# massey ferguson 165 hydraulics



## bsogorka

Hello, I am new to tractors and excited about buying my first tractor (massey ferguson 165 diesel.) I have a small lawn biz and bought this one owner, small town tractor from a town. It sat for 5 years without being used. I completely trust the town mechanic that it all worked. I got her running after some tinkering etc. she runs great, but none of the hydraulics move at all. the dipstick on the side of trans which I believe is hydrualic fluid is filled up and looks perfectly clean. The town mechanic says for sure the hydraulics worked and they used a bushog on it till the day it was retired. As I said it sat for 5 years unused. I engage pto and it spins but pull levers and nothing happens.. Maybe I just don't know what I am doing. I am mechanically inclinded but not familiar with this. the hydraulic arms etc. do not move at all.. ???


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## Hoodoo Valley

Well first off, welcome to the forum! Do the hydraulics work if you engage the PTO? I know some tractors have the hydraulic pump running from the PTO. Also could be a clgged filter or kinked line in the siphon. Any leaks at all that you noticed?


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## bsogorka

Hello, thanks sir, the hydraulics do absolutely nothing even with pto engaged. I am checking oil with dipstick on right side (passenger side) of tractor and it is clean fluid and filled to crosshatch pattern on stick. Is there any other place to check fluid maybe on machine? There are no leaks that I really see and sitting on concrete for 2 weeks with no oil spills etc. ??

Thanks


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## bsogorka

owe, massey ferguson 165 diesel model tractor, early 1970's


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## Worzel

I seem to remember the 165 has a constantly running hydraulic pump - if so the PTO does not need to be engaged.
Is there a diverting/isolator valve on the top cover around the seat area? If there is it may be by-passing the oil away from the rear hitch arms.
If the tractors been sitting it could be a sticking valve in the pump - the pump is fairly easily accessed, so a repair should not be too costly.
Here is a link to a UK site selling a 165 pump repair kit - can't help with a US site but there must a kit available.
MF Hydraulic Pumps, Massey Ferguson Hydraulic Pumps | Buy Now at FarmingParts.com
By-the-way you will see there is a MkI and MkII MF165. If you will need to know which you have, see here http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/7/4/746-massey-ferguson-165.html
1965-67 = MkI. 1968 on = MkII
Hope this helps.
Bye
Worzel
I would love a 165 one day


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## docsteve

my 135 has that valve and it diverts oil to the front end loader . the rear arms will not work without switching the valve - located in front of the seat - on the top cover. Does it look like it had a loader on it before ? The valve is small (going by memory here) with a black knob ( at least it is on mine) , and the hose for the spool valve comes off of it .


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## westwood

on a 165 with multipower it is a bear to fix the pump the tractor needs to be split. I'll bet he does not have the levers correctly positioned. I had to replace my pump since it sat and the rings stuck and shattered (lucky staying in place) and the 3pt lift would not hold anything up after warm but it would still lift.


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## shona13

Hi bsogorka.
The massey 165 did not have Multi power the 168 did.
Any way check under the seat next to and behind your right knee when sitting on the tractor If fitted the selector valve which has been said directs the oil to either the three point linkage or the external hydraulics (Note not both at the same time either one or the other) like a loader or other hydraulic equipment .
If it does not have a selector valve With the engine running ,put the position control lever in the transport position and the draft lever in the up position and the hydraulics should lift to the transport position which is a little bit before all the way up, If nothing happens turn the engine of and remove the sideplate on the gearbox this is the one with the response lever on it the plate is next to your right heel when sitting on the tractor,five bolts and one countersunk head screw,it is best to remove the footplate bracket first and get it out of the way,take the bottom bolt out last then remove the cover and refit the bolt loose to stop the oil coming out.
With the engine stopped move the position lever up and down you should see the control lever moving back and forth,the lever operates the control valve via a small roller if you put your finger on the roller ,the roller and the lever should remain in contact at all times if you find that the lever moves back and the roller does not follow it this means that the control valve is sticking if it is try moving it back and forth with your finger and see if you can free it up failing this the pump will have to be removed to fix the control valve .
Every hydraulic pump on a massey I have been asked to refit for someone who has removed the pump themselves required either a new control lever or some other part.
For pump repairs may i suggest you use a trained Mechanic it may save you money in the long run as it is very easy to misdiagnose a problem .
Note:The hydraulic pump is constantly driven the only time it is not is when the pto clutch is operated that is when the clutch pedal is pushed all the way down.
I hope you find this information helpfull.
Regards 
Hutch.


