# Jubilee Wiring



## MarkBenjamin

Hoping one of you experts can help me. I stripped all wiring (a real mess)and am rewiring. I"ve downloaded several diagrams from various sources and remain a little confused as to what I"m dealing with. I have a 12V battery so I"m assuming it"s been "converted" from a 6V system. Negative ground I think. I believe it still uses the three wire generator, not an alternator, but I"m not sure that"s possible?? There was no resistor coming from the coil so I"m guessing the coil is 12V. I"m understanding that there"s no "standard plan" but I"m hoping if you see the pictures I"m posting you can give me some tips or guide me to a diagram that will work.

I drove this tractor home a couple years ago when I bought it and actually put it to work a few times before I ran into troubles with engine, etc., and decided to rip into it. Attaching a few pictures of what I was working with. The charging system seemed to be OK so I know the cobbled mess of wiring somehow worked! I have a few diagrams and I'm posting the one I think is closest EXCEPT I don't see the wire from the coil... Never been really great with wiring so starting to get frustrated. Want to make her run after a complete engine rebuild before I put the sheet metal back on!


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## pogobill

Never saw the pictures!?!?


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## MarkBenjamin

*Pictures*

GRRR! Hate when that happens. Trying again!


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## pogobill

I wonder if the generator has been converted to 12v? just because it has a 12v battery doesn't mean it been converted. I guess you'll find out once you get it running again.

Regardless, here are some drawings that may help. Even if you do have a 12 volt system, these 6 volt diagrams should at least help you figure out where you should have been to start with, then you can work at the 12 v conversion.

















Ps. did you polarized your regulator as it states on the box?
Pss. Looks like a fine restoration you have going there!


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## MarkBenjamin

Thanks Pogobill. It's been a two year project so far! The regulator is what came off it. I just cleaned it up. Would a guy have to re-polarize? I'm almost thinking that this was NEVER really converted to 12V. Could be someone just slapped a 12V battery in not knowing what they were doing. I'm posting the before pictures as well. I can't find anything on the coil or VR to indicate voltage. What would your best guess be?? Still 6V? Mostly anyway?!


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## pogobill

I'm thinking it's 6 volt by the look of that generator. Regardless, you have a great looking clean and sharp tractor there. And with the sheet metal all removed, you can really get a good handle on the wiring. If you can get it close to what it should have been, I'm sure you'll get lucky. If you are using the old parts, you shouldn't need to polarize your charging system. Finding the right colour wire is a pain, at least around here, but if you need a red wire with a black strip for instance, use a red wire and put a small wrap of black tape on it, or whatever. As long as you know what it means.
There should also be a small terminal block in the wiring somewhere so that you don't need to be jambing wires together off of the regulator like the pervious owner had. Makes for a cleaner and better wiring job. I bet there used to be one mounted in with those two screw holes just above your regulator!?!


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## MarkBenjamin

Thanks much! I have a terminal block ordered as I agree that I'd rather not have a bunch of wires tied together with wire nuts and duct tape! I think what happened is it had a *partial *conversion. The coil is reversed for 12V and I'll bet the VR is 12V also since it doesn't look original. I have some numbers off the generator that I'll post also. Forgot to bring with me... If the generator is 6V original I may just go back to 6V system. I'm trying to keep it as original as possible anyway!


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## Jaz

Check with Google.com and a tractor spare parts internet site the voltage (6 or 12V) corresponding to the model NUMBERS of the Echlin voltage regulator, the coil as well as the 3 connections relay. No ADDED resistance in the circuit generally means a 6V system.


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## Jaz

Oh, yes a good idea to use a good and strong glass magnifier to decipher what's written on the parts. Dirt, paint, rust, etc. mask info. It is sure that there is some info to be extracted.


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## Jaz

The Echlin or 'Echlin built for NAPA'' voltage regulator could be a 12V. There is a model number engraved on the Back/bottom. You need to unscrew the regulator to look at it.


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## Jaz

NAPA / Echlin mammoth 2009 ignition & electrical systems illustrated parts guide/catalog: 

1000 pages with all corresponding/ equivalent parts no index. Cross-reference obtained around page 860. 
Dig-in !!

http://www.napaechlin.com/upload/NAPAEchlin2/Documents/ECH_NA141_HQr.pdf


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## Jaz

Here's a WILD guess possibility.

Everything converted to 12 volts (battery, ignition switch relay, voltage regulator, coil),
EXCEPT the NON-CONVERTED 6V generator.

System should work ''in practice'', but with REDUCED amps output. This means dim lighting, slow battery charging, etc.

Not sure about other effects, such as durability of 6V generator still there.


