# New to me Ford 4500 FEL BH 201



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Just picked up a Ford 4500 that has been sitting for 3yrs according to the previous owner. Owner said it has blow by but he got it running but let it sit because he had other tractors to use. Fast forward 3yrs nd I bought it from him. Wiring was a mess and I think I got it in order enough to turn it over using a switch from starter.

Now from what I know about diesels, they need to be able to turn over, fuel, air and compression. 

I got the motor to turn over, now I'm fighting the fuel. I started going through the fuel system changed the fuel filter after emptying the system of old diesel. Had the tank boiled, patched the pinholes in bottom of tamk and began bleeding the system again. 

I am getting fuel out of the tank to the filter. I'm needing to understand the route the fuel takes after it goes to filter. There are 2 lines out out the filter housing. One line goes to the back of injection pump and the other to the side. Does anyone know what each line is for? Is there a one piece fuel filter? The one on there now is 3 pieces (top housing/filter/bottom housing). This housing is a PITA to bleed due to the intake manifold being less than 3/8" above it. 

Thanks for the help in advance.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

I figured out that the line in the rear of the pump is an input to the IP. I read a link about the IP has a filter inside the housing. So I disassembled it and found all sorts of muck inside. Filter was clogged. Then I found a link for the metering valve getting stuck. I took the top off and it was and still is. Go figure. With all of the surprises I have found so far not really too much of a surprise. 

Link on metering valve getting stuck in the kill position and how to release--> https://www.tractorforum.com/threads/ford-2000-or-3000-project.38353/#post-272041

I figured it's time for this IP to be rebuilt. So I followed the procedure, not to bad, to pull the IP. I got it off and began searching the numbers on the side for the IP. For some reason the IP number does not match anything I am finding for this tractor. The numbers on the pump are DPA 3233F641...DSA 184... SERIAL NUMBER R48557SW. Could it be that this pump doesn't go to this tractor? 
Is it possible other IP would completely bolt up and not work? Or maybe just a different model than what I'm finding.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Looks like the IP numbers cross over to a 183ci engine. 

Link--> https://www.perkinsdieselservice.com/product/delphi-cav-pumps/

But I don't see the 201 diesel on this page for a PN. 

Closest I have come up with is PN listed on yesterdaystractor.com

Link--> https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ford-4500_Injection-Pump_D6NN9A543G.html


----------



## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

The pump # u listed goes on a 3000 tractor w/ a 183 engine..
I also noticed in your pic that the throttle isn't hooked up & the shut off lever is in the shut off position..
I don't know if that is a "before" picture.??
BUT.. the throttle needs to be pulled to WIDE OPEN for starting & the shut off needs to be in the RUN position.. {big leg towards the fan}
1 more thing> UNLESS u got a CAV filter.. there is a HUGE difference in them..
The oring ON TOP HAS TO GO "UP IN" the filter housing NOT "on" the filter.


----------



## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

The 3233f390 sup to a F300... they are both for a 201 4000 tractor.
& yes, all CAV DPA pumps w/ a "hub drive" will bolt up in that spot..
It looks as tho the orig, owner took off his "rebuilt pump" & stuck that one on to sell the machine..??


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Thanks Thepumpguysc!!

I had the IP in the "off" position, which after looking at the filter and the "kill" switch rod it may have been a blessing. There were tiny little rocks and what appeared to be mud in the filter. As for the "kill" the lever didn't make a bit of difference which way it was toggled due to the metering valve being stuck (rusted) in the kill position. The tiny little spring doesn't have enough umph to move it into the run position. When I pulled the top of IP pump off, I had a hard time moving the metering block as well. At this point it looks like a "new" pump is in order, maybe one with the correct specs for this motor. 3233f390 was the number I was coming up with as well.

Thepumpguysc, you had mentioned about the CAV filter. I thought that this is a CAV filter. When you say "up in" do you mean in the groove at the top? I had 3 o-rings for this new filter. 1 on top in groove, 1 in center where bolt passes and 1 where bottom housing and filter edges meet. 
Is this not a CAV filter and housing?


----------



## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Yes I'm talking about the groove UP IN the filter head.. the oring goes UP IN that groove, NOT ON the filter.. It seals on the LIP of the filter.. THAT is VERY IMPORTANT INFO..
The assembly IS a CAV assembly but I don't know what kind of filter cartridge u bought. Wix.?? Napa.?? CAV.??
I'll send u a prvt msg about the inj. pump..


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Ordered new IP, tank, injector o-rings and injectors. I was like a little boy waiting for Santa on Christmas morning today wondering when the UPS driver was going to show up. Wouldn't you know it, as soon as I took my shoes off he pulled up and gave me my gifts!!! Pretty much new fuel system minus the filter housing and the fuel lines.


----------



## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

That's an awful lotta money to spend w/o doing a compression check 1st..
I hope it works out in your favor tho..


