# Ford 3000 gas trouble starting



## Fordtruckguy5 (Mar 5, 2017)

I purchased the tractor a year ago yesterday. It has never cranked over on the first time but has been progressively getting worse. It now takes 15 - 20 turns of the key for the starter to engage. The starter was replaced a month before I bought the tractor. When the key is turned the starter spins and tries to engage the flywheel but fails to and grinds against the flywheel. 

I've replaced the starter selonoid. I've remove the starter from the tractor and inspected both gears. The starter teeth and flywheel teeth both have minimal wear. This is when I noticed the grinding marks from the starter spinning and not engaging . With the starter off the tractor it functions as it should, the bendix is pulled down thrusting the gear forward and spinning. I don't see any obvious causes for my starting issues so I turn to you all for assistance!

Looking at the mechanics of the bendix starter it seems that the magnetic pull from the motor pulls down the bendix lever thrusting the starter gear forward. When this is pulled all the way down it opens a contact (I'm assuming this contact then allows the motor to spin). So if the gear isn't engaged, it shouldn't spin?

Is it possible that the previous owner installed an incorrect starter for this tractor? I will pull it all apart again and take pictures later. We are getting more snow here so I'll need the loader tomorrow. Thanks in advance for any help!


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

The OEM starter uses a centrifugal bendix, and a seperate starter relay. Usually if the starter is slow to engage, and the bendix is clean and free, the problem is burned contacts in the starter solenoid. Inexpensive repair. However, see below:

Here is a diagram of the OEM starter:










Look at the parts under the top dust cover. When the bendix starts spinning, it moves and triggers a second set of contacts #11176 and the corresponding part below it. If those contacts are worn, the starter will not fully engage either.

Rebuild kits are available, but are best left to people with twelve fingers and three elbows. New starters can be had for $100.


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## Fordtruckguy5 (Mar 5, 2017)

RC Wells said:


> The OEM starter uses a centrifugal bendix, and a seperate starter relay. Usually if the starter is slow to engage, and the bendix is clean and free, the problem is burned contacts in the starter solenoid. Inexpensive repair. However, see below:
> 
> Here is a diagram of the OEM starter:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the IPL. I just replaced the starter relay/selonoid (black box with 2 large lugs and 2 small lugs). That didn't have any effect on it. The second set of contacts you mentioned were slightly burnt up when I had it apart. I'll try cleaning them up and see if it gets any better. What do you know what that contactor is for?

I'm not against buying a new starter, but this one is only a year old and I hate throwing parts at a problem haha.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

The idea behind the second set of contacts is when the engine starts the RPM increase throws the bendix back and that breaks contact so the starter slows. 

Unfortunately "new" is a relative term regarding electrical parts anymore. My experience is that 1 in 5 new electrical components fail right out of the box, because they built in some one or another third world nation by non-union labor being pushed beyond their limit.

Most populated areas have an automotive electric rebuilder. Have them rebuild the old part, it costs a bit more and works afterward.


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

RC Wells said:


> Most populated areas have an automotive electric rebuilder. Have them rebuild the old part, it costs a bit more and works afterward.


that is what I do, new just isn't new anymore


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## Fordtruckguy5 (Mar 5, 2017)

Appreciate all the help! I'll talk to my buddies at the local small engine shop for a reputable repair guy. 

Still curious of what could be failing in the starter to create the problem. I see warnings on new starters not to spin the bendix before installation. If the previous owner didn't follow this warning could it have damaged something? The engineer in me really just wants to tear it apart to see how it works .


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

One problem I encountered.....My local automotive electric rebuilder does poor quality work. I took my Ford 3600 alternator to him and it didn't work when I got it back. So I changed the regulator, and it still didn't work. On the second trip to his shop, it worked. One thing I noticed about his work......very poor quality solder jobs.

Regarding your starter, here's a few things to check: 1) File any burrs off of the ring gear on the flywheel. Access the ring gear thru the starter hole. 2) Make sure that your ground connections are clean to bare metal and tight. Clean battery connections, check battery cables are not ancient/corroded internally, make sure the starter ground connection (where it mates to the engine) is clean to bare metal. 

I noticed my ring gear had burrs on it when I split my tractor several years ago. The starter gear also had some minor damage. I filed the ring gear burrs down, and changed the starter after I got it back together (bought a rebuilt starter from my CNH dealer). The replacement has been a really good starter. You know, it may have been rebuilt in Asia (I have no idea), but it works well.


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2018)

while you're at it, you may as well make sure your generator/alternator is putting out at least 13.6 or more and just an idle question, how old is the battery? When I bought mine a year ago it had junk for a battery and the Lucas generator only output 12.3 volts. I had no chance!


