# Loader hydraulic problem



## 57Case (Jul 18, 2020)

The tilt on my bucket doesn’t have any downward pressure, and it’s a lot slower than it used to be. So after I dump it, I can’t scrape the pile back using the back side, it just flops up and rides over the dirt. I don’t know if it’s related to the pressure gauge reading zero. I put a new gauge on it, because I figured if the loader was doing any work at all it’s got to have SOME pressure in the lines, but the new one is reading zero top. The gauge is in top of the valves and the fluid level is good. I’ve got new fluid in it and there’s no leaks. Much appreciation for any suggestions.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Welcome to the forum 57Case. 
Is it the bucket or the boom that is sloppy? If the bucket flops around, I can't see how you'd be able to pick up a bucket of dirt? 
If you are back blading, feather the control forward, it sounds as if you are pushing the boom function into "FLOAT" mode.


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## harry16 (Dec 8, 2011)

Sounds like your hydraulic pump is not putting out. Pressure should be 2000+ psi.


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## 57Case (Jul 18, 2020)

pogobill said:


> Welcome to the forum 57Case.
> Is it the bucket or the boom that is sloppy? If the bucket flops around, I can't see how you'd be able to pick up a bucket of dirt?
> If you are back blading, feather the control forward, it sounds as if you are pushing the boom function into "FLOAT" mode.


Thanks Pogobill, 
It’s only the bucket that’s loose, it can pick up only half a bucket of dirt, you’re right about it not picking up well, the problem is that as it’s digging into the dirt, the weight of the dirt it’s taking in isn’t enough to keep it down as far as it needs to go in order to completely load the bucket, so it fills only half way. The boom holds fine wherever I put it. It’s as if the cylinders on the bucket are only holding pressure in one direction. Or maybe the control valve isn’t holding? As far as the pressure gauge being at zero, I’m thing there’s just some blockage at that fitting because there’s no way if the whole system has no pressure that it can do any work


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

My take from your description thus far is that one of the bucket cylinders is leaking past the piston seal. Your pressure gauge reading zero doesn't prove much since you haven't explained where it's tapped in. The pressure will vary from place to place depending on what you're doing.


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## 57Case (Jul 18, 2020)

Fedup said:


> My take from your description thus far is that one of the bucket cylinders is leaking past the piston seal. Your pressure gauge reading zero doesn't prove much since you haven't explained where it's tapped in. The pressure will vary from place to place depending on what you're doing.


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## 57Case (Jul 18, 2020)

Thanks, pressure gauge is tapped into th


harry16 said:


> Sounds like your hydraulic pump is not putting out. Pressure should be 2000+ psi.


Thanks Harry16, the gauge is between the pump and the controls, on top of the controls where the hose from the pump comes in. I’ll take it off and see if some dirt got into those fittings. I put the pump on about ten years ago when it was new and only have about twenty hours on it, but maybe a seal went bad, the tractor sat out in the sun with cracked heads for 7 years, but it runs good now.


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## 57Case (Jul 18, 2020)

Thanks, how would you test it, take it off and put some hand pressure on the piston both directions ?


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## 57Case (Jul 18, 2020)

Maybe just pull the pin off the piston and leave it in


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## harry16 (Dec 8, 2011)

Your gauge will read near zero pressure when your loader control in in the neutral position (open center control). See what it reads when you pick up a load of dirt.


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## 57Case (Jul 18, 2020)

harry16 said:


> Your gauge will read near zero pressure when your loader control in in the neutral position (open center control). See what it reads when you pick up a load of dirt.


It can only pick up half a bucket but when the boom picks that up it reads about 500 lbs. But when it’s down on the ground with that same load ( maybe 1/6 yard) , and I extend the pistons on the bucket all the way and keep pushing it, it goes to 2800, and starts to stall the engine. So I don’t know I’d that eliminates the pump as a problem or not. The bucket only flops up , not down. The controls move it both ways, it just can’t hold down. It’s own weight and the load are all that holds it down, while the boom stays put no matter what.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

The 2800 psi is a good sign. So fully extending the bucket cylinders and holding the valve builds to relief pressure. Can you do the same retracting the cylinders and holding the valve?


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## Hoppy (Nov 3, 2019)

It sounds to me like there's a blockage in your hydraulics on the bucket. My Ford 515 had a similar issue, but not as drastic. Once I got rid of the blockage, it went back to normal. My blockage blew out the bottom of the controller, which is the hard way to get rid of a blockage...


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

On an open center system there is minimal pressure unless a resistance is encountered. Remember the pump does NOT create pressure it just moves oil. When a load is put on the pump because of the resistance and the pressure only rises enough to overcome the "load". The valve only controls the direction of the oil flow although most also have a relief valve in them. The cylinders do the "work". The piston is sealed inside the barrel, when oil is forced into one end the piston moves to the opposite end. If the loader frame has no issue moving up and down that would say the pump and valve are good. I suspect one of the dump cylinders has had the piston come loose and partially seals to lift the load but does not seal in the opposite direction. Suggest you inspect the bucket cylinders believe you will find the problem.


