# biodiesel



## jaso22

Anyone have any experience with Biodiesel? I know Willie Nelson uses it in his tour bus and in his Mercedies.


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## chrpmaster

Had a rousing "discussion" about bio-diesel this weekend at a family get together. My brother has an 04 chevy with the Duramax and he said he has run several tanks of biodiesel with no problems. As picky as he is about that truck I took that as a huge endorsement.


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## Live Oak

B10 or B20 will burn without you noticing much if any difference. B100 has the highest cetane rating (approx. 45) and burns best and the most quiet. It does however act much like a solvent and will dissolve crud and deposits in the fuel lines and system until it has cleaned them out which can clog fuel filters initially but once the system is clean and you have replaced the filters they should be fine. You may find that you have to replace them a few times until all is cleaned out. The solvent properties are primarily due to the methanol and lye that is used to process it. Biodiesel is not a good fuel to leave setting for long periods of time as it can obsorb water and foster microbial growth. If you fill up and us it right away, it should do just fine. I wish someone sold it around my area as I would definitely use it. As long as it has been properly processed, it is as good and better in my opinion than dino diesel. One big draw back to using Biodiesel is that is will gel at much warmer temps than dino diesel. Extra anti-gel additives must be added for cold weather use.


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## John-in-Ga

Biodiesel and it’s quality at this juncture must be some what of a hit or miss deal, depending on who manufactures it and from what. I’m getting opposing opinions from two people who have a vested interest in the companys they represent.

My son-in-law works with some folks who have started producing it, mostly form chicken processing plant waste. The company is using it in their vehicles including some over the road 18 wheelers hauling grass sod. So far they have had no problems. They are also trying to market it locally. They are asking about $.49 a gallon less than that that of regular diesel.

His wife (my daughter) works for a bulk petroleum dealer. She says, while she’s no report of it happening with her husband’s company's product, they have had one customer who tried some for another company and it had not only clogged his fuel filters but had caused him to have to rebuild his injector pump. Needless to say, that customer has switched back to regular diesel.


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## Archdean

From the FAR SIDE!!

I have watched this crapola (canola) oil bio BS for years!! Now I have 50+ grand invested in Diesel powered equipment!! AND I WILL ONLY FEED THEM DINO DIESEL!! Red/Yellow matters not to me!!

G/F is in charge of chicken broth/corn oil/ fancy Peirogies made with bio products!! (yum yum!! BUT for the sake of saving a few pennies) I Can't imagine a more mortal sin then insulting my little DINO eaters by trying to make them subsist on chicken gizzerds, rendered or not!!

And I think so much of them I also fortify their little tummies with an approved additive with every filling (meal)!!

Never a complaint and they love me for being a good DADDY!!!

Suggest that Diesel owners stop stepping over a dime to harvest a nickel!!


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## jaso22

*I think the point is...*

I think the point is to free ourselves from these greedy "Blank Blanker" oil companies. They seem to be the ones that want to have all the toys when the game is over. 

BTW when you have a 150 HP John Deer 4630 You burn 80+ gallons of Diesel in 8 hours. I'm not riding around on a orange lawn tractor.


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## Chris

Well, time that our fearless leader has stepped back onto the playing field....and off of the IR list... 

Miss you ole' bastards and your steel blade slicing machines!!!
HOW BOUT A BIG WELCOME BACK FROM THE DOGPACK?

:furious: :furious: :furious:


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## HarryG

Welcome back Andy. Where ya been anyways??????? Ruff, Ruff, woof, woof,:furious:


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## Archdean

> _Originally posted by admin _
> *Well, time that our fearless leader has stepped back onto the playing field....and off of the IR list...
> 
> Miss you ole' bastards and your steel blade slicing machines!!!
> HOW BOUT A BIG WELCOME BACK FROM THE DOGPACK?
> 
> :furious: :furious: :furious: *


You were gone?? Who knew?? I didn't notice!!!
:bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy: :serta: :serta:   

YES!! WELCOME BACK WHIPPER-SNAPPER!!!!


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## Live Oak

Are you back in town or just taking a break from work?


