# JD F525 engine replacement?



## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

I have a JD F525 front mower. The engine is toast. i bought it, gambling it was repairable and after a week of cleaning, I opened it up to find wiped gears and cam shaft bearing worn all the way through. looks like a bomb went off in there. Its a 17 hp engine and JD model is PA540A (kawasaki) I think its 1998. 

Thanks,
Walt
scroll down near the end to see the two halves of engine/transmission
Mower John Deere F525


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Howdy Walt, welcome to the tractor forum.

According to tractordata.com, your engine is a Kawasaki FC540V. Cannot find a new engine on the internet, but there is a used one on ebay. A used engine is a bit of as risk. I would guess an 18HP Kawasaki should fit it. Shaft size and length are the critical items.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

walterramjet said:


> I have a JD F525 front mower. The engine is toast. i bought it, gambling it was repairable and after a week of cleaning, I opened it up to find wiped gears and cam shaft bearing worn all the way through. looks like a bomb went off in there. Its a 17 hp engine and JD model is PA540A (kawasaki) I think its 1998.
> 
> Thanks,
> Walt
> ...


If you can't find a matching replacement or brand engine, try the repower method with a Harbor Freight Predator engine. It's been done countless of times. 

Some of those F model lawncare models have Yanmar diesels in them.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

If you can do as Maverick suggests, that's the way to go.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

So, I went on YT looking for a video of any repowered F525. These two were at the top of the listing.










The second video was a swap to a B+S engine kit from here.
Smallenginewarehouse.com

_In this video I swap a burnt up Kawasaki 22hp with a 27hp Briggs and Stratton kit from Smallenginewarehouse.com. The kit included everything needed to do the swap and it was actually a pretty easy job. _


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

BigT said:


> Howdy Walt, welcome to the tractor forum.
> 
> According to tractordata.com, your engine is a Kawasaki FC540V. Cannot find a new engine on the internet, but there is a used one on ebay. A used engine is a bit of as risk. I would guess an 18HP Kawasaki should fit it. Shaft size and length are the critical items.


Yes sir! I saw that $699 engine on ebay, but currently thinking I might just buy ebay parts needed for the engine.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

I am curious to know how another motor can be fitted to the Kawasaki crankcase, seeing that this is cast into the drive assembly.

I am thinking that the damage is in the cylinder side of the engine, surely a Kawasaki short motor should be available in the States??.

Short of that, a complete strip down and the engine casing taken to a machine shop for buildup and then machining back to original.


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

yes, thats the trick. So, you take a perfectly good kawasaki engine and remove the case cover and throw it away (the case). then, design a transmission to fit the engine.
The engine is "almost" purely Kawasaki, but John Deere made a transmission to fit the odd kawasaki engine flange. The two halves bolt together nicely when the gears line up just right. The only difference in the engine half is that the cam shaft is a little longer as there is another smaller gear under the camshaft timing gear that drives a hydraulic pump. The hydraulic pump is in the "transmission" half and ports oil to the hydraulic motor on the front wheels so it can roll along. the crank shaft goes through the bottom of the transmission (lower) half and drives the pto through the electric clutch. thats for the mower or snow blower if you're into that sort of thing. 

I went to the John deere dealer today and asked about a new engine and they said no. Additionally, they went through the parts with me, most of which are no longer supported or sold. I have contacted many small engine/repower outfits and they say that its a proprietary engine and they dont have parts or sell replacement engines. Someone on here mentioned I have a FC540V and thats how I found engine parts on ebay, but I have to be careful because while most of the engine will fit my transmission, at least one item is special, that darn camshaft. I haven't measured the lobe lift on the cams, but one of the cams looks like it has a bad wear spot on one side or half of the lobe. The cam shafts on ebay are not the same as mine, so I have no idea what to do, now.


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

FredM said:


> View attachment 78244
> 
> 
> I am curious to know how another motor can be fitted to the Kawasaki crankcase, seeing that this is cast into the drive assembly.
> ...


I figured out what all those big metal shavings are. they are spacer shims that go on either side of the timing gears and balance weights. 
I should post some close up pictures of my camshaft so you can inspect the bad spots and see what you think. I doubt it's bent at all, but the wear marks are concerning. Also, the end of the shaft that fits into the crankcase journal is shot, so... I mean it wore so bad it is out of round and one look in the crankcase at the journal bearing, you can see where half of it is gone, releasing the camshaft nearly completely.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

walterramjet said:


> Yes sir! I saw that $699 engine on ebay, but currently thinking I might just buy ebay parts needed for the engine.


