# Ford 3000 pto



## BILL CROOK

When trying to engage my pto (ford 3000) i get gear grinding and will not engage.
I had the motor ideling / transmission high - low in neut. / transmision in neut. / clutch in and clutch out. What do i need to do ?? Manual says "to start the pto, move lever sharply forward into fully engaged position". I'm afraid i'll shear some gears if i force it in.
Thanks --- bar bill


----------



## BelarusBulldog

Something you can try. Engage PTO with the engine shut off, then start engine and see if PTO is rotating. Then try to disengage the PTO with engine running at idle and notices if it slips out easily. Then try to engage again with engine still running at idle. If you still get a grinding resistance, I'd say your clutch or bands need adjustment. Hope this helps. Bye


----------



## BILL CROOK

I did as you said ---- engaged the pto and then started the engine. Snowblower / pto worked fine. I disengaged pto -- while in idle / while snowblower / pto was turning --- disengaged fine. I tried to re-engage then --- but got the grinding gears.
This is supposed to be "live" power. Doesn't that mean the pto runs (when engaged) if clutch is depressed or not ???
Thanks for hanging in there guys -- it's got me puzzeled.
Bar bill


----------



## BelarusBulldog

If you have a "Live" PTO, then yes the clutch doesn't disengage it. My Belarus has same set up and is controlled by bands. I would say they need to be adjusted. Do you own the shop manual for this tractor? If not maybe a dealer would lone or photo copy theirs. If you aren't mechanically incline, hire someone to do it for you, or take to a shop. One more question, what rpm does your tractor idle at? If it's turned up too high you will get this grinding also. Bye


----------



## sixbales

Bill,

Couple of things:

1) With a live PTO, when you push your clutch all the way down, the PTO should stop. 

You should be able engage the PTO lever without grinding, but mine often grinds a little bit - minor grind & "clunks" in - even with the engine idled as low as it will go. You can always turn the engine off to engage the PTO. But the PTO should stop when you push the clutch all the way down (safety feature - you must be able to stop the PTO).

2) Your clutch should have about 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" of free play - push it down with your hand till you feel resistance, and measure the amount of free play you have. 

You probably need to make a minor clutch adjustment. You adjust the clutch by shortening the linkage where it attaches to the clutch fork arm. Loosen clevis locknut, remove cotter pin and clevis pin, and turn clevis.

Turn the clevis ONE TURN at a time and check results. Do not over-adjust the linkage, or it will shorten the life of your clutch.


----------



## BelarusBulldog

My mistake Bill, sixbales is right about your PTO! My PTO has two settings. 1 "Independent"so it is not affected by the clutch. 2 "Synchronized ground drive" where clutch can disengage PTO movement. ( Used to power, towed trailer axles. ) BIG THANKS to you sixbales for catching that one! Bye


----------



## BILL CROOK

I'm a little confused --- i'm thinking "live power" is the same as "independant power" --- just a different term --- but evidently it's not. I'd guess my 3000 is "independant power" cause that what the manual mentions --- "independant".
If that is the case --- and the clutch doesn't disengage the gears --- how do i engage pto with out the grinding ??
Surely it should engage with the engine running.
Bar bill


----------



## BelarusBulldog

Bill I am not sure how your tractor is set up clutch wise. My PTO is engaged by a lever that you move quickly thus engaging or disengaging the PTO. Some, if not most tractors use a two stage clutch setup. With this type clutch you push half way down to stop power going to your wheels and fully depress to stop PTO movement. This is useful like when using a snow-blower in heavy deep snow. You can cut power to wheels but blower keeps going, until clutch depressed fully. My tractor is set up differently than that. Pushing my clutch fully, doesn't stop PTO power in "Independent" setting. To stop my PTO, I have to move the lever out of engagement. In regards to your question about PTO engagement, think about an outboard motor. There is no clutch lever to move before switching gears. This is how my tractor operates. Another thing you could try while engaging your PTO, is to have the tractor in gear and ease out on the clutch peddle till you feel strain coming on. Then at the same time quickly engaging the PTO lever. Bye


