# Batteries and pto clutches.



## SHeiserman (Nov 23, 2004)

Are batteries any good after they freeze? Had two 5 month old 950cca Champion batteries freeze early in the week. Never had a battery freeze before, and the coldest it got was -15, so they should have been ok. The charging system in both trucks tested ok, so that isn't the problem either. Junk batteries?

My next question would be about pto clutches. Am I doing any major damage to a pto clutch that slowly spins (disengaged) with a snowblower hooked to it? I can stop it by hand, so it's not too bad yet. Is putting a load on it going to make it much worse?


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## LPBOLENS (Dec 20, 2004)

Freezing a battery frequently (usually) warps the plates. If severe enough, the plates may touch and thus short out the battery. If the long sides of the battery bulge out, the freezing was fairly severe. In sum, typically, freezing turns batteries into door stops.

Your local battery supplier or full service auto facility can test a (thawed) battery to find out if it will accept a charge, operate under a load test, and if it is still fully functional.


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## Chipmaker (Sep 16, 2003)

Can't say if its fact or not, but have always been told a battery in good shape and fuly charged should not freeze........

Even in the early years I lived up north I never seem to recall seeing a frozen battery, even in a junk yard full of cars, which I used to patronize all the time for parts to keep my klunkers running......


I used have have a JD317, and during the winter months I would remove the deck, so it would not get hung up in the woods when I pulled logs etc out. It too would sort of run even though no power was applied to it. Its just the forces of the spinning inner portion causing the outer driven portion to rotate due to inertia or internal frictional force. Mine used to make sort of a scratcy sound, and all I did was put a rubber band around it to one of ther adjustment studs and it provided sufficient friction to hold it still. It will not hurt anything though just spinning.


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## caseman-d (Nov 29, 2003)

I think alot depends on the battery. I have had some freeze and they weren't worth a penny afterwards. I have had some that would make a good summer battery as long as you didn't crank to long. I would take a frozen battery into a cool place to let it thaw slowly and once thawed try to put a slow charge into it. If you try to thaw it out to fast or try to charge it up while frozen it may explode on you.

On the pto problem I would like to say NEVER GRAB A HOLD OF A TURNING SHAFT WITH YOUR HANDS!!!!. Since the pto is still turning in the shut off position I take it may be out of adustment or the pto brake is worn. As far as the wear while engaged as long as it doesn't slip things should be ok. I'm not sure what tractor you are referring to but I would sure get it adjusted right before you try to stop it by and and find out you don't have any hands. A lot of times a pto may turn slowly with nothing attached to it, since you have something attached to it and it still turns tells me the brake is starting to fail.

Anytime you want to make me boil just tell me about stupid things like grabing turning pto's., jumping off moving tractor, ridinging in loader buckets, and yes I've done them all and I still have all my ody parts, but I know several people that aren't as lucky as I was. Next time someone wants to do a unsafe act ask themselves this question. What could the results be if I did this????
caseman-d


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## SHeiserman (Nov 23, 2004)

Thanks guys, sounds to me like the batteries are pretty much toast. Thawed them out, filled them back up with water (distilled), and put them on 2 amp charge, so I guess time will tell.

Hey caseman-d, I didn't grab a pto shaft. I grabbed the flat plate directly in the middle of the snowblower where the flightings meet. Just "slapping" that plate with the palm of your hand is enough to slow it down to where you can grab it. It's on the 830, so you can idle it down to almost nothing. There's enough leverage out there to stop it(no gloves, no rings) and actually turn it backwards, and that's where I get my question. We had the 830on an 8"-60' auger and it wouldn't spin unless engaged. I'm thinking there's less load with the snowblower so it turns a little. When I open the tractor up (pto disengaged), it doesn't seem to spin any faster. The pto will engage and stay engaged also. Appreciate all the input.

While we are on the topic of safety, here's a few you didn't mention. 1) starting the 830 with a scredriver, and 2) standing directly in front of a rear tire giving a 12 year old driving tips. A couple winters ago, I had trouble with the starter/solenoid in cold weather. I took to using a screwdriver to get it started. One morning I did this as usual and it fires up and spits and sputters a bit. When it cleared up and got enough engine speed...... away it went. Corn crib was just a few feet away and that's all the further it got. The convertor saved some damage on that one. Several safety issues there. I now start it with a key, from the seat, in neutral, and in the start position. 
The second deal was a bit different. Did a few laps around the barn with my 12 year old as he said he wanted to learn how to run it. So I get off the tractor. He was in the seat the whole time, and I didn't have him take it out of gear. He had his foot on the clutch and I was explaining to him if he got scared to push in the clutch and push the throttle forward till it stopped. While I was saying that, he gets bored and takes his foot off the clutch. 3rd gear, high side and c-o-m saved the day, it didn't move at slow idle. That hasn't happened again either. Sorry to ramble on so long.


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## Michael (Sep 16, 2003)

My experience as a vehicle mechanic is that a frozen battery has a dead cell (othrwise time to take it and get a new one and trade the old battery in). for some reason the Exide (Champion) batteries are more known to auto mech. in the northern latitudes for doing this and they are a junk battery. What I would do is check the date code on the side and take it back if it is still under warranty. Most batteries have a sticker on the end that is something like a letter and number. The letter is something like A=Jan. B=Feb. and so on, the number will either be a single digit or a 2 digit number and it relates to the year made 99 is 1999, 00 is 2000 and so on. 

As for the pto turning even with the pto disengaged it is a normal function of the gear. I do not understand it but every tractor I have seen in the last few years have all done it a little or a lot. My Kubota does it and so does my neighbors old Massey Ferguson.


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## SHeiserman (Nov 23, 2004)

I hear you. I ordinarilly don't put my hand into objects in motion, but it had my curiosity (yes, I know what that did to the cat). Like the picture. I think a front mounted snowblower would be the way to go, but I'll make do with what is at hand.


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## Don L. (Nov 6, 2004)

*pto spin*

Your pto plates are a bit warped. Very very common. Your 830 Comfort King has a pto brake. Don't remember if it adjusts , and I can't find my repair manual.
If you can adj it , it will stop the pto, this sounds good, but in turn wear the friction plates to do it. There are 4 drives and 5 driven plates, and 5 seperation springs in the pto. The drives run all the time, against the loose driven untill clamped up. I believe Case does not service these parts any more. 
Don L.
spam town :bigusa: :beer: :night:


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## caseman-d (Nov 29, 2003)

Thans Don for the informtion.
caseman-d


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## SHeiserman (Nov 23, 2004)

Hey Don. Right after I got my owner's manual, I followed those directions and tried to adjust it through the side cover. It didn't seem to help. From the replies, sounds like it's nothing to worry about. Say, got a set of 18.4-38's in decent shape? How much would something like that set my wife back?


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