# ys-4500?



## wjjones

I can turn the key as if to rock the engine from run to start constantly and it will finally start. If i just try to hold the key it will try to turn but stop mid crank. Its almost like i could turn the flywheel with my hand to help it, and it would start. What do you think bad/weak starter, or solenoid?? The battery is a new 350ca..


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## dangeroustoys56

Ive had that issue- after changing everything BUT the starter, it would still do the '2 turns and stop' - i swapped another starter on and cranked right up. 

Twins have a bad tendency to wear out starters quickly - more often then singles- twin cylenders also need a whole lot more juice to crank over that extra piston mass easier.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Ive had that issue- after changing everything BUT the starter, it would still do the '2 turns and stop' - i swapped another starter on and cranked right up.
> 
> Twins have a bad tendency to wear out starters quickly - more often then singles- twin cylenders also need a whole lot more juice to crank over that extra piston mass easier.



Thankyou for the input i was kinda leaning toward the starter but didnt want to buy one, and it end up being something else.. I have checked all the connections, and the solenoid, and bought a new battery. I guess that could only leave the starter as the culprit. It has been doing this same thing on, and off for about 2 years now sometimes it will fire right up, and sometimes it kicks its heels up, and wants to be a pain in the backside.


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## wjjones

Yep on further research i have found that sears installed a single cylinder starter on this twin cylinder engine. I have found the starter, and the sub replacement on several sites to be the same result. This means they installed a single cylinder starter on a twin engine from the factory. My question is what the H**L where they thinking!!


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## Panelman55

I have a 20 hp John Deere with a Briggs engine, it has a good starter.... the hole in the block is its problem. If you want to compare some notes we'll see if it will work.



Panelman55


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## wjjones

Panelman55 said:


> I have a 20 hp John Deere with a Briggs engine, it has a good starter.... the hole in the block is its problem. If you want to compare some notes we'll see if it will work.
> 
> 
> 
> Panelman55


 I may take you up on that if they dont come back with a positive answer for me. I emailed sears yesterday to see who was looking cross eyed when they put the single cylinder starter on there to begin with. You would think someone would have caught that before putting it out on the market for sale. I would hope atleast they would have a corrected the problem by issuing a new starter part# for the correct starter.


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## dangeroustoys56

This is what my starters on my twins look like:

Electric Replacement Starter  Briggs & Stratton Twin Cylinder Engine | Electric Start Motors | Northern Tool + Equipment

Ive just swapped the starter motors themselves under the fancy cast aluminum adapter ( that bolts to the motor) with others i had lying around - they work perfectly fine. I did it on my big '86 GTII.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> This is what my starters on my twins look like:
> 
> Electric Replacement Starter — Briggs & Stratton Twin Cylinder Engine | Electric Start Motors | Northern Tool + Equipment
> 
> Ive just swapped the starter motors themselves under the fancy cast aluminum adapter ( that bolts to the motor) with others i had lying around - they work perfectly fine. I did it on my big '86 GTII.


 These are also on ebay i think this is the best route to take Thankyou for the info!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Brig...Zp5197Q2em7QQcategoryZ6755QQitemZ280382962487


My only problem is mine requires a 16 tooth gear so i would have to swap gears.


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## Panelman55

The one I have looks like the fee-bay model. I know it was good and will send it your way for whatever it cost to cover my forum membership plus shipping.
All you need to do is say the word.




Panelman55


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## dangeroustoys56

BUT - what kind of gear did the starter originally come with? If its a plastic type - put a plastic gear on it - metal types are for the cast iron rings built into the flywheel- put a metal gear on the aluminum starter ring ( rivited to the flywheel) and itll eat the aluminum ring right off.

Plastic gears may be annoying somtimes ( when they strip off the teeth or break) - but its easier then replacing a flywheel.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> BUT - what kind of gear did the starter originally come with? If its a plastic type - put a plastic gear on it - metal types are for the cast iron rings built into the flywheel- put a metal gear on the aluminum starter ring ( rivited to the flywheel) and itll eat the aluminum ring right off.
> 
> Plastic gears may be annoying somtimes ( when they strip off the teeth or break) - but its easier then replacing a flywheel.



