# Ford 5000 pto question



## Jessy Few (May 22, 2020)

Hi new to the forum and I’m having trouble figuring it out. Technology has got me here.... anyway hope to get some answers. I bought my dads 74 ford 5000 and the hydraulic oil was terrible... I drained the oil under the gear shift and out of the rear diff. I replaced it with new. Had a lot of mixed answers on how much to put in Both places. Added roughly 33 quarts to rear and 8 to the gear shift. Now the pto will not stop turning. But when engaged and disengaged I can stop it by hand. Worked perfectly before with the nasty oil. Any answers would be greatly appreciated.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Did you use the proper spec oil for the tractor?


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## Jessy Few (May 22, 2020)

pogobill said:


> Did you use the proper spec oil for the tractor?


Yes sir I used 134 d from tsc.


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## EdF (Sep 15, 2014)

Howdy Jessy, welcome to the forum.

If your problem is that the PTO shaft turns when disengaged, but you can stop it with your hand, some late model 5000's have an external PTO brake adjustment on the left side of the center housing (see bottom of attached picture). Loosen the locknut and tighten the screw just a _little bit till the shaft rotation stops. Then re-tighten the locknut.








_


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## Jessy Few (May 22, 2020)

EdF said:


> Howdy Jessy, welcome to the forum.
> 
> If your problem is that the PTO shaft turns when disengaged, but you can stop it with your hand, some late model 5000's have an external PTO brake adjustment on the left side of the center housing (see bottom of attached picture). Loosen the locknut and tighten the screw just a _little bit till the shaft rotation stops. Then re-tighten the locknut.
> View attachment 57083
> _


Thank you very much that helps a lot I was wondering what that plug was someone said it was the fill mark. I really need to get a Manuel. Thanks again I will adjust it.


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## Jessy Few (May 22, 2020)

I adjusted the screw and it did not do
Anything. The pto still spins an can be stopped by hand when engaged and disengaged


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## EdF (Sep 15, 2014)

Well, it's supposed to work. So much for that. From your description, you need a shop/repair manual. There are pressure checks you can make to see if the pressures are right for the clutch pack.


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## Jessy Few (May 22, 2020)

Ok sounds good I will order a Manuel as I need one anyway. Thanks a lot for your help.


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## MrChris (Oct 4, 2018)

There is a plug on the back of the tractor. Stand behind the PTO and look on the left side of the housing from the PTO shaft. That is the fluid level check. I usually just fill from here until I see fluid leaking. I then run the hydraulics (especially the remote) and top off.

Can't help much on the operation issue you are having, but it sounds like the clutch is not engaging. The way this system works is that the lever presses in a plunger on the PTO clutch housing. This then diverts hydraulic fluid to the PTO clutch. The engine shaft and the PTO have plates like a Motorcycle Clutch and when the hydraulic fluid presses on the piston, these plates are forced together and transfer PTO power. When you shift the PTO the other way, a spring on the plunger is supposed to push it back out, this cuts off the hydraulic pressure and a spring moves the piston back releasing pressure on the plates.

It is very common for the fluid remaining in the PTO clutch to allow the PTO to turn with no load. This is why there is a brake on the PTO shaft. However, unless you are using a very light load like a sprayer, most people just ignore the problem as any significant load will keep the shaft from rotating. To fix the Brake, you have to remove the Lift Cover and that is a royal PIA. Only breaking the tractor is more of a pain.

As for why your clutch is not engaging, I can't say. The manual lists the following as possible causes:

Low rear axle oil level
Failure of independent pump
Fracture of connecting pipe
Pressure relief valve stuck open
Pressure relief valve spring broken

Excessive oil loss past cast iron sealing rings
Cluutch piston seals leaking

I know all this as I've been trying to get my PTO to release. Either my plunger is stuck, or the spring on the plunger or on the Clutch are busted. Either way, it looks like I'm going to have to pull my Lift Cover and figure out what is going on. it's the only thing on my machine that does not work properly. Starting the engine with a PTO attached and powered is not good for the starter.

There are 2 different manuals. The commonly found I&T and a reprint Ford shop manual. Do yourself a favor and get the Ford version. It is much more useful.

https://www.themotorbookstore.com/ford-tractor-service-manual-series-2000-7000-1965-1975.html

That link has it for $40. 

BTW, the capacity of the rear axle is supposed to be 34.8 US quarts. You don't say what transmission you have, but the 8 speed takes 10.8 quarts and the Select-o-speed takes 11.8.

