# Drive Shaft and/or Pump?



## 32Magnum (Jul 30, 2010)

Good day
Been gone for some time due to health issues and just not doing much is all.
Oh well lent my 2305 out while I went to a funeral in another part of the country and returned to find it in just horrible shape in front of my barn. Well I've changed the fan twice already so I know the routine there. Here's my problem, the D-S is bent, yes bent how I don't know but they did it. It's tight so bearings should be good but that's irrelevant. I'm getting a knocking sound from the area of the fan first off and the forward pedal is hard as h*ll to push and there is NO POWER, could barely make it up the hill with the mower on, not even cutting. RPM's are good just no power like moving in slow motion in forward, reverse seems to be OK!
Any ideas?

One other thing is it overheated also and levels are fine and radiator clean. Never ever had this problem before.


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

Howdy 32 magnum, welcome back!

I found the following post regarding your hydrostat problem, written by BISHAM on MTF:
_____________________________________________________________

"For anyone in the future that has this problem here is some helpful info (this will also work on the 2210 as well as the 2305).

If forward movement is slow and lacks power, but reverse is ok, it is probably the forward pressure relief valve is stuck or bad.

Put the tractor in 4wd, full throttle, full reverse speed, then jam the forward pedal all the way down. You will hear the valve squeal and this may fix your problem.

In my case, the valve was actually bad. I could see the end was deformed a little. The old $230 valve (no longer available) has about a 3/16" hole in the end to let the fluid out when the valve activates. The new $430 valve has about a 1/4" hole. I assume this lets more flow out of the valve when it activates. The new valve fixed my 2305.

The valve is a pain to change. Remove the seat, roll bar, body, then find a shallow 27mm socket to fit the valve.

Tractor has 389 hours total time. I installed Amsoil Synthetic Hydraulic oil, synthetic engine oil, synthetic gear oil and their antifreeze. Cost about $160 for the fluids but I think they will be worth the investment. Changed all the filters with the John Deere filter kit. 

I'm ready to move more dirt! "


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## 32Magnum (Jul 30, 2010)

sixbales said:


> Howdy 32 magnum, welcome back!
> 
> I found the following post regarding your hydrostat problem, written by BISHAM on MTF:
> _____________________________________________________________
> ...


Wow that sounds like my problem! Since I posted I did look at the fluid and it's fried, smells and looks more like bad motor oil than hydro fluid. The fan is gone and he used it for 40-50 hours on the hottest days of the yr here. I found sticks and twigs an inch round that had to be cut out with a sawzall from the bottom of the tractor to as high as under the seat. NEVER AGAIN will I loan out any tool!!!
I'm going to try the solution above. After the parts all come in I'm going to change the fluid, filter and screen. Will just run a gallon thru it with all removed.
Thanks!!


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## 32Magnum (Jul 30, 2010)

OK all replaced.
Still the same outcome, no power in forward with a very hard pedal.
So I have read on and on and it's either the forward valve or some talk of the forward relief valve.
There is a HUGE price difference is there a way to take the valve apart and see if it's one or the other?

OK am I not finding the proper parts here? The relief valve is LVA803403/$508.00 and the pump JDLVA802584/$738.00. WOW!!!
Can this PRV be taken apart and cleaned or inspected?


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## HarveyW (Sep 15, 2014)

WOW!! NOTHING beats a John Deere price. 

Did you try this: "Put the tractor in 4wd, full throttle, full reverse speed, then jam the forward pedal all the way down. You will hear the valve squeal and this may fix your problem."

Failing that, if there's a way you can see to take it apart, I'd go for it.


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## 32Magnum (Jul 30, 2010)

HarveyW said:


> WOW!! NOTHING beats a John Deere price.
> 
> Did you try this: "Put the tractor in 4wd, full throttle, full reverse speed, then jam the forward pedal all the way down. You will hear the valve squeal and this may fix your problem."
> 
> Failing that, if there's a way you can see to take it apart, I'd go for it.


Did this early on and no squeal or anything different. Going forward to reverse it spins tires though.


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## 32Magnum (Jul 30, 2010)

OK changed the U-joints since we're at 914 hrs and they didn't need it but I had it apart so. DS back to good, new fan. The hard peddle is the torsional damper that's a little bent so the hard pedal is figured out. 
The hydro fluid was trashed so replaced it along with the filter and cleaned the screen and magnets. The hydro fluid was just changed last yr. at about ?850? hrs. Ran the fuel till nearly empty and blew out all the fuel line I could get to all spotless. All filter replaced. 
Tried to cut the grass yesterday and it was like getting a root canal!!!! Bogged down endlessly with no power, had to slow to a crawl endlessly. I would figure it to be at about 60-70%. Been cutting the same 3 acres of grass here for 10.5 years and know when and where it would bog if it ever did which was rarely if ever. 
Has anyone here ever took the forward valve apart to see what could be bad, these things are over $500.00 and I don't wish to start just throwing money at it? I also know a trip to the JD dealership would start a about a thousand and the closest one being in SC an hour away.
Frustrated!!!!!


