# Old fathful gets a new life [I hope]



## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Well, after working the wheels of of my first ever tractor for the last 3 years, it is time to give her a new lease on life. With all the stuff I have had going on, with the baby, and building a new house, a lot of my stuff has been pretty neglected. Been just kinda holding on by ducktape and bailing wire.

Well, I pulled the 444 in the garage today, and am going to start a rebuild. I was just going to fix all the little things that need work, but I think I am just going to do it right, and go through the whole tractor.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Some of the big things it needs are some hoses replaced, and a full tune up.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

It also needs some wiring work. The lights don;t work, and it does not start with the key. I think one of the safty switches are bad. Also going to add a filter to the hydro system, and at least pull the head on the motor. Don;t know if I will go any ferther on the motor or not, depends how it looks.


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

Well, it's plain to me that your machine has not been abused, but it is a veteran of the lawn wars. Well worth fixing up. What is the primer grey fender I see in the background? Another project?


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Nope not abused, just worked hard. And a little neglected at time thanks to my busy life.




As for the fender. That would be a 1970 Mustang. A long term project I hope to one day finish.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

*ripping apart*

Well, had some time to get some work done last night. Started tearing her down. Got the hood off, and some of heat shelds removed. It is amazing how much stuff they packed in under this hood. It is FULL.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Well, tonight I hope to get the hydro system all drained. [all 11 qts] Also hoping to get to remove some of the small stuff to get to the motor. The mufler, cooler, battery, hydro resavore etc.


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ingersoll444 _
> 
> *Well, tonight I hope to get the hydro system all drained. [all 11 qts] Also hoping to get to remove some of the small stuff to get to the motor. The mufler, cooler, battery, hydro resavore etc. *


Hey Paul, 
They're a pretty straight forward machine to work on. Definitely have some jack stands handy if you decide to drop the final drive unit, they have an unusual way of attaching it. Let me know if you run into some stumpers. I had mine apart so many times, I can still probably disassemble them in my sleep. :smiles:


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks Argee. BTW working on a parts list for you if you still got that parts tractor. 


Got a lot done last night. Did a compression check on the motor, and it seems kinda low. [see engine fourm] Also got the fluid drained, and got most of the under hood shelds off. It is amazing how tight everything is packed in there.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Always amazes me how BIG those old Kohlors K's are. Can realy start to see the bones of the tractor now. LOTS of steel in this bad boy.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Oh, and Argee. I do plan to drop the rearend. I want to check those diff bolts. I KNOW you know the ones I am talking about. 
They say they were fixed on the later tractors, and mine is a late 444, but can't hurt to check.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

*WHOOO this don't look right*

OK, this looks pretty bad. The attached picture is of the PTO stub shaft. This is the bart that bolts to the motor, and the PTO cluch rides on it. It is just ALITTLE wiped. Strange thing? it worked fine. Guesss I need to take a good look at the clutch bearings huh? They SEEM good, but something did this.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Well, I got a lot of work done last night. Mostly still just small tare down stuff, but I have the motor ALMOST ready to come out. Just have to pull the pump off of it. [Any tips for me Argee??] Other than that, and finding the bad PTO shaft, things went good. Biggest problem I have had, is trying to keep the floor clean. [new house and all]


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

Ingersoll444,
Boy that is a familiar sight. I just tore down and replaced the engine in one of my 316s. And I can totally relate to keeping the floor clean. Amazing how much crud collects in the nooks and cranies. Good luck with the rebuild!


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks. Things are going prety smooth. Only a few parts found so far that have to be replaced.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

*Motors out!!*

Got the motor out tonight. Once I found out the the oil drain tube goes through the frame, it came right out. Also the pump adapter was a bit stuck, but as soon as I found out that nothing else was houlding the two together, I could break out the big tools, and "tap" it off.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Looks like I have a TON of cleaning to do on this tractor. Oil, grass, and dirt EVERYWERE!!! But at least I have not found anymore bad parts yet.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Well, now that the motor's out. Time to start the rebuild. I was not going to rebuild it, but I am going this far, might as well just do it. If I wait till it blows, it will just cost more to rebuild.

I will be starting a thred in the engine fourm about the motor rebuild, check it out.


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## amicks (Sep 16, 2003)

Paul, I'll be glad to quote you some prices for engine parts, just PM me. Tony


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks Tony. I hop to start tairing it down tomarrow. REALY hope I don't need much.


