# ford 8n 3pt floating up



## allanworks (8 mo ago)

hi, I bought a ford 8n a month ago and everything seemed to work fine. I just got my first attachment a JD brush hog a week ago. when I go to adjust the height with the control lever I can't get a few inches to lift it just wants to shoot up or go all the way down. it starts moving about halfway up the lever and continues floating up, but won't go down until the brush hog reaches 2/3 up and the lever is down. without the weight of the brush hog, it acts normal.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

Welcome to TF.

I wonder if you have the lift system in "draft" mode? There's a steel lever against the side of the trans case under the seat. If that lever is pointed down it's in draft mode. If the lever is pointing forward it's in the "position control" mode for the 3pt.

Draft mode is for pulling a 3pt moldboard plow and other attachments that rely on the draft control to regulate 3pt height.

Normally you want position control.


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## allanworks (8 mo ago)

ovrszd said:


> Welcome to TF.
> 
> I wonder if you have the lift system in "draft" mode? There's a steel lever against the side of the trans case under the seat. If that lever is pointed down it's in draft mode. If the lever is pointing forward it's in the "position control" mode for the 3pt.
> 
> ...


its in position control mode


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

allanworks said:


> its in position control mode


Bummer, I was hoping for an easy fix.

We have some very experienced old Ford guys here. Hopefully one or more of them will stumble onto this thread and offer a solution. Sorry I couldn't help.


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## allanworks (8 mo ago)

ovrszd said:


> Bummer, I was hoping for an easy fix.
> 
> We have some very experienced old Ford guys here. Hopefully one or more of them will stumble onto this thread and offer a solution. Sorry I couldn't help.


no problem, I'm just glad you chimed in. I was starting to think this website was dead.


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## thedukes (Jan 9, 2022)

Have you tried it in the "other" position..?

Ours has the opposite problem of yours.........Ours bleeds down.

Which is fine till you stop...then the mower is in the dirt.

Does yours have any aux hydraulics?
As in did it ever have a Front end loader or scv to the rear?

You have a unique issue for sure.


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## allanworks (8 mo ago)

thedukes said:


> Have you tried it in the "other" position..?
> 
> Ours has the opposite problem of yours.........Ours bleeds down.
> 
> ...


I flipped it into draft mode thinking that was the issue it wasnt, no aux hydraulics.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

allanworks said:


> no problem, I'm just glad you chimed in. I was starting to think this website was dead.


Sometimes activity is slow to start on a thread.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Allan, 
You can spend a lot of money trying to fix your lift, or you can go with a mower deck height stabilizer kit. Simple concept, you use the chains to set your cutting height as desired. You can lift the mower at will, but when you lower it the chains stop it at your preset cutting height. These kits are readily available at virtually all tractor parts suppliers.


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## allanworks (8 mo ago)

ovrszd said:


> Sometimes activity is slow to start on a thread.


too true, but there have been a few times on websites I never got a response from anybody and it ended up costing me more money and time than I would like to admit. i like to use forums to have a plan of attack and parts on hand.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

allanworks said:


> too true, but there have been a few times on websites I never got a response from anybody and it ended up costing me more money and time than I would like to admit. i like to use forums to have a plan of attack and parts on hand.


Absolutely!!! If you can't find the information needed online you just aren't searching enough. I'm old (70), been using computers for 30 years. Just in the last 10 have I fully accepted and utilized "Google Search".


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## allanworks (8 mo ago)

ovrszd said:


> Absolutely!!! If you can't find the information needed online you just aren't searching enough. I'm old (70), been using computers for 30 years. Just in the last 10 have I fully accepted and utilized "Google Search".


well, I would not say "aren't searching enough" sometimes you don't know how to word it right for google to work, Google buries what you are looking for, and sometimes you are the first to post the issue online. I'm pretty sure I'm in one of the first two the last one would be pretty crazy since these tractors are 60+ years old. I was kinda hoping for an "I had that problem to this was the issue" response. but if i don't get one that's fine ill figure it out during the teardown in a week hopefully.


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## allanworks (8 mo ago)

BigT said:


> Allan,
> You can spend a lot of money trying to fix your lift, or you can go with a mower deck height stabilizer kit. Simple concept, you use the chains to set your cutting height as desired. You can lift the mower at will, but when you lower it the chains stop it at your preset cutting height. These kits are readily available at virtually all tractor parts suppliers.
> 
> 
> View attachment 79590


thank you I will look further into this. hopefully, I can find a cheaper pair tractor supply has them for over $100.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Should be less than $50.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Welcome to the forum. I think we'd like to see a picture or two of how you have your mower hooked up. Seems you may have an issue with the control spring area where the top link connects to the tractor. Maybe.
How heavy is this mower?
Maybe the way you have your top link connected is causing the weight of the mower to constantly pull the control link. I think you might have multiple holes to hook the top link to. For mowing, I'd hook the top link to the lowest hole. Is that what you are doing?


