# Euthanize or not?



## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

I saw this cat at work limping so I went up to check on it aND saw one of its leg bone protruding out of its skin. It was rotten. I decided to call a vet. They recommended carrying it to the animal hospital thus I did.

The vet there said it's going to have to be amputated but since it's a stray and we don't know the history on it...it might be best to put her out. She is very skinny (she ate food we had and drunk water) but vet says she's very sickly. He expects there could be more damage inside her. He says if we're going to put her to sleep them it's no use to do blood test for AIDS or lukemia.

I hate to see it suffer and I hate to not try something when it's possible she could live.

The amputation is going to cost $700-$900 in the end. 
My mother wants me to save her..she's a fanatic about cats. I have no place in my home and I don't know about my mother's home..she already has too many cats. I dont know if my brother wants the cat for his kids..he has a lot of dogs that I have to feed.

I dont know what to do. Any suggestions? Vet needs to know something by the morning.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

I have two cats,and I love them dearly,but,that is true,what the vet said.
It looks like a car hit her,and with the sepsis,it's best to euthanize her.


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

It just pisses me off. But that's life. 

I told my mother to talk to the vet and let him tell her what he said to me.

But im feeling were going to have to put her out of her misery. If we do..maybe they'll let me get her back and burt her at the farm.


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## Thomas (Nov 1, 2006)

I hear you and feel for you folks...indeed a shame.


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## Dad2FourWI (Mar 25, 2015)

Yeah, we have three strays that now live with us and I would hate to loose one of them... (and here I am more of a "dog person"!!!)

... but I agree, in this case, we would put her down gently... 

-Dad2FourWI


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

Well its dOne. Called at 8 and told them. Will pick up her remains and bury her at the farm.


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## Dad2FourWI (Mar 25, 2015)

Well done... better than suffering!!!

... but still a tough thing...


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## skunkhome (Nov 30, 2008)

You did the right thing. You are to be commended for taking care of a stray. I suppose you had to pay for the services. Most would not bother.


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah im going to pay for it and bury her. I'm soft in some situations..particularly dealing with animals.


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## Country Boy (Mar 18, 2010)

Being that it was infected and you didn't know what internal damage there was, what you did was probably for the best. That said, we did have a barn cat get hit by the road ditch mower the town uses. Her one back leg was severed except for a few tendons, her other one was skinned to the bone in a few places, and her stomach was shaved of the outer layers of skin. We found her by the back door where she had crawled and brought her into the house to, we assumed, die in peace. She was still going the next day and the day after that and she ended up making a full recovery. Her legs were always a bit lumpy and she used to lay on her stomach and stretch them straight back from time to time, but she lived for another 8 years after that. Our vet said that if you put two pieces of a cat's bone in the same room, they will probably heal back together. They are extremely good at healing.


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## Cublover (Feb 20, 2011)

My ol' girl is about 14 now. She still is full of pizz and vinegar but I know her days are limited.
She still is the best 'mouser' I've ever had. Last summer I gave her 'what fer' cause she hadn't caught a mouse in 2 weeks. She delivered a live baby opossum to the living room to show me she still had it!
http://www.tractorforum.com/f176/kikis-biggest-mouse-ever-27482/


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

I could see the sepsis in your pic of her.
Cats do heal rapidly,but are fragile,when it comes to feline aids,or leukemia .
I have had to make this choice,before,and even though it was hard to do,it was for the best.
Chances are,the sepsis was already in her bloodstream,and,if so,she would have suffered a lot.


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

Well I went to pick up her remains. Paid the $135 cost. I open her box up and petted her for the last time and buried her next to my mother's favorite cat.

I could see maggots coming out of her wound when I was fixing to bury her so I still think she wouldn't have made it.

Wish I knew what happen to her


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## fatjay (Dec 6, 2013)

I'm a cat fanatic and this just kills me, but it's good you did what you did. You didn't have to post a picture though! Those eyes are so alert and aware!


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

to me she knew she was dying or going to die. She crawled under that box like she was just going to die there. She let me pet her but she was cautious around me. She knew she was vulnerable to being killed by something.


