# What was the point of propane?



## Waldershrek

A lot of older tractors were offered in diesel, gas and LP motors. What in gods name was the benefit of using propane in a tractor? I can't imagine it was any easier to procure. It couldn't have made that much more power could it?


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## rocket

During war, diesel and petrol (gas) would have been hard to procure. Propane possibly wasn't widely used for the war, so was in better supply at home.

That's my guess, anyhow.

Cheers


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## pogobill

Pretty sure you are correct rocket


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## Waldershrek

Hmmmmm.........I hadn't thought of that, sounds reasonable.


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## grnspot110

In the areas where propane was produced in the 50's -70's, it was a very cheap fuel. In our area, north MO, were saw only a very few propane tractors. ~~ grnspot


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## 53Superm

Hp between gas and propane would be close. Propane has a much cleaner burn though Tear into a propane tractor with 10000 hrs and it'll look as clean as it was when it left the factory.


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## Waldershrek

53Superm said:


> Tear into a propane tractor with 10000 hrs and it'll look as clean as it was when it left the factory.


I have heard that before. 

Wow I just looked at Nebraska tractor tests and the LP version burned 10.4 gallons per hour for pto use compared with 6.4 for diesel and 8.4 for gasoline 

That would mean about 3 hours of work for propane, 4 for gas and 7 for diesel before having to refuel.


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## 53Superm

Lp or gasoline on anything above 50 hp is always gonna be inefficient. But it would have been cheaper per gallon. What tractor was that data referring to? 806? Maybe a 4020? Sounds like a bigger tractor. Pretty Heavy usage for pto work. I'd limit that tractor to tillage and find something smaller and more efficient for pto work.


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## Waldershrek

Ha sorry I guess I left that part out......that data was for a 4020


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## farmertim

Propane is a by-product of gasoline so it was promoted during WW 2 as an alternative Diesel is promoted here in Oz because of the available horsepower for lower fuel consumption.


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## stickerpicker

Waldershrek said:


> A lot of older tractors were offered in diesel, gas and LP motors. What in gods name was the benefit of using propane in a tractor? I can't imagine it was any easier to procure. It couldn't have made that much more power could it?


****************************************************************
Propane has less BTU value than gasoline but in the 1950s you could fill your tractor tank with propane for 3 cents/gallon while gasoline was around 18 cents. It was a no brainer.

http://www.propanecouncil.org/what-is-propane/history/


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## Mickey

Waldershrek said:


> I have heard that before.
> 
> Wow I just looked at Nebraska tractor tests and the *LP version burned 10.4 gallons per hour for pto use compared with 6.4 for diesel and 8.4 for gasoline*
> 
> That would mean about 3 hours of work for propane, 4 for gas and 7 for diesel before having to refuel.


Just simple math. Energy content is about 94k btu's/gal for propane, gas about 123k btus/gal and diesel about 135k btu's/gal.


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## bontai Joe

And propane has more BTUs than natural gas. I spec out industrial gas furnaces where I work, and the piping, valves, etc all has to be quite a bit bigger for natural gas vs. propane. In my neck of the woods, natural gas is typically delivered to a farm or industrial site by pipeline. Propane typically in my area gets delivered by truck and so is more expensive than natural gas, but still historically cheaper than gasoline per BTUs bought until maybe the 1980s or 1990s.


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## Waldershrek

Mickey said:


> Just simple math. Energy content is about 94k btu's/gal for propane, gas about 123k btus/gal and diesel about 135k btu's/gal.


Well don't go getting all mathematical on me!


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## Mickey

Waldershrek said:


> Well don't go getting all mathematical on me!


Hey, you're asking the questions and being surprised at the different use rates. I mearly mentioned why.


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## Kman

Waldershrek said:


> Well don't go getting all mathematical on me!





Mickey said:


> Hey, you're asking the questions and being surprised at the different use rates. I mearly mentioned why.


It's all about the math! Some things are constant, math is one of them.


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## farmertim

So is my wife's snoring!!!


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## Woodchuck

Not only does LP burn much cleaner than other fuels, but it is stable and does not create varnish or get moisture while stored, as there is no vent hole in a fuel cap. It is under pressure at all times. I worked at an alfalfa dehydrating mill in 1966 and their tractors were LP and oil, spark plugs, etc. stayed very clean.


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## jhngardner367

Because LP was a cleaner-burning fuel,it could be used in factories,without as much carbon-dioxide emissions.
Electric lift trucks,etc,were ok,but lacked the carrying capacity that combustion engine units had,since any use of the hydro,etc,would drain the batteries quicker.
By using ventilator systems,they could run the LP units,and not have to stop to recharge the large batteries. However, one drawback to the LP units was that the regulators iced up easily,so a "preheater" had to be used to get the propane to flow,until the engine reached a certain temp.
If the cooling system was low/empty,the unit wouldn't run...even in warm weather.
I spent many an hour in the freezing cold,working on lift trucks that had coolant leaks,etc. The regulators would become solid blocks of frost!


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## foz682

A lot of the rinks around my area use old LP powered tractors for resurfacing the ice. Seem to work well, certainly don't notice emissions like you would with a diesel.


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## ErnieS

From WW II through the late 60's, a lot of rural folk used propane for cooking and heating, so a storage tank was pretty common. 
One fuel for 3 tasks seems logical, especially if it's cheap.


