# Ford 5000 Mussings, Parts and Questions.



## MrChris (Oct 4, 2018)

Well, I've had some seat time in the new (to me) machine. The previous owner's 'records' are not exactly stellar and I've see a few fuel leaks, so I'm going to assume all the maintenance is needed and all the fluids need to be replaced. I've got parts on order and wanted to just list things here so that A) I have a reference if I lose my notes, and B) Others can benefit.

All in all, the machine is in great shape for being 50 years old. Minor leaks and lighting issues aside, I can't find any mechanical problems.

Mine is a Gas powered 1968 Ford 5000, yours might be different, so check before you spend. My Product Code is: E1024C, the Date code is: 8J25B (A mid week day shift) Serial number starts with 'C218'. My engine has screw in plugs which I thought I read is supposed to be the 233cid, but everything from '68 on should have been a 256cid. I have no idea just which engine this is and I have not found the numbers yet to look things up.

All the cylinders had a compression test just over 100psi and were within 5 lbs of each other. I can't find any data on what it should be, but having nearly the same result on all 4 cylinders is very good and she runs well. Plugs looked really good. Little more carbon than perfect, but nothing I would be worried about. Seems like engine internals are all OK, but I'll be checking the valve lash at some point just to be sure.

I hope to have some photos once I can take some in the daylight. This whole examine the machine with a flashlight is for the birds.
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Stuff I've learned:

Points - I hate points. Had too many issues with them in the Jeep and a damp day can be frustrating. Well worth tossing them for a more reliable setup. (Don't throw away the parts though - Great to keep as a backup) For this, order the Pertronix kit # 1249. The kit installs easily and really helps produce good consistent spark. Might want to upgrade the coil and plug wires at the same time, but not necessary.

Oils - The engine uses 8 quarts of 10w-30 and whatever the volume of the filter is. When I spoke to a couple people that know this stuff, they recommended that I use an oil with zinc due to the age of the engine (mine is from 1968) This adds a layer of protection that most modern oils do not have, but was very common on the older machines. The transmission and Rear axle can both use Universal Tractor Oil. You better check your budget because you are going to need 12+ gallons of the stuff depending on how much Hydraulic equipment you have. In my situation, a case of Amsoil Z-Rod 10w-30 and 3 5-gallon buckets of UTO is nearly $500.

Coolant is just under 4 gallons. 2 gallons of straight anti-freeze and then top off with water should provide a good mix. 

Engine Oil filter - Purolator PBL30001 or compatible for the spin-on conversion.

Spark Plug is a very common Autolite 405

Alternator conversion: https://www.dbelectrical.com/produc...it-ford-tractor-2000-3000-4000-5000-7000.html Currently out of stock, but this is a priority of mine to bring the charging system up to date so that I can swap in an AGM style battery for longer life. I'll write up the install when I get one.

Front tires on my machine are 7.5-16 6-ply which is not what is listed, but the previous owner swears he never changed size, maybe his dad did, or the dealer upgraded for some reason. Either way, they look fine on the machine and are certainly stronger than the factory spec. Both mine need to be replaced, but much better than needing rear tires - those look nearly new. With both the roll bar and the fenders, my rear tires are pretty much set to the maximum width and measure 82" from sidewall to sidewall. This was important because finding a trailer to haul it home was not easy. I have not recorded the rear tire size, but I did note that they were Firestone, so at least it's a decent brand.

I absolutely need to work on the lights. Rear light has an obvious broken wire. Left headlight comes on at times, right appears to be dead. The fender flasher is not working - might be the same busted wire. The dash lights are half out. My plan is to run what new wire I need, replace the headlights with LEDs (4.5" replacements for the sealed beam are pretty common) and do what I can with the rear lights. As for the dash - hopefully I can change those bulbs. If I can, I'll find me some cool LEDs for that too. Why all these LEDs? So that I can add some work lights up on the canopy - It's DARK around here. 

The ignition key switch is tight. I sprayed it once and that helped, but it needs some more attention. I have the original Ford key, so I'm willing to try to resurrect the switch than just replace it. 

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Questions:

Gas fuel tank to shut off valve. Is there a gasket that can be changed? How do you do this? I assume you need to bolt it from the inside of the tank? Any known effective 'Bubba' methods to get that to seal?

