# Diesel Fuel in Engine Oil



## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

!989 Ford 6610. Brought tractor home after re-manufactured long block engine was installed. Ran tractor with moderate to heavy load off and on for about 9 hours. Ran very good, good power. Slight blow-by initially and then blow-by went to practically none. I assume this was run in of the rings. No smoke at all unless under load, then got slight amount of dark smoke. I thought every thing was great until I found the engine oil level rising on the dipstick. I had checked oil a few times along during the 9 hour run. The first couple times I checked the oil I thought it was rising a bit but wrote it off as the tractor not being completely level. The oil running off the dipstick didn't appear to be diluted. I brought the tractor to my shop and got it leveled up and it was clear the oil level was higher than before. I pulled an oil sample for analysis. The analysis showed 8% fuel. It also showed a chromium level of 16 PPM. From metal parts running in or excessive wear due to diluted oil, or some of both? I changed the oil and filter and have not run it. There was no oil level rise with the old engine. The old injectors had less than 100 hours on them so took I took them to the ignition shop, they cleaned, tested and set them So we re-used the old injectors. The old injector pump had no issues on the old engine so we re-used it as well. This engine has no fuel lift pump. It does have the power steering pump and the hydraulic pumped attached to the block and driven by the engine. The steering pump uses motor oil. And as stated the oil analysis said fuel dilution. Unless I'm missing something, that leaves two places the fuel dilution is coming from. The injector pump shaft seal or an injector problem. What would happen if the leak off line back to the fuel tank were plugged. How much oil dilution should I expect before rings run in? Surely not 8%. I would appreciate advice on how I should proceed here. As you can imagine, I am sick to my stomach over this.

Thanks
Wayne


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

If it were an injector going bad, it would have been black smoking if it dumped that much fuel into the oil..
There are 3 different pumps for the 6610..
DPA, DP200 or a SIMMS INLINE..
If it’s a DPA, it’s just a simple matter of pulling it off and pressure testing it thru THE RETURN.. and dunking the front in a bucket and look for bubbles..
The DP200 is a bit more complicated to take off.. u have to time it beforehand..
The SIMMS won’t leak into the engine.
Good luck.


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

thepumpguysc said:


> If it were an injector going bad, it would have been black smoking if it dumped that much fuel into the oil..
> There are 3 different pumps for the 6610..
> DPA, DP200 or a SIMMS INLINE..
> If it’s a DPA, it’s just a simple matter of pulling it off and pressure testing it thru THE RETURN.. and dunking the front in a bucket and look for bubbles..
> ...


There was some dark smoke not gray under load. None visible at no load. The tag on the pump was painted over by the previous owner. I can't tell if it is stamped or not. It should be but I'm a bit leery about wire brushing it off. I guess I could try paint thinner. However it has all four injector lines coming off the rear of the pump. Definitely not inline. I have attached pictures. Thanks "thepumpguysc"


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

That’s a DP200.. it’s driven by a gear on the pumps tapered shaft.
U have to go thru the front to access the pump drive..
The pumps return connector is a 1 way valve.. it’ll let fuel out of the pump but won’t let back pressure in..
So in order to pressure test it, U MUST remove the connector..it’s the tall connector at the front of the pump..
U might be able to test it while the pump is on the engine.??
Remove the front cover in front of the pump.. then remove the tall connector and put a small amount of air into the connector hole and see if there’s fuel flowing in the front..
If u can’t tell, I guess you’ll have to remove the pump..


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

thepumpguysc said:


> That’s a DP200.. it’s driven by a gear on the pumps tapered shaft.
> U have to go thru the front to access the pump drive..
> The pumps return connector is a 1 way valve.. it’ll let fuel out of the pump but won’t let back pressure in..
> So in order to pressure test it, U MUST remove the connector..it’s the tall connector at the front of the pump..
> ...


Gotcha. I know this is a high pressure pump but is 100 PSI compressed air to high on the return side? If I have to remove the pump, what do I need to do about the timing? Thanks "the pumpguysc"


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

U only wanna put NO MORE THAN 5 psi.!!
You’ll hafta remove the cover in front of the pump and snap a picture and send it to me.. I’ll b able to tell u then..
U REALLY NEED TO GET A MANUAL..


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

thepumpguysc said:


> U only wanna put NO MORE THAN 5 psi.!!
> You’ll hafta remove the cover in front of the pump and snap a picture and send it to me.. I’ll b able to tell u then..
> U REALLY NEED TO GET A MANUAL..


