# About to buy my first tractor



## Battalion Chief (Jun 2, 2006)

New to the forum.. 

I am looking at tractors (new and used) and have a few in mind.. 

I would like to ask about one of them: A 1984 IH 584.

This tractor is in decent condition with a loader, (a loader is a must for me)... I don't necessarily need that much HP (54) on a consistent basis but it would come in handy at times. 

1) This tractor is not 4WD. But I have heard that since it weighs so much (8000 lbs), that the 2WD will do pretty well.. I will be moving dirt/materials on terrain with elevation changes.. caring for 25 acres.. with a creek bed, fields, etc.. With the diff lock and such HP and weight, will the 2WD get traction enough? 

2) The parking brake does not function (I heard about the problems with this model and the brake). The current owner has used it four years this way just dropping the bucket for a brake. Using the bucket as a brake sounds reasonable to me.. is it?

Other than the brake this tractor only needs a few minor repairs to be in pretty good shape (fuel line leak, actuator seal, small weld repair needed on loader frame).

I should be able to pick this tractor up for just under $8000 and he'll throw in a 6 ft brush hog.. . 

How would you answer my questions .. What do you all think? 

thanks so much, and I am looking forward to my first tractor!!!

I forgot to mention: I really like the rough and tough look of this old red tractor... should that play a part in my purchase?


----------



## Fordfarm (Dec 27, 2005)

Them old IH's are good machines! That model is a great al-around machine. I have a 454 with a loader on it and it's not 4x4. No problems! I use the bucket as a brake all the time, even if I set the parking brake. You could handle a bigger hog, but a 6' will work just fine. Good luck!


----------



## Battalion Chief (Jun 2, 2006)

Thanks! This IH 584 sure does look and act like a "good ol' solid work horse type" tractor.. and I think I would rather get something just a little more powerful then to be left wanting more "umphf" if I bought a smaller compact.. and it's in my price range! 

I won't 'pull the trigger' on the purchase just yet.. I will try to learn a little more by researching and talking to locals, etc.. 

Maybe late next week, that will be as long as I can stand it.. 

Guy with Tractor Fever.


----------



## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

From one Chief to another, Welcome to Tractor Forum!  Glad you found us. The IH 584 would make a fine choice for your applications. Below is a little spec. info. on this machine. 

Tractor Details for INTERNATIONAL 584 . 

Tractor Details On File

Years Made: 1978-1984 
Horsepower - PTO: 52.54 
Horsepower - Engine: 
Horsepower - Drawbar: 47.4 
Horsepower - Range: 53 
Engine - Make: IHC 
Engine - Fuel: DIESEL 
Engine - Cyl(s) - CID: 4/206 
Transmission - Standard: SM 
Optional: 8/4 
Forward / Reverse Standard: 
Forward / Reverse Optional: OPT 
MFWD - Standard / Optional: 7.50-16 
Tires Standard - Front: 16.9-30 
Tires Standard - Rear: 84.5 
Wheelbase - Inches: 
PTO Type: IND 
3pt Hitch Cat I: False 
3pt Hitch Cat II: True 
3pt Hitch Cat III: False 
Hitch Lift: 3600 
Hydraulics - Type: OPEN 
Hydraulics - Cap: 9 
Hydraulics - Flow: 12.5 
Hydraulics - Standard Outlets: 
Cooling Capacity: 13.7 
Fuel Tank Capacity: 20 
Cab Standard: OPT 
Weight: 6685 
New Price: $18,845.00 

Serial Numbers On File

Serial: 9215 | Year: 1984 | Plate Location: RIGHT REAR CORNER OF FRONT BOLSTER 
Serial: 8348 | Year: 1983 | Plate Location: RIGHT REAR CORNER OF FRONT BOLSTER 
Serial: 8416 | Year: 1983 | Plate Location: RIGHT SIDE OF FRONT AXLE SUPPORT; INTERNATIONAL 
Serial: 7033 | Year: 1982 | Plate Location: RIGHT REAR CORNER OF FRONT BOLSTER 
Serial: 8001 | Year: 1982 | Plate Location: RIGHT SIDE OF FRONT AXLE SUPPORT; INTERNATIONAL 
Serial: 5766 | Year: 1981 | Plate Location: RIGHT SIDE OF FRONT AXLE SUPPORT; INTERNATIONAL 
Serial: 5766 | Year: 1981 | Plate Location: RIGHT REAR CORNER OF FRONT BOLSTER 
Serial: 3871 | Year: 1980 | Plate Location: RIGHT SIDE OF FRONT AXLE SUPPORT; INTERNATIONAL 
Serial: 3944 | Year: 1980 | Plate Location: RIGHT REAR CORNER OF FRONT BOLSTER 
Serial: 2120 | Year: 1979 | Plate Location: RIGHT REAR CORNER OF FRONT BOLSTER 
Serial: 2130 | Year: 1979 | Plate Location: RIGHT SIDE OF FRONT AXLE SUPPORT; INTERNATIONAL 
Serial: 501 | Year: 1978 | Plate Location: RIGHT SIDE OF FRONT AXLE SUPPORT; INTERNATIONAL 
Serial: 501 | Year: 1978 | Plate Location: RIGHT REAR CORNER OF FRONT BOLSTER 