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Looking at the sludge in your photos, it would appear that the little tractor was operated at low throttle settings and likely scrubbed the slipper shoes in the hydrostatic to the point that it is bypassing fluid.

When that happens it allows fluid under pressure on both sides of the slippers in the transmission and then bogs the tractor down as if it were pulling a heavy load, then it gets hotter than a firecracker and generally will illuminate the overtemp light.

The key to long hydrostatic life is always operate the tractor at full throttle and use the foot controls to manage speed.

I suspect you will need to rebuild the hydostatic transmission.


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## 32Magnum (Jul 30, 2010)

RC Wells said:


> Looking at the sludge in your photos, it would appear that the little tractor was operated at low throttle settings and likely scrubbed the slipper shoes in the hydrostatic to the point that it is bypassing fluid.
> 
> When that happens it allows fluid under pressure on both sides of the slippers in the transmission and then bogs the tractor down as if it were pulling a heavy load, then it gets hotter than a firecracker and generally will illuminate the overtemp light.
> 
> ...


How would one know if it's the transmission or forward relief valve? It seems only forward is an issue everything else works as it did. Oh this sucks by the way.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

32Magnum said:


> How would one know if it's the transmission or forward relief valve? It seems only forward is an issue everything else works as it did. Oh this sucks by the way.


when you say the mower bogs down, is this the engine bogging down under load or the transmission/drive ?.

if the engine is bogging down, check the operation of the fuel cutoff solenoid on the injection pump or wherever this may be if you have diesel power or if gas, the solenoid under the carby bowl.

have you removed the midmount mower so you could have a good look at the forward lever linkages under ?, the damage that your machine has copped seems like a small log may have been jammed in that area.

I might be running up a hill backwards with my write, at least if you reply with either drive or engine is the problem, I will know, just seems odd that you have plenty of power in reverse and little in forward, that tells me that the hydraulic drive system is working.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Generally if it is a relief valve sticking you will hear noise of the oil passing through the valve body, and there would be little to no tendency for the transmission to get hot or for the engine to bog as the oil is being circulated.

Typically what I would expect to experience is the tractor starting out mowing just fine, then as the transmission warms, the shoes/slippers begin to pass the thinner oil and infiltrate the reverse side of the slippers, and with the reverse not engaged the oil has no where to really go, so the engine bogs and the tractor drops into a creep mode as the transmission fights itself.

The design of the slippers that are the drive elements of a hydrostatic transmission is such that one side can get rounded off, so oil passes without locking them to the chamber. The other side usually remains good so the reverse process works pretty much as designed when backing up. 

I am speculating based on your description of the conditions and the photos of the material you found. That material is almost always remains of the slippers unless a pump disintegrates. If a pump disintegrates there will be diminished ability to move in either forward or reverse.


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## TraderMark (Nov 15, 2011)

Just my thoughts here ....

First I'd like to hear the answer to FredM's question. Is it the engine or transmission that's bogging down?

If it's the transmission bogging down, I don't think you have a problem with the hydrostat pump/motor. You said reverse works fine, plenty of power and no stalling. The same pump with the same pistons supplies oil to the same motor in forward or reverse. So if you have good power in reverse there's probably nothing wrong with the pump or motor. It sounds to me like you have a problem with the forward oil circuit and most probably a relief valve in that circuit. Check with a Deere dealer or a Deere mechanic. There surely has to be a way to check the pressures in both the reverse and forward circuits.  Maybe they can tell you were to check the pressures so you can know for certain what's going on in forward and reverse.

I'm going to have to beg to differ about the relief sticking open and not causing heat. The passage in the relief valve that allows oil to pass through is far too small to let full pump flow pass through unrestricted. If the forward relief valve is opening prematurely at a lower pressure than it should it will create heat at full pump flow. Checking for excessive heat in the area around a relief valve at full pump flow has long been one of the tools used to diagnose hydraulic problems.

Once you get this problem figured out, *change that hydrostat oil*. It doesn't matter if it was just changed last week. All the sludge and metal shavings in your pictures warrant an oil and filter change.

HTH,
Mark


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## 32Magnum (Jul 30, 2010)

RC Wells said:


> Generally if it is a relief valve sticking you will hear noise of the oil passing through the valve body, and there would be little to no tendency for the transmission to get hot or for the engine to bog as the oil is being circulated.
> *
> It whined the first 15 minutes or so after I changed the fluid, I don't recall if it whined before the problem. It always was fin so I didn't notice!
> *
> ...


*I tried out the bucket and it lifted an entire bucket of dirt with no problem and even backed up the driveway no problem. Forward would be like I was dragging a house behind be and the bog down.*

Thanks I really am avoiding taking it to JD!! The ONLY DEALER is 55 miles away and are Turds.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Looking at your latest pictures, there appears to be quite a bit of metal particulate on the screen in picture #2. Not good. 