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Yes it was a lot of money to spend, but I think it's justified. The IP was filled with muck, the tank had pinholes, and after using All Seal, it still had a small leaks. The injectors appeared to be original equipment and probably wouldn't have had a good spray pattern with all the muck from the IP.
I originally joined this forum to learn from those with knowledge and experience and possibly help someone else out by posting info in this forum. Thepumpguysc seems to have an abundance of knowledge considering I have seen and read his posts on multiple websites. So rather than jumping right in and not listening to those who know better than me. I decided to take his knowledge and put it to use. Thanks thepumpguysc!
I pulled out the injectors and boy were they really in there. One came out easily, the other two were a good 30-40 minutes of soaking with PB blaster and using a pry bar. I'm pretty thankful I took the time to listen. Had I not, that new IP I puchased could've been junk. There's no way they would've popped as they should've. 
When I placed my order for all the new parts I ordered 3 extra injector kits. 
I used one of my old injectors to allow my cheap diesel pressure tester adapt to it. I took it apart and pulled out the guts. I welded up the fuel input hole and then drilled out the "over fuel" hole using a 21/64" drill bit to accept the 1/8" pipe tap. The injector was supprisingly easy to tap. The fitting fit just right. Here's a pic of the kit and my homemade injector.








I dropped in a new copper gasket in the cleaned out hole for the injector and torqued to recommend torque spec (40-50ft-lbs). Readings on the cylinders were 150-200-50. Looks like this is going to be a longer thread and I'll be doing a rebuild.
Question I have about the injectors, I notice the new ones, the bottom is unscrewed a couple of theads maybe an 1/8" where they met the rest of the body of the injectors. Why? The old injectors looked like there was an o-rings there, but the new ones don't have new O-ring and the kit only included 2 small mounting copper washers, 1 copper gasket for bottom of the seal to head, and a fiber gasket for top of injector to head. Here's a pic of the old injectors although it may be kind of hard to see in the picture, maybe it's just build up of soot.


----------



## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

The threads where the bottom nut meets the body is NORMAL.. do not touch it.
That "ring" is just a dust ring.. it keeps "stuff" from falling between the inj. & head.
If its an oring.?? just go to the local box store & pick some up. BUT, I've never seen an oring.. most are cork.. Some vendors supply them, others don't.
Go back to the site where u bought'm & see if they offer them.


----------



## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

I'm glad u took the time to do a compression test.. rather than bolting all that new stuff up & trying to figure out WHY it wont work..
Before u go buying the injector dust rings.. MOST KITS will have them in it.. along w/ the copper gaskets for the bottom & top..
AGKITS makes a decent o/h kit. Good luck & keep posting pictures..
Just 1 thing to keep u outa trouble>> BEFORE u remove the front timing cover, look at the pump drive gear.. & mark it..
Most of them are stamped from the factory w/ the # of cylinders they were used for..
They used the same gear for multiple engines.. 3-4-6cyl.. That's to say, when u get everything lined up{all the timing marks} u put the pump gear in corresponding to the # of cylinders u have..{in most cases}


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

A new day and thought I'd put a picture of what I'm up against. I gotta take the backhoe off to get the tractor into more favorable conditions.








It won't fit in garage with backhoe attached. That was my main reason for trying to get it started, it would be a lot easier to remove. Going to have to do it manually without the engine running. Pretty sure I have it figured out. There are 2 hooks on the lower end of backhoe and a couple of hooks on top with bolts that hold the bottom in place and 2 hoses for operating the BH. It's going to take jack, cribbing and a little sweat to do this but much better than doing it in the elements. We're getting lucky with the weather cooperating this time of year in AZ. High of 87 today. Better than normal conditions this time of year.


----------



## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Be careful that darn thing doesn't tip over on you when you are trying to remove it!


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

I got it off manually. I had a buddy come over and help me out in case it went downhill. I used 4x6x8' and cut them up in 2' and 3' lengths to set it on in crisscross pattern. The outriggers have no pressure on them, they just flop around so we took some angle iron and made a couple of wedges to support them when they're out, then hose clamped them so they wouldn't fall out as we jacked it into place.







Now they rest on the angle iron and wood. It took about 6 hour to get it unloaded from back if the tractor, but that includes going to get the wood and eating lunch. Now I am clearing a spot in the garage to roll it in.







We rocked it and it was pretty solid. Not bad for one floor jack. The one thing I learned is the boom wanted to swing when I was setting it down, so we chained it and tossed a bolt in it so it couldn't move, kind of like towing a motorcycle in the bed if a truck.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Straed off by getting the tractor in the garage. Man handled it, lug over lug... Inch by inch, kicking a 4x6 nder the wheel to hold it in place so it wouldn't roll back. Then I got to the driveway where I had to go verticle about 1inch. I got it up and on concrete by using the floor jack and placing boards in a ramp formation.







This allowed me to be even with the concrete and use the weight to propell it back. Then did the same for the front wheels. I finally got it in the garage.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Started ripping and tearing the motor down and found some surprises. Check out the inside of the Tstat.







The inside of cylinder walls don't look too bad.







Taking it apart I was thinking the valve might have been leaking also being the cylinders looking this good. Measured the cylinder walls with a caliper and came up with 4.390. This was front to back measurement so i don't know if there was piston slap. I measure that when I get the pistons out.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

The heads had rust on the intake of all 3 runners don't know why yet, still trying to figure that out.







Then found this in the intake side of the head. A handfull of a white mushy mess fell out.














