# UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start



## Bart1080 (Jun 1, 2021)

Every time I start this tractor from COLD, its extremely difficult...cranks over before it finally kicks in almost flattening the battery. In fact, generally, I need to put the battery on the charger and swap it for the spare just been charged each morning. It was built in the 89 and is 3 cylinder Diesel, low hours. Once started, it goes all day and can stop and start the tractor in seconds with no problems. Its a relatively low hour tractor and spent a bit of time and money fixing up expected issues when I bought it 12 months ago - clutch, thrust bearing, alternator stator, loose wires to alt & starter, handbrake rod, stiff/seized 3pl lever and this starting from cold is the only remaining issue.

It cranks over very strongly, the compression is good.
Pulled the injectors out and tested for pressure and spray, all looks good and to spec.
The glow plug took a while to heat and wasn't sure if the valve was opening correctly, ordered a new one and replaced it.
Replaced the glow plug and on testing yesterday, still fails to throw a flame as no fuel (or very little) is being released.

As a test, a split second squirt of a "hard start" spray in the air intake and it instantly starts every time from dead cold.

Looking down the manifold, the glow plug now gets red hot really fast but there is just no fuel or just a few drops being released through the glow plug to start the fire. We bleed the line but still struggling to get any fuel to be released. If there is a dribble of fuel, looking down the intake, I can see a "small" flame up for a second.

So now its back to troubleshooting a bit further down the line with the next being the small canister that feeds the diesel into the thermo.

Just struggling to find info on how the fuel is released into the glow plug - under pressure or gravity?

I've read Ford 4000 diesel starting procedure with some good info from PumpGuy and BillS.

Looking at this, I'm now wondering if there is enough fuel being pumped/dumped into the canister. Pic below with the 3 fuel lines going into it.
I'm assuming the canister is just gravity feeding the diesel to the thermostarter??? or is it under some pressure??
How do I test this theory - that there is enough fuel being dumped into the canister?
Does the manual pump prime (see second image - item No:2) meant to push fuel into this canister? The manual says press this 20 odd times from memory before a cold start.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Hi Bart1080, welcome to the forum. 

Check fuel flow from cannister at the thermostart . The thermostart is basically an ignitor. Once it gets hot enough it opens a little valve to let fuel flow through a hot coil which should ignite the fuel. It can take awhile to get to this temperature. Make sure that you have good electrical connections to the thermostart. Heat it for a minimum 30 seconds before cranking. 

A block heater is a better tool for cold weather starting. Plug it in 2 hours before starting the engine and it will crank like a warm weather start.


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## Bart1080 (Jun 1, 2021)

BigT said:


> Check fuel flow from cannister at the thermostart . The thermostart is basically an ignitor. Once it gets hot enough it opens a little valve to let fuel flow through a hot coil which should ignite the fuel. It can take awhile to get to this temperature. Make sure that you have good electrical connections to the thermostart. Heat it for a minimum 30 seconds before cranking.


Thanks for your response BigT. all those checks have been done = replaced thermo, good electrical connection, confirmed thermo works and a good 30sec heat which by this stage have visually confirmed the thermo is red hot. 

I just think there isn't the fuel being delivered to the thermo.
Taking the line off the thermo, nothing really comes out of the line. 
Do you know if the delivery is gravity fed from the canister or under pressure?

The engine is basically the same as a Fiat 450/500 from memory,


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Fuel delivery to the thermostart is gravity feed. It should be easy to check out. You may have a blockage somewhere


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## Bart1080 (Jun 1, 2021)

Tkx BigT, 

Correct, fuel delivery is gravity fed. Opening the canister the level was very low, but clean and no blockages. Not sure if I buggered up the seal on opening, but it looks like it won't seal back up airtight and so will replace the seal.

It appears there is only minimal fuel being dumped in there and hence next to nothing being able to drop into the thermo. Thinking given the injectors tested are to spec/new there is little being fed from them into the canister.

Need to work out why or look at alternatives to fix it.

As a guess, I'm thinking this has been like it for many many years as the person I purchased it from had said it sat in the shed for a lot of years un-used. Aside from the initial problems identified and now fixed with the clutch, PTO fingers, alt & starter....I can see why he had left it un-used for many years as he was not mechanically minded, probably didn't want to pay a decent sum to fix the problems and the years of difficulty starting probably just gave up trying. I can see telltale signs where others before me had looked at the injectors and other "fuel" parts potentially trying to solve the same issue as myself.

Feeling like I'm getting closer given we've now identified that the canister isn't being filled with fuel which obviously makes creating a flame at the thermo impossible 

If all else fails, I may simply add in a custom mod to easily open and spray a split second dose of "hard starter" into the intake as the previous test proved it starts within 1 second on turning the engine over.....but ideally I want to solve the issue if possible.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Can u fill the canister by hand for the initial start.. THEN let the injector return fill it from there.??
Cuz the engine has to be running inorder for the canister to fill..