Hope that helps


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## Jessy Few (May 22, 2020)

MrChris said:


> There is a plug on the back of the tractor. Stand behind the PTO and look on the left side of the housing from the PTO shaft. That is the fluid level check. I usually just fill from here until I see fluid leaking. I then run the hydraulics (especially the remote) and top off.
> 
> Can't help much on the operation issue you are having, but it sounds like the clutch is not engaging. The way this system works is that the lever presses in a plunger on the PTO clutch housing. This then diverts hydraulic fluid to the PTO clutch. The engine shaft and the PTO have plates like a Motorcycle Clutch and when the hydraulic fluid presses on the piston, these plates are forced together and transfer PTO power. When you shift the PTO the other way, a spring on the plunger is supposed to push it back out, this cuts off the hydraulic pressure and a spring moves the piston back releasing pressure on the plates.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for the detailed response that’s the information I needed. I will get a Manuel as well. I am going to reflush the system and see what happens. I do have the 8 speed transmission. I will write back with results. Hope to get it fixed soon hay is on the ground. Thanks again.


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## Jessy Few (May 22, 2020)

Has anyone heard of “priming” the pump.


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## Dave Zielesch (May 26, 2020)

Jessy Few said:


> Hi new to the forum and I’m having trouble figuring it out. Technology has got me here.... anyway hope to get some answers. I bought my dads 74 ford 5000 and the hydraulic oil was terrible... I drained the oil under the gear shift and out of the rear diff. I replaced it with new. Had a lot of mixed answers on how much to put in Both places. Added roughly 33 quarts to rear and 8 to the gear shift. Now the pto will not stop turning. But when engaged and disengaged I can stop it by hand. Worked perfectly before with the nasty oil. Any answers would be greatly appreciated.


Jessy: This very same thing happened to my 5000 (similar year mfr) about a month ago and what I found was that the high pressure tube that leads from the pump to the clutch and activation devices for same had blown off the pump. I discovered this by removing the round cover on the left (if you are sitting on tractor) side of the tractor, next to the pto lever. I saw it just laying there, but once I replaced the tube with fresh tubing from NAPA, along with fresh ferrules, the PTO behaved like it never had before my ownership. I am only the second owner of this tractor, so the original owner is a friend and he had told me that the PTO did this "anomaly" quite frequent before I bought it, so I figured I would just live with it. Eventually, the PTO just stopped working. Incidently- should you brave a upper removal,- which is a good idea, if you are thorough, check out the PTO lever and make sure that all things associated with it are intact. I discovered the retaining spring and plunger ball bearing in the bottom of the sump. Upon repair of all items, I now have a working PTO.


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## Jessy Few (May 22, 2020)

Dave Zielesch said:


> Jessy: This very same thing happened to my 5000 (similar year mfr) about a month ago and what I found was that the high pressure tube that leads from the pump to the clutch and activation devices for same had blown off the pump. I discovered this by removing the round cover on the left (if you are sitting on tractor) side of the tractor, next to the pto lever. I saw it just laying there, but once I replaced the tube with fresh tubing from NAPA, along with fresh ferrules, the PTO behaved like it never had before my ownership. I am only the second owner of this tractor, so the original owner is a friend and he had told me that the PTO did this "anomaly" quite frequent before I bought it, so I figured I would just live with it. Eventually, the PTO just stopped working. Incidently- should you brave a upper removal,- which is a good idea, if you are thorough, check out the PTO lever and make sure that all things associated with it are intact. I discovered the retaining spring and plunger ball bearing in the bottom of the sump. Upon repair of all items, I now have a working PTO.


Thanks for the information I actually thought about that happening. I’m going to try to open the covers up an see if I can find anything wrong.


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## sam$0$ (Aug 28, 2019)

Hey Jessy. I’ve been watching your post for a few days. I’ve been able to help a few people with similar issues. That picture that Ed shared with you of the adjusting screw is a picture of my tractor that I posted a few weeks back. Try removing the round access cover below the left foot board. You can see quite a lot of what’s going on with a flashlight and an inspection mirror. You can feel some of the components by reaching into the hole. The PTO clutch and brake band is right behind that adjusting screw. You should be able to feel the band around the brake. You can see and feel the line going to the clutch.
If you can’t fix it through the access hole, then pulling the top lid is not a big deal. It’s just nuts and bolts. BUT, it’s VERY HEAVY! You won’t be able to lift it by hand, and guide the filter tube out or in. You will need a hoist of some kind. I did it by myself, but it’s really a 2 person job. You can do it, though. I would order a gasket kit and a new filter before you start. I would also put a new Oring on the lift arm piston while you have it open. That’s an easy job. If you would like more information, or just words of encouragement, let me know. I can send you some pictures and pages from the manual. I have a video that I took through the access hole, but I can’t figure out how to upload it.


