# Unknown year make model Ford I am trying to rebuild for use on my farm



## Kenyon77

Hello everyone, I recently bought a Ford back hoe/front end loader for $2000. It needs a bit of work, but I have used it and everything seems to function (although it is loose and sloppy). I want to go through it and replace seals, bushings and whatever else is wrong with it to make it more efficient but I can't figure out what the heck it is. Based on what I have figured out doing research in the internet, the numbers that should tell me everything I need to know are right next to the starter. Those numbers are: 7B14B, 7C3, B835051. My searches on the internet seem to indicate that my tractor is newer than 1975, thus nobody but me cares what it is. Some other numbers are as follows: Casting number of block, lower front driver side- E2NN 6015 BC. Casting number on block upper rear driver side- HH 5J30. On top of the transmission where the seat is mounted- 957E-4033A. On the driver side of transmission- C5 NN 4024H. On back hoe- 291680. Loader tag I9-450 SN 3718. Like I said, I have been all over this thing trying to find numbers that give something useful on the internet with no luck. It is a 3 cylinder diesel, rear tires are 16.9-28, front tires are 7.50-16. I really don't know what else I can say to possibly help ID this thing aside from it being Yellow (although it has clearly been repainted at least once). Any help you guys can provide would be amazing!


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## willys55

I guarantee if you post a few pictures we can tell you what it is


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## Kenyon77

willys55 said:


> I guarantee if you post a few pictures we can tell you what it is


I've tried to post pictures. For some reason my phone won't allow this forum to access my photo album. I will try taking pictures directly through the site tomorrow when it's daylight.


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## BigT

Howdy Kenyon77, welcome to the forum.

There is a flat spot just above and behind the starter. These numbers, 7B14B, 7C3, B835051, appear to have come from that spot, but the model number is incomplete. The B835051 is a Basildon serial number. The Date code 7B14B, translates to February 14th, probably 1967, day shift. But the 7C3 is not complete. Part of it must be obscured by dirt or paint. Wire brush the area and find the rest of the numbers.

There may also be a sticker under the hood with these numbers


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## Kenyon77

BigT said:


> Howdy Kenyon77, welcome to the forum.
> 
> There is a flat spot just above and behind the starter. These numbers, 7B14B, 7C3, B835051, appear to have come from that spot, but the model number is incomplete. The B835051 is a Basildon serial number. The Date code 7B14B, translates to February 14th, probably 1977, day shift. But the 7C3 is not complete. Part of it must be obscured by dirt or paint. Wire brush the area and find the rest of the numbers.
> 
> There may also be a sticker under the hood with these numbers



Thank you for both the welcome and the information. I thought the same thing about the 7c3 being incomplete. I had already wore brushed the heck out of the thing and I went extra nuts on that area in hopes of finding more numbers. I'm relatively certai that if there ever were more numbers there, they are gone forever. The confusing thing is that the numbers that are there are relatively clear and there are no signs of damage that would have obscured them. Knowing the year it was made is already a huge stepmom the right direction for me, thank you for taking the time to decipher numbers for me. I am going to make another attempt at posting pictures here in a few minutes. I'll post one of the numbers so you all can see what I am talking about.


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## willys55

post a photo of the right side, profile type photo


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## Kenyon77

willys55 said:


> post a photo of the right side, profile type photo



I would love to, unfortunately, every photo I take is too large and I can't access my photo album because this site hasn't asked permission which prevents me from granting said permission. I am going to try transferring photos to my computer then see if I can crop them and post them from there.


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## willys55

change the pixel setup in your camera or phone, if you are using photo bucket you will not be able to post them here, it is always best to keep them on a zip drive or pc, then upload from there. I tried to upload from my tablet the other day and it was difficult but worked


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## willys55

my camera can be set to 540 format when ever it is needed for posting that photo on a forum


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## Kenyon77




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## willys55

need to get a few more shots, looks like a 3400, but need a grill and dash panel photo


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## Kenyon77




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## willys55




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## willys55

75 Ford 3000 would be my assumption. still think there are a few numbers missing but that photo you posted looks real clean


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## pogobill

Could it be a 3500 or a 4500? Just trying to narrow down the raised section of the hood/rad, and the low mounting brace on the front sides of the loader, as apposed to the mid height brace on other models. And there looks t be a bit of blue paint in there as well!


