# Broken flange on front end Ford 3000



## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

I was replacing parts on my Ford 3000 1967 Diesel with power steering

The pics show a broken flange on the front end. It looks like it is designed to hold that bolt in place. It attaches to the front frame and then a bumper in front of the fan pulley. It does not attach to the engine directly. There is a hole that allows access to the pulley bolt. What is the purpose of this flange and how would it break? 
I included my tractor serial number, model number and date of production for pumpsguy since he likes a lot of information. 
The support in front that all this attaches to looks much longer than anything listed on Messicks. It has bolt holes on the side of it. Does anyone know what it is made for?































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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

here is a pic showing the parts that should fit my tractor. 35 seems much narrower than what I have. 


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

pic










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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Please, check the Shop Manual, pdf page 5:
https://www.tractorforum.com/manuals/ford-2000-3000-4000-3-cyl-1-65-12-74-shop-manual.6/

The hex head is the end of the bolt/axle that the front axle pivots around:
http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-135240191949316/ford-front-axle-pin-c5nn3127b-13.gif
It screws into the back of the support.

I did not find a picture of the support (Part # C5NN3A042G) at Messick's, but at another supplier:
http://schlepperteile.eu/QTP-Schlep...tuetzung-Casting-44-45mm-Pin-Ford-2-3000.html
It looks the same as yours.
You are looking at a diagram/drawing, the parts can look different than "in real life". In this case, they seem to have illustrated the support for later models (# D3NN3A042D):
https://www.waltstractors.com/cgi-b...ort---Replaces-D3NN3A042D-71031.html#SID=9745
You need to follow the description text carefully when you investigate the parts list.

The flange is there to prevent the bolt/axle from unthread and loosen from the support. The bolt/axle is hollow to accept a shaft for, for instance, an extern hydraulic pump mounted on the front of the tractor. The shaft is then fitted into an adapter that you screw onto the crankshaft pulley wilth four bolts (threaded holes prepared).

The flange has probably been damaged by someone who did not turn the bolt to fit the notches in the flange, and solved it by whacking the flange in place. On the other hand, it almost look torched...


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

I wonder if the pivot bolt seized to the axle and twisted in the flange causing the keeper to crack?


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

Messicks and other New Holland dealers use the original Ford parts diagrams, so I thought it was reliable. I hope the pivot bolt is not seized. Does the pivot bolt need to be greased? There are many places that sell aftermarket replacement flanges. Is it common for these to break?


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

pogobill said:


> I wonder if the pivot bolt seized to the axle and twisted in the flange causing the keeper to crack?


I’m with pogobill on this one. Bushing seized along with uneven terrain could cause the axle support pin flange to fatigue and fail. My neighbors grandson had a much worse scenario on her Ford 4000... driving down improved dirt road with a wet 5’ round bail on the three point and not enough ballast up front ended up bouncing the front axle off the ground too many times and the front axle broke the axle support pin mounts clean off then rolled the axle under the tractor and plowed the nose into the road. Underlying cause? No grease in the zert. Bushing was gone along time ago and then a steel pin, knocking around a couple cast iron lugs for who knows how long.


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

I would get support under the front of the tractor, remove the flange support, remove the axle pin (if it will even come out with out a hot wrench) and inspect the pin and bushing. Replace the flange, replace the support pin bushing(s) and replace the support pin. Hope this helps


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

Dan of all Trades said:


> I would get support under the front of the tractor, remove the flange support, remove the axle pin (if it will even come out with out a hot wrench) and inspect the pin and bushing. Replace the flange, replace the support pin bushing(s) and replace the support pin. Hope this helps


What is a hot wrench?


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

on the the parts diagram
It looks like pin 27 is attached to support 22 with the flange and to the un numbered part behind it with the threads on the pin. The spacer 26 fits inside the spacer 21 that fits inside the front axle. The front axle rotates on the pin. 
I hope that is correct. 
Does the pin move inside the spacer or does the spacer rotate inside the bushing or do both rotate inside each other? The reason I ask, when I take it apart I need to know what moves and what doesnt to decide on what parts to replace.










