# 1987 Ford 445A 3cyl Diesel, WONT START



## froman03 (May 7, 2017)

Hello All!! New here from NC, unfortunately I need HELP!!

-My Tractor-
1987 Ford Industrial 445A 2wd Shuttle Shift 3 cylinder diesel
Engine rebuilt in 2011 bored and sleeved from 48hp to 60hp
Everything new
New alternator, new starter, new radiator all in past 2 years.
Fuel filters have 100hrs on them roughly.

Alright here's my situation

My Die Hard work horse to which I have worked beyond and beyond everyday since Christmas Day of last year pretty much, has finally given me an issue. 
Now I am not a diesel mechanic but have some knowledge of the components and how they work, I am a fairly decent auto-mechanic but not a diesel mechanic.
I have owned most diesel trucks and am capable of performing mechanical tasks. But the sad truth is I am not fully fully confident in diagnosing my tractors problem.

I was using the ole girl today, running great running strong, pushing some dirt around in my open riding arena. Went to pick up a bucket load of dirt to move so I could create a drainage path for water and mid pick up she died. 
Checked the tank, saw fuel, it was a bit low so just assumed because of the angle of the tractor up the dirt pile she lost constant fuel.

No biggie, threw 5 gallons in her couple of good cranks and fired right up.
Got to moving my hay around after about 20 min of running, she started to idle iradically(?) and then BOOM dies again.

So I fiddle with it a bit try and make sure nothing for some reason got bound up or knocked loose given the rough trail I must take to access my back pasture, about the only thing I can do in my back 40 with no tools nor cell phone or anything but my wicker hat and my horses.
I find nothing
I took my hammer which I keep for my 3-point and lightly tap on the injection pump, using my carburetor knowledge a bit my thought was some possible dirt or something, try turning it over and she fires up (probably nothing I did but I'd like to think it was my handy tapping skills) So I proceed to drop my round bale and haul butt back to the barn.
Let her run the time I'm doing a couple things and go park her next to the shop, go out 2 hours later, she fires right up like shes supposed to then 4 or 5 seconds after she is running, same iradict idle then BAM dies right out. Crank and crank and crank but no fire.

What I have done so far (which is minimal) was checked fuel flow to the pump from the bleeder and as I crank it fuel "pulses" out with engine rotation.

Now as I mentioned, I am an AUTO mechanic but am fairly knowledgeable about how a diesel works but not THAT knowledgeable to feel comfortable diagnosing my babys problem. I do not want to mess something up so I would very much like some good advice before i proceed any further, steps to take etc...

Any and all help is GREATLY appreciated 

Thanks Guys!!!!!!


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Crack an injection line open one turn on a fuel injector end and get someone to crank the tractor over while you watch for fuel to spurt under pressure. It will probably spit some bubbles, then try to start. As soon as there is fuel spurting that is not air, tighten that line at the injector end.

I suspect it will start and run rough, just go ahead and tighten the line and let it cough and snort as it will then clear the other two injectors of air and run smooth. If it does not try to start and run rough as it clears the air from the other two injectors, barely loosen the other two pressure lines at the remaining injectors and crank it until it runs on all three. Then tighten those lines.

Remember, loosen pressure lines at injector end, not pump end.

Never tap on injection pump. They are built to precision tolerances and there is nothing internally that sticks unless the pump has a mechanical failure, then they must be removed and rebuilt by an experienced fuel injection mechanic.


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## froman03 (May 7, 2017)

That is why I only lightly tapped, like I said I didn't want to mess anything up any further depending on what is actually messed up right now. I will try this in the a.m.
What should I do if and possibly when fuel does not come out? Like I said I know enough but not that much. I knew diesels are pretty much as simple as they come and if they don't run ours a very short list of possibilities.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

When it shuts off, does it ACT LIKE its running out of fuel?? spits, sputters & slowly dies out..
That injection system is made to run +- a bucket of dirt.. IF you exceed the bucket, it'll shut down.. change the filters again.. Is it gravity fed to the inj. pump of is there a "helper pump"?
Take the cover off the helper pump if so equipped & clean that filter.. let us know what happens.


