# new here and looking for help



## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

hey guys im new here and from vermont.. i need some help if someone can help please feel free to point me in the right direction..

last summer i bought an older (92) craftsman 2 18hp 42" riding mower.. it ran great and then one day it started to blow fuses when trying to start it.. i then tried to start it by jumping it directly to the starter and it would fire right up.. i tried using bigger fuses, i checked for any bad wires, even had the tractor looked at by my buddy who does mobile repairs for lawn and garden and small engines. it seemed to go away once we messed with the ground wire.. but then it started doing it again. i ended up giving it away to another friend of mine and he messed with it a lil but couldnt get it. so he has been doing like i did and jumping it directly to the starter. i will be getting this mower back from him as he got a new one, and i really want to fix this issue.. can anyone chime in, has anyone had any similar problems like this? any info would help.. where should i start and how could i fix this without spending too much money?


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## ftorleans1 (Jul 12, 2009)

Welcome. First off, PLEASE, PLEASE, don't use heavier fuses. You could end up with an electrical fire. Your tractor should have several safety switches which prevent it from starting if it is not in Neutral with the brake pedal depressed and if the mower deck is engaged. Power from the start switch runs through these wires before going to the starting solenoid. If you have a bare, chaffed wire, and it touches any metal, it will short the system out. Also, If the safety switches have gone bad on the inside, sometimes they will do the same as a bare wire. I would start by checking all of these safety switch wires. They are usaully all WHITE wires. The safety switches are just that, a switch which allows or prevents power from running through them. Also, have you checked the power wire which runs from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid?


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

Thanks for the reply. First off i will add that i always have the clutch/brake pedal all the way down and locked in place with the tractor in neutral. And i have sorta checked the wiring and it all looks good no chaffed wires or frayed at all. I will now thT u mentioned the white wires go and check these. Im new to electrical trouble shooting but i can learn. I just need to look more into it. This tractor is in mint condition though. Like its always been stored indoors. No rust anywhere and when it starts it runs like a beauty. So it is well worth it to me to invest into it. I apreciate the help. Anything else would be greatly apreciated.


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## stickerpicker (Sep 16, 2003)

Having a wiring schematic would sure help but if you don't have one for your tractor you might try* :* , beginning at the solenoid and working backwards , unplugging each low amp switch in the cranking circuit , including the crank side of the ignition switch , and testing to see if the fuse is blown after each is disconnected and the key switch turned to start.


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## Thomas (Nov 1, 2006)

By chance does it have seat saftey sensor?


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

Thomas said:


> By chance does it have seat saftey sensor?


Yup it does.


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## Thomas (Nov 1, 2006)

Have you check/by pass see if problem?
Iknow you mention you check the ground,for some reason sounds more like Pos or Neg not making good connection.


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

Yeah we tried moving the ground wire around snd cleaning it really good. It stopped doimg it dor a while but came back. Maybe move the ground wire to snother location? Its grounded to the engine block.


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## ftorleans1 (Jul 12, 2009)

Hi Shizcol,
If I understood you original thread, You are blowing fuses. A ground wire will not cause this. You have a hot wire or switch going to ground. If a visual check of your safety switches and wiring turns up nothing obvious, You will need to perform an ohm check of the wires leading to and from the safety switches. Also, VERY IMPORTANT, Ohm check the safety switches to see if when you press the safety switch button in, you dont have continuity between the body of the switch and the terminals going in and out of that switch. If you do, the insulator within that switch has gone bad and the current is going straight to ground. Don't forget to ohm the ignition switch as well. As for grounds, ignition switches must have a good ground connection in order to ground out the ignition system on the engine. If you ever come across an engine which will not shut off when the ignition switch is turned to stop, you have lost the ground connection from the switch back to the engine block and battery for electric start models. Basically, You should have two grounds, one for the chassis, one for the engine block. If it becomes frustrating, walk away from the tractor and let your mind clear up some and then go back and try again. You have a nice tractor and your problem is most likely a simple one.


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

Thanks. Another thing i was wondering is if i cant find the problem, is there a way to install a bypass start button? I had a car that had a bad ignition switch and i installed one of these push buttons and i just hooked it up directly to the starter and it would work. Can i do this? Or is this something that will harm my starter or any other electricals? Is there a way to bypass the safety switches?


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## stickerpicker (Sep 16, 2003)

shizcol said:


> Thanks. Another thing i was wondering is if i cant find the problem, is there a way to install a bypass start button?


