# Ford 2000 (or 3000) project



## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Hi all, thought I'd post some pictures of my winter project - my late father-in-law's Ford 2000, which has been sitting around for about thirty years waiting for some TLC! I've never worked on a tractor before, but have fiddled about with old cars and motorbikes in the past, so I (just about) know how to hold a spanner 

I've already gleaned a lot of useful knowledge from rummaging through the forum which has given me some (misplaced?) confidence in embarking upon this project. I've also had some really helpful replies to my first technical query post. I've also discovered that the tractor is probably a 3000 contrary to the decals. And, most importantly, I've learned that Anvers, Belgique is the same as Antwerp, Belgium!

So, here's the starting point. Well, not quite - task #1 was to pump up the tyres which, remarkably, stayed inflated! Result!:










The C prefix means it's a 3000, does it not?









More C pefixed numbers, note the stolen starter motor! What's missing from the bolt-hole above the serial #, I wonder?









Missing battery, starter, freeze plug, fuel filter bolts:










One day I'll have to try to sort out this lot 8-( The square section back axle is another 3000 indicator, I believe:



















From this -
6B14B 1966, Feb 14th day shift, I believe. Not sure about the rest:
D2000 B15 6 
4 128 - 130 Actually *A*128-130, which seems to be the pattern for Antwerp serial numbers (ref: https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ford&th=613176)










I've now replugged the freeze plug, next tasks:
- Replacing filters and fluids
- New starter motor and battery

I'll keep you posted with progress (or lack of!). And most definitely, I'll be back to share all the snags I encounter.

All the best from a damp and chilly Brittany,

John


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

John.. BEFORE U TURN THE KEY.. Loosen ALL the steel lines from the injection pump AT THE INJECTORS..
"IF" it starts to pump & that's a BIG IF {seeing it sat for so long} the fuel in those lines & pump is gonna be STALE/BAD & u don't want that "stuff" going into the injectors..
One more thing.. IF the injectors are stuck closed, the fuel that's going to them from the pump, will back up & seize the injection pump.. its BEST to get the injectors & pump checked out BEFORE turning the key..
BUT then again, u probably don't wanna put abunch of money into a machine that u don't know the condition of..??
Check to see if the pump pumps fuel first{loosened steel lines}
Heres hoping for the best..Good Luck..


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Hi John

The plate says 3000 and the engine Serial Number starts with ND, which means an early diesel 3000 engine. The Serial Number fits an early 1000 series tractor, so 1966 seems right.
Look at this:
https://www.tractorforum.com/manuals/ford-1000-series-identification.11/
You can check if the Serial Number is stamped on the engine.

The Belgian Blues are hard to identify exactly, they have a numbering that differs from the ones assembled in England and USA, and there is not very much to find about what their codes mean.

The raised letters on the casting has nothing to do with what model the tractor is.

One way, normally, to say if it is a 2000 or a 3000 is to look at the draft control spring. I copy some text from another forum where I answered another owner of an Antwerp model:
"An easy way to find out if it is a 2000 or 3000 is to look for the spring for the draft control. I can not determine from the pictures, but if you can see a fat spring behind the driver's seat, then it is a 2000. 3000 had a cover over the spring.
Here you can see the spring on a 2000:




"
and
" Stuart Gibbard writes this in 'The Ford Tractor Story, Part Two':
'...at the Antwerp plant, which built several specialist machines and could, in fact, offer 1,000 different variations on the four basic 6X models.'
"
That means that signs that point clearly to a model when it concerns British or US assembled tractors, does not give you a definite direction when it comes to an Antwerp unit.


If you need parts, look at New Hollands online parts list:
https://partstore.agriculture.newho...379f91a94779eab5&sl=EN&currency=#epc::mr67519
There are comments in the "Description" field and there may be an "Antwerp" notation for some parts.

***Edit:
There may also be a "France" notation. If this one was delivered to France, it will probably have been equipped for the French market.
***


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Another way to get close is give me the #'s off the name plate on the injection pump.
3233*** {top line}
DO NOT scrape the name plate.. its soft aluminum.. Get some gasket/ paint remover in a spray can from the parts store or walmart.. spray it on & wipe it off..easy.
Some oven cleaners will do the same thing.. & it looks like it needs a bath anyway..Lol


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

In addition to the square axles and covered draft spring another way to tell a 2000 from a 3000 is the flow control valve.
3000s always had them. 2000s never did.
Then again, on an antwerp tractor all bets are off with things like that.


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Ultradog said:


> In addition to the square axles and covered draft spring another way to tell a 2000 from a 3000 is the flow control valve.
> 3000s always had them. 2000s never did.
> Then again, on an antwerp tractor all bets are off with things like that.


So, is that the flow control valve under the seat? 
No, it isn't, just found out, sorry.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

JohnEl said:


> So, is that the flow control valve under the seat?
> No, it isn't, just found out, sorry.
> View attachment 42471


That knob under the seat is called a diverter valve. It is for operating a remote cylinder. Pull it out and you can use the lift handle to operate a remote cylinder. Push it in and your 3 point works.
You can't use a remote cyl And the 3 point at the same time. It's either/or but not both.
You don't have a flow control valve on yours. You have just a cover plate. Note the extra gizmo with small knob on this tractor in my photo. No big deal. You really never use the flow control. I Never have in 15 years of operating mine.
As I said earlier, it might be an Antwerp thing. ALL US made 3000s had the flow control.
PS, my photo also shows two red circles. Those are the transmission and rear end oil level check plugs.
Lastly, the picture also shows an arrow pointing to a slotted screw.
Do NOT take that screw out.
Ever.


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Ultradog said:


> That knob under the seat is called a diverter valve. It is for operating a remote cylinder. Pull it out and you can use the lift handle to operate a remote cylinder. Push it in and your 3 point works.
> *You can't use a remote cyl And the 3 point at the same time.* It's either/or but not both.
> ...


Really?


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

Hacke said:


> Really?
> 
> View attachment 42479
> View attachment 42481


And so we have the facts.
Thanks.
We're all here to learn.
I had a 641 with a one armed loader on it and it had that diverter valve on it to raise the loader. Bucket was a trip style.
I didn't own it long and never messed with it much so I never really learned all its features.


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

That valve was one of many things that puzzled me when I got my 4000, therefore I was sure it was three positions on the 4000 and checked to see if it was the same on 2000/3000...

I have not yet figured out when this function can be useful, maybe on some implement that folds up when you lift it? The circuit with the lowest load will go first and then the other, I imagine, but perhaps there are implements that are supposed to work that way.

The previous owner had bent it in full out position. Nice tractor, but there is not much room for your boots. Maybe it is easier without a cab, so you can throw your leg over like on a horse.


