# Case 580B ck Help w/ Engine



## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

*188 Diesel *My front two cylinders are not firing. I pulled the exhaust manifold and i got raw fuel running out instead of hot gases. The rear two are puffin' pretty good. I shot a laser thermometer into the exhaust ports and the rear are over 100deg but the front two are still staying in the 60deg range and raw fuel is dripping from the ports. I cleaned the bottom half of those two injectors and blew them out so they are not plugged up. What should I check out next??


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

......Valves? Thinking that the compression is low? Glow plugs are working I gather?


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

Does the 188 Diesel have glow plugs? Where are they located? I'm completely new to this whole tractor/diesel world, I know just enough to get myself into trouble but not enough to get out!!

I looked through the manual and didn't find anything on glow plugs, just the engine heater controled by the 1st position on the key. It mentions a 1200 watt engine pre-heater but no glow plugs.


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## rsmith335 (Jun 2, 2010)

I'm with TB. Hope it's just valves. Do you have fuel in the oil? And if you are real lucky it might be screwed up injectors, not atomizing the fuel for combustion, leaving raw fuel. Check it out quick, a injector spraying a stream of fuel on the clyender wall will cut a grove the in wall- big bucks for over haul. Good Luck:


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## caseman-d (Nov 29, 2003)

Pull the injector and then hook it back up so it shoots out side and see if the injectors are spraying and popping correctly. Or you may take them to a diesel injector repair place and let them do a pressure test.
caseman-d


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

Thanks for the advice guys I'll check out those injectors right away.


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

OK guys, i pulled the tappet cover to find that 2 push rods were bent and not even under the rockers. Both were on the intake side so the cylinders were not getting any air at all. I believe the problem may have been neglect because all of the rockers are waaaay out of adjustment. I would estimate about 5/32+ valve lash, don't know what specs should be but that seems extreme to me.

Do I have to pull the water pump assembly to get the head off or just pull the long bolts that go into the head at the front just below the goose neck?

Thanks for any help or tips for what i am about to do...I really appreciate the help guys.


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## rsmith335 (Jun 2, 2010)

Wow! I would be looking at every thing, kinda scary when you find that kind of neglect. Best of Luck


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## bstrang4 (Apr 12, 2011)

Bent pushrods would indicate that the valves have contacted the pistons. The head should come off to check for bent valves and/or valve guide damage. Extreme carbon buildup can cause this as can someone using starting fluid incorrectly.


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

I am definatley pulling the head, i am hoping that the push rods are the end of the broken parts.....I'll keep you guys up to date on it..got out of work early so i will be working on it tonight yet.


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

OK I pulled the head off the 188 Diesel. The valves are all in good shape as well as the pistons and the sleeves. I believe the head gasket failed because I have oil in the water system and nasty sledge everywhere. I plan to replace the bent push rods and put new gaskets in her and start bolting her back together. I will obviously change all the fluids and filters and lube anything that moves and then lube anything that is next to something that moves

Anyone with greater wisdom please stop me before my lack of patients makes it worse


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

Had time to clean up the head and much to my suprise it looks like a large cast iron boat anchor.

At each of the ports for the injectors there are multiple cracks that look as if someone used a very large hammer and tried to drive the injectors right down through the head. One is cracked right into the valve seat. I don't expect to find another head for this antique so i will probably fire up the TIG and start replacing bad with better. Any tips tricks or miricle info would be greatly appreciated at this point. My first thoughts were to haul the whole thing down to the PADNOS yard and cash it out for scrap. I guess I got nothing to loose at this point so I'll try to repair the head myself, I was told by the sellor that the motor was overhauled not too long ago.....B S no doubt. The wife is much less than humored at this point. Really, I'll be hoping for some wisdom from those in the know about head repair. I just have too many irons in the fire right now to spend any money on it so it will have to happen in house.


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## bstrang4 (Apr 12, 2011)

I would save up for a used head from a tractor salvage yard. Welding is a bad idea as it will cause further cracking in the cast iron. The only way it might work is if the head was oven heated before welding and the head was gradually cooled back down in the oven over several hours.


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## BelarusBulldog (Feb 19, 2011)

Distantsmoke said:


> Had time to clean up the head and much to my suprise it looks like a large cast iron boat anchor.
> 
> At each of the ports for the injectors there are multiple cracks that look as if someone used a very large hammer and tried to drive the injectors right down through the head. One is cracked right into the valve seat. I don't expect to find another head for this antique so i will probably fire up the TIG and start replacing bad with better. Any tips tricks or miricle info would be greatly appreciated at this point. My first thoughts were to haul the whole thing down to the PADNOS yard and cash it out for scrap. I guess I got nothing to loose at this point so I'll try to repair the head myself, I was told by the sellor that the motor was overhauled not too long ago.....B S no doubt. The wife is much less than humored at this point. Really, I'll be hoping for some wisdom from those in the know about head repair. I just have too many irons in the fire right now to spend any money on it so it will have to happen in house.