Hard to find parts for that engine..... Cheapest place to get Kawasaki parts is Scrubber City

Scrubber City Kawasaki Parts


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

bmaverick said:


> If you can't find a matching replacement or brand engine, try the repower method with a Harbor Freight Predator engine. It's been done countless of times.
> 
> Some of those F model lawncare models have Yanmar diesels in them.


I was originally going to do as you suggest, but mine is not like a normal engine where you have a drive shaft sticking out that drives everything. Mine is a kawasaki engine with the case cover removed and thrown away. then they attache the engine to a john deere engineered transmission with the same odd bolt pattern. if you have a look at the pictures, you will see what I mean. also, the camshaft is a little longer to accommodate an extra gear that drives a hydraulic motor used to drive the front wheels. I will 
probably take a chance on buying used parts on ebay to see if I can resurrect it.
this is the bottom half (transmission) and a camshaft sticking up that goes into the upper half (engine)









This is the upper half (engine) that mates to the transmission.


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

Bob Driver said:


> Predator doesn't sell all that many vertical engines that would work on that machine. As far as rebuilding that Kawasaki.... With that much scoring in the cylinder, it's probably going to need to go oversize. With the machining, it'll run $500 for a quality rebuild and *YOU* supply the warranty.
> 
> Here's a link to a 18HP Kohler KS540 for $570 with shipping and *Kohler supplies the 2 year factory warranty.* Probably going to need a muffler, unless you can weld. These come out of Muncie, IN and take about 3 days. I've bought several dozen engines of these guys and never had a single problem
> 
> New KS540 Kohler


the only problem with buying a kohler or other brand engine is that it wont mate up to the flange on the transmission. I have spent a little time with the parts people at john deere and they want to sell me parts, but will NOT help me determine whether or not I'm wasting my time, except to say that most of the parts are no longer available. have a look at the pictures I put on here so you can see what I mean.


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

walterramjet said:


> yes, thats the trick. So, you take a perfectly good kawasaki engine and remove the case cover and throw it away (the case). then, design a transmission to fit the engine.
> The engine is "almost" purely Kawasaki, but John Deere made a transmission to fit the odd kawasaki engine flange. The two halves bolt together nicely when the gears line up just right. The only difference in the engine half is that the cam shaft is a little longer as there is another smaller gear under the camshaft timing gear that drives a hydraulic pump. The hydraulic pump is in the "transmission" half and ports oil to the hydraulic motor on the front wheels so it can roll along. the crank shaft goes through the bottom of the transmission (lower) half and drives the pto through the electric clutch. thats for the mower or snow blower if you're into that sort of thing.
> 
> I went to the John deere dealer today and asked about a new engine and they said no. Additionally, they went through the parts with me, most of which are no longer supported or sold. I have contacted many small engine/repower outfits and they say that its a proprietary engine and they dont have parts or sell replacement engines. Someone on here mentioned I have a FC540V and thats how I found engine parts on ebay, but I have to be careful because while most of the engine will fit my transmission, at least one item is special, that darn camshaft. I haven't measured the lobe lift on the cams, but one of the cams looks like it has a bad wear spot on one side or half of the lobe. The cam shafts on ebay are not the same as mine, so I have no idea what to do, now.


These are the pictures of the camshaft. with and without the extra gear attached, compared to a regular ebay kawasaki camshaft


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Only you can see how bad the camshaft ends are worn, but if you have an auto engine rebuilder in your area, then they should be able to spray weld the camshaft ends and then regrind to specs, I imagine that the other camshaft journal in the crankcase is worn also, there are no photos of this journal, I would take the motor shell and the transmission housing to a machine shop and ask if they could weld both journals and machine to specs before outlaying any money, a machine shop should be able to repair the camshaft as well.

Then you need to find out why this camshaft journal cut out like it did, was it lack of lubrication from being on the top side of the engine?, maybe load pressure from driving the hydraulic pump?, It may be difficult for you to try and find out if this model mower running the Kawasaki engine had the cam wear in the journals was common to them.

It is a pita to have a reasonable mower with this engine problem.