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

thepumpguysc said:


> Another way to get close is give me the #'s off the name plate on the injection pump.
> 3233*** {top line}
> DO NOT scrape the name plate.. its soft aluminum.. Get some gasket/ paint remover in a spray can from the parts store or walmart.. spray it on & wipe it off..easy.
> Some oven cleaners will do the same thing.. & it looks like it needs a bath anyway..Lol


Sorry, I haven't been ignoring your message, just unable to read the tiny digits on the CAV nameplate :-( It's my age :-0
Finally found the right combination of torches, glasses and magnifiers: I can now tell you that the magic number is: 323 2958.
I'll be very grateful for any further information you can tell me from this.
New starter motor is fitted and working, waiting to test your other suggestion regarding clearing out the old fuel and bleeding in the new stuff. Except all the gas stations in this part of France have run out of diesel (and petrol); militant protesters have blockaded the two main fuel distribution depots :-( Vive la France


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Did you find the Serial Number on the engine? Search for a flat spot at the bottom edge of the block, under the injection pump.

The first letter is what you need. If it is an L or a B, it is a 2000 engine. If it is an N (like the plate says)or a C, it is a 3000 engine.


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Hacke said:


> Did you find the Serial Number on the engine? Search for a flat spot at the bottom edge of the block, under the injection pump.
> 
> The first letter is what you need. If it is an L or a B, it is a 2000 engine. If it is an N (like the plate says)or a C, it is a 3000 engine.


Hi, thank you for your post - would this be the engine serial number (see img):
C7NN 6015 S
?. So it's a 3000 engine, then?
Thanks again,
John


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

JohnEl said:


> Hi, thank you for your post - would this be the engine serial number (see img):
> C7NN 6015 S
> ?. So it's a 3000 engine, then?
> Thanks again,
> John


No, look further down the engine block. See attached picture.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

According to the injection pump..
it fits a New Holland 2000 from 1964-1975 158cu in 32bhp
Hope that helps.. TPG


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Hacke said:


> No, look further down the engine block. See attached picture.
> View attachment 42547


Thank you for your patience, Hacke. Armed with the attached picture I've just reexamined the engine block, scraped off the filth, scraped off the blue paint, scraped off the red paint underneath (!), down to bare metal... and still no number. I've checked the other side too, no number there either :-( The only explanation I can think of is that maybe someone ground the number off in the distant past for some reason?
Thanks again,
John


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

I JUST told u its a 2000..


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

So finally managed to get hold of five litres of diesel! 
Bled the fuel lines at 1) filter head 2) pump body. All OK.
Loosened the fuel lines at the injectors and turned the starter key...
Aaarggh :-( nothing coming through. Not a drip. 
Am I missing something or is it going to have to be an expensive new pump?
I'll be very grateful for your words of wisdom on this.
Thanks in advance.
John


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Theres a couple of things u can check..
Either the pump "inards" are stuck or its locked up.. lets hope for the 1st.
but lets check for the 2nd, 1st..
Remove the inlet line from the back of the inj. pump & fill the port up w/ fuel..
Now spin the engine a few rotations.. does the fuel get sucked down?? if not, that's not good..
Do u have the throttle pulled to wide open/full throttle??
Is the shut off lever in the RUN position.??. long leg on the shut off lever towards the radiator..
How did u bleed the pump?? Theres a double bleed bolt by the nameplate.. 5/16 into a 7/16.. loosen the 5/16 & spin the engine till fuel comes out & NO air & tighten..
I rebuild pumps for a living.. no need to buy new.. most of the time.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

JohnEl said:


> So finally managed to get hold of five litres of diesel!
> Bled the fuel lines at 1) filter head 2) pump body. All OK.
> Loosened the fuel lines at the injectors and turned the starter key...
> Aaarggh :-( nothing coming through. Not a drip.
> ...


I don't claim to be a pump man but my guess is the problem is your metering valve.
On those CAV pumps it is rather common for them to get stuck in the off position.
Here is a post with a picture I put up on another forum that explains how to free it up.
It has helped many guys get their tractor started.
"First of all CLEAN your pump and its surroundings.
Pressure wash it then use brake cleaner.
You do NOT want any dirt inside.
Shut fuel off at the tank.
Remove the throttle rod and shut off cable.
Cut the wire that has the lead seal on it.
Remove the two nuts that hold the top cover on the pump. There are washers under the nuts. Do not lose them or your cover will leak.
Carefully lift the cover of the pump about 3/4".
Do NOT overstretch or remove the spring that is attached under the cover.
The photo below shows the pump backwards from what you will actually see. Note the slide bar #3. That will be right in front of you when you lift the cover. That slide bar operates the metering valve. See the red arrow. Metering valve has a very weak spring that should return it forward to run position. They get stuck in the off position. Free it up with a small screwdriver or popsicle stick - move it back and forth till it returns forward on it's own.
Get the slide bar located properly - that can be tricky so use due care. Replace the cover. Replace the washers and nuts.
Some say you will ruin the gasket under the cover when you do this. I have done this a dozen times and gasket was always fine.
Turn on the fuel and bleed the filters. Bleed the pump. Crack all 3 injector lines at the injectors, turn the engine with the starter and bleed them all simultaneously. Then retighten the nuts . It should start then.
Remember this pic is backwards.
It really is Very simple to do so don't be scared of it.
Let us know how it goes."


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

You saved me abunch of typing Ultradog.. That was gonna be where I was gonna go next.. but no sense pulling off the top cover, in my opinion, without figuring out if its seized..
My thinking is> if its not seized.. the mv IS gonna be stuck AND the pumping plungers..
I wish he was closer.. I'd take it & check it out..


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

thepumpguysc said:


> Theres a couple of things u can check..
> Either the pump "inards" are stuck or its locked up.. lets hope for the 1st.
> but lets check for the 2nd, 1st..
> Remove the inlet line from the back of the inj. pump & fill the port up w/ fuel..
> ...


Thank you very much for that TPGSC. You have given me some hope! So:
- Removed inlet line and spun engine: I can confirm fuel _does _get sucked down, slowly.
- Throttle is fully open.
- Shut off lever in run (the other end of shut off lever fully against the stop).
- loosened the 5/16 to bleed the pump. Some bubbles came out with fuel, then just fuel.
Re-examined the fuel lines where they meet the injectors: Some fuel is in fact coming through (for the frontmost cylinder more than the two others). I've no idea how much fuel should be coming through in each "squirt" - it's more of a drip (to use technical terminology  ), I had expected more.

I'll be very grateful to receive any further ideas you have on this; I was a bit down at the idea of having to spend 500+ Euros on a new pump, my daughter even more so, as I'd told her Santa would probably not be coming this year 

Meanwhile, I'll look into this sticky metering valve idea of Ultradog's (big thanks too).

Cheers

John


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

That's GREAT NEWS.. yup, head for the top cover & the mv..
Your going to find once u break open the TC.. it probably wont seal back without leaking.. That's OK.. just to do the starting test.. u can come back later & reseal it once u get it pumping fuel & running..


