# Understanding "unbalanced hydraulics"



## Newbie127 (Sep 18, 2021)

Hello I have a Kioti 3510. I noticed when I try to use a diagonal position on my loader control, that it does one operation completely, then does the other operation. For example, if I want to lift and curl the bucket... it first lifts it all the way, and then curls it all the way. I wanted to learn how to do both _at the same time_, but when I looked in the manual I saw the following phrase in each of the diagonal positions of the lever:

"the operation time may not be shortened much since the boom is lowered first and then the bucket is rolled back due to unbalanced hydraulic pressure in the hydraulic circuit" 

Again, one of those same statements in each description of the diagonal control operations.


Is it normal for this size tractor to have an 'unbalanced hydraulic' system? Is there a way to balance it? Seems like it would be nice to be able to do two operations with the bucket at the same time.


Thanks for any help! I'm a new tractor owner so I'm still learning.


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

With the supplied valves and the low volume from the stock pump it will require extremely fine control of the valve to get it to do more then one operation at a time.
With both valves equally actuated the hydraulic fluid is going to travel to the least loaded operation.
Which ever pair of cylinders needs the more pressure to work will not travel until the other cylinders have pressurized to the value the second set needs to start moving.


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## Newbie127 (Sep 18, 2021)

LouNY said:


> With the supplied valves and the low volume from the stock pump it will require extremely fine control of the valve to get it to do more then one operation at a time.
> With both valves equally actuated the hydraulic fluid is going to travel to the least loaded operation.
> Which ever pair of cylinders needs the more pressure to work will not travel until the other cylinders have pressurized to the value the second set needs to start moving.


Thanks for the response Lou, so that a possibility to upgrade? Is it a common upgrade, or am I crazy. Just wondering what most tractors/folks do. I wonder if the dealer does that upgrade or if that would be third party. 
Thanks again for your help!


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

You would need a bigger pump (more GPM flow) so I don't believe you can 'upgrade it' Some JD's and CHN tractors are like that as well but fortunately my Kubota's have sufficient GPM flow to overcome that issue.

I know that would irritate me to no end, especially loading big round bales on semi's.


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## Newbie127 (Sep 18, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> You would need a bigger pump (more GPM flow) so I don't believe you can 'upgrade it' Some JD's and CHN tractors are like that as well but fortunately my Kubota's have sufficient GPM flow to overcome that issue.
> 
> I know that would irritate me to no end, especially loading big round bales on semi's.


Okay, I wasn’t sure if you could just add “better” values or something. I mean it works fine, but I could see how things would go a bit faster if I Could do two operations at the same time.

I assume then this is normal for the 3510 models.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

It is called feel bloke,if you have the 4 way control, pull lever down for lift and push lever to left curls the bucket, so if you want the bucket to curl with a little lift, then the lever is moved more to the curl position but slightly towards the lift position, you will have to practice and get the feel, the control lever is designed to rotate in a 360 degree arc and is capable of doing what you want, my 24HP does it, so your 35HP will do it also.


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## rademamj1 (Sep 27, 2020)

You just need more experience with your tractor hydraulics. Your Kioti OEM hydraulic pump at 11.7 GPM is more than adequate for your tractor and its hydraulic cylinders. And yes, you can do more than one operation (raise and curl) at the same time, but it does not translate into faster hydraulic operations. And don't forget your power steering is also provided from that 11.7 gpm flow rating.


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Newbie127 (Sep 18, 2021)

rademamj1 said:


> You just need more experience with your tractor hydraulics. Your Kioti OEM hydraulic pump at 11.7 GPM is more than adequate for your tractor and its hydraulic cylinders. And yes, you can do more than one operation (raise and curl) at the same time, but it does not translate into faster hydraulic operations. And don't forget your power steering is also provided from that 11.7 gpm flow rating.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Sounds fair. Thanks for the responses everyone!


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Newbie127 said:


> Hello I have a Kioti 3510. I noticed when I try to use a diagonal position on my loader control, that it does one operation completely, then does the other operation. For example, if I want to lift and curl the bucket... it first lifts it all the way, and then curls it all the way. I wanted to learn how to do both _at the same time_, but when I looked in the manual I saw the following phrase in each of the diagonal positions of the lever:
> 
> "the operation time may not be shortened much since the boom is lowered first and then the bucket is rolled back due to unbalanced hydraulic pressure in the hydraulic circuit"
> 
> ...



I have a new CS3510 with the KL430 FEL installed on it... I have about 50 hours on it....First of all, which FEL do you have installed?


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## Newbie127 (Sep 18, 2021)

unsquidly said:


> I have a new CS3510 with the KL430 FEL installed on it... I have about 50 hours on it....First of all, which FEL do you have installed?


Mine is the KL4030


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

I am not sure that I understand your problem then.....We have the same tractor with the same FEL and I am able to either raise or lower my loader and either extend or curl my bucket at the same time......For example, I can raise the bucket up to dump in a truck or trailer and on the way up I can extend the bucket to keep it level....Is this about what you are saying that you try to do and can't?


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## Newbie127 (Sep 18, 2021)

unsquidly said:


> I am not sure that I understand your problem then.....We have the same tractor with the same FEL and I am able to either raise or lower my loader and either extend or curl my bucket at the same time......For example, I can raise the bucket up to dump in a truck or trailer and on the way up I can extend the bucket to keep it level....Is this about what you are saying that you try to do and can't?


Yeah. That is the case. I will try it again this week, maybe I was doing it wrong? You are able to just push the handle to a diagonal corner and it does both at the same time?


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

Yes.....That is pretty much what I do and I go a little slower when I am doing multiple functions with it.....I learned how to do this with the last Kioti I had before this one.....I had a CS2210 with the little bucket on it...It would do it but not as smooth or as well as the bigger FEL does.. How long have you had yours?


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Newbie127 said:


> Yeah. That is the case. I will try it again this week, maybe I was doing it wrong? You are able to just push the handle to a diagonal corner and it does both at the same time?


You just need to practice. Finding the diagonal spot that operates both functions the exact way you want it may be difficult to find. When I am stacking dirt for instance, I'll pull the joystick back to a point that I want the boom to raise, then as I wish to keep the boom going up and want to dump the bucket, I start to move the joy stick to the right to get the dump function going while the boom is still lifting. When done, I reverse the motion, move the stick forward to lower the boom and move the stick a little to the left to curl the bucket back up. I don't think your control is limited to just 8 quadrants, it should rotate through all functions by working it in a complete circle. Practice and get the feel of it.

Any Kioti owners out there that find the joystick functions with one action at a time?


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## unsquidly (Jul 13, 2021)

pogobill said:


> You just need to practice. Finding the diagonal spot that operates both functions the exact way you want it may be difficult to find. When I am stacking dirt for instance, I'll pull the joystick back to to a point that I want the boom to raise, then as I wish to keep the boom going up and want to dump the bucket, I start to move the joy stick to the right to get the dump function going while the boom is still lifting. When done, I reverse the motion, move the stick forward to lower the boom and move the stick a little to the left to curl the bucket back up. I don't think your control is limited to just 8 quadrants, it should rotate through all functions by working it in a complete circle. Practice and get the feel of it.
> 
> Any Kioti owners out there that find the joystick functions with one action at a time?


This is exactly the way I do mine. My last Kioti was the same way. I think all Kioti joysticks function this way


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

That is how the 4 way control valve is designed to be used, I thought I mentioned this earlier.


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