# Red Diesel



## lb59

RED DIESEL
Got the first off road diesel I ever bought today.
Had to drive 24 miles from home to get it. This is the only place within 25 miles of here that has the off road diesel.
Got 28.4 gallon at 2.50 per gallon. 
0n road here is 2.83 to 2.95 a gallon.


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## Lamar Holland

for me, it just isn't worth it.. Diesel here is 310 to 324 depending which station. In either case, the CT state police are on the highway testing for dyed fuel. Even when I pull my L 48 trailering to wherever, it isn't worth the hassle when that radar type gun picks up dyed fuel I'd be pulled over and checked out thoroughly and time is more important than saving 5.00 for dyed vs diesel...


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## lb59

> _Originally posted by Lamar Holland _
> *for me, it just isn't worth it.. Diesel here is 310 to 324 depending which station. In either case, the CT state police are on the highway testing for dyed fuel. Even when I pull my L 48 trailering to wherever, it isn't worth the hassle when that radar type gun picks up dyed fuel I'd be pulled over and checked out thoroughly and time is more important than saving 5.00 for dyed vs diesel... *


Why would they pull you over for having red diesel in your tractor?
That's legal isn't it?


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## Lamar Holland

let me make this as short as possible. They park just off our property in a cruiser,and look down on I 84.. The trooper is aiming what LOOKS LIKE a radar gun. IT is not a radar gun, it is an updated version of the sniffer we used many moons ago in a different land,... Hard to believe, I know,, the guy sits there aiming at all the fuel tanks on trucks going by.. They don't even have to stick tanks anymore... Big fines for running red diesel as you can imagine. Besides this, they go through a truck with a fine tooth comb, and can always find twelve more things to write you up over.. The fact that dyed diesel would be in the tractor will automatically have me pulled into the scale house. I most likely would get away with it, I still cannot afford a massive loss of time in any given day when I am trailering the L 48 to a job site... When you are pulled into the scale, they don't care if you are held up for five hours or more.. Besides, my Dodge diesel would be checked and even though my maintenance is better than most, again I don't need this loss of time.,.. Therefore,, the extra 5 or 9 dollars spent at the pump, is far less than another 5 hour wait plus lot's of harrassment..


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## Live Oak

I will have to read up on this. First I have heard of a sniffer gun to detect red dye diesel fuel. Wouldn't surprise me if they had something like that. I use the red dye or Ag diesel in my Deere and the green diesel in the Dodge.


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## Lamar Holland

Archdean can tell you, many moons ago, we used sniffers over seas,, And, they are very accurate,.. Hard to believe,, In CT last year , they had a big write up about the sniffers, very costly.. I think it was 36,000 for one set and they have two, One here a mile from me and the other working 91-95 corridor around New Haven.


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## Lamar Holland

> _Originally posted by Chief _
> *I will have to read up on this. First I have heard of a sniffer gun to detect red dye diesel fuel. Wouldn't surprise me if they had something like that. I use the red dye or Ag diesel in my Deere and the green diesel in the Dodge. *


I could do the same as you,, my problem is as I stated, the fact that I'm trailering my tractor and if it had red dyed diesel, they would pick up on it. Of course they would think it in my Dodge. I can't afford the major loss of time, while waiting in line at the scale to prove them wrong.. It just isn't worth the hassle to me when the most I can put in the machine is ten gallons anyway. The other thing is, our dyded diesel is extremely high and not much less than green, So what am I really saving? The paperwork alone, supposed farm and all that, is another reason it isn't worth it to me....


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## Fordfarm

Especially not woth it when you had to drive 50 miles round trip! You used about the same amount in the high priced Diesel as you saved by buying the off road stuff! I don't own anything Diesel, but out here they used to sell "tractor fuel" which was non taxed gasoline. It was died blue. It would be nice to have it available again!


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## lb59

> _Originally posted by Fordfarm _
> *Especially not woth it when you had to drive 50 miles round trip! You used about the same amount in the high priced Diesel as you saved by buying the off road stuff! I don't own anything Diesel, but out here they used to sell "tractor fuel" which was non taxed gasoline. It was died blue. It would be nice to have it available again! *


<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>
It wasn't a 50 mile round trip just to get the red diesel.
I was already within 4 miles of the station on other buisness.
It made more sence to drive 4 miles and get 28.4 gallons of the red diesel for $71.00 than it did to come home and drive the same 4 mile distance to my local station and pay $83.78 for 28.4 Gal. of on road diesel.