Wish I could've afford to save her but like I said..I doubt she would've made it but I'm not god.


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

One more picture I took of her. You can see the bone has been exposed outside of her body for awhile.

I felt bad when the first vet came. She picked the cat up by the scruff to move it and the cat screamed so loud and started pissing everywhere like it knew it was caught by something that was fixing to eat it.

there was nothing I could do.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

I think I would have reported the first ,for cruelty!
If they are a vet,they should know better than to handle a wounded animal that way!!


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

jhngardner367 said:


> I think I would have reported the first ,for cruelty!
> If they are a vet,they should know better than to handle a wounded animal that way!!


Well I wouldn't call it that. I should've gave her some gloves to pick the cat up.but she had no other choice cause she didn't know if the cat was contagious. She picked it up like a mother cat would on the scruff behind top of the head. The cat was just scared. Wasn't tamed I think


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## fatjay (Dec 6, 2013)

Scruff of the neck is the safest way to handle it. There's a set of nerves that when pinched temporarily paralyzed the cat. It's from its youth when the mother would pick up the kittens by the scruff. Assuming the cat isn't very overweight it should not harm the cat at all, just be minorly uncomfortable.


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## fatjay (Dec 6, 2013)

Disabling the animal is safe as you don't know how the animal will react or what it's infected with. Overall you have to think about your own safety first.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

True, BUT,...Why didn't they already have gloves?
I'm assuming ,of course,that you informed them it was a stray ?

I have a calico stray, here, and I approach her cautiously.
She has some new babies,and I've been feeding her,but she is still leery of people.
I did get to touch her, but all the while,I watched for claws,and teeth.
An animal in pain,however,will lash out,without hesitating,so the vet should have been prepared to handle it.
The way you described it,the cat screamed,and urinated,so it was in pain,and fearful.
"Cuffing" the cat(grabbing the neck) only keeps it from biting,not clawing or squirming.
A towel would have helped to immobilize the legs,and aid in moving it.
Just saying.


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## Thomas (Nov 1, 2006)

You folks have good heart...thanks for taking caring of the cat.
RIP Ms. Cat. <_____________>


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

She probably forgot jh. But what's done is done. 

Saw a dog in the highway kicking..I drug him to the sidewalk but he was already gone. 

Damn people need to watch the road and take caution. Each day I start to hate the human race more It seems like.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

One thing I dislike,in Arkansas,is that no one keeps their dogs in their own yards.
They let them run free,and every day , I see some poor dog laying dead along the road.
My daughter is one of them,and it makes me angry,but she continues to do it,even though she has already lost one dog.
They even had a guy last month that was driving around,and actually going up on lawns to hit animals! He is now in jail,since he also injured a person ,when he hit the dog they were walking .
I prefer cats,but like dogs,as well,and I figure if you can't,or won't take care of them,you shouldn't have them.
One type of person I actually HATE, is a dog- fighter ! I think they should be thrown into a ring with a pack of dogs,themselves !


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

People are not responsible. We have dogs running around too down here. Don't know how to solve it...well...we can solve it if people pay attention more.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

Last night,in a fog,I heard a small dog yipping,in my back yard. It sounded terrified.
When I looked out,I saw what looked like a Chihuahua mix,running from some coyotes.
I grabbed the .22,and went out the back door,just as they got into the yard,and were about to have a Mexican snack!
I killed 2 of them,and the rest took off.
The dog ran under my porch,and as I left for work,this morning,one of the neighbors asked about his dog. He said he let it out,last night,and was going to bring it inside,this morning!
I told him about the coyotes,and he just shrugged,and told me his dog was a "freebie",anyway!
He got the dog,and left.
Fish and Game picked up the coyotes,today.


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## skunkhome (Nov 30, 2008)

That is cold. A person like that needs a good butt kicking.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

I couldn't agree more,Phil !
As an update, the F and G officer stopped by,a few minutes ago.
He wanted to let me know that,on his way back to home office,he stopped at Animal control.
He said they told him they know the guy,and he's not supposed to own animals!
I saw them at his house,so I'm hoping they will remove the little dog(and others,if there ) !
I hope they find it a good home,'cause it was a spunky little dog.


