# I've never missed a payment on this $42+ lemon.



## David 1956 (Jul 21, 2021)

I made the mistake of buying a new 60 hp Massey Ferguson tractor. Never again. I've never missed a payment on this $42+ lemon. The last time, and there have been multiple times, it was in the dealership for the exact same repair, it was there for a few days shy of 4 months. It came back broken again. They have not fixed the regeneration problem with the tractor exhaust filter. My tractor hasn't run above 1500 rpm's mostly since it was delivered. The dealership and the dealer rep know my discuss with MF. I will be advertising this fact far and wide. I'm currently waiting for an attorney call back. I live in Hammond, LA. The dealership is in Livingston.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

We don't really know what your problem is, so it's difficult to offer advise. Next time it comes back from the dealer, go to the next dealership and sell it / trade it in.
I'm not familiar with these tractors, but running it at 1500 rpm seems low to me. Maybe that's what the new engines call for, I don't know. A massey brochure for the 4700 calls for around 2200 rpm. I run my tractor at or around this most of the time. Did you mention never going over 1500 rpm?


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

David 1956 said:


> I made the mistake of buying a new 60 hp Massey Ferguson tractor. Never again. I've never missed a payment on this $42+ lemon. The last time, and there have been multiple times, it was in the dealership for the exact same repair, it was there for a few days shy of 4 months. It came back broken again. They have not fixed the regeneration problem with the tractor exhaust filter. My tractor hasn't run above 1500 rpm's mostly since it was delivered. The dealership and the dealer rep know my discuss with MF. I will be advertising this fact far and wide. I'm currently waiting for an attorney call back. I live in Hammond, LA. The dealership is in Livingston.


Government mandating a DPF system on a machine running 500ppm sulphur fuel and can't afford/get the Dealer Only software to do regular forced regens to avoid major problems from just normal operating. What could possibly be a problem with that idea?


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

David 1956 said:


> I made the mistake of buying a new 60 hp Massey Ferguson tractor. Never again. I've never missed a payment on this $42+ lemon. The last time, and there have been multiple times, it was in the dealership for the exact same repair, it was there for a few days shy of 4 months. It came back broken again. They have not fixed the regeneration problem with the tractor exhaust filter. My tractor hasn't run above 1500 rpm's mostly since it was delivered. The dealership and the dealer rep know my discuss with MF. I will be advertising this fact far and wide. I'm currently waiting for an attorney call back. I live in Hammond, LA. The dealership is in Livingston.


In recent years as in 2019 till now, I'm hearing more and more of these issues. Not necessarily with MF, but with other brands too. 

Your machines' problem can cover a broad realm of components and engineering blunders that slipped thru, all leading up to the headache woes. Most companies now outsource the engineering analysis to overseas firms. Things are tested in a computer analysis engineering environment that is 80% accurate. Due to the costs of building a physical prototype like it was prior to 2008-ish, companies now rely computer models to solve the issues. Likewise with the computer controls on these machines. It's all outsourced. And internally to these name brands, the local employees much of the time are contract 6-month to 12-month engineers. None of these people have any loyalty to the brand because they are considered 'rented help'. Much of the brand's direct employee workforce are managers on up with no engineering or controls experience whatsoever, only MBA degrees to pinch pennies and pay for their Friday out-to-work lunches and golf games.

Then as a consumer we are stuck with dealers that can't afford too much time paying techs to repair the brands' blunders. 

With the Right-2-Repair and the issues many face like you, the high demand for pre-emission machines has sky rocketed. Many people have noticed this to the point of 2020 into 2021, old machines from the 1970s up to the early 2000s were being restored and the machines rebuilt. Yet, the supply chain took a crap at that time too. 

Parts and assemblies are made elsewhere. The quality controls are not enforced well enough for many brands today. Companies are just happy to get a warm body in there to turn a wrench or two to assembly things. 






It's really sad seeing the industry in the bad shape it is now. New machines are not even worth the price one would consider for 'modern' ingenuity of engineering. Nope, it's just the opposite, let the computer chips do the work and fail vs. the reliable mechanical mechanisms that have worked so well over 75+ years.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

It would be very difficult to find 500PPM sulfur diesel today.
Not knowing what the problems have been it would be very hard to offer help of any type.