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## Live Oak

I think ya done alright lb. I am all for savings any way I can get it. A dollar's a dollar! :money: :thumbsup:


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## Fordfarm

Yeah - it's pretty amazing - you used to be able to get off-road gas or diesel just about anywhere (especially in a small, rural, town). Now it's getting hard to find anywhere! I guess the state wants their tax dollars!


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## lb59

> _Originally posted by Fordfarm _
> *Yeah - it's pretty amazing - you used to be able to get off-road gas or diesel just about anywhere (especially in a small, rural, town). Now it's getting hard to find anywhere! I guess the state wants their tax dollars! *


I guess the state wants their tax dollars!
But the rub is it's not their tax dollars.


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## HarryG

> _Originally posted by lb59 _
> *I guess the state wants their tax dollars!
> But the rub is it's not their tax dollars. *



Big Brother INSISTS they are entitled to YOUR and MY money. 
After all, we are incapable of taking care of ourselves according to the politicians.


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## Archdean

Apparently so!! We put them there!!


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## lb59

Since the tax is a State or Federal highway use tax
the only time it's taxable is when a vehicle is driven on a US or State Highway;
therefore the tax would not apply on vehicles operated on county and township roads or city streets.


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## johndeere

Thats not the way it works in Illinois.If its a titled vehical you better not get caught with red dyed non taxed fuel in it.Does not matter if its a county road.

Never heard of a sniffer.Around here they just take a sample from the tank.Im not sure how it works if you have a tractor and do not farm or a contractor?I guess its legal.But never seen non taxed gas.So why should you be allowed to have non taxed diesl if you example have a diesl lawn mower.While a landscaper or farmer using a gas tractor has to pay a tax.


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## twentynine

Not trying to start a fight, but how does this sniffer smell red?

Higher sulfur content in the exhaust? Why would they point the sniffer at the fuel tank? Shouldn't they point it at the exhaust? How do they then detect dyed fuel in a tractor that is not running? How can they be sure the exhaust is from the correct truck? 

I have access to a temp sensing gun works on IR. Tells me how hot/warm something is from a distance. But it doesn't have to analyze sulfur content or color. Okay, maybe the red fuel is warmer because it is a darker color? No I don't think so, it's enclosed in a fuel tank, can't absorb energy from light if it's inside a dark fuel tank. 

How does a red fuel sniffer gun work if it can't collect even one molecule for analysis. It can't see the red. Remember the truck is running down the highway with the fuel cop standing on the side of the road. Exhaust fumes? But the tractor being towed on the trailer isn't running.

Yah got me? 

No method like that is used around here, just the old fashion pull you over and sample the tank. Further more I have never heard of a passenger vehicle being pulled over just to check the fuel. Course some of them yankee states could play rough. I guess if you P-off the state trooper anything is possible. La. DOTD does check the semis at the weigh stations on the interstate sometimes. But they sample the tanks. 

Gas-- In some states if you purchase gasoline for non road use you can apply for a refund of the road taxes paid. For instance if you purchase fuel for a boat that is going to be used on the water.


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## lb59

> _Originally posted by johndeere _
> *Thats not the way it works in Illinois.If its a titled vehical you better not get caught with red dyed non taxed fuel in it.Does not matter if its a county road.
> 
> Never heard of a sniffer.Around here they just take a sample from the tank.Im not sure how it works if you have a tractor and do not farm or a contractor?I guess its legal.But never seen non taxed gas.So why should you be allowed to have non taxed diesl if you example have a diesl lawn mower.While a landscaper or farmer using a gas tractor has to pay a tax. *


1*If its a titled vehicle you better not get caught with red dyed non taxed fuel in it.
2*Does not matter if its a county road.
3*Around here they just take a sample from the tank
4*Im not sure how it works if you have a tractor and do not farm or you are a contractor?
I guess its legal.
6*never seen non taxed gas.
7*So why should you be allowed to have non taxed diesel if for example you have a diesel lawn mower, while a landscaper or farmer using a gas tractor has to pay a tax.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
1* Does this also apply when the vehicle isn't on the road?
I still say it depends on where the fuel is being used rather than what vehicle the fuel is in.
2*
3*But they would have to catch the vehicle on the road to take the sample wouldn't they?
4* It's legal because The tax is applied based on where the fuel is used not on who is using it what it's being used for nor the occupation of the user.
7*Ok you are a farmer using non taxed off road diesel and you go out and buy a gas powered lawn tractor to mow your yard does that mean you should now have to buy the taxed on road diesel?


