# Mf 165 Pto Lever Plate Removal



## TippyTractor22 (15 d ago)

Hello, 
I have a Massey Ferguson 165 that I purchased recently. The pto stays on all the time. If you turn the pto off the shaft has little power, but it still spins. If the pto is turned on it works fine. I wanted to see what was up with it, so I decided to remove the pto lever plate first. I removed the bolts and tried to pull the plate off, but it appears to be attached to something inside. Any ideas on how to remove the plate or what to try to get the pto to stop spinning? I need to remove the lever plate to replace the seal, but it will not come out. I would appreciate any advise.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Tippy,.

Your 165 has an independent PTO, based upon your description. An independent PTO involves a hydraulic clutch pack with a brake to keep it from turning due to fluid drag when in the 'off' position. Your brake is worn out, allows the shaft to turn with little power. I don't think there is a brake adjustment (some later model tractors have capability to adjust the PTO brake). Many guys live with this problem, because the PTO works fine otherwise. Just be aware of this and take necessary precautions to stay safe.


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## TippyTractor22 (15 d ago)

Thanks for the reply. Since I went this far I will probably go ahead and try to change the hydraulic filter. I'm not quite sure yet how big of a job that would be. I might just live with the pto depending on how hard it would be to change the brake. I did have another question though. Does anyone know what goes in this hole in the pto lever plate. The first time I drove it after getting it home oil was pouring out the hole whenever I lifted the arms. The guy I bought it from drove it and used the hydraulics so I feel like it must have lost something on the way home. I tried asking several parts shops and dealerships and no one knows what should go in the hole because most 165s don't have one. Thought a plug might go in it but it has no threads. I would really appreciate any ideas about what might go in the hole because I'm not really sure what to put there to stop it from leaking.


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

Fedup may know the purpose of this hole.

It looks to me like someone drilled that hole?? I have no idea for what purpose. I would put a plug in it.


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## TippyTractor22 (15 d ago)

What kind of plug do you mean? I have some plugs that screw in, but I would need to make some threads in the hole for it to go into. It almost seemed to me like someone drilled the hole because there is no pictures on the internet with a plate with a hole in that location, but then again it was drilled so perfectly it almost looks factory. 

By the way, did I need to contact Fedup someway or will he/she just reply to the forum. I am new so I really wasn't sure how it worked.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Sorry, I can't help you with a purpose for your mystery hole. I do agree it doesn't look "factory", but I can't imagine why anyone would do that. The only possibility that comes to mind is a home made sump return for some sort of custom hydraulic addition somewhere. That doesn't really make sense either, given there is already a plug nearby that could have been utilized much easier for that purpose. 

Massey has been building these tractors for years. Most were based on a similar design, but with different transmission and hydraulic options. On some versions the three circles you see cast in the cover would have been drilled and threaded for O ring type fittings. Tractors equipped with certain auxiliary hydraulics options would have fittings there, with steel lines both inside and outside connecting the internal auxiliary pump with external valves. That was done on units with multipower and/or independent PTO, since the three options all operate with various versions of the extra internal pump. You haven't mentioned multipower so i'm guessing you don't have that?

As for the hole in question, I agree you should plug it. Maybe you will get lucky and it's a standard size for which you can find a freeze plug type thing. They come in many sizes. You may need to remove the cover and deal with it off the tractor. I think should you choose that option, you will need to first remove the lift cover. That's how the internal lines and linkages are accessed. It's not difficult, but needs to be done correctly or it can result in damage to the lift pump control valve linkage. I've seen (and repaired) more than one that someone ASSUMED he could just remove the bolts, pry it up and lift it off. That's not how you do it.


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

What size hole is it? Maybe 1/2" ?? Put some sealant around the plug. l









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## TippyTractor22 (15 d ago)

Thanks for the information. The tractor does have multi power, an independent pto, and auxiliary hydraulics, but the auxiliary hydraulics runs from under the seat. I have the plate off. It came off without removing the lift cover. There was just the test port line and then the shifter fork. There didn't seem to be any custom hydraulics or anything like that, but there is a raised area all the way around the hole like it was cast into the plate for a reason, but I still have no idea what that reason would be. The freeze plug might be a good idea since I wouldn't have to make any threads that way.


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## TippyTractor22 (15 d ago)

So it turns out the hole is original and factory made. It took a while, but I did find two other pictures of a mf165 pto lever plate that have a hole in the same location. This pto shifter plate looks the exact same as two others I found online. The only problem is the pictures make it hard to see what is in the hole. What is the part behind the pto shifter plate that the lever connects to called? They're appears to be a threaded hole in the "pump" looking thing right behind the hole in the plate. Not sure if maybe a bolt went through the hole in the plate and into this part? I'm not sure what to do at this point because if it is a bolt I'm not sure what it was there for.


