# international 574 hyd problems



## houndhunter450

hello, 
im a new memeber to the site but ive visited a ton of times. im a case ih mechanic with 10+ yrs of exsperence. im working on a 574 for a guy i know and ive run out of ideas on what to do with this thing!! the tractor was brought to me because the hydrulics would quit after a half hr or so of use. the pump was cavitating and would all together quit pumping. i pulled the MCV off checking for a suction problem with nothing found. after inspect the pump, sure enough it was wore out and system was heavy with metal shavings. i cleaned out the trans the best i could and put a new pump in it. new gastets and orings in MCV and between the plate on MCV. put new oil and filter on and sent it home only for it to quit just the same as it had been. now ive removed the flow devider and its free and working good. ive put in a new relief valve and still same results. when it quits pumping i can take the pressure output line off the MCV going to feed the hitch and remotes and it just trickles out oil. it seems to run out of oil after running tractor for a bit. i know it sucks oil from the rear section of the rear end and there is a transfer pump to move oil from the front section to the rear section. the transfer pump is possibly alittle low on pressure being its only suppose to have 40psi at full rpm. but its still pumping good flow and the front section doesnt get over full of oil while its running. i keep going back to the pump running out of oil or suction problem but cant find it yet. wondered if anyone else is having or had similiar problems or any suggestions?


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## Country Boy

Could it simply be sucking air from somewhere, frothing up the oil? Air in the oil can cause cavitation as well as running out of oil. On our 574, we have always had troubles with the block under the seat leaking oil. Every couple years we have to tear it off and replace all the o-rings. Any cracks in the housing or MCV that might be opening up when hot? Is the oil filter cover sealing properly? Beyond that, I'm not really sure what the issue could be. Try contacting cyrush on the boards here as he is somewhat of an IH expert, having worked for the company for years. Hopefully, he will see this thread and respond to you.

BTW, I moved this thread to the IH section of the board. Brand specific questions should go in their specific forum, unless there isn't one for that brand. You'll get more traffic from people with experience with your brand that way. Hope you get an answer!!


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## cyrush

O/k first shavings of metal in oil?? Are they aluminium?? If so what is happening is that the pump is being subjected to over pressure and the pump body distorts allowing the gears inside to cut a new track in the body. 2 prime causes of this, 1 is an intermittently sticking flow divider and the 2nd is a sticky main relief valve. Main r/v's can be changed but the flow divider is matched to the MCV body and is not available as a separate part.

Remove the flow divider spool and examine closely for any bright rub marks on the body, these would indicate binding on a high spot, and can be hand lapped with wet & dry abrasive sheets. The bore is a bigger problem, you have a hardened spool sliding in a softer cast iron bore, so damage on spool means damage on the mating lands inside the MCV bore. Find a piece of wood dowel to fit flow divider bore, cut a slot in it then wind some wet & dry around it and use this to polish the bore lands and remove high spots.

Be ware!! When handling flow divider it will warm up in your hands, if you insert it In to the cold MCV it may jam up until temperatures equalise.

Next, periodic loss of flow after several minutes running, as you have checked the transfer pump we will assume that is o/k. 

In the rear bulkhead, between pto and diff there should be a large rubber plug (looks like the end of a penis!!!)' this sometimes gets displaced into the diff compartment where it will float around and get sucked into the suction manifold porting below the diff, when you stop the tractor it will float free and hydraulics will be o/k for awhile till it gets sucked up again?? Have had this in the past and also plastic caps off hydraulic fittings inserted maliciously through the filler plug can cause same issue. As diff compartment is sealed only way to really check out is to remove the hydraulic top cover casting.

In investigating suction problems you can also progressively overfill the back end by 20 litres of extra oil to see what effect this has on the oil flow over a period of time??

Sucking air ( cavitating) generally can be caused if the filter has beem changed and the screen and check valve assy in end of filter is incorrectly installed?? Also over toquing of filter bowl bolt, causes distortion of the filter bowl and the square o ring the filter bowl sits on to seal should be changed every filter change


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## cyrush

"Houndhunter", what progress are you making on this ???


