# After market oils



## John 68

Have a new 2610 kioti time for first oil change.owners manual said api ch grade above can anyone explain this to me?


----------



## Hoodoo Valley

Welcome to the forum John! This will explain it better than me........

https://www.api.org/products-and-se...categories-and-classifications/oil-categories


----------



## marc_hanna

Basically, any currently available diesel oil is good for it. Just select the proper multi-grade for your climate. If you want, you can join the global debate on what the best oil is, and you will get wildly differing opinions, most of which is not substantiated by real evidence.

Only thing i would recommend of a certainty, is stay away from the no name brand oils, because you don't know what you're getting and a few investigative reports have shown that they often don't meet the specs stated on the packaging. 

I, of course, can make a bunch of other recommendations, but I will save my advice until solicited.


----------



## pogobill

I was checking out the diesel specific engine oils at TSC the other day and it seems they meet the CH-4 spec. I use Shell Rotella 15w40 Diesel Engine oil, and works fine for me. Like Marc says, pick a good brand name.


----------



## John 68

Hoodoo Valley said:


> Welcome to the forum John! This will explain it better than me........
> 
> https://www.api.org/products-and-se...categories-and-classifications/oil-categories


----------



## John 68

Thanks for the replys guys helped a lot


----------



## DK35vince

I've been running Rotella T-6
5w-40 synthetic in my Kioti DK for the past 18 years.


----------



## John 68

Thanks rotella is what i keep .i have never bought a new tractor just dont want to mess the warranty up.


----------



## marc_hanna

You’ll be fine with the Rotella, just make sure you follow the recommended oil change interval. 

I use the same Amsoil 5W40 in all my diesels. I think it’s a little overkill for the Kioti but I don’t want to stock more than one diesel oil. I checked my oil two days ago and it’s still super clean, but I’m going to change it anyways because it’s been more than twelve months since the last change.


----------



## Bob Driver

Here's an interesting Dutch article on motor oil...
https://www.rymax-lubricants.com/blog/total-base-number/

It explains Total Base Number (TBN) and Total Acid Number (TAN) and what they mean when you're reading oil analysis reports on used motor oil. Note the chart where the two lines cross.. This the *ideal* drain interval based on an ATSM D2896 test for TBN.

The TBN # for fresh 15w40 oil keeps climbing as the API Category numbers climb and diesel emissions standards tighten. Here's the list of API Category C (diesel oil) in current production with their launch date and average TBN #

CK-4 2016 10.5
CJ-4 2007 9.5
CI-4+ 2004 9.0
CI-4 2002 8.5
CH-4 1998 8.0

The TBN # of any 15-40 oil is important to a guy that runs 100's of OTR trucks, operating 1,000's of miles per week and is trying to maximize his drain interval in order to reduce maintenance cost/downtime. Not so much with a guy that owns a farm tractor that operates 50 hours per year. Just remember -- *the higher the TBN #, the better the protection package in the oil*, and usually the higher the price. CH-4 is the lowest TBN protection package in current production, with usually the lowest price. CK-4 has the highest current TBN, has the greatest current protection package, and comes with the highest price. In other words, "Boudro's Best" CK-4 offers a better protection package (TBN) than Rotella CH-4, as long as there is an API Approval Seal on the container/product sheet.

That doesn't mean you gain anything, other than spending $$$ for peace of mind, by running CK-4 oil in a 1999 farm tractor that was spec'd for CH-4. The only advantage would be if you were running it 50 hours per week and wanted to cut back on drain intervals. The TAN # doesn't climb and the TBN # doesn't drop unless the engine is running.... 15-40 doesn't evaporate, or go stale. That fresh 1 gallon of 15-40 could have been produced 3 years ago. Note their is no expiration date on it, so why change oil because "it's a year old"?

I still have an actual "can" of Mercron III ATF from the 70's just to show guys what those oil cans Frank collects on American Pickers look like in your hands, but I'm not going to put it my late model transmission.


