# Mahindra 575 Gear Case Noise



## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

This afternoon while pulling a grader blade, my "Ole Reliable" Mahindra 575 started making scary noise from the gear box. Sounded like something was binding but it stops when the clutch is disengaged. Then it is hard to shift out of gear (was running in 1st). Once you get it out of gear then it goes back in OK and runs OK for a short while, then starts again and, after a few minutes of this, light smoke comes out around the shifter lever. The problem seems to only occur in 1st gear, but I did not try all gears, just wanted to get it back to the barn.One other bit if info, it has always been a bear to shift from low range to high range. Now it is impossible even when trying to nudge the H/L lever with a hammer. I also have never been able to shift to 4th gear, but I have never needed the speed so I just ignore it.

My first thought was oil level. I changed the gearbox oil before putting it up last fall refilled with 5 gal of 80/90W as per the owner's manual. Then while looking for gaskets on Bill's Tractors site found a chart that listed the oil qty as 7 gal for a 575! Could probably get 7 in but it would be full to the top. Can anyone verify the correct oil quantity?

My next step is to drain the oil and check for any metal filings, etc. If none is found and my 5 gal oil level is correct, will pull the top plate to look inside. However, The "parts catalogue" is of no help in trying to understand what to look for. It only has line drawings with a reference number, no descriptions. Would like any suggestions of what I should be looking for?

Thanks guys!


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Transmission capacity is 9.24 US gallons. If yours has the wet brakes and the three point hydraulics run out of the transmission sump, it requires Universal Tractor Fluid.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

RC –
Thanks for the reply. My tractor is a 1996 Mahindra 575-DI. I bought it used about 10 years ago and it has been a good tractor for my purposes. The hydraulic fluid and transmission reservoirs are separate and it has mechanical disc breaks, which by the way are the worst brakes I have ever experienced. The brakes are absolutely useless except for maybe using the park brake to keep it from rolling on a slight incline.

The Operators manual that came with the tractor specifies the transmission capacity as 4.75 to 5.5 gal of 80W or 90W EP. That is about the amount that I drained when I first replaced the oil several years ago. Judging from the dipstick I made when I replaced the oil, I think I could get 7 gal in but think 9.24 gal would be a stretch. At $14 a gal, I don’t want to

My current plan is to drain the oil and remove the top cover. This way I can see the level when I put new oil in and look for any obvious problems. There are 2 cover bolts underneath the Isolating Valve cover that look like a bear to get out.

Question 1: How high should the oil level be in the gearbox?

Question 2. The Hi/Lo lever and gear shift come out with the top cover. Is there anything I should do to make sure I can get them back in correctly?

Question 3. Since I have no technical info on the transmission gearbox, is there anything in particular that I should be looking for when I remove the cover?

Would greatly appreciate any suggestions from anyone.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

I have only seen the version with the wet brakes, not the dry brake model you have. So I am stumped. The wet brake version has a half inch square head pipe plug for checking oil level on the right side of the transmission, just ahead of the stepped down section that contains the differential gears.

The wet brake version transmission case top just lifts off with the shift forks just dropping over the shift collars. Pretty similar to the older US tractors. As long as alignment was maintained it was a drop and bolt operation.

I think you are going to have to locate the appropriate service manual. The early Mahindra manuals came in an engine version, and a chassis version. I believe you want the chassis version, but would call Bill's to verify the correct manual, 866-403-6013 is the phone number I have.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

After spending $95 on 2 manuals for my Mahindra 575, I was able to get a better idea on removing the shifter cover to inspect the gearbox. It looked fairly straight forward until I started removing the cover bolts. The back edge of the Shifter Cover is underneath the hydraulic unit Control Valve Cylinder Head (see attached jpg 1) and I thought that, if I could remove all the cover bolts, I could slide the cover forward enough to lift it out. All of the bolts came out except one that is located underneath the Cylinder Head. There is not enough room to place a socket on it and not quite enough room to get an open end wrench on it. I cannot remove the Cylinder Head because one of the 8 bolts attaching it to the hydraulic unit is underneath the Cylinder Head next to the cover bolt that I cannot remove. Both bolts are shown in the close up jpg.

I can see no way to get either of these bolts out without removing the Hydraulic Unit to give me enough access to them.






















What appeared to be a simple 1 day job is beginning to look like a “gearbox from hell” project. I have considered shearing off the inaccessible cover bolt. But if I do that and can’t slide the cover forward enough to clear the Cylinder Head or remove the Cylinder head bolt (see jpg 2, you can barely see the 2 problem bolts in the grease), I’m really screwed.

If anyone can offer any words of wisdom, I would really appreciate it. It is times like this when I would really like to get my hands on the “engineer” that ‘designed” this setup!!!!


