# BIO-DIESEL?



## oldmanfarmer (Mar 24, 2016)

I did something dangerous the other day, I *read*, I read a story about Bio-diesel and that you can make it yourself and would cost about $1.00 per gallon to make, that is after finding a couple of containers for 1- for seperating oil from the H2o and fried chunks. 1- for Processing and mixing - used oil(vegetable/peanut), some methanol, potassium or sodium hydroxide. 1-Stainless steel for Washing the Bio diesel of impurities.

The 1st container will produce watery oil that pigs love. The 2nd container will produce a Glycerin laced with methanol, which I have no idea what to do with. The 3rd container will produce BIO-Diesel. 

Seems easy enough, right? 
Any idea how a tractor will operate on it?
Has any one done this and have suggestions for me?
And don't say "You'll blow yourself up", my son all ready said that.
Before I due any thing I would have to find everything I would need and that will take some time.


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## Hoodoo Valley (Nov 14, 2006)

I worked with a fella who used it in his truck. I believe you have to do a few critiques to your engine but aside from that, it is doable.


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## oldmanfarmer (Mar 24, 2016)

Tractor Beam said:


> I worked with a fella who used it in his truck. I believe you have to do a few critiques to your engine but aside from that, it is doable.


yea but worth it?


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Sounds doable! Glycerin laced methanol in your lawn tractor would allow you to cut the grass in no time flat! Good luck with the Biodiesel, hope it works out.... if not, all of us here at Tractorforum.com will remember you as one of the greatest contributors of all time!! Oh, and give your son your password so we know either way, how you made out!
Now silliness aside, make sure you do a little more reading and find out what the costs and dangers may really be.... and be safe!! It could be a lot of work!


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

bio diesel fuel has a short life span, can not be stored long, and here where I live the temperatures fluctuate enough to cause unwanted algae to grow in the tank and destroy filters and injectors. Think about it for a second...if it really was a good source of fuel, dont you think it would be a nation wide effort, afterall the phrase is"follow the money" and the big refineries are not letting anything to slip through their fingers


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Don't bother.. the cost to get started vs the return, equal out.. PLUS that crap sits in the fuel system & gells like nobodys business.. & the entire fuel system has to be disassembled & cleaned..
You ever leave a baked chicken pan on the stove for a day or 2?? THATS what it looks like in your fuel system..
There are still a few crack pots around that do it.. you have to install a fuel line heater to keep it in "liquid" form..
Another thing is, its normally run in a separate tank.. the engine is started on diesel fuel & once the system is up & running.. its switched over to "French fry grease"..
Believe it or not, it does work.. I had 1 customer who ran it & once a year brought his pump in to be un-stuck.. EVERY YEAR.!!!!
The savings he got from grease went straight out the window w/ a $700.00 pump overhaul EVERY YEAR..
BTW> you wont blow yourself up by making it..
YOU CAN dilute your fuel w/ it.. but at a 5% ratio {max}.. what are you saving?? 2.00?


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## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

I like guys to make biodiesel and put it in their tractors. I get them at auction or from insurance companies for pennies on the dollar, spend a few hundred R&R on the fuel system and make a few thousand in profits. Nice spare time hobby in the off season. Way better than wintering in Arizona playing golf!


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

The original concept of the Diesel engine was to enable farmers to grow their own fuel. A lot has changed in the last 80 years though. Biodiesel is largely unregulated and highly inconsistent, but if prepared properly, can make a viable fuel. It certainly makes a premium lubricity enhancer. I met with a startup that was developing a modular biodiesel plant for used cooking oil. It certainly requires a lot of processing as well as consistency of incoming feedstock to ensure a quality output. A very temperamental process. That being said, there is a company in Halifax now that is collecting up all the used cooking oil to make biodiesel for export to Germany in order to meet their mandated quotas. None of this remains in the domestic market. 


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## oldmanfarmer (Mar 24, 2016)

I am starting to think that


marc_hanna said:


> The original concept of the Diesel engine was to enable farmers to grow their own fuel. A lot has changed in the last 80 years though. Biodiesel is largely unregulated and highly inconsistent, but if prepared properly, can make a viable fuel. It certainly makes a premium lubricity enhancer. I met with a startup that was developing a modular biodiesel plant for used cooking oil. It certainly requires a lot of processing as well as consistency of incoming feedstock to ensure a quality output. A very temperamental process. That being said, there is a company in Halifax now that is collecting up all the used cooking oil to make biodiesel for export to Germany in order to meet their mandated quotas. None of this remains in the domestic market.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tractor Forum


I am starting to think that I should scrap the whole idea. I was thinking I could make a couple of batches, store and use it and when my current batch got low than make another batch before the previous batch was used. But My tractor is the only engine that runs on diesel and I don't want to risk the CAV getting gelled(gunked up). 

