# Help with Paint



## aegt5000 (Feb 22, 2004)

Along with numerous other topics, I am clueless about auto paint.
I painted the Bolens 1250 with Rust-Oleum and I’m really disappointed 
with how easily it scrapes right off the Rust-Oleum primer.
The factory paints are much tougher. Where can I get some
automotive type paints that can air-dry and offer better results ?


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## guest2 (Dec 27, 2003)

Check the local yellow pages for automotive body supplies. A good choice would be PPG DAU single stage urethane. You could use DBU which is a basecoat/clearcoat system, but it would have a wet look and clear is kinda expensive. ICI is also a good paint but pricey. Dupont makes some good paint also like chroma base.
Overall, PPG is probably the easist to work with at a reasonable price. The important thing is to try and use a "system",. That is one brand of primer, reducer, basecoat( or single stage color) and clearcoat and hardener.
I used rustoleum on my 1050 fender pan with excellent results. What I did was da the pan down to the metal and used a self-etching primer. Sanded that with 400 wet or dry paper and then topcoated with rustoleum. The important thing about spraying rustoleum is to only use acetone as thinner. Spray a few coats 3-4 with enough flash time in between to allow for a tacky surface for the next coat about 5-15 minutes depending on outside temp. An ultraviolet heat lamp works great to bake the finish otherwise you'll need to let it dry overnight.


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## guest2 (Dec 27, 2003)

The other thing to keep in mind about rustoleum (or any straight enamel) is that without baking it won't be fully cured for at least 30 days. That's why enamel paint jobs were never polished years ago.


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## guest2 (Dec 27, 2003)

Another thing to keep in mind is that auto paint contains isocynates, pretty bad stuff! You'll need a good respirator at least, never use a paper mask. This can be absorbed through the skin especially in confined areas so use an exhuast fan carefully so as to not pull dirt into the paint but to exchange the air. The paint will have a strong odor and may not go over well with any close neighbors. Also avoid having anything that you don't want overspray on close by, get some cheap plastic drop cloths and cover anything you can't move. If your garage is connected to the house you may want to find another place to spray. The smell will penetrate the whole house.
The last thing you want is a neighbor calling the EPA, especially in the metro NY area where you are required to have a spray booth. Fines can be steep.


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## aegt5000 (Feb 22, 2004)

sixchows…

I used Rust-Oleum over their red metal primer.
Only used a small amount of acetone to thin.
The primer is indestructible and a real PITA to get off.
But the top coats (2) come off the primer with the 
slightest scrape, even after about 2 weeks dry time.

Differences: I waited 48 hours between the 2 top coats
Do you think that would make a difference ?
You have an autobody background, yet you did not 
Use an automotive paint, why did you use the rust-oleum ?


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## guest2 (Dec 27, 2003)

I never really liked that red primer that's why I used a self etching primer which is an automotive paint. The reason I topcoated with rustoleum was because it's just a plain enamel paint similar to what was used on most things before the catalized paints were introduced. It's also less harmful and less likely to cause a problem if someone reports you for spraying as it is considered more of a "household" item rather than "for professional use only by trained personnel using proper equipmnet" It's also cheap enough and readily available so touch up doesn't involve taking a part of the tractor and leaving it at a paint store until they get around to matching something. The rustoleum on the fender has survived the winter ice and snow and the usual branches that scrape against it with no noticeable scratches. I also like "original" looking finishes (you know that purist thing ) so to have a high gloss wet look would be out of place as far as I'm concerned although extremely durable. When you see a restored car from the 60's with basecoat/clearcoat ,as perfect as the job may be, it just doesn't look "right"


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## guest2 (Dec 27, 2003)

The other thing was I used maybe 40 percent acetone to 60 percent paint. I appled about 4 thin wet coats. The acetone helps the top coat bite into the primer.


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## aegt5000 (Feb 22, 2004)

I used as little acetone as possible, 10% max.
Ok I'll try the rust-oleum again but this time
40% acetone, 4 top coats.

Thanks for your help


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## guest2 (Dec 27, 2003)

You might be better off with an automotive paint if your onto something where you're starting from scratch. Why not find a local jobber and talk it over with them. Expect to spend a few hundred in paint though. A qt. of base can be around $50-$60 and then add a gal of primer, 2 different reducers, a fast for prime and a slower for base and clear, hardener for the clear, and the clear.
What's the plan for the rustoleum that's scratching so easily? Are you going to sand it back down to the primer? If that red primer is holding good to the metal, you could get some self etching primer in spray cans and put 2-3 coats over it and then sand that and topcoat it. I wouldn't try putting any auto paint on the red rustoleum primer.


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## aegt5000 (Feb 22, 2004)

Clueless :dazed: Clueless :dazed: Clueless :dazed: Clueless :dazed: 

I talked to a tech at Rust-Oleum customer service this morning.
He told me if I had read the primer instructions I would have
seen it should not be used on bare metal. The primer I used is
for rusty metal, it contains fish oil that is intended to penetrate 
and neutralize rust. If applied to clean, bare metal, the fish oil
has nothing to mix with and rises to the surface of the primer 
making it difficult for the top coat to bond to the primer.
He said the condition will get better with time, but it could take
months for the system to fully cure. 

I would have to disassemble the entire tractor to sand and repaint
the black chassis parts, so I’ll just let them cure. I have the hood
and fender pan sandblasted from the second 1250 so I’ll paint and
use them on this 1250. I was thinking of using them anyway since
they are in much better shape than the originals.

Like I said in the prior post, I’ll give the Rust-Oleum another shot.
The tech also agreed the 40% thinned 4 coat process would bond
much better to the primer than a 10% thinned 2 coat process.


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## guest2 (Dec 27, 2003)

aegt5000
Did he suggest another of their primers? I have used a grey rustoleum primer in the past and it worked well but needs to dry overnight. Try some lacquer based hi-build or self-etching spray cans or you could go the automotive route with dupont 131s fill n sand hi build primer. Any of these will dry within a half hour and can be sanded and topcoated. The acetone in the rustoleum will adhere to these also since their is acetone in lacquer.


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## leolav (Sep 16, 2003)

A good automotive jobber in your area is S & I in Staten Island. They carry a full line of paints and primers and just about anything else you may need.


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