# Should I avoid a MF because they have a DPF?



## broncobilly_69

I'm in the market for a new tractor and really like the Massey Ferguson 2850, except they use a DPF, And I'm worried about having issues with it. I often just fire up the tractor for a few minutes to load a pick-up with manure, then park it. Those of you that have a DPF and don't use your tractor for extended periods usually, have you had problems?


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## Groo

Not many modern options that won't have DPF. I'd personally avoid or heavily research a MF/AGCO because of Chinese parts content.
short usage like you are describing will build up soot in the DPF, but as long as there aren't too many of those before you use it enough to bring it up to temperature, it will burn off then. If the soot builds up too much, it will go into a regen cycle, and waste some fuel. I haven't run into it yet (or at least noticed it) with the Yanmar yt359 Dad picked up, and honestly; that has me thinking the regens don't happen as much as the horror stories suggest. It gets used often like you are suggesting; move a few rocks, or unload/load something out of/into a truck. I have yet to notice a regen. Now that is a different engine. I don't know if Yanmar has it down better than Iseki, but there are several more manufactures running Yanmar engines than Iseki engines, so maybe?
I have run into regen cycles on the heavy truck I mess with, and they are a pain (my equipment will cut out at 1000rpm, and the regens run at 1100rpm). I think I run into them when a sensor is messed up though, so hard to tell.


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## broncobilly_69

Thanks, Groo! The Mahindra I looked at didn't have the DPF, so I was hoping there might be more out there. I see that Kubota has a DPF too. I do drag my arena 1-2 times per week and that is usually about 20+ minutes with a decent load on the motor.
I will have to look into the Chinese parts on the Massey. I guess just because it is made in Japan, doesn't mean it's not mostly made China


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## BinVa

Unfortunately the future is now for emissions and engine control. Tractors like most all engined vehicles are becoming increasingly restricted. The systems are getting better but still have a way to go. This is why older equipment has remained so popular. Since the beginning of ECM’s the owner has lost control of engine management. From what I see they have mostly worked the bugs out of early HP fueling issues and now it’s cooling issues. There’s a major Asian parts/electronics influence in most tractor companies today. Hopefully name brands like MF will be around for a while longer and stand behind their new and support the used tractor market. B.


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## Groo

Honestly, I like that Mahindra figured out how to make their engine clean enough to skip DOF systems, but I hear other things about Mahindra I dont like, so not sure where i would stand with them.


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## broncobilly_69

The Mahindra I looked at seemed awful cramped for my legs in the operating platform, and I'm not a guy, 5'10" 165 lbs. The hand throttle was very stiff and creaked when operated, could have just needed lube. The loader control seemed very touchy/jerky. I watched a video of someone else looking at one and they had trouble operating it smoothly too. 
Poor overall quality seems to be the impression I get from people about Mahindra. Is that what you have heard as well Groo?


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## Groo

poor overall quality is what I've heard as well.


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## TX MX5200

Don’t know about Mahindra, but my Kubota has the regen and haven’t had an issue. I’ve run mine for about 40 hours and have had 1 regen. I just revved it up to 1800ish rpm and kept working. 

mine is turbo so I warm it up before and idle down before shutting down. 

If you crank and go then shut down in few minutes you will have issues with any modern diesel, including trucks, tractors or boats


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## Ben DoinIt

TX MX5200 said:


> Don’t know about Mahindra, but my Kubota has the regen and haven’t had an issue. I’ve run mine for about 40 hours and have had 1 regen. I just revved it up to 1800ish rpm and kept working.
> 
> mine is turbo so I warm it up before and idle down before shutting down.
> 
> If you crank and go then shut down in few minutes you will have issues with any modern diesel, including trucks, tractors or boats


Absolutely correct!


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## Groo

TX MX5200 said:


> Don’t know about Mahindra, but my Kubota has the regen and haven’t had an issue. I’ve run mine for about 40 hours and have had 1 regen. I just revved it up to 1800ish rpm and kept working.
> 
> mine is turbo so I warm it up before and idle down before shutting down.
> 
> If you crank and go then shut down in few minutes you will have issues with any modern diesel, including trucks, tractors or boats


why would a turbo need more warm-up than a NA? I've never heard that before. I understand that idle down is to let the turbo spin down fully before cutting the oil flow, but what the extended warm-up?

ps. I tend to favor a non-turbo, especially under 100 hp, because the weight savings of a smaller engine is sort of counter-productive in a small tractor. At altitude, I would of course prefer a turbo, but that isn't most users.


