# Valve box rebuild kit?



## Kenyon77 (Jul 8, 2017)

Hi Guys, is there any chance y'all can help me identify this contraption and possibly find a rebuild kit for it. My scoop lost all power yesterday, and I think it is the control valve. I noticed it is leaking a bit, so I figured I should just rebuild or replace it. It's on a Ford 4500 FEL (best we can tell it's between a 1975 and 1980 model) Y'all helped a lot when I was trying to figure out what it is so I could get the correct parts to rebuild the engine and IP. Everything turned out great! I just got all of the hydraulic cylinders rebuilt, and they are working well. I learned a few days ago that the hydraulic cylinders like to leave some slimy gifts for the hydraulic filter and screen. That was a fun lesson. I figure if I just rebuild/replace each component as needed, eventually I will have a pretty solid tractor. Any help is appreciated!


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

"Scoop lost all power"? Hard to imagine what that means. The "scoop" is a backhoe bucket? "Lost all power". The boom won't lift anything heavy, or maybe won't move at all? If you're suggesting rebuilding the multi section backhoe valve in the first photo, I'm not sure that will do much for you other than reduce some leaks.


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## Kenyon77 (Jul 8, 2017)

Fedup said:


> "Scoop lost all power"? Hard to imagine what that means. The "scoop" is a backhoe bucket? "Lost all power". The boom won't lift anything heavy, or maybe won't move at all? If you're suggesting rebuilding the multi section backhoe valve in the first photo, I'm not sure that will do much for you other than reduce some leaks.


Yeah, sorry. I guess I should have been more descriptive. The bucket on the back hoe started to retract by itself. When I opened (extended) it all the way it would begin to slowly drop as soon as I let go of the lever. It did that for about an hour, then it wouldn't even retract. The boom and all other hydraulics are still working fine. Only the back home bucket is not working. I really don't know what gave me the idea that it was the "multi section backhoe valve." That just seemed like the only point of failure that would target JUST the bucket. Forgive my ignorance. I don't know the terminology for all the different parts and such.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

I cant help you much other than IDing it.
The tractor is a 1965 - 1968 Ford 4500 and the number on the tag 19-454 translates to a Ford 752 hoe.
Parts are generally available for the hoe from New Holland.

https://partstore.agriculture.newho...plyCo/parts-search.html#epc::mr92176ag4892088
I would look on ebay or amazon for a repair manual but use the more common Ford 752 hoe #.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Perhaps you have some suspect piston seals in the cylinder that operates that function?


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Ultradog said:


> I cant help you much other than IDing it.
> The tractor is a 1965 - 1968 Ford 4500 and the number on the tag 19-454 translates to a Ford 752 hoe.
> Parts are generally available for the hoe from New Holland.
> 
> ...


He has been told that it was assembled in Basildon in 1967, but he did not like that:
https://www.tractorforum.com/thread...ng-to-rebuild-for-use-on-my-farm.34496/page-3


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## Kenyon77 (Jul 8, 2017)

Fedup said:


> Perhaps you have some suspect piston seals in the cylinder that operates that function?


All of the cylinders are freshly rebuilt as of 2 weeks ago. There are no signs of leakage on any of them, although I suppose it could be leaking internally?


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## Kenyon77 (Jul 8, 2017)

Hacke said:


> He has been told that it was assembled in Basildon in 1967, but he did not like that:
> https://www.tractorforum.com/thread...ng-to-rebuild-for-use-on-my-farm.34496/page-3


It has nothing to do with me, "Not liking that" and everything to do with a bunch of conflicting information. I don't know what kind of hodge podge of parts were put on this thing before I got it, but it seems some parts are from the 70s and others are from the 60s.