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

You want what is commonly called an offset box end wrench. Corner your Snap-On tool truck dealer. They have what is needed.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Ernie -- have a look at your parts book showing the cover and transmission housing, I wouldn't be surprised if there are not a couple of aligning dowels sitting under the cover, so sliding the top cover off could be out of the question.

In the past, I have been known to wear a butchers apron and cut and shut a ring spanner to fit a job, but as "R.C." says, you have snap-on for the special tool, and there are many types of spanner today.

Keep plugging mate !!, you will get there.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

OK Guys -Here is my current assessment of the situation.

My first goal is to get the shifter cover bolt out. It takes a 14mm wrench, a 9/16 would work being slightly larger. I have a set of offset wrenches, but they don't help. I can get access to the bolt head but it is too close to the Cylinder Head which is mounted to the Hyd Housing to allow a box end to fit down over the bolt. There is not enough space above the bolt to get a thin wall socket on. An open end will not fit well enough to get a good grip on the bolt. My options are: 1) find a thin wall box end. Motorcycle wrenches have to fit in very tight areas. Maybe I can find one that will work. 2) take an box end to the grinder and try to make it slide over the bolt and hope it don't break. 3) last choice is to take a small cold chisel and hammer to try to loosen the bolt enough to work it out. So far I have ruled out lifting the Hyd Housing enough to give me access.

Assuming I can get the bolt out, I do not see any alignment pins in the cover. Manuals are no help. They all assume the Hyd housing is off the tractor. I would need to slide the cover forward about 1-1/2" to clear the hyd Cylinder head before I could lift it straight out. Don't know if that will work. But if I can get it forward about 3/4-1" I think I can get the final bolt holding the Cylinder head to the hyd housing out using a wobbly and socket, that will let me lift the cover straight out. If I can't get the shifter cover to move forward, then I have wasted my time getting the first bolt out.

If nothing above works, fill the gear box with as much 80/90W as it will hold and hope it solves the problem. This is sounding better all the time. By the way, no where in my $95 manuals does it give the oil capacity of the gear box.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

Mahindra Shifter Update

I have given up on removing the offending cover bolt after ruining several wrenches by grinding them so they would fit over the cover bolt. There is no way the cover bolt is going to come out without lifting the hydraulic housing. The manuals show two different style shifter covers, one is a 2 piece unit the other a single piece. I have the single piece cover, which is illustrated in the Chassis Manual, The 2 piece cover is shown in the Engine Manual. I did find a statement in the Engine Manual saying “This arrangement (the 2 piece cover) enables the removal of shifter unit with out disturbing the hydraulic housing”. The Chassis Manual under Transmission Removal says “Remove the Hydraulic Lift Housing complete." This confirms that there is no way in hell the shifter cover will come off without first removing the hydraulic housing. AAARGG!!!

OK, it is “bullet biting” time. I decided to replace the xmission oil and hope this would allow me to move the tractor in the workshop after removing the attachments and disconnecting the bucket. I also finally discovered the oil level port on the right hand side of the xmission housing under a clump of baked on mud. I removed the oil level plug and oil came pouring out. Got that plug back in and put a 5 gal bucket under the drain and removed the plug. When it finally stopped, I had 11 gal of milky oil in 3 buckets !!!!!!

The oil had collected a good bit of moisture and obviously needed replacement. I had the oil changed by the local dealer (now out of business) when I purchased the tractor used. The only thing I can think of is that someone forgot to drain the xmission before adding the new oil. I guess that’s preferable to draining the oil and forgetting to put new oil in!!

The xmission took about 4.5 gal of new oil before it started to come out the oil level hole. I plugged the hole and put another ½ gal, bringing it to 5 gal. Cranked the engine and waited, the noise was gone! Then I put it in gear and moved it to a place where I could remove the attachments and bucket. Still no noise. I then drove it around the yard for a few minutes and it shifted and drove OK. Tried several gears and after about 5 min shut it down to ponder the situation. I am thinking that the gears were almost or completely covered by oil, preventing them from slinging an adequate amount of oil up onto the shifter rail mechanism, allowing it to run without enough lubrication. The Hi/Lo lever was always hard to shift (now can’t get it to shift out of high) and never could get it to shift into 5th gear. So I do have a shifter problem and will have to remove the hydraulic unit at sometime so I can pull the shifter unit and correct that, but for now I am hoping I can tractor is usable enough to at least do my bush hogging.

