# 8N oil Filter



## Fordfarm (Dec 27, 2005)

Anyone know the difference between the Fram C3 and Fram C3P oil filters? Which one is better?


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

I am not sure but I don't think I would use a Fram filter on anything I seriously cared about. In my experience, Fram filters are poorly made at best. Unless that is the only filter you can find; I would see if I could find another brand filter.


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## jaso22 (Mar 23, 2006)

*found this on Ebay*

I was curious... I found this guy on Ebay. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3870580016&category=46555


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## Fordfarm (Dec 27, 2005)

*Re: found this on Ebay*



> _Originally posted by jaso22 _
> *I was curious... I found this guy on Ebay.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3870580016&category=46555 *


That one would be an equivelent to a C3P. I was just curious as to what others used. I bought a NAPA "Gold" filter but only because it was the only one in town. 

On another note - I found out why NAPA calls them "Gold" filters - they must think they are made outta gold! $10.05 for a stupid oil filter! That's the main reason I stay out of NAPA if I possibly can!


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## glenn27 (Feb 7, 2006)

*oil filters*

Napa, (and a lot of other brands) are made by WIX, mostly in gastonia, N.Carolina...napa has three "grades"--gold, Silver, and plain consumer white....
I saw a study a gentleman did last year on oil filters, and a comparison chart,---I was impressed---I will try to locate it/ and pull it up.....

Bottom line was the Delco GM filter produced more Filtering capacity ( may not be the right wording) then most compretable brands.......


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

FF, the "P" version has a heavily pleated-fold type fabric filtering and there is better for overall filtration. But I agree with Chief and I really don't care for Fram's stuff.

The Fram filter is just lacking in the amount of filtration media (area) and the material used is poor. If you only run your tractor a couple hours a year and change your oil every year, they're just fine but for someone who works their tractors hard, I want that extra filtration. They are notorious for having complete filter failures and simply junk alot of the time.

At the end of the day, routine oil and filter changes are the most important thing, but I would rather run the Napa Gold than risk a problem with the Fram. If getting the Fram, get the P version.

Hope this helps.
Andy


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## Fordfarm (Dec 27, 2005)

I've used Fram in EVERYTHING for YEARS! Never had a problem! 
I have 340,000+ on my 97 F-150, another 200,000+ on a 79 F-150, and LOTS of hours on my tractors! I use nothing but Walmart Super-Tech oils and Fram! You guys have had bad experiences? :question:


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

While this is not a blast FRAM session, I will let the truth speak for itself....

The most important lesson is routine maintenance --- i.e. --- oil changes and filter changes. Just saying that quality for quality (walmart oil excluded --- excellent choice!!!) the Fram filter line has decreased tremendously with their filter line. 

Some Notes:

The Fram Extra Guard filter cartridge has a small outside diameter with a rather low filter element surface area (193 sqin), and features cardboard end caps that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals the rough metal backplate to the cardboard end cap and easily leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. If you have a noisy valve train at startup, this filter is likely the cause. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak. The backplate has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I took one apart about 2 years ago to confirm this myself. 

The Tough Guard seem to be much better constructed overall and 
has a drastically improved filter element. Maybe you have just been lucky with your filter use?

Here is an email from a production engineer from Allied Signal:

I worked for two years as the oil-filter production line engineer in
an Allied-Signal FRAM facility and I can confirm every bad thing you
have said about FRAM automotive filters. That's from the horse's
mouth, as it were.

I'm also a quality engineer and can confirm that FRAM applies no
quality control whatsoever to any of the characteristics for which we
buy oil filters. I frequently saw filter designs which were barely
capable of meeting J806. Many of FRAM's designs will block and go to
bypass after trying to filter very little contamination. There were
often leakage paths at the paper end discs when these were not
properly centered on the elements. Some designs had the pleats so
tightly packed against the center tube that they would block off in no
time. I had discovered that the FRAM HP1 that I had been buying for
about $20 Cdn was EXACTLY the same as a PH8 inside - the only
difference being a heavier can - no advantages in flow capacity. The
paper filtration media was of apparently poor quality and the process
of curing the paper resin was very inconsistent - elements would range
from visibly burnt to white. FRAM's marketers admitted that there was
just about no way the public could ever prove that an oil filter
contributed, or did not prevent, engine damage. The only thing FRAM
tested for was can burst strength. Another problem that they have from
time to time is in threading the filter base - often there are strands
of metal left behind on a poorly formed thread.

I have not used a FRAM filter since I started working there. Their
claims are entirely and completely marketing bull****.

If people really want to protect their engines, a good air filter is
vital (which excludes FRAM from that list as well) and a combination of one depth and one full-flow hydraulic filter, together in parallel, will do the job of filtration to perfection.


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## Fordfarm (Dec 27, 2005)

It's odd - the ONLY time I have EVER had an oil related problem is when I ran Valvoline oil and a NAPA filter!


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## sdowney717 (24 d ago)

Chris said:


> FF, the "P" version has a heavily pleated-fold type fabric filtering and there is better for overall filtration. But I agree with Chief and I really don't care for Fram's stuff.
> 
> The Fram filter is just lacking in the amount of filtration media (area) and the material used is poor. If you only run your tractor a couple hours a year and change your oil every year, they're just fine but for someone who works their tractors hard, I want that extra filtration. They are notorious for having complete filter failures and simply junk alot of the time.
> 
> ...


Maybe it does today, but 10 years and more ago, for a C3P it stood for PLATE. As in stacked plates of filter material.
They were a true 2 micron bypass filter, all the oil flowed thru stacked compressed cardboard plates, the plates sat in the filter horizontally.

The C3, was always your typical filter with vertical pleats of paper and filters to 30 microns. I know a lot about them as I use these on my old 1970 Palmer marine boat engines. The new C3P is a poor performing imitation of what it once was. Who knows why they no longer make it like they did, likely to save money and figured few would know better.

Today a diesel engine can use a full dual flow filter, it has 2 types of filtering in one housing. The BD 7317 has for its extra good filtering a 5 micron stacked plate setup in the bottom 1/3 of the filter. The upper filter is a typical 20 micron vertical pleated filter paper. The dual flow splits the oil stream in the filter, 15% runs to the stacked plate 5 micron side, the 85% flows thru the standard filter, and all oil flows back to the bearings.

A bypass filter sends the return back to the oil sump.


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## sdowney717 (24 d ago)

Picture of the old style Fram C3P showing the stacked horizontal plates, which AFAIK, no one makes for the application anymore. Sad!


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