# Need advice on tractor purchase



## lavarock64 (Nov 8, 2004)

Hello-

I'm new to this forum and I'm seeking advice for a future tractor purchase. We recently bought 35 acres (10 woods/ 25 field). My plan is to log the woods with the tractor and to pay off the tractor loan with the sale of the timber. So, even though there is only 10 acres, it has not been logged for some time. There are about 40 trees (cherry/oak and maple) I plan to take, the largest being 36 inches. I would also like to make a short logging road up a hillside in the middle of the project area (front loader?). After the timber project I will be using the tractor as an aid in constructing a home on the site (possible septic installation?), brush hogging and fire wood removal. My preference is to buy a used machine for around $7,500. Given the conditions what would be your recommendation on brand, model and HP rating.
Thanks, Chris


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

I second the notion of letting a logger come in and cut and haul the timber out. He would have more experience in avoiding damage to the logs, and to cut the logs the proper length, etc. It is about the heaviest, hardest work on your list and if you can avoid it, your tractor can be a little smaller/newer.


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## psrumors (Apr 25, 2004)

Welcome to the forum Lavarock. There will be quite a few answers here. If you go with a FEL you want something with power steering. A good Ford Thousand series comes to mind (3000, 4000, etc). They can be had for 5 to 75 in very good shape. I think it will be hard to get a back hoe (for septic) in this price range though. I could be wrong but it would be a first.  

Others I am sure will chime in. I am mainly familiar with the Fords. I would say you will want to be in the 35 to 40 hp range. Could luck.


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## bigl22 (Sep 16, 2003)

an older ford about 40 hp will do this for you-- can you operate a fel or backhoe? if not - good or just barely? - hire some of it done -- professional logger will do it for you -- and probably take about 1/2 the value -- check it out-- if you get a tractor try too find out what attachements you can rent for it and what they wil cost versus buying-- leasing may be an opotion if you act as general contractor and incorporate your self as a business -- also save 15-20% on materials purchase that way also-- new or used? get used if you can at farm auctions-- machine finder is good-- a great many places on the web-- finally--- how hard is it to get to the woods in bad weather/ snow. mud, narrow trails at best? grizzly bears? the aryan nation for neighbors? or dope growers of america? all o fthat should be looked at -- access is important and al of these may inpede it-- good luck and let us know --bigl22


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

Welcome Lava,

Would be helpful to know what area of the country your talking about judging by the species of trees you mentioned I would guess on the East more to wards the North if that is correct most loggers (clear cutters) are probably not too interested in just 40 trees!

It might be helpful to acquire your tractor first without counting on a real or imagined revenue from a hoped for cash crop of trees!
In my opinion A reputable dealer is a good place to begin!

Consult a professional woods appraiser in your area to determine the market value of your trees, He will walk it and mark those that are marketable and give you a board foot value report!!


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Welcome to Tractor Forum lavarock64. I hate to be a party pooper but I think you may need to rethink your tractor. You will not get much in the way of much with a FEL or hoe at that price. To skid any kind of log the size of the trees you are talking about would require a full size large agriculture tractor and it would not do it well. A skidder would be your best bet as already mentioned and going with a logging contractor. Without the requirement to skid logs, something in the neighborhood of a John Deere 4700 with a FEL and backhoe would be a good fit but price wise about triple what your price range is. You may find an older backhoe in or near this price range but expect it to be well worn and probably nearly worn out. You can get some good bargains on some of the Jinma and Kama chinese tractors but expect to work on these machines to maintain them. They require a bit of self help and a bit more work than the big 3 machines and they are not for everyone. Another option would be a used John Deere 990 with FEL & hoe if you can find one. This is a more basic but bullet proof gearshift 40 hp tractor. They are made by Yanmar for Deere.


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

IMO Chief, you are not being a party pooper, part of giving advice is running the risk of telling the asker what they may not want to hear!!

See above!


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

In northern NJ and northeast PA, there are a few loggers that will come in for 40 trees, if they are all quality hardwood, especially Cherry and Walnut. But as mentioned above. They like to cut their own. Which I think actually works in your favor as you can then look for a smaller machine. Also, unless you are skilled in moving large heavy logs, you should know that it is dangerous work, best left to pros. I'd hate to hear of a new member being squashed under a 36" dia. log before he got his first project finished.


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## slipshod (Sep 19, 2003)

*Skid Them?*

Hell might as well carry them


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Skid Them?*



> _Originally posted by slipshod _
> *Hell might as well carry them *


Neat picture but tell our new friend about the hazards of working his 10 acres of his own description!!
"logging road up a hillside in the middle of the project area (front loader?)"


