# What tires to go with on st16



## kaylkameron (Sep 8, 2014)

I'm trying to decide what tires to go with for my st16. I have narrow bar tires on it now because that's what came on it but I want new. Should I find another set of rims and make duals or go with the monsters out at my local tsc 23x10.5-12. Or will those even fit on stock rims. I've got pictures of mine now below.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

The 23-10.50-12s will work on your rims,but,if you're getting the ag(bar ) treads,mount them so the center of the rim is closer to the tractor,so they have clearance .


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## kaylkameron (Sep 8, 2014)

OK thank you glad I have that info


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## kaylkameron (Sep 8, 2014)

So would I turn them the opposite way than they are now


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

You want the ag bars the way they are,but the rims should have the shallow side in Most rims have an offset,and this gives them a deep side,and a shallow side.
The ag tires,(the tread pattern you now have) are a directional tread,and should be mounted the way they are,now,so they pull better.


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## ftorleans1 (Jul 12, 2009)

As mentioned above, Have the Ag tires mounted with the shallow side of the rim facing the transaxle. Keep in mind, You will have a left and right tire! If mounted correctly, The right tire will face the wrong way if installed on the left and vice versa for the left.

If you take your tires to a shop to have them mounted, Make sure the person doing the work understands this. Otherwise, You will find yourself going back to have the tires turned around. Best to you!!! Love the older Sears tractors!!!


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## kaylkameron (Sep 8, 2014)

Yeah me too can't wait to get them mounted and to start plowing


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## kaylkameron (Sep 8, 2014)

Hey guys look at these two pictures I'm pretty sure my wheels are already turned in I switched them today and they are way closer


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

I'm no expert on garden tractors. The rims you have look like 5" wide ones rather than the standard 7" wide that came on the later tractors and those with 23x10.50-12 tires. If you put wide tires on what looks to be 5" wide rims, they're going to really bulge in the middle.

I would not run dual wheels unless I wanted flotation in deep mud. If you're going to be plowing, the tires have to run in the furrow, and dual wheels will prevent that. Additionally, things work a bit differently in the dirt. Wider tires and or dual wheels do not necessarily give better traction. Wide/dual wheels give flotation. 

In my limited experience, wider tires have given me less traction. I have three identical tractors 'cause they're cheap, and I have a lot of spare parts. This gives me a rather nice benchmark for comparison. Two of these tractors have R-1 tires aka _"bar" or "lug" tires._

Tractors are 1987 GT18, 1989 GT18, and 1991 GT6000, which was the GT20 in the late 1980s. 
















The one with homemade wheel weights is the 1989 and the one with TruPowers and the mono beam headlight is the 1991 GT6000. Both these obviously have R-1 on the rear and F-2 on the front. The "F-2" tire is also known as _"tri" or "triple-rib."_

Both the tractors with R-1 _"bar type tires,"_ have ballast in them, so each tire weighs about 100 lbs 'cause there's roughly 65 - 70 lbs of ballast inside the tire.









**Note* in the photo below that the tires on the right (Goodyear 23x10.50-12) are not only narrower, but also have a more rounded profile while the Tru-Power tires (23x10.50-12) on the left have a much flatter profile. When I run across a hard surface with wet tires, the Tru-Powers leave a much wider footprint. I'd guess that they're at least 2 inches wider due to the tire being slightly wider and having a significantly flatter profile. 









Where I'm going with this rather wordy post is that the tractor with the narrower and more rounded profiled Goodyear tires doesn't get stuck near as easy, and it pulls noticeably better than the Carlisle Tru-Powers. 

The reason is due to the Goodyear's thinner tire gives it more pounds per square inch of ground pressure. Also, because it's more rounded, the center of the tire bites into the dirt deeper rather than spreading the load out like the flatter Tru-Power tires do. The moral of the story is thinner rounded tires on these small tractors often pull/plow/harrow/cultivate better in the dirt due to having higher ground pressure, and it's _always_ been my experience that these things will break traction before running out of power. I ballast these inexpensive rather dated tractors with 200 - 700 lbs of cast iron ballast in addition to the 120 - 140 lbs of liquid ballast and chains, yet they break traction rather than stalling the engine. I use diamond pattern studded reinforced ATV chains.









If after reading my rather verbose post, you'd still like to go with wider tires, it looks like you'll have to find new wider wheels. It's my understanding that the Firestone 23° tires pull the best in the garden and soft dirt, but I've no experience. Both my Goodyears and Carlisles were made in the USA, so they're both wider and taller than the imported from Asia types. 