I will have to check on that i think it is metal teeth though.


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## Panelman55

Mine has plastic teeth on it now. If that's any help.





Panelman55


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## wjjones

Panelman55 said:


> Mine has plastic teeth on it now. If that's any help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Panelman55



Thankyou for the info i will keep you in mind..for now the problem has just went away.. I am hoping it was just where it sat all winter, and now the battery has had a chance to charge good..it starts right up now so far, and hasnt acted up anymore..yet..


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## dangeroustoys56

Those electrical gremlins are acting up ...lol! Could be from sitting- lil moisture caused a bit of corrosion? 

The mustve worked their way down here- went to mow with my '99 murray thursday - battery: dead ( left it hooked up since who knows when)- also noticed the dang plastic starter gear is half flat , missing teeth and was sticking - those gremlins also mustve let the air out of a couple tires on it as well........:lmao:


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## rsmith335

I'd say, barn spoiled.:lmao:


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## dangeroustoys56

I used to have mine under tarps- i have em in a temp garage, i need to throw some stone down in there to keep the dirt off em tho - I bot a couple off my neighbor a few years ago - those things sat outside uncovered for years- no wonder why they were all rusty and in bad shape- his current tractor( a scotts) is all faded out and has 2 flat tires - waitin to see if he puts that out front as well.


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## Panelman55

Did anyone check the large nut between the steering wheel and the seat? :lmao:Bye


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## wjjones

Panelman55 said:


> Did anyone check the large nut between the steering wheel and the seat? :lmao:Bye



Yep thats been loose for awhile, and i think the threads are stripped so theres no hope for tightening..:lmao:


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## wjjones

Its doing it again and i have noticed if it helps any it makes a squeling noise if you hold the key in the start position?? It stops for ?? and out of the blue it will act up for a little while and then back to normal again..


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## wjjones

I dont know how, or have ever seen a solenoid go out this way but that is what it was.. it completely went out today, and when i bypassed it (solenoid) the mower would start right up..


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## dangeroustoys56

Ive had the case where the solenoid would squeal a bit when the battery was low enough not to crank the motor over - annoying specially when id hoped to just jump on the tractor and mow, not have to deal with the battery charger.


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## wjjones

wjjones said:


> I dont know how, or have ever seen a solenoid go out this way but that is what it was.. it completely went out today, and when i bypassed it (solenoid) the mower would start right up..



Back to the drawing board the solenoid wasnt the problem after all it seems the battery (which isnt even a year old) wont hold charge?? I can jump it, and it will run and mow fine until you shut it off then you have to jump it again. I bought the battery 1 year ago this May 21st, and it has already crapped out.. Is there any such thing as a good battery anymore?? This is the one i bought...

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...den_2050013-P_N3582E_A|GRP2097____#fragment-1


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## dangeroustoys56

I bot my first replacement battery for my truck from there- a 700CCA ( recommended) - the battery barely lasted 3 years down here . I also bot a couple for my tractors as well- those didnt last either.

What date was the battery made on? Usually they have a sticker or something saying . Even tho the battery is a year old, it couldve sat on the shelf at the store for a year before.

I bot a couple interstate batterys before- those things are virtually unkillable - the replacement excide battery in my truck is a decent one as well . TSC carries decent ones - i have a 600CCA for my GTII from there ive had for nearly 2 years.

The maintence free ones tend to be less strong then the ones that you can add water to .


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> I bot my first replacement battery for my truck from there- a 700CCA ( recommended) - the battery barely lasted 3 years down here . I also bot a couple for my tractors as well- those didnt last either.
> 
> What date was the battery made on? Usually they have a sticker or something saying . Even tho the battery is a year old, it couldve sat on the shelf at the store for a year before.
> 
> I bot a couple interstate batterys before- those things are virtually unkillable - the replacement excide battery in my truck is a decent one as well . TSC carries decent ones - i have a 600CCA for my GTII from there ive had for nearly 2 years.
> 
> The maintence free ones tend to be less strong then the ones that you can add water to .