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Update: MV was stuck, fiddled about with it and got it moving again. Looks like this was a problem, thank you PumpGuy and Ultradog.
_However_, on opening the cover, as warned, the gasket ripped - half on cover, half on pump body, will have to replace this.
But the big disaster was that in tightening the last of the two nuts on top of the cover, the threaded rod (bolt?) sheared flush with the top of the cover :-( I was only tightening with a little spanner, honest!
Couldn't resist finishing the reassembly, bled the lines down to the pump. Turned over the starter, getting a lot more fuel getting through to the injector lines now. So I think the MV stickage had been the problem. 
And I'm reasonably confident that if I can get hold of a new pump head gasket and bolt/nut I'll be able to put the pump back together with no leakage...
Thanks again for your help and encouragement.
Cheers
John


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

You aren't the first & def. wont be the last that happened to..
Use Google as your search engine & put in CAV DPA TOP COVER GASKET..
Look on ebay & there are tons of TC gasket kits{mini-kits}, studs & nuts for sale.
Good luck.. I stock all those parts but the shipping would be a nite-mare.. Hopefully u can find someone who ships internationally..


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Diesel fuel is not the same product today as it was when these pumps where designed. It is less "slippery" today, and the quality varies. The internal parts of the pump is meant to be lubricated by the fuel. To enhance the lubricating effect, some owners (guilty...) add two-stroke oil to the fuel. It would be interesting to know thepumpguysc's opinion. Is it recommendable?


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

That's good news John.
I will defer to Pump Guy's advice about a gasket and bolt/stud.
Did it start for you?
I would put a pan under the pump to catch the leaks and try starting it.
Fwiw, due to sticking MVs 
many of us on other forums have taken to keeping the shut off knob pushed in when the tractor sits. Kill the engine then push it back in.
Here is a link to ebay UK.
You should be able to get the kit from across the channel or try ebay FR.

https://m.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?isR...KET..&_sacat=0&_trksid=m570.l1313&_mwBanner=1


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Thanks yet again PumpGuy / Ultradog - your ebay tips got me straight to the required parts - a seller in Macedonia: gasket kit, stud bolt + washer +nut, 26 Euros including postage. Hadn't expected to find the parts so readily available. Might still even get the tractor going before xmas. Although I've no idea what state the injector nozzles are in...


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

The injectors are a BIG if..
IF they are stuck CLOSED.. the fuel will back-up & seize the pump..
Its in your best interest to get them checked.. or take them out & take them apart.
Just take the BOTTOM nut off.. & see if the "pintle" is free inside the tip.
Its best to have a 3/4 crows foot & a ftlb torque wrench when doing this..


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

A big bonjour from Brittany!
Received my CAV pieces and managed to reassemble the top cover in situ - relocating that spring took most of the time and exhausted my vocabulary of swear words :-~ 
Turned over the starter with loosened injector nuts, some fuel is getting through to all three lines now.
PumpGuy - you mentioned that the pump might be seized and/or the pumping plungers; is there an "easy" way I can confirm if they are working or not, before moving on to pulling out the injectors?
I'll be very grateful for any further advice / comments.
Cheers
John


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

IF fuel is coming out of the lines.. the pump is not seized.. & its pumping..
Good luck
U might get lucky.!!! U don't have to send the injectors off.. u can remove & inspect them yourself..


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

thepumpguysc said:


> IF fuel is coming out of the lines.. the pump is not seized.. & its pumping..
> Good luck
> U might get lucky.!!! U don't have to send the injectors off.. u can remove & inspect them yourself..


Hi all, back in the workshop at last after the festivities 
Pulled off the injectors and bottom nuts. All the pintles were stuck.
One of the three came free fairly easily, cleaned and lubricated the bore with WD40 and it now slides freely.
Unfortunately the other two pintles are seriously stuck :-(
Is there an approved method for freeing up these babies without damaging them? Heat? Brute force and ignorance? 
I'll be very grateful to receive your words of wisdom. 
All the best
John


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

No wisdom from me, but I have found that old dried gunk will be removed if you put the parts in a bowl of acetone over night. Maybe rust is your problem, acetone attacks rust as well and penetrates well.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Prvt msg sent..
As long as u have the tips out.. post the #'s on it.. DLLA***S***??


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Just some info attached.


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

thepumpguysc said:


> Prvt msg sent..
> As long as u have the tips out.. post the #'s on it.. DLLA***S***??


RDLL 150S 6443 is the number on the tips.

And... your pintle extraction idea worked... got rotation... then a couple of millimetres of linear movement... then, emboldened by the sudden progress, I still managed to snap off the end bits of the two pintles with some over-enthusiastic twisting :-(

New tips on order. Estimated delivery 2nd January.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

LOL.. THAT happens sometimes if u don't twist straight back..
Glad it worked & u were able to find replacements..
They weren't TOO expensive were they??


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

thepumpguysc said:


> LOL.. THAT happens sometimes if u don't twist straight back..
> Glad it worked & u were able to find replacements..
> They weren't TOO expensive were they??


Way too expensive by US standards, I believe: 53€ (the pair, including postage). This was the cheapest of the five french suppliers I use... the most expensive was my "local" coming in at over 70€. (A euro being $1.14 or thereabouts). That'll teach me to drive an exotic foreign tractor :-0


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

WOW.. at least u found some on your side of the pond..
I see on ebay here, they were 12.00 each{US}
Don't forget to TORQUE them.. 45 FTlbs..


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Happy 2019 all!
Two new nozzles received, injectors cleaned in acetone, all reassembled, resealed and reattached. Bled the fuel lines at filter, then pump then at nozzles. New preheater gets the manifold smoking and sounds like it's blowing bubbles in the air filter oil bath after about ten seconds... (ambient temperature is 3 or 4 degrees C (= high 30s F)) Then the starter spins up, the motor turns over, sounds like it's firing maybe one or two times, there might be a bit of white smoke coming out of the exhaust. But I still can't get the damn thing to start. Ran out of daylight. Battery getting tired. Will try again tomorrow. Any further tips/encouragement gratefully received.
Cheers and goodnight.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

They can be a SOB to fire for the 1st time after opening the fuel system..
Take your time & don't burn up the starter.!!!
RE bleed everything again.. that air will hide in a lot of places..
The WHITE smoke is fuel getting into the cylinder but is to COLD to burn..
IF you know how to PROPERLY USE a quick start can, u might give it a little squirt,
ONLY AFTER bleeding it again..
PRE-HEAT the h3ll outta it w/ the intake burner.. burn it for a 20 count & then do it again.. then try to crank it..
Good luck..


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

thepumpguysc said:


> They can be a SOB to fire for the 1st time after opening the fuel system..
> Take your time & don't burn up the starter.!!!
> RE bleed everything again.. that air will hide in a lot of places..
> The WHITE smoke is fuel getting into the cylinder but is to COLD to burn..
> ...



Or pull start it.


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

I have no experience when it comes to this, but I am eager to learn. When the injectors have been serviced, they have no fuel in them. You bleed the lines, but there is no way to bleed the injectors. When you try to start the engine, the air in the injectors can not open the nozzle valve, because the air gets compressed and act as a spring and you will not reach the opening pressure. Am I right so far?

