# Cc2186



## cohiba_33

Ok, finally...my first post. I've been reading from this forum since March. I tried to gather as much info about my first tractor and decided on the Cub Cadet 2186. 

After 25 hours, I have no complaints yet. Actually learning how to service it myself too! Didn't screw anything up...yet. Also got a cart & bagger (don't care for the bagger much) but here is my question... 

I can't stand - not being able to mow in reverse. I've searched the archives and only found how to disconnect another CC model. 
How do I disconnect the automatic shut-off when backing up on the 2186? 

Thank you all in advance. Great site!


----------



## jodyand

Welcome cohiba_33:friends: 

From what i remember you follow the rod from the peddle to the back. There should be a spring at the end with a leaver and a push button switch. Push the leaver it back and turn in down away from the switch. Thats about all i remember.


----------



## johndeere

On the opposite foot board is where you find the switch that Jody mentioned.Follow the linkage across there you will find a plunger switch under the foot board.There is a metal finger that contacts the switch when you bach up.There is a spring attached to the metal finger.If you remove the spring the finger drops down and will not contact the switch.Then you can back up with out this problem.

You could also leave the spring attached and use a plastic tie strap to tie the finger down so that it will not contact the plunger switch.


----------



## jodyand

There you go johndeere knows he has done it i was trying to remember how i read it before. I have a 1525 and it done different then the 2166 and 2186.


----------



## cohiba_33

Thanks.... It worked. It's right where Johndeere said it would be. I tied it down instead of removing the spring. 

Thanks again!


----------



## jodyand

Glad it work theres nothing more aggravating when you can mow in reverse.


----------



## Neil_nassau

I've watched this thread and just have to add something.......

The manufacturer is setting up the machine to shutoff the blades in reverse for a very valid reason. I,for one , have a liberterian view that less government in our lives is better............but in this case,for our industry, it is regulate yourselves or be regulated by government and ruined by the ambulance chasing lawyers in this country.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like being protected from myself any more than any of you. But its a fact that when a riding mower accident happens........its violent, traumatic and often fatal, and DOES nOT happen to the operator....leaving the person it happened to believing (with help from attorneys) it wasn't your fault when it very often is. I offer this link as a resource of what is lurking for the manufacturers in the legal world. Notice in the headline 'Its not your fault",implying that the safe operation of a riding mower is somehow NOT the responsibilty of the person controling it.

But the fact remains that it is his responsibility.........and you fellow forum members have just done something that I have steadfastly refused to do. Modify a machine and putting all that I have worked for at risk. I simply won't do it.

As is often the case, legal realities affect the products we love because some REALLY stupid people do things like this or even worse this. You have to question the wisdom of operating a mower with all those kids around or allowing an 8 year old to run a rider. But it happens everyday and every year with more riders being sold.

I'm not criticizing you ........just wanting you to pause and think. Maybe just changing my mowing habits a little , moving a bush, or leaving an area to comeback and cut with a trimmer or handmower will make my yard a safer pace for my spouse and others. 
Thanks for listening


----------



## Willie Nunez

Neil,
You're kinda "on the other side". I mean, you're in business and you have to protect yourself just like the manufacturers. In the last business I owned, El Paso Speedway Park, I was "served" seven(7) times! And, ended up in court 4 times. I won every time(due to my insurance company, and their Philadelphia lawyers). The last lawsuit that we won, the insurance company sued back! They demanded that they be paid all their expenses. They won by summary judgement! Liens were placed on the complainant's properties, and it ruined his credit. But, I actually "lost" because it soured me so much( that people now have such a "lotto" mentality), I ended up selling everything several years later. 
I don't blame the tractor manufacturers for implementing all the safety devices. But, I'm really happy they make it easy for me to disable the safety switches. Here's how I figure it, if I hurt someone due my negligence, I should be held accountable, pure and simple. But meanwhile, I'll enjoy life to the fullest by not having to put up with the safety switch nonsense. The double standard works for me just fine. I will NOT post any instructions on disabling these switches. I don't want to share responsiblility for someone else's negligence......just mine.
Of course, someone will say, but what if.............. And, that's OK 'cause I ain't going to respond.