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## Old_Nodaker (Nov 1, 2003)

Boy, that looks like one heck of a tractor. I generally just skip over Ingersol stuff because I've never seen one and they don't seem to be available here in ND. Same for Gravely's. What horse power is that engine? What are the cooling coils on the front for? (I assume its a stick shift.) What doe it have for hydraulics? Looks like you're losing the battle of keeping the floor clean. It's just like a new car, get the first dent and get it over with I just spilled another quart of oil on the floor last night when I pinched a hydralic line $20 down the drain.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Old_Nodaker _
> *. What horse power is that engine? What are the cooling coils on the front for? (I assume its a stick shift.) What doe it have for hydraulics? *


It is a 14 HP Kohler. I hope I can get a little more out of it with the rebuild.

The cooler? That is for the hydraulic system. No standerd trans here. It is a full hydraulic system. Not a hydrostaic trans, a full hydro. Puts out about 8-10 gpm.


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

Looking good Paul  It only takes a few bolts to get the fenders and seat pan off. Then you can see what you have to do to get into the differential. It amazes me how well thought out these tractors were.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Well, things have been kinda on hold for a bit. Not to much progress. Baby has been sick, and with T'givens coming, things are a bit crazy. Now I am hoping to be able to paint the peises when I get it all apart. But don;t know if I want to buck up the money, and have them painted, or just spray bomb them. I think I will have the tin sent out to be sprayed, but don;t know about the frame and stuff. May just spray can that stuff.


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

Well now that your belly was stuffed with turkey, any news? Hopefully the baby is ok and you have had a chance to do some work on your machine.:thumbsup:


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bontai Joe _
> *Well now that your belly was stuffed with turkey, any news? Hopefully the baby is ok and you have had a chance to do some work on your machine.:thumbsup: *



Well..... No. I did start pulling the motor apart though. Got the head out getting milled. Mostly it got pushed off for a bit. I have to get my trailer going, so I can pick up a brushcutter, so thats first on the list right now.


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

So Paul,

It's been 4 days.:smiles: And I know you got buried in snow:smiles: Any progess on your 444?:smiles:


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Argee _
> *So Paul,
> 
> It's been 4 days.:smiles: And I know you got buried in snow:smiles: Any progess on your 444?:smiles: *


Well?? ahhh no.

It kinda got pushed to the side for a bit with the work needed on my trailer. Well, now with the two feet of snow, I don't think I will be picking up that brushcutter I needed the trailer for. SOOO trailer will be out, and in comes the plow truck, becouse I had a TON of problens with it this year. Also NEEd to dig out the snow blower from the back of the shed. Of corse that will mean no more snow if I do. Oh and of corse the snow blower needs work also. Carb is SHOT. Tryed to rebuild it a few times, and it's just to far gone. SOOOO I will be loking for a carb when and if I get it out. No wonder I do not get anything done.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

bumped up for pebbles


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

HEY PAUL since toba hasn't done his lattice hows the 444 coming along. Got the thing back together, motor rebuilt using it:question:


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

was hoping this one would come up Jody.  


Why yes, thanks for asking, I HAVE started working on it agean. 

Well wile I was waiting for parts for my 224 what is ALSO down, I got some motor work done. Pretty much all ready to go back into the tractor. I struck out big time trying to fix, or find a used PTO shaft, so I orderd a new one yesterday. [OUCH!!! over $100!!!] 

Also did some wireing repairs on it wile I was doing the same on my 224. Still have to rebuild the carb, and put the PTO back together and the motor will be set to go. 

Once the 224 is up and fixed the rest of the tractor will come back into the shop. I have a few oil lines to fix, and started work on adding a hydro filter, so just have to finish it up. Also started working on the mowing deck. I have two decks, that I am putting together to make one good one. Got them mostly dissambled, and just have to pick up some new bearings, and a few little things. So THIS one is moving foward. Slowly becouse of the 224 problems. And sence thats my only mower, that is first on the fix list. The 444 is next up.


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

Paul haven't heard from you on the old 444 have you done anything else with it:question:


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jodyand _
> *Paul haven't heard from you on the old 444 have you done anything else with it:question: *



LOL

Well belive it or not, yes I have.  

Went back to work on the motor last weekend, and now waiting for some parts to come in. I also had the bolt holes in the fan shrude that holds the coil break out so I need to weld in a patch, and atatch a nut to the back side so I can install the coil. With fall comming, and the leaf vac setup to work on the 444 I figured I better get my but in gear.


