# Choosing new tractor



## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

I am fairly new to tractors. I own a fwd 1998 Massey Ferguson 1260 with a loader. I has about 800 estimated hours. I use it to bush hog 10 acres and to do general maintenance work on my property in Virginia. Last year I purchased a 2004 New Holland TC40DA (with super steer and hydrostatic transmission) for use on a project at a remote site in Florida. Needless to say my new 400 hour New Holland tractor now looks older then the 1998 Massey. Neither tractor has the lifting capacity to do the job we need to do so I hope to sell both and purchase a larger tractor. I have been looking at the Branson 6530. It is, I am told, a gray market John Deere with a 65 hp Cummings diesel engine. Is anyone aware of the Branson Tractor Company reputation and if so do you mind telling me what you know. I also want to sell both the Massey and the New Holland. What are these tractors worth and what is the best way to offer them for sale? Thanks for any advice you can give me.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

How much lifting capacity are you looking for and what will be the primary tasks for the larger tractor? Lastly, what price range are you trying to remain within?


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

The Branson 6530 comes standard with a live pto. An independent pto is an available option. The live pto version would be a nonstarter for me. Not a good option for use with a rotary cutter or other equipment where you may want to stop the pto in a hurry. I don't have any experience on the Branson models. They have not been on the market long enough to establish a long term reliability reputation but that does not mean it may not be a great machine. The Cummins engine speaks for itself with a sterling reputation for reliability and longevity.


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

Chief,

Thanks for your help. I use the tractor at my property about 90% of the time and for my business about 10% of the time. I have two distinct needs for the tractor. One is to do general maintenance work here on my property in VA. like cutting 10 acres of steep pasture, clearing old logging trails once a year for hunting season, pushing snow, gravel, dirt and plowing the garden. I also need to dig a new septic system and foundation for a new office/barn/storage building so I need a backhoe attachment. Most the contractors who do this type of work around here are booked for months in advance or never show up. I own a small preservation co. that does brick/stone masonry, stained glass, timber frame, slate and metal roof restoration work on historic buildings like Fort Jefferson in Dry Tortugas our most recent project. Thus the reason for the new New Holland TC40DA because it was small and light enough to lift by crane onto our transport boat and fit into the casemates where we used it to lift and remove the original 1800 pound cast iron embrasure shutters and to move pallets of brick, sand, supplies and on occasion the NPS used it to pull small makeshift boats left by visiting Cuban refugees off the beach. There smaller John Deere did not have the pulling power. The New Holland was poorly maintained by my own crew and it shows. Being in a prestine marine enviroument we used 100% biodiesel for our generators and the tractor (there is no power or water so we had to make our own). The New Holland would not lift a pallet of four 55 gallon drums of biodiesel. We were forced to remove one drum from each pallet before we could lift it. The same was true for the pallet of bricks. Each had to be restacked by hand in the 100+ degree heat. The hydrostatic trans makes using the forks a real exciting experience. I just want a tractor that is as small as possible but one that will lift about 2500 or 3000 pounds from the back of a transit or PU truck. Most of the compact tractors are rated to lift about 2000 pounds but with the forks attached they will only lift about 1800. The next step up in most utility tractors will only lift about 2500 pounds. It would be great if I could lift 3000 pounds and still use it to bush hog my property when the project is complete. 

Again, thanks for heraing me out during this frustrating process.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Just a few thoughts here. The Branson tractor may well be a great machine (again I have no experience with it) but I have seen very few (in fact NO Branson dealers in my area or outlieing areas). In my opinion, the dealer's logistics infrastructure is important with respect to nationwide ready availability of parts, mechanics that are well experienced working on your or various models, and the shop resources the dealer has to work on your machine. This is an area you will have to make an informed assesment on your own as each dealer is a different scenario. 

The Kioti DK65S is another machine that may meet your requirements and at a very reasonable price. 

Will the size of these (the Branson 6530 or DK65S) be a major drawback as compared to a typical agricultural utility tractor? 

Is a power reverser transmission a requirement or will you be happy with a sync-reverser transmission? 

From the lift other requirements you mentioned; I don't think a high hp compact tractor will be a good fit for you as they are not as heavy built in the frame and transmission/power train area. This is something you should take a close look at on the Branson as well. Agricultural utility tractors are typically built much stronger and heavier in these areas regardless of color. 

