# Tuff torque transmissions on Broadmoore tractor



## broadmoore (7 mo ago)

Well I am a loyal Simplicity tractor owner and have had them since the 1970s. Never had any significant problems until the tractor wears out over a 20 year period. Well in 2015 , I bought a brand new Broadmoore because I just needed something reliable to mow with and had the 52 inch steel deck. I take great care of my various toys and they always kept in a clean shop. 
That brings me to my current problem.

Have any other customers had problems with the transmission failing in there broadmoores. At first sign of a problem I checked the transmission belt , went thru 3 . In the end it did not make a difference what belt was on. I also checked the oil level and condition and that all looked good. My yard consisted of dikes so I do a fair bit of hill mowing but nothing to steep.
My tractor and mower looks good as new but I cant figure out what is the problem. I took it to the dealer and they put a new belt on and said it works. They are a great Simplicity dealer and have been good to deal with in the past.

Ok , they are right it works or drives for about 10 minutes and once the transmission gets warm , I can hear a grating noise or severe slipping coming from under the seat area where the transmission is located.

Any advise on what the problem might be. I have seen online videos of guys taking the tuff torque transmissions off and there is a filter inside the unit. Has anybody seen the gears break up inside. 

Thank you for any help. 

Hey guys, just a quick comment on these forums. I am new to this one but I feel these forum serve a good purpose and I wonder when I speak with my dealer about others on Simplicity forums having various problems they look at me like deer in the headlights. Wouldnt a dealer be submersed in what problems develop and be glad there are forums available to compare problems with!. Why are forums looked down upon by dealers.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

broadmoore said:


> Well I am a loyal Simplicity tractor owner and have had them since the 1970s. Never had any significant problems until the tractor wears out over a 20 year period. Well in 2015 , I bought a brand new Broadmoore because I just needed something reliable to mow with and had the 52 inch steel deck. I take great care of my various toys and they always kept in a clean shop.
> That brings me to my current problem.
> 
> Have any other customers had problems with the transmission failing in there broadmoores. At first sign of a problem I checked the transmission belt , went thru 3 . In the end it did not make a difference what belt was on. I also checked the oil level and condition and that all looked good. My yard consisted of dikes so I do a fair bit of hill mowing but nothing to steep.
> ...


540lbs machine (empty) with 220 ft lbs rated torque transaxle. K66 is rated at 310 ft lbs. $230 for seal kit alone -- Rebuild kit no longer available through Tuff Torq ---- $1,000+ new

The noise you're hearing is either a couple of the drive motor, or pump motor, springs have broken. You were supposed change the oil and filter after the 1st 50 hours, and every 100 hours after that. Why didn't you do it? Because you have to drop the transaxle out and split the case to get at their $82 filter (item # 22 in the link below) and nobody told you that

K62 Transaxle Parts Diagram


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## MAVINS (3 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> 540lbs machine (empty) with 220 ft lbs rated torque transaxle. K66 is rated at 310 ft lbs. $230 for seal kit alone -- Rebuild kit no longer available through Tuff Torq ---- $1,000+ new
> 
> The noise you're hearing is either a couple of the drive motor, or pump motor, springs have broken. You were supposed change the oil and filter after the 1st 50 hours, and every 100 hours after that. Why didn't you do it? Because you have to drop the transaxle out and split the case to get at their $82 filter (item # 22 in the link below) and nobody told you that
> 
> K62 Transaxle Parts Diagram


 I'm Assuming same interval would apply to a K57 Transaxle?


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Yep... Same puny 3/4" axle shaft , only rated at a max of 255 Ft Lbs torque, and you have to drop the trans axle out to change the oil. In addition, you have to split the transaxle case to actually change their overpriced $30 filter, and SOS you can't just buy replacement $2 pump plunger springs like you used to be able to do (which is what usually breaks) now you have to buy the entire $200 cylinder block assembly. Not a big fan of Tuff Torq now days......


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## MAVINS (3 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> Yep... Same puny 3/4" axle shaft , only rated at a max of 255 Ft Lbs torque, and you have to drop the trans axle out to change the oil. In addition, you have to split the transaxle case to actually change their overpriced $30 filter, and SOS you can't just buy replacement $2 pump plunger springs like you used to be able to do (which is what usually breaks) now you have to buy the entire $200 cylinder block assembly. Not a big fan of Tuff Torq now days......


 Is there an instructions on how to do it? I did a quick YouTube search but it didn’t come up with anything. I’ll do a bit more digging once I get home.


