# Ford 5000 Won't crank!



## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

I just got my freshly rebuilt engine put back in on my 69' 5000 diesel. Last night after getting all the fluids filled I started trying to get the fuel system bled. It was cranking over just fine and the fuel bowl was starting to fill and then it just stopped. The starter wasn't hot, but when I hit the starter now, it just clicks one time and acts like something is locked up. I checked to make sure the engine is still free (whew!) and it is a freshly rebuilt starter. Even with a battery charger hooked to the battery, it clicks one time and nothing. Was just looking for a few things to check before I take the starter back off and run it in to be checked. 

Haying season is just around the corner and I need to get this old girl back in the game!


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## harry16 (Dec 8, 2011)

The first thing I do when this happens is to clean battery and ground connections thoroughly.

Often times, it is the transmission safety switch. Try jiggling the two speed shift lever, while holding the key in the start position. You can also try bypassing the safety switch.

If that fails, it may be your keyswitch. Jumper a wire direct from the battery Hot terminal to the solenoid


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

My transmission safety switch isn't hooked up. I thought about the key switch, so I used my pickup and jumped straight to the starter (after disconnecting tractor battery) and it was the same deal. I pulled the starter off and I'm gonna run it by the shop that rebuilt it and have them test it.


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## DANE (May 25, 2013)

Well did it start. Bypass the switch . Go from hot on starter to spade on solenoid just to right of hot terminal. Make sure tractor is in nuetral!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

Took the starter back and found that a set screw had come loose and bound up the armature. Cranks fine now. 

Got it started, but having a hard time getting it hitting on all 4. Acts like one cylinder isn't firing. I've bled the fuel system about 3 different times now and I'm getting fuel at all 4 injectors. But, it is smoking like crazy and won't clear up even if I let it sit and run. Put a little more fuel to it and then it starts popping and backfiring pretty bad. Almost like something is out of time, but I checked with the shop that built the motor and he said he timed the pump just like the manual says. Not too hard.

Not sure what to do at this point.


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## harry16 (Dec 8, 2011)

Have you had the injectors checked at a diesel shop? My tractor had a fire many years ago, and sat for 6-7 months before I got it all put back together. I had the injection pump rebuilt, but I didn't service the injectors. It ran poorly just about as you describe, until I took the injectors to a diesel shop. My circumstances were quite different from yours.

One thing that you can do is to crack the injector connections one at a time with the engine idleing and see if they each cause about the same RPM drop. If you find one that doesn't drop engine RPM's, that's probably a bad injector.

Another thing that you can do is to pull and visually inspect the injectors. If you find one carboned up on the tip, this would indicate that it's not spraying correctly. 

Another possible source of excess fuel is a faulty thermostart unit on the intake manifold steadily dribbling fuel into the intake manifold.

Do you have a CAV pump or a Simms pump? I have a CAV, and it is set at zero degrees. I don't know what the setting is for a Simms pump.


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## Viper (Nov 28, 2012)

Loosen the bolts holding the IP and rotate to adjust the timing, had to do the same thing on my 4000 after the rebuild, it smoked and ran like crap, adjusted the IP and now purrs like a kitten. I put new injectors in mine, around fifty bucks apiece.


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

I did. The injectors and the pump were all rebuilt by a very good diesel injection shop and run on a bench and calibrated before I picked them up. I may pull the #4 one out and check to make sure it doesn't have anything in it, because cracking the #4 line when it is running doesn't seem so have any effect on rpm like the others do. Next after that I guess will be to check the pump timing. Should have done that earlier, but didn't think it would be an issue. Maybe it isn't...would it run at all if the pump timing was off that much??


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

Viper said:


> Loosen the bolts holding the IP and rotate to adjust the timing, had to do the same thing on my 4000 after the rebuild, it smoked and ran like crap, adjusted the IP and now purrs like a kitten. I put new injectors in mine, around fifty bucks apiece.


Unfortunately, my 5000 has an inline pump instead of a distributor style pump like the 4000. It's a little more difficult to check and adjust.


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

harry16 said:


> Do you have a CAV pump or a Simms pump? I have a CAV, and it is set at zero degrees. I don't know what the setting is for a Simms pump.


It's a Simms pump, and according to the book, it should be set at 19 degrees advanced. I'm assuming that is where it is set...the guy that built it said he set it just like the book said to. But I have to say, that seems like an awfully big difference. Maybe, I'll have to take a really close look at pump timing. Sure acts like that is off.


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## harry16 (Dec 8, 2011)

You have to set the timing at 19 degrees advanced. Your manual should provide details/procedure to set it.


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

harry16 said:


> You have to set the timing at 19 degrees advanced. Your manual should provide details/procedure to set it.


Ok, I looked at the manual and it shows where all the timing marks should be. Question is, once I get the timing mark (19* BTDC) on the flywheel visible through the inspection window, will the #1 cylinder be on its compression stroke like the manual says? I'm gonna go ahead and drain the coolant and check the timing for myself now rather than fight this thing without knowing for sure if it's right.


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

Just thought of something else I should mention. According to the manual, the 19* BTDC timing is for a 233 c.i. motor. Mine is a 256 c.i. motor that has now been bored over 0.040 and the pump fueling was turned up a little by the diesel shop that did the work on that. I've been searching some other posts on the internet and see that pump timing can be as much as 27* in some situations. I've been through my shop manual and don't see anything other than the stock 19* reference. Any thoughts on that??


