# Back In Business With J-B Jr....Photo..



## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

Due to the long warranty procedure on my "fried" Super Winch, I ended not up having a choice but to air freight the actuator to San Antonio. 

<img src=http://img53.photobucket.com/albums/v162/WillieNunez/J-B_Jr_Upgrade_2_002.jpg>


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Is this the actuator you wanted or a different size? I recall in your last post on the failed winch thread, you indicated that they wanted to send you a different actuator than you wanted but didn't expound. How does it work with this configuration vs. the winch motor setup? 

Let us know, Willie and thanks for your insight! 

Andy


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

It looks more professional with the actuator set up. How does it work:question:


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

Is it a correct assumption to say the actuator replaces the winch entirely?


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Looks nice how is the fuction?? Seems like a MUCH better setup then the winch. Looking foward to a review.


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

Frankly, IMO if John Scheele had known that this Bear Linear actuator had been available at the time he decided to market his J-B Jr, he never would've used a winch(for the primary lift function). From a design standpoint, the difference between the two systems is day and night. Everyone who has ever operated a front bucket knows that you need positive-control of the vertical movement of the bucket. By replacing the winch with this actuator, you can force the bucket to go down, or force it to go up; all without any hesitation as soon as you touch the switch. Plus, with this setup, the electric motor is much more isolated from the heat of the muffler and the engine. Plus, NO MORE abraided/broken winch cables. Plus, you now have a basic attachment whereby you can remove two 1/2" bolts, and bolt on a front blade(or any other implement that requires up/down articulation). 
What is shown in the photo is exactly the upgrade kit as it comes from Johnny Bucket. The actuator itself has a stroke of 4", and the swingarm ratio produces a factor of approximately 2.8 which means that the 1,200 lb actuator will lift a bucket load of approximately 430 lbs. This also means that it can push the bucket down with an equal force, which means it can lift the front of the tractor(just like a hydraulic front bucket).
IMO this improvement is huge, and as soon as more tractor owners become aware of it, they might decide it's now well-worth the money. I believe the actuator is now standard equipment on the current J-B Jr.


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## REDGT (Mar 26, 2004)

I hope that it is, and I'm expecting mine any time now, it's been a little over two weeks since I ordered it. Wife was skeptical at first, but now suggests it will make it a lot easier to do site prep for a pool (above ground) and a lot of landscaping we are about to undertake, not to mention the garden which is nearly up to 100x100 ft. My brother-in-law has a full size Case with front loader, and I have access to it any time I would need it, but a lot of the time, it's just too big, and damages the lawn. The little GT chugs right along, naver complains, and saves us both a ton of work. With toys like these, aint life great?


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

REDGT,
Did you specify it had to have the actuator(no winch)?


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## MowHoward2210 (Nov 2, 2003)

How does this actuator work? Does it have some kind of screw drive?


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## REDGT (Mar 26, 2004)

I am "assuming" that the actuator IS the down force modification that was being discussed. I contacted the folks at JB and said that I'd order it as soon as this modification. About two weeks later, got an e-mail that it was available. SO...I have assumed that the actuator would be included. Sure hope I didn't assume wrong...gonna e-mail 'em just in case...


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Willie Nunez _
> *Frankly, IMO if John Scheele had known that this Bear Linear actuator had been available at the time he decided to market his J-B Jr, he never would've used a winch(for the primary lift function). From a design standpoint, the difference between the two systems is day and night. Everyone who has ever operated a front bucket knows that you need positive-control of the vertical movement of the bucket. By replacing the winch with this actuator, you can force the bucket to go down, or force it to go up; all without any hesitation as soon as you touch the switch. Plus, with this setup, the electric motor is much more isolated from the heat of the muffler and the engine. Plus, NO MORE abraided/broken winch cables. Plus, you now have a basic attachment whereby you can remove two 1/2" bolts, and bolt on a front blade(or any other implement that requires up/down articulation).
> What is shown in the photo is exactly the upgrade kit as it comes from Johnny Bucket. The actuator itself has a stroke of 4", and the swingarm ratio produces a factor of approximately 2.8 which means that the 1,200 lb actuator will lift a bucket load of approximately 430 lbs. This also means that it can push the bucket down with an equal force, which means it can lift the front of the tractor(just like a hydraulic front bucket).
> IMO this improvement is huge, and as soon as more tractor owners become aware of it, they might decide it's now well-worth the money. I believe the actuator is now standard equipment on the current J-B Jr. *


Not sure what you payed for the linear actuator but it sure does look EXACTLY like a satellite dish actuator. How long is this actuator? Might be able to find you some cheaper replacements if you ever need one in the future. Looks like a real nice set up Willie. :thumbsup: Let us know how well is works for you.