Not sure of the manufacture date is, we have a interstate battery outlet here but i think they are reconditioned. I have checked with TSC my only problem is it requires the flat top style battery the hold down wont fit over the caps on a regular battery. I think my main problem is the battery never recieved a proper pre-charge before use, and may have damaged the cells?


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## dangeroustoys56

Its possible- i threw the one i have for the GT on the charger for a bit before using it- some i never have. It still wouldnt hurt to check it for proper voltage when buying a new one.

BTW i mowed the other day and noticed that battery for the GT is actually a 2008- i bot that from TSC .

Any way to get a universal battery hold down? I made one from a piece of metal for my 90 murray.


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## dyt4000

If your engine is an Intek, you need to make sure the valve adjustment is spot on or the compression release won't work properly and will cause a hard start problem...


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## wjjones

gt6000 said:


> If your engine is an Intek, you need to make sure the valve adjustment is spot on or the compression release won't work properly and will cause a hard start problem...



Yep the valves are pretty good it is just a power kill issue. I know what you mean though my neighbors mower is in the shoppe right now for that very problem. His will barely turn over from the valves being so far out of adjustment, and he has burnt 2 starters up because of it. I think my problem was a dead battery from winter storage i charged it, and it is ok for now we will see how it holds up?


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## dangeroustoys56

Speaking of valves - many years ago i had a older dynamark GT ( which i shoulda never traded for a motor) with a 12HP teccy OHV motor - before attempting to start it, looking it over i decided to pop the valve cover off and..... the rocker arms were flopping in the breeze.....

Come to find out the rocker nut simply loosened and the rockers were free to roam. So i carefully pulled the push rods out, they looked straight- so i put the rockers back together , properly gapped em and the tractor fired right up.

After running it for about 5 mins, the rockers started to clatter a bit- they came loose again. So after talking to a tractor guru i bot parts from i found the rocker bolt size, bot a couple new nuts ( nylock nuts wouldnt fit under the valve cover) - ground em down, double nutted the rockers and never had an issue after that actually.

Im thinking about checking the rocker clearances on my OHV briggs motors...... funny thing is my opposed flatheads dont NEED to be checked....


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## wjjones

It ended up being the solenoid i replaced it, and it starts without a problem now. I could have sworn it was the battery but we will see if this cures the problem after i run it this week. It started okay after charging the battery before but still made that squeling noise. I replaced the solenoid, and the squeling noise is gone now, and it starts right up...but a guy down the road says it may not be charging the battery back while mowing. If the gutts of the solenoid where broke up could this interrupt the current from re-charging the battery after the mower is running?


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## dangeroustoys56

I have a few different wiring diagrams for murray tractors - they all basically show the charge lead wire from the stator runs to the ign switch- a fused lead from the starter solenoid runs into the stator wire ( positive side) .

The stator has a diode ( or a 'one way switch' ) in it to prevent the power from the battery back flowing into the stator - if a diode goes bad, the stator can literally suck the power right out of the battery.

Its possible the diode is bad - you can get 12 volt diodes from radio shack for like .50 - i bot a few but I cant remember where i put em ......


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> I have a few different wiring diagrams for murray tractors - they all basically show the charge lead wire from the stator runs to the ign switch- a fused lead from the starter solenoid runs into the stator wire ( positive side) .
> 
> The stator has a diode ( or a 'one way switch' ) in it to prevent the power from the battery back flowing into the stator - if a diode goes bad, the stator can literally suck the power right out of the battery.
> 
> Its possible the diode is bad - you can get 12 volt diodes from radio shack for like .50 - i bot a few but I cant remember where i put em ......