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## broadmoore (7 mo ago)

I will write up an explanation on what went wrong with my broadmore. My dealer open up the trans axle and found broken parts inside and have ordered replacements. I will get the part numbers. This tractor has sat at the dealer since May 2022. Parts are slow or back ordered. I ended up buying a 2022 broadmore to get the job done this summer. My 2015 model only has about 150 hours when the trans axle went down. I do mow on hills but nothing too steep. Not impressed with the products reliability.


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## MAVINS (3 mo ago)

broadmoore said:


> I will write up an explanation on what went wrong with my broadmore. My dealer open up the trans axle and found broken parts inside and have ordered replacements. I will get the part numbers. This tractor has sat at the dealer since May 2022. Parts are slow or back ordered. I ended up buying a 2022 broadmore to get the job done this summer. My 2015 model only has about 150 hours when the trans axle went down. I do mow on hills but nothing too steep. Not impressed with the products reliability.


It would be awesome if you could share that info. I have some hills too, i might pre order some trans repair parts just in case. Now I'm a bit worried if I made a right choice going with Broadmoor . maybe i should of upped my budget and go with a prestige model, or something totally different.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

MAVINS said:


> It would be awesome if you could share that info. I have some hills too, i might pre order some trans repair parts just in case. Now I'm a bit worried if I made a right choice going with Broadmoor . maybe i should of upped my budget and go with a prestige model, or something totally different.


The big downside to those Tuff Torqs is trying to pull even the smallest of lawn carts. I would also see if there is a mowing pattern you can use to mow DOWNHILL wherever possible. There's nothing you can do about their stupid design to where you have to pull the axle and split the case to do a simple oil/filter change at their recommended oil change intervals and they damn sure don't tell you that upfront when you're buying the machine. I've worked on a 1/2 dozen Tuff Torq trans axles that have failed with less than 150 hours on them in the last year.

If you want something with a ground drive system that's going to last 10-15 years, you have to go with a full blown hydraulic system like a Scag, or Exmark. External 10 micron filter and "C" rated 20w50 diesel oil (higher Zinc content). Most of those commercial lawn guys you see running Scags and Exmarks mow 150-200 hours per month. That's an oil/filter change on the drive system once a month. The average homeowner takes 3-4 years to accumulate that kind of operational time depending on where you live and how long your mowing season. 

This is inside the last Tuff Torq I rebuilt this Summer to show you what I'm talking about with the oil overheating....


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## broadmoore (7 mo ago)

Thanks for sharing your experience. I am a grain farmer and once I am done my field work I will get more info on my simplicity tractor. My dealer said mine was the first ever trans axle that has failed. That is crazy!My tractor from 2015 looks brand new and should have tonnes of life left. I know my oil did smell burnt when it was acting up. I might do 25 hours of mowing a year. Had no idea a filter was inside that axle. When I get the tractor back I will report back the repair.


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## MAVINS (3 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> The big downside to those Tuff Torqs is trying to pull even the smallest of lawn carts. I would also see if there is a mowing pattern you can use to mow DOWNHILL wherever possible. There's nothing you can do about their stupid design to where you have to pull the axle and split the case to do a simple oil/filter change at their recommended oil change intervals and they damn sure don't tell you that upfront when you're buying the machine. I've worked on a 1/2 dozen Tuff Torq trans axles that have failed with less than 150 hours on them in the last year.
> 
> If you want something with a ground drive system that's going to last 10-15 years, you have to go with a full blown hydraulic system like a Scag, or Exmark. External 10 micron filter and "C" rated 20w50 diesel oil (higher Zinc content). Most of those commercial lawn guys you see running Scags and Exmarks mow 150-200 hours per month. That's an oil/filter change on the drive system once a month. The average homeowner takes 3-4 years to accumulate that kind of operational time depending on where you live and how long your mowing season.
> 
> ...


Wow, that oil is cooked!!!

So i just came around a smoked K71 transaxle, it appears that controls are at proper positions, but need to verify. besides controls, do you think it would mount onto Broadmoor. I was thinking about rebuilding that K71, and have it as a spare. or i just might stick with a K57 to have less of a headache fitting it.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

If you have the tools and fabricating skills, you should be able to mount a K71 in a Broadmoor without many problems. The K71 does have 1" axles and is rated at about 400 Ft lbs. The downside is the SOS with Tuff Torq..... Axle has to come out of the frame and split the case to do an oil/filter change. They are proud of their K71 rebuild kit also. It runs about $650 from Tuff Torq with shipping, it's also "temporarily" out-of-stock from Tuff Torq at the moment, and doesn't include their $45 per gallon oil. I use 10W30 "S" type oil that runs less than $20. A new K71 is about $1,700 from Tuff Torq with shipping. 

