# Log splitter in pieces-hopeless or not?



## Notaclue (Sep 3, 2018)

Hello,
This is my first post, I hope that a hydraulic log split question has a place on the Tractor forum. 

My friend gave me a log splitter which he loaned to his friend who busted it somehow and feeling responsible, took it to the repair shop. The shop disassembled the cylinder, the detentions valve and pump and said it would cost $900 to repair. Apparently that was too much and the log splitter was returned disassembled , all small parts in 2 boxes plus a empty cylinder tube and piston(not pictured). 

Fast fwd to me taking this over. I heard nothing about the diagnosis or why all components were disassembled etc. Can someone shed light on what they suspect was the hydraulic mechanics reason for full disassembly, would it be to clean out metal shards or?

Also is reassembly reasonable or given the age and condition (don’t really know condition) should I just buy new parts. 

Is it possible to determine which parts need replacing by just looking at them? Or does it all have to be reassembled and started up?

Thanks a lot !


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

Welcome to the forum! That looks like a project alright. Thing about it is you can chisel away at it a little at a time, as you can afford the money and the time.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

By the time we are done with you, you'll have to change your user name to noseitall!
Welcome to the forum. I'm not a hydraulics wizard, but I think that the shop was either being careful to make sure they sorted all the problems, or they thinking that money was no object, got in too deep. I wonder what the issue was with the splitter that made it inoperable? If it was just the valve that operates the ram, that can be replaced. If the ram is bent, it might be something you may want to have straightened or just replace. It is a matter of dollars...... Let us know what the condition of the complete splitter seems to be.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Would be interesting to know what was meant by "busted", that would at least give you a start to where the problem was.
You will need to inspect all components for damage and like pogobill says, check the ram shaft for straight, in the photo with the spool valve, there seems to be a gall towards the top, "this may be just light reflection", also check for any wear in the pump housing, check the pump gears too, The main parts to inspect will be the relief valve components and the spool valve, also check the ram bore for score marks.

Can't believe that the spool valve has been thrown in amongst the shrapnel like that, a no no in my books.

Repairing the splitter should be fairly simple, replacing all O rings and seals, new piston seals and a seal kit for the ram shaft head.

That would be an interesting job to tackle.


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## dozer966 (Dec 30, 2014)

See if you can find an exploded view of the valve and pump. a parts list so you can see if all components are there. They are fairly simple. As mentioned look for scores, worn and pitted surfaces. If all is good you will need a O ring and gasket kit since all is apart might as well change them all. I doo find it funny that they took the cylinder apart. A bench test tells the hole story on that and the pump also. Looks like a kid took it apart just to see how it works. Looking at the picture it doesn't look like enny thing catastrophic happened. I think he got screwed by the shop but I could be wrong


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## sixbales (May 18, 2011)

In looking at your pictures, (I think) I see damaged surfaces, but it might be dirt, grease, etc. Look the components over carefully for evidence of metal particulate damage. My GUESS as to why the shop tore it all the way down is widespread damage observed??


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## PJ161 (Sep 12, 2016)

From what I see, looks like the, "SHOP", has one or a bunch of nitwits working in it, only way to explain that mess. If the cylinder was ruined, why would one pull the pump apart or the spool valve? If the pump was bad, why pull the cylinder apart? I would say whoever attempted to, "REPAIR" this unit, didn't know what he was doing, screwed it up and took it to someone else to fix it, who ever that was and wanted 900 bucks to fix it! Nice friend!
I'm sure a few of us have repaired something in various hydraulic systems, but I don't think any of use would throw internal valve parts in mess like that. Oh well, takes all kinds.


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## Notaclue (Sep 3, 2018)

Thanks for the reply’s. 
I’ve gathered more photos to show the starting point on this project. Good suggestion on checking against a parts diagram. 

First the basic unit 














Cylinder, has a dent at opening (probably fell over, can be carefully hammered round again?). No big scratches, ram is straight.


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## Notaclue (Sep 3, 2018)

Spool valve seems complete, handle is damaged at end, assembled in last pic


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## Notaclue (Sep 3, 2018)

Pump:
Needs to be cleaned thoroughly. 
Is the model/ part# simply (Barnes Y H) ?
Any suggestions where to get a gasket to replace the thin clear gasket between pump sections?


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Barnes sold out to Haldex some years ago. Their splitter hydraulic pumps are now sold under the Haldex-Barnes brand name. Do a search for a dealer and see if they have kits for obsolete Barnes pumps.

Looking at the bore of the cylinder, I would not waste my time. It will leak past the end cap seal because of the hammer mechanic tracks where the outer O ring seals the end in the bore. Just about any farm store can set you up with a reasonably priced cylinder that will not squirt oil as you use it.

