# Clueless in Seattle



## kkapp123 (Aug 6, 2011)

Hi, I'm new to this form. I have just bought a used 1996 Yard-man Model 999 (MTD) with a Kohler Command 22 HP (CH22S). I have roughly 3 plus acres of lawn and it is heavy because I've been short a mower. Anyway, it ran fine when I purchased it and it ran fine when the previous owner dropped it off last evening including around a 5 or 10 min spin mowing heavy grass. It started for me fine today and I ran for an hour or so when it suddenly started to loose power and eventually completely stop even though I disconnected all power. I did restart after a few minutes. Then it stopped off and on during the day, at inconsistent intervals. Sometimes only running 15 seconds before shutting down and other times 10 minutes or more. At first it seemed to happen going up a small grade. After it cools down for 10 or 15 min, it starts and runs fine for longer periods. The temps today were 60-65F. I ran until dark. I switched out the fuel filter mid day as it seem it may have been starved for fuel and it ran for around 45 minutes (must have cooled down). 2 or 3 times out of the 30 or so times it stopped, the engine popped a few times (seeming like ignition). Running at around 60 degs in the dark, with the hood open, it seem to run fine. Could the engine be creating enough heat to cause the gas to stop flowing? The gas tank is inches from the exhaust. The fuel filter is almost resting on the metal exhaust (muffler?) shroud and it gets almost too hot to touch. Should I move it?


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## dangeroustoys56 (Jul 26, 2010)

Check under the flywheel shroud for a mouse nest - could be over heating from lack of airflow.

Id move the fuel line/filter away from the exhaust definitely- if it burns thru it could cause a fire- motor could also be suffering from vapor lock as well.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

What weight oil is in it? Should be SAE30.Also,make sure all the cooling shrouds are in place. I had a customer ask why his tractor was running so hot,and when I looked under the hood,No shrouds.He took them off,because he thought it would get more air!


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## Thomas (Nov 1, 2006)

If you have air compressor 100psi blow engine etc..ever nook cranny you can also air filter.


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## kkapp123 (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks Dangerous, I'll check into that. Was thinking debris in fuel tank also, but I believe the fuel is drawn upward so it might not suck up any debris. Am I correct? Anyway, I might try presurrized air after removing the fuel filter. Thanks, Keith


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## kkapp123 (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks John (I assume), Using SAE10-30 (Not sure why that matters - splain?) As far as cooling shrouds, the only thing missing is the top plastic cover on the engine that is over the carb and air filter. The engine fits snuggly into the rather enclosed hood and side panels which are somewhat loovered. I haven't taken the side panels off to look. Do you think that because of the side panel design that this spec engine might not have had side shrouds (Honestly, I don't know what they should look like at this time. It does seem to get very hot unde the hood, even in our unusually cool Seattle weather this year. OH! - we might hit mid 70 today. Getting a little hot for me (JUST KIDDING!) Thanks, Keith


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## TecumsehBriggs (Jun 17, 2011)

Mostly all air-cooled engines, including Volkswagens, use shrouds to direct air around the engine. Remove them & there is very reduced cooling. Oil weight is important because aircooled engines run hot. Use SAE30, not 10w30. 30 wt is heavier & better able to transfer the heat away from the moving parts as well as not break down as quickly. Clean the fins, make sure the shrouds are in place, change the oil, check the spark plugs for proper type & gap, check/clean/replace air filter. Keep all fuel lines away from extreme heat; insulate them if possible. This will cause vapor lock. If you still have starting issues, check the ignition coil, if so equipped.

Sometimes removing the side panels helps.


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## kkapp123 (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks for the reply, I assume "detergent" 30W? I blew out all clippings of which there was some. I'm mowing what was done with a brush hog twice this year and quite heavy bunches of lawn clippings from that is getting in underneath the engine apparently being pushed ahead of the mower from what I can determine. I see clippings begin to fill the round plastic cover that is like a circular grate so am blowing that out. I moved the fuel lines and put a new in line fuel filter in a cooler area towards the front of the motor. It still quit on me after all that at around 1 and a half hours of mowing. I let it cool down blew it out again and ran for another half hour or so before I shut down for the day. So still have the problem. And it starts hard cold. I have an oil filter and will change the oil soon. An air filter is on order. I'll check the plug gap tomorrow. Runs nice once it gets going. Any more thoughts?


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## dangeroustoys56 (Jul 26, 2010)

Hmm - id check the magneto gap also( i use the cardbord from a oil filter box for the gap)- also wondering if the magneto might have a crack/weakness in it- like when it expands it quits , when cools off starts again.