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Good thought Bill!
*_*

Another possibility is that the spring loaded top link has been pushed "in" and is stuck "in", causing the draft control system to think that the attachment (normally a plow) is pulling too hard, and it must raise the lift to reduce load.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

allanworks said:


> well, I would not say "aren't searching enough" sometimes you don't know how to word it right for google to work, Google buries what you are looking for, and sometimes you are the first to post the issue online. I'm pretty sure I'm in one of the first two the last one would be pretty crazy since these tractors are 60+ years old. I was kinda hoping for an "I had that problem to this was the issue" response. but if i don't get one that's fine ill figure it out during the teardown in a week hopefully.


Please come back with any solution. I'm very curious now.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

BigT said:


> Good thought Bill!
> *_*
> 
> Another possibility is that the spring loaded top link has been pushed "in" and is stuck "in", causing the draft control system to think that the attachment (normally a plow) is pulling too hard, and it must raise the lift to reduce load.


I may be all wet here, won't be the first time....

I think when the system is in the position control mode it doesn't care what the top link spring system is doing? That only comes into play when the lift is in the draft mode?

I'm sure of that on my newer tractors. But haven't been around an 8N since I was a kid.


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## allanworks (8 mo ago)

pogobill said:


> Welcome to the forum. I think we'd like to see a picture or two of how you have your mower hooked up. Seems you may have an issue with the control spring area where the top link connects to the tractor. Maybe.
> How heavy is this mower?
> Maybe the way you have your top link connected is causing the weight of the mower to constantly pull the control link. I think you might have multiple holes to hook the top link to. For mowing, I'd hook the top link to the lowest hole. Is that what you are doing?


 I hope these help its a 4ft JD brush hog probably ways around 350+lbs


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

In my experience it’s probably under the 3 point cover. It is not uncommon for the 8N 3point control rod to get bent, and not perform as advertised (E.g. switching in and out of draft does nothing different), some owners have modified the draft control to their taste or modified to suit the agriculture operation… or it got broken somewhere in time. The forum would need to see good photos of the underside of the 3 point cover where the cylinder and piston are mounted (flipped over on wood or an old tire) and possibly inside the gear housing too. From there, you and the forum would be able to visually inspect if something is obviously wrong, bent, missing, modified. Which you already know, it’s not working correctly.


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## allanworks (8 mo ago)

well, I think we figured it out. me and my uncles messed with the position control for a good 10 minutes up/down and it started working so something was clogged, gummed up, or stuck. it's not 100% but 10x better than it was. I'm gonna flush the system and put new hydraulic fluid in it. hopefully that fixes the rest of it. all i need now is a bumper and grill.


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

Water intrusion will do that. Makes the hydraulic oil real milky, crappy. 
Glad you got it back up and running!


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## allanworks (8 mo ago)

Dan of all Trades said:


> Water intrusion will do that. Makes the hydraulic oil real milky, crappy.
> Glad you got it back up and running!


any suggestion on how to flush that milky crap out? was thinking of doing the diesel flush like I read on other forums or would some trans flush work just as well.


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

I don’t recommend automatic transmission flush. The inside of the case isn’t without little pockets to hide water. But yes, a low flammability solvent is best. Kerosene and white gas have less additives then diesel that aren’t really nessessary in a tractor hydraulic slush box. Not to mention the cost of diesel at the Pump. SHEESH! But if diesels what’s on the farm, I get it.
You are on the right track! Can do!


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

I was sure I had a photo of a customers Ford 800 I wanted to share with you. Here it is… Water contamination in the tractor hydraulic fluid makes this snot like goo. This is what the solvent (kerosene) is breaking down so you can drain as much of this out as possible.


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## JLSteiner (Aug 6, 2017)

allanworks said:


> hi, I bought a ford 8n a month ago and everything seemed to work fine. I just got my first attachment a JD brush hog a week ago. when I go to adjust the height with the control lever I can't get a few inches to lift it just wants to shoot up or go all the way down. it starts moving about halfway up the lever and continues floating up, but won't go down until the brush hog reaches 2/3 up and the lever is down. without the weight of the brush hog, it acts normal.


Hello Dan, This is Jack of all trades. An 8n ford does not have position control, only draft control, so you can not hold a position, most people use chains from the lower lift arms to a clip on a bolt on the axle housing to adjust the height you want.


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## Dan of all Trades (Jun 2, 2018)

Thanks for the correction! I was working on a different tractor and didn’t change my channel back to 8N.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

First thing I would do is put your top link in the lower hole on the tractor, as pogobill suggested.


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## allanworks (8 mo ago)

JLSteiner said:


> Hello Dan, This is Jack of all trades. An 8n ford does not have position control, only draft control, so you can not hold a position, most people use chains from the lower lift arms to a clip on a bolt on the axle housing to adjust the height you want.


ford 8n's do have position control it's the 2n and 9n that don't. there is a lever under the seat on the right-hand side to switch between position control and draft control.


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## allanworks (8 mo ago)

BigT said:


> First thing I would do is put your top link in the lower hole on the tractor, as pogobill suggested.


