# Gas and Diesel thread



## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Maybe we should do a thread with the current fuel prices in your area's but *lets keep it simple and NOT inject politics into it *because all that does it cause friction.

Keep it related to local prices per gallon or liter please..

I'll start it by

Local Diesel $5.40 on road at the local Loves truck stop
Gas (unleaded regular) same place $3.29
Off Road diesel at the Co-op $5.01 (no road tax)

That was Saturday, last time I checked,

Crazy prices and I'm sure it will adversely impact everything else. After all, like it or not, this country runs of petrochemicals. So does our fine neighbors to the north.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Diesel up to as much as 2.07 a liter..... 6.12 US a gallon
Regular hit 1.97 a liter yesterday..........5.83 US a gallon


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

I generally pay no attention. I'll look around when I go to town this afternoon.


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## BinVa (Sep 21, 2020)

N.W. Va

Regular gas...$4.19- $4.29
On road diesel...$4.99- $5.19
Costco regular gas $3.81


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

I'm on the other TF because this topic here is allowed politics to get involved as its the root to it all.  

Gas is over $7.70 in CA where friends are located. It's now on par with the cost of EV chagrining, but the range is limited with EVs and takes hours to fill-up via a wire. Those friends said it has to reach over $10 before people would consider full EVs.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

bmaverick said:


> I'm on the other TF because this topic here is allowed politics to get involved as its the root to it all.
> 
> Gas is over $7.70 in CA where friends are located. It's now on par with the cost of EV chagrining, but the range is limited with EVs and takes hours to fill-up via a wire. Those friends said it has to reach over $10 before people would consider full EVs.


I've tried to play out the scenario that gas prices are being driven up to justify EV. Although I fully accept that our current administration would do exactly that, I can't make it pass the justification test. $10 gas will destroy our economic system and cause changes that will cause EV vehicles to be completely unaffordable. Their production costs will sky rocket. Everyone's cost of everything will sky rocket. This Country will go into a Deep, Dark Recession that will take years to crawl out of. EV will be at the bottom of everyone's necessity list.....


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

ovrszd said:


> I've tried to play out the scenario that gas prices are being driven up to justify EV. Although I fully accept that our current administration would do exactly that, I can't make it pass the justification test. $10 gas will destroy our economic system and cause changes that will cause EV vehicles to be completely unaffordable. Their production costs will sky rocket. Everyone's cost of everything will sky rocket. This Country will go into a Deep, Dark Recession that will take years to crawl out of. EV will be at the bottom of everyone's necessity list.....


I can't think of going cross country in an EV. It will take weeks from one side to the other with high charging fees and hotel stop overs ever 400 miles IF you are lucky to get that! 

On the other tractor forum, the EV tractor thread shows how impractical a machine like that would help anyone overall.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Remember, I am as well, just like you and Richard are (and a few others on here) so I read all the somewhat interesting threads including the electric tractor one. Even commented on it a ways back. They are not practical from a duty cycle standpoint or a cost standpoint. JD's 225 grand 'utility tractor' only has a 6 hour duty cycle. I read that and thought to myself that only some fat cat would even consider one and now I Deere is offering an electric transmission in their large ag tractors. Not electric shift, but a fully electric tranny with a T4 final diesel powering a generator (or alternator) similar to a current diesel-electric locomotive. Sounds to me like another JD nightmare to fix.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

SidecarFlip said:


> Remember, I am as well, just like you and Richard are (and a few others on here) so I read all the somewhat interesting threads including the electric tractor one. Even commented on it a ways back. They are not practical from a duty cycle standpoint or a cost standpoint. JD's 225 grand 'utility tractor' only has a 6 hour duty cycle. I read that and thought to myself that only some fat cat would even consider one and now I Deere is offering an electric transmission in their large ag tractors. Not electric shift, but a fully electric tranny with a T4 final diesel powering a generator (or alternator) similar to a current diesel-electric locomotive. Sounds to me like another JD nightmare to fix.


Maybe one should buy up all the non-computerized pre-emissions Japan tractors still over there. Many have jumped up in price a good deal over the last year. 

I just can't see how EV tractor could compete. Plus, a person can't possibly run out and get parts all that quickly either. PROPRIETARY means it takes big $$$ to own and operate.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

bmaverick said:


> *I can't think of going cross country in an EV. It will take weeks from one side to the other with high charging fees and hotel stop overs ever 400 miles IF you are lucky to get that!*
> 
> On the other tractor forum, the EV tractor thread shows how impractical a machine like that would help anyone overall.


You don't want to. My cousin has one of the high buck Tesla AWD buggies (125 grand). He brought it up here last time he visited, he lives west of Chicago a ways. Took him a bit longer than the usual 3 1/2 hours it takes in a conventional vehicle, took him almost 5 hours to get here because his battery wouldn't make the entire trip, so he had to stop and charge it back up and had to wait at the charge station for an empty stall and extension cord and even then not a full charge so I had the 'plug him in', into my 220 shop power to 'fill it up' when he got here. he has one perk however. Because he bought the high end one and was one of the first buyers, he don't ever pay for charging at a Tesla Supercharging station, problem is, they aren't that many. He had to exit the turnpike in Indiana somewhere and go find one. Now the car 'tells' you where they are at, but still not in convenient locations, like on the Toll Road.