----------



## marc_hanna

That’s why I use the Amsoil. After 18,000kms in service on my common rail engine the TBN was still holding strong and the oxidation was held at bay. The analyzers told me to leave it in and check back in another 5,000kms but I changed it out anyways.


----------



## Bob Driver

Whatever makes you sleep better..... If you were running a fleet of 1,000 OTR trucks, 140,000 miles per year, a "change it anyways decision" like that would cost you over $250,000 a year in unnecessary maintenance expense and downtime on your fleet.... Economy of Scale

Amsoil 5w40 Synthetic has a fresh TBN # of 12.5 and cost around $47 per gallon through their Distributors. Delo 400 CK-4 5w40 has a fresh TBN # of 11 and cost $18.75 per gallon at Wally World. 1.5 difference on the TBN #, $29 difference per gallon....

"Spending $$$ for peace of mind"..... Used to buy 50,000 gallons of Delo 400 CK-4 15-40 a year @ $14 gallon bulk = $700,000. Amsoil 5w40... $47 gallon x 50,000 gallons = $2.35M. Wouldn't have given me that kind of peace of mind for an extra $1.65M in oil expense to gain 1.5 on the TBN #


----------



## marc_hanna

Operating a fleet is a lot different than maintaining 4 diesels. I agree. 

I changed the oil in my common rail today, and this is what the oil looks like with 21,000 kms on it.


----------



## Bob Driver

With the introduction of 2016 emissions standards and CK-4 rated oil, the OEM's have once again pushed out their recommended drain intervals for line haul operations. With the 2007 emissions change, it was 24,000. With the 2010, emissions change it was 36,000. Here's their current recommended oil change intervals for 2016 engines, with CK-4 rated oil, in line haul operations (Rotella, Delo 400, and Castrol CK-4 rated oils are all approved for these mileages).

Volvo & Mack 60,000
Detroit 75,000
PACCAR 75,000

https://www.ccjdigital.com/fleets-extend-oil-drain-intervals-oem-recommendations/#

Good news... Fleets are saving a lot of money on pouring oil into their engines. Bad News... Fleets are pouring it right back into their trucks in the form of "Blue Juice" and worse fuel economy for the 2016 engines.

21,000 km is 13,000 miles?


----------



## marc_hanna

13,000 miles is about right. 

I think that with OTR rigs, the reduction in EGR and reduced compression may be big contributors to extending the oil change interval. I suspect my 3.0L V6 is probably a lot more punishing on oil than an 18-wheeler that runs at a steady-state all day long and has 3 times as much oil volume.


----------



## Bob Driver

Not so sure... How often do you shut your engine off? Team operations, running double-bunk sleepers, commonly only shut the truck off to refuel during those oil drain intervals. That includes driving in stop/go traffic (in L.A., Chicago, and Atlanta), pulling 80,000 loads up the grades heading West out of Denver to the continental divide, and running across the Mojave desert at Noon heading to L.A., so it's slightly more than a steady-state all day long.


----------



## marc_hanna

Higher compression and short runs, maybe, maybe not. It’s hard to say for sure until you do direct analysis comparison. 

I compared 3 oils on the same engine doing oil analysis every 5,000 kms. I compared mobile 1, mercedes 228.52, and Amsoil Diesel oil. I also compared results from two different labs to make sure there wasn’t a discrepancy. These results showed that mobile 1 was a rather poor performer, and had higher wear metals and significant oxidation after 10,000kms. Mercedes oil performed very well, but Amsoil performed the best. That’s when I decided to stick with the Amsoil. I’ve thought about doing additional comparisons, but I don’t see the benefit for my usage. The only purpose would be to win ‘which is the best oil’ arguments, which is really just a fruitless exercise. For most people, particularly fleet operators, it’s not about the absolute best oil, it’s about the the right balance between cost and protection. 

For me, I’m just looking for best protection. Three of my diesels get an oil change once a year, whereas the forth gets about 3 changes a year, so cost isn’t the primary concern. I typically buy 2.5 gallon jugs or cases of twelve quarts to reduce cost a little.


----------