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## slipshod (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Re: Skid Them?*



> _Originally posted by Archdean _
> *Neat picture but tell our new friend about the hazards of working his 10 acres of his own description!!
> "logging road up a hillside in the middle of the project area (front loader?)" *


 Dean do you think I got the nickname Slipshod by worrying about silly little things like rollovers and dropping trees with widow makers? Sure there are hazards in anything you do, but with a certain amount of thought logging a woods can be done safely even if there is a hillside involved. The problems created by professional loggers sometimes are not worth it. A skidder can tear it up, compact your soil, leave huge mud ruts. They are in the business for the money. As for that picture it is not a trick, I regularly carry logs with the clam. I can also drag huge logs with it. Driving backwards!


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## Archdean (Jul 15, 2004)

No Slip I don't think that at all!! As I tell my flight students Don't do such and such and hope to hell they don't see me testing the limits of Gravity!!

This fellow is doing his best to learn from us old farts and we should keep our near potential failures hidden for a while, plenty of time for the learning curve to catch up!!

My Brother just had a 100 acres logged off a hillside in NY and he has a big big job for his BIG Allis just to clean up the mess!!


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: Skid Them?*



> _Originally posted by slipshod _
> *Hell might as well carry them *


Slip, a 4 in1 bucket or grapple will work great on smaller logs but I think he may have a problem with the larger stuff. A green log of reasonable size (say 24 inches in diameter) depending upon length cut would put the FEL near of over its designed weight limit and unless you are working on very level and flat, solid ground; a large log being carried in the FEL or grapple would be very tenuous at best as the tractor would tend to rock from side to side in an amplified manor when going over rough or uneven ground. I think he woudl be Ok with 16 inch and under logs cut down to 8 ft. lenghts and the tractor size could even be an advantage. The price range is the biggest hanging point that I see.


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## lavarock64 (Nov 8, 2004)

Thanks for the warm welcome and advice fellas-

I did'nt want to word drown any one with the initial post, so here are some more details. The project area is in _upstate_ NY. I did have a repitable forester come in and mark the trees to maintain a healthy woods down the road. The forester put the project out to bid and due to the scale of the project, we had a few nibbles from some of the smaller local loggers. Both the forester and myself agreed that the loggers did not come in at a fair price. We were expecting around $7,500 and the max bid was $5,000. 

A local friend had a similiar experience. 20 acres of trees (none at 36 inches (averaged around 24)), logger bid it out at $5,200, they logged it themselves with a tractor and sold the felled logs at the road for $17,000.

This why I've been kicking the idea of doing it myself. We have a limited family budget and this is the only way that I'm likely to get a tractor in the near future. 

If I decide to do the project myself. It sounds like I'm looking for a machine 35-40 HP with a FEL with power steering. Possibly a 70's/ 80's Ford or Deere. I think that I could use a 2 wheel drive model b/c if I'm doing it myself it gives me the flexibility of picking the driest time of the year. What models of these tractors have a reputation of being very reliable/ dependable? Sounds like JD 990 and the Ford 3000/4000 series, any others? 

Thanks a bunch guys, Chris


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

Lavarock

I'd also check into one of the Chinese tractors that you can buy new and outfit with front loader/backhoe and maybe still be in your price range. One web site to look at is Homier.com and click on the Farm Pro tractor link. they have dealers across the country and their prices are competitive with the 20-30 year old brand name tractors. They seem to be pretty heavy built and though they will probably need more attention than a new brand name tractor they should be less labor and repair than a very used one. Parts are available and I know in Huntington Indiana they are expanding their warehouse to about 500000sq ft to meet demand.

Just another idea for you


Good Luck

Andy


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

If you have prior experience with operating machinery like this, I won't worry so much about your safety. If not, try to find a machine with a low center of gravity and wide or adjustable wheel width spacing, a roll over protection system (ROPS) and really good tires, chains will be a plus even with ag style bar tires. The Fords you mentioned are a good palce to start, Allis Chalmers made several models that are suitable, Deere 1250 (see link to ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50902&item=3851611342&rd=1) and IH also made several good models (see link to ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50920&item=3850196009&rd=1


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## slipshod (Sep 19, 2003)

*safety*

I am with Joe on the safety issue. Even with hills and a machine of limited size you can safely log your own woods. I agree with chief, sort of, it is not practical mosts times to carry logs out of the woods with a 4 way bucket. Not because of instability, but because you would need a super highway because of the width. The other purchase you should think about is a trailer. Your logs will roll nicely out of the woods, up hill and down behind your modest sized tractor. I take my 12,000 cap. equipment trailer into the woods a lot. Buy a good pair of log hooks to hang off your fel and you are in business. If the logs are heavy load pick up one end at a time if needed. Using this method is much easier on your woods then a skidder.


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## P71 (May 3, 2004)

4WD doesn't increase your capability by 2...... it's more like 10........especialy in clay


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## slipshod (Sep 19, 2003)

*agreed*



> _Originally posted by P71 _
> *4WD doesn't increase your capability by 2...... it's more like 10........especialy in clay *


 P71 You got that right. 4 whel drive make s it a whole new ball game.