I will check into that i have an extra diode for 12v. I bought a couple off ebay a few years back for another mower repair, and got a few extras. Is there any sure way to test the diode?


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## dangeroustoys56

Im sure there is- i dont have a clue on how to do it tho.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Im sure there is- i dont have a clue on how to do it tho.



I will check into that one, and see what i can find out.. I am thinking in the OHMS scale on your voltmeter dont know how it works though??


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## wjjones

wjjones said:


> It ended up being the solenoid i replaced it, and it starts without a problem now. I could have sworn it was the battery but we will see if this cures the problem after i run it this week. It started okay after charging the battery before but still made that squeling noise. I replaced the solenoid, and the squeling noise is gone now, and it starts right up...but a guy down the road says it may not be charging the battery back while mowing. If the gutts of the solenoid where broke up could this interrupt the current from re-charging the battery after the mower is running?



The gremlins are back..... I tried to start the mower today, and nothing i charged the battery which wasnt really dead, and it still wouldnt start until i kept bumping the key??


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## dangeroustoys56

Sounds like when i went to fire up my GTII yesterday - cept mine was just a bad battery connection, i had to tweek the cable ends till it cranked over.

Id check the battery cables , clean the ends - maybe a bad connection?


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Sounds like when i went to fire up my GTII yesterday - cept mine was just a bad battery connection, i had to tweek the cable ends till it cranked over.
> 
> Id check the battery cables , clean the ends - maybe a bad connection?



New bolts, and washers cleaned the cable ends, checked all the ground connections, and starter connection, and still the same problem??


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## dangeroustoys56

Time to bring out the shotgun and put it to sleep- LOL! 

No really tho - its gotta be something simple - something over looked..... did you buy that new starter? The motor turns over by hand? 

Im trying to think of stuff possibly wrong or things ive had happen....... had a starter indexer literally lock in the up position and that dragged the motor /battery down, had a drive belt rust to the engine pulley , had one engine that would spin free with the plug out but snap flywheel keys with it in.

Ill have to think of other possible issues -


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Time to bring out the shotgun and put it to sleep- LOL!
> 
> No really tho - its gotta be something simple - something over looked..... did you buy that new starter? The motor turns over by hand?
> 
> Im trying to think of stuff possibly wrong or things ive had happen....... had a starter indexer literally lock in the up position and that dragged the motor /battery down, had a drive belt rust to the engine pulley , had one engine that would spin free with the plug out but snap flywheel keys with it in.
> 
> Ill have to think of other possible issues -



No i was holding off on the new starter so i dont buy something i dont really need. When it starts the starter is strong, and doesnt drag at all but when its acting up it doesnt want to turn at all. The engine turns free but with the normal compression resistance by that i mean you can turn it by hand threw the intake, and exhaust rotation. Its one of those crazy simple things as you said because it hasnt done it for the past 4 days??, and then it will do it again out of the blue?


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## dangeroustoys56

Think it could be a bad ignition switch? 

With the tractor off- pull the starter shroud and just see how easy the starter motor itself turns (while its off)- it should turn easily ( lil bit of resistance from the magnets inside).


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Think it could be a bad ignition switch?
> 
> With the tractor off- pull the starter shroud and just see how easy the starter motor itself turns (while its off)- it should turn easily ( lil bit of resistance from the magnets inside).



I will give that a try today... The ignition is going to be the next item i try to troubleshoot.. I have jumped it with the ignition in the run position, and it starts right up so that is usually a classic symptom of ignition switch trouble because the solenoid is the only other, and its new.. Wouldnt that mean the ignition is failing in the start position??


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## dangeroustoys56

Stranger things have happened - its a pretty cheep fix for a new ign switch if it works - or youll just end up having a spare one - with that other craftsman thread ( stalls when clutch is let out)- maybe a saftey switch is acting up?


