# Craftsman?



## wjjones

I just got a ys4500 with a 24 hp Briggs Intek twin for $100. I found a short to ground, and fixed it because it was completely dead the hr meter wouldnt even come on. I found that, and fixed that now everything is hot, and it turns over but it is belching back through the carb the hr meter says 170.1 hrs. What do you guys think flywheel key, or broken cam? I will try to get some pics on here this weekend.


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## dangeroustoys56

Wow - nice score - pretty soon youll have them all lined up in the yard as well - LOL! 

Id check the flywheel key first ( easiest to do) - to check the valves/cam you should be able to tell by simply pulling the valve covers off and cranking by hand to see if the rockers move at all.

One of my first tractors i ever bot had a broken flywheel key - 5HP flathead briggs - it sucked in thru the muffler and spit gas out the carb - flywheel spun 180 degrees out of wack - put a new key in it and it ran great.


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## Bill Kapaun

I'd pull the valve covers and look for something amiss.


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## wjjones

Well I popped the flywheel, and the key is intack so does that mean the cam is broke, or could there be some other issue?


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## HickoryNut

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Wow - nice score - pretty soon youll have them all lined up in the yard as well - LOL!
> 
> Id check the flywheel key first ( easiest to do) - to check the valves/cam you should be able to tell by simply pulling the valve covers off and cranking by hand to see if the rockers move at all.
> 
> One of my first tractors i ever bot had a broken flywheel key - 5HP flathead briggs - it sucked in thru the muffler and spit gas out the carb - flywheel spun 180 degrees out of wack - put a new key in it and it ran great.


 
DITTO.........I agree with DT!


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## dangeroustoys56

Wjjones: to be on the safe side it might not hurt to put a new shear key in - ive had a OHV motor snap the flywheel key and it looked normal. Plus theyre cheep insurance.

I kept trying to start the OHV motor and it kept popping keys( not much, just a hair) - turned out it had a timing issue inside the motor ( bot it 'reconditioned' from a lawntractor shop- they ended up fixing it for free).

I had a teccy OHV motor where the rockers were literally flapping in the breeze when they came loose on the PO - ended up setting them ( all the original parts were good) per spec and making a pair of locknuts ( to fit under the valve cover) - nearly fell over when it fired right up.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Wjjones: to be on the safe side it might not hurt to put a new shear key in - ive had a OHV motor snap the flywheel key and it looked normal. Plus theyre cheep insurance.
> 
> I kept trying to start the OHV motor and it kept popping keys( not much, just a hair) - turned out it had a timing issue inside the motor ( bot it 'reconditioned' from a lawntractor shop- they ended up fixing it for free).
> 
> I had a teccy OHV motor where the rockers were literally flapping in the breeze when they came loose on the PO - ended up setting them ( all the original parts were good) per spec and making a pair of locknuts ( to fit under the valve cover) - nearly fell over when it fired right up.



Its worth a try I did take this one completely out though, and it was not cracked, or anything. I plan to pull the valve covers this weekend to see if the valves are operating, or not.


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## wjjones

Well I found the problem the exhaust valve rod had fell out on the left bank the valves on both sides are way out of adjustment.. Does the info below look correct for the adjusting procedure?

Remove valve covers, and spark plugs, do one cylinder at a time, turn engine over by hand until top valve is completely pushed open, you can now adjust the lower"closed" valve, use a 13mm wrench and #30 torx, loosen jam nut use torx driver and set valve to .004 thousands with feeler guage, hold adjuster in place and tighten jam nut. recheck clearance, then rotate engine till lower valve opens completely and adjust top valve the same way, repeat on other cylinder.


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## wjjones

Also would like to find out if anyone knows? Are the push rods supposed to have a slight bend to them, or are they supposed to be straight? All 4 have a slight curve to them, and I wondered if this is correct, or are they bent?


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## Bill Kapaun

They should be straight.

Don't know where you found THAT procedure.

Piston 1/4" PAST TDC.
BOTH valves of THAT cylinder can now be adjusted.


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## wjjones

Bill Kapaun said:


> They should be straight.
> 
> Don't know where you found THAT procedure.
> 
> Piston 1/4" PAST TDC.
> BOTH valves of THAT cylinder can now be adjusted.


 Does 1/4th past tdc put them both at center stroke, or slack for adjustment?


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## Bill Kapaun

!/4" past gets you off the compression release "bump" on the cam.
That is your "slack" point to adjust them BOTH.


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## wjjones

Ok Thankyou Bill..


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## wjjones

I decided to take it to a friend of mine that runs a equipment shoppe $25 plus parts which is just the 4 push rods $5.75 each. I am going to watch him so I can learn how to adjust them on my other mower myself. I have never tried adjusting them before, and dont want to over, or under tighten them. He said to loose, and they fall out to tight, and it will burn a valve. Does that seem like a good price?


