# LED Shop Lights



## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

I used to smile when one of the old guys on the shop floor would say "Come over here rookie, I need to borrow those young eyes of yours". Now that I'm "seasoned", I understand what they were dealing with on a daily basis. I could not seem to get enough light in the shop anymore and of course I blamed it on the 16' ceiling. I decided to convert all 12 of the fluorescent overhead lights in the shop to LEDs. I figured the ROI in lights would come back in a lower electric bill eventually. Boy was I right.... Shop ran about $60 per month for electricity and the last two months since I put them in it's been around $40. Spent about $220 for the 4' led bulbs and non-shunted "tombstones" to make the conversion and didn't have to buy any fixtures. At that rate ($20 per month saved), those LEDs will pay for themselves in about 11 months. At the same time, I lowered the lights to 12'.

I shopped around quite a bit for bulbs and I came up with the ones in the link below from Amazon. These are 60W, triple-rows, and man do they make a difference, the shop is now like being in Yankee Stadium for a night game. I also bought a 50-pack of non-shunted tombstones and "pre-fabricated" all 12 wiring harnesses. The fixtures were a mix of both T8 and T12. You can tell by the diameter of the bulb -- T8 = 1", T12 = 1 1/2". I found that most of the T8 fixtures already had non-shunted tombstones, this is probably because a T12 runs on a magnetic ballast and a T8 operates on an electronic ballast. Once I got the fixtures on the bench, it was just a matter of removing the old ballast/wiring and installing the pre-fab harness and wire nutting the leads to the existing power cord. Switched all 12 lights over in one day, which I thought was pretty good since I'm not really fond of working off a 14' step ladder anymore

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q98TVLT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S638E6A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I thought $8 a tube for 60w triple-rows was a deal... I need to do more "Bench lights", but can't find those triple-rows in anything less than that 25-pack, for less than $16 each. Does anybody know of another source??


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

I just put up some led 4 ft lights to they are 5200 lumens. It really made a huge difference, and as you mentioned they are alot cheaper to operate. I got to put the last one up tomorrow.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

I put up or I should say, I had them put up, 8-- 4ft'rs in my shop 5000 lum.
& I ended up buying 1 at HFreight to put over my work bench..
The stupid HF lite is briter than the 8..
The 8's are double "bulbs" while the HF is a single.. I "think" that makes all the diff. in the world.?? 
I can stare at the ones on the ceiling.. but if I look at the HF lite, I'm blind for a couple of minutes..


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm in the process of changing over to LED's. I picked up 7 LED's for the barn that come with a Shade / reflector. They worked great, and are apparently good for 50,000 hours. I have about 1,000 hours on them, and three have burnt out already! I bought them on sale, but they still cost me over $250.00 for the lot!
I may have to go back to incandescent until they figure out an LED for a cold northern barn!


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

I'm sure hoping the ones I installed last that 50,000 hours. I convinced myself that these would outlast me in the shop. I don't know what happened to me... When I was in my 20's, living in Colorado, I used to change sheaves on 70' ski lift towers and it never bothered me. Now.... Working off a 14' step ladder freaks me out???


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

I think the difference is, that if we fall, something will break, where when we were 20, you could walk it off if you fell.

In our heads anyways.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

thepumpguysc said:


> I put up or I should say, I had them put up, 8-- 4ft'rs in my shop 5000 lum.
> & I ended up buying 1 at HFreight to put over my work bench..
> The stupid HF lite is briter than the 8..
> The 8's are double "bulbs" while the HF is a single.. I "think" that makes all the diff. in the world.??
> I can stare at the ones on the ceiling.. but if I look at the HF lite, I'm blind for a couple of minutes..


I use to have a Norton 850 Commando I terrorized the highways with at one time. I'd be riding along at night, doing the usual 85-90 mph and all of a sudden the headlight would get brighter than the search light on a Po Po helicopter. That meant I had about 30 seconds before that POS Lucas Zenner diode they ran blew and I was gonna lose all electrical. Don't know what's up with the HF light, but if it's their usual quality, maybe you shouldn't stand under it very often, or at least be wearing a hat when you do. I don't have enough hair left to risk any going up in flames.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

Be ever careful with LED lighting. It's not the lumens that are the problem, it's the Kelvin thermal color being projected. The cool & bright white operate above the safety of 3500K. Thus the longer you are bathed in this K-color, the worse your eyes will become. Not if, ... will become. 

