# Identifying and repairing an industrial ford tractor



## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

Howdy guys. I am a new garlic farmer in Colorado and i recently traded a 70's IH dually flatbed for an old yellow ford tractor. It was in pretty rough shape, and needed new rear tires... I couldn't find any used ones so I bought new ag tires. I think the front tires need replaced too because they seem too small. Anyways I am trying to identify exactly what model and year this tractor is. I've done some light research but haven't found anything very solid yet. If anyone that knows more can help it'd be appreciated. Here are some pics of all the numbers and letters that I could find on the tractor. Thanks!


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

While sitting on the tractor. look down at your right foot..
THATS WHERE the assembly #'s are.. on the flat spot by the starter..
IF its a diesel, try to get the #'s off the injection pump tag.. DONT SCRAPE IT..
Get a spray can of paint remover/gasket stripper from wally world or the parts store..
Your probably gonna need it anyway..


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Hello Amheir_garlic, welcome to the forum.

Your photos are all of raised casting numbers. The numbers we need are *stamped* into the metal on a flat spot just above and behind the starter.


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## TraderMark (Nov 15, 2011)

Maybe these will help you locate the numbers.




















Mark


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

ok so here is the serial you've all been waiting for. lol. its a pretty rough pic, and i included my estimated outline of it which reads:

D 1 1 1 4 E
5 J 0 6 6 (could be 5 J 0 8 8)?
C 4 7 7 6 5 4


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## harry16 (Dec 8, 2011)

Hello amheir_garlic,

Here is my interpretation of your numbers:

*Model Code: D1114E*
Model: D11 = Ford 4000, Low Center of Gravity (LCG)
Engine: 1 = Diesel
PTO: 4 = Independent PTO, 540 rpm 
Transmission: E = Select-O-Speed (10x2 speed fwd/rev)

*Mfg. Date Code: 5J0??*
Mfg Date = September 1975

*Serial Number C477654* is consistent with 1975 manufacture. Made in USA.


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

*thanks*

Cool thanks that makes sense. It did seem pretty low to the ground, didn't realize they made a low center of gravity version. 

Im using it for plowing and tilling, so when I took off the smaller rear tires and replaced them with taller agricultural tires it raised the rear and made the front end look really low.

Even if I put taller front tires on it, it may still be too low. Not really wanting to buy new axle knees and spindles though, that'd be too much $. Guess i'll try to find some ~20" truck spare tires for the front and raise it as much as possible... any other ideas? thanks.


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

I would like to know if the front axle spindles are interchangeable... it looks like my axle knees are a little shorter than non LCG ones, not sure because I have none to compare to, but my question is if I buy the regular non LCG ford 4000 spindles, will they fit right into my current front axle knees and still benefit from the taller length? please let me know.


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

The front axle for a regular Ford 4000 is heavy duty for loader work, and has a single steering arm. See attached parts diagram. 

The LCG version of a Ford 4000 uses a Ford 3000 front axle. There are many 3000's in salvage for you to obtain spindles. Go to tractorhouse.com and scroll down to their "dismantled machine" section to find 3000's in salvage.

Save all of the LCG components from your tractor. I think you can find a buyer as some people living in hilly country prefer LCG tractors.


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

*ford 4000*

thanks for the help sixbales I appreciate it. I do have a few more questions though and would like a little clarification if possible. I will include diagrams to help display my question. I also have a few other pictures of problems with my front end. 










^ So I'm wondering if anyone knows what causes this to happen... the front tires are leaning inward. The other front tire is flat which is why it is so exaggerated in this picture but its still noticeable when both are inflated. Is this a bushing in the spindle that's worn out? or the spindle itself? or the axle arms that need adjusted? 










^ Here you can really see how low the front of the tractor is and it's causing me alot of issues. It's only like a couple inches off the ground. When I go to use my PTO tiller in the back it hardly even touches the ground even when I lower it to full depth. I'm considering ordering the stock 5.50-16 front rims and tires and seeing if that raises it enough, but if not I'll have to look into other options such as spindles. 










