# New Tractor replaces 2166



## amicks

Just came back from the Cub Dealer show in Cleveland. There are plenty of 2166 tractors available now, but for 2004 you'll see the tractor change to a LT2180 with a new 18hp Vanguard twin cylinder engine. The tractor will be called a PowerShaft LT 2180 and feature the 42" Deck. There will be however a new tractor PowerShaft LT2138 which features the 16hp Kohler with a 38" deck. Cub Cadet is launching the most new tractors in a single year I've ever seen a company launch. They will have a lineup to compete with JD's Home Depot tractors. Yes Briggs engines and lower pricing. Too early to spill all the beans now, but look out for Cub in 2004.


----------



## Sam in Ohio

What did you think of the 7000 series Cub tractor with the Caterpillar diesel in it ? It was in the "trade show" room inside the IX Center.

Also did you look at their display of cut open transmissions? Did you look at the front 4 wheel dr. axel display for the new 5000 tractor ? The tranies and drives they are building for these tractors look like they could accomadate a 50 horse engine !!!



Did you drive and mow with the 5000 series they had outside ? For $7500 retail - 27hp tractor + 60 in mower complete , there's nothing else on the market built that well for that amount !


----------



## amicks

Sam, Yes I seen the 7000 series with the CAT engine and was told it would be available sometime next year, I think it'll sell if they can keep the price competitive. I seen the cutaways and was pleased to find out that the new 5000 series four wheel drive axle is mostly made in Kentucky by their Trans division. I liked what I saw. I drove the 5000 series outside and also the BX Kubota's and I like the Cub's better. The Cub is a lot cleaner looking and a lot simplier to drive and use. I think they have a winner and I can't wait to get some down here to sell. My problem this year has been availability of product as I had to pull a trailer up and pick up a 7304 in West Virginia that we had sold. Glad you had a great time at the meeting as did I.


----------



## Deere

How much will the 2180 cost and about what time of the year will they come out?

-D


----------



## Sergeant

*replacement tractors*

Now I see the 1000 series are back are those the models they intened to market agaist the JD L series and are they keeping the 1500 series.


----------



## amicks

The 1500 series will be gone, however we puchased about 20 extra units to have for now as most other Cub Dealers probably will. I'll miss the Kawasaki engine in the 1500 series. The new models will be very close to the 1500 series with engine and transmission changes to get the price down. The prices we received were a draft so I'd rather wait and give the prices on these models at a later date as they confirm them. I will say that there are no increases as far as I can tell. The PowerShaft LT2180 will be available later in the year or the first of the year as they are getting orders now before building.


----------



## 53MGTD

*CC2186*

What will happen to the CC2186?


----------



## amicks

53MGTD, Falling prices and a more powerful 20hp engine. I was told that it's a dealer only model, we'll wait and see.


----------



## Sergeant

*1000 series Cubs*

One of the new 1000 series Cubs will be Cheaper in price than the L100 by about $100.00. and earlier this year I heard Cub owners saying that Cub would not Cheapen there standards for Box stores. Well I think they have for 2004. By the way I own 3Cubs besides MY JD.


----------



## amicks

Sergeant, MTD (owner of Cub Cadet ) has a LOVE affair with Lowes Hardware and they'll do anything to please them. Yes, I said anything. However they are adding a lot of new models this coming year and we'll have more better built Cub tractors at better prices. The new LT 1000 series is being built to compete with JD. The 1000 series tractors have the same frame, electric clutch,deck and Timken taper roller bearings in the deck.However it will have a new molded hood instead of the steel ones we've been using. The places they cut costs are using B&S ELS series engines and using a Transmission with less pistons in the pump otherwise the same trans. They cut almost all the dealer margin out to cut prices. However the Dealer will have a lot of new models that Lowes and Tractor Supply won't have and also at lower prices than what the discount stores sold them for this year. All in All the retail customer will be getting a lot of tractor for a lot less money. I think the stores like Sears will start to feel more pressure from the Cub as well as JD brand tractors going after their bussiness.


----------



## Sergeant

*Cub 1000*

That is the problem I see with JD and MTD Cub. They got in bed with the Box stores. I myself prefer to buy from a Dealer. I just think JD and Cub are taking the traditions as top quality Machines and Throwing it out the window and Hurting there dealer base. But then again in the more rural areas the dealers are not doing so Bad on sales of the L series. Like my JD/Cub dealer couldn't keep enough of them in stock. I just hope the new Cub carry on the right way and don't have problems that tranish the Cub Cadet quality any more than it is. But so far the Sabre/Scotts and L series haven't done that yet in 7 years of production for JD. I gues I'll wait and see by the end of next year.


