# LT1000 newbie; balky gear shift



## jboatri (Mar 9, 2015)

Hi All,

I just bought an LT1000, 42 inch deck, 17 hp briggs & stratton OHC engine for $200. Year and specific sub-model unknown. Changed the oil, kicked the tires, lit the fires, and it runs strong. Blades engage, grass gets cut, ground is covered, even pulled a fairly heavy off road vehicle across a field this afternoon. 

So far, so good. But, it's balky getting into gears, though it eventually "goes" with a little clutch feathering and lever jiggling. The seller said it needs a new belt installed, and in fact he gave me one with the sale (also, new blades and new spindles, though I don't see anything wrong with those currently running on the mower). However, the belt seems to be the serpentine for the blades. Is the same belt somehow involved with transmission?

I am completely pig-ignorant of what to look for in terms of even getting the right manual. I could not find any serial numbers or other identifiers. Could you direct me with where to look for those?

Thanks,

Jeff


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## jboatri (Mar 9, 2015)

*Sorry, that engine is a B&S 17 IC OHV*

See, I'm a newbie. The engine is not an "OHC" but rather a "17 IC OHV". Not that that helps me, but maybe it will help you in helping me identify the mower. Also, fwiw, the body color is dark green. I've attached a picture.

You've heard of the "Small House" movement? This is a small house that moves! 

And no, that's NOT the off-road vehicle I wrote about in the first post...


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

Welcome to the forum!

If I understand you correctly, the lawn tractor doesn't want to shift into gear properly. Once it is in gear, does it stay there?

I've three gear drive units, and sometimes I've got to "feather" the clutch to get it into gear. I'm guessing it's 'cause they're not synchronized or just the nature of them. When the temperature's below 30° Fahrenheit, it's even more pronounced, and the shifter feels like it's stuck in molasses. 

The ground and deck drive (PTO) are two separate belts. 

Cheers,
bolillo


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

Welcome to the forum,jboatri !
I've had some like that,as well,and I've found that NOT pushing the clutch pedal all the way,some times helps.Just enough to release it. It's almost like it over-travels,when pushed all the way down.
As for the model # ,look under the seat,for a decal.If it's not there,post your engine #s,and I can back-track it from there.The engine #s will be either on an aluminum tag,riveted to the cooling shroud,OR stamped into the valve cover.
Just off the top of my head,the tractor model # should be:917.27337,for a 2004 model.


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

Good eye jhngardner367! I'm a complete tosspot at times! I didn't even see the question about the serial number and manual. 

I've got a question. Don't they put both the model and serial numbers on tags under the seat? I thought this was SOP. I do understand that somebody could have removed it. 

toodle pip,
bolillo


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

Right you are bolillo loco.Many owners used to complain that the tags got oily,and fell off,if put on the frame,so they started putting them under the seat.
They still get pulled off,or torn up,but they do last longer there.


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## jboatri (Mar 9, 2015)

bolillo_loco said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> If I understand you correctly, the lawn tractor doesn't want to shift into gear properly. Once it is in gear, does it stay there?
> 
> ...


Thanks much for the response. Yes, shifting into gear is difficult. Yanking it out of gear is difficult, too. It does stay in gear without further help from me.


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## jboatri (Mar 9, 2015)

jhngardner367 said:


> Welcome to the forum,jboatri !
> I've had some like that,as well,and I've found that NOT pushing the clutch pedal all the way,some times helps.Just enough to release it. It's almost like it over-travels,when pushed all the way down.
> As for the model # ,look under the seat,for a decal.If it's not there,post your engine #s,and I can back-track it from there.The engine #s will be either on an aluminum tag,riveted to the cooling shroud,OR stamped into the valve cover.
> Just off the top of my head,the tractor model # should be:917.27337,for a 2004 model.


Thanks much for the reply. I'll play around with the pedal more. I've looked under the seat and there isn't a decal. I'll check for the engine number -- thanks for the detailed info about where to look. That will be really helpful.


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## jboatri (Mar 9, 2015)

bolillo_loco said:


> Good eye jhngardner367! I'm a complete tosspot at times! I didn't even see the question about the serial number and manual.
> 
> I've got a question. Don't they put both the model and serial numbers on tags under the seat? I thought this was SOP. I do understand that somebody could have removed it.
> 
> ...


Yep, I think the S/N decal got removed. I sure didn't see it when I went looking for it (I knew that it should be somewhere under the seat).

Everything works on the tractor, the seller sold it with a new belt. The old belts are still intact (though very worn and stretched), so probably the best bet is to replace them all while they're still in place (I _think_ there are a total of three total). Hopefully I can get close to what I need even without an exact S/N.


