# 1964 Ford 4000 Diesel Runs rich



## bgpson2 (Jan 9, 2017)

My 1964 Ford 4000 4 cylinder diesel smokes a lot on start up and clears some as it warms up. Still smells like raw fuel after it warms up and runs rough. So far 3 different people have worked on it and no one can figure it out. The timing is set around 18-20 degrees, the injector pump has been rebuilt twice by a Roosa Master certified shop, the injectors are rebuilt and spray good, the compression is 380 PSI on all cylinders.

Somebody in the tractor rental business swears it's timing, so any suggestions would be welcome!

Thanks in advance
bgpnpson2


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

First order of business is that your pump is not properly timed. Follow the instructions here that were posted by Sixbales some time ago: http://www.tractorforum.com/f203/1962-ford-4000-industrial-diesel-timing-problem-26035/

If that does not solve the problem, then you need to remove the front timing cover and align the timing marks on all three of the gears. This is time consuming and will require quite a number of engine revolutions to get all three to align. Once they are properly aligned, then set the pump timing to the correct and absolute 23 degrees as outlined in Sixbales' post.

Sounds as if your Roosa Master pump was timed to three cylinder diesel specifications, at 19 or so degrees. That will not work on the four cylinder.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

You didn't say what color the smoke is..
1 other thing to check is, if it has a thermostart on it.. it might be faulty & leaking fuel into the intake.. I've seen it 1000 x..
Just unscrew it & start the engine to see if it dripping..
You didn't say weather it has a CAV or a Simms pump or a Roosa Master.


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## rhino (Jan 9, 2017)

Are you running it on home heating fuel?:usa:


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## bgpson2 (Jan 9, 2017)

Thanks for all the fast responses! It is running on diesel fuel and it is a Roosa Master pump. The timing has been tried at 23 deg. with little change. The thermostat leaking fuel sounds weird, but we will check it out.
This engine was running fine until the pump seal leaked fuel into the crankcase while sitting over the winter last year. that's when the pump was originally pulled for a rebuild.
Can the timing on the front gears change if the engine has not been apart? It is primarily used for bush hogging and it has hit the occasional stump, which stalled the engine.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

I think you may have misunderstood me.. I typed, thermoSTART.. I don't think Roosa systems ran that.. its a line that goes from the pump to the intake manifold and is activated by the key switch to a "burner" that ignites the fuel, straight into the intake manifold..
CAV ran those systems on the fords.. and they fail all the time..
Its possible you sheared a key on one of your gears and the timing as slipped slightly after hitting the stump.
You can get 5* timing difference from moving/twisting the pump?? 18-23*?? 
STILL no smoke color.. White is timing, Blue is engine oil, Black is air, timing or over fueled.


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## bgpson2 (Jan 9, 2017)

*64 Ford 4000 diesel runs rich*

Got the ford 4000 diesel back from the injection pump shop with no improvements. Took off the timing cover today and the timing marks for the crankshaft and cam line up good.
However the camshaft was riding forward 1/8" and there are circular scrape marks on the 
inside of the timing cover where the camshaft was touching. I tapped the camshaft back an 1/8" and now it's flush with the crankshaft gear(yes it will move forward again if pulled). Is the camshaft supposed to have that kind of slack? What could be wrong?


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Behind the cam gear is a keeper that serves two functions, holds the cam from sliding forward, and the cam gear then locks it in place so that it will not slide backwards either.

My guess is the keeper is gone. Should be a two hole steel plate with machined faces on both sides behind the cam gear. 

Remove the cam gear and you will see what I mean. Likely will see two bolt holes with missing bolts and no keeper. Probably was misplaced and left out during a rebuild.

The cam sliding forward is what is throwing your timing off causing the problem.


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## billycalexander (Apr 28, 2017)

just an update, i bought this tractor about a year ago and haven't done much to it, but hope to in the next few months. i have a video of it running that i will try to post.