----------



## jodyand

amicks they are doing away with the 1500's well i guess i will have a classic. They only made them for two years why do away with them i haven't heard of any real problems with them. But i guess it has to do with price i think they were a very nice LT.
Jody


----------



## amicks

Jody, Yep they are going but the LT1000 series will share almost the same parts except the hood, engine and trans. The big loss is the Kawasaki engine. According to the polls they did, they told us customers wanted three things when purchasing a new mower, Big horsepower, large decks and lower prices. Now Cub is reacting to what the market is asking for. They want to go after the market and give JD competition. I personally like the better quality tractors even though they cost a little more, though most customers want the best value. The problem lies with these box stores selling equipment and not knowing enough about the difference in the higher quality mowers to sell them, so the manufacturers are making it easy for these stores to sell more. I agree with Sergeant about the problems that come from lower price equipment, for one I hope the retail customers don't get the impression that they are getting the best tractors that money can buy. We all know that in the real world you get what you pay for, and we don't expect a $1600.00 tractor to compete with a $4600.00 tractor. We'll have to wait and see.


----------



## amicks

The replacement for the 2166, DRUMROLL:hooray: :hooray: is the LT2180 .


----------



## Deere

Ooooh... Shiny! 

Thanks for the picture!

-Deere


----------



## jodyand

*Looks*

The 2180 looks the same as the 2166 is it the same? Is all they did was just change the motor.
Jody:usa:


----------



## Sergeant

*2180*

Looks about the same. Thanks for the picture


----------



## johndeere

The 2180 should be a good seller for Cub.I always felt the single cylinder Kohler hurt the 2166.I know that is my only complaint with my 2166.Not as smooth as a twin.However very simple desighn as far as working on the engine in the future.


----------



## jodyand

> _Originally posted by johndeere _
> *The 2180 should be a good seller for Cub.I always felt the single cylinder Kohler hurt the 2166.I know that is my only complaint with my 2166.Not as smooth as a twin.However very simple desighn as far as working on the engine in the future. *


That one of the main thing people complain about the 2166 is it not having a V-Twin. Not the ones who own one the ones that don't so now it should be the best with the new motor:thumbsup:


----------



## amicks

Jody, Yes it's the same frame and deck with a new twin cylinder engine and a new marketing punch ( PowerShaft 2180 ). They are going to put PowerShaft on all tractors that feature the shaft drive. The biggest thing for 2004 is going to be lower prices. We sold 2186 tractor's two years ago for $3999.00 and this year they dropped to $3699.00 , but next year we'll sell them for $2999.00. Thats ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS off what we sold them for, not off retail prices. I will be selling them for less than what I bought them for this year. It's good and it's bad, If you bought one this year or last, your resale value has dropped considerably as well as some used Cub's I have for sale.


----------



## 53MGTD

Amicks, Will the 2186 still have the Kohler 18 hp V twin or will that be replaced with a less expensive Briggs and Stratton? With that change in price CC has had to make some compromises somewhere.


----------



## amicks

53MGTD , Same Tractor with same engine but new lower price. I can't figure it out either.


----------



## johndeere

Sounds like the value of my 1 year old 2166.Just went down the toilet also then.I gave $2699.00 that should be the price of the 2180 tops if the 2186 will be $2999.00.Power Shaft for sure sounds like we really got the shaft


----------



## amicks

johndeere, I'd sell you a new 2166 still in the crate for less than you'd probably take for your's. I don't think s'EWOL (backwards) wants to price match me now. In case you don't know, I was clintonengines on the other site ( here I can use my real ID ). :grapevine 
It's fun over here.


----------



## Sergeant

*Husqvarna*

Amicks do you sell the Husqvarna Garden tractors. I just have a question about them Does AYP produce a Belt driven PTO tiller for the Husqvarna Garden tractors or do they use the same engine driven sleeve hitch tiller that they Have on the Craftsman GT's


----------



## 53MGTD

Amick, I want to thank you for for help when I posted a question on the other site. I had purchased a CC2186 with 6 hours on it that had been returned to s'EWOL that was still not running right after their CC service people had worked on it. With your reply I was able to fix it for less than $2. The fuel line between the fuel pump and the carb had a kink in it and when heat built up under the hood after about 20 minutes of operation the fuel supply to the carb was totally shut off. Thank God I only paid $2500 for this tractor, which has been great. If I had paid the $3699 s'EWOL was getting for this unit, I'd be real upset with the new pricing structure.