I have no experience with the Asian tires due to losing my factory job because of foreign imports. Both my parents and innumerable friends also lost their jobs for the same reason. Naturally, the cities and towns around me have been devastated from the deindustrialization, so I buy made in the USA when it is available. You do what you like with your money. I'm not the sort of sod to tell another how to spend their money. However, my caveat is that like _most_ imported items, they don't usually live up to what they're touted as. In this case, I think that a photo is worth a thousand words. 

Imported tractor tire on left, made in the USA Firestone 23° tire on right for comparison. Both tires are labeled 23x10.50-12









If you ballast your narrow tires and put proper or homemade wheel weights on your tractor, the improvement will be shocking. 

If you purchase the imported tires at the local Tractor Supply Company, they may work on your current rims 'cause they're smaller than American made tires. I doubt it, but if you do it by hand, all you're going to lose is your time.

I change my tires at home. I use the vice to break the beads, and tire irons to do the rest. It doesn't cost much at the local garage though. *Note 320lbs of ballast below the vice, and keep in mind, that's in addition to what's already on the tractor. 









During my experiments, both tractors had equal ballast and were being worked in the same conditions. Do not let the weights on the one tractor make you jump to the conclusion that it pulled better 'cause it had more ballast. I just threw some random photos together for our thread. 

I hope this helped, good luck with your decision, and thank you for reading.

Cheers,
bolillo_loco


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## ftorleans1 (Jul 12, 2009)

Excellent post Bolillo!!!

As you have mentioned, The idea that wider tires will give better traction greatly depends on what type of surface to are trying to navigate. It can sometimes be very hard for folks to grasp the concept that a wider tire will actually decrease traction depending on the surface type and condition. A narrower tire will always offer better traction on surfaces which have a slight amount of loose dirt or mud. 

It truly is all about tire pressure being applied to the surface. A narrower tire properly weighted will pull much better than a wider tire with the same amount of weight due to the pressure applied to the surface being navigated! For example, All one has to do is view some of the old movie films which show vehicles like the model A traveling along an unimproved road. You will see all of the deep narrow ruts from the narrower tires and yet those old cars kept moving. If you took a modern vehicle with modern tires and tried traveling those same roads, You would find yourself needing to be winched in a hurry!

The wider tires prevent sinking in VERY loose soil like wet grass on clay or in soft sand. Soft sand is where the narrower tire would fail as compared to the wider tire. At the same time, The Bar lug or Ag lug offers the greatest traction in loose sand. It's the PSI off force being applied to the surface that dictates traction.

On a hard solid surface like concrete or asphalt, The Multi-Trac or Turf Tread tire will always surpass the Bar lug or Ag lug there again due to the amount of force being applied to the amount of surface contact area.

JMO, Stick with American built tires. Yes, they can be a lot more expensive however, In more cases, They'll far outlast the cheap Asian counterparts. The Asian tires for the most part, Use a much cheaper compound which leads to dry rot far quicker than American built tires!

I as probably many folks here at the forum have multiple tires on my equipment which are 20 to 35 years old that have dry checking and yet the tires hold air without tubes. With Asian tires, You will more than likely be adding tubes after a couple years and after 5 to 7 years, The tubes will start squeezing out between the dry rot cracks of those tires. Like they say, You get what you pay for!!!

Another thing with the cheaper tires, Most if not all of them have a shallower tread on the tire. Therefore, You will NOT have the traction which the American tire will provide!!! 

Having a small stash of different tire/wheel combinations will provide you with much more satisfaction if you travel different types of soil and different degrees of moisture content of that soil.


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

Thank you *ftorleans1*. This is what I like about forums, sometimes they come together and form complementary posts. 

What *ftorleans1* has pointed out enhances what I posted, and now I'd like to return the favor. 



ftorleans1 said:


> I as probably many folks here at the forum have multiple tires on my equipment which are 20 to 35 years old that have dry checking and yet the tires hold air without tubes.


I was told my Goodyears were purchased in the mid - late 1970s. From the late 1980s through 2010, they sat unused and and unmounted in the basement. These were given to me, and they were rather abused, but with good tread. One had to be tubed because whomever dismounted the tires was rather barbaric and they ruined one of the beads 'cause whatever they used to pry the tires off the rims left huge gashes in the beads. I'm surprised the one holds air 'cause they were that bad. These tires do not have checking yet, and they're not bad for a pair of forty year old tires. 









