# Advice with used E170



## Kxm9976 (7 mo ago)

Hello everyone,

I am in a market for a used lawn tractor. I know next to nothing about these machines. Any help will be much appreciated.

I have 0.5 acres to cut. The land is flat except that I have a walkout basement so there is a bit of a slope on either side of the house.

I want to spend the least amount of time mowing and will do it once a week. I need something that is fast, more or less easily maneuverable, and will have no problem going up and down on the sides of the house. I will only cut grass with the tractor, nothing else. I take good care of my equipment.

There is a local listing for a E170 with a 48” deck, 25hp engine that has 51 hrs. Looks to be in a decent shape based on the pics. The listed price is $1,900 OBO.

1) Would you recommend this tractor for what I need? I understand that it is not an X series, but it’s at least have the price of X3xx with similar specs.

2) How stable are these on slopes?

3) Is the transaxle going to be a problem given that I have a bit of elevation on the sides of the house (I will only cut grass)?

4) Is it easy to work on? I do quite a bit of my automotive work, so would prefer to do the little stuff myself.

Thank you in advance


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Good Morning Kxm9976, welcome to the tractor forum.

The John Deere E170 is a big box store tractor designed to compete with other mowers in that class. Being a Deere, I would expect it to be a pretty good mower. 



https://www.tractordata.com/lawn-tractors/003/2/3/3238-john-deere-e170.html


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

BigT said:


> Good Morning Kxm9976, welcome to the tractor forum.
> 
> The John Deere E170 is a big box store tractor designed to compete with other mowers in that class. Being a Deere, I would expect it to be a pretty good mower.
> 
> ...



BigT...................Those Big Box Store John Deere's are John Deere in name only............They are not any better quality then the MTD's, and other brands that the big box stores sell........Those have the 750 Hour, maybe, Briggs motors on them and are not near the quality of the X models thus the reason for the much lower price......

Not sure where you are located at but I would check the Tractorhouse website and see what else is around your area before I bought this one.......


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## Kxm9976 (7 mo ago)

unsquidly said:


> BigT...................Those Big Box Store John Deere's are John Deere in name only............They are not any better quality then the MTD's, and other brands that the big box stores sell........Those have the 750 Hour, maybe, Briggs motors on them and are not near the quality of the X models thus the reason for the much lower price......
> 
> Not sure where you are located at but I would check the Tractorhouse website and see what else is around your area before I bought this one.......


I am going to keep an eye out for an X3xx model. Missed a nice x340 with low hours, 25hp Kawasaki engine and 54” deck just yesterday for a great price.


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Kxm9976 said:


> I am going to keep an eye out for an X3xx model. Missed a nice x340 with low hours, 25hp Kawasaki engine and 54” deck just yesterday for a great price.


What part of the country are you located in?


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## Kxm9976 (7 mo ago)

unsquidly said:


> What part of the country are you located in?


Wester NY


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Kxm9976 said:


> Wester NY


Any of these close to you?




https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/search?Category=1188&ModelGroup=X300&Model=X304%7CX310%7CX320%7CX324%7CX330%7CX340%7CX350%7CX350R%7CX354%7CX360%7CX370%7CX380%7CX384%7CX390%7CX394%7CX465%7CX475%7CX485%7CX495&Manufacturer=JOHN%20DEERE&Price=1000%2A3500&Country=178&sort=6&lat=42.095417022705078&long=-79.242279052734375


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## Kxm9976 (7 mo ago)

unsquidly said:


> What part of the country are you located in?


Thanks for the tip on Tractor House. Some interesting stuff. I will keep an eye.


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## Kxm9976 (7 mo ago)

unsquidly said:


> Any of these close to you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


About 2hrs away. TractorPro Equipment has bunch of listings. They are a local JD dealer. I think I will stop by to see what they got. Maybe they can even bring something from another locations


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Here is another site to search on.....This will search all John Deere dealers and you can narrow it down however you wish......