All the above having been said; most of the old timer farmers in my area go with green or red. Red you can no longer buy new. From what you are saying it seems you are primarily interested in a new machine. 

Have you taken a look at the Deere 5105/5205? My neighbor recently bought one (he owns about 165 acres) and he loves his. The 522 FEL is listed as being able to lift 2116 lbs. full height and 3,214 to 59 inches. Will this capacity adequately meet your requirements? The 5105 in 4WD can be had in the $18,000 price range and 522 FEL for around $3,900 give or take, plus setup and installation ($200 to $400). These are very basic no frills reliable machines. 

If you want the bells and whistles look at the Twentyfive series tractors. 

If you plan on doing a lot of FEL work, the power reverser transmission makes life MUCH easier on the clutch leg!  For occasional FEL work, the sync-reverser will do just fine. 

In the end, it is the dealer/manufacturer that stands behind the tractor you buy regardless of brand or color who makes the reputation and reliability of the machine. The trick is to buy the machine that will give you the least amount of problems (in my opinion simple and basic = reliable and long lasting) That having been said; the ALL break. This is where the dealer/manufacturer and their logistical infrastructure come in. 

Sorry for the long post. Hope this gave you some ideas to consider and food for thought. Good luck on your purchase and be sure to let us know what you got and we LOVE pictures!


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

*A good used tractor is just fine by me*

Chief,

Thanks for your assistance. I have already made two mistakes in my previous tractor acquisitions and your patient guidance has saved me one more costly mistake. I would be willing to pay good money for this kind of assistance and so far this forum (my first) has been well worth the time. 

I am also concerned about the location and availability of dealers and their maintenance reliability. So far the red dealer in Warrenton Virginia has been very supportive but I fear that the gray market dealer may be hard to depend on during critical breakdowns and the next closest dealer is further away in PA. 

I have no desire to purchase a new tractor as opposed to a good used tractor and like wise I usually only purchase used trucks and cars too avoid the dealer mark up but I have searched the internet for hours for used tractors only to find that my lack of knowledge has hampered my judgment. My red tractor was one year old when I purchased it and it has been a great machine other then it is under powered and will not lift what I need to lift and lacks the quick release bucket/fork attachment.

I hate to say that I don't know the difference between a sync-reverser, synchro transmission and a power reverser transmission but I do know that the the New Holland, equipped with the hydrostatic transmission, is pretty frightening when you are lifting a $15,000 pallet of solar panels and it jerks back and forth when you try to maneuver the load from a dead stop. The super steer, while being great for maneuvering in tight spots, causes the forks to go in the opposite direction intended while you maneuver the forks under the pallet. A standard clutch, leg work and steady maneuverability is well worth the effort. The green tractor with a 3,214 to 59 inches sounds like a perfect fit and will save me a lot of hard earned money.

I spoke with Branson dealer to get the scoop on the live PTO and I clarified the fact that the 6530 does do both. Little did I know the difference but it will only lift 2500 pounds. With the forks attached it will not lift a common pallet of bricks that weigh 2500 pounds so I spoke with blue dealer who tells me that the smaller 55 hp will lift 3000 pounds and costs $10,000 less. I will begin my search for the tractors you suggested and I will report my results. I will also post photos of the Fort restoration project. Also look for some photos in the October or November issue of National Geographic.


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

*Photos Fort Jeff*

Some photos of the work at Fort Jeff and the TC40DA before shipment to Dry Tortugas


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

Watersdale

It looks like you have already hooked up with our resident expert on tractors and that he is steering towards the right tractor. I was kinda surprised on the lifting requirments you mentioned until I read your description of what you needed to move. I would love to see more pics of the restoration work you do. The craftsmanship that goes into this work is impressive. Thanks for sharing.

Andy


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Dale, I have a question about your comments pertaining to the hydrostatic drive on your New Holland. In nearly all cases hydrostatic drive is the optimum for overall use in FEL work. If the hydro drive is jerking back and forth, there is a problem with it. It should not be doing that. Could be a number of things possibly causing this. You tractor appears pretty new in your picture. Is it still under warranty? This is something you may want to run by the New Holland dealer you purchased it from. I have the eHydro transmission on my Deere 4410 (basically an electronicly controlled hydrostatic drive transmission). It is very good for very fine and controlled movements with the FEL. It also is great for my use doing brush hog work in the edges of my fields under the tree over hang. The fine control it gives me allows me to be very gradual about running the rotary cutter and avoiding rocks and other stuff. It is also great for the repetative forwards and backwards movement. The 4410 is NO farm tractor but for the uses I am putting to, it is working out great.