*LEDs are in the near-infrared frequency zone. *
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/10/23/near-infrared-led-lighting.aspx

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2019/05/30/led-light-health-risks.aspx 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/led-lightbulb-concerns 

https://www.ledwaves.com/pages/about-color-temperature 

https://gunnar.com/do-environmentally-friendly-led-lights-cause-blindness 

*Blue Light and Your Eyes | Prevent Blindness*
https://www.preventblindness.org/blue-light-and-your-eyes 

*LED Lights In Your House Can Blind Your Eyes Permanently – BBC*
By Digital Phablet StaffPosted onMay 16, 2019
https://www.digitalphablet.com/led-lights-blind

*Even Dell computer is making a 180 turn from how they use LEDs *
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brooke...about-led-oled-blue-light-eye-damage-dell-is/


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

And this one just showed up today ...

https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-11-26-5g-devices-beam-weapons-with-weaponized-electronics.html 

In a recent video update he published on November 21st, Steele looked at the 450-volt capacitor and computer board of a standard LED light, revealing that the blue light wavelengths blasted out from it are a type of phototoxic radiation that destroys the retina of the eye.

Citing a study published by French researchers about blue light exposure, Steele explains how the blue light from standard LEDs is extremely _phototoxic_, and is in no way safe for human health.

“Blue, phosphor-coated 450 nanometer (nm) frequency” is retinal cell toxic, Steele explains about how LED lights damage the human eye.

“This inhibits the production of chemicals in the body to protect you from cancer and deleterious effects, melatonin, the main one. These actually kill the retina cells … that’s why they’re dangerous, and that’s why the whole thing was developed as a weapons system,” he adds.

Steele’s cited study reveals how LED blue light not only damages the retina of the eye with its phototoxicity, but also decreases photoreceptor responses to light.

“The most harmful component of visible light is the blue wavelength (400-500 nm),” the study explains. “Different filters have been tested, but so far all of them allow passing a lot of this wavelength (70%).”


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

So, what does a person do then for massive amounts of healthy light without breaking the bank?

When Harbor Freight has these on sale, I get a few boxes. Then use 40W or 60W halogen bulbs that look like regular incandescent bulbs. That's how. 

With 20% off coupon. I got mine for a mere $14.99 during a sale. 2 strings light up the entire garage/shop with brilliance using the 40W halogens. These kits come with 11W bulbs, but they can handle up to 60W per socket. A halogen will only use 43W to make 60W amount of light.


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

Anybody seen the newer v shaped 4ft led shop lights? They say the v shape throws the light wider. Which makes sense instead of shining straight downwards.


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

https://www.ledmyplace.com/products...MIzMy99JCN5gIVApSzCh0ncAVTEAQYCSABEgIgjPD_BwE


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

Lumens are about half but I bet it makes up for it shining at the angles like that.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

As I stated earlier, I'm hoping those LEDs do actually last the 50,000 hours so I don't have get on a 14' step ladder at my age to change bulbs... Wouldn't hanging four (40x60 shop) 12-bulb each (48 bulbs), Harbor Freight, light strands be counter productive to that strategy?

A standard 60w bulb draws about .5A @110V. 48 bulbs x .5A each = 24A. 43W bulb draws .4A 48 x .4A each = 19.2A

I checked the Amp draw at the 20A circuit breaker with all 12, 48" LED Double-bulb fixtures on, it was just slightly under 2A. That compares to 11A draw before the LED conversion. Wouldn't installing those Harbor Freight lights also make my lighting cost go up, as well as pose a fire hazard on that 20A circuit?

I appreciate learning the concerns about possible eye damage from LEDs, I never heard that one before. It made me wonder if I did the right thing, but then I carefully weighed in the risk of going up/down that 14' step ladder at least 50 times to change anything, much less maintain 48 light bulbs in a Chinese wiring circuit, and decided *"TO HELL WITH THAT"*.....


