# 1973 Massey Ferguson 135 will not crank and only turns 6 revolutions by hand and halts



## EW1 (Sep 29, 2021)

Hi, we are new to the forum and in desperate need of help.

Our 1973 British Massey 135 with a 3 xyl. Perkins Diesel engine refuses to crank or start. We can rotate the engine by power bar and only for max of 6 revolutions and then it stops dead like hitting a wall. The injector pump and injectors were rebuilt at Massey dealership and ran fine. The starter has sonce been replaced along with the battery both new.

We pulled the injectors and checked for fluids in cylinders -none were found. Checked all pistons for movement and for any hint of a broken connecting rod but all is good.

All fluids are full and engine is due for oil change soon. Fuel filters look clear. Tractor has not run for over a year due to this condition. We wonder if crank and other components are not being lubricated because we cannot turn engine fast enough and only 6 revolutions. When it last ran, it was turned off properly and displayed no symptoms, knocks or bangs. We have tried all we can think of since spring, to no avail.

We desperately need our 135 and are hoping that someone there can help by providings possible reasons for this issue and how to fix it. The coming to a dead stop is a real mystery. Could it be a timing chain lockup or other?

We would certainly appreciate any and all help in this regard.

Thank you, EW1


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Hello EW1, welcome to the tractor forum.

Your 135 has timing gears, not a timing chain. And this is exactly where I would look for an obstruction (broken teeth???). Pull the timing gear cover and check it out.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

I'm curious about how you came to the "six revolutions" part. Revolutions of what? The crankshaft? This is determined how? By referencing a point or mark on the front pulley or flywheel? Rotating the engine six times and it suddenly stops? You're turning it with the starter or by hand somehow? Can you it then turn backwards six times and it stops again? 

Please explain a little more about how you're testing this out and coming to your conclusions.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

A dropped valve would most likely be the culprit, but that would show up in two revolutions.

Remove the tappet cover and check for a sticking valve.


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## EW1 (Sep 29, 2021)

BigT said:


> Hello EW1, welcome to the tractor forum.
> 
> Your 135 has timing gears, not a timing chain. And this is exactly where I would look for an obstruction (broken teeth???). Pull the timing gear cover and check it out.


Hi Thank you. We were at a loss here. Would this possibly explain the drag on rotating the engine. There was no major event, noise or impact. Simply drove up to the house after some light snowblowing, turned it off and it quit, that was it. 

We are definitely going to check the gears out. 

Thank you so much for replying.

EW1


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## EW1 (Sep 29, 2021)

Fedup said:


> I'm curious about how you came to the "six revolutions" part. Revolutions of what? The crankshaft? This is determined how? By referencing a point or mark on the front pulley or flywheel? Rotating the engine six times and it suddenly stops? You're turning it with the starter or by hand somehow? Can you it then turn backwards six times and it stops again?
> 
> Please explain a little more about how you're testing this out and coming to your conclusions.


Hi and thanks.

Yes, marked the crankshaft pulley and it rotates 6 times and stops. Then, we can rotate 6 times backwards. We did this by hand with a powerbar and also by jacking up the left rear tire, putting it in 4th gear and forcefully move the wheel. (2 of us). There is a lot of drag, so much so that the new starter just groans and will not crank the engine. This holds true with new fully charged battery and also with a jumper battery.

Thanks

EW1


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## EW1 (Sep 29, 2021)

FredM said:


> A dropped valve would most likely be the culprit, but that would show up in two revolutions.
> 
> Remove the tappet cover and check for a sticking valve.


Hi, thank you. 
I am not fully experienced with diesels. I work mostly with gas engines and antique vehicles at that. Now, since this is a diesel with injectors, I guess I must have exhaust valves or some means to evacuate burnt gases. So am I looking at single exhaust valves where one may have dropped. If so, should I find remnants of valve end locks? Valve springs out of place? I would have thought that I could not rotate 6 full revolutions of the crank, but it does feel like after 6 that I hit a wall. I will pull the valve covers and have a good look. As I indicated to others, there is serious drag to turn the engine over. Too much for the old and new starter to overcome. This was the case from the get go in spring when we started looking at it.