I will say I drove it and it is very impressive (with a charged battery). Noiseless and acceleration that is just short of fantastic. I floored it on the paved road that leads to town and hit 100 per in a flash. No wheelspin either, just go. Going into town there is a curve to the right. Jeff told me to take my hands off the wheel and I did and the car tracked around the curve, like magic. Very impressive. Fit and finish is impressive as well. Nice vehicle overall with one huge drawback. Not practical unless you live in an Urban setting. Out here, it's a useless as tits on a boar hog.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

bmaverick said:


> Maybe one should buy up all the non-computerized pre-emissions Japan tractors still over there. Many have jumped up in price a good deal over the last year.


I already have 2 and Richard has one (Kubota). Both my M9's are pre 4 fully mechanical injection and ZERO emissions hardware and yes they are steadily increasing in price as the selection gets less and less. I've been offered basically what I paid new for them if I sold them. Not gonna happen. With proper care (which they get), they will outlast me and my wife can sell them for a bundle.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

SidecarFlip said:


> You don't want to. My cousin has one of the high buck Tesla AWD buggies (125 grand). He brought it up here last time he visited, he lives west of Chicago a ways. Took him a bit longer than the usual 3 1/2 hours it takes in a conventional vehicle, took him almost 5 hours to get here because his battery wouldn't make the entire trip, so he had to stop and charge it back up and had to wait at the charge station for an empty stall and extension cord and even then not a full charge so I had the 'plug him in', into my 220 shop power to 'fill it up' when he got here. he has one perk however. Because he bought the high end one and was one of the first buyers, he don't ever pay for charging at a Tesla Supercharging station, problem is, they aren't that many. He had to exit the turnpike in Indiana somewhere and go find one. Now the car 'tells' you where they are at, but still not in convenient locations, like on the Toll Road.
> 
> I will say I drove it and it is very impressive (with a charged battery). Noiseless and acceleration that is just short of fantastic. I floored it on the paved road that leads to town and hit 100 per in a flash. No wheelspin either, just go. Going into town there is a curve to the right. Jeff told me to take my hands off the wheel and I did and the car tracked around the curve, like magic. Very impressive. Fit and finish is impressive as well. Nice vehicle overall with one huge drawback. Not practical unless you live in an Urban setting. Out here, it's a useless as tits on a boar hog.


I'd say the cab of that car may have picked up an interesting scent going into that corner.... Would have taken a while to remove the seat covers from my behind!


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

Being a gearhead I understand and am intrigued by the instant HP/Torque of Electric. I just don't think our battery technology is advanced enough yet.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

ovrszd said:


> Being a gearhead I understand and am intrigued by the instant HP/Torque of Electric. I just don't think our battery technology is advanced enough yet.


Not to mention the whole next level of dealing with the spent batteries! Like laptops! The batteries are all sort of the same size, fit in the same area and provide similar power, but if you need to replace one why is there hundreds out there and only one that will fit your laptop!?!. We need the auto manufactures to at least pick a common platform for the batteries. I think bmaverick mentioned that a few months back as well.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

pogobill said:


> Not to mention the whole next level of dealing with the spent batteries! Like laptops! The batteries are all sort of the same size, fit in the same area and provide similar power, but if you need to replace one why is there hundreds out there and only one that will fit your laptop!?!. We need the auto manufactures to at least pick a common platform for the batteries. I think bmaverick mentioned that a few months back as well.


And that would play into the ability to swap out your battery easily if needed. Although,,,, seems like I read somewhere they are very heavy. Probably not doable by hand at the refill station....


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

pogobill said:


> I'd say the cab of that car may have picked up an interesting scent going into that corner.... Would have taken a while to remove the seat covers from my behind!


Having a Ford Focus RS Turbocharged Hatchback with a 6 speed manual and 340 horses on the turbo and the weight of a case of beer, I know all about hard acceleration. Lets just say, on an average freeway on ramp if I mash it, it will pass 120 before I have to merge. It's a pocket rocketship. If I drive sanely which I do 99% of the time, I can get 40 mpg too. It's a sleeper. The Tesla executed the curve flawlessly actually and slowing down for the 35 mph speed limit in town it went into regenerative braking too.

I believe my Focus will do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. I like the Focus because my insurance company rates it as a sub compact and insurance is very reasonable. I love the manual. Comes in a twin clutch auto with paddle shifters too but I like to row the shifter.

Nice cars (Tesla) for an urban dweller. Out here, not so nice.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

I don't get my panties in a wad over what the short term market does. Never have. I invest for the long term and so far, I've done just fine and my portfolio is very diversified anyway. If you play the short term market, all you get is heartburn and high blood pressure. Life is too short for that.

Besides I initiated this discussion to track pump prices and not the market which always seems to go down the political rabbit hole so...