When servicing an injector, would it help to "prime" the injectors at reassembly?
I mean filling it with diesel and plug the inlet, before you put it together and keeping it plugged until you connect the lines.

If you have empty injectors on your engine, would it help to prime them through the inlet openings with, say, a syringe with a needle, before connecting the lines?


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Hacke.. NO.!!! The air gets purged thu the loosened injector line.. then the line is tightened up & fuel is
pushed into the injector..
NO other steps are necessary..


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

As I wrote:
You bleed the lines, but there is no way to bleed the injectors.

I mean the air that is trapped in the injector when you tighten the line.
See attached picture, red marked volume.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Its so minute, its not worth mentioning..or even thinking about..


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Tales from the poulailler, episode 42:
OK, so started with a bleed at filter (ok), then pump body (ok), then fuel lines. Stream of bubbles emerging from the 3rd (rearmost line), other two: no bubbles, just diesel. After a while thought I'd give it a go, tightened lines.
Lots of preheater (20s), turned the starter, fired a couple of times, plenty of white smoke from the exhaust, which was encouraging. Repeated the preheat, starter cycle several times. No start.
Loosened bleed screw on pump, turned engine, loads of diesel gushing out, no bubbles. Retightened.
Loosened the fuel lines at injectors again, turned engine, loads of bubbles still coming through on rearmost line, other two are just diesel.
Bleeding, bleeding, bleeding that bleedin' rearmost line. Bubbles not diminishing. Eventually 150Ah battery dead. Will take a couple of days to charge on my baby battery charger :-(
Is it normal for the bleeding process to take so long on that one injector line, or could it be sucking in air elsewhere and blowing it all down that one line?
Appreciate your advice, as always.
Cheers
John


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

That's not normal.. if 2 are bled, so shouldn't the 3rd.. Theres only 1 pumping element that feeds all the cylinders, so if 2 are ok.??
What that's telling me is> that tip is stuck open & allowing compression to be blown back up thru the injector..
Seeing u don't have a pop tester, take that or for that matter, take all the injectors out.
Turn them upside down & hook the lines back up.. So the tips are up in the air.. THAT WAY, you'll be able TO SEE {if]them squirting & atomizing the fuel.. 
WORDS OF CAUTION>> The atomized fuel will penetrate your skin.. DO NOT be close to the injector when doing this.!!
You might have to bend the lines slightly.. that's ok.. just don't put any big kinks in the line.. Good Luck.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

I will defer to the Pump guy here. He's the pro.
I bought this burned tractor about 10 years ago. It caught on fire from a faulty block heater. It was also very greasy/grimy so had plenty of fuel for the fire.
I had another parts tractor so started swapping parts - inj pump, injectors, starter, radiator, etc, etc.
I could Not get it to fire up even after messing with it for a couple of days. Had good fuel in all the right places but no joy.
After a couple of battery charges I finally got tired of messing with it and had my brother pull me with his pickup.
We didn't pull it more than about 100' and it fired right up and started good ever after.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

WOW UD.. that looks like a MAJOR project.. way to go.!!

I would also suggest towing the machine.. BUT.. most folks don't have anyone capable to tow in a safe manner or don't have another machine.. & if u think about it.. most the posters cant figure out that they ran out of fuel.. & I'd don't feel comfortable telling them to hook up a chain & drag their machine behind another.. Lol
So its just "safer" to tell'm to turn "a key"..Lol


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Surely you're not talking about me, TPGSC :-0 
Our car is a Citroen C1, which weighs about a third of what the tractor weighs and is apparently too small to even attach a tow bar!
The neighbour's got a big modern tractor: I'll ask him for a tow (if necessary!) once I've finished checking out the injectors...
So now I've pulled all the injectors (easier this time than a couple of weeks ago!) and reconnected them outside the head. Didn't snap any fuel lines, which impressed me!
The injector with the constant bleeding bubbling is the one with original nozzle/pintle - you remember, I had to replace the other two because the pintles were jammed in and snapped. The pintle isn't stuck, it slides easily in/out. Don't know why I didn't just replace it when I bought the other two.
I'll give the injectors a blast in the morning, when there'll be a bit of charge restored to the battery. And I'll be reporting back to you guys in the hope you'll continue to give me that much needed guidance.
Thank you, once again,
Cheers
John


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

and JohnEl, don't let anyone come close with matches or lighter when those injectors are atomizing, the distillate is very inflammable in that state.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

thepumpguysc said:


> WOW UD.. that looks like a MAJOR project.. way to go.!!




Pumpguy,
Thanks.
It looked a LOT worse than it actually was.
I remember thinking after I got it pressure washed/cleaned up that if the valve cover gasket was burned in it then likely the valve springs had lost their temper and I would need to go into it deeper.
So I was holding my breath as I pulled it.
Voila! 
The gasket was a little dry but not charred or discolored at all.
I replaced the gasket and all was good.
One thing I've always wondered about though is would that fire have damaged the injectors?
I swapped them with the others I had cause I didn't know.
JohnEI,
Sorry to hijack your thread here. Was just wondering about the injectors.
Any progress today? Hoping for good news from you here.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Certainly NOT John..
Having the new info about NOT replacing the 1 injector tip just confirms my suspicion.
The tip is hung open.. I had the same thing happen to me while working in a Yanmar 2 cylinder.. Took the inj. out, cleaned'm up, reinstalled..1 would stick.. did it 3x before I gave up & ordered new ones..& I have a pop tester.. I guess the heat from the engine would expand the metal & stick the pintle.??
It sounds as if your 90% there John.. & IF you HAD gotten the 3rd tip, you'd be plowin by now.. lol


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Ultra> I would say YES.. the heat would of boiled the fuel that was inside the inj., distorting the metal.. I've seen it happen several times..


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Ultradog said:


> Pumpguy,
> Thanks.
> It looked a LOT worse than it actually was.
> I remember thinking after I got it pressure washed/cleaned up that if the valve cover gasket was burned in it then likely the valve springs had lost their temper and I would need to go into it deeper.
> ...


Ultradog, you're very welcome to post your inspirational experiences and pictures to "my" thread - gives me some hope  Back off to the poulailler now for the last hour of daylight - the injector test is not going quite as I expected... stay tuned for a full report. Many thanks, JL


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

More tales from the poulailler...
So off I went with a semi-charged battery to see what's going on with those injector nozzles sitting on top of the head, having reconnected the fuel lines.
Turned the motor, no spray, no drops, nuthin'.
Bled the system at filter (ok), pump body (ok)
Try again, still nothing. disconnect the fuel lines from injectors - nothing coming out.
But I can hear drips on the floor...
There's a pipe that runs from the leak off pipes to the top of the CAV pump.