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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

Apologies for that... like a Propane, Map Gas, or Oxy-Acetylene torch when used with a wrench/ socket to remove the difficult nuts and bolts.


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

JGPenfield said:


> on the the parts diagram
> It looks like pin 27 is attached to support 22 with the flange and to the un numbered part behind it with the threads on the pin. The spacer 26 fits inside the spacer 21 that fits inside the front axle. The front axle rotates on the pin.
> I hope that is correct.
> Does the pin move inside the spacer or does the spacer rotate inside the bushing or do both rotate inside each other? The reason I ask, when I take it apart I need to know what moves and what doesnt to decide on what parts to replace.
> ...


From the diagram,
#21 is the bushing, #20 is the moving part, like a sea-saw pivot point. And the actual pivot is accomplished on #27. You would need to inspect #21 & #27 and replace them accordingly along with The broken flange, #28, which tells you something is wrong (worn out) with the other parts. #26, the spacer, may be rusted to the pivot bolt #27.


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

Thanks for the replies. I never even thought about rotational movement in this location until this broke flange showed up. 


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Please, check the Shop Manual, pdf page 5:
https://www.tractorforum.com/manuals/ford-2000-3000-4000-3-cyl-1-65-12-74-shop-manual.6/


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

The page Hacke is highlighting to you (my phone won’t download) is the Ford shop manual procedure. It’s paragraph 2, Axle Center Member Pivot Pin and Bushing. This guides you to support, disassemble and inspect your front axle pin issue. It also gives reassembly instructions and torque values. Pretty short and sweet read!


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

I read that and appreciate the information. I went to remove the bolt flange and sheared the bolt. A bolt extractor was no match for a rusted bolt torqued at 75 pounds. I will drill it out and simply pit a 9/16 bolt through it with a nut. 
I went to remove the pin and had to use a 1 5/8 inch socket with a ten foot cheater bar made up of pvc and a fence pole. It kept clicking with the tremendous force we applied before becoming easier and smooth. The other end was moving but the pin never backed out as though it was stripped. We turned it many many times and it finally became loose enough for the standard cheater bar but never backed out. I assume the resistance was the frozen bushing we freed up. I have to assume the threads on the back support and/or the pin are stripped. I will attach the flange in the front and hope the pin does not come loose and come out. 


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

The pin has fine threads on it. Hitting the back of the pin with a punch type tool and a good wack with a hammer, (you already know you have no room for a punch, let alone a hammer) then turn the pin counterclockwise about 1/16-1/8 a turn after each wack should help back it out... key word “should”.
Unfortunately, the engineers figured this pin issue out way late in the model year. The late model Ford tractors have addressed the issue by adding a nut, to the back side of the pin, grease channel groove on the shank (lube the bushing) and a grease zert on the head.
Not sure how helpful that is, with your stuck pin.


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

Here is supporting data for those pins...

Model year's 1965- 06/1970 
Pin part number: C5NN3127B
Dimensions: Threaded-Hex Head, 1.750 inch outside diameter; 1.125 inch inside diameter; 4.960 inch length

This is late model data for 07/1970 and later: 
Pin part number: C7NN3127D Dimensions: Threaded-Hex Head; 2.000 inch outside diameter; 1.125 inch inside diameter; 5.875 inch length


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

I could pull the front support off the tractor, but this would be a more work than I can manage right now. When I get my shop and don’t have to work on it outside I will try it. It will be expensive for all the parts I would need to replace. Would I be able to replace my pin with a 1970 pin or would I have to replace the support with a 1970. Would the 1970 support fit? 