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## Fordtruckguy5 (Mar 5, 2017)

I had thought about filing the burrs off the ring gear to help it engage. I'll give that a shot and check out the rest of the suggestions from everyone. Might take a couple of weeks, the weather has been crap here. Thanks


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2018)

Good luck to you Fordtruckguy5. Yes, weather is not great here either. If you don't mind a few questions that you should be able to answer off the top of your head and I realize they do not directly address your starter engaging the flywheel. However, when I bought my 2000, the seller must have been crossing his fingers behind his back as he demonstrated it's starting to me and when I got it home it was more and more problematic to the point I kept starter fluid in the fender toolbox. A few months later it was absolutely reliable in starting and I put the starter fluid back in my workshop; I dare say as well or better than when new and as the owner's manual said it should: Does your 3000 still have the original style generator (easy to tell as the generators were about 4-5 inches in diameter with a solid case and an alternator is more like 6-7 inches in diameter and has a vented case) or has it been replaced with an alternator? Is the voltage regulator mounted on the firewall still in use? Is the battery of the style, size, and rating of the original specs? How old is it? When cranking do you get a blue spark or yellow/orange spark at the plug? For some reason these 3 cylinder tractors got a big battery upgrade from the previous 4 cylinder models, and boy do they need it. Ford was frugal and did nothing unnecessary to reduce their profit margin. The Lucas made generator and voltage regulator were proven over time to be insufficient to the task of starting these tractors and prone to failures.


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## deerhide (Oct 20, 2016)

50 years ago we had an 8n that was a 'prick' to start. Push the start button, perfect bendix 'throw-in' and then 1/100 of a turn and it threw out. Tractor Supply used/maybe still do sold/sell an 'improved' bendix that solves that problem. Another thing, the tractor engine always stops in the same place when you shut it off. Are there 2 or 3 teeth on the ring gear that are worn? If you stall the engine to shut it off it will likely not stop on worn ring gear teeth(if this is the problem). Or get a crank for it.


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## Fordtruckguy5 (Mar 5, 2017)

Graysonr said:


> Good luck to you Fordtruckguy5. Yes, weather is not great here either. If you don't mind a few questions that you should be able to answer off the top of your head and I realize they do not directly address your starter engaging the flywheel. However, when I bought my 2000, the seller must have been crossing his fingers behind his back as he demonstrated it's starting to me and when I got it home it was more and more problematic to the point I kept starter fluid in the fender toolbox. A few months later it was absolutely reliable in starting and I put the starter fluid back in my workshop; I dare say as well or better than when new and as the owner's manual said it should: Does your 3000 still have the original style generator (easy to tell as the generators were about 4-5 inches in diameter with a solid case and an alternator is more like 6-7 inches in diameter and has a vented case) or has it been replaced with an alternator? Is the voltage regulator mounted on the firewall still in use? Is the battery of the style, size, and rating of the original specs? How old is it? When cranking do you get a blue spark or yellow/orange spark at the plug? For some reason these 3 cylinder tractors got a big battery upgrade from the previous 4 cylinder models, and boy do they need it. Ford was frugal and did nothing unnecessary to reduce their profit margin. The Lucas made generator and voltage regulator were proven over time to be insufficient to the task of starting these tractors and prone to failures.


I still have the Lucas generator made in England. Assuming it's probably been rebuilt at one time. Too clean to be original dirt. The voltage regulator on the firewall looks new. Battery is almost 4 years old. Napa commercial truck/tractor. I always keep a trickle charger on it.

I took the starter back off to clean the contacts under the bendix magnetic lever like RC Wells suggested. Didn't see any improvement from that. However I put it back on with out the dust cover to test how easily it engages when I push that down. Took a lot of tries to get it to engage . And when it did it stuck in and wouldn't spring back. So I'm thinking the burrs on the ring gear could be the issue.

I'm more of a chainsaw guy but I never heard of a tractor engine stopping in the same spot everytime. What causes that?


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2018)

I've never heard the idea that an engine will always stop at the same spot on the flywheel. In fact I knew someone who had a tractor with some bad teeth on the bell housing and only sometimes this would cause a starting problem. Not saying it's true or untrue, just don't know. But, ok you've convinced me the problem is mechanical. Be nice if you could try a different starter. Speaking about the Lucas generator and voltage regulator. The alternator they sell for these tractors charges at 65 amps. (There's a cheaper one that charges at 35 amps) but the lucas generator I believe is rated for 22 amps and does not charge at idle speed I'm told. The "one wire" alternator conversion will put lucas out of your life forever and it's available with the tach drive. So when it comes time to spend money there.....


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## Fordtruckguy5 (Mar 5, 2017)

Graysonr said:


> I've never heard the idea that an engine will always stop at the same spot on the flywheel. In fact I knew someone who had a tractor with some bad teeth on the bell housing and only sometimes this would cause a starting problem. Not saying it's true or untrue, just don't know. But, ok you've convinced me the problem is mechanical. Be nice if you could try a different starter. Speaking about the Lucas generator and voltage regulator. The alternator they sell for these tractors charges at 65 amps. (There's a cheaper one that charges at 35 amps) but the lucas generator I believe is rated for 22 amps and does not charge at idle speed I'm told. The "one wire" alternator conversion will put lucas out of your life forever and it's available with the tach drive. So when it comes time to spend money there.....


Appreciate the info on the generator! No sense in fixing what's not broken. But good info to have in the future . Speaking of the tack drive. The previous owner told me he installed a new tach cable and it worked for a day or so then the tack needle broke and it now just spins round and round. Ya think he installed it wrong, or did the tach just go bad?

Next chance I get to work on it, I'm gonna file the burrs of the couple teeth showing, and retest to see if it binds less. Will keep you all updated.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2018)

Let me stress.....I am not a mechanic....having said that, to me it would seem that you could disconnect the cable from the tach and see if it spins with the engine running. Generator has to drive the cable, cable has to be whole, cable has to drive the tach and hour meter. Perhaps one of the more mechanically experienced folks can shed more light?


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