# Craftsman GT5000 multiple issues HELP!!!!



## rbeasley (Mar 6, 2015)

New to the forum here and thanks for any help in advance!

I have a Craftsman GT5000 model 917. 276020 with Kohler engine that has setup for about a year. It ran fine when I parked it. I know Stabil would have been worth its weight in gold, but that's another issue. So here's what I have:

1. The ignition switch will not start the mower. I have tested the switch with volt meter and everything checks out fine. I can jump the starter solenoid from the battery and it will turn over. Ground wire is good, terminals are good. No power to the solenoid wire when key is turned though. (I am doing all of this testing with a jumper box since I don't want to spend money on a battery if the repairs are not worth the mower. I'm not cheap, I'm broke. There's a difference.)

2. So I jump start the starter solenoid and it turns over, but will not crank. I bypassed the seat safety switch and tested the clutch switch so those 2 are not the culprit. I pulled the plug on the right side and it is getting fire and sparking. New gas was added. I can make it run by shooting carb cleaner in the carb in short bursts but instantly dies when i stop. Fuel line is free and clear up to carb. I have voltage to the fuel solenoid with key switch turned on. I'm pretty sure you're going to tell me to rebuild the carb, but it seems like alot of work to get the carb off this thing. Any other suggestions?


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

Welcome to the forum!

I'm no expert, but it sounds like a fuel issue.

1. Fuel pump? Is the fuel pump working. They're usually run on interrupted vacuum off the carburetor.

2. If the fuel pump's working, it sounds like a gummed up carburetor. Disassemble it, check the float for cracks/holes, and if everything looks good, break it down to as many parts as you can, fill a pot full of straight vinegar, put carburetor and parts in the pot, and boil it for half an hour. This will make your house stink for a few hours. I used to use carb cleaner back in the day, but I struggle finding something that works with our lovely faux green movement and EPA labels on everything, so I use vinegar 'cause it is an acid, and it's quite a rust remover and parts cleaner. Once the carb cools, blow it out with compressed air if you have it, reassemble it, and Bob's your uncle. 

A few years after the 10 - 15% EPA approved ethanol gas arrived on the market, I started having carburetor troubles. I think I've "rebuilt" one each year for the past three - four years. I never buy a rebuild kit. I only replace items that are shot. If I can't reuse the gaskets, I make new ones out of soda pop/cereal boxes. 

good luck,
bolillo


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

Welcome to the forum !
When these engines sit for a while,things get gummed up,or corroded.
The wire to the solenoid could be rusted,OR it could have a corroded/burned main fuse.Connect a test light to the wire,turn the key to the run position,and wiggle the connector at the switch. If it flickers,or lights,it's corroded.Clean it.
Just because you have power to the fuel solenoid,doesn't mean it's working.
Remove the solenoid,and see if it actually MOVES,when power is applied.
If it doesn't , replace it . If it does, remove the carb bowl,and clean the jets,bowl, etc.,and also check to see if the float needle is letting fuel through.


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## ftorleans1 (Jul 12, 2009)

Welcome to the forum rbeasley! The fuel shut-off solenoid should click if it is working properly. If so, The carb. most likely needs to be cleaned. I've never tried the vinegar trick however, "Spray Nine" works very good as well.

As for removing the carb, It may look complicated but trust me, It's a lot easier once you start into it!!!!!! If you've never had a tractor of this type, The hood comes off extremely easy... Simply disconnect the head light wires and you can open the hood to approx. 80% open and pick up the hood. It sits in a cradle bracket and removes very easy...

Once you have the hood out of the way and remove the air cleaner assy., it's just a matter of 15 to 20 minutes and you will have it removed. One VERY important note, You will need to pull the carb. forward just a little bit on the studs and at the same time, Move the throttle linkage slightly so you can manipulate disconnecting the throttle cable. The choke has a little plastic retainer which you flip up and it allows the plastic retainer to be removed and then the choke cable will slide off of the bracket.

If you do have to pull the carb., Follow the tip I just mentioned so you don't bend the throttle cable rods....

Once you do one, It is very easy!!!!!!!!! Let us know what you find........