Were you able to find a seal kit for the Brand valve? Photo appears to show virtually all the seals are missing. I would take it to a hydraulics shop and see if they can locate seals if there are no scores on the spool or inside the body.


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## Notaclue (Sep 3, 2018)

Hi and thanks for all the good feedback, I’ve worked on a lot of engines etc but never touched hydraulics so I’m not sure how clean hydraulic systems have to be or how big a scratch is too big. So for example, one would not polish a cylinder bore to remove scratches and make it serviceable again? Anyway will look for 24”x 2” replacement cylinder. 

Valve seal kit for a A0755 found at:
http://www.atagulf.com/catalog/english/89A.pdf 

As for the old Haldex-Barnes hydraulic pump , have not yet found a supplier for gaskets. Tried Northern but no luck. Will try hydraulic supply next 
https://www.hydraulic-supply.com/

Thanks


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2018)

Try the Parker Store if you have one nearby. They are a franchise.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Good catch finding the valve seal kit at a marine hydraulic supply.

The valves and pumps in hydraulic systems need to be clean, precise, and mirror smooth or the fluid will be subject to cavitation under pressure and erode the components leading to failure. Cylinders can be scuffed, but no scratches or dings in the sealing areas. The rams must be straight, and the pistons can be scuffed, but no out of round or scratches you can detect with a fingernail.

In the case of gear pumps, there should be no shadows or evidence of scrubbing on the gears or case at all, or they will fail to develop rated pressure. Splitters can usually get away with some pump wear and still function because the pump is mounted close enough to the oil supply that they tend not to lose prime, and are what we call a wet circuit where the oil level is high enough to keep the pump full of oil at all times. If the pump is above the oil filler, any wear can be a problem.

The lines and hoses, and reservoir, must be clean with no particulate matter. Most systems have hydraulic filters on the return line to trap wear particles before they can cause failure.


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## dozer966 (Dec 30, 2014)

RC pretty much said it all. Good sound advice.


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## Notaclue (Sep 3, 2018)

Cavitation, had to look that up!

So as I understand what you’re saying is that when the oil slips past a seal due to loose fits or scratches etc. collapsing bubbles and shock waves or cavitation produce wear in the surrounding metal. And so what I see as a fairly smooth and scratch free cylinder bore is actually at a microscopic scale having lots of channels and paths for pressurized oil to pass?

Thanks for the suggestion about a filter I’ll definitely add one to this system.

I left a voicemail at the company that used to be “Barnes” then became “Haldex-Barnes” and now is “Concentric Rockford Inc”. Hopefully this will bear fruit. 


Concentric Rockford Inc. 2222 15th Street, Rockford, IL 61104, USA.
Toll free No.: 800-572-7867


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

Yes, any high pressure leakage creates that wear, and is why we get right on hydraulic issues when they occur, before they become catastrophic. 

Interesting about Concentric Rockford, just met with the Haldex rep this afternoon. Said nothing about this change. Global economics are a nightmare, never know who is on first!


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## Notaclue (Sep 3, 2018)

Spoke to concentric and they told me I had to go thru their distributors, so I called the distributor and she checked out th P/N from the JSBarnes label (200879) and told me that is a Sears PN. I checked it and she was correct, the good news is that there are parts diagrams for the whole rig but most pump parts are listed as unavailable. 
https://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-number/200879/0094/1500280.html

Actually in the pump diagram there are no gaskets listed between the pump sections, but on this unit there are definitely some very thin, clear gasket separating the 3 cast sections.


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## Notaclue (Sep 3, 2018)

Okay got progress to report. While I’ve had no luck finding partyfoe this old Barnes pump I read a suggestion to use aluminum foil as ultra thin gasket material, so will cut my own. 







Focusing on the cylinder...seal company Herculesus.com seem to have all replacement seals I just need help with the 3 questions in the picture 







Thanks


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## dozer966 (Dec 30, 2014)

I believe you are wasting your time and money on the cylinder. I went back to the pictures you provided and the end of the cylinder (tube) is crushed. Not round. It is NFG. You will have to Source out a new complete cylinder .


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## Notaclue (Sep 3, 2018)

The tube was just bent on on the area to the outside of the snap ring groove. With heat, hand sledge and a wide punch with the same curvature as the tube, I was able to take the crimp out. Now the piston goes in. 


























Can anyone help with the 3 questions in picture 4?

Thanks !


