# Attaching PTO Hydraulic Pump



## Beanue (Jul 16, 2021)

HI Folks, I will be hauling my Nortrac 25XT to a Northern Tool Mechanic about 80 miles from here this morning to replace a sheared off PTO Shaft. The question is when replaced I will have to attach my PTO Pump back on the shaft, and certainly don't want it to break again. So what is the best way to attach the PTO Pump, right now I have chains to hang it on and keep it from rotating, but that is how I had it attached before, is the pump too much weight to just hang on the PTO shaft or should I find a mount to attach directly to the tractor or? Maybe I need to attach somehow to hold the bulk of the weight. Any advise and Ideas would be greatly appreciated. To BIG T as soon as I know how the shaft was removed I will post it here.


Larry


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Beanue,

I had a Prince PTO pump mounted on a Massey Ferguson 150 tractor many years ago. As I recall, all it had was one chain installed per manufacturer's directions to prevent it from rotating.


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## Beanue (Jul 16, 2021)

BIG T northern tool is wondering if the pump caused the shaft to shear off frankly so am I either by weight or if the pump broke and then the shaft failed.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

I have the same concern. You can mount the pump on a 3-point platform and drive it with a PTO shaft. This takes the weight off of tractor's PTO shaft. I use this platform with my PTO generator (400 lbs). Works well.


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## Beanue (Jul 16, 2021)

BigT said:


> You can mount the pump on a 3-point platform and drive it with a PTO shaft. I use this platform with my PTO generator. Works well.
> 
> View attachment 73769


Bit T I don't think that would work because I only use the PTO Pump with my 3pt hitch backhoe, I was thinking maybe a bolt up mount on the rear of the tractor somehow, not sure just yet how to construct it, any ideas


Larry


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

Maybe mount a hydraulic pump on your backhoe?? OR maybe you can get a front - engine mount hydraulic pump?


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Rule of thumb is... Allow the pump to move freely but be restrained from rotational movement, IOW tether the pump to the tractor or PTO shield with a chain (not tight but loose) to allow some rotational movement when the pump 'rotates, but not spin completely around. I run a 8 vane roller pump on my pto shaft when spraying and my pump has no restraining chain but rather a 'torque arm' that allows the pump free movement but restrains it from rotation as the 'torque arm' hits the pto shield and limits rotation. Never secure any pump solidly to a pto shaft, no exceptions on that. Secured tightly prohibits any movement and can break the pto stub shaft off (as you found out). Hopefully, your backhoe is a subframe mount and not a 3PH mount. 3 PH mount backhoes are extremely hard on the rear transmission case and lower link mounts. I've seen a couple tractors with cracked cases from a 3ph mount backhoe. The digging forces are directly transmitted to the case via the top link and 3ph lower arms.


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## John Liebermann (Sep 17, 2018)

What SidecarFlip says. The important thing is to *have a restrains it from rotation as the 'torque arm. * Did you have your pump chained close to the center of rotation?


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

BigT said:


> I have the same concern. You can mount the pump on a 3-point platform and drive it with a PTO shaft. This takes the weight off of tractor's PTO shaft. I use this platform with my PTO generator (400 lbs). Works well.
> 
> View attachment 73769


Been my first hand experience that no pto pump is heavy enough to break a stub shaft off if restrained correctly. If tightly restrained, then breaking a stub shaft is a real possibility/


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## Beanue (Jul 16, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Rule of thumb is... Allow the pump to move freely but be restrained from rotational movement, IOW tether the pump to the tractor or PTO shield with a chain (not tight but loose) to allow some rotational movement when the pump 'rotates, but not spin completely around. I run a 8 vane roller pump on my pto shaft when spraying and my pump has no restraining chain but rather a 'torque arm' that allows the pump free movement but restrains it from rotation as the 'torque arm' hits the pto shield and limits rotation. Never secure any pump solidly to a pto shaft, no exceptions on that. Secured tightly prohibits any movement and can break the pto stub shaft off (as you found out). Hopefully, your backhoe is a subframe mount and not a 3PH mount. 3 PH mount backhoes are extremely hard on the rear transmission case and lower link mounts. I've seen a couple tractors with cracked cases from a 3ph mount backhoe. The digging forces are directly transmitted to the case via the top link and 3ph lower arms.


