# backhoe question...



## RollingThunderVet (Feb 28, 2020)

Looking to purchase my first small Utility tractor. My father has 5 acres to play on and im about to pick up 10 myself. My question is do the backhoe attachments come off? easily?
Im looking to have a FEL, backhoe, and ability to add others as we need them.


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## Just Wondering (Mar 25, 2018)

My friend did purchase a backhoe attachment for his tractor; however, he said he dedicated the tractor to using it because it was a pain to take on and off.
Loves having the backhoe.
Completed some tedious projects easily and cheaper than hiring it out.
But said he bought the 2nd used tractor because he dreaded the swap out.

However, he has no one to help him.

If you have someone to help and perhaps added 'quick connect' adapters, its certainly something I'd consider.

Do you want me to get the details on what he purchased? Just as a reference?

JW


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

Dad picked up a backhoe for the l255dt I grew up with. It is certainly more tedious to take off and on than any other 3 point attachment, but it's fiddling, not grunt work.

Fiddling, not grunt work would describe using it to. It just doesn't have the reach to get the job done without repositioning 5 times. It makes a great counterweight, since you can swing it to one side if you get an uneven load in the bucket, and will pull you out if stuck.
It's also great for lifting g the back end when it's time to chain up.

It doesn't get hooked up every year, but most years it does. It also stick out a fair bit and has a delicate cylinder that gets busted once a decade, so it tends to not be left on just to leave it on any more.

Swing cylinders lasted about 30 years before needing to be rebuilt. Had a fitting break last year too. I had to pull 2 other hoses to get to it

Dad would like to put it on his bigger machine to leave the Kubota for gardening, but the bigger machine put out about 150% of the backhoes rated flow. I've thought about running it off a remote, but figure something would go wrong and the backhoe valve stack would get damaged.


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## DK35vince (Jan 22, 2006)

RollingThunderVet said:


> Looking to purchase my first small Utility tractor. My father has 5 acres to play on and im about to pick up 10 myself. My question is do the backhoe attachments come off? easily?
> Im looking to have a FEL, backhoe, and ability to add others as we need them.


The backhoe on my compact tractor goes on/off fairly easily.
Takes me around 10 minutes or less to install and 5 minutes or less to remove.
(No helper needed, I use the backhoe controls to line everything up)


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

I have a frame mount back hoe, and I find it’s about a 5 minute job to take it on and off. It’s easier to off than on, because you have to get it lined up. 

With mine, you put the bucket and the stabilizers down like a tripod, them pull the two locking pins and drive away from it. It’s a one man job. Putting it back, you do a fiddle with it to get it lined up, but it’s not that bad.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

Right, get it close, hook up the hydraulics, then line it all up with the hydraulics. I even use the bucket to push the tractor back the final 9" or so.

On our setup, the power beyond ties in between the loader valve and the engine, so we've got to snake those lines through and secure them properly. I never gave it any thought hought before, but it is most likely that the hoe valve is the one that is set up for powerbeyond, and the loader valve was untouched. I'm going to have to look next time now.

I imagine the frame mounted factory back hoes are quite a bit quicker, and set up better hydraulically.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

Frame mount hoe is the only way to go in my opinion. I can’t imagine how unstable a three-point one would be, considering I can get the tractor rocking pretty good with the frame mounted one. I have the capability of lifting all the wheels off the ground


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Backhoe would be nice... The older I get, the more allergic I get to a shovel, and you can't find a 15-20 year old today that even knows how to use a shovel to hire for a job .

I still keep about 1/2 dozen shovels around for a specific occasion. When I get buddies over that are just drinking my beer and eating my food, I start passing out the shovels and say... "Here, I need a little help with a project when you finish that beer".

Takes about 5 minutes and they start making excuses and disappearing.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

marc_hanna said:


> Frame mount hoe is the only way to go in my opinion. I can’t imagine how unstable a three-point one would be, considering I can get the tractor rocking pretty good with the frame mounted one. I have the capability of lifting all the wheels off the ground


A turnbuckle tighten 3 point can be cinched down tighter than a frame mounted.