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

Bob Driver said:


> I appreciate learning the concerns about possible eye damage from LEDs, I never heard that one before. It made me wonder if I did the right thing, but then I carefully weighed in the risk of going up/down that 14' step ladder at least 50 times to change anything, much less maintain 48 light bulbs in a Chinese wiring circuit, and decided *"TO HELL WITH THAT"*.....


Well, you could change out the COOL WHITE LEDs with WARM WHITE LEDs and keep within a SAFER limits for your eyes (3000K (Kelvin)). This would also keep the same LED draw you had monitored. 

Chinese wiring or Vietnam made LED bulbs, you pick.  

Rather than a ladder, I opted for a boom-rod. This way, should any go out, I just lower the boom to standing level, swap a bulb and raise the boom.  

At my work place, they've changed a few of the long tube LED bulb in the fixtures in the 3 years. So much for the 50,000hr life eh? That's 26,280 of continuous hour run life. Depending on the maker, your mileage will vary. Those upper LED limits are good for continuous run times. The in/out of the shop with lights on/off will degrade other components in the LED bulbs.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

I just got back from HF on the annual Christmas shop supplies run(for myself)… I had to smile when I walked in and the 1st thing I saw was those same light strands in the "Please buy me Pile" they always have at the front door.... Makes you wonder what earns an item a place in "The Pile"??


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

Bob Driver said:


> I just got back from HF on the annual Christmas shop supplies run(for myself)… I had to smile when I walked in and the 1st thing I saw was those same light strands in the "Please buy me Pile" they always have at the front door.... Makes you wonder what earns an item a place in "The Pile"??


So cool.  

Were these just the white cord runner by chance? 

So, if you ran just 1 24-ft string with 100W output LED bulbs that are warm light, a shop floor would be great.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Can't do it... I just put up a big sign at the door with a very stern warning for people not to open their eyes in the shop under any circumstance, even if they think they feel a hand on their wallet...


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

Bob Driver said:


> Can't do it... I just put up a big sign at the door with a very stern warning for people not to open their eyes in the shop under any circumstance, even if they think they feel a hand on their wallet...


What else did you get since you went there for yourself.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Assortment of hairpin clips (like those way better than cotter keys), assortment of woodruff keys, lots of heat shrink, buffing wheels, grease zerks, copious amount of zip-ties, and a couple of giant rolls of duct tape in honor of Red Green....


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

Bob Driver said:


> Assortment of hairpin clips (like those way better than cotter keys), assortment of woodruff keys, lots of heat shrink, buffing wheels, grease zerks, copious amount of zip-ties, and a couple of giant rolls of duct tape in honor of Red Green....


The zip ties are the same ones at Menards, but at a better price. Same Dupont plastic and UV rating too. 

I loved the episode of RED GREEN doing the mini van limo! That was a riot. 

For folks who have missed out on this great Canadian comedy show of DIY wits and remarkable feats with duct tape and even empty t-paper rolls, you got to check this out. 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsfIjK5sy9Upzcf316Xpytw


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

bmaverick said:


> The zip ties are the same ones at Menards, but at a better price. Same Dupont plastic and UV rating too.
> 
> I loved the episode of RED GREEN doing the mini van limo! That was a riot.
> 
> ...


I quote Red a lot to the chagrin of my wife…. 

*The Man Pray*
"I'm a man, but I can do better, if I have to, I guess"....


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

Bob Driver said:


> I quote Red a lot to the chagrin of my wife….
> 
> *The Man Pray*
> "I'm a man, but I can do better, if I have to, I guess"....


So, there isn't a Canadian TV signal for several states away, how did you pick up on the RED GREEN Show anyways???

MS is a looong ways away. But you are close to Fredricks in Decatur, now I must envy you.

BTW, I once lived on the country border and watch RED GREEN directly when it aired on the CBC in the day.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

We used to watch it here in Northern Idaho all the time. The older, original shows were great, then they revamped things and kind of got stupid in my opinion. Shortly after the new show started, they vanished off the air here.


bmaverick said:


> So, there isn't a Canadian TV signal for several states away, how did you pick up on the RED GREEN Show anyways???
> 
> MS is a looong ways away. But you are close to Fredricks in Decatur, now I must envy you.
> 
> BTW, I once lived on the country border and watch RED GREEN directly when it aired on the CBC in the day.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Hoodoo Valley said:


> We used to watch it here in Northern Idaho all the time. The older, original shows were great, then they revamped things and kind of got stupid in my opinion. Shortly after the new show started, they vanished off the air here.