^ Here is my other question..... In picture #1 is my current setup (LCG axle arms and spindles). Now if I get some used Ford 3000 NON-LCG spindles will they fit like picture #2 which would be ideal and raise the front end of the tractor, or will they fit like #3 and the extra length would just go up through the top and be wasted?



thanks for any help guys


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

*bump*

bump please

any ideas anyone??


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## tcreeley (Jan 2, 2012)

That is a low looking front end. Hard to say what is going on. Those aren't the original rims and tires on the front from what you say about going back to the stock sizes. - Is your front axle busted or bent? That is the only other thing I can think of. -- Good luck.

Rear tire doesn't look right either- new ag tire on an industrial tractor? Someone was mix and matching?


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

*Tractor*

So when I got this tractor it had the turf tires on the rear and the rims were completely rotted out and since I needed to use the tractor for plowing and tilling I got new ag tires for the rear. I didn't realize until now that it's an LCG model. That's why the front tires are so small.

As far as I can tell there's nothing broken with the front axle or anything.


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

*Tractor*

Can anyone answer the question about the longer spindles that I drew the diagram for please thanks


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

For the front spindles to rock inward at the top, I would suspect worn king pin bushings.

Jack up the the front axle on one side, grasp the wheel top and bottom, and try to rock it in and out vertically. If it rocks, the king pins and bushings are ready for replacement. Common repair item.

The 3000 front axle from a standard tractor is different than the low profile unit. The front axle will be straight to add height to the front, instead of squatted down to put the machine lower to the ground. I believe the king pins (spindles in your description) are the same with both axles. A quick discussion with the parts folks at a salvage yard, or with New Holland (these king pins with the wheel spindles are still available as replacement parts in most areas) will clarify that issue.


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## TraderMark (Nov 15, 2011)

I think your best bet might be to measure the red part on your machine in your hand drawn diagram, then find a friend, neighbor, colleague or someone with a 3000, 4000 4600, etc ag tractor and measure that same part on it. If the ag tractor part is longer, you'll need to get the knees (red part) and the spindles (blue part) from an ag tractor to lift your machine's front end. Just buying the spindles (blue part) is going to work like #3 in your drawing. The thrust bearing in the bottom of the knee (red part) rests on a flat surface near the bottom of the spindle (blue part) so any additional length would extend from the top.

Mark


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

Thanks guys that helps


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

So I got my new front rims and tires on. They are 5.50-16. It seems to have raised the front end of the tractor quite a bit. I also deflated the rear tires (new Mitas Ag 12.4-28s) to ~9psi. I have the FEL hydraulics all taken apart right now for rebuilding so I havent tested it out yet, but its looking much better. I think I'll leave it like this rather than spending hundreds more $ to get new axles/spindles etc.


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

*another question*

ok guys got another question for whoever knows: 










here is a pic of what is supposedly the axle used in this tractor. The LCG one is bent to allow it to sit lower. Does anyone know if I could just flip the axle to face the same front-back orientation but flop the angle of it to make it taller instead of shorter? 

hope this makes sense, thanks for help


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Never tried what you suggest, so took a look at a neighbor's D1114E. I see one major issue, king pin inclination.

The axle ends with the front spindles are forged with an angle that allows the main beam to have that drop and still allow for the front wheels to set a couple degrees closer at the bottom than at the top. It would appear that flipping the main beam would result in a considerably greater positive camber than the tractor is designed for and that puts additional stress in the front wheels. 

There is another issue that could likely be overcome, and that is the location of the frame bump stops that keep the axle from swinging too far. That is for roll over protection.

One other caution I have for your earlier post regarding the wheel swap. The industrial loader requires much heavier wheels to accommodate the stresses of that loader than the ag wheels are designed to handle.

There is nothing worse than a tractor breaking a wheel and dropping one side of the front axle, almost always results in flipping the tractor.


