# ford 3400 pto operation



## sbarrett (Sep 5, 2018)

i have a 3400 ford tractor, late 60,s with a single stage clutch,should the pto stop spinning when i push the clutch ledal down?


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

You really need to know if you have a transmission PTO, or an independent PTO. That tractor came in both configurations. Your owners manual will illustrate the different ways to control whichever PTO you have.

My guess is that if the PTO continues to operate with the clutch depressed, and the tractor standing still, you have an independent PTO and it engages and disengages with the PTO lever.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

Let's start at the beginning here.
If you can, get us the 3 lines of code that are hand stamped into the bell housing just above and behind the starter and we can determine which tractor you have. (see photo)
Of particular importance is the middle line but all 3 is best.
No guessing on the numbers please. 8s often look like 3s and Os often look like Cs.
Scrape, sand, brush, clean, chaulk, etc to make sure.
Once we determine what tractor you actually have we can offer much better advice to help you.

RC.
Ford did not offer Independent PTO on the 3000 platform - which is what a 3400 is (except on Select O Speeds)
On the gear drive models they offered transmission pto or Live PTO by means of a double clutch.


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## sbarrett (Sep 5, 2018)

this is what i see as far as numbers go, top line 6l240 second line 34013c third line c165270-7b10 thanks for all your help.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Ultradog, I have a Ford 3400 Industrial with the dual range four speed, single plate clutch, and independent PTO.

My real deal Ford Repair Manual does not even show a double plate clutch option for the 3400.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

sbarrett said:


> this is what i see as far as numbers go, top line 6l240 second line 34013c third line c165270-7b10 thanks for all your help.


34013C
3 = 3000 chassis built before4/68
40 = utility
1 = diesel
3 = Live 540 PTO
C= 8 speed

The 6L240 is your build date.
6= 1966
L = December
24 = 24th day of the month
The 0 is most likely a C which means night shift. (Christmas eve)
So it sounds like you have live pto and maybe didn't know it?
On the early live pto models there was a two position clevis on the end of the clutch rod. 
Book says for PTO work pin should be in REAR hole.
With pin in rear hole try adjusting the pedal to give you the recommended 1 1/2" of free play.
If that does not help try moving it to the other hole and readjusting the pedal to 1 1/2" - just for kicks.
If that does not do the job I'm thinking you may be looking at a split as there are no other external adjustments you can make.
An update on this would be appreciated. We are all learning here.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

RC Wells said:


> Ultradog, I have a Ford 3400 Industrial with the dual range four speed, single plate clutch, and independent PTO.
> 
> My real deal Ford Repair Manual does not even show a double plate clutch option for the 3400.


I am certain Ford never offered Independent PTO on the 3000 platform - except for the SOS models. 
I would be very happy to get to the bottom of this with you - in a gentleman like way of course.
Post the 3 lines of code like sbarrett did and it will be a simple matter.
PS, 
A 3400 is not an industrial.
It is a Utility.
On the 3000 platform Ford built a bunch of different tractors.
The second pair of numbers tells us which you have.
10 = Ag or all purpose 
11 = LCG (low center of gravity) 
12 = Highway - I do not know if they built a 3000 highway
13 = Rice - same as a highway dunno.
20 = Row Crop (Was not used on the 3000 platform.)
30 = Vinyard
31 = Narrow
40 = Utility 
50 = Industrial


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

RC Wells said:


> Ultradog, I have a Ford 3400 Industrial with the dual range four speed, single plate clutch, and independent PTO.
> 
> My real deal Ford Repair Manual does not even show a double plate clutch option for the 3400.


