# Jerky Hydraulics, How to troubleshoot



## Etbrown44

Have jerky Hydraulics on front end loader. Slow operation and noisy like air in pump. 

Hyd reservoir is full, hyd filter is new. 

I've bled the pump. I see no obvious air leaks. 

What is the best way to troubleshoot?


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## rhino

The suction line coming from tractor to the hydraulic pump, is there a rubber hose? This hose connects two parts of the hydraulic line together. It helps give the line some movement. I would check it for cracks or loose clamps.


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## Etbrown44

I've tightened the clamps where the suction line attaches to the pump, but it made no difference. 

I've just found that the loud noise squealing noise is coming from the tranny reservoir and not the pump .You just hear it when the FEL lever is pulled. 

Is there any way to troubleshoot to locate an air leak or see if the pump is bad?


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## FredM

screen on the suction line from the tranny is most likely blocked if you are hearing suction noise there.

I had a pin hole in my rubber connecting hose from suction line to pump and this was so small I couldn't find it when I replaced the hose, this was giving jerky movements in the hydraulic system when the lever was used.


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## Etbrown44

I have a Massey 1030. My suction line appears to be soldered or welded into the side of the tranny. I see no inspection or access plates or screens. 

Any ideas on where a screen might be or how to access?


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## FredM

can you attach a photo of where the suction line goes into the tranny, most suction lines will have a tang welded to the suction pipe near where the pipe enters the tranny and this is held in place by a stud, the suction line will also have one or two "O" rings to seal the pipe and tranny opening.

most screens are on the end of the pipe and are about 3" long and protrude into the transmission housing.


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## Etbrown44

Fred is right. 
There is a small round plate holding the suction to the tranny. That plate has two bolts.

This is a big help! Does anyone know for Sure if on a Massy 1030 compact of my, '90 vintage, there's a screen on the end of the suction tube?


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## FredM

I have attached a photo of a filter screen from a 2610 massey, admittedly not your model but this will give you an idea of what to look for on the transmission case of your tractor, this should be close to the suction outlet.

You will also see how fine the gauze is on the filter and will be appreciative of how fine the particles that are stopped and why the screen will clog.









I have tried to find a free workshop /parts manual with no success, any amount for the money changing hands.

a photo of the suction side of the tranny would have been helpful, not to be it seems.


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## Etbrown44

I luckily found a massey parts breakdown on the agco site. 

Appears to show suction tube and no screen except the spin on filter itself. 
http://www.agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/Viewer/book.aspx?book=agco/651506

see under hydraulic pump an

This takes us back to troubleshooting. I've talked to guys who had water in the massey compact tranny and they said they had to change the oil 3 to 4 times to get it clear. Otherwise they say it will plug the filter in a few seconds.

One other thing I may try might be to remove the outlet fitting from the pump and see if i have anything like the 9gpm rated flow there into a bucket. A plugged filter would impair that, but I would like to see if pump is ok. The ultimate test would be to draw oil from a bucket and not through the filter assembly, but not sure i can make that work.


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## FredM

what makes you think you have water in the tranny ?, is the oil milky or a semi clear amber colour ?.

I can't open the web page you attached, I went through the motions of joining up here in North Queensland, I may have to try a different Ozzie state to get the login to the page.


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## Etbrown44

Well I saw originally a gallon of water exit the drain holr followed by 5 gal whiteish oil. On my second draining about a quart came out first. I drained into 4 shallow buckets and even the second time there was a fair amount of sludge in each bucket.

On the agco site, you can sign on as a guest and luckily it let me straight in. Should work worldwide. All it shows is the suction line with a plain open end. The outer 2 bolt flange ring, 2 bolts and an oring secure it. No apparent screen. 

Today i ran the engine and pump into a bucket and as expected the flow was poor. Instead of 9 gal a minute i got about a quart. Even that flow surged some, from poor to fair only. Easy to see why FEL barely moves. 

I removed the rubber hose connector at the pump, in hopes or attaching a temporary rubber suction line into an oil bucket, but that 3/4 " steel line was so rigid, there was no way to slightly bend it. (if i get desperate i could remove the line at the bottom of the filter housing, and try a suction line into oil bucket) 

So that takes me back to either the filter or an air leak (unless the pump or pump shaft seal turns out to be bad. 

I will solve this. Just don't know just when!


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## FredM

I cannot find the guest sign in you mention on the Agco site you have attached.

Could you open the Agco site again and have a look at the inside of the transmission housing in the parts section, there is most likely a well/reservoir cast into the housing that feeds screened oil to the suction line, I have seen this on older tractors, internal pump with the suction directed into the well/reservoir, the walls of this well/reservoir had many small holes drilled through to allow the oil to feed the pump suction line.