I'll get the cover off Monday and send you a pic. Do you have a website link where I can get a shop manual? Thanks


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

There might b one here.??
Go to “forums”.. scroll till u get to:
“Resource mngr” and click on TRACTORS..
Scroll till u see something u like..


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

I have several Ford manuals. But none that would apply to your tractor. Sorry.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Hacke just loaded it..
Thanks Hacke.


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

thepumpguysc said:


> Hacke just loaded it..
> Thanks Hacke.


Thanks Hacke and PumpGuy ! ! I'll post what I find.


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## Levi F (9 mo ago)

Wayne Locke said:


> !989 Ford 6610. Brought tractor home after re-manufactured long block engine was installed. Ran tractor with moderate to heavy load off and on for about 9 hours. Ran very good, good power. Slight blow-by initially and then blow-by went to practically none. I assume this was run in of the rings. No smoke at all unless under load, then got slight amount of dark smoke. I thought every thing was great until I found the engine oil level rising on the dipstick. I had checked oil a few times along during the 9 hour run. The first couple times I checked the oil I thought it was rising a bit but wrote it off as the tractor not being completely level. The oil running off the dipstick didn't appear to be diluted. I brought the tractor to my shop and got it leveled up and it was clear the oil level was higher than before. I pulled an oil sample for analysis. The analysis showed 8% fuel. It also showed a chromium level of 16 PPM. From metal parts running in or excessive wear due to diluted oil, or some of both? I changed the oil and filter and have not run it. There was no oil level rise with the old engine. The old injectors had less than 100 hours on them so took I took them to the ignition shop, they cleaned, tested and set them So we re-used the old injectors. The old injector pump had no issues on the old engine so we re-used it as well. This engine has no fuel lift pump. It does have the power steering pump and the hydraulic pumped attached to the block and driven by the engine. The steering pump uses motor oil. And as stated the oil analysis said fuel dilution. Unless I'm missing something, that leaves two places the fuel dilution is coming from. The injector pump shaft seal or an injector problem. What would happen if the leak off line back to the fuel tank were plugged. How much oil dilution should I expect before rings run in? Surely not 8%. I would appreciate advice on how I should proceed here. As you can imagine, I am sick to my stomach over this.
> 
> Thanks
> Wayne


We had the same problem on a Ford 7740 and the culprit was fuel leaking in from the injector pump shaft seal. We sent the pump away to get rebuilt all the way around and the problem was fixed as well as better cold starting conditions.


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Levi F said:


> We had the same problem on a Ford 7740 and the culprit was fuel leaking in from the injector pump shaft seal. We sent the pump away to get rebuilt all the way around and the problem was fixed as well as better cold starting conditions.


The pump laid around dry for weeks while waiting on the new engine. And the stress on the shaft and seal while removing it from the old engine and installing on the new engine. It wouldn't be surprising at all to find it leaking. My intention is to get it off this week. I looked at it a bit today trying to get a game plan together to get it off. I'm gonna attempt to put a little air on the pump return while it's still on the tractor as "thepumpguycs" described and see If I can confirm it is leaking before I remove it. It looks like I'll have to remove the bottom radiator hose just to get the front cover off. May have to remove the sheet metal and the radiator to get the gear pulled off. I"m worried about dropping the nut or woodruff key down in the engine. I'l have to stuff some clean rags down in there I guess. I'll post what I find. Thanks Levi.


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

With tremendous help from The Pump Guy, I believe we are fairly certain that the injector pump is not leaking at the shaft seal. I'm looking for advice on what to check next. Thanks


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## Levi F (9 mo ago)

Wayne Locke said:


> With tremendous help from The Pump Guy, I believe we are fairly certain that the injector pump is not leaking at the shaft seal. I'm looking for advice on what to check next. Thanks


Hey I’m sorry you still didn’t find the issue. Hope you the best of luck. Sorry again


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Levi F said:


> Hey I’m sorry you still didn’t find the issue. Hope you the best of luck. Sorry again


Thanks. Levi


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Other things I should mention: This engine does not have a fuel lift pump. I called the company that did the engine oil analysis. The man I talked to assured me it was fuel, but The Pump Guy and me are thinking the hydraulic pump could be leaking into the engine. I did add some hydraulic fluid after the start up of the new engine but that was after losing some fluid when changing both the hydraulic filters. So I don't have a good feel if I'm losing hydraulic fluid or not. Is there a way for me to test the oil at home to tell if its hydraulic fluid in the oil and not diesel?