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## HarryG

Andy, you wouldn't be down there "politicking" for Mayor Ray Nagin would ya????:furious: :furious: :furious:


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## DixieTom

*Re: I think the point is...*



> _Originally posted by jaso22 _
> *I think the point is to free ourselves from these greedy "Blank Blanker" oil companies. They seem to be the ones that want to have all the toys when the game is over.
> 
> BTW when you have a 150 HP John Deer 4630 You burn 80+ gallons of Diesel in 8 hours. I'm not riding around on a orange lawn tractor. *


That is some funny crap there!!!! DEAN, I think Jaso22 has your number....hahahaha! The orange lawn tractor! HAHA

-Tom


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## Archdean

*Re: Re: I think the point is...*



> _Originally posted by DixieTom _
> *That is some funny crap there!!!! DEAN, I think Jaso22 has your number....hahahaha! The orange lawn tractor! HAHA
> 
> -Tom *


I just signed an order this morning to have an 1800 sq ft Modular home transported less then 800 miles with DOT required escorts double (wide load) and a fuel surcharge of 18% total cost of $5980!!

Eggs used to be a nickle apiece and in some places they still are!! (End of that fairy tale), now the above is just a cost of doing business and you either adjust with the world economy or you do not!! it matters not if the tractors are Orange/Blue or Green!!

Jasco22 may have someones number but it's not mine!! 

"Originally posted by jaso22 
I think the point is to free ourselves from these greedy "Blank Blanker" oil companies. They seem to be the ones that want to have all the toys when the game is over. 

BTW when you have a 150 HP John Deer 4630 You burn 80+ gallons of Diesel in 8 hours. I'm not riding around on a orange lawn tractor. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"""

That type of thinking ignors even the basics of Economics 101!!!


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## Chris

haha... the old goat got his number called! :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:


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## evan

*Biodiesel Production*

If anyone is interested in getting started in Biodiesel production or would like to streamline their production techinques please contact me for more information......My name is Evan and my email is [email protected].....I am happy to help any curious people. Thanks and good luck with your biofuel endeavors.


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## Live Oak

Welcome to Tractor Forum Evan! In my opinion, biodiesel will become a required addition to the up coming ULSD. Cummins already has a warning out about the low lubricity characteristics and that it can damage pump seals. The idea of burning a renewable, cleaner buring, higher cetane fuel seems like a win/win scenario to me. The biggest hurdle I think will be instituting consistent production standards, addressing fuel system compatibility issues, and NOT allowing the oil companies to produce it. We need MORE competition in the energy market. 

Evan, if you could pass along some advice and info. on reasonable cost small unit biodiesel production units. I think a LOT of us would definitely be interested. The biodiesel production kits I currently see on the market are just way to high in price to justify the cost of making biodiesel.


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## Live Oak

Evan, I do have a question about the by products of biodiesel. What is done with all of the left over glycerin?


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## Chris

Chief, We use to make nitroglycerin of course! yumyum


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## DixieTom

Deanie, did you get lost in a bit vat of Jaso22's biofuel or did you stub your toe when you fell off your orange riding mower tripping over that wooden nickel? F-I-N-A-L-L-Y, the pompous a$$ gets his ticket punched and hides away from the forum!

I say, GO BIO ALL THE WAY!

Love to hear your insight and info on the subject, Evan!
-tom


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## jaso22

*I guess someones got my number...*

It takes me almost 10 days to burn $6000 worth of diesel in the ole 4630. The combine is a little more fuel efficiant. Guess it's just small time operations farming 2 square miles of wheat/soybeans and running 750 head of cattle. I will be sure to mind my P's & Q's to avoid hitting the neighbor's mailbox & Kubota windmill in my back 80. HAHAHA! ----- sounds like Mr. Orange is a little Mr. Green underneath! yumyum yumyum yumyum yumyum


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## Live Oak

Evan, 

If it is not too much trouble, can you show us some of the biodiesel production units you work with and can you give us some feedback on the issue of fuel system seal deterioration and modification with 100% biodiesel fuel use? 

I am a strong proponent of biodiesel but I have been reading that the major diesel engine manufacturers are only willing to stick there toe into the water so to speak in that they will endorse the use of biodiesel ONLY in 5% to 20% concentrations. I plan to go buy some in the near future from my destributor to burn in my Cummins and Deere but I will have to mix it if I want to stay within engine warranty requirements.


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## DixieTom

Did anyone see the Dirty Jobs episode last night with the biodiesel guy, the mexican grease restaurant, the elaborate biodiesel plant he had....seemed really nice for a homemade setup!!! Said he was getting around $0.55/gallon when everything was done and processed. Now since he was preheating, purifying, mixing & processing the oils before he was running them in the engine, do they still require a heat exchange setup on the diesel vehicle?


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## OleGrandWizard

Did catch that episode myself! Bet you enjoyed the BOUDIN part 

of the show too, TOM! Didn't know what exactly was in that stuff

either, but knowing is not always better when it comes to 

sausage, hotdogs and loose women!

