# Trying to Understand the DK4210SE vs DK6010SE



## jv1298 (Jul 15, 2021)

Hello all,

I'm nearing the process of buying a Kioti tractor (Im actually waiting to see if the customer before me is going to buy the DK4210SE that my dealer has today, if not I'm going to). But, the dealer said if he does buy it - he has a DK6010SE available with all the same options for $5k more. Upon looking into these two models - I'm having a lot of trouble trying to figure out A) How they claim to get 50% more horsepower out of the same displacement diesel engine. and B) If the two units are different at all, why are they listed as the same exact weight (in fact the same exact everything as far as I can tell)? Is the DK4210SE just a detuned DK6010SE? If that's the case, $5,000 seems pretty extreme to "move up" to the same tractor without a limiter.

Any help or information on this would be greatly appreciated!

- Justin


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## nota4re (Jul 3, 2021)

Hey Justin,

I purchased a DK4210SE CH (Cab model) a couple of weeks ago and I am loving it (though only a few hours thus far). Like you, I had a similar choice between the HP models available. I chose the 42 - I guess primarily based on price and because it has the EXACT same specs as the higher HP models in terms of lift capabilities, etc. The Kioti website and brochures are useless in describing the differences in the engines. As I understand from watching some youtube reviews, all use the same basic engine - a cylinder 111.4 cu in 4-stroke diesel. The 42 is the only one in the family NOT to have a turbo. So, I guess the step up from the 42 to the 47 is the addition of a turbo. But then you have the 53 and 60 which I would presume are some combination of boost and tune to provide the additional HP. For me, the 42 is a great step-up from the Kubota L2501 - which pretty much did everything I wanted except for low lifting capacity and the dumb treadle pedal which I detested. I suppose the higher HP (47, 53, & 60) will have some more grunt, but conceptually the 42 (assuming the same basic engine) may have greater longevity?


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Hello Justin, welcome to the forum.

Study your Kioti dealer to determine that he has the facilities and personnel to repair your tractor if and when it has problems. Check him out. Does he have routine maintenance parts in stock? Can he get parts promptly?


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

They also change the stroke and crankshaft of each engine but keep the same cylinder diameter to give the different power options.


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## nota4re (Jul 3, 2021)

FredM said:


> They also change the stroke and crankshaft of each engine but keep the same cylinder diameter to give the different power options.


If you change stroke, and keep cylinder diameter the same, then you will change displacement. Kioti cites the exact same displacement (111.4 cu in) for ALL of these different HP engines.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Just my view but, I'd say they change the fueling parameters to alter the power output. Easily done with an ECM controlled motor.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

nota4re said:


> I wanted except for low lifting capacity and the dumb treadle pedal which I detested.


Lift capacity can be adjusted by changing the hydraulic pressure via shims and no 'Treadle Pedal on my 2 Kubota's. I don't care for a hydrostatic transmission, I much prefer a gear drive with a hydraulic travelling clutch pack (instant reverse and forward with no dry clutch to eventually have to replace. My one Kubota has over 6000 hours on it and I've never fiddled with the wet clutch at and I do a huge amount of loader work. Hydraulic shuttle gives you the best of both worlds, the positive engagement of a dry clutch with basically no wear, no hydrostatic power loss and additional heat produced plus never have to split the unit to replace a worn out clutch because the bell housings are devoid of any clutch. All that is inside the bell housing is a spring loaded damper plate that mitigates the shock load when shuttling from forward to reverse. I've had a couple hydrostat's in the past (I've owned at least 10 Kubota's). The hydraulic shuttle combines the best of both scenario's with the power efficiency of a straight gear drive transmission.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

nota4re said:


> If you change stroke, and keep cylinder diameter the same, then you will change displacement. Kioti cites the exact same displacement (111.4 cu in) for ALL of these different HP engines.


And how right you are.


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## nota4re (Jul 3, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Lift capacity can be adjusted by changing the hydraulic pressure via shims


Lift capacity is a function of the cylinder size, geometry of the FEL and hydraulic pressure. Yes, you can change one and maybe get some modest gain, but it would be prudent to consider the whole system.



SidecarFlip said:


> I don't care for a hydrostatic transmission, I much prefer a gear drive with a hydraulic travelling clutch pack (instant reverse and forward with no dry clutch to eventually have to replace. My one Kubota has over 6000 hours on it and I've never fiddled with the wet clutch at and I do a huge amount of loader work. Hydraulic shuttle gives you the best of both worlds, the positive engagement of a dry clutch with basically no wear, no hydrostatic power loss and additional heat produced plus never have to split the unit to replace a worn out clutch because the bell housings are devoid of any clutch. All that is inside the bell housing is a spring loaded damper plate that mitigates the shock load when shuttling from forward to reverse. I've had a couple hydrostat's in the past (I've owned at least 10 Kubota's). The hydraulic shuttle combines the best of both scenario's with the power efficiency of a straight gear drive transmission.


This has nothing at all to do with the topic of this thread....


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

nota4re said:


> This has nothing at all to do with the topic of this thread....


Sure does. The parasitic power loss from a hydrostat weighs heavily on a lower powered tractor. Gear drive is ALWAYS more efficient with a low powered unit. if the op can get a gear drive (preferably with a wet travelling clutch), it will always be more efficient. A wet clutch (JD calls them 'Power Shift') allows a gear drive tranny to act like a hydrostat without the inherent parasitic power loss all hydro's will have and that especially holds true with a diminutive powered unit and a Hydrostat don't lend itself well to ground engagement either because of the excessive heat it produces while operating.

If all a tractor does is run a mower deck, the a hydrostat is an ideal tranny but for other uses, not really the best option.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

nota4re said:


> Lift capacity is a function of the cylinder size, geometry of the FEL and hydraulic pressure. Yes, you can change one and maybe get some modest gain, but it would be prudent to consider the whole system


Typically, most tractor hydraulic systems are very conservatively rated as in the less than 50% of maximum safe hydraulic operating pressure so shimming the hydraulic pump will give you and increase in lift capacity. It will also shorten the service life of various components so leaving the factory set pressure nay not be the best avenue, but still doable with the correct pressure gauge and tools to access the overall pressure switch and upping the hydraulic pressure via shimming the relief valve pressure.


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## nota4re (Jul 3, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Sure does. The parasitic power loss from a hydrostat weighs heavily on a lower powered tractor. Gear drive is ALWAYS more efficient with a low powered unit. if the op can get...


The op is asking about what the differences are between two different tractor models - both of which are HST's....


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