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## rbeasley (Mar 6, 2015)

Great advice guys! With that little bit of knowledge I went back and worked on it some. I made a bad mistake with all my testing. I tested everything seperate instead of together. With that being said, I tested the carb solenoid (with a jumper wire which was a mistake for troubleshooting later explained), it works great. I cleaned the carb while i was that far. Still nothing, so I tested electrical from the ground up and found out the problem. My ignition switch tests out fine by itself on an ohm meter, but when connected to harnass it has 12v going in, and 5.30v coming out of switch. Which is obviously just enough to give false ohm readings for if "it works" or not. Which is also why the carb solenoid isn't opening on its own, etc! So....new ignition switch ordered and hoping for all problems to be solved tomorrow!

Everything appeared to work individually, but not when it was all together. Stay tuned tomorrow and maybe I won't have any other issues! 

Thanks Guys!


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## rbeasley (Mar 6, 2015)

ftorleans1- I sure wish I would have been patient and waited on your reply. That's an awesome writeup on exactly what to do for this mower. I had a few moments on what to do next, but worked through it fine. I'm definitely saving this as a how to for the carb removal if I ever need to again! 

Thanks!


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

You might try unplugging/plugging the key switch connector a few times to "clean" the contacts.


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

I'm not the brightest tool in the shed, and I don't do repairs daily, so I often snap photos of what I'm about to tear apart so I can keep a record in case the part gets the best of me during reassembly. All those springs and rods that come off the governor really baffle me sometimes. 

I constantly loose the needle valve gasket. It looks like a tiny fish eye. I forget to pop it out, and when I blow the carb out after the bath, I lose the needle valve gasket. On my small 1 cylinder engines, I generally have to replace the O gasket for the bowl, but those are the only parts I buy, and it's roughly 5 bucks for everything. 

Vinegar is a very effective hassle free cleaner. When you're done with the mix, you can safely dump it on weeds or down your drain. The best bit of vinegar is that you don't have to do any scrubbing. Boiling a part in vinegar speeds it up and it will completely remove a heavy film of carb gunk in short order.

On steel, you can immerse the part in boiling vinegar for 30 seconds - a few minutes, and it will yield a poor man's bluing by leaving a protective patina. I do this to all my 1095 knives I use outside of the house. While it won't prevent rust entirely, I don't have to be concerned with cleaning my knife immediately, 'cause the vinegar patina gives a noticeable level of protection. 

It leaves aluminum looking clean as the date of manufacture or turns it into a uniform dull grey color. I guess it depends upon the alloy content.

Up for your consideration, I restored an old jersey pattern axe 'cause those cheap Chinese mystery steel jobbers one finds at Lowes/Home Depot don't last, soft steel, won't hold an edge, and the fiberglass handles... 

head as received 









12 hours in a room temperature 100% vinegar bath









24 hours









36 hours









light coating of oil after hanging the head. Vinegar did all the cleaning for me. I did not scrub it at all. 









I wish I'd have listened to older relatives in the 70s - 90s rather than buying all sorts of cleaners and rust removers. Vinegar really works well. It may be slow, but it does get the job done.

Cheers,
bolillo


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

I would think the ignition fuse is good??


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## rbeasley (Mar 6, 2015)

I'm not seeing an ignition fuse anywhere! I've traced all the wires around thinking there should be several fuses but there's none that I can find. Oh yea...the new switch did not change any results. So now, I have 12v to the starter, and 12v to the switch on the B terminal, and NO VOLTAGE anywhere else no matter where the key switch is. I'm completely lost now why I'm losing voltage everywhere else.


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## rbeasley (Mar 6, 2015)

OK! Electrical problem solved thanks to a rat chewed the wire! Now....12v going to fuel cut off solenoid, but not hearing it "click" when turned on. Turns over fine, but not starting up.


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

Ok, I'll admit, I'm used to old junk, so all this talk about some electric fuel solenoid just baffled me. All I could think of was some affair similar to the DB2 mechanical injection pumps on 6.9 diesels in Ford trucks, so I went off and googled it.

Is this what you lot are talking about?

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr6UayxyVwU[/ame]

If so, I had no clue they added stuff like this to lawn equipment. 