----------



## Neil_nassau

A wise man I worked for over 16 years once said..............."There are no winners in a court room...."

I've been in them before,nothing serious,but enough I don't like the it..............and like the Allstate commercial says.........the defendants chair is a lonely place.


----------



## bontai Joe

Thanks Neil! Good post. I still have all the safety devices on my old tractors, because I just felt they were there to save me from hurting myself. Mine are old enough that I can mow in reverse, but if and when the time comes, I'll learn the new stuff. I wear my safety glasses, my hearing protection, gloves, no loose clothing, etc. I remember when ROPS was first coming out and folks didn't like that, and the end of manufacturing tricycle front ends on tractors and folks didn't like that, and the introducton of seat belts in cars and folks didn't like that either. I don't look at it so much as a government intrusion in my life as I do an improvement to make the product safer for me to use. I've seen old circular saws with no guards, electric fans with a wire cage around the blades with openings big enough to stick THREE fingers through, and I'm glad stuff got better.


----------



## Fusion1970

I see both sides. One of the first things I did when I got my tractor was disable the mow in reverse thing. Alot of my yard is tight manuvering, and I actually changed the landscape in a few places to make it easier to mow (moved planting areas and replaced with grass, removed 2 small trees in tight areas, etc.)

But even now, I cant imagine disengaging the deck every time I want to back up. It would surely help sales of belts and PTO switches! 

As a few of you would remember, I broke the parking brake lever. Alot of people would have just removed the seat wire so they could leave it running, rather than worry about the brake. Even though my whole yard is flat, I will not go as far as removing the wire on the seat. About the only reason I would have to get off the tractor is to make a pit stop. I will shut it off, and in fact would never leave it running, unattended, especially while inside the house.

I also never cut the grass while people are present. Just a couple weeks ago, Jane sent the kids outside with popsicles. First thing they did was take off through the yard toward me. I shut the deck off, shut the tractor off, and had a heart to heart with 'em. They now know to stay clear, even when i'm using the push mower.

Oh, and Jody...neat avatar! 

Greg


----------



## guest2

Just something else to keep in mind, people may think that when they modify the machine, only they will be held accountable. This might not be true. The manufacturer and the selling dealer could be involved as well as anyone else who has serviced the equipment which causes injury or death. It seems easy enough and harmless enough to disable a safety switch but when people continue to be injured the gov't will step in like Neil said and then it will be designed so there isn't any easy way around it. Not to mention the possibility of some ambulance chaser lawyer tracking down someone off the internet who told "the poor unfortunate first time tractor owner" that he should disconnect it. 
We all think we are a little smarter and more mechanical than the average joe, but over the years I've come to realize that the guys I meet who have scars and missing parts of their fingers, etc are pretty much like the rest of us except for "that one time"
Just something to keep in mind.


----------



## Neil_nassau

> _Originally posted by sixchows _
> *Just something else to keep in mind, people may think that when they modify the machine, only they will be held accountable. This might not be true. The manufacturer and the selling dealer could be involved as well as anyone else who has serviced the equipment which causes injury or death. It seems easy enough and harmless enough to disable a safety switch but when people continue to be injured the gov't will step in like Neil said and then it will be designed so there isn't any easy way around it. Not to mention the possibility of some ambulance chaser lawyer tracking down someone off the internet who told "the poor unfortunate first time tractor owner" that he should disconnect it.
> We all think we are a little smarter and more mechanical than the average joe, but over the years I've come to realize that the guys I meet who have scars and missing parts of their fingers, etc are pretty much like the rest of us except for "that one time"
> Just something to keep in mind. *


Hear hear Sixchows.........well said ! :cheers: 

btw........any machine comes to our shop will be brought BACK to original factory configuration on safety switch circuits. no ifs,ands or buts.

