# Ford 4500 Backhoe Leaking Transmission Fluid



## King1094 (Dec 20, 2015)

Hello, I have a 1972 Ford 4500 backhoe that I recently purchased. It is the 3 cylinder diesel, 4-speed, shuttle shift. It starts right up, runs good, drives good, works like a monster. The only problem I am having is that it is losing transmission fluid and it appears to be coming through the weep hole in the bottom of the tractor where you split it. The fluid is milky and it pours/sprays out significantly. It seems to drive a bit slow, but these transmissions weren't built for racing, so I'm not sure if she is moving as quickly as she should. It is very hilly here in KY, and it will climb hills I shouldn't be climbing, so the clutch is strong in low gear. The engine oil, hydraulic fluid, power steering fluid, and radiator fluid are all full and it hasn't been using any of these. I haven't changed any filters yet and was wondering if a water clogged transmission filter could cause this? The transmission, fuel, and oil filters all look ancient and I am in the process of obtaining all fluids and filters for a complete fluid and filter change. $$$$$$


----------



## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

Howdy King1094,

Welcome to the tractor forum.

Fluid coming out of the weep hole (with cotter pin sticking out of it) at the bottom of the clutch housing normally indicates a leaking engine rear main seal or transmission input shaft seal. You have to split the tractor to make repairs. 

If you plan to do the job yourself, you can get a service/repair manual on CD for about $10 on ebay.

PS: You probably need an owner/operator's manual to learn all of the maintenance requirements.


----------



## RM-MN (Sep 11, 2015)

Sixbales is right, the oil leaking from the weep hole can be from the engine or transmission and since you mentioned that you are losing transmission oil the input seal on the transmission is the likely place. Milky oil is oil with water suspended in it. You do need a transmission oil change. You should also check the level of the oil in the differential area and the color as the two areas should be separated by another oil seal that could be leaking. If the oil in the differential is milky too and way above the proper level you transmission may be leaking into there too which will also require the tractor to be split and another seal replaced. You might as well replace the bearings in both places if you have to remove the transmission to replace the rear seal as a bad bearing will cause a seal to leak and the cost of the bearings is minor compared to the cost to split the tractor.


----------



## King1094 (Dec 20, 2015)

Wow, thanks sixbales and RM-MN. That was a fast reply and I really appreciate it. I already have the ebay service/repair manual on CD. There was so many seals in the transmission that I wasn't sure which one would be the culprit. I agree and will spend the few dollars needed on the bearings, since water got in there, chances are, they are worn. I will check the differential tomorrow RM-MN, I am flushing the engine, trans, and differential and replacing all fluids and filters. I have split them before, however; I always went forward, never backward. I am not that familiar with the trans other than changing out clutches. I guess we all have to start somewhere. Thanks a ton for the quick replies. I will keep you posted on progress, I am sure it will be slow.


----------



## ihfarmer77 (Dec 22, 2015)

Our IH 966 had a bad transition leak. I had split it. It was the input shaft seal that needed replaced. So that is the most common and most practical answer.


----------



## fire5758 (Dec 23, 2015)

I purchased a used Kabota tractor and while checking the tire pressure oil came out of the valve, can any one tell me why this is ?


----------



## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Oil?? I have never heard of oil being used in tires, but who knows? I can understand calcium chloride, some form of glycol based liquid ballast, or even some stopleak type of tire slime. Maybe you should try to get a small sample for evaluation.


----------



## King1094 (Dec 20, 2015)

Thanks for the input Fedup, I drained and flushed the tranny then refilled with Ford Hydraulic fluid. The leak seems to have stopped, however; I have not used it hard yet. Could have just been the thinned down oil/water combination. It acts strange though, If I put it in 4th gear, it starts out slow, builds speed and then will slow down on hills. It almost acts like it is slipping, but it will climb a mountain in 1st or 2nd gear.


----------



## King1094 (Dec 20, 2015)

That is a little odd fire5758, I bet it is not oil. It is probably something they filled it with for weight. They have changed mixtures around from time to time. It is typically something that will not rust the rim or deteriorate the tires. It typically will not interfere with inflating your tires. Check your tires with the valve stem at the 12 o'clock position.


----------



## RM-MN (Sep 11, 2015)

King1094 said:


> Thanks for the input Fedup, I drained and flushed the tranny then refilled with Ford Hydraulic fluid. The leak seems to have stopped, however; I have not used it hard yet. Could have just been the thinned down oil/water combination. It acts strange though, If I put it in 4th gear, it starts out slow, builds speed and then will slow down on hills. It almost acts like it is slipping, but it will climb a mountain in 1st or 2nd gear.


