# Loader spool valve help



## broncobilly_69 (May 26, 2010)

So my bucket wouldn't stay rolled back. It slowly tilts forward, requiring me to re-curl it every 5 seconds or so with an empty bucket. I could hear some noise coming from the spool valve and when I would tilt the bucket down, it felt like something in the spool valve was catching on something soft. It is a Cross, two handle, valve. I pulled the tilt spool and had trouble getting it out, because it was catching on something soft. Once I got it out, I shine my flashlight inside and there are several pieces of what looks to be some sort of gasket material, see photo below. There are no gaskets that I see on the valve, just O-rings. 
I got all the debris that I could see out, but now I'm wondering where did this material come from? I was hoping someone on here might have some insight. Is it an indicator of another problem?


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## broncobilly_69 (May 26, 2010)

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## broncobilly_69 (May 26, 2010)

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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

broncobilly!! - that looks like a backing ring from a cylinder piston or shaft seal, size suggests piston, these are used to protect the softer seal ring (one either side of the seal ring) against the sharp edges of the piston land.
if you can roughly flatten this out and place together in a circle, this may give you an idea of which cylinder this has come from.


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## broncobilly_69 (May 26, 2010)

This is as close as I could get to piecing the gasket together.
I put re-asslembled the spool valve. The bucket stills slowy dumps, but it is slower than before and I don't hear the odd noise coming from the spool valve anymore. 
I repacked the cylinders a few years back. It seemed simple enough that I could keep form screwing it up, but I must have done something incorrectly in a tilt cylinder. I reckon I'll have to order new packing kits and try again. 
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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Packing a cylinder is pretty much a "Monkey see, Monkey do" deal. In other words, pay attention to the way it came apart and put it back together exactly the same way it came apart. Sounds easy, but it bites everybody in the butt eventually.

The easiest way to screw up a repack is to damage that nice new packing kit when you put the ram back in the barrel. I was taught to use a piston ring compressor, just like you would when putting a piston back in a cylinder bore. Rather than tap the ram in with a hammer horizontally, I go vertical with the barrel. I set the ring compressor up with as much of the ram protruding as possible to center the ram in the barrel, just like setting a piston up to insert in a cylinder. Then lift the barrel and ram up about 12" and let it drop on a concrete floor. The weight of the ram and enough "slick um" in the ring compressor will set the ram in the barrel far enough where you can usually get the end cap started. It's easier with two guys, especially if its a really big cylinder, but it works well to keeping from rolling, or cutting, the new packing as you insert the ram.


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## broncobilly_69 (May 26, 2010)

FredM, it looks like you were correct as to what that material was. All of the packing was gone off of my left tilt cylinder and the piston nut was loose. If memory serves me when I initially packed these, that piston nut was loose that time when I took it apart as well. Looking at the piston closely, the hole for the shaft is wallowed out. I'm guessing I'll need to replace the piston. any suggestions on where to source a replacement piston and packing. I don't remember where I got the packing from the first time. It is a Great Bend loader.


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## broncobilly_69 (May 26, 2010)

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## broncobilly_69 (May 26, 2010)

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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

I can't help you with a parts supplier in the States broncobilly as I am over the pond, I am sure I would not have any trouble finding a kit in my neck of the woods though.
You may be able to start here :-
https://www.greatbendindustries.com/company/index.htm


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

I will get poo-parred for writing this, if you can't get a new piston off shelf, you could either have a new one machined or in my case and your machine not being a industrial loader, have a "T" shaped sleeve machined and the bore of the piston machined so the sleeve would be a very firm fit and with the "T" side of the sleeve against the rod so when the piston is bolted up to the rod, the sleeve is held firmly between rod and nut, a machine shop would decide if it would be better to machine a new piston or re-sleeve and they would need the rod for size and fitment.








Just a rough drawing to give you an idea and sorry for the numbers coming through the paper, last months calendar sheet.


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## broncobilly_69 (May 26, 2010)

Thanks FredM. I'll try to remember update when I get it fixed.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

FredM said:


> I will get poo-parred for writing this, if you can't get a new piston off shelf, you could either have a new one machined or in my case and your machine not being a industrial loader, have a "T" shaped sleeve machined and the bore of the piston machined so the sleeve would be a very firm fit and with the "T" side of the sleeve against the rod so when the piston is bolted up to the rod, the sleeve is held firmly between rod and nut, a machine shop would decide if it would be better to machine a new piston or re-sleeve and they would need the rod for size and fitment.
> View attachment 66269
> 
> Just a rough drawing to give you an idea and sorry for the numbers coming through the paper, last months calendar sheet.


 "poo-parred"???? Must be an Australian thing..... Is that the same as a crap storm like I get caught in all the time here in Mississippi?

When I've come across a "two-piece" ram like that, there were usually o-rings sealing the inner bore of the piston from a by-pass at the rod connection.