One other item, after putting the new 80W/90W oil in, the tractor tends to creep forward when the clutch is released even if it is in neutral. Push in on the clutch and it stops, release the clutch and you can hear engine load down a slight bit and it starts to very slowly creep forward. The only thing I can think of is the new 80W/90W is heavy enough to allow some viscous coupling between the gears. The manual says to use 80W or 90W with a minimum temp of 32 deg F. This may go away when the oil heats up but will have to wait and see because I don’t want to spend another $100 to buy lighter weight gear oil right now.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

Transmission Still Making Noise

I celebrated too soon. Took a “victory” lap this morning with the tractor picking up debris left from Alberto but after about 15 minutes the transmission began making noise again, sounds like something is running dry. If you let it cool down for about 15-20 minutes, it will run OK for a little while, then it starts again. I’ve finally accepted that the hydraulic housing has to come off so I can remove the shifter cover. So I disconnected the bucket hydraulic lines, which have “quick disconnects” (that is an oxymoron, nothing quick about it) but had to reconnect them because I forgot to lower the bucket, and then disconnect them again. By the time this was done, the transmission had cooled down sufficiently to let me pull the tractor into the workshop.

One question: Does anyone know if I have to drain the hydraulic fluid before removing the unit? I cant see a gasket shown in any of the service manuals, but would hate to loosen it and dump hydraulic oil all over the floor.



Will update again when I finally get a look inside the xmission housing.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

I seem to recall you have dry brakes. If so, jack and block the tractor's rear drive wheels up, and make sure it is in two wheel drive, when it is making the noise. Secure the tractor so it cannot move, then put it in neutral and turn the rear wheels forward, one at a time, and listen to the brake housings. The problem may be one of the brake actuators. 

Not sure about the dry brakes, but the wet brakes use an actuator that consists of two plates that have ball bearings on ramps, so when the tractor moves in any direction and the brakes are depressed, the balls roll up the ramps, the actuators expand and lock the brake discs. If the actuators or discs wear too much, the balls drop out and make a real racket of grinding if one or more gets partially caught and rotates where it can scrub metal.

Normally if there is something in the transmission that makes a grinding noise, it will be noisy when cold and up to operating temperature.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

RC- Thanks for the reply. I think I have the world's oldest 575. It was originally purchased in 1996. The brakes are fully mechanical, cable activated with 2 disks on both sides of an actuator disk assembly. Nothing fancy, also not very effective. I have replaced all 4 friction disks several years ago and that did not improve the performance. I originally thought I had a dragging brake because occasionally I would feel something holding the tractor back and making noise. Putting it in reverse and then back to first would free it up most of the time, but I could never find anything amiss with the brakes. The same thing seems to be happening now except worse, makes a noise and you can feel something holding the tractor back

I'm pretty certain that it is somewhere in the gear box now because, after the noise starts and I drive it back to the barn, white smoke/steam starts to come out around the gear shift lever. I attributed that to the water in the oil because it does not smell like burning oil. But that does indicate something is getting hot in the gear box. Taking the shifter off would allow me to see if there is anything obviously amiss inside.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Okay, finally was able to post again.

The smoke it a tell. I suspect the bearing that joins the input shaft to the main shaft in the transmission has galled. If so, you will need to split the tractor and pull the input shaft and inspect that bearing. The top of the transmission will need to come off too.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

RC-

Thanks for your insight. I have been having trouble with the site the past few days. First was getting an "invalid certificate" error. Now I have trouble posting using my FireFox browser, have to revert to my old Internet Explorer to post.

I am ready to lift the hydraulic unit off the tractor to get it out of the way so I can remove the shifter cover. Had to build 4x4 frame to be able to lift the cover with my come-along. Plan on doing that tomorrow.

Splitting the tractor is a no go for me, I'm an 81 year old one man band and don't think it would be wise to tackle splitting this tractor. Have split my '55 Ford 850 several times but the Mahindra will be an order of magnitude more difficult. I will have to find someone with better facilities and equipment to do that job. My other concern is where to get the parts.

When I get the cover off I will update you.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

I believe MahindraUSA has parts for the tractor.

I am having the same browser issues.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

After staring at the tractor for a couple of hours, I have decided that my original goal to lift the shifter cover is not going to do any good. No matter what I see, the tractor will have to be split to fix the problem and I am not set up to do that. So I will have to find someone willing to undertake the job.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Try Craigslist and a couple of tractor dealers, and see if you can find a retired mechanic that does these projects for a little pin money.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

OK, found an old dealer that sold Mahindra's up until about 10 years ago. He is a one man shop so this is going to be slow, but his shop is full of Mahindra's. Hauled my old 575 to his shop and put it in his queue.
Will update you when he starts on it.