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## Kenyon77

I have scrubbed further and still can't find any more numbers there. If there are other picture angles that could be of help, I will gladly post them. I truly appreciate the time you guys have put into helping some dude you don't even know!


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## willys55

yea, that raised hood line is whats messing me up at the end of where the grill would be, 3500 is a good match as well, not so sure about the 4500 though


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## willys55

as a matter of fact, I believe 4500 is a far more accurate match, I don't think I have ever seen a hoe on a 3500 before


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## Kenyon77

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference between a 3500 and a 4500? Particularly when it comes to buying parts. Are the parts interchangeable? Thanks again for all of the help.


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## pogobill

You know what, I'm starting to lean towards a 420. Although the sheet metal and the year (1977) work better, I'm still looking for a 420 with the lower mounted FEL frame work on the side. Would the lower frame brace for the FEL be because of the backhoe frame work needing to tie in?
Kenyon77, the 3500 would be a 39 HP Diesel and the 4500 would be a 45 HP Diesel.


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## willys55

I just did a google search and 420 was the only model that carried the bump to the edge of the grill, you have a great eye pogobill.


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## Kenyon77

I see. Thank you for that. So aside from the motor, the other components (namely the hydraulics) should all be interchangeable?


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## RC Wells

The first three digits are the production code: 7 = 1977 The Serial number indicates it was made in Basildon in the UK. 

From there on the industrial tractor production codes and serial numbers are sketchy because they were made in the UK, Belgium, and USA (michigan), and coordination was nonexistent. 

Part way through the 1977 model year the US production moved to the UK. After that all single letter serial number leaders changed to two letters, ie., the leading B on the serial number would be BB.

The metal instrument panel and steering cowl is for a 1977 Ford 420 if there is provision three hole cutouts in the vertical right side where the key is installed, for a 1979 through 1981 340 if there are only two hole cutouts. However your date code of 7 is 1977.

Most of the sheet metal is interchangeable between the two models, so over the years a lot of swapping has taken place.

The other way to discriminate between the two is engine displacement. The 420 is a 3 liter, while the 320 is a 2.9 liter. The tach should have a mark at 2,000 rpm for 540 rpm PTO on the 340, and 2,200 rpm on the 420.


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## willys55

Spot on RC Wells


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## Kenyon77

Wow! Thank you RC Wells! So it seems I have a 1977 Ford 420. I don't know if that's good news or bad news as far as the machine goes, but it is great news to know what I have so I can start replacing worn parts! I looked at the tach and there are a few marks on it but none match up with the numbers you posted. I will post a pic so you can see what I'm talking about. Mine has two cut outs where the key goes. I don't know if someone moved my ignition switch or what, but mine is on the left side. Either way, both sides have only two cutouts so that makes it a 1977. I really appreciate the help you guys have given me on this!


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## Kenyon77




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## RC Wells

The top short mark at 2,500 rpm is the redline, the marks at 1,825 and 1,950 rpm are the 540 rpm pto recommendations. 

Looks like Brit version tachometer for the 1977 420.

Ford made excellent industrial tractors, but they did not break down enough so ended up causing dealer repair shops grief - no billings for constant repairs. Operators would buy one and run it for decades, no new repeat sales for worn out equipment> Same was true for Case and that is why both are now crappy spaghetti owned.


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## Kenyon77

Great! Thanks again for all of the help! Now it's time to start replacing things! I may have to call on you guys again in another thread for a little help. I do ok with cars and trucks, but don't know anything about tractors and all of their hydraulic gadgetry.


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## sixbales

Kenyon, I posted a question on the yt Ford tractor forum regarding ID of your block casting number E2NN 6015BC. I got the following response from *Destroked 450: *

"Casting number doesn't tell me much other than it was a model designed in 1982.

A 3 cylinder block with a 4.4 bore will work as a 192 or 201 engine depending on which crank and pistons one uses." __________________________________________________
Your block was designed in 1982. This means that your engine was swapped out at some point in its life. Common occurrence. My tractor has major components from 3 different tractors.