Huh??.... You may be right, I waivered between stupid and cheap as the driving force behind all of Red's adventures. Then I realized they were demonstrating the complexity of man and it was a combination of both....

bmaverick - He still tours, but he doesn't come down " this aways". Probably because he wouldn't be all that funny. Everybody around here knows at least a 1/2 dozen guys just like him in real life, but they use words like Y'all and not "Aboot", and no suspenders and fishing hat... they wear bib overalls and a Mail Pouch baseball cap. I swear I saw Jed Clampett in line at the Walmart the other day. He was buying 6 cans of Great Value Chili and a bottle of Kaopectate

https://www.concertboom.com/red-green/tour-dates/


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

Just my opinion. When Harold started sporting that silly guitar,







is about the time me and my wife started losing interest. Before that though... GREAT!


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## sannders77 (Dec 23, 2019)

> I loved the episode of RED GREEN doing the mini van limo! That was a riot.


Yeah, it was terrific...


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## Castleford (Oct 21, 2018)

I got a pair of original Red Green suspenders for Christmas one year!
But on topic, I bought my retirement house in the country last year, the shop/garage has more square footage than the house....excellent.
But the previous owner had 8 300 watt incandescent bulbs in the garage. I bet on a mild winter day you could leave the furnace off. The hydro bill must have been sky high, I bought 8 5000 lumen led 4 foot fixtures and as Red Green would say, "And Bob's yer Uncle"


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

I used to be able to watch Red Green in Pennsylvania on my local PBS channel. I guess they considered it a cultural import. like Masterpiece Theater.


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## Castleford (Oct 21, 2018)

bontai Joe said:


> I used to be able to watch Red Green in Pennsylvania on my local PBS channel. I guess they considered it a cultural import. like Masterpiece Theater.


Another Canadian icon in the same vein was the 'Bob & Doug' team.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_and_Doug_McKenzie


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Harbor Freight 5000L $20.00..
Its as brite as the sun..
ONLY thing I dont like about'm is>> they ARENT LINKABLE..so I only have 1 hanging over my shop work table.. & by golly, THATS ALL u need..


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

thepumpguysc said:


> Harbor Freight 5000L $20.00..
> Its as brite as the sun..
> ONLY thing I dont like about'm is>> they ARENT LINKABLE..so I only have 1 hanging over my shop work table.. & by golly, THATS ALL u need..


How much heat does that strand of 12 incandescent lights put off? I gave up my 20x 20 air conditioned room to the wife for her furniture restoration business back in October. Installed 60" ceiling fans over both work benches/lifts, but I'm still not looking forward to July here in NE Mississippi. You got A/C in your work space there in SC?


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Nope, no A/C..


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## deerhide (Oct 20, 2016)

We are blessed, in central Labrador, with a very low electricity rate. I like flourescent lights and I usually get them at my stepson's electrical contractor shop. I just ask the 'boys' who work there to save me a good, taken-out, light or heater or whatever I need.


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

I'm going a slightly different LED route: four solar panels on the south hip of the roof feed 12v to an off-grid charge controller/multi-battery storage system to power 12 automotive off-road LED light bars. I found 24" long 12 V off-road light bars on ebay, so six of those on the ceiling will be powered from the solar system. All the work bench lights will be smaller 12" light bars. I'll likely even use 12v LED strip lights to provide filler light, and light strips shining up on my Handy lift to illuminate my cycle projects from the bottom up. 

Around the shop I also have wired 12v outlets to plug in my cycles and keep the batteries up. I can adjust the output of the charge controller to the batteries to maintain about 12.7 volts in the system. At least, that's the plan. I have always wanted to experiment with solar power and this is my 1st ever system.


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

Sounds great! Please keep us up to date on how this works out. I've toyed with the idea of solar power, but I'm afraid that we don't get enough sunny days to make it work well, plus snow covering the panels pretty much messes up winter time.