:furious: :furious: :furious:


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## watersdale

*Biodiesel Fuel System Modifications*

Evan,

I would also be grateful for any fuel system modification information for using B100. 

Dale


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## evan

Thanks for the warm welcome Ya'll.....sorry for the delay and here is a little blurb on Biodiesel for you to chew on. 


Basically, Biodiesel is an energy and cost efficient way to run a diesel driven farming industry. With petroleum gas prices at an all time high at most American pumps, producing your own biofuel has the potential to keep your budget at a steady profitable margin for years to come. It supports the farm trade by creating demand for American crops (specifically soy) and provides farmers with a source of low sulfur fuel. According to the National Biodiesel Board (NBB), even low blends of Biodiesel can offer:

-exceptional lubricity
-longer equipment life
-lower maintenance costs and less equipment down time
-a cleaner burning fuel that is friendlier to the user and the environment 

The NBB also states that "the use of Biodiesel does not void the warranty of any major engine manufacturer." Different engine manufacturers have various policies regarding Biodiesel usage in their engines. The NBB published a website with links to various Engine Manufactures policies: 

http://www.nbb.org/resources/fuelfactsheets/standards_and_warranties.shtm. 

The technology has been tested thoroughly and is safe and effective. A number of independent studies have been completed with the results showing Biodiesel performs similarly to petroleum diesel while benefiting the environment and human health compared to diesel. That research includes studies performed by the U.S. Department of Energy, as well as the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Biodiesel is the first and only alternative fuel to have completed the rigorous Health Effects testing requirements of the Clean Air Act. 

Biodiesel can extend engine life on your tractors with little to no modifications. Most modifications are needed on older tractor models which rubber is used for the seals and hoses; you will need to change over to synthetic lines and seals. Also, like Chief said, Biodiesel acts as a solvent and when it is introduced you will need to check and may have to change the fuel filter as the residue from petroleum fuel is broken down and carried out. 

Chief, to answer your question about glycerine, a byproduct of the production process; glycerine by weight and volume is actually worth more than Biodiesel and Circle promotes the refinement and sale of it. The USDA reports in publication IUS-6 that "Glycerine is used in over 1,500 applications and end products. It has an extensive list of traditional uses that include drugs, cosmetics, resins, polymers, explosives, toothpaste, tobacco processing, paints, paper manufacturing, lubricants,
textiles, and rubber.....because of its environmentally friendly characteristics, glycerine has potential in new-generation fabric softeners, deicing fluids, and drilling fluids." 


Another wonderful aspect of producing your own Biodiesel is that the government provides a $1.10 refundable tax return for every gallon sold up to 15 million gallons(IRS publication 378) . This is a tax credit and is a huge incentive for anyone looking to sell the fuel they produce. 


The company I represent is called Circle Biodiesel and Ethanol Corporation and they manufacture Biodiesel production machines and Ethanol stills. They have small and large capacity machines which make B100 grade ASTM Biodiesel. Their smaller, batch machine, the C250-BP, can produce 250,000 gallons per year; while most batch processors on the market today are made out of plastic, Circle's are stainless steel which use heat to expedite the operation. Circle's larger, continuos flow processor, C2MM-CF can produce 2 million gallons a year and is one of the most cost effective processors available. Circle is an American-owned company and their machines are produced using 100% American parts and labor. For more info their website is www.circlebio.com. 


Any more questions, don't hesitate to email me at [email protected]. I will be happy to field most anything and if I don't know the answer I will find it. 

Thanks and good luck with your biofuel endeavors, 
Evan M.
www.circlebio.com


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## evan

To add........ here is an article from the NBB about use of biodiesel over 20% solution....

http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/Biodiesel_Blends_Above _20_Final.pdf


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## DieselPower

I have been making my own BioDiesel for 2 years now and love the stuff. All my base oil is "FREE"!! I have contracts set up with over 2 dozen local restraunts and I get all of their old nasty cooking oil. Cost me about 78 cents a gallon to process that nasty gunk into clean burning BioDiesel and on top of that I sell the glycerine waste product to a local chemical company.

I run it full strength in all my trucks, tractors and even my 3 cylinder Perkins diesel powered hydraulic power unit during the spring, summer and fall months and have not had a problem yet. In the winter I mix it 50/50 with regular petro diesel and add a degel additive to keep it from gelling up on me, but it's still cheaper than running full strength petro diesel.