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## gregjo1948

I'm thinking it's a 3500. I thought the 4000 series were 4 cylinder.


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## tcreeley

I took the pic that was posted with the numbers and blew it up. It looks like there are numbers there covered over with paint. They are right above the red line I put in. You'll have to really enlarge it to see the outlines.


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## sixbales

REALLY fine work TCreeley. OK Kenyon, let's have those numbers.


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## duke7595

Kenyon77 said:


> View attachment 35162
> View attachment 35163
> View attachment 35162
> View attachment 35163


You can't go wrong with the price you paid, $2,000.00 with a working FEL and BH , heck you stole it for that price. My guess would be a 3400 model, if I'm not mistaken Ford used the 3400
platform on their commercial models as well as the larger 4000, 4500, 5000 ect. In any event you got a great deal, good luck with it.


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## Kenyon77

tcreeley said:


> I took the pic that was posted with the numbers and blew it up. It looks like there are numbers there covered over with paint. They are right above the red line I put in. You'll have to really enlarge it to see the outlines.
> View attachment 35216
> View attachment 35217



Those were the numbers I posted in the original post. They are: 7B14B. I stopped wire brushing as soon as I could definitively see what they were.


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## thepumpguysc

Loose the wire brush & get some paint/gasket remover in a spray can..
spray it on, wipe it off..
Get the #'s off the injection pump & we could have ended this thread 32 posts ago.. lol


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## Kenyon77

thepumpguysc said:


> Loose the wire brush & get some paint/gasket remover in a spray can..
> spray it on, wipe it off..
> Get the #'s off the injection pump & we could have ended this thread 32 posts ago.. lol



If the engine was swapped from a different year, make and model wouldn't it stand to reason that the injector pump was swapped as well?


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## thepumpguysc

"IF" my Aunt had a *ick, she'd be my Uncle..
I see no mention of an engine swap.. you??


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## willys55

there was a vision we didnt need


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## Kenyon77

thepumpguysc said:


> "IF" my Aunt had a *ick, she'd be my Uncle..
> I see no mention of an engine swap.. you??



Yes, actually. If you read the thread instead of imagining your aunt with a *ick you would see that SixBales mentioned that the engine is an '82 while the tractor is a '77. Therefore, unless they were putting engines made in 1982 intontractors 5 years before they were made I suspect an engine swap may have taken place. Now, instead of being an @$$hole, let's stay on topic. I don't know what provoked you, but I am asking a simple question. If it's too complicated for you to be helpful instead of throwing out genitalia anecdotes it might be better if you just kept silent. If you'd like to be helpful, I truly appreciate the help that you, and all the rest of you who are far more knowledgeable than I, are willing to provide.


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## thepumpguysc

Sorry it was meant to be a joke.. & I missed the part about the engine swap..
When your wrong, your wrong..


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## pogobill

Thanks for that pumpguy! A lot of us do look forward to your input on technical issues. 
Now here's another zinger for everyone to get a handle on. I've looked high and low for a 420 with the *F*ront *E*nd *L*oader frame mounted along the bottom of the sides of the tractor with no luck, most are mounted with the frame work running along the side mid way down the side. The Ford 4500 seems to have the loader mounted as yours is, but the 4500 seems to be a bigger tractor than yours!?!? So... a 3500 / 3600??


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## Kenyon77

thepumpguysc said:


> Sorry it was meant to be a joke.. & I missed the part about the engine swap..
> When your wrong, your wrong..



I fully respect that. Sorry for my over reaction. I get a little sensitive at times I suppose. Let's be besties!


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## Kenyon77

pogobill said:


> Thanks for that pumpguy! A lot of us do look forward to your input on technical issues.
> Now here's another zinger for everyone to get a handle on. I've looked high and low for a 420 with the *F*ront *E*nd *L*oader frame mounted along the bottom of the sides of the tractor with no luck, most are mounted with the frame work running along the side mid way down the side. The Ford 4500 seems to have the loader mounted as yours is, but the 4500 seems to be a bigger tractor than yours!?!? So... a 3500 / 3600??



