# Diesel Engine Oil



## Ed Williams

It's been a few weeks snice I showed my newby ignorance of diesel tractors, so it's time to go again. When I acquired the 4000 in June I changed the engine oil and filter. I used Rotella 15w-40 diesel engine motor oil and a NH extra capacity filter. I religiously check the oil before each use. That's from previous experience with used cars and trucks. I have clocked 48 hours since the oil and filter change, and the oil on the dipstick looks brand new. I was under the impression that diesel enines turned the oil black much faster than gas engines. The NAA will turn the motor oil black in about 15 hours of operation. I am just confused on why the 4000's oil is still so prestiNE looking with those hours. Is it an indication of low compression or other issues with a diesel motorss that I am not familiar with yet? I always thought "clean" oil was a good thing in motors, but is that really the case with diesel motors? I don't know. Please share your insight.


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## Hoodoo Valley

My John Deere (diesel) is the same, and in fact remains totally clean right up to the time I drop the oil and do a change. This should be interesting to find out.


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## Bob Driver

It's probably CJ-4 rated oil... CJ came out to meet the 2007 diesel emissions standards (1st year for DPF'S). It was specifically designed to fight soot loading the oil to keep from plugging the DPF.

Good Stuff.... It's what allowed trucking fleets to go from 12,000 mile drain intervals to the current 36,000 mile for most OEM's. If you don't have a DPF, and you really miss black oil, look for CH-4.

Probably start a war here bad mouthing Rotella, but... Rotella is the #1 selling diesel oil in the U.S., but 80% of all Rotella sold is in 1 gallon jugs. It's business model is to be "Truck Stop Oil" with a huge marketing budget... When I retired, I was running the Maintenance Department for a fleet with 1,800 class-8 tractors and 4,000 trailers. I've spent $$millions on diesel oil analysis over my career. Rotella, Castrol, Valvoline, Citgo, you name it, I've tested it. Here's what I found out and I'll give it to you for *FREE.* Delo 400 was consistently the best overall in test results and the cost is about 20% less per gallon (in bulk). That was on an OTR truck fleet that ran 250,000,000 per year. Your results/opinion may vary depending on how stubborn you are....


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## bmaverick

SWEET info from all here. 

As winter approaches, I'll be switching over to 5W30 in the CUT. My last 15W40 in the CUT going forward. In the Spring, it will then be 10W30 as I've now became a Yankee.  

CJ-4 eh. I'll look at that too. SJ is in the gas engines.


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## Bob Driver

SJ is for 19 year old gasoline engines (2001 and older). Latest for gasoline engines is *SM*. Depends on how old the engine is if you really want to run SM. When they came out with SM they cut the zinc content from 1,600 ppm to 800 ppm. People started seeing cams "flat spot" in high compression engines, especially with sold lifters, and unusual wear on hardened internal parts (crankshafts). All current diesel oil (C designator) still has 1,600 ppm zinc content. Briggs and Kohler still recommend SJ...

Here's the latest API ratings
http://www.apicj-4.org/2009_ENGINE_OIL_GUIDE.pdf


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## Ed Williams

Where can you find Delo 400. I have not seen it in any of the local stores. I purchased the Rotella because it was recommended by my father in law who has run diesel tractors for 65 years and it is one of the few diesel oils in Richmond that comes in 2.5 gal jugs. Almost all the rest come in 1 gallon size. I use 8.4 qts for an oil and filter change, so I would have to buy 3 of the 1 gallon every 4 oil changes. The 2.5 gal jug is more convenient for me. 

I am new at diesels. Do you recommend the CJ-4 or the CH-4 for my 1970 Ford 4000 with the 3.3L diesel engine. I want to do things right to make the motor last. I am just learning right now. I did not know diesel antifreeze was different than gas until this forum. Got the Ford Motor craft additive for the antifreeze to help with the cavatation problem. My local Ford tractor dealer recommended adding 16 oz of the additive every 2 years for my tractor, and an antifreeze change every 2 years. Strange to me. If you use diesel antifreeze, why do you also need the additive. He said the extra protection was worthwhile to prevent sleeve damage from cavitation.


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## bmaverick

go from oil to anti-freeze in a single jump. LOL

Just use this ... (even comes in a 50/50 premix) 
https://www.peakhd.com/product/fleet-charge/sca-precharged-coolant-antifreeze 

or 

use the regular green stuff (never long life) and add the SCA yourself ... 
https://prestone.com/command/products/sca-supplemental-coolant-additives.php


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## bmaverick

Bob Driver said:


> SJ is for 19 year old gasoline engines (2001 and older). Latest for gasoline engines is *SM*. Depends on how old the engine is if you really want to run SM. When they came out with SM they cut the zinc content from 1,600 ppm to 800 ppm. People started seeing cams "flat spot" in high compression engines, especially with sold lifters, and unusual wear on hardened internal parts (crankshafts). All current diesel oil (C designator) still has 1,600 ppm zinc content. Briggs and Kohler still recommend SJ...
> 
> Here's the latest API ratings
> http://www.apicj-4.org/2009_ENGINE_OIL_GUIDE.pdf


Yep, I too drive old and used vehicles.  The more the newer vehicles get all techie, the less I want them. 

