# What is the Best Oil for Your tractor?



## Scott22 (Jul 4, 2021)

I have been reading articles since early tractor. Something that always starts an argument is what is the best tractor oil to use: synthetic or dino. Any opinion on that, ?


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

So what sort of argument did you want to start? I guess price would be one consideration. What store do you buy your oil from?


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

No argument with me. I follow the recommended in the owners manual API specification for oil and buy the brand that meets that requirement based on price. To me, oil is like mouthwash. All basically the same so long as it meets or exceeds the API specification the builders want to have used.

Everyone has their favorite, I do too. It all hinges on proper specification.

I see oil threads go on for pages and I tend to ignore them.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

SidecarFlip said:


> No argument with me. I follow the recommended in the owners manual API specification for oil and buy the brand that meets that requirement based on price. To me, oil is like mouthwash. All basically the same so long as it meets or exceeds the API specification the builders want to have used.
> 
> Everyone has their favorite, I do too. It all hinges on proper specification.
> 
> I see oil threads go on for pages and I tend to ignore them.


Ditto.

That is why there is a forum for Bob Is The Oil Guy. Best to keep those topics there. LOL


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

bmaverick said:


> Ditto.
> 
> That is why there is a forum for Bob Is The Oil Guy. Best to keep those topics there. LOL


You always have forums like TbyNET with it's perpetual oil threads too. Pages and pages of nonsense. I ignore them as well.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

pogobill said:


> So what sort of argument did you want to start? I guess price would be one consideration. What store do you buy your oil from?


1st post and he goes straight to oil....... Might as well have started with "The metric system is a communist plot"


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

bmaverick said:


> Ditto.
> 
> That is why there is a forum for Bob Is The Oil Guy. Best to keep those topics there. LOL


Never go there either... I'd say 'oil threads' are on par with political discussions. No 2 opinions are alike and contradictions abound. One thing about oil and that is, it gets dirty and I change it (and the filter) (filters seem to be another opinionated discussion). The used oil goes in my Klean Burn and the new oil begins it's life...rinse and repeat.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

SidecarFlip said:


> Never go there either... I'd say 'oil threads' are on par with political discussions. No 2 opinions are alike and contradictions abound. One thing about oil and that is, it gets dirty and I change it (and the filter) (filters seem to be another opinionated discussion). The used oil goes in my Klean Burn and the new oil begins it's life...rinse and repeat.


My used oil is filtered and is used as bar-chain oil.  Why go and buy bar-chain oil ???


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

That works, I guess. Bar oil is much more tacky than used motor oil and it's cheap. I get a gallon at Menards for 10 bucks on sale. I've heard pro and con about using used motor oil so I err on the side of buying it. I do use used motor as an accelerant for lighting my burn piles though. How do you filter it anyway?


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Scott22 said:


> I have been reading articles since early tractor. Something that always starts an argument is what is the best tractor oil to use: synthetic or dino. Any opinion on that, ?


In the trucking industry, when CF-4 (1991 emissions) was the standard for diesel engine oil, the average fleet drain interval was 12,000 miles. With FA-4 (2017 emissions), both PACCAR (MX-13) and DDE (DD-15) are suggesting oil change intervals of 75,000 miles.

To understand diesel engine oil performance, you have to be familiar with TBN (total base number) and TAN (total acid number). To understand oil filter performance, you have to be familiar with "Beta ratings" and acceptable PPM limits for various metals and silicon. To come to a data-based conclusion of the combination that gives the best performance, you have to spend a boatload of $$$ and take 1,000s oil analysis samples.

To understand what your reading in those 1,000s of oil analysis reports, this will help....
https://www.rsareliability.com/Oil Analysis Tables.pdf

Let us know what you figure out


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Nice chart Bob. Think I'll stick with what I do which is change my lube oil every fall and gearbox oil every 3 years. I do a spectroscopic analysis (Blackstone Labs) when I change out and I do use synthetic in both instances (5-40 T6 in the crankcases and Chevron THC All Weather Synthetic in the gearboxes.

Been working out peachy and my Blackstone analysis comes back with a reasonable TBN number and normal metals content. 4 and 6K meter hours on the tractors. In fact Blackstone tells me I could increase my change intervals but I won't. Oil is the cheapest consumable I use.

My philosophy is, oil is a heck of a lot cheaper than an engine or transmission rebuild.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

SidecarFlip said:


> Nice chart Bob. Think I'll stick with what I do which is change my lube oil every fall and gearbox oil every 3 years. I do a spectroscopic analysis (Blackstone Labs) when I change out and I do use synthetic in both instances (5-40 T6 in the crankcases and Chevron THC All Weather Synthetic in the gearboxes.
> 
> Been working out peachy and my Blackstone analysis comes back with a reasonable TBN number and normal metals content. 4 and 6K meter hours on the tractors. In fact Blackstone tells me I could increase my change intervals but I won't. Oil is the cheapest consumable I use.
> 
> My philosophy is, oil is a heck of a lot cheaper than an engine or transmission rebuild.