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## robmints (Sep 7, 2004)

Bontai Joe told me about this forum a week ago when I got a Case 444. Now I know I don't know what I'm doing because I started at the other end. Taking the fenders and seat off.



I think the control unit underneath is frozen up. The hydraulic system is the only thing I haven't touched. Help!

http://home.comcast.net/~robmints/dcp_0574.jpg


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Welcome to the board robmints!


Looks like you got a little work there your self. Whats the tractor doing to make you think the valve is frozen?


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## robmints (Sep 7, 2004)

The two control levers that come out of the dash on either side of the steering wheel won't move the diverting plungers. Ingersoll444, thanks for the welcome. I don't call it work. I think I'll end in time and material at about 10 grand for a thousand dollar tractor. So it must be fun. Right?


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by robmints _
> *The two control levers that come out of the dash on either side of the steering wheel won't move the diverting plungers. Ingersoll444, thanks for the welcome. I don't call it work. I think I'll end in time and material at about 10 grand for a thousand dollar tractor. So it must be fun. Right? *


Yes it is fun   


One thing to check on your tractor, is at the bottom of the rods there is a little nylon bushing. These tend to wear out, and mesup the controls for the valves. Probably not it, but wirth a shot. Also I have a manual for the valve assambly. If you dont have one, tell me, and I will post it to the board. 

I have a bunch of manuals, so any other you may need just ask, and I will see what I can do. 

Good luck, and enjoy your stay here.


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

Thanks Ingersoll 444 for helping out Robmints. He was asking help in another forum and there aren't many guys out there that own these machines, so I sent him here in hopes you could give him the info he needed.


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## robmints (Sep 7, 2004)

Thanks guys. Joe also told me Mayberrys was a dealer so I called Bob and ordered some manuals. I don't know what they are but I got them anyway. He said they would be useful. The levers are free but the plungers will not move. I have another problem, I broke a drill off trying to drill out one of the exhaust bolts. Any ideas. Carbide drill? What's a tap desintigrator?


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## farmallmaniac (Feb 16, 2004)

got a picture of that plow truck?


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## casenut446 (Oct 30, 2004)

*Low Compression*

Paul

You mentioned in an earlier post that the compression seemed low on your Kohler engine. Remember that Kohler's have an internal, automatic compression release to make starting and cranking easier. It holds the exhaust valve off it's seat for most of the compression stroke, so you will not get anything like a normal reading on a compression guage unless you can spin the engine backwards while taking the readings.

Good luck with your project.

John D.


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## memmurphy (Sep 18, 2003)

Welcome to Tractorforum casenut446! :friends: 

Mark


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

Welcome aboard casenut446!!


Ya I found that out after I tore it down  But at least the head gasket WAS blown, so wile my testing was falty, the out come was the same. 


Working bit by bit getting this back together. Motor is almost done, and getting time to bring the tractor back in side, and start putting the two back together.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Welcome to Tractor Forum casenut446! :friends: :cheers: Good point about the exhaust valve too. :thumbsup:


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## balmoralboy (May 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Keweenaw4310 _
> *Once a project gets put on hold and the parts get put aside, it's hard for me to get back going on it. When you get it taking up garage space again, I'm sure you'll get it done.
> 
> Maybe about the time you finish this project, Durwood will get to the point on his bible prophecy thread. *


And somebody will visit Toba and get his lattice done!


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Any updates on this Paul?

Great little (loooonnnngggg) project. 

Need pics, need a fix.

SnowMower


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by snowmower _
> *Any updates on this Paul?
> 
> Great little (loooonnnngggg) project.
> ...



ohh ya sure Its all done ya thats it  

    


I did get a lot of the parts I need to finish up, but have been pretty much bogged down in the "getting ready for the winter" projects. I am planning on draging the main tractor back up to the drive this weekend, so it does not get burryed in the back when the snow hits. Maybe get that done this weekend.


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

This isn't going to turn into Toba's lattice is it????:furious: :furious:


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Argee _
> *This isn't going to turn into Toba's lattice is it????:furious: :furious: *


Speaking of that:truth: 

Hey Toba have you put it up yet:furious:


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Argee _
> *This isn't going to turn into Toba's lattice is it????:furious: :furious: *



Sure is looking that way isn't it?   


No realy got to get her going this winter. The 224 is getting realiy likda old in the tooth[just under 2000 hours] and with the weekly 3 acre mowings, I have to have another tractor out there.


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