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## wjjones

I just went and got a Briggs battery 420 ca with 350 cca 34amp hr rating from TSC, and hope this will fix my problem. I was thinking if the mower starts fine everytime i charge the battery then after it looses charge it wont start again. The ignition works, starter, and solenoid when i charge it. I popped the flywheel off cleaned all the junk out of the alternator, and tested the alternator, and it is charging to spec so it had to be the battery i hope.. The battery was $52.43- $10 core i paid 43.96 with tax, and you can feel the difference between it, and the battery i had from advance auto. I believe it weghs 3 times as much as the old battery which tells me it has some gutts in it.. I hope it cures this issue we will see..it does have a better warranty 9 month free replacement, and 18 month pro-rated...


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## dangeroustoys56

I stopped by TSC the other day to pick up a couple tire tubes for my 86 GTII - i noticed theyre carrying excide batteries now - those are a better quality battery - i have one in my truck- a 1000 CCA battery.....ill have to stop by and trade a couple of my crapped out batteries for them.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> I stopped by TSC the other day to pick up a couple tire tubes for my 86 GTII - i noticed theyre carrying excide batteries now - those are a better quality battery - i have one in my truck- a 1000 CCA battery.....ill have to stop by and trade a couple of my crapped out batteries for them.



Just by the weight you can tell they are better built, and a better warranty.. I would say the one i have now will last awhile i hope. We will have to keep up, and review at a later date.. but for the $$ it is a good battery.. I bought the other one at advance, and it acted up not even 1 month after i got it.. I had to jump it off the first time after i installed it which is not unheard of but it was never any good for the whole year i had it.. I would spend the extra $10 anyday to have a good battery with no hassle..


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## dangeroustoys56

I agree- the one for my truck was from advance - that thing barely lasted 3 years - i used it in my tractors for another year before it plain wouldnt charge anymore. Ill wait till after our road trip in june to get more tractor stuff.


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## wjjones

Where is the stator located on the newer Briggs engines mine is a 2006??


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## dangeroustoys56

Should be under the flywheel- those are a blast to pull off. Ive had to take quite a few off .


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Should be under the flywheel- those are a blast to pull off. Ive had to take quite a few off .



I will give it a look, and see if it is... I need to find out exactly how to test it??


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## dangeroustoys56

Should be able to tell with it on the tractor - Jhngardner367 mentioned stators put out about 12-15 volts with the tractor running and zero when its off . If you have a tester with a probe - you should be able to just put it in the connector and see.

Ive never herd of a stator going bad, just the diodes - altho one time i had a stator self destruct - the magnets inside the flywheel came loose and tore up the stator.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Should be able to tell with it on the tractor - Jhngardner367 mentioned stators put out about 12-15 volts with the tractor running and zero when its off . If you have a tester with a probe - you should be able to just put it in the connector and see.
> 
> Ive never herd of a stator going bad, just the diodes - altho one time i had a stator self destruct - the magnets inside the flywheel came loose and tore up the stator.



Yep i found it now the book calls it an alternator, and i found some instructions online to test it.. But if the diode is bad i will have to locate it somewhere because the book doent show a diode??


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## dangeroustoys56

Thats the easy bit - where the wires come out from under the flywheel - its right before the plug on the engine side - my murray wiring diagrams show its the red wire but it turns into a black wire after the plug . The diode in the diagram shows the arrow pointing tward the ign switch with a line in front of it like this: /< - the diode is marked the same way for the proper orientation.


You should be able to splice it in after the plug.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Thats the easy bit - where the wires come out from under the flywheel - its right before the plug on the engine side - my murray wiring diagrams show its the red wire but it turns into a black wire after the plug . The diode in the diagram shows the arrow pointing tward the ign switch with a line in front of it like this: /< - the diode is marked the same way for the proper orientation.
> 
> 
> You should be able to splice it in after the plug.



Well it did it again today i tested the battery i bought 05-22-2011, and it is fully charged. So thats a solenoid, and new battery, and with it still being charged tells me its not the stator so ???