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## cyrush

houndhunter!!

Did you ever fix your problem??


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## houndhunter450

I have not been online in awhile, sorry for not reposting, but the guy got pissed at me because I was taking so long to fix his tractor so he hauled it away to a local tractor exspert and I drive by the guys shop daily on my way to the shop I work at and the tractor still sit out behind that guys shop so must be its not been fixed yet there either.


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## walt50

not to sound stupid but can you explain where the rear bulk head on a 574 is in dummy terms

I am having same problems as houndhunter, I can use my FEL and 3pt hitch for a while and then both will no longer raise. However, if I shut the engine off, they both will work again when I restart the engine but for a shorter period of time and then no longer raise. They can go down with out a problem. How can I see if it is the large rubber plug. What do I have to open or take off to check.

During all of this I never lose brakes, power steering, I can shift and pto works fine. I have change fluids (yes the arm and leg hytrans) and filter. It acted the same before and after the fluid and filter change. However, it seems to have no longer raise at a quicker rate when I full extend the bucket (to dump) or have the FEL try to raise the front of the tractor

thanks,
walt50


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## cyrush

See attached Jpg attachment which is self explanatory re checking if rubber plug is in position.!!

However if it is missing ??, removal is a pain !!!, as you will have to remove the hydraulic housing top cover to get in there !!

Let us know how you get on !!


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## walt50

Thanks so much, your a really big help, I have tried to find a diagram like this every where with out any luck. Question, if the plug isn't there, does that means that its in the differential compartment? Also, couldn't I try to get it throught the breather cover plate instead of having to take off the entire transmission cover to try and fish out the plug (does it float)? If I do remove the transmission cover and find the plug missing, do I need to change the gaskets, can I just use a gasket sealent or do i need to buy the actual gasket on the transmission cover or the side plate. Also, if I remove cover, do you suggest replacing any components in it, since it is so much work to take off the trans cover might as well change any components that usually wears out through age inside the bulkhead or PTO compartmetn. My example would be, if my clutch goes on a vehicle goes bad, I always replace the rear main seal on any vehicle when the clutch is changed to save me the trouble of having to go back into it again.


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## cyrush

If plug is not there, then with the symptoms you describe, it is very likely floating around the diff compartment.

You may be able to fish for it through the breather cover plate but the area under the plate is restricted by the draft control valve and the draft/position control linkage. Yes it does float hence the problem, stop engine, no suction, plug comes up in oil, start engine oil is sucked into manifold and pump and as oil level drops plug gets sucked into manifold mouth restricting oil supply.

If removing transmission cover there is a paper gasket, this must be replaced, or you can use "Locktite 515 sealant" this is a purple translucent paste that sets hard, available from any Case IH or McCormick dealer. This must be put onto a completely dry oil & grease free surface for it to seal correctly. Oil or grease on surface will stop it curing and the joint will leak!!

At the same time you must also replace the 2 teflon seals (white rings) for the brake bleed screws, latest seals are a rubber o ring, otherwise the brakes will fail, and of course bleed the brakes afterwards!! There is a procedure?? I can send you details if you wish??

Whilst you have the cover (9) off looking for the bung you should also inspect the screen filter on the transfer pump, you will locate it in the bottom of the pto/range compartment, in front of and below the IPTO clutch pack.

With the hydraulic cover off it will be worth while inspecting the parking brake assy??

Now som questions regarding your FEL ???

Do you use tractor valves to control it or does it have its own valve bank??.

If it has its own valve bank ? Where does the supply come from ?? And where does the return go to ??


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## walt50

Thanks so much for all this info. I went ahead and order both gaskets, I will also get the 2 teflon seals (o rings as suggested). What on the parking brake assy should I look for? The FEL has its on valve bank, mounted next to the right of the driver. Its funny when one (the FEL) gives out so does the 3 point hitch at the same time. It is hooked up to the two hydralic remotes on back of tractor, behind gas tank and above PTO. Uses the same fluid as 3 point hitch.