This is where all the fuel was being pumped out.
Is this a pump malfunction or just a side-effect of the injectors being removed?
Could this have been happening all along?
I can't find any reference in my service manuals or various bits of CAV literature describing the function of this pipe (arrowed in one of the images). *EDIT*. I now have, but isn't the fuel meant to come down _from _the leak-off of the injectors into the pump, not the other way?
Thank you in advance for your words of wisdom.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

THAT LINE is for the "cold start devise", in the air intake manifold.{thermo-start}
The actual "return" line is on the side of the inj. pump.
Some CSD go directly to the intake.. while others go to fill a canister on/by the firewall.
That connector bolt{banjo bolt} should have a small orifice in it.. & the main return should come off the side of the inj. pump..
CHECK the return line & make sure fuel is flowing from there.. 
That side plate has a check ball & spring in it.. it may be stuck, not allowing the fuel to return thru IT..
If everything is ok.. feel free to block that other line while your doing your injector test.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

1 more thing.. The timing line on the pump mounting flange.. It NEEDS TO BE at or REAL CLOSE to "0" on the engine block..


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

thepumpguysc said:


> 1 more thing.. The timing line on the pump mounting flange.. It NEEDS TO BE at or REAL CLOSE to "0" on the engine block..


JohnEI







,
If you aren't familiar with the timing marks Pumpguy is referring to here is a photo.


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

thepumpguysc said:


> THAT LINE is for the "cold start devise", in the air intake manifold.{thermo-start}
> The actual "return" line is on the side of the inj. pump.
> Some CSD go directly to the intake.. while others go to fill a canister on/by the firewall.
> That connector bolt{banjo bolt} should have a small orifice in it.. & the main return should come off the side of the inj. pump..
> ...


Thank you for your message TPGSC, just so we're talking about the same pipe, I've highlighted it with the arrows in the following (picture from the manual, they've labelled it the fuel leak off line):








It goes from the frontmost banjo then bends right round and down and is connected to the frontmost port on the far side of the CAV top (behind in the above view). This is the pipe squirting diesel up and out when I turn over the engine. 
(There's yet another pipe that goes from the thermostart at the entry of the intake manifold to the lower connection on the cannister on the bulkhead.)
So to reconfirm, are you saying it is OK that most of the diesel is being squirted up the arrowed pipe in the above diagram (and next to nothing coming out of the injector lines)?
Many many thanks for your help.
And the help on the pump timing markings (+ultradog) - we're not quite at that stage yet, are we? 
Cheers
JL


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Look at the attached pdf.

The tube, #55, at the back of the pump is a return line from the pump lid.
The tube is connected to the front injector, via a rubber hose.

The idea is theat leak off diesel is transported from the pump lid and joins the leak off diesel from each injector on it´s way back to tank (via the Thermostart canister in your case).

The arrangement in the pdf has no Thermostart canister, it would have been placed at #87 near the tank filler pipe.


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Hacke said:


> Look at the attached pdf.
> 
> The tube, #55, at the back of the pump is a return line from the pump lid.
> The tube is connected to the front injector, via a rubber hose.
> ...


Thanks Hacke, so the diesel I'm seeing coming out of that pipe (see my first picture from yesterday) is leak off diesel from the pump and is normal? Seems to be a hell of a lot of it.

OK then, back to the original problem, why am I getting no fuel getting to the injectors? I'll catch the leak offs in a container and reinvestigate tomorrow. In a moment of panic earlier today I suddenly thought I'd put the seals on the fuel filter wrongly. Dismantled it - I'd done it correctly after all! - reassembled it. Diesel everywhere :-( A whole lot of bleeding to be done again tomorrow. 

Thanks again. 
Cheers


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Another depressing couple of hours in the poulailler...
Loads of fuel gushing out of the leak off pipe coming from the top of the pump (a couple of pints, total).
But nothing coming through to the injector pipes, apart from a very occasional drip.
(diesel shoots out of the side bleed screw on the CAV when I loosen it and turn over the engine).
Does this suggest anything to anyone (apart from my incompetence :-0 )?
Appreciate your comments.
Cheers
JL


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

PLUG the line from the top cover.. & check the line coming off the SIDE..
A small piece of rubber hose w/ a bolt/screw stuck in the end should be enough.
Are u SURE the shut off is in the RUN position & the throttle is WIDE OPEN.??
Having it pump 1 time & not another is troublesome.. U may have to check the metering valve again..??
OH.. just thought of something.!!
Does ANY of the return lines go back to the filter.?? IF SO & u have any of those lines open.. its sucking air back into the filter..& THATS WHY its not pumping fuel..


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Thank you TPGSC. 
Plugged the line from the top cover.
Bled at filter and pump bleed screw. 
Checked the MV again, was open, seems to still be springing back as it should. Now I'm having trouble getting the CAV lid to reseal again, especially around the top bolts. Worried about snapping off the bolts and/or trashing the threads.
Anyway, turned the engine over for a couple of 30s bursts. Nothing coming out of the fuel lines.
Run out of time in the workshop / poulailler. Will try looking at that main fuel return line on the side of the pump tomorrow.
Man, I stink of diesel; hope this stuff isn't hazardous...
Un grand merci to all of you sticking with me on this one, thank you for your patience.
Cheers
JL


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Once again.. did u check the SIDE return?? IF ITS STUCK it may be pressurizing the housing & leaking out of the top cover..
The top nut should have a fiber washer under it. DO NOT over tighten it.. you'll either snap the stud or warp the cover.


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Lunchtime update: Checked the side return, cleaned up, ball valve seems to be working. Reassembled. Bleeding at filter then much bleeding (and much air bubbles) at CAV body. Managed to get proper "money shot" diesel squirts out of the first, then 1st and 2nd injector lines. But then both stopped before anything arrived at the 3rd :-(
I've collected about a gallon of spilt diesel from taking off the filter, then the CAV lid and much bleeding - what can I do with it all? Can I filter it then reuse it? Or do I just need to dispose of it.
Going to keep up the bleeding - I know now it's still possible to get fuel shootin' out the lines - I'd almost given up hope!
Cheers
JL
And I cleaned up the timing marks - the pump _is_ aligned to zero.


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Added a gallon of fresh diesel to the tank. More bleeding at the filter (no more bubbles) and the CAV body bleed screw (stream of diesel shoots out when the engine is turned over). But can't get diesel shooting out of the injector lines again (as seen this morning).
Changed the fibre washer on the CAV cover top nut and managed to get a good seal again. Reluctant to loosen everything again to check the MV, especially as it was moving OK yesterday.
One thing I noticed with the side return - there is no gasket between the plate and the body of the pump. Should there be one? There is no fuel leaking from the joint, but it struck me as strange.
Lack of light / battery charge halted proceedings for the day. 
All comments will be greatly appreciated. 
Cheers
JL


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Just to make sure:

The levers for the throttle and shut off shafts have elongated holes to fit corresponding "shoulders" on the shafts (below the threads).
See:
https://injectionpumps.co.uk/product/lucas-cav-dpa-throttle-lever/
and
https://injectionpumps.co.uk/product/lucas-cav-dpa-stop-lever/

When you put on the nut on a shaft, you can, by mistake, push the shaft down and risk that the elongated hole is not positioned over the "shoulder" before tightening the nut.