Is there a replacement gasket for the fuel level sending unit? My gauge is working fine, but I can't fill the tank all the way because this leaks. Or is this a case of "just replace it"?

Are all the Holley carbs on these Fords similar? There is so much gunk on mine I can't see any numbers even after wiping down the top of the bowl in several places and I'd much prefer to not pull it off to really clean it up until I have all the new parts ready to install as it looks like there are a few seals leaking and cleaning might just make it leak to the point of being unusable. Is it worth ordering a throttle shaft replacement and float replacement or are those rarely an issue?

Distributor cap - I can find a rotor easily enough, but a replacement cap does not appear anywhere. Any ideas? There are 3-cylinder caps all over, but have not seen a 4-cylinder. Might not need to be replaced, but I'm used to replacing the cap and rotor as a pair.

Clutch engages high on the pedal. The service manual does not really address this. It's fully engaged, so no issue there. Just wondering if this might be indication of low lifespan remaining? Or just needs a little adjusting?

Is it normal for the transmission positions to not really feel like they engage? Everything holds just fine. I just don't get any feedback regarding the fact it is in gear. And the high-low barely moves across the range. Normal?

How long does the grin last? I don't think I've been as worked up about a new vehicle in a long time.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

To your questions.

The fuel valve in the bottom of the tank unscrews and has a fine screen on the intake up in the tank. The only replaceable parts are the seal on the petcock, the retainer hair pin, and the fine intake screen. The best choice is to replace the entire assembly with an aftermarket valve.

The fuel sender gasket is normally supplied as a component of an aftermarket replacement sender unit from dealers like Steiner Tractor. The gasket is available from Ebay, and if you take the old gasket to a NAPA store they can match it with a generic product.

The Holly carburetors are similar, but different models are jetted differently. The rebuild kit for your tractor is also available from Steiner Tractor. But make sure the shafts are not worn and wobbly, because a new replacement unit is sometimes the best choice.

Worthingtonagparts, SSBtractor, Ebay, and NAPA have the distributor cap and distributor parts.

Regarding your clutch, you want to verify the specific clutch you have. I do them by feel, but it depends on the configuration as to how much free play is required. Go here and look up your model, then select the transmission assembly and go to the clutch diagrams: https://partstore.agriculture.newholland.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::home Your repair manual should have a section on adjusting each type of clutch.

I am guessing you have the standard four speed with the high-low range lever on the right and the gear shift on the left. Both those levers should snap into the gear selected. Inside the transmission are springs, plungers, and ball bearings that snap into the notches on the shift rails to hold the shift forks in the proper engagement. Over time the springs get tired and no longer hold tension on the plungers and balls. Replacement is straight forward, and covered in your repair manual. Most dealers have the replacement springs, plungers, and balls in stock.

Lastly, the smile just gets greater on ownership of these tractors built by real craftpersons that were paid a living wage!


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## MrChris (Oct 4, 2018)

Thanks for the incredibly helpful reply.

I found a replacement fuel valve. However, I'm wondering if the current one is actually leaking or it is just appearing to do so because it is where the gas goes when it leaks from the sending unit. I've cleaned up a lot of the grime And there isn't any sign of a leak now.

Got a carb kit from Steiner and rebuilt my carb (see the tech forum) and other than being filthy and a stuck vacuum operated accelerator pump which took some work to get loose, everything cleaned up and reassembled nicely. Throttle and choke now work smoothly. 

Still can't find a distributor cap at a reasonable price. Mine isn't too bad, so I'm just going to reuse it. I will remain on the lookout for replacements.

Oh, I think my clutch is ok. It's just that for the amount of range the pedal has, there is very little movement to go from no engagement to ful engagement. Took a while to really get used to that.

I'll look into replacing the detents in the transmission in the spring. You are right, the job does not look to be very hard. Thanks for the info.

Yea, this machine is extreme well built. other than a few odd quirks like the hard to reach parking brake lock, I've got no complaints.