It's one thing on your own equipment, it's a whole different ball game on a fleet of 1,000 power units. Oil analysis is a great tool, but it's expensive for the options it gives you and you're probably not going to like those options anyway. 

A couple of oil reports come back on a 500,000 mile engine with 100 PPM chrome (rings).... What do you do? Rebuild it, trade in, scheduled replacement is still two years away, and rings aren't covered under extended warranty. Asset is still on the books for $50K and the trade-in value is $35K. Glycol or fuel dilution at 200K.... Hello warranty claim

Damn I'm happy to be retired.......... What's for supper, or do I cut the grass before it rains tomorrow, are a lot easier decisions.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

The outfit I retired from had 55 tractors, all with big Cats and the head of fleet maintenance always did oil analysis on every change (used CAT) but I think it was more about coolant dilution than anything else. 3406's and C15 were noted for oil dilution from compromised head gaskets.... and they were all cranked up too.

I still own a 3406 in an Eagle conventional, but it's an A model and it's not turned up. Only 375 horse and 1400 pounds feet torque.

Have no idea about the change interval. All I know is the bulk tanks for the oil furnaces were always full.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Never was fond of CAT engines...... Fuel suckers and parts were always expensive. 3406s weren't all that bad, but that C15 ACERT engine was a maintenance nightmare. $10,000 worth of constantly failing turbos on an engine that got 5.5 MPG with a tailwind..... The standing joke was the only really good fuel economy you could expect out of a C15 was when it was on the back of a wrecker.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Accerts had more issues that just the compound turbo's They liked to eat spacer plates and snap exhaust manifold studs. Driving a big truck, mileage don't even enter into the equation, I drove a Michigan steel truck, 11 axles 3 on the tractor and 8 on the trailer and almost always was grossed out at 163,000 pounds. Never checked the mileage on my 3406, don't go anywhere except to the river hauling grain.

I was a company driver so had no choice in what I drove but I did get a new Western Star long nose conventional with a double bunk every 2 years. Guy who owned the outfit always spec'd them in OO specs. Big cats, 13 double overs, air ride front and rear, last one I had even had an APU and a fridge in the sleeper. never used the sleeper except for my jacket, was home every night or it was parked in the side yard.

Every time I got a new truck (got a new trailer too), first thing I looked at was the speedometer. Always a 100 mph clock. the 80 mph clocks mean the truck is geared for 80. a 100 mph clock meant it's capable of triple digits. Could do that on the door pillar sticker but the speedo was easier. Not that I went that fast. I never got a speeding ticket and never got a DOT citation either. Our trucks were always rumored to be the best far as care went so never was inspected. got a couple overweight tickets though (when I wasn't going around the scales..). Hard to load an 8 axle trailer and get 13 on each axle when all but 3 lifts are on springs. probably should say mis load, not overload.

Did have one with a Detroit DDEC. It was gutless. Detroit's don't have the torque rise a big Cat has. 500 horse wenie motor. Only motor I ever seen that 10 minutes after an oil change, the oil is pitch black. Easier to work on with the overhead mounted camshaft unlike a Cat where you have to pull the derby cover to get to the cam.

Nothing beats the sound of a Cat. Nothing. Why I like the Kubota's, they sound like a Cat, well same pump basically.

Cat parts are now insanely expensive because they are all aftermarket.

Best job I ever had. Great retirement, great healthcare, great management and fantastic trucks. I live very comfortably. best part is, my boss and I are good friends to this day. Just had dinner with him and his wife last week and I hunt with his number 2 in command.

All from answering an ad in the paper.

if I could do it again, I probably wouldn't. I don't miss it, especially the idiots on the road.

Guy down the road has a 1693 in a Freightliner. The 1693 was built as a railroad engine. Heavy but very powerful and they really make that beautiful 'Clatterpillar' sound.

Haven't changed the oil in my Eagle in 3 years. Don't get used much, maybe 1000 miles a year at most.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

He actually had a waiting list for the trucks when they came out of the fleet. Most every one was painted red and white. White base color with red accents. if you see a red and white Star, probably looking at one of the Ex fleet trucks. Heck, I even saw one in New Mexico one time. Rest assured, if it wasn't remaned, it has a big Cat under the hood.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

_"Driving a big truck, mileage don't even enter into the equation"...... _

That's the benefit of being a driver. Fuel economy is a make, or break issue when you're operating at $1.80 per mile and 4% annual net like most line-haul trucking companies. Average fleet operating cost for fuel was $.54 per mile last week. Idle time is the big killer. $250K -$300K fuel bill, per DAY, is what an average 1,000 unit line-haul fleet is seeing right now. 

Fuel was up $.80 a gallon in May compared to May of 2020.... That'll take a bite out of your projected H1 earnings/share price if you're a publicly traded trucking company. Thank God the load ratio is 4.5 right now, so back haul rates are good. Still going to be a wave of Chapter 11 filings by the end of the year.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Actually Bob, 

None of your figures applied to us... Different animal...
I the outfit I drove for was a wholly owned subsidiary of the parent company and we weren't a 'common carrier'. We had no published rates, every freight charge was in agreement with the parent company. We all had a point to point freight charge book and the average freight rate was over 3 bucks a mile. Of course we never ran on a per mile rate, it was all hundred weight rates. Per mile rates work for box freight companies, they don't work for hauling iron. Why, when I could, I'd load the wagon. The more I hauled, the more I got paid and the more the division got in revenue.