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## jhngardner367

Check the ground wires,and use a larger diameter battery cable(s).They have a better amperage flow,than the cheap battery cables that most tractors are made with.Clean and tighten ALL the ground bolts,including the engine-mounting bolts.Also,to extend the battery's life,go to Harbor Freight,or TSC,and buy a "float charger"(also known as a battery tender),and use it,all winter,if you don't start the tractor during storage.It "tickles the battery's plates,preventing sulfation.Good luck!


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## cmonster

i have the same problem with starting on 2 of my machines and believe it to be a flat spot on the armeture of the starter due to corrosion ect.if youre handy you can pull the starter and clean the arm. and brushes but on my 18 hp briggs the starter is not a lot of fun to get off so ill probably just replace it with a new one


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## wjjones

I checked all the wiring connections when this started, and put new bolts in when i installed the new battery. I did forget though to check the engine-mounting bolts. I am kinda thinking it may be the starter, or ignition switch. I can get an ignition switch for $15.45 with shipping, and a starter for $40 with free shipping. I just need to figure out which one is acting up..


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## cmonster

imo for that small amount replace em both and be worry free for a while!


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## wjjones

cmonster said:


> imo for that small amount replace em both and be worry free for a while!



Yep, and keep which ever part that is found to be good for a spare...


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## dangeroustoys56

Spare parts are good - altho wife keeps saying "its all junk!" for some reason .....


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Spare parts are good - altho wife keeps saying "its all junk!" for some reason .....



Yep i have lost alot of good parts that way...


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## wjjones

Why does a starter not want to work when it has been heated up from the engines heat? I have noticed after it cools off it starts as if nothing is wrong but when its hot it acts up.


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## dangeroustoys56

Its starting to sound like the starter might be going - the motor being aluminum expands and contracts - which means when its hot, itll be actually harder to start , which means more of a drag on the starter .

I had an issue like that with my old '75 LTD- would start fine when cold, but when it was running for a while, it would barely crank over the motor when restarting - starter was so worn it just didnt have the oomph to kick that big motor over- replaced the starter and it started fine when it was hot.


If you feel adventurous, and the starter has vents in the bottom- you can take the starter apart and clean it. I use carb cleaner to clean the dust off, then some fine sandpaper to clean/polish the armature- unless the contacts are seriously worn, it can just be reassembled- the vents come in handy to put 4 pieces of wire ( i bend them in an "L" shape) to hold the contacts back while putting the endcap back on- would save buying a new starter. I also use a lil PB blaster on the bushings to make it turn easier.


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## wjjones

Ok i went back threw everything again, and this time i tested the stator with my new volt meter...the stator is putting out 16 amps at low idle. The book says 16 amps DC @36 rpm... the battery still is getting drained, and not re-charged? Both stator wires are black all the way to the end instead of red to black as mentioned before.. so there is no diode to be seen?


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## Country Boy

The diode may be built into the regulator. Its technically called a Rectifier/Regulator, so it converts the AC coming from the stator into DC for the battery by using a series of diodes. I don't think there would be a need for external diodes with that system. Briggs has a ton of different charging systems on their engines with different amp ratings. Some have rectifier/regulators, some don't.

As for your starter not working when hot, it could be a bad winding in the motor. You get that with ignition coils as well. They work great when they are cold, but after a few minutes of running, they suddenly stop working. You could try heating the starter with a hair dryer or heat gun with the engine cold and see if that duplicates your problem. If just heating the starter makes the problem reappear, I'd look into replacing it. They can be rebuilt if you have a good shop in your area, but its probably faster and easier to just get a new one.


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## wjjones

Is there anyway to test the regulator?


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## wjjones

Ok i think i fixed it? And it could be a duh moment for me because i didnt see it to start with...










The connector in the picture is the one that comes from the regulator (red wire) the orange wire runs the headlight power. I was looking it over one more time, and discovered the red wire had somehow work back out of the connector housing. The connector was still hooked up but the wire had came out of the plastic completely. I pressed it back into the connector, and plugged it back to the other side, and now the headlights work... I think this should also fix my other not charging problem as well.. Thankyou to all for your input... I hope this fixed both problems...


