# John Deere 216 dying when warm (electrical Problem)



## GMHilltop (Jun 30, 2010)

Hi folks, hope you can help.

As per the title, I have a John Deere 216
Kohler Engine, Model: K341AQS, S/N: 9864582

Starts and runs initially just fine. I am not sure if it is temperature related exactly, but what is happening is this: It will be running and then it will suddenly die (like the spark plug is being grounded).

Other symptoms:
After it has died, I hear this 'TICK' sound ( like a solenoid being turned on {tick sound} ... and then after 4-5 seconds {a 2nd tick sound} it sounds like a solenoid is being turned off)

When this is happening, the electrical gauge is showing a FULL DISCHARGE and if I try to turn the key the starter will not engage until the '2nd tick sound' and the electrical gauge returns to normal (showing on the positive side of things). 

This would continue to cycle on and off (If I let it) til the whole thing cools off ( I am guessing 3-5 minutes).

If I do start it, it fires right away; it may however ground out right away or may run a couple of seconds, but when it grounds out (electrical gauge showing full discharge) the engine dies.

Has anyone experienced this? I have looked over the wiring and there doesn't appear to be any obvious places the wiring has been rubbing or worn through to cause the grounding.

Is there an electrical component that could be grounding out that I can't see? The coil is cool, and doesn't appear to being getting hot.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

Does it have any visible relays in the ignition harness? I believe i would try and check the starter solenoid first, check the ground, ignition wire, ignition switch, and cable positive. It sounds like its loosing power to the coil through the ignition which would have to go through the solenoid. You can pull the pigtail from the ignition and check the plug tabs for burn marks, etc. Just a few things to start with some other members will most likely have some input as well.


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## GMHilltop (Jun 30, 2010)

wjjones said:


> Does it have any visible relays in the ignition harness?


Not that I can see.



wjjones said:


> I believe i would try and check the starter solenoid first . . . .


Would the grounding out of the starter solenoid (internally I am assuming is what you are referring to) cause the engine to die???

Is that not like grounding the Positive post of the battery? I didn't think that that would kill an engine - wreak havoc with the electrical system yes, but kill the engine? (I am not an expert here - I am just asking)




wjjones said:


> check the ground,


all seem fine.



wjjones said:


> ignition wire,


I am assuming you mean the spark plug wire (that wouldn't cause a "massive grounding" that I am seeing on the gauge though)



wjjones said:


> ignition switch,


I am not sure what to look for - It looks fine. There is no discoloration or anything that looks like it is deformed due to heat or melting -- HOWEVER, when I was checking around the switch (when the grounding appeared to be happening, one of the wires felt unusually warm. 

I'll look into this and report back what I find. (at the moment I can't tell where it is going or what it is for exactly, but it is obvious that there is a whack of current running through it for it to be warm.



wjjones said:


> and cable positive.


Looks fine. Nothing unusual there.



wjjones said:


> It sounds like its loosing power to the coil through the ignition...


Do you mean the ignition switch (keyed switch)?
That would explain why one of the wires to the on the back of the ignition switch is getting warm




wjjones said:


> . . . which would have to go through the solenoid.


I take it that the starter solenoid is the culprit. I am assuming that if after I get it running, AND, if I then disconnect the solenoid, (and go for a run and it doesn't die) that would mean I have found my problem.

I'll give this a try and report back.



wjjones said:


> You can pull the pigtail from the ignition and check the plug tabs for burn marks


You lost me - I am not sure what you are referring too. Could you clarify for me? Thanks.

Again, thanks for the advise. Will let you know what I find shortly.


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## GMHilltop (Jun 30, 2010)

I thought that I'd try checking to see if the voltage regulator is maybe causing trouble. I did this by disconnecting the 3-wire connector.

That is not it. Something is still grounding out in the electrical system somewhere and killing the engine.

As I dug down a little I found a 12volt-25amp breaker . . . I think that that must be the 'tick' sound that I am hearing when the system is getting grounded out and showing full discharge on the ammeter.

Is it possible that the coil is grounding out internally?

The thing that I don't get is that IF it is the coil --- wouldn't it stay fried (after a short cooling period it starts right back up, and the coil is not hot at all)? 25+ amps is a of juice and i would think that it would kill any wiring internally in a coil if that was the case.

Any comments? Anyone?

Thanks


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

I would bet it is the coil. This will cause the exact problem you are having dont know why they do this but i have seen it before.


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## John Deere 110 (Oct 11, 2009)

The 25Amp Breaker Is For The Lights, The 3 Wires Going Into the Regulator Is your Alternator Charging up The Battery, & No Relays In The Wiring System. I Would Check The Volts Going In & Out of The Coil Pack, Check All Wires Make Sure There In Tact, Make Sure All Grounds Are Grounded, & If The Spark Plug Is Not Grounded It WONT Start, & Make Sure Your Breaker Points Are In Working Order, & Grounded Up To The Condenser, Because If u Have a Faulty Condenser That Is Not Grounding Out Properly It Will Also Cause This Problem.

Re Cap:

Check All Wires, All Grounds, Condenser, Breaker Points, Coil Pack

JL


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## GMHilltop (Jun 30, 2010)

*Turns out temperature was not the issue*

Turns out there was a wire (I have no idea what it was for at all) that was laying on top of the fuel tank that for some reason had the Live Male connector exposed. On our steep hills the thing slid around, and after all this time, started occasionally making contact with a bolt connected to the frame. This shorted to ground, tripped the 25 amp breaker and killed the engine.

Frustrating as it was, that is all that it was.


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## John Deere 110 (Oct 11, 2009)

That Wire On The Gas Tank Was Probably For The Seat Safety Switch, But No Worries It Was Minor.

Glad To Hear The Problem Is Resolved!!

JL


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## clmegramps (Aug 21, 2011)

*216 dying problem*

It sounds like the clicking sound you are hearing is a circuit breaker designed to cut out if there is too much current passing thru the system. The first click is circuit breaker kicking out and the seconed click is the circuit breaker resetting.

You have a dead short. Try disconnecting parts in the wiring until the clicking stops. In that part of the wiring there is a problem.


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