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## alleyyooper (Oct 23, 2004)

First off I'm not going to assume you have no skills and know how to run a chinsaw and drop a tree. I will assume you know what lenth logs the buyers in your area are buying. So for a tractor to fit your needs skiding out timber I sugguest you start in the 1960 to 1970 era and the 40 to 80 hp class of tractor. Here localy you can get real good deals on that size and year of tractor with a loader since it is considered to old and small for the farm sizes we have here now.
I personally would pick a Massey ferguson 1080 thru 1155, Ford 5000 or 7000, Oliver 1750 1850 , case 995 1030 david brown 995 1030 And there are more I have no experince with that would fit the bill, such as international I think the 66 series, White I have no idea of models trhat fit in the HP range.
Search here for an idea of prices in your area as well as tractors on the market. http://ironsearch.com/

Chose your state and tractor brand. I found a very good 1850 for $5700 with a front loader for a friend in Northern Minnesota but the tractor was in the south. They delivered it for $300.00.
 Al


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## alleyyooper (Oct 23, 2004)

Check out this Ford 5000 diesel at Catskill Tractor Inc in Franklin New York for $7,750 remember to dicker some. This an 80 HP tractor and doesn't have the slect o Junk transmission, it isn't the only or last tractor for sale.
 Al


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## alleyyooper (Oct 23, 2004)

How about this oliver 1855 at $6900 Walldorf farm equipment Water town New York.
This one folks is a 100 HP tractor. 
Get them to throw in a front loader.

Also don't forget to check Vermont and New Hampshire if those states are close by.
 Al


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## P71 (May 3, 2004)

Finding a cheap used tractor is like finding a cheap used whore... it's about the same price, so go with the one that aint worn out...:lmao:


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by P71 _
> *Finding a cheap used tractor is like finding a cheap used whore... it's about the same price, so go with the one that aint worn out...:lmao: *


Colorful description! But sooooo true!


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## balmoralboy (May 22, 2004)

Have you thought about getting the logging contractors to price it to cut and place the logs roadside, then a separate number to pay you if they take the logs. 

Might get them to focus on doing what you want to pay them for, as you already know what logs you should get and what they are worth.

It seems to me they are pricing in two profits - one on getting the logs out, and one for handling the logs, based on some of your wood being wind-shook or otherwise not as valuable as it looks on the stump. Tell them you're prepared to take the risk of the logs not getting good value, but want to auction them after they're at roadside.

Of course you'll have to find out what length the buyers and mills in your area want,.... but it seems like valuable research for you to have.

They've already done the work to estimate the job, should just be a matter of adding it up differently now. The differences in prices should tell you a lot about the bidding strategy and business styles of each guy. Some will game you, some will tell it straight. Good luck figuring out the difference.


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## lavarock64 (Nov 8, 2004)

Machine finder and iron search are both great resources and search engines, just the type of stuff I was looking for. 
Al - Thanks for being specific on your recommendations. The David Brown hit home. I used to work on a farm with both the 990 and 1210. They were built by Case, right? My concern is parts availability. 
The Ford 3 and 4 thousand series look to be reachable as well. I have a friend that has two and would be a good resource for future problems. 
Al- You mentioned the Selecto Junk. With any tractor should I be looking for the standard gear drive? I know many of those 60's-70's tractors and shuttle shift and various other transmisions, should I stay clear of these?
Thanks again, Chris


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## alleyyooper (Oct 23, 2004)

I had tried to buy a David Brown 995 diesel just before I bought my Ford 5000 gas. They had a low cap on the bidding so refused to let it go to my high bid. Parts for them should still be gotten from Case IH dealers. 
As for the Fords I think I would drop the 3000 just for the extra horse power of the larger ones and they do seem to meet your price range although with out loaders, But during these trying ecomeny times dealers seem to deal a bit better.
The transmission choice is up to what you are comfortable with. I don't even have an auto trans in my pickup as I do not like auto trans at all, just how I feel. Others wouldn't think of any thing that required them to clutch.
Just during my walks in salvage yards I see an awful lot of Fords there due the select o speed problems and the cost of repairing them.
Glad to have helped. 
 Al


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

*Info on using farm machinery to log.*

I found this while surfing. It is a pretty good read, some of it is just plain common sense, and some of it is worth while reading, if for no other reason than to brush up on safety. I hope you enjoy it:

http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/forestry/420-090/420-090.html


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## lavarock64 (Nov 8, 2004)

Al- Thanks for your addditional advice. We think alike with the manual trannys. My wifes car and my truck are both sticks. The last automatic I had burned up going up Mount Washington. From that point on I said never again. Clutches are much cheaper than a whole tranny. Any more, it is very difficult to find an equiped truck with a stick. It's funny, in europe it's drn near impossible to find a vehicle with an auto. The same concept goes for my shotguns, they are all pumps of o/u's (no autos).

Joe- Thanks for the logging link. Looks like some real good stuff. I's amazing what is on the net.

I'll keep ya all posted on my tractor persuit. Time is on my side, so I'll be waiting out the right trackto for the right deal.

Thanks again, Chris


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