So, check that your shafts are positioned correctly into their levers.



Yes, there should be a gasket, click #57:
https://injectionpumps.co.uk/interactive/interactive-cav-dpa-parts-diagram.htm


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Hacke said:


> Just to make sure:
> 
> The levers for the throttle and shut off shafts have elongated holes to fit corresponding "shoulders" on the shafts (below the threads).
> See:
> ...


Thank you Hacke,
I didn't remove the levers, so (hopefully) they should still be positioned correctly on the shoulders. I'll check 'em out tomorrow though, just in case.

I'd also expected to find a gasket between the side cover plate and the pump body. But I had to snip off the wire attached to the seal to remove the bolts, so I'm presuming it was originally delivered like this, without a gasket (see below for "before" pic).









Do you think this pump might have been bodged sometime in the past? Could the air be getting in here? There doesn't seem to be any fuel getting out.
I'd be interested to hear from PumpGuy if he's ever seen another pump without a gasket on this cover.
Thanks again,
JohnL


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Theres a gasket.. its on the inside of the cover. Even if there wasn't 1 & its not leaking, it wouldn't have any effect on the pumping circuit.
So it'll pump & stop.. that tells me your running out of fuel somewhere..
& I'll bet money its at that stupid filter head..
OR u said u took the transfer pump regulator apart to clean the filter.??
Send me a prvt msg, so I can get your home email & I'll send u a pump breakdown.
Just incase u put something together bass-ackwards..
What I'm concerned about w/ that SIDE valve is>> IS IT RETURNING FUEL to the tank.. TAKE OFF the rubber hose to MAKE SURE its opening up & returning fuel.
It almost sounds as if your building pressure inside the pump.. not returning fuel.
IF the pressure inside the housing is greater than the fuel coming in, it'll quit..
Never mind, I just saw Hackes diagram.. its the same.


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

I can see clearly now my headtorch battery is recharged. As you may have gathered, I'm working on this project in 19th century coal-mining conditions - no electricity in the workshop /poulailler, very few windows, not much daylight anyway. Adds to the challenge 
So, my humble apologies to Pumpguy / Hacke - I misled you - there was/is in fact a gasket on that side cover, found it today, I was working by near-candlelight yesterday!
PumpGuy: I _haven't_ taken apart the transfer pump regulator to clean the filter. Should I have?
The side valve on the injection pump is connected to the port number 4 at the top of the fuel filter. Curiously the arrow on top of the filter head is pointing the opposite way to what you might expect for the direction of fuel flow- it's pointing outward toward the injection pump. It corresponds to the illustration in the manual though.
I'll confirm if the side valve is letting out fuel tomorrow when the battery is recharged.
Many thanks for your advice.
Cheers
JL


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

thepumpguysc said:


> Theres a gasket.. its on the inside of the cover. Even if there wasn't 1 & its not leaking, it wouldn't have any effect on the pumping circuit.
> So it'll pump & stop.. that tells me your running out of fuel somewhere..
> & I'll bet money its at that stupid filter head..
> OR u said u took the transfer pump regulator apart to clean the filter.??
> ...


Good evening,
Battery charged; finally checking out the side main leak off valve:
Disconnected the pipe between the main leakoff side valve and fuel filter. Plugged the top end as it was draining the tank :-( 
The bottom end (from the pump) had a slow drip every couple of seconds.
Bled the filter then turned over the starter till I got big streams of fuel shooting out of the pump body bleed screw. Closed the bleed screw.
Turned over the starter - got a few decent shots of fuel, but only to the frontmost injector line. Then it stopped. But quite a bit of fuel squirts out of the main leakoff pipe when the starter is turning. When the starter isn't turning, back to the slow drip, drip,...
Hope this helps with your diagnosis PumpGuy, cause I've no idea :-(
Really appreciate your advice on this.
Cheers
JohnL


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

OK.. so the main return IS working.. that's good, atleast that 1 question/problem off the list. BUT WHY is the fuel stopping.??
IT IS possible that the lobe on the cam ring is corroded to the point, that it wont allow that cylinder to fire.?? But I wouldn't think that it would effect the other 2.??
Let me back track a minute>> the injectors are OUT & hanging up in the air, correct?
& u can only get 2 to fire/pop off before it stops pumping completely, correct?
I'm at a lose.. Without going back & rereading 4 pages, have u squirted starting fluid into the engine to MAKE IT RUN yet.?? {with the injectors in the engine}


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

thepumpguysc said:


> OK.. so the main return IS working.. that's good, atleast that 1 question/problem off the list. BUT WHY is the fuel stopping.??
> IT IS possible that the lobe on the cam ring is corroded to the point, that it wont allow that cylinder to fire.?? But I wouldn't think that it would effect the other 2.??
> Let me back track a minute>> the injectors are OUT & hanging up in the air, correct?
> & u can only get 2 to fire/pop off before it stops pumping completely, correct?
> I'm at a lose.. Without going back & rereading 4 pages, have u squirted starting fluid into the engine to MAKE IT RUN yet.?? {with the injectors in the engine}


Thank you for your reply. Here is the current state of play:
- The injectors are removed and currently disconnected as I couldn't get them to pop. Currently concentrating on getting diesel to squirt out of all three injector lines.
- The best result so far has been strong squirts from lines 1 and 2. Then it went back to very occasional drops, which I am getting from all three lines.
- The line from the injector run-offs to the top of the pump is disconnected and plugged.
- The line from the fuel filter to the pump body side return/leak off is pulled and plugged on fuel filter side.
- There is a couple of gallons of new diesel in the tank. The fuel lines are bled at the filter head, then pump body bleed screw.
- When I turn over the starter with the pump body bleed screw open an unbroken line of diesel squirts out for a couple of feet for as long as I keep the starter turning.
- The side return from the pump body has a slow leak/drip. When the starter is turned over (with the pump bleed screw closed), the rate of the leak/drip speeds up (presumably this is where the pumped fuel is coming out).

- Starter fluid: The engine will fire up on starter fluid, but stops as soon as I stop spraying (with the injectors in, as you said).

Hope this clarifies things for you. Wish it did for me 
Thank you again for your help with this.
JohnL


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Well, I'm out of ideas.. unless the cam has a smashed lobe or the actual pumping plungers inside the pump are stuck.. & both of those require the pump to be disassembled.. sorry.. we're so close, yet so far..


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

thepumpguysc said:


> Well, I'm out of ideas.. unless the cam has a smashed lobe or the actual pumping plungers inside the pump are stuck.. & both of those require the pump to be disassembled.. sorry.. we're so close, yet so far..