I am a bit unclear on the brakes. Is just the parking brake which locks the service brakes that does not work or do none of the brakes work at all? If the service brakes work the park brake should be not much trouble to fix. If the service brakes don't work; this could be a big problem safety wise and in the event of needing the brakes to help turn the tractor or help get you out from being stuck in the mud. I would not want to operate a tractor without any brakes as this would be a safety issue waiting to happen. You could get by with dropping the bucket but suppose you wanted to use the machine to load dirt fill onto a truck or in your barn? Safety aside, this could be an expensive problem to repair depending upon what is the problen in the brake system. 

How does the tractor start cold? If the current owner is using ether to start it; I would be very concerned. How many hours are on the machine? What condition are the tires in? Any oil leaks on the engine or hydraulics? There are going to be some leaks on a tractor this age and some small leaks are to be expected but big leaks can be a red flag depending upon what and where they are. Not trying to be a stick in the mud; just wanted to suggest a few areas to consider before buying. For the most part these are real fine tractors that have earned their stripes over the years. 

Is the front end loader an IH or aftermarket add on? 

Another item you may want to carefully consider, especially with the front end loader installed is a ROPS (roll over protection system) which is a fancy acronym for a roll bar. Most tractors that age did not come with one unless it had a canopy installed. You can get aftermarket retro-fit kits but they can cost a few bucks and ARE worth every penny in my opinion, especially in the event of a roll over. 

Here is a link to some IH 584's currently on the market for sale to give you an idea as to what they are selling for. Bare in mind that most of these are tractor dealer prices which are between approx. $1500 to $2500 more than you would expect to pay for the same machine from a private seller. 


IH 584's for sale 


Anyhow, good luck on your tractor purchase and be sure to post some pictures for us when you get her home! Hope to hear back from you soon!


----------



## Battalion Chief (Jun 2, 2006)

*Good info!*

Thanks for the insight.. 

The brake problem is only related to the parking brake. 

You bring up a lot of issues for me to consider. (roll bar, cold starting?, Rear tires are OLD, there are several fluid leaks)..

I said I was looking at new and used tractors: Well, I checked out a new John Deere 5103 on Saturday.. What a nice machine! 

Although it will cost twice as much it does provide a whole lot more convenience and safety.. (I will be teaching my teenage son how to drive this tractor and safety is important).

The 5103 weighs about 2000 lbs. less than the IH 584. Do you think that will still be heavy enough to maintain traction while working with a loader? The 5103 has a 50 HP motor with 42 at the PTO... still pretty strong.. 

new tires, roll bar, new everything, no leaks, etc.. etc.. SWEET.. very hard to resist... 

How does $16,500 sound for this JD 5103 w/512 loader?


----------



## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

If you are going to have a FEL. I would strongly recommend taking a look at the Deere 5105. It can be equipped with 4WD. Below is some info. on pricing. A neighbor of mine just recently bought one and LOVES his. Plenty of power, good traction and a basic, simple, and reliable tractor.



John Deere 5105 Tractor


----------



## Battalion Chief (Jun 2, 2006)

*$$$$*

Boy,.. actually the 5103 was already "pushing it" as far as how much I had to spend... The 5105 is substantially more, especaily with 4WD... 

Should I consider a smaller tractor but with 4WD? I was hoping to have a STRONG FEL (one that could carry well over 1000 lbs.)