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## Bedford24

Your PTO Clutch could be messed up - The Hydraulic Pump runs off of the PTO side of the Clutch - if it were ever stuck and they kept running it it destroyed the Clutch/ or the splines on the shaft - to check - take plate with 4 bolts off under the clutch housing to see if it is turning - You can have the PTO turn and it still be messed up you won't know till you put the PTO under a Load -oil could be on the clutch disks etc... other than this it would then be the pump or even the lift cylinder rings under the Top Cover (under seat bolts to Differential Housing.)


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## shona13

G.Day bsogorka
Indeed as bedford 24 has said the hydraulic pump is driven via the pto clutch .it has also already been said that the pto turns when engaged this tells us that the pto clutch is driving the pump .
To test the integrity of the pto clutch IT IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE BEFORE YOU START THAT THE ENGINE STOP IS OUT THAT IS IN THE STOPPED POSITION AND KEPT THERE .
FIRST ENGAGE THE PTO WITH THE ENGINE STOPPED YOU MAY HAVE TO ROCK THE PTO SHAFT BY HAND TO ENGAGE, IT WILL BE ENGAGED WHEN YOU CANNOT TURN BY HAND GET A LARGE ADJUSTABLE SPANNER OR A STILSON AND PUT ON THE SPLINES OF THE PTO again make sure there is no chance of anyone starting the engine, with help get another person ADULT to fully depress the clutch that is press it all the way down to the floor and at the same time try to turn the pto shaft if the pto is properly adjusted the shaft will turn easily ,next let the clutch out that is take your foot of and again try to turn the pto it should not turn if this is the case you can safely say the pto clutch is good .
I f as suggested you take the inspection cover of the bottom of the bellhousing all you will see is the pto adjusting bolts and the release bearing ,you will not be able to see the pto driven plate ,.
The lift cylinder has three cast iron piston rings and they most often leak oil if when the hydraulics are working normally you would raise the three point linkage with an implement attached ,leave it raised and stop the engine watch the implement and see if it is slowly going down ,if it is the lift cylinder could be leaking oil . Remove the sideplate the one with the dipstick and the response lever on it get a mirror and torch and looking inside you should see oil dripping from the piston up top .
I modify the lift piston by removing it ,with the lift cover removed you will see a small allen grub screw holding the lift ram in place undo the grubscrew and the Donkeys **** will pull out, remove the piston ring farthest from the oil side of the piston and machine the piston ring grove .
The dimensions are .1875" Deep and . 281 " Wide this modified grove will accomodate a 3/16" SECTION " O"Ring,
you will notice that the grove is the same depth as the diameter of the "o" ring this reduces wear on the o ring and it will seal with the hydraulic pressure behind it.
Note the hydraulic pump can also bypass oil and cause the same symptoms ,when i overhaul a pump i modify the piston at the same time and i can say i am one of the very few massey Mechanics that can claim the hydraulics wont creep down overnight. Note when you have completed testing drop the hydraulics to the ground and make safe never leave any machine unattended with the hydraulics up.
Interesting discussion and no Malice intended it is great fun to communicate with others who have similar interests.
Again I hope this helps all who read .
Best regards See Ya 
Hutrch.


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## Bedford24

Thanks shona13 - I forget to mention safety as sometimes we hope a person has that in mind - also if you need a repair manual that is detailed and can go along with what shona13 is saying here it is https://www.allpartsstore.com/ItemD...01&SearchItem=1&TextSearch=&ItemNumber=SMMF27 - alos this site is good source for parts shipped to you.


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## docsteve

shona13
You seem very qualified on these tractors . So tell me , can I install a 9 gpm oil pump ( for the multi-power ) that has a line that comes out of the left sidecover (factory stuff I see in the manual ) and run that for my front end loader and use the existing one for the three point hitch -and be able to run both at the same time ??? I realize this would mean splitting the tractor to install the pump . I want to run a snowblower on the rear and be able to use my front end loader at the same time . 
My front end loader is terribly slow right now using the ( I believe ) 4 gpm pump . Could you supply me part numbers that I would need for the conversion ??? My Massey dealer wont even look for me . He says there was no kit , so it can't be done . 
Docsteve


