the come back


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## Chris129

Hoodoo Valley said:


> Have you tried another battery?


Yes, Tried two and the same thing. Thanks for the come back


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## Chris129

RC Wells said:


> Check the battery cables for good connections, no caked on corrosion inside the terminals or on the battery posts, and be sure the battery ground has no rust between the cable end and the ground point. Also inspect the battery cables for evidence of corrosion between the wire and the terminal ends, a band of green or white at that compression joint will mean a bad connection.
> 
> If the first paragraph does not solve the problem, load test the battery or try a good on as suggested bt Hoodoo Valley, if the battery is good then remove the starter and have it professionally tested. Pogobill is on to the most common problem when he suggested build-up in the starter itself. These starters have undercut commutators (where the brushes contact the armature), and they collect worn brush material in the grooves between the segments of the commutator. When that occurs most of your battery amperage is being routed to armature segments out of the order of the intended rotation of the starter. They spin freely without a load, but as soon as they are loaded they barely will turn and put a very heavy draw on the battery.


RC Wells That sound like a good idea, I will have it tested. Thanks for the come back


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## sierrasam93614

If you short it at starter with starter installed will it start? if so could be switch common for these Jinmas they pretty much all use the same switch jk290A. you could even try a remote starter button for automotive see if it will start.


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## Chris129

sierrasam93614 said:


> If you short it at starter with starter installed will it start? if so could be switch common for these Jinmas they pretty much all use the same switch jk290A. you could even try a remote starter button for automotive see if it will start.


Hi sierrasam, No it will not start, it cranks to slow. That is the problem I am having.


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## sierrasam93614

I would have the starter tested at an auto parts 5hey probably won't have a starter but can tell you if it's good or not

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## sierrasam93614

I have found circlegtractor best for Jinma parts

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## sierrasam93614

Also have them load test battery your using 

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## Chris129

sierrasam93614 said:


> Also have them load test battery your using
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tractor Forum mobile app


Hi Sierrasam93614, Took my starter and battery and had them tested as per your suggestion. Both units tested good. However hear's the thing. They could not find any specs for the starter, so they had to test it by guess. I found out that the battery is a deep cycle battery (675 CCA). They told that in this cold weather (-10 To -15) that would not turn over the diesel motor fast enough to start the engine especially when it has think oil in which it has. Don't know if I agree with that or not. I am thinking of getting a group 31 battery with 1000 CCA This battery is rated for diesel trucks and tractors. I have read on the internet that some people has done that for cold weather, and going to a synthetic oil as to there suggestion. What do you think?


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## RC Wells

I am not familiar with 252, but if it has the 2 cylinder diesel, your fully charged 675 CCA battery should be adequate to start the tractor.
I suspect a very cold engine and thick oil at those temperatures you list. Pick up a crankcase heater and warm the engine, it will probably start right up once it is warmed enough for the oil to flow easily. You may need to blanket the engine while it warms so the heat warms the engine block too.
Most of these Jimna tractors sold in the US were equipped with a block heater, so that should be plugged in for about six hours to adequately warm the block and coolant too. Almost no tractors come with an oil pan heater. One like this should be adequate, and they glue to the bottom of the oil pan.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FYX8T1W


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## sierrasam93614

The engine is most likely a 
Yang Dong Y385T - 3 Cylinder
Or a
LaiDong KM385 - 3 Cylinder
Both are I believe 93.5 cubic inches, so 675 cca is marginal for cranking and deep cycle batteries are not the best for starting, might be your whole problem. I would definately get a standard battery with at least 750 cca or more. For heating a simple cheap way hang a small light like an appliance bulb on it and throw a tarp over it, that is what I have used on my jet pump for my water system for years down to 20 degrees so should keep it warm enough to start easier.


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## sierrasam93614

Oil specification for 254 says delo 15/40 or comparable so the synthetic would be great

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## sierrasam93614

Here is a chart on some specs for Jinma
View attachment Jinma-Tractor-Fluid-_-Filter-Recommendations.pdf


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## Chris129

RC Wells said:


> I am not familiar with 252, but if it has the 2 cylinder diesel, your fully charged 675 CCA battery should be adequate to start the tractor.
> I suspect a very cold engine and thick oil at those temperatures you list. Pick up a crankcase heater and warm the engine, it will probably start right up once it is warmed enough for the oil to flow easily. You may need to blanket the engine while it warms so the heat warms the engine block too.
> Most of these Jimna tractors sold in the US were equipped with a block heater, so that should be plugged in for about six hours to adequately warm the block and coolant too. Almost no tractors come with an oil pan heater. One like this should be adequate, and they glue to the bottom of the oil pan.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FYX8T1W


Hi RC- It is not a 252 tractor, it is a 254 with a 3 cyl. engine. I belive it is Y385 however the book that I got with says it a Y80 Diesel Engine.


