# Electrical Issue - Starting



## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

Hello. I have a YM1700.that has been a great tractor for bush hogging. Earlier this Spring, I went to start it after sitting in my pole barn, covered in Mississippi. I installed a known good battery, turned the key (the red light that normally comes on, came on) and I pushed the ignition switch and got a "clunk" noise from the starter and the red light went out and nothing from the starter button after that, If I wait for a little while and turn the key, the red light will come on and and pushing the starter button produces the same clunk noise.

This tractor lives 150 miles away. This summer, we got by with the riding mower to stay on top of the field in front f the cabin, but I need this tractor back up and running. I piddled with it off an on over the summer.

Here's what I've done so far:


Bought a new battery
Cleaned the ground strap and where it connects - ground down to bare steel and remounted the ground strap.
New battery terminals.
The key switch came from Hoy Tractor and I replaced it about a year ago.
New starter from Hoy tractor.
All the fuses appear to be Ok. Some I have replaced in the past.

I suspect I need to inspect all the wiring for rodent damage. All connections to the key switch are tight, and so are the connection to the push button starter switch. If this was your tractor, where would you stat looking for issues? I have some understanding of electrical issues and a multimeter, but I am not an electrical expert by ANY means. Think elementary school understanding here....

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance - I'll be up at the cabin over Christmas and I'll have some time to track down issues.


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## winston (Aug 19, 2008)

I would probably use a screwdriver to jump across the starter terminals. A safer way would be to buy something like this to eliminate switch circuit problems. 12 Volt Remote Starter Switch (harborfreight.com) You mentioned push button starter switch so maybe you have already tried this.


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## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

Thanks Winston - so, you think the momentary interrupter push button ignition switch could be bad?


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Others may disagree, and you will no doubt get multiple suggestions, so take your pick. I would begin at the starter. A simple jumper wire from battery positive to the small (start) terminal on the starter. Transmission in neutral, key off, fuel shutoff (if it has one) off, see what happens. If the starter engages and begins to crank the engine, that means the starter, battery, major cables and connections are NOT the problem. I would look next at the wiring from the starter main battery stud leading into the tractor. I'm not the Yanmar Guy so I couldn't say if there's a fusible link near the starter main stud feeding the tractor electrical circuits or not, but I'd be looking for one. If all that looks good, then go into area where the key switch connections hide armed with a test light. I never us a voltmeter unless I'm concerned with a charging system problem. A test light is much easier to handle and will tell me all I need to know about where there is power and where there is not.


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## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

Thanks Fedup. I will try the jumper wire from the batter to the starter. I am making a list of the two suggestions so far and will take them with me in a couple of weeks to the tractor.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

winston said:


> I would probably use a screwdriver to jump across the starter terminals. A safer way would be to buy something like this to eliminate switch circuit problems. 12 Volt Remote Starter Switch (harborfreight.com) You mentioned push button starter switch so maybe you have already tried this.


And we have another fan of melted screwdrivers.


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## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

I bought a remote starter switch just now.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Fedup said:


> And we have another fan of melted screwdrivers.


Strange that mr fedup, I don't have any melted screw drivers and I have had my set for the best part of 50 years.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

bjordan said:


> Thanks Fedup. I will try the jumper wire from the batter to the starter. I am making a list of the two suggestions so far and will take them with me in a couple of weeks to the tractor.


Before dumping more money into this, did you voltage check the VR (voltage regulator) ?

There are 2 types, the old original that is flaky and the newer solid state design that both Yanmar and John Deere spent time engineering all the good things into.

The Hoye site, along with others offer the NEW style VR. Even Yanmar has a Service Bulletin out dating back to the 80s and 90s on this. 

OLD STYLE (flaky and does goofy things)









NEW STYLE ( All Solid State)









So, look under and inside the dash or it's located on the back wall of the engine area.

Also, when you buy, make sure the end connector MATCHES, else you'll be spending more money for a jumper 6-inch wire harness for $24. ugh.
Reason being, the YM1700 was produced in 3 generations. Green Tree Frog is 1st gen, YM1700A Red with early hood and headlamp style 2nd gen and a YM1700A-A 3rd gen.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

Fedup said:


> And we have another fan of melted screwdrivers.


