# Grapple: type and thickness of steel



## J_E_F_F

I am purchasing a new tractor (plan is 40hp LS w/3rd function) and would like a 60" grapple. This is just for home use on a 6 acre wooded lot. Not rocks, but root and brush maintenance on the honey dew list. Getting too old and broken to do it by hand any more.
I'm sure I'll be engaging the ground to take up roots a bit, shrubs, not trees.
I'll also be picking up tree/shrub trimmings after storms and winter (south winter, not much) and general maintenance and broken limbs here and there, nothing too crazy.

I was looking at the Titan Attachments Root Grapple V2
https://www.palletforks.com/skid-st...rake-attachment-for-skid-steer-v2/113312.html

It is made from 1/2" steel from Chinese steel I'm sure.

Today I saw Homestead Impliments a USA company with products made in the USA
https://homesteadimplements.com/grapple/

It is made from 5/16" AR400 steel (origin unknown at this point.) 5/16" seems really thin for a grapple?

My thoughts are the Titan/China 1/2" steel should be a lot stronger just based on size and weight 675 pounds vs 280 pounds. 

Also the Titan/China V2 model opens to 48" capacity where the USA model opens to 38"
These are both in my ~$2K price range, does it seem like the Titan is the better model?

Are there others I should be looking at in this same ~$2k ranks?


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## J_E_F_F

I called Titan, it is made from 1/2" A36 Grade 50 steel
Any idea how that would compare against 5/16" AR400 hardened steel?

I'd like to use the lighter grapple from the USA company, just wondering about the thinner steel and the 10" smaller opening.


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## Homestead Implements

Hello, Homestead Implements here. Our brush and root grapples are made of Hardox 450, 5/16" thick plate and made right here in our shop in Western New York. Let us know if you have any other questions!


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## J_E_F_F

Your website states AR450, but your site spec sheet https://homesteadimplements.com/content/Spec Sheets/RG_Root Grapple.pdf and the sales person I talked to on the phone yesterday both state AR400. Which is accurate? As a side note, he mentioned a lot of steel comes from Canada these days because of the current tariffs, which leads me to believe it is often globally sourced (China?) 

A competitor EverythingAttachments advertises AR450 at 1/4", are you selling AR450 at 5/16 these days?


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## Homestead Implements

That was our mistake, our apologies. Our web site has been updated to reflect Hardox 450 at 5/16" thickness. We were using AR400 for testing but are now using Hardox 450 for production. All of our sheet and plate steel for our implements is sourced from the USA. Unfortunately, due to COVID, we have had to source some tubing from Canada due to a lack of availability in the US. When we cannot use US tubing, we use Canadian tubing and we get certification that is 100% sourced and manufactured in Canada. We never source any steel from China. We strongly prefer to buy American made tube and hope that US supply returns quickly!


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## J_E_F_F

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate it. I'm sold.

I sold my old tractor this morning and ordered a new one this afternoon, so I am currently tractorless for a couple weeks. I have a few more questions that could easily be answered over the phone, but in case anyone else is wondering and for future reference, lets talk about delivery.

Since I don't have a tractor at the moment, does your delivery include getting the grapple off the truck and onto the ground, or will I need my new tractor for that?

What is your current lead time on a 60" root grapple?

Do you charge payment upon order or when shipped?


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## Homestead Implements

Congratulations on the new tractor! Lead time on grapples is currently 2 weeks. Please contact Jerrod tomorrow and he’ll get your order details. Thank you!


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## J_E_F_F

For those wondering, without an existing way to unload the grapple from the truck yourself (tractor/forks) they need to send a delivery truck with a lift gate, and that is a $159 fee. So gonna wait until new tractor arrives.


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## Groo

back to your original question wrt gr50 vs AR400 or hardox 450,
ASTM A572 Grade 50 Plate
"Grade 50 is a Columbium-Vanadium steel that offers a minimum yield of 50,000 PSI."
AR400 is an abrasion resistant steel
Yield Strength (Typical) 172 Ksi. It is graded by hardness not yield, so there is generally no minimum yield strength, like the A572 plate.
Hardox 450 is made by SSAB and is just another wear steel, generally held to tighter tolerances than more generic AR. They also don't guarantee a yield strength as once again; that is not the point of the material, but they claim a typical yield of 1250mpa, or 181ksi

I'm not sure a log grapple is a good use for a wear steel in general, but it is also a stronger steel, so its not a bad choice. That said; I have no idea how typical yield compares to minimum yield. AR400 ranges from a harness of 360 – 444 BHN, so I would would guess the minimum yield is about 10% below the typical as well.
AR400 and Hardox even more so, have an aura of being super steels. That isn't ever what they were intended to be, but the perception is definitely out there.

ps. you can get more form-able versions of AR, and Hardox is one, that can be bent more without cracking, but none of them will take to getting bent like gr.50.

pps. If you want in industry that uses real low grade steels you were in no way expecting; gun safes. Most places I tried to contact wouldn't even tell me what grade they were using, the one that did proudly proclaimed 20,000 psi yield strength!!!....I didn't even know you could get modern steel that soft, but I guess they do bend it tightly.


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## J_E_F_F

Thanks for that, and yes you are correct about intended use. I'm pretty sure my shooting targets are AR400, very hard, but in a grapple, I think yield strength might be equally if not more important than abrasion resistance.


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## Groo

J_E_F_F said:


> For those wondering, without an existing way to unload the grapple from the truck yourself (tractor/forks) they need to send a delivery truck with a lift gate, and that is a $159 fee. So gonna wait until new tractor arrives.


in the past I have just pulled a heavy item from the flatbed delivery truck onto our flatbed F350. A grapple is much lighter than the item I did that with (a quonset hut type steel building, the F350 was on the bump-stops). I bet one could be slid into the back of a normal truck without a problem. The grapple I have, got placed into the back of my Avalanche with a forklift at work. It came in a big angle iron cage. I was able to slide it out of the Avalanche solo, without it crashing down.


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## J_E_F_F

Tractor "should" be here in a week or two, no biggie, thanks though.
Quonset huts are pretty cool, been in many on Attu Island and the NY Seneca Army Depot, the new new type are really neat, I'm gonna need a place to store all these attachments & implements, hmm....


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## Groo

J_E_F_F said:


> Tractor "should" be here in a week or two, no biggie, thanks though.
> Quonset huts are pretty cool, been in many on Attu Island and the NY Seneca Army Depot, the new new type are really neat, I'm gonna need a place to store all these attachments & implements, hmm....


generally, the Dozer, the sawmill, either the kubota or its backhoe, plus a few other odds and ends get stored in the shed. we skipped adding end walls (originally planned for them) because the the exhaust doesn't gag you when starting an old diesel without them, and luckily enough, the snow stays out of it during the winter as-is, so no real need for end walls.


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