Thanks

EW1


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

I mentioned 2 revolutions with a valve problem, no matter what, you will end up having to pull the head and sump, something has failed internally in the engine, check the timing gears first though.

Both diesel and gas operate the same mechanically, both 4 strokes, and both have inlet and exhaust valves, the only difference is gas uses spark to ignite the fuel and diesel uses compression to ignite the fuel.


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## EW1 (Sep 29, 2021)

FredM said:


> I mentioned 2 revolutions with a valve problem, no matter what, you will end up having to pull the head and sump, something has failed internally in the engine, check the timing gears first though.
> 
> Both diesel and gas operate the same mechanically, both 4 strokes, and both have inlet and exhaust valves, the only difference is gas uses spark to ignite the fuel and diesel uses compression to ignite the fuel.


Hi, thanks.

Yes, I found some images for the Perkins. It does have intake and exhaust valves. Basically, it appears that the diesel is no different than a fuel injected gas engine. Like I said, I am diesel illiterate but learning fast out of necessity.

I will pull the rocker cover and then timing cover. I read that it will require a special tool to reinstall the cover to ensure perfect and equal clearance around the seal. I will call them and see if still available.
The timing gear cover might explain the serious drag on turning the engine. It's a real mystery how this might have occured but things can let go anytime. It is a 1973 after all despite super low hours and an easy life.
Thanks for your help. This gives us a place to start.

Thanks again.

EW1


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

If you are getting 6 complete engine revolutions before the binding occurs, that would mean that all the gear drives have had at least 3 complete revolutions.
I would recommend pulling the injectors out and trying to rotate the engine again you may be hydro locking it from fuel.
Also verify that your pto is not engaged and disconnect the pto if connected to something.


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## EW1 (Sep 29, 2021)

LouNY said:


> If you are getting 6 complete engine revolutions before the binding occurs, that would mean that all the gear drives have had at least 3 complete revolutions.
> I would recommend pulling the injectors out and trying to rotate the engine again you may be hydro locking it from fuel.
> Also verify that your pto is not engaged and disconnect the pto if connected to something.


Hi, thanks.

I have already pulled the injectors and checked all cylinders, pistons etc. The cylinders are bone dry and pistons etc. No broken connecting rods or any clunking. My first thought was blown head gasket and expected to find at least one cylinder full of coolant and was surprised when all were dry.

The PTO was disengaged and both gear selectors in neutral. So nothing is causing drag from that standpoint.

Thanks again for your input and advice. It is certainly appreciated.

EW1


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Check your timing gears first, and post back.


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## EW1 (Sep 29, 2021)

Will do soon as we can. Thank you.

EW1


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Does your tractor have an internal hydraulic pump or is it externally fitted?, might be another area to check.


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Is this possible?

There is a damaged tooth on the idler gear and a damaged tooth on one of the other gears. The gear train locks when the damaged teeth coincide, but both damages passes the other, undamaged, teeth. It takes 6 revolutions on the crankshaft gear to make the damaged teeth coincide again.

On the other hand, that would not explain the drag. Could the idler gear bushing/bearing have been damaged so the idler gear does not line or engage with the other gears correctly (and that is what caused the teeth damages)?


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

I would look at the bottom of the crank gear.. u might find a bolt or something substantial that fell in thru the oil fill.??
Or 1 other thing.. on the inj pump drive gear there is a dowel pin that locates the inj pump.. it may have gotten pressed out if the inj pump was put on wrong.. just a thought..


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## EW1 (Sep 29, 2021)

FredM said:


> Does your tractor have an internal hydraulic pump or is it externally fitted?, might be another area to check.


