# Why ever leave 4x4 mode?



## pioneerMan (11 mo ago)

If I'm always going to be driving on dirt, would there ever be a need to not engage 4x4 traction?

Thank you.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

Rule of thumb for 4WD use is, only use it when needed. Less chances of things breaking.


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## BinVa (Sep 21, 2020)

Welcome to the forum...
4whl drive should only be necessary when traction is limited. Tho a functional design built into the tractor it should be used(when needed)considering you are putting unnecessary wear on driveline/steering components and tires if conditions do not warrant use. B.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

And here is a different viewpoint, depending on what you are doing and desiring from your tractor it will not hurt it to run 4wd all the time on soft surfaces.
Will it wear parts faster, depends on the parts.
The front differential will be powered and loaded the front axle drives will be being used. Will you wear them out most likely not.
Most tractors do not turn as short while in 4wd.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

LouNY said:


> Most tractors do not turn as short while in 4wd



Unless it has bi-speed turn. My issue with FWA even on dirt is accelerated tire wear. Considering how expensive new shoes are today, I think I'd consider that aspect seriously.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

Tire wear is a concern if you put several hundred or thousand of hours on per year.
Many of these posters don't put but around a 100 hours a year on, they would never wear out a tire.
Depending on what I am doing some fields I'll mow with 4wd engaged that 10 ft discbine is heavy pulling at times.
The same ting chopping or baling depending on the field often in 4wd. Hauling road bales on the 10 bale wagon 
it depends on the field. The nice thing with the electric engaging ones is it's so easy to flip the switch whenever wanted.
Steep hills soft fields I'll be in 4wd so as not to tear up hay fields. Tillage I'll be in 4wd for traction and to reduce tire wear.
Up and down steep grades I'll always be in 4wd going down to stop the slippage on the rears up to prevent the chewing
that is rough on tires and roadways


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## BinVa (Sep 21, 2020)

Lou... you're on the money... I just don't agree with the OP's blanket statement of engage the 4wd and forget it. There's a place for it. I use it much the same as you. B.


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

I had to do a quick mental count,,,, I own 9 motorized 4wd vehicles. I don't leave any of them in 4wd. Everyone of my 9 will "push" when making a hard turn in 4wd. I see no reason to add that stress to the powertrains.

I've only saw one tractor that doesn't "pull" while moving in a straight line with 4wd engaged. And I contribute that to the front tires being almost worn out and the rears new.

For clarity. In regards to forward movement of the tractor with 4wd engaged.

"Push" means the front tires are wanting to travel less ground distance than the rear tires. So they are being "pushed". 

"Pull" means the front tires are wanting to travel farther ground distance than the rear tires. So they are "pulling" the tractor forward.

Both of these situations add stress to the powertrain. And that is why the operator's manual will have warning statements about when and when not 4wd should be used.

Friend of mine bought a used 100HP JD FWA tractor. First he'd ever owned. The 4wd indicator light didn't work. So he assumed it could be operated in 4wd all the time. Six months after purchasing the tractor the front differential went out. He was very embarrassed when the shop told him why. Needless to say, while the shop was rebuilding the front differential they also fixed the 4wd light.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

The CIH Magnums (3) the PUMA 125 and the NH 6050 on the farm are approaching 6000-9000 hours and I would say They are run in 4wd 70-80% of the time.
Yes, most tractors will have some pull or lead built in.
I'll admit it has been many years since I looked at the owners manual for those tractors.
So I looked my Branson 8050 up;
2WD : Rear wheel drive high range - this is for driving on
dry hard surfaces.
4WD AUTO : 4WD Auto range - This is automatically disengaged
when either brake pedal is pressed or if speed
exceeds 9.3mph (15km/h)
4WD : Four-wheel drive - This range provides full time four wheel drive

I'll stand by my statement that to the OP if always on dirt it should not hurt it, unless he is on rock hard dirt it should hurt.
Once he gets more comfortable he may start changing modes more often.
If that Deere was infields most of the time it should not have taken out the front differential, if he was roading the tractor yes.



pioneerMan said:


> If I'm always going to be driving on dirt, would there ever be a need to not engage 4x4 traction?


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

I use this as a measure. Would I drive my 4wd truck with it engaged as long as I didn't get on pavement?

