# Lets talk about balers...



## Country Boy

I am possibly in the market for a different small square baler. My current IH 37 baler runs fine and ties excellent, but I am just having trouble finding the labor to help bale. It has a chute in back so I have to pull every bale off the baler and stack them on the wagon. I love doing this, and don't mind the work, but finding skilled tractor drivers that have time to help is getting to be a real problem. I would like to upgrade to a thrower baler and racks so I can bale by myself and unload when I have time. My dad could even bale a few loads, assuming he wants to learn how to run the thrower (he hates new things).

I don't have a ton of money to spend on this, so I've been looking around and have been looking at newer (1970s-1980s) IH balers. A local equipment dealer has a 435 baler with thrower I want to look at, but I really know nothing about the newer IH balers, or newer balers at all. Any good models/brands to look for? Any ones to avoid? I will probably steer clear of JD balers because the nearest dealer is 40 minutes away, whereas I have IH, Hesston, and New Holland dealers within 15 minutes of my farm. I don't like the thrower system JD used with the kick plate after having used one on my cousin's farm.

Got any experiences with balers you want to share?


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## herdsman

Folks around here running throwers are running NH or Deere balers, with the trend towards NH. As far as high capacity balers, it's about 100% NH - the NH belt throwers will throw as fast as you can bale, the pan throwers can limit the baling throughput. The only advantage to a pan thrower that I know of is it's easy to disable it and drop the bales on the ground, the belt throwers take about ten minutes to disable. 

We do mostly round bales, don't do that many small squares, but we do have a few horse customers so we keep a NH 311. Had it four years now, probably 6000 bales through it and it has yet to miss one knot. It has a thrower on it, but we don't use it as our customers pick up in the field. Getting a couple kicker wagons is on the want list, but never seems to make it to the top. 

Can't help you on the older IH balers. I had a model 56 with a four cylinder IH flathead on it at one time, but I'm assuming you want to go a little newer than that. :winky:


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## Country Boy

I was at an equipment dealer today (not affiliated with any company, he sells used equipment) and he had a ton of balers there. The IH one was gone already, but he had about 12-18 New Holland and 5-6 John Deere balers there (and a few Case IH inline ones, but I didn't look at them). From what he told me, I should look at New Holland for ease of getting parts and service, and because they use a belt thrower rather than the kicker. He said the John Deere balers that come in have many more problems than the New Holland ones due to the stress exerted on the baler by the kicker when it throws. He didn't elaborate, but he was willing to sell some pretty new looking JD balers for dirt cheap due to that fact. He said "we only seem to sell JD balers to existing JD baler owners, other people don't want to buy them". He has about 5 273 NH balers, 4 311's, 3 315's and 2 316's. Price ranges from $2300-5950. Any idea which NH baler would be good for a 120 acre diary farm? I kinda thought if I get a good one, I might do a bit of custom baling in the future (if there is a market for it), so I don't want to skimp, but I'd rather not spend money I don't have to.


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## herdsman

Those are all pretty reliable balers, as far as I know. The difference is going to be in the condition. None of these are considered "high capacity" models, i.e. they're going to run about 60-70 strokes per minute. The high capacity will run 90+ strokes per minute. The 273 is the oldest of bunch, it's of 70's vintage, the 3xx are all 80's. But condition is going to be the key. 

Hard to say which baler would be best for your dairy farm, probably the number of bales a year you're going to do is a better question. But there's not a lot of difference in the balers you list as far as capacity/speed - again, condition of each is what would make me choose one over another. As I said, we have a 311 and it's been a great baler for us.


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## MBTRAC

For me NH wins hands down for the overall "best" hay gear, a good condition NH311or 315 will run rings around the equivalent/newer/new JD balers & the NH275 is a good baler too.