Oh and Fusion,you did the right thing....when I dredged up the stories on recent mower accidents...........one was a young boy sitting on the porch just WATCHING his Dad mow the grass with his rider......when he was hit and killed by a thrown object. Call it fate or whatever..........I couldn't calculate the odds....................but it happened.

my apologies.....didn't mean to hijack the thread.


----------



## balmoralboy

Good Posts Neil, Sixchows, and Willie,

I've been laughed at many times over safety issues, but you only have seven fingers, and only one grandson Jody. Even if there are fifteen more of them somewhere you'll still miss the one who's gone.

My husqvarna has no backup kill switch, and I wish it did. It's way too easy to back up without looking. I try very hard to be conscious of what I'm doing, but I'm as lazy as the next guy, and it's really easy to pick up bad habits. The devices are there to stop us from doing stupid things, but also to get us into good habits. 

Also, the next time this comes up, I don't want to be the one posting "Don't do it! I killed my grandson doing that!"

We've got a big funeral here in the village on Monday for a family who lost their 28 yr old son last Monday. You see the family and friends and know it changed their life in an instant. Fellow was landing his F-18A at Beaufort, SC when the wheels came off. Literally as well as figuratively.

Makes you stop and thank the big guy for the good luck you've had! Doesn't make me want to take any extra chances.


----------



## johndeere

Im all for saftey and believe in the seat switch and the chute deflector and the brake switch.But the back up switch found on a John Deere I can live with I do and will not bypass it and will not tell someone how to bypass it.However the way my Cub Cadet and all the others are is ridiculous.It is a way to sell electric clutches.The way the Deere is the switch needs to be on the rear hitch to truely be affective however.

Cub Cadet and John Deere could care less if there is an accident.Its not like there wanting there customers to be safe so they can be a repeat customer.Or there dealer told them how nice Joe Blow is and they sure want him safe because he is such a nice guy.The real reason is MONEY and that is it.There afraid they might get Sued.I can understand that but all the it is a major saftey concern because a kid can get killed or what ever.Just how often does this happen?I know one time is to often.But just how many people have come forward and said.The RIO saved little Joey or Susies life because with out it he would have been run over.Or after my Cub Cadet blades disengaged while backing up.Little Ricky was still killed after being ran over.But atleast we were able to show his body at the funeral.

Anyone who lets there kids or pets around a lawn mower or lets a child out side while mowing.Should be casterated to avoid more stupid people in the future.

I can understand your being a dealer you must be careful and go by the book.But you should go out and demonstrate this no backing up mowing proceder.I bet if you did and the customer seen it.They would say sorry but I will buy a Craftsman.Besides if Cub Cadet did not want you to unhook it.They would make it hard to bypass.The day they do they might as well go out of business.Most lawns have atleast one area where you must backup.I have area that are very tight spot around grain bins and buildings bordering a farm field when I get in these area I must back out no way to turn around.No way im going to shut the blades off and back up several times to mow these areas.I can pull a switch on the Deere but not the Cub.I bet the guy who thought Cubs system up has never ran a mower or even did a days work that included sweat and dirt under his nails.Perhaps you would rather I say you should have bought a Craftsman.Or do not buy a Cub because you can not back up with the blades going.Perhaps if you get through to all of us bad guys telling how to bypass this stupid set up.No one will buy a Cub Cadet and you can go out of business right a long with them.Becareful what you wish for it might Bite you on the A$$


----------



## johndeere

While were on the topic.Why dont we have governors on are cars so they will not go past a set speed limit to save lives?Why because very few pay attention to a speed limit.There willing to get killed and get someone killed to be in a hurry.Why do we not have this saftey feauture.Because the lawyers have not figured out how to line there pockets on a car crash where the driver was speeding.Im surprised some Nit Wit has not sued saying the car was so fast I did not realise I was speeding.It should not go faster then the limit.Why dont all these saftey NUTs slow down out there.


