# Poor spark - Not no spark



## Endmill (Jul 9, 2016)

Hi Everyone
I have a mystery. I have a 1976 7016H Simplicity. It has a 16 H/P 326431-0190-01 engine. It has poor spark. If I hold on to the end of the spark plug wire with my hand, while turning over the engine, I get a slight jolt from the wire. It’s not much of a jolt at all. I have an in line spark plug checker, the type with a light bulb in it. There isn’t enough voltage to light the light-bulb. I set the sparkplug checker on another one of my tractors, the light bulb glows as it should. 
I have replaced the coil, the voltage regulator and it has a new wiring harness. The coil is gapped at .012. I gapped it at different times .008 through .014 with feeler gauges, and the spark did not improve. It has a new electronic ignition module. I tried the electronic ignition on another tractor, and it worked fine. I tried the points and the spark did not improve. While turning the engine over, I grounded out a new spark plug. It had no spark. I grounded out the sparkplug wire against the engine block the only spark that I could see is when I completely grounded out the wire. If I pulled the wire away from ground, it would not spark. No spark jump. I removed the nut on the flywheel and then examined the 3/16 key. The key-ways on the crankshaft and the flywheel lined up so the key has not sheared. So I now can presume that the timing is still good. I tried to remove the flywheel today with a gear puller that applied force to the crankshaft, and with 5/16-18 threaded bolts to the flywheel. Not a 3 jaw type gear puller. It would not move even after heating the flywheel with a propane torch. So I can presume that the flywheel has not rotated on the crankshaft. I am not going to attempt to remove it unless I have a good reason. 
I would appreciate any advice on this. Does anyone have any ideas for me? Thanks in advance for the help and for reading this through.
Steve


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

To get a good spark ,these engines have to turn at leas 300 rpm.
Turning it,by hand does nothing.
Have you tried replacing the condenser,yet??


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

or the flywheel magnet has/is losing magnetism


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## Endmill (Jul 9, 2016)

Please don't take this the wrong way, I was turning the engine over under power. Using an electronic ignition module does not use a condenser or points ether. 
My biggest fear is getting that stuck flywheel off to replace it because of the poor magnet. I put a 5/8 wrench about an inch away and the flywheel grabbed the wrench.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Endmill --- We can rule out the magnet as being OK, could you remove the kill wire connector to the coil and spin the engine and see what happens.

Also could you check the coil mount points ( the stud holding towers ) as being shiny and clean, the coils soft iron core needs a good earth to provide a circuit.

Was the engine running before you changed coils and fitted the electronic ign. module ?.

Did the new coil come with its own HT lead or did you have to change the HT lead from the old coil ?, always questions mate !!!.


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## Endmill (Jul 9, 2016)

I will take the time to try running it up tomorrow with the kill wire removed. 

Is this “kill wire” supposed to be grounded at all times? I put an ohm meter on it and it is grounded out. 
The old coil is also grounded the same way so I’m thinking it is supposed to be that way.

I just pulled the engine out this afternoon and pushed the tractor out of the way. I was going to bench test it in the cellar without gas in the system. I will bolt it down and use the turn key, a grounded voltage regulator, and a battery. I have spent way too much time on this. I must get ready for winter now.
I ran a hand file over the mounts last week to clean them up. I see now that it was a good idea. 
I just got the tractor going for the first time in years, this spring. 
Yes, the coil came with its own spark plug wire. I had the electronic ignition module installed since this spring. 
The tractor was running great for a while this year. Then as time went by, it had problems starting. I would have to crank it over and over then finally it would fire up. At first I thought it was the carburetor. Then I checked the spark plug for a spark. It barely showed any signs of a spark. I didn't know how long this was going on. Maybe I had a poor spark all along. 
So I replaced the coil. After replacing the coil the spark was the same "poor". That's when I started throwing other new parts at it. I had no luck there, than came here for help. 