Here's another personal interpretation. What color is your 4wd light?

I won't even turn and back my tractors into the machine shed with them in 4wd. 

Jim never drives his tractor on pavement. Occasional gravel road. 

It's over my pay grade to claim damage will occur or claim damage will not occur. I'm basing my statements on the mechanical design of 4wd and the stresses involved.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

4wd is really a misnomer unless you have front and rear differentials locked. It's really one front and one rear driving. I have to say I don't believe I've locked mine (I can lock both ends if I want) more than 3 times in all the time I've owned them.

My pickup truck has lockers front and rear, front is an ARB selective air locker, rear is a Detroit Tru-Track. I rarely lock the front dif on it either. Like the tractors in full lock, you don't ever attempt to go anywhere but straight. The imposed stress would quickly break something.

Rarely use FWA on my tractors because I'm not doing tillage. Could have gotten away with just rear wheel drive but when I bought them FWA seemed like a worthwhile added investment and I know that a used FWA tractor brings appreciably more than a like 2wd unit.

Having said that, I still believe tire wear is accelerated whether the front drive is engaged or just freewheeling.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

pioneerMan said:


> If I'm always going to be driving on dirt, would there ever be a need to not engage 4x4 traction?
> 
> Thank you.


If you are forever spinning your tires in two wheel drive, then put it in 4.


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

pioneerMan said:


> If I'm always going to be driving on dirt, would there ever be a need to not engage 4x4 traction?
> 
> Thank you.



The only other thing to look at is every so often, probably at least once a month, you need to shift it out of 4 wheel drive and into to 2 wheel drive to exercise the linkage and stuff..... Several posts on here and I have seen it several times myself that a tractor will get stuck in 4 wheel drive if it is left this way for long periods of time......It can be a bear and take some work to get them out of 4 wheel drive......

Just another angle on this question.....


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

ovrszd said:


> I use this as a measure. Would I drive my 4wd truck with it engaged as long as I didn't get on pavement?
> 
> Here's another personal interpretation. What color is your 4wd light?
> 
> ...


Curious about something Richard.... When running the road grader, is it in front wheel assist all the time or do you disengage the front wheels when not required or can you?


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

SidecarFlip said:


> Curious about something Richard.... When running the road grader, is it in front wheel assist all the time or do you disengage the front wheels when not required or can you?


It's a hydraulic system like AWD on a combine for example. 

I have a switch for off/on. "On" causes a little picture of a grader (white) to come on and engages the front wheel hydraulic motors. One on each wheel.

Then I have a "progression" knob. Set at zero % the fronts run the exact same speed as the rears. Can turn it negatively 20% or positively 40%. 

When pushing snow I leave it on all the time and set on 0%. Cleaning ditches or cutting bank slopes I may increase the percentage a little to keep the front where I want it. Normal road maintenance I rarely use it.


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## TX MX5200 (May 12, 2020)

In my option it all depends on terrain and the need for AWD in the machine you are operating. In the hill country we are either going up, down or sideways all the time in loose rocks or dirt. On the tractor we leave it in AWD to prevent wheel slippage for both safety and tire protection as spinning on the sharp rocks chews up tires quick.

On the UTVs we leave in 1 wheel drive and progress up thru rear 2wd to 4wd depending on needs. On these 4wd does mean all 4 are spinning.

On my truck, I never select AWD and use 4Hi or 4Lo only when wheels are slipping. I think your best measure is if in loose or slippery situations then use it…if not needed then go with 2wd (which is really 1wd unless rear diff locked which should be rare)


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

TX MX5200 said:


> In my option it all depends on terrain and the need for AWD in the machine you are operating. In the hill country we are either going up, down or sideways all the time in loose rocks or dirt. On the tractor we leave it in AWD to prevent wheel slippage for both safety and tire protection as spinning on the sharp rocks chews up tires quick.
> 
> On the UTVs we leave in 1 wheel drive and progress up thru rear 2wd to 4wd depending on needs. On these 4wd does mean all 4 are spinning.
> 
> On my truck, I never select AWD and use 4Hi or 4Lo only when wheels are slipping. I think your best measure is if in loose or slippery situations then use it…if not needed then go with 2wd (which is really 1wd unless rear diff locked which should be rare)


This is always a difficult conversation to have with online friends. None of us know the other's driving abilities. So pretty hard to tell them when to use 4wd. Your various situations and descriptions in this post prove that. 

