# Ford model 1920 PTO trouble



## Pmonti (Jun 28, 2014)

The tractor suddenly developed a rattle from the PTO box area. The PTO will not stay engaged. I can hold the lever forward to engage but it will jump out if with an increase in rpm. What is the problem and what is a ballpark estimate to repair.


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## Big_T (Dec 1, 2011)

Hello Pmonti,

Welcome to the Ford/New Holland Ford Tractor Forum.

The first thing I would check is if there is any end play on your PTO shaft. Does it move in/out. If so the bearings are worn allowing the shaft slide out and disengage. See attached parts diagram. 

If there is no appreciable end play, is there an adjustment on your PTO shifter linkage? The linkage may be worn. 

Your 1920 tractor is built by Shibaura (Japan). Parts are very expensive. Bearings shouldn't cost too much. 

You need to get a shop manual for your tractor. They usually have troubleshooting sections telling you what the problem with various symptoms. Tractor parts supply stores on the internet usually have shop/repair manuals. An I&T manual usually runs about $30-$35. Ebay usually has a selection as well.


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

*This is me too*

Hey guys. Poor guy here with no service manual and hoping for an easy fix on my PTO so I can bushhog before I'm overgrown. 

How much in/out play would be considered a bearing issue rather than something else? I can spin the shaft and hear a bad bearing but I don't have a lot of in/out movement.

Does the tractor need to be split to remove the PTO shaft and replace the bearings? 

I have basic tools available, will I need a puller of sorts or a press to get the shaft out and/or bearings off the shaft?

My 1920 has 4600+ hours on it.

edit** The schematic shown is from a new holland and researching looking up manuals, I have seen places say that the new holland should not be used for part ordering. Can anyone with the FORD book verify the part numbers for me?

Thanks for any help on this!


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Ford and New Holland are one and the same. With the exception of the front drive shaft, most of the pto shafts, gears, bearings, seals, and shifting mechanism can be accessed by removing the three point lift housing and draining the hydraulic fluid. 

http://partstore.agriculture.newhol...entNL/parts-search.html#epc::mr126971ar397375


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

Ok thanks. I was under the impression that these particular ford 1920s were japan made and not really ford or new holland and required their own repair manual. I guess I'll give it a go.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

You can get an I&T manual for your 1920 on ebay for $25. Minor investment compared to the cost of parts for a Shibaura built Ford.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Incidentally, there are 16 ea. Ford 1920's listed in salvage in the "dismantled machine" section of http://www.tractorhouse.com/‎


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

I guess my main question now is, Can I change the bearing that would cause it to knock itself out of PTO drive by just draining some fluid and removing the four end bolts around the PTO shaft and pulling it out? Or will I need to take off the top of the 3 pt hitch housing to get it out and back in? I know that some PTO shafts can pull straight out the back and some have retainers in the front that will not allow it to happen that way. 

The diff lock is not working and I was going to look at that too if I had to take off the top.

Thanks everyone so far for all the great info.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

No, it's not that simple. You WILL have to remove the lift housing. You will need to drain ALL the fluid, not just "some". There will be plenty of debris in there by now that needs to be cleaned out so it doesn't end up going through the hydraulic pump. 
The above mentioned manual would be a good investment. A person experienced in this type of tractor and/or repair can probably get by without one, just relying on the parts diagrams. I can tell by your questions thus far, you are not that person.


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

Ha yeah I'm not too familiar with tractor guts. I got a manual coming. I just don't want to tear into it and not have a press or tool that might be required and then have to try to take it somewhere. But if I can do it and save a bunch of cash I'll try it for sure. I was hoping for some advice from some experienced folks here how bad a job is it? I got down to the top cover bolts yesterday while the kid was napping but figured I'd wait to open it up until I got the book and input from here.

Thanks


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

I doubt there is anything special required. A press might be helpful, but not mandatory. I've had a few of those apart, and as I recall, was able to do it with just general service tools I carry with me. An assortment of snap ring pliers, heavy punches, and a means to remove the PTO output shaft are probably all that should be needed. I have a couple of modified driveline yokes that I can attach a slide hammer onto for pulling different size PTO stub shafts. This might be on your list of things to acquire ahead time.


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

Ok thanks again. Been working 16+ hour days this week so no time to get further. Plus still waiting on the book. The book may explain it, but I was wondering if I can pull the top off without taking the 3pt shaft the arms are on out. The lowering speed adjusting knob is bolted to this top as well. Should I just figure on taking all this off the top plate or can I leave everyting on and just unbolt the top and pull it up and off. My thinking is, it may come off with this stuff on it still, but getting it back on would be the problem.

Thanks guys!


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

It all comes off as a package. No need to dismantle any of it other than disconnecting the lift links and the obvious. If you have a shop with a hoist, great. If not, I would simply use a come along to lift the housing. If the tractor has a roll bar and canopy, I remove the lid, and place a 2 x 4 across the frame centered above the lift housing and suspend the come along from that. If no roll bar, then find a rafter or tree limb to park under. Raise the housing high enough to work under, then when you get the parts/pieces out, set it back down while waiting for parts. I've done it many times this way.


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

*Not just a bearing*


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

Looking at the book it appears the top shaft goes to the clutch. So to put in a new shaft and gear will need a split. What do you guys think?