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

hi, the 5.5-16 fronts look to be rated at 1100lbs each. as long as i dont try to lift over 1000 lbs i should be fine. all im using the fel for is moving manure and dirt.

thanks for the info though, i will keep that in mind when lifting heavy loads. i see what you mean about the axle spindle angle, doesnt look like flipping it would work. ill just keep it how it is.

thanks


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## BILL CROOK (Aug 30, 2010)

I'm an old member -- not been on this site for years. Not sure this is how to go about getting a question answered but here goes. Ford 3000: Hydraulic lines shake / vibrates constantly when the engine is running. Would the problem be bad hydraulic pump ?? Any other diagnosis ?? How fix ?? Thanks


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

Howdy BILL CROOK,

Welcome back to the tractor forum. It's been a long time! 

As you suggested, pulsating hydraulics are normally attributed to pump problems. Put a rebuild kit in your pump.


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## BILL CROOK (Aug 30, 2010)

Thank yopu sir !! I shall give that a try.
I 'm not a mechanic but i surmised as much -- pump trouble.


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

hi there, another question for you guys 


on my fuel tank there are 2 holes, one for fuel, and one situated right behind the cluster. 

here is a pic i found showing what im talking about










does anyone know what this is? mine is currently uncovered and splashing fuel around 

also anyone know where the diesel fuel return line enters the tank? 


thanks.


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## TraderMark (Nov 15, 2011)

The part you have circled in red is the fuel gauge sending unit. I think it should have two wires attached to it.
Most of the Fords around your vintage had a little stub pipe that stuck out of the filler neck, perpendicular to the neck that the return line attached to.

HTH,
Mark


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

Hey guys, back again, made it through last year but the tractor was due for some good maintenance. Getting it ready for this years season now that spring is arriving.

Been having a really rough time getting it to start. The only way I can get it to start right now is to give a couple small squirts of starter fluid (I know this is bad to do). I try to start it as few times as possible this way, mainly only for troubleshooting and to move it into/out of garage.

When I do get it running, it seems to run smooth, but I do remember the end of last year it would sometimes die after running it hard for an hour or two, and then not want to start back up, even with starting fluid, until the next day.

So I got a new big battery, the 4DLT, and it has lots of power, but the tractor still wont start. Did a fuel filter change, air filter cleaning, oil and filter change, coolant flush, and then bled the fuel system. Even checked my valve spacing. Still just cranks and cranks until the starter negative wire begins to smoke from melting the rubber coating. (after multiple tries of starting it)

I am thinking at this point that the starter may have welded the brushes? due to using weak car batteries last year. So I have just ordered a new starter.

Oh I have also taken off the FEL assembly completely for now. I need to get one of the large cylinders repaired. The seal inside the cylinder is cut, and the metal also scratched. Wondering where/how to get a replacement for that.

But in the meantime just need to get it starting reliably for mowing and ploughing.

I have the independent PTO, anyone know where the lever to turn this on and off is? I think mine is missing.

Thanks for any help.


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

Howdy amheir garlic, welcome back to the forum.

Your tractor's engine probably has low compression which limits its ability to start. Faster cranking speed will aid starting. Clean your battery, starter, solenoid, and ground connections to bare metal. Tow starting will also turn it over faster for starting.

Your fuel supply is marginal, as indicated by the engine quitting after running hard for a couple of hours, and not starting thereafter. Make sure that your fuel cap vent is open.

There is a fuel screen up inside the tank (attached to the fuel shut-off valve) that may need cleaning. If you have a sediment bowl, there is a screen in the top of it that may need cleaning. If you have fuel lift pump, there is a screen in the inlet side of it. If you have a CAV injection pump, there is a small filter in the inlet to it (take extreme care not to get dirt into the injection pump).

I would also pull the injectors and have them checked/serviced. Any improvement in spray pattern and discharge pressure may help with starting.

Another thing to check....Is your CAV injection pump set on 0 degrees timing? There are timing marks stamped into the flange on the mounting base. Advanced timing on the injection pump yields more power, but makes it hard starting. The manual says to set it on zero.

Does your injection system have a small stream of return flow to the tank?