The advantages of the NH square balers are: easier maintenance, tight/dense consistent bales & faster/higher capacity that don't seem to "plug"

If you're going for a thrower get 1 with a NH model 70 thrower( it's 1 of the most common on NH, easier to get bits for & as I understand still being used on their new balers) & little more accurate throwing when "tuned" than the JD - whilst I'm not a fan of the JD balers either, the JD kicker system, if you're selling premium lucerne to horse people does present a nicer "quality" bale as it doesn't seem to knock the outside leaves off as much (though due to the slower baling speed, any premium bale price margin is probably offset by the increased labour/machine hours) & the JD system can be turned off if not required(whereas on the NH's it's usually a no tool c.10minute belt removal)l, the JD kicker also packs a potential "killer punch" to anyone in the line of fire if the safety isn't engaged.

While you're upgrading I'd be going for hydraulic tensioning over spring, it makes for an "evolutionary leap" in operating/maintenance - I'd also be cycling the twine system/knotters to ensure they're ok on any s/h baler prior to parting with my cash.

As an alternative to upgrading your baler you may also want to consider a s/h accummulator/FEL bale hand (just don't get 1 that drags the bales as they can damage/slow the recovery of the crop).

I don't profess to be a baling expert nor is hay making a core activity for us, rather it's an sideline opportunity cash cow when the season/projected price is right - we only occassionally use small square balers for contracted sales &/or prepaid demand & use older simple/reliable gear on lucerne which is usually forage harvested for our feedlots, though we regularly use the latest round/large square balers following our headers in crops.


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## Country Boy

Had to look up "lucerne" as I hadn't heard that when referring to hay (only the city in Switzerland). Seems it is another name for Alfalfa. Most of the hay we bale is alfalfa, or alfalfa/timothy mix. Our low ground is all planted to clover which never dries enough to bale it. The stems stay wet and it gets moldy. Most of the hay is chopped for haylage in the silo, but I do make 1-3,000 bales a year depending on the weather and yields. This year I baled the fields on the farm side of the road due to them being quite grassy from all the frost we got this spring after the alfalfa was up and growing. The hay across the road is all clover and that is in the silo.

I like the larger balers because they seem to have wider pickups which lets me lay the hay windrows wider for faster drying without having to rake the hay and knock off leaves. My neighbor does that and his hay is always better than mine. Our current baler has such a narrow pickup that you have to rake the hay in order for it to fit into the pickup, or you have to cut it into narrow windrows that don't dry well (only works on 2nd or 3rd crop when the hay is thinner). I had thought of picking up a thrower for my baler, however I'm not sure I want to invest much money into it anymore. Its not in the greatest of shape, and was pretty beat up when I bought it. Looks like it spent most of its life outside because the paint is mostly off of it and there is quite a bit of rust on it. The knotters seem to work fine with the plastic twine I have in there, but I would like to get a newer baler that can use plastic more easily and I won't have to be so careful of which brand of twine I buy. Currently it only works with the Jaguar brand from Fleet Farm because it is slightly thicker than the other brands I tried. I'd like to eliminate having to drive 45 minutes each way to get twine. I'll drag my dad down there in the next week or two and see what he thinks of the balers. They were all in really good shape, even the older ones, except for one that was about as bad as mine. It was a 315 that tied great, but looked like crap. He offered me that one at $2000 off the price of the nicer looking ones. I'm thinking I would probably go with either a 311 or 315 due to age and price. The 273's were nice looking, but just as old as the one I have now. I don't want to buy something that becomes hard to find parts for later down the road. I also thought that I might try to do some small-scale custom baling down the road if there is a demand for it. I love baling hay, so it would be a joy for me to be able to do that. Most farms around here use big square bales (haven't seen a round bale in years), so there isn't a huge demand, but there are some small farms left like me that may need a bit of hay baled but don't want to buy a baler.


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## Mickey

Been yrs since I was in the haying business. When talking high capacity and HD balers, the name that comes to mind for me in the PNW is Freeman. Many/most were self powered as they took a lot of power to operate. Looks like they are still in business but certainly not a well know name. Their model 370 tips the scales at nearly 8k lbs. and can pump out 30T of alfalfa an hr. Certainly not your grandfathers baler.  http://www.freemanbaler.com/products/270_370Pull.htm

I had a JD336 baler and wasn't too impressed. Maybe I was running it harder than it was designed for.