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

Man, that’s awful! Hope you can get it up and running soon. 
I don’t think you can use the newer ,improved, pin. It’s outside diameter is 0.250 inch’s wider at 2.000 in. OD to the original pins, 1.750 in. OD. I mean, you would have to get the bore holes machined to size for the newer bushing and That pin. Best course of action to prevent this from happening again? Well, the original was good for what, over 50 years? They don’t make them like that anymore, for sure! My thoughts? Drill a small, like 1/16”, rudimentary grease hole through the mount and bushing then drill and tap the entry to add a grease zert. I have added a remote grease hose to a steering pitman arm because it took longer to get that darn thing greased, than an oil change.


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

JGPenfield said:


> ...
> Would I be able to replace my pin with a 1970 pin or would I have to replace the support with a 1970. Would the 1970 support fit?
> ...


With the new style axle support you need a larger hole for the pin in the axle beam.
Old style axle beam:
https://www.qtponline.com/products/front-axle-beam-409924.html
New style axle beam:
https://www.qtponline.com/products/front-axle-beam-409925.html

If you go for a new style axle beam, it requires new style spindle supports.
Old style spindle support:
https://www.qtponline.com/products/front_axle_support_lh_41930.html
New style spindle support:
https://www.qtponline.com/products/front_axle_support_lh_41064.html

The radius rods are fitted to the axle beam on the old style, and they are fitted to the adjustable spindle supports on the new style. And no, the radius rods are not the same:
Old style radius rod:
https://www.madisontractor.com/c5nn3405a-radius-rod-assembly-rh-lh.html
New style radius rod:
https://www.madisontractor.com/c7nn3405c-radius-rod-assembly-rh-lh.html

You are in no hurry, as I get it. Take the thing apart when you are ready. Remove the whole front assembly from the engine, heat the threaded area. Maybe you can fit a saw blade between the axle beam and the support and cut off the pin? If so, you can then cut the remaning part and chisel it out. Weld some beads inside the pin to make it shrink/crack.

Meanwhile, give it a shot of penetrating oil now and then. It may help at the reassembly later.


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

I was thinking and that is always dangerous. What about making a new pin that accepts a nut. It would be a little longer and require threads on the end. I would have to weld a nut and washer on the other end. The other option is to weld an extension of pipe on the back side and add threads. Or just replace the support and pin. 


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

JGPenfield said:


> I was thinking and that is always dangerous. What about making a new pin that accepts a nut. It would be a little longer and require threads on the end. I would have to weld a nut and washer on the other end. The other option is to weld an extension of pipe on the back side and add threads. Or just replace the support and pin.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tractor Forum


You do not need to weld a nut to the support, and besides, it is made of cast iron/steel and is a bit tricky. Use a castellated nut. Drill a hole through the pin and lock the nut with a cotter pin.

Take the thing apart first and examine the damages.


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## EdF (Sep 15, 2014)

To see an alternative method to removing this pin, do an internet search for:
*Ford 3000 Front Axle Pivot Pin Froze In Place*


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

EdF said:


> To see an alternative method to removing this pin, do an internet search for:
> *Ford 3000 Front Axle Pivot Pin Froze In Place*


I did the Internet search, but did not get the proper link as one of the results from the search engine I use (DuckDuckGo). However, if I search for pictures it is there. I know it is not good manners to link to other forums, but I think this metod is to good to be a secret:
https://www.mytractorforum.com/threads/ford-3000-front-axle-pivot-pin-froze-in-place.148859/


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

That is an excellent outside the box idea!


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Dan of all Trades said:


> That is an excellent outside the box idea!


Indeed it is. Or, perhaps, an inside the pin idea?


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

I see what you did there! Got me hook, line, and sinker! LOL


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

I thought of what could have happened. The pin could have frozen to the bushing. When the front axle went to rotate maybe it broke the flange and stripped the threads. That is a lot if force because the pin is supposed to be torqued at 320 foot pounds. Somehow with a long enough cheater bar I freed the pin from the bushing and am left with stripped threads. I decided to keep my repair simple. I will use penetrating fluid to lubricate the bushing as best as I can. I will replace the flange. Hopefully the flange bolted in at 75 foot pounds is enough to prevent the pin from backing out. 




