# smaller ZTR recommendation



## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

My old Ingersoll (Murray) 4WS lawn tractor needs to be replaced with something better suited to my lawn needs. The Ingersoll still runs, new battery, solenoid, muffler, but it just tears up the lawn steering around my 30+ trees on my 1/2 acre city lot. Also there is a lot of pitch change around the yard and trees. And, because of the trees I get a LOT of leaves to clean up in the fall. The old Ingersoll can handle pulling a 10x16 tarp heavily loaded with leaves, but it is pushing what a belt drive system can handle. I got the Ingy free without an engine back in 05, and I installed a B&S 15.5 Intek single that has worked great all these years. 

But, I am ready to change, and I think the *right* ZTR is the right choice. I'd even buy a small ZTR with a toasted engine and just move the B&S Intek to it. My concerns for choosing a ZTR are: 1. Cost, I will not buy a new machine, just can't spend the bucks right now. 2. Heavy duty needs: I feel for my yard and for tarping out heavy leaf loads in the fall I need a ZTR with real, good, serviceable wheel motors and hydraulics (no Dixons then). 3. Size, I don't need or want a 52" deck, as I have way too much to mow around and into some tight areas. 4. Because of the grade issues I think an articulating front axle would be a good idea to keep the ZTR frame more level. 

So I am shopping for a used, smaller, commercial build ZTR, hopefully with an articulated front axle (if possible). It has to be more than residential duty to handle towing out large heavy tarps of leaves to the curb in the fall (tarps I cannot even budge trying to pull them myself, so hundreds of pounds of leaf load). Any suggestions? i passed on a Dixon commercial Kodiak 50" ZTR last fall because I had no where to put it. Also, anyone interested in a vintage running Ingersoll 1114FWS lawn tractor?


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

You left out the most important part of your search criteria I ask customers when they are looking for a used machine.... "How much $$$$ you want to spend???"

Decent used commercial-grade, full-hydraulic (pumps & wheel motors) start at around $4,000 around here. Exmark, Scag, Gravely, and Kubota are what the local commercial lawn guys seem to like. A lot of that has to due with the financing, warranty, and Dealer service (loaner program) available on a local basis, not necessarily on quality or durability.

Buying a used commercial-grade machine can be risky..... The average homeowner puts 50-60 hours a *SEASON* on a mower. The average commercial lawn guy puts 30-40 hours per *WEEK.
*
Commercial Lawn guys don't really care what the invoice price is on the machine, they're never going to pay it off anyway. They look at the monthly payments on a 36 month finance note. Why 36 months? That's when the engine and chassis warranty runs out. Then they trade it in on a new one and start the warranty all over again. They don't care if a mower has a $350 a month payment, they're mowing 40 lawns a week @$50 each during the season.

For the work you described, I'd go with a higher end "Homeowner" unit with Hydro-Gear transaxles and lower hours as oppposed to a commerical trade-in that's been run into the ground, on a dialy basis, by a kid making $10 and hour under the table for a commercial lawn guy.

I can give you the run down on what to look for in the way of durability on Hydro-Gear transaxles if you're interested? There's a huge difference between the grades/durability of Hydro-Gear units and it all centers around axle size by model #.....


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Thanks for the reply! Well, being the CAB that I am (Cheap Ass Bastard) I'd prefer to keep the $$ low, even if I have to do repairs. I like doing that kind of stuff, as long as the basics are there. I know Hydro-gear makes good wheel motors, as they are nearly everywhere in the ZTR market, as are Parker Torqmotors which mount in place of the Hydro-gear units. Or the Parker HTE units. and Parker sells a lot of them in the ZTR commercial markets. 





I work for Parker so I have inside access to the division that makes the motors. I'm a field application engineer for Parker on hydraulic hose so I also have the product and means to replumb a ZTR if needed. But i am certainly interested in learning more about what survives in the real world of use by pros.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Dang, just the guy *I'M* looking for.... I need a #seal for a Parker drive motor
Hydro-Gear Transaxles:

Homeowner Grade....
*ZT2200*- 10cc pump/10cc motor, 215 LBS torque, 1" axle, 7MPH 900LBS GVW

*ZT2800* - 12cc pump/16cc motor, 300 LBS torque, 1" axle, 8MPH 1,000LBS GVW

*ZT3100* - 12cc pump/16cc motor, 350 LBS torque, 1" axle, 9MPH, 1,200LBS GVW

Commercial Grade....
*ZT3200*- 12cc pump/16cc motor, 470 LBS torque, 1.25", 9MPH 1,500LBS GVW

*ZT3400*- 12cc pump/16cc motor, 500 LBS torque, 1.25" axle, 10MPH 1,600LBS GVW...