Oh no! I was afraid you were gona say that, PumpGuy. One last thing that I saw on another forum somewhere - is it worth flushing the pump with automatic transmission fluid? Is it possible it might clear something out/ free something up?
Or am I just delaying the inevitable...
Thank you for sticking with me through the pain of this process, I've learned a lot (I think :-0 ).
Maybe I'll take off the pump and start pulling things apart. What have I got to lose?
Cheers
JohnL


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

1 thing that bothers me is> u keep saying, I added a couple more gallons of fuel..
That thing needs to be AT LEAST half full.. put 10 gallons in it & start again..
If your gonna tear it apart, u need a 7135-110 gasket kit.
IF your gonna try the ATF, u need to get the fuel level down past the pumping plungers.
THAT MEANS, shutting off the fuel supply so no fuel can enter the pump & push out the ATF..& removing the side cover temporarily to drain the fuel out..
IF IT WERE MINE & I was gonna try it, I would take off the side cover & the top cover, drain the fuel & put sd cvr. back on & refill it from the top cover. Let it sit aweek or so & drain it back out.
Or say the heck w/ it & pull it down..


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

This sort of pertains to your pump...
Back in the mid 70s Ford donated a bunch of tractors to various high schools and VoTechs.
They were not complete tractors but just the chassis - engine, transmission and rear end.
Many of them were molested by many learning hands and basically ruined but a few were never opened and were a brand new machine.
Over the last 15 years I have owned parts of or complete units from 8 of them.
My 3000 is actually a 3600 and built from one of them.
When I first got it it had been run at some point then shoved into a corner and left there for many years..
When I first tried to start it I could not get fuel to the injectors no matter what I did.
So finally, out of desperation I hooked a small electric fuel pump to the inlet on the side of the pump and pumped it full of penetrating oil and tried bleeding it.
Still no joy. Frustrated, I let it sit for a few days full of penetrating oil.
When I came back to the project I turned it over and voila I was getting fuel (penetrating oil) out of the injectors.
So I purged all of the penetrating oil out of it as best I could and with the electric fuel pump pumped it full of diesel fuel.
Then I did the normal bleeding and lo, the engine started.
It smoked and stank till it cleared all the penetrating oil out then it cleared up and runs perfectly to this day.
I don't know what the penetrating oil did to it but it worked. So I parted out a couple of 3000s and made a tractor out of it. It is my most used tractor and 9? years later has maybe 600 hours on it.


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Thanks PumpGuy and Ultradog. Ultra, your story inspired me to do some searching for penetrating oil and I came across this article: https://www.engineeringforchange.org/news/how-to-make-penetrating-oil/
It seems Automatic Transmission Fluid + 30% acetone makes a penetrating oil that beats even the venerable WD40!
I shall be filling the CAV pump with this concoction tomorrow and I'll be reporting back to this forum in a weeks time as to its efficacity (or not).
Love the tractor pic Ultradog, maybe one day mine'll look like that 
Merci beaucoup
JohnL


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Watch, as that acetone is quite flammable!


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

1 thing that "MIGHT" help u out is.. after letting the concoction sit up for awhile, remove one of the outlet pipes from the pump & while turning the engine over by hand, blow some compressed air INTO the outlet on the head..
The reasoning behind that is> the air will enter the pumping circuit & force the pumping plungers apart.. allowing them to break free..
Theres "one guy" who posts that all the time on these threads but I've never tried it.. simply because I KNOW HOW to tear 1 down, clean it & put it back together properly..
Good luck & let us know how u make out.. TPG


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

I do not think it is a good idea to have the ATF/acetone mixture inside the pump. The acetone will attack the rubber seals.

The two ingredients do not blend. When you use it as a penetrant, you need to shake the mixture and make an emulsion of the two, before use. When at rest, the two parts divide.
That means that if you put the mixture into the pump, you will after a while have 70% ATF at the bottom and 30% pure acetone on top of it. So even if it is only a third acetone, the seals will be marinated in 100% acetone, and you will probably ruin the inlet plastic filter. Apart from that, the acetone will not be acting on the lower parts of the pump, where you want it. 

I would make a mixture of ATF, Kerosene and Turpentine. 1 part each. Heat the container to body temperature before pouring the mixture into the pump. Give the pump some heat with a heat gun once a day and turn the engine by hand slowly a couple of turns.


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Hacke said:


> I do not think it is a good idea to have the ATF/acetone mixture inside the pump. The acetone will attack the rubber seals.
> 
> The two ingredients do not blend. When you use it as a penetrant, you need to shake the mixture and make an emulsion of the two, before use. When at rest, the two parts divide.
> That means that if you put the mixture into the pump, you will after a while have 70% ATF at the bottom and 30% pure acetone on top of it. So even if it is only a third acetone, the seals will be marinated in 100% acetone, and you will probably ruin the inlet plastic filter. Apart from that, the acetone will not be acting on the lower parts of the pump, where you want it.
> ...


Thanks Hacke, I'll definitely be leaving out the acetone, then. Good job I didn't do an early start this morning


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Midweek update: been doing a daily hand rotate of the engine and top up of the pump fuel inlet with ATF.
Bashed all the skin off my knuckles turning the engine by hand, so I thought wtf, let's give it a few seconds of starter. So I did.
Then ATF started dripping on to the floor out of the pump. Thought I'd messed up the gasket and/or top nuts/ washers (again), but no. Then I saw ATF was dripping down onto the pump from the cylinder head (the fuel lines are still open). Turned over the engine again, and sure enough, ATF is shooting out of _all three_ fuel lines  big shots  
However, play was halted due to lack of light. I'll let the ATF soak continue overnight, then tomorrow drain out the ATF, fill up with diesel (just bought another 5 gallons, PumpGuy!) then see if I can get those injectors a-poppin...
Cheers
JohnL


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

hopefully you may get your pump working.


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Fingers crossed.

If I got things right, you did not inspect the inlet filter?
I would do that before the (hopefully) last bleeding and cranking.

Remove the inlet line from the pump.

Loosen the nut were the inlet was, do not remove (It is easier to loosen it with the end plate on the pump.).

Remove the four screws holding the end plate.

Remove the end plate, watch the seal.

Take the end plate to the kitchen table.

Pour a glass of Pernod.

Now you can take the thing apart in a more comfortable environment.

https://injectionpumps.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/DPA-DPS-End-Plate-Assembly.jpg


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

I always tell people to do it on the engine.. because the end plate screws need to be torqued & not a lot of people have "inch lb" torque wrenches..
Remove the big inlet nut.. & w/ a pair of needle nose pliers, remove the big spring.
& w/a small screwdriver, HOLD DOWN THE GUTS.
& w/ a 90* scribe, reach in & grab the filter & pull straight up, WHILE HOLDING DOWN THE CENTER PIECES..
IF the center pieces come up, you'll probably have to take it off to reassemble.
ANYTHING is worth a "try" at this point..LOL


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Torque specs in attached pdf.