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## froman03 (May 7, 2017)

As I said I'm familiar with the set up but only to a point. I did not believe there is an actual "pump" so to speak. From what i see at the bottom of the fuel tank there is a shut off valve inline pre- fuel filter housing. From there it breaks to 2 fuel lines onward to the injection pump. From the injection pump there are 3 smaller lines running to each individual injector but also has an additional larger line that seems to connect all 3 and circles back to the pump, that is a larger line. I am assuming it's a return line.


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

I had a 1990 3930, there is a lift pump under the injection pump and a filter just before the injection pump. Just from what I have read in your post, it sounds like something from the tank has caused a blockage............but it could still be a faulty lift pump...can you snap a few photos of the pump area and around the lines from the tank? sometimes that helps us help you cause we can see what we are talking about


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

.................this was mine, ran like a politician....long and loud


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## froman03 (May 7, 2017)

Ok here's my update from the day. I was able to get it running for all of 5min earlier it was as it would seem when my father cranked and I fiddled with the fuel shutoff on the pump. She ran for like I said all of 5min long enough to move it from a convienant spot to an inconvenient spot...she started to surge while idling and then died out. I broke an injector line loose and I have no fuel, there is no smoke emitting from the exhaust whilst cranking, the injection pump seems to be working internally because while cranking if I open the bleeder on the outside of the pump case I have a good spray from there.
My initial question and concern is could something like the fuel shutoff have broken inside and isn't letting fuel up? I am not sure how the shutoff works so I do not know what could happen but it's just like if I was trying to start it with the fuel shut off. Just crank and crank and crank.

My fuel tank has a turn screw shut off beneath it with a line fed directly to the filter housing, through the glass to the filter to the pump, I checked the inline filter that is directly before the pump in the casing and it is fine, minor dirt nothing major none the less cleaned it and put it back in.


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

see if you have battery voltage at the connector for the fuel shut off solenoid while cranking


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

I'm sure thepumpguy may chime in soon, but it would not have good pressure at the bleeder if the shutdown solenoid had failed. It could be bad poppets in the rack, those are not injectors, they are nozzles, the pump provide the pulse through the poppets in the pump as the rack moves, at least that is how mine works


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## froman03 (May 7, 2017)

The fuel shut off is all mechanical, simple pull cable. I'm heading to the bath to snap a few pics for you.


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## froman03 (May 7, 2017)

here is some pics, sorry if they are dark or cannot see. It got dark fairly quick


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Disconnect the cable from the shut off lever..
Hold the throttle wide open.. while working the shut off lever slowly w/ your hand.. you should feel the nub on the end of the shaft, hitting the shut off bar.. you'll feel dead/free space, then a hit..
NOW move the shut off to the run position & do it again.. free then hit.. again, free then hit..
IF you cant feel the nub hitting the bar, the metering valve is probably stuck..
SOMETIMES you can free it temporarily by cranking the engine and working the shut off at the same time.. 5-6-10 x.. kinda like stomping the gas pedal on a carbureted car to get it to start..


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## froman03 (May 7, 2017)

Ok, only reason I mentioned the shutoff switch was because I briefly fiddled with it while cranking and in turn started to fire. But as I said I do not know what's beneath the cover it what the mechanism looks like so in turn do not know how it works. In my head it seems it should be simple. 
But at the same time my mind ponders how it takes so long for fuel to make it's way up to the cylinders but at the pull of the shutoff switch it instantly kills the engine. That is something I do not understand in the least


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

it takes VERY LITTLE fuel to keep that engine running.. therefore it takes along time to fill those injection lines.. & AS SOON as you disrupt the flow of fuel by moving the shut off lever.. it stops.
The pump is called a DPA.. made by CAV.. so if you search CAV DPA you'll get some break downs & common problems & "maybe even" some tricks that a certain pump guy wrote.


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## froman03 (May 7, 2017)

thepumpguysc said:


> it takes VERY LITTLE fuel to keep that engine running.. therefore it takes along time to fill those injection lines.. & AS SOON as you disrupt the flow of fuel by moving the shut off lever.. it stops.
> The pump is called a DPA.. made by CAV.. so if you search CAV DPA you'll get some break downs & common problems & "maybe even" some tricks that a certain pump guy wrote.