Sure. Wire to energize the starter solenoid.

http://www.karlssonrobotics.com/car...y-on-off-on/?gclid=CNOH0Or4mLcCFU4S7AodYFoAxw


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

does anyone know how i can wire it up? i remember doing it to a car i had back in the day but i dont remember how exactly i did it.. can i just put the pos and neg wires from the switch directly to the pos and neg on the starter? or do i have to have other wires ? i think i remember just using 2 wires to the starter from the switch


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

Well today i got the craftsman delivered to me, i messed with it a little bit and come find it, now theres no spark on either cylinder. So im wondering if maybe i have a bad ground some where. No power goig to the starter at all from the battery, but if i put jumpers to the battery and directly to starter it turns over. I took both plugs out and checked for fire and nothing. Would the solonoid have anything to so with this? I wouldnt think so. I was wondering if i should just buy a new starter, solonoid, and coil if maybe it would fix anything. Im also goig to try to move the grounds to a different position. Where should i put the grounds?


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## ftorleans1 (Jul 12, 2009)

Hey shizcol, Have to say, This has become very interesting.... If you have no spark, a faulty ground at the ignition switch may be your problem. I say this since several folks have put their hands into this starter problem. As for the starter solenoid causing no spark, NOT POSSIBLE. Forget about the solenoid. Do not order any parts for the moment. If the ignition coil checks out ok, you may have something going wrong at the starter switch or ( and this is very big) someone may have grounded the black ground wire which goes from the engine back to the ignition switch. This black wire is what grounds out the ignition system when you turn the key to the "off" position. If this black wire is grounding out anywhere, you will "NEVER" have spark ever again. As for the starter "push button" switch, These are very easy to install however, You "MUST" follow several safety steps. First and most important, Install a fusible link as close to the battery as possible. This is your safegaurd against an electrical fire. But remember to "NEVER" install a fuse which is designed for heavier gauge wire than what is used in the entire starter system. In other words, If the lightest gauge wire used is 16 gauge, The fuse to be installed in the fuse holder "MUST" burn through before that 16 gauge wire would start to melt. You would run the fused wire from the battery to the starter switch, and run your other wire from the starter switch to the "Start" terminal of the starter solenoid. I would also add a heavy duty flip switch( the metal cased, not plastic) before the push button switch. This would enable you to kill the start system in the event your push button switch gets stuck in the depressed position. As with doing anything like this, You render the tractors safety features inoperable. Keep children and incompetent adults away from the tractor if you go this route. Any liability would be on you. Not the tractor manufacturer


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## stickerpicker (Sep 16, 2003)

The ignition key must be in the run position to have spark at the plugs.


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

Wow lol thanks for the replies. I had the key on the "on " position when trying to check for spark. I will take a better look at it tomorrow morning and see what i can find. How can i check to see if the coil is bad? Im thinking i have a bad ground wire somewere or a bad key switch i will not give up on this old girl as i am pretty connected to it. Im very thankful to hae you guys


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## stickerpicker (Sep 16, 2003)

Somewhere on the engine there will be a wire from the magneto ( coil ) that will look something like this one pictured. Keep an open mind with this as yours may not be just like this one. The yellow wire pictured goes to the ignition switch so you have grounding capability to kill spark while in the seat.

If the wire labeled mag ground wire ( pictured ) is un-hooked ( disconnected ) you should have spark at the plugs if that wire is in good condition as it goes under the shroud to the coil. ( not chaffed )


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

Ok so this is my plan.. Tomorrow im going to take the engine cover off and check the coil. I want to clean up ll the grounds and see if i get fire. Should i use sandpaper to clean up the magneto and coil? Im sorry if i seem new at this its just been a long time since i have done this kinda thing. I really apreciate all the help


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

stickerpicker said:


> If the wire labeled mag ground wire ( pictured ) is un-hooked ( disconnected ) you should have spark at the plugs if that wire is in good condition as it goes under the shroud to the coil. ( not chaffed )


 so by me unplugging this wire it will basicaly disable the key switch?


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## stickerpicker (Sep 16, 2003)

shizcol said:


> so by me unplugging this wire it will basicaly disable the key switch?


Yes, and that will disable everything that could cause a no spark condition external to the engine. ie safety switches, ignition switch, wire shorted etc. If you get the engine to start by disconnecting the black wire shown in the picture here are a few ways to kill it. Touch the wire connector back to any metal, choke it to death, pull spark plug wire (s), try to push a tree over, loan it to a neighbor.

NOTE: This will have no effect on the failing to crank problem. Separate issue, different electrical circuit.


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

Ok thanks. I will mess with it when the sun comes up. You guys are great!!!

Ok so i got fire now. All i had to domis clean the flywheel and coil contacts and now it has fire. But its getting tons of fuel in the carb. I can turn it over by jumping it directly from battery to starter but its like the starter isnt turning fast enough to start it on 2 cylinders. I have gone ahead and cleaned all the ground contact areas and moved the ground to s diferent location. Still no power to key. I took the solonoid out and looked at it, cleaned it up and put it back in making sure the grounds were hooked up. Any ideas?

Something tells me i have a bad safety switch. Can i remove these switches or disable them?