----------



## BILL CROOK

I think my tractor is like yours with the outboard motor style pto engagement --- "independant".
I shall try your ideas and let ya know.
Thanks you guys, for all your input. With y'alls help, i'll get this d--- pto thing to working yet !!
Bar bill


----------



## BILL CROOK

I'd like to add a quote from my manual that makes me think as i do with my previous reply.
"on independant pto tractors, the shift lever is the only control used to engage the pto shaft. To start the pto, move the lever sharply forward into the fully engaged position". 
If i do as you mentioned (bulldog) and try to engage while releasing the clutch to move forward --- that may slow the gears down enough to accept the engage / smoother. Again --- i'll give it a try. 
Bar bill


----------



## Big_T

I copied the following from tractordata.com. According to tractor data.com, a Ford 3000 can have a transmission PTO, a live PTO, or an independent PTO (with select-o-speed transmission). Here's their description of each of these:

There are three basic types of PTO control on a farm tractor:

Transmission

The simpliest, and earliest, form of PTO is the transmission PTO. The PTO shaft is directly connected to the tractor's transmission. The PTO is only working when the tractor's clutch is relased, so if you take the tractor out of gear while slowing down the PTO will stop working. This is a disadvantage in applications such as mowing.

An overrunning clutch is often needed with a transmission PTO. Without it, the driven equipment (such as mower blades) will put a force on the PTO shaft, and then the transmssion, due to inertia. The equipment will "drive" the tractor, and you will still move after using the tractor's transmission clutch. An overrunning clutch prevents this from happening by allowing the PTO shaft to freely spin in one direction. In more recent models, this is built into the tractor. In older tractors, it is an extra piece of equipment mounted on the PTO shaft.

Live (two-stage clutch)

A live PTO works with the use of a two-stage clutch. Pressing the clutch half-way will disengage the transmission while pressing it fully will disengage the transmission and the PTO. This allows the operator to slow down or change gears while the PTO is still operating.

Independent

An independent PTO means that the PTO shaft is controlled with a separate clutch. As with a live PTO, this allows for full control over the tractor while separately controlling the PTO. There are two major types of independent PTO; mechanical and hydraulic. A mechanical-independent PTO uses a separate on-off selector, in addition to the PTO control lever. Often the tractor must be stopped or off to change this selector position. A hydraulic-independent PTO uses a single selector.


----------



## BILL CROOK

Great info big _t --- thanks a bunch.
I have one question. You quoted "an independant pto ---- (with seleto-speed)". Does that mean that the independant pto was adapted --- "only" ---- with select-o-speed ??? My 3000 is manual trans and that would narrow it down to "live power" only ------ because it's not "transmission power".
Bar bill


----------



## Big_T

Bill,

I got that from tractordata.com for a Ford 3000. Below is a copy of their stated PTO arrangements for a 3000:


Rear PTO: transmission (4-speed, 8-speed)

Live (over/under, optional on 8-speed)

Independent (Select-O-Speed)

Rear RPMs: 540

540/1000 (Select-O-Speed)

Tractordata is not always right, but they have a pretty high percentage of being right. My read on the above is that an independent PTO was available only with a select-o-speed transmission. Note that a select-o-speed can have both 540 and 1000 rpm PTO's. 

My guess is that you have a live PTO with a clutch that's out of adjustment, or simply a bad two stage clutch clutch, which is a fairly common problem.


----------



## BILL CROOK

Your last line --- "maybe the 2-stage clutch gone bad" --- sounds like lots of $$$$$$$ !!! 
And --- your probably right.
Thanks again --- i've got something to go on now anyways.
Bar bill


----------



## BILL CROOK

I've ordered up a shop manual for the 3000 -- maybe that will help me solve my pto problems. I do have another question though.
When i lift my snowblower (3 point) ----- when it gets to the top --- it jerks a little while holding it up. Is that normal ??
Bar bill


----------



## Big_T

I copied the following from troubleshooting hydraulic lift systems section of my shop manual:

EXCESSIVE CORRECTIONS (BOBBING OR "HICCUPS") IN RAISED OR TRANSPORT POSITION 
Could be caused by:

1. Worn or damaged check valve ball or seat.
2. Selector valve worn or damaged. 
3. Unload valve plug worn.
4. Lift cylinder safety valve damaged.
5. Faulty lift piston seals.
6. Control valve worn.
7. Damaged O-rings between lift cylinder and lift cover, or between lift cover and accessory cover. 
8. Cracked or porous lift cylinder or lift cover castings. 
9. Shall I go on?? Just kidding - that's it. 