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

Chief,
If you had ever researched(and used) current-design linear actuators, you would NEVER say that this actuator looks exactly like a sat dish actuator. What you said is akin to saying that now that I've put a front bucket on my orange tractor, it looks exactly like your green tractor......not sure what you payed for it. Is the inference supposed to be that you paid too much?
FYI there is no replacement for a Bear Linear actuator, when it comes to using an actuator for sleeve hitches or front buckets. 
BTW the price of this last actuator is $100 more than the price of the winch it replaces. I sufferred through many frustrations using the winch(besides the 3 broken cables and burnt motor). Just imagine using your front-end loader with ONLY the lift portion of the hydraulic actuators working(depending on gravity to lower the bucket). That's how the winch worked. But now, with the linear actuator, the impression you get is that it's the way you would design it yourself. It now works like it should.


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Well considering that Bear Linear LLC is only one of 137 companies that produce rod-based linear actuators is it too far-fetched to assume that there might be other options for choice, selection, implementation and pricing? I disagree that there are no replacements for Bear Linear actuators. It is not mystical science --- just application design and selection. In any case, it appears that you have gotten pretty defensive these days with regard to your FEL loader project on your GT. 

Well, good luck with the new setup.
Andy


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

Andy,
It would NOT be too far-fetched to make that assumption. I'm sure many others have made that assumption. It'll be up to someone else to invest their time in order to find a superior, or equal, to the Bear Linear. The point that I tried to make is that it will NOT be a satellite TV antenna actuator.
FYI this will be the last time I defend, or recommend, Bear Linear. 
It's time for someone else to recommend something else. I was just passing on MY experience. I will keep an open mind, as I'm always interested in finding out a better, less-costly product. It's not as if I get paid a commission 

BTW did you receive my e-mail the other day?


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Thanks for the info, Willie! I did not get your email. Please resend it to [email protected] 

Regards,
Andy


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Willie Nunez _
> *Chief,
> If you had ever researched(and used) current-design linear actuators, you would NEVER say that this actuator looks exactly like a sat dish actuator. What you said is akin to saying that now that I've put a front bucket on my orange tractor, it looks exactly like your green tractor......not sure what you payed for it. Is the inference supposed to be that you paid too much?
> FYI there is no replacement for a Bear Linear actuator, when it comes to using an actuator for sleeve hitches or front buckets.
> BTW the price of this last actuator is $100 more than the price of the winch it replaces. I sufferred through many frustrations using the winch(besides the 3 broken cables and burnt motor). Just imagine using your front-end loader with ONLY the lift portion of the hydraulic actuators working(depending on gravity to lower the bucket). That's how the winch worked. But now, with the linear actuator, the impression you get is that it's the way you would design it yourself. It now works like it should. *


Willie, I was just trying to offer a little potential future help as well as extend a compliment. Be that as it may, it is VERY apparent that no good deed goes unpunsished with you nor are you able to accept the least bit of constructive input or suggestion. 

By the way.........after more than 20 years and several thousand hours as military pilot and test pilot; I have worked with an actuator or two and have a "foggy" idea how they are manufactured, who manufactures them, and how they work.


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

Willie,

How in gods name did you interpret Chiefs comment as negative or condescending? Have you ever seen a C-band dish and the mechanism's required for positioning? and if its not on the money you don't get a picture...I saw nothing wrong with with Chiefs suggestion....