----------



## guest2

As far as cars go, most speedometers show a lower top speed than the older cars. During the late 70's early 80's most showed a top speed of 80mph on the dash as opposed to the older muscle cars showing 140-160mph. 
Many newer computer controlled vehicles have rev limiters. Yes you can still speed but when you reach a certain point the engine feels like it's about to cut off. You can be sure that if those in power weren't profiting from the price of gas we would already have something stopping you from going more than 80mph.
It's interesting how the downsized vehicles from 1977 are creeping back up in size and hp as gas continues to climb.


----------



## johndeere

My point was we would save more lives if they were governed at say 65 tops.Then putting a stuipid no reverse mow device on a lawn mower.We would save thousands of lives rather then a few that will be just as dead just not shopped up in pieces.

While were at it how about a device where you car will not move if your talking on a cell phone?Or will not start unless your seat belts is not fastened.Why because that would be an incovinence.


----------



## guest2

Yeah but 65 would be too slow for passing especially on roads where the limit has been raised from 55mph.
As for the seat belt thing there were cars like that back in the 80's I think VW/ Audi. Some cars even have the automatic belts.
Regulations will be put anywhere they feel they are necessary rather than where it will save more lives. Remember 3wheel ATV's banned by consumer product safety commission because everyone was doing jumps on ones not equipped with rear suspension and were collapsing their spines?
My only point in my respsonse about the mow in reverse was that "we" all of us who offer advice need to keep in mind that it is possible for someone to track us down in the event of a tragedy although it seems unlikely. Maybe even hold TF liable for providing the info. Remember some people think tragedy=lotto. Let those who want to endanger themselves figure it out on their own without becoming a party to it that's all. Is is ridiculous to only have it on some and not all tractors of course it is. Could we all pay closer attention, yes but unfortunately accidents happen and if the device was on the tractor in question and was intentionally disabled you can be sure someone somewhere will make an issue out of it. We all like to think we are friends helping friends but when tragedy strikes all bets are off.


----------



## aegt5000

I remember one morning listening to Charles Osgood on 
the radio. He was saying when he was a kid, the expression
adults would use to describe themselves hitting it rich was
“When my ship comes in” Today he said that expression 
has changed to “When my case comes up”

It’s like sixchows said, to some people tragedy = lotto.
Seems like nobody has to take responsibility for themselves
anymore. People no longer simply trip and fall, they only 
fall due to someone’s negligence.

Since my company is a manufacturer, I often read through
product liability decisions. My favorite involved 2 guys who
were using a rotary push mower to cut a privet hedge. They
stood with the hedge between them, each holding one side of
the mower by the wheels and started to cut the top of the hedge. 
Of course the mower twisted out of their hands and cut one guys
hand off at the wrist. The mower manufacturer lost the case and
the guy was awarded $17 million dollars. The decision was 
based on the fact that no where on the box, mower or manual, 
did it state that the mower should ONLY be used for cutting grass
and that it was not unreasonable to assume it could also be used for
cutting other things. 

What I find fascinating about the case is not that there could be 
someone stupid enough to try cutting a hedge with a rotary mower
but the fact that he was able to get his neighbor to hold up the other
half of the mower.


----------



## memmurphy

Seems we are responsible for everybody but ourselves anymore. :dazed:

A dealer told me how to get around the reverse switch. Unless I had a hidden tape recorder (which I did not) proving that would be very difficult. I work in service myself and would fully understand if he refused. I also would understand if the unit was in for service and he reconnected it. If your in business, you can do everything by the book. Yet it is not a matter of if you will be sued but a matter of when. On another forum I pointed a guy in the direction of defeating the switch once myself. Taken to the extreme someone could sue another member when an engine blew up causing severe burns after following their advice on an engine rebuild. The line between living life under a rock scared of doing or saying anything, and being fool hardy and try to help others be damned is getting very thin thanks to the legal system. Medical Doctors and their malpratice insurance rates are a prime example of this.