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

FredM said:


> Only you can see how bad the camshaft ends are worn, but if you have an auto engine rebuilder in your area, then they should be able to spray weld the camshaft ends and then regrind to specs, I imagine that the other camshaft journal in the crankcase is worn also, there are no photos of this journal, I would take the motor shell and the transmission housing to a machine shop and ask if they could weld both journals and machine to specs before outlaying any money, a machine shop should be able to repair the camshaft as well.
> 
> Then you need to find out why this camshaft journal cut out like it did, was it lack of lubrication from being on the top side of the engine?, maybe load pressure from driving the hydraulic pump?, It may be difficult for you to try and find out if this model mower running the Kawasaki engine had the cam wear in the journals was common to them.
> 
> It is a pita to have a reasonable mower with this engine problem.


this is the journal in the crankcase. the other end looks okay, but I dont know how it survived.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

walterramjet said:


> this is the journal in the crankcase. the other end looks okay, but I dont know how it survived.
> View attachment 78261


I see your problem with a replacement engine, and finding Kawasaki parts to do a rebuild is going to be a nightmare. That's a huge bore for a single cylinder 89.230- 89.210 (3.5130 - 3.5122). My 1st thought was a FX921 piston 89.13-89.15 (3.509-3.510) might work for the bore size, but the connecting rod small end inside diameter is 21.06 (0.8291). Your 540 is way bigger at 22.059 (0.8685). I hate to say it, but from where I'm sitting, it looks like you may be out of luck with that engine.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

walterramjet said:


> I was originally going to do as you suggest, but mine is not like a normal engine where you have a drive shaft sticking out that drives everything. Mine is a kawasaki engine with the case cover removed and thrown away. then they attache the engine to a john deere engineered transmission with the same odd bolt pattern. if you have a look at the pictures, you will see what I mean. also, the camshaft is a little longer to accommodate an extra gear that drives a hydraulic motor used to drive the front wheels. I will
> probably take a chance on buying used parts on ebay to see if I can resurrect it.
> this is the bottom half (transmission) and a camshaft sticking up that goes into the upper half (engine)
> View attachment 78247
> ...


Did you go to that link I had provided where that company sells a 'drop-in' replacement B+S engine for your machine. It even comes with additional hardware in the kit to make it a total modern engine replacement. You can still get parts for the B+S engine too.

*The second video was a swap to a B+S engine kit from here.
Smallenginewarehouse.com

In this video I swap a burnt up Kawasaki 22hp with a 27hp Briggs and Stratton kit from Smallenginewarehouse.com. The kit included everything needed to do the swap and it was actually a pretty easy job. *


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

bmaverick said:


> Did you go to that link I had provided where that company sells a 'drop-in' replacement B+S engine for your machine. It even comes with additional hardware in the kit to make it a total modern engine replacement. You can still get parts for the B+S engine too.
> 
> *The second video was a swap to a B+S engine kit from here.
> Smallenginewarehouse.com
> ...


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

walterramjet said:


> View attachment 78266


 Word of caution.... Video is about putting a 27HP V-twin into a F725. My understanding is yours is a F525 18HP single cylinder. Possible complications could run about the same as putting a 428CJ into a Pinto, starting with the exhaust header/muffler


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

have you seen those lawn mower drag races? they go pretty fast.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

walterramjet said:


> have you seen those lawn mower drag races? they go pretty fast.


The Big Time guys are running 4-cylinder Honda 750cc motor cycle engines, with the bike clutch, and a straight axle/sprocket. Hell of a lot easier engineering than stuffing a V-twin into where a single-cylinder went on a lawn mower. Increasing the HP/torque with that 27HP Briggs by 33% is going to lunch that goofy JD transaxle in a hurry


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

Hey, I have another question; I am embarrassed to admit that I have this small metal clip that looks pretty important and I am fairly certain I removed it from either the crankcase or the transmission, but the memory bank is empty. any help would be greatly appreciated.
this is where my pictures are Mower John Deere F525 and I have added some new ones that show the engine and transmission cleaned out. comparatively, much nicer than before. 
this is the mystery clip and small bolt









nice shiny clip with no home


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

I cannot see where that would fit in the engine crankcase, have a look in the transmission for an rectangle opening going by those wear marks on the inside of the cover plate.

Did someone get lucky and score a short motor?, sure looks like it, so you will be good to go then.


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

FredM said:


> I cannot see where that would fit in the engine crankcase, have a look in the transmission for an rectangle opening going by those wear marks on the inside of the cover plate.
> 
> Did someone get lucky and score a short motor?, sure looks like it, so you will be good to go then.


thanks, I didn't think about the wear marks, but it looks like it was holding something down or stationary.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

walterramjet said:


> thanks, I didn't think about the wear marks, but it looks like it was holding something down or stationary.