Took the head into the machine shop to have it gone through and waiting to find out what news I get from it. The guy from the machine shop said the white stuff is a sort of aluminum oxide caused by water. How did water get in the intake of all 3 runners? I heard you can get the pan off the engine by using longer bolts between engine/trans and replacing them 1 by 1. Then split the tractor engine to trans. which gives enough room to get oil pan off. Does anyone have any experience with this. I'd like to hear. All in all pretty productive day.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Got a call from the machine shop today. They let me know the valves we're in bad shape, needs a head job. These guys have a great reputation Mom and Pop shop. I've had multiple parts taken care of there and friends who have had work done there as well. 
They did a vacuum test on the head. Spec for it is 30-40, mine was lucky to get 10. This might be why my compression test is low. Waiting on parts and a head to come back, then I'm thinking of doing another compression test. Although I'm so far in the teardown now and have no history of this tractor, wondering if I should do the ring/sleeves anyway..and the clutch..and the rear main seal...and the.... Any thoughts?


----------



## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

WOW..
DEFINATELY put rings & seals in it now u have it apart.. it'll be much easier than going thru this twice..


----------



## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

+ those tractors weren't known for staying together much long after a head job..
The bottom end usually ends up spinning a bearing..
Do yourself a favor & measure the head gasket where it hasn't been torqued/smashed, & make sure the replacement is roughly the same thickness..
Are U supplying the head set or the machine shop.??
Call & ask them about valve stem seals.. see if they're putting them in/on..


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Yes, they have done these engines/heads in the past. Been in business for 50 years or so, same location. I am getting parts for them, and every block has "things" that are unique to them. This being said, it's a new learning to me. I don't know much about these blocks and I sure don't want it to go down when I am in the middle of a job, of course I don't want to break the bank getting the tractor running either. A spun bearing is definitely not a fun task to recover from. Especially being this far in. I'll know more once I get the tractor split and oil pan off. Thanks for the info thepumpguysc. Definitely seems like the best path to take.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Finally got around to pulling the FEL off of the tractor. I understand why no one else has posted their steps in doing this task. I also have a new respect for anyone who has done this work. One doesn't realize what's involved until they are doing it themselves. I tried to capture thevsteps iItook as I did this job but may have forgotten a step or two since I was more focused on getting the FEL off. Manuals are nice but are no substitute for knowledge of actually doing, now I know. So here it goes .. removing the FEL from my for 4500. I had a few buckets ready for catching all of the oil from the loader, someone said 10gallons.. there's a lot of it!!! 

*NOTE* This is not a procedure, but more of a how I did it and will not be held liable by anyone following my example.

Removed drain plug from left inside of frame. 1/2" square drive.
Removed crossover tube, which connects both sides of frame (total 4 hose clamps)
Removed downspout hose from fill unit of front left sides of tractor (2 hose clamps)
Removed hydraulic fittings under right side step and label (tape/marker) to go back on as they came off.
Removed hydraulic lines with crossover near steering wheel down shaft. I removed the entire hydraulic system as in unit disconnecting from cylinders and taking the entire unit out as one (heavy). On right side, the 'feed' line from pump will continue to leak past the hydraulic pump until the front tank is empty. I kept a small bucket there. Removed backhoe swing clamp on right side. Removed steps on left and right side and flip both brakes backwards towards rear axle. When I eventually tried rolling it backwards the brakes were causing resistance enough, where I couldn't move tractor.
Removed the elephant ear fenders.
Placed loader bucket flat, with 4x4x8' underneath, with a few hundred pound of weight in it so it so it won't shift on me. I used block. I used 4x4x8 so I could drag the bucket forward with less resistance, if needed. Placed jack stands under loader arms for safety. Removed u-bolts from rear axle. Removed front bolts from loader frame
The pads for rear u-bolts were too wide, so I had to use a chain and binder to bring them closer so they wouldn't hit the inner sides of the rear tires. They were still very close!! Removed all jack stands once I was clear of being underneath. There are 2 points (left and right) on rear of top of loader frame that rise up about 4" that need to clear as rear axle travels over the loaded frame. The front portion of loader frame will traveled over the front axle. Moved tractor backwards from loader. Removed binders, once rear u-bolts pads were clear so rear portion of loader frame can move upwards. When the pads were at the front tires they were close again, but cleared with 1/2" on each side once the front wheels were perfectly straight. Set up a couple of jack stands to "catch" the loader frame when they were coming off of the front axle.

Removing the FEL is not a task for the faint hearted. It was manually done with a floor jack on flat concrete, alot of big wrenches, cheater bars, and PB blaster. Finally, I got it off.... I think I'm not going to like it when I have to put it back together and line up the holes.


----------



## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

WOW.. Impressive.. You'll have a fine runnin machine when she's all done..
Keep us posted.. & for Gods Sake, don't hurt yourself..


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Working in garage today, spliting tractor and pulling engine. I just had to stop working and post. The front "hood" Is one heavy hunk of metal. I'm pretty sure others know, but wanted to inform those who didn't. Guessing it weighs 200lbs. I used my hydraulic table to get it off, then wrestled to floor.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Previous owner must have lived in a colded climate than AZ. I see they used a dirt and oil on radiator to prevent the air to get through the fins, allowing the diesel to heat up quicker.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Got the 4500 split today and pulled the engine.







as soon as it was split I found TDC by looking at the timing gear ahead of the injectors pump. Thanks again thepumpguysc. Marked it with at piece of tape and marker so others could reference if if needed.







