# can you use a pto slip clutch and pto overrun clutch



## bklesinger (6 mo ago)

My question can you use a pto slip clutch and pto overrun clutch at the same time?, my issue is I use the tractor at times to Field mow (brush hog) i have installed a pto overrunning clutch. But if i want to Rototill do i need to remove Overrunning clutch ? A REAL pain... in order to Till? it has slip clutch installed on it.


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## thedukes (Jan 9, 2022)

YES..No issue at all.
Be sure and check your driveline length.......Over run eats 4.5".
If you need to gain that space back you can add a quick hitch/I-Match if your tiller will mount to one.

They make Over run clutchs that pop on and off in seconds vs the old style with roll pin commonly found on Fords 2 ,9 &8N


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## DK35vince (Jan 22, 2006)

Yes, as long as the PTO shaft isn't to long with the overrun clutch installed and cause bidding damage.
I run an overrun clutch shaft on the tractor and my tiller, brush mower has a slip clutch.
Works fine, but my PTO shafts are cut to the correct lengths to make that work


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## bklesinger (6 mo ago)

My question can you use a pto slip clutch AND pto over running clutch at the same time?,, I do think i will switch to easy release over run clutch.


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## bklesinger (6 mo ago)

yes i know about shaft length and we can set that


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## bklesinger (6 mo ago)

bklesinger said:


> yes i know about shaft length and we can set that


i see that i can have both insalled.. thx


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## BinVa (Sep 21, 2020)

You are correct…Both can be installed at the same….. B.


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## thedukes (Jan 9, 2022)

bklesinger said:


> My question can you use a pto slip clutch AND pto over running clutch at the same time?,, I do think i will switch to easy release over run clutch.


Yes
Over run is active when pto is turned off and allows mower to keep spinning.
Original intent was for 9N.......pto is connected to rear end gears....A spoinning mower keeps the tractor rolling rusulting in smashed fences ,barns and some accidents worse I'm sure.

Slip clutch on Mower is only ever doing its job if you strike some large object or bog it down severely.
It also only works when its adjusted Right. Let it rust up and it becomes useless. I preferr Shear bolts.

Yes you can run both...neither one has any effect on the other. Its just not possible.


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## bklesinger (6 mo ago)

thedukes said:


> Yes
> Over run is active when pto is turned off and allows mower to keep spinning.
> Original intent was for 9N.......pto is connected to rear end gears....A spoinning mower keeps the tractor rolling rusulting in smashed fences ,barns and some accidents worse I'm sure.
> 
> ...


why is not possible, i have a pined Overrunning clutch on my MF135 but we need something on our Rototillers .. i agree i would prefer to have a Shear Bolt .. but all i find is like 350.00 a bit much for me


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

What type of pto do you have?
If you have live pto you don't need an ORC.


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## bklesinger (6 mo ago)

i am really not sure on a old MF 135 what it is


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## thedukes (Jan 9, 2022)

bklesinger said:


> why is not possible, i have a pined Overrunning clutch on my MF135 but we need something on our Rototillers .. i agree i would prefer to have a Shear Bolt .. but all i find is like 350.00 a bit much for me


Yes you can run both...neither one has any effect on the other. Its just not possible.

Its NOT POSSIBLE for EITHER one TO effect the OTHER. Use Both and No Problems if you wish

RUN BOTH
Whats this 350 part?
a slip clutch driveline??

You don't need a slip clutch....years ago only the best and biggest of implements even came with one.
Most are never maintained and "Slipped" yearly to ensure they will work when needed.
Hence They are useless driveline rotating weight.

Carry on without one......In the old days if you heard a strange noise or the tiller jumped cause it hit a rock....you Pushed in the Clutch Pedal.
On newer hydro machines and others ....you need to locate PTO Switch and shut it Off.


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## bklesinger (6 mo ago)

I can see that a slip clutch could be a issue if not able to move(stuck)


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## thedukes (Jan 9, 2022)

bklesinger said:


> I can see that a slip clutch could be a issue if not able to move(stuck)


 Absolutely Correct.

Must be Maintained/serviced yearly.
Unless the driveline includeing the slipclutch is removed from implement and stored inside.
Even then It should be "slipped" to ensure it will. Envolves loosening the bolts/ marking plates/slipping/resetting bolt tightness...which is a huge variable depending what this clutch is running
Tiller /mower /seeder...etc


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

A person can certainly use both a slip clutch on an implement and an over running clutch on a tractor at the same time.
Also you can get units that are combined over running and slip clutches.
Bare Co USA - Over Run (Freewheel) Safety Clutch 40 HP
Yes a slip clutch should be adjusted and service every year, it is a simple and fairly quick process..
I like an over running clutch on heavy pto loads as it saves the pto brake in the tractor.