Check either side of the red lines and see if there is a wear groove running from each end, if the metal is thin there, may well pay to fill in with brazing, silver solder or even make a new one, you may get away with a larger flat washer to hold the plate down, be a cow if this was to break after all of the work you are putting into this project.


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

walterramjet said:


> thanks, I didn't think about the wear marks, but it looks like it was holding something down or stationary.


found it! After I assembled everything!!!  on the picture, its number 44 and 45, although I still have no idea what it is.
that means I gotta take it apart again and ... wondering if its some kind of vortex eliminator for the oil pump suction. my catalog description says "plate" lol


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Hard to pick up without the parts breakdown, where I marked would be the plate location?.


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

FredM said:


> Hard to pick up without the parts breakdown, where I marked would be the plate location?.
> 
> View attachment 78535


I'll know more by tonight, but I had that oil pump apart, looking for where the plate goes, but saw nothing. The bolt at the end of the red line is the area where the illustrated parts breakdown sort of points, but I'll know more later.


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

FredM said:


> Hard to pick up without the parts breakdown, where I marked would be the plate location?.
> 
> View attachment 78535


previously, I said I had that oil pump apart, but not on the actual JD transmission I'm working on. I bought another crankcase and it came with the cover that is just a cover, not a transmission like the John Deere. Anyway, they are different than the actual John Deere as the john deere has a place to screw this little vortex eliminator plate over the oil pump suction. First picture, non john deer. see the oil pump suction hole behind the screen. no place to bold the steel plate.









this picture is John Deere and I have the transmission vertical because thats the only way to install the engine without all the parts falling out.









in this one, there is a threaded bolt hold next to the oil pump suction. at least for me, not intuitively apparent unless I have my reader glasses on.









when I first started pulling this apart and removed the drive gear, the relief valve spring fell down and went into a large oil return hole from the differential. I pulled it out with a magnet, but then lost the screw that holds down the vortex eliminator. beliving it must have went down the differential hole, too, I tore the differential apart and of course, found nothing. after an hour of combing the floor, I noticed there was a screw in the top of the geared pump shaft I had temporarily installed in order to removed the pump casing. doh!
alas, the plate is installed.








🍔🍟


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Things happen to test us at times, in the early 80's I had to pull down an 1800cc Subaru engine in my wife's car that had developed a engine miss, welsh plug under the tappet cover corroded and allowed the cooling water to seep through and this caused the engine miss, long story short, Loctite hadn't long brought out their new liquid gasket and seeing that I had done a complete engine rebuild, I used this Loctite liquid gasket on the crankcase halves not knowing that as soon as the crankcases come together and air was excluded, the liquid become solid before I could tension the crankcase bolts and as a result after the engine was assembled and installed and then ready for start, started and all I could hear was this low knocking sound, you guessed it, the crankshaft had a little more clearance in the main bearings than required, so that was an engine removal and strip down and start over again.

Keep up the good work, even though you have a lot in front of you, the reward will be great.


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

FredM said:


> Things happen to test us at times, in the early 80's I had to pull down an 1800cc Subaru engine in my wife's car that had developed a engine miss, welsh plug under the tappet cover corroded and allowed the cooling water to seep through and this caused the engine miss, long story short, Loctite hadn't long brought out their new liquid gasket and seeing that I had done a complete engine rebuild, I used this Loctite liquid gasket on the crankcase halves not knowing that as soon as the crankcases come together and air was excluded, the liquid become solid before I could tension the crankcase bolts and as a result after the engine was assembled and installed and then ready for start, started and all I could hear was this low knocking sound, you guessed it, the crankshaft had a little more clearance in the main bearings than required, so that was an engine removal and strip down and start over again.
> 
> Keep up the good work, even though you have a lot in front of you, the reward will be great.


Thanks Fred. as they say, _Keep your shoulder to the wheel_, _your ear to the ground_, _your eye on the ball_, _and your nose to the grindstone_. I'm not going to admit that I cant work in that position, nor that I actually tried to


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## Jorden (8 mo ago)

Bob Driver said:


> I see your problem with a replacement engine, and finding Kawasaki parts to do a rebuild is going to be a nightmare. That's a huge bore for a single cylinder 89.230- 89.210 (3.5130 - 3.5122). My 1st thought was a FX921 piston 89.13-89.15 (3.509-3.510) might work for the bore size, but the connecting rod small end inside diameter is 21.06 (0.8291). Your 540 is way bigger at 22.059 (0.8685). I hate to say it, but from where I'm sitting, it looks like you may be out of luck with that engine.