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## Bill Kapaun

It seems like a very reasonable price.
You could maybe save $5 by ordering the parts online and waiting a week.
Then your friend would probably charge $20 more!

Your part#'s are "probably"
690981 & 690982 (you didn't specify which Briggs, so I'm assuming a 445677)

Google 
Briggs 690981 & Briggs 690982
and see for yourself


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## dangeroustoys56

Dang - bent all 4 push rods? Well if thats all thats wrong with it , it should be a sort of easy fix . 

Every so often ill pull the valve covers on my OHV motors n check the rockers , make sure theyre still in place - keep forgetting to get a feeler guage at harbor freight - theyre over due for an adjustment /check ( ive never checked em- doubt the PO's ever did either).


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## wjjones

Yep I am only paying what it cost him to get them 690981= $4.25 each, and 690982= $5.73 each + shipping. I wonder what could cause it to bend them that way with so few hrs on the engine. Lack of service, abuse, etc? I will do as you mentioned in the future DT my uncle had a Wizard mower he had to put the rocker back on about once a month, and retighten the rod keeper. He never did figure out why it kept getting loose but he mowed with it for 15+ years that way. Bill I would have done it myself but I have never tried it before, and didnt want to risk over, or under tightening the keeper, and messing the valves up. This guy has always done me right so I know I can trust him to do a good job, and not try to rip me off. I will post up what he ends up charging me when he gets done.


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## dangeroustoys56

Its worth it then to have him do the job.

Well, like my teccy motor- the rockers will loosen up - they 'hold' the push rods in - when they loosen, the push rod starts moving around and eventually will just fall out.

I suppose i was lucky that when the push rod fell out on the PO the motor just stopped- he never attempted to fix it , just parked it in his barn for 10 years till i bot it.

I was lucky to have a freind that tinkered with his tractor - he helped my set it back up - i found the proper rocker nut dimensions , had to 'modify' it to fit ( used a grinding wheel) - they never came loose after that .

Actually the first reassembly i didnt use the lock nuts - i checked it a couple days later after running it around and they were already comming loose - then the locknuts went on.

The funny thing was in a teccy motor manual i bot - it shows the extra lock nut - mine never had them or were removed.

I never thought to check the 12HP OHV teccy motor in my shed to see if they have them - same motor but came off a LT12 craftsman - the loose rockers were on a dynamark.


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## wjjones

What kind of pressure should I be getting on a test with the 24 hp Briggs intek v-twin?


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## Bill Kapaun

You really can't "accurately" test compression since the compression release is in play plus cranking speed would have a noticeable effect.
Since it's a V Twin, I think I'd just expect them to be similar to each other and hopefully not near ZERO. (maybe at least 50-60????)

Leak down tests are the preferred method.


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## wjjones

I did it with it running for just a few seconds, and both where at 150. I know your not supposed to test it running because it can damage the compression tester but as you mentioned the release doesnt allow an accurate bump test. Does 150psi sound good for it running?


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## dangeroustoys56

wow - 150 is on the lower end for automobiles. 

To keep the motor from running , just pull the spark plug wires off - will turn over but not start. ( ive seen a twin cylender run on one piston before)

Sounds like the rings /valves are good. I googled it and it says 85 and up is good - anything less then 60 or 20psi between cyclenders is bad.


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## Bill Kapaun

Let's say I wouldn't be concerned that compression is an issue.

150 PSI for some automobiles would be way over spec. Look at the old flat head engines!

Comparing a lawn mower engine that isn't designed to run over 3600 RPM with an auto engine that has valve timing/overlap etc designed to run much at much higher RPM's just indicates lack of knowledge.


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## wjjones

I am going to retest today with the with both wires off so it wont start the reason I asked about compression rating is I couldnt find any info online. I looked a B&S .com but its all pig latin to me they try to get to technical. I just need poor white boy english so I can get the info I need which is what psi should I be seeing on a cylinder test. I priced this engine at $1359.99 and I want to keep it in good running condition to avoid having to buy a new one, and it might just be me but it seems it is lacking the power it should have lately.


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## Bill Kapaun

I wouldn't be concerned about the compression myself.
Some mechanics feel that if you give the flywheel a quick turn and it "bounces back", all is good.

What would you do IF the compression isn't the way you want?

You can find engines for much less.
All you need is a Model 44XXXX with the PTO stub, oil filter (or not) & fuel pump (or not) matching.
Fuel pump matching isn't mandatory, but MUCH more convenient.

The charging system/VR/flywheel can be swapped off the old engine if it doesn't match.

Just download the IPL for your engine and the replacement engine to make sure they use the same flywheels/stators. There will usually be several options, depending on the charge system.