Tiny little dimple that was covered by old oil. The flywheel came off easy, bolts were not very tight. The flywheel itself without pressure plate/clutch must have weighed about 100lbs!! Once I started separating the block from trans water started dripping from it on one sideside found a cavity that had rust build up in it, similar to the Tstat housing I showed a picture of.







I have no idea why it had water there. Any thoughts? 
I then needed an engine stand for the engine, found one via Craigslist and got it home to find out the top mounting holes were too small for the threaded bolts that go into the engine. I can't drill them out because there wouldn't be enough meat left on the supporting arms. So I am thinking of mounting it like this. 








Then putting another 1/4" or 5/16" plate from the upper arms to the top bolt holes. I can make the plate fairly easily. I think that would help when flipping the engine upside-down to pull crank, pistons, etc. Does anyone know the weight of a short block?


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Forgot to mention. I found the shims I read about on the lowest bolts (engine oil pan to front end) when separating the two. Thankfully I was working in clean concrete and not in the yard. I might have missed them when they dropped out. (Shims are sitting on front end next to hole with a quarter for size reference, bottom right hole.)


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Had a brilliant idea last night before bed. Grabbed some 3/4x1 1/2 stock and made my own arms to support engine on the stand. They accept the 3/4" bolt to go to the back of the head. Went with 1 1/4" longer than stock size.







I got the engine bolted on stand and started to disassemble, couple of the main caps are not wanting to come out, but I did get the pistons/rods out. Check out the far right piston rings.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Next I took off the timing cover. The dimples on the gears didn't match up and thought simewhaere in it's life it skipped a tooth. I proceeded to cycle it through and all 3 dimples lined up. It takes 47 revolutions of the cam to get it to line up again. Coincidentally, there are 47 teeth on center gear. I marked with a paint pen so I could share with others. IP on gear is injector pump.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

I got the news from machine shop today. the block needs to be bored .040 over and crank is standard on rods and main.


----------



## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

That's GOOD AND BAD news.. I think the cost of a new/different crank, outweighs the cost of a "bored over" cylinder.. I think u got out pretty good..
Care to share the cost breakdown.??
Are u having the machine shop build it back up.??
"Sometimes" its a lot cheaper in the long run because it would come w/ a warranty..


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

I'm not ready to share the cost just yet, still waiting for a grand total... Hoping it's not too GRAND. Looking at prices online for rebuilt ones was a real eye-opener. I don't know why others would pay that sort of money to buy one rebuilt when parts are relatively inexpensive... If you have the know-how. When I get done I know the engine should last for another 40-50 years providing it's taken care of. Throughout this teardown I'm beginning to believe that this tractor took a swimming lesson somewhere in it's lifetime due to the amount of water I have found where it shouldn't be.... And the piston and rings that were demolished could maybe explain a hydrolocked cylinder (speculation). Looking at the pics and description of what I have found, what do you guys think?


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

don't forget the oil pump, pull it apart and take measurements to satisfy yourself that the pump will do the job, I can remember a time when one of my mates who was a mechanic and with his father run an overnight transport business, my mate rebuilt a Bedford diesel engine back in the 70's and he did everything except the oil pump, the truck traveled a couple hundred miles on a trip north and blew the engine, father wasn't happy, just a thought for you.


----------



## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

Been there, done that! If I was going though this much of a rebuild, I'd put in new oil pump hands down.


FredM said:


> don't forget the oil pump, pull it apart and take measurements to satisfy yourself that the pump will do the job, I can remember a time when one of my mates who was a mechanic and with his father run an overnight transport business, my mate rebuilt a Bedford diesel engine back in the 70's and he did everything except the oil pump, the truck traveled a couple hundred miles on a trip north and blew the engine, father wasn't happy, just a thought for you.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

A new oil pump is on the list, I don't want to go backwards once I get her back together. Thanks for the insight.

Currently working on the front clip. I cleaned out the sand, dirt and oil from the front clip yesterday. It was 2-3" packed in there like concrete. Most of it was in the nose of the front clip.

I used the pressure washer and a 3' flatbar with the chissel end to break it up as I power washed the inside of the clip. Lots of old oily dirt came out. I'm attempting to get the power cylinder out to rebuild it as well. Although I'm having a problem with the bolt on front corner. It appears it comes out the bottom, but doesn't want to budge. 








I found a video of the bolt, on you tube, about the 5 minute mark. HeHonly shows it for a second or 2. In his comments says it drops from the bottom. 





 
I'm using a cresent with a 10' cheater bar and it won't budge. Tried with an 11/16" wrench but the wasn't enough metal on the open end to bit into to bolt and started spreading open. 

Any suggestions?


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Looks like I'm at a stopping point till tomorrow.. Thought the bolt was popping loose when I heard the cracking noise. Then I looked at the Cresent wrench.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Both sides. 

That's one stubborn bolt!!


