# ford 2120 loader & 3 point Hydraulic & starting problems



## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

Hi All, have a ford 2120, has the shuttle shift, loader - 3 point, the hydraulics seem to quit working on it,drives fine, then I will bleed the hydraulics and the lifts work fine, until I let it sit for a few days,then I have to bleed em again to get them to lift, it is also hard to start, but runs great and plenty of power and no blow-by or smoke, has low hours on it, does this engine have glow plugs? the filters have been replaced and filled with Hydraulic fluid, no difference,same problem. has 2 engine mounted pumps on side , both have been removed and inspected,see no problems, any suggestions or related problems with a fix??


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## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

the tractor has arrived, Im trying to understand the system a bit before starting any testing, first off, the tractor in a 1999, NOT a 1988.. I found a ?? may be a pump that brings fluid to the HSS & power steering pumps?? I need to know what this is.. theres a small pipe that connects it to the HSS, and a larger pipe that goes to the differential, which I believe is the pick up or screen, manual ordered,but not here yet, heres some pics of the parts..


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## HarveyW (Sep 15, 2014)

Hey boatmoter,

Answer to your first question..... Yes, your tractor has glow plugs. And Shibaura engines are ornery to start, hot or cold. You must use the glow plugs. Normally there is a keyswitch position to pre-heat the glow plugs. You need an operator's manual to learn how to maintain & operate this tractor. 

See item #25 on parts diagram below illustrating location of the glow plugs:
https://www.messicks.com/nh/67808?sectionId=9444&diagramId=67808_496586


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Here is a hydraulic pump/parts diagram for a hydraulic shuttle shift (HSS) transmission.
https://www.messicks.com/nh/67808?sectionId=9441&diagramId=67808_323605

As you can see from the above parts diagrams, there are many variations. You will have to decide what system your tractor has. For your bleed-down problem, I would search through the suction lines looking for a possible causes of leakage.
Check for the following for possible air leakage into system:
1) Hydraulic filter plugged??
2) Suction screen plugged?
3) O-rings in suction line leaking air into system?
4) Hose splices in suction line leaking air into system? I think these hose splices are intended for vibration dampening to prevent fatigue failure of steel tubing connections. 

Your hydraulic pump might also have a seal leak allowing the bleed down.

With suction systems, you are dealing with negative pressure. Air entry is from outside the system.


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## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

BigT said:


> Here is a hydraulic pump/parts diagram for a hydraulic shuttle shift (HSS) transmission.
> https://www.messicks.com/nh/67808?sectionId=9441&diagramId=67808_323605
> 
> As you can see from the above parts diagrams, there are many variations. You will have to decide what system your tractor has. For your bleed-down problem, I would search through the suction lines looking for a possible causes of leakage.
> ...


Thanks.. I looked at it, lots of help


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## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

well, I drained the fuel tank,it was sitting for 5 yrs, there was nothing in it, looks like a rubber return hose from the top of the filter was broke,leaked it all out, I put in 3.5 gallons of vinegar and 2 gallons of water in the fuel tank, let it sit for 2 days, drained and there was no dark liquid,tells me no rust, filled with off road Dyed diesel and replaced fuel filter,drained lines all way to pump, air stopped coming out at the pump, removed injector lines, and keep cranking it until the liquid coming out of the lines are red from the new dyed fuel, I crank on it until the battery is low,let it charge and then repeat.. hope it turns red soon, I checked voltage at Glow plugs, 12 vts, removed wires from Glow plugs and checked resistance on each one, all has between 1.5 to 2.0 ohms,none open.., so far,so good..


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## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

Hi all, cleaned the vin #'s better, turns out ( the tractor is a 1988), NOT a 1999, I removed the glow plugs and did a compression test and had all low cylinders, I got the tractor from a friend,he said it ran great before parking it for 5 years because the hydraulics quit working, this tells me that the rings were stuck in the piston ring Gland's, so I filled the cylinders with a ATF & injector cleaner mix and let it sit for 2 weeks to remove carbon and loosen the rings, blew out all the fluid and reinstalled the glow plugs, the starter did not work very well, it turned slow and kept kicking back out of the ring gear after a couple of turns, did the research and found out the starter was the wrong one on the tractor,it was for a 3/99 tractor, mine turns out to be a 88.. the one for it has a external solenoid, the one on it had a internal solenoid, after this,it fired right up and ran good, now it's time for the Hydraulic issue's.. DOES this 2120 with loader have a internal suction screen?? it does have a external spin on hydraulic filter.. the piping diagrams I found do not show either way or even the flange for the suction tube at the differential,either does my factory shop manual..


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## TonsOfGuns (May 10, 2020)

My repair manual refers to the screw on filter as both an "Inlet filter" and a "suction spin-on type hydraulic filter". The diagrams are confusing.