Mark


----------



## Neil_nassau

> _Originally posted by johndeere _
> *However the way my Cub Cadet and all the others are is ridiculous.It is a way to sell electric clutches.
> 
> Fact:WE as a dealer have replaced one clutch at over 500 hours on a machine used hard by a local commercial operator that prefers a tractor stlye rider. Cub has a 3 year warranty on the clutch made by Ogura, a high quality Japanese co.
> 
> Cub Cadet and John Deere could care less if there is an accident. Joe Blow is and they sure want him safe because he is such a nice guy.The real reason is MONEY and that is it.There afraid they might get Sued.
> If you were in the business of building things people misuse in this way wouldn't you care if you got sued ?
> 
> 
> I can understand your being a dealer you must be careful and go by the book.But you should go out and demonstrate this no backing up mowing proceder.I bet if you did and the customer seen it.They would say sorry but I will buy a Craftsman.
> FACT: I do exactly that...........I don't wait to surprise anyone after the sale,I show each customer how it works...... only had one customer in 5 years walk on me.
> 
> 
> Besides if Cub Cadet did not want you to unhook it.They would make it hard to bypass.
> I thought they were a money hungry,uncaring company that wanted to sell clutches?
> 
> The day they do they might as well go out of business.....I can pull a switch on the Deere but not the Cub.
> The switch Deere (and Toro for that matter) uses moves the descision to the operator ,essentially making an "easy to defeat" system. Cub is a privately owned company (Deere & Toro are public) that has used their system since the mid 80's 9Deere & Toro just added recently) and doesn't want to test the courts with that one.
> 
> Perhaps you would rather I say you should have bought a Craftsman.Or do not buy a Cub because you can not back up with the blades going.Perhaps if you get through to all of us bad guys telling how to bypass this stupid set up.No one will buy a Cub Cadet and you can go out of business right a long with them.Becareful what you wish for it might Bite you on the A$$
> Fact: Cub and our company are having a record year. I never said you or anyone here was a "bad guy"
> *


I have always enjoyed this forum and its discussions but, ......you're getting a little personal towards the end of your post. In the spirit of this forum.......we'll let it go. I might add Cub and mTD have had this feature for almost 20 years now as their response to a serious issue. 
You ask for numbers in your post.........you'll find some here in this article about a kid with a severed leg. Or another here where there is not only a backing accident but one where an operator was injured by a machine with a defeated seat switch. (oops didn't mean to open that can of worms) lol

Point is if the industry doesn't do something about it, they become a target (in fact they already are). We think Cub's solution is a simple effective one that shows responsibility and clear thinking on this issue.There are companies out there pushing the government to require deck guards or rear cowcatcher style guards .........do you want the government putting one of those on your tractor?


----------



## Willie Nunez

In this country we have the freedom of choice. We can be stupid if we want. This freedom extents to Mexico and the Caribbean. I lost count of all the patients I've transported who sufferred serious injury due to personal watercraft and mopeds. So, if you don't get on one of these, your chances of survival will improve. It's the same with mowers. If you never mow where there are slopes, water, drop-offs, children, people, rocks, etc., you minimize the accident rate. That's why I follow these instructions. But, I still look back when I back up, force of habit I guess.
Has anyone read of an accident where a person becomes incapacitated while riding a mower? That's the one I'm afraid of.


----------



## ducati996

I think they covered the safety aspect pretty good with the seat switch...I like Deeres manual overide method which gives you the option to bypass. Cubs is very easy as well but more perminent.
As for safety, just look at a 2 stage blower in action, or a rear PTO implement ( like a PHD or other) and this items are scary dangerous but they are available and you really cant offer safety features on them. Its up to the user to use common sense, as scary as that is. I guess a back up buzzer would be a good awareness tool, instead of the reverse shutoff( that effect the machines performance too much). You have more chances (and all to common) of running over a small child or pet in a SUV or Car than a small ride-on tractor. You dont see the Auto Mfg having reverse disable switches do you?