One other thing I would like to say.
In the 40-50 years since these tractors were built parts were changed and tractors combined to make do.
So though the 3 lines of code are usually still accurate they are not absolute. The transmission from ANY 2000/3000 is a direct swap for any other transmission (except for SOS) in those series.
So one might have an AP transmission in an industrial or utility and vice versa. All those numbers tell us is what that transmission was installed in at the factory.
Ford also made mistakes on the stamping.
For example: The picture I posted above is from my 4200 Row Crop.
One can clearly see it reads 42024E
4 = pre 4/68 4000
20 = Row Crop
2 = gasser
4 = Independent 540 pto
E = SOS
BUT
Mine has the 540/1000/ground drive pto.
The # for that transmission SHOULD have been a 6 not a 4


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## sbarrett (Sep 5, 2018)

thanks for all of the help,i will try making the necessary adjustments to see what happens,just had a thought,what if the previous owner installed a single disc clutch to save money,just wondering,because everything i have worked on so far,complete power steering rebuild and front axle rebuild has been a mess and really kicked my ars if you know what i mean thanks,Steve


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

I'm trying to think of what combination of clutch and or flywheel someone could have installed to give you drive and a non releasing pto.
I suppose it IS possible.
Here are some photos for you to ponder over.
First photo shows the dual transmission input shafts that are used on both the L and I ptos.
The outer splined shaft/tube drives the pto. The inner one drives the tractor.
Second photo shows the clutch from a L pto tractor.
Note that it has two sets of springs - upper and lower in the picture. The upper clutch disc drives the pto and can be released. Lower disc (not seen in photo)drives the tractor and likewise can be released.
Now look at the 3rd photo from an I pto tractor.
Note that the center hub that drives the outer shaft is RIVITED to the clutch housing.
It can not be slipped or disconnected like a L pto clutch can.
So maybe it is possible to install an I pto clutch into a L pto tractor. It would give you constant pto power through the transmission to the pto.
It would also require changing the flywheel. I do not know if that could be done but maybe?
But now you have me wondering about something else which I will address in another post.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

The one other thing I've thought of here (sorry if I'm being OCD)
The pto handle moves a sliding coupler that connects the output shaft from the transmission to the pto shaft.
Sometimes if the drive shaft on let's say a bush hog is too long it will drive the pto shaft deeper into the tractor when the mower is lifted.
Generally that boogers up the rear pto shaft bearing and seal.
Twice I have seen this happen on a tractor and it not only boogered up the rear bearing/seal but it also created burrs on the rear output shaft of the transmission so the sliding coupler did not slide properly.
So...
It might? be possible that not only your clutch clevis is in the wrong hole but your sliding coupler is not sliding properly.
Checking your coupler is not hard at all.
Remove the Left step plate and then remove the 6" round cover. Reach in the hole and feel the coupler. Then move the pto handle back and forth to insure the coupler is sliding freely/smoothly as you move the handle.


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Not that it make any difference (that I know of) but I think the numbers on the top line is the production date for the transmission, and the date code after the serial number (7b10 = February 10, 1967) is for the assembly of the tractor.

The Serial Number C165270 fits the 1000 series models and the year 1967, according to Tractordata.com:
http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/2/5/259-ford-3000.html


I am not familiar with the double clutch, just curious. What if the PTO clutch is stuck, could that result in permanently engaged PTO, but functional drive clutch?


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

Hacke said:


> Not that it make any difference (that I know of) but I think the numbers on the top line is the production date for the transmission, and the date code after the serial number (7b10 = February 10, 1967) is for the assembly of the tractor.
> 
> The Serial Number C165270 fits the 1000 series models and the year 1967, according to Tractordata.com:
> http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/2/5/259-ford-3000.html
> ...


You may be correct on the second serial #
I have never seen one stamped that way before.
The one is about 6+ weeks after the first one.
Maybe they had to rework something on it and they restamped it when it left the factory. Too much egg nog/holiday cheer on Christmas eve?
Also, good thinking on the possibility of a stuck pto clutch. That is as good if not a better theory than any I suggested.


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## PJ161 (Sep 12, 2016)

Even though my 641 has a PTO lever, the PTO only rotates if the tractor is moving, reason I installed an override clutch on the shaft. Amazing just how much push a bush hog has winding down when approaching a fence without one!


