# garage heat.. kerosene



## guest

well it hit 34 degrees the other morning.. and im starting to think about heat for the garage...


The best thing would be a wood stove.. but im kind of leary about putting a wood stove out there for safety...


so for now im looking at kerosene... 

Home depot sells one for 120$

<img src=http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/HDUS/EN_US/asset/images/eplus/164149_3.jpg>


heres one from northern tool.. looks & costs about the same..

<img src=http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/173405_lg.jpg>



Ive never used a kerosene heater.. seems simple enough to be able to just leave it in the center of an open area.. while i am watching it... 





harbor freight is selling this wood stove for 130$

<img src=http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/32000-32099/32058.gif>



nothing beats a wood stove.. but for safety i am leaning towards kerosene.. and if i were to get a wood stove id want something where i can watch the fire... i think a wood stove like the one im wanting would cost much more.. but i do have plenty of trees and could run the stove all winter for nothing..



any disadvantages to using kerosene?? besides maybe smell? any real issues with a wood stove? besides safety??


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## Live Oak

SJ, I have 3 kerosene heaters I use as back up heat during really cold snaps or a quick boost in heat first thing. They are very convienient and very fast at getting a great deal of effective heat going fast. 

They are relatively maintenance free but do require replacement of the wicks and cleaning very infrequently. I have some heaters that I have used for over 10 years on the same wicks. 

It is a good practice to periodically burn the heater dry to clean the wick as it will start drawing kerosene slow if you don't. 

If you have any buddies who work around aircraft and get waste Jet-A or JP-8; this fuel works really well. Puts out even more heat but does not last as long. 

For your garage, I think they will be a good choice as a wood stove takes a long time to get going and and long time to go out. They are designed to be kept burning for long periods of time. I keep my wood stove burning for months at a time during winter. The kerosene heaters you can turn on and off as you need. 

They do smoke and stick a lot on shut down and a bit on start up but once going, they are pretty much odorless if burning correctly. 

I would think you will probably need two of the 23,000 btu kerosene heaters for your garage; at least on cold days.


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## Live Oak

Something else you may want to consider depending upon how much money you spend heating your garage is a corn or wood pellet stove. These stoves a expensive but the fuel is really cheap, especially corn. 

For occasional use heating though, I would thing the kerosene is the best option.


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## Rodster

What is the size of your garage?
Rodster
:question:


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## guest

> _Originally posted by Rodster _
> *What is the size of your garage?
> Rodster
> :question: *


26*38 as for heat, it would not need to be up to living conditions.. (65-70 degrees)
i would need just enough to make it ok to hang out there.. 45-60 degrees..


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## Rodster

Hi John
I just have a standard size two car garage. I used to use the kero salamander type heaters. they heat fast and burn clean if you burn the good kero. trouble was the noise and the fact that
they would heat the garage good but the floor was always cold as the heat just went up. I spend a lot of time in the garage so I finally went with a forced air natural gas heat. It is quiet and the floor is warm plus the cost is a fraction of buying kero. The cost is a lot more but the quality of heat is worth it. Just depends how much time and what you do out there. Here is a picture of my set up.
Rodster


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## ducati996

Its overkill but look at something simliar to the Franco Belge unit
which i posted somewhere in this forum....its the unit for gravity fed home heating oil (diesel) units.....

I have a relative that I helped locate a unit here, and brought it up to New Hampshire...its the 41,000 BTU unit which dosent require any electricty, just gravity fed fuel....it heats 2,500 sq ft
and in a month only uses 15-20 gallaons on medium to high settings...set it and forget it literally for the winter

There are other types of units that do similar methods, some use blowers to disperse the heat (which requires A/C) I stayed away from that type. But it may work for others....search and they are out there...

Duc


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## bontai Joe

Please just remember that the kero heaters have an OPEN FLAME! A definite NO-NO if using solvents, pouring gasoline, using paint thinner, spraying paint, or sanding wood that will create a lot of airborn dust. All of which can cause an explosion.


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## Chipmaker

I don't think a wood stove is any more dangerous than a kero heater, but I think a kero would be better as chief stated......but if it was me, and I lived there and had the cold conditions, (and I don't like temps to survive in, Ilike real nice warm temps to work in and be around in a shop) I would probably go with a good air tight wood stove, not the crap HF sells.........

