# Bottom plow, disk harrow or 3 point roto tiller.



## Xandrew245x

Hello, I'm looking for recommendations for implementing for my hobby farm. I currently have two 100'x50' plots. 

From researching I seem to be getting a lot of mixed answers. What are the advantages/disadvantages to a bottom plow/disk harrow combination vs the advantages/disadvantages of a 3 point roto tiller. 

From what I've read, roto tillers destroy the soil structure, but are much quicker and easier at getting the job done. Plow/harrow is best for soil structure but is a much longer process. 

Looking for advice from someone who has experience using them.

Thanks.


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## BigT

Hello Andrew, welcome to the tractor forum. 

Back in the day, I used plow and harrow. Today I use a 5' King Kutter tiller on my tractor plus a Troy bilt tiller to make hills and furrows for planting . In my mind the tiller is the only way to go. Does a better job of breaking up the soil, and much quicker.


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## willys55

Welcome to the forum Andrew, I prefer the bottom plow myself


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## Xandrew245x

I already have a bottom plow that needs a little bit of modification and it should work with my new holland. I was looking at tillers today and found a 48" king kutter tiller shipped to my door for just a little over $1600. 

What I would like to do is plant cover crop late summer and then plow it in the spring, then prepare the seed bed either via tiller or disc.


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## sixbales

Andrew, what it comes down to is you. You decide which way you want to go and go for it. Either way works fine.


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## Xandrew245x

I found this disc on Craigslist, will this disc work well to break up my plowed soil, I'm concerned about it being to light.


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## HarveyW

You can always add weight on the disc to improve penetration. Multiple passes will also help. 

Regarding your plow, You might consider simply putting a longer horizontal bar on it to improve how the lower lift arms attach. Add some diagonal braces to strengthen it to prevent bending.


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## Xandrew245x

He wants $325 for it which I feel is a but steep, but that's the cheapest one I can find anywhere.

I still plan on using my walk behind tiller because I am going to be making raised rows, but I want to plow/harrow combo to turn in my cover crop and get thr ground ready for my small tiller. 

For my plow I was thinking of adding a piece across the plow frame with attachment pins to get thr proper spacing for the lift arms, then add a longer vertical piece for the draw bar. 

I would really like a 3 point tiller, but in the end I will still be using my small tiller.


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## Xandrew245x

I ended up buying the disc, had to weld on some extra support where the implement attaches to the three point hitch. I also went and bought a middle buster from tsc.

The middle buster works pretty well, but I have two issues with it. One issue is, I had to buy the shortest top link I could find, which ended up being a cat 0. It is still a bit long, and I can't get the angle of the blade down far enough to consistently suck down like it should. Second issue is, it tends to tilt left or right on the three point hitch and then doesn't get any bite and suck down into the ground. Other than that it works fairly well and I managed to get the plot broke up.

After bracing the disc, I added on 250 pounds and went to work and it actually did a fairly good job of breaking up the large clumps of dirt and grass. I'm going to let it sit a bit and let the grass die off more then disk it again, should be good to go then.


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## tcreeley

I like using the tiller on my tractor.Dirt is fluffy when I am done. I have also read that multiple passes is bad for the dirt.
Oh well.
I started with old pasture and I till spring and fall. Every year the soil gets looser and better, even with the rocks. I have an old single share plow I used to use with my Farmall Cub. The problem I had there was that it would bite too deep and pull up gray clay that was below the top soil. The tiller doesn't do that.
I have the







one of these and it worked well after plowing (-also works well to recondition gravel drive when too much grass is growing!) with this set up (image off google). - Still have the plow.







(I could even plow in a circle!)- You use what you have and what is handy.
I like the tiller. (right after it arrived in March 3 years ago - http://www.agrisupply.com/tillovator-with-slip-clutch/p/77710/


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## Argee

Hi Andrew.... I'm a little late to this discussion, but here's my two cents worth just the same.

I have a similar size garden (60x150) that I've been working for quite a few years. My soil is a sandy loan structure that drains well. I use a 3PH, 72" tandem disk harrow that I attach to my Ford 1715. This combination works great in readying the garden for the planting season. After several passes over the course of a couple of weeks I drag it with a spike tooth harrow to ready it for planting.

Hope this helps in your adventure.


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## Ken1945

As usual I am a dollar short and a day late. My garden is about an acre sometimes more. But, the answer to your question is:
1. if you want to go fast tilling your garden no matter the size then get a single, or a double if your tractor can pull it, bottom plow.
2. If you really want to get it done even faster then find a 5 or 6 foot, maybe bigger depending on pull power, disk harrow.
3. if you want to go slow, like me some of the time, I'm 72, opt for an old used yanmar rice paddy tiller, I got one from a friend in Florida for free. I put a new set of shaft bearings and tines on it and works great. Doing the work myself it cost me 300 bucks. They are the toughest tillers you can get. I've even got some pictures posted on one of the sites.
Now having said I want to go slow, as I look back now, I think, I would rather have a 6 or 8 foot disk set, and I'm looking for one as I write this. I've gotten to the point I like to get done faster so I have time to watch the grass grow and the birds fly around, out where the deer and the antlope play.

