# Briggs & Stratton on the way out of turf market?



## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Featured in the latest issue of Diesel Progress magazine (trade magazine in the mobile equipment market) was an article that Briggs & Stratton is moving production from the Milwaukee area to New York state. But in the end of the article is info about selling off many common products: 

*"As part of Briggs & Stratton’s repositioning, the company plans to focus primarily on engines, batteries and standby power generation. Its power products and turf businesses, including those being consolidated, will be sold."

https://dieselprogress.com/briggs-moving-some-production-to-new-york-33120/*

https://dieselprogress.com/briggs-stratton-to-sell-certain-assets-30467/


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

The name brands of lawn equipment lines that B&S is looking to divest are Ferris, Billy Goat, Simplicity, Snapper and Snapper Pro brands.

I'm surprised because Ferris has really picked up steam in the commercial z-turn market. Scag has had all kinds of trouble the last few years with customer service/warranty issues. Lots of long time Scag commercial lawn guys have gone over to Ferris.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

B&S moving will be a hard route to take. NYS isn't the best to do business out of. It's sort of like CA, strict regulations and such. Companies are moving out of that state, not going into it. Oh well.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

bmaverick said:


> B&S moving will be a hard route to take. NYS isn't the best to do business out of. It's sort of like CA, strict regulations and such. Companies are moving out of that state, not going into it. Oh well.


B&S has had a big plant in Munnsville, NY since 2004 when they bought Ferris. They just opened another plant in Sherrill, NY last year to keep up with the demand for Ferris commercial mowers. It's not like they aren't familiar with the way New York is run.

Kohler has shifted the majority of their engine production down here to Hattiesburg, MS to get away from the UAW. They've got a 300,000 square foot plant that will have 500 employees once every thing is moved by the end of this year.

https://www.sheboyganpress.com/stor...er-moving-work-kohler-mississippi/3146185002/


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

Didn't Briggs and Stratton bring back the Allis Chalmers name on lawn tractors? I seem to remember that they changed paint colors on Snappers and called them Allis Chalmers.
http://www.tractordata.com/lawn-tractors/000/8/6/868-allis-chalmers-ac23460aws.html


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

bontai Joe said:


> Didn't Briggs and Stratton bring back the Allis Chalmers name on lawn tractors? I seem to remember that they changed paint colors on Snappers and called them Allis Chalmers.
> http://www.tractordata.com/lawn-tractors/000/8/6/868-allis-chalmers-ac23460aws.html


Allis Chalmers actually bought Simplicity back in 1965, but the Feds launched an anti-trust action. Banged around in court for a couple of years and the end result was AC opened a plant in Lexington SC to build the Simplicity line 1967.

By 1973, the Feds were off their case, so they closed SC plant and moved production back to Port Washington, Wisconsin. Simplicity Management bought themselves back from AC in 1983 and continued building mowers in Wisconsin. Briggs bought Simplicity in 2004. AC ceased manufacturing of any kind in 1999, but they continued on as Allis Chalmers Energy in Houston, TX. In 2008, Briggs "licensed" the name from Allis Chalmers Energy which still held the AC trademark to build lawnmowers and started building AC lawnmowers using their Simplicity production capability. I believe I heard Briggs/Simplicity dropped the AC line in 2019.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

Bob Driver said:


> Allis Chalmers actually bought Simplicity back in 1965, but the Feds launched an anti-trust action. Banged around in court for a couple of years and the end result was AC opened a plant in Lexington SC to build the Simplicity line 1967.
> 
> By 1973, the Feds were off their case, so they closed SC plant and moved production back to Port Washington, Wisconsin. Simplicity Management bought themselves back from AC in 1983 and continued building mowers in Wisconsin. Briggs bought Simplicity in 2004. AC ceased manufacturing of any kind in 1999, but they continued on as Allis Chalmers Energy in Houston, TX. In 2008, Briggs "licensed" the name from Allis Chalmers Energy which still held the AC trademark to build lawnmowers and started building AC lawnmowers using their Simplicity production capability. I believe I heard Briggs/Simplicity dropped the AC line in 2019.


It's a similar story about Murray mowers. They went into liquidation, yet someone (B&S) bought their brand name. Shortly thereafter Murray mowers started showing up once again. Murray had a huge facility in Nashville-TN area. 
https://www.murray.com/na/en_us/products.html


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Amazing, this manufacturing dance. Seems an opportunity for Skag to buy Ferris/Simplicity, and for Skag to grab some of the residential market. I've also been looking at some cool Husqvarna articulated front deck mowers. That market has never really caught on here in NA versus how common they are in Europe. A Ferris/Simplicity update of the late 60's Bolens Estate mower with attachments actually is more versatile than a typical ZTR.

https://gardentractortalk.com/forums/topic/46645-bolens-articulator-hydrostatic-mower/


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

andyvh1959 said:


> I've also been looking at some cool Husqvarna articulated front deck mowers.


