# Does diesel go bad like gasoline?



## bontai Joe

Does diesel go bad like gasoline? I know gas goes bad if stored a long time, but does diesel go bad too? How about kerosene? I've stored kerosene from one winter to the next that gets used in a heater with no problems. Is that normal, or am I just lucky?


----------



## psrumors

Diesel will store for quite a while. You have to worry about gel, water and algae but all is treatable.

Kerosene, I have no idea except I too have stored it several season with no adverse effects.


----------



## Chipmaker

I think diesel wirll go bad quicker than gas at least in the south. All kinds of microscopic life like algae et grows readily in it but not in gasoline. I read about the tate of Montana IIRC finding an abandoned 30'000 gala diesel fuel tank that was at an old abandoned mine and the diesel in it wa probably at least 20+ years old. Tests showed it was unuseable and it wold have cost a fortune to have it pumped out and disposed of. They useed that stabilizer/ rejuvinator called PRI-D and reclaimed it and used it all in their equipment without a BIT OF TROUBLE. i KNOW THE HOSPITALS AND SOME MAJOR BUSINESS AROUND HERE HAVE (sorry hit cap lock) diesel gen sets and have large storage tanks and use the PRI-D as well. I used top use it when I stored diesel fuel but now only use the PRI-G for the gas I store. I have used PRI-G for many years and its hands above Stabil. Ivan was proof of that. The one gen set had gas in it from back when it was used last Hurricane Opal in 1995 when I topped it off with treated gas before storing it. Yes, I run it every now and then but it still was predominately old gas treated with PRI-G, and topped off with old gas treated with the same stuff and it worked perfectly.


----------



## bontai Joe

Algae living in diesel? I never knew that was possible. So I learned something by asking a question.... NEAT!


----------



## psrumors

I think what happens is the algae grows on the tank where there is space above the diesel, that is why it is important to keep storage cans full.


----------



## Live Oak

> _Originally posted by bontai Joe _
> *Does diesel go bad like gasoline? I know gas goes bad if stored a long time, but does diesel go bad too? How about kerosene? I've stored kerosene from one winter to the next that gets used in a heater with no problems. Is that normal, or am I just lucky? *


Diesel can store longer than gasoline but it can go bad if not properly treated. Diesel stored for long periods of time can absorb water these droplets of water can harbor the formation of algae and microbial organisms which can actually feed on the fuel itself. This causes deterioration of the fuel quality and it will not run well in a diesel engine and can cause problems with the fuel filters. 

I add a microbiocidal additive to the fuel I store in my tank as well as a good quality fuel additive to help maintain the centane rating and lubrication qualities of the fuel.

Kerosene can get infested with microbes and algae as well. Military aviation fuel is treated with PRIST for this very reason. 

When my friend Jim sold me his diesel tank; he emptied the fuel out of it into his Dresser TD8E bull dozer. The fuel had been stored in the tank untreated for over 2 years. His bull dozer engine would barely run (could only develop half the normal rpm and had no power) he changed the filters and that made no difference and he then drained the fuel and replaced with fresh diesel and it ran great. 

You can store diesel for long periods but it needs to be properly treated and stored in a temperature stable low humidity environment.


----------



## psrumors

And now you know the rest of the story


----------



## balmoralboy

I was in the oil recycling business for awhile, (sort of like admitting you used to run a whorehouse, isn't it?) and learned that the diesel doesn't go bad in the same way as gasoline. 

Petroleum products are composed of mixtures of different hydrocarbons. The short hydrocarbons evaporate easily, or like propane and butane are gases at room temperature. The range runs from natural gas up to bunker C and asphalt on the long end. On a molecular level the hydrocarbon molecules in a given oil are like strands of spaghetti in a bowl. And the shorter they are the easier they evaporate. 

Gasoline is lighter than diesel, has more light ends, and loses the lighter components quickly. Unfortunately, it is the light ends which start the combustion process and so gasoline lacking the light ends becomes noticeably harder to burn.

When Diesel is refined, the light ends are mostly removed because the refinery is doing its best to make gasoline which is worth more, and the light ends in diesel are the heavy ends in gasoline.

So, it is pretty hard to take light ends out of diesel. One job we did was to recover diesel from storage tanks that were filled about 50 years earlier. The profile on it was similar to brand new diesel.

The real issue is storage in tanks where moisture can collect. If you collect water in it it will 'rot' and the bacteria will clump and clog your filters and injectors. That's the real problem!


----------



## Live Oak

I'm going to move this over to Petroleum, Oils, & Lubricants so it will get the best visibility. :thumbsup:


----------



## Wingnut

*It is a Fungus that grows in Diesel*

The Fungus is easily desolves with a product called "Power Service". I was studing to a Petroleum Engineer at one time (that why I have a 245 hour for my B.S. with a whole lot of B.S.). 

Did you know that "Gum-out" and "STP Gas Treatment" is just non-dyed Automatic Transmission Fluid.

When your car is running rough, the next time you fill it up add a quart of Automatic Transmission Fuild to it is doesn't what type.


----------



## Carm

Since I mostly burn waste jet fuel in the diesel equipment, there is never any issue with bad fuel. I suspect that if bugs can grow in jet fuel, it can grow in any kerosene or diesel product. We have some old #2 in a tank. we generally use it to start fires, but it seems to light up without any problem, I kno this stuff is 10+years old.


