# Is my starter motor faulty only sparks? Hotwiring +screwdriver



## helpmethispieceof (9 mo ago)

I'm trying to test my starter motor with hot wire and screwdriver. All I'm getting is sparks no noise no sound nothing just sparks when connected.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

You will probably find the solenoid is kaput!!, most likely a pull in wire has parted and the solenoid has gone open circuit, have you bridged across the battery cable pole to the starter motor pole, this will show if the starter is kaput, make sure the tractor is in neutral before trying, I have to mention that and you will know because you are testing the starter.

Bridge from the red cable to the opposite pole and the starter should spin, let us know how that goes.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)




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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

He tested his starter solenoid and starter motor, it could have just been a bad solenoid.
If he had put his hot battery cable directly to the starter hot post it would have checked the motor.


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## helpmethispieceof (9 mo ago)

LouNY said:


> He tested his starter solenoid and starter motor, it could have just been a bad solenoid.
> If he had put his hot battery cable directly to the starter hot post it would have checked the motor.





LouNY said:


> He tested his starter solenoid and starter motor, it could have just been a bad solenoid.
> If he had put his hot battery cable directly to the starter hot post it would have checked the motor.


What does checked mean?


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Could be the starter drive/pinion gear is jammed in the ring gear and cannot be turned.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

helpmethispieceof said:


> What does checked mean?


To find out if the starter motor is ok, bridge across with the screw driver as I suggested and you will find out if the motor is ok.



BigT said:


> Could be the starter drive/pinion gear is jammed in the ring gear and cannot be turned.


He will find out if it is jammed after he does the above BigT.


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## JB Freeman (9 mo ago)

Use the screw driver to go across (bridge) from the Red Wire directly across the the large braid wire (that’s the wire the drives the actual starter motor) plus, be sure the Red wire is tighten down to the terminal it’s on before testing. If that Red wire was lose, like in the picture during your testing of the solenoid the solenoid would never work.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Screwdriver???........ I shoved one of these into a 4" piece of heater hose, used 10ga wire, spring loaded clips, and found out a long time ago it's much easier to BS anybody watching into thinking you know what your doing..... It doesn't scare the women and children nearly as much 

Save the $20 Snap-On Screwdriver


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

Bob Driver said:


> Screwdriver???........ I shoved one of these into a 4" piece of heater hose, used 10ga wire, spring loaded clips, and found out a long time ago it's much easier to BS anybody watching into thinking you know what your doing..... It doesn't scare the women and children nearly as much
> 
> Save the $20 Snap-On Screwdriver
> 
> View attachment 79356


That's fine for bypassing all the safeties and switch wiring and will work as good as my purchased remote starter.
Untill you try to bypass the solenoid and go straight to the starter windings, then it's a bit to light.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

LouNY said:


> That's fine for bypassing all the safeties and switch wiring and will work as good as my purchased remote starter.
> Untill you try to bypass the solenoid and go straight to the starter windings, then it's a bit to light.


Yep..... That's when I use one of these with the ends and wiring from a junk set of jumper cables and there even cheaper than the push button switch. Over the years, my Service Managers, Shop Foreman, and the Old Timers always seemed to kinda frown if they saw me using a screwdriver to make big arcing sparks on a piece of equipment. They just got me in the habit of not taking any chances of burning a customers equipment up, or the shop down, because of a fuel leak/explosive vapors. That's also a really good way to fry an ECM, dash cam, or backup camera

Harbor Freight Special


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## helpmethispieceof (9 mo ago)

FredM said:


> To find out if the starter motor is ok, bridge across with the screw driver as I suggested and you will find out if the motor is ok.
> 
> 
> 
> He will find out if it is jammed after he does the above BigT.


I did bridge across it sparked but that's all should I open it up and see if its stuck on anything and check if the solenoid needs to be replaced?


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## John Liebermann (Sep 17, 2018)

If you are getting sparks across those two terminals as I think you are describing, then you are bypassing the solenoid. So the problem is the starter and it is drawing current(hence the sparks) so there is something keeping the starter from turning, either an internal short or as been already mentioned stuck against the flywheel. Either way the starter needs to be removed or if this is a manual trans you can rock the tractor to rotate the engine. That could eliminate a stuck starter.


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## JB Freeman (9 mo ago)

helpmethispieceof said:


> I did bridge across it sparked but that's all should I open it up and see if its stuck on anything and check if the solenoid needs to be replaced?