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## skunkhome (Nov 30, 2008)

I am inclined to think that the clutch is not releasing properly. It is either not adjusted properly or other parts associated with the clutch are out of adjustment. Often I have seen with these vertical engine tractors that the belt stops are either missing or are in the wrong position. These stops are usually made of heavy wire and are positioned near the engine pulley and also sometimes around the transmission input pulley. They have to be positioned usually with no more than 1/8" clearance from the belt with the clutch engaged. When the clutch is depressed (disengaged), the loose belt flares out and catches on the stops. When they are missing or maladjusted the belt will continue to circulate and turn the transmission input shaft making it very difficult to shift. I would advise not operation the tractor until you get that sorted out as jamming gears can cause transmission damage.


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

Any guarantee the new belt is the correct length?


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## jboatri (Mar 9, 2015)

Here are some data. Does this help with identifying the tractor?

Under-seat sticker:
On right side of sticker:
04/15/02
S.N. 279572
On left:
4360 140
170269

On valve cover:
Model 310707
Type 0137 E1
Code 020417ZA

Sticker under hood listing part numbers:
Primary mower belt 144959
Ground drive belt 160855
Oil capacity 48 oz

On air filter:
Briggs and Stratton
Family YBSXS.5012VP
274826


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

My list with that engine Model & Type-

NOTE EDIT REVISED LIST
I removed all the ones with a hydro transmission.
917.
250440
271555
271630
271631
271633
271634
271642
271650
271651
271652
271653
271654


The engine date code is April 17 2002.

Go to-
searspartsdirect.com and enter 917. + the 6 digit number above.
Compare belt numbers & transaxle (4360-140)
Foote Dana Spicer all the same.


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## jboatri (Mar 9, 2015)

Bill Kapaun said:


> Any guarantee the new belt is the correct length?


Not a guarantee, but the new belt that came with the sale is 144959, which is a part number for a mower deck belt that matches several of the tractor S/Ns that are on the list you kindly winnowed down for me. The old belt is in such bad shape that it's probably too stretched to use as a guideline.


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## jboatri (Mar 9, 2015)

Bill Kapaun said:


> My list with that engine Model & Type-
> 
> NOTE EDIT REVISED LIST
> I removed all the ones with a hydro transmission.
> ...


Hi Bill,

Following your suggestion, I found the following have the matching numbers:

917.
250440
271555
271630
271631
271633
271634
271651
271652
271653


These have different transaxles and belts:
271642
271650
271654

The list is getting shorter!


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

More elimination-
These are the dates of the Owners Manuals, so you can eliminate those before 2002, or maybe late 2001?

Keep in mind, there are likely numbers that I don't have. There may be a 271632 etc.
This is a data base I've constructed over the years. It's certainly not "official".
250440---????
271555 ---9/26/2002
271630 ---11/16/2000
271631---9/14/2001
271633---3/26/2001
271634---4/16/2001
271651----2/4/2002
271652---3/5/2002
271653---5/13/2002


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## jboatri (Mar 9, 2015)

Bill Kapaun said:


> More elimination-
> These are the dates of the Owners Manuals, so you can eliminate those before 2002, or maybe late 2001?
> 
> Keep in mind, there are likely numbers that I don't have. There may be a 271632 etc.
> ...


Narrowing it down even further (I am beginning to wonder if I'd had too much coffee)...

Based on the covers of the manuals, 

271555 ---9/26/2002
271630 ---11/16/2000
271631---9/14/2001
271633---3/26/2001
271634---4/16/2001

All have the wrong engine (15.5 or 16.5 HP), whereas 

271651----2/4/2002
271652---3/5/2002
271653---5/13/2002

have the correct 17 HP engine. This corresponds to Bill's point about exclusion-by-date.

Alas, 250440 remains a mystery. :nerd:


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

DUH!
I didn't think to look at the cover for HP????
Interesting how Sears labels them differently although they have the IDENTICAL engine.
Briggs used to be known for using different HP decals on an otherwise identical engine, but that would be covered in the Type #.

Maybe the ones that used a different belt had a different width mower deck?

Anyway, I'd go with 271651 until something else proves it wrong.

The difference between it and 271652&3 might be as simple as a paint color? That would show a different PN for the "painted" parts.
OTOH, I've seen a spread of 4 consecutive model#'s use 3 different electrical schematics.

Just curious if the engine has a HP decal? I would expect not.


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## jboatri (Mar 9, 2015)

Bill Kapaun said:


> ...
> 
> Just curious if the engine has a HP decal? I would expect not.