I love melted screw drivers.  

This way, I can get FREE new ones from Craftsman anytime with a never ending lifetime warranty.


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

bmaverick said:


> I love melted screw drivers.
> 
> This way, I can get FREE new ones from Craftsman anytime with a never ending lifetime warranty.



Sometimes they smell like bacon when they arc and melt.......Ummmmmmmm........Bacon.......


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## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

bmaverick said:


> Before dumping more money into this, did you voltage check the VR (voltage regulator) ?
> 
> There are 2 types, the old original that is flaky and the newer solid state design that both Yanmar and John Deere spent time engineering all the good things into.
> 
> ...


Thanks Bmaverick! I just saw this post. I have not checked the voltage regulator, but I will next time I'm up there!

So, this weekend, I was up at my farm and I looked at the tractor. I jumper the ignition switch with the inline starter switch I bought and I got three rapid "clicks" from starter and then nothing.

He is a pic of the replacement starter from Hoye tractor I put on a few months ago:








Does anyone see any issues with how its connected?

Here is the old starter:







How do I test this starter? I know ground is to the body, but which post does the positive go? I just want to make sure it spins - I brought it back with me.

Any other suggestions, other than the voltage regulator? I'll have to see which type I have, and, how do I test the one I have?

Thanks to everyone!!


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

bjordan said:


> Thanks Bmaverick! I just saw this post. I have not checked the voltage regulator, but I will next time I'm up there!
> 
> So, this weekend, I was up at my farm and I looked at the tractor. I jumper the ignition switch with the inline starter switch I bought and I got three rapid "clicks" from starter and then nothing.
> 
> ...


Did you reach out to Hoye. I only mention this becasue there are more than one brand of starter that can be used for our machines. Hitachi, Denso, Mitsubishi, and a slew of others. Thus the connections are the same, but the locations can be different.


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## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

bmaverick said:


> Did you reach out to Hoye. I only mention this becasue there are more than one brand of starter that can be used for our machines. Hitachi, Denso, Mitsubishi, and a slew of others. Thus the connections are the same, but the locations can be different.


Yes, I just sent them a message. Thanks again.


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## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

This is from Aaron at Hoye tractor:

You still have a bad connection somewhere. The connection is good enough to pass low amperage but fails as the amperage gets higher. Bad connections can be tricky to find but, luckily, yours is repeatable so you should be able to find where it is with a volt meter. Since everything goes dead- even jumping the starter- it will have to be in a big ground wire or big power wire (or those connections). 


Thoughts?


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

bjordan said:


> This is from Aaron at Hoye tractor:
> 
> You still have a bad connection somewhere. The connection is good enough to pass low amperage but fails as the amperage gets higher. Bad connections can be tricky to find but, luckily, yours is repeatable so you should be able to find where it is with a volt meter. Since everything goes dead- even jumping the starter- it will have to be in a big ground wire or big power wire (or those connections).
> 
> Thoughts?


With the key to the ON position, but not cranking, check the voltages to the starter and make note of them. Since the jumping goes dead, access the VR and check the wires voltages. There should be a wire for IGN. 

For my machine, the 6-pin layout for the VR550 would look like this. 
Additional Yanmars would be the same even the YM1700.
195, 240, 330, 336, 1700, 2000, 2200, 2210, 2500, 2610, 2700, 3000, 3110, 3810, 4300 Replaces p/n 124550-77710 Hitachi TL1Z-86E (last letter is the revision of the part. Thus A thru E) 









Put the positive volt meter probe in IGN. The other the ground on the chassis and turn the key to crank. Make note of what is going to the IGN. Next, keep positive probe in IGN and place the negative in N. Turn the key once again to simulate a crank. Note the voltages. 