WOW. looking at the link, my Yanmar needs to run with CE when it was built. As for the CJ-4 and the added filters and stuff, how would that work on a 1981 tractor then???


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## Hoodoo Valley

Fixing to change the oil on a 1993 International DTA 360. Was kind of wondering myself, what the best oil to use for that old of an engine.


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## Bob Driver

Both NAPA and Auto Zone carry Delo 400. If not, check out the Pilot, TA, or just about any truck stop.

CJ-4 is the latest/greatest in the way of 15w40 diesel oil and what you'll find most readily available. You can run CJ-4 in *anything, *regardless of year, you just can't run the older rated oils in modern engines. The biggest advantage is that it handles soot much better than the older ratings.

Less soot = cleaner oil = longer drain intervals. I love the stuff, here's the math.... Before CJ-4, most fleets ran 12,000 mile drain intervals. With CJ-4, 36,000 became the norm. Truck averages 144,000 miles the per - 12,000 mile drain interval - 12 drains per year. $300 parts/labor per drain = $3,600 per year. Same truck - 4 drains - $1,200 per year drain interval. 1,800 trucks x $3,600 (12 drains) = $6.48M. 1,800 trucks x $1,200 (4 drains) = $2.16M.... $4.32M in reduced maintenance cost.

Ed -- The additive you're Dealer is talking about is commonly referred to as DCA (diesel coolant additive), or SCA (supplemental coolant additive). Due to combustion temperatures, most diesel engines have what is referred to as "wet sleeve" cylinder liner designs. These "liners" are removable and seal at the bottom of the block by a series of O-rings. When it's time to O/H a diesel engine, you put in new liners/pistons instead of boring the block like an automotive engine.

The coolant, under pressure from the water pump, swirls completely around the cylinder liner for each combustion chamber, unlike an automotive block also. As the coolant swirls, microscopic air bubbles will develop. These bubbles slam into the side of the cylinder liner and implode. This is referred to as cavitation. Think of millions of air bubbles, in a liquid, basically sand blasting the cast iron liners as the engine runs.

DCA's/SCA's serve two primary functions... 1) They are specifically formulated to significantly lower the "scrubbing bubbles" that implode on the cylinder liners. 2) They are specifically formulated to maintain a neutral PH balance in the coolant package (around 7 if you remember HS Chemistry). Let the bubbles, or the PH, get out of control by not properly maintaining the coolant package and you can have major problems to the point where you can crack a liner, or destroy the block.

Most OTR truck engines have had water filters for years. The DCA/SCA is built into the water filter and works/looks sorta like a Tidy Bowl pellet with a slow timed release. Most fleets run what the filter guys call a "charge filter" and it gets changed once a year. The coolant gets tested at every oil change PM (32K to 36K miles) with a litmus strip for that neutral PH. If the PH is off, then you slowly add liquid DCA/SCA to bring the coolant package PH into the neutral range.


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## Hoodoo Valley

I have a coolant filter on mine and I tested awhile back and the DCA was low on mine, but present. I need to change out the coolant and filter on mine as well.


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## Hacke

Cavitation is a problem in diesel engines because of the high compression that causes flexing cylinder walls. You need a heck of a water pump to create the pressure differences that make cavitation happen.
Great info here:
https://www.oilburners.net/articles/cavitationartic.html
https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/s...oduct_lit/asia_pacific_brochures/3300963A.pdf
https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/f..._components/cylinder_liners/kavitation_en.pdf

Ford 1000-series engine does not have wet sleeves. There has been quite a few "rotten" engines amongst these tractors and, perhaps, equal amount of suggested causes. However, it is not unknown that these engines take their time to reach working temperature, especially in cold environments. Some blame the short strokes for that.

The construction of the engine is another issue. The cavitation damages have occured in the same regions in the engines. Ford made updated reinforced blocks that were less prone to get punctured.

What you can do is:
Follow the advice regarding coolant, additives and filters.
Use distilled water (battery water).
Check your thermostat.
Make sure you have a good radiator cap (for holding the pressure).
Use a coolant heater at low temperatures.

If you are in cold environments, you could take off the radiator fan and install an electric thermostat controlled fan.


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## Bob Driver

I took over a P&D fleet once that was running 900 DT466's. I asked the Shop Foreman how often they had been changing the water filters. He said "What's a water filter"? 1st year, I spent $100,000 in radiator/heater core repairs and had to do 40 in-frame O/H's for cracked liners.... also got me a new Shop Foreman


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## Ed Williams

Guys. Thanks for all the great info. The articles on diesel engines are very informative. I really appreciate all the responses and will put the added knowledge to good use in maintaining my newly acquired diesel tractor. You all have saved me many hours of research on my own and probably thousands of dollars in repairs due to screwing it up by not knowing the differences associated with diesel enhjnes.


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## Hoodoo Valley

Wow. That was one of the first things I noticed was that coolant filter which got me thumbing through my paperwork. I'd have to look again but they need changed fairly often.


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