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## bklesinger (6 mo ago)

I will check that out, Thx


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

bklesinger said:


> i am really not sure on a old MF 135 what it is


The MF 135 was built with a transmission driven PTO OR a live PTO Or an independent PTO
Transmission driven = single stage clutch, tractor and pto start at same time MF referred to these as the 135 special (cheapest tractor also had less gauges) Like the N series ford or to20 and 30 fergusons

Live PTO = Two stage clutch 1/2 down stops the tractor, rest of the way down stops the pto, 1/2 way up starts pto rest of way up drives the transmission (Most are made this way) If doesn't release right need to adjust thru the hole in bottom of housing after properly adjusting pedal freeplay

Independent = Split torque clutch foot clutch only controls the transmission. PTO lever controls the pto any time. Do not need foot clutch to start or stop. (Most expensive few equipped with due to price)


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## bklesinger (6 mo ago)

so a Live PTO = Two stage clutch would need a Overdrive clutch? i think


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

bklesinger said:


> so a Live PTO = Two stage clutch would need a Overdrive clutch? i think


No 
because the PTO cannot "backfeed" to the transmission. Once the pedal is pushed 1/2 way down no power is put to the transmission, but the PTO is still driven by the 2nd stage of the clutch
The clutch is the point that divides the transmission from the PTO.

With the single disc clutch the only way the pto was driven was by the same gears that drove the transmission so everything had to start and stop together, and the pto could "backfeed" the transmission because that is where the power came from.

If you need a manual for the tractor go at www.agcopubs.com Usually they are cheaper than after market sellers.


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## bklesinger (6 mo ago)

ok so on a Live PTO no overrunning clutch.. what about a Independent PTO?


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

An independent PTO is just as the word implies it is totally independent of the transmission, therefore cannot "backfeed" to the transmission.
The PTO is driven from the engine thru its own clutch
So what all this comes down to is the ONLY PTO that needs an over running clutch is the transmission driven PTO. The over running clutch is only used because without one the tractor with a flywheel type implement would not be able to be stopped until the implement stopped turning. It was also an issue in that when the tractor started moving the pto started, when the transmission was disengaged the pto also was disengaged so if you were pulling a baler, combine, or forage harvester it is now plugged, or you got good at putting the transmission in neutral and reengaging the clutch--Quickly!
Many early tractors also used the pto to power the hydraulic pump so if you used a transmission driven pto you had to shift to neutral reengage the clutch to have hydraulic, of course that meant the implement had to run too. It was also hard to use a loader because every time you got a bucket full you had to go thru the same routine,


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

This may help on PTO types



https://www.tractordata.com/articles/technical/pto.html


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

Busted Tractor said:


> No
> because the PTO cannot "backfeed" to the transmission. Once the pedal is pushed 1/2 way down no power is put to the transmission, but the PTO is still driven by the 2nd stage of the clutch
> The clutch is the point that divides the transmission from the PTO.
> 
> ...


There are many reasons to use a over running pto device. It does not matter what type or brand of PTO drive you have, live or independant. With the 2 stage clutch it had to be adjusted properly to release cleanly.
Most independent PTO's (the most common) have a brake to slow down and stop the PTO drive shaft when turned off. Any implement with a heavy rotating mass will apply a severe load on those brakes. The pad or lining material is a contributing factor to dirty hydraulic fluids and pump wear. Using an over running clutch will let the tractors internal pto pieces stop without excessive brake wear. Brush hogs and chippers and PTO generators are examples of implements that have a lot of momentive force. Farming has many others such as forage blowers and some heavier mowers and such.
An over running clutch may not be required but it can save you a good chunk of money in maintenance. I have seen bills as high as $7000 to replace a PTO brake when it requires splitting a tractor to access the pto drive.
If your implements have minimal rotating load it will not save much wear.
Many of the older and larger tractors with a mechanical lever and linkage to engage and disengage the PTO would not apply much brake unless you pushed on the lever to apply it, you could ease the PTO on it would not slam on and you could ease it off and not tear up things. Also many of those were even easy to rebuild and repair.


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## Ultradog (Feb 27, 2005)

bklesinger said:


> ok so on a Live PTO no overrunning clutch.. what about a Independent PTO?


Edit: I didn't see Lou's last post before writing a very similar one. He covered the topic well So I deleted mine.


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