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## Kenyon77 (Jul 8, 2017)

Look, there is no question that I don't know shit about tractors. If I already knew everything, I would be here answering questions, not asking them. I appreciate you all helping with what you can, but if my lack of knowledge is a problem, I have no issue with asking someone else and leaving y'all to keep your knowledge to yourselves.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

Don't worry man, our intent is to help after all.
Besides, when you shut your computer off we all disappear


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## Kenyon77 (Jul 8, 2017)

Ultradog said:


> Don't worry man, our intent is to help after all.
> Besides, when you shut your computer off we all disappear


Yeah, I get it. A lot of folks here have helped me a lot more than they had to. Believe me, I truly appreciate it. I guess I just get frustrated because I spent my life savings on 83 acres that I intend to turn into a farm, without knowing everything I should. Add to that the fact that my memory is shit from being too close to too many explosions, and you can see why I get a little grumpy. I thought that being retired meant I would have time to learn on the fly, but there is more to it than I expected, and I forget 50 percent of the things I learn. I would have sworn that Hacke had said "1977" not "1967!" I guess I need to get better at keeping notes and reviewing them. 

Sorry if I came off as an asshole. I hate feeling like I am being a nuisance and pestering people.


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## 47ford (Oct 1, 2019)

Kenyon77 said:


> Yeah, sorry. I guess I should have been more descriptive. The bucket on the back hoe started to retract by itself. When I opened (extended) it all the way it would begin to slowly drop as soon as I let go of the lever. It did that for about an hour, then it wouldn't even retract. The boom and all other hydraulics are still working fine. Only the back home bucket is not working. I really don't know what gave me the idea that it was the "multi section backhoe valve." That just seemed like the only point of failure that would target JUST the bucket. Forgive my ignorance. I don't know the terminology for all the different parts and such.





Kenyon77 said:


> All of the cylinders are freshly rebuilt as of 2 weeks ago. There are no signs of leakage on any of them, although I suppose it could be leaking internally?[/
> 
> 
> Kenyon77 said:
> ...


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## Kenyon77 (Jul 8, 2017)

Wouldn't fluid leak out through the seal if that were the case? I checked the cylinder pretty closely and there are no signs of leakage. For clarification, the gland nut is the one that holds the piston into the cylinder, right?


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

I think the nut being discussed is the one securing the piston to the rod. It's internal and not visible without disassembly. It's not really a gland nut.


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## 47ford (Oct 1, 2019)

Kenyon77 said:


> Wouldn't fluid leak out through the seal if that were the case? I checked the cylinder pretty closely and there are no signs of leakage. For clarification, the gland nut is the one that holds the piston into the cylinder, right?


You probably won’t see external leakage, as the cylinder rod is still packed off with seals
The rod can still move, the gland nut keeps the piston attached to the cylinder rod, if it comes loose or completely unscrewed the piston will eventually separate from the rod, does the cylinder rod have any movement


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

Kenyon77 said:


> Yeah, I get it. A lot of folks here have helped me a lot more than they had to. Believe me, I truly appreciate it. I guess I just get frustrated because I spent my life savings on 83 acres that I intend to turn into a farm, without knowing everything I should. Add to that the fact that my memory is shit from being too close to too many explosions, and you can see why I get a little grumpy. I thought that being retired meant I would have time to learn on the fly, but there is more to it than I expected, and I forget 50 percent of the things I learn. I would have sworn that Hacke had said "1977" not "1967!" I guess I need to get better at keeping notes and reviewing them.
> 
> Sorry if I came off as an asshole. I hate feeling like I am being a nuisance and pestering people.


Think nothing of it, now we understand your situation.

I thought it would be helpful to gather the useful information we have, in one place.
It is easier to get a grip without scrolling through pages and sorting information when a question occurs.

I am not certain of the Serial Number for the loader. There is a lot of paint on the tag, perhaps you could use some paint stripper and check it? Perhaps you will need the number if you need parts.

It sure would be nice if you could find the Model Number. Have you checked the entire area above the numbers you found on the lug behind the starter?

I found this interesting information regarding casting/part numbers:
http://automotivemileposts.com/ford/fordpartnumbers.html

If someone finds something that has to be changed or added to the list, please shout.

***************************************
*Tractor*
Model Number: Missing
Serial Number: B835051 (Basildon, UK, Domestic series)
Production Code: 7C3
Together that points to a unit assembled March 3, 1967.
From the looks of it, it appears to be a Ford 4500 (Industrial version of Ford 4000, 3-cyl)

Casting number on engine block: E2NN 6015 BC
That means that the block was designed (and/or made) in 1982, and that the engine was replaced.

