# 5000 Gas Fuel Pump Leaking



## DavidClapp (Aug 28, 2015)

Hello Friends. New member here.
I bought a Ford 5000 gas burner a couple of weeks ago. After using it to bush hog about an hour and a half, it quit as if it were out of fuel. Checking the fuel flow by removing the lines proved that the fuel pump had stopped pumping. I went to the local Ford N/H dealer and picked up a new one for about $50. Put the new pump on (which is a real pain due to the location in front of the engine and behind the radiator), bush hogged about 30 minutes and noticed the new pump leaking. Appeared to be either from the diaphgram or porosity in the casting. Took it off and tightened the diaphram screws and reinstalled it. Not any better. Took it back to the dealer and traded it for another with the same results except it leaked immediatly. Returned it for cash back,and ordered another from an E-Bay supplier. It came today and I had the same results with this one. 
Three new pumps that all leaked.
Is this something that is common with these fuel pumps?
The first two from the dealer were labeled "Made in India" on the outside of the box. When I asked the dealer I was told that that was a Ford replacement part. The one from E-Bay has no country of origin marking.
I am at my wits end.
Any help would be much appreciated.


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

Howdy David,

Thanks for posting on the Ford/New Holland tractor forum. 

I suspect that your fuel pump is pressuring up due to an obstruction in the fuel line. See item #29 on the attached parts diagram. It appears that your fuel pump pushes gas through this filter. If this filter is plugged, it requires excessive pressure from your pump. Replace it. Also check for a fuel screen in the top of the sediment bowl (many of the old Fords have a screen there). 

Also check for a plugged fuel screen in the inlet elbow of the carburetor (many of the old Fords have a screen there).

There should also be a fuel screen in the pump itself....I think in the suction side. Working in tight quarters, you may have missed it??


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## DavidClapp (Aug 28, 2015)

Thank you for your reply. That makes good sense. I will check for a restriction on the pressure side and report back. I really appreciate your help.


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## DavidClapp (Aug 28, 2015)

I have checked all places for possible restrictions. The fuel filter in the sediment bowl is clean. I even ran the tractor without the filter on with no change in results.
I ran the tractor with the fuel shut off closed and the pump does not leak.
I let the carb fill and took the carb inlet line off then started the tractor and let it pump free flow into a gas can whith the engine running and the pump did not leak.
The only other thing that comes to mind is that the float level may not be right, keeping the needle & seat closed more than it should be and causing pressure to back build? The engine has an intermident rough idle but seems to clear up with increased throttle.
I have had the carb apart and dipped it in my carb bucket, but tried carefully not to change float setting when reassembling. However it could have been tweaked while pulling the bowl off.
I can not find a reference for the float setting online. It is a Holley carb stamped R-3658-A.
Can anyone help me with the float level specifications?
Any other ideas?


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## TominDallas (Aug 4, 2015)

David, no fuel pump should leak, ever. A restriction or clogged filter downstream from the pump will never cause this. How about when the float bowl is full and the needle is closed? The line downstream will have a normal operating pressure of about 2-6 PSI and every joint between the pump outlet and the float valve will see that pressure during running conditions. What's causing the string of failures? Is the pump leaking internally or some pressurized connection or fitting in the line? 2-6 PSI is such a miniscule amount of pressure. How about getting everything wiped down clean while you watch with a good light and have someone start the machine?


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## DavidClapp (Aug 28, 2015)

Thanks for your reply Tom.
I just came in from doing just as you have suggested. It appears that the leak is spraying from the diaphragm were the top and bottom halves bolt together. Also could see fuel blowing from a weep hole in the casting of the pump. This weep hole is for the relief of pressure when the diapragm travels downward.It may have not been actually leaking there, but possibly blowing the fuel that was draping the pump from the diapragm leak.