Ive run all different weights of oil over the years - ive never noticed a difference in the briggs splash motors of mine ( they all run hot reguardless) - everything from SAE 30 to 5w20/30 , 10w30 even 15w30 - also add a good dose of lucas oil in as well - never had one come part yet and range in age from 8 to 40 years old . As long as the oil/filter is changed at regular intervals it shouldnt matter- but when in doubt go with factory motor oil specs.


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## TecumsehBriggs (Jun 17, 2011)

kkapp123 said:


> *I'm mowing what was done with a brush hog twice this year and quite heavy bunches of lawn clippings from that is getting in underneath the engine apparently being pushed ahead of the mower from what I can determine.It still quit on me after all that at around 1 and a half hours of mowing. I let it cool down blew it out again and ran for another half hour or so before I shut down for the day. So still have the problem. *And it starts hard cold.QUOTE]
> 
> 
> There ya go. You're overworking the poor thing!


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## farmertim (Dec 1, 2010)

welcome to the forum klapp123, My wife was rrunning her little Murray and it kept stalling due to the heavy workload, she isn't really mechanically sympathetic.

I told her to cut the grass at the highest level first and then go over it at the lower deck height a second time, run in 1st or second gear and keep the revs high.
no issues after that, mind you the filters and services had all been done when I bought it so, now I need a bagger or a sweeper.

But i think that all of the previous adice is very sound.

Cheers:beer:
:aussie:


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

Most engines should use SAE 30 oil,as Tecumsehbriggs said,it increases the heat/wear protection.HOWEVER,most manufacturers also recommend using SAE10w30,in cold weather(45deg.or less)due to the easier starting.As for the mowing load,make sure you use high throttle,and slower speeds,as well as a higher cutting height,if the grass is very high or thick.While this means cutting twice,it will save overloading the tractor's abilities,and it will last longer.Make sure your blades are kept sharp,also.


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## dangeroustoys56 (Jul 26, 2010)

I agree with the blades- i helped my nephew mow his 6" tall yard with my 99 murray about a week ago - i kept having to go back over some spots ( need to do its yearly maintence- too dang hot right now), but since his tractor had brand new blades it cut like butter.


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## kkapp123 (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks, I was told the blades were sharpened at a mower rebuild a month before I bought the unit. The guy I bought it from had 6 acres and he used it some before selling the tractor. He bought a new Kubota TLB. Anyway, I haven't looked a them. I did change my oil now, but all is mowed, so guess I'll see when the time comes for another mowing. Thanks again, Keith


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## Country Boy (Mar 18, 2010)

I usually recommend 10w-30 oil in larger engines (battery start for tractors, rear engine riders, etc) because no one seems to change oil mid season, and I kept getting calls in late fall that their mower wouldn't crank over very fast and they just *had* to get their leaves picked up. Most of the more modern engines on units we sell recommend 10w-30 first and SAE 30 as an acceptable substitute. The SAE 30 is not recommended for cooler temps such as found in fall in the more northern latitudes. Our distributor recommended 10w-30 for a Command series engine a customer was having running issues with because using the wrong weight oil can cause the hydraulic lifters to collapse (or so they said).

Keith, does that mower have the Smart-Spark system? If you can get the model and spec number off the engine, I could look it up for you. The Smart-Spark system could be failing, and that would affect your ignition timing and prevent the unit from firing. We have a customer (same one as mentioned above) that has a Command 22 in his Ariens Grand Sierra garden tractor. He keeps having issues with it losing power and dying out on him. It also is hard to start cold. I suspect that the Smart-Spark module is bad because if he warms up that module, it starts just fine when cold. Smart-Spark wasn't used on all the Command engines, depended on the OEM.


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## kkapp123 (Aug 6, 2011)

Country Boy; Thanks for the response on the spark system. My Command 22 is spec #66527, S/N 2434700097. I'd like to know what you find out. Thanks, Keith


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## Country Boy (Mar 18, 2010)

I'll look it up today and see what I can find for you.


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## kkapp123 (Aug 6, 2011)

It's been a while since I heard from you, Country Boy. Did you ever find info on my CH22S? Anyway, I believe I have "finally" found my problem. Before I purchased the unit, someone had gone through and disconnected all of the lockout switches (except for the brake pedal). There is one that I have no idea what it disconnected and I'm hoping it isn't a fuse or something along the line of protection, but it had a jumper wire pushed into it. I noticed the connector had melted somewhat, so I took it apart and removed the entire connector. I wrapped bare wire to bare wire and covered it with electrical tape. Rather crude, but it seems to have solved the problem. All that for something so small. The last time it died was when I had my headlights on, so it must have been electrical load, and probably corrosion, that caused a disconnect. Thanks all!


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