Please refrain from that type of post.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

I didn't go by the two fuel stations in town today but;
off road #2 delivered 1000 gallons at $5.05 per gallon!!!!!!!!!!!! ridiculous.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

LouNY said:


> I didn't go by the two fuel stations in town today but;
> off road #2 delivered 1000 gallons at $5.05 per gallon!!!!!!!!!!!! ridiculous.


And that station will remain high until that quantity is used up. hmmmm


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## BinVa (Sep 21, 2020)

I don’t know if I’m doing right or not..but will hold off ordering fuel delivery til mid-May. My fuel consumption is minimal this time of year. If need be I can price shop and fill my trailer mounted storage tank. Fingers crossed.. B.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

LouNY said:


> I didn't go by the two fuel stations in town today but;
> off road #2 delivered 1000 gallons at $5.05 per gallon!!!!!!!!!!!! ridiculous.


I got away a bit cheaper than you did because I filled my 500 gallon tank just prior to the price going skyward. Still had to rob the piggy bank for the funds. My issue is, mid season, I'll need more.

I imagine you, like me, will try and conserve as much as possible. I sure like the climate control but I won't be idling them this summer to keep the cabs cool and when roading, I'll be dropping the rpm down into the max torque range instead of bumping the governor. Will take a bit longer but if I do that, the motor is running more efficiently. Besides, I can 'rubberneck' more...lol One of the great advantages of tractoring on pavement is being nosey and seeing stuff you never see in a motor vehicle.

I have a very bad feeling that the price is going up a lot more.Not about to take my wife's Suburban anywhere. It will take over 130 bucks to fill it and I read somewhere that people with new trucks and SUV's on order are cancelling them. probably a wise move on their part. I also suspect automotive will take a huge hit because the automakers basically quit building small cars in favor of the big pickups and SUV's and that market just went south. There reasoning for that was, because of what the public wants and the underlying reason was more profit per unit and now (as usual) they are caught with their pants down and of course auto makers like Honda, Nissan, Subaru and the others that produce smaller more fuel efficient car and small trucks will make a killing.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

BinVa said:


> I don’t know if I’m doing right or not..but will hold off ordering fuel delivery til mid-May. My fuel consumption is minimal this time of year. If need be I can price shop and fill my trailer mounted storage tank. Fingers crossed.. B.


I don't know. Hope you are right. if you aren't, you will have to get a second job to pay your fuel bill. I do know I need to sit down and sharpen my pencil concerning my hay sales this year. I've already informed my buyer there would be an increase in the per bale price but with what is transpiring, I have to pencil it out to ascertain just how much without giving him a heart attack. he's a good customer and pays promptly and has for the last 5 years and I don't want to lose him over pricing but I also need to not run in the red either.

I don't expect to get rich, if I want to get rich, I'd do something else other than running hay..


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Futures and retail end user prices never correlate together. I own 4 500's and they are all at 85% except one.


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## BinVa (Sep 21, 2020)

When I buy my trucks and SUV's I'm prepared to step and pay... it kills me to hear people say..'if only I'd known...I never would have bought it.' Many people haven't lived through the gas shortages where regardless the price...you couldn't get it. It's not cheap..but it is available!! B.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Same here. Do I like it? Of course not but if I need it, I'll purchase it anyway. All it does for me and Amy is limit how much non necessary driving we do and reality we don't do much, if any. Don't care if it's 10 bucks a gallon actually, well, I do care but I cannot control it. All I can do is consume it wisely.

Far ad ORD for the farm, I'll pas the cost on to my customer(s). How it works. 'Trickle down'.

Will be interesting how it impacts the automakers who decided to step away from fuel efficient vehicles and produce only large SUV's and pickup trucks. Bad mobe far as I was concerned but it was all in the name of profit. I can see their profits tanking this year.

Oh well. I don't hold ANY stock in any automakers anyway.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

bmaverick said:


> And that station will remain high until that quantity is used up. hmmmm


That's not a station, it's for the farm fuel tanks and they were almost out.
I heard of a delivery of heating oil yesterday that was $6.05, that is more then taxed on road fuel was at the stations.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

On my area is was 5.48 to 5.45 depending on the gas station. I have a degree in electronics, the EV is a pipe dream. To complex to costly to maintain to costly to get rid off and recycle. These guys talk it has advantage here and here but total cycle from raw material to start to raw material out it’s way more pricey. They just want to sell ice to Eskimo. I will skip and wait for the hydrogen ICE cars etc. nobody want to know what kind of damage happen to a high voltage motor if it get water inside.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

aliaj00 said:


> On my area is was 5.48 to 5.45 depending on the gas station. I have a degree in electronics, the EV is a pipe dream. To complex to costly to maintain to costly to get rid off and recycle. These guys talk it has advantage here and here but total cycle from raw material to start to raw material out it’s way more pricey. They just want to sell ice to Eskimo. I will skip and wait for the hydrogen ICE cars etc. nobody want to know what kind of damage happen to a high voltage motor if it get water inside.


Very good post. I totally agree.

I consider the carbon footprint of the current EV design vehicles to be very, very high.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

ovrszd said:


> Very good post. I totally agree.
> 
> I consider the carbon footprint of the current EV design vehicles to be very, very high.