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Woo hoo!!! I found a parts diagram at

https://partstore.agriculture.newholland.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr49534ag22054

Doesn't look like there is a cotter pin or anything else keeping it in there. I have it soaking in vinegar and water right now, hopefully it'll eat the rust and be easier to break loose. I tossed a few nuts and bolts in there as well to clean them up. Will see tommorrow when i try again.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Finally got that stuborn bolt out. I tried to double nut it, the threads must be proprietary, a 1" fine thread wouldnt fit. 
I then tried to drill the flat side to run a cotter pin through and the "bolt" laughed at me. New drill bits wouldn't even touch it. Since I began working on this bolt I broke the biggest 2 Cresent wrenches I have and streched my 11/16" wrench, I went to the biggest wrench I own... A 36" pipe wrench with the 10' cheater. It turned 1/4 of a thread. At least at this point I knew it would turn. Problem was with the 10' cheater on it the tire was in the way and couldn't get a bite on the flat sides. The pipe wrench ripped most of the threads from the bolt when I reset it. I then had a not so brilliant idea of welding the nut and using a socket. 








It got it out, but with a hefty price... That bolt is $150!!! I don't know what other option I had, spent most of the day pulling that 1 bolt out. And yes, the bolt does come out the bottom.
I then went for the center pivot pin to replace the bushings. It pulled out in the same manner of pulling a p/s pulley with a 3/8" fine thread bolt in the center of the pin. The top bushing for the pin was easy to get out, just tapped it through. I haven't figured out how to get the bottom bushing pulled out since it doesn't go all the way through.







And yes, more mud as lubricant. Those rings at the top and bottom of the center pin are supposed to be for grease. I can't even see the hole for the zerk in the bottom of the hole, due to mud packed in there.


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

the bolt thread may be UNC, "united national coarse", have you got a machine shop close by, ask if they can use a pitch gauge on the threads for you, they may even be able to turn up a couple of studs that size if you needed two off, same with nuts, ask for a quote and compare with genuine price.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Thanks FredM, that's a heck of a great idea. After all they do look similar to 1" bolts.


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Dmfoste1 -- if you had a dedicated bolt supply shop in your area, you could take the damaged stud in and see if it could be matched, ask for high tensile for the job on hand.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Well, I just got done reading 

https://www.tractorforum.com/threads/ford-3000-engine.34931/

And the issues the cooling system plays on the cylinders and cavitation that can occur. I'm wondering if I made the correct decision with having the block bored over, or if I shouldve just gone for the sleeves. I'll have to call them up and find out where I'm at with work that has been done. (sigh) I just paid to have the standard kit and sleeves shipped back .Better to find out now, than later I suppose.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Proceeding on with rebuild.

I was able to separate the front axle from the clip. I did this with the clipcupside down. (Axle up) You have to release the rear pin first. I loosened the center axle bolt but left in in a few threads. Then placed 2x4's under each side of the axle to remove the weight.Then took a whack at the bolt to drive it rearward. Took 3 hefty whacks and popped out. 
The rear pin threads to front bolt. Loosen bolt and remove. Then pulled front pin by getting another large bolt, maybe 5/8" x 10" through the front pin, grade 8. Placed a large socket that fit around outside of pin and bolt could go through. A couple of washers and nut on top of socket, then began to tighten the nut. A 1/2" ractchet/socket/extension through the rear helped to tighten. Then it got really tight.I kept turning the wrench in the outside nut. It wouldnt budge any more. I went to toolbox to get another wrench to interlock it with the 1st wrench and the pin shot out of the hole like a bullet due to the stress on it!!! Scared the $#@! out of me! These pins are HUGE!!









Proceeded to clean zerk fittings to release the old grease. Pumped some grease through to get the grease hole cleaned out of old grease. Then another grease hole appeared. So I put my finger over that hole and pumped again. Another hole appeared, then again and again... A total of 5 grease holes for the front axle. 
I'm still working on getting the steering pin hole cleaned. I have tried compressed air at 135psi, filling with grease and hitting with a hammer, and now I have brake cleaned soaking in the cavity. Hopefully it'll soften up the old grease and I'll be able the blow it through tomorrow. It's the hardest hole to clean because it's not a straight shot to the other grease holes. Here's a pic of the center steering pin hole with pin removed. Screwdriver in hole for reference. 









Also got the wheels off and tire dismounted. Took the rims to the sandblaster. Should get them back in a few days for painting. Any recommendations on front tires? They had 16-9 light truck tires on them with tubes.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Finally got the hole for steering pin degrimed. Turns out the 2nd zerk fitting under there is for that hole, and feeds grease to it. Hooked up the grease gun and pumped out all the old grease in the cavity.I felt alot better knowing I got it cleaned out finally. 
After that I started working in tearing town the front axle. There s a bolt that goes through the axlle and spindle pin and need to be removed from the pin keyway to release it. I got that bolt out on both sides along with the tie rod fittings, but cannot figure out how to get the spindle pin out. I tried hammering, and the the 12 ton press. Dang pins in both sides are STUCK!!! Only got 1 to move 3/4". I looked them up and they don't appear to be tappered so I hope I'm on the path. Others have noted the pins just fall out, make me wonder.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

I have admitted victory to the tractor today. The front spindle pins won. I can't get them to budge. Had to resort to taking it to a machine shop and ask for help. 
I tried to start rebuilding the hydraulic cylinder for the front steering and found out I was sent the wrong rebuild kit. I have drip driveway oil pan under it to catch the oil, dirt and parts. New kit is on order... waiting...