One of the first thing's I noticed when I started running the B100 was that I could increase my oil change intervals. With used oil analysis I was previously getting on average 25-28,000 miles per oil change. When I started running B100 my oil change intervals have gone to 35,000 miles now. The B100 burns cleaner then Dino does so it does not contaminate the oil as fast which keeps my TBN higher, longer. So in addition to being cheaper than Dino diesel it is also saving me money by increasing my oil change intervals.

Another benefit is the superior lubricity of BioDiesel. My poor antique little Perkins 3cyl diesel was having a injector failure about every 3,000 hours back when I was running Dino diesel. On average 2-3 injector rebuilds a year (engine runs 24/7/365 except when down for service or repair). Since I have started using the BioDiesel I have not had 1 injector failure, none, nada, zip in a little over 2 years now.

I haven't found one downside to BioDiesel yet.


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## watersdale

*I want to make my own biodiesel*

Thanks for your wonderful responce: I used refined biodiesel at the project in Fort Jefferson and had great results. Now I have all the left over solar panels, batteries, invertors and microcogenerators. I am installing this left over equipment on my home, studio and small business/barn and office building. I have also installed a geothermal heating and cooling system in the new barn. When it is complete I want to learn how to make my own biodiesel from used cooking oil. Any info you can send our way on refining used oil would be most helpful. I am not an engineer or chemist so the simpler the better. Again, thanks for your info.


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## ktm rider

> _Originally posted by Archdean _
> *From the FAR SIDE!!
> 
> I have watched this crapola (canola) oil bio BS for years!! Now I have 50+ grand invested in Diesel powered equipment!! AND I WILL ONLY FEED THEM DINO DIESEL!! Red/Yellow matters not to me!!
> 
> G/F is in charge of chicken broth/corn oil/ fancy Peirogies made with bio products!! (yum yum!! BUT for the sake of saving a few pennies) I Can't imagine a more mortal sin then insulting my little DINO eaters by trying to make them subsist on chicken gizzerds, rendered or not!!
> 
> And I think so much of them I also fortify their little tummies with an approved additive with every filling (meal)!!
> 
> Never a complaint and they love me for being a good DADDY!!!
> 
> Suggest that Diesel owners stop stepping over a dime to harvest a nickel!! *


No offense , But I would much rather give my hard earned dollar to a good old tractor using American farmer then fund some middle easterner who gladly takes our American dollar and then turns around and calls us infidels and uses my dollar to possibly fund terrorist attacks on the good ol' US of A !!!!
O.k. My rant is over now and I feel better.


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## Archdean

No offense taken!!

This whole discussion remindes me of the now defunct Wind Power fiasco started in the seventies!!

On a global scale Dino reignes and the French fry oil reclaimed from McDonalds is akin to Don Quxiote tipping at windmills!!

Dean


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## ktm rider

Defunct wind power fiasco?? Please explain

Windpower is more alive now than ever. As a matter of fact there is a large Windturbine company erecting 26 VERY Large wind turbines right outside my gate/ property line on top of the mountain I live on . As a matter of fact the state of Md. mandated that they are 10% alternative energy ( i.e. wind power ) by the year 2020 or something like that... 

I even looked into residential wind turbines and I think i am going to pull the trigger next fall. There is a new residential wind turbine that was just introduced this summer that will supply enough power for an averaged sized home ( providing you have the wind) and the total cost is right at $5,500. 
No batteries to buy, no inverter, no load dumps, just hook it right to the meter.... 

Again, the would translate into less fossil fuel burned which means less more to out Middle Eastern " Friends" 

http://www.skystreamenergy.com/skystream/


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## Archdean

I'm happy for you and I add this!

May the Wind always fill your sails!!

I assume that you also use and benefit from Industries that consume Mega Watts of energy for instance The yanmar that you list and the car/truck that you drive or say the mill that produced the lumber/plywood that was used to build your residence, or perhaps the fresh produce that your family consumed for supper along with the slaughter house that processed your hamburger or your chicken fajita that your family enjoyed at your table tonight!!

The Point is, while I agree with you in principal the energy that you speak of so fondly is inferiorly inadequately capable of sustaining your life as you now enjoy it!!

The far side is still very much the realistic actuality in our global economy!!


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## ktm rider

Don't get me wrong, I love the smell of diesel smoke ( fossil or otherwise ) out of my Cummins powered truck . I also benefit from coal burning powerplants. I am far, VERY FAR from a granola eating Tree hugger. I just think that if cleaner energy is "Doable" then why not do it and line american farmers pockets instead of American dollars going elsewhere???? 