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## wjjones

Yeah I meant to ask, and forgot how do they classify the engines such as (Short Block), long block, etc? Example if I wanted to take all my exterior parts off to put on a new one what would be the definition of that engine? Long block?


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## Bill Kapaun

That would be a short block.
You'd probably find complete engines to be a better deal though, IF you shop around.
As I mentioned, download the IPL's and compare.
Chances are you can use the old engine for parts if needed. Heads, sump or???


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## dangeroustoys56

Personally, from experience - i find the OHV motors i own are pretty low on power in general - the flatheads i have run circles around them.

I did a test between my stock 12HP flathead '99 murray 6 speed and my stock 16.5HP OHV '03 murray 6 speed - the 99 seemed to have tons more power than the 03 and the 99 was actually faster as well .

You can get more power from OHV motors than flattys tho - but it gets a lil expensive tho.... 

I saw a 25HP OHV twin racing tractor, motor was tweeked and bored out to 70HP - ran in 60-80mph range. The guy probably had more then $5000 into the motor alone tho....

It could work with stock tractors as well: change the valves, put different rockers and a cam in, slightly bigger bore carb or some carb work done ( more gas means more power) - im sure briggs detunes and chokes these motors to meet smog regs .

If longevity is an issue, id keep an eye on CL or ebay for a good used running motor or tractor with the same motor - you dont really need a brand new one. 

Ive bot some super cheep rusted out tractors and theyve had the best motors on them - a couple examples are my 95 18HP twin and my 86 18HP twin - both were left with nasty old gas in them, the 86 18HP had water up to the carb top - with some cleaning, both run pretty darn good for seriously neglected motors.

Id say if the oil is checked/changed regular, regular maintence performed , not over revved ( thats the big killer) - it should last a long time.


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## wjjones

Yep I priced this complete engine for $1359.99 but there has to be one cheaper somewhere. I am just thinking in advance to keep the old mower going longer but with that price it would be cheaper to buy a new mower.


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## dangeroustoys56

Is it a verticle shaft motor or horizontal shaft - i looked at Northern tools and found this:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_engines+briggs-stratton-
vertical?seeAll=1

Theres a 27HP v twin for like $900 - they also have horizontal shaft engines as well.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Is it a verticle shaft motor or horizontal shaft - i looked at Northern tools and found this:
> 
> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_engines+briggs-stratton-
> vertical?seeAll=1
> 
> Theres a 27HP v twin for like $900 - they also have horizontal shaft engines as well.




Its a Briggs Intek v-twin 24hp 446677-0463-E1 that one is close though. It wouldnt matter as long as everything hooks up, and the shaft lenght, and diameter are the same.


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## Bill Kapaun

http://www.tulsaenginewarehouse.com/44Q777-3137


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## wjjones

Well got the mower back yesterday he ended up charging me $25 that was for the one rod he had to replace, and to adjust the valves/ rods. So I took my other mower to him, and for $20 he adjusted the valves on it too. So it only cost me $45 for both mowers so I guess thats pretty good.


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## dangeroustoys56

Yeah at any other shop that woulda been a whole lot more - specially at shop labor prices.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Yeah at any other shop that woulda been a whole lot more - specially at shop labor prices.



Yep I am lucky he is a neighbor, and a honest person I also learned how to do it myself from now on, and that was worth $45 by itself. I have known him for 15 years now so I knew I could trust him. I am just glad its fixed now I just need to service it, and find some grass to try it out on..


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## dangeroustoys56

I PM'd my '03 murray the other day ( well still actually sitting in the shed- had the 'honey do' list last couple days) - pulled the valve cover to see whats up in there - stuff is all tight, cept when the valves are closed the rockers are a 'touch' loose ( if thats normal) - time to get a feeler guage and check 'em.

Tell ya, a coat of wax on the tractor makes it nice n shiney , along with the tune parts i threw at it , should work better.

Also checked the carb on it ( was a couple years ago last checked it) - float bowl was gummy as well - todays 'good ' gas at work again... and thats using stuff to treat the gas - Ill just have to start draining the float bowls between uses.....


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## jhngardner367

I have to agree with Bill. Briggs/Stratton usually just says that if you crank it,and put a finger over the sparkplug hole,if it tries to push your finger off,it is acceptable.
Like Bill,however,I prefer the leakdown test.


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## wjjones

I did a compression test, and both cylinders have 120 psi + I noticed though it is still burping back through the carb. What would cause it to try to spit, and backfire through the carb?


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## Bill Kapaun

How does it run?

Backfiring can be bad fuel to bad timing on the cam to ??


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## wjjones

Bill Kapaun said:


> How does it run?
> 
> Backfiring can be bad fuel to bad timing on the cam to ??



It seems to run pretty smooth except for the backfiring through the carb. I noticed the backfiring before the valve adjustment, and it is way less now but still there.


