# 8N Power Loss



## Glen640

For a couple of decades, I had an 8N with a Wagner loader on the front and a brush hog in the rear. Whether it was high grass or a heavy load in the bucket, it did what needed to be done. So I know the 8N can do the job. But eventually it died and recently I replaced it with another 8N. It has started easily and runs great. Or so I thought. When I put the loader on this one, it handled the loader pretty well except when pulling a hill in which case I had to shift to first gear to make it up. Then when I added the brush hog and tried to cut some grass, it died whenever I let the clutch out. It won’t run the brush hog. I don’t really know where to start looking for the problem. Any thoughts?


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## RC Wells

The first thing I check on the early gas fords is valve clearance and compression, once I know the ignition system is good.

The issue with these engines is they were designed to use leaded fuel to lubricate and cushion the valves. Low lead and unleaded fuel will eventually require hardened valve seats and new alloy valves or the engine compression (and power) goes away rather quickly.


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## Glen640

Thanks for your response. I used to have a compression tester so I will look for that. In the meantime, you mentioned a good ignition system. My thought has been that if starts easily and runs smoothly, without missing, that the ignition system is good. Bad assumption?


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## pogobill

Try your governor rod and see if it's sticking. If it isn't working as it should, it could cause the tractor to stall or shut down. I had this issue with my Cockshutt 60. Worked the rod back and forth by hand, and haven't had a hitch with it since.


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## RC Wells

Ignition system issues can range from low power from a weak spark, to missing and stumbling, or failure to run. A weak yellow spark will not ignite and burn the fuel in the correct timing sequence, and diminishes power very quickly, yet an engine will start and run smoothly.

Pogobill's suggestion to check the governor is a good idea too. If the governor does not compensate for load by opening the throttle valve, the engine will have low power.


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## willys55

check the governor first, might even need to pull the it off and , make sure it is not slipping on the shaft


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## Glen640

pogobill, when you mentioned the governor rod, did you mean the one running from the throttle to the outside lever or the one running from the carb to the inner lever? The spring seems too loose so I will try to snug that up. The inner lever did not have much "play" in it but the outer lever had quite a bit (side to side, meaning left to right if you are sitting on the seat). Some of that seemed necessary for the carb-to-inner-lever rod to get by. But the rest I don't know. Any thoughts as to whether that means anything?

RC Wells, my recollection when testing the spark was that it was white but I will retest. If yellow, what things should I be changing to improve the spark?


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## Glen640

I would like to swap out the governor on my for-parts 8N with the one on the 8N I am having trouble with to see if it is the generator causing my problem. Disconnecting the generator bolts, the oil supply line, and the Proofmeter cable seem straight forward enough but disconnecting the control links from the inner and outer levers puzzles me. The shop manual is no help as it says " disconnect the control links from the governor levers". How do you do this?


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## pogobill

Glen640 said:


> pogobill, when you mentioned the governor rod, did you mean the one running from the throttle to the outside lever or the one running from the carb to the inner lever? The spring seems too loose so I will try to snug that up. The inner lever did not have much "play" in it but the outer lever had quite a bit (side to side, meaning left to right if you are sitting on the seat). Some of that seemed necessary for the carb-to-inner-lever rod to get by. But the rest I don't know. Any thoughts as to whether that means anything?
> 
> RC Wells, my recollection when testing the spark was that it was white but I will retest. If yellow, what things should I be changing to improve the spark?


I was referring to the one on the back. Once the throttle is set, if the tractor encounters some resistance like pulling a plow or even going up a hill, the rear lever should, through the action of the governor, push the lever back causing the connected rod to open the throttle a little to keep the power constant. 
I think the ends of the governor rods snap together like a ball and socket join. Never tried it myself, so check you manual thoroughly to see if there is an explanation some where else in the manual. I find this issue with a few of my manuals. You sometimes need to follow the procedure through a few different components to get to where you want to be in the disassembly.


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## VFord8N

For me the governor was a culprit, so you may want to read my posts on dwindling performance. I'm not sure if that is your problem; it certainly was for me. A new governor did wonders in restoring my tractor's performance.


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## Glen640

VFord8N said:


> For me the governor was a culprit, so you may want to read my posts on dwindling performance. I'm not sure if that is your problem; it certainly was for me. A new governor did wonders in restoring my tractor's performance.


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## Glen640

How do I find your posts on dwindling performance?


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## pogobill

Glen640 said:


> How do I find your posts on dwindling performance?


Here you go!
https://www.tractorforum.com/threads/dwindling-performance-8n-finally-fixed.36911/#post-272529


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## Glen640

Thanks Bill

Following the governor lead. First step is to swap out governors with my 'for parts' 8N (which didn't have this problem when it was running) and see if I get improvement. If need be after that, I will spring for a new generator.