As was touched on by me, and expanded by *ftorleans1*, conditions where flotation is needed. In the following photo, the tractor's sitting atop 2' of accumulated snowfall. Had the tractor been equipped with narrow tires, I'd not have been able to go any place. Don't let me misinform you. While the tractor could run on top of several storms worth of accumulated snow, it couldn't pull very much. I could load the cart with 1 heaping load of wood from a 6 cubic foot wheelbarrow, and it would go from the pile to the house, but that was the limit. 









Closer view of the chains









*Note the wear pattern on the tread in the next photo. The last 2" of the cleats are not being used on a hard surface. The Goodyears in the photo only print about a 5 - 6" pattern on the garage floor, which is why they probably pull much better on soft surfaces than the Carlisle Tru-Power R-1, which _nearly_ prints the entire 10 inches of tread on concrete and macadam. 









Ballast for the condition will always be the key for making these tractors useful little labor savers. I used what I had on hand. I used to lift weights, so...









Thanks for reading,
bolillo_loco


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

*Kaylkameron*:

I hope I didn't put you off. What you could do is keep an eye peeled on craigslist, go to your local mower junkyard, or purchase a new set of 12x7 wheels, pick up a set of wider tires new or used, and then you'll have a set of wide and narrow wheels. As *ftorleans1* has pointed out, it's rather nice to have different wheelsets for a variety of applications. It's why I have more than one tractor. They're cheap enough for me on my shoestring budget to have more than one on hand.

I'm going to _stress_ ballasting the tires again. Enough words cannot be said about filling the tires with ballast, and hanging weight onto the tractor. It does wonders for them literally changing them from beached whales into mountain goats. 

Good luck with your decisions,
bolillo_loco


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## kaylkameron (Sep 8, 2014)

Ended up getting some 12-6


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

kaylkameron said:


> Ended up getting some 12-6


Photos... Photos... We'd like some photos!

Cheers,
bolillo loco


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## kaylkameron (Sep 8, 2014)

Ok will do


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## kaylkameron (Sep 8, 2014)

Hey guys here's those try powers


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

WOW,kaylkameron ! That's a lot of unsprung weight !
I really don't like putting weight on the back,in that manner,as the axles are really stressed,and can bend,or break.
I had this happen on one of my older Sears II tractors. Wheel weights are ok,as is tire ballasting, but weight boxes are something I avoid,now.
I plan on running ag tread, 23-12-6's on my Bolens,for plowing my garden,come spring,and I'll use inner tubes,with ballast,and wheel weights.


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## skunkhome (Nov 30, 2008)

I like the tire you got. They will probably be the best for plowing as they will easily fit into the furrow and not roll the ground you turned on the last pass back into the furrow. When your pulling a 10" bottom anything over 8.50" is getting a bit too wide to fit the furrow.


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

*Kaylkameron*:

Thank you for the photos! 

I like the improvised weights. I sometimes find my homemade weights a little too wide to fit through trees. Before I had more than one tractor, I left the weights on while cutting grass. Where I'm going with this is that I'd forget that they hung out beyond the width of the deck, and I'd frequently crack something. I brought the wood pile down on myself once. 

I have poles around the yard that serve as property markers. The extended weights make it nice to trim around the poles. I get against the marker with the shaft holding on the weights, and I slowly ease forward. It stops the inside tire, and it goes around the pole like an old U/C model airplane on a string. 

*skunkhome* has brought up some rather valid issues with tire width.

cheers,
bolillo_loco


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

Yes,he did. As a matter of fact it reminded me that I had left the rims for the 6" tires,in Michigan .
I'll have to use the 8.50's,instead.


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## kaylkameron (Sep 8, 2014)

Hey guys placed first In my class today all the other mowers pulled 20 40 feet with 2500lbs on the sled I pulled 160ft with my bar tires and weights then later tonight night I went to my buddies and he had an extra set of rims so I put my old tires on them and he also had the rings to space them out a great $30 I spent I've got duels now


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

There's plenty of room to add asymmetric brakes.

cheers,
bolillo


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## kaylkameron (Sep 8, 2014)

Ended up finding wider rims so I got wider tires


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## bolillo_loco (Oct 9, 2010)

Well, now that I see you do several things with your tractor I'd never thought of, and with the newer wider set of tires, you've got several tire/wheel combinations to run now for a myriad of applications. It's why I keep more than one inexpensive tractor. That way I can just grab the right one for a specific task. Storage is the price paid for the convenience though.

Thanks for the photos,
bolillo


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