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## harry16 (Dec 8, 2011)

The simplest way is to pull the valve cover to check #1 at TDC on the compression stroke. Check that both valves are closed (rocker arms slack) on the front cylinder to confirm the #1 cylinder is top dead center on the compression stroke. That's the "Country Boy" way. No mistakes.

Then you have to open the small round cover over the pump drive gear, loosen the bolts on the gear and align the pump marks on the pump shaft and pump drive gear. Does your manual cover this?

The 256 is also 19 degrees. I would stay at that for now and see how it runs.


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

harry16 said:


> The simplest way is to pull the valve cover to check #1 at TDC on the compression stroke. Check that both valves are closed (rocker arms slack) on the front cylinder to confirm the #1 cylinder is top dead center on the compression stroke. That's the "Country Boy" way. No mistakes.
> 
> Then you have to open the small round cover over the pump drive gear, loosen the bolts on the gear and align the pump marks on the pump shaft and pump drive gear. Does your manual cover this?
> 
> The 256 is also 19 degrees. I would stay at that for now and see how it runs.


Ok...that's what I figured and what I was planning on. Just wanted to double check. The manual covers that. Just started draining the radiator so I can get the hose off and access the front pump timing cover. What a pain. Was hoping to bolt the new motor up (with the newly rebuilt pump and injectors) and have it fire right up and take off. As is usually the way for me...no such luck! 

Thanks for the pointers. I'll update after I check the current timing and see if it is correct. Guess I should have named this thread "Tractor doesn't want to run right!" Oh well. To far into this to start a new one.


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

Well, I have all the covers off and #1 cylinder set at 19* BTDC. I can see the timing mark on the pump flange, but I don't see the mark on the pump gear anywhere. Guess I'll take the 3 bolts loose and rotate the pump and see if I see it anywhere.


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

Well, I got it figured out finally. found the correct marks...I was not at 19*BTDC. Must have been on the power stroke and not the compression stroke, because after turning the flywheel a bit more I found the other pump timing mark I couldn't see. Anyway, it was off...set at about 4* BTDC. I guess that was it because after setting it to 19.5* BTDC and putting all my covers back on, it fired on the first try and purrs like a kitten!

Thanks to all for the advice. Now to start getting all my cowls and such put back on and button this old girl up!


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## DANE (May 25, 2013)

oorah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## harry16 (Dec 8, 2011)

Outstanding!! Where exactly are the timing marks for the pump?


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

harry16 said:


> Outstanding!! Where exactly are the timing marks for the pump?


The one I was looking for is stationary and part of the pump housing. It was covered up by the pump gear when I first looked and the manual isn't too specific. Anyway, once I turned the crank over a bit more it showed itself. Timing was off a lot. It was set initially at about 4* BTDC. Guess that would explain my issues.


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

Almost have her back together. Fenders next and then put the loader back on. Oh, and new decals.


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## duke7595 (Jan 23, 2012)

If I paid a mechanic to rebuild my engine and it came back like you described, well I think you have a great deal of patience.
You should send this guy a bill for the work he should have done right in the first place.
Didn't he run the tractor before you received it? I would be highly peeved at this guy, you paid
good money to have a job done right.


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## harry16 (Dec 8, 2011)

One other thing for your engine - Pick up some Ford coolant conditioner (DCA4 coolant conditioner) from your local Ford/New Holland dealer when you have an opportunity. It's not expensive and will prevent cavitation corrosion in your engine.


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## ferguson2case (Mar 7, 2012)

Persistence pays off. Oorah!


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

duke7595 said:


> If I paid a mechanic to rebuild my engine and it came back like you described, well I think you have a great deal of patience.
> You should send this guy a bill for the work he should have done right in the first place.
> Didn't he run the tractor before you received it? I would be highly peeved at this guy, you paid
> good money to have a job done right.


I suppose in most other instances you would be right. But I got a screaming deal on this rebuild. The mechanic that did it builds race car motors for the most part and because I am friends with one of his best clients he did this job for about half of what any other shop wanted. However, that didn't include running it. Without having it mounted to the tranny, I can see how little it would take to be off on the pump timing. Really only a fraction of a turn on the crank makes a HUGE difference. It was easy enough to figure out, so I'm not too upset. So far there are no leaks anywhere and the build looks very good and after my initial problem...it is running great. Much better than when I took it to him. All in all, I'm pleased with the work.


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

ferguson2case said:


> Persistence pays off. Oorah!


Yes it does!


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## oregon_ford (Jul 20, 2012)

Finally got everything back together and most everything painted. Loader frame back on but I haven't mounted my loader yet. I threw a 3 bottom plow on the other night and spent about 30 minutes turning dirt... she runs great! Power like crazy. Just working on trying to get a good break in before I start cutting hay.


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## harry16 (Dec 8, 2011)

oregon_ford said:


> Finally got everything back together and most everything painted. Loader frame back on but I haven't mounted my loader yet. I threw a 3 bottom plow on the other night and spent about 30 minutes turning dirt... she runs great! Power like crazy. Just working on trying to get a good break in before I start cutting hay.


Great report!! I'm glad that you have lots of power. It's always tempting to set the timing a few degrees advanced from the book setting. But you'll get a longer life at ~19*. Have fun with your toy.

And DO NOT forget the coolant conditioner from your CNH dealer. It's not expensive, and may save you some grief down the road. To prevent cavitation corrosion - pin holes in the cylinder walls.


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