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## wjjones

I think I found the problem the intake is melted on the left side as you can see in the picture. I think this is where the guy ran it with the bent push rod. When I first inspected the push rods the left bank intake rod was loose laying in the bottom of the housing. The second picture is the right side, and as you can see the intake is smooth inside. So would you say this was causing the problem with the backfiring through the carb?


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## wjjones

Here is the mower, and engine top cover.


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## dangeroustoys56

Probably doesnt help - briggs motors like to run best with smooth bores ( no slick smooth- just factory finish) - could be running a bit rich also .

Is that plastic or cast iron intake ? On my cast iron intakes i use a copper pipe fitting brush to clean em out - not sure how to clean a plastic one w/o damaging it.


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## wjjones

It is plastic I took the carb, and intake off my other mower which runs perfect put it on this engine, and it runs better but still has a sputter to it. It is still like its trying to backfire through the carb. I put the carb, and intake back on my other mower (you can see in the registry) that is identical to this mower with the same engine, and it runs perfect?? What else could be causing this issue of backfiring through the carb?


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## wjjones

Ok today I drained all the old fuel out, and changed the fuel filter put in some fresh fuel but I am still getting that slight backfire through the carb. Anybody got any ideas?

So to date I have.
1. Installed new rods.
2. Adjusted the push rods.
3. New spark plugs.
4. Changed the fuel intake.
5. Drained, and cleaned the fuel system.
6. Inspected the flywheel key.


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## dangeroustoys56

Only things that sounds like is timing or running way over rich?


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Only things that sounds like is timing or running way over rich?



What on the engine would cause that? The valves? I would think its not the carb because the carb, and intake off my other mower did the exact same thing. I put it back on my other mower, and it runs perfect? I have 2 ys4500 Craftsman one is the 2006 24hp Briggs intek v-twin (387 hrs), and the other I bought off CL is a 2007 Briggs intek v-twin (170 hrs), and its on a ys4500 as well. They are identical engines, on everything except one is a 54", and the other is a 48" deck.


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## Bill Kapaun

Try swapping the ignition coils.


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## wjjones

Bill Kapaun said:


> Try swapping the ignition coils.



Thats a good idea... Everytime I go out there to start I start it, and it fires right up. I didnt think one of the coils might be misfiring but when I put the tester on it both are firing while running.


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## wjjones

After draining the old gas I will wait to get the new intake on it, and post up if that fixes it, or not.


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## Bill Kapaun

Another option is a bad cam.
Rotate engine and see if both intake & both exhaust valves have the same amount of travel.
Might be a "flat" lobe on the cam.


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## wjjones

Bill Kapaun said:


> Another option is a bad cam.
> Rotate engine and see if both intake & both exhaust valves have the same amount of travel.
> Might be a "flat" lobe on the cam.



Both sets on both sides do open, and close but I do need to check the travel on them. Thankyou for another idea..


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## wjjones

Still nada so I have decided to tear it down completely to find out what is going on. I think its the bottom shear key, or timing gear on the crankshaft.


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## wjjones

Ok so I tore it comepletely down, and everything is as it should be so its looking like it was just bad gas, and the melted intake for now. But while I had it tore down I discovered a repair spot in the side of the block where it had thrown a rod, and busted a hole in the side of the engine. Does this seem like it could be an issue to worry about? Other than backfiring through the carb there was no knocking, or any indication of the piston, or other internal parts being damaged.


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## jhngardner367

The last time I saw an intake in that condition,the engine had a bad valve/seat contact. Recut the seat,and ground the valve,and it ran great!


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## wjjones

jhngardner367 said:


> The last time I saw an intake in that condition,the engine had a bad valve/seat contact. Recut the seat,and ground the valve,and it ran great!


 These where not bad but they where not operating because the guy used the mower with the intake rod off on the left bank. He was running it on one cylinder for awhile how long I am not sure. But do you think the repaired block is ok, or should I just find another engine?


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## dangeroustoys56

If it appears no internal damage has been done ( like where the cam rides) or anything else out of wack , it should be ok. 

I have a couple motors that threw rods, but didnt leave the motor case , one was totally destroyed inside ( tore up the cam area into the valve spring area, and where the governer sits as well), the other couple seemed like new, other then a few scuff marks in unimportant parts of the case. Havent gotten around to rebuilding em yet ( guess im just busy or chicken to try it).

I suppose if theres any doubts, replace the block while its all in pieces.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> If it appears no internal damage has been done ( like where the cam rides) or anything else out of wack , it should be ok.
> 
> I have a couple motors that threw rods, but didnt leave the motor case , one was totally destroyed inside ( tore up the cam area into the valve spring area, and where the governer sits as well), the other couple seemed like new, other then a few scuff marks in unimportant parts of the case. Havent gotten around to rebuilding em yet ( guess im just busy or chicken to try it).
> 
> I suppose if theres any doubts, replace the block while its all in pieces.