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## Bart1080 (Jun 1, 2021)

Correct, but even after running the engine, it's not filling. Not sure how long you need to run the engine.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

If your canister is filling by the injector return line from the top of the injectors and your just idling the engine... it’ll never fill up..
Look on the back side of the top cover, is there a hard line going up to the injectors and connected to the pump w a banjo bolt.??
If yes, take the bolt out of the top cover and check to see if the tiny orifice is open.. it gets clogged up with rust from the inside of the pump..
You’ll have to clear it out..
Good luck


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## Bart1080 (Jun 1, 2021)

Out of interest, do you know if the canister's lid has to be airtight?
ie: so no air gets into the fuel system/lines?

The reason I'm asking is maybe I could level the lid off and crank the revs up to see if and how much/if any diesel is being dumped into it.

If I cant find the fault, mabe add a tee into one of the lines to attach a squeeze bottle for the purposes of simply ensuring its filled up for the first cold start of the day??


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Idk about that.. I did just recall that the flame gets sucked down by the vacuum of the intake while it’s cranking.. I wonder if the helps w the fuel being sucked thru the g plug, hence pulling the fuel to fill the canister.??
But once the starts, the plug closes and then it it’s up to the injection pump to refill it..


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## Bart1080 (Jun 1, 2021)

....Silly question, whats the fuel pump (item 2) meant to do in the diagram from my original post. Specifically, when looking at the starting instructions, it says prime/press the priming lever 20 odd times. 

Is it meant to create enough pressure to fill the canister that drops fuel onto the glow plug? 
If so, then in theory, if I've got the canister lid open I should see the canister filling as I press this lever 20 odd times correct??

Its been sitting with the mechanic for 3 months and are pushing to get this last bit finalised to pick up this weekend. 
He was talking of running a line from the injector pump to the line feeding the canister as a trial to see if the canister will be constantly full ready for the next cold start however it appear this already has this looking at the diagram and the tractor.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Yes, in theory u should see it filling while pumping the hp..
U should disconnect the line from the hp and the canister.. and blow that line out.. if it hasn’t been working, God only knows what’s plugging it..??
I would back blow it FROM THE CANISTER SIDE.. TO the hp side..
If there’s a wad of stuff blocking the line, u DONT WANNA blow it IN the canister.!! Good luck


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## Amateur2 (Nov 1, 2021)

I have a UTB 445 as well and it was always hard to cold start from day 1 (1975), even with the heater plug properly working.
Apparently some UTB445s were always hard to start and others were not, but no one can explain why this is.
The reservoir is filled from the overflow pipe from the injectors.
Open the reservoir and top it, leave it open, and turn on the heater switch for the heater plug and hold it switched on.
Do not crank the engine.
When the heater plug is hot enough, it lets in the oil to the air intake and it ignites, is this happening ?
Open the rubber pipe from the air intake and you will see it burning.
You need two people for this, one to hold the heater switch on and one to observer what is happening.
As long as the heater switch is held on, the oil should flow from the reservoir and burn until the reservoir is nearly empty.

The pipe you have marked "From the fuel pump" is the return pipe to the tank, it is not connected to any pump.
The pressure from the injector overflow pipe forces the oil back to the tank though that pipe.
The pipe you have marked "Thermostarter" is the heater plug or glow plug.


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## Bart1080 (Jun 1, 2021)

OK, forgot to post back my solution.
After trying a few possible fix's/diagnosing a few possible issues, it turns out the reservor canister wasn't filling. Wasnt sure why so we changed the "plumbing" and it now always fills and starts like a dream. Been running like this for 4 months and starting when cold, providing I use the heater coil for approx 45 seconds (you can hear when the fire has started in the manifold from the fuel in the canister dripping over the hot coil, it starts first time every time.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Remember way back when I had a 6.2 naturally aspirated Navistar diesel in my old long gone ford pickup and it had weak glo plugs so, in the winter, I'd take a blow dryer and direct the hot air in the air intake and it popped right off every time. A rag soaked in gasoline over the air intake did the same thing when there was no electric for a blow dryer available.

necessity is the mother of invention. You just had to be careful the rag didn't get sucked into the air intake...lol


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Back in the 5.7 Oldsmobile diesel days, I carried a can of Coleman camp fuel around for cold starts..
A cap full of that “white gas” started that engine EVERY TIME..
I had the fastest 5.7 Olds in the city..lol


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

thepumpguysc said:


> Back in the 5.7 Oldsmobile diesel days, I carried a can of Coleman camp fuel around for cold starts..
> A cap full of that “white gas” started that engine EVERY TIME..
> I had the fastest 5.7 Olds in the city..lol


The old 350 gas turned diesel motor...... another of GM's follies.


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