Duc


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

I don't see it as a big deal. Yes, I owned(a long time ago) one of those horrible eyesores in my backyard. The actuator(jackscrew) was a cheap unit with a very long stroke(necessary to the application) and was rated at 150 lbs, and did NOt run off a battery! It doesn't matter what your background is, it's just that most people on this forum know the difference between a 1,200 lb Bear Linear, and a Sat TV antenna jackswcrew. I'm not defending the Bear Linear, I'm just pointing out the vast differences in design parameters and application-requirements. For all I know, a Bear Linear is pure junk. But, it's easy to figure out the negative arm ratio, the total loaded weight of the bucket(plus a little extra), and come up with a force requirement. It's obvious you'll need a compact design, and also one with acceptable speed/price/availability. 
Instead of trying to straighten me out, why don't you spend your time, come up with an acceptable actuator, and let us know about it. That's what I did, and I stand by my comments.
If what I said is interpreted as an attack on Chief, it's clear to me we couldn't have much fun sitting around the campfire.
BTW I've flown lots of airplanes, including jets(it's what I do). I've NEVER seen a linear actuator similar to the Bear Lineaer in any of them. So, what does that have to do with it? I don't know.


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Willie Nunez _
> *Instead of trying to straighten me out, why don't you spend your time, come up with an acceptable actuator, and let us know about it. That's what I did, and I stand by my comments.
> If what I said is interpreted as an attack on Chief, it's clear to me we couldn't have much fun sitting around the campfire.
> *


 You think I was trying to straighten you out here? Maybe trying to make you understand nobody was making fun of you here...

As for the campfire thingy, you would get under my nerves to quickly and I would have to toss you in the fire - just kidding 

Relax its not GW here..

Duc


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## MowHoward2210 (Nov 2, 2003)

Chief was just making a simple observation and maybe one that might help someone down the road. 

So could someone help the terminally stupid and answer my previous question is a linear actuator some kind of screw drive?


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

Hey Willie,

Take a look at this page and scroll down at the bottom...there are activators similiar ( not exact I know) with high load ratings (1,200 lbs) ...I see these types more than cork screws types...
again it was just a idea that was presented.....

Can you see how the idea was created? not so far fetched now is it? thats all that Chief was suggesting

Duc

http://www.starlink-dss.com/c-band.htm


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

It's all about helping each other. Therefore, I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying that a scrounged actuator that was designed for a Sat dish will ABSOLUTELY NOT work satisfactorily on a Johnny Bucket Jr. If you insist on adapting your own actuator, allow me to recommend you use a unit with a 6" stroke, and one that is rated at 2,000 lbs. This is how I plan to modify my Johnny Bucket Jr. And, when I'm through I'll try to sell the 4" for someone who needs it for use on a sleeve hitch. 
The reason I'll be able to get away with a taller, longer-stroke actuator is because I plan to modify the hood such that it doesn't interfere with the upper portion of the new taller actuator. I also want the additional force(2,000 lb vs 1,200) so that I can bury the bucket into a pile of material, and it'll have the power to lift its own load together with what's heaped on top.


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## aegt5000 (Feb 22, 2004)

Howard,

Here is a link that will give you an idea of how a linear actuator
works. (The only stupid question is the one you don’t ask) 

http://www.bcae1.com/actuator.htm


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## MowHoward2210 (Nov 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by aegt5000 _
> *Howard,
> 
> Here is a link that will give you an idea of how a linear actuator
> ...


Thanks! :thumbsup:


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MowHoward2210 _
> *Chief was just making a simple observation and maybe one that might help someone down the road.
> 
> So could someone help the terminally stupid and answer my previous question is a linear actuator some kind of screw drive? *


Mow, what you say is more or less the case for most typical inline linear actuators. There are various designs but for the most part on the lower cost actuators, that utilize a threaded shaft driven by an electic motor. Most satellite actuators use a reed sensor and rotating slotted wheel mechanism for sensing position. As the motor turns the threaded shaft, depending upon direction of rotation; the actuator rod either extends or retracts. 

On the UH-60 Blackhawk it uses a dual actuator set that is joined together in the middle and extends in opposite directions to optimize longitudinal stability of the helicopter. It is a much more complex system that draws input from lateral accelerometers, pitch and yaw rate gyro's, airpseed & airdata transducers, and collective stick position sensors that feed through a joint set of stabiliator analog computers (amplifiers). The data gets sliced and diced and the actuators are positioned to the optimum. These particular actuators are gear driven. Still other actuators are used on turboshaft and turbo fan engine fuel controls. Most pilots have little to no technical systems knowledge or much grasp of theories of operation. They just regurgitate mechanically memorized procedures and hope they work. Basically over paid bus drivers. Which upon reflection of Willies comments leads me to believe this is readily apparent and applies to his project here. I wish him all the luck in the world and hope his JB works just fine from here on in. 



