# Ford 8n 1952, new coil but no spark



## Redmapleleaf (Sep 18, 2021)

Hi all,
I am a new ford 8n owner. Mine had already been converted to 12v and it was working very well. It was very easy to start. Then one day it just stop dead. While i was riding it. I tried to check for spark and it had none, either from the spark plugs or directly from the coil. I also checked that there was voltage, 12.65v, to the coil so i knew that the battery connection is good. Thinking that the coil is dead, i ordered the pertronix coil, flame thrower 3ohms, part 40511, and also the electronic ignition for the distributor, part 1244a, so that I don't have to do the point and condenser maintenance. Anyway, after i put in the new coil and electronic ignition, the tractor still doesn't start. I still don't see any spark coming out of the coil. I am running out of ideas. I hope some one out there may be able to help me.

Please note that my tractor doesn't have any ballast resistor after it was converted to 12v

Thank you.


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

Good Morning Redmapleleaf, welcome to the forum,

Looks like Fuddy replied to your post with a post....









Ford 8n 1952, new coil but no spark


It's just me, but I'd stay with points/condenser. Providing it's 12 volt negative ground it's so simple. 12v to coil +, coil -- negative to distributor. Points open (piece of paper works), run coil tower lead to a spark plug laying on a good ground. Key on, screwdriver or piece of wire coil --...




www.tractorforum.com


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## Joe.S.AK (Nov 26, 2020)

Six and Fuddy - you both have a valid point --- however --- like RML I also wanted to get away from the WW II old school technology of points, resisters and all that and took my '40 9N that had been 12 V converted already and finished dragging the ignition system to modern EI as well as a round coil. The difference was staggering - and worrying about burned or dirty points is a thing of the past now.

So RML, pull the resister and save it in a box in the shop along with the points and condenser to WOW later generations. The round coil (like mine) should already have an internal resister in it. 

As to the specifics on tracking the power problem - consider calling the Petronix Customer Service number -- they are easy to talk with and very knowledgeable on electrical headaches. Sounds like a bad component or just a poor contact somewhere (like maybe the ignition switch). Plug wires could be a big consideration as well but talking with the CS guy at Petronix will get things working mighty quickly.
- Joe -


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## Redmapleleaf (Sep 18, 2021)

Thank you for all your help. I have an update for you: the tractor is now working again.

So i continued for half a day yesterday checking out my wiring and switches to look for bad connections. I also connect the coil directly to the battery to by pass all the switches. It still didn't work. Then an old timer came to visit me. He is an antique tractor collector with more than ten tractors in his barn. He urged me to go to Nappa to buy the point and condenser replacement for my distributor. Since I didn't have much of an option, i grudgingly followed his advice. The tractor came roaring back after i replaced my electronic ignition.

I still don't know what was wrong with my electronic ignition set up but I am just too happy to have the tractor back up














running. The Nappa parts only costed me $30 where as the electronic ignition part costed me more than $100. So i will be sending back mine too Pertronix and save some money.


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

So many people I know switched to electronic ignition only going back to points and condenser. It's hard to beat simplicity. 
If you want points to last get some Distributor Cam Lube and put a TINY amount on points rubbing block where it contacts distributor cam.

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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

Back when I was still running gassers I put Pertronix EI in a Ford 3000. It worked flawlessly for 8 years. Then I sold the tractor. The guy who bought it would call me on occasion about other tractor and implement matters and I would always ask how the tractor was running. His answer was always the same - it runs great. He moved out of state and I have lost track of the tractor but I can verify it ran for at least 13 years without the distributer cap ever coming off. Most of the guys who denigrate EI have NEVER tried it or like you, didn't know how to make their tractor run on points so they bought EI hoping it was a magic cure for a no spark situation.
Electronic Ignition works good and it is superior to the old points and condenser ignition.
There is not ONE manufacturer of gas engines in the world still installing points type ignition system.
Not one.


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## Redmapleleaf (Sep 18, 2021)

Ultradog said:


> Back when I was still running gassers I put Pertronix EI in a Ford 3000. It worked flawlessly for 8 years. Then I sold the tractor. The guy who bought it would call me on occasion about other tractor and implement matters and I would always ask how the tractor was running. His answer was always the same - it runs great. He moved out of state and I have lost track of the tractor but I can verify it ran for at least 13 years without the distributer cap ever coming off. Most of the guys who denigrate EI have NEVER tried it or like you, didn't know how to make their tractor run on points so they bought EI hoping it was a magic cure for a no spark situation.
> Electronic Ignition works good and it is superior to the old points and condenser ignition.
> There is not ONE manufacturer of gas engines in the world still installing points type ignition system.
> Not one.


Hi Joe,
I trust your assessment and others on the reliability of the EI system very much. I am an electrical engineer so i understand the linkage between magnetism and electricity and how the EI works well enough. I think that it is much simpler and there is less moving part to break down. Unfortunately for some reason my EI didn't work. Could it be a bad part??? At the moment I have a lot of work around my home stead and i just need a working tractor to help me out. So if point and condenser works then I would gladly take it. May be in the future when the tractor stop running again then I will try the EI one more time. One good thing out of this is that I have replaced the old coil in there with the Pertronix Flame Thrower coil which suppose to give the tractor a bigger spark to run on.


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## Joe.S.AK (Nov 26, 2020)

Ultradog,

Yes sir - 100% true there - however - we all know and understand that points DID fill the gap (Oh, was that bad) between the original, even worse, earliest system of primitive ignition used in the original cars and what we now use today. 