Push come to shove I can cut up pallets, gather scrap wood from construction sites etc if I had to......easier than I could scrounge up sufficient kero to keep warm with. A good stove heats up quick and is easy to light, and maintains a good burn for a long time...........but they are still not as easy to operate as a kero heater is.

Just think, being able to work on yur car with the garage door open and a nice warm interior with a hot wood fire gong, coffee staying hot on the lid, open door roast a weiner, bake a potatoe.........heck all you need is a bedroll and you would never need to go back in the house!:furious: :furious:


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## Ingersoll444

I use a Kero heater like that in my garage, and it works pretty good. Is a bit of a smell but not that bad. A good thing is that is you ARE using any solvents, you can shut it off fast, use the cems, then ventlate, and fire it back up quick. Much faster then a wood stove.


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## ducati996

I re-found my link....convection heating via home oil

http://www.francobelge.com/gb/indexgb.asp


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## guest2

sj
Joe had a good point about the kerosene heaters having an open flame. Sometimes if there is a draft or they're not running right, or running out of fuel, they will belch a flame out the front. Avoid the temptation to stand real close to warm up, your pants could ignite.

Also never block the air flow from behind in an attempt to get more heat. I know you're smarter than the genius' on my route, but I see them do this every winter. Then the cone at the front glows red until it starts to melt and flames shoot out like a crashing jet. All while they continue to spray paint and carb cleaner. It's a good thing God watches out for idiots!


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## bontai Joe

I use a kero heater in my basement during the winter if I want to work donw there. It works well, is quick and easy to use and I can shut it off a lot easier than a wood stove (for which I don't have a chimney so can't use, don't want a metal chimney up the side of my house). Some of the new pellet stoves are efficient enough that you don't need a chinmey, just a PVC vent through the wall. They are easy to start, easy to stop and the fuel is available at Walmart (at least in my area). I'm trying (with little success) to save up for one of them, because they deliver more BTUs.


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## guest

> _Originally posted by Chipmaker _
> *Just think, being able to work on yur car with the garage door open and a nice warm interior with a hot wood fire gong, coffee staying hot on the lid, open door roast a weiner, bake a potatoe *


Chip.. i could not have said that any better if i'd tried... you should have been a writer.. 

A wood stove in the garage is exactly what id want to do... But..

For this season.. im gonna have to go with a kerosene heater... maybe next year (if i have any extra money) ill do the wood stove.. that scenario just sounds too good to pass up... 



for a cheap easy quick way for warmth ill do kerosene for this winter.. hopefully a future winter will have me sitting by a wood stove drinking a cold one....


cost of a stove: 
I called a local fireplace store.. they estimated about $2000 for a complete setup (not installed) $1200 for the stove and 800$ for the bestage pipe (in place of a chimney) no direct or b vent fireplaces.. except for a pellet... but then id be buying the pellets which although easy.. makes no sense considering i have all the wood id ever want to burn out back...



thanks for all the input..


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## Live Oak

Corn stoves are cheap to buy fuel for. Corn is about $2.50 a bushel. A bushel of corn woud heat your garage for a several days if not a week if you did not leave it on all the time.


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## Fusion1970

SJ...Heres another option to consider. It is a 80K BTU propane convection heater. It is 40K on low, 60K on med., and 80K on high. http://www.reddyheat.com/products/rcp80v.html

I live in central Ohio. I know it gets colder in Maine, but this heater is plenty adequate on the "low" setting. My garage is 21'x23', with a semi-finished ceiling, and finished with R-13 on three of the four sides. When 15 degrees outside, I can get the garage to about 70 within an hour on the low setting. 

I know some people do not like them, but I have no complaints whatsoever. It doesn't ever smell, but some have told me that propane produces moisture. To curb this, I sometimes run a small ceramic heater which I just put up on the work bench. 

I also would never run a propane heater without an o2 sensor. My car and even my tractor will set it off if I do not back them out soon after starting them...the heater has never once set it off, and I do not open the door for ventilation much at all. 

It is also very light, and easy to move around from the garage to the shed. Again, just another idea- but again, I am sold on propane convection heaters. BTW, the heater was under $100 at Lowes.

Greg


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## guest

thanks greg.. bob pm'd me this one too..

<img src=http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/173607_lg.jpg>


same idea.. he indicated there are no real open flames and that it does not use too much propane.. 
im gonns take a look at both the propane and the kerosene at Home depot...