Although, I don't see how the energy I am talking about is as you say " inferiorly inadequate" If it does the job as well or better, then how is it inadequate? 
Bio diesel will either run a diesel engine or it won't. Wind generated power will either power a home or it won't there is no halfway really so how could it be classified as inferior? 
In many ways I would say it is actually "Superior" to the old energy practices simply because it is more enviromentally friendly. 

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing you have a financial stake in the use of fossil fuels. i.e. stocks, bonds, etc...


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## Archdean

What I do or do not have a stake in is not the issue, rather The prinicaple of Scale is the issue!!

Let me see if this helps explain it a Micro brewery is also a neat DOABLE thing but for that small limited resourse attempting to supply just one Major league ball game is impossible and in addition a single McDonalds uses maybe 50 gallons of Bio oil per week which translates to maybe two fillups in your auto while 25 to 30 thousand vehicles vist that same single golden arches during the same time period!! (don't quote me on the illiustrative numbers)

Do the math !! The numbers just flat don't and can't even begin to make a ripple in the global demand!!

Dean


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## ktm rider

This is true but, Everything started small. You can't just completely go alt fuel for the entire country in just one day. 
I don't mean home brew biofuel. I think of biofuel in terms of major corn growers and bigtime refineries. 

Brazil is already about 40% biofuel made from sugar cane, not Micky D's grease traps but from hard working farmers. It didn't start at 40% it had to work at it that country is getting it done. The U.S. could easily get it done also. That is, if it wanted to. There are way too many pockets being lined by "big oil" for this to happen any time soon though.


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## Archdean

Everything starts small to which I agree!! 

My point is an Acorn amongst a mature oak stand is peeing upwind!!

There is a huge difference in the 40% in use for Brazil vs the Mega need in the US. and soon to be needed in China, a major upcoming user of petrolium (dino) fuel!!

I'm somewhat familiar with anwar having lived 14 years there and all of this anginst /handwringing that has occured, has set the industry back 50 years. Sorta like the misdirected effort in protecting the piss ant while the Elephants are stampeding!!

The fourth alarm has already sounded and Bio anything will not tame the heat from this fire!!

A great idea for the awakeing economys of the world but ours will not turn away from the ditch!!

We instead should be realistic in exploration and production towards makeing our dream last as long as feaseable!!

Study your history, it's what happnes to all of the socities of the world, past and present!! It's an inievietable part of the human spirit!!

Enjoyed the discussion BTW,
Dean


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## ducati996

I really, really, really want to learn more about this subject - 
I would like to encourage all types of contribution to this subject
and to thank those with the knowledge beforehand in sharing with us all.

I will admit im deathly affraid to put biodiesel in my new precious machines - Ford F550 and Deere 2520 but Im really interested in it for home heating. 
I figure I use 2000 gallons a year +/- 500 gallons and and would rather try it on a much simpler furnace burner unit which is easily servicable, then to worry about warranties.

Please keep posting on this subject - 

Thanks

Duc


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## Live Oak

Although folks are burning B100 biodiesel or homebrew bio and getting by with good results, I think it should be reminded that nearly all the diesel engine manufacturers authorize the use of B5. B5 can be used with no issues at all and more than a few manufacturers such as Diamler Chrysler and John Deere are delivering their vehicles and equipment fueled up with B5. Off the record it is pretty much conventional wisdom that diesel fuel with up to B20 can be used with good results but none of the manufacturers are authorizing it on record. The big problem with biodiesel is that it is a very good solvent and will disolve the accumulated crud built up in the fuel system causing filters to clog and higher concentrations of biodiesel can attack or deteriorate rubber seals and other components not designed for use with biodiesel. For example........fuel injector pumps (which are about $1,000 to $1,200 dollars for our Cummins powered pickups!) 

That issue aside, I think the idea of mass manufacturing as much biodiesel as possible is a down right common sense idea being that last year's carry over of soy beans was over 3 billion pounds. A biodiesel market would create a demand market for our farmers who struggle to sell them in the $6 range if they are lucky. Almost not worth their effort. Millions of acres of idle farm land now enrolled in CRP and drawing DCP payments could be put into production and incentive payments to farmers could and SHOULD be paid to grow beans as opposed to letting the land set idle. 

In my opinion the oil companies should be forbidden to conduct ANY activities in the biodiesel sector market which I think would bring some MUCH welcome competition to the energy market. We have the capacity to make ALL diesel B20 right now. Reducing oil imports by 20% would be a HUGE first step. 