Duc


----------



## guest2

Well comparing L&G tractors to cars is apples and oranges. There are far less lobbyists in DC for L&G tractors than there are for the automakers. And I wouldn't be suprised if in some back room deal the lobbyists for the automakers sent the regulators to the L&G industry to buy some time for themselves. 
Remember the BS with polluters getting credits for squashing older cars rather than having to clean up their own mess,and then they could even sell their credits back and forth to bypass the regulations.
Another point to keep in mind is that many lower end L&G tractor buyers may be first time owners who aren't really familiar with what they are doing. Read some of the stupid questions people ask on other forums, they really don't have a clue as to what they are doing. You can't possibly correct every potential hazard especially with snowblowers (until someone invents a different safer one) but you can control some of the more simpler things.
This whole thread has turned into "what about something else, that's more dangerous" but the original poster simply asked how to by pass a switch. Speaking for myself, and trying to prevent someone else getting jammed up, I suggested not providing such info, if they find their own way around it let them.
Would we feel better if we turned on our computer's one morning and saw a thread about someone getting killed by someone we advised on how to disable something? Would we enjoy seeing a fellow member post how he's now being sued or held responsible in some legal matter because of it?


----------



## ducati996

Sixchows,

I think you missed the point how the disable devices came into play and into Lawn and garden machines. I think you might be focusing on the physical differences between cars and tractors
but the liability issue is very much related and connected...
Or better yet the responsibility should always rest on the user or owner but turns into a litigious affair and no one takes responsibility for their own actions..

Duc


----------



## guest2

Duc
I must be missing something. I didn't bring cars, suvs, mopeds or watercraft into this. Johndeere brought up the subject of cars being more dangerous, Willie offered watercraft and mopeds and you offered snowblowers. When I've mentioned any of the above it has been to counterpoint the argument. 
Living on Long Island and being so close to NYC you of all peolpe should realize firsthand how these lawsuits get blown out of proportion by lawyers, prosecutors and judges many of whom would never stoop so low as to get theirs dirty on one of these machines and yet they will have no problem convincing a sympatheic jury how unfortunate it was that the poor inexperienced tractor owner was convinced he should disable it.


----------



## ducati996

I think its all related because all these limitations have been brought about by litigation and the fear of being sued...
Watercraft or jetski's are one of the shining examples and around here you are banned from using them in most places (mind you I'm on an Island), or you cant come within 200ft of the shore. I guess maybe its because these things have 200 hp, and can launch the retard who was driving it into a ski tow rope, and decapitates himself right there. Interesting sight to see, but I was not going to let it interfere with my beer and ruin my day  
Or another young kid does almost the same thing but survives long enough to catch the flesh eating bacteria in the hospital and dies from that....yeah saw them both live - oh joy!!
I haven't seen anybody get mulched up yet by a garden tractor, not to say I want to either....people ruin it for everyone else

Duc


----------



## johndeere

I have always enjoyed this forum and its discussions but, ......you're getting a little personal towards the end of your post.

Neil I did not mean for it to sound personal toward the end.I still say the Reverse back up saftey device it stupid.However I will not tell how to defeat it in the future.As someone mentioned I think Sixchow they could come back on the person posting that information is very good advice.Its a sad fact the world is that way now days.But very true in the future I will just say.It is best to figure it out on your own.I do not come to this sight to get people mad at me.Some silly little things like this are better just forgotten and over looked then getting involved.

My best friend and boss was killed a few years ago.He was thrown clear from a pickup truck.It went off the road and went in a creek and he was thrown through the side window.He was not wearing a seat belt and was driving extremly fast and was legally drunk.He was against seat belts and I have been for them for many years.I do not drink and would turn anyone I see driving under the influence in.But that day I watched him drink and then leave in that truck.