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## shona13

G,Day docsteve
Yes it is possible to fit the auxiliary hydraulic pump to the tractor But the pump is very expensive ,plus you need to buy the mounting bracket that fits on the main pump ,pipes to suit, special nuts to hold the pump to the support bracket ,long story short I would fit a utility type gear pump to the P.T.O You can buy them from hydraulic suppliers and they are not that expensive, depending on which type of loader you have fitted By that I mean the diameter of the lift rams ,Generally 10 GPM is about right.
Then all you have to do is fit the quick coupling to the pto.two hydraulic hoses one the suction hose can go onto one of the transmission drain plugs and the other to the front end loader control spool just make sure the spool has a releif valve fitted and a return hose from the control spool to the tapping point under the seat ,left hand side also you can tee in the main hydraulic pump to the loader via a selector valve which has been discussed before in other threads.the selector valve fits under the seat ,remove the hydraulic cap the one with the two bolts holding it down ,making sure you refit the standpipe back in the correct spot ,this will allow you to use the three point linkage as per normal plus give the loader a boost when needed.
the other plus is if the pto type hydraulic pump plays up two minutes and its of and a new one is on No splitting the tractor etc. This would be my advise.
P.S I forgot to ask what the weather is like up your way .
I hope this helps 
Regards 
Hutch.


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## docsteve

shona13
Hutch , and I could still use my pto to power my snowblower ??
docsteve
weather is still quite nice , igloos are firming up ( no, really going just below freezing most nights and about 40f in the day .)


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## Bedford24

Docsteve, I have seen these PTO Driven Pumps in various kits and even seen people use their drain/fill holes to tap the internal hydraulic (Diff/Tran Case) as the resovoir. The tractors of this period and your average tractor sold today (60HP and less) all have open center valve and pump systems as they are cheaper and the most these tractors will have to operate is the lift or loader which is cylinder operations not motor - the larger tractors have controllable closed center valve and pumps systems to operate Hydraulic Motors - to get the full power needed to power Hydraulic Constant Run motors like found on Skidsteer attachments like front mount snowthrowers requires a minimum 45HP... the 135 new is at 38HP, while your older and worn you can figure you have about 31HP.... Not having the correct Motor to Pump setup will cause excessive Heat and damage the pump or motor... during this era the tractors purchased for these type of equipment use such as by the Dept. of Trans. in many States used the larger tractors but had Engine "Parasite" Hydraulic Pumps and seperate Resoviors... Even today Alamo makes alot Hydraulically driven equipment for DOT and still mounts a seperate Pump/Resovior system so as not to damage the on board hydraulics of the tractor from the excessive heat created. What I am saying is you have alot to think about and alot of information a greedy Commissioned Sales Person at a Dealership might NOT tell you to sell you the snowthrower if it is Hydraulically driven. When I get a chance I will check your options at work and try to get you the most affordable and reasonable part numbers. More than likely if available it will be after market because the age of your machine - shona13 can correct me or add anything I left off.. on the using the tractor's resovior - not recomended due to the heat seen alot of trouble - some PTO Pump Systems (expensive) have mounting kits with feed through PTO shafts like the OverRun Clutches..... Hope this helps?


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## docsteve

I realize the gpm demands of a hydraulic snowblower ( way more than this tractor will provide - like 16gpm ) . I was wanting to set up a PTO driven snowblower on the rear , using the stock hydraulics to lift and lower the 3pt hitch , and use the aux hydraulics to run my front end loader .My loader has twin rams and is extremely slow with the stock 4gpm "furgeson internal pump " . I do not want to have to switch from front to rear hydraulics while cleaning the driveway . 
I see in my manual that the 9gpm pump used for the powershift trans ( in a 165 )has a line that runs out through the pto control side cover ( on the left ) and is used for aux hydraulics . I thought this setup would be perfect as it would be twoice as fast on the front end loader as it is now. It would be a neat ,clean install . 
I am an auto mech and would have no problem splitting the tractor myself and installing . I see these 9gpm pumps going for about 400.00 . I'm a fussy old guy and don't care if I spend a thousand dollars to make a nice clean system. 
docsteve


