# 464 Hydraulics quit working



## driney464

Hello all, newbie here needs help! I have a Int. 464 that today while plowing, everything hydraulic quit working, that means no lift, no power steering, no PTO, an spongy brakes! I filled the hydraulic fluid the other day and it had worked fine until today. I thought there may be air in the system so I opened the bleeder screws on both sides of the rear end but very little fluid came out and I left them open with it running for a long time but the flow did not increase. I can easily raise the lift arms, by hand, all the way up with no resistance (never tried that before, may be normal). Did I break something inside? or is the pump gone and how do I check these things without tearing it all apart again? could the filter being clogged cause that? (I'm gonna change that anyway) Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks


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## farmertim

Welcome to the Forum driney464!
unfortunately I a bit of a novice when it comes to hydraulics, when you get a chance post a pic of your tractor for us to see?

I am sure that we have someone with some answers that will come along shortly.
Cheers.
:aussie:


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## driney464

New filter installed today, and I removed the round plate on the right side of the tractor under the foot pad to expose the internal PTO shaft and it all looked fine! I refilled with fluid and tried the hydraulics again but still not working, I don't think the pump is working at all, has anyone on here ever changed a hydraulic pump


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## driney464

Or have any idea where to get one?


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## Country Boy

Your best bet would be to call a local dealer or tractor shop and ask them about the tractor. I have worked on my own tractors extensively, but I am not familiar with the 464. Or, you could see about getting an I&T manual for your tractor or a factory shop manual.


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## Miaugi

I'm far from an expert but on my "new to me" IH 484, the previous owner told me 2 years ago they had to replace the hydraulic pump and that it was a big job. 

He said they have to split either the tranny & diff or tranny & engine (can't remember which it was) and that it is not a cheap job. He bought the 484 when it was new in '82 and it had about 3,600 hours when the pump went out on it. Hope you have better luck.


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## Country Boy

On our 574 the pump is mounted inside the trans on a plate on the left hand side of the trans housing. You unbolt that plate, and the pump is attached to it. Replace the pump, reinstall the plate, and you are back in business. I spotted a 464 yesterday at my local mechanic's shop. It looks nearly identical to my 574, so I would assume the process would be similar. You need to get a shop manual for that tractor if you want to work on it.


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## cyrush

driney464 said:


> Hello all, newbie here needs help! I have a Int. 464 that today while plowing, everything hydraulic quit working, that means no lift, no power steering, no PTO, an spongy brakes! I filled the hydraulic fluid the other day and it had worked fine until today. I thought there may be air in the system so I opened the bleeder screws on both sides of the rear end but very little fluid came out and I left them open with it running for a long time but the flow did not increase. I can easily raise the lift arms, by hand, all the way up with no resistance (never tried that before, may be normal). Did I break something inside? or is the pump gone and how do I check these things without tearing it all apart again? could the filter being clogged cause that? (I'm gonna change that anyway) Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks





O/K none of these in U/K but it is built on a Doncaster built Transmission skid and is very similar to 454 & 574 tractors.

The bleed screws you talk about are i believe on the hydraulic housing above the axles and if so are for the brakes and nothing to do with the hydraulics. I note you have spongy brakes ??? so i will do another post on this issue but first we need to fix the hydraulics before we can cure the brake issues.

Now the hydraulics, from what you describe we have either aburst pump or i suspect a sheared pump drive or broken pump drive gear. Warranty shop repair time about 2.5hrs so for you probably a good mornings work. Relatively easy fix.

With tractor on level ground and with wheel chocks in use to stop it moving , Jack up and remove the L/Hand rear wheel (Can work with wheel on but its a bit awkward).

With wheel off you are looking at a square cast manifold with a filter bowl on it located just forward of the axle. See att for pictorial layout. This is called the Multiple Control Valve MCV.


Loosen and remove all pipes going onto MCV, loosen ring of bolts around MCV, break gasket seal , remove bolts, remove MCV from tractor (Be careful heavy !!!)

The pump is bolted to the inside of the MCV, you should now see what the problem is ??


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## driney464

Thanks for the replies to my problem! I have sent the tractor to a mechanic to have repaired. Seems like everyone I spoke to says basically the same thing that the internal PTO shaft has probably stripped the spline, and the tractor would have to be broke apart to be repaired, so with my limited experience and lack of tools, I thought it best to take it to the pro's! 
I hope your right "cyrush" about it being as simple as the MCV drive gear or the pump is bad, I will contact my mechanic about that hopefully before he breaks it apart! I'll keep you updated!


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## cyrush

i would sy it is fairly unusual tfor the pto shaft (Internally) to strip its splines as hydraulic pump @ full flow and pressure only uses 13hp.???, and pto components are used upto 90 hp. ???


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## robertgrisham

Driney, I have a 2400A that is the same as the farm 454. I had to change the hydraulic pump that is attached to the MCV. I have an I&T manual #IH-203 that covers the 464 among many others and has a good section on the hydraulics and pump change. When I ordered a replacement pump I had to get the numbers from the old pump to be sure I received the correct pump. The one I have is a Cessna pump. Been working good for 8 or 9 years. Good luck-------robert


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## Country Boy

Cyrush, my 574 was about ready to strip the splines for the PTO drive tube where it fits into the pressure plate by the main clutch. It used to knock when you had the PTO running and tried to turn a corner, since I rebuilt the engine and replaced the pressure plate and that shaft, the knock is gone. It had 30 years of wear on it, however.


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## cyrush

Wear on the splines on the PTO tube shaft where it goes into the clutch cover was diagnosed years ago (by Harvester engineers) as being caused by operating the PTO at an angle. 