*ZT3600*- 12cc pump/16cc motor, 500 LBS torque, 1.25", 10MPH 1,600LBS GVW

*ZT3800*- 12cc pump/16cc motor, 500 LBS torque, 1.125", 11MPH 1,800LBS GVW

*ZT4400*- 12cc pump/16cc motor, 575 LBS torque, 1.375", 12MPH 1,800LBS GVW

*ZT5400*- 16cc pump/22cc motor700 LBS torque, 1.375", 18MPH 2,200LBS GVW (Planetary Drive)


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

So, you're looking for the Parker part number on the seals for those motors, and a source for the parts right? I'll find the part numbers for you. 

Oh. Is an older Cub Cadet Z-Force commercial (claimed) ZTR worth any consideration for a 1/2 acre residential lot? It has a Kawasaki 15hp V-twin engine. My current lawn tractor is only 15.5hp. Repairs I can handle, even engine work is no big deal as I have over 40 years of motorcycle engine work experience from carbs to clutches to cranks. If the Hydros are good is it reasonable to through a low offer on one?


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Wait now, you're looking for *Parker *seals in the Hydro-Gear transaxles? Like the seals inside this ZT-2800:








If it has an actual Parker seal element in it, I would not have that info as it is a Hydro-Gear part. Hydro-Gear is not a Parker division. If you have the Hydro-Gear part number for the seals I may be able to get you to a customer service contact to cross-match the part numbers.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Nope... It's an actual Parker drive motor. I've got to get it out of the machine to give you a number, but it's definitely a Parker motor.....

I've got a CC Z Force for sale right now. They're pretty solid machines. Mines a 50", 23HP Kohler, 400 hours...... I've got it priced at $1,000


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Too bad Green Bay is't close to Endville, I'd be working a deal on your Z-Force. Seller up this way has a 2004 15hp Z-Force for sale, asking $900. Says it works fine, he just needs a bigger ZTR. 
I have done a lot of work your way last year, between Columbus and Louisville, at Taylor Defense.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

The first two letters of that 14-digit code on the tag will start with ZH - ZJ - ZK - ZL, or ZM if they're ZT2800's


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Can you get a picture of the ID on the Parker wheel motors I can help. Those Z series part numbers are nothing I have found in Parker so far. 

Just missed on a Cub Cadet Z-Force 44 for $900. nuts


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Just need a seal # number, or dimensions on the seal. I'll send you a private e-mail as soon I can get you the #'s of the drive motor.

Really appreciate the help


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Assuming a zero turn mower has been properly maintained and serviced, how many hours on the wheel motors is reasonable? I have seen a lot of used zero turn mowers with less than 500 hours. But is there a certain number of hours at which a residential or commercial zero turn becomes a service issue?


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Now that I have used my Simplicity ZT2652 to mow my 1/2 acre yard (with MANY trees) I am getting used to a ZTR versus a lawn tractor. I have to get over the thought of running the ZTR fast, and just use it accurately. However, I am feeling it is too big a ZTR for my lot size. I may fix it up to flip it next spring, I certainly cannot loose my $800 to buy this 2015 ZT2652, as it has a B&S 26hp V-twin, and 52" deck, should be an easy sell next season for around $1600.

Two machines stand out to me as the right size and capability for my yard and needs:
Ferris F60Z: 25hp, 36" deck, Hydrogear ZT3100 transaxles, B&S or Kawasaki engine, fabricated/welded deck.

Gravely Compact-Pro 34: 34" deck, Hydrogear ZT3100 transaxles, 15.5hp Kawasaki V-twin, fabricated/welded deck

The F60Z is very desirable for power and features in a small lot ZTR. Gravely also has the ZT-HD 44 (also uses the ZT3100 transaxles), ZT-XL 42 (uses the ZT2800 transaxles) which may be suitable for my yard.


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