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## wjjones

Well the problem is back mowed today, and as soon as i shut it off it would not re-start. I recharged the battery, and it fired right up... I guess the wire that was loose was knocked loose when i was trying to find out what was wrong to start with..


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## jhngardner367

Try the following: First,charge the battery,then connect a voltmeter to it,and just watch the meter,(key off),to see if it loses voltage.If it does,recharge the battery,and reconnect the voltmeter,then take the connector off the ignition switch,and watch the meter.If the battery charge stays up,the switch is bad.If it still loses charge,the regulator/rectifier should then be disconnected(after recharging the battery),and again watch the meter.If it stays steady the regulator/rectifier is bad. NOTE : don't reconnect the ignition switch,until the last test is done,or it'll give a false reading!


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## Country Boy

Good idea jhngardner, though some charging systems backfeed through the key switch, so if the battery stops draining with the switch disconnected, then it could be the switch or the rectifier/regulator (R/R) in those cases. Not all systems do this, so you will need to follow the B+ wire coming off the R/R and see if it goes to the switch or back to the battery in a different manner. In theory, if you have the current from the R/R feed back through the switch, when you turn the switch off, it cuts the battery off from the charging circuit, helping to prevent a drain such as wjjones describes. I've seen the setup used on Ariens and other brands, but as I said, its a hit and miss whether they used it or not.


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## Mickey

Thread is getting long to keep track of all that has been said, well at least for me.  Do you know where the VR is located? If so, is it a 3 terminal devise? If so I believe the common configuration is outer 2 wires are the A.C. coming from the alt. Center terminal is D.C. out. These devises rectify the A.C. into D.C. and they control the voltage by shunting some power to ground. Alt is always putting out max power, some to operate various items, charge battery and what's left over is shunted to ground in effort to control voltage. Tis possible the component that does the shunting is leaking and some energy is still going to ground when engine is shut off.

Does that new meter have a current setting and can it handle a few amps? If so, pull one lead off the battery (may be best to pull the + cable off) when engine is not running, connect meter leads between the disconnected cable and the battery. In a perfect world the reading should be ZERO. If power is being drawn from the battery when engine if off, that is the cause of the drain. Quick way to test the VR is to pull the wire connections. If that causes the drain to go to zero, you've isolated the problem. If it isn't the VR causing the drain, you'll have to start looking at other components or wiring.

While you're at it, with engine running what is the voltage at the battery or output from the VR. Should be in the 14.25 volt range.


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## wjjones

Thankyou to all your ideas i will try each one until i figure it out because i have tried everything i know without any improvement.. I did go ahead and order a new regulator but would like to test these ideas before i install it just to be sure it does not get fried too... at that point it will be a new solenoid, battery, and regulator.. I relocated the ground because the spot where it was is full of debris, and rust... I also changed the mounting location of the regulator to a better flat metal surface away from the engine heat.. Thankyou guys for your help..wjjones.. Almost forgot the VR is the 3 terminal style 2 yellow, and one red wire... Red goes to the battery yellow from alternator to VR..


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## dangeroustoys56

Ooop- didnt know the tractor had a voltage regulator - probably why theres no diode - all my stuff is too old and basic to have a VR.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Ooop- didnt know the tractor had a voltage regulator - probably why theres no diode - all my stuff is too old and basic to have a VR.



Yep i am going to test all the info you guys have given me before i put the new VR on just to be sure theres not some problem that may have burned this one out.. It has almost got to be the VR because i can charge the battery, and mow the whole yard shut it down, and it wont re-start.. The alternator is charging to factory spec so the VR is hopefully going to fix my problem, or some gas, and matches will...


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## dangeroustoys56

Now i think about it, some of my tractors dont have the charging wire hooked up ( couple with crappy diodes)- can mow all day long and battery will still turn the mower over.

If the VR still doesnt do it- try a new ign switch before using it to cook marshmallows ......