Fuel cost never entered into the equation, ever. Neither did maintenance costs as that department was staffed with company employees either on salary or hourly. Whatever I wrote up on my inspection report was address that night and then the unit was washed and parked. Had our own wash crew too.

In fact, the company fuel tanks were always filled with premium diesel. They had 2, 10,000 gallon in ground tanks and we all had keys to the pumps so we used it as required.

Lets just say I averaged 70 grand a year with full benefits, 4 weeks paid vacation (and if you didn't use all of it, they paid you at the 'day rate') which was 250 bucks a day. Some years I made a lot more but 70 is a good average.

Much different with a private, not for hire carrier than a for hire common carrier. I'd never consider driving a truck for less than 2 bucks a mile to me.

Like I said previously, best driving job I ever had. Always got profit sharing and a ham at Christmas and a Turkey on Turkey day too.

Needless to say, there was no employee turnover and there was always a waiting list for new hires. Only time seniority advanced was when someone retired.

I started out at the bottom and in 28 years, only advanced to about the middle of the list.

28 x 70 is over a million nine in wages. Not bad for a truck driver, I'd say. Probably why I get so much on SS too.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Thanks for sharing that, it explains a lot


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

All good things come to an end however. The job don't exist now. Company divested itself of the transportation division, sold off all the assets, trucks, trailers and 2 dealerships and laid off the employees except the drivers who were offered a job with a 'common carrier'... I was long gone before that went down. I retired the same day as my general manager retired, he knew what the deal was ahead of time and told me to 'get out' which is exactly what I did. I fondly remember that day like it was yesterday. Walked into the HR office with a plastic bag with all my uniforms in it and a bag containing the company credit cards and keys and phone (we all had company cell phones), plopped it all on the head of HR's desk and told him he was fired. Told him when you fire a person you don't give any notice and I'm not giving you any. Cash me out. I'm done right now. Sure felt good too.

Took a little time to cash out as I had to transfer a wad of money from their retirement to my private one, about 6 months.,

I have no contact with any of them except my retired general manager and the second in command, who I hunt with. Was a great job but nothing is forever. Was 15 years ago.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

You have a rare story.... I went to dozens of guys retirement parties that put in 30 years behind a wheel, or on a shop floor, and retired to what they thought was a secure future in their old age. They aren't nearly as fortunate. Problem is the Central States Teamster Fund. $10 billion in assets, $40 billion in unfunded liabilities, and the worst is yet to come. They put in their 30 years as a Teamster, currently getting around $3,000 monthly check, and can expect a possible 60 percent cut by the end 2024. They did everything right, went to work everyday, paid their dues and now what are they supposed to do, die early???...... It's a damn shame and is about to become a tragedy of epic proportion for about 350,000 of our fellow hard working old guys that made the trucking industry what it is today.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

First off, we were non union. The people that owned the company figured out that to stay non union in a union dominated town, they had to pay better and have better benefits than the union shops. Kind of the unwritten rule, you never even thought about a union but then you didn't have to. Smart management. In fact, I still remember the president of the company saying at a company picnic, they put on a catered bash every 4th and you got a bonus amount for every year between the 4th and present.. he said to all the employees "When you retire, you will all be millionaires". he didn't lie. he was filthy rich but he was also a good businessman and he appreciated the people that made him rich. In a union shop, that don't play.

Interestingly, the outfit I drove for before my 'golden job' was a teamsters place. Stayed 4 years and when the job I retired from came up, I was gone in a flash. Got to pay union dues for 4 years, basically pissed it away for nothing.

I had (he's deceased) friend who drove for and retired from Roadway Express, like 35 years and got royally screwed, so I've witnessed it first hand. The union bosses live large on the backs of the rank and file. Fancy cars, fast women, gambling, boozers, you name it. They were cutting his pension every year with the excuse they didn't have the money to pay the pension benefits. I know where it went.

Don't know where you are at but if you drove for Roadway, I bet you either knew him or heard of him, he was known throughout the system. That would be a PM of course, no names on here, one has to protect the innocent to quote the 'Dragnet' show...

I consider myself extremely lucky far as a career was concerned. Being at the right place at the right time is everything I guess. Too bad my health isn't good, I'm a survivor. I deal with hell every day but being a survivor, I persist. Why I own 2 tractors. Hard for me to keep switching heavy tongued implements and I have my forage business distilled down to a one man show. I do everything. I cut it, ted it (if necessary), rake it and bale it and load it on my customer's semi's. I do get help once in a while but most times I don't. I fertilize it too and spray it if necessary.

My wife almost killed me when I bought the second one but now she understands. Glad of that. Happy wife is a happy life.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Time to get back to that wonderful elixir called motor oil....lol


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