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## Ultradog

This will not make me popular here but I'm going to say it anyway.
Standard procedure for determining a no run, poor run gas engine is 
First check and VERIFY that you have a bright bluish white spark that will jump at least 1/4" in open air.
No where in this thread do I read that this has been done.
Second step is to VERIFY good fuel flow.
Nowhere in this thread do I read that this has been done.
On an N series there is a plug on the bottom of the carb. Remove it and insure that it will pee gas into a can for a full minute. Then replace the plug.
Next most important test is to insure good air flow.
Remove the air tube from the carb and try it that way.
If all three tests show good function check the spark plug wires on the distributer to insure they are installed in the right order.
I see a LOT of assumptions in this thread that it MIGHT be valves or the governor or even that it might be the generator.
Remember: NO ASSUMPTIONS ALLOWED.
Do your proper tests First and VERIFY


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## Glen640

I can’t speak for the others, but your comments did not make you unpopular with me. They were good suggestions.

I probably should point out though that the tests you have suggested I had performed previously thanks to suggestions from responders. Since that took place in a previous post with a different title, you would not have known that. And some of the posters to this one were involved in helping before with this tractor and may or did remember that, I don’t know.

The only thing that disappointed me about your post was the comment near the end. You said, “Remember, NO ASSUMPTIONS ALLOWED”. There are some folks like me (I think) that need help in solving some of these mechanical problems and I personally welcome assumptions because they give me something to think about and pursue that I wouldn’t have thought about myself. In the process, I am learning new things and hopefully will remember them in the future when problems arise. So I am hoping that is not a hard and fast rule for Tractor Forum posts

That’s my two cents worth.


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## Ultradog

Glen640 said:


> The only thing that disappointed me about your post was the comment near the end. You said, “Remember, NO ASSUMPTIONS ALLOWED”. There are some folks like me (I think) that need help in solving some of these mechanical problems and I personally welcome assumptions because they give me something to think about and pursue that I wouldn’t have thought about myself. In the process, I am learning new things and hopefully will remember them in the future when problems arise. So I am hoping that is not a hard and fast rule for Tractor Forum posts
> 
> That’s my two cents worth.


I had a gruff old Bosun's Mate Chief as our drill instructor in boot camp.
He was a kind of a sob who didn't care a whit about our feelings but taught us a heck of a lot and at the end of 13 weeks of training we no longer feared but loved the guy and were proud of ourselves for what we had accomplished.

There are lots of folks around who care a lot about not offending others.
I won't try to pass myself off as one of those.
However, as best I can I promise to Always to give you the straight dope on your tractor, which is, I think, what you came here for.
Jerry


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## Glen640

I don’t know if any of you who contributed a solution to my problem are interested in how it turned out or not but here it is.

After swapping out the governor from my old 8N and testing it under load conditions, it appears it is the governor that is the cause of my problem with this tractor. I was able to do the types of things with this governor that I was not able to do with my previous governor. That said, it is not perfect and I wonder if it would run really well if I sprung for a new governor but at $300 for a new one in order to find out, I think I will live with what I now have. Thanks to all who contributed their thoughts on this project.


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## pogobill

Well Glen640, glad you narrowed down the problem, just sorry that it's a $300.00 fix! Thanks for the follow up!
Is there any way you can clean and rebuild the original governor that you removed? May still be pricey, but half the price of a new governor.


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## Michael Tomes

RC Wells said:


> The first thing I check on the early gas fords is valve clearance and compression, once I know the ignition system is good.
> 
> The issue with these engines is they were designed to use leaded fuel to lubricate and cushion the valves. Low lead and unleaded fuel will eventually require hardened valve seats and new alloy valves or the engine compression (and power) goes away rather quickly.


The valve issue is Exactly what First came to my mind. I’m an ASE Master Engine Machinist ( fancy for i know Engine Machining) like was stated. Unleaded fuels without hardened seats is not good. Works fine for a while but the valves keep sinking lower and lower into the block or “burn”. Time for s compression check. If it’s down around 80 or so ( I’ve never checked a good one) I’d say there’s your problem. Hardened seats can be installed but it’s a major job and good luck finding a machine shop that can or will tackle it. Best of luck to you!


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## VFord8N

pogobill said:


> Well Glen640, glad you narrowed down the problem, just sorry that it's a $300.00 fix! Thanks for the follow up!
> Is there any way you can clean and rebuild the original governor that you removed? May still be pricey, but half the price of a new governor.


Thanks for the update. In my case, the governor was the last piece in the system that could be troubling me. I had all the electrics and fuel delivery system checked/replaced before I replaced the governor. My tractor then transformed from a lawn ornament to its utility self. It can move out of its parking place without using a choke, it will steadily climb hills as its load increases. It is now operating just like it should be. The governor seems to be a sealed unit with no apparent parts to replace; but then again everything can be disassembled, given enough time and effort.


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