I have nine 4wd vehicles. They each require different driver input to maximize their usefullness.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

ovrszd said:


> I have nine 4wd vehicles. They each require different driver input to maximize their usefullness.


As well as operational longevity... Running in front wheel assist constantly places an inordinate amount of strain and wear on parts and assemblies that are really meant to not run full time.

Like my 350 Ford. Has lockout hubs for a reason or my Kubota's, they have engagement levers for front wheel assist for a reason. If a vehicle or tractor was designed to run in all wheel drive (like some are), there would be no option to engage or disengage it....

and, it's more fuel efficient to run in 2 wheel than 4 wheel anyway and at the current price of fuel, to me that is an important consideration.

I rarely use the 4wd option on my truck and my wife's new Suburban also has the 2wd -4wd or 4wd on demand options. It's in 2wd all the time. Same applies to my tractors. I might have used FWA once or twice since I purchased them way back when. Nice to have if needed, but my 'needs' are infrequent.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

I NEVER drive drunk. I don't consume alcohol. Drunk driving is the number one killer in this country. Far surpasses Covid deaths.


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

SidecarFlip said:


> I NEVER drive drunk. I don't consume alcohol. Drunk driving is the number one killer in this country. Far surpasses Covid deaths.


Actually Heart Disease is the #1 killer in this country at just under 700K per year. Drunk driving is so far down the list I couldn't even find it. It's not in the top 20.

I'll go out on a limb and say more people die from distracted driving than by drunk driving. Probably by 3 times.

Not in any manner condoning drunk driving.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

I've seen a lot of situations where deciding on 4WD use is a lot like calling the Cops..... By the time the situation deteriorates to the point where you really need it/them, it's to late for an easy out. You then realize you should have made that decision 10 minutes ago, but your ego got in the way...... Now you need some help, a good pair of mud boots, and a really big-ass chain. The only plus to that situation, over the other, is that it's much easier to explain to someone on a cell phone as to how you got to that point rather than needing the entire SWAT team with tear gas, fully automatic weapons, and a hostage negotiator


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Around here it's the number one killer but comes under the title of 'distracted driving' and that encompasses anything while driving anyway.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

CLOGGED TOILET of poop! said:


> Drunk driving is absolutely the worst thing you can do I actually know some people. I absolutely 100% agree with you not acceptable absolutely not I’m a tell you something the people that drink drive and get caught are lucky they didn’t kill somebody else because let me tell you something. Most drunk drivers don’t get killed an accident what do they kill? they kill the people that they hit. How selfish can you be to get in a car like that and automobile every day and drive a car can you believe it that people actually do this every single day they they just don’t care. But then they have the ba**s to walk around asking where the lawyer is so they can get get bailed out. Absolutely disgusting.


But yet 18 States (and climbing), have legalized recreational pot use and Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, and Michigan have drive-through liquor stores. Makes about as much sense as the government requiring drive-through ATM's and self-serve gas pumps have braille on the entry buttons.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

The legalized pot here locally, has already increased not only motor vehicle accidents but break in's as well. I'm quite happy the local weed outlet is on the exact opposite end of the township as we are because the crime increase has been mostly confined to over there as well as the motor vehicle accidents.

Stuff grows wild in the ditch banks here along with Asparagus which I pick. I leave the cannabis alone.


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

SidecarFlip said:


> Stuff grows wild in the ditch banks here along with Asparagus which I pick. I leave the cannabis alone.


Ditch weed won't hold a candle to the specialized varieties sold in stores. Replying for a friend.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Not going there.... One thing is certain, it all goes up in smoke.


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

SidecarFlip said:


> Not going there.... One thing is certain, it all goes up in smoke.


My Sister-In-Law and her man own the oldest Pharmacy and growing operation in Colorado Springs. It's a highly technical growing process. He has developed many strains for various results. I call him a Mad Scientist. Each plant has a registration number. All of it's daily life is recorded as well as production. They are 40 something year old multi millionaires.