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## sbarrett (Sep 5, 2018)

thanks for all the input guys,gives me lots of fuel for thought,i can,t imagine ford would produce something that the pto would not quit turning when you press the clutch,just for safety, even my old 8n does that. last week when i was fixing a bad pto seal leak i replaced the bearing and seal and the shaft seemed to in very good shape,i have not even gotten around to putting a bushhog on it yet because i had so many things to fix. i was just getting ready to install the loader back on when i changed all the fluids and serviced the pto ,and realized that it does not quit turning when i pushed the clutch pedal,maybe something could be stuck,but it looks like i,m in for another battle,thanks again,Steve


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Ultradog said:


> ...
> Maybe they had to rework something on it and they restamped it when it left the factory. Too much egg nog/holiday cheer on Christmas eve?
> ...


According to Stuart Gibbard, in the book "The Ford Story, part two", the eight speed transmissions were made at the Antwerp plant. There was a delay for shipping them over the pond.


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

sbarrett said:


> ...i have not even gotten around to putting a bushhog on it yet because i had so many things to fix. i was just getting ready to install the loader back on when i changed all the fluids and serviced the pto ,and realized that it does not quit turning when i pushed the clutch pedal,maybe something could be stuck,but it looks like i,m in for another battle,thanks again,Steve


Things may be different when you put a load on the PTO. If it stops turning when you depress the pedal with the bushhog on, all is well. Maybe the clutch will go back to normal when you have used the bushhog for a while with starts and stops.


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## dozer966 (Dec 30, 2014)

When I bought my 3400 the clutch was done in it and the adjustment was out. The PTO ran all the time when engaged. It is a two stage and now that I have changed it it works perfectly


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## dozer966 (Dec 30, 2014)

I to am not looking for a pissing match but mine was decoded as 1970 3400 industrial with 4 speed hi lo. But at the same time mine has been cobelled . The # say it's a gas but it's now a diesel.
I have to look for the # but will try to post tomorrow to review.


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## sbarrett (Sep 5, 2018)

well i tried adjusting the clutch by the repair manual, but no change,seems the pto clutch is not releasing,i even hooked my bushhog to it and bogged it down a couple times to try to free it up. i do remember when i had the steering sector off for a rebuild,i was looking right at the clutch,but did not pay it any attention,because the clutch was working just fine,is there any way that a repair or adjustment could be made through that access hole without splitting the tractor,just a thought.Steve


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## sbarrett (Sep 5, 2018)

can anyone offer some good advice, or lessons learned the hard way before i start splitting this tractor to check out the clutch, experience is always the king.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Mine is the light Ford yellow sheet metal and wheels, with the pastel blue engine and running gear. The original backhoe is also that light industrial blue. The hoe has its own hydraulic pump and sump, and runs off the PTO. The loader is the more typical Ford industrial yellow, slightly darker than the sheet metal. The tag on the inside of the right side hood panel is long gone. I only paid $250 for it at an auction, no providence as a collector unit, so is a beater tractor for odds and ends and grand kids learning experience. That is why hoe is detached, grand kids will not tip it over now.

Hoe is a 750, the loader is a 730, all Ford.

Have to shift the PTO lever out to shut down PTO, and engine has to be stopped before shifting the PTO lever. No internal clutch for the PTO at all.

I suspect the grand kids will have it out for Christmas if the weather is decent, so will get some photos then.


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## sbarrett (Sep 5, 2018)

sounds like quite a beast,mine also had some yellow on it, i can see the remnants where it was painted all blue.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

sbarrett said:


> sounds like quite a beast,mine also had some yellow on it, i can see the remnants where it was painted all blue.


From 66 till at least 73 the Utilities and LCGs were painted like this 4400 I used to have.
Ford called it Buff.
I'm not certain they continued that through the Series which ended in 75 tho.
They might have painted the late ones safety yellow which was a brighter - more yellow color.
I think the industrials - 3500/4500 were similar.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Yes, colors very much like mine, but the blue is the lighter pastel version. Loader is the later slightly darker industrial yellow when paint still had lead.

I will dig it out from behind the '29 steel wheeled kerosene burning Fordson N when the kids get here. No electric starter on that, and is what sons-in-law are for! Let them crank.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Fordson N? Are you holding out on us RC?


