# engine for my z



## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

can't do any work outside so i brought in this engine off a g4 combine to get ready for my z


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

here it is with valve covers and crankcase plate off. everything checked out good just need to roll the tractor in and put the engine in after changing flywheels


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

heres the whole pic this time i hope.


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## johnbron (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bear _
> *heres the whole pic this time i hope. *



:smoking: Yup, Whole picture this time.

How Odd, This is the first time that I remember ever seeing an engine with a crankcase side-plate cover. Sure makes for easy access to to work on the bottom end.


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

Yea thats easy access and thats some long rocker arms.


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## caseman-d (Nov 29, 2003)

Bear,
You goingt to have that thing running by the time I get there   . Will send you an email with travel plans. Looks like it is good and clean inside. I got one of them projects to do to but I will have to do mine out side. Think I'll wait till after I get back home to do mine.
caseman-d


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

That is one STRANGE engine. Any other shots of it? Seems like the cylinders are angled to the right side, is there a removable head on that side? Valve placement strange also. You doing a rebuild on it? I would LOVE to see that baby torn apart.


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

bear,,,is that an L Head?


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

the valves lay flat across the top of the engine. there is a flathead on the other side of the engine. its all back together ready to go in but i'll get a pic of the other side today for you


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

here is a pic of the head side of the engine


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## Stewart (Sep 17, 2003)

Looks like you have engines out of more than one project! You have quite a bit of room to work. Let us know how it turns out!:cheers:


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

Definitely not an L Head, but an interesting looking engine.


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

the cylynders lift off just above the mm sign i'll tear the one down out of the tractor and show some pics of it apart


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

had some time lately so i got the engine running yesterday on acetylene from torch set. it ounded good so i cleaned up carburator put on a small gas tank and 5 gal pail with botom hose for a radiator. ran it for about 15-20 minutes sounded good oil pressure good just need to get the tractor in one of these days and swap engines. will keep you all posted when anymore progress takes place


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## Rodster (Sep 26, 2003)

Hi
That is an interesting looking engine.
Rodster


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Adjusting the valves on that engine looks to be an interesting task. Is is very difficult? I like how just about everything is accessible from the side.


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

adjusting the valves is about the same as other engines except your working from the side


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

had some spare time last night heres the z waiting for its new engine


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

on its way in


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

front end is gone engine ready to come off


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## Chipmaker (Sep 16, 2003)

I have to agree with everyone else. You have a very strange looking engine there...I have seen some weird configurations in my life but that engine beats all I have ever seen. How many horses and how much displacement?


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

we got problems, iknew we would have to change flywheels but the crankshafts are different flywheels won't interchange. cylynders have the same casting numbers so we'll tear the tractor engine down and put the cylynders of the running engine onto the crankcase of the tractor engine......maybe?. hopefully it will work. had to tuck it in a corner this morning. needed more shop space for customers. have to pay the bills somehow


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

chipmaker its 185 ci tractor is rated at 26 drawbar hp


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

had some time yesterday got the tractor engine tore down it is badly rusted inside 2 valves rusted right off and one piston has a hole rusted through it. pics of the rust didn't turn out but heres the engine with out the cylynders


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

rocker arms they are held in place by the bolts holding the cylynder to the block. they run off the camshaft to the valve


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

cylynders/heads laying on the floor. the plan is to take the the cyl/heads with pistons and rods off the running engine and put them on the block that came out of the tractor have to measure the cranks yet and check a few other things but hopefully its all going to work


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## memmurphy (Sep 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bear _
> *had some time yesterday got the tractor engine tore down it is badly rusted inside 2 valves rusted right off and one piston has a hole rusted through it. pics of the rust didn't turn out but heres the engine with out the cylynders *


Sounds like the crankcase and flywheel was about the only salvageable part left. Hope it works out for you Bear.  

Mark


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## Dieselbear (May 30, 2004)

I'm used to seeing and working on these motors, It seems funny to me to here the rest of you all talk about how funny they are. The R's, ZT, ZA, ZB's all had the same type motors. They only had sudtail differences. Alot of the parts will interchange.
Glenn


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

I've never worked on big tractors, so all I can say is that sure is a LOT of cast iron there. I hope you can get it back together working with no more surprises.