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## Jessy Few (May 22, 2020)

sam$0$ said:


> View attachment 57265
> Hey Jessy. I’ve been watching your post for a few days. I’ve been able to help a few people with similar issues. That picture that Ed shared with you of the adjusting screw is a picture of my tractor that I posted a few weeks back. Try removing the round access cover below the left foot board. You can see quite a lot of what’s going on with a flashlight and an inspection mirror. You can feel some of the components by reaching into the hole. The PTO clutch and brake band is right behind that adjusting screw. You should be able to feel the band around the brake. You can see and feel the line going to the clutch.
> If you can’t fix it through the access hole, then pulling the top lid is not a big deal. It’s just nuts and bolts. BUT, it’s VERY HEAVY! You won’t be able to lift it by hand, and guide the filter tube out or in. You will need a hoist of some kind. I did it by myself, but it’s really a 2 person job. You can do it, though. I would order a gasket kit and a new filter before you start. I would also put a new Oring on the lift arm piston while you have it open. That’s an easy job. If you would like more information, or just words of encouragement, let me know. I can send you some pictures and pages from the manual. I have a video that I took through the access hole, but I can’t figure out how to upload it.


Thank you very much Sam I will be taking your advice and looking into it this weekend. Hay got wet anyways an a darn Deere had to come bail me out. I really appreciate all the help. I’m pretty mechanically inclined but this one had me baffled. Thanks again


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## Haden Buckmaster (Oct 23, 2019)

Jessy Few said:


> Yes sir I used 134 d from tsc.


when the the tractor is run a while and the oil get warmed up the pto should quit running my Ford 3000 does that i run a brush hog I just hold the pto until i get the pto shaft to the bush hog hooked up.


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## Jessy Few (May 22, 2020)

Well fellas I wanna take the time to thank everyone for their help. It’s fixed and it was minor. Understanding the system helped a lot. That adjustment screw was token out and the brake fell away. After taking it apart and putting it in the wrong screw hole the second time was a charm and got it in the right one and she is back to normal. Hope to be able to return the favor of everyone that helped me.


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## sam$0$ (Aug 28, 2019)

Outstanding.


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## JoeA. (Nov 14, 2021)

I have a Ford 5000 diesel. The pto turns constantly and I can stop it with my hand, but that's all it will do. The lever that engages it seems to have no effect. Either lever position I can stop the pto shaft by hand. I'm not sure if my 5000 has a hydraulic pto or a 2 stage clutch pto. I'm not sure how to tell. Any help would be much appreciated.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

No need to tell. The 5000 was never offered with a two stage clutch, only with independent PTO. What you're describing sounds like a lack of supply and/or pressure to the clutch pack. The PTO valve on the 5000 is supplied from a small gear pump section on the hydraulic pump through a plastic tube from the pump to the valve. There should be a pressure test port or fitting on the pump housing to which you can attach a hose and a gauge to check that pressure. I don't have the spec handy but I'd expect it to be around 125 to 150 PSI.


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## MrChris (Oct 4, 2018)

JoeA. said:


> I have a Ford 5000 diesel. The pto turns constantly and I can stop it with my hand, but that's all it will do. The lever that engages it seems to have no effect. Either lever position I can stop the pto shaft by hand. I'm not sure if my 5000 has a hydraulic pto or a 2 stage clutch pto. I'm not sure how to tell. Any help would be much appreciated.


The PTO on all 5000 models is a hydraulic clutch mechanism. The lever moves a plunger that directs fluid from the main pump into the wet clutch area.  The pressure holds the clutch plates together which transfers the power from the PTO shaft coming from the transmission to the PTO outlet. When a lever is moved out of "gear" a spring moves the plunger, the pressure is cut and the clutch is allowed to relax.

The problem with the 5000 is that there is always fluid in the clutch, so just a like an automatic transmission torque converter, the fluid can keep the PTO shaft turning. Like you found, it can usually be stopped fairly easily. The way the factory did this was to install a brake. There is an adjustment on the outside of the tractor, but the location changed a couple times during the run. Regardless, the brake will stop working again in short order. So long as you don't have anything light like a sprayer hooked up, the attachment generally is enough drag to keep the PTO from turning. Just use good sense when near the PTO. The only safe PTO is when the engine is OFF.

Now, why won't yours engage? There can be a couple reasons, but until you open up the tractor and look, there is really no way to be sure. Many tractors have an inspection port just in front of the lever you can use to see some of the parts. Otherwise, you need to lift off the top of the rear axle.

I strongly recommend getting a copy of the factory service manual. There are plenty of copies available. For this job, the 3rd party manuals don't have enough detail in my opinion.


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