Thanks again


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

I'm not as familiar with the 5000s as I am the 2/3/4000s but on those the brake lock handle was way down on the step plate and hard to reach.
Ford rectified that in 76 on the 26,36,4600s by moving the T handle up onto the flow control valve making it much easier. I don't know what they did on the 56, 66, 7600s but would guess they did something similar.
If you ever get to a boneyard maybe look at what they did there and buy those parts.
I have put the newer handles on a couple of older tractors and it was a pretty simple conversion.


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## MrChris (Oct 4, 2018)

Yup, the 5000 is pretty much the same. The handle is lower than the brake pedals, quite the reach to grab it. Although it kind of does force you to really mash the brakes in the process. (^_^) Your extension looks simple enough. Probably not too tough to make the bracket and put in a longer operating rod. I'll have to look at that when spring rolls around. Already too many projects before the snow flies. (^_^)


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## MrChris (Oct 4, 2018)

This past weekend saw the last steps of the tune up. Been a LONG process with many parts ordered and delays. What appears below is a narrative that covers nearly a month. Between rusted parts, fasteners that would not budge without extreme means, and all kinds of other issues, this simple "tune up" became a marathon.

First, that swing out battery tray is the coolest thing. When I first saw the thing, I just could not believe you had to disconnect the battery and pull that off to change plugs thinking it was to be removed completely. Mine had a regular nut holding the tray locked. Actually, it might have been a wing nut that both wings had broken off. Took some serious effort to get what remained off. Then I pulled the cotter pin on the post and could not figure out how that side was to come off. Somewhere along the way, I pulled on the tray and it pivoted a little. And suddenly it was like "Lightbulb!" The whole thing was rusted and seized up, so it took some penetrating oil and effort to get it to really move freely. I then greased up the pivot and cleaned up the parts best I could. Now it works great. As for the lock, I got a brass wingnut so that it would not seize up again and then ran the j-hook piece that latches the tray through a die to clean up the threads. Now I can easily open and close the battery tray.

Did I mention how NICE it is to work on a machine where you don't wonder if the fasteners are SAE or metric? Everything on this puppy is nice old fashioned SAE. Half inch is really half inch and not 13mm. 

In the process of working the tray, I discovered that the battery cables were brittle, not to mention the rusted hardware on the clamp. A set of new cables went in. Of course, removing the battery gives you a nice tray to put all your tools on as you work. I didn't put the battery back right away.

With the tray functioning and swung out of the way, I could now see the leaking fuel line and the spark plugs. Spark plugs didn't look like they had been touched in a long time. The wires were rather weathered. And the fuel line cracked right at the clamp which appears to have been applied FAR too tight in the first place.

Lets start with the fuel line. Other than the damaged area where the clamp was, it looked fine. No need to struggle with accessing the connector behind the fan and replacing the entire thing. I cut the line just forward of the clamp and installed some rubber fuel line hose and a fuel filter. In all, I probably cut out about 8" of line. I used the original clamp to hold the new fuel line (lightly) and added some support for the back end of the fuel filter with a scrap piece of angle iron attached to an existing bolt on the intake manifold. The result was a nice solid and well supported line and no more fuel leak.

Spark plugs were another story. Between Mongo, the ape that installed them, and the rust that had formed all around the base, the spark plugs were a bear to get out. No idea how old, but they didn't look too bad at the electrode end. Probably due to the low number of hours on the machine. Still, they really needed to be changed. While I had the plugs out and the carb on the bench for a rebuild, I did a compression test on all the cylinders. Not sure what the true value should be, but all 4 cylinders were within 5 lbs of each other. No surprises thankfully. What was surprising was that there was no washer on the plugs I removed. Not sure if it was supposed to be there or not, but I used them on the plugs I installed. I easily spent well over an hour on each plug between removal, compression testing, and getting a new one in place.

I was able to find a rotor, but distributor caps for these machines are like unicorns. There are a couple on-line at crazy prices (between $70 and $140) but even my local NAPA has no listing. I've heard there is an industrial engine application which works, but still trying to track down the details. As it is, my cap wasn't too bad, so I reused it. First time ever I replaced only a rotor during a tuneup.

I did install new sparkplug wires. Having rubber bits flaking off while I was changing the plugs was not exactly confidence inspiring. I used a universal kit rather than specific Ford ones as they were easier to get. I think they also look nicer, but that's just a personal opinion. The only issue might be the lack of a boot covering the entire hole. Then again, the old boots didn't stop crud and moisture from getting in. The new boots have a flange down low that might help pull out the crud when I pull them off and moisture can't get to the plug as easily now.