Hi, thank you.
Our 135 has an external large fuel injection pump. I will be checking the timing gears once cover is pulled. It may be that teeth may be missing. Is there any way internally that the pump could be causing the lockup? Both the injector pump and all injectors were rebuilt by a Massey dealer. The other issue is the serious drag that makes rotating the engine difficult. I am hoping by pulling the cover that some light may be shed on this. We are slated for a solid week of heavy rain and shop and barn already have equipment torn apart for repairs. It has been a challenging season this year between orchard mower, bush hog and forklift. Murphys law and all. Our 135 is our only tractor with duallies for our uneven terrain, so it's important we sort it out.

Thank you once again

EW1


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## EW1 (Sep 29, 2021)

Hacke said:


> Is this possible?
> 
> There is a damaged tooth on the idler gear and a damaged tooth on one of the other gears. The gear train locks when the damaged teeth coincide, but both damages passes the other, undamaged, teeth. It takes 6 revolutions on the crankshaft gear to make the damaged teeth coincide again.
> 
> ...


Hi thank you for the picture and timing marks. Your scenario makes a lot of sense and holds possible answers. Soon as our week of heavy rains stops, we will pull the cover and see what is what. The drag doesn't make sense but maybe fragments are causing havoc. In reinstalling the cover, I wonder if I can use the crankshaft pulley to center the timing gear cover crank seal to ensure optimum proper clearance equally.
Thank you for your input. Hopefully, we can pull the cover soon.

EW1


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## EW1 (Sep 29, 2021)

thepumpguysc said:


> I would look at the bottom of the crank gear.. u might find a bolt or something substantial that fell in thru the oil fill.??
> Or 1 other thing.. on the inj pump drive gear there is a dowel pin that locates the inj pump.. it may have gotten pressed out if the inj pump was put on wrong.. just a thought..


Hello, thank you for your reply. This is a very interesting thought. Even though the injection pump and injectors rebuild was done at a Massey dealer, mistakes can happen. Can the dowel hole be seen with the timing cover off or must we remove the injector pump? Also, if I align the timing marks as in the service diagram, do I also have to ensure the tdc position of #1 piston or by aligning these marks, the #1 piston position will look after itself?

Thank you once again.

EW1


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

EW1 said:


> Hi thank you for the picture and timing marks. Your scenario makes a lot of sense and holds possible answers. Soon as our week of heavy rains stops, we will pull the cover and see what is what. The drag doesn't make sense but maybe fragments are causing havoc. In reinstalling the cover, I wonder if I can use the crankshaft pulley to center the timing gear cover crank seal to ensure optimum proper clearance equally.
> Thank you for your input. Hopefully, we can pull the cover soon.
> 
> EW1


I have not been wrenching on Massey Ferguson, the picture I attached to the previous post is from a Fordson Dexta/Super Dexta shop manual. I know that the engines are alike (F3.152, A3.152, AD.152) but there are surely differences between them.

I now found a shop manual for MF135. It is printed in 1969, so it may be too old for a 1973 tractor. Anyhow, I attach a piece of it. They have mixed information regarding 3- and 4-cylinders, so read carefully. Perhaps it has some useful information.


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## EW1 (Sep 29, 2021)

Thank you for the attachments. I may have mixed up discussions, sorry, my bad. I looked at the attachments and I think they will be useful. I already have to be careful because my 135 is a British tractor with definite differences. We ran into this before.

Thank you once again

EW1


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

QUOTE: " There is a damaged tooth on the idler gear and a damaged tooth on one of the other gears. The gear train locks when the damaged teeth coincide, but both damages passes the other, undamaged, teeth. It takes 6 revolutions on the crankshaft gear to make the damaged teeth coincide again."

That is exactly what I anticipated. Beyond that, you will have to determine what caused the teeth to break.


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## EW1 (Sep 29, 2021)

Thanks,

I am thinking that this is what I will find as soon as I remove the cover. I cannot get to it until this monsoon weather quits. We have heavy equipment apart in the shop as well as in the driveshed barn as well. Everything happening at once. Murphys law. This scenario would certainly explain a lot.

This has been an amazing forum and I am grateful to everyone who has stepped up to help us here. You folks are in a league of your own.

Thank you so much. I will keep you all posted.

EW1


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