No suction screen is mentioned anywhere for any of the hydraulic systems


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## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

Thanks. thats the same pic I have in my book.. but pointing out that it says suction filter & spin on helps a lot.. Thanks..


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## TonsOfGuns (May 10, 2020)

The diagram I found confusing was see part #9 on the attached picture, which again refers to a suction filter. Which looks kinda like a screw on filter, which is probably the same filter in my previous post.


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## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

thanks.. but I believe thats the suction filter for the 3 point on a non loader 2120, the 2120's with a loader have the spin on,but I wasn't sure if it also had a screen too, I did the research on that suction filter,thanks again


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## harry16 (Dec 8, 2011)

Attached are piping diagrams for 2120's with HSS. You will have to decide which system you have.

https://www.messicks.com/nh/67808?sectionId=9441&diagramId=67808_323603
https://www.messicks.com/nh/67808?sectionId=9441&diagramId=67808_323572

Let us know what you think you have, and we will discuss possible air leakage points.


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## TonsOfGuns (May 10, 2020)

I'm curious to know what you find. My 1920 and 2120 are listed in the same manual. My PTO shaft was shredded. If there's a screen anywhere in the hydraulic assembly I'd also like to clean it. I had a bunch of metal shards and chunks in my transmission cases


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## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

harry16 said:


> Attached are piping diagrams for 2120's with HSS. You will have to decide which system you have.
> 
> https://www.messicks.com/nh/67808?sectionId=9441&diagramId=67808_323603
> https://www.messicks.com/nh/67808?sectionId=9441&diagramId=67808_323572
> ...


#323572 is the one I have


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## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

TonsOfGuns said:


> I'm curious to know what you find. My 1920 and 2120 are listed in the same manual. My PTO shaft was shredded. If there's a screen anywhere in the hydraulic assembly I'd also like to clean it. I had a bunch of metal shards and chunks in my transmission cases


will do, so far,all 3 of my pumps quit at the same time,so it about has to be a suction problem,Im on my way right now to buy some 5 gallon buckets to drain the fluid into, then drop the suction pipe & check the spin on filter


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## harry16 (Dec 8, 2011)

OK, this is the system you have:

https://www.messicks.com/nh/67808?sectionId=9441&diagramId=67808_323572

First thing I would check (replace) is item #31....short hose section

Then replace o-rings and gaskets in the suction lines:
Item #25 gasket
Item #22 o-rings (2ea.)
Item #14 o-ring
Filter seal?? Have you replaced this filter?
Each pump has a suction o-ring. Replace.

This diagram doesn't cover all 3 pumps. It could also be a leaking (internal) pump seal.


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## TonsOfGuns (May 10, 2020)

I would diagnose the problem before replacing any parts. You will need new o-rings. Messicks is going to charge a pretty penny for anything you order. For all my Orings I measured the part and ordered rings based on my measurements. It will be cheaper this way but more time consuming


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## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

TonsOfGuns said:


> I would diagnose the problem before replacing any parts. You will need new o-rings. Messicks is going to charge a pretty penny for anything you order. For all my Orings I measured the part and ordered rings based on my measurements. It will be cheaper this way but more time consuming


expensive.. I found that out, I ordered all the Orings for the suction side of the piping,triangle gasket from messicks bout 3 weeks ago.. ,tried to save money by going to a hydraulic hose shop, went to 4 of them before I found replacement hose for the 2 sections of the suction piping, ended up spending more,for the hose and 2 stainless marine band clamps with a 10mm head on the threaded bolt,does not crimp or pinch the hose at all, the old hose looked like it was damaged from the worm screw clamps all the way through the hose,possible pin holes,but not big enough to leak fluid,maybe suck air.. I drained all the hyd. oil from the trans and differential and the oil looked like it had water in it and when I poured it into buckets,it foamed pretty bad on the top.. I will finish the suction side of the piping on thurs. wifes off on tues & wend..I don't wish to stir that pot lol.. I also plan to filter the old fluid a few times with a terry cloth rag and pour back in with some diesel fuel to clean it some,then put some new fluid and the new filter on it, mine only has a spin on filter, NO screen.. maybe the 2120's with NO loader have the pipe & screen inside the differential along with a belly pump for the 3 point, I believe the ford 2120, 2000,3000, and 4000 share the same tube & screen inside the differential


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## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

I drained fluid, replaced ALL Orings and gaskets on the suction side from differential to the pumps,replace Hydraulic filter,and the gasket at the differential also.. so,I cover the air leak on the suction side of the Hydraulics, the Loader, 3 point, and PTO does not work, seems the HHS trans pump & the Hydraulic pump for the loader & 3 point use the same suction pipe but the piping goes to the hydraulic pump first.. so, anyone know where my next step would be?? pump air leakage?? pressure by passing somewhere?? I first wanted to cover any air leaks on the suction side, or clogged filter, I have done that..will start performing pressure test 1.5 weeks from now, have to pick up a few connectors for my gauge to hook to a few different ports,also, seems the HHS & the Hydraulics went out at the same time.. I don't believe 2 different pumps would go out at the same time.. I also don't believe 2 different diverter valves or check valve would go out at the same time either. anyone have any imput on this Daymare?


