# 12 volt conversion problems



## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

I wanted to convert my Case SC to 12 volt alternator. The previous owner had added the resistor to the wire going to the coil and the 12 volt battery so I thought I would finish the job and add an alternator to keep it charged up and run lights.

I went through the process and have a problem. The tractor will start right up but only runs for the couple of seconds I am pushing on the starter button then dies like I pushed in the ignition switch after I let off the starter button. What am I doing wrong?

I have attached the schematic I used to rewire it (I think)

Thanks
Andy


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## Rodster (Sep 26, 2003)

By looking at your wiring it looks like your positive wire goes to the starter switch but will not feed the rest of the circut when the starter switch is released. 
Rodster


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## Rodster (Sep 26, 2003)

Are you getting 12 volts to the ignition switch without pushing the starter button?
Rodster


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Rodster _
> *By looking at your wiring it looks like your positive wire goes to the starter switch but will not feed the rest of the circut when the starter switch is released.
> Rodster *


That sounds correct but how would I fix it? In other words how should I run the wires to fix this? Unfortunatly I don't remember how it was wired before I started ( thats what I get when I try to fit these projects into any spare moment). Any suggestions or ways to test it would be welcomed.

Thanks
Andy


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## Rodster (Sep 26, 2003)

Are the two wires at the starter connected to each other or seperate? I can't tell by the picture.
Rod


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## caseman-d (Nov 29, 2003)

Looking at the diagram it doesn't look right.
you should have a hot wire from starter to starter button then to alt gauge then to off on switch. Does anyone agree to this. Then I was thinking the on off switch should have a wire running to coil. I am trying to think how I rewired my w-6 and w-9. 

<img src =http://www.tractorforum.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=62963>

open for ideas here guys and gals.
caseman-d


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## Rodster (Sep 26, 2003)

He does have a wire from the ignition switch to he coil. If he is wired like the diagram.

What he needs to let us know is does the wire from the + side of the battery make a constant connection to the ammeter or go through the starter switch. it needs to be constant hot to the ammeter. Until we hear the answer we can't help. 

Also when he gets this problem fixed I would fuse the system.

Rodster


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## bear (Oct 20, 2003)

that schematic looks right. rodster said it all have to have power to the ammeter


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Rodster _
> *He does have a wire from the ignition switch to he coil. If he is wired like the diagram.
> 
> What he needs to let us know is does the wire from the + side of the battery make a constant connection to the ammeter or go through the starter switch. it needs to be constant hot to the ammeter. Until we hear the answer we can't help.
> ...


Rodster

Originally there was a wire going from the hot side of the starter button to the ammeter but since it wasn't shown on this diagram I took it off. After this problem started I went to put it back on but when I tried to connect it the starter tried to turn over and it sparked. I disconnected it quickly and of course the 10 gage wire got hot. I cannot tell which side of the ammeter or the ignition switch the wires should attach to from the diagram. The wire from the starter to the ammeter sparked on either post.

I tried to follow the diagram very closely but didn't know which side of the ignition and ammeter to attach the wires to. I haven't gone through and tried switching all the wires but the ones I did change made no difference.

Thanks 
Andy


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## Chipmaker (Sep 16, 2003)

Does the feed from the starter to the ignition switch stay hot after you release the starter button / key? You may have a bad solenoid on the starter itself thats letting the starter solenoids AUX terminal dropout, thus killing power to the ignition switch. Attach a jumper wire to the batterys + terminal directly to the ignition terminal on the switch or to the run terminal and try it. If it works you have a solenoid problem on the starter or its wired wrong. Usually the solenoid is powered up to engage the starter and while its powered up it holds a circuit to the iginition as well., until the key is turned off.


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## caseman-d (Nov 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by caseman-d _
> *Looking at the diagram it doesn't look right.
> you should have a hot wire from starter to starter button then to alt gauge then to off on switch. Does anyone agree to this. Then I was thinking the on off switch should have a wire running to coil. I am trying to think how I rewired my w-6 and w-9.
> 
> ...