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

#1 you need the "O" ring to seal the piston and shaft
#2 the flat ring goes on first and then the "O" ring on the gland
#3 the shaft seal is stiff but flexible, yes you will have to squash this to get it into the groove, there should be on one end a thicker section both O.D. and I.D., this has to face the pressure side of the ram, I think the way you have that sitting on the shaft looks right, pinch the shaft seal in the middle and feed it into the groove, and the last bit you will have to try and "U" shape the seal to get this into the groove, take your time doing this and it will go, I have always used Vaseline on the "O" rings and seals when resealing rams and glands, hydraulic oil is ok, just make sure the seals have a liberal coating. 

I would have done what you did to the ram cylinder too, that is the low pressure end and if the seals have a good seating area, it should be ok, if not, you will have to replace the barrel.

I was going to say earlier that Subaru has a sealing product for when the joining of the engine crankcases are brought together, Loctite also has gasket in a tube that evens out under bolt pressure, you try your foil and see what happens, the Loctite has to be used sparingly because as soon as pressure is applied and the air expelled, it sets.

I can see this splitter working shortly, from your photos, there didn't seem to be nothing major.

Come back when you get it all together and let us know the results.


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

I am really missing something! Low pressure end? Looks like a double acting cylinder to me, same pressure on each side of the ram.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

I know it is a double acting ram Mr. Wells and I am not worried if you have missed something.


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## Notaclue (Sep 3, 2018)

Thanks for the answers Fred, very helpful information. Just need to clarify about Q2 and the position of the flat plastic washer , does it go into the tube of the piston and everything else? I’m guessing that it acts as a bumper/shock-absorber between the piston and the end of the cylinder. If that’s all and it’s not a pressure seal then I’ll reuse it. 

Piston fits in cylinder easily esp with no seal. Gland is much closer tolerance but goes in. I think it’ll be fine. 














As for the gasket on the pump, using a paste type sealant would sure be a lot easier than cutting out a small gasket and punching 8 holes in the right place. I’d just be concerned if paste sealant would hold the pressure but I honestly don’t know *where* the pressure is exerting inside the pump.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

#2 the flat anti extrusion ring you mention fits into the groove in the gland nut closest to the circlip side and then the "O" ring is located in the groove beside the anti extrusion ring,


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

sorry, new key board and mouse giving me all sorts of problems like when typing here, I get switched back to Internet Explorer.

All I will mention about the hydraulic pump is --- you have to have minimal clearances around the pump gears and where these fit into the pump housing, I would suggest you google "hydraulic pumps" for info on clearances etc, so be careful with the gasket thicknesses.


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## Notaclue (Sep 3, 2018)

Hi All

After some time , I’m getting back to this log splitter rebuild project.

I made a hone to smooth the inside of the barrel because there were some scoring marks from the aluminum piston that was able to contact the steel barrel due to a worn out seal on the piston. Probably this was the root cause of the whole failure. Running the hone with ‘fine’ wet/dry Emory paper , water and a few drops of detergent, in a portable drill removed most of the scratches. My fingernail won’t catch but the scratches are not totally gone.

Now to install the seals:
The outside piston seal seems really tight, I’m hoping that by warming it in hot water and using Vaseline , that I can coax it onto the piston without damaging it.

The blue rod seal: a previous post said the ridge or flared end of the seal (in gland nut) should face towards the piston , which is reverse of what is in my picture below.

How about the small red plastic ring is that a part of the seal or is it packaging to be discarded?

The aluminum foil gasket for the hydraulic pump was too thin, when assembling with all screws tight the pump wouldn’t turn. I’m going to try again with thicker, soft copper sheet/foil material.

Spool valve: ordered and installed the seal kit and fixed the broken handle end with some welding and grinding.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

That is right, place the wedge end towards the piston, the red ring is a spacer ring and is fitted on the piston side of the seal, this is fitted after the rod seal.

Have been hoping to hear of your progress and do hope you will write the forum with your final results.


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## Notaclue (Sep 3, 2018)

Hello,
I finally got this project 99% completed: painted, cylinder restored w new seals, a new hose, hydraulic pump - back together and it seems to be working.
The hydraulic pump was the biggest bear, I had to find 0.005 thick brass sheet and high pressure sealant and hand cut new gaskets. The pump isn’t leaking. 
The spool valve is leaking slightly out the end despite new seals, which is disappointing.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Notaclue said:


> Hello,
> I finally got this project 99% completed: painted, cylinder restored w new seals, a new hose, hydraulic pump - back together and it seems to be working.
> The hydraulic pump was the biggest bear, I had to find 0.005 thick brass sheet and high pressure sealant and hand cut new gaskets. The pump isn’t leaking.
> The spool valve is leaking slightly out the end despite new seals, which is disappointing.
> ...


That is great to hear the splitter is working, was wondering how you got on with it, the spools are usually sealed with O rings and don't usually give trouble if the right size is used.


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Nice and thanks for coming back and giving us an update.......Not very many do after this long on a post......


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