----------



## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

The 5103 will work OK with the FEL. There are some instances where 4WD is a must like backing up an incline or in muddy conditions. 4WD is not an absolute requirement but it can sure make working with a FEL much more user friendly. Another option you might want to consider is looking a Kioti DK45 or one of the next down. They are priced a good bit less than the Deere tractors. Also take a look at the John Deere 990. If you are not pressed to get a tractor right away; you might do well to keep an eye on the local auctions.


----------



## Battalion Chief (Jun 2, 2006)

*5105*

Well, as I learn more my thoughts change a little.. I guess that is to be expected. I had almost pulled the trigger on the 5103, when I took a closer look at the 5105 as you recommended.. phew.. what a nice tractor.. Kind of a crazy story how I "came across" the 5105. I went to the dealer to test drive the 5103 again. Well, a 4WD 5105 with a 522 loader was in the way of the 5103. So the 5105 had to be moved so I could get to the 5103.. I couldn' t take my eyes of the 5105... Man, that thing has it ALL... STRONG, 4WD, SIMPLE.. This is the tractor that fits my needs... it is hard to settle for the 5103 with such a big purchase... I am leaning toward just "going for it!" Man, this is a tough decision (for me).. 

thanks for the help.. 

PS The dealer did not know I was coming by to drive the 5103, so, no, he didn't place it in the way to "distract me."


----------



## jaso22 (Mar 23, 2006)

*more weight?*

You can always put calcium/water solution in the rear tires.


----------



## Battalion Chief (Jun 2, 2006)

*5105 is it!*

Well, after what seemed like much research and much thought, I have decided to go with the JD 5105 w/4WD and 522 loader! I am spending WAY MORE than I originally thought I was going to spend but this tractor is awesome! And it has so many features that I know I will be glad I chose this one.. the 4WD, the SyncReverser, the 2500 lb capacity loader and more.. This tractor is just awesome.. my name was written all over it  Once I got on it and took a close look it was hard to get back to the 5103, though the 5103 is still the "best bang for the buck" I feel.

I will accept delivery today!! 

Thanks to all for the information! 

Time to "work"


----------



## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

BC,

I can sure appreciate the requirement to stay within budget. Not sure how much more the 5105 is going to cost over the 5103. You will have to bargain with the dealer. In the end, you will need to consider how much you need the 4WD and how the added cost will be justified over the time of ownership. Most folks buy and own a tractor like that for their lifetime or a good part of it. In my opinion, you should get what fits your needs as you will have to live with it for a long time. I had a Kubota L245 with a FEL prior to my 4410. The L245 did not have 4WD; the 4410 does. Worlds of difference in how the tractor performs. I don't use 4WD often; just when I need it. On steep terrain, backing up inclines, and muddy conditions, I have found it is essential. 4WD also comes in real handy when pulling out trees as well.


----------



## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Looks like you posted while I was replying!  I think you will be very satisfied with the 5105. My neighbor loves his. Congratulations!:tractorsm


----------



## Battalion Chief (Jun 2, 2006)

*It IS nice!*

I just got off of an hour ride on the JD5105.. . Wow.. this is one nice tractor.. very strong... the SyncReverser is worth it's weight in gold! This is going to be GREAT! 

Happy new owner of a: 
2006 John Deere 5105
522 FEL
6ft box blade
6ft shredder

See the tractor here: 
Me and the 5105 

Wesley


----------



## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Wesley, 

Again congratulations! I know this machine is a bit more than you planned on spending but I think you got a real SWEET machine that will provide you with YEARS of very reliable service and satisfaction. 

I am jealous!  I have been looking at this very model tractor for myself and debating selling my 4410 and moving up to a larger tractor but so far my 4410 is great for what I am doing which is a lot of trimming up bushhogging. I am hoping that perhaps Deere will up the hp on this tractor to around 60 or 70 hp so I can run a hay baler in the future. 

I am very glad that we were able to offer you some ideas and help on your tractor purchase and sure hope you will not be a stranger as well as a regular poster. Be sure to post some follow ups on your likes and dislikes about your 5105 as you put some hours on it. I am sure we are all very interested in reading your feedback. 

Have fun and enjoy the seat time! :thumbsup:  

By the way, which rotary cutter did you buy?


----------



## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

way to go Wesley!!

That is one fine lookin tractor. it will last you a lifetime and everytime you use it you will be glad you got what you needed not just what was "on sale"

Keep us updated (with more pictures of course) as you use your new ride.:tractorsm


----------



## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: It IS nice!*



> _Originally posted by Battalion Chief _
> *I just got off of an hour ride on the JD5105.. . Wow.. this is one nice tractor.. very strong... the SyncReverser is worth it's weight in gold! This is going to be GREAT!
> 
> Happy new owner of a:
> ...