That sounds like a clutch slipping as it takes more torque to start the motion in the higher gear. Check your clutch pedal to make sure it isn't set too tight and if that isn't the case you may be needing a new clutch.


----------



## King1094 (Dec 20, 2015)

Thanks RM-MN, I am fearing that this is the case, however; I have the shuttle-shift, so mine is automatic. I don't have a clutch, I have a clutch pack and a torque converter. I was thinking that the torque converter needs rebuilt or I need a new clutch pack. The odd thing is that it will not increase rpm's as is typical if slipping, it simply slows downs and will stop on a steep incline.


----------



## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

If you have the torque converter transmission you have four forward and four reverse gears in addition to the directional shuttle. It would be normal for the tractor to stall out if in too high a gear when attempting to pull a hill.

If you are in low gear and it is stalling it is likely the torque converter pump. When the torque converter itself fails they will rev up to operating rpm and barely move or stop, or vibrate like an exotic dancer. When the pump wears excessively, they simply will not lock the directional clutch and the clutch plates in the entire planetary assembly just slip away.

A common cause is the use of gear lube instead of tractor fluid in the transmission, or a stuck valve, or worn pump.

That transmission has it's own internal hydraulic pump, and there is a separate test port for the pressure from that pump. I would test that after it has fresh fluid and a fresh filter. The parts diagrams show a "transmission pressure check tube" in the diagram of the torque converter and hydraulic pump portions of the internals of the transmission.

If you go to http://partstore.construction.newho...8cb7d7b3&sl=EN&currency=#epc::mr85073ar397923 you will find diagrams of the transmission and its components.


----------



## ihfarmer77 (Dec 22, 2015)

fire5758 it was an old farmers trick. We put oil in are tires if we need weight. But we more used it to keep the tire in good condition. If it has no tube it is to keep the tire air tight ass it will clog small small holes and keep the tire from dry rotting through if it is sitting for a while


----------



## King1094 (Dec 20, 2015)

RC Wells, thanks a ton for that link. Yeah, the issue that I am having sounds like your latter advice. It does not stall or shutter, it simply maintains RPM, but slows down and/or eventually will stop in 3rd and 4th gear. I don't have any problems in 1st or 2nd. On flat ground, 3rd and 4th are fine in both forward or reverse. When I encounter an incline, it will slow down and even stop if I am in 3rd or 4th. From what you are telling me, it sounds like the Torque Converter. Do you know if these can be purchased or rebuilt?


----------



## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Try http://www.brokentractor.com/ford_trans-tc_parts.htm They have everything you need, but it may be necessary to call them.

I would still lean to the problem being what is called the Torque Converter Pump (actually the pump for the planetary gear set clutches in the transmission). The torque converter on these is pretty tough, but the pump wears out after only thirty or forty years or so. Once you are in there you will know for sure. But, I am a guy with a brand spanking new 100 PTO HP 4X4 John Deere in the dealer's for transmission work after 13 hours of use. The new stuff just is not made like it used to be. 

Some of the long established Ford (now Spaghetti New Holland) dealers will have NOS parts in stock. Many still service the Ford tractors because most of use refuse to part with them in favor of the lower quality foreign built stuff sold now days.


----------



## King1094 (Dec 20, 2015)

RC Wells, thanks again, it looks like the price for both is about the same and high enough where I don't want to buy both if there is nothing wrong with one of them. I will take your advice and tear into it before I buy one or the other. You probably just saved me hundreds of dollars. Thanks again and I will keep you posted on what I find. I don't want to tear into it just yet, this time of year I am using it often. Sorry to hear about the John Deere problems, you are right, they don't make things the way they use to. Most of the stuff on them now are made on the other side of the pond and all they care about is making it as fast and cheap as they can. I am surprised dealers still offer warranties on stuff they know are going to break down after 13 hours of use.


----------



## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

The early failure is not the worst of it, the JD dealer delivered the repaired tractor yesterday, and now I have no parking brakes. The adjusters are set so tight that the lock under the dash will not engage with the teeth on the pedal arm.

There is just no excuse for that level of incompetence! It is a huge safety issue making the tractor unsafe when parked.