BUT, on a good note the rims were completed. I picked them up from sandblaster and got a coat of paint on them with some new "shoes". I had originally painted them yellow. All I can say is YUCK!! So I then looked on the internet for ideas of paint. As you can see I chose boring ol'grey.








Guy at the tire shop said the 4 rib tire I was looking at was "stuck in Mexico" due to the tarriff war. He said it would be a while before he could get them, with no time explanation of 'a while'. So I decided on these Camso BHL530 tires. I don't know much about them other than 10 ply and was told they'd be a good fit for that heavy of a FEL/BH.
While I was at the sandblaster I dropped off another batch of parts








I used rubber expansion plugs to seal the pin bushing holes (to resist the sand). I also left the old rubber caps on with a piece of rubber hose to cover the tie rod end bolts so the sand won't get in them, capped off with the original nut. I now am tractor front end free. Guess it's time to clean the garage up a little and get ready for parts to come back to me.
I find it somewhat comical how I was intimidated when I first got this tractor, not knowing anything about it to now, where I have touched every nut/bolt on the front end.


----------



## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Great build, I'm enjoying the follow along! You are a brave lad and an inspiration to us timid souls!


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Machine shop called up this morning and said the axle was ready for pick-up. I asked if they had any issues with getting them out. He chuckled and said, "not with a hundred ton press". So I was only 88 tons away from pressing them out myself. Good to know. 
I took them to the sandblaster and added to the pile I had made yesterday.








The engine machine shop also called today and informed me they pressure tested it at 25psi and blew a hole in cylinder #1. Looks like I'm doing liners now. 
Let's see if that makes sense. Block starts out as a 4.4" bore and is/was overbored to accommodate the .040 pistons but before I do that we have to add standard liners. So, currently the block is at 4.404", right? I'm trying to pick out sleeves again but notice many do not have spec/sizes listed. Was curious to see if there are thick walled ones.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Took a trip down to machine shop today to take a look at the blowout in the block. Here's the picture of inside cylinder. It's less than 3/16" hole at bottom of cylinder #1. Right next to flash reflection.








Shouldn't be an issue with the liners. Talking with machine shop still pressing on an will sleeve all 3 cylinders. Ordered the sleeves today, about a week to get them here and then drop off at the shop.


----------



## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

That's amazing that you can still see the cross hatch pattern.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

pogobill said:


> Great build, I'm enjoying the follow along! You are a brave lad and an inspiration to us timid souls!


Thanks pogobill!!


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

While waiting for parts to come back decided to rebuild the front hydraulic steering cylinder. All pretty straight forward. I had a little issue with getting the valve rebuild. Holding the spring down while putting on the O-ring, plastic Oring, metal Oring, end plate. So I made a tool to hold the spring from a metal coat hanger.... Ah remember METAL coat hangers?... SIGH. Damn even coat hangers went cheap! Anyway, here's a pic. Fairly simple and straight forward. Bent the tabs at 2 different lenghths to catch the spring and compressed the spring then rotated the coat hanger into position when i had it compressed. 








When the last piece screwed on and it was secure, I bent the tabs out. 
Other than that, I've been cleaning and power washing the rear portion. Used a chain and engine hoist to wheel it out of the garage. Lots of scrubbing and thick, caked on grease/dirt. Here's a beginning pic. I hope to not have a case of the POX!!


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Lots of cleaning and power washing... and found a few wire wheels in a drill do some amazing work to cut the thick grime, then rinse and repeat.... I was even able to get the belly cleaned.







There are a few spots I couldn't get to, but most of it came off. I then primed it before paint.







Then added a few coats of paint. 








Since all this was going well, (and feeling motivated) I decided to paint the rear rims. Just wire wheel the loose stuff and rust, taping, primer, and paint... nothing fancy til I have to buy tires. The tire shop wanted $50/rim to bust them loose!!! Not today guys.







It started looking so good I went out and got a new seat. I've got to figure out how I'm going to mount the toolbox back on the back of the seat.








I should be getting some front end parts back from sandblasting at the beginning of the week for reassembly.


----------



## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaang.......... Starting to look really sharp there!


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

another great looking blue tractor coming on scene, be good to see the finished restore.


----------



## dozer966 (Dec 30, 2014)

We have a toolbox mounted to the right fender on a bracket


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Thanks for the compliments guys.

I've seen them mounted on fenders too while looking at pics on internet. Thanks for the suggestion. Any thoughts why they were not in a standard location?


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

I got all the pieces back from the sandblaster. Time to start priming, painting and reassembly.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Well I got the pieces primered and painted and began reassembly. I pressed the steering bushings back in to find out they are not the correct height (part). Original PN c5nn3179a was inch in height where the new reproduction bushing is about 1 1/4" in height, PN c5nn3179b. It doesn't leave enough room to slide the steering arm in.
The bushing sits out of the hole pressed all the way to the bottom. I'm going to try the local Ag stores, hopefully they carry them in stock so I can continue the front end build before the block and head are ready to pick up this week. Otherwise, it's a week waiting for them to show up.
And all this time I thought Ford super-seeded there rev's buy changing the last letter... This is a different part with the last digit "a" changed to "b".