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## JB Freeman (9 mo ago)

These are the same problems I’ve been hearing about for the last 5 years and have experience a few with my JD3032e tractor. That’s why I’m presently reworking a 1968 Ford 5000 diesel tractor so I’ll have something that will work all the time. No Chips, no electronic, and I’m positive it wasn’t design on a computer. It’s just a big hunk of metal that fires off and runs. It won’t win an beauty contest but that’s ok, neither will I. Best of luck getting your MD running


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## TX MX5200 (May 12, 2020)

Not sure on your model as I don’t own a MF but I do have the dpf system as most new models have. I don’t have the def fluid but think those are on the big 100hp and over models.

I’m supposed to run at or near 2000 rpm also as the increased heat keeps all the dog components clean. I don’t all the time but most of the time I do…during regen I have to rev up to around 2200 to burn it all off.

not saying your fault, but if ya told em you never or seldom run over 1500 that’s gonna be the issue their mfg rep is going to tell ya….assuming their recommendation is same as Kubota.

I’ve put around 80 to 90 hours on mine and it’s had two regens and just kept working at higher rpm for 10 mins or so.


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

David 1956 said:


> My tractor hasn't run above 1500 rpm's mostly since it was delivered. The dealership and the dealer rep know my discuss with MF.


You have not ran it over 1,500 RPMs or it will not run above 1,500 RPMs?


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

We have a 26XX model on the farm, it is my father-in-laws and I can't remember exactly which 2600 models it is maybe a 2606, anyway we got it last spring and have had 0 problems with it......We have one more Tier 3/4 engine tractor on the farm, my CK3510 Kioti, and we have had 0 problems with it also........I am not meaning to be an ass but, from what I have seen, a lot of the problems that people have with the new Tier 3/4 tractors are operator caused......They have to be used and maintained much differently then the older pre-emissions tractors.......This is the same way for diesel pickup trucks......I have a 2017 Ford F-350 with the 6.7L Powerstroke.......I bought it slightly used, 7,500 miles, in November of 2017 and have had 0 engine problems to date......


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## TX MX5200 (May 12, 2020)

Long story short is continual low rpm on a dpf tractor causes exhaust gases to not be hot enough to burn off particulate as required. As result all the valves and exhaust system, including dpf filter regen device become clogged with particulate that should’ve been burned off during normal operation.

The Regen process is to burn off particulate captured within the dpf filter system….not all the residual unheated components. Again, I’m not guessing this is issue of OP as I don’t know the run specs of MF 60 hp machines….but, most of these dpf systems have similar requirements.

Tge says have come that we need to forget the old school abilities of a diesel to run at idle all day long. If you are in a TIER level diesel machine, those days are gone forever and this includes OTR Diesel rigs and Trucks. You have to run em like ya stole em basically.


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## Mrsig (Jun 6, 2021)

Sorry your having problems. Try LS on your next one my self and a few other folks I know have had no real problems other than a seat frame brake on one and was replace very quickly.


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## David 1956 (Jul 21, 2021)

pogobill said:


> We don't really know what your problem is, so it's difficult to offer advise. Next time it comes back from the dealer, go to the next dealership and sell it / trade it in.
> I'm not familiar with these tractors, but running it at 1500 rpm seems low to me. Maybe that's what the new engines call for, I don't know. A massey brochure for the 4700 calls for around 2200 rpm. I run my tractor at or around this most of the time. Did you mention never going over 1500 rpm?





unsquidly said:


> You have not ran it over 1,500 RPMs or it will not run above 1,500 RPMs?


I

It will not run over 1500 rpm once the tractor computer realizes that it can’t regenerate. I can’t use pto tools as a result.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

David 1956 said:


> I
> 
> It will not run over 1500 rpm once the tractor computer realizes that it can’t regenerate. I can’t use pto tools as a result.


Well that clears up the question with the RPM. Now it's a question of the computerized regeneration.


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## David Hill (Jul 25, 2020)

Bob Driver said:


> Government mandating a DPF system on a machine running 500ppm sulphur fuel and can't afford/get the Dealer Only software to do regular forced regens to avoid major problems from just normal operating. What could possibly be a problem with that idea?


