# 2 stroke oil in diesel



## jeff408 (Aug 23, 2009)

Does anyone add 2 stroke oil in their diesel. I am a member of the dieselplace.com and on there for the Duramax's there was talk about how the new ultra low diesel has lost a lot of lubracisty (sp) and causing scoring of the fuel pump and injectors. They talked about how they were adding 2 stroke oil to make up for the missing lub. Could this be a problem for these tractors.


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## Cannuck-elhead (Feb 25, 2009)

On a newer engine like a Duramax I'd be seriously hesitant to do anything like that.

The 'talk' about the newer ULSD fuel lacking lubricity is just that, talk. Don't think for a minute the deep pockets of the big oil companies would put their big profits on the line and risk a massive lawsuit when engines started experiencing fuel-related problems and someone came looking to them to cover the warranty costs.

The bottom line is that the oil companies are already running LOTS of additives in the fuel. And they'd be silly not to, after all, us the consumers pay for it, not them.

Besides all of that, call your Stealership price out a pair of catalytic converters for that rig of yours and then decide if you want to take the risk of destroying them running 'homebrewed cures' in your engine.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

I buy the Walmart SuperTech outboard 2 stroke oil in the gallon containers and mix is at approx. 100:1 in ALL of my diesel. Definitely CHEAP insurance for lubricating lift and injector pumps as well as injectors. 

Here are some great facts and info. on this subject:

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/tips/cummins/general/2-cycle-oil/2-cycle-oil.htm

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/tips/cummins/general/2-cycle-oil/hfrr/hfrr.htm 

I also treat all of my diesel fuel with Amalgamted diesel fuel additive. 

See my reply about Amalgamated diesel fuel additive:

http://www.tractorforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11916&highlight=amalgamated

On newer diesel engines equipped with a DPF, fuel additives such as 2 stroke oil may cause some issues with sooting up or clogging the DPF. You will have to experiment. 

I run both 2 stroke oil and Amalgamated diesel fuel additive TDR and TDR-S blend during summer in my 2002 Dodge Cummins HO and it does make a noticable improvement in combustion noise, mileage, and performance.

My John Deere 4410 seems to like it as well. No issues using it.


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## magfarm (Nov 5, 2009)

Both gasoline and diesel fuels currently available meet MINIMUM federal standards so that the oil companies can keep their costs down. 

Due to the deficiencies of today’s Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel (ULSD) I would advise against adding 2-stroke oil into your diesel fuel and only use additives specifically formulated to properly lube fuel pumps and injectors.

Diesel fuel additive concentrate


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by magfarm _
> *Both gasoline and diesel fuels currently available meet MINIMUM federal standards so that the oil companies can keep their costs down.
> 
> Due to the deficiencies of today’s Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel (ULSD) I would advise against adding 2-stroke oil into your diesel fuel and only use additives specifically formulated to properly lube fuel pumps and injectors.
> ...


2 stroke oil in diesel works just fine and in fact provide better fuel lubricity than the Amsoil fuel additive and MUCH less cost. It even boost fuel mileage slightly. 

If you need fuel additives for boosting cetane or anti-ice/gel protection, I strongly recommend the Amalgamated TDR-WDA Formula diesel fuel additive which can be purchased for about $100 plus $35 shipping in the 5 gallon pail which will treat 1,500 gallons. 

http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/tdr-wda.aspx

This forumula additive addresses any fuel quality issues at a great price. 

Amsoil makes good products and they are practical to use if you can purchase them directly without paying shipping and other costs. The cost of shipping with Amsoil just puts the product price out of reach.


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## Cannuck-elhead (Feb 25, 2009)

The math just doesn't work here for me on this subject.

Typical base mineral oil stock (that which 2 stroke is made from) has a sulphur content of ~80ppm.

If you are mixing it even as rich as 100:1 with diesel you are gaining 1/100 of 80ppm or 0.8ppm.

IF ULSD is 15ppm you would have to add some 10 quarts of 2 stroke oil to make only a 50% (7.5ppm) increase in the level of Sulphur in the fuel.

That would equate to roughly a 10:1 mixture.

Most posts I see on 'diesel boards' people are talking about 200:1 mixtures.

That would raise the sulphur content by a whopping 0.4ppm or about a 0.00267% increase.

I'll stick with the additives. :truth:


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

It is not a matter of raising the sulphur content. It is raising the lubricity of the fuel. The tests are very conclusive. The 2 stroke oil did raise the lubricity of the fuel as shown in the green area which meets Bosch specifications for fuel lubricity for their VP-44 fuel injection pumps. 

About $8 worth (1 gallon) of the Walmart 2 stroke oil will treat about 125 gallons. 