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## Jaz

For the high voltage coil, unscrew the red bracket and relook at it. There must be some info or number there that will tell us if 6V or 12V with or without internal resistor.

With 6V battery systems, ALL your spark plug wires should be copper. Rust on ALL important electrical connections should be brushed clean. Need that especially in colder weather.

Ideally with 6 volts systems you should also use lesser resistance COPPER spark plugs (Champion H10C or H12C), or Autolite Copper 4316. If non copper spark plugs are used, Autolite 437 (hotter) is preferable. Autolite 216 is the last resort, may be a too ''cold'' spark for 6 volts, but OK for 12 volts. I think NAPA A-526 is also a substitute, but not sure if copper tip or not. Champion 512 is the NEW number for the old H12C code.


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## Jaz

Coil resistances:

Reading across posts of a 12 volt coil should be about 2.5 to 3 ohms. A 6 volt coil is about 0.6 to 1.7 ohm. They make 2 types of 12 volt coils. One has a built-in resistor.

Finally, read this, my man. It should enable you to identify that ''sucker'...

http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=rrtips&th=26558


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## Sledge740

*Everything converted to 12 volts*



Jaz said:


> Here's a WILD guess possibility.
> 
> Everything converted to 12 volts (battery, ignition switch relay, voltage regulator, coil),
> EXCEPT the 6V generator.
> 
> System should work ''in practice'', but with REDUCED amps output. This means dim lighting, slow battery charging, etc.
> 
> Not sure about other effects, such as durability of 6V generator still there.


I had a "55 ford PU, 6 volt. I had the generator converted to 12 volt using the 6 volt core. I used a 12v. regulator with a voltage reducer on everything (6v. ligts, gauges, horn, heater), but the 6v. starter. The 6v. starter lasted over 5 yrs. being cranked with 12v. The generator should be marked 6 or 12 volt. By the way several people used a 9v. battery on their 6v. systems in tractors and trucks.


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## Jaz

LATE 8N and 53 Jub. FORD TRACTOR SIDE DISTRIBUTOR - 6 VOLT
Another diagram w.generator


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## Jaz

Food for your thoughts:

Diagram for Ferguson TE or TEA20 tractor (1955) with 12V generator system. Just in case the NAA 6V generator was converted to a 12 volts, or simply they salvaged a 12V generator from an old Ford car or Ferguson TE or TEA 20 to replace the 6V. Either the Ferguson ''Lucas'' generator has only 2 terminals (different design), or they are missing 1 wire on diagram. The Ferguson 12V system seems name the parts differently: regulator becomes ''relay'' and starter Solenoid switch becomes ''start switch''. Ferguson may have an England engineering design.


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## Jaz

NAPA (Echlin) part numbers to compare your VR and coil:

6 volts coil IC7 ($48)
6 volts coil IC7SB ($23)

6 volts voltage regulator

NAPA VR950 is the A Circuit 8N-10505C replacement for the late 8N tractors
The VR951 is the B Circuit *** 10505A (or B) (Ford part no) for 1953-1964, 6 volts gas tractors 
VR953 is the B Circuit CONF 10505A for 1958 -1965 12 volts Diesel Tractors

12 volts coil, no resistor needed: IC14SB

(The ''looks'' of the regulator may have changed compared to YOUR part...)
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Voltage-Regulator/_/R-ECHVR950_0366204259
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Voltage-Regulator/_/R-ECHVR951_0366204295

Notice the engraved numbers on the bottom of the enlarged ''back view'' photos
If you can't identify the parts, bring them to NAPA counter and ask them (innocently) to do it for you...


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## Jaz

Starter solenoid switch identification

After looking at photos of your 3 ''new'' electrical parts, I suspect that they are ALL NAPA parts and ALL three 6V. Quite sure that you have a 6V circuit tractor.

NAA with 6V system requires Ford part number NCA11450A for solenoid relay switch.

If NAPA, your solenoid should have numbers engraved on the back of the bracket (side attached to tractor casting).

I have found in the NAPA catalog the following 3 poles, 6V solenoids (enlarge the photo showing the back of the bracket to read the numbers).

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...tarter-Solenoid-Switch/_/R-ECHST53_0306551755
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...tarter-Solenoid-Switch/_/R-ECHST62_0306543419
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...tarter-Solenoid-Switch/_/R-ECHST66_0366143268
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...arter-Solenoid-Switch/_/R-ECHST540_0366141715

Finally, the following two are 3 poles, 12 Volts solenoids:

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...tarter-Solenoid-Switch/_/R-ECHST82_0362744811
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...arter-Solenoid-Switch/_/R-ECHST663_0306543459


Please reply to us once you have identified the parts.