The fact you have mentioned that you can hear suction noise in the tranny housing suggests to me that there is a blockage there and causing the pump to suck air.

Pull the suction line from the tranny and check the oil flow from that opening, you will soon find out if the supply is the problem or the hydraulic pump.


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## Etbrown44

Parts schematic just shows the plain end of the suction tube entering the side of the tranny and no apparent special reservoir or screen. While some tractors have internal screens i don't think this one does. 

An easy way to observe flow is to remove the spin on filter. There you see flow aplenty. 

Looks like i need to keep changing the oil and filters until most sludge is gone. The best evidence is that upon changing the filter, i get normal FEL operation, and no noise for a minute or two! 

The pump is still a suspect too.


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## FredM

FredM said:


> Could you open the Agco site again and have a look at the "inside of the transmission housing" in the parts section, there is most likely a well/reservoir cast into the


I asked if you could look inside the transmission housing on the parts page, there will be a schematic of this.

Your transmission filters must be cheap to replace.


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## Etbrown44

Fred, 
If you can kindly post your email address, I will send you a screenshot of the Hydraulic parts. Inside the tranny it just shows gears.


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## RC Wells

The Hinomoto Toyosha tractor sold as the Massey 1030 has no additional hydraulic suction screen in the sump.

Make sure the hydraulic suction fitting to the transmission sump is not leaking air, then check all your suction lines and the filter for any air infiltration.

They do have an aluminum bodied hydraulic pump that is pretty much prone to immediate failure if the hydraulic oil becomes contaminated with water. Once the pump cavitates and develops excessive clearances they will jerk the loader as they develop air pockets from the pump failing to maintain a uniform suction.

If you are pumping goop blobs, you will continue to have problems until the sump and system is clear of contamination. I suspect you will also have ruined your pump by now.

If I remember they use about 7 and a half gallons of hydraulic oil, and it is usually more cost effective to disassemble the unit, including all the cylinders and valves and wash out the entire system than it is to attempt to correct the contamination by filling and swapping filters. 

Given it is a Hinomoto/Toyosha from the 80's or very early 90's, I would seriously consider scrapping it and saving a lot of frustration if you do not have a facility in which to tear it apart and clean it correctly.


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## Etbrown44

Wow, great post by RC. 

I was 99% sure I have no screen .
I have no goop coming through the pump, just clear fluid, as mentioned in the test run yesterday with the pressure line removed from the pump while it runs. 

Mine is a low hour tractor with a loader and backhoe, looks excellent, so running it has a good value. 

From a guy who has actually done this on a 1030, he says it's all about cleaning. 

How about this. It looks like the tranny top cover has 6 bolts. Though RC is not a fan of cleaning, does RC or others see any reason why i cant remove the top cover and keep rinsing until the sludge is just about gone? 

( I know the tranny oil feeds other geared components too, but cover off, I'll hope to have lots better access)


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## deerhide

Brand new those 1030's were a hydraulic pain in the ass when we put a loader on them.....


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## Etbrown44

Success!
Changed oil and filter the 3rd time, including removing the top tranny cover and washing through a few extra gallons there. 

Glad i didn't replace the pump which some thought might be bad. Really glad i didn't scrap it as its a solid 30 hp with a great FEL and good backhoe and a new lease on life
! 
Thanks for all who contributed, it was a battle but well worth it!

It's been a great tractor for 30 years, so now maybe I can get 30 more! Why not?


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## Johnny0457

Etbrown44 said:


> Success!
> Changed oil and filter the 3rd time, including removing the top tranny cover and washing through a few extra gallons there.
> 
> Glad i didn't replace the pump which some thought might be bad. Really glad i didn't scrap it as its a solid 30 hp with a great FEL and good backhoe and a new lease on life
> !
> Thanks for all who contributed, it was a battle but well worth it!
> 
> It's been a great tractor for 30 years, so now maybe I can get 30 more! Why not?


I developed the same jerky lift of the loader and it got worse quickly. After reviewing your posts and doing several other things...... it ended up being the same trash that had accumulated and clogged the filter and sump. I am in the process of flushing out the rest of the debris and feel certain my 4150 will return to the responsive Kubota I have grown to respect. Thank you for sharing your pain.


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## Chick-N-Picker

What do you mean by jerky? Could you go to my thread and watch the video of what my great aunts tractor is doing and tell me if that is what you mean?

We are supposed to be bleeding her lines this week sometime but I suspect it may need something more or has a clog at the pump or maybe in a hose somewhere.


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## kingkazim21

Solis 90 hydraulic is bouncy when raised all the way.


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