And too make it worse nobody will have the tools to repair it by themselves so basically the total cost over the life of the vehicle is on the mercy of the dealer, whatever they charge is absolute. Total Cost/mile for life of the vehicle too pricy for my pocket.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

LouNY said:


> That's not a station, it's for the farm fuel tanks and they were almost out.
> I heard of a delivery of heating oil yesterday that was $6.05, that is more then taxed on road fuel was at the stations.


Lou... Isn't home heating oil just ULSD anyway? Is it red dyed or clear? You'll always pay a delivery charge no matter what. Oil companies do have to cover their fuel expenses as well.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

aliaj00 said:


> And too make it worse nobody will have the tools to repair it by themselves so basically the total cost over the life of the vehicle is on the mercy of the dealer, whatever they charge is absolute. Total Cost/mile for life of the vehicle too pricy for my pocket.


City will find the real price of high fuel cost and EV on they table pretty soon


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Lou... Isn't home heating oil just ULSD anyway? Is it red dyed or clear? You'll always pay a delivery charge no matter what. Oil companies do have to cover their fuel expenses as well.


Is it possible to use heating oil for tractors?


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Of course they will and then they will whine for more revenue. Problem is, they get it from lame politicians but never reduce the taxable burden on the citizens when their costs decrease. Wicked circle and you are at the bottom of the chain.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

SidecarFlip said:


> Lou... Isn't home heating oil just ULSD anyway? Is it red dyed or clear? You'll always pay a delivery charge no matter what. Oil companies do have to cover their fuel expenses as well.


Yes, it's the same fuel but I have always been able to purchase it for less delivered then service stations selling taxed motor vehicle fuel.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

aliaj00 said:


> Is it possible to use heating oil for tractors?


Why not, heating oil is diesel. I wouldn't because HHO is taxable. ORD (at least in this state) is not. Why pay more to get less. Makes no logical sense to me.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

aliaj00 said:


> Is it possible to use heating oil for tractors?


Yes, at my house when I fill the house tanks I also fill the tractor tanks at the same time.
It is the same fuel with a dye added.
Edited here, the dye is to show for off road or heating oil use NOT for highway use.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

LouNY said:


> Yes, it's the same fuel but I have always been able to purchase it for less delivered then service stations selling taxed motor vehicle fuel.


I believe (but don't hold me to it) that HHO in this state is taxed at a lesser rate than ORD. Not sure as I don't use it anyway. I heat primarily with bio mass and propane as a backup.

Nice thing here about using bio mass (pelleted wood products) is there is NO tax on them, sales or otherwise.. I pay more than enough in taxes as it is and I wouldn't mind paying them if politicians (local, state and Federal) actually used tax revenue in a positive manner. None do.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> I believe (but don't hold me to it) that HHO in this state is taxed at a lesser rate than ORD. Not sure as I don't use it anyway. I heat primarily with bio mass and propane as a backup.
> 
> Nice thing here about using bio mass (pelleted wood products) is there is NO tax on them, sales or otherwise.. I pay more than enough in taxes as it is and I wouldn't mind paying them if politicians (local, state and Federal) actually used tax revenue in a positive manner. None do.


Shit I am newbie. I got road diesel in anticipation of price hikes for generator and possible new tractor


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

~2$ a pepper at Walmart before the great hike, I can only imagine with this hike what it will be.😩


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

If Ukraine cuts the pipeline going through it, to Defacto force Germany to cut oil and kick Russian in the ballz to win the war. The 5.45$ will be the dream.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

aliaj00 said:


> ~2$ a pepper at Walmart before the great hike, I can only imagine with this hike what it will be.😩


I don't ever buy peppers, I grow my oen and cut and freeze them for winter. Walmart... Sure those peppers aren't 'imported'?


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> I don't ever buy peppers, I grow my oen and cut and freeze them for winter. Walmart... Sure those peppers aren't 'imported'?


Lol, I will grow them too this year. Just saying it’s possibly to get worse for gas/diesel there are some escalations that have not taken place yet globally.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Trust me, it will. How much worse, I have no idea as I don't possess a crystal ball but then neither does our fearless leader. I've always grown all our vegetables, made our own apple cider and cooked our own hooch too. I do corn crib hooch.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Trust me, it will. How much worse, I have no idea as I don't possess a crystal ball but then neither does our fearless leader. I've always grown all our vegetables, made our own apple cider and cooked our own hooch too. I do corn crib hooch.


Let’s hope not, I would never have imagined to be forced to start thinking about being partially food self sufficient. But reality has a way to make you rethink your path. I hope to see better days but so far ………


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

aliaj00 said:


> If Ukraine cuts the pipeline going through it, to Defacto force Germany to cut oil and kick Russian in the ballz to win the war. The 5.45$ will be the dream.


That's not going to happen.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

ovrszd said:


> That's not going to happen.


🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

aliaj00 said:


> 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏


it all depend on a Mad man and lousy politicians


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

aliaj00 said:


> it all depend on a Mad man and lousy politicians


Ukraine is not going to alienate Germany or any other NATO nation intentionally. Although they have already alienated several over the years which would explain why NATO won't accept them as a member.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Nord Stream II is on hold. Pipe line is complete, I believe, but no licence issued to start it up.
Jennifer M. Granholm is trying to get oil companies to drill on the leases that they hold, but seems they are not interested in helping out. Biden has talked to the UAE to boost production, which they have agreed to... hence the drop in oil prices. Takes a long time for the price of fuel to go down with the price of oil, but it sure goes through the roof very quickly, when there is a worry that oil prices "may" go up.

I'm worried that Putin is going to continue until he regains all of the Warsaw Pact Countries Russia lost when the "wall" came down. He's probably eyeing the a few other Non-NATO Countries like Finland etc. to pull into the mix!

This is not going to end well. I'm thinking The Ukraine is going to have to cut it's losses and save it's people. It's a sad situation in my Opinion.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

pogobill said:


> Nord Stream II is on hold. Pipe line is complete, I believe, but no licence issued to start it up.
> Jennifer M. Granholm is trying to get oil companies to drill on the leases that they hold, but seems they are not interested in helping out. Biden has talked to the UAE to boost production, which they have agreed to... hence the drop in oil prices. Takes a long time for the price of fuel to go down with the price of oil, but it sure goes through the roof very quickly, when there is a worry that oil prices "may" go up.
> 
> I'm worried that Putin is going to continue until he regains all of the Warsaw Pact Countries Russia lost when the "wall" came down. He's probably eyeing the a few other Non-NATO Countries like Finland etc. to pull into the mix!
> ...


Our gas prices aren't because of Russia/Ukraine.

The UAE isn't going to boost production to the point of having any measurable affect on our pump price.

I believe Putin's long term goal is to retake all of the non-NATO countries the USSR once had.

Ukraine is a corrupt government that has played everyone they can and now are trying to play NATO. Russia is being as "nice" as they can with this invasion. We did not treat Iraq nearly so well.

War is always a sad situation. And it's very personal. Changed by what direction the bullet is traveling.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

What Ukraine has for a government now is a more democratic government then the previous one.
Russia is an aggressive nation especially with Putin at the reins and with weak kneed and indecisive governments opposing him he will run amoke.
It is a combination of futures traders trading on fear that is running fuel prices so high and a so called green government shoving more crap down our throats.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

I really don't want to go down the political rabbit hole but Lou, you pegged it and the sad part of it is, Biden lacks the fortitude to not give in to the 'green segment of his party'.

What is happening right now is all on Biden even as he tries to shift the blame to someone or anyone else convenient. It's his watch and it's 100% his own doing. He laid the groundwork for it starting on his first day in office and hasn't let up since. I don't know who is advising him but their advice will cost his party dearly and I suspect he will go down in history as the worse President we have ever had.

I suspect this 'crisis' will be the undoing of the Democrat party in DC come the mid terms. What is transpiring right now will impact middle class America in ways we can only imagine but I do know that people with marginal incomes or on fixed (retirement) incomes are facing some very hard times. All because Biden is an ineffective leader.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm not sure, but how does Biden control the price of oil? It is a global entity that is too large for any one country to decide.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

I remember 28 cents for Sunoco 260 Premium. Fond memories.

Nice las and nice car too. Had one of those with a 350 small block in it. Quite a sleeper.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

pogobill said:


> I'm not sure, but how does Biden control the price of oil? It is a global entity that is too large for any one country to decide.


Pretty simple Bill... Biden quashed the Keystone pipeline from your country that was supposed to go to Baytown, Texas and he cancelled the oil leases in ANWAR and all the offshore leases in open waters around the US. His spokesperson (Peppermint Patty) says there are over 900 leases available but what she don't say is the leases are not presently obtainable. When you go from a net exporter of energy (we were prior to Biden) to a net importer in less than 90 days, something is very seriously wrong. The wrong is Biden and his failed policies.

Now, we all get to share the pain of his stupidity. Diesel jumped another 10 cents here today. it's just a tad over 5 per for on road.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Back in the day, I was going with a gal that had one of these.









Had the slant 6. I remember thinking the fuel gauge was broken as the needle never seemed to move! Almost felt bad for the oil companies.
Don't feel too bad now a days. I'd think that the right thing for the oil a gas folks would be to not take advantage of the Russian -Ukraine crisis by jacking up the prices and in turn lining the pockets of the executives and paying out huge dividends. In times like these, oil and gas execs are dancing in the isles! 

To get back on subject, I do believe regular gas crossed the $2.00 mark here yesterday.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

LouNY said:


> What Ukraine has for a government now is a more democratic government then the previous one.
> Russia is an aggressive nation especially with Putin at the reins and with weak kneed and indecisive governments opposing him he will run amoke.
> It is a combination of futures traders trading on fear that is running fuel prices so high and a so called green government shoving more crap down our throats.


I agree with all this Lou.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

pogobill said:


> Back in the day, I was going with a gal that had one of these.
> View attachment 77994
> 
> 
> ...


The old Dodge 'dustpan'. I remember those. Had a couch front seat too (which I presume you took full advantage of....lol Slant 6 was a good motor. Not a stoplight screamer but lasted longer than the body did.