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

There is:: but it’s a “homemade test”..
It has to do w a paper towel and a drop or 2 of the suspects..
Don’t hold me to this cuz I’m just going by memory..
If it’s hydro oil, it will sit on top of the towel..
If it’s fuel, it’ll get soaked up by the towel..
U can search it.. I’m just going on memory..
Good luck


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Wayne Locke said:


> Other things I should mention: This engine does not have a fuel lift pump. I called the company that did the engine oil analysis. The man I talked to assured me it was fuel, but The Pump Guy and me are thinking the hydraulic pump could be leaking into the engine. I did add some hydraulic fluid after the start up of the new engine but that was after losing some fluid when changing both the hydraulic filters. So I don't have a good feel if I'm losing hydraulic fluid or not. Is there a way for me to test the oil at home to tell if its hydraulic fluid in the oil and not diesel?



The only way that I can think of to check to see if it is diesel fuel or hydraulic fluid is the old dye and UV light test.........I have done this once in the past......They way I did it is to add red dye, unless you are running red dyed off road diesel fuel already, to the hydraulic fluid then run the tractor for about 30 minutes to an hour using the hydraulics then check the fluid on the oil dipstick under a UV or black light......If it glows or shows any red then that is the problem......


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

thepumpguysc said:


> There is:: but it’s a “homemade test”..
> It has to do w a paper towel and a drop or 2 of the suspects..
> Don’t hold me to this cuz I’m just going by memory..
> If it’s hydro oil, it will sit on top of the towel..
> ...


Thanks Pump Guy.. I'll try to find that


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

unsquidly said:


> The only way that I can think of to check to see if it is diesel fuel or hydraulic fluid is the old dye and UV light test.........I have done this once in the past......They way I did it is to add red dye, unless you are running red dyed off road diesel fuel already, to the hydraulic fluid then run the tractor for about 30 minutes to an hour using the hydraulics then check the fluid on the oil dipstick under a UV or black light......If it glows or shows any red then that is the problem......


I'm running off road diesel with the red dye.


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Wayne Locke said:


> I'm running off road diesel with the red dye.



Then that makes it easy.......Get something like this and check your oil dipstick in a dark room and see if you have any red dye in the oil.......If not, you have your answer.....If so, you also have your answer......




Amazon.com


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

The fuel dye is a fantastic idea..


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

unsquidly said:


> Then that makes it easy.......Get something like this and check your oil dipstick in a dark room and see if you have any red dye in the oil.......If not, you have your answer.....If so, you also have your answer......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The light will be here next Tuesday. I changed the oil and filter so I'll have to run it a bit until I see the level going up. I'll post what I find. Thanks


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

thepumpguysc said:


> The fuel dye is a fantastic idea..



Thank you.................I honestly feel honored that this came from you since I have seen the amount of knowledge that you have.........


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

After changing the engine oil and filter, I ran the tractor yesterday for three hours and saw little or no oil level rise. This run I saw more gray smoke than black. Opposite of the first 9 hour run. No excessive smoke either run but more this recent run than the first. Then I did several tests under a UV light. First was with the engine oil dipstick. I saw an aqua color right away. thinking this was red dye off road diesel fuel in the oil.. Then I decided to do some additional tests to confirm this. Then I did a UV test on the black top of a plastic drum with drops of fresh diesel fuel, engine oil from the tractor and fresh engine oil. I saw three shades of aqua. Then I repeated that test. Then I took four plastic cups with samples of fresh oil, tractor oil, fresh diesel and fresh hydraulic fluid. I saw four shades of aqua looking into the cups from the top and through the sides.Then I put a drop of all the four fluids on a piece of card board. Again all four fluids showed some shade of aqua. All tests of all fluids showed some shade of aqua/blue. The hydraulic fluid was a bright aqua, the fresh diesel was a shade toward aqua/blue, the fresh oil was blue and the tractor oil was a darker shade of blue. I'm more confused now than ever. I think I will run the tractor until I'm sure the oil level is rising and repeat the tests. I don't expect to see anything different though. All advice here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Wayne Locke said:


> After changing the engine oil and filter, I ran the tractor yesterday for three hours and saw little or no oil level rise. This run I saw more gray smoke than black. Opposite of the first 9 hour run. No excessive smoke either run but more this recent run than the first. Then I did several tests under a UV light. First was with the engine oil dipstick. I saw an aqua color right away. thinking this was red dye off road diesel fuel in the oil.. Then I decided to do some additional tests to confirm this. Then I did a UV test on the black top of a plastic drum with drops of fresh diesel fuel, engine oil from the tractor and fresh engine oil. I saw three shades of aqua. Then I repeated that test. Then I took four plastic cups with samples of fresh oil, tractor oil, fresh diesel and fresh hydraulic fluid. I saw four shades of aqua looking into the cups from the top and through the sides.Then I put a drop of all the four fluids on a piece of card board. Again all four fluids showed some shade of aqua. All tests of all fluids showed some shade of aqua/blue. The hydraulic fluid was a bright aqua, the fresh diesel was a shade toward aqua/blue, the fresh oil was blue and the tractor oil was a darker shade of blue. I'm more confused now than ever. I think I will run the tractor until I'm sure the oil level is rising and repeat the tests. I don't expect to see anything different though. All advice here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks



Try adding some green or blue dye or any color beside red to a sample of fresh engine oil, hydraulic fluid and diesel fuel and see what color you get. I am assuming that you will get something different then a shade of aqua. Then you have a baseline of what colors do what in the to the different fluids and you can continue testing by adding a different color dye to the hydraulic fluid in the tractor. Then you can tell what is really in the engine oil in your tractor.....Make sense?


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

unsquidly said:


> Try adding some green or blue dye or any color beside red to a sample of fresh engine oil, hydraulic fluid and diesel fuel and see what color you get. I am assuming that you will get something different then a shade of aqua. Then you have a baseline of what colors do what in the to the different fluids and you can continue testing by adding a different color dye to the hydraulic fluid in the tractor. Then you can tell what is really in the engine oil in your tractor.....Make sense?


Will do unsquidly. What kind of dye should I buy? Thanks


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Wayne Locke said:


> Will do unsquidly. What kind of dye should I buy? Thanks


Will regular food coloring be ok?


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Ran tractor about five hours Saturday. Fairly certain had no oil rise or fall either. Oil viscocity seems to be fairly close to same as fresh oil. No scientific test but just watching oil drip off dipstick. All this is good news, but this makes troubleshooting even more difficult. Maybe it will never come back. Fingers crossed. Gonna run it some more if I can afford to but diesel fuel. I'm also going to do the different color dye tests as unsquidly described above. Thanks to all for your help. I'll post any further findings.


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Wayne Locke said:


> Will regular food coloring be ok?


Can't use regular food dye since it is water based.....Will not mix and give a good reading......The few times that I have done it, I used colored lamp oil......Sorry, I should have passed this vital piece of information along......

Something like this.......










Amazon.com: Lamplight 60012 Ultra-Pure Lamp Oil, 32-Ounce, Red : Home & Kitchen


Buy Lamplight 60012 Ultra-Pure Lamp Oil, 32-Ounce, Red: Oil Lamps - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com






I am thinking candle dye would also work......Just needs to be something petroleum based so it will mix in.......


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

unsquidly said:


> Can't use regular food dye since it is water based.....Will not mix and give a good reading......The few times that I have done it, I used colored lamp oil......Sorry, I should have passed this vital piece of information along......
> 
> Something like this.......
> 
> ...


Thanks unsquidly


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Wayne Locke said:


> Thanks unsquidly



Wayne, 
I hope that I have not caused you more work then you should have done on this and that you don't feel like I was having you chase your tail on this........Sorry once again that I left out this part of the information......Also, most of the older folks on here know that I am only on here 2 or 3 nights a week so that is why it takes me a few days to respond to you on stuff......Usually only on here Monday and Thursday nights since that is the only two nights I am on the road away from home.....


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

unsquidly said:


> Wayne,
> I hope that I have not caused you more work then you should have done on this and that you don't feel like I was having you chase your tail on this........Sorry once again that I left out this part of the information......Also, most of the older folks on here know that I am only on here 2 or 3 nights a week so that is why it takes me a few days to respond to you on stuff......Usually only on here Monday and Thursday nights since that is the only two nights I am on the road away from home.....


Oh Lord no "unsquidly" don't even think of apologizing to me. I understand completely. I understand troubleshooting and how difficult it can be. I also understand how busy you and others helping here are. And the time you all take from your busy lives to help the unknowing like me. Its appreciated tremendously. Thanks again to you, the "pumpguy" and all others for your help. With all of yalls help I'm sure we will get to the solution of my problem. Thanks again to you all.


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