John Deere had a few of them out there before the zero-turn mower literally took over the world in the 80s - 90s as they were very popular. Now, people with the older John Deere units can't even give them away. Sure they are diesel, but they are slow moving and time consuming to get the job done. The front mowers are not agile enough either. 

John Deere isn't giving up on the product. In fact, they have upgraded the machines away from the lack luster speed and added more attachments for the front. This makes the machines multi-use for front end works. 
https://www.deere.com/en/mowers/commercial-mowers/front-mowers


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

That Deere machine is more of a commercial/golf course type for sure. Surprised no one has something like the Husqvarna T120. 

Just saw local news that Briggs & Stratton is millions in debt and faulted on their most recent interest payment. BUT, they did manage to pay millions in bonuses to their top execs. News reported B&S could end up in bankruptcy if the interest payments are not made up. Sad to see a company cater to the execs to the potential detriment of the company and hundreds of every day folks doing the real work.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

I've personally started to favor the engines made by the same guys that produce bathroom fixtures. There is just something comforting about dealing with a company that can actually design, manufacture, and sell a $5,300 toilet.

https://www.us.kohler.com/us/veil-i...lets/1120267.htm?skuId=1120260&brandId=empty&

I grew up with an outhouse, so this is like space shuttle stuff to me....

"_Front and rear wash modes provide warm water for cleansing_. _Automatic deodorization system. Heated seat with adjustable temperature settings. LED lighting illuminates the bowl to serve as a nightlight. Motion-activated, hands-free opening/closing of seat and cover. Touchscreen LCD remote"_. 

Think about that one for a minute..... A remote controlled toilet????

I just figure if those people can build all that into a toilet, surely they try to build a decent V-Twin that won't take a crap on you.


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

But Kohler has been on the move too: 
https://www.jsonline.com/story/mone...ne-manufacturing-sheboygan-county/3147374002/

Guess they favor $16/hour for assemblers in Hattiesburg MS versus $27/hour for assemblers in Sheboygan WI.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Yep.... Live about a mile from the Toyota Plant in Blue Springs, MS where 2,500 people work building the Corolla. Nissan has a plant at Canton MS that has 4,000 employees. No UAW and a workforce that is happy to have the jobs at both plants. 

Lots of manufacturing plants are moving to MS for that very reason. PACCAR builds all of their MX series engines at a 450,000 sq ft plant outside Columbus MS. Ingalls Shipyard is at Pascagoula, MS and has 11,000 employees. They are the largest shipbuilding contractor for the U.S. Navy. They announced last week that they just signed a $936M contract to build another Arleigh Burke-class destroyer

Now days, we produce way more than cotton, catfish, blues music, and watermelons here in MS


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

I know the Columbus area, many many flights in there last year going to work on projects at Taylor in Louisville. Pretty area. Stayed at Lake Tiak O'khata many times. Lots of good people at Taylor, good economy there too. I like it there but the heat would be too much for this winter loving Yankee. Same for Fort Payne AL. I'll be there again in a few weeks.

Up here in Wisconsin, the upper midwest, the unions are still strong at many manufacturers. There was a time for unions, but I think these days it hurts the workers as much as helps them. If the impact of unions makes employers move out of state what gain is that? The manufacturers do need to be fair to their employees, give them reasonable pay and benefits. But the union demands have to be reasonable too. A local union nearly argued themselves out of jobs over a $.20 differential in benefits, and guaranteed increases regardless of market conditions.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Always liked being in a union environment as a manager. If the situation wasn't specifically addressed in the contract.... "Management Discretion". Unfortunately, the answer to almost any employee request was always NO even if it was reasonable and no problem to implement. Couldn't run the risk of setting a precedent that the union would try to leverage into the next contract, or grievance.

Most union guys have no idea of the backdoor deals that go between Managers and the Shop Steward, or Union BA. My mechanics were paying $35 a month in dues for a guy to represent them that would routinely sell them out in a heart beat if there was something they else he wanted out of me. I didn't have a single union grievance get beyond that Shop Steward for over a year because I had my body shop vendor paint his van for $400. A little underhanded, but that's the way the world really works.


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Last year a few times I stayed at the Taylor Lodge SE of Louisville.
https://www.quailridgelodge.com/
The Taylors know how to treat their guests! Great dinners there. They have many large ponds/small lakes there, so I did some fishing from the shore, just casting fake baits, and caught some really nice hard fighting bass.


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

I swapped to Kawasaki from Briggs powered equipment.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

Maybe their lawn and power lines were hurting because they couldn't use th best engines? Maybe they'll use the money from the sale to design and build better engines? That's the way is should work, but more likely its a pump and dump scheme to rape the company and sell the name to china.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Well.... It's Official, Briggs filed for Chapter 11 today. Not a big surprise. It's been run lately about as well as Harley.


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Yup, just read that myself. How can a company that produced engines for nearly every damn small engine application for the past 50 years now be going bankrupt? 

Last week Harley announced eliminating 700 jobs. Now, Harley sells into a wishful realm of the motorized market, a market that buys FAR more on mystique, icon status, ideal and image than on need or rationale. When money and markets go tight, buyers of iconic wistful products slam the wallet shut. But, the small industrial equipment markets, from lawn care to construction, buy on commercial need. That market is SO huge compared to the motorcycle market, so how is it B&S is bankrupt other than by mishandling?


