# Too many options!



## Schoolman (Feb 13, 2011)

Hello all. I am a new member to this forum. I am researching which tractor would best meet my needs. In the course of various searches regarding engine and transmission durability I was often linked here and generally was impressed by the depth of knowledge exhibited by your members. So I decided to join and ask your opinions of what I should buy . I have a yard that is almost small enough to mow by hand, roughly 3/4 of an acre. About 80 percent of the yard has a 15 degree slope. I've been to salesman representing John Deere, Simplicity, Husqvarna, Cub Cadet, Kubota and Craftsman. The John Deere and Simplicity guys suggested that because of the slope of my property I should consider a Garden tractor (conquest or x500) spending more than $5000 to get a well built machine that will last. The Kubota/Husqvana guy pointed me towards a yard tractor with a locking differential for about $2600. My own research has uncovered several garden tractors from sears and Husqvarna (like gt 6000) with somewhat heavier transmissions in the $2500 to $3000 range. The Cub Cadet guy thought I would be ok with his value line of machines in the $1700 to $2000 range. I have no immediate need for any ground engaging attachments but I may want that capability in the future. I am very likely to use what I buy for snow removal. All the dealers are reputable, do repairs, are close by and seemed like good guys in that they seemed interested in providing me with a machine that would meet my needs and tolerated my goofy questions well. So should I buy a low end throw away machine and pitch it in 4 years when the transmission blows, or should I bite the bullet and buy something that will last 15 years if I take care of it, or split the difference with a medium grade tractor? Any input will be greatly appreciated.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

Welcome to the forum Schoolman! Are you a teacher? Personally, if you can afford it, the heavier duty machines will last longer than 15 years with great maintenance, and the performance will be way better too. I'd also consider resale value, as you may decide on something larger down the road. You are wise to be thinking of possible future impliments as well. With the inclines, and if you have a lot of back and fourth motion getting around obsticles and such, you might consider a hydrostat, but they are more money. Here again, and I'm not knocking the cheaper machines, but if you have the budget, the better built machines are also better desiged and will not let you down when you need it most. Others will weigh in also, but this would be where my priorities are. Have fun and please be sure to come back here and brag about whatever you end up with and lots of pictures too!


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## Schoolman (Feb 13, 2011)

Thanks for answering. That's the bottom line. What can I afford? Can I afford to buy another low end tractor and have it die on me? In the long run Its obvious that the better machines are a smarter investment. The problem is that my short run has a lot of other cash requirements right now. I have good credit and can finance, or I can borrow a bit from my 401 k and pay myself back. The light weight machines I can buy out of existing savings but 5000 plus will need to add an extra monthly bill. I'll have to convince the boss that a major expenditure is warranted. I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around spending 5000 bucks to mow a comparatively small piece of ground, if I'm not sure she certainly won't be. I'm going to need some serious ammo to close THAT sale.


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## Thomas (Nov 1, 2006)

Tractor Beam & Dealers has given you great advice.

If I,I would lean towards garden tractor..mowing slope,snow removal attachment,years of owning..,I also would take test spin on different models plus let the tractor come to you not you going to tractor for comfort.

Lately there seem to be special offers/purchase one can save handful $$'s.

Wishing the best in your quest.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

Schoolman, you could do really well on a used upper end model too you know? A John Deere 316 like what I have is a dynamite machine that could be gotten for a fairly decent price. You just need to watch or advertise on places like craigslist. Everyone wants the more desirable 318s and 420s, but the 316s are stout as hell too!


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## Schoolman (Feb 13, 2011)

That is a really good idea especially since I'm not in a real rush to buy. The downside is that I'm no mechanic, so I would need something that had been well taken care of. I'll keep a look out for older stuff in good shape. By the way I like your rewrite of America the Beautiful and whats with the puppy avatar? Do you breed Springer Spaniels?


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## Mickey (Aug 14, 2010)

With a limit on the $$$$ I'd have to second TB's suggestion at looking for a used machine. If one looks long and hard you should be able to find a little used HD garden tractor that fits nicely within your budget.

For expandability, I'd be looking at a model with a horiz shaft engine and shaft drive for the implements. With a little care a model like this should last you easily 25-30 yrs.

IMO, in the end you'll be happier with a high qlty machine that can run and last for decades and you will have long forgot the small cosmetic blemishes the machine came with when first purchased.