While I had the distributor open, I addressed the points. Ever since I rebuilt my '46 Willys, I've been a fan of the Pertronix ignitions. These replace the points and condenser with a magnetic system that does not wear and typically provides a much cleaner pulse. So, out came the points and condenser and in went the Pertronix setup. The swap requires no modifications, just care in installing the new parts. You can swap back the old setup at any time, but I have no idea why you would ever want to. The magnet ring that sits on the old point lobes was a very tight fit and I needed to use a large deep socket to push the ring down on the lobes. I don't recall needing to do that on other engines, but it sure isn't falling off. I think this is the fifth kit I've installed and they just work. No more moisture or wear issues.

I also replaced the ignition coil. No idea what the old one was, but to be sure things were all working properly, I swapped it out. This alone took far longer than it should. The bracket was all rusted and the clamping bolt could not be removed. Of course, the clamping bolt was blocking one of the mounting bolts, so I had to cut off the clamping bolt. Too tight for the blue wrench, so out came the Dremel and using really small cutting disks due to the tight space, I was able to get the bolt out. I tossed the old bracket and made a new one out of some sheet metal. My design ensured that the coil was held snug by the tightening of the stock mounting bolts. No need to have a clamping bolt. This one modification took about 8 hours total thanks to the rusted parts being hard to get at. At least I could fabricate the new bracket in the nice dry garage. 

There is a vacuum advance on the distributor which is operated by a tube that attaches to the intake manifold via a short hardline. The one that was in there was some kind of hand formed looped mess. It actually stuck out and the loops made it hard to get at the plug wires on the distributor. I got a new steel line, bent it properly with nice large radius bends and now there is a clean run from the manifold to the distributor. 

And, of course, the tractor won't run. She sat there for a week as I pondered all the possible points of failure. It isn't really all that hard. Fuel, air, and spark are the only items. 

Well, I whacked myself in the head and remembered that I'd turned off the fuel because of the leak in the line. Should have realized this instantly when there wasn't any fuel in the new filter (it's clear). But alas, still won't start. And of course, now the battery is dead. So, while the battery charged overnight, I again pondered the potentials.

Air is pretty much a given. And since the engine cranks easier with the choke off than on, it's pretty obvious that air was OK. In fact, the air filter is one thing I did not replace as it looked fairly new.

That leaves spark. Bad ignition? Bad coil? Hmm. Lots of new parts in there. Where to begin? So I started at the most obvious point and checked the original line that was connected to the old coil. Should be 12V when the key is on. Nothing. AH-HAH! Wait, how did this ever work? To this day, I have no idea how the hell the tractor ran with that old wire. I can't find anything that ever gets 12v along that path. Just to be sure that was the problem, I hooked up a wire direct to the battery and tried cranking the tractor. VAROOM! Started almost instantly. Whew, at least everything else seems OK.

So, I created a new ignition wire and hooked it to the switched side of the key and everything now works. But what the heck was that old circuit? Just bizarre. Someday I might trace it and figure it out. As it was, the old wire was some user spliced item, so who knows. What I'd like to know is how the tractor could ever run. Given the amount of "user spliced" I've found, I wonder just how much of this still works like the factory intended. I've already decided that I'll need to run all new lighting wires once I start that project. 

In any case, this chronicles nearly 3 weeks of off and on work that has been done to the machine. Only running issue now is that I can't seem to get it to idle properly. Still dies when it drops below 1000 rpm. Not instantly, but a slow sputtering death. I'm wondering if my new vacuum line is leaking air. No real problem as I never need to run lower than 1000 rpm anyway. But it is going to annoy me to no end until I solve it. (^_^)

I hope to get a photo or two up of the finished work. Sadly, it's now dark when I get home, so will likely have to wait until the weekend.