Also, is that the relief valve with dented case in picture #5?? If so, can you take this to your local hydraulics shop to see if they can do anything with it?


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## 32Magnum (Jul 30, 2010)

BigT said:


> Looking at your latest pictures, there appears to be quite a bit of metal particulate on the screen in picture #2. Not good.
> 
> Also, is that the relief valve with dented case in picture #5?? If so, can you take this to your local hydraulics shop to see if they can do anything with it?


No that's the hydro fluid filter.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

The way I read the post is the tractor is bogging, that would be the engine lugging and pulling hard while the tractor is not making normal progress forward, but works fine in reverse.

If the transmission is bogging due to an open relief valve, the forward travel will be impeded while the engine will be running at full throttle without acting as if there is a significant loading. That will be because oil is flowing unimpeded through the drive units as well as the relief valve. Overheating will be minimal if at all.

Where I have seen this issue before is with folks that routinely drive the tractor at idle with the forward pedal fully down. Not enough oil flow occurs to keep the slippers fully engaged, and the drive side of the transmission gets damaged from the slippers skipping and knocking off material.


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## 32Magnum (Jul 30, 2010)

RC Wells said:


> The way I read the post is the tractor is bogging, that would be the engine lugging and pulling hard while the tractor is not making normal progress forward, but works fine in reverse.
> 
> *Exactly the case!*
> 
> ...


Have you ever taking a relief valve apart (out) and is it possible to see what is wrong with one? They run over $600.00 and is a big nut for me especially if it's not the problem, or even changing the forward with the reverse? I see different part number though.


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## 32Magnum (Jul 30, 2010)

Another question about JD pricing? I've been looking for part# LVA801209 and understand it's been replaced by LVA 803403. But I can still find the original on line in several places for as little as $250.00. Yet the new number over $600.00. 
What's the difference and which do I have in a 2006 2305?


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## 32Magnum (Jul 30, 2010)

Why is this worth $$$$$$$$$$$$$ 608.00 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. This is the reverse valve couldn't get the Forward valve out, need a 1 1/16" short socket.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

John Deere green is always expensive, but their products generally last a long time too.

Once you get the forward relief valve where you can inspect it, use a very bright light and examine the seat where the spring loaded valve piston rests to shut off the flow. Often it is as simple as a broken O-ring at the base of the housing, heat cracks them.

If the seat is galled or corroded do not panic, they can be refurbished with a bit of diamond dust and oil by making a mixture and using the piston as a tool to lap the seats on both it and the valve. Do not do much other than get it mirror polished. Diamond dust is a product sold to machinists and available from just about every machine tool vendor rather inexpensively. Light oil like turbine oil or the oil used to service electric motor bearings will suffice.

When done use something along the line of brake cleaner or starting fluid to wash all the grit and oil from the valve before reassembling.

If the spring is broken, take the one from the reverse valve to a hydraulic repair shop and find a will-fit spring of the same compression rate to fit the forward valve. About a $20 fix, and a whole lot less than a new valve.


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## JDonly (Apr 28, 2012)

Just mow in reverse?


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## 32Magnum (Jul 30, 2010)

OK THINK I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The reverse valve I took out with my hand that easy and clean, the Forward one I had to use the sock to the end, one of the O-rings is not normal round anymore. Took it apart cleaned it out and reversed them. I now have NORMAL or near to normal as I remember ground speed!!! Went around my yard a few times and up the biggest (15-18*)hill while cutting with wet grass it barely bogged at all, I was at maybe 90%.
So I figure that was my problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now to order part and get another filter and more fluid. I will be calling the JD dealer who sold me the stuff with the crud and ask for new.
__________________


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## TraderMark (Nov 15, 2011)

Glad to hear you got it going again 32Magnum!
I was pretty sure it had to be something in a relief valve or in the forward circuit.
Granted I've never worked on this particular JD model but I've worked a number of other
larger brands of hydrostats. 99% of the time if there's a problem in only one direction it's in a valve of some sort, i.e relief valve, shuttle valve, etc.

Mark


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## 32Magnum (Jul 30, 2010)

OK All back together and back to normal. The on-line JD Parts store was a scam bait and switch. Two days after putting in the order and paying I received an E-Mail saying the part was no longer available and replaced with the new part for 3x's as much of course. I got a refund and went to the JD store here in SC and he cut me a good deal I guess $489.50 instead of $560.00.
I changed the fluid and filter and cleaned the screen again and was surprised it was still dirty, I guess that's from what I couldn't get out from draining it because it says 3.4 gallons but only took 3 gallons and about a pint.
As far as the part there is a physical difference as you can see but the only difference I could see was the O-Ring was beefy on the new one and the old one it was flat and used up?
Just a few more pictures.


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