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## Tazer (Mar 23, 2021)

boatmoter said:


> I drained fluid, replaced ALL Orings and gaskets on the suction side from differential to the pumps,replace Hydraulic filter,and the gasket at the differential also.. so,I cover the air leak on the suction side of the Hydraulics, the Loader, 3 point, and PTO does not work, seems the HHS trans pump & the Hydraulic pump for the loader & 3 point use the same suction pipe but the piping goes to the hydraulic pump first.. so, anyone know where my next step would be?? pump air leakage?? pressure by passing somewhere?? I first wanted to cover any air leaks on the suction side, or clogged filter, I have done that..will start performing pressure test 1.5 weeks from now, have to pick up a few connectors for my gauge to hook to a few different ports,also, seems the HHS & the Hydraulics went out at the same time.. I don't believe 2 different pumps would go out at the same time.. I also don't believe 2 different diverter valves or check valve would go out at the same time either. anyone have any imput on this Daymare?


I know this is a old post but was wondering if boatmotor ever got things lined out. I have a 88-89 doing the same thing.


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## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

Tazer said:


> I know this is a old post but was wondering if boatmotor ever got things lined out. I have a 88-89 doing the same thing.





Tazer said:


> I know this is a old post but was wondering if boatmotor ever got things lined out. I have a 88-89 doing the same thing.


YES, it fixed the problem.. turns out the 130 tractor fluid is not for wet brakes and eats up the pads, which gets sucked up into the hydraulics, any tractor with wet brakes needs tractor fluid #130-D which is for wet brakes, bought shell Rotella from tractor supply, if the 3 point is not working then the diverter valve probably needs to be taken apart and cleaned, if the trans is not working,then same thing but to the shuttle shift valve,but fresh fluid and a new filter for hydraulics is a must


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## salba32 (Jan 2, 2022)

Hello all, I'm new to the forum and was searching for the working pressure of the hydraulic hose (better yet, an item number for the hose so I can order it) that tilts the bucket up and down. I'm green to the tractor world so I know nothing! I bought some property and it came with this 1991 Ford 43hp 4x4 tractor with front-end loader. I had this line burst on me and I took it off so I can purchase it when I'm back in the city. I'd love to get a repair manual. Does anyone have a link where I can download one? I also wondering if I need to bleed the lines like I do my brake lines in a car? How is that done? I know I have a lot of questions, sorry. I'm very appreciative for any answers.


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## boatmoter (Feb 27, 2015)

Tazer said:


> I know this is a old post but was wondering if boatmotor ever got things lined out. I have a 88-89 doing the same thing.


Hi, these are great tractors.. problem was the hydraulic resivor (differential) was dirty, I added 1 gallon of diesel fuel to the old fluid and ran it for bout 20 minutes working all the hydraulics and shuttle shift to clean it out,drained it, installed shell Rotella hydraulic fluid, (has to be and say it's for wet brakes),and replaced hydraulic filter,this was the cause of the problem, next is to remove the diverter valve (under right side of tractor, above running board,and take apart and clean thourghly, mine was cloged with debris from dirty fluid & old filter (you will need a shop manual for this part) the diverter valve operates the front & 3 point hydraulics, power steering is all to itself, hydraulic pump on timing cover is for hydraulics, other 2 pumps on left side are p/s steering pump & shuttle shift pump, and reinstall, solved my problem, lots of 2120 owners do not use the fluid made for wet brakes, the 2120's do not like this, eats the brake pads which clogs the hydraulic system. on the Shiburas, got the fluid from tractor supply, one of them stocked it, it was bout $80 for 5 gal. you will need 2 of em. good luck, I believe it says to replace hydraulic filter & fluid every 500 hours of run time.


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## Keith Davis (Dec 1, 2020)

salba32 - for your loader hydraulic line: you should be able to take the blown line to an ag dealer, parts store or specialty shop that can make new hoses while you wait. Here by me most all NAPA stores can do this. There are also a couple semi truck repair shops by me that will make lines and of course I also have a Parker store in town. 

When you line blew- you lost fluid. However when you disconnected the hose from the remotes at the front of the tractor, the fluid would have stopped leaking out. When you get the replacement hose, install it, dump about what looked like you lost back into the tractor hydraulic reservoir (at back of tractor on top of rear axle, near top 3-point connection point) then just fire it up and work the loader several times and that should bleed the air out.


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## salba32 (Jan 2, 2022)

Thanks, that's exactly what I did.


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