Have a great day gang! Ken, (just another old buzzard)


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## deerhide

Xandrew245x said:


> Hello, I'm looking for recommendations for implementing for my hobby farm. I currently have two 100'x50' plots.
> 
> From researching I seem to be getting a lot of mixed answers. What are the advantages/disadvantages to a bottom plow/disk harrow combination vs the advantages/disadvantages of a 3 point roto tiller.
> 
> From what I've read, roto tillers destroy the soil structure, but are much quicker and easier at getting the job done. Plow/harrow is best for soil structure but is a much longer process.
> 
> Looking for advice from someone who has experience using them.
> 
> Thanks.


Tiller, but till shallow....the plow upsets the soil profile too.


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## Mulcherguys

I have a lot of experience in the produce industry selling farm equipment all over the west coast, but generally in the salad bowl of the world Salinas Ca. The big boys mainly do both discing and tilling, tilling won't damage your soil as bad as you would think mainly since garden variety tillers spin at 230 RPM at the tooth. The large growers tillers spin on average at 500 RPM and as high as 720 by changing the gearing. Bottom line is you want to make big clods into little ones and create a uniform seed bed so you get ample germination. Your idea of a cover crop and then discing it up is the correct process since the cover crops bring back the nutrients you need but taking it out is best done by a disc with a pass or two. Bottom plows can bring up unwanted stuff that is deeper than you want to go. Bottom plowing on a big farm is done when you need whats under where you have been planting and you can contend with whatever else you bring up with chemicals. Most organic growers do not bottom plow. I hope this helps, I am not a farmer I just play one on TV but I have been to produce farms in 15 U.S. states and 3 different countries.


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## aschwerin

I started my non-hobby farm with about four 100' x 100' plots in raw pasture. First I brush-hogged. I was, and still am, quite fond of the chisel plow. It'll loosen your soil without inverting the profiles or tearing up the structure. So I chisel plowed the whole area. Then I put down about 6 tons rabbit manure and 2 tons chicken litter, and chisel plowed crosswise direction. It was fall, so then I planted a cover crop of wheat or rye or something. In mid-winter I did a single pass with a tiller. This was because we were forming raised beds (4' x 100') with hoe and shovel, and the work was impossible by hand without tilling first. Also the tiller integrated the young cover crop.

Tilling is one of the most widespread abuses present today, so I use it minimally.

If you want to till without breaking up your soil structure, a "spader" is the implement you are looking for. The good ones are imported from Italy, and any of them are gonna cost a pretty penny (a few grand).


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## Mulcherguys

Chisel plowing and bottom plowing are 2 different things completely. Chiseling is a much better application. I don't understand the comments made about tilling abusing the soil it never leaves and goes anywhere it just breaks up the clods. I have more than one organic growers that farm over 10,000 acres and till every time before planting. Sometimes more than once. I don't know where you got your info from but I can't see how it would damage anything but uneven ground.


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## aschwerin

I only bring it up because the OP mentioned it...
Erosion of topsoil in Iowa averaged 5.2 tons per acre per year (this was last decade, as use of conservation tillage was increasing). In one area of Iowa, in 2013, that amount was lost in a 5-day flood! Your soil erosion is going to depend on climate and topography. In general, topsoil is lost by surface runoff, rivers and stream erosion, floods, and wind (e.g., the Dust Bowl). Tillage is the primary factor of erosion in agricultural lands (otherwise deforestation). For more info, look up "Soil Erosion" in Wikipedia, or read the book "dirt" by Montgomery. Conservation tillage has been increasing rapidly in Canada and also in the U.S. - not just for the environmental benefits, but also for the economic benefits of the individual farmer.


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## Mulcherguys

Tillage like you are talking about and using a rototiller or a like machine are to entirely different applications. Tillage goes deep i.e. chisel plow roll over plow deep tillage stubble discing. Rototilling goes max 4-5" just to the seed depth. I could see where soil erosion could be a problem in Iowa but it's not here in CA. That's why it's not practiced here. Any time u use conservation tillage programs u scarfice something like yields which equal $. I couldn't a financial benefits. Also I don't need to read a book about Dirt I live in it every day, and speak to farmers everyday. So I'm not really interested in some authors interaction of what I can see by looking out my window..


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## Granpa49

I once borrowed a Kuhn PTO tiller and loved it. It tilled 5-6 inches deep or more and left the soil like face power. Roots are history. Another year I used a Bush hog brand tiller and it only tilled a couple of inches deep. Then my neighbor bought a King Kutter unit. It tills 3-4 inches deep. The Kuhn units are pricey. I then bought a used three point 14" bottom plow. My Ford 3930 has the umph to pull it. I wish it had 4 points so My tires wouldn't mess up the furrows on the next pass. I was plowing, then tilling with the King Kutter. Then my Father-in-law gave me a beat up old 14" six foot gang disc. I rebuilt it and now I plow, then disc. I don't have any need for a tiller. The next move is to find a hilling plow because whether you disc or till you will have a flat seed bed. Wet springs like the one we're having in Alabama this year wreck havoc on a flat garden. As far as the plow turning up clay and messing up the profile is concerned - just because the plow is 14" doesn't mean you have to run it that deep. Set your lift arms to only plow about 6-8" deep. We mulch with last years leaves and turn it all under in the fall. My garden was 50' x 150' when the kids were at home. Now it's just the wife and I and the garden is about 40'x60'. Wouldn't hurt my feelings if it were smaller than that.


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