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## shona13

Hi Docsteve.
Now that we know a wee bit more ,Let me carry the story on .
If your snowblower is pto driven and you have a standard 6 or 8 speed transmission ,the snowblower like all other p.t.o. driven implements will operate as normal that is ,using the three point linkage controls (Position control) in this case, the pto will rotate as long as the pto clutch is engaged and the three point linkage will operate , as you know all will stop when you push the clutch pedal all the way down to disengage the pto, as will the front end loader ,it will stop lifting.
To fit an auxiliary hydraulic pump the factory one is a dual element pump that is it is two gear pumps bolted together one for multi power and one for aux hydraulics.
To fit the auxilliary pump to a non multipower tractor you will require as I have said a pump mounting bracket assembly with the drive gears inside the pump and the pipes including the sealing washers that take the hydraulic pipes through the pto side plate, you will also require the pto sideplate with the holes for the hydraulic pipes to go through, also the transmission spacer to accomodate the aux pump,gaskets to suit ,longer shafts etc .
In my last post I did not go into that much detail as I thought that would have been enough information to help in deciding what you could do.
There are two ways to skin this cat ,one would be to either buy a wrecked multi power tractor and rob the parts you need and sell the rest to recoup the cost of the wreck bearing in mind that the aux pump is aluminium and could most likely be worn out.
Or look around for a good tractor with multipower and swap or sell.
You can still add a Selector valve under the seat to boost your front end loader performance,see other threads .
I have not experienced the hydraulic oil over heating on a Massey The fact that the gearbox holds 6gallons may help in keeping the oil cool.
At the moment I am restoring a Massey 178 Multi Power with a massey front end loader and a home made seven foot wide scrub clearing rake ,the owner has cleared most of his property with this outfit and when I checked the hydraulics they were in reasonable condition for having done 4000Hours,They will of course be overhauled as the tractor is being brought back to as new condition .
I wont bother to go looking for part numbers because I know that most of them are obsolete here in Western Australia.
If you like go into ebay and hunt for a good spare parts munual this may help in your quest.
I hope this information helps yourself and other members .
Good luck .
See Ya 
Hutch.


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## Bedford24

Hope this helps. If you need any info shona13 let me know too.. the attached are the hydraulic parts shona13 is referring to. AGCO owns Sparex and any Massey Ferguson Dealer can order these parts. AGCO has bought a couple of companies they have licensed to continue manufacturing parts for them. I am glad to say they probably have the oldest tractor lines parts are still available for having work for John Deere and now with Massey Ferguson... If you need anything let me know.


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## shona13

Hi Mr Bedford .
Thanks for the information Although I have Sparex access I dont have the list of parts available like the one you posted .
Nice work And Thanks Maybe I can go to the U.S.and buy parts over there.
Regards 
Hutch.


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## docsteve

Thanks so much for this information . But now I have 20 more questions . Do you know what spline I would need ?? My tractor is a 1970 135 gas . I knew about the mounting bracket and such , but thought that it just mounted on the front of the furgeson pump , and the shaft went through the drive spline . Are you saying I need to move the ferg pump rearward , change the shaft to a longer one , and remount the furgeson pump ?? I also did'nt realize that the aux hyd pump was two pumps , one for multipower and the second for aux hydraulics . I should just get the multipower one then and use it for my aux ?? Do you know the actual GPM of these pumps ( the aux manual I have said 9 gpm for aux pump , but gave no info for the multipower side of it . Its great to see some highly knowlegable people here . I sure wasn't getting any help at the dealers . 
Also , I kind of hi-jacked this thread - sorry . 
steve


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## Bedford24

A couple of questions - you show Alberta as your area - is your MF 135 a UK version? I will try to remember to check tommorow if we have an actual MF repair manual or the IT - My boss didn't buy the Dealership til 1984 and maybe we have the original. Our Parts Lookup System has the new Model Service Manuals but not the older... Also, MF 135 was available on a limited basis with Multi-Power. I found an old brochure that shows this and explains with a basic drawing the set up for the Auxiliary Pump Set up.. Also, you say your is a 1970? What is the Serial Number? 
You near a range it could be 10 spline or 21 Spline??? You can look up your own parts here -agcopartsbooks.com select guest viewer after installing the SVG viewer.
Here are some great sites to Hydraulics | Vintage Tractor Engineer
Old Ferguson Tractors - Ferguson Resources
Hutch - if you need some info or help let me know - if we can figure out how to process an order for you we will try - had never thought about how to process a credit card from there to here but could find out - what my thought is doesn't FEDEX claim we can ship anywhere in the world and they take care of customs? If you need info though let me know - I work close with AGCO and I am close to the AGCO Parts Guys here maybe if I have to I can find out about them getting more Sparex to you guys???


