# Ford 850 Frozen Engine



## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

I have a Ford 850 SN 21021 that has been sitting outside for about 10 years. I have taken the sheet metal off removed the spark plugs, drained the oil (no water in it) and connected a 12 v battery (it had a 12v alternator conversion installed). When I energize the starter relay the engine will not turn over. Starter is drawing a good bit of current so I am careful not to burn it out. Placing it in gear and rocking the tractor back & forth will not break it loose. I have poured some ATF fluid in each cylinder and will give it a couple of days before trying again. Does anyone have any other things I can try before I pull the head?

Also the carb was in pretty sad shape with rust on the inside. I will need to rebuild it but how do I tell which Model Marvel carb it is. I have seen rebuild kits for 850's but for different carb model numbers.

Would appreciate any advice.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

These carbs can be difficult when it comes to nailing down the exact unit, but with a little help you should be able to find the right kit.
Check out the great info at Steiners, hopefully that will help.

http://www.steinertractor.com/pdfs/carb-marvel-schebler.pdf

http://antiquetractorblog.com/tag/carburetor/

http://www.steinertractor.com/pdfs/carburetor_diagrams.pdf

In regards to the stuck engine, ATF is good, I hear diesel is good... the biggest issue is time. It may need some bit of time to soak before you can free it up. Be patient and let the ATF do it's job. 
Have fun with the old tractor and keep us posted on your progress.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

*Rusty Carb*

After soaking the carb in carb cleaner, found the numbers "593" which I assume means it is a TSX593. Really going to need a complete rebuild kit. This is the first cast iron carb I have ever worked on and think I know why they use aluminum now. This sucker really rusted on the inside. Choke plate won't budge, one carb float looks like it has been mashed in. My inclination is to soak it in Evapo-Rust (read some good reviews on this product). My concern is what this might do to the passageways in the carb. Does anyone have any experience soaking these carbs in rust remover?

Two days soaking cylinders with ATF had no effect. Appears some of the ATF leaked down into the oil pan. Found in "How to Restore Ford Tractors" where one guy recommended using 1/3 ATF, 1/3 Kerosene and 1/3 Marvel Mystery Oil. Will try that. Since it is a straight 4 engine, shouldn't take too much in each cylinder. Based on what I saw in the carb, am getting a little worried. Will take the valve cover off to see what that looks like on the top end. Since it took about 10 years to get this way, might need a lot of patience!


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Seems you are on the right track. Patience is the big thing as well, it could take a bit of time to free up that engine. 
Thanks for the up date.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

Your options are:
1) Wait it out.
2) Pull the engine, pull the head, drop the pan, remove the crank and slug the pistons out with a BFH and block of wood.
Myself, I know which route I'd go.
I soaked one all winter once. Added ATF a couple of times.
My friend swore it wouldn't come unstuck but come spring we towed it and it turned over.
When I got it running it smoked like all get out. But I hooked it to the brush mower and worked the snot out of it for about 4 hours. Twice.
Smoke cleared up and the engine ran good.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

*Really Frozen Engine*

Have had no luck with just soaking cyl's with magic penetrating solutions. Finally bit the bullet and pulled head and dropped pan. The oil was blacker than any diesel oil I have ever seen with 1/4" of sludge in the pan. Think the original owner tried to keep tractor in original condition right down to the original oil !!!!

1. When I pulled the head, #2 was at top of stroke, about 1/4" down, with valves open. Found the #3 intake valve stuck open and appears to have been run that way. Valve had to be removed with a hammer and the guide probaby rusted on inside. Also #3 intake valve pushrod had slippped out of rocker arm socket. Decide a valve job with new valves/guides/springs was in order.

2. All pistons appreasr to be stuck to varying degrees, but cannot be sure because #2 is really, really stuck. Cannot get any penetrating oil past the top of the piston. I filled the cyl to top with PB Blaster penetrating oil and ever other day give it a good whack with a 4x4 block and a BFH. Will keep that up for another couple of weeks and then try pulling the tractor again. If that fails, remove the rod end cap and use a hydraulic jack to force it. This will probably destroy the piston, but am pretty sure the sleeve is too far gone to be salvaged.

This brings me to sourcing the parts. tractorpartsexpress.com and fixmyford. com seem to have the best selection of parts I will need. Has anyone had any experience with these suppliers or have any other good sources?


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

*Correction*

Incorrect web site listed in my last post. Should befixthatford.com NOT fixmyford.com


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Two rebuild kits that I've read favorable comments on are TISCO and A&I. 

tractorpartsexpress.com and fixthatford.com may supply these kits. Also, I think Yesterday's tractor and cheaptractorparts.com may have them. 

Ultradog would be a good source of information in this regard.

Good luck.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

*Final Solution + New Problem*

After pounding on the #2 piston for 2 months, finally gave in (patience is not one of my strong suits) and pulled (guess the correct term is "split") the engine. Removed the rod ends and found #4 rod had spun a bearing buggering up the journal. The other 3 bearings were worn, but the journals were within spec. At this point removed the crankshaft. The #4 rod journal looks like it can be undersized to use .040 bearings, but will be close. Mains measured OK. Next step is to find a crank shop. Finding auto machine shops is a challenge these days. Looks like most people purchase rebuilt engines instead of fixing the old ones. A trip to the local race track has been my best source for auto machine stops.

The original #2 stuck piston is still there. Pounded some more and got piston to move down about 1/2" and then no amount of pounding could budge it. Tried pounding from underneath, but can't get it to move either up or down. Think I can remove the piston by forcing it down with a hydraulic jack from the top since I have removed the crank but have never removed a pistion from the bottom before. Looks like that should work.

Bought a Tisco sleeve/piston kit from fixthatford.com (very good service) so don't need to worry about destroying anything but the rod. They also have .040 bearings.

Becomg an expert in old Ford tractor engines.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

*Free At Last*

The #2 piston is finally out. Forced it to bottom of stroke with a chain around the block and a 6 ton hydraulic jack. Required much pressure all the way down and never completely free. Found piston cannot be removed from bottom so had to hammer it back up. First tried an oak 2x2 but could not budge it. Next came a 3/4" steel rod and 20# hammer. Moved about 1/8" per whack. Destroyed the pin bosses but have new pistons. It appears that the main culprit was the oil rings. They were rusted solid, the top compression rings looked OK and were loose.

Have removed the old sleeves and found what looks like gouge marks in 3 of the block walls. Appears this engine was resleeved at some point in its life and the sleeve removal was pretty rough. Will hone the walls to remove the high spots.

Crank is at the machine shop. Hoping for good news. It is probably a good thing the piston was frozen solid. If I could have free'd it and cranked the engine, would have probably completely destroyed the crank.


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