I am having a similar problem with a New Holland, does anyone know how to delete that that system, maybe then we will have a tractor


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## David 1956 (Jul 21, 2021)

The tractor self limits to 1500 rpm’s because it hasn’t regenerated the exhaust filter. The dealer and Argo are aware of the issue with my tractor. One of the Argo techs told me it’s a lemon and they don’t know how to fix it as they don’t know where the problem is. In the meantime, the customer gets screwed.


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## David 1956 (Jul 21, 2021)

pogobill said:


> We don't really know what your problem is, so it's difficult to offer advise. Next time it comes back from the dealer, go to the next dealership and sell it / trade it in.
> I'm not familiar with these tractors, but running it at 1500 rpm seems low to me. Maybe that's what the new engines call for, I don't know. A massey brochure for the 4700 calls for around 2200 rpm. I run my tractor at or around this most of the time. Did you mention never going over 1500 rpm?


Yes, the dealer and Argo know the tractor won’t allow itself to run above 1500 rpm’s, which is well below normal operating rpm.


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## MHarryE (Oct 28, 2011)

You are doing the right thing contacting an attorney. The regulations require warranty all emissions related hardware for - I can't remember for you size but think 5 years or 3,000 hours or it might be 10 years 3000 hours. Not running right from the start - you lawyer should be contacting EPA for one. Many years ago I had a problem with a pickup. Dealer replaced a part in the fuel system and charged me. It was clearly written in the warranty info that came with the truck that everything in the fuel system was covered. A few months bickering with the dealer got nothing but a letter to the EPA with copies to corporate customer service and the dealer got immediate action, but not from the EPA. Day after I sent the letter the zone manager called and asked when I could meet him at the dealer. We arranged for the next day. So we met at the dealer and I showed my paperwork. The zone manager said he would check but the dealer service manager (new person, the old one had been replaced) said yes, he recognized that as covered by emissions warranty and the dealership cut me a check immediately. Your situation is much worse but I suggest bringing the government agency into play. The fine for failing to perform on emissions can be staggering witness what happened to Volkswagen. My state is actually repairing roads with Volkswagen money that the taxpayers refuse to pay for.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Used to run into this all the time at a "Road Call Center" I had set up for a large OTR fleet. Driver would either ignore, or didn't understand, the regen warning lights on the dash. Just kept driving and the truck would go into "Limp Mode". Limp Mode meant 5MPH top speed, required a road call, or a tow to a place with Dealer only software to do a forced regen. Bill would usually run anywhere from $1,200 - $2,500. Happened about once a week on a fleet of 800 trucks. Transit bus fleets run into the same problem all the time. 

The problem with them is speed. The bus rarely sees 40MPH and won't even go into an "auto regen" mode. Had a guy designated and the software to do nothing but forced regens on every shift. On OTR tour buses, the downside on any regen was the DPF was usually pretty close to the waste holding tank for the bathroom.... Heat made it smell like some body was grilling up a big bunch of crap burgers


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## Tugguy (May 29, 2014)

David 1956 said:


> Yes, the dealer and Argo know the tractor won’t allow itself to run above 1500 rpm’s, which is well below normal operating rpm.


I have read most of this thread, I think you may have been operating a lower speeds to the point you built up carbon and the regen didn't do what it was supposed to and after 1 or 2x if it doesn't regen properly you are going to have the engine protection/emission's protection kick in. Read the manual as my tractor clearly states don't run under 1500 RPMs while operating and should probably be at 2000 or better. Never shut down in the middle of a regen. So far I have had no issue but occasional inconvenience when about to jump out of tractor and the light is on, I set it at 2000 and walk away. Also like prior comments dont idle except to warm up and that shouldn't be more than a few minutes on a cold morning. I think your DPF needs to be removed and sent out for a baking. If in fact your tractor never ran over 1500 from new then thats the issue and the dealer has to correct it and bake out the DPF. Also there are fuel additives out there that will burn the carbon so I add some regularly and I run T5 Shell Rotella oil with 10% tufoil after break in. LS XR3037 HC tractor with a Japanese engine 38 HP, essentially a New Holland Boomer with an LS tag.