I think most people live with this phenomena until it becomes a more significant problem, i.e., the lift doesn't work satisfactorily.


----------



## BILL CROOK

I've ordered / recieved / read (pto sections) the ford 3000 owners and shop manuals. I now know a lot about the pto for my tractor. It is "live" power with a two stage clutch. With the clutch depressed 1/2 way --- stops the tractor / with the clutch depressed all the way --- stops the tractor and pto. Unless i missed it though, nothing was mentioned in either manual about how to adjust the clutch petal / linkage so as to stop pto. Gears to engage it or even if the clutch can be adjusted. So i still lack the info on what to do --- to the clutch (or whatever) ---- to stop the gears so as to let the pto lever engage without grinding them.
What say yee smart ones.
Bar bill








disngage the pto gears or even if it can be adjusted.


----------



## flyingace

I have the identical setup, so something about your description doesn't add up.
The PTO engagement lever goes back (towards the rear of the tractor) to engage
the PTO and forward to disengage. Maybe I misread something, but if you are trying
to jam it forward to engage it when it's already disengaged may explain why gears are thrashing around.


----------



## sixbales

Flyingace is correct - "The PTO engagement lever goes back (towards the rear of the tractor) to engage the PTO, and forward to disengage".

To adjust the clutch, look in your manual under CLUTCH - LINKAGE ADJUSTMENT.


----------



## BILL CROOK

WELL I STILL HAVE MY PTO PROBLEM. I HAVE ADJUSTED THE CLUTCH TO THE MAX AND FULLY DEPRESSED, IT STILL DOES NOT DISENGAGE. I EVEN TRIED USING A BAR ON THE SHAFT --- WITH THE CLUTCH DEPRESSED --- WITH THE PTO LEVER ENGAGED (PUSHED TO THE REAR) --- TO BREAK IT LOOSE --- WITH NO LUCK. EVIDENTLY THE PROBLEM IS INTERNAL. THE SHOP MANUAL IS WORTHLESS. IT SHOWS ALL THE INTERNAL PARTS -- BUT EXPLAINES NOTHING. NO TROUBLE SHOOTING SENERIOS ACCEPT -- "ADJUST CLUTCH". THERE IS A 6 in. ROUND INSPECTION PLATE JUST TO THE REAR OF THE PTO LEVER. COULD A MECHANIC FIND THE PROBLEM FROM THERE ?? IF SO WHAT WOULD HE LOOK FOR ?? OR --- ANY OTHER IDEAS ?? THIS BEING THE 1st --- MY YEAR IS NOT STARTING OUT VERY "HAPPY".
HOPE Y'ALLS IS,
BAR BILL


----------



## BelarusBulldog

Bill, with the engine OFF, look inside the inspection hole. You should see ( with a light ) if anything is moving while getting someone to move the lever and depress the clutch. Sorry, I can't help much more without being there. Let us know what you find. Bye P.S. Hope you have a GREAT year, when all this is behind you.


----------



## Big_T

Your 2-stage clutch is gone. Common problem. Need to split the tractor to replace. Try to find a competent tractor mechanic to do the job - Ford/New Holland dealer charges too much.