Guess the reason i thought it dodn't look right is because the starter button isn't located on the starter, thats why it should have a wire running from starter to starter buttom, then a wire from starter button to amp gauge, then amp gauge to on/off switch, then a wire from on/off to dist or am I confused. The picture must be showing the starter button on the starter????
caseman-d


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Rodster _
> *Are the two wires at the starter connected to each other or seperate? I can't tell by the picture.
> Rod *


Rod 

They are attached to the same post on the starter.

Andy


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Chipmaker _
> *Does the feed from the starter to the ignition switch stay hot after you release the starter button / key? You may have a bad solenoid on the starter itself thats letting the starter solenoids AUX terminal dropout, thus killing power to the ignition switch. Attach a jumper wire to the battery's + terminal directly to the ignition terminal on the switch or to the run terminal and try it. If it works you have a solenoid problem on the starter or its wired wrong. Usually the solenoid is powered up to engage the starter and while its powered up it holds a circuit to the ignition as well., until the key is turned off. *


Chipmaker

The big feed from the starter button to the starter is only hot when I push the button. In the diagram it would be between the battery + post and the starter on the heavy black wire. The ignition switch is just an on/off switch that you pull out when you want to start it and then push the starter button to make it turn over. When you push the ignition button in, it shuts the engine off. It always worked fine til now. Now when I push the starter button the engine starts but as soon as I let off the starter button it shuts off just like I pushed in the ignition switch. So somehow I have to rewire something to the ignition switch to make it stay running after I release the starter button but I don't know what. I did notice that if I don't pull out the ignition switch it will not start and when I have the ignition switch pulled out it will start so that part works correctly . Now I just need to figure out how to keep it running.

The only other thing that is different than the schematic is that I don't have a warning light installed from the ignition to the alternator #1 post. It is just a solid wire but I can't see how that would make a difference. 

Andy


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## Rodster (Sep 26, 2003)

I wish you lived closer. 

let me know if I have this right. You have the wire from the + side of your battery going to the starter switch. At the same connection point ( same side of the switch) you have the wire that runs to the ammeter. 
On the other side of the starter switch you have a wire that goes to your starter or starter solonoid. 
Is this right?
Rodster


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Rodster _
> *I wish you lived closer.
> 
> let me know if I have this right. You have the wire from the + side of your battery going to the starter switch. At the same connection point ( same side of the switch) you have the wire that runs to the ammeter.
> ...


I wish you lived closer too!!! 

You were very close in youyr decription.

I have a heavy wire going from the + side of battery to one side of the starter button (looks like the push button starter on the floor of the old cars before they had keys) and another heavy wire going from the other post on the starter button going to the starter. also on the same post on the starter is a lighter wire going to the ammeter the same as is on the diagram.

Originally there was a wire setup the same as you described with another smaller wire attached on the same post of the starter button as the wire coming from the + side of the battery so that would always be hot as long as the battery has juice. This smaller wire went over to one of the posts on the ammeter. 

Since nothing like that is on the diagram I was following I took it off. After I had the current problem I tried to put it back on but when I went to connect it to the same post it was on before on the ammeter (which is the one on the diagram with the three other wires on it - lights, alternator Bat and ignition) it sparked and tried to turn over the starter. 

Hope this helps


Andy


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## Rodster (Sep 26, 2003)

Andy
It sounds like you need to take the small wire off the starter switch that goes to the ammeter and move it to the same side that the battery wire is on. You should NOT have any other wire
on the side that goes to the starter. 
If you have a small wire on each side of the starter switch going to the ammeter it would spark and try to turn the starter.
Rod


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## caseman-d (Nov 29, 2003)

Here is a picture of the electrical system on the D series tractors.