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

People dont need to let their dogs run like (especially small ones) that in the wild if wildlife is around. Wildlife gets killed cause of it. People tend to forget..wild animals have to hunt to survive...they don't get fed kibbles.


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## skunkhome (Nov 30, 2008)

It is unfortunate but coyotes are growing in numbers and intruding back into area that have been long established as human habitat. When that happens pets and children get in their crosshairs and in the end the coyotes are going to loose out. Coyotes of today are not the same as 30 years ago. They are far more bold and aggressive nowadays even preying on adult humans in the northeast.


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

skunkhome said:


> It is unfortunate but coyotes are growing in numbers and intruding back into area that have been long established as human habitat. When that happens pets and children get in their crosshairs and in the end the coyotes are going to loose out. Coyotes of today are not the same as 30 years ago. They are far more bold and aggressive nowadays even preying on adult humans in the northeast.


That's the thing. They are losing their habitat daily. They are trying to survive in a changing world ran by humans. I'd imagine you would do the same if your species was being eradicated.

Coyotes were native to most of the western us while the wolf was more dominate here on the East coast but with the eradication of the wolf by humans long ago..they disappeared and allowed the coyote to come into the wolf's territory. But the wolf's population is coming back in some places but humans again will try to destroy them like they do everything else they touch.


our hunters bitch about how the coyotes are slaughtering the deer yet on my deer camera I'm seeing a good bit of turkey and deer still. Yes, coyotes do kill some but that's what they do to survive. Humans are the ones who have put more animal species in extinction Than animal on animal has


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

The Dept. of Natural Resources,in Michigan after receiving orders to thin out the deer ,due to many car/deer accidents,increased the number of doe licenses available,and then they got the idea to capture coyotes from the Northern part of the state,and introduce them into Southern lower Michigan.
The result,after 4 years : Very few deer were taken by the coyotes,but several farmers lost sheep chickens,etc,and the coyotes moved into suburban areas and started feeding on pets.
Now,they allow the coyotes to be shot,in hopes of thinning them out,because they have tripled their numbers !


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

jhngardner367 said:


> The Dept. of Natural Resources,in Michigan after receiving orders to thin out the deer ,due to many car/deer accidents,increased the number of doe licenses available,and then they got the idea to capture coyotes from the Northern part of the state,and introduce them into Southern lower Michigan.
> The result,after 4 years : Very few deer were taken by the coyotes,but several farmers lost sheep chickens,etc,and the coyotes moved into suburban areas and started feeding on pets.
> Now,they allow the coyotes to be shot,in hopes of thinning them out,because they have tripled their numbers !


That's humans stupidity.

It's like a guy near our place was unloading truck loads of wild hogs and Russian razorbacks. He had the idea "oh it will bring lots of money to the area". But instead the hogs scattered And now people just want to masacre them..someone dumped a truckload of dead ones on our property. Pissed me off and still doeS. Stupid people


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## skunkhome (Nov 30, 2008)

Wild hogs are becoming a real problem everywhere. They are an exotic species that now can't be eradicated with hunting. The Russian boar has done irreversible damage in the Smokeys as I am sure you are aware. I'm all in favor of them shooting all they can. Now dumping them on your property... Totally wrong and illegal. Firefighter, it sounds like you spend a lot of time being ticked off. Life's too short.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

The last I knew,feral hogs,in Michigan, were to be shot on sight! They were a real problem,when I moved,2 years ago.
It is also illegal to breed Russian boars with others,or to even have them.


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

If I see a hog I wouldn't bother it. Yeah they damage some things but I've seen humans do more damage to the earth than a pile of hogs. A hog roots an area up but humans clear and destroy thousands of acres a day.

People releasing them need to be fined.