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## TX MX5200 (May 12, 2020)

Why are we getting into 1970s Woodstock….sorry but there’s no give there for me. Crazy to think of lives taken over it and now it’s legal in Libby states in name of tax revenue.

As my ole grand dad used to say….THE HELL YA SAY…and….SHIT FIRE AND SAVE THE MATCHES


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

TheHonkingWillContinue said:


> If you’re in 2wd and get stuck, you can use 4wd to get unstuck.
> If you’re in 4wd and get stuck…


I've heard that statement before I just look at those and shake my head


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

TX MX5200 said:


> Why are we getting into 1970s Woodstock….sorry but there’s no give there for me. Crazy to think of lives taken over it and now it’s legal in Libby states in name of tax revenue.
> 
> As my ole grand dad used to say….THE HELL YA SAY…and….SHIT FIRE AND SAVE THE MATCHES


Legalize and tax it. No different than alcohol.


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

LouNY said:


> I've heard that statement before I just look at those and shake my head


Again, depends on the driver and their understanding/abilities, both of which we know nothing about.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

LouNY said:


> I've heard that statement before I just look at those and shake my head


I'm with you Lou.... I was taught to use whatever you have available to NOT get stuck in the first place


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

I'm staying out of this one. I have very definite views and opinions on reefer as well as alcohol, not of which none of you want to hear.


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

SidecarFlip said:


> I'm staying out of this one. I have very definite views and opinions on reefer as well as alcohol, not of which none of you want to hear.


We always want to hear what you have to say Daryl.

Without spending an hour researching, I'll contend that there are more injuries and deaths caused by prescription drugs than weed and alcohol.


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

TheHonkingWillContinue said:


> When you’re on seven medicines to control the side effects of the first two medicines, but still trust the science…


My SIL told me awhile back she is on 24 prescriptions. I haven't taken 24 prescriptions in my lifetime.


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## TX MX5200 (May 12, 2020)

ovrszd said:


> We always want to hear what you have to say Daryl.
> 
> Without spending an hour researching, I'll contend that there are more injuries and deaths caused by prescription drugs than weed and alcohol.


not wanting to get into a political debate, but until you see dead teenagers with that distinctive froth at the mouth due to fentanyl laced marijuana ingestion, you haven’t seen the whole forest….or…..until ya get the opportunity get shot in the face by a harmless marijuana dealer do ya have a full understanding.

So legalize marijuana because it’s a naturally grown product…then go ahead and legalize cocaine and heroine because they are also.

each are entitled to opinions, but mine is there has to be a line in the sand over which you do not cross. If medicinal use…get a prescription for it.


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## TX MX5200 (May 12, 2020)

ovrszd said:


> We always want to hear what you have to say Daryl.
> 
> Without spending an hour researching, I'll contend that there are more injuries and deaths caused by prescription drugs than weed and alcohol.


Im betting there’s more injuries caused my machines than all the above combined…also think machines and prescription drugs shouldn’t be illegal.


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## TX MX5200 (May 12, 2020)

Regardless of what you smoke, snort or inject I’m thinking that ya don’t want to use 4wd unless ya anticipate the need for it


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

TX MX5200 said:


> not wanting to get into a political debate, but until you see dead teenagers with that distinctive froth at the mouth due to fentanyl laced marijuana ingestion, you haven’t seen the whole forest….or…..until ya get the opportunity get shot in the face by a harmless marijuana dealer do ya have a full understanding.
> 
> So legalize marijuana because it’s a naturally grown product…then go ahead and legalize cocaine and heroine because they are also.
> 
> each are entitled to opinions, but mine is there has to be a line in the sand over which you do not cross. If medicinal use…get a prescription for it.


So your line in the sand is legalized MJ? And the distinctive froth at the mouth is worse because of MJ than Fentanyl? Lastly, getting shot in the face by a harmless MJ dealer is an oxymoron.


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

TX MX5200 said:


> Im betting there’s more injuries caused my machines than all the above combined…also think machines and prescription drugs shouldn’t be illegal.


I don't think those two should be illegal either.

