# jd 2210 PTO solenoid failure



## newbie2

My PTO won't engage on my JD2210. I've measured voltages to the solenoid and they are there so there's no problems with safety interlocks etc. The solenoid shows about 5 ohms so its not a dead short and I can hear a slight click when I turn it on.

I've got the service manual but it doesn't say much about removing it. From the back I can see a hex nut on a shaft that looks like if I take that nut loose then the solenoid may come out.

Anyone else have experience with this? Suggestions?






















sorry about the 2nd one getting in twice, can't figure out how to delete 1 of them. The rear view shows the cable coming out of the top of the solenoid.

When it was working when it engaged there was a big solid sounding clunk as it engaged. Now I hear nothing with the motor running. There is a slight tick when the motor is off.


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## sixbales

Howdy newbie2, welcome to the tractor forum.

At 5 ohms coil resistance, it is pulling 2.4 amps. I don't know what is right. I would take your ohmmeter to a JD dealership and ask if you could measure the resistance of a new one. You could also pull the solenoid and check that it is stroking fully.


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## newbie2

tx sixbales. That ohm measurement was quick and dirty but at least it wasn't shorted. I think I need to remove it and figure out why its not activating/stroking. Its not obvious to me how to remove it is the problem I have right now. I'm guessing just loosen that hex nut on the end. Here's a clip of the diagram of what it looks like. Its all nicely painted over so its not real clear where it comes apart from the overall hydraulic mechanism.


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## sixbales

Your tractor has two independent PTO's (hydraulic actuated clutch packs), one for the middle and one for the rear. Is the middle PTO working? You could try swapping solenoids.

From your picture, it appears to me that your coil is 'sandwiched' in position and will not turn. If so, pull the end nut and slide the coil out. Then unscrew the valve part.


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## newbie2

_From your picture, it appears to me that your coil is 'sandwiched' in position and will not turn. If so, pull the end nut and slide the coil out. Then unscrew the valve part. 
_
Thanks for that advice. I was thinking that's how its held in place since I could see no other bolts or fasteners. Hopefully, with the engine off there is no pressure behind it that would cause it to hop out and shoot oil everywhere. I think once I get it out the mystery will be solved. I'm guessing its sticking for some reason.

_Your tractor has two independent PTO's (hydraulic actuated clutch packs), one for the middle and one for the rear. Is the middle PTO working? You could try swapping solenoids_

This comment, I'm not so sure about. From what I can tell this is the only solenoid for hydraulics. The other hydraulics look to be actuated via a lever. I'll go back and study the electrical and hydraulic diagrams to see if there is another solenoid.


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## newbie2

I think that the PTO is only solenoid see diagram.


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## newbie2

well, I took off that hex nut from the outside. That allowed the coil to come free but the shaft of the solenoid stayed firmly in place. So I don't know if the solenoid shaft is stuck in there or if if there is yet another nut holding it in place.


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## sixbales

The solenoid has to move that shaft for the valve to function. When I have problems like this I usually go to the dealership to learn how a new one works.


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## newbie2

The coil came off fairly easily. I checked it on the bench and its 9 ohm so a bit more that 1A. I hooked up a battery and it pulls a screwdriver thru it so I think the coil is ok. The solenoid shaft stayed behind in the hydraulic motor. The shaft seems to be stuck in there, I could not pull or push it. So it makes me think that there is some debris in there that is blocking the travel. It could be that when the pressure is up that the shaft moves more easily.


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## Fedup

The moving parts won't be visible by merely removing the coil. Find a deep socket that fits the hex size of the now exposed base. Unscrew the entire valve cartridge for inspection. The moving parts are inside. You may be able to dis assemble the valve depending how it's made and what tools you have. You should at least be able to slip the coil back on and bench test the unit with 12 volts. If the valve is functioning correctly you may see, hear, or feel something going on inside when voltage is applied/removed from the coil.


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## newbie2

Thanks for your suggestion. I was headed that direction. I decided that I better get the tractor to a location where I'll have space to work on it or be able to get it on a trailer. I suspect that once I remove that solenoid I won't be able to start the tractor since pressurized hydraulic fluid will probably come out of that hole for the solenoid.


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## 2jdeeres

I think on my 2210 there is a lever to direct the flow to either the middle or rear pto spot, could there be a problem with the alignment??


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## newbie2

2jdeeres said:


> I think on my 2210 there is a lever to direct the flow to either the middle or rear pto spot, could there be a problem with the alignment??


Yes, you are correct. It is the same, a lever next to the seat. I already tried moving it front to back and middle but it made no difference. I did this to make sure the PTO wasn't somehow locked up. I could rotate the PTO shafts if that lever was not engaged.

I have removed the coil and there is now a steel shaft sticking out. However, that shaft does not move even if I pull or push on it. It could be that the the shaft couples the magnetic field into the valve and a small valve inside moves.