As much as I would love to contribute to this conversation, I'm afraid I don't know a thing about tractors. The amount of information you guys have already figured out is baffling to me and even as I read what you're saying only about half makes any sense. I don't know what the differences are between 420s, 4500s, 3500s, 3600s... If there is something I can add to help let me know and I will try. Also, I will try to get some numbers off that injector pump tomorrow after work if I can. Thanks again guys for all the help.


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## pogobill

Do you have the missing sheet metal parts? Fenders, hood etc.? Could be some identifiers such as a sticker or such, under the hood for instance.


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## Kenyon77

pogobill said:


> Do you have the missing sheet metal parts? Fenders, hood etc.? Could be some identifiers such as a sticker or such, under the hood for instance.



I do have the hood, but there are no signs of any numbers or anything on it. It looks like the tractor has been painted several times and most likely taping off details was not high on the priority list. If it helps, I will try to post a pic with the hood on to see if that sparks anything.


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## thepumpguysc

I do have a warped sense of humor.. Especially after work, when my fingers find their way to the frig.. if ya know what I mean??
If you can get those #'s we might be able to "narrow the field" abit..
BUT PLEASE don't scrape the plate.. you'll thank me later..


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## Kenyon77

thepumpguysc said:


> I do have a warped sense of humor.. Especially after work, when my fingers find their way to the frig.. if ya know what I mean??
> If you can get those #'s we might be able to "narrow the field" abit..
> BUT PLEASE don't scrape the plate.. you'll thank me later..



I pulled the injector pump out today, I'm gonna scrub it in the parts washer tomorrow and see what I can find as far as numbers and such. When you say not to scrape, are you including a wire brush? I have some paint thinner I could use instead of the parts washer if you think that would work better, but I need to know why so I can work around that knowledge. Is it just a matter of the metal the plate is made out of being easily scratched? Thanks again for the help.


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## thepumpguysc

Yes very easily scratched.. on the older mdls the #'s were "painted on" The newer mdls are "stamped on".. either way, they are easily removed & are very important for future fuel system repairs..


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## Kenyon77

thepumpguysc said:


> Yes very easily scratched.. on the older mdls the #'s were "painted on" The newer mdls are "stamped on".. either way, they are easily removed & are very important for future fuel system repairs..



Ok. Thanks for the warning! I woulda probably scrubbed them right off. I'll start with the parts washer and a plastic brush and work up from there.


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## Kenyon77

Ok, so I have cleaned it up the best I can and there are some numbers. On the line that starts with "DPA" painted on and ends with ""MOD" also painted on, there is a stamped number between those markings that is: 3 (or maybe 8)233P(or maybe B)390. For clarification, I think the number is 3233P390, but the first 3 and the P are questionable. The serial number looks to be 3?236 TS. There is a significant dent where the ? is and I can't even venture a guess what it was. Hopefully these modest hints can give me an idea what this thing is so I can see about a rebuild kit for it. Thanks again for all of the help guys. You're awesome (even Pumpguy).


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## thepumpguysc

The pump fits a Ford 201ci in a 4000 tractor.. the pump # is a 3233F390
I hope this helps.. TPG


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## Kenyon77

thepumpguysc said:


> The pump fits a Ford 201ci in a 4000 tractor.. the pump # is a 3233F390
> I hope this helps.. TPG



Thank you! That will help a ton!


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## Kenyon77

Just to be sure, the CAV7135-110 rebuild kit should be what I need to rebuild that little guy, right?


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## thepumpguysc

YES.. afew other parts are MUST REPLACE as well..
7123-19 blades, they come in a 2 pk..
7139-540 liner.. pay attention to the cut out, it goes "IN"..
The metering valve is a 7123-490E.. replace if any visible marks/discoloration are on it..
Take the gov. plate off as AN ASSEMBLY.. remove/bend tabs on the 2 studs & small centering screw & lift off.. DO NOT remove the screws on the "link rod"..