Procedure for bleeding brakes would be great. 

Thanks,
Walt50


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## walt50

When I do find the plug, do I need to replace it back in its correct position? Should I buy a new one if i do have to place it back? Also, a stupid question, everytime I do something with the tractor, I end up needing to replace something else. If I can live with losing the FEL every once in while, can I just leave the plug in the differental compartment or will it eventally cause damage to other components.


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## cyrush

O/k, the park brake is a fibre lined steel band around a drum on the pinion shaft, sits above pto clutch. If tractor has been run with the park brake on the fibre lining may have deteriorated & started to disintegrate and will have dropped into the bottom of the transmission and could be blocking the transfer pump strainer as described earlier!

Loosing FEL and hitch fluid together is exactly what will happen as that fluid supply leaves the flow divider in MCV then goes to hitch then remotes before returning to transmission housing.

The set up you have for supplying loader is not ideal, but it works for you!! Prolonged use of loader may lead to the hydraulic system getting very hot 90 to 110geg C !!!

The plug is rubber and will not cause any damage, at worst it may get ground up in the crown wheel and pinion and sucked into the hydraulic filter, but a big chunk could possibly get stuck in the suction manifold in the tranny casting and block it causing total loss of hydraulics and if pump is run for a period without oil it will cavitate and fail!!

The bung is there to provide a head of oil for the hydraulic pump, if not there the tractor may suffer loss of hydraulics when facing steeply downhill as all oil in tranny would run forward in the gearbox. 

From standard fill a further 20 litres of fluid can be added and will not cause any leaks providing tractor is not operated on slopes greater than 1 in 5.

Will post brake detail later from my main conputer.


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## cyrush

Ok these should help ???

Hydraulic diag shows differential oil level in transmission by fitting rubber bung!!


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## walt50

I have filled it up by another 12 liters because I have read about the 20 liters, but then the fluid leaks out by the clutch housing. So I will get the bunge out after hearing what could happen and replace it back in its proper place if its in good condition or replace with new one. What is the best way to hook up the front end loader?


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## cyrush

Even the full amount of extra oil should not cause a clutch housing oil leak so i suspect other issues, where exactly does it leak ?? 

Best way to hook up loader is with a HPCO ( high pressure carry over) plate bolted onto outside of aux valves, this provides supply only. Return goes to the plug in rear frame, see first diagram i posted. Will find drawing & post later!!.


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## walt50

leaks out of the clutch front excess plate


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## cyrush

Auxilliary valve and HPCO details att !!

Leak in clutch housing is most likly the oil seal in the clutch trumpet housing which seals the transmission and pto input shafts, needs atractor split at clutch housing to fix. Very common complaint easy permanent fix with latest seal !!!!


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## walt50

Since I am splitting the tractor, what do you recommend changing? I already change on planning the rear main seal. Hw can I tell if the clutch needs to be changed?

Thanks


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## walt50

here is pic of tractor, except is has new paint


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## walt50

Also, some oil also leaks from where the clutch house meets the engine (after I had sealed) the front clutch place, and out of a fitting on the left side of clutch housing, looks like a grease fitting,? Do I need to change the clutch housing gasket also. I went ahead and opened back up the front clutch plate to let the oil out and oil stop leaking from the other to areas.


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## cyrush

Nice looking tractor, is iy std transmission or does it have aT/A ??

Will prepare some info on the clutch hsg oil leak and bre back to ypu in aday or so !!


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## walt50

Thanks, looks even better with new paint. I had to rewire the entire system because the wiring harnesses were basically falling apart everytime I just touched a connection. Ok, another stupid question, how can you tell. i think its a synromesh trans, it has the thunder bolt shift pattern, 4 speed high, 4 speeds low and 4 speeds reverse. I really appriciate the education I am getting on my tractor. Also I have heard bad stories about my d239 engine with the engine becoming ruined because of the cooling system corriding away at the block or something like that. Have you heard anything about that problem.