Used Golf, Lawn & Turf Equipment For Sale | MachineFinder


Search MachineFinder to find used turf




www.machinefinder.com


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## Andrew 110 (Feb 20, 2020)

When I was working at the dealer we only sold S series and X series I asked why ant they told my the rest of them on made by MTD for John Deere the S series and X series are made by John Deere so if you want to John Deere I would get one of them. I would not get a AWS because of the hills.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

E170 usually comes with a Briggs 44S977 engine and a Tuff Torq K46 transaxle. Briggs 44S series of engines is a pretty good home owner engine if you adjust the valves every 200 hours as recommended in the service manual. Pay attention to the oil recommendation. Anything above 80 degrees, it says straight 30wt, 10w30 will cause it to burn oil.

K46 gets a lot of bad reviews on the internet. That has a lot to do with it being the most common transaxle sold in homeowner level conventional mowers today, so there are a hell of a lot of them out there. The two biggest problems with the K46 is that it only runs 3/4" axles, and it runs a fairly small cooling fan. 3/4" axles means it's not really meant for pulling a heavy load, or plowing snow. Small cooling fan means it heats up a lot going up a long, or fairly steep grade. Constantly pulling a loaded lawn cart up a long/steep grade is a sure way to kill a K46.

K46 can come in two different gear reduction ratios 28.01 & 21.53 ...... 28.01 is rated at a max torque of 171 ft lbs with 20" tires. 21.53 is rated at a max torque of 131 ft lbs of torque with 18" tires. The JD E-170, for some bewildering reason, comes stock with 22" rear tires (probably to increase ground speed)

So...... 3/4" axle with over sized tires from the factory, only 171 ft lbs of torque driving a 500lbs machine up a steep/long hill, with Tuff Torq's usual undersized cooling fan.... What could possibly go wrong with that? I'll show you.....

Here's the pan off the R/S drive of a JD Z525 zero-turn ($4,500 machine) with 187 hours on it I rebuilt last week to the tune of $600 parts/labor. That's supposed to be 10W30 oil, but this is what making a lot of left turns (RH discharge) mowing on a steep grade, with an undersized cooling fans does to the oil in a z-turn transaxle. _*"Well the guy shoulda changed the oil"*_. Yep.... every 100 hours. Only problem is there's no drain plug and it runs an internal filter.... You have to drop the entire unit (2 hours labor out/in) and pull the pan to get to the filter. If you try to just drop the pan in place, the reduction gear usually falls out, and then you'll play hell getting the pan to bolt back up.... I'm not a big fan of Tuff Torq, but I sure get a lot of work with their superb designs


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## Kxm9976 (7 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> E170 usually comes with a Briggs 44S977 engine and a Tuff Torq K46 transaxle. Briggs 44S series of engines is a pretty good home owner engine if you adjust the valves every 200 hours as recommended in the service manual. Pay attention to the oil recommendation. Anything above 80 degrees, it says straight 30wt, 10w30 will cause it to burn oil.
> 
> K46 gets a lot of bad reviews on the internet. That has a lot to do with it being the most common transaxle sold in homeowner level conventional mowers today, so there are a hell of a lot of them out there. The two biggest problems with the K46 is that it only runs 3/4" axles, and it runs a fairly small cooling fan. 3/4" axles means it's not really meant for pulling a heavy load, or plowing snow. Small cooling fan means it heats up a lot going up a long, or fairly steep grade. Constantly pulling a loaded lawn cart up a long/steep grade is a sure way to kill a K46.
> 
> ...


Lots of good info, thank you! What’s your opinion on K57 and K58? Looks like some X3xx series comes with these.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

*K58 TUFF TORQ*
1" axle 
217 ft lbs torque
23" tires
31.44 reduction
GARDEN TRACTORS

*K57 TUFF TORQ*
3/4" axle
188 ft lbs torque
22" tires
31.68 reduction
LAWN TRACTORS

Briggs 44S677 - 44S877 - 44S977........ 750 hour engines

Kohler Command Pro Engines CV23 - CV24 - CV25 1,500 hour engines

Kohler 7000 Series KT730 - KT735 - KT740 - KT745 1,000 hour engines


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## Kxm9976 (7 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> *K58 TUFF TORQ*
> 1" axle
> 217 ft lbs torque
> 23" tires
> ...


thank you! Are K57 and K58 more reliable than K47? Are they easier to work on/maintain?