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## Bedford24

File up Loader not Working will try tomorrow!


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## docsteve

My tractor was made in the USA . serial number 9A104575 . it is a 135 gas . I have been looking in the agco online catalogue . Thats where I saw there were different splines . It also shows a gear for the aux pump that the other attachment didn't . I can't find a number for the pto shift cover for aux hydraulics either. A kit would be such a bonus , but I know its too old for anyone to make up one . My aunt bought this tractor new , and its only got about 125 or 130 hours on it . Always been shedded . Looks like new . Thats why I'll spend the time and money to make a better hydraulic system . 
doc


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## shona13

G.Day to you in Canada.
The way we could tell which hydraulic pump/System the tractor had was look at the hydraulic control quadrant,there are two securing bolts which secure the quadrant to the lift cover .
If it is a mark two pump it will have Spacer sleeves between the two quadrants,position and Draft.(COARSE SPLINE)
If it has a mark three pump it will have two hexagonal retaining bolts( FINE SPLINE).
This may be of some help.
Good luck 
Regards 
Hutch.


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## docsteve

Hutch
got any pics?? I can't get out there till the weekend . I'm not quite understanding where to see the differences . Thanks
doc


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## shona13

G.Day Docsteve .
No worries I will take some pictures tomorrow anfd post them in the evening.
Regards 
hutch.


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## shona13

G,Day docsteve
No worries I will take some pictures tomorrow and post them tomorrow evening.
Regards Hutch


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## docsteve

Hutch
find pics for me ??
docsteve


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## shona13

Hi Docsteve 
I have a massey 178 Multi power in for overhaul and I am about to split the tractor and remove the hydraulic pump assembly In the next few days 
I will take some pictures and post them on the site .
Regards 
Hutch. 
P.S. Be patient ,things dont go fast down here in Our great state of Western Australia W.A. !!! Wait Awhile!!!


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## docsteve

Hutch
Perfect . Couldn't ask for better than that . I see lots of other people are interested in this , as the views on this thread are very high . Thanks
doc


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## shona13

G,Day Doc .
I have created two new photo albums .
One is the hook up of the hydraulic hoses to the front end loader ,this is a 148 mechanically it is the same tractor as the 135.
The other is the 178 pump removal and stripdown again the mechanics of it are the same.
If you look at the 148 pictures you will see the spacer I mentioned in the transmission it is about seven inches long.
You asked the question is it possible to use the auxiliary pump independently to power the loader the answer is yes ,again if you tee it through the selector valve under the seat you can boost the loader if you want at any time ,same as the one in the photo .
Incidently this tractor is my next restoration project ,I will post photo,s when it is finished.
I Hope this Helps.
Regards To all See Ya 
Hutch.


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## Bedford24

Thanks from me Hutch - I love to archive information like this - the guys that do this hands on like you on this nice older tractors are either getting out or pretty much retired these days around here and dealers like us charge too much to get the kind of modification work you still do - maybe you can start a thread on what some old timers have talked about "Super Charging" with the Turbo Kits that used to be available if you know about this- only thing I have discovered is the same company that made our Dyno and belongs to ALAMO now - M&W Gear Company used to do these kits - thanks again for your dedication to these old classics!


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## docsteve

Hutch
What a great photo layout . I can really see almost everything . Thanks so much for taking the time to post these . It reaffirms to me that this would be a great way to boost my hydraulics . I do have questions . Is the ferg pump actually mounted in there somehow, or does it just hang on the shafts ?? I alse see alignment dowels on the ferg pump ,and matching holes in the aux gear drive assy , but dont see any actual attachment . To add the drive system , just replace the original shaft connector sleeve with the gear drive assy ? When trying to find a part number for the pto cover ( on AGCO website ) , it never lists what type of pto is used. My tractor has "engine ,neutral ,ground " selections . If yours is the same , could you give me the part number on the cover , and inner and outer shifters ( as they may be different than mine because of the aux hydraulics ports in the cover ) . Would it be acceptable to plug the port that would go to the multipower , and just hook up the line for aux hydraulics?? 
I alse see that the adapter that bolts to the pto cover screws into the rear of the pump . Is this just a mounting ,or is it also a feedport ? I see now that it feeds the return oil back into the pump . 
Now to determine the shaft spline . If I understand correctly , the external way to tell is the length of the spacer between the lift cover and the controls . One type uses a seven inch spacer . How long a spacer does the other type use ? 