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

i have the newer combine engine 5" stroke 1/2 inch longer than the z engine. the rod is 1/4 inch longer other than that everything is the same should be no more surprises. just need more hours in a day customer jobs keep interfering with my toy time although i did manage to get out and buy some more goodies the other day


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## Dieselbear (May 30, 2004)

If you have the later motor, then it is the same as a ZA. It will bump up the cubes to 206.
Glenn


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

glen, i'm using the zt crank and block 185 ci and the rods out of the 206 engine. the old zt engine was 4 1/2" stroke the 206 is 5" so 1/4" much be in the throw of the crank. i'm actually only gaining 1/4" should put me about 195


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

it rained most of the day and after completing everything i had to get done it was time for the z again. engine is back on the tractor and was running before supper today. have to put on the front end yet then flush the rear end and transmission and install some new rear tires. harvest will likely get in the way of toy time but we'll see what happens tomorrow its supposed to rain all day again


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

heres a shot of it right after the initial startup couldn't get camera to load picks earlier.


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## memmurphy (Sep 18, 2003)

I see your black-haired buddy is checking over your craftsmanship.  

Looks like a plenty of work yet but I'm glad to hear you got it running. 

Mark


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

got to spend a little time on it this weekend its coming along rad leaked a little solder fixed that checked the fuel tank the back end and bottom only had the paint holding it together so its getting a tank inside the original. heres what it looked like suppertime sunday


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## bow66tie (Oct 22, 2004)

*Still working on your Z?*

I just found this thread and found your discussion here very interesting! I'm in the process of restoring a '47 ZTU so you might imagine my interest here. 

The engine was stuck when I purchased it about two months ago and found the # 2 cyl was the problem. We have tore her down and realized that I would need to replace one cylinder block. It's ironic that my parts guy found a head in your neck of the woods. It's being shipped as I type, along with main and rod bearings. The crank is at a local machine shop being ground down .20 and should be ready anyday.

My whole point of replying here is to check on your status. I am very interested in having you continue to update us on your overhaul. If interested, I'll share my details as well.

Respectfully,

Michael in Oregon
'47 MM ZTU (206 ci)


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

Welcome Michael :friends: Your old 47 looks to be in good shape. Keep us posted on how its coming along.


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

welcome michael nice looking tractor. we'd love to hear all about it and your progress with it. between harvest and searching for a axle clamp for mine i haven't really made any progress on mine. i have found a clamp it just a matter of getting it likely by monday then its time to finish prepping the body and spray some paint on it. good luck with yours we all look forward to hearing more about it.


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## bow66tie (Oct 22, 2004)

Thanks for the welcome Jody and Bear.

I got a chance to tinker this afternoon and got the rotors off and poured a couple of gallons of diesel in the transmission case to begin cleaning 57 years worth of build up out. This tractor is in great shape all things considerd, but it'll still be a while until I have it restored as close to new as I can. This is what she looks like today.

I'll post information next week after I recieve the new block and bearings.

Michael


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

Michael it looks different when its all in pieces If your like me i bet you cant wait to get all back together and running.


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## bow66tie (Oct 22, 2004)

Jody,

The one thing that stands out as my most anticipated moment is when I get to start it for the first time. I have no idea what it sounds like. Actually, I think I've dreamt about it, and in my dream, it was the coolest tractor sound ever!!!

Talk with you next week.

Michael


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

i can remember when mine looked like that one day you'll get to it run. and your right doesn't matter how many tractors you do that first startup of a project has you grinning like a kid at christmas


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

heres what the z looked like when we got it. it was only 3 miles away and this was before we even had a trailer


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## bow66tie (Oct 22, 2004)

Bear,

We were fortunate. Nothing was stripped off our Z. The only item missing, was the exhaust pipe. My guess is that it rusted off a long time ago.

I received the replacement block, which is at the machinist being honed, checked for cracks, magnafluxed, and I received the .20 over/under main and rod bearings last week. Now were looking for valves and springs. I can't wait to get her put back together. I have to make myself be patient. And let me tell you, that's not an easy task. 

My goal is to be completely restored by the fourth of July, so I can drive my own antique tractor in the local parade. I just can't wait!!!!!!!

I'll let you know how things are progressing.

