# Diesel Engine White Smoke on Cold Start.



## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

I have a 1989 Ford 6610 tractor. I get white/light gray exhaust smoke only on a cold start. The smoke clears after it runs for a few minutes. Just started doing this suddenly one day. It is better after running two tanks of fuel through it with power service diesel kleen added. At the worst point, it seemed to be skipping for the first 30 seconds or so. Advice would be appreciated.


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Wayne Locke said:


> I have a 1989 Ford 6610 tractor. I get white/light gray exhaust smoke only on a cold start. The smoke clears after it runs for a few minutes. Just started doing this suddenly one day. It is better after running two tanks of fuel through it with power service diesel kleen added. At the worst point, it seemed to be skipping for the first 30 seconds or so. Advice would be appreciated.


Really could use some help on this. Problem has got worse.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Either a faulty injector or a blown head gasket. You getting fuel in the oil or dropping coolant? If so, it's a head gasket. If not it's an injector. How many hours on the engine? Injectors do wear out but are rebuildable.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

How about a cold cylinder.??
Do u have glow plugs.??
Are they working.??


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

Yeah, I wouldn’t jump to a head gasket or injector quite yet. White smoke is quite common when starting a cold engine. The colder it is, the more white smoke.

Power Service doesn’t actually have a lot of additive in it. Instead try Opti-lube boost or Amsoil Cetane Boost - they’re both 90%+ 2EHN - then dose the fuel at 250:1 fuel:cetane boost. Then try starting up on a day that is well above freezing and see if the white smoke clears in about 1 minute. If that clears things up, than it’s probably any combination of glowplugs, fuel quality, and normal engine wear.


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Not gaining or losing any coolant. Have a little oil loss if I run it hard for several hours. Do have some blow by. More than I would like. I'm in south Ga. so no glow plugs needed. It was about 75 degrees last time I cranked it. I have new injectors ordered. I will post the results. Thanks for your help.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

My point is, it’s probably just cold cyl.. JUST TRY to activate the glow plugs for 15 Mississippi’s,,THEN crank it and see if it white smokes.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

What fuel system is on that engine..?
(Inj. pump)


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

The only glow plug on this tractor is one in the air intake manifold. I have tried heating it for a couple minutes then start tractor but it made no difference in the smoking. I should have mentioned this to begin with but it sounds like it is missing on one cylinder on cold start. The missing stops when the smoke stops. Tractor runs good after that. Also, if it sits even for an hour or so it still has some smoke and missing on start up, just less of it


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Yup.. it sure sounds like an injector.
Good luck


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Any news yet.??


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

thepumpguysc said:


> Any news yet.??


Thanks for your help. I ordered four injectors and recieved two. Two on back order. Awaiting the other two before I start replacing them. I'm anxious to see if this fixes the problem. I sure hope it does.


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## Tx Jim (Jul 28, 2020)

How long since this tractor was put to work getting coolant to operating temp for any length of time?


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Tx Jim said:


> How long since this tractor was put to work getting coolant to operating temp for any length of time?


About a week ago. For probably two hours. Same smoking on next start-up.


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Well after $330 and a lot of work getting one stuck injector out, new injectors didn't fix the problem. After installing the new injectors, I ran it until it was good and hot. let it sit over night. On cold crank next day got the same smoking as before. Could it be oil leaking from the head down into the cylinder ?


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## Tx Jim (Jul 28, 2020)

When engine is cold remove rad cap.start engine then look in rad neck at coolant to determine if you see any tiny bubbles.


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Tx Jim said:


> When engine is cold remove rad cap.start engine then look in rad neck at coolant to determine if you see any tiny bubbles.


Thanks Tx Jim. I will do that.. Did that exercise a few months back and had no bubbling that I could see. I will do it again and try to post some video of it.


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

The blow by gets worse as the engine gets to operating temperature not better. Does that rule out excessive ring/piston wear on one or more cylinders that gets better as the engine heats up? Could it be the leak off lines not draining to the fuel tank? I replaced the brittle leak off lines a few months ago because one was leaking. Are all four banjo bolts the same? I removed them when I replaced the lines and replaced the copper seals because one was leaking. I think I did them one at a time so not to mix them up but can't remember for certain. The leak off line at the front is piped back to the injector pump. What is that for? 