When a hardy spicer joint (as used in PTO drive lines) is run in a straight line, all is o/k, but when it is angled it starts to Whip the drive line. On an angle in 1 revolution the joint whips, (Slows down and speeds up) this causes the driveline to be on load / off load and as such this chattering causes wear of the Pto tube shaft splines.

A way round this is to use a constant velocity joint but the down side is cost of the joint., Until of course a repair of shaft splines come to light ?????


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## Country Boy

The tube wasn't that expensive, and I already had the tractor apart to rebuild the engine, so for me it wasn't a big deal, but I can see how it could be if you have to split the tractor to change that shaft. We ran a chopper on the farm with that tractor for years, and that is probably what caused the shaft to wear. I notice on the newer choppers and other farm equipment they are starting to install extensions on the tractor drawbar to decrease the bend in the drive line on corners. Made quite a difference when finally got one for our Gehl chopper. Used to knock when turning corners with the PTO running, now its quiet as can be.

CV joints are all fine and dandy, but they don't work well in a farm environment. I have them on my Bobcat Toolcat 5600 for the drive shafts to the wheels, and if you even knick a boot and get dirt in the joint, they fail. Having to replace shafts at nearly $1000 a pop gets old fast. Also, CV joints need to be supported and can't be in a driveline that needs to expand and contract as they pull apart if tension is applied to them. At least the ones used in cars and IFS trucks do.


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## valuetrucking

My first post
I am looking at a Int 574 tractor. I just need a tractor to do some bushhogging and box bladeing around my property
I dont know anything about this tractor, it did start right up, no major smoke
steering seemed to have some play, but it could be low in fluid
tranny went in gear good
hoist went up and down, with no attachments, PTO shaft turned all the time, Im not sure if I could have stopped it by hand
I guess this is a hydrostatic (automatic) tranny, does this machine have any tranny issues?
can you get parts for this machine?
He wants $3000 for it and it needs a muffler, intake filter housing and the cover over the top of the engine
OK, Im ready for all replies
Is this a good tractor, or is it a problem child
I know its an old tractor, but some tractors are just hard to kill
Thanks


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## Country Boy

Never used a hydrostatic version of the 574, but our gear drive model has been very reliable over the years. We have over 10,000 hours on ours with three engine overhauls. The second overhaul was done as cheap as possible due to money constraints, so I tore it down and rebuilt it properly a few years ago. 

If the steering has play, its most likely the pivots for the steering system. Ours were badly worn out from 30+ years with a front end loader on it, so I drilled out the holes and installed larger pins. One pivot point has a bushing that may be worn. 

If that unit has a Marvel-Shebler carburetor, I'd recommend replacing it with the newer Zenith model if it gives you any running issues. We had the old Marvel carb and it never really ran right with it installed. Had some backfiring issues several years ago due to a frayed wire in the distributor and it damaged the carb. We replaced it and the new one was a Zenith. Night and day difference in how it runs.

Parts shouldn't be a problem, just go to your local CaseIH dealer.

I have seen these tractors selling for $5000+ at dealerships, so if it is in good shape, its probably worth it. See if you can get a mechanic to check it out before purchasing it. Might find something that an untrained eye might miss.


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## driney464

Update! Got word today from my tractor mechanic and turns out the clutch and internal PTO are all okay, but a couple of the springs on the clutch plate have come off, he said too much torque at one time may have caused it, but who knows! Still had to break the tractor in half to change it though. Today he's checking the MCV, sounds like you were right "cyrush" good call!!!


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## driney464

Hydraulic gear pump is locked up!


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## cyrush

Springs in main clutch plate (Disc) fail because operators decide to operate tractor economically by running @ around 1400 to 1600 rpm which is where max torque occurs so springs become fully compressed and eventually break

Let me Know when hydraulics, Steering & Hitch are fixed and i will give you the low down on the braking system.


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## cyrush

Whilst MCV is off you should inspect and clean the plastic screen on the transfer pump. It is located forward of PTO clutch pack and in bottom of transmission. Pump drives off pto hub.

What condition is it in ?? is it blocked, if so hydraulics may be aerated and this can cause brake problems.


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## cyrush

Further unfo , transfer pump layout & full hydraulic circuit to give you a better understanding.


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## clee

My dad has an international 454 tractor i think but the pump will go up when you first start it and go down fine but wont work after that unless you cut it off wait awhile and start it up again we took the pump off cleaned everything up pump looks fine can someone help me


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## cyrush

"Clee" what is it that goes up, then down??, are you referring to the 3 point linkage at the rear of the tractor ??

Is oil level correct in the tractor transmission?? 

When you say it works then stops working, have you still got steering or has the steering become hard ??


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## clee

We figured out what it is just not sure what it is called. There is a spot under the seat and the leverages to lift the blade up and down go into in. The one to let it down dont go down all the way can you help me figure out the name to that part and if you have a picture of it and how it works that would be wonderfull. Thanks


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## cyrush

Clee !! does this help ??

which lever is it that is aproblen and how much of the slot length can it move ???


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## clee

The one to lower the blade in the back do wou have a pic of what is inside the box under the seat


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## clee

All the levers conect to it under the seat canyou get a pic of that he needs to see how it is conected please


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## cyrush

This should help !! If external linkages are free it is obviously an internal job ??

To gain access to the internal linkages it will need the hydraulic housing lifting off the transmission.


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## Traviseldred

I am having the same problem. Where are my filters located on a 464


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## Traviseldred

Hi my name is Travis and I'm fixing a 464 International I can start up and my hydraulics work then stop but I have power steering the whole time, I want to clean my screens and change my filters. I just need help locating the filters! I'm new to this so any advice would be greatly appreciated


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## Texas_01

Hey Cyrush - 

Just curious...what would be going on if the hydraulics quit working, and also the PTO, and the power steering went out? That's what happened to mine this weekend...


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