Some benefits of biodiesel are its superior lubrication properties. Adding 1% biodiesel to petro-diesel increases the lubricity of the fuel 65%. Some other follow on benefits would be a decrease in the price of animal feeds due to the huge increase of soy bean meal and by product supply from pressing so many more beans. 

Bottom line is that I MUCH prefer my money to stay here in the states and add to our economy and standard of living as opposed to sending it to people who hate us and are not reliable.


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## Live Oak

Almost forgot to mention that biodiesel has a higher cetane value (approx. 50 cetane and ASTM Standards specify 47 centane) which makes our diesel engines run quieter and smoother. Not to mention the french fry aroma exhaust!


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## Archdean

We are sitting here trying to make nice and convince each other about the virtues of Bio something or other and what a tremendous contributation we can make to Humanity if only the rest of the world would listen to our wisdom!!

The facts are we are not the problem and while I agree with your virtous attempts!!

This my friends IS THE PROBLEM and world wars have started with much less!!

Reality is King in this discussion!!

Look at the have and the have-nots!!

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/Archdean/earthlights.jpg">


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## ducati996

> _Originally posted by Archdean _
> *!!
> 
> Look at the have and the have-nots!!
> 
> *


* 

Honestly, I think about them as much as they probably think about me  

But right now I like the idea of alternative sources. My neighbor uses solar panels that basically negate any of his usuage of electricity from our ultility company. Highest rates in the country if not tied for first (CA). He used his AC all summer long and didnt pay a dime for it. Granted the capital investment is big, but with all types of rebates, it reduces it enough to make it worthwhile in my book. It gives you a choice or alternative which is better than not having one.*


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## ducati996

> _Originally posted by Chief _
> *
> 
> 
> In my opinion the oil companies should be forbidden to conduct ANY activities in the biodiesel sector market which I think would bring some MUCH welcome competition to the energy market. We have the capacity to make ALL diesel B20 right now. Reducing oil imports by 20% would be a HUGE first step.
> 
> *


* 

I thank you for this info and couldnt agree with you more. In order for it to be a success, it has to be totally out of the hand of the Big oil supply and distribution channels. It is amazing the rhetoric you hear on this subject, and especially when the prices were rising - those for it and those against it. It needs to be allowed to develop to its full potential. Let it speak for itself and keep the agendas out of it...

I honestly dont know why the cooking grease is such a important ingrediant - is this for the small production amounts? and how much grease do you need to make an noticable amount? Where do the raw soy beans fit in the development steps? 

Sorry for the questions*


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## ducati996

> _Originally posted by Archdean _
> *We are sitting here trying to make nice and convince each other about the virtues of Bio something or other and what a tremendous contributation we can make to Humanity if only the rest of the world would listen to our wisdom!!
> 
> The facts are we are not the problem and while I agree with your virtous attempts!!
> 
> This my friends IS THE PROBLEM and world wars have started with much less!!
> 
> Reality is King in this discussion!!
> 
> Look at the have and the have-nots!!
> 
> <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/Archdean/earthlights.jpg"> *


I see a perfect opportunity for you Dean to use the orange lawn mower and a PTO generator and help light up those dark areas - providing they arent sleeping - LOL :furious: 

(Im just kidding with ya))


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## Archdean

> _Originally posted by DixieTom _
> *Deanie, did you get lost in a bit vat of Jaso22's biofuel or did you stub your toe when you fell off your orange riding mower tripping over that wooden nickel? F-I-N-A-L-L-Y, the pompous a$$ gets his ticket punched and hides away from the forum!
> 
> I say, GO BIO ALL THE WAY!
> 
> Love to hear your insight and info on the subject, Evan!
> -tom *


Must be addressed now in a straight forward manner!!

FYI I do not, nor have I ever hidden from anyone, my absence can be explained by someone other than me!

I have been called worse than a pompous a$$ by lesser men!!

Deanie, was and is a personal name known only to a few , some have used it with a good connotation and some do not! The difference is readily apparent !! And I support your ill mannered right to use it, if it makes you feel bigger!

I might add that this thread is thought provoking and bringing out the very best that TF can offer, Like Duc, I too want it to expand, all humor accepted good or bad!!

Name calling is not appropriate under any circumstances in any discussion involving thinking adults !!

