# Milk cow kicks



## NutmegCT (Jun 6, 2009)

My neighbor has a wonderful devon cow, just gave birth four days ago. First pregnancy.

Unfortunately the cow rejected the calf (kicking, butting, etc.) so they're separated. When neighbor tries to milk the cow (cow's head in stanchion), she kicks and flails around like you wouldn't believe. So he put on a "kow kant kick" device - a screw-tight U shape restraint, over her back and in front of her pelvis, with the arms pressing in just in front of her upper rear legs.

http://www.valleyvet.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?img=group_images/17164_A.jpg&q=50&W=200&H=300&z=2

He can't get it to work at all; cow kicks just as much with the restraint on as without the restraint. I did some reading and found that the device is supposed to go in front of the *pin bones*, not the pelvis. Pin bones are much farther back on the cow, underneath the start of the tail.

Does anyone know of a picture of this device on a cow? I can find hundreds of pictures of the Kow Kant Kick all over the internet, but not a single one of the device on a cow.

Milking that cow requires three guys to push against the cow's side, her other side leaning on the wall. Owner tries to milk best as he can, but it's a disaster. And if he tries using the kick restraint, it sure isn't doing any good the way he's using it.

I'd really appreciate knowing exactly where that restraint is supposed to be placed and angled, especially a picture of it in use.

Many many thanks.
Tom in Connecticut


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

Did you contact the company?


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## NutmegCT (Jun 6, 2009)

Thanks for the reply. The device is made by Coburn; other web sources are just retailers that never give info on placement, other than a direct quote from the Coburn website. I've emailed Coburn but haven't yet received a reply. 

Coburn's website actually says "To use, slip over the animal's back and crank the handle to immobilize the muscles of the rear legs that control kicking. It works on either side of the pin bone. "

Pin bones are under the tail; most web picture of the device show it place just in front of the hooks (pelvic bone protrusions).

Actually I'm pretty amazed that there a lot of discussion of using the KowKantKick device, but no pictures of it in use, other than a very old photo I found on a "home farm" site that was geared toward amateurs.

Thanks.
Tom


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

Is her udder or teats perhaps injured causing a sensitivity?


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## urednecku (Aug 29, 2007)

Milking a cow that doesn't wanna be milked can be a pain. I've never seen that device in person, but we have tied the milking-side leg to a post, or maybe a little out behind her, so the foot or leg can't get to ya. So she can't pick it up to kick, or she'd fall. 
Also, have you tried milking needles? They will make it a lot safer, and easier, than having to milk the whole bag by hand.
GOOD LUCK!!


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## Dugout (May 13, 2010)

Is it usual for cows to refuse milking?


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

Dugout said:


> Is it usual for cows to refuse milking?


I've worked on a couple dairies, milking, and certainly seen cows that were sensitive, but a cow kicker, or hiking the tail up in the air right at the base, usually curbed it. This sounds like there's an injury to the udder or something, to me.


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## NutmegCT (Jun 6, 2009)

Thanks gentlemen. I think the big problem is that it's her first pregnancy. Her mother was also skittish (but not nearly so much as this one). It's just the double whammy of rejecting the calf and having to do all the milking with a young cow that's *really* sensitive. Udder and teats seem very normal, and she's letting down lots of milk. More than her mother ever did.

One issue with that KowKantKick device is that it might be losing its shape (about 10 years old, lots of use). And when it's put on this young devon cow, it doesn't really get "tight" down at the lower flank in front of the leg - even when cranked up very tight up on top. Due to the shape of the cow, the device gets tight on the upper part of the pelvis, without really "closing" the arms down at the lower flank.

Tom


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## Dugout (May 13, 2010)

You have any pics Tom? I didn't grow up around this stuff so I have no idea what any of this looks like.


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## NutmegCT (Jun 6, 2009)

Hi Dugout. Here's a link to the device itself. It's relatively painless to the cow; just sits over her back and presses in on the muscles in front of her rear legs so she can't kick out. This is the cow's first milking, and she's just a hair too small for the device to work; even when it's closed all the way, the width of her hips at the top prevent it from fully closing at the bottom where it counts.

http://www.coburn.com/imagelibrary/public/items/Large/208.jpg

Vet says she's perfectly fine; just doesn't want to be milked. As she's making a *lot* of milk, that leads to tight and tender teats.

Tom


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## al b (Feb 6, 2009)

I seem to remember years ago when I was a kid we would tie one of the front legs up that way the cow had three legs and would not kick. If you try it be very careful.