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## Kenyon77

thepumpguysc said:


> YES.. afew other parts are MUST REPLACE as well..
> 7123-19 blades, they come in a 2 pk..
> 7139-540 liner.. pay attention to the cut out, it goes "IN"..
> The metering valve is a 7123-490E.. replace if any visible marks/discoloration are on it..
> Take the gov. plate off as AN ASSEMBLY.. remove/bend tabs on the 2 studs & small centering screw & lift off.. DO NOT remove the screws on the "link rod"..



Ok, so there's a little more to it than just tearing it apart and replacing all of the things in the kit. I'll order all of the parts you mentioned today and get to it. I really appreciate the advice! Maybe I'll get lucky and find a YouTube video.


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## Kenyon77

I know everybody says they are gonna post pics of the results, but most people get too caught up in the next adventure. I figured I would post some pics of the rebuilt injector pump. I am about to get started on the motor this weekend. Thanks again for all of the advice and help!


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## thepumpguysc

Congrats.. It looks like she cleaned up nice.. Did you do the rebuild??


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## Hacke

I am not familiar with the industrials, but some things caught my attention on this one.
The tractormeter goes clockwise (generator cable), that is not 1977 (oil pump cable, anti clockwise).
Where there any 3500 or 4500 made in 1977?

If my eyes serves me right, there is a rectangular opening on the side of the front cowl. I searched the NH online parts lists and could only find one possible front cowl, the one for 4500 1965/1 to 1971 (see attached screenshot).

I go for 1967, that would fit the serial number. The first 6Y (68-75) 3000 unit had B851094, first 4000 unit had B851097.
It is not impossible that B835051 on Kenyon77´s tractor is an early 1967 serial number.
This number serie is for "Domestic" market, not "Export". The industrials where not fully assembled/equipped at the Basildon plant. They left the plant as "skid units", to be completed elsewhere.
The two date codes on the same part of the tractor could indicate that the unit left the Basildon line February 14th, and was completed elsewhere March 3rd. A model code would have been nice though.

Guessings:
Even if some where exported after the final assembly, the skidded units where not exported directly from the plant and where all treated as "Domestic".
The code for the chassis type "Skidded" was 19, but it would make no sense ta stamp a model number at Basildon. The important code is the one for the final product, and the stamping of that one was left to be done at the final assembly. That was not done, or at least not at the proper place.


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## Kenyon77

thepumpguysc said:


> Congrats.. It looks like she cleaned up nice.. Did you do the rebuild??



Yeah, I found a YouTube video and just followed along with the guy as he went. It wasn't as bad as I expected, but I'm sure I would have hit a few road blocks if I had tried to do it myself. I really appreciate all of the help you guys have given! I would have had no idea where to start without you!


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## Kenyon77

Hacke said:


> I am not familiar with the industrials, but some things caught my attention on this one.
> The tractormeter goes clockwise (generator cable), that is not 1977 (oil pump cable, anti clockwise).
> Where there any 3500 or 4500 made in 1977?
> 
> If my eyes serves me right, there is a rectangular opening on the side of the front cowl. I searched the NH online parts lists and could only find one possible front cowl, the one for 4500 1965/1 to 1971 (see attached screenshot).
> 
> I go for 1967, that would fit the serial number. The first 6Y (68-75) 3000 unit had B851094, first 4000 unit had B851097.
> It is not impossible that B835051 on Kenyon77´s tractor is an early 1967 serial number.
> This number serie is for "Domestic" market, not "Export". The industrials where not fully assembled/equipped at the Basildon plant. They left the plant as "skid units", to be completed elsewhere.
> The two date codes on the same part of the tractor could indicate that the unit left the Basildon line February 14th, and was completed elsewhere March 3rd. A model code would have been nice though.
> 
> Guessings:
> Even if some where exported after the final assembly, the skidded units where not exported directly from the plant and where all treated as "Domestic".
> The code for the chassis type "Skidded" was 19, but it would make no sense ta stamp a model number at Basildon. The important code is the one for the final product, and the stamping of that one was left to be done at the final assembly. That was not done, or at least not at the proper place.



I appreciate the info. I'm sure some of the folks in here will be able to have an intelligent conversation with you about it. Sadly, I don't know jack about any of this stuff, but I'm learning as I go.