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## sbarrett (Sep 5, 2018)

well i just got the tractor split,not a bad job,but when i look at my clutch assembly it really looks to be in fairly good shape.the only thing i noticed was with the assembly still bolted to the flywheel, all 3 fingers were very loose and wobbly, maybe 3/8 of an inch free play,i assumed they should all have a load on them,can anyone advise me about this issue, both discs look very good, but if you recall,my original issue was my pto clutch would not disengage. do i need a new assembly or the proper setup, thanks for looking Steve


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## sbarrett (Sep 5, 2018)

after inspecting all of my clutch parts,which all seem to be in very good shape,i have decided to get all of the adjustments set up the way the IT manual says, and give it a try. while i,m in there i am going to replace the release bearing,the IT manual really does not address this but my online manual says to disconnect the internal spring,which i did with a large screwdriver,now it looks like a difficult task to get it reattached, does anyone have any tips on getting the spring back in place, thanks for looking, Steve


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## dozer966 (Dec 30, 2014)

I can not help you with the spring but do you see enny evidence of oil from the transmission input shaft or engine output shaft. If so it might be a good time to replace seals and bearings to. Avoid an other split in the near future.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Regarding the lose fingers, if the link below is your clutch (live PTO) they are not adjustable. The link release levers, #14 and #10, wear excessively and the springs,#8, lose tension. These pressure plates are best replaced.

https://partstore.agriculture.newholland.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr52383ar397258

If you have the ag style clutch in the following link, the nut #22, is adjusted on the U-bolt, #18, to remove slop.

https://partstore.agriculture.newholland.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr52383ar397230

If you have the double clutch with floppy release levers, below, take it to an experienced mechanic with the set up jigs, as the shims have to be replaced. Or, it is almost always less costly to simply replace the entire pressure plate assembly with the cost of labor today.

https://partstore.agriculture.newholland.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr52383ar397252

If you are resetting the release bearing collar spring, a set of brake spring pliers works best. I cut the handles down on a pair from NAPA just for this purpose on collection of Fords. It does not take much force with the pliers.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

pogobill said:


> Fordson N? Are you holding out on us RC?


I have an extensive collection of Fords and Fordsons, and a few old Fergusons; better than throwing money at CD's and watching it earn 2.3% as inflation eats my lunch. These tractors average 15% growth in value year over year. I do not post photos as they go to shows and get sold to collectors (or semi-retired farmers that want to remember how they started or as gifts to their grandchildren). These are truly original tractors complete with lead paint, plated unpainted bolts, original metal seats, original documentation, hand built copper and brass radiators, and bias tires.


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## sbarrett (Sep 5, 2018)

thanks for the replies , i appreciate the help. Steve


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## JGPenfield (Mar 10, 2016)

I have a Ford 3000 diesel with live PTO and both the transmission and PTO stay in gear when clutch is depressed. The PTO improved as I used and freed it up. The transmission though is getting worse. They do work off separate stages of the clutch. The PTO I could work with, but a tractor that does not stop until I stand on the brakes is making me nervous. I do not bring it near cliffs or water. I want to split the tractor someday but I am waiting to get a shop so I can have a concrete floor and some protection from rain. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tractor Forum


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## dozer966 (Dec 30, 2014)

Your tractor sounds a little dangerous. I did not have a shop or concrete floor to work on. I went to the local scrap yard and bought 2 sheets of 1/2" plate 3'x4' and welded them together and used it as my flore. My flore jack roled very nicely on it. I baged and taped all open holes that I did not want crap in. Here is a pic of my set up. Might be worth the outside hassel


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

I agree with Dozer.
It's not a bad job to do it on dirt. I don't have a photo of an engine to tranny split but have done it several times on half a sheet of 3/4" plywood with a floor jack.
I block the engine up then put the jack under the front of the transmission. Then roll the back half away from the engine.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

and if you don't have a loader on front, make up a couple of wood wedges and jam these on either side of the front axle pivot to stop the engine from flopping over when the transmission is pulled back, as well as keeping the alignment level, it is also a safety option.


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