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

Joe the tractor guy finally got the got the tractor hyd cover off and found that the sliding gear coupling was frozen on the shaft and would not budge. So he split the tractor and it is bad. The bearing for the sliding gear was now where to be found and the shaft was had been galled so badly it is not usable. Now for the bad news. The shaft is only sold as a matched set with the differential gears! To remove the differential gears you first must remove the brakes and the 2 bull gears. To get the bull gears out you have slide each axle out to give clearance to get the diff gears out. Then you can pull the spline shaft out. AAARRRRGGG.

He is now trying to source the replacement shaft and differential gears, coupling and msc bearings/seals. The local Mahindra dealer lists the PN's but his list for the shaft and diff gears does not give a price, which means you really don't want to know! So we are just waiting for the parts price before proceeding.

In the meantime I am still fighting my old Ford 850. While bush hogging it developed a miss under load. Checking with a timing light showed cylinders 1 & 2 are firing only intermittently.

Other than that, things are going just fine.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Run the transmission low on oil?


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

RC - 

Running it low on oil seems to be the logical answer, but I can't see how that could have happened. Hsd oil changed when I purchased it used in 2006 and that was about 10 years ago. Since then I have checked it using a wooden stick in the fill hole. Always seemed ok. After this problem started I finally located the oil level plug on the side of the case and removed it. Oil came pouring out, all over the floor before I could get the plug back in. I felt like the Little Dutch boy with his finger in the ****. I eventually drained 11 gal out of the case! So it definitely was not low on oil, however the oil was milky from absorbing moisture from high levels of humidity in Alabama air (never had this problem when I lived in Utah). Anyway I replaced the oil and brought the level up to the fill plug on the case, about 5 gal but the problem had progressed too far by that time. 

So I can't see how it could have run low on oil at least not in the 10 yrs I have owned it, but could see the possibility of moisture causing the problem. The chassis manual shows a "grey iron bushing" inside the part that seized. Could the moisture have caused this bushing to start to rust? Whatever caused the problem caused a big one.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Oil with water is as harmful as running them low. Water creates pits in the bearing races, then they lock up and chew the bearing until it seizes. 

Borrowed a grain truck for harvest from my father-in-law 30 years ago. Was in compound pulling a full load of wheat up a hill and it was if it hit the brakes. Thought the brakes had dynamited and locked. But not.

The mainshaft seized to the tailshaft at the bearing that joins them. Had to pull driveshaft and get someone to hold down the clutch to get towed it to my shop. Pulled the transmission to rebuild it, and found water in the oil. Never showed up as milky when checked before use, because the truck was parked 11 months of the year which allowed the oil and water to separate, then the oil to float on the water and look clean. Ended up having to replace the entire transmission because every bearing was damaged, and two had spun in the case.

Father-in-law got a new transmission, and I got a lesson on changing transmission oil every two years.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

Is that the case with automatics that sit for long periods of time as in a year at a time?


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

No, ATF has an additive that discolors if it becomes contaminated with water. If it is discolored, then change it before it destroys the treated paper frictions.

Exception being some older Allison transmissions. Some used an oil similar to universal tractor fluid, and did not have the additive that discolors. Best to just do an oil sampling on an Allison if the oil is more than a few years old.

I had a Terex/Euclid 82-50 that sat for years at a time. Low hours, Allison transmission, never changed the transmission oil in ten years that I had it. Just did oil analysis and used it once in a while to clear ground. 

I have an Allison in an IH medium truck, just change that fluid every three years, as it is a fluid with the additive and treat it like automotive auto transmissions..


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## ErnieChilton (Jul 25, 2014)

It now has been over 6 months and my since my 575 went down with a galled bearing on the spline shaft Could not even find a PN for the parts and Mahindra dealer could/would not locate the parts. Finally after months of looking "bit the bullet" and bought an old 575 with engine problems but gear box works fine, expensive solution but the only one available. Plan is to split them both at the transmission and replace the rear half of my original tractor with the rear half of the other one. Then bolt the 2 remaining halves together until I can find the parts to fix it.

Now have hit another Mahindra parts fiasco, ordered 2 oil seals (PN's 001081689R93 and 005552621R91) on Sept . Have been waiting a month and finally they came in. But the seal they sent for 001081689R3 was not the correct seal and will not fit. Now the correct seal has been re-ordered. At this rate I will be lucky to get my tractor back before Christmas!!!!

Once I get the primary running, I will try to find a crankshaft machine shop that can build up the spline shaft and regrind it to specs. Maybe I can then make the parts tractor usable.

My advice, "Dont't buy a Mahindra Tractor unless you also but a second one for spare parts" !!!


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Good luck Ernie, hope your plans go well, a lot of work, but worth it in the end.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

If you have a bearing supply house locally you can take the old seals in and have them match them. They need the old ones to obtain the sizes needed.


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