This one did come through, and they repaired the hole I was just curious if it would be ok this way? It ran when I got it but backfired through the carb which I am pretty sure was the melted intake. It also had the one bent push rod on the left intake valve. I installed a new rod, and adjusted the rest so now I am just waiting for the new intake. But my original concern was will the block hole repair hold?


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## dangeroustoys56

Is it welded? Aluminum is a pain to weld correctly ( not to mention the need to be heated before welding) and contamination from oil seeping into the block..... I dunno. Depends how clean a job the patch was.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Is it welded? Aluminum is a pain to weld correctly ( not to mention the need to be heated before welding) and contamination from oil seeping into the block..... I dunno. Depends how clean a job the patch was.



Yep but the weld looks like aluminum too.


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## dangeroustoys56

Yeah itd have to be - nothing else will stick to aluminum . Good aluminum welds are suppose to look like 'stacked dimes' .

I dunno - it might not hurt to look around for a good used block/motor anyway - just in case....personally id hate to go thru putting it all back together and having it fail after all that work.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Yeah itd have to be - nothing else will stick to aluminum . Good aluminum welds are suppose to look like 'stacked dimes' .
> 
> I dunno - it might not hurt to look around for a good used block/motor anyway - just in case....personally id hate to go thru putting it all back together and having it fail after all that work.




Yep I think I will they call it a "Cylinder assembly" Briggs part# 793564. I would like to find a good used one the new ones are $202, and up.


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## wjjones

Does anyone know where I can get a diagram for tearing this engine down, and putting it back together? I would like to tear it down to check the cam, and lower timing key.

446677-0463-E1


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## wjjones

I think I am going to take it to my uncle he is retired bored, and itching to have something to tinker on. I just have to buy any parts needed if any are bad, and he doesnt charge any labor. It gives him something to do, and I am at the point of setting it on fire in the backyard.


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## dangeroustoys56

Yeah its frustrating sometimes, working on stuff and still doesnt seem to run right . If anything comes out of it, you still have a decent mower chassis to put another motor in - can always look for an old skool twin opposed motor to put in it .


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Yeah its frustrating sometimes, working on stuff and still doesnt seem to run right . If anything comes out of it, you still have a decent mower chassis to put another motor in - can always look for an old skool twin opposed motor to put in it .




I have a guy that has a 20 hp v-twin intek for $200 he said it has 100 hrs on it.


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## wjjones

Well I am really stumped now as bad as I hated to I went ahead, and tore it down just to find nothing wrong with the cam, timing key, or any internal part?? The timing marks line up as well the last picture is of the repair spot where I assume it threw a rod you can see the little tiny hole, and the outside, and inside where it is patched is smooth.


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## jhngardner367

Walter,who painted the flywheel ?
Sometimes paint can interfere with the firing,since it blocks/disturbs the magnetic field in the coil(s),especially if one coil is weak.
As for the repair,it looks ok,and shouldn't bother the operation of the engine,as long as it isn't leaking crankcase pressure/vacuum to the out side.
If it fires right up,but still backfires through the carb,I would check the valve seats/faces,and do a leakdown test,to see if one valve isn't slightly off-seat/bent .
Other than dirty/stale fuel,or an intake leak,that's all I can think of that would cause the problem.
The way the manifold was melted,shows a leak from exhaust to intake ,on that cylinder.


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## wjjones

I painted the flywheel I also painted the flywheel on my other mower that is identical to this one 6 years ago, and it runs perfect. I did a compression test it tested at 150psi per cylinder, and I did a pressure test for about 10 minutes, and it didnt drop any. I cleaned out the entire fuel system, and added fuel stabile back to the fresh gas. I think I know what it is though stay tuned, and Saturday I will post if I have found what I think it is, or not.


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## wjjones

wjjones said:


> I painted the flywheel I also painted the flywheel on my other mower that is identical to this one 6 years ago, and it runs perfect. I did a compression test it tested at 150psi per cylinder, and I did a pressure test for about 10 minutes, and it didnt drop any. I cleaned out the entire fuel system, and added fuel stabile back to the fresh gas. I think I know what it is though stay tuned, and Saturday I will post if I have found what I think it is, or not.




Is 100 ft lbs correct for the crankcase/ oil pan bolts?


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## txsteve

If you seen 100 someplace..Double check it..It might be in Ft Inches. .
That's around 8 Ft Lbs


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## dangeroustoys56

Seems alot for pan bolts - id double check and make sure. When i pulled the pan on a 12HP briggs to change the crank seal - i just tightened them by hand, then gave em a lil extra till they were 'tight' - i havent had any issues with leakage - the pan had locator pins so it wouldnt move around even if it loosened a bit.