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## RollingThunderVet (Feb 28, 2020)

im looking at a MF 1528 and a Kubota 2620HSD both with FEL and Backhoe. Both 2009


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

RollingThunderVet said:


> im looking at a MF 1528 and a Kubota 2620HSD both with FEL and Backhoe. Both 2009


They both look like a good rig and would be great for all those jobs around the property. Just don't want to be digging basements for a living with one!
Talk to your dealer about the mount. Many manufacturers void any warranty if you install a three point hitch backhoe. With the weight of carrying it around on the back and working the crap out of it while digging, it could bust your tractor in half if you don't have the proper frame to support the hoe and re-enforce the tractors midship.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

RollingThunderVet said:


> im looking at a MF 1528 and a Kubota 2620HSD both with FEL and Backhoe. Both 2009


I'm assuming size isn't a limiting factor or you wouldn't have listed them. The MF is a bunch more tractor. 50% more weight is a huge difference and it will let you do more tasks.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

pogobill said:


> They both look like a good rig and would be great for all those jobs around the property. Just don't want to be digging basements for a living with one!
> Talk to your dealer about the mount. Many manufacturers void any warranty if you install a three point hitch backhoe. With the weight of carrying it around on the back and working the crap out of it while digging, it could bust your tractor in half if you don't have the proper frame to support the hoe and re-enforce the tractors midship.


Any 09 is going to be out of warranty and has presumably survived several years of work with the backhoe at this point. I would seriously question the design of a tractor that couldn't handle a properly sized backhoe. I think it is the Aluminum castings in the Kubotas that don't hold up to cycling since Aluminum fatigues (probably why the Kubota is so much lighter). If that is the case; I wouldn't want one for normal 3 point work that hasn't been beefed up. I am not sure if Kubota is still going with Aluminum. Seems a very poor choice of materials for a structural tractor component.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

It seems like a bad choice given the cost also.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

marc_hanna said:


> It seems like a bad choice given the cost also.


where were costs mentioned?


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

Groo said:


> where were costs mentioned?


Aluminum. Very high material cost compared to steel. Doesn’t make sense for structural tractor components.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm kinda thinking these tractors under consideration by RollingThunderVet have the frame mounted backhoe already.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

pogobill said:


> I'm kinda thinking these tractors under consideration by RollingThunderVet have the frame mounted backhoe already.


most likely, but possibly not. He might also start looking at different machines as well.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

marc_hanna said:


> Aluminum. Very high material cost compared to steel. Doesn’t make sense for structural tractor components.


ah. I thought you were talking tractor cost.
Aluminum does have its benefits. It is cheaper to machine, and easier to handle, so it probably is cheaper for Kubota over-all. they aren't doing it to boost MPG on the tractor.


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## scott f smith (Jun 29, 2019)

RollingThunderVet said:


> Looking to purchase my first small Utility tractor. My father has 5 acres to play on and im about to pick up 10 myself. My question is do the backhoe attachments come off? easily?
> Im looking to have a FEL, backhoe, and ability to add others as we need them.


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## DairyAyre83 (Oct 13, 2017)

I have the Allis version of the Massey Ferguson 1528, its a TLB. Backhoe comes off and on pretty easy with one person. Very quite, low vibration, well built machine!


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## 3 point (Sep 20, 2017)

Another day playing and as my wife says...you and your toys!!
Mine is a 1910 series compact Ford I bought new in 1984, used it 3 years cutting large acreage tracts, single handedly (using creative imagination) put a Woods FEL on it in 1988 with quick detach and quick couplers and can remove it in about 10 min. or less, reinstalling about 20-25 min. and refer to it as my diesel powered wheelbarrow but use it for pulling trees 3" dia, removing the cab off of my '78 F350 to restore plus a number of other tasks. To date my only expence has been two new used 21.5 - 16.1 turf tires @ 700.00, gentler in my yard and a new hydraulic pump 1200.00 plus numerous oil n filter changes, overloaded it lifting my '78 cab several times not to mention buckets "full" of broken concrete. Overall this little rig has been a gem for me. 
As for a backhoe, I just cannot justify the $$ for my needs but the box blade (counter wt.) and 3 point lift boom is appreciated as much as the FEL.
The last pic and "POP" goes the hydraulic pump. 






