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Couldn't find anyone local who had them in stock, luckily they are light enough it didn't cost much to 2 day delivery them from the Midwest. I'm at a stopping point until they arrive then I can continue with the front end.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Bushings just showed up. It's true the "a" and "b" on the end of the part number are different heights. (c5nn3179*). Just need to set time aside to get back to work on it. The weekend is coming up, hopefully will get time then.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Found some time this past weekend to get the front end of tractor back together. I made a mistake on one of the spindles and pressed it on upside down. I didn't notice it until I had flipped it right side up. One side had negative camber. It took a while for me to figure out what was wrong since I thought both spindles we're interchangeable. Then I noticed the cast numbers were opposite on each side. Here's a pic of the front clip as it is now.







All that blue sure is purdy. 
I got a call from the machine shop today when I went for lunch and said engine was ready to pick up. I skipped lunch to pick it up. Finally got all my parts back and might be able to hear the engine run in the next week or so. 







...and some other parts they worked for me.... All nice and clean to boot!!!







I have to get new tappets (lifters) for it, but at least it on my time schedule now. Does anyone have information on the break in proceedure once it is put back together and I am ready to start for the first time? I've searched the internet and haven't found anything for it.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

I was just inventoring my parts and had forgot to order the lifters. I have them on order now!!! I'm excited to hear this baby purr for the first time!


----------



## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

On rebuilt engines I've had in the past, they add something to the oil like a lapping compound, that helps seat the rings and all. You usually drain that oil after X amount of time, not many hours like your typical oil. One engine I had rebuilt was really tight and used a lot of fuel at first and was really prone to over heating until it finally wore in. Things are really starting to come together for you there. Looking awesome!



Dmfoste1 said:


> Found some time this past weekend to get the front end of tractor back together. I made a mistake on one of the spindles and pressed it on upside down. I didn't notice it until I had flipped it right side up. One side had negative camber. It took a while for me to figure out what was wrong since I thought both spindles we're interchangeable. Then I noticed the cast numbers were opposite on each side. Here's a pic of the front clip as it is now.
> View attachment 47129
> All that blue sure is purdy.
> I got a call from the machine shop today when I went for lunch and said engine was ready to pick up. I skipped lunch to pick it up. Finally got all my parts back and might be able to hear the engine run in the next week or so.
> ...


----------



## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

Be sure to post some video!


Dmfoste1 said:


> I was just inventoring my parts and had forgot to order the lifters. I have them on order now!!! I'm excited to hear this baby purr for the first time!


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Hoodoo Valley said:


> Be sure to post some video!


Will do if I can figure it out.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Found some time this weekend to start assembly of the engine. I got the Piston rings on the pistons.








Then began oiling and dropping in the flat tappets. The cam went in next. And then Murphy came out to play.... Sigh...
Main bearings are incorrect for this engine. One of the thrust bearings doesn't have an oil passage hole cut into it.
















The vendor lists them as a direct replacement. Guess I'll be making a phone call in the morning to get it sorted out... Back to waiting for parts.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Did some research on the bearings. I went to manufacture website and the 192 and 201 use the same main bearings.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Well, finally got some work done on the tractor. Engine is together.








And mated back with the tractor. It wasn't too bad getting all the holes to line up. I had more of an issue with the gears lining up, but not a big deal. I had to rotate the engine a bit to have it slide into the transmission.








The front clip was fun lining up just because of the weight. But it too went right on.








I've been cleaning all those little parts that bolt back to the engine to make them pretty. Here's how it sits now. Might be able to fire it up in the next couple of days. 








I'm starting to get my garage back with less parts laying around. Sure glad I labeled all the nut/bolts with ziplock bags.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

I had to clean the inside of the intake and couldn't find a wire brush long enough for the drill. So made one from a copper wire brush plumbers use. Worked pretty good. 








Just cut the hadle off of the one, drilled the center of some roundbar that was laying around and put a little tacj weld on it.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Has anyone else bought the replacement wiring harness made by sparex PN 61981? I got a generic wiring diagram with it and it doesn't trace out all the wires, which is somewhat confusing.









I also have a wiring schematic that shows a positive wire from +Batt to ignition, which doesn't translate to the manufacturers diagram. 








Ohming the ignition wire (#1) out it goes to light switch (#1) with no other leads going to + side of Battery.Has anyone else had this issue?


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

I got the wiring sorted out. Just because the wires are color coded doesn't mean they are correct. I had to swap 2 of the wires on the regulator. +12v for batt and +12v that goes to "D" on regulator. Now priming the oil. I marked the gear that runs off the cam.








Then gave the engine a bump with starter. Shows the gear is going counter clockwise.








I then placed my 5/16 rod in the hole for the oil pump. 







and found out there's not enough room to spin it with a drill when I put the oil filter and cover back on. So I did some research on how to prime an engine without the oil pump. There are 2 oil galley plugs down and to the right. It turns out these can be used to prime the engine with oil using a homemade hose connected to oil feed system. I'm going to try to get this done today. I might also look at a gauge for oil pressure. Having just a oil light feels risky to me.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Where the oil pump gear is there's a huge Allen which I didn't have.








So I used a bolt with a nut and wrench to tighten it down. 