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## criswelg

*I was a kid back then!*



stickerpicker said:


> ****************************************************************
> Propane has less BTU value than gasoline but in the 1950s you could fill your tractor tank with propane for 3 cents/gallon while gasoline was around 18 cents. It was a no brainer.
> 
> http://www.propanecouncil.org/what-is-propane/history/


:usa:
I can remember farmers having a big propane tank on wheels. They just drug it out to the field and would roll out a hose like we do diesel now and fill the tractors and trucks when we were harvesing rice. I just thought it was normal in those days. I really didn't think it was anything other than usual. I am guessing the propane tank on wheels was about 1 to 2 K gallons.


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## country Gent

53superm, you hit the nail. Few years back I picked up a 300 utility lpg grove tractor out of the scrap row at a auction. Got it fired up with a 20 lb tank. If it was new it would not have run any better. In the past working in a automotive machine shop, have seen many engines with like new internals after many hours on lpg.


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## stickerpicker

criswelg said:


> :usa:
> I can remember farmers having a big propane tank on wheels. They just drug it out to the field and would roll out a hose like we do diesel now and fill the tractors and trucks when we were harvesing rice. I just thought it was normal in those days. I really didn't think it was anything other than usual. I am guessing the propane tank on wheels was about 1 to 2 K gallons.


I have in my lifetime put thousands of gallons of propane in tractors and combines using the method you describe. A tank mounted on an old 4 wheel trailer running gear was popular but one just doesn't want to put himself in a position that he needs to back a 4 wheel trailer. Pretty much spells disaster. The popular size tanks here were 250 gal. and on occasion a 500 gal.

Another use for propane on the farm was to air tires. In reality I suppose that would be to gas tires, literally.

And the time when my little nephews got sand worms in their feet from going bare foot a trip to the propane tank in the middle of a summer night quelled the itch and irritation. 

You see, I would set them on the tank and squirt their little feet bottoms with liquid propane from the liquid fill line. Two 1 second bursts usually did the trick so they could sleep the remainder of the night.


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## criswelg

*Things I heard of guys doing w/propane*



stickerpicker said:


> I have in my lifetime put thousands of gallons of propane in tractors and combines using the method you describe. A tank mounted on an old 4 wheel trailer running gear was popular but one just doesn't want to put himself in a position that he needs to back a 4 wheel trailer. Pretty much spells disaster. The popular size tanks here were 250 gal. and on occasion a 500 gal.
> 
> Another use for propane on the farm was to air tires. In reality I suppose that would be to gas tires, literally.
> 
> And the time when my little nephews got sand worms in their feet from going bare foot a trip to the propane tank in the middle of a summer night quelled the itch and irritation
> You see, I would set them on the tank and squirt their little feet bottoms with liquid propane from the liquid fill line. Two 1 second bursts usually did the trick so they could sleep the remainder of the night.


:usa:
I heard of guys airing up a repaired tire in the field by squirting a little propane in the broke down tire and throwing a match into it. BAM and the tire would instantly be back on the rim and mostly aired up.


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## ddossey

Propane used to be VERY cheap. Most of the cost was in transportation as the fuel itself was basically a by-product. During the gas "shortage" of the late 70's I converted our Olds 98 to burn propane as well as gasoline. We could always find propane on the highway in rural areas even when gasoline was difficult. By this time, the price was more or less comparable to gasoline -- about 85-90% of the cost for 85-90% the mileage. At the time the advantage was availability (non-rationed) and clean burn. That tank sure took a lot of the trunk space, though. Good experience for the time, but not so practical or necessary now.


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## ddossey

A friend in the business told me that for a long time propane was essentially a waste product and that all the expense of it was in transportation. I am not a petroleum guy and don't know if that is exactly true or not. I DO know that it used to be very cheap. In the early late 70's when gas was rationed I converted one of my cars to run on dual propane/gasolene just in order to avoid the lines and hassle of getting gasoline. Worked great and even saved a little fuel expense -- not counting the conversion cost, which at the time was only a few hundred dollars. It got about 90% the mileage of gasoline at 80% of the cost. No big down side except a little harder to get than gasoline. Interestingly, out on the highway where you were concerned about finding fuel was the easiest. The more of a farm/ranch area you were in the more likely to find fuel easily.


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## DonCam

ddossey said:


> A friend in the business told me that for a long time propane was essentially a waste product and that all the expense of it was in transportation. I am not a petroleum guy and don't know if that is exactly true or not. I DO know that it used to be very cheap. .


True statement. Back then there wasn't much of a use for it in the chemical industry. Now it is fed to the olefins crackers to be converted to propylene a very useful chemical. Propylene is made in the crackers even if no propane is fed so years ago it was just flared until some chemists created some very useful chemicals from propylene. Bacially most chemicals. plastics and such start out with either an ethylene or propylene molecule.


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## Cheyenne

Waldershrek said:


> A lot of older tractors were offered in diesel, gas and LP motors. What in gods name was the benefit of using propane in a tractor? I can't imagine it was any easier to procure. It couldn't have made that much more power could it?


Very simple, gas and diesel were used for the war, both of them have a shelf life of 6 to 9 months, and gasoline was rationed. LP has an indefenite shelf like and can be stored for years and nevr goes bad, it can also fuel the heating in the house, stove, a propane refrigerator and what ever propane device you want. Propane now costs less and is more environmentally friendly, We should return to propane, much better than diesel!


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