Part # 201 in the link below is their complete K71 rebuild kit, but without oil.

K71 Parts Diagram


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## MAVINS (3 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> If you have the tools and fabricating skills, you should be able to mount a K71 in a Broadmoor without many problems. The K71 does have 1" axles and is rated at about 400 Ft lbs. The downside is the SOS with Tuff Torq..... Axle has to come out of the frame and split the case to do an oil/filter change. They are proud of their K71 rebuild kit also. It runs about $650 from Tuff Torq with shipping, it's also "temporarily" out-of-stock from Tuff Torq at the moment, and doesn't include their $45 per gallon oil. I use 10W30 "S" type oil that runs less than $20. A new K71 is about $1,700 from Tuff Torq with shipping.
> 
> Part # 201 in the link below is their complete K71 rebuild kit, but without oil.
> 
> K71 Parts Diagram


So besides TuffTorq what else would you suggest, only other one I know of is Hydro Gear. But not sure if it would be possible to fit in Broadmoor or not. I do not have enough experience with small engine stuff, but very mechanically inclined. I do service and repair my own cars, I have brought back to life to dead VW vehicles, one needed an engine rebuild and another needed some wiring redone, along with extensive maintained and suspension/brake system work. So I'm not afraid of some grease work, lol. 
I just trying to figure out what to do when my transaxle fails. Do I just rebuild it, do I go with K70 series, or do I go totally different brand. I really like Broadmoor, i cut my lawn last night for first time since i got it (few days ago), it runs nice and smooth, feels very heavy duty and solid, unlike all of previous tractor wanna bees.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

MAVINS said:


> So besides TuffTorq what else would you suggest, only other one I know of is Hydro Gear. But not sure if it would be possible to fit in Broadmoor or not. I do not have enough experience with small engine stuff, but very mechanically inclined. I do service and repair my own cars, I have brought back to life to dead VW vehicles, one needed an engine rebuild and another needed some wiring redone, along with extensive maintained and suspension/brake system work. So I'm not afraid of some grease work, lol.
> I just trying to figure out what to do when my transaxle fails. Do I just rebuild it, do I go with K70 series, or do I go totally different brand. I really like Broadmoor, i cut my lawn last night for first time since i got it (few days ago), it runs nice and smooth, feels very heavy duty and solid, unlike all of previous tractor wanna bees.


The problem you run into with "IHT's" (Integrated Hydrostatic Transaxles) is that most of them come with 3/4" axles and really light torque ratings. The most common "home owner" Hydro Gear units you see (one on each side) is the ZT2800. 1" axles and rated at 300 FT Lbs. Their most common "commercial" grade is the ZT3400..... 1 1/8" axles and 500 FT Lbs. I've done a lot of crazy fabricating, but I don't think I'd even attempt to put individual Hydro Gear units in to replace an IHT. Ground drive belt routing/tension I would think as being the biggest problem to over come.....


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## MAVINS (3 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> The problem you run into with "IHT's" (Integrated Hydrostatic Transaxles) is that most of them come with 3/4" axles and really light torque ratings. The most common "home owner" Hydro Gear units you see (one on each side) is the ZT2800. 1" axles and rated at 300 FT Lbs. Their most common "commercial" grade is the ZT3400..... 1 1/8" axles and 500 FT Lbs. I've done a lot of crazy fabricating, but I don't think I'd even attempt to put individual Hydro Gear units in to replace an IHT. Ground drive belt routing/tension I would think as being the biggest problem to over come.....


That’s what I thought, so sounds like I’ll have to stick with tuff torq. Thank You for your input


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Yep.... Certified for both Hydro Gear and Tuff Torq warranty work. Tuff Torq is the "money maker". $200 for oil/filter change (Includes oil & filter). $300 in labor alone to rebuild and you buy the "Kit" and oil. Just looked up tickets over the last year..... $2,000+ in revenue in the last 12 months on Tuff Torq axles.... $200 on Hydro Gears

Now I'm thinking I need to send the Design Boys at Tuff Torq a Christmas Card this year


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## MAVINS (3 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> Yep.... Certified for both Hydro Gear and Tuff Torq warranty work. Tuff Torq is the "money maker". $200 for oil/filter change (Includes oil & filter). $300 in labor alone to rebuild and you buy the "Kit" and oil. Just looked up tickets over the last year..... $2,000+ in revenue in the last 12 months on Tuff Torq axles.... $200 on Hydro Gears
> 
> Now I'm thinking I need to send the Design Boys at Tuff Torq a Christmas Card this year


From your comment it makes want to sell Broadmoor and buy something with a hydroGear! Is it what you are saying that HydroGears are better?