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

Post the sears 917.xxxxxx number so one can see if there is a schematic available for it.
It makes troubleshooting much easier, since safety switched can be implemented in various ways.
One simply can chase their tail if they are guessing about the type of circuit you have.


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

917.258492 is the model # 

Serial # 0526925 009275


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

Found a schematic-
Fuse blowing problem-

IF you have a 12V test light, it would be IDEAL for these tests.
We want to determine if the fuse is blowing when the key switch is-
Either ON or CRANK positions.
When in the ON position, the only thing in the circuit is the output from the alternator diode. RED wire to the L terminal of the key switch.

When in the CRANK position, the only thing in the circuit is the wire (and associated safety switches) to the starter solenoid. WHITE wire that comes off the S terminal of the key switch, goes through the clutch/brake switch, then through the attachment switch to the small terminal of the starter solenoid.

Substituting the Test Light for the fuse will save needlessly blowing fuses.

So- IF you can determine what part of the circuit is blowing the fuse, we know where to start looking.

IF the ON circuit, look for the RED wire shorted to ground OR the diode shorted. The diode can be disconnected at the plug coming off the alternator to rule it in/out.

Another possibility is that one of the switches is bad, shorting internally.
These can be tested with the OHM Meter if needed.


Use schematic 989


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

Right now its not blowing fuses because theres no power going from the key switch to the solonoid or starter. Which makes me think its a bad switch somewhere.


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

All you need is power to the solenoid to activate the starter.
Try jumping 12V directly the SMALL terminal on the solenoid where the WHITE wire connects.
IF it cranks, solenoid & starter are good.
The problem then lies between the key switch S terminal, and 2 safety switches I mentioned in the previous post.
A 12V test light would tell where you are/aren't getting power.

Have you looked at the schematic I attached?


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

Yup thanks il look at it when it clears out. Been raining for 2 days here in vt and it sucks lol. Thanks for the info and i will post back soon.


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

ok so i did some work to the tractor over the week. i got fire, then i put a different starter on it which works 100 times better then the one that was on it, i put my battery in it and tried to jump the solonoid and walla!! it fired right up. now im still trying ti figure out whats going on with the ignition.. it works to turn on and turn off the power, but nothing as far as starting it with the key.. my next step is im gonna try a new igniton switch, and go from there.. im just glad i got it running again.. feels good to hear it run..

http://s1238.photobucket.com/user/S...63-5999-0000011C20DD902C_zps4f7ace7f.mp4.html


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

Here's a link to the OM, if you don't have it-
http://www.managemyhome.com/mmh/lis_pdf/OWNM/1006756L.pdf

I'm now officially confused. The schematic is different than the one I posted from the Sears service book.
It shows the weirdest alternator system I've seen, having a Voltage Regulator *AND* separate AC lighting coil!

Anyway, this schematic (page 27/48) shows a tiller attachment connector as part of the cranking circuit.
Apparently, there is a jumper that has to be plugged in if the tiller isn't attached?

Have you solved the fuse blowing problem?
IF NOT, one possibility is an incorrect ignition switch.
Older tractors with a battery/points ignition used a similar appearing switch, but it was wired differently internally. Using that switch can blow fuses/melt wires....


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

Hmmm when i got this tractor it never had a tiller on it and it worked fine with no problems. Last fall was when it startes blowing fuses and now it just doesnt do anything. Doesnt blow fuses or anything. Its wierd. The solonoid could still be bad though right even though i can use it to start the tractor with a screwdriver? I am going to have the solonoid checked when i go back to work tuesday as i dont have a test light or anything. I disabled the deck safety switch and clutch safety switch somit cant be those 2. The only thing thT leaves me wondering is the seat safety switch and the solonoid of maybe a bad wire. But all the grounds and positive wires have just been cleaned. Now thAt i got it running i think i will just have a mechanic look at it.


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

Jump 12V directly to the SMALL terminal of the solenoid.
IF it cranks, solenoid & starter are good.

IF you look at the schematic in the owners manual, you can see the "loop" that is installed when the tiller isn't attached. (when tiller is attached, it apparently has a safety switch on it that is part of the crank circuit)
The problem may be the "loop" is disconnected.

You never did say if it blew the fuse in the *ON* position or the *CRANK* position.
Of course, if you aren't interested, I won't be either.


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

It doesnt blow fuses at all. Almost like theres no power going to it. Wierd cause last fall it would blow fuses as soon as i turned the key to start it (crank position)


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

Since you "disabled" the safety switches in the crank circuit..........
Of course, you didn't explain how you "disabled" them.

Think maybe that has something to do with it???


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## shizcol (May 10, 2013)

No it did it before then. I just disabled the switches yesterday. Saw a video on youtube on how to do it. Just wanted to do it temporarily to see if it was the problem but its not apparently. I just wired them together so it would complete the circuit


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