# Fendt Farmer 280 P tractor with Deutz F4L 913 engine: maximum safe cylinder head temperature.



## NTSOG (Dec 13, 2021)

G'day, 

I have a Fendt Farmer 280 P vineyard tractor, probably built around 1996, and imported into Australia by a major vineyard company. It has the Deutz F4L 913, 4.086 litre engine.

TractorData.com Fendt Farmer 280P tractor information

This tractor was clearly damaged, even crashed, and somewhat abused/neglected before I bought it. It is no longer 4 wheel assist, but serves me well on my small farm doing many jobs including hay cutting. When purchased four years ago it was still putting out 59kW/79 HP at the PTO as tested. The electrical system is 'tired': some instruments on the dash work correctly. Others may not be accurate. I'm careful to watch engine temperature under load, but cannot be certain that the simple factory temperature gauge is still accurate. I've worked very hard to clean the cooling fins on the engine with a pressure cleaner and also a .17 brass rifle bore brush to scrub between fins. All filters and fluids are replaced regularly. The oil cooler also seems to be operating correctly. This tractor, being one used in vineyards, has a complex hydraulic system with _12_ remotes. There is a small heat exchanger on the hydraulic return pipe. I have installed a small 'blower' fan such as used on motor cycles behind the hydraulic heat exchanger to increase overall cooling and move heat 'out board'. In summer I clean the engine cylinder fins every day. I have two basic digital temperature sensors, attaching their leads with 14mm bolts in the existing attachment holes in the sides of the cylinders, and have measured each cylinder's temperature under load relative to No. 3 cylinder and also compared the readings to the existing simple analog gauge on the instrument panel that measures temperature in No. 4 cylinder. Under load on a moderately hot summer day - 28C/82F - cutting long grass with a 5 five foot diameter slasher/bush hog I recorded temperatures up to a stable 75C on No. 3. [No. 4 would have been hotter.] [As soon as load is reduced the engine temperatures drop quickly which suggests the engine cooling system is doing its job.] There is measurable temperature difference between each of the four cylinders with the No 2 cylinder being coolest and the No 4 [immediately in front of the cab] being hottest. [The factory temperature sensor for the instrument panel gauge is in the No 4 cylinder.]

My question is: what is the maximum safe cylinder temperature _as measured digitally and as installed on the sides of the cylinders _before I must gear down or cease working under load? I can't find any data specifying safe cylinder head temperature and I am not confident the original gauge on the instrumental panel is accurate? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Jim

via Ballarat, Australia


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

If I were you, I'd install a mechanical pyrometer like an Isspro to monitor exhaust temperature, not cylinder temperature because the exhaust temps will increase much more quickly than the cylinder temps and it's the exhaust temperature you need to be concerned about. With a diesel under load, you don't want to go past around 1300 degrees (f) for an extended time. if the exhaust temp climbs toward that figure, you need to gear down and increase the rpm or reduce the load.

You could destroy the engine from too much localized heat by lugging it and your cylinder temp would not climb that quickly.

Have a good friend with a Deutz air cooled tractor and he uses the pyrometer to ascertain the optimum operating range via exhaust gas temperature, not the cylinder temperature.

Most remotes around here are 6 and most units only have 3.

Deutz engines aren't all that common here.


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## NTSOG (Dec 13, 2021)

Thankyou for your quick reply and advice. I've done some research after reading your post and it makes great sense and will be easy to do. The _Isspro_ brand is available here together with other brands. I gather from my reading today that it's a good idea to mount the pyrometer just 'downstream' from the hottest cylinder - in the case of my engine, No. 4.

Jim


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

You mount the pyrometer stinger (thermocpuple) in the exhaust manifold as close to the exiting exhaust stream as possible. Usually, there will be a threaded 'bung' or fitting already tapped into the exhaust manifold for mounting it and they are strictly mechanical, no outside electricity needed unless you want to illuminate the meter face. I knew Isspro is sold worldwide, actually it's what I have on my class 8 diesel truck. I pay little attention the my temperature gauge, I drive (operate) the engine using the pyrometer to gauge how hard the motor is working.