CB, you talked about having trouble with drying some kinds of hay. That was alway a problem here for 1st cutting alfalfa and clover and more typ grasses if heavy. Had a mower/conditioner and would lay the hay down in a narrow swath. Left a wide area of ground exposed to the sun to aid in drying out the ground. When turned the hay crop was laying on the stubble and dry ground. Turned the row so it would lay down in a wide swath (not your typ hay rake) and crop would then dry fairly quick. Here, typ time needed for 1st cutting was 4 days. Been out of the business for yrs so things have likely changed. Oh, round bales not too popular in this area.


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## foz682

We gave up square baling in the mid 80's when we were making 40- 50k bales a year, and we switched to all round. Set our farm up to accommodate round and never looked back. Our first round baler was a JD, can't recall the model, and we had it for about ten years then bought a Claas Rollant 46rc, equipped with the roto cutter system which seemed to reduce loss at the bunk. We've had pretty good luck with it so far, aside from ongoing bearing replacement. It bales about 1400 per year, around 450 are +1000lbs and the rest are dry weighing in around 400lbs. We don't plan on going back to a baler with belts. The only downside of actual operation of this baler is you have to travel a bit slower than you can with others.
People around my area have been pretty skeptic about round bales for years, and either stuck with small square or everything was in tower silos or bunkers, but two years ago our machinery federation took a chance and bought a New Holland BR7060, and nearly every farmer in the area was looking to use it. There was so much demand for using it the last two years that the federation bought another new one this year.


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## MBTRAC

Right on Country Boy, Lucerne = Alfalfa as in Hay or Chaff (interestingly "Down Under" you'll only see the name Alfalfa used on sprouts for human consumption). 

Seems to me if you enjoy baling & there are quite a few small farms around there could be an opportunity for some extra $'s in contracting &/or share farming (allowing you to upgrade or upsize your equipment more regularly), there's I suspect a niche & money to made for someone (if you're doing 1-3K bales/yr work out the input cost of your baler capital puchase over expected life/number of bales to give you a rough cost/bale, ditto for tractor & other gear + labour, then see if there's a market if you add a reasonable margin for your services - quote a cost per bale is best as any potential customers can then work out it's viable for them pretty quickly.

Like most farming, right sizing/matching your gear really helps to maximise the returns. And in hay making preserves the quality of the hay so addtional activities such as extra turning for drying isn't required & extra hours are not incurred. We're lucky because of the size of our operations we're mostly able to use/buy the gear that best fits the application - our small square balers are only ever used on premium 2nd/3rd cut "Alfalfa", that has been "prepared" from 1st cutting (for feedlot) with SP (Self Propelled) Forage Harvesters then Conditioned/Windrowed for hay by our SP Swathers "seasonal diverted" from core grain activities.

Apart from premium hay for horses & low volume higher margin sales through wholesaler produce stores to "hobby" farmers, there's relatively limited $$$/market from our area "Down Under" for small square bales - though commercial quantities seem fairly evenly spilt large round/large square (despite the transport/handling advantages) & for our own use wrapping round for silage & dry large square is the preference because of mixer/mill set ups.


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## Country Boy

Mickey said:


> Been yrs since I was in the haying business. When talking high capacity and HD balers, the name that comes to mind for me in the PNW is Freeman. Many/most were self powered as they took a lot of power to operate. Looks like they are still in business but certainly not a well know name. Their model 370 tips the scales at nearly 8k lbs. and can pump out 30T of alfalfa an hr. Certainly not your grandfathers baler.  http://www.freemanbaler.com/products/270_370Pull.htm
> 
> I had a JD336 baler and wasn't too impressed. Maybe I was running it harder than it was designed for.
> 
> CB, you talked about having trouble with drying some kinds of hay. That was alway a problem here for 1st cutting alfalfa and clover and more typ grasses if heavy. Had a mower/conditioner and would lay the hay down in a narrow swath. Left a wide area of ground exposed to the sun to aid in drying out the ground. When turned the hay crop was laying on the stubble and dry ground. Turned the row so it would lay down in a wide swath (not your typ hay rake) and crop would then dry fairly quick. Here, typ time needed for 1st cutting was 4 days. Been out of the business for yrs so things have likely changed. Oh, round bales not too popular in this area.