<img src =http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/caseman-d/tractor%20pull/100-0024_IMG_2.jpg>

hope this will make sense to you.
caseman-d


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

Thanks Rodster

I'll check that when I get home tonight (if it stops raining)

Thanks Caseman

I am always better with a picture to work from


I'll let you know how it works out.

Andy


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Rodster _
> *Andy
> It sounds like you need to take the small wire off the starter switch that goes to the ammeter and move it to the same side that the battery wire is on. You should NOT have any other wire
> on the side that goes to the starter.
> ...


Rodster

Just so I'm clear when you refer to the starter switch you mean the push button starter button not the ignition switch right?

Andy


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## Rodster (Sep 26, 2003)

Right ............the one that runs the starter motor.
Rodster


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

I love a good mystery story... I can't wait to see how this one turns out.  Hopefully a happy ending!


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## Rodster (Sep 26, 2003)

Hey Andy
What happned? We need an update.
Rodster
:question: :question: :question:


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

Sorry for not updating you guys before this. I have tried to get it started after redoing some wires based upon Rodster's help. So far it has rained every day this week and I think I have some moisture in the distributor or something cause it won't start at all now 

It's supposed to be dryer this weekend and hopefully I can get it going then.

I'll keep you updated

Andy


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## caseman-d (Nov 29, 2003)

send that rain to western SD we need it    
caseman-d


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

IT LIVES!!:smiles: 

Finally got some dry weather and time today and after much tinkering and head scratching it started right up!! Sure was nice to hear it run again. Another plus was that the alternator seems to be charging well too. The ammeter showed +15 (amps or volts?) which I took to mean that it was working. After running for about 20 mins the ammeter showed about +8 and so I figured that the battery was getting more charged and therefore drawing less power from the alternator. Does that sound correct?? I'm not really familiar with ammeters so I'm not sure what is normal. 

I also realized that I do need to do some rewiring of the ignition switch because when I push it in the engine doesn't turn off. I figure there is only three wires going to it so I must have one on the wrong side. I also can see that I need to replace the heavy battery cables going to the starter and to the battery cause with all this turning over of the starter trying to get it going I think I have finished off the ones on it now. Oh well I knew I would need to replace them sometime. Better now than when it -10 and blowing snow.

I still have to hook up the new lights I bought for it but I hope this goes more smoothly than this project. 

Thanks for all the TF members help in getting me going again!

:thumbsup: 

Andy


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## Rodster (Sep 26, 2003)

Thats good news.
If the ignition switch is not turning off unhook your battery when not running it or your battery will drain down because you are putting power to your coil. 
Rodster


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## memmurphy (Sep 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rodster _
> *Thats good news.
> If the ignition switch is not turning off unhook your battery when not running it or your battery will drain down because you are putting power to your coil.
> Rodster *


Good point Rodster. If the engine would happen to stop with the points closed it would probably burn them and/or the coil out as well as drain the battery.

Mark


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## chrpmaster (May 5, 2004)

Thanks again guys for your help. I was working on the ignition problem yesterday (remember the one where it wouldn't shut off with the ignition switch) and discovered the problem. The wire going from the alternator #1 terminal to the ignition switch was providing power to the other side of the ignition ( probably from the alternator) and when I removed it the ignition switch worked as it was supposed to. So I thought I would just attach it to the other side of the ignition switch which also has a constant hot wire from the ammeter but was concerned about draining the battery or burning up some other part by having power going to the alternator all the time even when the engine is off.

It was charging the battery well when it was hooked up incorrectly to the ignition switch so the #1 alternator wire needs to be hooked up somewhere but I thought you would want the power cut off (like though the ignition switch) when the tractor is not running.

Any thoughts on this issue?

Andy


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## Rodster (Sep 26, 2003)

Hi Andy
I am not sure what to do on this problem. Your picture
calls for that wire to be on the coil side of the switch. I would not try leaving it on the hot side. Hopefully somebody more in the know will offer to help. I don't want to steer you wrong and burn something up.
Rodster


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