As with almost everything, prescription drugs are prevalent because of Big Pharma kick backs to MDs.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

In my view, running in FWA all the time is counter productive. It increases tire wear, adversely impacts turn radius (unless it's a bi-speed turn axle) and places undue wear and strain on components. You don't 'throw' my tractors into FWA, you do it carefully. All I have to do is observe the tire lugs and ruts to determine if FWA is prudent. Most times it's not.


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## TX MX5200 (May 12, 2020)

I never run the tractor in AWD and will never do it. Of course mine is 2WD. The one time I got stuck in my yanmar 2wd I just used the FEL to walk me out of the bog. 

Really don’t think it’s rocket science….I watch where I’m driving and if in buggy or truck and see a need, then I go to 4wd….steep inclines or declines, muddy areas or slippery conditions such as moldy boat ramps. If I’m in 2wd vehicle then I don’t drive thru those areas. Not being ugly, but life isn’t as hard as we seem to make it out to be.


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## TX MX5200 (May 12, 2020)

ovrszd said:


> So your line in the sand is legalized MJ? And the distinctive froth at the mouth is worse because of MJ than Fentanyl? Lastly, getting shot in the face by a harmless MJ dealer is an oxymoron.


Nope….line in the sand is dope is dope. Here marijuana is illegal and I agree that it should be. It does has medicinal use and if needed for that purpose then it’s legal with prescription….same with fentanyl, it’s legal if prescribed and with medical purpose….same with morphine.

There are those who view marijuana dealers as harmless, which is BS.


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

TX MX5200 said:


> There are those who view marijuana dealers as harmless, which is BS.


Kinda like livestock confinement setups. They are fine as long as they aren't in my backyard. 

1000 times more people will die this year from Nicotine use than THC.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

TX MX5200 said:


> I never run the tractor in AWD and will never do it. Of course mine is 2WD. The one time I got stuck in my yanmar 2wd I just used the FEL to walk me out of the bog.
> 
> Really don’t think it’s rocket science….I watch where I’m driving and if in buggy or truck and see a need, then I go to 4wd….steep inclines or declines, muddy areas or slippery conditions such as moldy boat ramps. If I’m in 2wd vehicle then I don’t drive thru those areas. Not being ugly, but life isn’t as hard as we seem to make it out to be.


Actually, I do the same. Isn't the bucket supposed to be used for removing you from a sticky situation? The only time I use front wheel assist is when pulling something and I gert wheel slip. Don't believe I've ever locked the differentials (I can lock both the rear and the front for true 4 wheel drive. In reality with open diffs in a tractor, you only have 2 wheel drive anyway. One wheel in the back and one in the front. In my view, the term 4wd or AWD isn't correct no matter if it's a awd car or pickup truck or tractor. All 2wd unless they have locking diffs. Power is always transmitted to the wheel that has the least resistance, not the wheel that has the most.

Only reason I have FWA tractors is because I'm not sure why except it 'appeared' to be a good idea when I bought them and the resale is better as well.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Had a friend with a 1964 GMC Suburban, rear whek drive ( an ambulance in it's early days) and it had posi-traction. Chained up, that thing would go pretty much anywhere a 4 x 4 would go! 
My land is fairly flat, although rugged in the back 60. I use Front wheel assist most of the time because most of my work with it involves the front end loader. Also use the diff lock I I start to spin picking up sand or gravel, for instance. This past summer is one of the first times I did not used the front wheel assist much at all. This year I see lots of digging and clearing again.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Most vehicles, unless you order limited slip will come with an open diff. My pickup truck has an ARB air locker in the front and a Detroit Tru-Track in the back and it will go about anywhere too. I rarely use the ARB except when getting into out up north property as it's only access is a seasonal road with a water crossing and it's hilly.

I like the ARB because it's selectable. full open or locked. The Tru-Track isn't. and you can 'feel' it on dry pavement. It came with open front and rear, well the back was limited slip which I'm not overly impressed with. Limited slip is a clutch pack whereas a Tru-Track is 100% mechanical. Has manual locking front hubs too. I can completely disengage the front end and not constantly turn components in the front end.


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## macdoesit (May 4, 2021)

My manual only indicates not to use 4x4 on street at faster speed. I only engage when needed.