I bought this tractor about 18 months ago. Here is the history on this tractor since I bought it. To the best of my recollection. Which isn't great anymore. This list is not necessarily in chronological order. And yes, some of the items are definitely not related to my current issue.

1989 year model with about 3800 hours. Per the hour meter anyway.
There was almost no smoking on cold startup and none there after except when accelerating or under short period heavy loading. What I would call normal.
There was very little blow by.
Changed engine oil and filter.
Drained, flushed and refilled with new coolant.
Installed thermostat since there was not one in there at all. So engine running higher but normal temperature. This may have been a mistake as I look back on it.
Replaced muffler since it was bent at inlet pipe, had been brazed but still had small leak.
Replaced radiator because it was leaking.
Replaced radiator hoses
Replaced fan belt
replaced inner and outer air filters.
Replaced injector leak off lines.
Replaced injector banjo bolts copper seals.
Replaced injectors
Unwired and unpiped intake manifold glow plug.
Replaced power steering cylinder.
Replaced all four steering ball joints.
Removed remote hydraulics because the connectors were leaking. Plugged at the lift cover.


Added some Lucas oil treatment when the blow by started getting worse
Started adding Diesel Kleen + Cetane boost.
I believe the smoking on cold startup started around the time I replaced the leak off lines and banjo bolts seals. Not certain. May not be related to my issue.
Yes I know, I should have kept notes with dates. Especially since my memory is not so good as I get older.

Thanks again for all your help!


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Wayne Locke said:


> The blow by gets worse as the engine gets to operating temperature not better. Does that rule out excessive ring/piston wear on one or more cylinders that gets better as the engine heats up? Could it be the leak off lines not draining to the fuel tank? I replaced the brittle leak off lines a few months ago because one was leaking. Are all four banjo bolts the same? I removed them when I replaced the lines and replaced the copper seals because one was leaking. I think I did them one at a time so not to mix them up but can't remember for certain. The leak off line at the front is piped back to the injector pump. What is that for?
> 
> I bought this tractor about 18 months ago. Here is the history on this tractor since I bought it. To the best of my recollection. Which isn't great anymore. This list is not necessarily in chronological order. And yes, some of the items are definitely not related to my current issue.
> 
> ...


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Bad injector and burned a hole in the #1 piston. Does this 1989 Ford 6610 engine have wet or dry sleeves or no sleeves? Best case scenario per local diesel shop is wet sleeve they can press out and replace. Anyone have a ball park cost for rebuild on this engine?


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## Tx Jim (Jul 28, 2020)

I know how much my JD 4255 engine costs for pistons/wet liners/brgs($8K). It also was a 6 cylinder engine vs 4 cylinder. Did you remove cylinder head for visual inspection or perform a compression test? Hole in piston should cause noticeable miss at any engine operating temperature/rpm.


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## Tx Jim (Jul 28, 2020)

6610 has a parent bore block with no sleeves/liners from the factory.








New Holland 6610 - 4 CYL AG TRACTOR 10 SERIES(01/81 - 12/93) Parts


New Holland 6610 - 4 CYL AG TRACTOR 10 SERIES(01/81 - 12/93) Parts



www.messicks.com


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Tx Jim said:


> I know how much my JD 4255 engine costs for pistons/wet liners/brgs($8K). It also was a 6 cylinder engine vs 4 cylinder. Did you remove cylinder head for visual inspection or perform a compression test? Hole in piston should cause noticeable miss at any engine operating temperature/rpm.


...and a huge amount of blow by too.


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## Douglas Lee (Apr 20, 2019)

I think it's a bent connecting rod, we had a road truck with a 300 Cummins with a bent rod, smoked white every morning, till it warmed up!
*


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Tx Jim said:


> 6610 has a parent bore block with no sleeves/liners from the factory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The diesel shop owner removed the injector based on no exhaust heat from #1 cylinder and ran scope down into block.. Piston has a hole in it. I'm certainly not doubting you that it has no sleeves but I have read on several web pages that Ford/New Holland started making a new/different block for these tractors because of cavitation. Two of those pages state that cylinder sleeves were part of the revamped block.