I will live with that guilt for the rest of my life.Every time I see the commercial friends do not let friends drive drunk im reminded.I was not about to say anything at the time.Because I did not want to loose the job.But if I had it to do over I would have.

I sure would not want some accident from a lawn mower.Hanging over my head.So I will not give that advise in the future.However I will not hook it back up either.


----------



## Neil_nassau

No problem jD.......

I might also add that we have gotten a machines in for "warranty " work where the owner had butchered the wiring harness trying to bypass either seat or backup switches. They get the most innocent look on their face and try to say its "always been that way" :furious: 

Its pretty much always been with personal injury cases that many ,many cases have not been a "defective' product, but the fault of the individual. Settlements are reached,not on a case's merits, but to just make the case go away because it "costs less".



> _originally posted by aegt5000 _
> It’s like sixchows said, to some people tragedy = lotto.Seems like nobody has to take responsibility for themselves
> anymore. People no longer simply trip and fall, they only
> fall due to someone’s negligence.


There's just too many lawyers on the back of the phonebook.eace:


----------



## balmoralboy

> _Originally posted by Neil_nassau _
> *No problem jD.......
> 
> I might also add that we have gotten a machines in for "warranty " work where the owner had butchered the wiring harness trying to bypass either seat or backup switches. They get the most innocent look on their face and try to say its "always been that way" :furious:
> 
> Its pretty much always been with personal injury cases that many ,many cases have not been a "defective' product, but the fault of the individual. Settlements are reached,not on a case's merits, but to just make the case go away because it "costs less".
> 
> 
> 
> There's just too many lawyers on the back of the phonebook.eace: *


The innocent look is what gets me. We have Oktoberfest here in September and we regularly turn away about 500 people looking for rooms once we're booked. By the last week nobody even calls us, so if we get a cancellation we lose out. so, we have a cancellation fee on those two days a year.

Last year we had 5 people call the first morning of Oktoberfest having had to go into the hospital for operations and wanting to be able to cancel without paying the cancellation fee. Out of 18 rooms!!! Must have had a rough party the weekend before and got into some nasty beer!!!

People seem to have learned that in a culture where service is everything and the customer is always right, they can lie through their teeth to a business and get away with it. So, instead of thinking if they want to come and making a decision, they book a room and figure they can get away with inconveniencing 500 other people, not to mention the operator. And they cut off the safety switch, fully prepared to lie to you, and to lie in court if they are sued because of an accident......... my guess is 30% of the population will lie if money is involved, or if their convenience is at stake.


----------



## slipshod

*Sightseeing Magnet*

I do tons of residential work with my equipment, and nothing draws kids quicker then a machine operarating. I have learned to have a ground man with me whenever I work in a neighborhood full of kids. He is as much traffic cop as he is laborer. Another thing I am constantly aware of is that any machine has 8 corners on it, so you have to be aware of more then what's on the ground. If you just touch vinyl siding with a machine it is ruined. I am good at replacing pieces of it, don't ask how I got good at it.
When I pull up to a job site a lot of thought goes into where I park the truck if I have to load broken concrete or dirt. Sometimes I have to cross the street to load or work in very tight spaces, having an extra set of eyes is a godsent. The more danger in a piece of equipment the more people want to watch it work. When I get gawkers I shut down and educate them. The homeowners are the worst, they hire you for your knowledge then want to tell you how to do it. Killing or seriously injuring someone with one on my machines would probably make me quit doing this kind of work.
By the way I run with every safety devise the manufacturer put on my machines operational.


----------



## cohiba_33

Wow! I didn't know this thread would go on so long! I must say, I do see both sides of the issue but I am still glad I did what I did. I have no kids, (none in the neighborhood either) but I still look behind me when backing up. I guess it's something called common sense.
Not being able to mow in reverse IS a good thing to put on these machines right out of the factory, because when people walk into the dealer they don't have IDIOT written on their forhead - some people can even fake it even after they open their mouth! So, you really wouldn't know what kind of customer you have. 