Once again I woud like to express my thanks and gratitude for the great pics and advise . Its very reassuring to see the layout in such clear photos . Unlike the manuals that have grainy , fuzzy pictures that really don't show enough . 

doc


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## docsteve

So , I was just looking in the agco online catalogue and I see that the pump in your pics actually has two sets of gears , so two separate circuits . So , I should buy the smaller pump with one set of gears for my tractor , or do you know if one side of the bigger pump has a bigger capacity that I should be using. If so , I obvioulsy cannot just plug off the other side . I suppose a relief vavle would work , but then the pump is at max output all the time . A down pipe back to the resivoir would maybe work also . Thoughts ??
doc


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## shona13

G,Day Doc.
Answer to question one.
The auxiliary pump mounting plates( one each side ) that is the plates that the gear train run in, the one nearest the pump has four holes that slide over the main pump assembly bolts these are the ones with the special nuts which have groves to accomodate circlips so the aux pump slides on to the main pump as suggested and held loosely in place by circlips,the main pump being driven through the aux pump as you said the drive gear replaces the standard drive coupling.
Question two .
The main pump is located by two" dowel Pegs",on your tractor you can see the pegs on the lower part of the outside casing they are say oval shape with two 5/16" studs and nuts There are no external aux pump locating dowels.
Question three .
All of the 100 series Masseys except those fitted with independent pto have the same pto cover,
as said ground which is driven by a gear mounted directly onto the differential input pinion,
this is for ground driven implements,some potato harvesters used ground pto the speed of the pto is relative to the ground speed of the tractor.
Neutral and Engine Pto which the sliding pto gear slides over the main hyd pump drive and connects both the pump and pto shaft together .
The pto drive gear is the same as the one fitted to your tractor.
question four .
If you fitted a dual element pump I would not plug the multipower port it would be best to fit a tube and divert the flow away from the main pump preferably towards the front and down.
Alternativly fit the single element aux pump.
The manifold you see is secured to the pto cover by four allen capscrews, these ports are the supply and return oil from the aux pump.

Question six.
The shaft spline is 98 % likely to be coarse ten teeth as there were very few 135,s with fine spline mark two pumps.
If You look at the hydraulic control Quadrant ,the one with the control levers on look where it bolts onto the cast ( two 3/8" bolts) tube that locates onto the lift cover, the two pressed metal quadrants one draft the other position /pressure control ,they are separated by spacer tubes say 1/2"diameter if it has Hexagonal spacers between them it has a fine spline pump.
I seemed to waffle on a bit but I could not think of another way to say what I said.Incidently
I am in the Middle of the ocean at present, I work for Woodside Energy as a Mechanical Technician on the Goodwyn Alpha Gas production platform Two weeks on and Three weeks of To play with tractors .
Part of my job here is to keep the boss sweet and to make sure the gas does not stop flowing.
Anyway Thats it for now.
Regards to all 
Hutch. 
P.S. I am glad you found the photographs of some help.


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## docsteve

Well, I printed the parts list and exploded view from agco , and faxed them to my dealer . Can you believe 2000.00 and that dosn't include the block that goes on the inside of the pto sidecover ( discontinued - not available ) . WOW . Guess I'll start phoning the tractor wreckers , and buy a pump off of ebay ( 400.00 less than what the dealer quoted - 868.00  ) . 
doc


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## shona13

G,Day doc
I found this website when i was surfing there are a few cheap masseys in there 
See Ya 
Hutch.
Used Tractors For Sale at TractorHouse.com: John Deere Tractors, used farm tractors and farm equipment, tractors for sale, Case IH, New Holland, Agco, Kubota


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## docsteve

Well
I guess I need a opinion from you tractor experts . I found a wrecker with the parts I need for adding an aux hydraulic system , but he says I am going to be sorely dissappionted with the results. Do you think my front end loaders lift speed will be increased greatly or not by running it on the aux hydraulic pump ?? I understand the numbers to be 4 gpm for the ferg pump and 9 gpm for the aux pump. Are these figures accurate ??? Am I wasting my time ?? Shona 13 -- you have used these - how well did they work ?? Any users advice appreciated . 
docsteve