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## walt50

Looking for parts that you are talking about for oil seal in the clutch trumpet housing. Is it a large square gasket called gasket, housing to rear frame, or seal, IPTO shaft lip? Also, my parts diagram show 3 teflon seals, one is for the orifice lube regulator, or do I not need to replace that one.


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## cyrush

Tranny is syncro on ratio - 1 to 4 and crash on Hi Lo Rev.

D 239 engine is one of the strongest and best IH ever produced, from the Neuss works in Germany. Yes liner cavitation can be a problem but virtually every engine manufacturer using wet liners has suffered the same problem at some time inc " Cummins" !!
Can be agravated by using local water supplies as coolant when the water is acidic in nature!!

Clutch hsg oil leak, no gaskets used?? Dont worry i will list out what you need tonight and post on here.

Have to go now as its time to visit the hospital ?? Talk later.


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## walt50

So sorry about hospital, I hope everthing goes well or has gone well. Can I do anything about the cavitation problem now, any prevention or checking I can do?


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## cyrush

Back from hospital o?k just havung test's ???

For reseal of clutch hsg see att doc's.

if clutch is contaminatedin oil, soak in gasoline and burn off by putting amatch to it,* be careful*

if you need details about clutch & flywheel assy let me Know 

Yes you do need teflon for lube regulator (forgot that one!!)

Re cavitation !! make sure water is not acidic PH 7.0 or higher is best also recommend to run on 50% ethylene glycol antifreeze mixture + Fleetgard DCA additive to reduce liklyhood of cavitation erosion, 50% antifreeze solution kept to strength can stay in for 2 years before changing, good idea to make sure all hoses are A1 before filling ??.


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## cyrush

"Walt50"

A bit more info on clutch assy on your machine !!

If your clutch is worn out and needs a new flywheel it would be worthwhile possibly considering an upgrade to the Heavy duty Rockford unit as you have an FEL !!


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## walt50

I took off pto side plate. Good news, the plug is where its supposed to be. Its in very good condition. Bad news, I have no idea what to check next to explain my symptoms. I did find tiny gold colored specks in the hydralic fluid when I drained the transmission to check for the plug. Don't know what that could mean? Keep in mind I have aleady completely changed the hytrans this month.


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## cyrush

O/k that is good!!

With the side plate off, inspect the suction strainer for the lube transfer pump, located just forward and below the pto clutch pack. If this is blocked it will stop the transfer of oil into the diff compartment, ( see hydraulic diagram sent previously??).

The other possibility is of course that something has been maliciously pushed through the filler plug into the transmission ??.

Bronzey coloured flecks in oil could be anything, wear metal from synchronisers ??, if its aluminium coloured by the oil it might be wear metal from the hydraulic pump.


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## walt50

oK, just wish I knew that before I put it back together and refilled it. I think I am going to take off the top pto cover anyway. Its a lot of work but I will be able to inspect all of the components and look at several possible causes at once.


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## jdaytona955

Cyrush,


I have a 2500b with 239 motor and a hydrostatic tran. I bought a non running 2400a with synchromesh transmission and a 2050 loader. I would like to put the 2050 loader on my 2500b. 
How would the hydraulics hook up? I have EVERY original shop manual for this tractor, engine and trans but none show me this connection from loader to tractor. The 2400 had the side mount ax pump on it but the filter housing that connected to it is all bent up. I believe the pump is good. Can I tie into my existing or do I need to add the ax pump. Also the hydrostatic will bog the engine if you floor it in high speed after it has been running a while. If you take a little time pressing it to the floor it goes fine and races down the road.? Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Thank you

Also, anyone in a pinch looking for parts for a 574 or 2500 or 2400 I would be happy to check my parts tractor for you and help if I can. It is a gas 2400a synchromesh. Topeka, ks


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## cyrush

Welcome to the forum!!