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

If my memory is still not forgetting that hole is supposed to have a pin in that locates the PTO control valve. Usually flush outside but stick out on the inside, kinda makes it a pain to put the cover on because yo need to line up the control and the pin. You will more than likely have to replace the side cover, but you might be able to get a pin back in by taking the rh cover off but I doubt it, more than likely have to pull the top cover off. That pin may or may not fix the pto problem. Try turning the pto with the engine off if it has a lot of resistance the clutch plates are probably warped. The brake works on a ring around the pto clutch housing, it is hydraulically applied and has no adjustment. The are small and fail often, most folks don't bother fixing them. 

The cover will not come off until the line is unhooked inside where that plug is. That is the PTO / multi power test port.

If you had auxiliary hydraulics those round place by the top and rear bolt would be drilled and threaded for hydraulic fittings


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## TippyTractor22 (15 d ago)

I think you may be thinking of a different model about the pin and the PTO control valve. There doesn't really seem to be a place for a pin to go, and any new pto shifter plates I found didn't have a pin in them. It might be some kind of pin that goes into the hole, but this seems to have a little simpler setup. The only thing that connects to the plate inside is the hose you mentioned that connects behind the plug and the shifter fork that connects to the pto handle. I guess the pin maybe could screw into the hole in the part behind the plate, and then maybe the plate slides over the pin? I'm not sure. I wish there was a picture somewhere on the internet that shows what went in this "mystery" hole.


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

TippyTractor22 said:


> I think you may be thinking of a different model about the pin and the PTO control valve. There doesn't really seem to be a place for a pin to go, and any new pto shifter plates I found didn't have a pin in them. It might be some kind of pin that goes into the hole, but this seems to have a little simpler setup. The only thing that connects to the plate inside is the hose you mentioned that connects behind the plug and the shifter fork that connects to the pto handle. I guess the pin maybe could screw into the hole in the part behind the plate, and then maybe the plate slides over the pin? I'm not sure. I wish there was a picture somewhere on the internet that shows what went in this "mystery" hole.


A tractor equipped with independent pto does have a pin in that location. It supports the body of the valve Then the lever moves the valve spool to start/ stop the pto. The pin is not supposed to come out of the cover. Although the cover is aluminum and the pin is steel. Yes I have looked for pictures but can only find this video . By the way been working on Masseys for over 50 years, especially the 100, 200 1100 series. The good ones from back in the 70's and 80's. or to say it just a little different the Detroit US built ones.
Note the hole at about the 5 minute mark


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## TippyTractor22 (15 d ago)

I see what your talking about. I think the tractor has that pin in it. It just doesn't have what ever goes in that hole I circled in the pto lever cover. After watching the video, I'll look at the area with the cover off again and see if I can see anything. Thanks for the video.


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

That pin IS what fits in that hole. It is supposed to be flush outside and sticks out on the inside to hold the pto clutch in place by entering the hole in the video. I always di not onjoy putting the cover on because part of the lever went inside the housing first then you had to line up the lever to the valve and the pin in the valve housing. Just no fun getting every thing lined up and keeping the gasket in place too.


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

Busted Tractor said:


> That pin IS what fits in that hole. It is supposed to be flush outside and sticks out on the inside to hold the pto clutch in place by entering the hole in the video. I always di not onjoy putting the cover on because part of the lever went inside the housing first then you had to line up the lever to the valve and the pin in the valve housing. Just no fun getting every thing lined up and keeping the gasket in place too.


Forgot to say the pin is part of the cover and is not available as a repair part.


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## TippyTractor22 (15 d ago)

Thanks for the info Busted Tractor. So I removed the plate and I see where the pin goes, but I still don't see were it broke from the plate. Are the pins just pushed into the plate somehow or are they cast into them? Anyway I was really wondering if you knew were I could find a new plate since they don't sell the pin alone? I have been looking around, but most of the plates I find don't have the test port for the multi-power and hydraulics. I sent a picture of the area with the plate removed. I circled the hole that was missing the pin. I thought if someone is reading this post in the future they might like to see the pictures since this part is so hard to find.


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

It has been a few years since I have worked at them, but the pin is a steel pin that is pressed into the aluminum cover of course it is not tight in the pto valve. I have never seen one come out. I did notice in the parts book the pin is not listed separately, that MF only sells it as part of the cover 513335m91.
Just tried checking for used parts and they are slightly pricey. You may be able to find a dowl pin at a local bearing store and loctite it in cheaper though.

Note item #38





Search masseyferguson/651194/l | Shop AGCO Parts







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Used MF PTO COVER ASY 165

*NOLT'S EQUIPMENT*
*403 CENTERVILLE RD A, NEWVILLE, PA 17241*
*Primary Contact*
*ERVIN NOLT
717-776-6242*

Nolt's deals exclusively with Massey and has a lot of salvage tractors he is disassembling.
You may also just try searching the net for that part number or even Massey salvage yards.
Happy Fixin'


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