Thank you for letting me clarify that point!
Dean


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## Live Oak

> _Originally posted by ducati996 _
> *I honestly dont know why the cooking grease is such a important ingrediant - is this for the small production amounts? and how much grease do you need to make an noticable amount? Where do the raw soy beans fit in the development steps?
> 
> Sorry for the questions *


Joe,

Cooking grease such as the recovered used grease from restaurants is important in the respect that it is FREE. It is a big boon for the folks making the home made biodiesel or SME (soy methyl ester) Soybeans fit into the equation because they are the most widely grown plant material SME can be made from. The best grades of biodiesel are made from rapeseed RME and canola CME which is grown more in Canada and Europe. Corn oil makes the least desirable bio. Biodiesel can also be made from animal fats as well.

In a nutshell, to make the vegetable oil usable as a ready substitute for petro-diesel, it must first under go a process called transesterification. A process for the most part in which the glycerin is removed from the oil. This link covers this topic much better than I can. 

Biodiesel Basics 

There are kits out there that make this process a very easy and basic process to make your own SME but the cost in my opinion is not justified unless you make massive amounts and share it amongst a group. The pay back time is much shorter this way. Processing SME on an industrical mass scale is the answer.


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## ktm rider

Archdean,
I have seen that picture many times and I hate to tell you but that picture has been proven to be a fake. Although it is pretty cool.


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## Archdean

> _Originally posted by ktm rider _
> *Archdean,
> I have seen that picture many times and I hate to tell you but that picture has been proven to be a fake. Although it is pretty cool. *


Support your claim ! Snopes says no!!


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## ktm rider

I can't recall where I found that info. But from what I recall about it is quite simple. 
common logic will tell you that if it is nightime in the U.S. then it is in fact daytime somwhere else on earth. 
Also, how did the satelite take one single picture of the complete earth since the earth is round? 
Not to mention it is VERY hard to believe that there is ZERO cloud cover on the entire earth when that Picture was taken.

Sure, it could be a series of pictures taken over a 24 hour period but then when the lights are shining in the U.S. chances are 95% of the lights in China are not on. ( since it would be daytime there.) So, this picture would show the power consumption of earth at one certain time X 2 . 

From my Snopes search all I could find was a reference to this pic being the pic that was doctored to falsely show the east coast blackout. It doesn't say that this pic was in fact real to begin with. 

That is the jist of what I read about this picture. Still a cool pic either way though.


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## Archdean

This pic is a composite that was assembled by NASA ! To show the energy consumption of the developed world, I'm familiar with the doctored east coast blackout!! This isn't that and I try hard not to have my aviation background called into question! 

I was given credit for posting a good fake ( fooled many, includeing me ) in the past and believe me I have since checked what I present in my name at all sites I participate on!!

I trust that you enjoy sparring as much as I respect your efforts!!

Touché™

Dean


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## ktm rider

I'm not saying it is the east coast black out pic. I was just saying this was the pic that was doctored to make the blackout pic. 
I'm not calling your aviation backround into question. 

I worked on the flight deck of a carrier and have nothing but respect for aviators. Although I think they are a little off their rocker to even think about trying to land on a pitching deck in the dead of night. :worthy: 


I enjoyed the discussion.


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## Archdean

* I enjoyed the discussion. *[/QUOTE] 

And so did I!! 

Here's hoping we can have many more!!

We need more spirited thinking posters exactly like you who have the maturity to realize that our asses are outties not innies!!  tiphat


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## Eddinberry

Greetings Gents!!!

Quite the entertaining and informative Forum y'all got here!!!

Got a question however.

Just had a Bio diesel plant open up here locally, and have been thinking of seling the 2500HD Chevy and picking up an 07' with the Diesel(Isuzu) Mill.

The new on road vehicle regs seem to have everything choked up,
and the new S15 Dino fuel seems to be on the ugly side in older Tractors.

Who is gonna pay for all the conversions to and increased maint from, either the S-15 or Bio diesel???

I ain't liking either option too well right now.

I have three tractors that will need tweaking sooner or later, and I ain't exactly flush enough, to just go dump a couple hundred grand on tractors and irrigation pumps.

I suppose I'll invest in a bunch of fuel filters, injector seals etc. to have on hand and try Bio. The S-15 phase in has already started around here.

I wonder how much Agco stock is gonna climb, come next year .