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## Thomas (Nov 1, 2006)

"our hunters bitch about how the coyotes are slaughtering the deer"
Good share of those type are just plan lazy,they take..take and its the hell with you and hooray for me,something in the same line of road hunter,when wildlife pushes back good chance it will be put down,but when human does something bad really dam bad we can save them w/ parol etc...give me a friggin break...STOP...I won't getting going on that subject.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

My family,for as long as I can remember,hunted,but the rule was"Don't hunt what you don't eat !"
Unless it was a varmint , causing damage, it had to be food.
I used to hunt rabbits,squirrel,Pheasant,turkey and deer.Even got a bear,once.
But it all went to feeding the family. Now, I hunt deer,and the occasional pheasant(or turkey),as I've lost my taste for the rabbits and squirrels.
I don't hunt trophies,I hunt for food,and I taught my kids the same way.
When I shot those coyotes,the other night,it was to save the little dog. If the dog had not been there,the coyotes would not have been bothered by me.


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

jhngardner367 said:


> My family,for as long as I can remember,hunted,but the rule was"Don't hunt what you don't eat !"
> Unless it was a varmint , causing damage, it had to be food.
> I used to hunt rabbits,squirrel,Pheasant,turkey and deer.Even got a bear,once.
> But it all went to feeding the family. Now, I hunt deer,and the occasional pheasant(or turkey),as I've lost my taste for the rabbits and squirrels.
> ...



Yeah I'm the same. Only kill what you're going to eat. 

I don't really trust these folks who claim they're conserving wildlife but yet kill and use the dead animal for a trophy. They're contridicting their selves


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## Dad2FourWI (Mar 25, 2015)

We have had coyotes since I was a boy (and that was about 40 years ago!)

We have enjoyed listening to them on the hunt and they occasionally run along the 4' fence that surrounds the yard as they head towards the marsh...

In all these years, they have never taken a sheep, a pig, a duck, or a chicken!!

Now, those sweet bear that everyone likes soooo much.... last Spring we lost 6 chickens and 2 ducks to the bear!!!

We always keep our feeds in the barn, covered, garbage covered, recycles covered, you name it!

... and please, don't say "bear do not eat meat"... we have heard that so many times... and yet one night, the cats were going crazy, we grabbed the flash light and headed for the coop (20 ft from the cabin) an there were two bear (~250 lbs) - one enjoying a Black Jersey Giant (chicken) and the other enjoying a Rouen duck.... all they were missing was the wine and checkered table cloth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We called the Sheriff and he did not care a bit... called the DNR and they did not care either... finally contacted the USDAg Fish and Wildlife Services - they were awesome!!! 
View attachment 24134


This live-trap sat at our farm for three weeks... unfortunately, the bear had moved on by the time they were set...
View attachment 24135


This bear actually approached the cabin (well came right up to the fence, while I was PLAYING my BANJO.... if that does not scare the #ell of something, I do not know what would!!!!
View attachment 24136


This one here is IN OUR YARD, directly above the coop... this was the one eating my duck!!! That Red Pine is about 50 years old - not a small tree. When the deputy sheriff came over (to do nothing) he said that it was approx 250 lbs.
View attachment 24137


Here is the coop door with the "new hardware"!!! That is a bear paw mark on the door!!!!!
View attachment 24138


We are a bit "down" on bear after all the troubles... but the coyotes are still "welcome" here...

-Dad2FourWI


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

Bears are OMNIVOROUS . They eat anything!
I got treed by a black bear,when I was 7,up in Marquette,Mi.,but the bear wouldn't climb the tree,and couldn't push it over(yes,they do that !).
Stayed in the tree for almost 2 hours,until my dad and a neighbor came,and scared the bear off.
I had been picking blue berries,for my step mom,for pies.


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## Cublover (Feb 20, 2011)

A couple friends of mine were in Law Enforcement. Husband was a K-9 officer with (2) well trained dogs that lived with him. Wife was a city police officer.
They live on a woods line in a small community about 15 miles south west of me.
One night, they were awakened by glass breaking. 
They went, fully armed and accompanied by (2) Police dogs into their kitchen and found a 'problem bear' DNR had named 'Danny'!
They pepper sprayed him and he got out that window in short order.

