# Head hurts 52 Ford 8N



## Phil528nshovel (26 d ago)

Acquired this tractor in the spring, started at first and then nothing. I have replaced starter, push button, key switch, and somewhere in the area of 7 or 8 solenoids. It was converted from 6 to 12 volts in the Michigan upper peninsula. I have rewired following four different schematics that I thought were relative. But I keep coming back to the fact that after I put a new solenoid on the starter, I have voltage at the small engine side switch post. How is this possible when the polarity has supposedly been reversed in the conversion process? How can an insulated post have voltage just from mounting the host?


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## Rolex (11 mo ago)

A photo and diagram would help me but I can tell you if you have a bad ground the positive power can show up where there should be no power.


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## Phil528nshovel (26 d ago)

I am still trying to wrap my brain around it. Whoever did the work on the tractor bypassed the safety start switch so there is a push button switch in the dash. But they ran the solenoid wire to one terminal and the other to ground, which is the way the 6 volt system operated which would make sense but with a negative ground I still don't understand how the insulated post can be energized with no power running to the solenoid. I will snap a few pics tomorrow but I need to warn you the wiring is a mess haveing run five different configurations in the last two days. The last one I tried was a typed one that I thought was fool proof.... hung it up after that.


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## Phil528nshovel (26 d ago)

Thank you for responding!


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Phil528nshovel said:


> I still don't understand how the insulated post can be energized with no power running to the solenoid. I will snap a few pics tomorrow but I need to warn you the wiring is a mess haveing run five different configurations in the last two days. The last one I tried was a typed one that I thought was fool proof.... hung it up after that.


Could be a good possibility if you have the battery cable and the starter motor cable connected to the wrong terminals on the solenoid.


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## Old Graybeard (1 mo ago)

When I run across this type of issue I just start all over and re wire the whole thing , this way you know what's what


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## Phil528nshovel (26 d ago)

That is just the problem. I don't know what the basics are. I am seeing schematics that run thru the amp meter. I am seeing them not running thru that. I have tried like four variations from schematics, one from typed description. I am still lost after just pysically mounting solenoid with absolutely zreo wires connected to it, the single side post is showing 12.57 volts. How is this even possible? I was thing about running voltage to the push button but that would be throwing 12 volts at something that is already showing 12 volts. This does not seem like a good idea. Any absolute basic drawings that I could start with?


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## Phil528nshovel (26 d ago)

this is the last one i tried...


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## Phil528nshovel (26 d ago)

Phil528nshovel said:


> View attachment 83879
> this is the last one i tried...


Would appreciate any input! Thanks


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## Rolex (11 mo ago)

Is the solenoid mounted to and part of the starter motor ?

If yes ? as FredM has said if you have the battery cable bolted to the wrong terminal on the solenoid you will get power at the small terminal.

That type of solenoid can have 2 coils inside, one to pull in and one to hold, the pull in coil gets its ground through the starter motor and that post.

So if the battery cable is on what should be the starter post there will be battery voltage at the small start terminal.

All I would expect to see is a battery cable to one big terminal, the starter motor on the other big terminal and the starter button putting power to the small terminal.

Some extra wires may join at the starter to power other parts of the system but the starter just needs the 3 wires and to be bolted to ground.

If you bridge the small terminal to the battery terminal the starter should run.


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## Ford5610II (Jun 11, 2020)

A new engine wiring harness for an 8N is about $60. And it comes with color coded wires and a diagram that tells you where to hook each one up. When Old Grey Beard said start over, I would echo that sentiment in a literal sense: START OVER. The few $$ are peanuts compared to effort of trying to figure out someone else's haywire and duct tape efforts. Good Luck!



https://www.steinertractor.com/ABC079-Economy-Wiring-Harness?mkwid=|pcrid||pkw||pmt||slid||pdv|c|product|ABC079|pgrid||cpgnid|18347629182|ptaid||adtext||&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtICdBhCLARIsALUBFcHx2iO93AQSYOV-S6UNBfKRj3s6Bvqjr5aFpm9eRBrweRmjMF5y2h4aAtMjEALw_wcB


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## Rolex (11 mo ago)

Remove all wires from the solenoid.

Use a meter or powered test light.

Test for continuity between the small terminal and each of the big terminals.

If you find continuity to one big terminal that is the side the starter should bolt to

The big terminal with no continuity is the one the battery should bolt to.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

So we can help you better, we would like photos,--- back of the alternator showing the connections, voltage regulator if fitted and used, starter motor and solenoid setup, ignition switch and start setup, battery connections both to battery and to tractor.

That will do for starters Phil528nshovel.


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## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

Phil528nshovel said:


> Acquired this tractor in the spring, started at first and then nothing. I have replaced starter, push button, key switch, and somewhere in the area of 7 or 8 solenoids. It was converted from 6 to 12 volts in the Michigan upper peninsula. I have rewired following four different schematics that I thought were relative. But I keep coming back to the fact that after I put a new solenoid on the starter, I have voltage at the small engine side switch post. How is this possible when the polarity has supposedly been reversed in the conversion process? How can an insulated post have voltage just from mounting the host?


from the pic I uploaded the solenoid will bolt on top of the starter then have a copper strap from one big post to the post on back of starter, a wire from push button to small post on solenoid and the battery cable on the last big post. if you have voltage at the small post on solenoid when button pushed then the button wiring is good. double check voltage at battery cable on solenoid. if all is there. you have a poorly grounded starter to engine. the starter & solenoid will work with either polarity,postive ground or negative ground. another good test is to use jumper cables and put voltage directly to post on back of starter


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## bobaloo11 (2 mo ago)

Step by step info here:




I hope it helps.


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## MEL NANCE (Sep 26, 2018)

The small terminal on the solenoid gets voltage through a coil inside solenoid that internally connects to the battery side of solenoid if you have a negative ground. system this voltage should read positive in reference to ground. When the start push button switch is pressed it should ground this terminal in turn causing the solenoid coil to connect battery voltage to the starter , you should measure voltage on both sides of solenoid only when start button is pressed. The small terminal should read near zero while button is pressed , if not check for proper ground on start push button switch . The original solenoid for this tractor has a 6 volt coil which will probably work for a while but I recommend changing to a 12 volt solenoid long term. note: your solenoid and starter doesn't care if it is a pos. or neg. ground but the charging system does especially if it has an alternator most alternators only work on neg. grnd. systems. If you have battery voltage present on both side of solenoid and starter doesn't turn check connections on starter wire you can also momentary jump battery voltage to starter if it doesn't turn I would check starter , sometimes the screw that battery connects to will turn and loose connection inside starter. I have fixed this problem before but it is a PIA ,requires taking starter apart. note: if your solenoid has four terminals (2 large & 2 small) then the coil probably gets voltage externally but trouble shooting is almost the same . good luck


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://ntractorclub.com/manuals/tractors/1948%208N%20Operator's%20Manual.pdf


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Yeh!! my head is hurting from a machine that is so simple in the electrics department to somehow being very complicated to wire up and get running, and next to no communications from the original poster.

I wonder how many times he has rewired the tractor since his post??.


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