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## Kenyon77

Hey guys, me again. I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread or keep going with this one. I have pulled the engine and front half of the tractor apart. I was just wondering if, after getting his deep into it, there were some other numbers I should look for or other clues as to what, exactly, this creature is? Thanks again for all the help you all have given.


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## Alpha77

Kenyon, go to this link, it shows all your tractor info. You have a nice Hoe for the money, you did good, whats cool about Ford/International/case/New Holland is a bunch of parts fit eachother.
http://www.tractordata.com/industrial-tractors/000/1/1/118-ford-4500.html


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## sixbales

Howdy Kenyon, way back in 2017 (July I think), I emailed your tractor's numbers to Sean Stanton, Guru when it comes to identifying old Ford tractors via the numbers stamped on them. He doesn't check his email, so his response comes 6-7 months late; however, here are his comments FWIW:

"So sorry I didn't reply sooner. I don't monitor that email address much these days. That serial number, B835051, should be a 1960's Basildon UK serial number. They ran two different s/n sequences at that factory, one for tractors intended for domestic UK sales and the other for exporting outside of the UK. The domestic tractors started at 000001 and the exports started at 800001, so 835051 was only in the first couple of years of production for the 3 cylinder thousand series. So the date code 7B14B means February 14 (Valentine's Day), 1967. The other number looks like a date code for March 3, 1967, so the transmission was probably assembled on Feb. 14 and The tractor was assembled on March 3. None of them are a model number. The early European built models sometimes had some of the numbers stamped on the same flat spot on the left side instead of the right side."

I don't know if this will help you or not, but I didn't want Sean's comments to be wasted. There's some really useful info here regarding Basildon serial numbers.


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## Hacke

See attached info.
It is Ford's documentation regarding the updated 1000-series (6Y, Force). These numbers are for units assembled on April 1, 1968 (50th anniversary in a few days).

B835051 is a Domestic serial number, 16043 units before April 1, 1968. That is how I got that the tractor in question could have been made in 1967.

There are more information on fordsontractorpages.nl wiki:
http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1354
Thanks to Brian and Oscar.

Unfortunately, the site is going down shortly (I suppose the wiki is as well):
http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7479
.
Edit:
I have uploaded the files to the "Manuals" section:
https://www.tractorforum.com/manuals/ford-1000-series-identification.11/
.
.
.


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## sixbales

Howdy Hacke, good to see you back on the forum again. Really good information. Looks like you got it right long ago.

My guess - It is probably a 3500. The New Holland parts site says they were made 1965-1974. Tractordata.com indicates 1965-1968. Either way the date fits. What did you conclude regarding model of this tractor??


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## Hacke

Greetings Sixbales!

There has not been much 1000-series chatting on the forum, so I have stayed passive.

I voted for 4500 because of this:


Hacke said:


> ...
> If my eyes serves me right, there is a rectangular opening on the side of the front cowl. I searched the NH online parts lists and could only find one possible front cowl, the one for 4500 1965/1 to 1971 (see attached screenshot).
> ...


Not much to go on, cowls could have been swapped and then there are jigsaws...
I might even be seeing wrong, it may be a sticker or so.
.
.


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## sixbales

Hacke....That's more basis than I have!!

Kenyon......A 3500 would have a 175 diesel, whereas a 4500 would have a 201 diesel. Can you post the raised casting number of the engine block (right hand side of the engine).


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## Kenyon77

So... For some reason I never got any notification that there was activity on this thread. Sorry about that. The engine is a 201ci. I only know this because I am just finishing up the rebuild and the kit that I installed was for a Ford 201 based on the measurements of pistons, rods and crank. I haven’t got it back together yet, so if it’s wrong I suppose I’ll find out the hard way. 

There is definitely a rectangular hole in the side as indicated in the above illustration. It is present on both sides. 

The casting number on the engine is: E2NN 6015 8C

I wouldn’t be surprised if this was not the original engine, and all data I have received seems to indicate that this engine is late 70’s early 80’s, which is inconsistent with the info received based on the numbers retrieved from the transmission bell housing. I really appreciate all the effort everyone here has put into helping some dude y’all don’t know! It says a lot about what kind of people are on this forum!


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## thepumpguysc

see post #51..


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