Don't know, but I don't think so. I'll check over the weekend.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

Try this one :http://www.searspartsdirect.com/Cra...el-917271634/0247/1509200/P0104155/00003.html


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

jhngardner367 said:


> Try this one :http://www.searspartsdirect.com/Cra...el-917271634/0247/1509200/P0104155/00003.html


That ones already been eliminated because of the wrong HP rating per post #17.


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## 68plymouth383 (Mar 10, 2015)

They used very few belt, and deck configurations. The craftsman riding mower with a 42" deck 3 bolt blade mandrels, and manual pto uses a 144959 belt. That looks to be what you have.


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## jboatri (Mar 9, 2015)

skunkhome said:


> I am inclined to think that the clutch is not releasing properly. It is either not adjusted properly or other parts associated with the clutch are out of adjustment. Often I have seen with these vertical engine tractors that the belt stops are either missing or are in the wrong position. These stops are usually made of heavy wire and are positioned near the engine pulley and also sometimes around the transmission input pulley. They have to be positioned usually with no more than 1/8" clearance from the belt with the clutch engaged. When the clutch is depressed (disengaged), the loose belt flares out and catches on the stops. When they are missing or maladjusted the belt will continue to circulate and turn the transmission input shaft making it very difficult to shift. I would advise not operation the tractor until you get that sorted out as jamming gears can cause transmission damage.


Hi SkunkHome,

Thanks for the reply.

I replaced the drive and deck belts yesterday. I checked the operation of the clutch; it appears to be working in that depressing the clutch pedal causes the Clutching Idler to move enough to allow the belt to slacken. Only the very last part of pedal movement is involved in Idler motion. That may or may not be correct (I've never used one of these mowers before). 

The belt stops (or keepers) are present. The one around the transmission pulley is very close as you describe. The center span keeper is present. Both "kept" the old belt. I slid the new belt around or into during replacement. 

The keeper adjacent to the Clutch Idler and the Stationary Idler seems out of place. It more-or-less looks like a squared ring. One would think that the belt should run inside this ring. However, the old belt did not. I installed the new belt inside of this keeper and it looked very wrong. In this position, the belt would constantly be rubbing on the keeper. Also, this positioning prevented much contact with the Stationary Idler and made the angle of the belt coming onto the Clutch Idler much more acute. So, I took the belt outside of the keeper, positioning it as the old belt had been. I have attached a photo of the old belt installation at this station.

When I tested depressing the clutch pedal, the new belt released (slacked up) from the drive pulley just as the old belt had done. Unfortunately, there is now no effect of depressing the clutch pedal beyond that. That is, if I start in a gear other than Neutral, the tractor moves. Depressing the clutch pedal does not slow the tractor as it did when the old belt was installed. I've looked at the manual, and beyond adjustment of the shift lever for neutral position, I don't see much help there. Getting into or out of gear is not easier or harder with the new belt.

I seem to be going backwards. Suggestions welcomed!


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## jboatri (Mar 9, 2015)

Bill Kapaun said:


> ...
> 
> Just curious if the engine has a HP decal? I would expect not.


Hi Bill,


Took a couple of pix of the engine yesterday (attached), showing HP decal (!) and numbers.

And now I have another question. The engine starts right up every time, no problem. I start it with the throttle lever moved all the way up to "choke" it. As it warms up, I move the throttle to a lower position. However, after further warm up, the engine starts blowing a little black smoke and bogs down when I advance the throttle. 

When I bought the mower, I noticed that the seller would always lift the hood and manipulate something around the where the throttle cable end connected to some linkage. By process of elimination I later determined that pulling on an oblong wire loop seems to "open something up" and lets the engine run smoothly at higher rpms. 

I've worked the throttle up and down to see what's happening at the cable end. A linkage moves forward and aft, describing a shallow arc. It seems to me that if this linkage was connected to the wire hoop, maybe by a spring, that I wouldn't have to manually pull on the hoop to "open something up" and allow the engine to run at speed. Is there supposed to be a connecting spring? I've attached some photos to help you understand what I'm talking about. 

Thanks again,

Jeff


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## Bill Kapaun (May 8, 2007)

Sounds like the choke might be "in play" here.
I'm not an engine guy, but possibly moving the cable housing a bit "might" make a difference??
If not, the clamp will probably leave enough of a mark that you can relocate it back to where you started.

I wonder if if Sears/AYP adds the Craftsman decal to the engine?
OIW, if one bought the decal set from Briggs for that specific engine, what would be in it? Multiple HP decals?


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