Any suggestions on a Machine with a hydrogear? I have a hilly yard, and I was also considering doing snow blowing with a tractor, most of driveway is also a hill. Preferably tractor type not a zeroturn. I actually might found a buyer for my Broadmoor, 😂 my coworker.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Just about anything you look at that is a conventional type lawn tractor(Mower) today is going to be an IHT (3/4" axles and light torque ratings. The individual Hydro Gear and Tuff Torq units come on zero-turns. To be honest, I can't think of a conventional lawn tractor today that I would recommend. The older Cub Cadets (with the shaft drive) and the old Case/Ingersolls had pretty much indestructible rear axles. The Cases were built just like a miniature car rear end and they were also 2-Speed.

Depending on where you live, you can still pick up a good Case 400 Series (446, 448) for $1200-$1,500. Those weren't "lawn mowers", they are "Garden Tractors" and are built accordingly. I have my Dad's 1979 446 and it's still a work horse. The down side to the 400 Series Cases today is they came with Onan engines, another almost indestructible design. The downside is that Onan is no longer around and their parts are getting pricey. Those were 4,000 hour engines, the top of the line engines you buy today you're lucky to see 1,500 hours.

I'd take a look around and see if I could find one of those old Case 400's (or Ingersoll 4000 Series) in decent shape. They were built like a tank and could handle your property with no problem. The link below will give you an idea of the market pricing for a real "Miniature Tractor", not a Big Box Store "Lawn Mower" with a hood. The thing to look for with your hilly property is to make sure you know how to operate the early Cases on hills, or that the machine has a L-9 "holding valve" installed. See the link below to understand the function of the Case holding valve. They were an option up until about 1985, then they became standard equipment. If you find an older one with the L-9 installed, it was either ordered as a factory option, or somebody installed it after they crapped their pants on a big hill because they didn't read the Operators Manual 

Case 400 Series Garden Tractor Pricing

Case Holding Valve


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## MAVINS (3 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> Just about anything you look at that is a conventional type lawn tractor(Mower) today is going to be an IHT (3/4" axles and light torque ratings. The individual Hydro Gear and Tuff Torq units come on zero-turns. To be honest, I can't think of a conventional lawn tractor today that I would recommend. The older Cub Cadets (with the shaft drive) and the old Case/Ingersolls had pretty much indestructible rear axles. The Cases were built just like a miniature car rear end and they were also 2-Speed.
> 
> Depending on where you live, you can still pick up a good Case 400 Series (446, 448) for $1200-$1,500. Those weren't "lawn mowers", they are "Garden Tractors" and are built accordingly. I have my Dad's 1979 446 and it's still a work horse. The down side to the 400 Series Cases today is they came with Onan engines, another almost indestructible design. The downside is that Onan is no longer around and their parts are getting pricey. Those were 4,000 hour engines, the top of the line engines you buy today you're lucky to see 1,500 hours.
> 
> ...


What do you think of a Kubota ones, GR series an T series?


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

The Kubota Z-turns I've worked on are really well built machines. Haven't worked on one of their conventional tractors, but there are several guys on this forum that swear by them. Those 400 Cases and 4000 Ingersolls are capable of way more farm/ranch type work with the right attachments that you can still pick up cheap. Cost wise, a good running Case/Ingersoll will run you about 75% less $$$ and work circles around GR or T Series.

Case/Ingersoll Attachments Available


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## MAVINS (3 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> The Kubota Z-turns I've worked on are really well built machines. Haven't worked on one of their conventional tractors, but there are several guys on this forum that swear by them. Those 400 Cases and 4000 Ingersolls are capable of way more farm/ranch type work with the right attachments that you can still pick up cheap. Cost wise, a good running Case/Ingersoll will run you about 75% less $$$ and work circles around GR or T Series.
> 
> Case/Ingersoll Attachments Available


Wow, you do have a valid point about a prices, cheapest running Kubota conventional tractor I found was 1998 with 700+hours, and that thing was $2500 and almost 300miles away from me. And god knows how well it runs, 😂.
But I did find few decent looking Case/Ingersols under $1k. Some even with attachments. And all with 100miles range from me.
And sorry if I bug you so much with questions, but you sound like a guy that knows his stuff. How is a parts availability for case/ingersol? What look out for when I’ll be looking at them? Are there a certain models to stay away from or wise versa? 
thank You I really appreciate you taking your time answering all of newbie questions.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

I've posted several Service and Parts Manuals in the "Resource Section" of this forum on the 400 Series Cases you might want to reference. The old 400 Series Cases are still fairly easy to find parts, both new and used because there are so many of them still around. Even the holding valves w/tubing come up on E-bay all the time. The thing about those older Onan engines is that they ran point ignition systems, so you need to know how to set/adjust those. However, I have seen after market bolt-in electronic units for them. If you take a look at the front axle, you'll notice it has a center pivot pin. It runs through a bronze bushing in the frame and if that pivot hasn't been greased regularly, especially if it's pushed a lot of snow, it tends to wear. Easiest way to check that pivot is to jack up the front end and shake the axle. Should be very little movement if the pivot pin/bushing is good.