Also note the homemade oil priming system I came up with going through an oil galley hole. Using a drill pump I was able to charge the oil in the system then replace the plug. I got it to 20 psi with the drill. After 4 qts I added to rest of the oil in valve cover and turned the engine with the key. The oil pump took it to just under 40 psi. Next I'll be priming the fuel system. Also made an extension to the idiot light for a mechanical oil gauge by T'ing off the sending unit.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Always a good idea to set the valve lash on a new rebuild. Spec for the 201 diesel is .014-.016 intake and .017-.019 exhaust. 








If the valve lash is not correct you can run into multiple problems like no compression, valves hitting the top of pistons, or bent push rods. Any type of ticking noise is not normal on a rebuild. I had that issue, a faint tick when I started turning the engine over. Luckily for me, I pulled the valve cover and found it before it fired. All 6 push rods bent due to the block being decked and the valve being set to the old worn out tollerances.








I'm now getting a nice "puh... puh.. puh" out the exhaust with no ticking noise. Going to finish priming the fuel system.
Crossing my fingers.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Woo hoo!!! I got I fired up and sounds great! Only ran it for a few seconds without coolant. I still need to hook up the hydraulic pump for the FEL and didn't want to run the hydraulic pump dry. I'll try to get the video posted on line when I get to a computer. Woo hoo!


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Here's the video link


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Just finished cleaning and painting the hood and accidentally painted the sticker on the inside.








I had a couple of questions about it. 
Can anyone here decifer the numbers for me or know a website? Does anyone make replacement stickers? I cleaned it off so I could read it better. Word to the wise don't use a razorblade. You can cut your sticker, like I did in the top left corner.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Found a good website for decifering the numbers.

http://www.springfieldbiz.com/oaktree/codes_short2.html

Looks to be same as numbers behind the starter.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Hoping somebody can help me out with this, I don't remember which line is pressure on my steering Ram. Trying to figure out if it is the left or right that the pressure line hooks up to.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Since we left off Pogobill helped find a video of the orientation for the steering ram hoses. I just got them in place and had all of the hydraulic hoses rebuild. They we're in pretty bad shape. You can see the 1st set of wire and I wasn't going to chance it.








The weekend is coming up and looking forward to getting more done.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Okay I got all the new hoses for FEL on the tractor and need to fill the system up with 134 oil.
Am I pouring this in the larger hole located under the cover on the hood? Smaller hole is just the dipstick, right? Anyone know what it should hold in gallons? I read somewhere the bucket should be on the ground when filling, is this true as well? Wish me luck!!! I'm excited about getting it running. Thanks for the help in advance.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

I got the hydraulic system all filled up. Power steering works great, lift arms and bucket work great and goes into gear with no issues. I have a leak out the rear axles where the brake rods go through and my upper radiator hose seems to have too much suction on it and it is collapsing. I don't know why the upper radiator hose is collapsing, too much vacuum on the system do the cap, Maybe?
Here's a picture the arms up in the air after I got all the hoses on with fluid and it running. All my work finally paid off.


----------



## Kenyon77 (Jul 8, 2017)

This is an AWESOME build! I have the same tractor, and it is my first tractor. The first thing I had to do was rebuild the engine and IP. Thepumpguysc helped me a lot too! Looking back, I wish I had taken the time to make everything purdy like you did. I have been just painting parts as I replace/repair them, mostly so I can remember what I have done, and what I haven't. I just had all of the hydraulic cylinders rebuilt last week and have been using it to dig a pond. 

Anyway, enough about me. Thank you for sharing your build! It looks like you did a great job, and I learned a lot from following along!


----------



## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Did you replace the thermostat ?, if this is not opening and the bypass is clogged, this will cause the suction on your top hose, keep an eye on the temp gauge and this will show if the thermostat is working ok, only other thing to cause the suction is the radiator, but you have done all of the good things on your rebuild.

Great to see you finally have this up and running.


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

Kenyon77 said:


> This is an AWESOME build! I have the same tractor, and it is my first tractor. The first thing I had to do was rebuild the engine and IP. Thepumpguysc helped me a lot too! Looking back, I wish I had taken the time to make everything purdy like you did. I have been just painting parts as I replace/repair them, mostly so I can remember what I have done, and what I haven't. I just had all of the hydraulic cylinders rebuilt last week and have been using it to dig a pond.
> 
> Anyway, enough about me. Thank you for sharing your build! It looks like you did a great job, and I learned a lot from following along!


Thanks for the compliments!


----------



## Dmfoste1 (Apr 22, 2019)

FredM said:


> Did you replace the thermostat ?, if this is not opening and the bypass is clogged, this will cause the suction on your top hose, keep an eye on the temp gauge and this will show if the thermostat is working ok, only other thing to cause the suction is the radiator, but you have done all of the good things on your rebuild.
> 
> Great to see you finally have this up and running.


Thanks FredM... Yes Tstat was new. My guess is the weep hole may have got a bit of silicone on it when I assembled. I'll have to pull it back out and boil a pot of water on the stove and submerge it to see if it's actually opening. That's trick we used to use when I was younger to visually see it open.

As far as the brake boots, they're readily available at the Ford New Holland dealer just up the road from me. A bit overpriced, but I don't have to wait to pick them up. Sometimes worth to pay extra money so I don't have to wait or pay for shipping.


----------