Danny' was eventually put down. If he wasn't worried about breaking into a house with 2 police dogs inside, they figured that he was not going to benefit from 'negative re- enforcement' again.


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## Dad2FourWI (Mar 25, 2015)

Cublover.... sounds good to me! 

The USDAg guy told us that the bear were as loopy as a jay-bird in the Spring... hungry and just "off" from the Winter... go figure!

RIP "Danny" the bear!

jhngardner367, yeah we know all to well... <grin!>... we love to hear the city slickers from IL tell us that those sweet bear would never eat a duck!!! LOL! :lmao:

... but I have to admit, when I saw that very large animal climb that Red Pine like it was easy-peasy... well, the hair on the back of my neck was up!!!!! Large animal and REAL strong!!!

I'll keep you posted if they are back this year... it is about that time!!!! I played the banjo outside a bit today... but luckily no one was listening today! 

-Dad2FourWI


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## Cublover (Feb 20, 2011)

My last post of the evening. Another short Police dog story.
Back in the 70's, I received a German Shepard as a 'gift' from my best man at my wedding. He was about 11 months old with a bad attitude.
He liked me though, so all was kool!
I put him in the car and drove back to Virginia. I stopped by a friends house and mentioned that I had a new dog. 
He said, "Bring him in".
I go to the car and get him. Dog walked into the kitchen and 'ALERTED' on the cabinet above the sink!
The guys asked "Where did you GET that dog?"
I said that he was a Md State Police DRUG dog reject!
The guy said, "GET that SOMB11CH OUTTA HERE!"


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## skunkhome (Nov 30, 2008)

We have black bears here in Louisiana but I've never seen one. Coyotes occasionally. Up at the lodge we like to visit in the Smokeys there are lots of black bears. They keep them out of the garbage shed by stringing electric fence wire down the corners and around the door. It works very well for them. One evening when the owners were away my wife and I along with about 20 other guest were sitting at the dinner table when a sow and two cubs showed up nosing around the kitchen. Everyone jumps up and runs out to look at the cute cubs. My wife is caught up in the moment and follows against my protests. The whole crowd goes out into the national park not 10 yards away and pursues the bears. Finally I get my wife's attention and she stops about 20 yards down the trail. If you want trouble harass a sow and her cubs. 

Some years ago a man and wife who had been a strangled took a camping trip in Smokey Mountain National Park. A couple of days later the man showed up at a rangers station without his wife. He explained that he went for a hike by himself and when he came back she was gone and that he had spent a couple of days looking for her. I can't recall if he was charged with murder or was just under suspicion. They hunted all over the area looking to rescue her and then recover her but never found a trace. A year or so later a trout fisherman stumbled across a camera and recorded on the camera were a number of photos of a bear and her cubs. The series of shots appeared as if she was following them trying to get a close up shot.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

Last year, Michigan passed a law that allows people to pet bear cubs !!
Seriously, how STUPID do you have to be,to try that???


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## skunkhome (Nov 30, 2008)

Is that with or without a signed and notarized release from the Sow?


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## skunkhome (Nov 30, 2008)

Wow, this has really strayed off topic..... I guess that is why they call it conversation.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

Sorry,Phil,...I was going to post the other part of my statement,but the grand kids showed up,and I got mugged !

So, now they can pet bear cubs. BUT,when 2 people got bitten,they tried to SUE the State of Michigan because the state didn't TELL them that bears bite !
One actually told the judge,that " Yogi,and BooBoo,never bit humans !"
They stated that,since they got bitten,the cubs should be destroyed .
The court disagreed,and dismissed the case.


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## OrangeIronMan (Apr 16, 2015)

Cublover said:


> My ol' girl is about 14 now. She still is full of pizz and vinegar but I know her days are limited.
> She still is the best 'mouser' I've ever had. Last summer I gave her 'what fer' cause she hadn't caught a mouse in 2 weeks. She delivered a live baby opossum to the living room to show me she still had it!
> http://www.tractorforum.com/f176/kikis-biggest-mouse-ever-27482/



Wife has 3 _ which I think is a little to much 1 or possibly 2 cats , so they can also Keep each other company . 1 Of them is a great Mouser , 5 mice & 6 moles
last yr. / 2 mice so far this Yr. - Hey those Things Eat & Chew everything
Dam Mice .. _ I also see the Hawk got 1 mouse yesterday , a I'll attest to the Old Furnace we took out of this new to Us Place _ actually had a mouse inside it ..
Sooo , glad that thing is gone !