Also, what do you mean by 1,000hr engine?


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Kxm9976 said:


> thank you! Are K57 and K58 more reliable than K47? Are they easier to work on/maintain?
> 
> Also, what do you mean by 1,000hr engine?


K58 is the heaviest built and most reliable Tuff Torq IHT. It's designed for use in a Garden Tractor, as opposed to just your standard Lawn Mower. That means it's designed to regularly pull a loaded lawn cart, or push snow, as opposed to just mowing a lawn.

750 - 1,000 - 1,500 ---- These are the normal life expectancy of these engines expressed in hours of operation and maintained at the service intervals stated in the OEM Service Manual.

44S Series Briggs is an average homeowner engine. 7000 Series Kohler is a higher end homeowner engine. Kohler Command Pros are commercial engines you see on higher end zero turns.

With Kawasaki engines..... FR Series is their standard, 750 hour, homeowner engine. FS Series is their higher end, 1,000 hour, homeowner engine. FX Series is their high end, 1,500 hour, commercial, air-cooled engine. FD Series is their high end, 1,500 hour, commercial, water-cooled engine.

The industry standard is an average homeowner runs about 50 hours per season, mowing a 1 acre lot, with a 48" deck. Bigger lot, use in extensive landscaping work/gardening, snow removal all add to the annual engine operating hours. Bigger deck, higher ground speed (zero turn), reduces annual engine operating hours.

200 hours on a 4 year old used mower, with a 48" deck, is about normal. 200 hours on a 2 year old used mower and it's been run pretty hard. It's not unusual to see a commercial lawn service mower get 500 hours per season. That's why they run higher ground speed zero turns, with 60+" decks to reduce the engine operating hours and they sell/trade them in every 3 years. The savvy operators will choose to always owe money on their machines. $300-$400 a month payment on a machine is just part of the business model when you're mowing 8-10 jobs per day at $50 a shot.....


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## Kxm9976 (7 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> K58 is the heaviest built and most reliable Tuff Torq IHT. It's designed for use in a Garden Tractor, as opposed to just your standard Lawn Mower. That means it's designed to regularly pull a loaded lawn cart, or push snow, as opposed to just mowing a lawn.
> 
> 750 - 1,000 - 1,500 ---- These are the normal life expectancy of these engines expressed in hours of operation and maintained at the service intervals stated in the OEM Service Manual.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much. Really appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge.

Searching online, I see many JD X3xx series lawn tractors with over 500 hrs. If they have one of these 750hr engines, what should I expect? Is the engine going to require a major repair or it will need to be replaced? Can regular maintenance extend the life of the engine?


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Kxm9976 said:


> Thank you very much. Really appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge.
> 
> Searching online, I see many JD X3xx series lawn tractors with over 500 hrs. If they have one of these 750hr engines, what should I expect? Is the engine going to require a major repair or it will need to be replaced? Can regular maintenance extend the life of the engine?


Bear in mind, these are AVERAGE life expectancy...... It's a bell curve --- 1/2 are shorter, 1/2 are longer. I buy/sell mowers and ATVs all the time. It's interesting to hear the seller change the tone of the conversation from when I first show interest in a machine and by the time I'm ready to talk $$$. I never tell a seller beforehand I do this as a business.

I'll give the machine the usual look over, then I break out some tools. I always bring a Leak Down Tester and an Electronic Crankcase Vacuum Gauge. Kohler requires you to have both tools to do warranty work for them and they require both test results when you're filling out their warranty claim forms. Tells you everything you need to know about the condition of a mower, or ATV, engine. Takes all the smoke and BS completely out of the conversation and the seller knows it by the time you're done running 10 minutes worth of test.

*LEAK DOWN TESTER*









*CRANKCASE VACUUM GAUGE*


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