I did thanks to pogobill, I didn't even realize it would be an issue until I started thinking about leverage. I do need to get a set of sway bars for it eventually.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

JLSteiner said:


> Hello Dan, This is Jack of all trades. An 8n ford does not have position control, only draft control, so you can not hold a position, most people use chains from the lower lift arms to a clip on a bolt on the axle housing to adjust the height you want.


We must have a "failure to communicate" here. It's been decades since I've been on an 8N. But I recall being able to stop the 3pt at whatever position I wanted with the position of the lever when the lever is up. When the lever is down, it's in draft control and then the position lever only controls the lowest position the 3pt arms will go. And this position is controlled by the load on the top link.

Clarification for this old memory of mine would be excellent. Thanks.


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## allanworks (8 mo ago)

just dumped the hydraulic fluid this afternoon looked like beige paint and the first small bit that came out was water. the good news is everything looks clean internally minus a thin layer of rust at the top everything else looks like it's in great shape. I'm not gonna flush it, decided to let it drip overnight and put some seafoam hydra trans tune in it with fresh hydraulic fluid. for the bad part, I changed the oil and there was a lot of sludge in it like it has never been changed in its life thankfully it's soft, also the oil screen is missing. next oil change I'm gonna flush the oil system and add a can of engine restore. I also need to order a new oil screen.


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## thedukes (Jan 9, 2022)

Good news is ...8N don't have internal brakes......So the water ....as bad as it is did lots less damage.

Buy the ..Hold on ... Something like this ..There was another cheaper one








Agricultural Hydraulic Fluid, 5 gal. - Wilco Farm Stores


General purpose, economical, agricultural hydraulic fluidFormulated as SAE 20 with additives to protect against wear, corrosion & oxidation for mining, construction, farm & logging operations




www.farmstore.com





Flush with this........Pour what you drain in a glass Water jug..Yea the old school ones. 5 Gallon.
Plastic jugs will werk too as long as you can let it sit X hours to seperate. And SEE the seperation Water/Oil
You can pour the oil off the water..Recycle a few times...yada...bla bla..its cheaper than diesel and it werks in an 8N just fine.
Been there ..did this.
Theres a reason these old tractors still work.
No Brain
No Bs emission crap
They are designed to work.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

A comment I'll add concerning the engine. Older engines had large clearance tolerances. They thrive on a certain amount of sludge in the crankcase to keep those large tolerances in check.

As a kid I heard mechanics talking about the negative effects of using a high detergent oil. A lot of farmers used non-detergent oil in their tractor engines to minimize consumption.

Giving an old well worn engine a strong crankcase flushing may create adverse effects.


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## allanworks (8 mo ago)

ovrszd said:


> A comment I'll add concerning the engine. Older engines had large clearance tolerances. They thrive on a certain amount of sludge in the crankcase to keep those large tolerances in check.
> 
> As a kid I heard mechanics talking about the negative effects of using a high detergent oil. A lot of farmers used non-detergent oil in their tractor engines to minimize consumption.
> 
> Giving an old well worn engine a strong crankcase flushing may create adverse effects.


ok, I'll reframe from flushing the oil. I used quaker state 10w30 is there a thicker or better oil you would recommend the next time I change the oil?


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

allanworks said:


> ok, I'll reframe from flushing the oil. I used quaker state 10w30 is there a thicker or better oil you would recommend the next time I change the oil?


Multi-grade engine oil was created because of the closer tolerances in newer engines. It offers similar lubricity thru a broader range of temperatures.

When your 8N was built multi-grade oils were rare if not unavailable. 30W was most common. If an owner had an engine that consumed oil a heavier grade was often used to try to minimize that.

I won't get into a brand discussion because that never ends well. 

I prefer a heavier weight multi-grade oil. I use 15W40.

Just thought of another issue with older engines. I've saw engines consume one brand. And when switched to a different brand, consumption lowered or went away. I attributed that to the sludge thing we talked about earlier. Some brands have a higher detergent and cleaning affect.

If I were you, I'd not flush. I'd run whatever multi-grade oil I'm most confident in. Then as I used the tractor more I might adjust my use dependent on the results. For example if it starts consuming engine oil I'd switch to a 30W non-detergent oil and run that for awhile to see results.


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## John Liebermann (Sep 17, 2018)

Been putting oil in Ford tractors since the 40's, 9n, 8n, now 860. Never used anything but Western Oils as High detergent as possible. With all our engines on the farm we did the same thing. If an engine burned oil we added oil If it got too excessive we overhauled.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

John Liebermann said:


> Been putting oil in Ford tractors since the 40's, 9n, 8n, now 860. Never used anything but Western Oils as High detergent as possible. With all our engines on the farm we did the same thing. If an engine burned oil we added oil If it got too excessive we overhauled.


And I'm sure your engines have very little sludge. The OP's machine doesn't benefit from that level of quality care/maintenance.


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## Gary Alford (Jun 18, 2010)

allanworks said:


> ok, I'll reframe from flushing the oil. I used quaker state 10w30 is there a thicker or better oil you would recommend the next time I change the oil?


 15W40 doesn't matter if it says for diesels. I am a retired heavy equip. mechanic and part time farmer.


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