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## Scottp1951 (Jun 13, 2020)

Sounds like it could use some Viagra! I think I would first look at the bucket control spool valve.
It is the valve your bucket contromove back & forth. There are O rings on the control valve that wear out as they get flat 
& square How something wears out O rings with being lubed in hydro fluid is above my pay grade. Replacing those O rings doesn't fix the problem it is a good maintenance procedure.
Did somebody unhook the tilt cylinders and pull the ram out then hooked it back up? Don't get air in the system.


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

O rings in a hydraulic valve only seal the oil from leaking out of the valve. The internal passages are sealed by the fit of the valve spool to the valve body. So unless a piece of junk got in the valve and was forced hard enough to break the lands in the valve it should not be an issue. But a thought just occurred to me some valves have what is called a load check valve. It is supposed to keep the load from dropping when the valve spool is first moved. It works as a one way check valve so the pressure has to overcome the load before it will start raising. other wise the load would drop slightly before the pressure would start lifting the load. If the bucket hoses were reversed and the problem stayed the same it is not the valve. If it is opposite then the load check may be at fault.


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## Scottp1951 (Jun 13, 2020)

Interesting, Busted Tractor. 57 Case said it had set outside in the sun for 7 years. He or we need a parts book. Reversed hoses just rang a bell as that has happened with me. I am thinking of a simple repair.


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## 57Case (Jul 18, 2020)

Scottp1951 said:


> Interesting, Busted Tractor. 57 Case said it had set outside in the sun for 7 years. He or we need a parts book. Reversed hoses just rang a bell as that has happened with me. I am thinking of a simple repair.


My apologies for my absence, I got busy with other things. I really appreciate all these really great suggestions. I’m pretty sure I haven’t switched the hoses but will keep that in mind and see if both the tilt (dump) cylinders are hooked up the same as each other. I did replace some hoses but numbered the fittings as I disconnected them, but might not have got it right. I should also get some basic knowledge of how hydraulics work


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## 57Case (Jul 18, 2020)

Busted Tractor said:


> O rings in a hydraulic valve only seal the oil from leaking out of the valve. The internal passages are sealed by the fit of the valve spool to the valve body. So unless a piece of junk got in the valve and was forced hard enough to break the lands in the valve it should not be an issue. But a thought just occurred to me some valves have what is called a load check valve. It is supposed to keep the load from dropping when the valve spool is first moved. It works as a one way check valve so the pressure has to overcome the load before it will start raising. other wise the load would drop slightly before the pressure would start lifting the load. If the bucket hoses were reversed and the problem stayed the same it is not the valve. If it is opposite then the load check may be at fault.





Busted Tractor said:


> O rings in a hydraulic valve only seal the oil from leaking out of the valve. The internal passages are sealed by the fit of the valve spool to the valve body. So unless a piece of junk got in the valve and was forced hard enough to break the lands in the valve it should not be an issue. But a thought just occurred to me some valves have what is called a load check valve. It is supposed to keep the load from dropping when the valve spool is first moved. It works as a one way check valve so the pressure has to overcome the load before it will start raising. other wise the load would drop slightly before the pressure would start lifting the load. If the bucket hoses were reversed and the problem stayed the same it is not the valve. If it is opposite then the load check may be at fault.





Busted Tractor said:


> O rings in a hydraulic valve only seal the oil from leaking out of the valve. The internal passages are sealed by the fit of the valve spool to the valve body. So unless a piece of junk got in the valve and was forced hard enough to break the lands in the valve it should not be an issue. But a thought just occurred to me some valves have what is called a load check valve. It is supposed to keep the load from dropping when the valve spool is first moved. It works as a one way check valve so the pressure has to overcome the load before it will start raising. other wise the load would drop slightly before the pressure would start lifting the load. If the bucket hoses were reversed and the problem stayed the same it is not the valve. If it is opposite then the load check may be at fault.


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## 57Case (Jul 18, 2020)

Thanks Busted, 
My apologies for being so absent. I got busy and then couldn’t figure out how to reply from this phone format and meant to get back to it from my computer in town. I very much appreciate these very good suggestions as my knowledge of hydraulics is in need of improvement. It does sound to me like a stuck check valve also, so I’ll take apart that control this winter. The oil was pretty bad, it had a lot if water in it, so it could have rusted a check valve. I don’t know where the water came from, maybe I left the filler plug loose, or maybe condensation from being out in the sun. It’s still got a little water, as there’s no drain plug on the vertical tank in the loader post, just the feed to the pump to drain it. I guess I should have sucked the bottom out from the port to the pump, maybe I’ll get that done this winter too. Thanks to all for all the great info!


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