For a lil extra security, might not hurt to put a lil dab of lock tite on the bolts.


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## wjjones

I thought it seemed to be a litttle much seeing how the pan is cast aluminium.


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## wjjones

wjjones said:


> I painted the flywheel I also painted the flywheel on my other mower that is identical to this one 6 years ago, and it runs perfect. I did a compression test it tested at 150psi per cylinder, and I did a pressure test for about 10 minutes, and it didnt drop any. I cleaned out the entire fuel system, and added fuel stabile back to the fresh gas. I think I know what it is though stay tuned, and Saturday I will post if I have found what I think it is, or not.




Well I checked what I thought it might be today but it wasnt the (fuel pump). I was doing a timing check before planning on putting the pan back on when I found that on the left cylinder inside there is a big chunk of material missing. If you go back, and view post #67 in the first picture at the 3 o-clock position. You can see it through the spoke hole in the cam gear it is a half moon shaped chunk missing there. I am guessing that is why it holds pressure in a test as long as the piston is up. I decided to part this one out, and find a good used engine to install on the mower.


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## dangeroustoys56

Well, you initally spent $100 on the tractor - some cash on trying to fix it - really for the chassis and parts off the motor its still worth more than $100 overall - its annoying, but you can still pick up another motor for it easily and have a decent tractor plus some spare parts or sell them. 

One time i bot 2 tractors for $200 - bot were rusted out POS's and my first real buyers regret purchase . One was a RER murray that had a running 11HP briggs motor, while the rest of it was basically rusted out - the motor went on another RER murray which i sold for $100 cash and got his broken 99 murray in exchange for it (was worth $200-300 alone even with the bad motor because i had a spare motor for it) - the other tractor, a 70's simplicity, didnt run , deck was all fibreglassed up - a real mess - so i took it apart and scrapped most of it ( which i regret because i couldve gotten it running eventually - just didnt have room back then) . It was annoying, but i did get my money back technically .


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Well, you initally spent $100 on the tractor - some cash on trying to fix it - really for the chassis and parts off the motor its still worth more than $100 overall - its annoying, but you can still pick up another motor for it easily and have a decent tractor plus some spare parts or sell them.
> 
> One time i bot 2 tractors for $200 - bot were rusted out POS's and my first real buyers regret purchase . One was a RER murray that had a running 11HP briggs motor, while the rest of it was basically rusted out - the motor went on another RER murray which i sold for $100 cash and got his broken 99 murray in exchange for it (was worth $200-300 alone even with the bad motor because i had a spare motor for it) - the other tractor, a 70's simplicity, didnt run , deck was all fibreglassed up - a real mess - so i took it apart and scrapped most of it ( which i regret because i couldve gotten it running eventually - just didnt have room back then) . It was annoying, but i did get my money back technically .




Thats my thinking exactly DT, and still come out better than forking out the $$ for a new one. I just wanted it for a backup mower anyway so a good used engine will be just fine.


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## dangeroustoys56

Its always good to have backup mowers:lmao:


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Its always good to have backup mowers:lmao:




Yep.... I have had a few answer my WTB engine on CL, and they are ranging from $150 to $300 for a good used engine. They have all said I could hear them run before I buy one, and check it over good. I should have inspected this one better but $100 for the whole mower I cant complain.


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## dangeroustoys56

Thats something hardly anyone seems to offer - starting a motor theyre selling- i suppose for $300 the buyer would want to hear it ( i know i would) . I know when i sold that one RER i had a battery and gas in it, polished it all up - i said to the guy " fire it up- turn on the deck and run around with it" . 

I told him all the lil things he needed to do when he ran it and it had a used motor off another tractor on it- it wasnt original to the tractor.

He asked why i was selling it and i said " I dont like RER's - i like regular tractors " and then he offered his tractor up and a $100 cash ( i had $300 on my RER) so i said " sold!" . 

When i go to look at a cheep tractor - i expect it not to run, actually expect it to be parts, if the price is right i just hand over my money and take it home - if it has a motor, i check it over and try to fire it up - more often then not the motors fire right up and runs fine. I shut it down and then do a carb clean, go over the motor and know itll be a good motor.

A surprising one was out of 4 tractors i bot up the street - I went thru each to see if they ran - 2 fired right up, one didnt ( no spark) and then the one filled with water up to the carb( was a 18HP horizontal twin briggs) - i never expected that to ever run, but with some cleaning it kicked right over. Water hadnt gotten into the insides, it was stopped at the pistons.


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## wjjones

Here is a picture of the busted spot with everything out of the way so you can see it better.


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## dangeroustoys56

Wow - has more holes then swiss cheese . Ive had a few motors with thrown rods - things were so twisted and bent out of shape inside it was impossible to rebuild it , yet ive had some where the rod snapped clean and easy and did no damage inside.