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## Dugout (May 13, 2010)

Thanks for the pic, NutmegCT. Not growing up around this stuff I envisioned a pretty crazy looking contraption.


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## NutmegCT (Jun 6, 2009)

Success! I just tried a different restraint, the "kick stop". See the picture. It's just a bent (adjustable) bar that hooks over the cow's spine at one end, and under the flank in front of the leg on the milking side. It works! She tried kicking once and never tried again. The kick stop pokes her in the flank muscle, so she can't kick.

Yeehaa!

Tom
PS - the picture is just an example. That's not my cow. I got a new kick stop, played around with it 'til I got the length adjusted, and put it on. Looks like she won't get turned into hamburger after all.


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

Good to hear you got it to work the old kick restraints we used where like law enforcement leg shackles.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

That's the style I'm familiar with. Glad to see you got her under control. Hope the calf didn't die of starvation in the meantime!


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## smiley4jc (Apr 16, 2011)

I realize this is a very old discussion...but just in case someone else has this problem I'll put my two cents in. We have done the "tie the near foot to a post" method, which does work. We also have what my hubby calls "Kickers". Consists of two 'S' hooks, one attached to each end of an approx. 3' piece of 1" wide nylon webbing with a tightening device in middle. Attach each 'S' hook to cows 'ankles and tighten to where it's just comfortable for her to stand. If she tries to kick, it will pull other foot and also be uncomfortable on her ankles...tendons. 

Also, to train her, hubby's grandmother used to keep a small length of broom handle handy when milking a new cow. She would keep her left knee up against cow's leg...if the cow attempted to kick, she would 'smartly' tap cows foot about at the hair line. I've tried this with one cow we had and only had to do it a couple times before she figured out she didn't want to do that anymore. lol Of course, this was AFTER she had already kicked me hard enough to rip my jeans at the knee and place a beautiful, mulit-colored, hoof print shaped bruise on the inside of my knee...and cause me to say many words I later had to repent for!


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## Foxfire (Apr 17, 2011)

I've always had good luck working the enlistment angle.. make in their best interest to cooperate.. grain, carrots, peace, trust, confidence, that sort of thing.


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

Feed helps but theres always that 1 cow that will test you...


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## rsmith335 (Jun 2, 2010)

smiley4jc Are you a woman? If you are, a great big welcome, if you arn't, welcome. We need input from both genders on all topics. We get to kidding about stuff on this site and might sound like we are male pigs, which might be a good label for me, that's not how really am. And if a step over your line, let me know. And I will word things differently.:lmao: Welcome


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## rsmith335 (Jun 2, 2010)

Woops That was susposed to be for NutmegCT


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## grnspot110 (Aug 1, 2010)

*Kick her back!* 

We used the chain & hook type when we needed them, which wasn't too often with our Holstein herd. ~~ grnspot


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## smiley4jc (Apr 16, 2011)

LOL Rick!!! I am, in deed, a woman. I am, however, married to a full-fledged, 100% ******* male so I really doubt anyone is going to be getting anywhere close to "my line". I'm not easily offended...but I'll talk personally to whomever might do that and we'll get it straight. I ain't got the time or energy to go around getting ticked at every little thing someone says. 

I am not an expert at much of anything but know just enough about just about everything to know that I don't know all that much. (follow that?) I help my husband with whatever he needs helpin' with. We have 6 of our 7 kids still living at home, we home school and live on 5 acres which we attempt to make feed us all the best we can. We have too many horses, not enough milk cows, the hogs have moved their residence to the freezer, a handful of chickens, some dogs and 2 cats. I can build fence, help overhaul a motor, birth a calf, hoe in the garden and then clean up real nice for church. lol I reckon I'll fit in.

As for miking the cows, our previous favorite was fantastic. Feed her, milk her...no probs. No head gate, no rope...nothing. If she got finished eating before I was finished milking, she'd just stand there. She'd never been milked AT ALL when we bought her and left her first calf to come live with us. Next morning, hubby tells me she's gonna need some relief. I stood as far back as I could and still get water on her bag to wash it...she never kicked. Later, at times she would pick up a back foot to signal me that a horsefly was on whichever side foot she picked up. I would get up, kill horsefly and resume milking. Cow before that was the one that kicked me. We had a mutual hatred of each other. I would call her everything but a cow in as Christian manner as I was capable of on a regular basis. And I ALWAYS put the kickers on her after our "incident". It really just depends on the cow.