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

You in PA me in WI, we suffer much the same winter issues. So I'll update this winter to see how it performs.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

You can get sun intensity estimates based on you zip I believe


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Yup. Same source gives the angle for the solar panels to optimize the power.

"If she doesn't find you handsome, she better find you handy."

I loved a couple Red Green episodes in particular: the annual waders blowup contest, and the one where Red builds a Zamboni from a K-car.

Actually, any of the K-car conversions are funny. I think Red did one where he attaches the front 1/2 of a K-car front end to a boat trailer. Or where he put two front ends of K-cars together, to make an AWD K-car. And since this is a Lawn Tractor forum, how about this:


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

If you guys up North need some sunshine this Winter, let me know, I can send you some for $20 a box + shipping....

You've got to be careful opening the box though, it evaporates QUICK, and there's no warranty/refunds if the box leaked


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Tell ya what, trade ya even up, box of sunshine for a box of pure white winter snow. Same warranty/refund policy applies.


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## deerhide (Oct 20, 2016)

LED lights.
Somewhere, in a box, in one of my sheds, I have a 50 year old? airplane headlight.......the real bright ones for night landing. It has a flat/horizotal beam and is VERY bright. Should brighten up the workbench, I wonder if it has a toxic colours?


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

I have one as well and the one I have is incredibly bright and I've shot a beam of intense light a good 600 - 700 feet down to my Creek.


deerhide said:


> LED lights.
> Somewhere, in a box, in one of my sheds, I have a 50 year old? airplane headlight.......the real bright ones for night landing. It has a flat/horizotal beam and is VERY bright. Should brighten up the workbench, I wonder if it has a toxic colours?


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

deerhide said:


> LED lights.
> Somewhere, in a box, in one of my sheds, I have a 50 year old? airplane headlight.......the real bright ones for night landing. It has a flat/horizotal beam and is VERY bright. Should brighten up the workbench, I wonder if it has a toxic colours?


Not if you're behind it.... I'm thinking the guy coming at me would flicker his lights a little in protest if I were to mount something like that, but that's probably exactly what I need so I can see well enough to ride my motorcycle at night again at my age

I'm about to go out on E-bay. Thanks for the idea..... Do you know if they come with both high and low beam?


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

For night riding you can't have enough light, especially for two lane back roads in wooded areas. I have seen some deer in northern Mississippi, not near as big as the one here in Wisconsin, but i wouldn't want to encounter one anyway. 

I've mounted some decent twin LED lights on my BMWs; on the left side is a driving light beam, on the right is a flood light beam. I found them on ebay, and was able to buy each light individually to get the driving/flood combination. Each is 30 watt and put out bright white light with decent range. I wired them with a relay, and I control the ground side of the relay coil with a mini push button switch mounted into the LH mirror mount hole. I can access the switch at any time with my LH index finger without moving my hand on the grip, so I can use them with the low beam or high beam on my bikes. In fact, once the headlight on my BMW failed and I was able to ride home using the LEDs. Too bad these LEDs come from China, as I won't buy them anymore.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

andyvh1959 said:


> For night riding you can't have enough light, especially for two lane back roads in wooded areas. I have seen some deer in northern Mississippi, not near as big as the one here in Wisconsin, but i wouldn't want to encounter one anyway.
> 
> I've mounted some decent twin LED lights on my BMWs; on the left side is a driving light beam, on the right is a flood light beam. I found them on ebay, and was able to buy each light individually to get the driving/flood combination. Each is 30 watt and put out bright white light with decent range. I wired them with a relay, and I control the ground side of the relay coil with a mini push button switch mounted into the LH mirror mount hole. I can access the switch at any time with my LH index finger without moving my hand on the grip, so I can use them with the low beam or high beam on my bikes. In fact, once the headlight on my BMW failed and I was able to ride home using the LEDs. Too bad these LEDs come from China, as I won't buy them anymore.


I like this idea MUCH more than replacing the bulb with an LED bulb. The reflectors in a headlight are designed around a halogen element. Once you stick in an LED replacement, the beam pattern may be way off. There are plenty of people that should realize that, but don't care because they get more light to see. what they fail to take into account is that you just blinded the on-coming traffic with in excess of 100mph closing speed.


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