----------



## BILL CROOK

Big_t
ohhh --- that's just great !!! Not really what i wanted to hear but kinda suspected it. Bulldog mentioned i should look behind the inspection plate. Is there something i should look for that can verify that "the 2-stage clutch" is gone ???
If i need to get it fixed --- will i need an older mech that mite be familiar with that kind of set up ?? What kind of parts would i need after he got in there and are they available ?? If so ----- where ??? Is it a farely simple or complicated job ??
Thanks -- bar bill


----------



## ErnieS

You might try looking at the PTO clutch as someone depresses the pedal all the way. It could be a throw-out bearing or fork problem or the disk could be rusted tight to the fly wheel.
Please! Don't type in all caps, except for maybe a word or two you want to emphasize. This is construed as shouting on Internet message boards and is considered bad manners.


----------



## BILL CROOK

i have been told about typing caps but i find it's easier not to go from one to the other.
evidently the pto cluch is a part of or separate and / or is operated by the same machanics as the tractor clutch. the shop manual didn't show anything of that sort (disc type clutch). shows only shafts and gears. i wondered how that worked. i had trouble this summer with the "tractor" clutch sticking. because of high humidity --- the plate stuck to the disc. i was told to hook up to a plow and work the tractor with the clutch depressed, until it broke loose. i did --- and it did. could it be that the pto clutch stuck at the same time ??? i don't know if the pto / clutch worked before this last summer cause i never used it. i've only had the tractor for a couple years. if that is the case --- can that be seen through the inspection opening ?? if so --- how can i tell by looking ?? if so --- can that be broke loose to ?? how ??
you guys are great help --- thanks again ---- bar bill


----------



## BILL CROOK

i'd guess the pto clutch plate is stuck to the disc --- the same as happened to the transmission clutch and plate (rust -- high humidiy) this summer --- which i broke loose by loading it up. (plowing). if i were to divise a force / pry bar attached to the pto shaft --- working it back and forth -- would it possibly loosen the pto clutch ?? how fragile are the gears inside --- i wouldn't want to do more damage than good ?? if that wouldn't work -- i'd guess we'll split the tractor.
bar bill


----------



## BILL CROOK

Fyi:
Solved my "stuck pto clutch" problem. 
Took my ford to the local junior college. They have a "farm impement "class there. Pretty impressive one i might add. They hooked the pto to a "dyno" -- loaded her up and the pto clutch broke loose. 
Thanks for all the input guys. I find the world is full of knowlege -- we just have to keep passing it on.
Bar bill in iowa


----------



## DaveDor

Always great then the fix is "easy" and inexpensive. Thanks to all for the knowledge gained.


----------



## caruncles

*Leak at PTO lever*

I have a leak where the PTO lever goes into the round plate which is bolted to the drive case. Does anyone know if there is a seal in there or what all is involved in fixing the leak?


----------



## harry16

There is an o-ring seal on the shaft that you have to replace. Plus a gasket for the plate that you have to remove. See items #6 and #2 on the attached parts diagram.

First thing you have to do is drain the rear axle center housing fluid to below the the level of the round PTO shift cover plate. Then remove the left step plate (foot rest) if so equipped.

Then unbolt the cover from the center housing, and remove the cover, shift lever, and shift fork assembly. 

To disassemble, remove fork (item #8) from the shift arm. Remove rivet (item #7)holding handle onto shaft. Remove handle. My tractor has a detent ball and spring. Be careful not to lose ball and spring in case your has the same (these are not shown on your parts diagram - you probably don't have).

Replace the o-ring and reassemble. Put the new gasket on and button her up.


----------



## caruncles

*Thanx!*

Harry16, that's a better explanation than a Youtube video! Thanx!


----------



## caruncles

I'm Ba-ack! I also have a leak at the rear of the PTO shaft. It looks like it's coming out from around the shaft, verses from under the cover gasket. From the diagram Harry16 posted, #'s 26 and 27 are shown outside the cover (#28). What holds them in? The parts list doesn't tell what #26 is, other than "shaft" and 22 is labeled as the shaft. 
Also, do I need to go beyond #29 (cover gasket) to stop this leak?