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## TX MX5200 (May 12, 2020)

My biggest inconvenience is the awful smell the regen creates….not much wind flow when blading drive and the exhaust is down in front. I’m no engineer but always wondered why they can’t give exhaust a fluid bath and just dump the fluid periodically.

oil bath filter worked for years on the old air intakes…I’m sure that wouldn’t work or they woulda done something like that…


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## Tugguy (May 29, 2014)

Tugguy said:


> I have read most of this thread, I think you may have been operating a lower speeds to the point you built up carbon and the regen didn't do what it was supposed to and after 1 or 2x if it doesn't regen properly you are going to have the engine protection/emission's protection kick in. Read the manual as my tractor clearly states don't run under 1500 RPMs while operating and should probably be at 2000 or better. Never shut down in the middle of a regen. So far I have had no issue but occasional inconvenience when about to jump out of tractor and the light is on, I set it at 2000 and walk away. Also like prior comments dont idle except to warm up and that shouldn't be more than a few minutes on a cold morning. I think your DPF needs to be removed and sent out for a baking. If in fact your tractor never ran over 1500 from new then thats the issue and the dealer has to correct it and bake out the DPF. Also there are fuel additives out there that will burn the carbon so I add some regularly and I run T5 Shell Rotella oil with 10% tufoil after break in. LS XR3037 HC tractor with a Japanese engine 38 HP, essentially a New Holland Boomer with an LS tag.


good luck with it


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## David 1956 (Jul 21, 2021)

unsquidly said:


> You have not ran it over 1,500 RPMs or it will not run above 1,500 RPMs?


The tractor won’t let me run above 1500 rpm.


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## David 1956 (Jul 21, 2021)

Tugguy said:


> I have read most of this thread, I think you may have been operating a lower speeds to the point you built up carbon and the regen didn't do what it was supposed to and after 1 or 2x if it doesn't regen properly you are going to have the engine protection/emission's protection kick in. Read the manual as my tractor clearly states don't run under 1500 RPMs while operating and should probably be at 2000 or better. Never shut down in the middle of a regen. So far I have had no issue but occasional inconvenience when about to jump out of tractor and the light is on, I set it at 2000 and walk away. Also like prior comments dont idle except to warm up and that shouldn't be more than a few minutes on a cold morning. I think your DPF needs to be removed and sent out for a baking. If in fact your tractor never ran over 1500 from new then thats the issue and the dealer has to correct it and bake out the DPF. Also there are fuel additives out there that will burn the carbon so I add some regularly and I run T5 Shell Rotella oil with 10% tufoil after break in. LS XR3037 HC tractor with a Japanese engine 38 HP, essentially a New Holland Boomer with an LS tag.


I try to run over 1500 rpm but eventually the tractor wants to regenerate and when it can’t or won’t it eventually limit’s itself to 1500 rpm. The dealer sent a tech out once and after 3 hours he said his computer isn’t even recognizing my computer. It wouldn’t perform a parked regen ever.


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## Tugguy (May 29, 2014)

well that is the issue and if you never have been able to go over 2000 RPMs you cant make any real horsepower. The dealer should take out the filter bake it out and then put a different ECM in that they can talk to even if its just borrowed from a like tractor. if it can run up to full RPMs approx 2800 and drives well without bogging down switch back ECMs and see if it works the same. like a car any faults will generate a code and if no codes are present and it doesnt work with the original ECM then that was most likely the issue all along. you cannot baby engines with DPF they need to run steady and hard at approx 2500 rpms


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## Gary Alford (Jun 18, 2010)

David 1956 said:


> I
> 
> It will not run over 1500 rpm once the tractor computer realizes that it can’t regenerate. I can’t use pto tools as a result.


Just go back to the older tractors, save yourself alot of problems.


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Gary Alford said:


> Just go back to the older tractors, save yourself alot of problems.



Older tractors have/had issues also.........This is not a good solution.......


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

How difficult is it to remove the DPF?
If not ridiculous pull it off and use some solvent and a pressure washer on it to try and clean it out,
if you can get it partially cleaned it may be able to do a regen and fix its self.