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

So today I pulled the end plate off, took it to the kitchen table and pulled it apart. There was all manner of gunk in the filter and (worryingly) a few metal shards. Curiously, there was no transfer pressure adjuster (#193 on diagram) in there, but something which looked like the bottom part of it?
Anyhow, reassembled the pump and connected the injectors. Filled the tank. Turned over the starter. All three injectors were popping away, like heavenly music, my eyes misted - probably the diesel vapour :-0
Reattached the injectors and the plumbing.
Used serious preheating.
Turned over the engine, fired quite a few times, felt it was right on the brink of starting.
But then the battery got tired. And light ran out.
It feels like we're almost there...
Thank you for the information and sugestions Hacke and PumpGuy and for sticking with me through this process.
A demain
JohnL
I knew I'd forgotten something, damn! The Pernod! I'll give it a go now...
Cheers


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Good news!

I remember I was a bit confused over the parts in the end plate. There are different diagrams in the manual, see the one I have attached. I think that one looks like yours?
I guess it has something to do with what advance device the pump is equipped with. Pumpguy, help!

One thing that came to mind: Air (my head is full of it)
Make sure you get clean air into the engine at startup.
Have you checked the air hose, filter wool and the oil bowl?


Sad to hear about the Pernod mishap, hope you will get it sorted.


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Thanks for that, Hacke, that diagram matches the contents of my CAV end plate. So some end plates are different to others; Belgian ones, obviously. I'd spent at least a couple of hours crawling about scratching in the dust and filth and waving a magnet around, convinced I'd somehow dropped the pressure transfer adjuster, or it'd popped out somehow over the course of the last few weeks. No worries.
Waiting for the battery to trickle charge :-(
Perhaps it's time to search for a heavy-duty one.
Thanks again.
JohnL
There was no Pernod solution in the workshop, but I substituted with 8 parts Coreff Breton beer, which was equally efficatious


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

IDK why they changed the pressure adjuster?? production maybe..
instead of shutting down the test stand & changing a "plug", its easier to adjust it while running..?? Anyway, just put the short end IN the sleeve.. I get them all the time where the customer drove the big end into the sleeve..{not right.}
I never thought about the screen being clogged, sorry..
I hope she fires up for ya.. TPG


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

JohnEl said:


> Thanks for that, Hacke, that diagram matches the contents of my CAV end plate. So some end plates are different to others; Belgian ones, obviously. I'd spent at least a couple of hours crawling about scratching in the dust and filth and waving a magnet around, convinced I'd somehow dropped the pressure transfer adjuster, or it'd popped out somehow over the course of the last few weeks. No worries.
> Waiting for the battery to trickle charge :-(
> Perhaps it's time to search for a heavy-duty one.
> Thanks again.
> ...


John,
I haven't posted much but have been following your progress very closely. I can't remember a thread/tractor that I have been so heavily "invested" in the outcome. Like a great novel with lots of twists to the plot it has been an ongoing good read.
Anyway, please continue to keep us apprised of your progress on this. I have a good feeling and good hopes that it's going to start soon.
If it does I shall toast your success with a good pale ale.
Jerry


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Out of the poulailler into the crisp breton evening, on an inaugural tour of the garden: it's JohnL and Valentina the tractor (she was made on Feb 14 1966 after all  ).
Another big thank you to PumpGuy for sharing your expertise, for keeping me going through this thread, well beyond my comfort zone and sticking with me to the end. Merci beaucoup.
Crack open the pale ales Jerry/Ultradog - thanks for the penetrating-oil-in-the-pump tip and messages of encouragement.
Thanks Hacke especially for the end plate process and the timely reminder not to trash my pump seals with acetone!
And thank you to everybody else who has contributed to getting me this far with your words of wisdom and support. It really meant a lot to me.
It's not over yet though. Generator warning on all the time probably means I need a new one. And she's dripping water at an alarming rate and the temperature's rising way too high, must look at the pump/ thermostat/ leaks... Then I can start to look at the hydraulics and work out why the 3 point is held up with a length of rope... And as for the cosmetics...
But that's all for another day. 
Cheers
JohnL


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Well done!
When you get the engine running it turns from a heap of metal into a tractor. Even if it has it flaws, it is alive.

Thank you, John. It has been interesting and informative. Not many take their time to document the steps they are going through like you do. Not only is it fun to follow in real time, it will educate people that later on will read the postings. I sincerely hope you will have the time and effort to continue, when it comes to further actions.

My first idea about the charging is that this lady has been sitting for a while and the generator needs polarizing. It means that you give it a shock to tell it what way the magnetizing current is supposed to go. It may be that easy, it may be stuck brushes, it may be a tired regulator, it may be....now, hold on and try the polarizing.

I have attached an instruction, you should see (and hear) a tiny spark and the work is done.

Edit:
***
I added a figure to clarify.
***


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

JohnEl said:


> Out of the poulailler into the crisp breton evening, on an inaugural tour of the garden: it's JohnL and Valentina the tractor (she was made on Feb 14 1966 after all  ).
> Another big thank you to PumpGuy for sharing your expertise, for keeping me going through this thread, well beyond my comfort zone and sticking with me to the end. Merci beaucoup.
> Crack open the pale ales Jerry/Ultradog - thanks for the penetrating-oil-in-the-pump tip and messages of encouragement.
> Thanks Hacke especially for the end plate process and the timely reminder not to trash my pump seals with acetone!
> ...


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Postscript:
After a couple of laps of the garden playing at tractor (OK, so maybe a few dozen laps) I thought maybe it was time to put Valentina to work. I managed to find a 1.8m "3pt Benne" (what's that in English? a bin?) for €170, hooked her up, et voila, a 40hp wheelbarrow  Makes carrying back the logs (up a steep, steep hill) a little easier  Trying to find a used gyrobroyeur (horizontal rotary mower attachment) then I can do more useful stuff. Then a log-splitter, maybe...
Cheers
J


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

great looking dog JohnEl.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

I like the one that looks like a coal miner laying on the mat as well!


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## Jeepster04 (Mar 26, 2019)

My, that is a rather tall dog! 

That wheel barrow is fantastic! I need to find one of those! 

Glad you got the tractor going. I really enjoy reading threads such as this; when I reach the end of the thread idk what to do!


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## JohnEl (Nov 22, 2018)

Because there are never enough doggie pictures on the internet:








Napoleon's the great dane, Madonna is the Tervueren/Coal Miner. Hopefully this pair'll keep thieving fingers away from my tractor


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## 3 point (Sep 20, 2017)

Well here it is 2 yrs later (1/21) and just found/read the whole post and how timely it is,
I have a 3600 in the near same condition and plan on starting it after its been setting 10 + yrs, the article is a real help in my attempt to do the same, hopefully my luck will be as good as your outcome was. Thanks....Great write up!

Sent from my SM-T387V using Tapatalk


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## Ed Williams (Jun 13, 2019)

Step #1 is to get the Owners and Service manuals from this site. A Parts manual is also recommended.


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## Ed Williams (Jun 13, 2019)

Nice dogs. They should provide adequate theft protection. The next best according to a recent sales idiot is an ADT sign in the yard. He got mad enough to leave in a huff when I asked if I could just purchase the sigh instead of hus $2000 system as I already have a 100 pound Rotweiller roaming the yard. When asked by some unwsnted visitors at the gate if the dog bites. I always reply that she bites me and I feed her.


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