The problem with Red Clover is that the stems don't release their moisture very well. If you want to bale it, you have to wait until it is very ripe (flowered and starting with a seed head) and then mow it with a mower/conditioner with the rolls set as tight as possible. I lay it completely flat and leave it sit for 3-5 days, then roll it and let it sit for another 2-3 days. I got a few acres across the road baled like that because it had dried too much to chop for haylage. The leaves will be dry and crunchy, but the stems will still be raw and tough. It also turns black when it gets rained on, and the cows won't eat it then. If the bales are too wet when baled, they will mold, and clover molds put out a chemical that acts as a blood thinner and can kill the cattle that eat it. I try to keep the clover hay for the silo, but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way.


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## Edster

Country Boy said:


> I was at an equipment dealer today (not affiliated with any company, he sells used equipment) and he had a ton of balers there. The IH one was gone already, but he had about 12-18 New Holland and 5-6 John Deere balers there (and a few Case IH inline ones, but I didn't look at them). From what he told me, I should look at New Holland for ease of getting parts and service, and because they use a belt thrower rather than the kicker. He said the John Deere balers that come in have many more problems than the New Holland ones due to the stress exerted on the baler by the kicker when it throws. He didn't elaborate, but he was willing to sell some pretty new looking JD balers for dirt cheap due to that fact. He said "we only seem to sell JD balers to existing JD baler owners, other people don't want to buy them". He has about 5 273 NH balers, 4 311's, 3 315's and 2 316's. Price ranges from $2300-5950. Any idea which NH baler would be good for a 120 acre diary farm? I kinda thought if I get a good one, I might do a bit of custom baling in the future (if there is a market for it), so I don't want to skimp, but I'd rather not spend money I don't have to.


Any on that list of NH balers are good ones. I currently run a 315 that I am putting a thrower on right now. Someone said that those we not high capacity balers. I disagree, the 315 and 316 are both marketed as High Capacity balers running at 90 strokes a minute. Both have a wide pick up. The 316 is essentially an updated 315. If I had my choice based on your list and one of the 316's looked good that's what I would go with. The 315 would be my next choice. One thing you have to remember is that the last 315 rolled off the line in 1982. One thing to keep in mind is that most companies start phasing out parts on models 30 years or older. Not to say you can't find parts just that there are starting to get scarce. I just ordered a couple of parts for the thrower and some are discontinued. Got lucky and a dealer in VT and one in PA still had the parts in stock. There are always salvage yards to get parts too. One saving grace is that parts like knotters seem to be interchangeable. 