Chief i never heard of a corn stove... interesting... do they burn on kernels?


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## guest

anybody use one of these style heaters? 

<img src=http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=propane+heater/v=2/SID=e/l=IVI/SIG=11qnvv2vv/*-http%3A//www.universalheaters.com/images/3500-FACNG.jpg>



The did not have any of the kerosene heaters i showed a pic of originally at HD.. may be a little too early in the season... 

they had the propane kind (turkey fryer looking heater) like in the last post.. but those were both made in china.. 


They sold models like these... both types... that run on either propane or kerosene. 

The Turkey fryer looking heater (last post) looks good and sounds like its a great source for a blast of real heat.. but im sort of leary of my dog running into it or getting too hot. 

the original kerosene heater (original post) seems to be functional but not a quick source of heat...


a sales guy at HD said he liked this style.. they blow a lot of heat and if i got a propane one.. its odorless... 

i sort of like the kerosene becasue although you must refill it often.. and it does have an odor.. it would take up less space than a heater AND a big 40 gallon or a 20 gallon tank..


the heater in this pic.. (or the version they sell at HD) is made in US and i am assuming would put out a good blast of warm heat...


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## Live Oak

> _Originally posted by simple_john _
> *thanks greg.. bob pm'd me this one too..
> 
> <img src=http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/173607_lg.jpg>
> 
> 
> same idea.. he indicated there are no real open flames and that it does not use too much propane..
> im gonns take a look at both the propane and the kerosene at Home depot...
> 
> Chief i never heard of a corn stove... interesting... do they burn on kernels? *


Yes, they burn dried corn kernels.

Corn Heating Stoves 

This is a pellet stove but I think it can burn corn as well. 

PELLET STOVE/SHOP HEATER


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## guest

pellet stoves can be direct vented too... 


that would save on a chimney.


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## AlbanyBob

SJ:

That heater you posted the Universal 350,000 BTU Jet engine as I like to call them, are good but not very efficent. The higer the BTU the more propane you need to run them properly. That pictured heater may need 2 or 3 100 pound tanks hooked to a manifold to run correctly. They suck and burn a lot of propane. 

What I am saying is that with the draw they have you would go through a 20 pound tank in about an hour to the point of it frosting up.

I still think the best is the Turkey fryer type as you call it, no electricity and my dog never ran into it or got near it for that matter.

Bob :captain: outta here


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## tjw in kans

simple john i will add my 2 cents worth from my experiences, my garage is 2 feet shorter, the stand up kerosene heater had to run all night to have a warm garage in the a.m. around 20 degrees outside, i gave the heater to my son. i have a similar wood stove in my basement and would not recommend it, takes 4 hours to warm the basement, have to have a fan blow on it to distribute the heat, logs burn fast even with a damper control and cant be shut off quickly. next i tried a salamander type heater, 60,000 btu with kerosene from home depot for around 160 dollars, works good but noisey, added a northern tool thermostat to contol the temp, plugs in series with the power cord. i also bought a 50,000 btu same type that runs off a 20# propane tank at a close out sale for 50 bucks for a backup unit, thermostat setup cant be used with it. last winter i added 10 inches of insulation to the ceiling and installed 2 42 inch ceiling fans to the ceiling in the center of the garage to circulate the heat back down. this was my biggest improvement, i only have to run the kerosene salamander for about an hour on a 15-20 dgree morning towarm things up. like someone else mentioned, the floors stay cold for a long time. for safety, i leave a window opened slightly and about once an hour, raise and close the garage door. i hope this helps some and maybe save you money experiminting. my next move in several years will be a forced air furnace.


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## ducati996

> _Originally posted by ducati996 _
> *I re-found my link....convection heating via home oil
> 
> http://www.francobelge.com/gb/indexgb.asp *



SJ,

I think you should look at my link and mfg. If not something similar
Home oil based convection & radiant heat is the technical term they use. look under oil/kerosene and then a few models to chose from. The Normandie unit is a 41,000 BTU unit which hooks up like a wood stove but requires no electric. Just gavity feed home heating oil. It uses very little in the coldest weather...A typical furnace will burn 200 gals a month, if not more. This unit will use 20 gallons and it will heat 1,500-2,000 square feet no problem....it works thats for sure...