Ok I have the same one and I got one that is locked up [email protected] hit me up


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

Jorden said:


> Ok I have the same one and I got one that is locked up, hit me up


Locked up as in a sieged engine or elsewhere in the powertrain? 

And posting your direct email will get you loads of SPAM as webcrawlers scan forums often.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

bmaverick said:


> Locked up as in a sieged engine or elsewhere in the powertrain?
> 
> And posting your direct email will get you loads of SPAM as webcrawlers scan forums often.


Unless, of course you are spam! Thanks for point out that it is poor practice to put personal information out there on these platforms. We do try to discourage it!


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

pogobill said:


> Unless, of course you are spam! Thanks for point out that it is poor practice to put personal information out there on these platforms. We do try to discourage it!


my email address?


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

bmaverick said:


> If you can't find a matching replacement or brand engine, try the repower method with a Harbor Freight Predator engine. It's been done countless of times.
> 
> Some of those F model lawncare models have Yanmar diesels in them.


Hey, I have a question about the gas tank on this old mower. It may have sat for years and years with about gallon of gas in the bottom. I dumped it and put maybe 1/2 gallon in with about 100 little nuts and bolts and shook it around real good and dumped and rinsed again with gas and then put 1 more gallon of fresh gas in. That was about 1 month ago. When I first got it running, it ran fine for about 20 minutes and then died and I didn't mess with it anymore because I had more work to do. Looked it over again last night.
1. good spark
2. good compression 75 pisg
3. gas in the carb bowl

HOWEVER, the gas was a very dark orange and stinks like old gas. I wonder if my tank is contaminated beyond recovery and have I messed up my new carb?

should I post this somewhere else?

thanks,
Walt


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

walterramjet said:


> Hey, I have a question about the gas tank on this old mower. It may have sat for years and years with about gallon of gas in the bottom. I dumped it and put maybe 1/2 gallon in with about 100 little nuts and bolts and shook it around real good and dumped and rinsed again with gas and then put 1 more gallon of fresh gas in. That was about 1 month ago. When I first got it running, it ran fine for about 20 minutes and then died and I didn't mess with it anymore because I had more work to do. Looked it over again last night.
> 1. good spark
> 2. good compression 75 pisg
> 3. gas in the carb bowl
> ...


Cleaning a plastic gas tank.

CLR straight with new fuel. Make sure the fuel line is completely shut off and disconnected to the carb.
Let this sit overnight. Yes, shaking it a little to slosh it around helps.
Drain.
Rinse with diesel. Weird eh? Diesel will get the residue CLR out and the extra nasties.
Rinse with new fuel.
Let the tank air dry over night.
re-install the tank, fill up and let it run.


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

bmaverick said:


> Cleaning a plastic gas tank.
> 
> CLR straight with new fuel. Make sure the fuel line is completely shut off and disconnected to the carb.
> Let this sit overnight. Yes, shaking it a little to slosh it around helps.
> ...


I will clean the tank as you suggested.
Note: after the engine stopped running, I was unable to get it running again. it wouldn't start. new fuel lines, new fuel pump, new carburetor. When I removed the spark plug to check the spark, I noticed how dry the spark plug was and when I was trying to re-start it, I had plenty of gas in the bowl, but it was bone dry in the cylinder and spark plug. Its hard to believe that running 20 minutes with what I thought was good gas or at least fairly new, would cause the carb to plug, but I think thats what happened. I will remove the carburetor tomorrow. And I thought I was on the home stretch. 🎂 🛴 🚓


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

walterramjet said:


> my email address?


Nope, I didn't see your email address posted here.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Check the fuel cutoff solenoid on the carby!!.


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## walterramjet (Jun 2, 2013)

FredM said:


> Check the fuel cutoff solenoid on the carby!!.


I checked that and in fact, it was broken so I chucked it in the trash. 
I just figured out what went haywire. pulled the valve cover and cranked the engine by hand. the valves weren't moving. i was hoping it wasn't my cam shaft or gears. I will put it on the bench tomorrow and tear it apart, again.


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