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## TominDallas (Aug 4, 2015)

David I've had several failures over the years of diaphragm fuel pumps. There's a leak internally and it's usually a diaphragm ruptured and that hole is always where ya see the fuel squirt from. I believe that's a breather hole, but whether intentionally or just by coincidence it vents the leaking fuel and keeps it from getting inside the engine crankcase, since a lot of them are mounted to the side of the engine block and it's the only other path the fuel could take.


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## DavidClapp (Aug 28, 2015)

So could my rash of three leaking new fuel pumps be because they are not a fast selling item and possibly been sitting on a shelf somewhere causing the diaphragms to deteriorate?


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## TominDallas (Aug 4, 2015)

When I read your first post this morning I asked myself why the chain of failures just like you did. Neoprene isn't like natural rubber. It's probably on a shelf in an air conditioned building and never is exposed to any sunlight. I guess there is a possibility of it being a bad batch.
I had a 79 Goldwing I purchased in 2000. Several years and 20,000 miles later, the pump did just as we describe. Very small hole on top, squirting fuel directly onto the header pipe and spark plug. That could have been a disaster. I chose not to replace it with a factory pump but used a GM OEM electric pump which matched the specs. I was afraid of buying a diaphragm pump which had been sitting on the shelf twenty years.


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

I wonder if ethanol gas is attacking the diaphragms? David, you might open the pump up and see what is wrong with the diaphragm.


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## TominDallas (Aug 4, 2015)

Throughout this thread I haven't thought of that. Sixbales is absolutely correct. I have no idea how ethanol affects neoprene. I'd say that could be the answer.


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## DavidClapp (Aug 28, 2015)

I don't think that is the case, as these pumps leak right away on initial fire up. I have looked the diapragms over. There are no obvious deformitys or visual spots that show were they are leaking.
I took my original completely apart. It is held by a snap ring on the engine end of the shaft with a cup and spring. On the top is another spring in the other direction under the diapragm. It's held together by a slot in the shaft with a pin through it. 
There was nothing visually wrong with the diaphragm in it either.
There is a one way valve (think reed valve) in the upper part of the pump that lets the fuel go out through the discharge on pump actuation,then closes upon the shaft travelling downward.
I havent been able to put it back together by hand due to the two opposing spring forces.


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

David,

Have you tried silicone sealant on the sealing faces of the diaphragm? Maybe the flanges on the pump are not true. Let it cure before putting it back in service.


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## DavidClapp (Aug 28, 2015)

That did run through my mind, but haven't tried it yet. I was concerned that if I dobbed it the return to the supplier might be affected. I sent the last one back today. Should have another one to try toward the middle of next week.


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## TominDallas (Aug 4, 2015)

I'm looking forward to your receiving and trying the new one. This is a mystery.


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## oldtom (Oct 23, 2010)

sixbales said:


> David,
> 
> Have you tried silicone sealant on the sealing faces of the diaphragm? Maybe the flanges on the pump are not true. Let it cure before putting it back in service.


Don't us silicone any where near the fuel system or your be replacing more than the fuel pump pump should stop pumping when carburetor is full and at fuel delivery pressure try and tee in a gauge a see whot you are getting(put a sample of silicone on on stik and submerge in a can of gas,and watch it grow )


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## DavidClapp (Aug 28, 2015)

oldtom there is not a regulator on the system. The pump is mechanical so there is no way for it to stop pumping as long as the engine is running. The guage T'eed in is a good idea.
I'm still waiting for the replacement pump to be delivered from "Reliable Aftermarket Parts".
If the next pump leaks I have a small electric fuel pump that I will try. 
It's very sad that I cannot get a quality part that is not made in India or China.


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## country Gent (Jul 22, 2010)

Are you sure that is where the fuel is leaking from and not a minute crack in one of the elbows on the pump. I am presuming you have to use your old fittings. Fuel takes crazy routs with air blowing. Very, very odd to have so many pumps be bad. Most times when a fuel pump diaphragm leaks, the fuel winds up in the crankcase also. Smell your engine oil!!