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## BinVa (Sep 21, 2020)

The install manual I have for that motor shows 650*C for max. exhaust temp. and 230*C on #1cyl. Head temp., 140*C oil in pan temp. B.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Then use that. Remember. we don't use the metric system of measurement here. We use imperial measurement.


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## NTSOG (Dec 13, 2021)

Thankyou both for your further advice and information. 

BinVa: the mechanics at the local AGCO/Fendt dealership could not give me any data about the F4L 913 engine in my tractor, nor have I received any reply to an enquiry I made to AGCO/Fendt in Germany so your data is invaluable. 

SidecarFlip: as for metric versus imperial measurement I'm of an age that I grew up using imperial measurement, but then had to change to metric in the 1960s. I also lived in the USA [Midwest] for a number of years so happily operate - with occasional confusion - using either system of measurement. The ISSPRO pyrometers advertised here are shown with a Celsius scale. I'll be ordering one today.

Thankyou again,

Jim


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

This morning I looked at a new Fendt Vario up north a little ways. What a nice unit. Spacious cab, huge loader and the bells and whistles included and it was CVT with a Cat 3 3 point on the front and another on the back. Top road speed was just north of 32 mph.

Only issue was the price. It was just north of $226,000 USD. A little rich for my blood. Nice to own with no payment book included. I need to start playing the Powwerball Lottery.


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## NTSOG (Dec 13, 2021)

When I was considering buying my 280P Fendt I went to the local dealership and had a chat about Fendt tractors in general. I had my little Massey Ferguson 35 for years but knew nothing about Fendt. The dealer told me that Fendt is the 'Rolls Royce' of tractors - and the prices charged for them and original Fendt parts are definitely at a Rolls Royce level too! Mine is great to use as it is fairly narrow and has a small turning circle. It also has a front PTO and three point lift arms up front as well which makes it great when moving large round bales amongst other jobs.

Jim.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

I don't consider them the Rolls Royce of tractors but they are nice and way beyond my financial budget. When I'm running round bales I sequester them at one end of the hayfield (I do 5 different fields) and I have a rear mount hay spear I put on the 3 point and I put a double spear on the quick attach on the front end loader and move 3 at a time, then when I load my customers semi trailers, I use the double front spear to set the bales on the trailer with one on the back as a counter weight. I do do single rounds with nothing on the back. Don't have my tires loaded but I run cast centers on my M9000 Kubota's. I won't fill my tires anyway. Crushes the hay plants. I want as light a footprint as possible. The M9's are perfect hay tractors for me and both are pre 4 units so no emissions junk and no computers to deal with. Strictly mechanical. Other than the new Kubota (Kneverland) net-twine round bailer I just bought, everything is paid for, If I was doing heavy tillage, the Vario would be a nice unit. I'm not. If I need a field fitted, I call my buddy down the road and have him do it with one of his big JD tracked machines and fitting tools. No point in me having to deal with that or the expense involved. Running hay with 90 horse tractors never puts any strain on them anyway. They are both front wheel assist but I rarely, if ever use it. No need to.

Couple interesting video's on You Tube showing the building of the Fendt Vario. Worth watching.

I used to have cattle but sold all the stock early last year. All that is here now are some barn cats and our house dog...and my wife...lol


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## NTSOG (Dec 13, 2021)

SidecarFlip: "I want as light a footprint as possible." 