As the Orange guy here (luckily I had installed a program that colors every picture I view ORANGE) That is one good looking "Orange"  tractor, Congratulations!!


----------



## Battalion Chief (Jun 2, 2006)

*More time on the beast*

Before the day was out I spent another couple of hours grooming the driveway, moving some dirt that needed moving, shaping the ground in some areas, etc.. 

The tractor is so easy to use... The power is thrilling; at one point I was using the loader and had a full load with the bucket still 'in the ground' and all 4 wheels were spinning as the tractor stopped.. all wheels just kept spinning, digging holes.. Man, as someone told me (and they were right), I ran out of traction before running out of power... 

As I get more time on the tractor I will share more likes and dislikes, etc... Right now I hope y'all can excuse my drunken "newbie-ness." 

I am on vacation now, and won't get back to my tractor till Tuesday... never wanted to finish a vacation so fast before.. 

Waited too long in life to get a nice tractor, 
Wesley


----------



## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

I too exhalt in your happiness!!


----------



## Battalion Chief (Jun 2, 2006)

*past 10 hours*

Well, I have spent 10 hours on the new tractor, and it is performing very well .. I used the box blade with the tines down and moved/groomed some ground in an area not too far from the house.. What a great tool the tractor w/implements is! (preaching to the choir there). ... 

I also later hooked up my Howse 5 ft shredder.. This shredder I already had in my possession.. It was used by someone else years ago.. It hadn't been used in about 6 years so it took some lubrication and hammering to get it functioning again. (The swiveling blades were stuck). I would like to sell this shredder and use the money toward the purchase for a larger one.. The 5103 of course had no trouble pulling and running this shredder.. 

I will HAVE to get better at hooking up implements on the 3 point hitch.. That was a pain and took too much time.. Assuming I will get better at that.. Certainly the "quick hitch" system looks pretty attractive right now.. How much does that system set back a pocket book?

One other thing I noticed: The clutch operation while doing a lot of loader work, back and forth, will give your leg a workout.. I am a big guy, I workout and stay strong, and my leg got a good workout.. A weak person may not be comfortable day in, day out.. I guess the e-Hydro could solve that.. $$$ Man, we get spoiled don't we?

So glad I got the 4 wheel drive.. I have needed it several times already... 

Anyway, just wanted to give a quick update on the enjoyment of my new tractor.. Still loving every minute.. will be on it tomorrow finishing the field mowing and moving some good dirt from the creek bed up to the house area.. Can't wait.. This IS work, right?

WB


----------



## stranger (Jul 14, 2006)

*convert to the creed*

Friends,

Back about a week back, a tractor was a big noisy piece of machinery belching ugly black smoke and sounding like a generator (fun to drive though). But today you see a convert. I love tractors and want to know all about them. And I'm going to own my own very soon. But first my story!!

I work with a non profit organization that works with low income (poor) blokes whose traditional profession is using captured wild animals as performers. Dancing, or mock fighting etc. The deal with the job is he gives me his bison/ hippo/ rhino/ leopard whatever his animal is and we help him start up in a Greenfield business venture of his choice. We provide the startup funds and training, initial marketing to land em a few initial contracts and then they’re on their own. Long and short of it is that one of these blokes wanted a tractor in exchange for his three wild animals and we found that it could be worked out. Now where we come from, land holdings are usually small avg 3-4 acres and anyone with 10+ to his name could strut around pretty proud. So these geezers pick up a second hand tractor cheap and till their own soil as well as that of others for a price. It pays pretty well, about USD 8 per hour. Now what the guy and I knew about tractors could fit easily into a pack of 555s so its back to the ol internet for me. I spoke to a few people, met manufacturers, dealers, mechanics, farmers etc and started getting a hang of the basics. 
Now ten days down the line, we’re about to pick up a 1998 Mahindra 275DI for approx USD 3880. This for a 3 cylinder 35 hp red beast with a two wheel trailer, 9 tine cultivator, cowper, harrow and cage wheel set. It’s a decent deal or so the folks tell us. But now I’m hooked. I’m going into some genteel farming pretty soon and the second thing I’m plonking my money down for is….. well, no prizes for guessing. But Im going in for a used one. Some how just don’t care much for the looks of the spanking new ones that come out these days. Just too plasticky for my taste. 
Now my confusion is the sheer bewildering variety of choice one has if one goes out looking for tractors. There are single cylinders right up to 4 cylinders and 25 hps right upto 75 hps with many combinations of the two. Now I just need to farm my 4-5 acres and lend a hand at the neighbours on and off. 
Would a similar outfit like my friend’s above do? Any further information while looking at used tractors would be much appreciated.