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## DavidClapp (Aug 28, 2015)

Thanks for replying country Gent.
No the pumps come with new fittings. On the last two pumps I ran the tractor with the generator off and fan belt disconnected so that I could get a good look at the leak. It is definatly coming from the diaphragm between the upper and lower parts.
I've been studying the fuel tank outlet and the position of the inlet on the carb are almost paralell, and I'm thinking that it looks like gravity feed is possible. I'll try to get pictures tomorrow. Not sure why Ford would have used a pump in this application if gravity feed were possible. ?


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## oldtom (Oct 23, 2010)

DavidClapp said:


> oldtom there is not a regulator on the system. The pump is mechanical so there is no way for it to stop pumping as long as the engine is running. The guage T'eed in is a good idea.
> I'm still waiting for the replacement pump to be delivered from "Reliable Aftermarket Parts".
> If the next pump leaks I have a small electric fuel pump that I will try.
> It's very sad that I cannot get a quality part that is not made in India or China.


the two check valves one inlet& outlet inside the pump control fuel flow in conjunction with the float valve in the carburetor


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## DavidClapp (Aug 28, 2015)

Okay. I put the 4th new pump on today. I decided to try to video the results and put them on here.I hope this video works.
This is with the generator and fan belt removed. The spray that you see is all fuel pump and not blown by air by the fan. The spray is coming from right around the diaphragm bolt area that you can see in the video.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwspjmMKXcw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwspjmMKXcw[/ame]


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## DavidClapp (Aug 28, 2015)

What is the possibility of the float setting being off, or maybe I bent the float tang when I put the carb back together after dipping, causing backpressure?


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## film495 (Nov 1, 2013)

I once found a rebuild kit for a small little fuel pump on an old outboard motor. I could have just bought a new pump, but I kind of wanted to take it apart. It was pretty meticulous with little springs and multiple plastic parts that had to go just the right way, pointing the right direction, just right. It was kind of a hassle, but it ended up working fine and still works some 10 years later. I think the kit just had a few pieces, a few plastic casing parts, diaphram, little springs, etc. Anyway, I don't know what fuel pump that is, or what you have going wrong, but somewhere you should be able to find a diagram of how the pump parts are put together, and make sure it is doing what it is supposed to. It appears it isn't put together correctly. Possibly an assembly error at the factory, and the parts are still on the shelf, possible. That looks like a mechanical pump, there's several pieces that have to be oriented the correct way, and not inverted, if it works similar to the one I took apart at all. Any of those tiny pieces being installed wrong at all, will make it fail and likely do what you're seeing here. So, my take is find another supplier brand of pump, or go back to your original fuel pump and see if you can get a repair kit with new seals and gaskets etc.


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## DavidClapp (Aug 28, 2015)

OK Guys. Here is what I have done. I took the fuel line from the petcock at the bottom of the tank and ran it straight to the sediment bowl on the inlet of the carb, bypassing the pump completely.
The carb inlet is about two inches higher than the petcock outlet, but almost even with the bottom of the fuel tank. So I'm pretty sure it will gravity feed to empty the tank.
The tractor runs perfectly this way.I bushogged for about 15 minutes to make sure it would work, with no issues. 
It appears that even though I aquired 4 fuel pumps through 2 different sources, they are all produced in India and probably the same batch of inferior parts. Ford does not manufacture these parts for replacement.
Thank you all for your advice and ideas.


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## film495 (Nov 1, 2013)

good work around. I wonder if you can rig another pump at some point, an aftermarket something or other, maybe an electronic one you can put in the fuel line mounted somewhere else.


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## DavidClapp (Aug 28, 2015)

Yes. I have one of the small Facet electric pumps that I could use.
At this point I can't see the need for it as long as the gravity feed works like it is.
I will keep the electric pump handy untill I see if the gravity feed empties the tank completly.
I can't understand why Ford engineers, after nearly 100 years of gravity feed, decided that a fuel pump was necessary.


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