Injection pump: CAV DPA 3233F390

(Probably) Transmission Production Code: 7B14B
That, together with Tractor Serial Number makes February 14, 1967.
Transmission type: Unknown

PTO: Unknown

*Loader*
Model Number: 19-450
Serial Number: 3718
This means a Ford 740-series (19-450) loader.
It was made during the period 1/66 - 12/68.

*Backhoe*
Model Number: 19-454
Serial Number: ???1336???
This means a Ford 752-series (19-454) backhoe.
It was made during the period 1/66 - 12/69.
***************************************


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## Kenyon77 (Jul 8, 2017)

Hacke said:


> Think nothing of it, now we understand your situation.
> 
> I thought it would be helpful to gather the useful information we have, in one place.
> It is easier to get a grip without scrolling through pages and sorting information when a question occurs.
> ...


Wow! Thank you for that! I will see if I can scrape more paint off the tag tomorrow. As far as the numbers behind the starter lug, I am absolutely certain there are no more numbers to be found. I believe I posted pics before, but I can post new ones if needed. The lug is relatively clean, so I think any numbers present would be noticeable.

In an effort to narrow down the problem with my bucket, would it be feasible to swap out the hoses at the valve and see if the issue persists, or moves to another part of the back hose? That shouldn't damage anything, right?


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## Kenyon77 (Jul 8, 2017)

Ok, I will take a look tomorrow and see if there is any movement within the cylinder. Would it be side to side slop, or in and out movement? Is this nut we are talking about the one that holds the seal to the end of the rod? (Maybe what I am calling a "seal" is actually the piston?)


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

On second thought, you do not need to search for the Model Number on the lug. If you look at the attached picture you will see that the numbers you have found are probably all there is. The early units did not have the Model Number on the lug. On the UK made ones, that is. The decal under the hood came later. They did not put the Model Number on the tractor at all, as I understand it. Strange.


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## Kenyon77 (Jul 8, 2017)

Hacke said:


> On second thought, you do not need to search for the Model Number on the lug. If you look at the attached picture you will see that the numbers you have found are probably all there is. The early units did not have the Model Number on the lug. On the UK made ones, that is. The decal under the hood came later. They did not put the Model Number on the tractor at all, as I understand it. Strange.


Leave it to the good people at Ford to make things more complicated than they have to be! Thank you for the info.


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## Kenyon77 (Jul 8, 2017)

Is it a bad idea to switch the hoses around at the valve box? For example: if I swap the hoses that operate the bucket with the ones that raise and lower the boom. That should tell.me if the problem is in the cylinder or the control box, right?


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## 47ford (Oct 1, 2019)

Kenyon77 said:


> Wouldn't fluid leak out through the seal if that were the case? I checked the cylinder pretty closely and there are no signs of leakage. For clarification, the gland nut is the one that holds the piston into the cylinder, right?


Yes call it a piston nut, it might help you out to look at cylinder breakdown diagram, I improperly called it a gland nut.


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## Kenyon77 (Jul 8, 2017)

Well, I swapped the lines around and eliminated the possibility of it being the control box. I took the hydraulic cylinder off and took it back to the machine shop that rebuilt them. Apparently, something got inside and scratched the cylinder wall. Which, in turn destroyed the packing. He said he can replace the tube and essentially build a new unit for just under $500.

So, a few questions: First, does anyone know how much it would cost to just buy a whole new cylinder, or where I could get one.

Second, and more important, what can I do to make sure this doesn't happen to the rest of them? I already drained as much hydraulic fluid as I could (the plug in the frame under the left step), and refilled it with new fluid. I also replaced the big paper filter under the big hydraulic cap as well as cleaning the screen where the fluid leaves the reservoir and down to the pump. 

I would love to believe that it was an isolated incident and mayne something somehow got inside through one of the hoses or something, but that isn't how my luck works. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.


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