By the way, thank you so much for your help.
I'll be back tomorrow


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## bbirder (Feb 26, 2006)

Endmill,
When you crank it does it crank up to speed or does it hesitate and you release the key and try again?


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

"" Is this “kill wire” supposed to be grounded at all times""

only when the ignition switch is turned to the off position.

If you place a probe on the kill connection connector and the other probe to the coil body you will get a circuit, if you set the meter to ohms you will also get a resistance reading.

Sometimes you will only see the faintest of sparks across a spark plug gap, as long as it is a blue spark, it will be good, it is strange you have replaced the coil, fitted an electronic ign. module, new spark plug and you say your spark is not good ???.

A fuel problem will give you the same problem as an ign. problem, as silly as it may sound !! but don't jump into that yet, sort out the electrics first.


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## Endmill (Jul 9, 2016)

Hi
I crank it over, under power with the spark plug removed. I have a spark plug checker with a light bulb inside that is grounded. The tester works on my other tractors but not on this one. As I said I get a jolt when I hold the end of the ignition wire in my hand, but it's not enough to light up the tester or to create a spark. 
Thanks


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## Endmill (Jul 9, 2016)

So if I understand correctly, when the key is turned off. i should have a path to ground with the kill wire. Other wise, there should not be a path to ground when the key is on.
I will go and check this now. i will be back with my results. 
I am very grateful for your help with this.

Simplicity 7016 - 3 speed
Simplicity 7016 - H
Simplicity 3410 - 3 speed
simplicity 7013 - S
1955 Allis Chalmers Model "B"


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## bbirder (Feb 26, 2006)

bbirder said:


> Endmill,
> When you crank it does it crank up to speed or does it hesitate and you release the key and try again?


Endmill,
I meant when you crank with the plug in the cylinder. Is it hard to crank or hesitates.


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## Endmill (Jul 9, 2016)

I feel that it turned over normally.


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## Endmill (Jul 9, 2016)

It’s a fact that if your coil gap isn’t set right, you will not get an adequate spark. I know that mice got under the cover of my engine. My guess is that somehow their nest may have moved the old coil. When I replaced it, I did not have the air gap set properly. That’s when I came to your website for help. I would like to thank-you all very much. I am up and running just in time to put it into storage for winter. There was soothing that I did that I wanted to share with everyone. When it came to removing the large pulley on the front of the engine, I found it very difficult to remove the four small Philips head screws. So I used a small 1/8 diameter cutter to cut the screen over the 5/16 bolts. I cut the screen just enough to pull it back so I could put a ½ inch socket in. After assembling the engine I tapped the screen down over the bolts.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Endmill said:


> So if I understand correctly, when the key is turned off. i should have a path to ground with the kill wire. Other wise, there should not be a path to ground when the key is on.
> I will go and check this now. i will be back with my results.
> I am very grateful for your help with this.
> 
> ...


That is correct, I asked you to remove the kill wire from the coil just in case there may have been some leakage to ground, just trying to find out the cause of low output from the coil, I know and you know this should be working ??.

There is not much else that I can suggest as far as the ign. system is concerned, the flywheel magnet seems ok, you have new coil and electronic ignition module, new spark plug ???.

As a last resort, you could use your ohm meter to see if you have a circuit from the flywheel to the crankshaft, I am scratching at straws here, not much else to offer though.

Addendum ---

Well there you go, I was going to say air gap and how you where setting this, the best thing to use is a piece of clear plastic from a shirt box, this is about 0.015 to 0.020 in thickness and is ideal, you cut this long enough and wide enough to cover the length of the coil fingers, rotate the flywheel magnet away from the coil, loosen the coil studs and pull the coil back from the flywheel and nip the studs to hold the coil, place the plastic spacer between the flywheel and coil, rotate the flywheel and position the magnet between the coil fingers and loosen the retaining studs and allow the coil to pull up to the flywheel, then clamp the studs, so simple and less hassles, works a cinch mate. better than using feeler gauges.

Great, you are going again


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