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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

JGPenfield said:


> I will replace the flange. Hopefully the flange bolted in at 75 foot pounds is enough to prevent the pin from backing out.


 And you could be in for a surprise down the track, pun intended !!, the main thread is stripped if I read you correctly and you are going to rely on the lock flange to hold the pin in place and the pin requires 350flbs torque when all is well.

To be on a much safer note, go buy yourself a grade 8 bolt, nut, flat and spring washer that will fit through the pin as firmly as possible, have the bolt long enough so you can thread the washers and nut on the pulley side of the pivot, at least this may give you some more safety and save the front axle assembly from dropping out and doing much more damage.

If you could drill and tap a thread for a grease nipple (Zerk) in the pivot boss, and if you don't have those tools, drill an oil hole through the boss, and that will depend on the hardness of the bush of course, if the bush was out, it would be easy to modify for a grease or oil slot with a 1mm cutting wheel.


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

I like the big grade 8 bolt through the middle of the pin. I am confused about the zerg fitting and where to drill the hole for it and the grease slot. 


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

That was just my observations for fitting a Zerk to the axle pivot, to do this the whole front would have to be dismantled and you are not ready for that yet, maybe later if you decide to dismantle the front end and rebuild, you could think about a grease fitting then.


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

I ordered 1 inch bolts with washers and nuts. I ordered 6, 6.5 and 7 inch lengths not knowing which one will work. I hope to show pics when completed. The goal of the bolt is to keep the pin in place. But if that fails, the 1 inch grade 8 bolt will hold everything together and act as a backup pin. This is a really simple and practical fix. I appreciate the advice. 


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

Here is the update on my mistakes and my final fix. The flange as shown in a prior pic was broken and of course I just had to fix it when I saw it. What I should have done was lifted the tractor up under the transmission so the front wheels were off the ground and then checked to see if the axle was able to freely pivot on the bushing without rotating the pin. If so, I could have quit and not worried about the flange. But instead I tried to remove the pin. It required a 1 5/8 “ socket with a ten foot cheater bar. It made horrible noises which was probably when I stripped the threads on the pin. The pic below shows the anatomy for my 1967 tractor.








The pin 27 goes through the u shaped support 22 and then through the axle and screws into the back side of the support. A bushing in the axle allows the axle to rotate on the pin. In 1970 the pin was made larger and no longer screwed into the back of the support, but instead had a nut on the backside. 
Back to my tractor. I used pb blaster and turned the pin until it moving freely. Maybe this loosened the bushing or just stripped the pin until it was moving freely. Now my concern was having the pin come out of the back of the support since the threads were stripped. I used a 1” grade eight, 6.5” long bolt to go through the middle of the hollow pin. The pin is hollow to get access to the pulley bolt for the fan belt or attach an accessory pump to that bolt. I used a washer and lock washer and nut on the back side to secure it. I hade to make a washer out of 12 gauge metal that acted as a spacer so the grade 8 washer was not pushing on the pin sticking out the back end. 
























This prevented the pin from coming out and acted as a back up pin. 
I had sheared the grade 5 bolt holding the flange in place. I tried extracting it and broke the extractor. I tried drilling out the extractor and the grade 5 bolt and that of course failed. So I welded the flange. If I ever need to get it off I will have to cut it off. Before welding the flange I torqued the 1 inch bolt a little over 150 foot pounds. I will check the bolt to make sure it does not loosen. 
At the very end, I checked the axle to make sure it was able to rotate on the pin with the front wheels off the ground and it moved freely with no resistance which indicated the bushing was not frozen. 
Alternatives that I did not want to pursue was to replace the front support and pin. A helicoil or other threaded insert would not have worked. The post 1970 pin with a nut was too large to fit into my pre 1970 support. Making my own support out of pipe would have failed because it would not have been hard enough steel. 
I hope this information helps someone with the same problem. 



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