# Tips on painting



## Adam F (Feb 29, 2004)

I'm going to be painting the body, deck, and wheels of my JD 318. There are some small areas of surface rust here and there and the paint is just a little dull.

I plan on taking all the rusty areas down to bare metal, and lightly sanding the existing paint.

Question is, do I need to use a coat of primer? Maybe a rattle can primer? 

I have a cheap gravity fed spray gun and an air compressor for the paint. I bought some JD green and yellow from Tracor Supply Co. 

Thanks!


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## mark777 (Jul 23, 2004)

Hey Adam,

If you are using the BPS products (by Valspar) sold at TSC you may want to consider using their primer as well. Keeping all the chemistry the same by manufacturer insures better compatability, with a higher success rate.

Using "Rattle Cans" of primer on small parts are usually O.K., but sometimes produce problems like difficult hiding, bleed through, shrinking or the extreme, craze cracking and lifting.

I have used the BPS paints and hardener and for the costs vs. shine and durability compared to high line automotive finishes, it is well worth the savings. 

About 4 years ago the chemical upgrade in the BPS paint line produced a much better, durable paint with high reflectivity, durability and gloss....previous to that the paint systems would dull out and become chalky due to the absence of UV (ultra violet) screeners in the color coat...on average, in less than 2 years. Now, it just might be the best "Bang for the Buck" paint out there, as I have 2 and 3 year old tractors and implements that still look great.

Good luck on your project, and BTW I alway admire tractor guys that paint their own stuff .

Mark


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## Adam F (Feb 29, 2004)

Thanks for the advice. 

Yes I'm using the BPS paint. I guess I'll pick up some matching primer as well. It's just such a pita to clean out the hopper of the spray gun. Oh well.

I bought the hardner too. 

Would it be alright if I used paint thinner to thin the paint to spray, or do I need to use something else? 

Thanks!


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## mark777 (Jul 23, 2004)

Use Naptha for spraying and final wash before topcoat... and mineral spirits (paint thinner) for paint brushing and clean up. Naptha mixed according to directions, accelerates the drying time, especially when using the hardener....cuts it down from 24 hours to 8 hours at 72° and dust free in about 1 hour.

Yeah, I know it's a pain to have to buy seperate stuff, but you will have much better results and for years to come.


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## Mecheng (Jan 21, 2005)

Since there is rust you need to completely remove it with metal prep and coat with 2 part epoxy primer so it won't come back. Use 360-400 grit wet sanding to finish before paint. Otherwise you'll see every sand scratch you left through the new finish. Before putting on the final coats go over the surface with a tack rag to pick up debris off the surface.

Make sure you wear the proper mask and filters. Could be the best $25 bucks you spent. The hardner (catalyst) contains isocynates and it can cause an allergic reaction, inside your lungs = trip to the emergency room.:dazed:

Assuming you are not using a spray booth and you are good painter, spray and dry the surface vertically. You have greater chance of runs but you won't have every particle in the world sticking to the paint before it's tack free, generally about 30 minutes @ 70 degrees and 40-60% humidity.

Mark777 I hear on the chaulking, I had that problem with Ditzler Urethane clear back when it first came out. After 2-3 year it looked horrible:tellyou:


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## mark777 (Jul 23, 2004)

Mecheng,

Sense Adam is using the hardener, you brought up an excellent point concerning isocyanides. Eye protection, gloves and a good respirator with decent cross flow of air should be used from mixing to clean up. The systemic effects from the chemical permeates the skin, lungs and mucus membranes...some die from accumulation, and others short term. IT'S NASTY.

Also agree with epoxy 2 part primers...still the best primer on the market. Pricey and often way out of the budget, plus it has a relatively short shelf life...and even shorter with the catalyst opened (weeks instead of months). I have used Argon to extend the life but it only last a few additional weeks. The newer systems with BPS and their substrates (primer + hardener) are excellent, cost effective alternatives. They meet (and exceed) all the requirements of the average tractor guy.

I use 180 grit on metal for final before primer application, 400 wet on all primer before topcoat application...and paint all surfaces horizontally with long even passes 12"-14" above surface using an HVLP gun. Vertically or horizontal would be a personal choice...and hey, what ever style gives you the best results in my opinion .

Regarding the Ditzler Urethane (2 K Clear Coat). Your right on...It was beautiful, but temporary. My, and many independent shops and dealers fought and lost chemical failure disputes with PPG. The paint would flake off like a red head kid with a bad sunburn. They (PPG) eventually added elastomeric agents and additional UV screeners and changed the brand name to Delthane (DCU).

Mark


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## Mecheng (Jan 21, 2005)

I only brought this up cause I know a fella from another board who painted his ATV disc in his garage and was complaining about how sick he felt afterwards. Didn't bother to read the warning label on the hardener can.