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## shona13

Hi Doc 
Please find a copy of original Massey ferguson technical details ( in the public gallery ) , it took some diggin but I knew I had one somewhere ,here ya go.
I originally advised that you buy a massey with multipower already fitted ,this is one way to skin that cat we spoke of.
To offer advise on what machine would best suit your needs I would need to know what you expect it to do i.e. weight,terain how often you will use the machine to load or move things around .
As I say when asked ,remember the tractor was designed as an agricultural machine and not specifically a loader,by design it does not lend itself to lifting heavy weight over the front axle ,there are stability issues which cannot be ignored when using the loader over uneven surfaces for example.
I feel that the Massey 135/148 tractors although up to the task will, in my experience suffer premature wear of the ,front axle and components,clutch and hydraulic system . 
I have a M.F 148 loader in the workshop at the moment and I will try to take a video and post it later I will also measure the hydraulic cylinders and post details tomorrow .
This tractor is fitted with a Standard M.F. 40 loader you may be able to get details from your local Massey dealer.
Happy Days 
See Ya Hutch.


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## docsteve

All
My use will be very light . A little yard maint. in the summer and snow clearing in the winter. I was trying to level out some sand behind one of my sheds ( built up to the top of the grade beam and was touching the tin ) , and thats when the slow loader response came into play . The sand had piled up against the back wall over the last 20 years and I was trying to shave it down a bit . Very slow response makes it very difficult to an un-experienced operator . Thats about it . Just tinkering around . 
docsteve


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## shona13

Hi Doc 
can i ask a few questions .
When you use the front end loader ,do you have any implement on the three point linkage ?
What position are the hydraulic levers in when you are using the loader and how do you control the loader i.e up/down/hold?
With a standard mf 40 loader it will take 11to 14 seconds to go from the ground to max height using the main hydraulic pump.
Happy Days 
Regards 
Hutch .
P.s summer is here at last Beutifull weather.


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## docsteve

I'm not sure where my levers are . I am presuming they were up , or else nothing will work, right ?? I did grow up on the farm and we had a allis wd45 with power steering and a ford 8n , so I am familiar with three piont hitch workings . I will check the brand and cylinder size of my loader next week , when I go to the farm . I am thinking it is an allied loader ( yellow ) . I have a two lever spool valve mounted on the left loader upright , with my feed from the top of the lift cover . I have nothing on the three point lift . Also , I cannot find the albums of photos of the systems or the technical details catalogue you posted since they changed the site here . Help please . Thanks
docsteve


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## shona13

G,day Doc 
firstly let me apologise, The fact that the Massey hydraulics differ can cause confusion,I suppose all hydraulic systems can ,My reason for asking is to ensure we are eliminating all possibilities 
The Massey Hydraulics are different in the fact that if you put the hydraulic lift lever in the up position the hydraulics will lift up until they reach the TRANSPORT position then they will Neutralize in other words they receive a mechanical signal from the three point linkage ,if you have as in your case the front end loader the hydraulics may not be ALLOWING themselves to work to the best they can.
So Hydraulic lift lever setting, WITHOUT a selector valve under the seat ,(the hydraulic hose should come from any one of three points on the front of the lift cover to the control spool for the loader).
Set the draft lever ,the one nearest the mudguard to the up position and the position control lever ,the one nearest you to the CONSTANT PUMPING POSITION This will ensure the hydraulic pump is allowed to deliver maximum pressure and flow ,the main pump relief valve should be set at 2250 psi or there abouts and generally the relief valve on the control spool on the loader set about 2100/2200.psi.
Lets make sure you have the levers set in this position first.
I have made a short video showing the cycle times for the front end loader but not being as good on computers as at other things i am having trouble trying to figure out how to get it on the site .
Any how It,s Summer and it,s hot to hot to be in the shed am retiring to the verandah with a cold Ginger Beer.
Happy Days. 
Regards .
Hutch .
P.S. I am an old farm boy from back in scotland some forty five years ago.


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## dgreig

My Mf 165 Has sat for 2 yrs , and now will not crank over . It`s MP can I pull start it ?


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## windemere

Hi I have a Massey 168 Multi power late model with a hydrolic pto and it wont engage can you offer ant assistance thanks Paul.