Mind you if your particular vehicle uses a DPF, the 2 stroke oil is not compatible. Best to go with the fuel additive instead. My particular vehicle engine is a Cummins diesel and is a 5 inch straight pipe exhaust.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

The biggest reason folks like me are using 2 stroke oil in their diesel fuel is that current ULSD does NOT meet Bosch fuel lubricity specs. for their VP-44 fuel injection pump. A rebuilt VP-44 best case runs about $1,000. Cost to have a VP-44 replaced at a dealer of repairshop typicially run in the $2500 to $3000 price range. 

I see it as cheap insurance to help make the VP-44 last as long as possible.


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## Cannuck-elhead (Feb 25, 2009)

To my skeptical eye I see lots of scare tactic terms in those sites you linked to Chief.

From the Mopar site;

"Basically diesel fuel after being refined is well above the 520 HFRR rating which is unacceptable by any standards."

They give it away by going on to say "So its up to the delivery personal to add the lubricant package to the truck before delivery."

Which is the truth, gasoline is the same, all the additives, lubricants, anti-deposit, anti-fouling, anti-everything, is added by the final distributor prior to trucking it out to where you pump it into your truck.

That is NOT to say the fuel you buy at your corner station doesn't meet spec. Only that it doesn't when it leaves the REFINERY.

Likewise on the "HFRR Values...." page, they say "untreated ULSD #2 Diesel Fuel" but don't say if the sample is from the REFINERY, or a PUMP at the retail level.

In fact if you read the PDF from dieselplace it clearly says, the minimum U.S. Standard is 520 microns, but the "Values" page shows the value for ULSD as being 636 so it's obvious they're talking about fuel right from the refinery, not as 'readt to sell' stock.

In fact further on the PDF file they even say "the fuel for the purpose of replacing lost lubricity. In other words, it was a “worst case scenario, very dry diesel fuel” that would likely cause
damage to any fuel delivery system." NOT the stuff you buy for your truck.


Further, from, just as an example, the Exxon website;

"I have heard that removing the sulfur from diesel can cause problems in older engines. Is ULSD going to harm the engine in my pre-2007 diesel vehicle?

Some of the sulfur compounds naturally occurring in diesel fuel provide some wear protection or lubricity. To compensate for the sulfur removal in ULSD Exxon branded diesel fuel is treated with additives to improve lubricity. Customers can be confident in choosing exxon because our branded ULSD fuel meets ASTM D 975 diesel fuel specifications, which provide standards for lubricity, cetane number and other performance characteristics. "

BTW, ASTM D 975 requires a MAXIMUM 520 microns HFRR @ 60° C.

Add whatever you like, I just don't think it's the be-all and end-all that people are talking about.

It seems like a case of compare APPLES to pineAPPLES. 


:lmao:


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## magfarm (Nov 5, 2009)

I tend to agree with Cannuck but based on the forums there are a lot of people using 2-stroke oil as an additive. If it works for you then more power to ya. 

Since my Cummins is still under warranty I will stick with the commercial fuel additives that I know have been performance tested and approved by the manufacturers.



> Amsoil makes good products and they are practical to use if you can purchase them directly without paying shipping and other costs. The cost of shipping with Amsoil just puts the product price out of reach.


Just to set the record straight, 5-gallons of the AMSOIL Diesel Concentrate costs $155 at wholesale pricing, including shipping, and will treat up to 3200 gallons of fuel...which makes it more cost effective. Anyone can purchase at wholesale for $20/year.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by magfarm _
> *I tend to agree with Cannuck but based on the forums there are a lot of people using 2-stroke oil as an additive. If it works for you then more power to ya.
> 
> Since my Cummins is still under warranty I will stick with the commercial fuel additives that I know have been performance tested and approved by the manufacturers.
> ...


Set what record straight??? I never commented on the price of Amsoil products. I stated that the cost of shipping put them out of reach. 

So what is the cost of shipping???


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## magfarm (Nov 5, 2009)

AMSOIL freight schudule to anywhere in the U.S.

WEIGHT - PRICE
Under 3.....................................$7.10
3-6.9 .......................................$7.90
7-13.9 ......................................$9.10
14-21.9 .....................................$9.85
22-39.9 .....................................$0.47 per lb.
40-59.9 .....................................$0.38 per lb.
60-99.9 .....................................$0.37 per lb.
100-249.9 ...................................$0.34 per lb.
250-499.9 ...................................$0.30 per lb.
500-1,000 ...................................$0.28 per lb.
Over 1,000 ..................................$0.27 per lb.

For instance, a 5-gallon container of diesel concentrate weighs 40.2 lbs and costs $15.28 to ship anywhere in the U.S.

I know you were talking about freight prices, I should have been more specific...sorry about that.

Have a great weekend!


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