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## Chris129

sierrasam93614 said:


> Here is a chart on some specs for Jinma
> View attachment 43829
> 
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tractor Forum mobile app


Hi sierrasam93614 Could not get the chart you sent to open. I think that a 15/40 oil is the right one. The book that I have gives me a oil spec. GB5323-85 what ever that is.


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## sierrasam93614

From what I can find it's a 385 either Y, QC, NJ, or KM. I think the Y80 is the Perkins that came in later models.

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## sierrasam93614

All of them are 3 cylinder diesels I think made by yangdong

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## sierrasam93614

I try and send the chart as text tomorrow or maybe Monday itlist oils and capacities 

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## Chris129

sierrasam93614 said:


> From what I can find it's a 385 either Y, QC, NJ, or KM. I think the Y80 is the Perkins that came in later models.
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tractor Forum mobile app


Hi, I found a label on the engine that says that it is a Y385T diesel engine.


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## sierrasam93614

Made by Yangdong not sure the difference in Y385 and Y385T but most of the parts are common from what I know between any of the 385 series engines.

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## sierrasam93614

Don't remember if I posted yet the Y385, Y385T are 93.5 cubic inches 1.5 litre

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## Chris129

sierrasam93614 said:


> Don't remember if I posted yet the Y385, Y385T are 93.5 cubic inches 1.5 litre
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tractor Forum mobile app


Hi Sierrasam No this is the first time that I have seen it, Thanks. I was looking at my manual and calls for a QD1322 or QD1315A starter. The one on mine is a QD100C3, do you know what the difference is? The book I got don't mention the Y385T only Y380T. What do you think about that? Maybe the book I have is the wrong one.


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## sierrasam93614

That's starter shows for a Y385, Y380 both sounds like you might not have the right manual though maybe give circlegtractor a call or check out their website

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## sierrasam93614

Circle shows a QDJ1331A as the upgraded starter for Y385, Y385T and Y380 engines

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## sierrasam93614

Can't find either one of those starters they show QDJ1331A as a direct replacement for yours supposed to be an upgrade 

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## sierrasam93614

I still think your battery just isn't up to the task of spinning your diesel over specs show compression at 22 to 1 on a Y385 series engine 

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## Chris129

sierrasam93614 said:


> I still think your battery just isn't up to the task of spinning your diesel over specs show compression at 22 to 1 on a Y385 series engine
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tractor Forum mobile app


You might be right. I plan on getting a group 31 and put it in, as soon as it gets a little warmer. I am going to get a heater and install it also. Hope those two things will solve my problem. Question: Do you know how to remove the Electric instrument panel from one of these tractors? All my gauges don't work except the amp meter and it don't work very well. I have noticed that my head lights don't work either. I under stand that the instrument panel gets it power through the head light fuse but I checked that and the fuse looks good. If it isn't one thing its something else. Thanks for all your come backs


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## sierrasam93614

If it's like mine you have to remove some screws or nuts under the dash the switches snap in but break really easy when trying to remove

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## sierrasam93614

The ignition switch has 4 connectors on it one is for the hot, one for the switches and gauges one for the glow plugs and one for starter. All the Jinmas seem to use the same switch jk290a.

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## sierrasam93614

Here's the back of my switch and a simple wiring diagram, not the best.
















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## sierrasam93614

Here's the back of my switch and a simple wiring diagram, not the best.









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## sierrasam93614

Forum is temperamental about sending pictures

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## Chris129

sierrasam93614 said:


> Here's the back of my switch and a simple wiring diagram, not the best.
> View attachment 43857
> View attachment 43859
> 
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tractor Forum mobile app


*Thanks for the come back, this will help a lot*


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## tabaka45

I had the exact problem on my Farmtrac 435. Starter tested good on bench, worked if I jumped the solenoid. I replaced the ignition switch and the solenoid but that did not correct the problem. Someone mentioned installing a starter relay and that solved the problem. A relay is nothing more than a solenoid switch which delivers power directly from the battery to the starter. I think Deere an Caterpillar among others make them. I had an old ford solenoid (the ones that used to be attached to the firewall orwheel well) and that’s what I used. Seems that sometimes the voltage drops as it passes through the ignition system and the starter solenoid doesn’t get enough juice and just clicks like the battery is bad. Google “starter relay switch” and you should find information and diagram. I mounted my ford solenoid just above the starter. The ignition wire was connected to the ford solenoid rather than the starter solenoid. A wire was attached to the battery cable bolt where it attached to the starter solenoid and one post of the ford solenoid. Another wire went from the other post on the ford solenoid to the the screw on the starter solenoid where the ignition wire originally went. Works perfectly.