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

andyvh1959 said:


> Yup, just read that myself. How can a company that produced engines for nearly every damn small engine application for the past 50 years now be going bankrupt?
> 
> Last week Harley announced eliminating 700 jobs. Now, Harley sells into a wishful realm of the motorized market, a market that buys FAR more on mystique, icon status, ideal and image than on need or rationale. When money and markets go tight, buyers of iconic wistful products slam the wallet shut. But, the small industrial equipment markets, from lawn care to construction, buy on commercial need. That market is SO huge compared to the motorcycle market, so how is it B&S is bankrupt other than by mishandling?


Honda and Chonda (chinese copy of a Honda) own the small market and Kohler and Kawi own the larger market.
The ubiquitus Briggs flat heads have been outlawed.

Briggs turned into an "also ran"


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

True, but for years Briggs did make some decent v-twins OHV engines. The singles were long ago sold out to China. The v-twins sustained, until now.

As far as I'm concerned, from now on I strive to buy nothing of Chinese origin anymore. That includes non-Chinese brand names, produced in China. Time for more companies to pull out of China. I for one am more than willing to pay more for anything not produced in China. Its also time to not own a smart phone made in China (Apple is final assembled in China, Samsung is made in South Korea).


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

So how's that Briggs and Stratton thing going?


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

I was at a local IMCA Modified dirt track race last night. Friend of mine and his son were racing there. Turns out his son works in Engine Development at B&S. Would have liked to drill the son with all sorts of questions, but he was focused on setting up his Modified for the heats. His dad agreed to comments I made about the dumb-assery at the high levels in B&S that got them deep in the do-do. He said word in the business is that Generac may be buying B&S, which would at least keep it in some sort of business and owned in north America. 

Generac has been building equipment an engines in Wisconsin for decades, and is one of the few remaining traditional Wisconsin based small engine companies still at it in Wisconsin. Tecumseh, Wisconsin/Robin, Evinrude, B&S, Waukesha, McCulloch, Kahlengburg, probably others too, all gone entirely or out of Wisconsin. Take it a bit further and many larger engines and equipment were built in Wisconsin. At one time, FWD, now Seagrave Fire Apparatus in Clintonville built the entire engine, forgings to pistons, V16 gas engines. Some great engine history in Wisconsin.


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Some history between B&S and Generac going back to the 80's: 








So Generac was connected to B&S decades ago.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Drove a big FWD snowplow when I worked for the Colorado Highway Department.... 14' plow with a 14' wing -- 2' feet of snow on the road, plowing both lanes of I-70 at 30MPH, uphill on a 6% grade.... That truck was the baddest thing on the West approach to the Eisenhower tunnel. 

FWD, Coleman, Oshkosh... You boys sure built some badass snowplows up there at one time.


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

True that!! FWD Seagrave is still an account I visit frequently. Their history is fascinating. In the small town of Clintonville, home of FWD, is a section of the Great Wall of China. i recall that FWD sent so many trucks to China, the government there sent a section of the wall back to Wisconsin. Ha, I bet every FWD design was copied in China too. I used to work in chassis engineering at Pierce Fire Apparatus, Appleton WI. I got to design/build some cool stuff. I was the guy to install Bosch ABS on the 1st Pierce fire truck back in the late 80's. Did a lot of test driving/driver training. Its real easy to get a fire truck sideways on dry pavement just with braking. 

We designed/built a front wheel drive Class 8 fire truck, 500hp Detroit 8V92, Allison automatic, it would do burnouts on those big super single tires on the front. Handled great! The Michelin tire engineers said they never recorded as high lateral G's with that chassis as with any other truck in that weight class. I went to far northern Sweden with the truck to develop/test the Bosch ABS and traction control with Bosch engineers.


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

More details on the history of B&S demise:
https://wisconsinexaminer.com/2020/09/28/briggs-strattons-demise-greed-mismanagement-blaming-others/

B&S was recently bought out by KPS: 
https://biztimes.com/briggs-stratton-completes-sale-to-kps-capital-group/

Probably rest assured that the only ones benefitting from the sale is KPS.


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

A very sad situation indeed.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

What was the name of that other company up there in Milwaukee that made motorcycles for a really long time and their management operated pretty much the same way? Seems kind of like a pattern up that way.

Any time a company gets bought by a "Capital Investment Firm", they become like a streetwalker standing on the corner. They are for sale, at any time, to the highest bidder. They just became an "asset" in the KPS portfolio, just like you and I hold stocks. They have no interest in actually running the company, they are just looking to maximize the ROI on their $550M investment


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Yup, divest the assets, dump the debits side, sell off the rest. Oh,..you people that put in 25, 35, 40+ years,....too damn bad for you. Is that the fault for angst against the investment firm? Not really. The ones to point at are the greedy top level persons who could care less for devoted employees or families, from the old family name to the later management cleaning house.


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