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## Foxfire (Apr 17, 2011)

Go Get um Smiley. I grew up on a small family farm.. there were 5 of us kids.. back then it seemed we got most everything we needed from the land.. except enough money for the banker folks.. starting to wonder if that might be the real problem we all face today (making enough $$ to feed the $$ people). found myself back milking again some 30 yrs later (helping out a neighbor)... it all seems to be about $$ now.. Cows are just a # in a production line in modern farming. So me neighbor had a beautiful BIG Holstein heifer (#51) that learned that people just go away if you kick them hard enough -- she'd buck, lift her rear off the ground and kick with both back feet like a horse.. she'd aim right for your chest. So when she freshened, the party started. she'd flip out if she even saw you walk by the kicker (I actually used that as a threat when she acted up). the only way to approach her was on her terms, to enlist her.. it took years to gain her confidence.. even then, you'd want to be real careful around her.. last I heard, Bob hired some young feller to help with milking. #51 put the kid in the hospital. I heard she ended up on the truck.

OBTW, I still find my world revolves around harvesting life from the sun. 

Foxfire Energy Corporation - Vermont Renewable Energy Installers


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

Foxfire said:


> Go Get um Smiley. I grew up on a small family farm.. there were 5 of us kids.. back then it seemed we got most everything we needed from the land.. except enough money for the banker folks.. starting to wonder if that might be the real problem we all face today (making enough $$ to feed the $$ people). found myself back milking again some 30 yrs later (helping out a neighbor)... it all seems to be about $$ now.. Cows are just a # in a production line in modern farming. So me neighbor had a beautiful BIG Holstein heifer (#51) that learned that people just go away if you kick them hard enough -- she'd buck, lift her rear off the ground and kick with both back feet like a horse.. she'd aim right for your chest. So when she freshened, the party started. she'd flip out if she even saw you walk by the kicker (I actually used that as a threat when she acted up). the only way to approach her was on her terms, to enlist her.. it took years to gain her confidence.. even then, you'd want to be real careful around her.. last I heard, Bob hired some young feller to help with milking. #51 put the kid in the hospital. I heard she ended up on the truck.
> 
> OBTW, I still find my world revolves around harvesting life from the sun.
> 
> Foxfire Energy Corporation - Vermont Renewable Energy Installers



This is very true... kinda like a child having a tantrum to get their way until they realize its not working anymore..


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## Country Boy (Mar 18, 2010)

We have a cow that *hates* my dad for some reason. She is bound and determined to put him in his place (well at least his place according to her). As a young heifer she bucked him in the barnyard, and also pinned him to the bobcat once. He grabbed the empty Crystalyx barrel and cold clocked her up side the head with it, and it just made her pause a bit. That was all he needed to jump into the Bobcat. Every time he milks her, she moves around on him, and she reaches back with her head and bumps him. She also bumps him when he walks past her stall when feeding. Around me, she's a little sweetheart. No idea why she likes me and not him. He's the one that gives her grain, and the one that fed her milk as a calf.

Her great grand mother is the sweetest cow you could find (she turned 15 this past Feb). They look almost identical, so you have to be careful out in the barnyard as to who is approaching you. The cow in my Avatar is her Grandmother. We had to ship her about a year and a half ago because she was getting cancer. She only made it to 11.

As for milking a heifer, the situation described by the OP is pretty common among new heifers. That's why we spend the last month or so before they freshen to make a point of spraying them with the iodine pre-dip and rubbing their udder just like we do with the milk cows. That gets them used to their udder being touched and it also helps to desensitize the teats. When we started doing that, we immediately had fewer issues with heifers kicking. Having them out on pasture in the summer helps too, because they get more relaxed and less stressed. My dad made a deal with me a long time ago that I would milk all the new heifers because he got sick and tired of dealing with them. With most of them, I am big enough that I can simply grab their leg and hold it steady while pushing their weight onto the other leg so they can't kick. Not possible on some of our Holsteins, but it works great on the Jersey/Holstein crosses, though they are smaller than a normal Holstein.


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## daniel2229 (Jun 5, 2011)

Hey, you guys are really patient. I would have let that cow go dry and sold her really fast.


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## CDragonworks (Dec 23, 2011)

We finally learned to give up on the ones that are meaner snot...the last one that we got had been milked on a milker line and was plain mean when we tried to work around her. Kicking the bucket and finally turning a full on kicking me high on the upper leg... My feeling is if they are that bad and rejected the calf...time to add COW BE GONE!!!! We did and I am glad. Milk is not worth being put in the hospital over!


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## rdp70 (Dec 11, 2012)

Place a small stick horizontally under her tail. She will be so concerned about holding the stick she won't have time to kick. Learned this trick 60 years ago while hand-milking.


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