# Loader bucket hydraulic cylinder size



## Believer45 (Sep 27, 2020)

Good afternoon, all. First time posting here, just found this forum.

Both the bucket tilt cylinders on my loader started leaking badly. Bush Hog uses the wire style attachment for the cylinder heads. I was able to get the heads to turn but the wires have evidently broken off inside the groove in the head/cylinder bore as they stopped moving with the heads when you turn them. OEM replacements range from $670 to just shy of $1,000 each. OEM bore is 1.75 inches. I have found aftermarket replacements that will fit for $133 each (shipping included). They have similar stroke but the bore is 1.5 inches. Since this is on the bucket tilt and not the lift cylinders my question is will the smaller bore (about 25% smaller, if my logic is working that means more speed and less power) be an issue? 

Any insight is greatly appreciated.

Thank you ------ Dave / Believer45


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

Pi×eadious squared. Is area of a circle do the math to see how much power you will lose in either direction.


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## Believer45 (Sep 27, 2020)

Already did the math. 25% reduction in piston area, figured 25% reduction in power to the bucket tilt cylinders. Given that the lift and bucket tilt cylinders are the same size and the power requirements on the lift would be significantly higher I thought I might be able to use the smaller cylinders on the bucket tilt and would not really miss the power. I thought about putting 2" bore cylinders on the lift and moving those original cylinders to the bucket but the 2" bore will not fit without modifying the brackets where the cylinders mount.

With the considerable price difference ($1340-$1940 plus shipping vs. $266 including shipping for two cylinders) and the fact it sees very little use I thought this might make sense as an option. Mostly I bush hog my back field with the tractor and seldom use the loader.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

You've got to look at rod side area too.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

You can potentially use mismatched cylinders.


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## dozer966 (Dec 30, 2014)

Do you have a hydraulic shop in your area that rebuild cylinders. If you do is bring the old cylinders there and see if they have a quick fix to split them open then you can rebuild them your self.
Just a thought


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## Believer45 (Sep 27, 2020)

Thank you both for your replies.

Groo:

Rod on the aftermarket is 1", rod on OEM is 1.25" but it seems to me the stress on the bucket tilt cylinders should be significantly less than stress on the lift cylinders. 

I would be replacing both bucket tilt cylinders as a pair to avoid applying a twisting force on the bucket when it is loaded or digging. I had not considered using mismatched cylinders on the bucket but since they feed off the same hydraulic line that splits off at a tee on the subframe by the bucket I see your point about mismatched actually working.

dozer966:

I did check with hydraulic vendors, very few will work on such a small cylinder and the one that will is 4-8 weeks out and want $375 plus parts per cylinder to rebuild so total cost would be $750. They will not do part of the job.

Seal kits for both cylinders I have along with new wires to secure the heads would cost around $100 shipped to me so I am leaning toward trying the aftermarket cylinders. I am not risking all that much as compared to new OEM or rebuilding the OEM I have.

Dave / Believer45


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

Twisting wouldn't be worse than an uneven load or prying with the corner of the bucket.
The smaller rod on the smaller cylinder ma kn es for a less drastic loss of power when pulling back


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## Believer45 (Sep 27, 2020)

I see what you mean about twisting and mismatched cylinders. I had not thought about both cylinders being balanced by single supply lines and a tee to the pair. One of the leaking cylinders is spurting badly out of the seal by the rod, the other seems to be leaking as well but I really did not check that well since I assumed (incorrectly) that I needed to do them as a pair. 

Learned something here today. I really do appreciate your expertise.


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## Jeff Fetchenhier (Jul 10, 2020)

I have been working on cylinders for 20 years and I have had your particular problem numerous times. Can you see the wire end in the slot? Most of the retaining wires that hold on the head have a hook on one end that fits in a hole in the head. Some do not. As you spin the head the wire should also spin, only if your particular wire has a hook on it. Sometimes the head and wire is corroded and when you forcefully turn the head the hook end will break off. Does the wire turn? If you can see the free end in the slot (not the hook end) pry it up a bit out of the slot and put some vice grips on it. Now as you turn the head pull the wire with the vice grips and it will come out.


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## Believer45 (Sep 27, 2020)

Jeff, thank you for taking time to help me out. 

It took a 5 foot long cheater bar to get the heads to turn in the cylinders. Once broken loose and turned a couple times both will easily turn with an 18" adjustable wrench and I could see both wires moving in the slot. On one I cannot see either end of the wire, cleaning out the slot and looking through 4 or 5 revolutions of the head. The other I found the loose end of the wire and pried it out inside the slot, turning the head (actually with very little effort) in the correct direction to feed the wire out and the wire just stopped without coming out of the slot at all. I assume the hook end broke off in the cylinder as the head turns easily enough but the wire does not move at all. I have put both cylinders in my tool shed and am working on aftermarket cylinders I found for a reasonable enough price to try a slightly smaller cylinder on the bucket tilt. 

Dave / Believer45


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## Jeff Fetchenhier (Jul 10, 2020)

When your lift cylinders start leaking you will probably run into the same thing. Try a trick I learned years ago. If you don’t own an Oxygen/Acetylene torch make friends with someone who does. If the cylinder tube is heated in the area where the ring rests (the ring goes all the way around the head) this will normally loosen the rust so the head will spin the ring out. Heat expands the metal to break the rust loose. If the head and ring don’t turn easily when heat is applied cool it down with water. Try turning it when cool. If nothing try heat again. You may burn the seals in the head but it is no big deal. They will clean out with a little effort. I usually drain the fluid out of the cylinder and push the rod all of the way in. There are seals on the piston inside the cylinder and if you burn those it is no fun to get them off the inside of the tube. It took me a while to learn how much heat to put to a cylinder to get it to turn. If you haven’t used a torch have someone with experience show you how. I use a torch quite frequently to disassemble cylinders. An essential tool for rusty, stubborn cylinders.


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