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## Cvans

Turbo pre-heat? There's hot exhaust running through one side of it, how long can it take to warm up? On some equipment they want you to set the throttle 1/2 open before starting. That isn't going to give the turbo much time to heat up. Is this procedure suggested by Kubota or something your comfortable doing. Just curious. Seems like a good point for discussion.


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## TX MX5200

The turbo doesn’t need to run to heat up. I start mine and let idle for about a minute to enable the oil to warmup and get flowing to lube up the internals before I throttle up. 

Diesels will not warm up until engine is put under some load so I throttle up after that initial start. I don’t start it at half throttle for the above reason. 

The turbo does need to spool down and cool off after it’s been running under load for a while. That’s why I back off throttle and gradually reduce it to idle then shut it down. 

As for selecting a turbo diesel...that wasn’t something I set out to find, but the used tractor I found the deal on had it. Turbo didn’t scare me off as I’ve had turbo diesels before and with exception of Ford Motor Company raping us with their crap diesels in trucks for year’s, I’ve had no issues.


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## TX MX5200

R


TX MX5200 said:


> The turbo doesn’t need to run to heat up. I start mine and let idle for about a minute to enable the oil to warmup and get flowing to lube up the internals before I throttle up.
> 
> Diesels will not warm up until engine is put under some load so I throttle up after that initial start. I don’t start it at half throttle for the above reason.
> 
> The turbo does need to spool down and cool off after it’s been running under load for a while. That’s why I back off throttle and gradually reduce it to idle then shut it down.
> 
> As for selecting a turbo diesel...that wasn’t something I set out to find, but the used tractor I found the deal on had it. Turbo didn’t scare me off as I’ve had turbo diesels before and with exception of Ford Motor Company raping us with their crap diesels in trucks for year’s, I’ve had no issues.


Really it no different than with a gas engine. I did same with my old NAA for years. With myself and most of us, we aren’t using these tractors continually. There are some on his board that use tractors as part of their livelihood and they know these machines inside and out as they’re on them damn near daily if not weekly. 

I will say for those in my category of occasional use, I suggest cranking and running their tractors on routine. I start and run everything at least every other week including generator, mowers, side by side, tractor and small engine tools. 

helps with this crap fuel, keeps things lined and if there’s issue I can repair before I actually really need them.


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## Groo

I agree, turbo isnt a deal killer. They are very dependable in general these days. Mainly just pointing out that I'd rather have tthe extra weight and slightly increased dependability of a NA for these machines.


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## bontai Joe

Okay, I'm ignorant on new diesels, so what is a DPF?


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## Bob Driver

Diesel Particulate Filter.... It's basically like a catalytic converter, but somebody got the bright idea to set it on fire internally and call it a "regen cycle". When they first came out in OTR buses, we used to melt asphalt parking lots with them. They were also known to melt the waste holding tanks. Then you were running down the road with passengers complaining about smelling a burning outhouse


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## bontai Joe

Thanks Bob, now I know and with some unforgettable imagery.


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## Cvans

bontai Joe said:


> Thanks Bob, now I know and with some unforgettable imagery.


I can remember when we purchased one of the early Dodge Caravans. When you'd start it in the winter to warm up you could see the converter glowing on the snow under the car when it was dark. A little unnerving.


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## Bob Driver

Transit buses sit so low and they rarely reach highway speeds where they would do an auto regen. We had the software to do forced regens. We did so many, we kept melting the asphalt parking lot and you didn't even want to do one on the shop floor. We ended up using an old outdoor concrete wash pad as the designated regen area. At night, you could actually see the DPF glowing. Had one shop that ran a city transit contract that involved about 50 units. Had a rotating slot on second shift that was the "regen guy". That's all that guy did the entire shift was forced regens..


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