I'm not going to let my buddy(mate) Fred stand out there in a crap storm and get poo-parred all by himself... Here's an umbrella and maybe even a poncho

Stainless steel Speedi-Sleeve









https://www.skf.com/us/products/ind...smission-seals/wear-sleeves/skf-speedi-sleeve


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Thanks Bob, I forgot about the O ring, but the sleeve still could be done using O rings.

A bit of aussie slang Bob and I mentioned on T.F. a couple of years ago that a hydraulic cylinder has a high power side and a low power side and got caned, I was referring to a full piston face and the rod side of the piston at the time, sorta got howled down about that, I was a bit annoyed that I had forgotten how to work Pi calibrations to show the different size areas of the piston and even work out the pressure difference between the rod side and the flat face, so I took the poo par, thanks for the umbrella and poncho Bob, I may still need it.


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## broncobilly_69 (May 26, 2010)

I will have to check the other side cylinder for an O-ring. That would make sense if you really want it to hold position.
Thank you for the info gentlemen!!


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

FredM said:


> Thanks Bob, I forgot about the O ring, but the sleeve still could be done using O rings.
> 
> A bit of aussie slang Bob and I mentioned on T.F. a couple of years ago that a hydraulic cylinder has a high power side and a low power side and got caned, I was referring to a full piston face and the rod side of the piston at the time, sorta got howled down about that, I was a bit annoyed that I had forgotten how to work Pi calibrations to show the different size areas of the piston and even work out the pressure difference between the rod side and the flat face, so I took the poo par, thanks for the umbrella and poncho Bob, I may still need it.


There are those that have done it for years. There are those that have seen it done, or read about how to do it, but never actually made their living out of a tool box. Those are usually the guys that can use Pascal's law to calculate the force of a hydraulic cylinder, but can't tell if it's an 5/8", or 11/16" nut by looking at it. Can't tell you the number of guys I've run into that had Snap-on Tools, but had Harbor Freight skills when it came to using them. I'll take the guy with a tool box that is beat to death, over the guy with the bright new shiny one every time

I can tell by your post you've spent enough time around a shop to qualify as the real deal.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

ssshh!! Bob, I bought a new roller drawer tool box a few months back and I have trouble matching spanners to nut sizes now, but one time I could look at a bolt and tell you if it was Whitworth, BSF, BSC, SAE, NF, NC, Metric in all of the different pitches and bolt dia, and can't forget pipe thread in their size range, but sadly, a lot of that memory has gone out the back door, you know what they say, "Use it or lose it", so very true, sorry broncobilly for taking over your thread.


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## broncobilly_69 (May 26, 2010)

I'm just glad that guys with your level of knowledge are on here and are happy to help us amateurs out and share your knowledge


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

broncobilly_69 said:


> I'm just glad that guys with your level of knowledge are on here and are happy to help us amateurs out and share your knowledge


At one time in my life, when I changed oil in my car, I thought you filled the crankcase through the dipstick tube. I advanced my basic knowledge by reading every Service Manual I could get my hands on, but when I actually went to work on a shop floor, it was the old timers that really supplied me with the knowledge and hands-on skills. There is a huge difference between having the technical knowledge and turning that into "the skill".

It was those same old timers that introduced me to "paying it forward". All of those guys have long since passed away. Over the last 50+ years, I've trained 100's of mechanics, but I'm retired now. It is out of respect/appreciation for what they did for me, that I participate in a forum like this to continue paying it forward.....


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

most likely your bore is a bit beat up too. I'd probably replace the whole cylinder if that is an option. probably even the pair of them so they will be matched.

FWIW, the root cause of the problem is that nut coming loose. That nut comes loose and the piston starts rocking, and your seal pukes out. If you put it back together again, use the good Loctite to crank it down for good. With a longer piston, that wouldn't be as big a deal, but still the nut backing off keeps it from working.


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## broncobilly_69 (May 26, 2010)

I sighted down the bore of my cylinders and they looked good to the naked eye. A local machine shop made me up two new pistons with what they said is an upgraded seal over the O ring that I had. Going to clean everything up good with brake cleaner and be sure to use some red Loctite on the threads when I put it back together.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

That will work well then, might I add when you slide the seal and rings onto the pistons, to use vaseline on the rubbers and gently ease the rubbers over the lands of the pistons, that is if you don't have rubber grease on hand.


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## broncobilly_69 (May 26, 2010)

The fine folks at Industrial Rebuilders Corp. already had the seals on the pistons for me. 
Unfortunately, it looks like my shafts are not identical twins. One of them must have been replaced at some point because the part that the piston attaches to is shaped a tiny bit differently and while the threads are the same, it flares out just tiny bit where the piston sits. My second new piston would not quite fit over it. Fortunately, I really only needed one new piston, I just had them make two so they would be the same and because it wasn't much more money to have him turn out 2 of them. I guess I have spare one side. It is put back together and seems to be functioning properly.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Perfect..... Glad it worked out


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