Ducati


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## guest

thanks duc.. 
sorry i did not go through it before, i read oil and assumed they needed an oil tank to feed it.. they appear to have a holding tank for kerosene or oil built in... Nice.. 


if i recall, your family has one of these? i remember you saying how well it worked... 


any idea what kind of vent do they use? is it a direct vent type thing or a chimney? 

from the specs & pics they almost look like they dont need a chimney vent... very nice


Any idea what they cost? 

they look real nice
<img src=http://www.francobelge.com/Img_Base/Produit/P2_025.jpg>


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## ducati996

SJ,

It required a vent but it was already there, it just replaced a woodstove. I cant say enough about it, and it was put to the test the last two winters in NH. I found it locally used ($800) and brought it up to NH. New my guess under $1500...but the savings is on fuel in the long run. 20 gals is nothing to heat 1,500 sq feet. I have a dealer near me, there must be one in New England. There are other mfg's of similair design so keep you eyes open for options. The guy I bought the unit from heats his store just on that. No other heat and he keeps it on low all winter - he says he uses 10 gallons a month. I was sold after that....many different ways to have a tank setup for this in your garage- and all could be gravity feed....Do you currently have oil heat? 

Ducati


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## guest

> _Originally posted by ducati996 _
> *SJ,
> 
> Do you currently have oil heat?
> 
> Ducati *


yup but the tank is in the basement on the other side of the house & yard.. it would be better to put some sort of a tank up.. actually if i were to get one.. id probably lean towards a kerosene model where they have their own 'holding tank' 

i sent an email to the site looking for a local dealer... thanks..


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## AlbanyBob

Morning Duc:

Hey could you pass along that dealers name near you for these heaters.

Also how does it heat up your place. I have just over 1,000 square feet to heat but mine is upstairs and down. What kind of floor plan are you heating with it.

I amy be real intrested in using one of these in my house instead of the oil sucking furnace that is there now.

Also is there any way to hook up a pump to get the oil to it. I have a 275 gallon tank in the basement that I would like to be able to use for it.

Bob :spinsmile :captain:


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## Topdj

I need to find affordable heat for my Garage approx 1000sf with 10-8" ceilings , natural gas is going up $$. I have a 20000 btu
blue flame heater but that will not heat it, only keep it from becoming a freezer. I like a vented Kero unit or waste oil
heater for working out there.


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## ducati996

> _Originally posted by simple_john _
> *yup but the tank is in the basement on the other side of the house & yard.. it would be better to put some sort of a tank up.. actually if i were to get one.. id probably lean towards a kerosene model where they have their own 'holding tank'
> 
> i sent an email to the site looking for a local dealer... thanks.. *



The reason i asked about oil heat is maybe your heating company
can assist in the setup or provide the tank (small one) with gravity line. You can have it filled when your house is being filled.

I will provide the number of my local guy shortly...hopefully he can give you tips and ideas. I think he has a small tank feeding it directly...ask them about the Franco Belge Normandie in their store heating it...

Edison & Kellogg 
553 Route 25A, Saint James, NY 11780 
(631) 862-8555 


As for heating an open ceiling second floor setup, I'm sure it will help a lot but I have only seen it work great in a closed in (no second floor or open) setup...42, 000 BTU is 42,000 btu's I would imagine celing fans could make the difference in spreading the heat to the upper levels...

If it was my setup, I would do it in a heart beat...I actually may set one up in our enclosed porch once I redo it....but I'm not ready yet for that...

Good luck

Ducati


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## guest

searching on line for that brand does not get much US stuff... there seems to be lots of UK sites....

i found 1 place napolean dealers that has a link to where to buy by zip code..

link


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## ducati996

> _Originally posted by simple_john _
> *searching on line for that brand does not get much US stuff... there seems to be lots of UK sites....
> 
> i found 1 place napolean dealers that has a link to where to buy by zip code..
> 
> link *


Hi SJ,

This guy is based in MA which is a little closer to you....I havent even search that hard....the spec's they have are off, most of the better Franco's like the Normandie are true 40,000 BTU unit and higher...

http://www.baygo.com/oconnell/stoves.htm

Ducati

This guy is in CT -scroll down on the web page you will see Franco Belge Oil heaters

http://www.farmval.com/virtual/greenmtn.htm


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## jodyand

Just remember that they are saying this is going to be a colder then normal winter and if you use oil the price will be higher because of the price of crude oil is high. Just something to think about.