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## shona13

G'Day windemere.
There is a hydraulic test port on the left hand side cover the one with the p.t.o. lever , it,s a small plug ,with the engine stopped remove the plug and install a pressure gauge good for 1500 psi ,start the engine and set the engine speed at say 1400 rpm, check the gauge and the pressure should be between 400;;750 psi.
If the pressure is good other possibilities are ,the pto hydraulic control block may be stuck/seized (not normally a problem but could be).
The mechanical connection between the operating valve and the pto lever ,there is a Dowel peg which connects both ,it is possible the peg has sheared of if you find this is the case make sure the control valve is not seized if so this could be the reason the pin was sheared of.
The pto has a small clutch pack which is energised/deenergised hydraulically and controlled by the pto lever via the control valve, it is possible that the clutch is worn beyond limits.

To avoid mechanical damage to the pto clutch housing and other parts there is a small relief hole drilled in the rear of the assembly that when the clutch plates wear down to their limit expose this small oil drain hole and allow the hydraulic oil to return to sump thus avoiding damage to the clutch housing and other internal parts of the pack .

This information may be of some help !!

Happy Days.
Hutch.


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## windemere

Thanks Hutch I will check the pressure first,how is the best way to access the inner control block or where to find the small drain hole you mention? Thanks Paul


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## shona13

G'Day paul.
You can gain limited access to the pto control valve by removing the left hand side plate .
To access the pto clutch pack the hydraulic lift cover has to be removed.
Hutch.


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## windemere

Thanks Hutch The hydrolic lift cover you speak of is that the main plate where the 3 point linkage arms come out of? Thanks Paul.


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## shona13

G'Day Paul.
That is correct I suggest before removing them cover that you buy yourself a service manual.
Regards.
Hutch.


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## joe3

*MF165 auxilliary hydraulics operation*

Hello. New to the forum and looking for help. My MF165 is equipped with aux hydraulics and a 2 spool valve. I would like to hook it up to a wood splitter that I have, which has a double acting cylinder...but it ALSO has its own control valve for operating the splitter ram forward and backward. I thought I had everything set up right, but when operating the splitter, as soon as the ram meets the wood and has any pressure on it, the hydraulics seem to divert back to the 3 pt system and raise the link arms instead of pumping through to the wood splitter. Am I doing something wrong? Is it possible I have some sort of bad valve or seal that is causing the bypass? Not sure where else to turn, but I do have photos of the set up if anyone can help. Thanks.


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## windemere

Hi Jo
The valve you have that swithches the oil from the arms to your remotes would be the problem,Is it the type that sits between your legs when you are in the driving position? Most likely an o ring but if it has had a lot of use it could be warn. I have recently purchases a new block for my 168,they are available through sparex or a good massey dealer still,I think I paid abput $250 from memory,good luck Paul.


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## racetrap

Hi have a Massey 165 that just just developed a PTO problem. I can engage the PTO but when I lower my tiller the tines instantly stop turning. I can not raise the tiller at all until after I disengage the PTO. Could this be the PTO clutch? Thanks for any feedback, Russ


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## shona13

I would say most likely yes .

Before you start adjusting the pto clutch make sure the main clutch has the proper clearance, it should be 1/8 th inch between the operating arm and the clutch housing.

To check and adjust the PTO clutch ,remove the plate on the bottom of the transmission housing ,the plate is secured by four 5/8 " bolts.

I suggest you use a service manual to guide you through the adjustment procedure,
The manual will suggest that the Plate clearance should be set at .090 Inches, I set the clearance Between .070 and .075 Inches this will give the PTO clutch a little bit more release clearance when operated . It is possible that the PTO plate will distort/ buckle with heat if the tractor PTO is used and the clutch does not have sufficient clearance as in your case, hopefully the PTO clutch is not that bad ,Fingers crossed.
If you cannot find a manual reply and I will guide you through the procedure.

:aussie:


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## Gregveley

my frontend loader will not lift if the rear arms are up past half way, if I lift the arms all the way up, my loader does nothing, drop them down, and switch the diverter valve for the loader, and it works fine, is this a low oil issue? my dip stick says its full, but with the loader up and the rear arms up, it doesn't show on the dip stick?
Greg


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## shona13

This is an indication that both the internal and external hydraulic controls require adjustment.

Happy days.
Hutch.


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## nsister2

I have a '67 MF Model 230. The hydraulic lift will come up but when I try to lift a bale of hay, it won't lift it up. I worked perfectly a few weeks ago and quit for no apparent reason. I have changed the fluid and filter. Any ideas?


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