Have not look at prices as of late but 'm sure they are still outta sight compared with a year ago. Have all the motor fuel I need presently.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Heating oil and off road diesel are the same thing. No difference except the name. ORD should be less as there is no tax on it. heating oil still has sales tax on it least here in Michigan.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

Filled my wifes car up today regular was $4.39 / gallon.
Diesel was $4.69.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

Guys what do you think will happen to fuel prices when china waits for the lowest point in the conflict where europe and us is most vulnerable and attacks Taiwan.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

aliaj00 said:


> Guys what do you think will happen to fuel prices when china waits for the lowest point in the conflict where europe and us is most vulnerable and attacks Taiwan.


Meaning the point we are the most vulnerable


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

aliaj00 said:


> Meaning the point we are the most vulnerable


What would our defense of such action be?

Our "go to" card is sanctions. We don't have the backbone as a nation to sanction China imports. Just as we proved to Putin that we aren't going to do anything substantial, now China knows the same thing concerning them.

Whether China takes Taiwan or not has nothing to do with what the rest of the World thinks. If or when the mood strikes them, it will be done. Taiwan has absolutely no defense.

Would you be in favor of sending our Blood to defend Taiwan? I certainly would not.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

I am not saying that, don’t get me wrong. Just we are stacked so bad. 90% of chips technology and manufacturing is amassed there. We already outsource all other manufacturing. If we lose this one too to china 🇨🇳 what will we have left. Do you think chip shortages is only from bad weather on Taiwan for 2 years? Maybe they are not showing where the chips are going maybe military?


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

aliaj00 said:


> I am not saying that, don’t get me wrong. Just we are stacked so bad. 90% of chips technology and manufacturing is amassed there. We already outsource all other manufacturing. If we lose this one too to china 🇨🇳 what will we have left. Do you think chip shortages is only from bad weather on Taiwan for 2 years? Maybe they are not showing where the chips are going maybe military?


But in the end it comes down to this one single thing. Are you willing to Bleed for Taiwan?


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

ovrszd said:


> But in the end it comes down to this one single thing. Are you willing to Bleed for Taiwan?


 I really don’t know, tough call. Looks like we are cornered. No matter how we play we lose.


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## Sprocketrocket55 (Jan 3, 2021)

3.49 to 3.89 In Omaha,NE FOR 10% gasohol

Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

I can't do squat about it besides buy a more efficient vehicle. The price of gas would have to go up drasitcally before it makes economic sense to scrap my V10 excursion and take out a loan for a new vehicle. Well north of $10/gal. by the time fuel gets that expensive, an efficient vehicle that does what I need would be even more expensive than to our catastrophic inflation associated with a high fuel cost. so I would probably still be commuting with my V-10 monstrosity at $15/gallon. I might get a mototorcycle or something to commute on good weather days, and keep the V10 for crap weather days and when there is ice on the ground. I am planning a move that will get me closer to my place of employment. There I might get a side by side or a golf cart to commute with.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

aliaj00 said:


> I really don’t know, tough call. Looks like we are cornered. No matter how we play we lose.


I'm a military career guy. It's not a tough call for me at all. We are not cornered individually. All of us have the individual freedom to engage or not. If I am not willing to personally engage I should not ask any other American Soldier to do so.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

ovrszd said:


> But in the end it comes down to this one single thing. Are you willing to Bleed for Taiwan?


I know one thing, I'm not at all willing to bleed for Ukraine. Taiwan, not sure about. All I know is if it winds up on American soil (barring thermonuclear), I will have no issue dropping them. In my warped sense of right and wrong, I cannot rationalize any difference between taking a game animal (which I do regularly) and take a human. Only difference I can see is the human we be most likely shooting at me. Of course there are 2 of us here and we both shot though my wife is a much better shot than I am with open sights. I'm an optics person and I'm a firm believer in longer range kills anyway. I own one of those .338 Lapua bolt rifles that is capable of a lethal shot at 1500 yards.

I prefer not to talk about gloom and doom and instead concentrate on what is not something that might happen. However we are prepared for whatever comes down the pike.

I usually refrain for making political statement but I sure wish that Trump had won the election. If Trump was in the oval office, 90% of what is transpiring would never happen.

I've always felt that the reason it did was because the leaders of these left leaning countries were all afraid of Trump because they never knew what might piss him off. With the current sitting President. No one is concerned what he will do because they already know he won't do squat. He's weak and predictable. I'll leave it at that.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

Daryl, always be the craziest one in the Bar fight.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Hard for me to do Richard as I don't consume alcohol and don't go to bars unless it's a restaurant that has a bar in it. I've considered buying a bar before. I don't drink so drinking up the profit would never be an issue....


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Was watching you tube last night in particular the Russian heavy haul guy who immigrated to Canada (lives near Toronto) and hauls oversized and heavy equipment all over the states and Canada and he was talking about fuel prices (diesel and gasoline) in the states versus Canada and he broke down and converted from Liters to gallons and compared US prices (current) to Canadian prices and interestingly (to me at least) it appears that Canadian fuel prices are consistently higher than stateside and by quite a bit too. he did the regular unleaded comparison and in Canada, regular unleaded averages about a dollar more per unit (gallon) than here and same applies to diesel prices. I found that interesting. His comment was that most of the motor fuel used in Canada (I presume around the Toronto area) comes from the states anyway.