Stay safe!!
Eddinberry


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## Ernie

> _Originally posted by Chief _
> *Joe,
> 
> Cooking grease such as the recovered used grease from restaurants is important in the respect that it is FREE. It is a big boon for the folks making the home made biodiesel or SME (soy methyl ester) Soybeans fit into the equation because they are the most widely grown plant material SME can be made from. The best grades of biodiesel are made from rapeseed RME and canola CME which is grown more in Canada and Europe. Corn oil makes the least desirable bio. Biodiesel can also be made from animal fats as well.
> 
> In a nutshell, to make the vegetable oil usable as a ready substitute for petro-diesel, it must first under go a process called transesterification. A process for the most part in which the glycerin is removed from the oil. This link covers this topic much better than I can.
> 
> Biodiesel Basics
> 
> There are kits out there that make this process a very easy and basic process to make your own SME but the cost in my opinion is not justified unless you make massive amounts and share it amongst a group. The pay back time is much shorter this way. Processing SME on an industrical mass scale is the answer. *


Randy, I think that the thought of free is on its way out except in small town America. It has caught on in most cities that their waste cooking grease is a valuable commodity. Most recyclers charge to pick up and dispose of this commodity and now are starting to try and reap more profits from the bio community. While I agree that we need to keep the big oil co's out of the loop but their labs and refinierys nare need to get the bio out in a mass quanity which will mean that the cost will not be any cheaper than what fossil fuels being used today are. Or we can rely upon the european and asian nations to develop it as in fossil fuel and our dependency will still be in others hands. 

The real shame is that this country is not the strong leader of industry nor technology anymore as we have gotten lazy and become a kept nation......


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## Live Oak

I agree Ernie, the free veggie oil cat is out of the bag and the greed has set in. The sad reality is the biofuels will not get much more than lip service until the price of petro fuels are so high that it becomes impractical to use them. I still think the BIG benefit of the biofuels is that our money stays here in the US and in our economy as opposed to going overseas to people who hate us. 

For the time being biodiesel is only practical to use in mixtures up to 20% or B20. Most manufactures will warranty the use of B5 or 5% biodiesel. Even at 5% the benefits of biodiesel will be very pronouced in increase lubricity with the soon to come ULSD to be introduce in 2007. Using more that B20 in most diesels now will cause problems with seals and fuel system materials. Once this issue is addressed with manufactures providing upgrades, biodiesel will be very desirable to use in higher concentrations.


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## Fordfarm

I dunno - I just can't bring myself to run ANYTHING Diesel! 

As far as crazy aviators and flight decks........never did a trap on a carrier, but we had several jet jocks on board when we "beat the air into submission". EVERY one lost his lunch (made them clean up, too!)! Mach 2 is one thing, but 200 knots NAPOE, wheels in the grass, dodging trees is nothing for the faint of stomach.......

I guess JP4 and JP5 COULD be classified as Diesel....sort of.....


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## ktm rider

> _Originally posted by Fordfarm _
> *
> I guess JP4 and JP5 COULD be classified as Diesel....sort of..... *


I was wondering the same thing. It sure smelled like diesel. 
I was always a big misconception by the " boot campers" that just got on the deck that it was HIGHLY fammable. Then some smart a$$ would always gather the boot campers around a 5 gallon bucket filled with JP 5 and put his cigarette out in it !mg: 

It was always fun watching them take off running !!


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## Live Oak

JP-5 is use almost exclusively by the Navy and Marines for use aboard ship because of its flame retardant properties. JP-4 used to be used as a general aviation fuel by the Army and others but it IS VERY flamable. It is for the most part never used by the military anymore and has been phased out and replace with JP-8 or Jet A -1 which is a kerosene based fuel. JP-5 is for the most part highly refined #1 diesel or kerosene but JP-4 or Jet B is a formulation of naptha, kerosene, and gasoline. 

During the Gulf war we used JP-5 because we flew the ship to shore mission and the Navy would not allow us to land on board ship unless we were fueled with JP-5. I prefered burning JP-5 because it actually burn slightly cooler as far as EGT's go and is gave us about 12 - 15% better fuel economy.


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## ktm rider

> _Originally posted by Chief _
> .
> 
> During the Gulf war we used JP-5 because we flew the ship to shore mission and the Navy would not allow us to land on board ship unless we were fueled with JP-5. [/B]


Ahh, that expains it !! You were one of those insane guys landing on a wet pitching deck at night during a storm... :winky: lol ! ( just kidding ya ) 
The pilots thought WE were nuts for working the deck, yeah O.K. 

What ship did you fly onto? I was on the Lincoln ( CVN-72) during the Gulf War...


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## Live Oak

I flew MEDEVAC for the 45th Medical Company (Air Ambulance) in the 421st EVAC Battalion. Most of the missions I flew were to and from the Mercy and Comfort. The Mercy later pulled back and then mostly to the Comfort (T-AH 20).


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## crammy_IA

Bit of an old thread but has anyone made the move to making their own bio-diesel. I have been reading a lot about it and seems like a pretty straightforward process with some upfront costs but not a lot.


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