To help you out with some terminology here are some links that can explain it MUCH better than I can (they are Deere links but Kubota and New Holland are very similar in this respect) 

SyncReverser transmission  

Synco Transmission is pretty much like any manual shift transmission in that you can shift gear on the fly. If not a syncro, you must come to a stop each time you shift a gear.

PowrReverser transmission  

There are various versions of the power reverser with more or less features but basically it is a forward/reverse clutch pack that is engaged for each direction. 

Remember that a high hp compact tractor such as the New Holland TC 55A, John Deere 4720, or Kubota L5030 is NOT the same as an agricultural utility tractor. The frames and castings are just not anywhere near as strong and you would be pushing a machine like this to its limits lifting such heavy loads. 

Is the John Deere dealer still out in Manassas? As I recall, the Ford/New Holland dealer went out of business in Warrenton years ago. I believe there is a Kioti dealer out towards Culpeper. That area is developing and changing so fast that it is impossible to keep up with. :dazed:   

If you have the time, I think it would be a idea to get out to as many dealers as you can find in your area and demo as wide a variety of brands and models as you can. This will help give you an idea first hand of the strength and weaknesses as well as likes and dislikes. It will also give you an opportunity to get a feel for the dealer. Finally. it will give you field of hands on comparison to work with. Talking to other owners and getting their feedback is another valuable thing to consider if you can find them.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

I almost forgot. PLEASE DO post some threads and pictures of your restoration work. Sounds like VERY interesting and rewarding work. I read the restoration project page on your website. Very interesting work. I cannot imagine the logistical challenges this project must have presented. Water, food, fuel, sanitation, lifting heavy rock; the 800 lb. armored stone must have been a bear! 

Not to hijack your thread, but I read that you used biodiesel at the Ft. Jefferson project. Did you use B100 or a blend of biodiesel and conventional diesel? How did it perform and work out? We have some biodiesel thread already start or better yet; start a new thread on this and post your experiences with this fuel.


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

*New Tractor Choice, Fort Jefferson and Biodiesel Fuel*

Fort Jeff Project Photos


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

*New Tractor, Biodiesel Fuel and Fort Jeff*

Fort Jeff with pallets of brick


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

Fort Jeff after reconstruction with Lime putty mortar. Note mote and iron shutter in the water


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

*Fort Jeff and Tractor on Transport Boat*

Compact size was important


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

*Fort Jeff embrasure rebuild*

Completed embrasure


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

*Fort Jeff base camp*

Base camp complete with micro-cogenerators, PV solar panels, storage batteries, all biodiesel powered including mule and tractor. The micro-cogenerators power our R.O. fresh water system as there was no power or fresh water available and could not risk spilling gasoline or diesel fuel. I am now 100% convinced that biodiesel fuel will work great given warm temp and proper filtering.


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

*fort Jeff 1200 pound iron shutter*

The TC40 DA would lift the cast iron shutters that we removed but it will not lift a pallet of four drums of biodiesel. Base camp in back ground of photo


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

*Fort Jeff and the TC40 DA*

My poor new holland tractor after return to VA. I have been scraping off rust for a week now.


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

*Fort Jeff from the sea plane*

Fort Jeff is 70 miles due west of Key West and it is very dry. No water, no power, no cell phone. No tractor repair shop or hardware store. 8 hour by transport boat. Rats do eat fuel lines on tractors.


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

Chief/Andy and All

I am new at the forum thing so please excuse me if I posted this message once before. I may have tried to attach too many large format photos and crashed the system? I have reduced the size of each and am now making a second attempt. I apologize for taking so long to post these photos but I have been busy scraping rust off my tractor and visiting dealerships. 

First, please, let me thank you for helping me choose a new/used tractor. I did visit the John Deere dealer in Warrenton VA and several other dealerships in Culpepper and Orange VA. I do like the 5325 the most and it will lift about 3000 pounds. I also like the all metal construction and power reverser transmission. If I can sell my rusted TC40DA and my 1260 Massey I think the 5320 will be my first choice.