----------



## Chipmaker

> _Originally posted by Carm _
> *Since I mostly burn waste jet fuel in the diesel equipment, there is never any issue with bad fuel. I suspect that if bugs can grow in jet fuel, it can grow in any kerosene or diesel product. We have some old #2 in a tank. we generally use it to start fires, but it seems to light up without any problem, I kno this stuff is 10+years old. *


What spec is the jet fuel you beurn, is it equivalent to JP-8 mil spec fuel? At one time I had a VW rabbit, and used to burn JP4 i it, and melted my pistons and burned the valves..........but when it was running it was one running little car. I noticed a wold of difference in burning JP4 over regular diesel fuel......

We had a few folks use JP4 in portable kerosene heaters as well. I know of three that lost their house or damaged it pretty bad, as JP4 is a lot more flamable than Kerosene is. It used to make those heaters burn with a bluish white flame instead of the typical yellow orange kerosene flame. JP8 s a lot safer to use though. We used to have to add 1 quart of regular motor oil to each 10 or so gal of JP4 for lube as it did not lube injection pumps all too well either. Used to get all the jet fuel we could carry off out of drained fuel cells and bladders.


----------



## Carm

I believe JP-4 was a gas/jet mixture. I think it is now basically obsolete with JP-8 being the spec now. But that is for the military guys. We use Jet-A which is bacically treaterd and clean kerosene, I think that is what JP-8 is. I mix some old (not used) motor oil in with it, since Jet-A has no real lubricity and could burn up a pump. Happened to a friend who did not mix it with oil. He burned it in an old Jetta, kept burning up the injection pumps. He finally caught on. It burns pretty clean, although since it is not a science for me, I sometimes mix it a little rich on the oil, which may create a little more smoke. I still run a tank of diesel through once in a while. As for the oil heater, It still gets topped off with #2, the jet just offsets the cost a little, besides we would have to pay to have it hauled away, then the recovery company sells it to the recycler!


----------



## Live Oak

Here is some good info. on JP-8 and JP-4. 


JP-8 Jet Fuel: An Overview


----------



## Chipmaker

I recall pumping JET A into a F-16 that had to make a emergency landing at a civilian airstrip. Was not sure waht that desigation was but seeing it in type jogged my mind.

I know one thing yet again about JP4. You do not use it to burn brush. I learned two times the hard way. One time I poured a bucket full in the drainage ditch along the road to burn out the weeds etc, there was just a trickle of water in it, nothing much. I poured the JP4 in and then stuck a match and I had about 300 yards of drainage ditch on fire at one time.........

Another timne I had one huge pile of logsl brush etc from a lot of triming and clearing I did, that I had built up over a matter of abaout a year or so. It was one huge pile all stacked nice and neat and in a typical T Pee fashion, alaong with built in old tires I had planed on filling with diesel fuel etc to get the brush pile going. I brought home 2 five gal buckets of JP4. It was hot as heck out. I got up on that pile and commenced to filling up tires and splashing thats tuff all around the pile, used the first 5 gal up and aabnout half the second container full. Got a stick and wrapped a wad of cloth around it, which I also soaked in JP4. (You think I was gonna get close to that pile of brush, nope, I'm a smart guy, I was gonna light that rag on the stick and toss it at the pile). I reached for my lighter, could not find it, evidently it fell out of my shirt pocket when I was dumping the JP all over the brush pile. So I tell my youngin to get a lighter from mom. I am out there waiting and waiting, and finally get fed up so I wallk on into the ouse and there the youngin is eating a sandwhich...........as he was hungry, (he was about 4 at the time) so mom made him a sandwhich and I grabbed a cigarette lighter, went out and struck the lighter to light the stick / rag and it was like an atomic bomb went off. Vapors built up in the hollow I had the brush pile in and all it took was striking the lighter. Never got to light the rag and toss it. I had my back to the pile luckily, and the blast actually knocked me down. Singed some hair but thats all. I turned around and it looked just like the picture of an atomic bomb going off, huge beautiful mushroom cloud, brilliant bright red yellow orange flame going upwards along with lots of burning limbs etc. That was too close for comfort even for a guy like me that used to like to do crazy things.........Just fortunate the youngin was hungry and was still indoors.........

We were told in Tech school that one cup full of jet fuel was equal to a stick of dynamite in the right conditions. I think I was in the right conditions. Or would that be wrong conditions.


----------



## Live Oak

Chip, remind me to supervise you while getting the charcoal in the BBQ lit and burning.   :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Good story!


----------



## Carm

Chief, thats a prety good link. 
Chip, you can start my grill or burn pile anytime! A nice mushroom cloud can be a good thing:smoking:


----------



## Live Oak

Just to add on some good to know information; I thought I would post this Chevron Diesel Fuel Technical Review. It has a LOT of good and interesting information on diesel fuels as well as covers a wide range of diesel related issues and subjects.


----------



## JDFANATIC

Chief,

Nice resource. Should be called "Everything you were afraid to ask about Diesel Fuel."

Cheers

JDFANATIC


----------



## Live Oak

I keep about 200 gallons of "Off Road Ag Diesel" that I treat with Power Service diesel fuel treatment and Power Service Bio Kleen Diesel Fuel Biocide.

Bio Kleen Diesel Fuel Biocide 

Diesel Kleen +Cetane Boost 

The biggest hazard to your diesel fuel is moisture (read condensation) that can build up in your storage tank. These pockets of water are where microbes and algae can develop and wreak havoc with your fuel. The Biocide hopefully prevents this.


----------



## Live Oak

> _Originally posted by JDFANATIC _
> *Chief,
> 
> Nice resource. Should be called "Everything you were afraid to ask about Diesel Fuel."
> 
> Cheers
> 
> JDFANATIC *


Thanks JDFANATIC:thumbsup: Great to see you joining in lately. Hope you won't be a stranger round these parts.


----------