Where should I search? I searched in the search bar last night and found some info, but to be honest I am not the most computer savy person out here so I'm having a little trouble.
Does the fuel shut off sometimes become faulty?
Is my pump bad? My mechanical thoughts are that from the bleed screw above the name plate fuel squirts out strong enough to spray my car sitting next to the tractor with my jumpers on it. And if that does that my assumption is the pump is pumping BUT the reason being it's not making it's way to the nozzles 8s unknown.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

You are correct.. if its making its way to the bleeder, you've got PLENTY of fuel going into the pump.. search it on google.. not on this site..
Are you loosening the lines AT THE INJECTORS>> break them loose a couple of turns to bleed the air out of the lines.. you don't have to take them all the way off.. just loose..
There are TONS & TONS of explainations on how to take the top cover off and free-up a stuck metering valve.. Heck, I wrote most of them.. lol


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

IF you really cant find it.. PM me or send me an email w/ your home email address & I'll forward you the instructions along w/ the gasket p#'s you'll need to reseal the cover..


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## froman03 (May 7, 2017)

Alright, my update per a couple hours messing with it today. I watched a YouTube video of a complete breakdown and stuff of the cav. straight forward, I decided to pull the cover off without pulling the pump since I am not comfy with messing with the gear and rotary stuff etc... anyways, pulled the cover and pulled the governor plate and meter valve thing and stuff, all looked great.. unfortunately... cleaned it none the less and put it all back together. Now I was having a battery cable issue whilst cranking, so I couldn't consistently crank without a bit of smoke so decided to call it and tackle that issue. At the same time I decided to pull the end cap thing off that holds the inline #8 filter and make sure all of that was good and clean, I did find that it seemed when I took it out the other day the bottom spring got cocked in there sideways, I could be wrong and it could have turned when I pulled the plunger out. Not completely sure, cleaned the filter, cleaned the plunger made sure the holes were open and put it all back together. 

Where I stand at this exact moment with the old girl is, gotta get my truck over there in the morning with my jumpers, crack open the lines and CRANK i hate ding that but gosh darn diesels are a pita.

Also let me note, the cover gasket was in excellent shape so was reused, I'll have to look back at the reciepts I got with it to see what and when things were replaced and or rebuilt.


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## froman03 (May 7, 2017)

Alright fellas, final verdict...
After much frustration and lots of bleeding and charging and bleeding and charging and more taking apart and beating myself over my own head with a 5/8in wrench. I finally figured out what the problem was.

So as I said I took the pump cover off a couple days ago along with the end cal with the plunger and springs etc...
Anyways, from what I can gather I misplaced the governor spring location so in turn idle position was basically "kill" position, that along with when I ran the poor girl out of fuel on an incline some certain dirt or whatever ended up clogging up the petcock in the tank therefore no fuel to the filter, I replaced the filter and found that issue. After full throttle cranking FINALLY seeing a light at the end of the tunnel with a little but if smoke emitting from the exhaust pipe, nothing... no more smoke and more cranking.
Well I let the battery charge a bit, full throttle and crank and my dad says to me
"What's this rod flopping around here?"
Fricking throttle linkage came off of the throttle, Lord knows when, in assuming when I stopped seeing the awesome looking smoke finally coming from the pipe.
Note, there wasn't a pin in the bar to begin with so I never thought to out one in after I out it back together.
Anyways, put it back, full throttle and bam, fired right up. Adjusted the idle because of the spring being in the wrong spot and she is running better than ever. To be honest the end fix didn't cost me a dime other than buying a new filter which is never a bad thing to replace anyways, and tank removal and cleaning is now scheduled in the very near future.

Thank you guys for your support and help, I will end up removing the cover again when my work gets caught up and putting the spring back correctly, but as of right now she is running and work is backed up. So I have a busy few days.

Thank you guys again for helping, at least it wasn't a big problem and anyone of you guys probably could have diagnosed it right off the bat.
But thank you once again!


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

glad to hear man.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Very Kool.. glad we could help..
Just REMEMBER.. PUSH THE SHUT OFF CABLE TO RUN, AFTER SHUTTING IT DOWN..
That way, it wont get stuck in the NO RUN position ever again..
IF everybody followed that little instruction, I'd be living in a box, instead of on the lake.. Lol


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## froman03 (May 7, 2017)

So when I pull the shutoff to kill it after it is off push it back? I want to be sure I'm understanding correctly. Because that i do not do it stays in the kill position until ready to restart. If that is wrong I will definitely adjust my habit accordingly to save any possible future headache


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

yup.. push it back in.. it'll save you money & years of headaches..


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