# Which to pull



## shieldslx (Apr 22, 2010)

I have an Allis 808GT in great condirion with a briggs ohv IC I put in it I think 17.5hp, Its really strong with a3spd. I also have an Allis 712 hydro with a k301 kohler Im restoring, which should I pull?


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## fordf150farmer (May 1, 2010)

well i am not a puller, and i dont claim to be. but, i am assuming the hydro is a hydrostatic drive? if that is the case, then i would not pull it. i have never been impressed by hydrostat's pulling capabilities in any situation. now if that is not what the hydro means then completely disreguard this.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

shieldslx said:


> I have an Allis 808GT in great condirion with a briggs ohv IC I put in it I think 17.5hp, Its really strong with a3spd. I also have an Allis 712 hydro with a k301 kohler Im restoring, which should I pull?


I would do a side by side comparison to see which performs better. Personally, and not to contradict the other poster, but my John Deere 316 with a hydrostatic, pulls beautifully, without a hint of strain until the wheels begin to spin out. Going down hills with a heavy load on the other hand, I feel more comfortable with gears holding back the load. But that's just me.


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## fordf150farmer (May 1, 2010)

music in a bott said:


> I would do a side by side comparison to see which performs better. Personally, and not to contradict the other poster, but my John Deere 316 with a hydrostatic, pulls beautifully, without a hint of strain until the wheels begin to spin out. Going down hills with a heavy load on the other hand, I feel more comfortable with gears holding back the load. But that's just me.


well i am glad that yours performs well! lol ya know, i just have never seen one (in my experience) that could really keep up with a geared tractor. my dad has a cub cadet hydrostat and my grandpa has a husquarvana hydrostat and when you hook up a heavy load in the wagon (maybe say a load of hedge) they really struggle, and our geard craftsman would just do a better job pulling the load. that being said, i have also seen a couple of really crappy geared tractors. we have an old crafstman that will bearly take off in 6th gear... so yea your probably right about needing a side by side comparison.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

fordf150farmer said:


> well i am glad that yours performs well! lol ya know, i just have never seen one (in my experience) that could really keep up with a geared tractor. my dad has a cub cadet hydrostat and my grandpa has a husquarvana hydrostat and when you hook up a heavy load in the wagon (maybe say a load of hedge) they really struggle, and our geard craftsman would just do a better job pulling the load. that being said, i have also seen a couple of really crappy geared tractors. we have an old crafstman that will bearly take off in 6th gear... so yea your probably right about needing a side by side comparison.


Well, the truth is that the hydostat pulls every bit as well as gears, until you start to go over rough terrain. Whenever this is the case, then the speed keeps changing, and you obviously need to keep adjusting the hydrostatic stick control. My 990 9 speed gear driven tractor maintains the same speed irregardless of the terrain. I often wondered if all the hydrostat drive tractors do this as well, as mine will do it even if I'm not pulling a load. I need to keep adjusting the lever to maintain a constant speed. What better oppertunity to have both types and do a side by side! I was only pointing out that the hydrostatic drive on my tractor doesn't fret about throwing down the power if you need it, you just have to keep adjusting to the terrain for speed is all.


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## fordf150farmer (May 1, 2010)

music in a bott said:


> Well, the truth is that the hydostat pulls every bit as well as gears, until you start to go over rough terrain. Whenever this is the case, then the speed keeps changing, and you obviously need to keep adjusting the hydrostatic stick control. My 990 9 speed gear driven tractor maintains the same speed irregardless of the terrain. I often wondered if all the hydrostat drive tractors do this as well, as mine will do it even if I'm not pulling a load. I need to keep adjusting the lever to maintain a constant speed. What better oppertunity to have both types and do a side by side! I was only pointing out that the hydrostatic drive on my tractor doesn't fret about throwing down the power if you need it, you just have to keep adjusting to the terrain for speed is all.


haha you are truely lucky in my eyes. (and im not trying to be darogatory to you or your tractor, im just saying that ours straight up suck! lol) with ours, it doesnt matter about terain really you could be on black top and they still just wont get it done.. kinda makes me think of a slipping clutch in a 5 speed pick up. ours have the foot controls so if we want, we can set the cruise control to keep the speed constant. both of ours just dont appear to have the lugging capacity that i think they should have. i would think that a 27 hp tractor would be a better lugger than a 20 hp tractor. idk, maybe we got flukes from the factory. of course maybe if i could get my family to by a good quality tractor (jd) like yours we wouldnt have an issue with it. lol but they wont =( dont get me wrong, they are great for light work and mowing, but if you have to move a load of pavers or something like that, you can just forget abot it. 

so just get out the good ol pick em up truck and do it like that:thumbsup:e


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## fordf150farmer (May 1, 2010)

but back on topic, find yourself a good load, and try to arange a side by side for the two mowers, and try and get a vid and post it up ! lol


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

Even better......Tie them together with a big ol' chain and let them battle it out with 2 drivers! May the best tractor win! As Ford stated, get lots of video of the smoke and debris.


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## DeereB87 (Jul 31, 2010)

I dont pull garden tractors, mostly just my ol B...but talking to some friends that due and they say dont go with the hyrdo.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

I like the positiveness of the gear on gear too! Do they state why that is the case?


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## HHHFABICATION (Nov 11, 2010)

I heard that the hydro's wore out quickly. So I would go with the Alice 808 GT. Because it has a stronger transaxle.


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## Texas TRex (Aug 5, 2010)

I would with go with the Briggs OHV engine in the Allis, should have a little more power if it's a 17.5. The 'hydro' type drivetrains are not as common in pulling....might be a little trickier to get to work as well, although I'm sure it could be made to work with these hp ranges.


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## Mickey (Aug 14, 2010)

Food for thought. As for durability of a HST, all depends upon design. Little spare capacity on those HST found in low end mowers. But that is not the same HST found in the expensive GT's and up into the full size tractors. What you will find in an HST not found in a gear trans is a pressure relief valve. Max hyd pressure is limited by this valve and as such limits the power that can be transmitted. Engs have set that relief pressure point to some level that prevents *oops! something broke* point. There will be a safety factor built in to extend service life and address possible component failure due to age/use. For these reasons a HST will not likely match a manual gear trans in the same size equipment and certainly not when putting the equipment to a use that far exceeds in original design parameters.

If one were to use a HST that can handle the output of the engine and were to tweak the relief pressure, there should be no reason why an HST can't get the job done. The infinitely variable speed an HST offers should be of some benefit IMO.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

That's a good point Mickey. This isn't a fair comparison, but years ago I went to a Truck/ tractor pull where the show began with allowing folks to pull the sled with their stock rigs. Far and away, those with automatics did better than those with manuals, as they had to shift and lost their momentum. Personally, I prefer gears, like those in my 990, but I can honestly say that the hydro in my 316 would hold up to anything a geared transmission in the same class could take. I just cringe at the mere thought of hammering any equipment in the sense we are talking about!


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## moe7404 (Mar 1, 2011)

the hydro should give you a safety factor.


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