----------



## King1094 (Dec 20, 2015)

I know it don't help, but I have been talking to a lot of people that are in the same boat as you and have similar stories about the tractor and the service. JD use to be about as American as the mustang and the eagle. It is a shame to see them all going extinct. Same as buying Chinese junk anymore.

My problems got worse as well. I changed all the fluids in my 4500 from front to back and all the filters. As always, went out to start it and checked all my levels first. Got a surprise when my engine oil was at the top of the dipstick and milky. Can't figure that one out. All my other levels were where they were suppose to be. Do you know of anyway possible for fluid to get into the engine accept from the coolant? This does not smell like coolant and I didn't lose any coolant. Haven't had any rain lately and haven't made any girls mad that would have put a water hose in my valve cover. Scratching my scalp a little on this one.


----------



## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

I tried to post, but got a database error. 

Get an oil sampling kit and have the oil sample checked by a lab. Cat, Amsoil, most equipment dealers, all carry those kits and offer the service. 

That will narrow down the source.

The short answer is that there is no pathway through which other fluids can enter the engine oil pan on the Ford 4500. The obvious is antifreeze in the engine oil, and that portends a leaking head gasket or a cracked block or head.


----------



## King1094 (Dec 20, 2015)

Thanks RC, I know that these things are notorious for having bad castings for engine blocks. The odd thing was that I have never had a problem until the oil change. The oil level was always the same and black. This is the first time I changed oil in the machine as I have only had it now for about 6 weeks. I used Rotella and a quart of Lucas. I'm wondering if the Rotella and Lucas didn't restore some pressure and blow the head gasket. Seems unlikely because it still runs like a scalded dog with no smoking. If the head gasket blew, would it still run the same with no smoke? Tearing into it tomorrow, hope to find out soon.


----------



## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Check your radiator for bubbles when it is at operating temperature and running. Remove the cap and watch for exhaust or compression bubbles rolling out of the filler neck.

Hold off tearing into it until you have performed an oil analysis. No sense spinning your wheels if the increased fluid is not coolant.

If it is diesel in the engine oil, that is much easier to correct.


----------



## ice1too (Apr 2, 2016)

losing speed in 3rd and 4th on an incline is directly related to the torque convertor. The stator inside the convertor is worn badly The convertor is a sealed welded unit. The stator is what amplifies the power of the convertor (the book gives a lot of good information on this in the "description of operation at the beginning of the chapter). If 1st and 2nd are strong like you say, it is not a clutch pack or pressure pump issue. I maintain a fleet of 445C and D models which are built the same, just later years. There is a pressure test port and if you have the manual and a test gauge, you can verify what I am saying by performing a stall test on the convertor with a pressure tester.
Heck, at 50 years old, I'm getting sluggish in high gears too. Ford NH has reman convertors available.


----------



## savethecars (Feb 22, 2015)

Hi There, I was reading this thread and just finished splitting and rebuilding my 1973 Ford 4500 backhoe transmission. We replaced torque convertor, seals, hydraulic pressure pump and transmission filter which ultimately caused all my internal problems, plus simply age. If you haven't fixed your problem yet I can send you photos and a parts list from Ford/newholland of the new parts we installed


----------



## King1094 (Dec 20, 2015)

ice1too, you more than likely just saved me some money and time. Although the converter is an expensive item, it is far better than the replace and hope method. This is especially true when you have to split the tractor. I replaced my transmission fluid with all purpose and added 2 quarts of Lucas Hydraulic Boost. This helped out tremendously. This makes me think that you are correct about the torque converter. Thanks for the help.


----------



## King1094 (Dec 20, 2015)

savethecars, that would be awesome! I would appreciate anything you could send. The manuals are great, but real pictures are far better. Also, the parts list I do not have. This is exactly what I will be doing to mine, so any help you could offer would be great.


----------



## savethecars (Feb 22, 2015)

Here is what we did. A lot of the damage in the photos was old damage from previous owner. Tractor sat for years before I bought and experience what you are going thru. You can see by the last photo of the transmission filter it was plugged so bad it sucked the screen in. I flushed my tran's about 5 times before operating it. Installed new torque convertor,Hydraulic tranny pump, transmission filter and all new seals. Runs and pushes dirt like a new tractor. Send me your email to mine> [email protected] & ill send your parts list numbers.


----------



## King1094 (Dec 20, 2015)

savethecars. Wow, thanks for the photos. They do help tremendously. I can get an idea of what I have to deal with now. Looks like a lot of work, but I know it is worth it when your tractor runs like new. Do you have to split the tractor to get to the trans filter?


----------

