# Kioti intermittent gear sync issue



## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

Hi all, just looking for some thoughts to correct a nuisance issue. 

2008 Kioti DS4110 shuttleshift. 

Sometimes when I move the shuttle shift from neutral in forward or reverse it grinds a little. This usually occurs when it’s been in neutral for a while, such as when I’ve been operating the backhoe and then hop in to move it. I have a feel for when it’s going to happen now, and all I have to do is ease it gently into gear and it’s fine. The rest of the time I can do loader work for hours with no problem. In the end, it’s more of a nuisance than anything. 

Any thoughts.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Change your hydraulic filters, then extend the loader (if equipped) and the boom on the hoe and check your hydraulic level. I suspect the oil is showing full when everything is retracted, then is low when the implements are in use. You want it slightly overfull to accommodate the demand of the hoe hydraulic rams.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

Well I did just change the hydraulic filter and oil, so I know I’m good there. I have the same issue when I’m mowing and the loader is in a low position, but I’ll give what you said a try at the very least in order to rule it out.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

One other item to consider, be sure the throttle is at idle and the tractor completely stopped when shifting the shuttle.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

I always shift when it’s at a complete stop, but you’re not supposed to throttle it down when shifting. 

In general, I find it shifts without issue when it’s running steadily at a minimum 2000rpm. This makes sense because of how it was designed.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

I should note, this tractor does not have fully synchronized gears. This means you cannot shift on the fly like you would with a typical road vehicle.


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## DK35vince (Jan 22, 2006)

marc_hanna said:


> I always shift when it’s at a complete stop, but you’re not supposed to throttle it down when shifting


Who told your not supposed to throttle down.
Completely false IMO.
I have always throttled down to shift or forwards/reverse
So much smoother and easier on the clutch.

Not throttling down to Forward/reversing greatly increases clutch wear and tear.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

The owner’s manual.


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## DK35vince (Jan 22, 2006)

My Kioti DK (shuttle shift) I always throttle down to forward/reverse.
2100 hours and I have never needed the first clutch adjustment yet.
Forward/reversing under higher RPM accelerates clutch wear and makes the machine jumpy.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Something must be lost in the translation with the Kioti DS4110 manual. The shuttle clutches in that model tractor are a hydraulically actuated stack of wet discs, very similar to what is found in modern automotive automatic transmissions. 

When shuttling under power it is much like taking an automobile from forward to reverse under power. Knocks the lining loose from the discs or results in uneven wear patterns that create binding of the discs.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

At any rate, with my normal usage for loader work I'm using the foot throttle, and with mowing I'm using the hand throttle.

The issue occurs primarily at idle speed. As mentioned above, no issue at 2000+ rpm.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

For reference here is the shuttle shift assembly:










and the shuttle shaft assembly exploded:


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

After examining it, I'm thinking that maybe the clutch isn't quite disengaging enough, and there's just enough friction to keep the gears spinning in the shuttle shift assembly.


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## DK35vince (Jan 22, 2006)

RC Wells said:


> Something must be lost in the translation with the Kioti DS4110 manual. The shuttle clutches in that model tractor are a hydraulically actuated stack of wet discs, very similar to what is found in modern automotive automatic transmissions.


If I remember right the DS 4110 was available with non synchronized manual shuttle or hydraulic shuttle.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

I think the DK’s had the hydraulic version. The shop manual clearly shows a manual shuttle shift.


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## DK35vince (Jan 22, 2006)

The DK's had the synchronized manual shuttle shift.
You need to push the clutch in to forward/reverse.

The DS 4110 was available in 2 versions 
Non synchronized manual shuttle (Requires using the clutch to forward/reverse)
Or the Hydraulic shuttle (shuttle activates hydraulic wet clutch's in the transmission so you can forward/reverse without using the clutch)
The DS 4110 was the standard shuttle
The DS 4110 HS was the hydraulic shuttle


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

Fair enough. At any rate mine is the manual shuttle - I gotta clutch to shuttle shift.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

I will state up front I don't know Kioti. Don't know a DK from a DS so I won't try to convince you I know better than you what type transmission you have. 
I did read your first post way back when and my first thought was (and still is) that it's possibly nothing more than a bit of gunk buildup on one or both sides of the clutch plate facing. Tractor is operated stationary for a while, in neutral, RPM up, so engine, clutch and flywheel all get nice and warm. You decide to move the machine and step on the pedal. The clutch releases but one side of the plate takes a second or two to finally break free and let the shafts come to a stop. Add that to the possibility that maybe the synchro wear surfaces are just a bit worn and don't exactly match shaft/gear speeds like they did when it was new. You probably wouldn't notice during regular loader work because you usually come to a stop before changing direction so all gears are pretty much at the same speed and no grind will occur. 
Since you're now aware of the symptom and give the clutch a second before shifting into gear chances are you really don't have a problem.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

I think you’re correct that there’s a little sticking in the clutch. When at a complete stop, nothing in the shuttle shift should be moving, but this is where the grinding is occurring. This tells me that the input shaft is spinning when it shouldn’t be - this is possible because the two shuttle shaft gears idle when not engaged. So my guess is, that when the shift collar goes to neutral the the shuttle shaft starts to spin a little and causes the grind. When already in neutral that shuttle shaft is spinning with the forward and reverse gears idling and if there’s a little friction on the clutch, it going to continue spinning when trying to engage the shift collar.


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