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## billycalexander (Apr 28, 2017)

So this is my second post, trying to get to three so i can post video


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## billycalexander (Apr 28, 2017)

3rd post is a charm


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## billycalexander (Apr 28, 2017)

test


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## billycalexander (Apr 28, 2017)

video


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## billycalexander (Apr 28, 2017)

couldn't ever get video to upload but i uploaded to you tube, this is a video of the rough running


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

I have no sound but that's a fair amount of smoke. That's about as bad as my John Deere 316 smoked before I traded it off for my Kubota BX.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

What have you checked based on the earlier recommendations to a similar problem outlined in this post?


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Billy, If that's a diesel and depending on what inj. pump it has on it, I would suspect the pump is on 180* out of time?? THATS A LOT of white smoke !!!! Does it take A LONG TIME to start??
Have u tried loosening up the injector lines 1 at a time to see if u could narrow it down to 1 cylinder?? Kinda like pulling a spark plug wire on a gas motor to find a skip/miss.


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## bbirder (Feb 26, 2006)

RC is correct. Definitely a timing issue.


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## billycalexander (Apr 28, 2017)

so i'm embarrased to say i haven't done alot to it, it wouldn't start without a small shot of starting fluid but would then run all day with that much smoke, i tried to adjust timing on the roosamaster pump which was rebuilt by a certified roosamaster pump repairman


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

It may be low compression if the fueling system is in good condition and properly timed, and the starting assist, if equipped, is working correctly. A compression test may well be needed to determine condition of the engine.

It could be one or more defective injectors too. Excessive use of ether (starting fluid) will damage the injector tips and lead to unburned fuel, missing, and loss of power. Usually if that is the problem you will get a blast of black smoke at start up, then that turns to massive amounts of white smoke as the damaged injector continues to drool fuel after the exhaust valves open.


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## billycalexander (Apr 28, 2017)

Thank you all for yore replies, i’ve Met an older ford tractor mechanic that I plan to take it to for his help. I’ve copied and pasted what has been done to it before I bought it.

My 1964 Ford 4000 4 cylinder diesel smokes a lot on start up and clears some as it warms up. Still smells like raw fuel after it warms up and runs rough. So far 3 different people have worked on it and no one can figure it out. The timing is set around 18-20 degrees, the injector pump has been rebuilt twice by a Roosa Master certified shop, the injectors are rebuilt and spray good, the compression is 380 PSI on all cylinders.

Somebody in the tractor rental business swears it's timing, so any suggestions would be welcome!

Thanks in advance
bgpnpson2

And this too:
Thanks for all the fast responses! It is running on diesel fuel and it is a Roosa Master pump. The timing has been tried at 23 deg. with little change. The thermostat leaking fuel sounds weird, but we will check it out.
This engine was running fine until the pump seal leaked fuel into the crankcase while sitting over the winter last year. that's when the pump was originally pulled for a rebuild.
Can the timing on the front gears change if the engine has not been apart? It is primarily used for bush hogging and it has hit the occasional stump, which stalled the engine.


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## bbirder (Feb 26, 2006)

Also reference post #2. Did you check to see if the technician timed the pump for three cyl or 4cyl. This would definetly make a difference. Besides smoke, engine sounds like it firing out of sequence.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

You did drain the contaminated oil and put in the proper new oil and filter?

If so, and the pump and injectors are good, you are out exactly 180 degrees on your static timing. Set all your static timing marks, reinstall the pump, and I bet you find the problem.

And, no bumping a stump will not change the timing. That would only be from installation error.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Being 180* out of time is easy to check but requires some work..
2 different methods..1method> pull the valve cover & find compression stroke #1 cyl..
Pull the side cover window on the inj. pump & look for the 2 lines to match-up..
Method #2.. on the injection pump DRIVE SHAFT there is a DOT.. INSIDE the pump is a DOT.. The pump must be installed, DOT TO DOT.. {requires the pump to come off to "SEE"}.. IF in fact the "dots" are off.. reach INSIDE the pump{long screwdriver} & rotate the piece w/ the dot to match the engine dot..
Good luck.


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## bbirder (Feb 26, 2006)

I guess he quit posting after getting it running.


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## billycalexander (Apr 28, 2017)

Sorry but I haven’t worked on it yet I have an 8n I bought that I’m working right now. I’ll post when I start working on the 4000


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## bbirder (Feb 26, 2006)

Good to hear from you. Too often members get their equipment running and leave us in suspense.


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