# Is my engine oil used in the hydraulic system?



## MarshallOwner (Nov 20, 2019)

Hi members. 
My first entry so please forgive if I'm in the wrong place.
I recently bought a smallholding and inherited an old Marshall 264 with a Lombardini engine.
It has a hydraulic front loader and a backhoe. It was not running initially but after replacing the injectors, cleaning out the system and generally servicing everything I could find, it was running well. I left it standing for a few months and when I went back to it I found that the front loader raised very slowly and with a jerky motion.
I'm a complete beginner with tractors, but thinking that I should try bleeding the hydraulics, I located the Hidroirma Hydraulic pump, and on checking further I see that the hydraulics are routed through the engines oil filter. 
On reading other articles I read that you cannot use hydraulic oil in the engine or engine oil in the hydraulics. 
When I was servicing the engine I replaced the oil with Castrol GTX so assume this is in the hydraulics. Am I being stupid here or is this correct? If its the wrong oil I'm thinking this may be the problem with the front loader?
Any assistance or information would be greatly appreciated
Many Thanks


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

https://www.midlandslubricants.co.u...il-ep80w90-axle-oil-tractor-differential-oil/
Here's some interesting reading. 
The hydraulic oil is most likely NOT run thru the engine, although the filter may look like it is part of the tractor engine.
This tractor seems to need a variety of oils, an engine oil, a suitable hydraulic oil, a specific type of fluid for the transmission, a gear oil for the rear diff. If you have put hydraulic oil in your engine, or motor oil in your hydraulics, this could very well be the reason for your problem. 
Read up on the link and you may get some good info on what you need, but you need an operators manual at the least, to service your tractor. It will tell you where, when and what to use as you preform a service.
Welcome to the forum!!


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## MarshallOwner (Nov 20, 2019)

Hi Pogobill. Many thanks for the welcome, its nice to have somewhere to go to ask for help when you have no idea what you're doing! 
I see the link and for sure this is what I thought should happen.
However, the line from the front loader ram definitely runs to the engine oil filter and from there to the front loader controls. I have an engine manual that shows that it is the engine oil filter. Also there doesn't appear to be anywhere to add hydraulic fluid, such as a fluid reservoir or the like. I'm stumped.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Looks like a few pictures are in order. My tractor ( not a Marshall) has three oil filters on it. The engine oil filter, like most engines, is attached to the engine block with no external piping to it. If you have the Lombardini 9LD561-2 engine, the engine oil filter is most likely internal and not visible until you remove it from the engine.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1012679/Lombardini-9ld561-2.html?page=41#manual
Page 41
I might be following the wrong lead, so a few photos of the filter with the hydraulic lines may help one of us determine your issue.


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## MarshallOwner (Nov 20, 2019)

Thanks so much for the reply. I do have that engine and what you're suggesting makes complete sense. I'll go back to my manual and also try to find a fluid reservoir on the tractor. Unfortunately, I cant find any documentation on the hydraulics but I'll start checking again.
Thanks again for the help


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## MarshallOwner (Nov 20, 2019)

Hi Pogobill
Attached is a photo of the pump and the filter its connected to. Obviously I had it wrong and it is a separate system. Unfortunately, despite looking everywhere for it, I cant seem to locate the hydraulic fluid reservoir amongst the multitude of pipes disappearing in, out and under the tractor! lol. I'm still having to find it to try and bleed the system. Many thanks for your help, I'll keep at it.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

There is probably a bung or big bolt head on top of the transmission between your feet, and / or a bung on the back of the rearend behind the seat. 
A few pictures may help us figure out your tractor. One of the rear end near the top, an a few along the length of the tranny, both sides and top.
Looks like these are pretty tough looking tractors.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

the larger hose coming from the filter to the pump is supply, the smaller hose on top of the pump is pressure.

go to the filter and on the opposite side of the filter there will be another hose or pipe, this will be connected to the reservoir or transmission housing, I would be more inclined to think you will have a reservoir at least at the same height as the filter so as to eliminate sucking air when trying to prime the pump.

as suggested by pogo, photos please.


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## MarshallOwner (Nov 20, 2019)

Thank you Fred. Appreciated. Unfortunately we have had constant rain and high winds in the last few days so have hibernated a bit. Will try later today or tomorrow and also take some photos. Thanks again


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## MarshallOwner (Nov 20, 2019)

Hi Fred. Thanks for your help. I took the photo's, included descriptions and added them to the attached PDF. From what you said, I checked the rearward pipe from the filter and as you suggested it went to what I think is the PTO transmission box. I included a photo of the only thing I can see that might give me access to the fluid level. Unfortunately, I cant seem to find a manual or any documentation on this. Many thanks again for your help. I hope the attached is of some use.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Marshall owner-- the last photo shows what could be the transmission filler/breather under the seat, there could be a dip stick either side of the transmission/ level plug about halfway down the side of the transmission or even a sight glass attached to the transmission.

Also in the last photo and to the right of the seat mount and in front of the lift arm there is a hex head bolt sitting on a raised section of the tranny cover, this also has white paint around the base and if this bolt is not holding anything down, this could be the dip stick, might pay you to give some visual to it.

The reservoir for the back hoe is straight forward, if there is no dip stick for that, I would keep the level around 3/4's full to allow for expansion for when the oil heats up.

The juddering you mentioned when raising the loader bucket would be from low hydraulic oil or sucking air on the suction side of the pump, there may be a filter screen in the tranny where the suction hose connects, but seeing that is a hydraulic fitting, most likely not, I would go for the oil level first.

Also check to see that the metal suction line bend to the backhoe pump is not rubbing the hoe mount and the pressure hose from the pump is not chafing against the frame, quickest thing to fracture a hydraulic hose, those pumps mounted on the PTO drive tend to jiggle around a lot.


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## MarshallOwner (Nov 20, 2019)

Thank you Fred. This is positive and much appreciated. As a real beginner, its something to work with and hopefully learn what I'm doing. In regards to the fluid, I see a lot of different adverts for them - should I get a hydraulic fluid that's also a transmission fluid, or are they the same thing?


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

you will need a suitable diesel engine oil for the engine, and a suitable trans/hydraulic fluid for the transmission, the oil suppliers should be able to come up with a recommended oil for the tran/hydraulics and check if this would be suitable for the backhoe too, save having to have lots of different oil on hand.

Tractordata.com gives some info on your 264 and I have been doing a search with not much success, probably there will be a club in the UK that probably could help with info if you want to google, Bill found a manual for the Lombardi diesel engine so that will be a good help, -- if you could cross reference the Ferrari tractor model (rebranded Marshall) of the same ilk, this may help too.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

You will need 3.5 litres of 15w40 of diesel motor oil (5W40 for colder climates. 17.6 litres of universal tractor fluid for the transmission and hydraulics. If you have any hydraulic attachments, you may need some extra fluid to fill them too. If you’re in a cold climate, there are some multigrade UTF options also that we can recommend. Post a picture of the back end of your tractor so we can see where the UTF fill tube is. If it’s not there it might also be under the seat.


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## MarshallOwner (Nov 20, 2019)

Many thanks both for the replies. Marc, included a PDF with photos in my post above.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

That looks like your fill tube for the hydraulic fluid under the seat. Your backhoe, as you likely have already figured out has an independent hydraulic system that is driven by the PTO. I couldn't see the engine oil fill cap in your pics, but I found this:










Also, here is a link to the workshop manual for your engine:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1012679/Lombardini-9ld561-2.html#manual


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## MarshallOwner (Nov 20, 2019)

Hi everyone, lots to get on with now and I'll see how I get on. Many thanks for the support, much appreciated.


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