Side Car MY backhoe is a 3pt hitch backhoe can't change that, I am only digging in sand here in south florida so there is not a lot of load on the backhoe, but I did have it snug in tight so maybe that was at least part of the problem. I was really concerned that it was too free in movement but it appears it is better that way. I will look into a torque arm and maybe go that route. Thanks for the info



Larry


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## Beanue (Jul 16, 2021)

John Liebermann said:


> What SidecarFlip says. The important thing is to *have a restrains it from rotation as the 'torque arm. * Did you have your pump chained close to the center of rotation?


 John
Yes i did and from what I am reading that was wrong so I am going to look into a torque arm or loosen the chains.Thanks


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## Beanue (Jul 16, 2021)

Beanue said:


> Side Car MY backhoe is a 3pt hitch backhoe can't change that, I am only digging in sand here in south florida so there is not a lot of load on the backhoe, but I did have it snug in tight so maybe that was at least part of the problem. I was really concerned that it was too free in movement but it appears it is better that way. I will look into a torque arm and maybe go that route. Thanks for the info
> 
> 
> 
> Larry


 is it possible to use a mounting plate and bolt the pto pump directly to that????


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## John Liebermann (Sep 17, 2018)

The weight of the pump is insignificant to the PTO shaft. What is significant is the side loading created by the torque restraining mechanism. You must have an arm of some sort away from the PTO center line. 

Prob OK to build a bracket to hold the pump but unnecessary and would be difficult to keep in line and probably require some kind of flex coupling.


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## John Liebermann (Sep 17, 2018)

Beanue said:


> Yes i did and from what I am reading that was wrong so I am going to look into a torque arm or loosen the chains.Thanks


Beanue, Loosing the chains does nothing as they will merely tighten up when the pump is put to work. You must have a torque arm of some sort! 

Imagine if you were to hold the pump (by hand) from rotating and you could only do it from one place on the perimiter of the pump housing, would you not want to have a lever of some kind to get you away from the center? The closer you are to the center the greater the side loading, and the shaft has to overcome this, according to Newton anyway.


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## John Liebermann (Sep 17, 2018)

Oh and I forgot, when you restrain the torque lever, be sure and do it perpendicular to the lever. The reason I thought of that, I had a friend that used a chail to the lever and he just went to the closest place on the tractor he could tie it!!! Gotta be 90deg or close.


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## Beanue (Jul 16, 2021)

Beanue said:


> Does anyone know where to buy on of these My backhoe has the connections but not that part, which looks like it could be a benefit also noticed another guy who has that rigid part but was contemplating running additional reinforcement back to the axles


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Looks like a simple bending job (with some gas axe persuasion) and simple drilling of flat stock.


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## Beanue (Jul 16, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Looks like a simple bending job (with some gas axe persuasion) and simple drilling of flat stock.


Sidecar

What is you opinion of these 2 items


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

They should remove some of the stress from the case so long as you don't try to use the backhoe to move the tractor and don't lift the rear tires off the ground when using it. Lifting the rear tires is what really stresses the axle casting.


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## Beanue (Jul 16, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> They should remove some of the stress from the case so long as you don't try to use the backhoe to move the tractor and don't lift the rear tires off the ground when using it. Lifting the rear tires is what really stresses the axle casting.


Sidecar

Thanks for the advice but I have never done either one, I was thinking 1/2 inch x 2 1/2 inch for the bar stock which is almost 3 think on the top bar and 1/2" x 2 1/2" on the other ones. Or maybe go to 5/8" or 3/4"


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Thicker the better but you still have to bend it so really thick will take some serious gas axe heating.


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## Beanue (Jul 16, 2021)

I have a torch and a welder but I was thinking the same thing


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