Michael


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## SolidJunk (Oct 11, 2004)

If you are still in need of valves, and you are not a restoration "rivet counter" I highly recommend small block Chevy valves. The exhaust valves from smC's work great for intake and ex. I think the diameter of the head has to be turned to make them work, but the stem is the right length and diameter. Also the Chevy valves are easier to get and if you install hardened seat you can run regular pump gas.

Hope this helps

Joe


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## bow66tie (Oct 22, 2004)

Joe,

Thanks for the suggestion. My parts guy has a set of valves in his possession, so it's not a problem getting those, nor are they spendy. Right now we're looking for piston rings .05 oversize if they exist. Measuring the bore, they came to 3.66 after cleaning up. The standard size was 3 5/8, so that's the only questionable item for now. (I repeat, for now)

I'm always up for suggestions, tips and ideas. This is my first antique tractor, so you can imagine the learning curve.

Michael


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

Welcome aboard Michael(bow66tie), Joe(SolidJunk) and Ken(Bulletthead)...Glad to see a few other tractor enthusiasts joining the ranks:thumbsup:


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## bulletthead (Nov 24, 2004)

*MM UTU*

Here is a picture of my UTU with a little snow from last night. Ken


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## bow66tie (Oct 22, 2004)

Thanks for the welcome Randy.

Hey Bullethead, there's no photo attached to your message.

For those following my restoration, we had a tragedy a couple of weeks ago. My parts guy, Chuck Postma of Lynden WA, passed away. He had been battling cancer and lost his fight. I never actually met him in person, but I recognized the fact that he was a true gentleman. He was from the old school days where a promise made was a promise kept. He trusted me based on my word. You don't find that often these days as there always seems to be someone out to take advantage of you. Trust is a hard thing to do. Chuck Postma was all about antique tractors!

I'm fortunate enough that while in the hospital he arranged for his brother to pick up the slack. I just received the remainder of items needed to complete the engine overhaul. New valves, springs, rings, gaskets and the main roller bearing. Shoot, my ZTU is going to be brand new when I get her done. (Well, you know what I mean.)

I'll update again as soon as something significant happens with the resto. I hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Michael


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## bow66tie (Oct 22, 2004)

Here's just a quick update on our Minneapolis Moline ZTU:

I've got the engine put back together with the exception of the oil seal out back. I've pulled the clutch to have the plate redone and pulled the oil seal to be replaced. The clutch bay was pretty gooped up with tranny fluid that has been leaking in for a number of years. 

Once I get the two seals and the clutch lining replaced, I get to put the three peices back together. My buddy has access to a converter shop where we've been able to hot tank everything that needed it and they also have a ball bearing blaster that we used to do some serious paint and rust removal off of everything from the tool box, radiator, fenders, axel clamps, seat, cowling...... That peice of machinery is a God send. I was concerned from information I had read about heating up the tin in the stripping process and warping it. We were careful enough that we had absolutely no problems with heat or warpage. 

Anyway, once I get the nose, engine bay and rear put back together, I'll post a picture.

I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas. I got a MM wall clock with a "prarie gold" neon light in it. Very cool.

Michael


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## DrBailey (Nov 14, 2004)

This is what I like about you Guy`s , Good questions , good pic. show , Better than reading a book.:thumbsup:


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

the red is all done by the end of this year i might have the yellow done
micheal hows your z coming


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

i need to go check out that last coat of paint it looks terrible in the picture. it looked ok out in the shop but it looks blotchy there


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

it must have been in the download it looks ok in the pic stored on the computer ....saved myself a trip to the shop


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## bow66tie (Oct 22, 2004)

Bear,

Just got back from camping on the coast. We left on Thursday morning and boy what a beautiful weekend. It was up to 60 degrees here and no rain all weekend. We couldn't have asked for a better camping trip.

To answer your question about the progress of my Z, well I haven't got much done lately. I've been doing some body work on the fender, but I haven't received the seals or clutch pad yet. I just need to get on busy. I'll get some work done in the next couple of weeks and let you know!!!

Michael

P.S. Did you use a specific paint code on your rims? I've read about a couple of different reds to use and I'm curious what you used.


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

on the rims i used tremclad fire red a buddy of mine told me it was very close and he used it all the time. so we compared his to some that were done with the mm paint code and we couldn't tell the difference.


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## bow66tie (Oct 22, 2004)

I'm not sure I'd have any luck finding that here. When the time comes, I'll just have to follow the code given on the MM website. Thanks anyway.

Michael


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