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## MarkBenjamin

Jaz you're a wealth of information! Thanks very much and I'll let you know how I make out! I kinda goofed in painting the coil before I found/wrote down numbers. I checked the VR but will check it again as those seem to be the real questionable items. What troubles me is that it was negative grounded with a 12V battery and no coil resistor. Seems like something would have cooked that way if it was all still 6V except the battery...

Thanks again!


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## MarkBenjamin

P.S. The generator numbers do indicate that it's the 6V, probably original.


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## Jaz

When I bought my 1956 Ford 860, I discovered that the last (or close to the last) ''comical'' (and unknown) owner was making it run as 12V with an alternator. 

He's a ''prankster'' because when he resold tractor to another guy (deceased), he put back the 6V generator in it and said nothing. I bought the tractor from the estate liquidator. Since all the perpetrators were gone, I had to play Sherlock Holmes with the electrical circuit to determine what it was and what was missing (there was no regulator). Wires all messed up. The resistor in circuit was a big hint that it was at some point operated as 12V.

90% of people don't have on hand or simply hate 6V batteries (systems). As I explained, you can throw in a 12V battery and the tractor may ''start and run''. Will it charge the 12V battery ? No. The other question is when one of the 6V parts still in it will die... Old 6V parts have big wiring and should last. The modern ones ?

Old tractors = too many owners who play ''fiddle'' !! (maybe 5-10 owners for yours ?)


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## Jaz

Coil identification is the easiest. Measure resistance between the 2 posts. If 0.6 to 1.7 Ohm, quite sure that it is a 6V.

12V coils not requiring an external resistance exist. Everything internal and generally marked on it. Ohmmeter tells all .


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## MarkBenjamin

I hear you Jaz! When I tore out the old wiring I had a bad feeling about the "fiddle effect"! I'm nervous about hooking up a 12V battery to even TEST the coil! Would you suggest I just try it as a 12V system and see if the generator will produce enough juice? Worst case I have to buy an alternator and finish the conversion, right?


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## Jaz

Not the time to make it run. No rush.

Unhook the battery.

Measure electrical resistance between the 2 posts of the coil. This will get this thing out of the way once and for all so you can then concentrate on identification of the 2 other parts (regulator and 3 posts starter solenoid).


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## MarkBenjamin

Got it! I was thinking I had to have some type of power to the coil to test it. That helps a bunch!


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## Jaz

What is your physical location ?
Will you need to start a 6V tractor at 32 oF ?


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## MarkBenjamin

Northeast Michigan. Yep, gets cold here and I plan some Winter usage. Coil tests at 1.6 Ohms. 6V then, right?... The only thing the VR says on the back (or anywhere else) is "Made in USA" and B22. Seems as if everything is checking out to 6V so I think your guess was right that it's still a 6V system. Not sure how the past owner ran a 12V battery in it without something cooking! If you look at the old wiring pictures there was no resistor to the coil. I saved all the mishmash that was on it and didn't see one and don't have one in the box. Strange... I've went this far so I guess I should just go ahead and buy an alternator and coil, 12V headlights, and call it converted!


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## Jaz

''Read'' the back of the starter switch solenoid bracket to complete the picture.
We cannot rule out that the 6V generator may have been converted to 12V.

VR: 80% sure that it is NAPA VR 951, the correct 6V one. This is a more expensive part, not 20$ Chinese copy.
Visit NAPA West Branch Auto Truck and Trailer with your part. They can identify VR part with older paper catalogs. Maybe more info INSIDE the part.

12V vs 6V. Do not underestimate difficulty to install alternator. Need a special bracket. Also, generally the alternator may hang out on the side of tractor, ready to get rained-on...

6V, good copper plug wiring, good copper spark plugs is still OK. If tractor or battery left outside in winter, probably 50% of the time you'll need to hot wire it with 12V battery on the starter. If tractor has good compression, 6V gives minimal problem. 12V operation is simpler. All a matter of choice.

Of course, if all electric parts are 6V, you can resell them to recoup other costs.


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## Jaz

12 volts system is probably a better option for you if winter usage and tractor stored outside or in unheated garage.

Could need (prefer) to purchase a voltmeter gauge for control panel. Can't remember if 12V starter switch relay solenoid needed or if 6V still OK (only 75% sure). http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ford&th=420964%3E

Good luck.


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## MarkBenjamin

Jaz: Just wanted to let you know that I went ahead and did a full 12v conversion. New alternator, coil, lights, wires, points, etc.,etc.,. Have it running great and I'm actually kinda enjoying snow removal this Winter!


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## MarkBenjamin

In case you hadn't noticed this picture...


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