I am all for getting off circuit but this may not be worth it.
Guess i'll keep paying around $3.05 a Gallon. 

Thanxs for the input all.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

Another problem with starting to use 100% biodiesel, is that it has much greater solvent properties than petrodiesel, so expect to change you fuel filter several times within the first little while as old deposits break loose. 

I think making your own is a good idea, but it’s going to take a while before you get a good and consistent product.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

cost wise omf you are doing real good, we pay roughly $6.36AU for a gallon of diesel.

and in June 2017, an 18 million dollar Bio fuel plant was setup in Gladstone, Queensland, Australia for the manufacture of Bio fuels, I haven't followed up on that new plant yet, but it will be interesting to check and see how this is running.


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

Fred.. do yourself a BIG FAVOR & buy some old service manuals from IH, Ford, MF, that have the fuel injection pump OH information & learn how to do pump rebuilds.. THAT Bio plant if gonna be a HUGE money maker for mechanics & the fuel injection industry.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

I think before high % biodiesel blends hit the pumps there, you should start using a good fuel system cleaning additive to prepare the fuel system for biodiesel. This will gradually dissolve any build-up, and hopefully cause it to pass through without harm. Older rubber fuel lines will need to replaced in advance of the switch. You definitely want to do an EGR and DPF delete, because biodiesel is naturally more sooty. But if you have done all that, you could end up with a superior fuel and longer engine and fuel system life because biodiesel has spectacular lubricating properties.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

Much to old to be worrying about injection pumps and injectors and what may happen to them from Bio diesel fuels, only straight diesel goes into my Kubota, I was only making a point of what is happening here in Oz. pump guy, I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and the same for RC Wells, six bales and marc_hanna and a few others whose names escape me, I would also like to add that our James Cook University here in Townsville have been experimenting with making Bio diesel using Algae, and apparently things are going along quite well with this.

We have to experiment with Bio fuels because I think we have to import 90+% of all of our fuels, we have plenty of LNG for the time being and that is being sold overseas by the boat load.

Sorry omf for taking over your page


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Interesting in regards to making Bio diesel using Algae. It had slipped my mind, but now that you've refreshed my memory, I recall work being done in that regard. We need to find a replacement for fossil fuels, that's for sure! As a planet, we sure need to do something. Wonder what ever happened to hydrogen fuel cell technology?


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

Fuels cells are still in production. Mostly for utility scale or commercial electricity production. You can buy them for residential use also. They make them not just for hydrogen but also natural gas and propane. The problem is, they’re very expensive to build and hard to get consistent power output from one unit to the next. In additional to that, they’re not super efficient in that you can only turn about 50% of the energy in the fuel into usable electricity. As a result the operating cost is no cheaper than buying electricity from the grid and storing it in a battery, but the capital investment is huge. Hydrogen in particular has storability issues because the small molecule can permeate just about anything, which means a constant near-real-time supply of hydrogen is necessary. I think fuel cells do have a permanent place in energy production and distribution, but won’t become a significant percentage unless fossil fuels jump drastically in price. 


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

pogobill said:


> Interesting in regards to making Bio diesel using Algae. It had slipped my mind, but now that you've refreshed my memory, I recall work being done in that regard. We need to find a replacement for fossil fuels, that's for sure! As a planet, we sure need to do something. Wonder what ever happened to hydrogen fuel cell technology?


process is dangerous by itself, and not cost effective in large scale


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

I've lived in Charleston for over 30 years & just in the last 6 months I saw "A" sign {1} on the hiway for an "electric car" charging station.
I DO SEE a lot of hybrid cars on the interstates tho.. I guess they're charging them at home??


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

I’ve had an electric car for 5 years now. And quite frankly, it’s not worth charging up at public stations because you can’t get any meaningful charge in a short amount of time. Plus, whenever you find a station all the spots are used up by Teslas - the cars that need them the least. 


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

Charleston area charging stations:











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## ar_confederate (Jul 20, 2015)

Slightly off topic but we are starting to see natural gas refueling stations here in north Louisiana. I hear that natural gas burns much cleaner and the engines last longer. Is there any truth in that? Plus the gas is about 1.25 cheaper than gasoline. May eventually look into for a car engine.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

The only problem with NG is that it isn’t a refined product, and therefore has ‘dirt’ in it. This can plug the fuel system. I’m sure there is some filtering, but it is a potential problem. Secondly, the energy content is inconsistent and there are other impurities as well. 