See attached parts diagram. Item #56 is the PTO handle, and #36 is the valve it controls.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

The Ford 1975 through 1981 4000 LCG would normally have been equipped with a diesel cold start kit when sold in cold climate states. That kit consisted of the intake manifold glow plug, the ignition switch with a heater position, and fuel lines, wires, and various bits to plumb the glow plug into the fuel system. If yours is so equipped there will be a single glow plug with wiring and a diesel line attached, located on top of the intake manifold above the center cylinder.

If you have that option check your ignition switch to be sure it is sending power to the glow plug when held in the heat position. Also check the glow plug for continuity to be sure it is not burned out.

If you do not have the optional cold start kit, no big deal. Continue using starting fluid. The top piston ring was still located low enough on that series of diesel that a shot or two of starting fluid would not make the engine ether dependent. Ford actually sold a dealer option of a ether start kit for that engine. KATS still sells the kit (Amazon, Ebay, etc) for older engines so they will start on cool days.


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

Thanks for the help guys. 

I dont believe nine has the cold start package, I've never seen it on the intake, but I'll double check. 

What actually happens when it becomes ether dependent? Don't understand how that works. Good to know a few shots won't hurt it though. 

I'll try to check my CAV pump timing but I may need a little more instruction on that. I did do a little rebuild on the top half of the CAV last year, and I was extremely careful not to get any dirt in there, but say worst case some got in that I didn't see, what's the worst that would happen? Irreversible damage? Should I rebuild the whole thing and clean it all out? I need to try to find the filter in there too.

How do I test my compression and if it's low how do I fix that?

I'm ordering new injectors on eBay as they are only 40-50 bucks each.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Ether dependency occurs on newer cleaner burning diesels with the top compression ring located near or at the top of the piston. What ether does is explodes in lieu of burning, that explosion will torque the top piston ring and round the upper outside edge. That rounding reduces the seal in the chamber and lowers compression. Once that occurs the engine will be very difficult to start, even in warm weather. 

Compression testing is performed with a compression tester that replaces an injector in the cylinder to be tested. The repair manual lists acceptable compression levels, and the allowable deviation from cylinder to cylinder.

There are two types of compression testing that are normally performed. One is peak compression where the engine turns over three or four times and pumps the gauge to its highest reading. This is done at each cylinder. The other is bleed off compression testing where the time it takes a cylinder to bleed off the highest pressure is measured. Again each cylinder is checked.

If a diesel mechanic knows what they are doing, they will listen to each cylinder with a mechanics stethoscope and determine whether compression is bleeding out through the valves, or down past the compression rings. That allows them to guestimate what repairs will be required. 

Low compression indicates mechanical wear, and an engine tear down then determines the extent of wear and what is required in the way of engine rebuilding.

Complicated response to your question, but this is the general explanation.

Myself, I prefer to have a dynamometer test before paying the big bucks for a competent mechanic. If my power is below rated levels, I just order a rebuilt long block engine as that is nearly always less expensive than fooling around trying to do the rebuild or paying big money for a competent diesel mechanic to rebuild my old engine.


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

Thanks, I like complicated responses.

I had her mowing today for 2 straight hours with the brush hog. My tach is broken at the moment but I was probably running it about 75% power. She did great and I had no problems. Did have to start it with ether though. Waiting on that new starter to arrive.

I took a few pics of some leaks I have, maybe someone can identify them while I'm looking through the repair manual.

One leak is oil coming from the left side of the engine, I'm guessing it's overflow but could be the pressure line.




  








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Another leak coming from the lower middle of the steering column, I was in there once to replace the top seal, but guess I gotta go back and replace more.




  








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Also I have a pic of my PTO cables current status: bent over and broken? Probably gotta order a new one and open that top plate and see what's inside. There is also a pretty loud whine coming from inside that plate. Any ideas what that might be?




  








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Last pic is of some pretty thin smoke during idle. Just wondering if this is normal. When i floor it, it puffs out a little black smoke, then as it reaches a steady high rpm there is no smoke.




  








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Thanks all


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

Got my starter, about to put it on and see if that solves the starting issue. 