At present, my VR500 is dead. I have one on order from All States Ag Parts (ASAP) because it's an amazing price of $18 for the solid state version. For some strange reason, every where else is charging $40 to $116 for this solid state VR. Why, I have no idea because that is insane markup. The old mechanical VR is costly to make and labor intensive. The solid state VR with an IC replaces several old VR models into 1 clever type, thus the costs is LOWER for manufacturing and even more automated. This VR is used on many GM vehicles, Ford vehicles and many many many off road equipment machines. So, the costs have to be lower vs. highway robbery. LOL


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## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

bmaverick said:


> With the key to the ON position, but not cranking, check the voltages to the starter and make note of them. Since the jumping goes dead, access the VR and check the wires voltages. There should be a wire for IGN.
> 
> For my machine, the 6-pin layout for the VR550 would look like this.
> Additional Yanmars would be the same even the YM1700.
> ...


Excellent information!! I will try this when I get back to the farm and tractor in a couple of weeks.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

bjordan said:


> Excellent information!! I will try this when I get back to the farm and tractor in a couple of weeks.


Like Aaron from Hoye said, something isn't wired else where correctly. 

Check the wiring of the following

Battery connections and grounding
Voltage Regulator (aka VR)
Fuse block.
(On TBN, someone reported that mice ate thru a wire on the back side of the fuse box. Thus, no start ordeal).

Light Flasher Relay. Yeah that funny looking round can with 2 spades near the VR under the dash.
Clutch Safety Switch
Altenator
Front and rear lights
any additional add-on electrical items.

There isn't too much more to all of this.


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## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

bmaverick said:


> Like Aaron from Hoye said, something isn't wired else where correctly.
> 
> Check the wiring of the following
> 
> ...


Thats my plan - start taking wires off. especially the large ones and clean them with contact cleaner and steel wool and reattach. Where is the clutch safety switch? Down near the clutch linkage I'd guess??


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

If you have a set of jumper leads, hook the red leads to the positive of the battery and the nut and thread on the solenoid, clean and tighten the nut, the black lead goes to the negative pole on the battery and a good clean earthing point on the starter case, usually around the attachment hole, if you have a vise, then clamp the starter into this, otherwise use a lot of foot pressure to counter the torque re-action, then use a screw driver between the spade and the positive connection on the solenoid, (red arrows) if you get a click, then the solenoid could be faulty.

To check the actual starter motor windings etc., remove the negative lead from the starter body and shift the red positive connector to the other thread and nut on the solenoid,( the one with the braided cable going into the starter) this will bypass the solenoid, then touch the starter housing with the negative lead on a clean area, if the armature, commutator, brushes and windings are ok, the starter should spin, and don't hold the connection for long, excessive over revving can blow the commutator apart, just touch and remove after a few seconds.

Something else you can try to fault find on your tractor, connect the positive jumper lead from battery to battery connection on solenoid and try the starter switch, if you get a click, then connect the negative lead to battery and a good earthing point and try and start again, if the starter works either way with this test, then you have bad battery cable/s or dirty connections, the corrosion on that new starter shows there is a problem from the weather or otherwise.


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## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

FredM said:


> View attachment 76331
> 
> 
> If you have a set of jumper leads, hook the red leads to the positive of the battery and the nut and thread on the solenoid, clean and tighten the nut, the black lead goes to the negative pole on the battery and a good clean earthing point on the starter case, usually around the attachment hole, if you have a vise, then clamp the starter into this, otherwise use a lot of foot pressure to counter the torque re-action, then use a screw driver between the spade and the positive connection on the solenoid, (red arrows) if you get a click, then the solenoid could be faulty.
> ...


Thanks Fred - great information. I'll test the old starter later today. The tractor is stored covered, but not quite to the starter, inside a pole barn. So, its not directly in the elements. Thanks again! I sure wish the tractor was here with me and not 150 miles away...


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

I see you have bought a remote starter switch??, instead of using the screw driver to jump the old starter, connect one lead of the remote to the solenoid spade and the other to the jumper lead clamp that you connect to the solenoid battery connection and hold the starter well, torque re-action will cause the starter body to spin itself.