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

So I've been studying things. The shaft appears to be too far forward to ever make full flush contact with the slide gear that moves into place with the PTO engagement handle. Is there an adjustment that can be made to the shaft to slide it back a 1/4" or so? Maybe a snap ring broke that allowed it to move ahead? It looks like it would mesh much better moved toward the rear. If so, maybe I could move the shaft back and file the teeth a little cleaner to get her going again until I get some money to take it to the shop for replacement. 

FYI the PTO side of the clutch is nearly gone and has been since before I got it 3 years ago. If the plates on the clutch are worn badly would that allow the shaft to move forward like it is?


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

The clutch may well have it's issues, but it won't cause the symptoms you described earlier. Deal with first things first. You will have plenty to do in the rear end. Worry about the clutch later.


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

The manual says i need to split the tractor to take out the long PTO shaft that is worn in the pictures. Have you done it without the split? I have no place to split this tractor. So if the only way to fix it is with a split I'll have to wait to take it to the shop.

What do you think about the shaft being too far forward? How does it look to you in the pics?


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Sorry, but I'm not smart enough to open any of your photos, so I'm not at all sure just what you're asking about. Do you have the lift housing off and are looking at the shafts and gears?


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

Well dang they were there last night. I'll try to load them again tonight when I get home.


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

*removal success*

So I really studied the book. It calls for a tractor split to overhaul the PTO. But looking at the schematics, the long PTO shaft on top does not have any snap rings that hold it in place. It just slides into the coupler. The only thing I can't get to it the bearing at the front coupler, so I guess thats why the book say split the tractor. 

So I pulled out the rear bearing seal at the back of the tractor, above the PTO output shaft and gently wiggled the top shaft out. It was extremely painless. The lower PTO output shaft was equally painless. 

I can get to and removed 4 bearings. They are 2 each NSK 6207 and KOYO 6306. Time to open the wallet and order a new PTO shaft and slide gear. 

The pictures in the post above started working again for me. Do you guys see them now? Maybe the moderators had to approve them or something?


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

Ordered the parts and bearings today. The Pto shaft is getting scarce there were 4 left in the country acording to the dealer.

While I wait I have been wondering about the clutch. It is adjusted at the pedal to about 1 inch of free play. The transmission side seems to disengage quickly but the pto half never fully disengages. Are there any other adjustments that can be made? I wouldn't expect a worn clutch to lock up like this one is. The book doesn't offer much help other than a pedal adjustment.


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

*Clutch question*

Ok got the new shaft and slide gear installed. I ran out of daylight but was fooling around with the clutch adjustment. I set it up real tight to see it I could get the pto to not grind when engaging. I could do it but then it's so tight that the transmission side of the clutch never disengages and the tractor doesn't move. So remember I'm poor, and now I'm extra poor after the parts came in. Has anyone ever welded an extension to the throw of the clutch pedal to get by a little longer on a wore out clutch?


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

You're on your own here friend. There may well be some that have tried it, but probably few that will admit it.


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

*Clutch rig*

Fedup thanks for all the spot on advice on the fix of the PRO guts. 

I made a bolt on extension for the clutch. It worked but it's real tight to push down to get the pto to disengage. So what chances am I taking by running it like this? Am I risking the clutch exploding or what?


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

I doubt anything in the clutch might explode. I would expect the pins and links in there are capable of the added strain. If there is a weak spot here, I think it might be where the release fork is connected to the cross shaft. The load here is transferred through two 6mm roll pins. Not a lot of beef. I've seen transmission shift forks connected to shift rails by similar pins sheared off by an over aggressive hand movement. You can apply much more effort with your foot/leg than most people can with one hand on a shift lever. 
I think I can appreciate your position here, but I wouldn't consider what you have as a long term fix. It may well operate this way for a long time, but then again, maybe not.


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

Exactly not long term for sure. Everywhere has 0% interest for 7 years. I am thinking now that everything works on the tractor I need to seriously think of trading it in.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Trading it in? On what? 0% only applies to new. Certainly you don't want new. You think you have problems now? Buy new and see what happens.


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## myusersname (Jun 11, 2016)

Fedup said:


> Trading it in? On what? 0% only applies to new. Certainly you don't want new. You think you have problems now? Buy new and see what happens.


Yeah new. Not a sub compact more like a utility tractor. Probably will look at an LS or a Massey Ferguson. I've had this one for four years and it's a great tractor but I don't think I want to start throwing a thousand dollars at it every six months with 4600 hours on it. It's time for a new one while this one is glued together for a trade in. 

Got suggestions on a new purchase? I want at least 28 hp to the PTO.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

myusersname said:


> Yeah new. Not a sub compact more like a utility tractor. Probably will look at an LS or a Massey Ferguson. I've had this one for four years and it's a great tractor but I don't think I want to start throwing a thousand dollars at it every six months with 4600 hours on it. It's time for a new one while this one is glued together for a trade in.
> 
> Got suggestions on a new purchase? I want at least 28 hp to the PTO.


Well, it's been two years since this post, and two years since you were here last and we're just dying to see what you finally ended up with?


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

If you are looking for a new utility tractor; LS, Kubota, and MF are reasonable candidates. Spend some time with the dealer going through their offerings, and if any of them include computer controlled anything other than the fuel injection, walk away.


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