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Now i think about it, some of my tractors dont have the charging wire hooked up ( couple with crappy diodes)- can mow all day long and battery will still turn the mower over.
> 
> If the VR still doesnt do it- try a new ign switch before using it to cook marshmallows ......



Yep ignition would be another thing to test.. my problem with the juice is the pto it really sucks the battery dry when its not charging..


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## dangeroustoys56

Be honest i wouldnt of had your paitience - id of just went n bot all new stuff for it - i get that reasoning from my dad.

Once on my moms old car - the car just died- no spark. So pop went n bot a new brain box, distributor cap, wires, rotor - STILL no spark - im looking it over with him and noticed the magnetic pickup wire on the distributor was just hanging there- he replaced that and....car fired right up - something simple as a single wire caused the whole problem- he left all those other parts on the car and kept the old ones for spares. 

Yeah it cost him some money, but it saved a whole lot of headaches and frustration .


One time my '84 dynamark wouldnt start ( turn over) - i went thru the whole tractor , replaced the ign switch, solenoid, checked the wires, charged the battery - almost changed the battery cables and thought " did i check the inline fuse?" - fuse was blown..... i kept the old parts for spares.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Be honest i wouldnt of had your paitience - id of just went n bot all new stuff for it - i get that reasoning from my dad.
> 
> Once on my moms old car - the car just died- no spark. So pop went n bot a new brain box, distributor cap, wires, rotor - STILL no spark - im looking it over with him and noticed the magnetic pickup wire on the distributor was just hanging there- he replaced that and....car fired right up - something simple as a single wire caused the whole problem- he left all those other parts on the car and kept the old ones for spares.
> 
> Yeah it cost him some money, but it saved a whole lot of headaches and frustration .
> 
> 
> One time my '84 dynamark wouldnt start ( turn over) - i went thru the whole tractor , replaced the ign switch, solenoid, checked the wires, charged the battery - almost changed the battery cables and thought " did i check the inline fuse?" - fuse was blown..... i kept the old parts for spares.


 Yep buying all the parts you need that might fix it will help you out later when you have the spares that where still good.. I try to keep spare belts, air filters, plugs, etc on hand since the local stores closed, and i have to order everything, and wait 4 to 7 days for parts. When you are in a pinch, and need the mower running spare parts will get you going again, and save down time.. This mowing, and re-charging crap is getting old quick..


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## wjjones

I dont know if my meter has the correct setting or not but i am not getting voltage from the old VR, or the new one? Is there any particular volt rate it should be set at?


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## jhngardner367

It could be the stator crapped out.Put your multi meter on ohms,and connect the black lead to a ground.Then(KEY OFF!),touch the red lead to each of the vr wires(VR DISCONNECTED!).If it's shorted,the meter will show O ohms,or CLOSE to 0.Then,touch the black lead to the vr red wire,and the red lead to each of the other wires.A reading of more than5 ohms,shows good,&no reading shows a short.


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## wjjones

Ok i am charging the battery right now when its done i will try this test as well. I did hook up, and do the ignition test from one of the other post, and the needle was not steady until i unplugged the ignition...but the battery was only half charged when i checked it..


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## wjjones

jhngardner367 said:


> It could be the stator crapped out.Put your multi meter on ohms,and connect the black lead to a ground.Then(KEY OFF!),touch the red lead to each of the vr wires(VR DISCONNECTED!).If it's shorted,the meter will show O ohms,or CLOSE to 0.Then,touch the black lead to the vr red wire,and the red lead to each of the other wires.A reading of more than5 ohms,shows good,&no reading shows a short.



Ok old VR 0 ohms new VR read over 5 ohms dont remember exactly how much but it was over 5 so i am guessing that means the diode was bad in the old one? It is the type of VR with the internal diode so the new VR should fix the no charge problem i am having..??


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## wjjones

I dont want to jinx myself but i think the new VR fixed my problem...Thankyou to all for the helpful info, and the testing info as well...


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