Its possible the clean break was while it was at idle, while the twisted ones were at mowing speed .

It seems odd that the person that fixed it would even bother to repair it, unless it was either to just sell it or see if it would be an easy fix.

That looks like a hard break, to even break the piston sleeve like that.


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## wjjones

I think he thought fixing the external hole would be enough to fix the engine but this break was to close to the ring area. I just cant figure out why it still tested at 150 psi on that cylinder, and held pressure.


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## dangeroustoys56

If two rings created a seal - it wouldve held - do the rings look like theyve been replaced? 

It was similar to my GTII - couldnt believe that water didnt leak at all thru the rings , and it was seriously used and abused.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> If two rings created a seal - it wouldve held - do the rings look like theyve been replaced?
> 
> It was similar to my GTII - couldnt believe that water didnt leak at all thru the rings , and it was seriously used and abused.




No the rings look like the original ones. I wondered if I could re-sleeve that cylinder?


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## dangeroustoys56

Should be able to - i imagine youd need to super heat the block up to pop the old sleeve out and put the new one in - i know it can be done because i had a tractor years ago that had been resleeved .

For kicks id put just the crank in and see if it has any 'wobble' with a dial indicator - same for the cam - its possible things couldve been 'adjusted' slightly when it blew up the first time. Id also see about fixing those other holes.

I wouldnt spend too much on it tho.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Should be able to - i imagine youd need to super heat the block up to pop the old sleeve out and put the new one in - i know it can be done because i had a tractor years ago that had been resleeved .
> 
> For kicks id put just the crank in and see if it has any 'wobble' with a dial indicator - same for the cam - its possible things couldve been 'adjusted' slightly when it blew up the first time. Id also see about fixing those other holes.
> 
> I wouldnt spend too much on it tho.



I think I will hold out for a used engine, or a cylinder assembly.


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## dangeroustoys56

Keep an eye out - something will come along soon.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Keep an eye out - something will come along soon.




I sure hope so I would like to have it ready for March so that gives me about 3 months.


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## wjjones

I found one finally I bought a Huskee Gt today with the identcal 24 hp Briggs Intek, and its 54" cut for $200 cash. I will post up some pictures of it when I go pick it up. It is like the one in the link only it looks a little better it needs a fuel pump which I already have from the old engine.

http://www.biddergy.com/detail.asp?id=159878&pic=5#img


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## dangeroustoys56

So the motor is comming off the MTD then or are you just keeping it as the mower?


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## wjjones

I plan to rob the engine off this one to put on the other mower but its hard to decide. Sorry the picture of the mower is a little dark.


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## dangeroustoys56

Can always put the White on craigslist - even w/o a motor.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Can always put the White on craigslist - even w/o a motor.




Yep its a Huskee/ MTD Gt frame with the 54" deck I plan to put it on there, and just put make me an offer for it.


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## wjjones

Well I have removed the engine, and I have a guy coming Saturday to pick up the frame for $50, and I sold the heads off the old motor for $50 so that helps with what I spent on the parts mower. I have torn down the replacement engine cleaned it up, and I am in the process of putting it back together. I plan to pull the sump first to clean it out before re-installing it on the mower after seeing the condition of the one on the bad engine I wouldnt be able to not remove it to be cleaned. I did find another site for the sump bolt specs that said 200 inch pounds does this sound correct?


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## jhngardner367

Yes,that's what it says in the books. Take them to 100,then 160,then final of 200 .


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## txsteve

wjjones said:


> Well I have removed the engine, and I have a guy coming Saturday to pick up the frame for $50, and I sold the heads off the old motor for $50 so that helps with what I spent on the parts mower. I have torn down the replacement engine cleaned it up, and I am in the process of putting it back together. I plan to pull the sump first to clean it out before re-installing it on the mower after seeing the condition of the one on the bad engine I wouldnt be able to not remove it to be cleaned. I did find another site for the sump bolt specs that said 200 inch pounds does this sound correct?


What about the deck ? Is that sold too ?


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## wjjones

txsteve said:


> What about the deck ? Is that sold too ?




Yep the whole mower I didnt have anywhere to store it so I let it go with the tractor. Its on my trailer under the carport waiting for him to pick it up.


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## wjjones

jhngardner367 said:


> Yes,that's what it says in the books. Take them to 100,then 160,then final of 200 .




Thankyou Mr. John I plan to button it up this weekend, and get it back on the mower.


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## wjjones

txsteve said:


> What about the deck ? Is that sold too ?




Well the guy said it would be another week before he could come pick it up so I told him if someone else wanted it I was going to let it go.