Do you know if when you pull that yellow button out does that shaft hop out? I know when it works properly there is a very definite clunk as the solenoid lets in the hydraulic fluid, otherwise it bypasses it. But I don't know how much that steel shaft moves if at all. Never had a reason to look at it.

Here are some photos taken from the back with the coil removed from the shaft. You can see the threads that held the coil onto the shaft.


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## newbie2

OK, I've determine the problem.
I got the whole solenoid out of the tractor, hydraulic oil started dripping out.
That steel rod I asked about does not move but it conducts a magnetic field into the center of the shaft that actuates a shuttle valve.










Next looking at the end view of the thing.








where the red arrow points is the end of the movable piston inside that cylinder. At first I thought it was a machined cavity but I put a small socket in there and tapped it with a hammer and it let go after about 3 taps. So that cylinder was stuck.

Now it easily moves by pushing with a pen.








Now it moves easily by pressing with a pen.
So now I think I'll clean with brake cleaner, thoroughly lube up with light oil and reinstall. Only bad news is that during disaassembly the nut holding on the coil fell off down into the frame of the tractor rear end. So I may have to buy a 14mm 1mm pitch thin nut. I wonder if JD sells just that nut.

It could be that I could have solved this problem if I'd revved up the engine to get higher pressure before pulling out that pto engage knob. For now at least it looks like I won't have to buy some expensive parts.
patience...patience...


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## Fedup

Engine speed would not have solved your problem. Pressure and flow to the valve would hardly be affected as pump flow has already been through a proportional valve and pressure regulating valve before reaching this point. What you did in removing the cartridge and fooling with the stuck plunger is what got it going again. This is a common design for solenoid valves and similar to those used in hundreds of tractors for hydraulic clutch pack engagement as well as other functions. Some more sophisticated than others on the electronics end, with computer controlled modulation, etc, but very much the same in design What you found here is more common than you think, and you did not invent the procedure. At least you now have the experience and you know exactly where to look should it happen again.


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## newbie2

yep, nothing new in the world on this. Since posting last I bench tested that solenoid with a 12v battery and I was quite surprised to here a satisfying clunk as it pulled in that valve. I didn't think the coil was that strong by itself. I'd like to do something to make it less likely to happen again, smooth some burr off or something but its not obvious how to do that w/o risking ruining it.

The reason I thought higher rpm and higher pressure might help is that on my JDX300 lawn mower (tractor) you have to run the rpm pretty high before the electric mower deck engages, but I just realized that its not a hydraulic deck so NEVER MIND.

Now to find a 14mm 1mm jam nut. Maybe dealer has one for $10.


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## newbie2

Well, I got lucky. I found that jamb nut, good thing because JD does not sell them and it is not a standard nut.

I know I just rediscovered the wheel in this adventure but I'm going to post some pix and comments in case anyone else needs to remove and replace that solenoid.

When taking apart and reassembling first make some shields like the following:








then stuff them around the solenoid so it looks like this:

























Otherwise when you remove and install that small nut and washers you may drop them down in between those brackets and you may never find them again. then you will find yourself buying a $150 solenoid just to get that nut.

Anyway, it all turned out well and I learned a lot.

Don


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## Mark Murphy

Newbie2, I want to thank you so much for the descriptions you shared, and especially the photos you took time to post.
I had the same "stuck solenoid" problem with my Deere 2305, and this thread got me right on track to be able to fix it.
thank you !!!


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## Pedrodasdas

Same here Newbie2, spent the whole afternoon trying to solve a non-desangeging PTO on my 2305. Nowhere else on the web someone report that the inside of that dammed valve should move and that we should hear or feel a Klunk when turning the switch ON. Just can't wait to dissamsembled that valve again tomorrow. I will let you know !


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## Pedrodasdas

Ok, put the valve out again. It is moving inside but say 1/8 of an inch in and another 1/8 inch out. Normal or not ?


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## Kevin Shomper

This was a great thread. I didn't use my PTO last year, because other things crowded the schedule and I didn't work my garden. I don't use the tractor much for mowing, since I got the large zero turn. I jumped on this weekend; hoping to get the garden turned, and the PTO didn't work. This thread provided all I needed to get the solenoid unstuck and the garden looks great.


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## Lou Cougar

My3025E had a similar problem. The pto solenoid was all 1 piece (coil and plunger). I could not see what was supposed to move. I just kept squirting mineral spirits in the holes and hitting it with compressed air and shaking it. It gradually loosened up. The hex wrench that fits the hold down socket head screws was 3mm. It was hard to determine if it was 3mm or 1/8 because of the paint. I gently used a brass punch to whack the sides of the socket head cap screw to break the paint loose. They came right out after that.


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