Thanks for reading,
bolillo


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## rbeasley (Mar 6, 2015)

That is the exact video I googled and took it off my mower and sure enough it was gummed shut and wouldn't move at! I didn't know it was supposed to "plunge" during initial cleaning and its a lil sad how gummed up everything was. I can hear my dad cussing me now about not adding Sta-bil.  

So with that being said..... MY MOWER IS RUNNING GUYS!!!!!!

Only small issue I'm having is the PTO is not staying engaged, but I'm assuming that is due to an electrical PTO and the battery is enough to run the mower, but not keep the PTO engaged. (does that sound correct to you all???)

Thanks everybody soooooooo much! I was about to lose my mind chasing down multiple problems, and ya'll were ALOT of help!!!

Thanks,
rbeasley


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

The Operator Presence Relay controls the ground circuit to the PTO.

IF thew supply voltage is flaky (seat switch) or a contact on it is bad (either pin 85 or 86), it could exhibit the problems you mention.

How did you "bypass" the seat switch and is it still in that state?


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## rbeasley (Mar 6, 2015)

I bypassed the switch by taking the spacers and springs off the long bolt shaft and tightening the nuts on either side (youtube video again), installed the switch back in original placing, tested both wires with ohm meter to make sure that the seat switch is "activated" all the time. I plan on putting it back to original when all the other kinks are worked out, but this was the easiest for me to test the mower by myself. (I also hay-wired the clutch down for testing because I couldn't get to that switch as easy).

I can make the PTO kick in at any time, but it only runs for short bursts. Maybe 5-20 seconds each time. I could push/pull the PTO button every second and it would kick on and shut back off but continually run. Somewhat....

In my opinion, that switch SHOULDN'T be causing the issue because it never did not respond at all. It just would not stay on. But I wouldn't be here if I had all the answers! I'll entertain any idea you all have!


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

You have a 15 AMP charging system, so that is plenty to operate the PTO AND charge the battery, run lights etc.

Clean the connectors on the OPR.

With the seat switch wired closed, turning the key switch On/OFF repeat should make the OPR (and fuel solenoid) CLICK.


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## rbeasley (Mar 6, 2015)

guessing the OPR is on the right side of mower below the battery? That's the only thing I hear "click" when I turn on the key. But, that's done with same results. No new battery yet.


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

It'll look like this-


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## rbeasley (Mar 6, 2015)

Ok, I bought a new battery today, but first I wanted to clean the OPR just for troubleshooting/help later. I cleaned the OPR terminals and still the same result with the PTO only staying engaged for 2-5 seconds. I then installed the new battery....

My mower is back like brand new!!! PTO runs non stop, will idle, cranks on command, has power, lights, etc! You guys are awesome and thanks! I know not everybody had the absolute correct answer, but between all of them I feel like I'm back on a dependable tractor that any or the reasons above could have been the problem.

So to solve all of my issues it was:
1: Faulty ignition switch (which worked fine the day it was parked)
2. Rat chewed almost all the way through positive wire right past the ignition fuse holder.
3. Fuel cut off solenoid on bottom of carb bowl completely gummed up.
4. Gummed up carb. (pretty sure vinegar is the best kept secret of the industry!)
5. Bad battery causing the electrical PTO to not stay engaged.

Really can't thank all of you enough. Who knows how much money I saved by doing it myself with some great advice!


Thanks everybody!


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## ftorleans1 (Jul 12, 2009)

Excellent rbeasley!!! Happy to hear everything has worked out and you saved a bunch of money.................... Doesn't get much better.............

Best To you!!!


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

Yep,with a bad battery,it had no amperage to hold the PTO engaged.
Forgot about that!


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

I thought it would crank if you jumped the solenoid with the old battery?
IF that's the case, the old battery wouldn't be *THAT* bad, considering you have a 15 Amp charging system.

That should be more than adequate to keep the PTO engaged, unless the battery was so bad, it basically "sucked up" all the alternator output. Not likely if the battery could crank the engine.


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## rbeasley (Mar 6, 2015)

All that testing was done with a jumper box. The battery was completely dead. I assumed the charging system would run everything by itself, but obviously not with my tractor. It made just enough juice to turn on the PTO for about 2 seconds and then it would quit. 

But to answer your question, no the battery would not even click the starter without a jumper box. Sorry if I confused you.


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