I also trailered the TC40DA to the New Holland dealership and asked that they repair the hydraulic leak and anything else that might be wrong. When I got it home (after 1.5 hour trip each way) I found that the PTO control was frozen. After oiling the connector rod and hammering at it for a few hours I got it and the tilt steering mechanism to work. So far all is operational including the hydrostatic transmission that may have been more of an operator error than a transmission problem as I have since used it to lift and store all the rusted generators, solar panels, batteries, invertors and RO systems into temporary storage here in Virginia. WHAT A NIGHTMARE. Again I had to man handle one of four drums of left over biodiesel fuel from each pallet before I could lift the remaining three. 

This topic may have more to do with biodiesel fuel then large tractors but I hope to discuss both subjects with anyone who is interested. 

I posted several photos of the Fort Jefferson project in Dry Tortugas where my crew totally neglected the TC40DA. It was not as rewarding as one might think but rather nerve racking due to the hurricane season of 2005. Fort Jeff has no cell phone service, no power, no water, no tractor repair service, no hardware store, no gorcery store, no beer store or 7-11 and everything is 70 miles away by sea plane or boat. We were hit by a total of six hurricanes and we survived all of them including Katrina thanks to three feet of elevation at the coal dock where we constructed our base camp as the fort proper was flooded with three feet of sea water. As you may have seen in the previous posted photos we had to construct a self sufficient base camp to house our crew. Due to the fact that there is no power or fresh water available we had to make our own. We (more them then me) designed and built a biodiesel powered (PV) solar/micro-cogenerator/reverse osmosis system for power and fresh water. Our base camp had AC air conditioning and DC powered freezers, commercial refrigerator, biodegradable toilet stall vents and lighting. The system sipped 20 to 25 gallons of biodiesel per day as opposed to hundreds of gallons per day and being that it is a pristine marine environment and National Park we could not run the risk of spilling gasoline or diesel fuel. Also the cost to ship fuel to the island via eight hour transport boat at $2500 per trip was prohibitive. Besides the $1.00 per gallon tax credit for using alternative fuel I am very impressed with the biodiesel fuel. I also run B100 in my GMC Duramax and both tractors but I also filter and treat the fuel before I pump it inot the fuel tank. I have learned the hard way not to use it in the the late fall when the temperature might drop


If you ever need to know how not to do treat a tractor please give me a call. And thanks again for all your help.

"Tiss a weak mind that can only think of one way to spell a word"....President Harry Truman


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Dale you done great!   :thumbsup: Outstanding pictures and great narrative on the project. The salt water environment can be tough on steel. Looks like you may be doing a bit of touch up painting. In the future if you get a project such as this where salt water environment corrosion is a problem; I would suggest spraying your equipment down with a light preservative oil such as Boeshield or you can mix up some kerosene and 40 weight oil. 

The 5325 is indeed a real nice machine but I was thinking that would be well outside your max. budget. The 5325 will accept a larger capacity FEL as well. 

While you were in Culpeper, did you stop by the Kioti dealer? I believe my fathat told me there is a Kioti dealer there.

Thanks for the great pics! It is a shame the walls of the fort are deteriorating. I am surprised they lasted this long. Looks like you and your crew did a real nice job on the restoration.


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

:ditto: what Chief said. 

I loved the pics of the fort and the base camp. That looks like a major undertaking to rebuild the fort having to haul so much stuff there to survive. How long were you there for that project?

Andy

P.S. Congrats on the new tractor too.


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## watersdale (Jul 5, 2006)

*http://www.nps.gov/drto/*

Andy,

We were there for slightly over a year but I spent at least a year planning the project. We restored 17 embrasures. We went down with the intention to do 20 but the embrasure openings in the bastions were in critical condition with cracks running through the top of the parapet. The whole wall fell into the moat while we tried to disassemble the bastion embrasures. I did have one person assigned to maintenance. It was his job to take care of the equipment. Unforunatly he neglected cosmetic stuff but did change engine oil and filters. And then there is the Dry Tortugas factor (what the Park employeees call the curse of Fort Jefferson). "If it can go wrong it will go wrong and it always goes wrong out here". Rats ate the fuel lines, evening thunder storms with 70 mph winds, constant failure of the satellite communication system and there was always a transport problem. It was like a one year long nightmare for me. We restored the U.S. Naval Academy Chapel at Annapolis and the U.S. Military Academy Chapel at West Point, the Castillo de San Marco (Old Spanish Fort)in St. Augustine, FL. No project has ever been as challenging as the one at Fort Jefferson. However the NPS is great to work with and very dedicated.


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