Definitely Soil compaction is a serious issue. Neither of my tractors have water in the tyres. We live in a volcanic area - actually at the foot of an extinct volcano. The soil is rocky with a basalt reef running through one of our paddocks and lots of quartz scattered in the soil as well. A local veterinary surgeon described the local soil to me as 'Ordovician sludge'! [It's actually a gold-mining area; there were numerous deep mines all around in the 1870s where we now live.] The soil dries hard and cracks open in our hot summers and becomes easily sodden and pugs in winter, especially where our cattle have been. It needs a lot of lime and super. [We have a small herd of Angus cows and supplement our retirement pensions by selling our calves at the local sale yard. At the moment sale prices for Angus 'weaner' steers just off their mothers at about 8 months are very high due to farmers up north restocking after years of drought. Heifers are also making good money too.] I do a lot of work opening up the soil to improve drainage and let the air in.

I swear I work harder now I'm retired from professional work. At least I'm not bored.

Jim


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

I'm on sandy loam or black dirt as t's called here. Very fertile.


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## NTSOG (Dec 13, 2021)

G'day,

I've ordered an ISSPRO pyrometer to install on my Fendt-Deutz. As suggested by SidecarFlip there is a boss protruding from the underside of the manifold at No. 4 cylinder, but accessing it to install the sensor would require a great deal of disassembly, especially of the very complex hydraulic system, but that's beyond my skill level so I will have to install it on a more accessible part of the manifold, still adjacent to No 4 cylinder and make some allowance for the fact that readings will have to taken from 3+inches out from the cylinder. I presume there will a small temperature drop.

Hopefully the attached photos showing the whole manifold and also the 'boss' on the underside adjacent No. 4 cylinder are clear.

Jim


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

In reality, there won't be much temp drop if any. Most times the pyrometer stinger (probe) will be mounted in the exhaust piping somewhere past the turbo (if it has one) or in a convenient spot so using that hard to access port isn't life or death. What is is monitoring the gage temp and never let it climb above around 1300 degrees (f) without dropping a gear or reducing engine speed. Won't take long for you do ascertain how exhaust temp correlates with power output versus loading.. Nice motor btw. I've always been impressed with air cooled diesels.


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## NTSOG (Dec 13, 2021)

Thanks for your advice SidecarFlip.

Jim


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## NTSOG (Dec 13, 2021)

G'day,

The pyrometer is installed on the outside 'face' of the manifold just downstream from cylinder #4 - not as close as I would like, but as close as I could install it. I have done moderate work with the tractor on two consecutive hot days: 34C/93F and 36C/97F. Running the tractor mid-afternoon in the heat the pyrometer indicated a steady maximum temperature of about 275C under load [Middle gear range, second gear, RPM 1100+/-] doing some light ploughing with a spring-tyne cultivator on a very rough paddock and, next day, slashing long grass with a 5 foot bush hog/slasher [Low range, 2nd. gear, PTO 500-540 RPM]. Given BinVa's advice that the maximum EGT specified by Deutz is 650C, there's a lot of 'room' to operate the machine harder if needed. Cylinder temperatures during the work were: No. 1 - 74C and No. 3 - 90C approximately which temperatures are well below the Deutz maximum of 230C for No.1 quoted by BinVa. The factory analog gauge [reading cylinder No. 4] was in the green up about 45-50% of the range, so perhaps the gauge is still accurate. I was especially intrigued by how quickly [as SidecarFlip mentioned] the temperature reading changes on the pyrometer compared to the other two gauges.

The whole exercise has been most helpful and reassuring.

I'm very grateful for the advice given me,

Jim


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## BinVa (Sep 21, 2020)

If you keep the oil cooler and fins clean it you'll have no problems. These engines are run at extremely high ambient temperatures as stationary engines on generators and pumps, with out failures. As noted..keep an eye on EGT during extended heavy pulls. But you have one of the best air/oil cooled engines. The main thing is...Keep it Clean from air cleaner to cooler. B.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Best air cooled diesel ever made, next to the Hatch single cylinder engines. Fendt is a great tractor in it's own right. I'd have one in a minute if they actually had a good sales and service network here where I live and farm. I salivate over a Fendt Vario all the time. Problem is, the dealer and repair network here and the cost. Not that flush.