I will post later from my main computer the procedure for fitting a loader using the hitch hydraulic system to power it.

Here in Europe we never used the optional side mounted pump system!!. Although I am aware of it ??

The fact the engine bogs down may be that it is not up to power ??. Best check is to get a dealer to do a dynamometer test on the pto. 

As you are putting a loader from a 3 cyl machine (2400) onto a 4 cyl m/c (2500) you will need to extend the front frame mounting to match the holes in the bolster casting. The rear holes will remain the same.


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## cyrush

Here's the details to fit your loader using the High Pressyre Carry Over to power the loader using the hitch hydraulics.!!

Any queries, come back to me .


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## jdaytona955

Wonderful! Thanks for the assistance. The 2400a I have is a 4 cylinder gas I think it is a c200 engine and a 2050 loader. The high low in trans quit and the guy I bought it from tore it apart and never finished. It bought it for the loader a few years back. But Having it for extra parts has been really handy.


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## walt50

Hello, finally I have an answer cyrush to my hydraulic problem. The 3 pt hitch floater arm lost a set screw, it ground part of the pto bluk head housing which made very fine pieces of metal the was going throw the filter because they were so fine but acted like a sand blaster and basicly ground away the pump insides. Not happy, previous owner knew this because he had very resently put a new pump on but didnt take the time to remove the peices of metal. Thanks for all of the advice.


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## cyrush

walt !!

It's nice to know the outcome, thank you !!! Very often i post help/advice but never hear what the final fix is!!

It used to be just the same when as a company service manager we advised a dealer on a problem, no one ever came back to advise that the suggested solution was a fix !!


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## walt50

You welcome but really thank you, the options you can me were something I could do and rule out so I didn't have to pay big money for a simple fix. After checking the simple fixes and I still had a problem I took it to someone who knows a lot more then me and I am glad I did because the fix was beyond my ability. You were a big help, thanks again.


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## walt50

Just wanted to give you an update cyrush. After mechanic put the tractor back together it ran great (hydraulics) for about 20 minutes. Then he put a large amount of down pressure on the FEL. Guesswhat? The hydraulics for the FEL and 3pt hitch stop lifting again. He went through and replace any o-rings he thought were bad on the mcv, the box under the seat that has the cushion valve and the aux valve. He still couldn't get it to work with down pressure. Actually the problem became worst, so the poor guy was so frustrated, that he just dropped the tractor off when I wasn't home and didn't charge me a dime, other then the cost he had to pay to rebuild the hydraulic pump. So I started to read again. Ran into a guy from Wisconsin that sells parts on ebay, his handle is "redrunrite". He told me how he diagnosis problems like mine. Just like you, really nice and spent a lot of time troubleshooting with me. He finally said with all of the work I had done on it, that it could only be my pressure relief valve or my cushion valve (which he said the only thing that can go wrong on those is the o-ring). So I took a chance (167 dollar chance) and order one from him. Guess what, I swapped out the pressure relief valve and bam, I had hydraulics. Did down pressure seveal times, lift front of tractor, with no problems at all. Of course now, I have such good pressure, one of the o-rings on the aux valve has a pretty good drop leak, so here I go again, taking off fenders and the seat plate to find the leak and tighen up what every is not snug or replacing an o-ring but thougth you would like to know.


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## cyrush

Walt!!

Sorry to hear of ongoing problem, but glad to hear its now fixed. Keep in touch!!!.


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## walt50

Hello cyrush, 
Ok, need your help again if you don't mind. I found the leak. The leak is coming from the back of auxillary control valve. It's coming from the actuator sleeve cap. Its the cap that screws onto the sleeve itself. The cap has a smaller circle in the middle of it and the hydralic fluid is seeping from that area? Any ideas how to stop it from leaking? I have attached pic to show exact piece and diagram it comes from.