He broke it down and converted gallons to liters and liters to gallons.

So tell me Bill, is that true or false?

His latest video was him travelling from North Bay, down through Hearst and Cochrane. I've snowmachined in both places in the past. He stopped and fueled at the same truck stop in Cochrane that I fueled my pickup truck at so I recognized a lot of the places he had in the video. I've even got burgers at the A&W in Cochrane at the truckstop he fueled at. He likes A&W too... Been a while and I'd forgotten about how much snow they get up there. Brought back memories for me, including the KPH speed limits. Glad my truck reads in MPH and KPH. I haven't been to Canada since they imposed the pasport thing though I do have an 'enhanced' Michigan license which takes the place of a passport because a lot of Michiganders regularly cross the border. That and the Covid inoculation card which I also have on my phone and hard copy too.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

aliaj00 said:


> China said who is going to ship weapons to Taiwan will have grave consequences. Ehh ………


Please keep politics out of this thread. It's about fuel prices here, not politics.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

4.29$ near Costco nj today 4.35$ northeast pa


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

These were from 03-11-2022;
$4.399 for regular


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

SidecarFlip said:


> Was watching you tube last night in particular the Russian heavy haul guy who immigrated to Canada (lives near Toronto) and hauls oversized and heavy equipment all over the states and Canada and he was talking about fuel prices (diesel and gasoline) in the states versus Canada and he broke down and converted from Liters to gallons and compared US prices (current) to Canadian prices and interestingly (to me at least) it appears that Canadian fuel prices are consistently higher than stateside and by quite a bit too. he did the regular unleaded comparison and in Canada, regular unleaded averages about a dollar more per unit (gallon) than here and same applies to diesel prices. I found that interesting. His comment was that most of the motor fuel used in Canada (I presume around the Toronto area) comes from the states anyway.
> 
> He broke it down and converted gallons to liters and liters to gallons.
> 
> ...


Well, just a quick blurt out on the price of gas..... I just read that in Michigan, 60 cents a gallon is taxes. Here we pay pretty much that per liter, 54.5 cents I've been watching the crowd out in B.C. crossing over into Point Roberts noting that some save upwards of $40.00 a fill up. Just heard it on the news.... Could be that Russian Heavy Hauler they were talking to!?! LOL.
I found a great little calculator that Converts US gallons and Dollars to Canadian dollars and Liters. And it uses the current exchange rate $0.78 as of this posting, so it's pretty much up to date. Right now, gas is way down to $1.69 CND a liter, so we are paying the equivalent of $5.02 US / gallon.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

For regular!


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

I take it your 'regular' is the same 10% e-gas they peddle here as well...correct? He did a very involved breakdown of it. I found it interesting and enlightening too.

I have to inject this... The republican dominated house and senate here in Michigan is drafting a bill presently, to roll off the Federal Excise tax on motor fuel which I believe (don't hold me to it, is 15 cents a gallon) and the Michigan fuel tax so that would reduce the per gallon price of 60 cents? I don't know if Whitmer would sign it but if not they could do another over ride like they did with the mask BS and make the bill veto proof. Their proposal is to pay the Federal excise tax from the state coffers which, presently are overflowing with money.

Personally, I'd prefer to see them take that coffer money and fix the roads and improve the bridges but I don't have any say, just one vote.

I was surprised to see that you up north have been paying out the wazoo for fuel, right along. I did not know that until the Russian guy pencilled it out.

The liter to gallon and gallon to liter thing still puzzles me but then I was never a numbers person.

I do remember the first time I fueled my truck in Cochrane and was totally mystified by what the pump was showing. I found it totally foreign to my mind but then having been raised the English system instead of the Metric system I think you'd find that to be understandable. When I went north, first thing I'd do is stop at a bank in Canada and convert a couple hundred bucks in FRN's to your currency because no one in any retail establishment up your way would convert it, just dollar for dollar which was a loosing deal for me. Your banks always exchanged at the correct rate.... My issue coming back to the states was, my local bank would convert to USD but not take the coins so I have this jar somewhere about filled with canadian coins.  Still don't understand your tax system other than you seem to pay a huge amount in sales taxes.

Least with the farm diesel (ORD), I can write all of it off as a farm expense. I sure don't like spending that much (presently $4.50 per gallon for ORD) but it is what it is. You gotta pay to play or at least my customers get to pay down the road. Me, I get to pay up front.

The Russian guy on YT said he gets some of it back every month, I don't understand that either. We get nothing back here at all. All of it goes bye-bye and for what, I have no idea. Certainly not the roads.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

I think I will not be the right place but I got north of 600$ for propane at 3.535$ a gallon today


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

I need to switch to diesel but too broke. at least I can buy it where prices are at the lowest.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Fuel is fuel, don't matter what the type is. Keep in mind that propane is almost entirely made from crude oil by selective cracking so the crude price goes up, so does propane. Just tickled I pre bought 500 gallons last fall. Saved my bacon and wallet this winter but who knows about next winter. Total crapshoot.