Sent from my SM-T387V using Tapatalk


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## 3 point (Sep 20, 2017)

One last thing!!
Check "ALL" attachment mounting points" for cracks in the "tractor castings" a loose mount and you could have some real serious repair costs. I have seen one before... not good, casting doesn't flex like steel it just breaks.

Sent from my SM-T387V using Tapatalk


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

Groo said:


> ah. I thought you were talking tractor cost.
> Aluminum does have its benefits. It is cheaper to machine, and easier to handle, so it probably is cheaper for Kubota over-all. they aren't doing it to boost MPG on the tractor.


Aluminum can be quite finicky in a production manufacturing process. It is softer, but can also be very abrasive. Plus it also bonds to the cutters, which generally are orders of magnitude more expensive than the cutters for iron or steel. 

Sure aircraft aluminum is beautiful to machine with a high polished cutter and high pressure through coolant, but automotive grade cast aluminum chews up cutters like you wouldn’t believe. Additionally, these days the machining is incredibly cheap, very little margins.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

marc_hanna said:


> Aluminum can be quite finicky in a production manufacturing process. It is softer, but can also be very abrasive. Plus it also bonds to the cutters, which generally are orders of magnitude more expensive than the cutters for iron or steel.
> 
> Sure aircraft aluminum is beautiful to machine with a high polished cutter and high pressure through coolant, but automotive grade cast aluminum chews up cutters like you wouldn’t believe. Additionally, these days the machining is incredibly cheap, very little margins.


With hydraulic blocks, aluminum is significantly cheaper than iron. That is just material cost and machining operations. This is from multiple suppliers.
Add in in the case of a small tractors that people would be moving around lighter parts and the cost savings could blow up.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

Groo said:


> With hydraulic blocks, aluminum is significantly cheaper than iron. That is just material cost and machining operations. This is from multiple suppliers.
> Add in in the case of a small tractors that people would be moving around lighter parts and the cost savings could blow up.


I see the makings of a great manufacturing discussion. 

i think aluminum makes more sense in hydraulic sections. Less porosity and easier to get a better finish, plus better heat transfer.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

marc_hanna said:


> I see the makings of a great manufacturing discussion.
> 
> i think aluminum makes more sense in hydraulic sections. Less porosity and easier to get a better finish, plus better heat transfer.


It's used because of the ease of machining. Iron is called out for high pressures (much over 3000psi and the threads could rip out) or when the uneven expansion causes leaks.


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## deerhide (Oct 20, 2016)

Get a 40 or 50 year old Massey or Ford or IH (oh yes or a John Deere, almost forgot)with a loader that someone has rebuilt, 10 to 15 thousand for that. Buy a new three point hitch backhoe, that's another 10 thou I imagine, then just keep looking for the other gear as you need it, if you want a cab build it your self.This set-up will last 50 years on your place without much upkeep, simple to operate too, unlike a new, aluminum/electronic one!!


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## deerhide (Oct 20, 2016)

3 point said:


> Another day playing and as my wife says...you and your toys!!
> Mine is a 1910 series compact Ford I bought new in 1984, used it 3 years cutting large acreage tracts, single handedly (using creative imagination) put a Woods FEL on it in 1988 with quick detach and quick couplers and can remove it in about 10 min. or less, reinstalling about 20-25 min. and refer to it as my diesel powered wheelbarrow but use it for pulling trees 3" dia, removing the cab off of my '78 F350 to restore plus a number of other tasks. To date my only expence has been two new used 21.5 - 16.1 turf tires @ 700.00, gentler in my yard and a new hydraulic pump 1200.00 plus numerous oil n filter changes, overloaded it lifting my '78 cab several times not to mention buckets "full" of broken concrete. Overall this little rig has been a gem for me.
> As for a backhoe, I just cannot justify the $$ for my needs but the box blade (counter wt.) and 3 point lift boom is appreciated as much as the FEL.
> The last pic and "POP" goes the hydraulic pump.
> ...


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## deerhide (Oct 20, 2016)

A real good setup and that is one honey of a truck!


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