I still have and use my 1970 Bolens that I've had since 71. Cost new was $2k with mower and tiller.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

To further expound on Mickeys comment........ The horizontal engine configuration with a shaft running to the hydraulic drive in the older machines is about as bullet proof as it gets. A humble 316 by John Deere, isn't set up for anything but mowing. No ground attachments can be used, though it does have a drawbar hitch and AUX hydraulics at the front for different things. Despite this, and just to give you an idea of the build quality of the 316 alone, not to mention cub cadets or Bolens high end mowers, the 316 weighs over 800 pounds! As Mickey says, the feel of good ole' cast iron just makes the mowing experience that much sweeter! You'll find that the general consensus is to grab an older classic. Have we really confused you now?:lmao: Keep us informed of what direction you head in will you?


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## Schoolman (Feb 13, 2011)

Not confused just have to broaden my search. Does anyone have any specific model recommendations? I honestly would be a bit apprehensive to buy anything more than 10 years old, although I'm getting the impression that to get get something solid at my price range I may need to get something older. To repeat I'm not mechanically adept (or challenged either), but I'm concerned that a "classic" may require more TLC than I can give. A quick search on the 316 reveals that they were produced from 1984 to 1992 (although I also saw an add for one from 1998 so someone's wrong)That's too long in the tooth for my taste. Come on guys is there anything built this decade that will hold up? Please do not take this as disrespect for either your advice or your tractor. At this point I'm just trying to decide a buying strategy that will net me the right machine. Thanks again for all your help!


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

The best bet is to just watch the dealers paper and craigslist! Lots of great newer machines out there too! Also, not to twist your arm, but just because something is older doesn't mean constant wrenching. My 1983 316 has had to have the obvious service, a tire replacement recently, and I did need to change the fuel pump and my coil, in the last 19 years. Sometimes, someone will just simply trade up their beatifully maintained model for the next size up from that era. With patience, and a lot of questions and trial runs, you'll end up with something that both feels right to you and puts a smile on your face, and leaves you with money for fuel!


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## dangeroustoys56 (Jul 26, 2010)

It depends how mechanically inclined you are if you want an older machine - if you dont mind turning a wrench or two once inna while, a used tractor shouldnt be a bad idea - the cost difference between a brand new one and buying/fixing and old one is pretty big savings. 

About 18 years ago i picked up old broken lawntractors from people i knew dirt cheep, started tinkering with em, getting them running and mowing - i probably couldve sold them , but i used them mowing the 2 acres i had.

One in particular i bot a few years ago is a 1986 craftsman GTII , 18HP horizontal briggs, 44" deck - 6 speed( 3 hi/3 low) - it was in pretty bad shape and wasnt running at the time, but i figured if it ran and i ever wanted to sell it- itd be worth some decent money, specially if i picked up a front plow blade and sleeve hitch for it. Next to it was a newer 90's GT6000 with a 20HP onan ( which had no spark). I know i was the only one who had an intrest in those machines- they sat for a long time in the guys front yard- i took a gamble and got a great machine from it.

It took some time to fix it, the motor was water logged ( intake and up), original deck was shot and was pretty rusty. I made sure the motor ran first- after some work( mostly cleaning)- it did. I used the like new deck off the 'better' parts 90's GT6000 tractor , repainted the tractor, rewired it (90% of the work was just cleaning- the harder part was stripping and repainting the tractor). I paid $75 for the GTII- $75 for the parts GT6000 (try n buy a replacement 44" deck for that) - and put about $30 worth of tune up, oil change, paint and replacement fuel hoses into it. Tractor runs, mows , moves awsome, has a ton of power- all for $180 - a whole lot cheeper then a $3000 lawntractor to mow a 3/4 of an acre.

Some tractors ive gotten have taken even less money to fix - my freind gave me a running/mowing 2003 16HP OHV briggs murray with a 42" deck ( needed a serious cleaning and drive belt just fell off was all), i probably couldve used it for a while like it was - but i noticed on my inital going over that one of the deck mandrels had a bit of slop in it - a $6 bering fixed it. I bot a pair of gator blades for it recently- $12 on clearance at TSC. So that makes it an $18 lawntractor.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

Which brand are you leaning toward Schoolman?