With the same purchase there were issues with s'EWOL over getting the warranty registered with CC. It took 6 trips to the store and twice as many phone calls. Their people don't know what they are doing and don't care. It was a terrible experience and made the "good deal" I got on the tractor not worthwhile. I got the impression they were mad at me for negotiating the deal on the tractor they couldn't fix. I tell everyone NOT to buy equipment from s'EWOL and hope you are sucessful in burying them with the new CC lineup, even though I suspect CC did what they did for them. s'EWOL probably has enough leverage with their purchasing level to dictate what they want CC to do. s'EWOL and the other big box store likely will be the downfall of CC and JD.


----------



## johndeere

I also bought my 2166 from sewoL and it luckily worked out OK.But still wonder about the warranty.They did not send it in turned out the paper work was with my operators manual.I did get it sighned at sewoL and mailed it in my self.But have yet to here anything from Cubcadet or MTD or who ever.I did not get a stainless cup.Not that I give a damn.But would be nice to know it is covered.If I had to take it to the Cub dealer who said he would work on it if needed.He might not do any warranty work if some how the papers were filed in the trash can at main head quarters.Makes me feel Cubcadet does not recognise you if it was bought in the box store and not the dealer.

As for the value dropping on the 2166 I guess you just have to keep them and take care of them so you get your money out of them that way.There built good and should last for many years.So that should not be hard to do.

I think Cubcadet is more into sales then service and could care less about the customer.Because the customer service gives me this feeling.When prices drop and you get more features there has to be a reason. There sales are down would be my guess.If the prices drop they have to cut corners some place.

I just bought a Deere LX277 and did not even look at a Cub in its price range.I know I could have had a garden tractor and a nice one at that if I went with a Cubcadet.But I was just not sure about where there headed.The Deere future seems still on top.The L series at the other box store does not give me this uncertain feeling about Deere.If they start selling the LT series and LX then I will wonder however.

Do not get me wrong I love my 2166 and have a great respect for all Cubcadets.But it appears to me there heading for mass production rather then quality production when the prices drop.


----------



## amicks

Fact: John Deere sold more John Deere branded tractors at the BOX STORE this year than Cub Cadet branded tractors that were sold though Box Stores. I remember JD quoteing that in the 21 century they probably wouldn't need a dealer. I think HD can get anything they want for Deere if they ask. Everyone thinks this relationship with Box Stores is fine but time will tell. 
Fact: John Deere dealers get $35.00 a tractor for asembly and making sure they are ready to sell at HD. Then he gets $35.00 a tractor when he gets the warranty card from HD and calls customer and sends card to JD.
Fact: HD sells 500 tractors at the local store and dealer puts every one together and checks, he gets $35,000 from this venture. His expenses are another full time employee, another truck for this employee to go to the HD store and put together tractors, Tools , Fuel for the truck, Insurance on the truck, He is liable for lawsuits if his employee does something wrong when assembling the tractor. His phone will ring with many questions about warranty related issues and most of these sales will result in the homeowner serviceing their own tractor. I can't see how the JD dealer will continue to be profitable unless he gets the other (LX and larger tractor sales).Time will tell. As for the way I use a calculator it looks like the numbers end up in the RED.:grapevine

Sergeant: I don't stock the Husqvarna Garden Tractor's but I'll check and get back to you.


----------



## johndeere

I think there will be changes at sewoL this year.They will only carry the 1000 series Cubcadets and not the 2000 series models.I feel this is why they came out with a larger line of 1000 series tractors.I look for the 2000 series models and above to be dealer only models.

Just like the L and G series at the other box store is all they get.The differance between the Deere and Cub are easy to see.If you walk into get the Deere box store tractor it is serviced and ready to go deck leveled and all.Plus it has the servicing dealer tag on the tractor.So you know who to contact.However the Cubcadet box store tractors are sitting there not serviced and ready to go.You have to level the deck and it you need service from a servicing dealer.Your on your own to find one that will be willing to help you out.Sure you can bring it back to the store and they will send it in for you.But this is a bad way of doing business.It is a gamble that so far I have luckily did OK on.Maybe im to fussy.But there is no way I would take my 2166 to the store to be picked up and taken to who knows where and worked on by who knows who.I would forget the warranty and pay out of my pocket before doing this.

The Deere box store deal is a better arangment.I knew this at the time I went with the 2166.However the L series just is not even close to comparing to the qualitry of the 2166.That is why I was forced into sewoL.If I wanted a box store tractor.

If they would only allow the 1000 series in the box store I think it would be better for everyone both dealers and consumers.Because it would take the pressure off the dealers and help keep the trade values up on the 2000 series line.Seems to be working for Deere anyway.Then make it worth while for the Cub dealers to service these 1000 series tractors that come from the box store.But it appears to me Cub just does not take care of there dealers like they should.They should wake up before it is to late for them.


----------



## 53MGTD

I agree. LOWE's is a terrible place to buy a tractor from. To anyone who reads this forum---DON'T DO IT.


----------

