# Discing a field



## Wandering Man

Did I even spell that right? Anyway, I'm not exactly a city slicker, but I come late to the world of tractors. 
And now I have to confess I'm not even sure I know how to pull a disc. It looks to me like my second (back) row of disc gangs just barely scratches the soil. The front discs dig in fine, but I can't seem to find the right angle for my top bar. I've set the disc level and I've set disc so that it tilts toward the back discs.

I've not tried shortening the top bar, yet.

After several attempts, I finally got a 55 gallon drum with 30 gallons of water attached to the disc, and the rear blades still don't dig very deep.

What's the proper way to set the disc?


----------



## pogobill

Hey Wandering Man. If you lengthen the top link, that should drop the back row of discs down. I'd set the disc level, on level ground, and then lengthen the top link as required to get both rows of discs to cut at the same rate. If you are maxed out on the top link, maybe you need a longer one?


----------



## HarveyW

You may also have to add some weight on top of the disc to improve penetration.


----------



## bmaverick

Wandering Man said:


> The front discs dig in fine, but I can't seem to find the right angle for my top bar. I've set the disc level and I've set disc so that it tilts toward the back discs.
> 
> I've not tried shortening the top bar, yet.
> 
> After several attempts, I finally got a 55 gallon drum with 30 gallons of water attached to the disc, and the rear blades still don't dig very deep.
> 
> What's the proper way to set the disc?


Disc'ing is something I tend to do the most of. 

What size tractor and what size disc harrow are you using?

Is the disc harrow all dish type or does one gang row have notched discs?

As PogoBill mentioned, lengthening the top-link will allow the back end of the disc harrow to lower. Additionally, when hooking up to the 3PT, be on level ground, and ensure the lower arms are level with one another and the ground too. A long carpenter's level is what I tend to use and laying it across the arms. 

Keep the 3PT lower arm sway chains or bars tight as this type of equipment likes to jar left or right when something below the ground is snagged.

Now, about adding weight to the disc harrow. Some lessons learned over the years.    

- Know the soil. This is a huge impact on setting up the weights. Is the soil sandy? Clay? Compacted? Too moist? etc.
Once the soil is understood, the amount of weight and it's location on the disc harrow will provide great results and less hard work of the tractor.

- The type of weight is very important too. As mentioned above, a 55-gallon barrel with water is very adjustable with filling it to maximize the effects. However, it too has some short comings, especially when raising the 3PT and making a 180 turn. It's very hard on the 3PT lift system with that rather large swishing momentum happening. I've tried a few things and found the solid concrete 4-inch thick blocks work the best. I can add or take away without the momentum swing issues.

- Some of the disc harrows have the ability to adjust the attack angle. The more aggressive, the higher Hp and RPMs the tractor must do. You need to tune the disc harrow to your setup before taking on the big field job.

- ALWAYS inspect the discs before going out. A cracked or clogged disc system will bring more trouble, down time and expenses.

Once all this is understood, it becomes natural before heading out to the field. I really enjoy disc'ing over mowing or any other function with the tractor. It's peaceful and has a soothing effect to just cruse along.

OK, lots to take in here for sure. Just be safe hooking up and enjoy the ride!


----------



## Wandering Man

Thanks everyone. Below are pictures of the tractor and disc. The tractor is a JD 3025e. I've ended up with the 55 gallon barrel filled with 30 gallons of water. Keeping the barrel on the disc took a lot of attempts. I think I finally have a good set up for that.
You can see by the picture that I've extended the top link quite a bit. 
The soil is sandy clay, and very dry. We are re-entering drought conditions this week, and are about 12" short of our annual rain fall (24" over the last 24 months).
I've got both sets of gangs set to the most aggressive level.


----------



## bmaverick

Wandering Man said:


> Thanks everyone. Below are pictures of the tractor and disc. The tractor is a JD 3025e. I've ended up with the 55 gallon barrel filled with 30 gallons of water. Keeping the barrel on the disc took a lot of attempts. I think I finally have a good set up for that.
> You can see by the picture that I've extended the top link quite a bit.
> The soil is sandy clay, and very dry. We are re-entering drought conditions this week, and are about 12" short of our annual rain fall (24" over the last 24 months).
> I've got both sets of gangs set to the most aggressive level.


Nice Yanmar FX-Series tractor painted JD green.  It's a great machine. 

On the 3PT lower arms, the 'lift' arms should have the ability to connect in 2 or 3 places. This would help the disc harrow to be level vs having to extend the top-link out to the max. When you get time, take a pix of this area on the tractor. Then we can discuss how to move them to another hole setting to improve the 3PT to the disc harrow. If you do 3PT mowing, this would help too. 

So, the disc harrow has 2-gang rows of notched discs. It should really tear up the soil. That arrangement is very good for fields near wooded areas to snap the tree roots from taking over the pastures. 

OK, sandy soil. I have that same issue up here just off of the Northern part of the Mississippi trunk rivers.