I mean't to add, if my advise for hooking up the jumper leads on the tractor don't work, leave connected and run a temporary hot wire from the start tab on the switch to the solenoid spade, doing this will also check the original starter hot wire for continuity through the start circuit safety switches.

Yeh!!, must be a pain to be so far from your tractor, but then I have read on this forum where some owners are a thousand plus from their machines


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## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

FredM said:


> I see you have bought a remote starter switch??, instead of using the screw driver to jump the old starter, connect one lead of the remote to the solenoid spade and the other to the jumper lead clamp that you connect to the solenoid battery connection and hold the starter well, torque re-action will cause the starter body to spin itself.
> 
> I mean't to add, if my advise for hooking up the jumper leads on the tractor don't work, leave connected and run a temporary hot wire from the start tab on the switch to the solenoid spade, doing this will also check the original starter hot wire for continuity through the start circuit safety switches.
> 
> Yeh!!, must be a pain to be so far from your tractor, but then I have read on this forum where some owners are a thousand plus from their machines


Thanks Fred - Im making a list of what to try when I am up thre in a couple of weeks.


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## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

Hello Folks,
Here's an update, with a small bit of egg on my face...

I was finally able to get to do some wrench time on the YM1700 this weekend (after deer season ended). Before I went up to where the tractor is located, I checked my new, 750 CCA with my load charger and it dropped into the weak area of the meter (fully charged). So, I went an bought a new 1000 CCA deep cycle marine battery that was like the one I replaced. I put the new battery in the tractor and as I was putting the battery terminals on, I noted the positive terminal was cracked on the underside and that crack was keeping the terminal from clamping down on the battery.

So, with a new battery and a replacement positive terminal, the starter bumped the engine over when I bumped the starter switch. So, problem solved! I didn't start the tractor - I need to replace a rear axle seal. The fluid is low and I didn't want to potentially damage my hydo pump

So, at the end of all this, it was a simple fix and I should have caught in much earlier in the process.

Thank you all for the suggestions and advice. I'll be bush hogging this summer no problem.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

bjordan said:


> Hello Folks,
> Here's an update, with a small bit of egg on my face...
> 
> I was finally able to get to do some wrench time on the YM1700 this weekend (after deer season ended). Before I went up to where the tractor is located, I checked my new, 750 CCA with my load charger and it dropped into the weak area of the meter (fully charged). So, I went an bought a new 1000 CCA deep cycle marine battery that was like the one I replaced. I put the new battery in the tractor and as I was putting the battery terminals on, I noted the positive terminal was cracked on the underside and that crack was keeping the terminal from clamping down on the battery.
> ...



This site also has your YM1700 manual over in the RESOURCE MANAGER section. Look under CUT tractors, several pages.


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## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

bmaverick said:


> This site also has your YM1700 manual over in the RESOURCE MANAGER section. Look under CUT tractors, several pages.


Thanks for that!! Downloaded.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

bjordan said:


> Thanks for that!! Downloaded.


There are more manuals, but this site has a file upload limitation. 

All of the manuals are at the largest Yanmar community on the web called,

The Yanmar Tractors Owners Group on GroupsIO. 35+ years helping vintage Yanmar owners since the GeoCites days.  Link is in my signature below. The site is a listserv, so it sort of looks like a forum but it behaves differently. 

This site here works well for not only topic discussions, also for images and sharing more so.


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## bjordan (Mar 28, 2018)

Hi Folks,

Just a quick update to this tread. After about a year to the day, this weekend, my YM1700 was awoken and the happy sounds of the Yanmar hammer resonated as I was able to mow the field with the bushhog attached. Thanks to everyone that responded. It ran fine and in addition, the rear wheel axle seal went in without a fight and seems to be holding fluid. I'll double check that this weekend when I will be back up to my property and where the tractor lives. Hapy to have the tractor back in service. Now, after the grass growing season is over, I need to get it back to my shop and check the compression on cylinders and see if I need injectors (I already have them) or an engine rebuild - might need both! More questions to follow on a new thread in a few months.

Thanks again.


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