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## David 1956 (Jul 21, 2021)

LouNY said:


> How difficult is it to remove the DPF?
> If not ridiculous pull it off and use some solvent and a pressure washer on it to try and clean it out,
> if you can get it partially cleaned it may be able to do a regen and fix its self.


That would void the warrant.


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## David 1956 (Jul 21, 2021)

David 1956 said:


> That would void the warrant.


That would void the warranty.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

Only if you told them you had done it.


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## David 1956 (Jul 21, 2021)

Just got word from my dealer, Hill's Equipment Sales in Livingston, LA, that they have ordered a new tractor to replace the lemon I currently have. It won't come in until next month but I have access to a loaner. My faith in people and businesses is being restored. Thanks to all that participated in my post. I'm happy!!!

BTW, my tractor is a MF 2860E.


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## bmaverick (Feb 20, 2014)

David 1956 said:


> That would void the warranty.



And also breaking Federal law for tapering with emissions. A bummer, I know. 




David 1956 said:


> Just got word from my dealer, Hill's Equipment Sales in Livingston, LA, that they have ordered a new tractor to replace the lemon I currently have. It won't come in until next month but I have access to a loaner. My faith in people and businesses is being restored. Thanks to all that participated in my post. I'm happy!!!
> 
> BTW, my tractor is a MF 2860E.


S-W-E-E-T. 

Keep us posted with those events too!


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

bmaverick said:


> And also breaking Federal law for tapering with emissions. A bummer, I know.


Not, if you reinstalled it after cleaning.


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## drclean (9 mo ago)

Mrsig said:


> Sorry your having problems. Try LS on your next one my self and a few other folks I know have had no real problems other than a seat frame brake on one and was replace very quickly.


I have a ls 4145xr, had trouble with computer for awhile, the regen would not work, air was replaced 4 times, they finally got it right and it is good now


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## David 1956 (Jul 21, 2021)

David 1956 said:


> I try to run over 1500 rpm but eventually the tractor wants to regenerate and when it can’t or won’t it eventually limit’s itself to 1500 rpm. The dealer sent a tech out once and after 3 hours he said his computer isn’t even recognizing my computer. It wouldn’t perform a parked regen ever.





Tugguy said:


> I have read most of this thread, I think you may have been operating a lower speeds to the point you built up carbon and the regen didn't do what it was supposed to and after 1 or 2x if it doesn't regen properly you are going to have the engine protection/emission's protection kick in. Read the manual as my tractor clearly states don't run under 1500 RPMs while operating and should probably be at 2000 or better. Never shut down in the middle of a regen. So far I have had no issue but occasional inconvenience when about to jump out of tractor and the light is on, I set it at 2000 and walk away. Also like prior comments dont idle except to warm up and that shouldn't be more than a few minutes on a cold morning. I think your DPF needs to be removed and sent out for a baking. If in fact your tractor never ran over 1500 from new then thats the issue and the dealer has to correct it and bake out the DPF. Also there are fuel additives out there that will burn the carbon so I add some regularly and I run T5 Shell Rotella oil with 10% tufoil after break in. LS XR3037 HC tractor with a Japanese engine 38 HP, essentially a New Holland Boomer with an LS tag.


I asked the dealer specifically about a minimum running rpm. He said there is none for a Massey Ferguson. It will need to regenerate more often when run at lower rpm's and less often when run at higher rpm's. The tractor should still do what it's designed to do, which is call for a regeneration when needed and mine isn't allowing that regeneration to take place. 
The computer/tractor won't allow for a parked regeneration or a running regeneration. He said that's the problem. They swapped out computers and it did the same thing. In less than a year of "ownership", the dealership had the tractor in their possession over 5 months. Good thoughts.


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## MHarryE (Oct 28, 2011)

Glad they're taking care of you. Incredible that you have gone without a useful tractor for an entire year after purchase. AGCO direct deposits one of my retirement checks - I'd have hoped they had done better since I left but alas, that's the way it goes.


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## David 1956 (Jul 21, 2021)

MHarryE said:


> Glad they're taking care of you. Incredible that you have gone without a useful tractor for an entire year after purchase. AGCO direct deposits one of my retirement checks - I'd have hoped they had done better since I left but alas, that's the way it goes.


Maybe you need to unretire and get them back in shape! 😁


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