# 8n Starter Removal



## high-maint

Hi All,
Before I dissassemble my tractor to find there was an easier way to remove the starter I figured I would ask first.

Is there an easy way to remove the starter on an 8N?

I am having an issue with slow crank and the bendix not catching the flywheel all of the time.

I figure it is time to replace the parts. I have no idea how long ago they were replaced, if ever.

Thanks,
Steve
8N407


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## savage

2 remove starter just losen 2 bolts holding end cap till free.
sounds like u might have a bad spot on ringgear if so to fix
have to split tractor.when starter doesnt engage try turning 
engine a little by hand then try starter,if it engages then its
probely the ring gear/miss spelling is free lol
bill

lets see looking out window,
early 8n with up/down trans future prog
to30 good tractor not pretty
9n parts
early 8n with dearborn loader rebuilt end reworked tran &painted sold {i think}
in shop grandpops late highwheel 8n {3000HRS}& pops ac G




The opinions, comments, and advice offered by me here are mine alone. 
As such, they carry as much weight as a feather in a snow storm.
:smoking:


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## high-maint

*8N Starter*

I don't think it is the ring gear. You can push the starter button once or twice and it will only spin the drive. Then the next time the drive will engage the ring gear. I would say that if there is a ring gear problem, I would have to rotate the engine in order to grab good teeth. Yes? I don't have to do that. It just seems like the bendix does not extend all of the way.

Thanks for the input.

Steve


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## redbelly

*bendix quick fix*

try putting in lower gear and rock tractor back and forth then
return to neutral and start


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## Ingersoll444

Steve did you get your starter off, and fixed? 

I just pulled my engine off today on my N, and I looked at that starter for 5 min before I figured out what held it on. Never have seen a starter held on by its case bolts before.


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## high-maint

The good thing was that I was warned NOT to separate the body from the nose before I started. Otherwise, the brushes are a pain to put back. YES, I removed, had rebuilt, and installed.
Steve


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## RitchieDon

I found out too late about the end cap bolts serving a dual purpose for mounting. Fortunately, my re-builder laughed and said he was going to have to take it apart anyway. My question is about putting the starter back. It came out fairly easily because it was in parts. Now that it is whole again, I can't get it to worm back in. Do I have to remove the oil filter canister or is there a trick here? I am a new owner of a sweet 1950 8N and am having great fun learning about it on my own but a little help from those with experience helps sometimes.


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## Archdean

Sounds to me as if you just need to turn your flywheel a bit!!


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## RitchieDon

I didn't explain my problem properly. I am trying to insert the starter with the bendix drive attached. The spring on the end of the drive is hanging up in the flywheel. The oil filter is preventing me from inserting the starter assembly at a perfect angle.


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## Fordfarm

Sometimes you have to unbolt the oil canister and move it out of the way. Your "hole" in the case SHOULD have a "wallered out" spot on the outside th help give you more room (i.e. the hole isn't round). Try removing the oil canister, though, you will be able to wiggle the starter more.


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## RitchieDon

Thanks, Fordfarm, you were right. I simply removed the two bolts on the oil filter canister bracket and that gave me enough wiggle room to get the drive in easily. My problem now is that the new starter and drive did not fix my starting trouble.

The starter got to where it would not turn the engine over. It would spin but wouldn't engage the ring gear. I know this because the belt that turns the alternator doesn't move. After having the starter rebuilt (because I was told it probably wasn't spinning fast enough), the problem still remained. I bought a new starter/drive assembly and still it will not start. I replaced the solenoid (I was told it was bad too) and bought a new battery (I was told the one I had was not big enough so I now have one rated at 750 amps, 630 CCA). This tractor has been changed over to 12V system. It is a front mount dist, sn# *8N259604*. 

When I roll-start or pull the tractor, the engine may turn over maximum of 3 times before it fires right off. Never needs the choke. It runs fine, makes no strange sounds while running or when shutting off. PTO runs the bush-hog and my wood chipper with no problems.

So what do you think? Can the ring gear become detached from the main drive? The teeth looked to be fine. Wouldn't it make a sound if it was freewheeling when I shut it off?


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## Fordfarm

Does the starter turn the motor at all? Check to see if there is a diode between the starter and the coil. It sounds like the starter is not getting enough juice to turn the flywheel. Also - try jumping the starter directly with your car. It should just whirl. Be sure the tractor is in neutral and don't leave the wires on the starter for more then a couple seconds. This will tell you if it is your starter or a draw somewhere before the starter. There should be a diode between the coil and starter to drop the voltage down for the 6v starter. Try jumping the starter first, that will tell you where to look. If the ring gear were loose, you would know it right off, it would make loud and un-nerving sounds.


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## RitchieDon

Thanks for your response, Fordfarm. I think I may have the solution to the problem. This all started when the starter began failing to turn the motor over. The re-builder confirmed the starter was bad and was sucking way too much juice from the battery, which I found out was too small to begin with (520 amp with 390 CCA). The solenoid was broke during the rebuilding process, it was the original and had been in the weather for 50 years!.

I'm being told that there are 2 starter drives available for these tractors. One is a spring drive, which was my original, and a clutch drive. The new one I bought is the clutch and I'm thinking that now I have a rebuilt starter with the old drive, a new super battery and the right solenoid, putting the old assembly back in may work.

I will attempt this surgery tomorrow evening and will let you know the results. This is the only thing that makes sense. Like you said, a loose ring gear should be waking up the neighbors.


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## RitchieDon

Well, replacing the original assembly didn't work. I looked a little closer at the ring-gear while I had the starter drive out and found the problem. The teeth in the gear are in very good shape. No signs of wear or grinding. Same for the starter drive. What I did find is I could take my little pry-bar and turn the ring-gear but nothing turned with it. It is not really freewheeling but there is not enough resistance between it and the flywheel to turn the motor over.

What I have learned from reading the information on this site and others is that any repairs to the ring-gear requires that I get the chain saw out and cut the tractor in half. I don't have the equipment or know-how to attempt an operation of this magnitude.

Anybody have a hand crank handle for one of these and are they hard to start by hand?


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## Fordfarm

Seems there is always a crank on ebay....and they are not that hard to split! You woun't need special tools just a little know-how!


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## RitchieDon

Problem solved!! I spot welded the ring gear to the flywheel through the starter hole and it starts fine. No need to split the tractor. Hope this helps someone else & saves them some money. Like my signature says, Doing it right...


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## Live Oak

Congratulations on the creative fix. After reading this thread, it looks like this problem put you through the ringer in figuring out exactly what the culprit was. Sometimes you just gotta step back and think outside the box. Or at least in your case, inside the starter hole!  Glad things worked out. That sure beats splitting the tractor.


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## michels

While removing a 8n starter the case came off the assembly leaving the armature shaft and drive stuck in the tractor. Tried prying on the end plate to free it, but was not able to pry it out. Does anyone have a sugestion on how to remove it 
TY Steve


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## sixbales

Your starter gear may be stuck on the ring gear. Rock the tractor back and forth in the highest gear (4TH gear) to see if you can free it up. If you can move/turn the engine by rocking, it's no longer stuck .


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