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## TX MX5200 (May 12, 2020)

Only thing I have that’s true 4x4 is my Bobcat UTV….I can select 1wd, 2wd and 4wd…I’ve test it by raising it and running in 4wd and all four are spinning. Got to be carful as it has tractor style lug tires (with Kevlar) and they will chew up the grass if you are turning.

My truck says 4wd but it’s a lie….it has limited slip in rear only so if slipping at most is 3wd….but works fine for my use. I’ve had others tell me 2wd is all that’s needed, but they never leave pavement nor have they been to a boat ramp. My old trucks had the manual lockers with solid axle front just like the rear.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

I cannot afford a new truck myself. Prices on new ones have become insane.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

If you go back to the original terminology; such as 4x2, 4x4, 6x2,6x4,and 6x6.
The second number refereed to the number of powered axles a 4 x 2 being 4 axled vehicle with 2 powered axles,
ie, a 2wd truck, the 4 x 4 being a 4 axled vehicle with all 4 powered and so on.

To say that your 4wd is only a 2 or 3 wheel drive is completely inaccurate a 4wd pickup in 4wd is delivering power to all
4 wheels, you can be stuck with 2 tires spinning but all 4 wheels have the same amount of torque being applied to them.
The tires may not be getting the traction needed to move the vehicle but they are all powered.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Have to take issue with that Lou. With open differentials, the power is directed to the wheel/tire assembly with the LEAST traction. Why a limited slip or locking differential is a viable option for adverse conditions, consequently, with open differentials a 4 wheel drive is really a 2 wheel drive, one wheel in front and one in the back. Easy to prove as well. If you have open differentials jack one side of a vehicle up in the front and rear and the wheel off the ground will rotate, while the wheel with ground contact won't.


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

SidecarFlip said:


> Have to take issue with that Lou. With open differentials, the power is directed to the wheel/tire assembly with the LEAST traction. Why a limited slip or locking differential is a viable option for adverse conditions, consequently, with open differentials a 4 wheel drive is really a 2 wheel drive, one wheel in front and one in the back. Easy to prove as well. If you have open differentials jack one side of a vehicle up in the front and rear and the wheel off the ground will rotate, while the wheel with ground contact won't.


Yep. In the offroad internet world this gets discussed to death. Not to get too technical, but, actually all four wheels are pulling until the load is such to cause the wheel with the least traction to spin. If it's a front wheel that loses traction first the vehicle is then being pulled by both rear wheels and however much resistance the spinning front wheel can produce. If this isn't enough to propel the vehicle then the rear wheel with least traction spins. If there's still no forward movement you are basically 2wd. This concept ws the motivator for axle companies to offer limit slip first. Then later true lockers.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

My understanding is that if you do have one back wheel spinning, you can slowly engage the park brake until there is enough resistance on the spinning wheel to let the other wheel with grip to pull.


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## ovrszd (12 mo ago)

pogobill said:


> My understanding is that if you do have one back wheel spinning, you can slowly engage the park brake until there is enough resistance on the spinning wheel to let the other wheel with grip to pull.


This concept applies the philosophy that you will apply resistance to the wheel with the least traction and distribute that resistance to the other wheel which in theory will move the vehicle forward.

I believe this is effective if it requires just slightly more traction than what's available to move the vehicle.

Worthy, but minimally effective.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

I agree, it may not be that practical, but if I get stuck, I'm trying it! LOL


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

SidecarFlip said:


> Have to take issue with that Lou. With open differentials, the power is directed to the wheel/tire assembly with the LEAST traction. Why a limited slip or locking differential is a viable option for adverse conditions, consequently, with open differentials a 4 wheel drive is really a 2 wheel drive, one wheel in front and one in the back. Easy to prove as well. If you have open differentials jack one side of a vehicle up in the front and rear and the wheel off the ground will rotate, while the wheel with ground contact won't.


Nope, both wheels will be receiving the same amount of torque if it exceeds the available traction to either tire the tire with the least traction will spin,
but they both will have the same amount of torque applied.
Jacking up a wheel on each powered axle set simply reduces the amount of torque needed to rotate that tire so that is all that the engine will develop.
You could do that and with the engine off and the transmission in neutral rotate that tire by hand, the amount of effort required to rotate those wheels in all the torque that the drivetrain will develop when powered, will that be enough to move the vehicle, I doubt it.