I will need to tackle this PTO soon. It is permanently engaged and the pto cable pulley is broken as you can see in the pics. I have looked through the entire service manual for information on the SOS PTO. It doesnt mention it anywhere. Only the foot pedal independent ptos.

Is there anyone familiar with the SOS PTO that can help? 

Thanks.


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## amheir_garlic (Mar 18, 2017)

Put the starter on, and it works way better than the old one. Spins over much faster and doesn't get hot. Think I may have welded the old one together with low voltage batteries :/

Atleast I finally got it to start without ether!


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## GreenHand (Oct 31, 2020)

RC Wells said:


> The Ford 1975 through 1981 4000 LCG would normally have been equipped with a diesel cold start kit when sold in cold climate states. That kit consisted of the intake manifold glow plug, the ignition switch with a heater position, and fuel lines, wires, and various bits to plumb the glow plug into the fuel system. If yours is so equipped there will be a single glow plug with wiring and a diesel line attached, located on top of the intake manifold above the center cylinder.
> 
> If you have that option check your ignition switch to be sure it is sending power to the glow plug when held in the heat position. Also check the glow plug for continuity to be sure it is not burned out.
> 
> If you do not have the optional cold start kit, no big deal. Continue using starting fluid. The top piston ring was still located low enough on that series of diesel that a shot or two of starting fluid would not make the engine ether dependent. Ford actually sold a dealer option of a ether start kit for that engine. KATS still sells the kit (Amazon, Ebay, etc) for older engines so they will start on cool days.



My tractor is an earlier model. I have a:

Year 1972. 3 Cyl. diesel 
M/N: D4012K (same as Ford 44012)(4400 Industrial)
S/N: C332715
Tractor #: C332715(G)

It has been good stating machine over the years, except below 30F. It has always started on 2 cylinders and within 30sec, brought in the 3rd, running smoothly with plenty of power. Over the last year, it has become difficult to start unless it is hot. I have new replacements of the injectors, fuel filter and injector pump. I had these installed by a local diesel mechanic, so I feel certain they are properly done. The only conclusion I can come up with now is low compression. An inframe overhaul my be considered except my engine does not have cylinder sleeves...so i am thinking it would be a poor investment. I was reading the manuals and discovered some of these came with a glow plug. The one for this tractor also has a fuel port on it as well. Not sure how the fuel is sent to the glow plug. 

Has anyone added this to their diesel? 

Anyone here have a thought on the effectiveness of such a non-factory such a mod?

Or is it best to just hit it with a little ether until is just wears out and dies?


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Howdy Greenhand, welcome to the tractor forum.

Below is a U-Tube video illustrating how a thermostart works. You hold key or pushbutton in the "heat" position for 25-30 seconds to heat the intake manifold with fire. Then crank the engine. Really helps starting in cold weather.






If your thermostart unit is not working, you can get a replacement for less than $25. 

You can also install a block heater in your engine and plug it into electrical power about an hour or two before you want to crank the engine. Many guys in cold weather country use block heaters. 

In a well worn diesel engine, a small whiff of ether does not hurt the engine. The thing is, don't use too big of a dose of ether.


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

GreenHand said:


> My tractor is an earlier model. I have a:
> 
> Year 1972. 3 Cyl. diesel
> M/N: D4012K (same as Ford 44012)(4400 Industrial)
> ...


If I understand this right, you have a Thermostart device in the manifold?
There should be a reservoir on the firewall, under the filler neck on the fuel tank (see #1 in attached pdf).
The reservoir holds fuel for the preheating, on later models the reservoir was omitted and only the fuel standing in the lines were used at preheating. That piping is more simple, like this aftermarket replacement:
https://www.agrilineproducts.com/ford-fordson-heater-plug-conversion-pipe-3-cyl-7823
If your reservoir is missing, you can easily make your own piping, with a T-connection and some tubing, that works like the later type.

After preheating you crank and heat, and the injection pump delivers the fuel via the return line.
A proper use of a Thermostart is shown here (Caution: First seconds are extremely loud):


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