The Bear linear actuators used in this instance are typically sold for around $350 if they are the same or similar used on the Deere hitch actuators.


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

ducati996,
I'm the guy who bought a GT for $2,300 because I did NOT want to part with any more money than absolutely necessary. It follows, that I would be the guy that would LOVE to find an actuator that had ALL the features of the one I'm using, and cost less.
Yes, I can see where the uniformed eye would see an antenna actuator and a light bulb would light up in his brain. I just do not know how to nicely say that I was THAT low on the learning curve about 40 years ago.
If any one of you had 5 minutes of experience with an electric sleeve hitch or an electric actuator on a front bucket, you would know that it's unacceptable to NOT have a limit clutch on both ends of the jackscrew stroke. So, please restrict your suggestions of a linear actuator to those that have either an internal electric limit-switches, or internal limit clutches.
Thanks


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MowHoward2210 _
> *Thanks! :thumbsup: *


Here is a good picture of an ACME thread actuator internals. Hope this gives you a better idea of what was being talked about.

<img src="http://www.keystonethreaded.com/shot_1.jpg">


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Mow, here is another good link that gives a good run down on linear actuators. 

Hybrid Linear Actuators: Technical Overview


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

In civilian commercial operations, Part 135 and Part 121, the pilots are tested on systems knowledge every 6 months. It's a PITA to learn, and re-learn, all this knowledge for the purpose of passing all the oral, written, and flying tests.....every 6 months. It would surprise you to know how much these pilots know about ALL the actuators on the airplane they are being tested. Sometimes, some of us surprise the FAA with how much we know about the airplane. But, that's not really the best trick(in commercial flying). The best trick is to stay alive. The best trick is to know the few things that'll kill you.


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## MowHoward2210 (Nov 2, 2003)

Thanks, Chief.:thumbsup: It's interesting how something that is basically simple in concept can be extended or modified to highly complex applications. Stuff I usually don't think about. Reinforces why this is such great site. 
eace:


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## memmurphy (Sep 18, 2003)

Years ago my uncle used an 18" actuator from on old mid 80's Channel Master fiberglass dish as a tongue jack on his camper. As I recall on the dish they ran 24Vdc but it seemed to work OK on 12Vdc, just slower. They used a potentiometer sensor, the hall effect and reeds became popular after that. Those fiberglass dishes were heavy. We used a winch/boom pole assy mounted on the base pole to lift them into place. We had to winch a few of them up in the air 20 Ft or so to get past signal obstructions. That was a barrel of fun. About the time I was ready to slide the dish onto the base pole a puff of wind would come along and the dish tried to pull me of the ladder as I tried to steady it. Setting a 20 ft. steel pole in the ground without a crane had it's thrills too. Thank God for DSS!  

Mark


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Willie Nunez _
> *ducati996,
> I'm the guy who bought a GT for $2,300 because I did NOT want to part with any more money than absolutely necessary. It follows, that I would be the guy that would LOVE to find an actuator that had ALL the features of the one I'm using, and cost less.
> Yes, I can see where the uniformed eye would see an antenna actuator and a light bulb would light up in his brain. I just do not know how to nicely say that I was THAT low on the learning curve about 40 years ago.
> ...


Willie you are pushing your luck with me big time...I didnt suggest it in the first place....you read and understand what you want and then change it because you dont understand what you read....Since your comments have been rude I will return the favor back and I'm much better at it...you my friend are penny wise and pound foolish....Do you really think you are that intelligent ?? who you kidding?  

Duc


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

Duc,
You're right, I'm not THAT intelligent, at least I don't think so 'cause I've known many people who were a lot more intellingent than I. I truly believe one's IQ is determined by the blueprint in one's genes. I wasn't as lucky as others. 
"Penny wise and pound foolish".....? Right again, except I don't know the source of a less-costly 6" actuator that satisfies the criteria. And, I'm not intelligent enough to make an antenna actuator work on my J-B Jr. And, as far as my choice of affordable tractors with a front bucket goes, this is all I can afford and it's working for me. I have moved a lot of material, and I'm about half done, and having a good time doing it. And, I've kept my hobby intact by operating a tractor, and planning/savoring my next mod on this J-B Jr. The $215 that the mod will cost means I won't buy a fishing reel, but since I have plenty of those, it won't be a bad trade-out.
To me, you're not rude....., I don't even know you. To me, you're just a guy that has a couple of neat tractors, and some other neat toys.