Thanks,
Walt


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## cyrush

The leak is from the vent cap or plug!! It is there to stop the sleeve filling with oil and jamming the spool. The area inside the cap will be dry if the spool is leak free.

The leak into the cap assy may be from the centre of the spool through the detent or spring return assy, or from the outer spool o rings (21) past the spool and body into the cap. The cap assy is designed to leak (vent) when the cavity is full of oil to stop it seizing the spool.

Unless there is mechanical damage or bad wear to any parts a strip out and replacement of the o rings should fix the problem.


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## JSS

*IH 574 brake problems*

Hey all, need help with newly aquired IH 574, Early build - s/n 2310013u002898. cannot get firm pedal on right hand brake. when bleed brakes. right hand flow thru tube was steady but with air., left hand side firm but would not flow without pressing pedal.

I replaced master cylinder for RH brake. now left and right do not flow thru bleed nipples w/o pressing brake pedal. left still firm, right still soft

Power steering seems fine. seems like not enough pressure into masters? Dont seem to have the supply orifice / screen refered to in messicks diagram - however I should note their diagram and my piping are not identical and mine actually appears more like the Early european diagram which is very poor quality copy on messicks site.

Other notes tractor has 2 seperate PTOs, 1000 and 540. 3 point works fine. Gas model.

Any help decoding s/n also appreciated.

Thanks Jeff


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## oldguychuck

Hello All

I also have an International 574 with a new problem for me.

A couple of days ago, I fired up and started out, but all of a sudden there was an ongoing gush of liquid out a down spout by the heel of my right boot. My shop was close, so I drove in there, got a can and filled some fluid with it. Tried to lite a bit on fire, took a minute or so to catch, when fully burned, & left a deposit of metal fillings behind.

I have remove all filters and am busy replacing them. I have drained all fluids and oils fully and am replacing them. Still no more fillings.

Anyone know what my problem is and how to, first check it, then fix it ?

THx all !


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## goatblain

My 574 developed this problem this past winter. After trying a number of things I think I have finally figured out that it's the brakes. Metal filings were mysteriously accumulating in the filter. Eventually the bypass valve screen would fill up and the hydraulic system would slow then stop. Steering would be the last to be affected. I just kept replacing the filter every month. What clued me in to the brakes was once this summer I stepped heavily on the right brake and the wheel locked up in a weird way. Rocking the tractor back and forward a few times loosened the brake. After that I avoided using the right and left brakes separately and would try to avoid heavy braking. The frequency of filter changes dropped dramatically. I'm about to tackle the right brake rebuild this week. I'll take some pictures and report my findings here.


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## goatblain

I've posted a new thread about replacing my right brake. As I said in the previous post, I'm pretty sure it's the source of the metal filings. Here's the thread.


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## Kevin Cox

I've recently acquired a 1972 International 574 mine is having the same issue as this post. Does anyone have dome pictures or diagrams of the pressure relief valve of for that matter any materials or manuals i can download will be helpful.


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## Keith Huffer

I am having a similar problem... Loader will not raise hissing sound under seat on right side. Could this be the hydraulic pump.


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## MXZ05

cyrush said:


> See attached Jpg attachment which is self explanatory re checking if rubber plug is in position.!!
> 
> However if it is missing ??, removal is a pain !!!, as you will have to remove the hydraulic housing top cover to get in there !!
> 
> Let us know how you get on !!


I'm having a very similar issue on a different tractor, my mid 60's 2404. Does my tractor have the same transmission setup with the plug that could have come loose?
thanks


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## Kyle pontius

MXZ05 said:


> I'm having a very similar issue on a different tractor, my mid 60's 2404. Does my tractor have the same transmission setup with the plug that could have come loose?
> thanks


I had a guy come pressure test my system and check a few things over he told me it was the hydraulic pump. So I replaced the pump snd gaskets and the oil and it fixed the problem was expensive but worth it for how strong and responsive everything is now


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