This country (and the world) runs on oil despite what the greenies would like you to think and baseload power generation can never be produced with green alternatives. Closet they can come would be nuclear or Hydro electric.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Fuel is fuel, don't matter what the type is. Keep in mind that propane is almost entirely made from crude oil by selective cracking so the crude price goes up, so does propane. Just tickled I pre bought 500 gallons last fall. Saved my bacon and wallet this winter but who knows about next winter. Total crapshoot.
> 
> This country (and the world) runs on oil despite what the greenies would like you to think and baseload power generation can never be produced with green alternatives. Closet they can come would be nuclear or Hydro electric.


Ehh tell it to them 😩


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

aliaj00 said:


> Ehh tell it to them 😩


Just still mad from the bill lol


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Just checked Michigan residential propane price. It's at $2.77 today, up 10 cents from last friday.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

Here is was Official number of ~3.235$ a gallon of propane but I payed more.


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## ovrszd (11 mo ago)

SidecarFlip said:


> Just checked Michigan residential propane price. It's at $2.77 today, up 10 cents from last friday.


I paid $1.75 last Fall.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

I was somewhere around that as well. However 2 of my 500 gallon gross bottles are for grain drying and I pay no tax on that propane. I do know one thing and that is, I'd never want to get caught using dryer gas tor home heating. Michigan really frowns on doing that. I did pre buy an additional 400 gallons over and above the fill I did last summer. Glad I did. I see propane heading the way motor fuel is going actually. I'll probably be buying locking fuel caps for everything soon. I have one on my bulk tank bit I need to get a lock for it. I need ti get one for Amy's Suburban as well. I don't believe you can siphon gas out of my focus, it has one of those funky filler necks.

I pre bought 4 tons of pellets for the biomass stove and I have an additional 3 ton of off grade seed corn at my buddy's seed farm down the road to fetch as well. Not gonna be cold next winter if I can help it. Not real fond of burning seed corn because it produces a lot of ash but free is free, especially when the current price is 350 bucks for a 52 pound sack. I tease people and tell them I have the most expensive bio mass stove in the state.

Kind of wondering how his seed corn business will fare this year with the cost of amendments. Nitrogen doubled in price and herbicides and pesticides all went way up as well. Don't know what lime is at, I need to check.


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## aliaj00 (Feb 16, 2021)

I have two 330 gallons I got a few months back. Did not fill them at that time pre Ukraine times. Though prices would go down with Covid winding down and production coming up. What a fool I was. I paid 680 now for propane, would have filled the 330 gallon with diesel at the prices back then and finish winter with it. Now will wait. Minimum expenses now on. 😅 I do not know what will happen next, I was a fool once.

Edit: I got a portable diesel heater at TS for 230$ i believe.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

SidecarFlip said:


> Fuel is fuel, don't matter what the type is. Keep in mind that propane is almost entirely made from crude oil by selective cracking so the crude price goes up, so does propane. Just tickled I pre bought 500 gallons last fall. Saved my bacon and wallet this winter but who knows about next winter. Total crapshoot.
> 
> This country (and the world) runs on oil despite what the greenies would like you to think and baseload power generation can never be produced with green alternatives. Closet they can come would be nuclear or Hydro electric.


It's been a while since I was involved in gasous fuels but in the 80's almost all the natural gas and propane came from gas fields and wells,
it came out of the wells to a gas compression and cleanup plant. There the "well head" natural gas was analyzed and many components were removed,
many of the butanes, and pentanes(propane) once the natural gas was reduced to the proper btu level it was pressurized and sent out the distribution pipelines.
At that time very little natural gas production came from the refineries, yes they always had a small amount from the super light fractions of the crude
but most was well produced natural gas.

I will certainly agree "This country (and the world) runs on oil" of course I also believe we should be building and using Nuclear Power generation.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

I agree with the world running on oil and gas. With the technology that we have right now, we are going to be dependant on it for quite some time. There aren't any viable "One size fits all" alternatives.
But oil is a finite commodity and not a renewable resource. In my opinion, while we are still using oil and gas, and making gains in efficient use of it, we need to take this opportunity to explore alternatives before we are sucking air out of the wells! 
At one time, the world burnt moss and peat and branches and trees for heat. Killed whales to light the streets at night.... then someone plunked an impellor in the river and suck the electricity out of it! It provides heat and light and mobility. It's called progress. I don't know what will be a good alternative to oil and gas, or how long it will take to find one, but some folks are trying to figure it out. No time like the present.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Neither you nor I will be here to worry about it. My issue with the alternative green energy people is, they want to impose it immediately. I'm 100% against that. Like I said, not something of immediate concern anyway. All of us on here presently, will be long dead and gone before that occurs.


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## BinVa (Sep 21, 2020)

Checked on off-road diesel fuel today from my usual supplier… $4.83 delivered… +$35. delivery surcharge. Sure hope it comes down by June. B.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

We are a bit under that that at $4.50


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