I'll up load Old Pile of Crap : Pic and the Furnace Room was just as Bad !
Then the New Duck Work I Designed and had Fab'd .
The New Furnace Room .


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

We have some bears down here.
I know we have many wildfires and it makes them migrate every now and then.

But I know after one fire they moved into our area and my old cousin who lives by herself looked out her back window and saw a bear..she called the game warden but they didn't believe her and said they dont come this far up. Ha.

Then some of the dog hunters were running dogs near the bay down the road and two dogs ran after a bear. One dog was killed. Other one got hurt pretty bad.

I'm not going to bother a bear. I don't see them much. I let them do their thing and I do mine.

I know we was at the okefenokee on a wildfire and a hunter shot a bear..he walked up to it thinking it was dead but it wasn't aND began to maul him. 

I'm not going to bother nothing. As long as it doesnt attack me..it's ok..and usually they run the other direction. If one taunts and acts like wants to attack I just slowly walk away or scare it. We both live and go on With our lives.


But people taunt lots of animals and when the animal attacks. They get blamed and killed. That's what ticks me off.


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## Thomas (Nov 1, 2006)

"But people taunt lots of animals and when the animal attacks. They get blamed and killed. That's what ticks me off. "

And most states has laws not to do so but often are enforce....very very seldom.


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## Thomas (Nov 1, 2006)

"Michigan passed a law that allows people to pet bear cubs !!
Seriously, how STUPID do you have to be,to try that???"

Make one wonder just how dumb/stupid those people are,guess they been watching to much Disney movies.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

I guess it's like the people that got the Roadrunner cartoons taken off the air"because they were violent".
Any normal person knew it wasn't real,,..........even the KIDS knew. But,somewhere there seemed to be that ONE PERSON,that didn't know the difference !


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## Dad2FourWI (Mar 25, 2015)

Yea.... similar story with the Three Stooges and the hammer scenes...

Hey, isn't this why the "Darwin Awards" started?!?!?!?!? :lmao:


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

Because Congress would win it , every time !:lmao::lmao:


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

Found this doe and fawn dead a good ways from the highway with truck tires pulled up to them.

Wonder if I need to report to DNR?


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## Cublover (Feb 20, 2011)

A few years ago I stopped to pick up a guy at their gate since they had cows.
I stood at the gate looking west for the guy. I turned and saw 3 bear cubs looking into the right window if my van.
I decided to get out of there before momma bear showed up.
Those cubs chased me about 200 yards before they jumped off the road into the east side.
A friend had a covered Chevy truck bed with dog food stored there. A bear had ripped the fiberglass cover off to get the dog food.
I really have no desire to 'pet' something that can rip up a fiberglass truck bed cover!


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

Same here.
I was meant to save a petting zoo,called Oswald's Bear Farm,that was under fire for allowing people to pet bears,and feed them Fruit Loops.
It allows people to pet cubs up to 90 lbs,and 36 weeks old .
It is Public Act 8,of 2013 .

Any idiot knows how much damage a cub of 90 lbs can do !

GFC,..I'd still let the DNR know about it.
Maybe they were on to the people,so they just ditched them on you.


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## Thomas (Nov 1, 2006)

Would call in heart beat GFC.
By the looks no mercy was shown for the deer.


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## Fredneck (May 25, 2012)

wow. saying bears don't eat meat is ignorance which stands out.


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## skunkhome (Nov 30, 2008)

Thomas said:


> Would call in heart beat GFC.
> By the looks no mercy was shown for the deer.


Yes definitely, especially now that you have your tire tracks at the scene.


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## GFC Firefighter (Jul 15, 2010)

Well I emailed them. Should've called. It's rained heavy now so I don't know if tracks are any good now.


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