As far as applying the parking brake to get a bit more traction to get moving, it did work a bit on the older vehicles. But it won't work on the newer ones with the electrically applied parking brake.
Making me think and wonder now, I'll have to dig out my manual and see if it's still called an Emergency Brake or only a Parking Brake.


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## John Liebermann (Sep 17, 2018)

unsquidly said:


> The only other thing to look at is every so often, probably at least once a month, you need to shift it out of 4 wheel drive and into to 2 wheel drive to exercise the linkage and stuff..... Several posts on here and I have seen it several times myself that a tractor will get stuck in 4 wheel drive if it is left this way for long periods of time......It can be a bear and take some work to get them out of 4 wheel drive......
> 
> Just another angle on this question.....


The reason it's hard to disconnect 4WD is because of tension in the system which is caused by unequal rotation requirement rear/front.


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## John Liebermann (Sep 17, 2018)

pioneerMan said:


> If I'm always going to be driving on dirt, would there ever be a need to not engage 4x4 traction?
> 
> Thank you.


Whats the problem with disconnecting it when not needed?

Waitaminit,, you aren't talking about disconnecting the hubs are you? If you are then Yes you may as well leave them connected instead of stopping and getting out of the vehicle.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

Et; oops, resurrected a zombie. 
I leave em in 4x4, and only shift out for road running. The 1 machine primarily does loader work. The other one runs only soft ground, has a loader as well, but not loaded tires. It might make sense to shift to 2wd when running the brush cutter, but grasses won't bind up the driveline. Another point in favor of 4x4 is that it reduces the turning radius vs. 2wd.


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Groo said:


> Et; oops, resurrected a zombie.
> Another point in favor of 4x4 is that it reduces the turning radius vs. 2wd.


If you have a tractor or any vehicle for that matter that has a smaller turning radius in 4wd vs 2wd I would love to see it.......I have always found the exact opposite to be true....


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

unsquidly said:


> If you have a tractor or any vehicle for that matter that has a smaller turning radius in 4wd vs 2wd I would love to see it.......I have always found the exact opposite to be true....


Look at the spec sheets.
I remember clearly that the spec on the kubota L2550dt showed tighter turning in 4wd, and I certainly felt it in the seat. Might be more of a thing with AG tires than industrials or turfs.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

I don't recall any tractor that turned shorter in 4wd then 2wd unless the front end was sliding out, and most of my tractor operation has been with R1's.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

On hard dirt or grass, it definitely turns tighter in 4x4. The chevron bars give virtually no lateral grip, so giving them drive, helps pull the front end around. The rear diff also seams to be "more open" than others, if that makes sense. It really brake turns well, but would also go double speed on the icy driveway easily too.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

If it is turning tighter in 4wd because the front tires are pulling you around you have a large amount of lead in your front to rear tire ratio's.
Unless you have one of the few tractors that actually had a two speed front axle for extra maneuverability.
.


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Groo said:


> On hard dirt or grass, it definitely turns tighter in 4x4. The chevron bars give virtually no lateral grip, so giving them drive, helps pull the front end around. The rear diff also seams to be "more open" than others, if that makes sense. It really brake turns well, but would also go double speed on the icy driveway easily too.


I have industrial type tires on the CK3510 Kioti and Ag tires on the 2655 Massey.....Both are 4wd and neither turn tighter in 4wd then in 2wd drive......Maybe Kubota has done something different that I don't know about but it has been my experience with all of the 4wd tractors that I have ever owned or operated that, unless they are articulated, they turn better in 2wd then 4wd.....


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

the Kubota does turn tighter than other 4x4 tractors I've messed with (not that I have crazy amounts of seat time on different machines). It has the same style axle as the Kioti, but drag link steering instead of rack and pinion. I think that gives it a tighter cut angle.
because the cut angle is so extreme, that might be the difference with why have the front pull helps.


https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/CAIAAOSwcuJivbLl/s-l1600.jpg


There might also be some weird over-riding clutching and gearing games going on too. I really don't know.
then again, maybe I am miss-remembering the spec sheet and just convinced myself that it turns tighter in 4wd.

I don't drive the Kubota much these days. It is primarily a garden tractor now.


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