Fortunately he did no have a severe reaction like some I have read about in the car magazines carted away in ambulances cause they didn't use the right resperator cartridges.


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## Adam F (Feb 29, 2004)

Alot of good info! Thanks!

But i'm not going for a professional finish. Just better than the dull rusty paint job on it now. I'll probably just stick with the regular primer and hope for the best.

I will probably have to do the painting out in the front yard! I painted something in the garage last time (which is connected to the house, right next to the family room and kitchen) and it stunk up the house for days.


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## mark777 (Jul 23, 2004)

Adam,

This is a picture of a Yanmar hood using strictly BPS primer, paint and hardener (in both). For a tractor and implement product it does a pretty fair job.

Mark


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## Adam F (Feb 29, 2004)

Looks good to me!

OK, another question. How many coats do I need? How much drying time in between? Do I need to add hardner to all the coats, including the primer? What's a good ratio for hardner to paint?

Thanks! I'm fixing a small hole in the fiberglass hood right now, using some "body filler" (2 park epoxy putty)


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## mark777 (Jul 23, 2004)

It usually takes three coats minimum: The first is a light tack coat completely covering all of your painted and primed surfaces. Nearly transparent because this coat is actually not to hide the surface color, but to build a foundation of adhesion (tooth) for the following coats. When this coat flashes off (dries but sticky like the back of making tape) 15-20 minutes, apply the second coat.

The second coat (hiding coat) should be slow even passes to hide all of the dissimilar colors (shadows that can be seen under the tack coat) and it will provide you the opportunity to watch the paint flow out and evaporate (gas out) plus see any areas that might have been missed.

Your third and final coat (top coat) will produce the depth of gloss and reflection you're trying to achieve. The hardest thing for most painters is not applying the paint, but stopping and walking away, allowing the chemistry to react with time and temperature.

Although the hardener you bought is supposed to catalyze a full gallon of paint, it works much better in thirds. So 1/3 hardener to 1 quart of paint, plus up to 10% Naptha, produces a much higher quality finish. And, although it does not say anywhere on the primer label, add 1/3 hardener per 1 quart primer with the same dilution of Naptha. I have talked with three different Valspar tech's that agree with the 1/3 ratio...as it does NOT over catalyze the product making it brittle and subject to chip.

If you are concerned about runs in your paint, there is a certain discipline that will stop that from ever happening again. As in almost never runs in your project regardless of the type of chemistry you are using.

Sorry about such a long winded post.

Mark


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## DrBailey (Nov 14, 2004)

Hey Mark, 
I think you put many years of exspereance in a very short post !! A very good thread !!
Not meaning to steal you guys thread , but Im fixin to paint another N , what do you think about painting red and gray as always BUT paint the hood and grill RED ? like some of the NAA`s are painted.
Do you think it would kill the value or be a decent change.?? Thanks Adam F , Mecheng ,and Mark


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## mark777 (Jul 23, 2004)

Hey DrB,

Not sure how others feel, but personally it's about choice.

To the purist buyer, they want 100% OEM parts and to duplicate the factory finish...as this adds to the residual value of the tractor. So for them it's about money. So you have to follow the stringent guidelines, including authentic colors, embossed lettering, badges and decals....

I say crap! If it's not fun or you don't actually enjoy the project, then it becomes a tedious job wishing it would hurry up and be over. For me, and at my age, where's the fun in that?

IMHO, and many may disagree, I think you should paint it what ever color suits your fancy...because there's always going to be one guy that points out "This should be this color...or that's not the original way it came from the factory...etc, etc...". So, for every one guy that points out your faults, there's usually three guys waiting in line to buy your tractor...especially YOURS DrB, because they always look nice, regardless of the color.

Mark


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## Durwood (Sep 16, 2003)

I think what Mark is saying in so many words Doc is that you should paint it that new Dodge marina blue i believe it is called and grey!  That would be awesome.:clap: 

Dur


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## Lamar Holland (Dec 28, 2005)

paint the tractor whatever turns you on unless you are purposely going to auction/sell it off to a collector,. I have PM's Mark on several occasions,, I use to paint a lot myself, back in the days of Centari.. Painting and procedures are much different today,, I ordered some House of Color last month and wouldn't even want to say what it costs in 4 oz bottles,.,,,, It was a real wake up call for me. Best of liuck in which ever way you choose to go.


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## mark777 (Jul 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Durwood _
> *I think what Mark is saying in so many words Doc is that you should paint it that new Dodge marina blue i believe it is called and grey!  That would be awesome.:clap:
> 
> Dur *


Hey Dur, I looked at a Beaver III yesterday...a real basekt case, The starter is off, hydraulics disconneted at the pump..after seeing the original color, I immediately thought of you 

LH, I hear you on the "House of Kolor" products $$$....It's difficult to imagine that this product and BPS are made by the same company..Valspar.


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