All in all, it seems to be a decent alternative fuel. 


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

the only thing bio diesel is good for is an oil burning furnace or heater


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

I don’t completely agree with that. Biodiesel, prepared properly and with an appropriately configured emissions system, is perfectly good. It burns well, provides exceptional lubricity to the fuel system, and has a high cetane number. Plus it makes the environmentalists happy. 

The key thing it needs is standardization, which I’m sure we’ll get to in a couple years. 

The problem is, right now when people are making the switch, they’re putting it into equipment that has been run on petrodeisel, which a) breaks loose all the crap that collected up in the fuel system, causing problems with the filters, pumps and injectors, and b) because biodiesel naturally produces more soot, fowls the engine oil (due to EGR) and the DPFs. 

The other issues, such as algae/bacterial growth and cold flow properties aren’t unique to biodiesel, albeit somewhat compounded, but are easily dealt with through additives. 

If we can reverse all the emissions equipment regulations, we’d be in good form to make the complete switch over - but that’s a political issue that may never be resolved. 


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

from a mechanic and heavy tow truck drivers point of view, I have towed and repaired many bio run diesels to the shop.......just not good for todays injections systems.........and I know it will have an impact on the trucks and pickups that have DEF systems


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

I think the emissions systems are ultimately the biggest problem. I have clients who make their own biodiesel and run it at 100% in their equipment without issue, so there is a case for its use. 


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## oldmanfarmer (Mar 24, 2016)

willys55 said:


> the only thing bio diesel is good for is an oil burning furnace or heater


Hey Willy55 tell me more about using Bio for heating if you can.

Would it be worth a couple of batches to use in a furnace of some kind for a shop?

I have been trying to build a shop/storage/barn/whatever else a 16x30 foot Gambrel Building for the last 3 years and hope fully I will get it done and need a heater of some sorts this winter.

Would this have to be a full blown furnace or just some sort of gas heater converted?
I am thanking the fuel(BIO) would be to thick for a gas(NG, LPG) type heater?

I'm all ways looking for a way to save $$ and not pay someone else for things I can make.

My wife says i'm cheap, I say i'm wise, "well maybe old and wise" she says.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

Biodiesel does have a lower energy content, so make sure the price is right. Any furnace designed for furnace oil, diesel, or kerosene will also run on biodiesel without any Ned for conversion. 


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

What Marc Said


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

willys55 said:


> What Marc Said


Oops. Sorry for jumping in there. 


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

No problem....we all chime in to help when we can


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## thepumpguysc (Jan 25, 2015)

The only way I would run 100% BIO is if it was cut..
That's to say, as a supplement to regular diesel..
There isn't a fuel injection pump manufacturer that I know of, that allows for 100% AF
{alternative fuels}
There are service bulletins from Bosch that state, 5-10% MAX AF are allowed in THEIR fuel systems.. 
SO.. on a 20 gal. tank.. that's 2 gal.. no REAL savings.. AND your running the MAX allowable mixture per the manuf. instructions..
NOW.. take all this w/ a grain of salt, if you live & run your diesel engine outside of the U.S.
These ServiceBulletins's are for U.S. diesels only..


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

The key is the quality of the biodiesel. Not all biodiesel are the same. Feedstock and processing play a huge role in the properties, and affects causticity, cetane number, and energy content. Like I said before, we need standardization. This is likely why the pump manufacturers don’t allow 100%, because if you open the flood gates, you’ll get people running 100% vegetable oil in the diesels (which by the way, will run as long as you have a tank heater, fuel line heater, and fuel filter heater). 

One of the utility companies in Toronto (I can’t remember which one) has been running 100% for over a decade now. Seeing as at the start of that, there were no pumps selling biodiesel they must have had their own tanks and supply line. 


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## DanielCT230 (Apr 17, 2018)

willys55 said:


> the only thing bio diesel is good for is an oil burning furnace or heater


Why bio-diesel in a furnace - used engine sump oil is far cheaper and a more consistent product.


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## willys55 (Oct 13, 2016)

DanielCT230 said:


> Why bio-diesel in a furnace - used engine sump oil is far cheaper and a more consistent product.


I was saying it would be the only place I would use it........as far as engine oil, dude that stuff clogged my furnace at the shop every week, only benefit was that we got 3 to 5 hundred gallons of it for free every month, otherwise I would never use it. nuff said, this topic is dead to me.


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## marc_hanna (Apr 10, 2017)

If you want to use used oil, I would invest in a used oil furnace or boiler. They’re designed accordingly. 


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