Last item to complete before winter is to change the fluids. Hopefully that will not pose too many issues.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

Two things make me a little sad about your post.
First is the rubber fuel line.
That old system with steel lines and 4 (four. Count em) filters in the system worked good though you do have to maintain them every 20 years or so. 
Second is the lack of boots on your spark plug wires.
If you ever have to dig out the crud and rust that drops into the SP holes, bust the porcelain off and drive a socket into the hole to get a plug out you will realize exactly why Ford put those boots on them.
As for the wire running to the coil: Ford used a special resistive wire that dropped the voltage to the coil.
It plugged into a bullet connector by the solenoid and was 3 loops back and forth then covered together.
If you bought a new coil that states no resister required you can eliminate that resistor wire.
Double thumbs up on going to EI. Getting to the points in those 3 and 4 cyl gassers is a pia. 
Also, aren't those swing out battery trays swell for tools, parts and whatever?
All in all a good post.
But what were your compression numbers?
Book says they should read 115-150 psi with max variation of 25 psi.


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## MrChris (Oct 4, 2018)

I'm not super happy with the rubber line either. However, pulling apart the front end to access the line as it exits the fuel pump seems to be a lot of work. That said, I have a new hard line, bender, and flaring tool, so when I do get in there, I can revisit the whole issue. I too am not thrilled with the bodge, but it solved the fuel leak issue. And, I was able to support the entire piece so that there should be no stress or vibration on the remaining lines.

If someone has a diagram or instructions on how that whole body panel setup comes apart I'd love to see it. I need to get into the "dashboard" too and I don't exactly see how all that sheetmetal is fastened. 

The plug wires do have boots, but the full diameter flange is down in the holes. This was done because I wanted new wires NOW and the only thing that came close at the local Napa was this universal set. Again, not ideal, but it works. I'll have to try to keep crud from building up on the top of the engine. 

New coil does not need a resistor, and the ignition doesn't care. Maybe that is the problem. Still, I wasn't getting any voltage at all on the original wire. The wire is still there if anyone needs to go back to it. And yes, it does have some kind of loop by the solenoid, but then went to a wire nut with a new wire running to the coil. Obviously a previous owner's 'fix'. I simply removed the wire to the coil (it measured virtually no resistance) and capped the other with the wire nut.

Actually, removing the points and installing the new ignition wasn't hard. I did have to dig out the little stubby screwdriver to work in the space, but all in all it wasn't a tough job. Far far easier than the plugs. I also lubed the distributor while I was in there. Was very clean. And the old points looked almost new.

Now I need to find the right size stubby screwdriver to undo the rings that hold in the headlights. Wow are those things in an awkward location. And the bolts look rusted solid.

The swing out tray is absolutely one of the best mechanical features I've ever seen. That is simply something we'll never see again. Nobody is going to waste the expense and weight to do that these days.

I wish I could remember the exact numbers on the compression. When I saw the difference was so minor, I simply didn't care. It was like 132-137 or something like that across all 4 cylinders. Somewhere in the 130's or maybe one in the 120's. At under 8:1 compression ratio that seemed reasonable to me.


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## MrChris (Oct 4, 2018)

Finally got some pictures. Gets dark so quickly now. Snow by tomorrow night. By the way, I might not be able to get a shelter for this thing up before winter really hits. How well do these machines fare if allowed to weather the season? Anything I should try to protect? I've already got a solar battery tender to keep the battery in good shape. Just hate to fix 'er up and then lose it due to a nasty winter. Would a tarp be a good idea? 

OK, Photos.

Here is the engine with the swing away battery:









Closeup of the new coil, wires, rebuilt carb, etc.









Closeup of the plug wires and bodge of a fuel line.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

I think tarps just hold the moisture under them and do more harm than good.
I've had tractors that had to sit outside over winter with no ill effects. I did cover the seat though. Nothing more annoying than a wet, frozen butt.
Anymore, on a tractor that I plan to use in winter I'll put a block heater on it. Even on a diesel if you plug it in for an hour or two it will start like it's July.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

I've had to leave mine out over the years, but now have a place to put them away. A tarp can trap moisture as Ultradog mentioned, so if you do cover it with a tarp, make sure it's not tight and still has plenty of ventilation flow.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Here is the firm that makes breathable covers we use for our show tractors that get left in lots waiting for shows. I have even used them on antique tractors that get rolled out in the weather for extended periods waiting for hard to find parts.

http://www.cover-systems.us/tractor-covers/listofcovers.php


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