----------



## Wandering Man

bmaverick said:


> Nice Yanmar FX-Series tractor painted JD green.  It's a great machine.
> 
> On the 3PT lower arms, the 'lift' arms should have the ability to connect in 2 or 3 places. This would help the disc harrow to be level vs having to extend the top-link out to the max. When you get time, take a pix of this area on the tractor. Then we can discuss how to move them to another hole setting to improve the 3PT to the disc harrow. If you do 3PT mowing, this would help too.
> 
> So, the disc harrow has 2-gang rows of notched discs. It should really tear up the soil. That arrangement is very good for fields near wooded areas to snap the tree roots from taking over the pastures.
> 
> OK, sandy soil. I have that same issue up here just off of the Northern part of the Mississippi trunk rivers.


I took these pictures last night:



















Will these tell you what you wanted to see? 

The area had already been cleared of most of the huisache and mesquite trees, but was thick with grasses.


----------



## bmaverick

OK, there is one shot of the area in a somewhat view angle. 

I've circled the area below. On the Yanmar machines, there are typically 3 sets of holes to move those lift arms for other positions. Not sure if JD went with this method in their specs to Yanmar. The furthest away the lift arms are mounted to the 3PT lower arms, the lower the lower arms will become. 

For what I can see, you might be able to swap the stay chains with the lift arm positions. 









ALSO, on the disk harrow, is that an OE John Deere type? I notice the green bar with a hole in it. Would that work with the draft control option? What's the bar's used for?


----------



## Wandering Man

bmaverick said:


> OK, there is one shot of the area in a somewhat view angle.
> 
> I've circled the area below. On the Yanmar machines, there are typically 3 sets of holes to move those lift arms for other positions. Not sure if JD went with this method in their specs to Yanmar. The furthest away the lift arms are mounted to the 3PT lower arms, the lower the lower arms will become.
> 
> For what I can see, you might be able to swap the stay chains with the lift arm positions.
> View attachment 64471
> 
> 
> ALSO, on the disk harrow, is that an OE John Deere type? I notice the green bar with a hole in it. Would that work with the draft control option? What's the bar's used for?


Yes, it is a JD disk harrow. The green bar is used to adjust the angle of the front discs. There is a similar bar in the back for the back set.

Thanks for the advice. I'll give it a try this afternoon. I've only got a small section left to disc, and then I'm going to start spreading my wildflower seed. We've got a 30% chance of rain tomorrow. I hope some of it fall on my field.


----------



## pogobill

There also looks like there are some holes below the lift arm pins.... are they there to install pins lower on the disc frame as well.... as an option?


----------



## bmaverick

pogobill said:


> There also looks like there are some holes below the lift arm pins.... are they there to install pins lower on the disc frame as well.... as an option?


Good point. He may pick up a few inches with the lift arms in the lowest holes.


----------



## Clifford B.

When the disc is set up right it will make yer tractor grunt fer every foot of forward motion on the most aggressive angle with the draft control
working properly.
That is after you bust the crust and cut up the over growth...
My 8n does it without any added weight on a 6 foot disc....
I like my C tine spring harrow to dig deep and also build rows...


----------



## bmaverick

Clifford B. said:


> When the disc is set up right it will make yer tractor grunt fer every foot of forward motion on the most aggressive angle with the draft control
> working properly.
> That is after you bust the crust and cut up the over growth...
> My 8n does it without any added weight on a 6 foot disc....
> I like my C tine spring harrow to dig deep and also build rows...


The OP has sand like I do. Once the surface is broken, the disc harrow moves smoothly without the tractor grunting. Sand is like cutting into butter.  However, moist sand is like cutting thru concrete.


----------



## Wandering Man

I went out to the property today and decided I needed bigger wrenches and more time to do things properly. So I lengthened the top link to the point that the back of the disc almost touched the ground when raised. That got the discs deeper in the ground. 

I spent the afternoon running the disc one last time, and then spread my wildflower seed with a hand-held spreader. I finished after dark dragging a 4X4 across the soil to bury the seed.

With any luck, and some rain, my bees will have some flowers to pull nectar and pollen from beginning in the spring and going through Summer's dearth and Fall.

And for those of you who are beekeepers, yes I know they will need a lot more than my little acre of flowers. I just want to contribute to their overall supply.

Thanks everyone. I've learned a lot just from this one question.


----------



## Clifford B.

bmaverick said:


> The OP has sand like I do. Once the surface is broken, the disc harrow moves smoothly without the tractor grunting. Sand is like cutting into butter.  However, moist sand is like cutting thru concrete.


I have volcanic sand loam here, the worst is when it's wet cuz it turns 
into glue and sticks to the discs making four rolls of mud behind 
the tractor that can stick you in the field till you clean it out.
One serous pain in the arse, ask me how I know.......