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## Schoolman (Feb 13, 2011)

That's very impressive and it sounds as if you enjoyed it too! I've never been that interested in engines but I'm good with my hands otherwise and I can read and follow directions well. I suppose if I had sufficient documentation and time I might be able to do something similar. It must feel good to breathe life back into something that had been a pile of junk in somebodies yard. It could be addictive. But I'm not sure I'm ready for a new hobby at this stage of my career, I barely have time enough for the old ones.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

It gets worse the older you get too!:lmao:


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## Schoolman (Feb 13, 2011)

I haven't decided which brand yet. John Deere seems to have the best rep for build quality and has longer warranties. Simplicity has a reputation for the best cut. Husqvarna has a garden tractor that will probably satisfy my needs well enough for 2000 less than the other 2. Sears has the gt5000 and new gt6000 which are less expensive still. You've also got me started scanning Ebay and Craig's list for used ones. I did find a JD 316 with mowing deck snow blade weights and chains for 1500 but its kind of far away and I'm not really ready to buy yet anyway. Of the new machines I've looked at the husqvana seems the mostly likely choice. Model #GTH26V52LS has 26 hp kawasaki v twin heavier duty transmission 3 yr warranty msrp 3100. I notice that when the manufacturer touts heavy duty transmission the machine travels faster. Am I correct in assuming that if the mower speed is above the usual 5.5 mph that all the entry level machines seem to travel that the transmission is heavier? All of the machines mentioned above are supposed to go about 7 to 8 mph and have serviceable trannies. If money were no object I'd buy the JD x534 with all wheel steering as I have enough obstacles in the yard that the tighter turning radius would be handy. Unless I hit the lottery the 7500 price tag is way over budget. Even if I hit the lottery I'd feel silly spending so much for so little ground.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

How about a couple goats?:lmao::lmao:


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## Schoolman (Feb 13, 2011)

I have 2 Teenage boys which is almost as good. They'll eat just about anything (also true of goats) except grass(advantage goats)but they mow a straighter line(advantage boys). Unfortunately they're growing up fast and I'll soon lose them to college or girls or both. In the long run a tractor will likely be more reliable but not nearly as fun or interesting.


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## Thomas (Nov 1, 2006)

Have look at Wheel Horse...new also second hand,for they are sold built.


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## Mickey (Aug 14, 2010)

If I were looking at an older JD in the 3xx series I'd move up to the 318. A legendary GT by any measure. But the 3xx series wasn't really set up to take a lot of attachments nor were the attachments shaft drive. I had a 318 for at lest 10 yrs and son had a 316 for maybe 8. The Onan engine that came with these models is long out of production and replacement parts have always been spendy.

Buying an older top of the line machine doesn't mean you'll be making repairs often. Could even mean fewer repairs than going with a low cost new model. Higher end machines will likely have real bearings in place of bushings and components made from stronger designs/materials.

When I bought my Cub, money was not an issue high on the list. I was looking for something to replace my JD 318. Looked a comp JD's and Cub's. After giving both a real look over (I'm an old mech eng) I settled on the Cub. Oh, and the Cub was lower cost than the JD. It was heavier and it showed, had bearing where the JD had bushings, had bushing where the JD had nothing, trans was cast iron and shaft drive. Where it didn't live up to the JD was fit and finish. My HD mower tips the scale @ 265#, a doz grease fittings and uses tappered roller bearings for the blade spindles. Things like this will insure the machine is still running long after lower cost machines are all but done for.

2 yrs ago my son picked up a JD 455 with 60" mmm that was about 8 yrs old but looked almost new. A real beast of a machine and has a 3 cyl Yanmar diesel. Had to have it shipped half way across the country but including the shipping cost, it ran him $4200. Now sports a fel and has a pto kit that needs installing.

There are other makes and models that are in the same class as the Cub I have and the JD the sons has. Just pointing out, used doesn't mean you'll be nickel and dimed to death.


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## dangeroustoys56 (Jul 26, 2010)

Another thing that makes me steer tward older machines- made in USA. Im pretty sure most lawntractor motors today are made over seas - my older briggs motors have never given me any mechanical issues- flatheads and opposed twins are strong motors, easy to maintain , easy to fix. Only cost ive incurred after total rebuilds is plain regular maintenence items.

Newer motors tend to be loaded with plastic parts, poorly built and dont last more then 5 years. The original motor in my '82 dynamark has been running about 29 years- pretty darn good for an aluminum block motor and its never had any internal work done.

Im pretty sure thats why alot of newer high horsepower motors seem to have less power , due to detuning to meet 'emissions' standards.

Id still search for a used older tractor, that runs and mows- take it for a test drive around the yard and see how it runs - see about its service history as well ( any previous repairs) - for under $1000 or less you can still have a decent used tractor.