Of course the points system did work, yes it was simple BUT was a time consuming and high maintenance pain in the neck to maintain. Just like seasonally changing single weight engine oil every 3 thousand miles, when technological advances made maintenance better, more reliable and easier we all changed to using it. Who uses, or would WANT to use straight 30 weight mineral oil in the daily driver today?

Like most young guys in the 50s I started out using and maintaining point type ignitions. Everything that burned gasoline had points and you just had to learn about them because, other than diesel, every single engine used them. Hit a water filled pothole and the old dry rag from the trunk came out to dry off the points - right there on the side of the road. Remember all that, I surely do?

Nothing (NOTHING) is perfect but I certainly don't miss filing and gaping the points on our '46 CJ Jeep on a bitter cold winter afternoon. 
******
"Leaf", were you using copper or carbon centered spark plug wires? I have heard that using the wrong type can fry an EI. 

All the Best.

- Joe -


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

On the other hand () I've had this argument with so many people over the years. Wife & I collect old cars, a few examples: the '55 & Nova my wife's mother bought new, the '58 Met I've had 45+ years.
All original drivetrain, ignition, braking system, etc.
There are a myriad of "new & improved" old cars with disc brakes, fuel injection, electronic ignition, etc. However...it is what it is!
If I want that I'll drive one of our new Mustangs. 
I have a new John Deere 3038. Yes, in 20 years removing that antiquated polluting diesel replacing it with an electric & battery drivetrain will be an improvement. Right?
Our attitude is why not keep things as they were designed...otherwise what's the point in owning them? The Nova & Met have around 55K miles, but the Bel Air has been to the Moon and halfway back. Ignition has never let us down, it's simple & works.























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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

Fuddy,
The biggest reason I see for keeping them "all original" is pure sentimentalism.
I am not sentimental.
My first tractor was a 2N Ford that my father left me.
I drove it for a couple of years and then sold it to get a better one. Some folks think arrrgh, how could you sell your father's tractor. But I don't miss that tractor at all.
My dad wasn't sentimental either. If he could see how I have parlayed his little 2N into the tractors I have now he would be proud of me.
I don't give a hoot if they are original. I want them to work. And I want to do the least amount of repairs to keep them working. That is why when I had gassers I put EI in them. Though they were 12V from the factory it is why they got an alternator when the frail, low wattage charging system went kaput. It is why I use modern multi viscosity oils in them, modern oil seals, modern non- asbestos clutch and brake linings, modern valve seats and modern coolant and fuel conditioners among other things.
And I use this modern Android phone to discuss tractor related issues with the world instead of just my neighbor across the fence like my grand dad had to do.
I don't mind if you are sentimental and the fact that your MIL's car has great meaning to you.
But what I do mind is people saying the old ignition and charging systems are equal in performance to their modern replacements. They are adequate yes but not equal. They are actually rather inferior. Especially when you consider things like longevity and the need for maintenance.


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

Well...I gave you a like because I understand where you're coming from, and I know you understand me, so a meeting of the minds.
I wouldn't do anything that can't be easily reversed. EI can be put back to points/condenser. 
As time goes on some things change for the better, but not ALL things. 
Sentimentalism is a part, but manufacturers of everything develop something really good then change it. A few examples: the GM turbo 350 & 400 transmissions, Ford 300 cu in six, Chrysler 225 slant 6, AMC 290 thru 401 series V8 & many others.
One gas tractor I have my grandfather bought new has points & condenser. I won't change it since it works well.
Wife & I used to drag race, she a bracket car, SS/B for me. We ran points because we could work with it, change weight springs, phase rotor, etc. Same with carburetors...lots of fine tuning & modifications. 
Bottom line is it's whatever one chooses to do on their equipment.

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## Redmapleleaf (Sep 18, 2021)

Joe.S.AK said:


> Ultradog,
> 
> Yes sir - 100% true there - however - we all know and understand that points DID fill the gap (Oh, was that bad) between the original, even worse, earliest system of primitive ignition used in the original cars and what we now use today.
> 
> ...


My theory is that if people is used to walking then don't give them a bicycle. It is their tried and true method of getting around. It has worked since the day off their first ancestor whereas the bicycles is too unstable, they could fall and get injured etc etc.

I am among a few who wouldn't mind trying the bicycles and this was why I bought the EI. Some of the thing I forgot to mention was that I had replaced the lead wire from the coil with this one, Standard Motor Products 717CE Power Lead https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C7XMG...abc_QF5Q240322AS7HPNCV52?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1, since I suspected that the former wire may have a continuity issue. I have also put a scope to measure the signal coming out of the EI and the scope picked up nothing. So clearly the EI wasn't working right since I was expecting some saw tooth signal coming out of it. It could be a defective EI or the gap between the spinning magnet and the coil of the EI wasn't set correctly. If I am right, on the 8n, I think there is no gap adjustment for the EI so it must had been a defective EI.


fuddy1952 said:


> On the other hand () I've had this argument with so many people over the years. Wife & I collect old cars, a few examples: the '55 & Nova my wife's mother bought new, the '58 Met I've had 45+ years.
> All original drivetrain, ignition, braking system, etc.
> There are a myriad of "new & improved" old cars with disc brakes, fuel injection, electronic ignition, etc. However...it is what it is!
> If I want that I'll drive one of our new Mustangs.
> ...


WOW, those are beautiful cars Fuddy. These are rare pieces of history so I wouldn't change anything as long as it work. My tractor is actually a work horse for me so I need to make it as reliable as much as I can.


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

Thanks. I'd have to conclude a 66 year old car with over 350,000 miles on it with a Kettering ignition system has been pretty reliable. 
I won't be here in 2088 to see how many new cars will still be around. 

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