Here is a listing of NH balers and their production dates
77 NH SQUARE BALER (4/49-10/53)
S77 NH SUPER SQUARE BALER (10/53-7/57)
S66 NH SUPER SQUARE BALER (8/55-9/57)
78 NH SQUARE BALER (7/57-8/58)
S68 NH SUPER SQUARE BALER (8/58-10/60)
98 NH SQUARE BALER (4/57-2/60)
S78 NH SUPER SQUARE BALER (8/58-7/61) 
65 NH SQUARE BALER (8/60-2/65)
99 NH SQUARE BALER (2/61-5/63)
270 NH SQUARE BALER (8/61-7/63)
280 NH SQUARE BALER (8/61-7/64) 
271 NH SQUARE BALER (8/61-7/64)
268 NH SQUARE BALER BELOW S/N 12777 (7/63-7/64) 
268 NH SQUARE BALER ABOVE S/N 12778 (7/64-6/68)
281 NH SQUARE BALER (8/64-7/66)
269 NH SQUARE BALER (8/64-6/68)
272 NH SQUARE BALER (7/64-6/68)
290 NH SQUARE BALER (1/64-2/76) 
275 NH SQUARE BALER (1/66-5/71) 
282 NH SQUARE BALER (8/66-5/72) 
285 NH SQUARE BALER (11/67-4/72) 
277 NH SQUARE BALER (11/68-5/72) 
273 NH SQUARE BALER (7/68-7/77) 
276 NH SQUARE BALER (7/71-6/76) 
283 NH SQUARE BALER (8/72-4/77) 
320 NH SQUARE BALER (8/75-5/84) 
286 NH SQUARE BALER (8/72-5/77) 
315 NH SQUARE BALER (8/76-4/82) 
500 NH SQUARE BALER (10/76-1/83) 
425 NH SQUARE BALER (11/77-10/82) 
420 NH SQUARE BALER (10/79-11/82) 
311 NH SQUARE BALER (8/81-7/88) 
316 NH SQUARE BALER (9/82-1/89) 
505 NH SQUARE BALER (1/84-3/91) 
326 NH SQUARE BALER (7/85-7/88) 
565 NH SQUARE BALER (7/88- )
570 NH SQUARE BALER (7/88- )
575 NH SQUARE BALER (7/88- )
585 NH 3-TIE IN-LINE SQUARE BALER (1/97-4/99)
BB900 NH 3-TIE INLINE SQUARE BALER (10/00- )


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## Country Boy

I ended up buying a 273 Hayliner NH baler. Was owned by a small farmer with only 80 acres and hardly shows any wear. I won't be able to use it until later in the week due to 5 inches of rain falling in the last week and a half (I'm not complaining at all, mind you). The 315's and 316's he had there were in excellent shape but cost a bit more than I wanted to spend. I don't do that many bales per year, and I don't need an $8,000 - $10,000 baler to do that. I paid $2700 for the one I have plus two wagons, total came to less than $5900. I can always upgrade balers in the future if I need to, but for now, this one should suit me nicely.


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## herdsman

Good luck with your 273, I'm sure it'll do the job for you.

Now if you could just send some of that rain this way...


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## NH269

Tractor size needed to use NH269?


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## herdsman

35 should be enough...


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## NH269

It's been 50 years since I baled hay as a kid. Just a few acres to bale so why not! Bought a used; said to work well NH269 rig. Looks to be in pretty good condition but will have to get a manual. Tried to bale a little grass but unit was very slow to pick up and eventually jammed up. Thought might be loose belt but appears okay. Second thought was horsepower required; 48 should be okay. Guess it's time to go back to school.


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## bmaverick

Smart move on the 273 Hayliner NH baler with the two trailers. From my area IH does not have a good reputation for square balers, but a great one for tractors. JD is kinda middle of the road. The NH and Allis-Chalmers are really the gold nuggets in the square baling realm. 

As for the round baling machines, I'm not that well versed. Many of the sheep, goat and lama farms in our area have no use whatsoever for round bales. Cows sure thing, round is king. However, cattle in the Nashville and central TN has been passed up by farming tobacco crops that bring in more money. 

There is an odd thing in our area, one farm only grows sunflowers by the hundreds of acres. In a weird twist, most of the bee farms are in that area too. 

Enjoy your baler. Keep things well lubricated and up on the maintenance checks. 

Out west due to the worst drought since 1540 ever recorded there is NO HAY. They are paying top dollar trucking in the hay to feed the livestock. Round, square, bundled, they don't care, long as they can get it. 17 sates are affected by this drought. Hay prices are on the rise from the 2012 national price of 97 cents vs. 2010 being 76 cents per square bale. 2014 will jump off the charts with a spike. Just look at Shasta Lake. It will take well over 40 years to replenish to the 2008 levels. California is now labeled as "Dust & Bones" drought. Worse than the dust bowl of the last century. 

The issue isn't the price of the bales, it's finding enough land to harvest good hay. In some rural to urban areas hay is being scoped out on the little plots too. So, those who have just exited the haying business have not seen the desperate need that has now taken effect.


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