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## dangeroustoys56

Well ya- specially if he didnt give you some sort of deposit. I make it a point if i call on a tractor ( specially a cheepie) i haul by butt as fast as i can go when i drop the phone - on average im there within a half hour. Wont let it get away!

Heck if you were closer id come and get that huskee from ya 

Im a 11hr drive from Tennessee tho....


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Well ya- specially if he didnt give you some sort of deposit. I make it a point if i call on a tractor ( specially a cheepie) i haul by butt as fast as i can go when i drop the phone - on average im there within a half hour. Wont let it get away!
> 
> Heck if you were closer id come and get that huskee from ya
> 
> Im a 11hr drive from Tennessee tho....




Yep as soon as I reposted it I got 4 more hits on it I told them the first one to show up tomorrow with the $$ gets the mower. It could get interesting if they all show up at the same time..


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## dangeroustoys56

Could be to your advantage - bidding war - most moolah takes it home.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Could be to your advantage - bidding war - most moolah takes it home.




Yep 1 showed up way earlier than the others so I told him to load it up, and take it home. He got a good deal for $50 I didnt need it anyway I just needed the engine for my other mower. Plus I am out of room for anymore power equipment I guess my next project is a bigger building..


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## wjjones

Heres the pulley it took me 6 hrs to get this sucker off, or should I say whats left of it.


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## wjjones

The slot is where the key used to be I had to chisel it of very carefully it wont happen again while I own it I know what grease is. I even pulled the one off my ys4500 I have had for 7 years, and added some grease to the engine shaft just to be sure it doesnt sieze on there.


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## jhngardner367

Been there,done that,Walter ! It can really be a PITA!
I really HATE trying to remove wheels from axles,too! No matter what,there's ALWAYS one that has to be cut off!


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## Argee

WOW!! 6 hours.......you have exceptional patience!


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## wjjones

Argee said:


> WOW!! 6 hours.......you have exceptional patience!




Yep, and determination I guess it was kinda like a battle of wills...:lmao: I had to drill out one motor bolt that broke off in the sump, and when I was re-threading it the tap broke off in there too. I finally got it back out, and now I will just have to use a bolt, and nut to hold that corner down. I would advise anyone to keep grease on those to because of the steel bolt to the aluminium sump. I did finally get to use my new Dewalt drill though so that was a plus.


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## wjjones

It lives again!! I finally got it all put back together, and fired it up yesterday it runs as good as my other tractor. Thankyou to all of you guys for the help, and input to get this thing going again. We have been on this thing since August 2012.


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## Argee

It's always great to get a project to completion. Of course pictures are always welcome.


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## wjjones

Argee said:


> It's always great to get a project to completion. Of course pictures are always welcome.




I sure will as soon as I get the deck, and everything back on it. And when I mentioned we have been on this since August I was meaning all of you guys bacause you all have been here every step of the way.


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## dangeroustoys56

Usually when i put things back together, its gooped up with never seize - specially like brake caliper bolts ( aluminum and steel together). Most my projects are a long time comming - ive had my agway apart since last year, and finally have it all back together.


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## wjjones

dangeroustoys56 said:


> Usually when i put things back together, its gooped up with never seize - specially like brake caliper bolts ( aluminum and steel together). Most my projects are a long time comming - ive had my agway apart since last year, and finally have it all back together.




Thats like me everything is a work in progress. If nothing ever broke though we would be bored.


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## dangeroustoys56

Im set for life with all my projects :dazed: Too many 'honey do' lists before tinkering time in the shed....

I mentioned before having more then one mower is great - backups for backups as i call em - when one wont start- i grab another till one does start.


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## wjjones

I finally got the mower put back together the left (YS 4500) is my original mower, and the right one (DYS 4500) is the one I got on CL with the busted cylinder.


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## Argee

Nice looking duo...what's the difference between a YS and a DYS other than the "D"??? lol


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## wjjones

Argee said:


> Nice looking duo...what's the difference between a YS and a DYS other than the "D"??? lol




I think it stands for deluxe but I dont see it they both are identical except for the cutting deck, and the rearend.


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## Argee

What is different on the rear end? Are both of these operable?


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## wjjones

They are 2 different type rearends 1 is the tuff torque, and the other is a 356-0510 it does not list a name for the 2nd transaxle. The 356-0510 will run circles around the tuff torque transaxle mower it does about 7.5 mph.


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## Argee

wjjones said:


> They are 2 different type rearends 1 is the tuff torque, and the other is a 356-0510 it does not list a name for the 2nd transaxle. The 356-0510 will run circles around the tuff torque transaxle mower it does about 7.5 mph.


I wonder if that's a early version Hydro Gear.......*This one* has a similar model #.


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## wjjones

Argee said:


> I wonder if that's a early version Hydro Gear.......*This one* has a similar model #.



Yep it is a year older than the one with the tuff torque rearend.


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