----------



## Clifford B.

I am looking to introduce a lot of clover seed to my open
areas for bees and start a small apiary.
I love mead and buying honey to make it is cost prohibitive.
The cost of clover seed and apiary equipment here is petty high but I'm thinking
worth it, not only for my use but the scary shortage of bees in general
for pollination anymore..............


----------



## bmaverick

Clifford B. said:


> I am looking to introduce a lot of clover seed to my open
> areas for bees and start a small apiary.
> I love mead and buying honey to make it is cost prohibitive.
> The cost of clover seed and apiary equipment here is petty high but I'm thinking
> worth it, not only for my use but the scary shortage of bees in general
> for pollination anymore..............


AWESOME sir! 

When I mow the pastures, I don't mow golf course high. Instead, I mow above the clover flower tassels to keep the bees happy. Same for around the house. Some people think clover is a nasty weed and use the roundup to rid the plant away. Sad. Clover is one of the last lines of defense for our pollinators to remain alive on our world. Without them, how can the world survive without food???


----------



## bmaverick

Clifford B. said:


> I have volcanic sand loam here, the worst is when it's wet cuz it turns
> into glue and sticks to the discs making four rolls of mud behind
> the tractor that can stick you in the field till you clean it out.
> One serous pain in the arse, ask me how I know.......


That is a pain 2X over just our riverbed sand. Volcanic sand loam disc'ing is like turning over sand paper. Your discs should be nice and shinny after a plow session.


----------



## FredM

Wandering man, I want you to look at your photo of how the links are setup, can you see what is wrong with the setup?, -- the lower links are not horizontal with the top link for one and this will cause the rear discs to lower when the links are raised and the rear discs will raise when the links are lowered, can you see that?, you need to shift the Cat 1 pins on the disc chassis to the lower holes and by doing this the top link and lower links will almost be parallel to each other and the disc set will almost raise and lower parallel and that should overcome your problem of no pressure on the rear gang set, and you will be able to lengthen or shorten the top link to adjust the rear gang penetration, study your photo and you will eventually see the problem.


----------



## Clifford B.

bmaverick said:


> That is a pain 2X over just our riverbed sand. Volcanic sand loam disc'ing is like turning over sand paper. Your discs should be nice and shinny after a plow session.


Like chrome ...............


----------



## bmaverick

FredM said:


> View attachment 64537
> 
> ... study your photo and you will eventually see the problem.


And the one arm looks like it got bent or something.


----------



## lewis cassill

Wandering Man said:


> Did I even spell that right? Anyway, I'm not exactly a city slicker, but I come late to the world of tractors.
> And now I have to confess I'm not even sure I know how to pull a disc. It looks to me like my second (back) row of disc gangs just barely scratches the soil. The front discs dig in fine, but I can't seem to find the right angle for my top bar. I've set the disc level and I've set disc so that it tilts toward the back discs.
> 
> I've not tried shortening the top bar, yet.
> 
> After several attempts, I finally got a 55 gallon drum with 30 gallons of water attached to the disc, and the rear blades still don't dig very deep.
> 
> What's the proper way to set the disc?


----------



## lewis cassill

Lot of good ideas here. The physics of the issue is something is causing your front gang to dig too deep into the ground. But we already know that. I have found that stepping back and just anylyzing the problem, you will see the solution instead of the trial.and error method.


----------



## Busted Tractor

Just a thought have you checked the polishing of the disks? If the angle is not set enough the disks will ride on the back side of the disk and not cut into the soil. If the back side is polished it is riding on the top of the soil. When set properly the front edge of the disk will point straight forward or point slightly out on the rear disks. so it cuts and enters the soil instead of riding on top the soil.


----------



## ck3510hb

Couple things I noted, maybe for next job. Lock that top link with the nut. Like bmaverick said, Use something solid. You have large portion of the weight on the front disc while trying to cut deeper with the rear. (you may be able to use less weight and get a better cut) Keep feeding the bee's, we plant a variety for our bee's. Did not have luck with the Buckwheat {3 acres} but boy do the love my alfalfa field.


----------



## John Liebermann

FredM hit the problem. Those bottom links must be hooked lower on the disk. 

The geometry of the hookup is definitely a problem. the ground(load) is pushing to the rear(parallel to the ground) at the disk axle and your links are hooked above that extended line and in addition pulling down. The disc reacts by rotating the rear up.You are trying to fight all that torque with the top link. If it were possible to have a perfect lineup between the pulling links and the disk axle you would not even need a top link. 

The tractor hydraulics do not participate in how the disc cuts, that is all set by the disk settings and to a lessor extent weight. The Tractors draft control therefore is not applicable.


----------



## Clifford B.

I have to disagree with the draft not being applicable.
when mine is in aggressive mode it digs in good enough to make the tires spin and drop the tractor low enough for the top link to activate the relief and let it ride up some to keep goin.
That was Ferguson's reasoning on draft control as I have been taught
and experienced, YMMV......


----------



## TX MX5200

I agree with Fred...need to drop the pins to bottom hole on the disc..the lift arms are are working against the top link the way its setup.


----------

