# 4000 injection



## oldmanfarmer (Mar 24, 2016)

Hi Guys/Gals,

Last year i bought a 1969 4000 and fixed a few things but always have problems starting it.

I already fixed the thermostart wire/connection and new starter and starter switch new fuel filter, fresh fuel, but it still is a B to start every time. I turn the key and it turns over, over, over, ...... till the battery dies and I have to charge it and try to start it again. This procedure is repeated about 3 times every time I need it.

I some times when I crack one or more of the injectors the motor seems to increase speed, and sometimes it will start some not.

Fuel comes out of the injectors when cracked at a fair speed, not shooting but not leaking out.

I was thinking that I should test the fuel pressure to the injectors but cant seem to find out how? I checked the huge manual I have but cant find it in there for the 4000 diesel.

Next I was going to check the injector spray and pressure. Any idea where I can get the testers or rent them?


Thank you again for all the input,


OMF (OldManFarmer)


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

The injectors get tester on a "pop tester". The spray pattern, opening pressure and leakage are checked. Its not something a home owner can do easily.. There are pop testers for sale on ebay and homemade ones on utube, but they're not worth the time and money when you can buy one for 125.00.
Just take or send them to a fuel shop to get tested.. they normally charge a fee.
Sometimes you can buy a set online cheaper than getting them tested & rebuilt.. by the time you pay for the parts, labor, new gaskets & the shipping cost.
Have you checked/adjusted the injection pump timing??
You didn't say which injection pump you have.. CAV rotary style or Simms inline..
If you tell me, I can assist you in the timing.. I even have a pop tester..


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## oldmanfarmer (Mar 24, 2016)

My local shop will pop test the injectors for free and the copper and cork gaskets are 5 dollars per injector. Think its worth 15 dollars?

Its a CAV style and it looks like some one has been working on it but not me. and no I have not checked the timing but would love help checking and adjusting it.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Hello OMF,

If you haven't tested the injectors, it is well worth $15 to get it done by a shop. I can almost guarantee you they will need to be serviced. Cost for injector servicing used to be $50-$60.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

YUP.. 15.00 is WELL WORTH the money.. BUT they're gonna tell you they're "BAD".. and need new tips.. about 65.00 each.. TRY the timing 1st..
See the corner of the inj. pump mounting flange? it has a timing line on it, That line lines up w/ degree marks stamped into the block.. The timing line on the pump should be lined up w/ "O".. DONT scrape it.. go get some gasket stripper from the hardware store in a spray can.. Spray it on, wipe it off.. The #'s are there.. they're painted over 100x but they're there.
The name plate is painted over too I see.. Do the same w/ it.. DONT scrape it..


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## oldmanfarmer (Mar 24, 2016)

It might take me a couple days. I have to wait for the creek to lower and rain to stop before i can get out. When I get the paint off I will post it. 

Thank you.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

I hope it works out for ya.. 
Its acceptable to go 1/2 line OPPOSITE ,the arrow direction if need be, to compensate for gear train wear.. but "0"is what your shooting for..


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

I have a 1967 Ford 3000 Diesel and was wondering if I should change the injectors. I can get injectors for about 45 each and I would need three. I have had the tractor for 1.5 years and have not changed them out and I dont know how old they are. The tractor is a little hard to start when cold but otherwise runs OK. If I have the money should I change them out or could I cause new problems when they are changed out?


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## oldmanfarmer (Mar 24, 2016)

JGPenfiel,

I don't know that much about them and maybe some one else can give you a better answer but I am a true believer in "if it a'int broke don't F with it" unless it's a maintenance issue. Also I would make sure all parts are new or rebuilt by a certified mechanic in the field of the part that was rebuilt. 

thepumpguysc,

You mentioned for me to get gasket stripper, did you mean paint stripper?
and if yes why not paint stripper?

All I could find is Permatex Foaming action Gasket Remover. Will that work?

I have never done this before and I am assuming this is the best way to remove the 8 or more layers of paint without damaging the marks and lines.


Thanks again.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

YES, paint/gasket stripper.. I normally write THAT but musta gotten in a hurry.. sorry for any confusion.. I get mine from Walley World or the local hardware store, in a spray can.. works great.. Take a little water bottle w/ you to wash it down, its caustic after all.. and will sting your hands..
Spray it on & wipe it off. a roll of paper towles wouldn't hurt either.. cuz it looks like a lot of paint.. Just DO YOUR BEST not to scrape it..


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## oldmanfarmer (Mar 24, 2016)

*up date time*

Ok I used paint stripper and it exposed the timming marks on the CAV and the mounting flange. The pump was lined up at the number 6 on the right side of 0.