DON'T weld it yet! Take it to a machine shop that does cylinder heads and ask them for their opinion. If they say nothing can be done with it, go ahead and try to weld it yourself. Then you will have NOTHING to lose! Bye


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## rsmith335 (Jun 2, 2010)

bstrang4 said:


> I would save up for a used head from a tractor salvage yard. Welding is a bad idea as it will cause further cracking in the cast iron. The only way it might workow it's going is if the head was oven heated before welding and the head was gradually cooled back down in the oven over several hours.


You need to find a old timer that knows about the oven process, it can be done. It takes alot of time. Let us know how it's going.


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

Thanks for the input guys..I'll check out the pre-heat process and follow that rabbit hole for a while..not alot of 188 heads layin around in better condition then the one i have. I helped with a cracked case weld many years ago...held a torch along with 2 other guys while a third welded the crack. i was quite young but remember that i was told if i let that heavy torch down i'd get smacked in the head...one of the other guys kept reaching over to my torch and moving me further and further away after the welding was done until we were able to let it cool down on it's own. I guess they couldn't fit the whole case into the oven!!


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## rsmith335 (Jun 2, 2010)

Sounds like you know what your up against. A lotof real heavy machenery is repaired that way. I would go for it! Good luck, let us know how it works out. Thanks Rick


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

Here are my thoughts...
I plan to weld up a steel box for a furnace. I have an electric heat/blower from a commercial bath fan/heat unit. I plan to use charcoal with the fan unit blowing into it to increase the temp and when the charcoal burns out the heater will provide heat for the cool down process. I am thinking that if i bring the whole head up to 500-600 deg before welding it won't crack any more. I have to do some checking into what rod to use with my TIG to stitch her back together.


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Bulldog, i will check with a machine shop before I start on it as you have suggested.:thumbsup:


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## BelarusBulldog (Feb 19, 2011)

Be sure to let us know how things turn out. I love following along on projects like this. Bye


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## cj06 (Jan 13, 2011)

as for welding it grind the crack and then weld a little and peen it with a ball peen hammer then weld and peen ! take a torch to heat up the crack to get all the oil out ! depending on the cracks you could drill the ends to keep it from expanding with a small bit ! :usa:


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

I was planning to drill the cracks just as I do on tub and shower repairs, your comments reassured me that it was the right move.

The peening, is that to further harden the weld?


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## cj06 (Jan 13, 2011)

when you peen the weld it helps to relive the stress of the weld during its cooling ! hope this helps as i was told this some 35 years ago !


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

Thanks for the tip cj06
The peening shall commence


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## fordgmc (May 5, 2011)

I know for a fact the machine shop can repair cracks with pins they install in to the head . I am going to give you a phone number to Rutts Machine in PA they can fix you up or get you a replacment head . Rutts Machine Shop Products 717-367-3011 or 888-367-3011 (Phone)


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

Thanks for the info fordgmc


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

*1967 Case 580 CK Model 33 Loader*

Spent a while out at* Southeast Case *dealer in Holt Michigan. WOW what a bunch of very helpful guys.:usa:
I found out that my Construction King is a 1967 and that the engine is indeed the origional one (I suspected that it was changed). I got a service manual for my Model 33 loader for $25 along with a complete head gasket kit which they amazingly had sitting on the shelf.
The service tech/mechanic gave me tech info out of the service manual for reinstalling the head as well as repairing bad hydro cylinders. He even went into great detail about how to repair my cracked cylinder head. They could have told me some 'cock and bull story' and discouraged me from doing my own service work but they were honest and have securely gauranteed that I will come to them for every part that needs to be replaced and even the ones that just look ugly.
I don't know, maybe I'll like this *Case* so much that I'll need another one and go back for a little bigger purchase from them.

Does anyone know where I can get one of these in *Case*??:tractorsm


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## dwloop (Jul 19, 2011)

Hello, new to the forum and I have a 580B CK diesel... I was just wondering how the head repair or replacement turned out??

Dave


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey DWLOOP
Sorry about the late reply I have been soooo busy at work I have had no time to work on my tractor or play on the computer. My head is still sitting on the bench but the welding went well. I pre-heated it with map gas torches in each of the intake and exhaust ports and then let them burn out after TIG welding the bad areas. I still plan to take it to a machine shop to have it resurfaced before I put it back together.


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## shantax2 (Apr 2, 2012)

Hi Distant,

I hope that you have some luck repairing your cylinder head, I have had experience with cracked engine castings and have tried the pre heat and weld method but unfortunatly had no luck. The guy who did the welding was a fully trained welder but he did say that he would not gurantee that it would work and it didnt but such is life I suppose.
If you dont have any luck here is a site where you can get a new cylinder head for you engine. www.colemanequip.com


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## Distantsmoke (Mar 28, 2011)

My repair went well, i TIG welded the cracks after pre-heating and then post heated until my map gas torch ran out. I ported the head and smoothed out all the rough spots including clearing away cast material that prevented the oil from running back down into the lifter galley. I lapped the valves and am about ready to reassemble, i'll post results ; )
1967 Case 580 CK 288 Diesel


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