----------



## harry16

To replace the PTO shaft seal:

1. Get a shop manual for your tractor. An I&T manual should suffice. You can get one from a Tractor Supply Stores, Internet tractor supply sources, or on ebay - $25-$35.
2. Drain the fluid from the rear differential/hydraulic reservoir.
3. Place the PTO shift lever in the engaged position. I tie it in position, so it won't come out.
4. Remove the four mounting bolts from the rear PTO cover/housing and pull the shaft out.
5. You need to replace seal #27, and cover gasket #29. Also inspect item #26, which is a pressed-on sleeve that the seal lips seal against. If it has a groove worn in it where the seal lip has been riding, you may want to replace this sleeve as well. Or you may be able to locate a double lipped seal at a bearing shop to change the sealing point. 
5. I use a large socket to install the seal. If you elect to change the sleeve #26, I used a long piece of pipe (make sure it's clean inside) that just fits over the PTO shaft, to drive it into place. Some of the snap rings can be a PITA.
6. It's been a while since I did this, and I don't remember all the steps, that's why you need a manual. 
7. When you are re-installing the shaft, shine a light into the opening and see what you have to do. You have to blind-stab the PTO shaft through a seal between the trans and rear end. Just be patient and don't get rough with it. It'll go for you. 

Good luck


----------



## caruncles

Thanx Harry16! UDAMAN!


----------



## caruncles

Harry16,
I got my O-ring replaced on the PTO lever with no problems. I'm just now getting to the PTO shaft seals. You said to remove the 4 bolts and "pull the shaft out". did you mean pull it with another tractor?  It won't budge! I've tried it with the lever engaged (as you said to) and disengaged. Not budging. It just occurred to me as I type this to crank it up and engage and disengage a few times under power. Maybe it's froze up. Did you seriously mean pull it out by hand?
'ppreciate your help! Thanx!
BTW- my PTO lever DID have the ball and detente. I don't know what year it is. I've never looked it up.


----------



## harry16

Yes, the PTO shaft should pull easily. The cover comes with it. Have you got the cover loose? Try prying on the shaft lightly. Turn the PTO shaft with a pipe wrench and pry on it again.

The only obstacles to the PTO shaft removal are:

1. The PTO shaft seal between the rear differential and transmission sections. If the shaft has a severe twist in it, it might not come through this seal. 

2. The shaft spline has to slide out of splined sleeve. If you are getting no movement, the shaft may be stuck in the sleeve. The splines on the shaft and in the sleeve may be twisted and/or galled. 

If you can get any movement, I would try to push the shaft back in and rotate it slightly and try pulling it again. Work it in and out - maybe you will make some progress. 

Last time I pulled my PTO shaft, I tied the PTO lever in the engaged position, so it wouldn"t slip out of position. Actually, the PTO shaft should come out easily, so you definitely have a problem.


----------



## harry16

You can usually borrow/rent a slidehammer from an auto parts store.


----------



## bstrang4

The external clutch linkage only adjusts the total clutch movement. The pto section of the clutch must be adjusted with the clutch out of the tractor and bolted into a clutch adjustment fixture that usually only a dealer or repair shop would have as they are expensive along with the sized pin gauges used for setting the pto clutch lift pins.


----------



## caruncles

Harry, finally got the shaft out with the housing. I just had to pound on the housing with a rubber mallet then pry with first a putty knife and later a screwdriver. All told, the shaft wasn't coming out of the housing. I pulled it all out together. The first seal was worn slap out. I (very laboriously) got the snap ring out thinking the ball bearing would slide off the other (long) end. Didn't happen. I knocked out the destroyed seal, cleaned it up and took it to the dealer and had them press in the seal and a new collar. Cost me $50 bucks, but I'm working in the yard, so it was money well spent. Reinstalled in less than 10 minutes, filled the fluid levels and fired it up. No leaks. Your help was invaluable. Thank You!


----------



## F3000tractor

I had the same problem with my ford 3000 PTO not disengageing with lever. I found burr on the spline that goes into the clutch. It was very small you could hardly feel it. I filed it away and PTO shaft slide into clutch. It then worked great engaging and disengaging. I put the shaft in and out four times before I figured out the problem.


----------