I moved it to 0 and it did not seem to help. A couple of times it was popping but when I tightend the injectors it died(stopped poping) (the key was held on the entire time it sounded like it was popping even after the injectors were tightend).

I moved it back to 6 and nothing.

Tha timing mark on the CAV has a 9c above it. Does that mean something?

The mounting flange timing marks go from 12 to 0 to 12, no -(negative) or +(positive).

I cant find any thing in the service manual about the CAV or timing.

Any ideas?

Thank you, 

OMF


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

That is mighty odd.. the only thing I can think of is, someone had the engine apart and installed the front gears off a tooth or 2??
The timing line on the pump is supposed to be at 0 on the engine..
The 9c doesn't mean a thing..
I cant read the #'s on the name plate.. If you can relay them, I'll tell you which way to turn the pump. The top line> 3233F***
Up on the NP, does it say "rotation"?? There should be an arrow across from it..


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## oldmanfarmer (Mar 24, 2016)

tha DPA is 3533300 and SER is 33106 sm.

I do know that a new clutch was installed but that should be all, as for it being split.

It does look like some one has worked on the pump(CAV) and maybe even had the pump off the tractor at some time.

I am going to have the injectors pop tested but wanted to make sure i tackled one problem at a time.

I have noticed that the tractor sound like it turns over slower then it should?
Could timing have some thing to do with it?

On a gas car only a low battery, or restricted air flow would cause that kind of issue what about a diesel?

Is there any way to tell if the timing is off? If it was gas I would turn the distributor while cranking and listen to the speed of it turning over but on a diesel, turning the CAV wouldn't work would it?


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Looking at the front of the pump, it turns clockwise..
SO, if you were looking at it from the side.. it turns towards the engine..
If you wanted to advance the timing, you would turn it AWAY FROM the engine..
BTW> GREAT JOB on the stripper.. MOST PEOPLE I tell that to, just scrape them anyway..
While your at the fuel shop getting the injectors rebuilt, ask them "how much" to rebuild a "CAV, DPA pump".. w & w/o a head & rotor... 
Take your PUMP #'s w/ you.. or just call..
ALSO, see if you can borrow a compression tester & injector adaptor..
As far as the cranking speed, they are WELL KNOWN for turning slow & not starting.. I saw in your 1st post, its a new starter.. I think its time to break the bank & buy a NEW battery..
I've had GOOD LUCK hooking a "jump box" directly to the starter hot & grounding directly to the engine block.. when I'm out in the field working on one.
Are you holding the throttle WIDE OPEN when cranking the engine?? THAT, makes a HUGE difference..
Let me know what the fuel shop says about the rebuild w & w/o a head & rotor, I might be able to save you several hundred $ on a rebuild..
DONT FORGET.. hold the throttle WIDE OPEN when cranking.. once it starts, go to idle or slightly above, till she warms up abit..


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

OH, DO NOT try to turn the pump while cranking or running.. like a distributor..
The tolerances in there are minut and it could seize the pump and your left w/ a very expensive door stopper.. or small boat anchor..
With the ENGINE OFF..
Loosen pump, turn to desired timing * AND TIGHTEN DOWN..
Repeat as needed..


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## oldmanfarmer (Mar 24, 2016)

Were you able to confirm the timing is 0 degrees for a 1969 ford 3 cyl diesel 4000?


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## oldmanfarmer (Mar 24, 2016)

just to let you all know. I took the injectors to a local shop and after they told me it was free to test them they tried to charge me. but I found out that one was bad, one was questionable, and one was good.

I am getting 3 rebuilt ones for $100.00. I was going to only do 1 but figured why take a chance. I couldnt find any rebuild kits, any one know if their are kits out there?


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Kits for the pump?? 7135-110 Delphi #..
There's no such thing as a kit for an injector, seeing they all take different tips..
OR do you mean an installation kit?
The fuel shop will have the gaskets & seals to reinstall the injectors.. copper gasket on the bottom & a cork gasket around the body.. that's probably why they wanted to charge you.. for the gaskets??
The fuel shop will have the injection pump kit also.. about 25.00..
You may wanna think long & hard about going into the inj. pump..


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## oldmanfarmer (Mar 24, 2016)

Thepumpguysc,

I was talking about the injectors. I have had all kinds of problems with this beats of a tractor since I got it and spent all kinds of money that i dont have to get it going and if this dont breath new life into it I will probably have it towed for auction at the end of April. 

I have spent too much time and money already. Going into the pump is way over my head and I still have a small coolant Leak i cant find.

Thanks for the help and I will let you know what I find.

Thanx,

OMF

Keep tractoring..:tractorsm:tractorsm


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