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## Schoolman (Feb 13, 2011)

I really appreciate all of your suggestions I've been checking ebay and craig's list and will keep you if I find anything interesting.


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## craftsmangt2010 (Feb 17, 2011)

i would try to find a used one also i have all ways been a fan off the older gts i have 3 of the older craftsman like danger is talking about and a newer gt5000 imo craftsman still makes a good tractor for the money


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## Bamataco (Apr 22, 2009)

My advise would be to get the biggest best machine that you can get. Believe me you will grow into and find jobs for it to do.


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## Schoolman (Feb 13, 2011)

Despite the prevailing opinion that I should buy a used tractor, I probably won't. I'm just going to buy something new or at least with very low hours on it. I'll just have to save up until I can get the model I want. At this point I have 3 front runners: John Deere x 500, Simplicity Conquest, or Cub Cadet GT 2000. The JD and the Simplicity are both over $5000. The Cub Cadet is 3100 + deck a 42" deck=$500 ,50"deck=$700. With the cub I'm out the door with tax and delivery in under $4000. The problem with the Cub is that my dealer doesn't know it exists. They have the GT 2500 series available which does not seem as good a fit being less maneuverable (21" turning radius vs 18" for the 2000) . Both Cubs have "serviceable transmissions" but the 2000 series is a bit faster meaning different transmissions. I posed this question in an earlier post but no one has answered yet: Does a tractor that goes faster have a beefier transmission? Does any on know if the cub 2000 series is in production? The local cub dealer has been around for years for him not to know about an entire series of tractors seems odd. He's meeting with his sales rep and will ask about the 2000s, maybe its a new line or maybe the cub web site is out of date. Anyway I'm out of time this morning, work just called and asked if I wanted overtime. If I'm ever gonna buy one of these things I have to take it. Thanks for all your suggestions,


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## Mickey (Aug 14, 2010)

Since I have a 32xx series I'm familiar with that but not so much with the 2100 & 2500 series.

On the surface it appears the 2100 is slightly larger and the x model has power steering. Also looks like the 2100 has a larger fuel tank.

Before reading too much into the brochures one has to find out if both have correct information. From Cub's naming convention one would think the 2500 has something more than the 2100 offers. I do note for the 2500 models they state the material ga for frame and deck and give overall machine weight. Not so on the 2100 models. Does that indicate differences or just differences in what the brochures state? I don't know. I also see the 2500 says the trans is suitable for ground engagement but 2100 doesn't mention this. Oversight or differences????

I did note that both series mention tapered roller bearings on the mower decks with grease fittings. This IS something to note if comparing to other brands,

While trans is shaft drive, the mower decks are belt drive. Noticed the decks for the 2500 say quick attach but not mentioned for the 2100.

Think you're going to have to get additional info from the dealer to fully understand the differences.


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## Schoolman (Feb 13, 2011)

According to some posts I read elsewhere on the internet today the gt 2000s are a new line and (if these guys are right) will be replacing the 2500s. Mickey, good question about ground engagement I'll have to make sure I ask the dealer. I think the reason thay don't give a weight is that it will vary with the deck chosen. One of the reasons I am attracted to the cubs is their heft. The 2500s weigh in at about 800lbs, much heavier than anything I'm looking at except the JD x500. I unfortunately weigh in at about 265lbs so I need the heft to handle my heft on my sloped back yard. I haven't been very impressed with the Cub website, for example I can't find information on attachments including prices on the mowing decks. So your advice on being careful about the correctness of their info is well taken. I will wait to see what the dealer has to say after he catches up to speed on the new product line.


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## Bamataco (Apr 22, 2009)

Schoolman the most important person to please here is you. I bought brand new and for a good reason. I want to work with my tractor not on it. I think thats more or less what you want to. 
If it were me I would try contacting another Cub dealer to see if they were more with it. One other thing is that the dealer you went to might be completely aware of the new series. But he is more interested in selling what he has in stock,so that he doesn't end up having out dated equipment in his shop that he needs to sell.


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## Schoolman (Feb 13, 2011)

Bamataco, the thought had crossed my mind that they might be pushing their old inventory out the door. Because I'm not buying soon (probably not until August) the dealer will have plenty of time to reduce his stock and learn his new product line. This guy is really close so I would prefer to do business with him, but it's a good idea to talk to somebody else and I certainly will.


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