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## guest

> _Originally posted by jodyand _
> *Just remember that they are saying this is going to be a colder then normal winter and if you use oil the price will be higher because of the price of crude oil is high. Just something to think about. *


im not looking forward to this winter.... last year i prebought oil at 1.19/gallon...
right now its selling for 1.69/gallon but it always goes up in the winter... 
i used about 650 gallons from october to april last year.... 
plus gas for the gas stoves (used only occasionally because gas was more money)


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## balmoralboy

> _Originally posted by simple_john _
> *im not looking forward to this winter.... last year i prebought oil at 1.19/gallon...
> right now its selling for 1.69/gallon but it always goes up in the winter...
> i used about 650 gallons from october to april last year....
> plus gas for the gas stoves (used only occasionally because gas was more money) *


I used about 7500 Gallons last year.


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## bontai Joe

> _Originally posted by balmoralboy _
> *I used about 7500 Gallons last year. *


OUCH!!!!! In Canadian dollars that would be... ahhh... let's see... carry the 2 and.... 




a BIG pile of money!


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## balmoralboy

> _Originally posted by bontai Joe _
> *OUCH!!!!! In Canadian dollars that would be... ahhh... let's see... carry the 2 and....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a BIG pile of money! *



Way too much!!!


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## guest

wow 7500 gallons..... ouch!!!


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## AlbanyBob

:smoking: OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn and I thought I used a lot at 1,000 gallons last year in Albnay, NY.

I can't even phatom the idea of 7,500 gallons.

Somebody remind me never to live in Nova Scotia.  

outta here :argh: Bob


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## guest

> _Originally posted by AlbanyBob _
> *:smoking: OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Somebody remind me never to live in Nova Scotia.
> 
> outta here :argh: Bob *



Bob, Im guessing thats to heat jims entire motel... not just his house.... but still 7500 gallons.. man id hate those oil bills.


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## guest

welli got me heater from home depot today.. i got the kerosene shown in the original pic... 
<img src=http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/HDUS/EN_US/asset/images/eplus/164149_3.jpg>

Id like to do something more permanant next year or so.. but for now.. the kerosene should work fine... 
im not expecting much heat - till i get the ceilings up... but hopefully it will 'take the chill out' of the air a bit.. its to drop into the low 30's tonight. so it will be a good time to test it..


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## Live Oak

I think you will be satisfied with how it performs although I think you may find you will need a second heater for when it really gets cold.


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## guest

home depot was selling their own kerosene... big bucks... 20$ for 5 gallons... 

The guy said 'its much cleaner and made for these heaters' 
i just went to a local gas station and bought it there for well under 1/2 the price... 

Im guessing that i dont need to waste my money on the HD kerosene?


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## Ingersoll444

I did get a gal of the "special" heater kerosene last year from HD, and it WAS cleaner buring, and less stinky, but the reg stuff was not that bad and a LOT cheaper.


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## Live Oak

SJ, I use the gas station Kerosene. If you want it to burn a little cleaner and keep the wicks clean; I add about 2% to 5% isoproply alcohol to the kersene. DO NOT use the regular dry-gas stuff (it is methyl alcohol and is not soluable in kerosene) For the most part, you don't need to add anything.


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## Rodster

Be carefull
years ago I tried burning diesel in my salamander heater. Bad
running and instant headache from fumes. I went back to K1 kerosene.
Rodster


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## guest

> _Originally posted by Rodster _
> *Be carefull
> years ago I tried burning diesel in my salamander heater. Bad
> running and instant headache from fumes. I went back to K1 kerosene.
> Rodster *


Rod: up our way... deisel costs more than kerosene... 

I guess its the other way around in other parts of the country..


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## Rodster

Years ago before the kero heaters became popular it was very hard to even find Kerosene.
Rodster


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## Live Oak

If you can't find kerosen; go to the nearest airport or airfield and buy some Jet A or Jet A-1. Burns real clean and put out a good bit more heat as well. It may be a little more expensive though.


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## balmoralboy

> _Originally posted by Chief _
> *If you can't find kerosen; go to the nearest airport or airfield and buy some Jet A or Jet A-1. Burns real clean and put out a good bit more heat as well. It may be a little more expensive though. *


Good call, Chief. 

Jet A is kerosene which is filtered very clean. It will work very well in a kerosene heater, but don't try filling it while it's hot!


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