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## Chris129

tabaka45 said:


> I had the exact problem on my Farmtrac 435. Starter tested good on bench, worked if I jumped the solenoid. I replaced the ignition switch and the solenoid but that did not correct the problem. Someone mentioned installing a starter relay and that solved the problem. A relay is nothing more than a solenoid switch which delivers power directly from the battery to the starter. I think Deere an Caterpillar among others make them. I had an old ford solenoid (the ones that used to be attached to the firewall orwheel well) and that’s what I used. Seems that sometimes the voltage drops as it passes through the ignition system and the starter solenoid doesn’t get enough juice and just clicks like the battery is bad. Google “starter relay switch” and you should find information and diagram. I mounted my ford solenoid just above the starter. The ignition wire was connected to the ford solenoid rather than the starter solenoid. A wire was attached to the battery cable bolt where it attached to the starter solenoid and one post of the ford solenoid. Another wire went from the other post on the ford solenoid to the the screw on the starter solenoid where the ignition wire originally went. Works perfectly.


Hi Tabaka After reading your reply I think we are talking about two different type solenoids. Mine is mounted on top of the starter and when energized engages the fly wheel. I think the one your talking about is one that is mounted on the dash which means the your starter has b Bendix spring which engages the gear that turns the starter. My system is different.


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## sierrasam93614

Hows it working all ok

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## tabaka45

Mine is just like yours—standard starter with solenoid mounted on top. I think you are not getting enough power to the starter solenoid and it is not fully engaging. That is why it works perfectly when you jump it directly from the battery. For some reason power ( I think amperage primarily) is lost through the ignition circuit. It must be somewhat common since Deere, Caterpillar and others sell an add on starter relay.


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## Chris129

sierrasam93614 said:


> Hows it working all ok
> 
> Sent from my VS988 using Tractor Forum mobile app


Hi Sierrsam, Not to good. Bought me a group 31 battery 950 CCA and changed the oil (15/40). When I tried to start it all the starter would do is spin up. I don't think the solenoid is working now. Have you ever replace one?


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## sierrasam93614

Not one of these have replace many on chevy trucks same basic set up should attach to starter with 2 screws or bolts and one at the back. Just to to disconnect wires from it after removing negative from battery, then the screw in back that goes into starter, then screws or bolts where it goes into starter should slip right off just don't loose spring in case new one does not come with one.

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## sierrasam93614

that is for a delco remi style the Jinma is a little different shows from circle g tractor for about $56 should be pretty straight forward


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## Chris129

Hi guys, found out why my starter just spins when I try to start it. The clutch in the starter drive went south. Took it apart and found the starter drive unit (clutch) is bad. I have looked all over the internet for some starter parts, none there. I know I can get a new starter drive unit, but nobody has the horse shoe retainers I need (the ones I have broke when i removed them) and the little spacer that goes in at the front end of the starter. I guess I could get the snap rings at my local parts store, but the spacer is some else. Even the starter rebuild place here knows what one goes in. They rely don't want to work on it because it is Chinese. I guess I will buy a new one. Anybody know the difference between the QDJ1331A and the QDJ1332A? I under that the 1332 is flipped and rely don't fit, is that right?


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## sierrasam93614

The QDJ1331A shows as direct replacement they also have the starter drive listed

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## sierrasam93614

Circle g tractor also has a complete starter drive for QD100C3 which is I think what you said yours is $35.99 plus shipping

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## sierrasam93614

Their phone # in case you don't want to do online is
1-855-330-5272
615-315-5686
Plus their tech is really good and happy to help and answer any questions, also they don't gouge for shipping

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## Chris129

Sierrasam, Just a note to let you and everybody else, got the tractor started. Had to buy a new starter because circle G tractors did not have the snap rings and few other items I needed to just R&R the starter drive. I am going to keep on trying to find the snap rings and the other things I need. Thank you for all your help. Chris
PS Now if I could get my gauges to work I would be a happy person.


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