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## Tx Jim (Jul 28, 2020)

My understanding is newer Ford/NH engine blocks have X's cast into the side of the blocks. I don't know if these blocks have sleeves or if they're parent bore. Does your tractor's engine block have X's cast into side of the block?


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

yes it does


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Tx Jim said:


> My understanding is newer Ford/NH engine blocks have X's cast into the side of the blocks. I don't know if these blocks have sleeves or if they're parent bore. Does your tractor's engine block have X's cast into side of the block?


1989 model. I understand the new block came out in 1998.


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Wayne Locke said:


> 1989 model. I understand the new block came out in 1998.


 came out in 1988. sorry for the typo


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)




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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

The local diesel shop pulled the head off this week. A piece of metal found its way into the #1 cylinder. There are impressions all over the top of the piston from this metal. The diesel shop owner thinks it came from either the air intake or through the injector port when I changed the injectors. No way I can be 100% certain but all four injectors were intact when I removed them, all four of the new injectors were intact when the diesel shop removed them. No metal the size of the impressions made its way in through the injector port when I was changing the injectors. Its possible, I guess, a piece of metal chipped off inside the air filter assembly when I changed the inner and outer air filters but I don't think so. Some of the impressions in the top of the piston looked to me to be the size of a fragment from a piston ring. About 3/16" wide, about 1/4" long with a curve. Also the hole in the piston was at the edge of the piston and the scoring of the cylinder wall was at the same place. The diesel shop owner said he has never seen a piece of a ring come up by the piston and into the cylinder. From the damage I saw in the cylinder and what I know about when the excessive blow by and cold start-up smoke started, I believe that is exactly what happened. The blow by started increasing long before I put in new injectors and changed the air filters. The cold start-up smoke started quite some time after the blow by started increasing. FYI, this block has dry sleeves and the block will have to go to the engine machine shop for removing and re-sleeving. Also, the way this tractor was designed the front end of the tractor has to come off just to remove the oil pan. The diesel shop owner will not have a definite cost until the engine machine shop pressure tests both the head and the block but estimates from $5000 to $7000 total cost including labor.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Your diesel shop owner has never seen a piece of piston ring come up by the piston and into the cylinder? I guess he doesn't do a lot of engine overhauls. I'm no shop owner, but I've seen it more times than I care to count. It's not that unusual.


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## Tx Jim (Jul 28, 2020)

I agree with what unssquidly stated.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

It will be interesting to see what the diesel shop finds when they tear the engine down.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Not really. The top ring on most diesel engines is different from all the others. Usually made tougher due to the pounding it takes. On some pistons the groove for this ring is actually an insert made of tougher material than cast aluminum. On many it is not. Over time the aluminum groove can become larger, the ring begins to hammer more on the top and bottom of it, and the ring can actually snap. Often into small pieces which end up turning in the groove, rapidly wearing even more of the ring land away. Eventually some work their way to the top and out onto the crown. 

Just because we're dealing with an individual who has never seen it before doesn't mean it hasn't happened.


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Fedup said:


> Not really. The top ring on most diesel engines is different from all the others. Usually made tougher due to the pounding it takes. On some pistons the groove for this ring is actually an insert made of tougher material than cast aluminum. On many it is not. Over time the aluminum groove can become larger, the ring begins to hammer more on the top and bottom of it, and the ring can actually snap. Often into small pieces which end up turning in the groove, rapidly wearing even more of the ring land away. Eventually some work their way to the top and out onto the crown.
> 
> Just because we're dealing with an individual who has never seen it before doesn't mean it hasn't happened.


Fedup, you still dogging the diesel shop owner and me too. Why did you have to add that last paragraph? Again, totally unnecessary. I haven't read any where on this post where anyone stated it has never happened. The diesel shop owner never said it hasn't happened. He only said he has never seen it. Ok, you got the last dig in so can you just let it go now please.


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## Wayne Locke (Dec 1, 2019)

Again I would like to thank everyone of you that have offered helpful information on this issue with my tractor. I will keep those of you posted on the rebuild progress if you would like. Thanks again. Wayne


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