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## chrpmaster

Around here you can get non road taxed gas and diesel delivered from any of the farm coop's. As far as the dyed diesel around here they have farm license plates for pickups and (I think) that would prevent any fines for running farm diesel on the road. I haven't tried it. Mainly because I don't have the money to buy a diesel pickup. :dazed:


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## Lamar Holland

twentynine,
I was told the red dye it's self, has an agent in it that the sniffer can pick up. Let me tell you, this government has many things such as the sniffer, that John Q public won't believe. We used the sniffer over 30 years ago, flying over the jungles in Vietnam. They were highly effective and proved their worth first time out.. A good monitor could tell the difference between four men and a tiger hiding under the trees. In this instance, the sniffer picked up ammonia that all living things but reptiles, (snakes for instance) give off. Some years ago, Tom Brokaw of NBC news followed a Nat'l guard chopper out in the Dakota's.. There was so much snow that farmers couldn't get to, never mind find thier cattle. The sniffer would yell mark, and a Chinook following behind would drop bales of hay. every instance, after the bales collapsed the snow, several head of cattle would be seen. I understand to most that this diesel smelling sniffer sounds like something from outerspace. Believe me, it is not,


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## lb59

> _Originally posted by Lamar Holland _
> *twentynine,
> I was told the red dye it's self, has an agent in it that the sniffer can pick up. Let me tell you, this government has many things such as the sniffer, that John Q public won't believe. We used the sniffer over 30 years ago, flying over the jungles in Vietnam. They were highly effective and proved their worth first time out.. A good monitor could tell the difference between four men and a tiger hiding under the trees. In this instance, the sniffer picked up ammonia that all living things but reptiles, (snakes for instance) give off. Some years ago, Tom Brokaw of NBC news followed a Nat'l guard chopper out in the Dakota's.. There was so much snow that farmers couldn't get to, never mind find thier cattle. The sniffer would yell mark, and a Chinook following behind would drop bales of hay. every instance, after the bales collapsed the snow, several head of cattle would be seen. I understand to most that this diesel smelling sniffer sounds like something from outerspace. Believe me, it is not, *


 Sniffer or no sniffer the fuel has to be in use on the road before it becomes a violation.


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## Lamar Holland

no one is arguing this point. I said many posts ago, that the CT state police aim this sniffer onto interstate 84 and pick up red dyed diesel in trucks using the highway... Simple enough


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## lb59

> _Originally posted by lb59 _
> *Since the tax is a State or Federal highway use tax
> the only time it's taxable is when a vehicle is driven on a US or State Highway;
> therefore the tax would not apply on vehicles operated on county and township roads or city streets. *


CORRECTION TO ABOVE STATEMENT.

Since the tax is a State or Federal highway use tax wouldn't the tax only be applicable when a vehicle is driven on a US or State Highway; but not if operated on county and township roads or city streets?


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## Fordfarm

Dunno about the finer points of this, but in Nebraska it doesn't say "State" or "Federal" taxes - it says "OFF ROAD USE ONLY". I agree - why give the cops ANY excuse to pull you over. I suppose that, if you want to get technical about it, if you drive your tractor on the road to get to your field, it is no longer "off road". Since the Husbandry Laws that most states have (at least in this part of the country) cover operation of machinery on State/Federal roads, it is no longer a valid issue. Besides, if you delve into it - a lot of "county" roads are actually FAS routes - Federal Aid Secondary - which means they have Fed money in them, but are maintained by the county. If ever the need arises, these are the first roads that the Feds use beyond the highway system.
Just rambling!:smoking:


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## Mecheng

I got an MFA Coop that sells it close my farm. It's also a blend with biodiesel. Runs fine in my tractor.


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## twentynine

Well the people sniffer in Nam picked up ammonia molecules in the air, the cattle locator could use IR or the ammonia molecule.

But obviously it can't sniff what hasn't passed on the road yet or in the case of the tractor on the trailer, not emitting any exhaust. So their isn't any molecule for it to sniff, ammonia, sulfur, carbon, hydrogen, whatever.

Inorder to be detected the red dye would have to emit something that could be gathered by the sniffer and enumerated. Heat which is unlikely, discussed earlier. Sulfur but only when burnt so the offending vehicle would have to burn it and then the exhaust products analyzed. But the policeman is standing on the side the road, how does he know where or who the offending exhaust is comming from. And once again your tractor isn't running so it is not emitting anything. Magnitism, electrical charge, radiation. But I ain't never seen a warning sign at a fuel station. Lordy! Can you imagine the hullabalue over radiation in fuel? Grounding of the fuel tank would negate the electrical deal. 