Did you tighten the Red wire down before doing the above test?


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## bubbagoat (Nov 10, 2019)

JB Freeman said:


> Did you tighten the Red wire down before doing the above test?


That is where I would start as well, loose cable means sparks. Clean it and tighten it up and try again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tractor Forum


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## helpmethispieceof (9 mo ago)

bubbagoat said:


> That is where I would start as well, loose cable means sparks. Clean it and tighten it up and try again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tractor Forum


I did still nothing? Maybe I should open up the solenoid to see if its stuck on something?


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## John Liebermann (Sep 17, 2018)

And you still get sparks? There is a very small probability this is a solenoid issue. To make sure disconnect both leads from the solenoid and short the battery lead directly to the starter. If you get sparks(meaning a short to ground) then the starter for some reason is hung up.

Why did you have the battery side disconnected in the first place? that batt cable looks like it is poorly positioned relative to the starter terminal.

Your original test bypassed the solenoid so a logical conclusion is that the solenoid does not pay a part in this failure. *However,*, if the starer side of the solenoid is grounded internal to the solenoid then it could be an issue. That is why you want to isolate it from the test.


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## JB Freeman (9 mo ago)

helpmethispieceof said:


> I did still nothing? Maybe I should open up the solenoid to see if its stuck on something?


I’d disconnect the battery leads and then pull the starter so you can check it out off the tractor. Some auto parts stores can test the starter for you for free


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## JB Freeman (9 mo ago)

If you aren’t familiar with testing a starter here’s a common YouTube on bench testing a starter


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

It could be the solenoid and/or the carbon brushes. The starter you are working on has 4 contact brushes. If those brushes are worn, broken or burned, the starter will not turn and will burn the copper contacts on the rotor until it’s useless. That cap on the back end of the starter is easy to remove for brush inspection.
Wear disposable gloves because the carbon gets on everything. Spreads like graphite.

I had experienced an odd scenario with a similar Delco starter… I worked on a Massey Ferguson 135 for an orchard with the same symptoms described. At the end of the day, I found a vole or field mouse got into an open hole at the bottom of the bell housing and filled that bell housing full of bedding and crap that the starter gear pulled inside the windings and trashed the stater. All this was inside the starter motor housing. Not likely your issue… more validation that odd things will happen.
pictures below.









Burned rotor contacts
























broken (plastic) contact holder

















Also found this contact holders, threaded hole, striped out


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## helpmethispieceof (9 mo ago)

John Liebermann said:


> And you still get sparks? There is a very small probability this is a solenoid issue. To make sure disconnect both leads from the solenoid and short the battery lead directly to the starter. If you get sparks(meaning a short to ground) then the starter for some reason is hung up.
> 
> Why did you have the battery side disconnected in the first place? that batt cable looks like it is poorly positioned relative to the starter terminal.
> 
> Your original test bypassed the solenoid so a logical conclusion is that the solenoid does not pay a part in this failure. *However,*, if the starer side of the solenoid is grounded internal to the solenoid then it could be an issue. That is why you want to isolate it from the test.


Keep in mind this tractor has been sitting for 15 years


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

Doesn’t matter how long it sat. You have applied electrical power to the starter… how long was the screw driver in contact (making the electrical connection instead of the solenoid)?

The starter rotor I pictured, the owner kept holding the key in the start position, because he said, “the longer I held it in start, the better chance it would start.” Terrible idea!!
You can see the ends of the rotor, copper contacts, are white. They burnt through the phenolic shims between contacts and shorted out to the adjacent contacts.

The rotor I pictured could be rewound and repaired. However, the cost for rewinding is far more than a complete new starter.
Check your brushes.


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## Mudwallower (Dec 8, 2020)

Clean connections and apply dielectric grease to each connection to keep out water and oxygen that will otherwise cause corrosion all too soon. ALL CONNECTIONS, including grounds. The starter solenoid grounds to the starter body, the starter body grounds to the bell housing or transaxle or gearbox. Also one or both of your battery cables could be bad, so buy or borrow different ones to try and see if that makes a difference. If you have any of those "repair" battery clamps that bolt/clamp onto your old battery cables once the old clamp is sawn off. Then get new cable/s. Batteries (unless a sealed battery) sweat out sulfuric acid that gets into any crack of any connection to cause more corrosion. If still no luck take your starter to a local rebuild shop that does starters and generators to have them test it and if need be rebuild it.


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