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## BinVa (Sep 21, 2020)

I have a custom harvester near me running 2 Fendt's up and down the hilly roads pulling double large cap silage wagons @ 40mph... I could only 'dream'!!! B.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Thats me, dreaming. Vario's have a high road speed. Nice units, nice price too. 250K will put you in the drivers eat tomorrow.


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## NTSOG (Dec 13, 2021)

SidecarFlip: _"Fendt is a great tractor in it's own right. I'd have one in a minute if they actually had a good sales and service network here where I live and farm."_

Where I live in Victoria [Australia] the current Fendt dealership is not well regarded by some local farmers and contractors. It is a large 'Corporation' and very slick in its promotions, salesmen and fancy offices. The Fendt line was previously held by another older, local company that was, to me, much more down-to-earth and 'farmer friendly'. If I need spare parts I still go to this older company rather than the actual Fendt dealership.

I spent 90 minutes yesterday slashing very thick long grass for a neighbour in 32C/91F with high humidity. [Like the summer-time weather I experienced when studying at IU, in Bloomington, Indiana decades ago.] EGT stayed at about a steady 285-290C throughout and cylinder temperatures were a little higher than the previous day, but well inside limits. The engine ran like a swiss watch. 

Thankyou again for you advice and support,

Jim


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Far as I'm concerned, you can never have enough gauges to monitor engine and driveline conditions and not idiot lights which in reality are for idiots anyway.


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## Viktor1234 (Dec 15, 2021)

I also know that Deutz air cooled are one of the most economical engines on fuel. How many hours is your engine?


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Mine are water cooled inline 4 cylinder turbo charged diesels. One has over 6000 hours on it with no issues.


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

NTSOG said:


> I spent 90 minutes yesterday slashing very thick long grass for a neighbour in 32C/91F with high humidity. [Like the summer-time weather I experienced when studying at IU, in Bloomington, Indiana decades ago.] EGT stayed at about a steady 285-290C throughout and cylinder temperatures were a little higher than the previous day, but well inside limits. The engine ran like a swiss watch.
> 
> Thankyou again for you advice and support,
> 
> Jim



Very small world we live in, I current live about 25 minutes from the IU Bloomington, Indiana campus and it gets well above the 91 degree mark with humidity numbers to match the temp.....LOL


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## NTSOG (Dec 13, 2021)

G'day *unsquidly*,

I enjoyed my time at IU Bloomington in the late 1970s, but have never lost so much sweat simply sitting still while studying due to the overall temperature combined with the extreme humidity! [My wife - who is from Northern Wisconsin - and I lived in cheap student housing without any air conditioning.] In southern Australia growing up close to the southern ocean I experienced summer temperatures as high as 45C/113F, but without the humidity. Summer at IU was a shock. Our recent weather has been unusually wet and humid due a La Nina weather effect that has caused wet, warm air to flow across the continent from NW to SE. Consequently paddocks that would normally be burned brown by the drying summer sun are still green as we have had many heavy, and sometimes destructive, rain- and thunderstorms.

Yes it is a 'small world'!

Jim


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## NTSOG (Dec 13, 2021)

G'day,

With regard to engine hours on my Fendt Farmer 280P the meter is showing 12,890. I cannot be absolutely sure that this is correct, but the tractor was built around 1996. If it is a correct reading, then the continuing 'tightness' of the F4L 913 engine is a tribute to the design and manufacture of this type of air-cooled engine which starts and runs smoothly without hesitation at the first turn of the key. There is a single squirt of smoke at the start and the engine runs smoothly summer and winter. It uses almost no engine oil, even when worked hard. 

The extra temperature gauges give me much more confidence when using it for heavy work. SidecarFlip's comment makes good sense: _"Far as I'm concerned, you can never have enough gauges to monitor engine and driveline conditions and not idiot lights which in reality are for idiots anyway."_

Jim


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