Some of us just think this safety device is stupid because we have the common sense to look behind us, that's all. Even with the deck off I think we all look back when going in reverse. 
I think we all agree that this safety device is a good thing for the people that need it. 

For the people that think I'm the idiot for bypassing the safety device, I ask this: Why even have reverse at all? Even without the deck on the tractor, you can really hurt someone if you ran over them! Don't even have reverse at all! Or maybe, how about those old cow scoops on those old steam engines. That would be silly wouldn't it? Maybe it's a vast "leftwing" conspiracy! Just who are these people that don't look behind them when backing up!!!
Just joking here but ...

Everyone has their opinion, so here's mine: I believe CC did the right thing, and I believe I did the right thing.

Now everyone... put down your weapons (keyboards) and go enjoy Independence Day. Enjoy all the freedoms that we have, and remember the people of the armed forces who protect us everyday. Make sure your lawn is in tip top shape for your cookout this afternoon. Don't burn the food and don't forget to display Old Glory!


----------



## guest2

Cohiba_33
Please don't think that we think you're an idiot, I know I don't. I don't have the mow in reverse cutoff on any of my machines. MY Bolens 1050's are from the late 1960's and don't have any safety devices, not even deflector shields on the mower. My craftsman Gt has the seat , brake/clutch and pto interlocks but not the mow in reverse. I know I wouldn't like it either and would probably disconnect it also. I'm just not convinced "we" should so freely tell people how to do it.


----------



## johndeere

Good point Sixchow I unhooked the mow in reverse problem my CC had but would never unhook a seat switch I believe in that and the deflector in most conditions.I have been guilty of telling others how to defeat the RIO and in the future will not be doing that.The way I see it from now on is if they want it unhooked they can just figure it out like I did.If they can not figure out such a simple fix then they lack the commonsence needed to safley mow with out it in the first place.


----------



## Ingersoll444

> _Originally posted by sixchows _
> *Cohiba_33
> I know I wouldn't like it either and would probably disconnect it also. I'm just not convinced "we" should so freely tell people how to do it. *


I'm with you on this one. Just opening up a can of worms. 


The funny thing? I could be wrong, but it seems most of the entry level tractors do NOT have this feature.  I would think it would be better to have it on a tractor that is most likly to be a first tractor, or owned my a first time homeowner. Seem to come on the higher up tractors, that will brobably be bought by a more experanced user. Hey I could be wrong, but it seems that way.


----------



## Neil_nassau

Ingersoll............all mtd riding products have it in some way and they can get pretty low end ,lol. 
In fact thats where it a real pain. The manual engagement models shut down the engine , it teaches you real fast to disengage the blades first. 

Great thing I learned here was most everyone looks before backing up. Really important ! ,because the engine noise can prevent the operator from hearing anyone behind him or I know some folks wear ear protection or a radio on their heads.

Hope everyone is enjoying the day off. :cheers:


----------



## Ingersoll444

I have to say, I learned the "look before backing" trick the hard way. Luckly noone was hurt, but could have been.

It was a short time after I got my land, and I was clearing it with my Mom's JD112. Well, I was mowing some weeds in the woods, pulling into the brush, backing out, etc, then for some reason my wife came up behind me. BUMP!! Luckly I was going slow, and stopped right away, and she realy should have known better then to comeup behind me, becouse she saw me going back and forth, but thats not the point. She WAS behind me, and I DID hit her. Why, or how does not matter. Well, I got off lucky. She was fine[OK a small black and blue on her leg] AND I paid very little for a very expencive lesson. 

So do I like the backup shut off's? No not at all. In my case, I would have STILL hit her with the tractor. Do I always look back? You bet!!. Do I mow with kids around? NO F"ING WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------