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

To all readers,
I want everyone to know I'm dead serious about the importance of the internal limiter clutches in an electric actuator. As soon as you start using one, you'll know the reasons right away.


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Willie, Thanks for clearing up the fact that as soon as I realize the importance of internal limited clutches in an electric actuator, everything in my life will be complete.  You have to come to term with the fact that while you believe the world and its axis spin around your omniscient ramblings and the overall importance of your next "mod", you have a very jagged edge with your condensending attitude. I for one do not find anything commendable nor pleasantly eccentric about your disrespect of fellow members. Personally I don't care if you attach a carbide spinning grinder to the front of your GT attached with a new titantium frame exoskeleton so you can build tunnels in San Antonio, it still doesn't make this acceptable behaviour. I think we have all demonstrated support, encouragement and appreciation for your efforts thus far, but please refrain from belitting others because they "appear" to share contrasting levels of understanding on your modifications. Your campaign while interesting is not that important in the grand scheme of things. 

We all have something to share. 
Andy


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

Andy,
That sounds fair enough, thanks for the guidelines. Next time I've got something to share, I'll be more careful of the wording.


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

Hey Willie,

It just so happens that Kevin Beitz
posted the same freakin helpful suggestion on GW...
As most of you people already know Kevin as being one of the most creative and handy tractor specialist's around, and someone who is definitely highly intelligent.....

Cosmic coincidence? Or is it Willie just being a bonehead? 

Duc

=============================================

Posted by: kbeitz NE Pa. (My Page) on Mon, Jun 7, 04 at 4:24

If every one wants to save a buck, go to your local junkyard and take an actuator off an old c-band TV dish. 
Most of them are 36 volt but will work just fine on 12 volts and most of them have micro-switch adjustable stops built inside. This is what I use on this tractor. Junkyard cost $5.00


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Kevin knows the real deal just like Chief mentioned above. You can pay $200-300 or you can simply use a little bit of sense and find a way to convert one inexpensive unit to work for your needs. Sounds like Willie needs to broaden his horizons and learn to listen to others for advice.

Andy


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## luckycharms (Dec 4, 2003)

Maybe a nice bowl of luckycharms will help cool your heels, Willie?
Looks to me like good ole' folk just trying to offer a helping hand to ya. Maybe the Texas heat is getting you a little heated? Try relaxing and listening as others have stated. It might help you to realize that not everyone of us are stupid, uneducated fools without any practical experience.

-LC


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

Andy,
The title of this thread is about Johnny Bucket Jr. My statements were consistent with this title. FYI Duc has taken the liberty of introducing Kevin's application, which if you were to see it, you would right away know that it's on a crawler with a front blade(not a bucket). And, Kevin does NOT say that he used the TV antenna actuator for the primary lifting force. My response is that since this is about Johnny Buckets, lets see someone's inexpensive linear actuator that's adapted to a J-B Jr. Or, at least let's start a thread, with photos, of at least one application of a TV antenna actuator that is being used on a tractor bucket. Is it so offensive to say that it won't work satisfactorly? To hear you guys talk about it you'd think that I was standing in the way of someone wanting to use such an actuator for this purpose. I posted photos of my application, and it made a believer out of you. I would become a believer too, just show me the photos.
Yes, obviously you could conceivably use an inexpensive actuator for several applications, but we're talking about front buckets(on this thread).
It's not a Willism either. John Scheele, the J-B inovator, came to the same conclusion. Why not just ask him, let's cut to the chase.


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## luckycharms (Dec 4, 2003)

I think you have a need to prove yourself to people who generally could care less about your knowledge or your inventions. If you want to be admired for your intelligence and your contributions to the work of garden tractors or engineering, try being humble, open-minded and objective. It definately sounds like you are one arrogant, confrontational guy who just has to prove his point, has to be right and has to show everyone else how naive they are. 

Simply not a health place to be Willie. Here have some luckycharms and smile.

-LC


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

LC,
I've tried that already. What I'd really like to be admired for is my vast amounts of material assets and cash $$$$. And, since that ain't gonna happen, all I've got left is a smile. Lucky Charms to you too.


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