If it's sensitive enough to pick up a few gallons of red dye in the tractor, wouldn't it be sensitive enough to determine the difference between the location of the truck fuel tank and the location of the tractor fuel tank. Even if it can't while traveling down the road, surely it could once the range were closed?

I am going to make a few calls, I have aclose friend who owns a fuel bulk plant.

Until then.

Look out for them black choppers--------!!!!!!!!


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## johndeere

Different states have different rules and regs.Illinois does not have a farm plate for pickup trucks.You pay the same for the plate as the city guy.

Sure you can use dyed fuel in a pickup.Until you get caught.Then you pay a fine many times over the amount saved.DOT cops run the roads around me and they can and will check.He lives a few miles up the road from me.

You could say I did not know that.But Illinois cops just say ignorance of the law in not excuse.

As for red dye fuel.Its added to the fuel and comes in 2 1/2 gallon jugs.Its added to the fuel as its pumped on the delievry truck.My brother was a driver and delievered many semi loads of both taxed and non taxed fuel.Low sulfer content fuel has nothing to do with the dye added


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## DEERE180

It is quite interesting that diesel fuel or even heating oil #2 is often untaxed for specific purposes. That is why the red dye (color) is added to it. In many european countries the taxes on fuel are VERY high which is why they pay like 4 to 7 buck per US gallon. However, fuel for heating has little or no tax on it. So one can often see cabbies (taxi drivers) bveing pulled over by cops and check their fuel colors. If it is RED or pink they get a hefty fine right there!!!

As I understand MANY states have similar rules and if such untaxed fuel is found in vehicles used on highways or public roadways then the TAX gods will send you to jail or worse!


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## two guns

I agree 100% with Twenty Nine,

And I will add something else to the subject. Come from the 
mouth of a La. DOT Trooper, the if you add to much Marvel Mystery Oil, which is dyed red, to your taxed fuel. When they stick your tank, it will show up as Farm-Fuel by the properties of the dye. But he said that it would take alot of MMO, and also, most people don't run that much Mystery Oil every tank. That was a subject during one of thier meetings a few years ago.


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## lb59

> _Originally posted by lb59 _
> *RED DIESEL
> Got the first off road diesel I ever bought today.
> Had to drive 24 miles from home to get it.
> *This is the only place within 25 miles of here that has the off road diesel.
> Got 28.4 gallon at 2.50 per gallon.
> 0n road here is 2.83 to 2.95 a gallon. *


  Up date:

Was just down to this place this past Friday and bought 18 gallon of red diesel.
Paid 2.45 a gallon.
Was just noticing I paid 2.50 per gallon in my original post. 
Amazing something cost less today than it did over a year ago!
*Well it was all I was aware of at the time.
Have since found out there is another place about 25 miles in another direction from here.
But the great thing for me is (since the original post) I've discovered 3 places closer to home where I can get the red stuff. 
2 of the places are about 4 miles to 5 miles from my place and the 3rd one 6 to 7 miles from the house.


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## two guns

My question is, how much farm fuel do you use ?

If you go threw alot, purchase it in bulks and not in just several gallons at a time. If be, purchase a 55 gal. drum and pump it as 
you need it. That way you will have to run NO miles for tax-free fuel, you have it there right under your feet. Down here where I am from, the suppliers give a few cents discount on bulk purchases anyway, so you be getting a better deal all around.
Saving on fuel both ways, from the cost of going to picking it up,
and the fuel you will be burning in your tractor !!!! We purchase anywhere from 500 to 750 gals of farm fuel at a time, put in the the bulk tanks on the plantation, and fill up the tractors from there. :tractorsm


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## Morgan

We get about 2000 gallons a month Farm Fuel (red dye) and around 2000 gallons of road fuel a month. Right now we are running 4 diesel powed irrigation pumps that really drink the fuel.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/morganparadise/Junk/irrigation.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

It takes a lot of fuel to irrigate 1000 acres of sod


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## dhs

That's ok, thanks.


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## flman

I thought red fuel was just #2 fuel oil? That is not all that hard to come by?


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## Fordfarm

In Nebraska, there is no "off road" and "on road" You pay the tax, then send in recipts to the State Revenue Service to get a "refund".....


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