Delighted to be here.

Stranger


----------



## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Sounds like a nice setup to get started with, Stranger! I see you hail from India, how are the Inet connections out there? I admire your concern and dedication for the people out there. That tractor looks like a great deal for you.......they should hold up pretty well and hopefully u can get low hours on your used one....

best of luck...and "dont be a stranger" hahah


----------



## Fordfarm (Dec 27, 2005)

Welcome aboard, Stranger!


----------



## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Welcome to Tractor Forum Stranger! 

As far as looking at a used tractor. I try to arrange to meet with the owner and ensure the tractor is cold and has NOT been started for 24 hours if possible. When I meet them, I observe how easy the tractor starts (if ether is required to start the engine; this is a VERY bad sign), how is runs when cold started (any undue smoke or noises?) Once I have warmed the tractor up, if possible I have it hooked up to a mower or other implement to put a load on it and run it for about a half hour more or less and look for leaks, observe the temp. gauge for unusual signs, how the pto and clutch performs. Check the brakes and steering for proper operation. 

You should pull the engine oil dipstick and check for reasonably clean oil and no signs of water or anti-freeze. Check the transmisson oil for water contamination as well. 

I am sure there are many other things to look at that some of our members will add but you basically want to give the machine a thorough going over while it is at operation temperature and under a good load. 

The owner should have some record of the maintenance and upkeep that has been done to show you. 

Again welcome and hope I was able to at least give you a few ideas to consider. 

Let us know what you get and we LOVE pictures!   So be sure to post some pictures of your tractor purchase.


----------



## stranger (Jul 14, 2006)

*convert to the creed*

Hello,

Thank you all for the kind words of welcome and encouragement. 
In answer to specific questions, i-net connections in India are as good as anywhere else. And yes, it is a good thing we're doing and I am happy to be a part of it.

And now for the big news, we picked up a '98 model Mahindra 365DI three cylinders 35 Horses, four wheel trailer, 9 tine cultivator and cage wheels for this family. 

This after an awesome tour of the countryside looking for good deals. Everywhere we came across amazinly maintained machines, which noone was willing to part with. John Deeres, Escorts, New Hollands, Eichers you name it, they were there.

Ill send a pic across once the roll is developed. (I havent graduated to digi cams yet).

Thank you all for the specific tips like checking engine oil, (I always do that), cold starts, handling of loads etc. The mechanic I took along with me also pointed out some other tips like checking for play/ wobbling in the transmission and throttle rods.

regds all

Stranger [PS: thats my handle:]


----------



## stranger (Jul 14, 2006)

*Tractor farm*

Well, we picked up the machine a while back and the dealer is getting 'im done up. There a some pics I took 'before'. Also took a few interesting ones in the dealers workshop and garage.
Would somebody please tell me how to post the photographs?

thanks

Stranger


----------



## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Stranger,

here is a thread that covers the how to of posting pictures. 

How to post a picture and link it so it shows on your thread 

Are you wanting to link to pictures saved on another website? If so, the above link covers that. Otherwise you can use the attach file feature and upload the picture to our website. Depending upon the definition of the picture you want to upload, you may need to resize it down so it will appear at a reasonable size.


----------



## Fordfarm (Dec 27, 2005)

*Re: past 10 hours*



> _Originally posted by Battalion Chief _
> *Well, I have spent 10 hours on the new tractor, and it is performing very well .. I used the box blade with the tines down and moved/groomed some ground in an area not too far from the house.. What a great tool the tractor w/implements is! (preaching to the choir there). ... *


Glad you like your machine! Looks nice (even if it IS green!)! Judging by the other photos in your album - you NEED a ROPS! Just don't forget that you are on your tractor - not the bike! 

Congrats!


__________________


----------



## stranger (Jul 14, 2006)

Pic1 is of the machine as it was and just after it had been transferred to the workyard for work.

stranger


----------



## stranger (Jul 14, 2006)

Pic3 with hood open. As you can see, it swings open rear to front.


----------