Don't be worried about buying a Case that is 40 years old. They are rock solid machines that will still outlast anything you can buy new today, for 75% less money. 446 has a B43 Onan Engine (16HP)... 448 has a B48 Onan (18HP). They both have the same bore, but the B48 has a 7mm longer stroke, so it has a little more low end torque. The 400 Cases were some of the finest "garden tractors" ever built and they were specifically made to work on a piece on property like yours. If you were to offer me a brand new conventional style (hooded lawn tractor) and a 40 year old 400 Series Case, I take the Case every time no doubt. They also run 16" truck tires on the rear, so a lot of guys just run 16" snow tires on them, but you can get 16" Ag tires for them. That also means you can run just standard 16" chains if you're pushing or blowing snow. They also made factory cabs for them










Here's a link to a PDF Service Manual that covers both the B43 and B48. As you'll see they are about as simple to work on as a small engine gets. I had a customer bring me a B43 that was on a generator set he used on a sawmill unit to provide 110 AC out in the middle of nowhere a couple of years ago, it had 5,000+ hours on it, and all it needed was a tune up and the heads de-carboned. As far as I know, it's still running

B43 & B48 Service Manual


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## MAVINS (3 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> I've posted several Service and Parts Manuals in the "Resource Section" of this forum on the 400 Series Cases you might want to reference. The old 400 Series Cases are still fairly easy to find parts, both new and used because there are so many of them still around. Even the holding valves w/tubing come up on E-bay all the time. The thing about those older Onan engines is that they ran point ignition systems, so you need to know how to set/adjust those. However, I have seen after market bolt-in electronic units for them. If you take a look at the front axle, you'll notice it has a center pivot pin. It runs through a bronze bushing and if that pivot hasn't been greased regularly, it tends to wear. Easiest way to check that pivot is to jack up the front end and shake the axle. Should be very little movement if the pivot pin/bushing is good.
> 
> Don't be worried about buying a Case that is 40 years old. They are rock solid machines that will still outlast anything you can buy new today, for 75% less money. 446 has a B43 Onan Engine (16HP)... 448 has a B48 Onan (18HP). They both have the same bore, but the B48 has a 7mm longer stroke, so it has a little more low end torque. The 400 Cases were some of the finest "garden tractors" ever built and they were specifically made to work on a piece on property like yours. If you were to offer me a brand new conventional style (hooded lawn tractor) and a 40 year old 400 Series Case, I take the Case every time no doubt. They also run 16" truck tires on the rear, so a lot of guys just run 16" snow tires on them, but you can get 16" Ag tires for them. That also means you can run just standard 16" chains if you're pushing or blowing snow. They also made factory cabs for them
> View attachment 82912
> ...


That service manual is awesome. You can literally rebuild a whole engine with it. Unlike service manuals for new tractors, _"if you are having issues Contact your dealer_", lol

Thank You for your info. I probably wont be buying one anytime soon, but I'll start shopping for them. I'm going to be looking at Case 222 next week, i know you are talking about a 400series. but I just want start laying my eyes on case tractors, start learning things about them. Also found a place has a ton of them for sale, they have them starting from $700 for a non running/or barely running, and all the way up to $7k for a restored ones. They also sell parts and accessories, so they might be a good source for me if i decided to go this route.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

MAVINS said:


> That service manual is awesome. You can literally rebuild a whole engine with it. Unlike service manuals for new tractors, _"if you are having issues Contact your dealer_", lol
> 
> Thank You for your info. I probably wont be buying one anytime soon, but I'll start shopping for them. I'm going to be looking at Case 222 next week, i know you are talking about a 400series. but I just want start laying my eyes on case tractors, start learning things about them. Also found a place has a ton of them for sale, they have them starting from $700 for a non running/or barely running, and all the way up to $7k for a restored ones. They also sell parts and accessories, so they might be a good source for me if i decided to go this route.


Case 222 is even older, they started making them in 1969.... They came with a K301 (12HP) Kohler. A little under powered for pushing, or blowing heavy snow, and they strained with a roto-tiller in tightly packed soil.


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