# Starting Issues of 8N



## VFord8N

I have completed all the traditional checks and or replacements of the wires, plugs, fuel system etc, but sadly my 1949 tractor will only start if I remove the plugs and inject a couple of shots of oil in each cylinder. Even then, it is a tough start. Once started, it runs great, I just shudder to shut it down. Instead of oil, I did try AC Delco upper engine cleaner with 15 mm in each cylinder but to no avail. Hmmm. I have my theories of what is causing my 70 year old engine grief, but I'd love to hear about any of your relevant experiences.


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## pogobill

Just a quick reply, but did you check the cylinder compression at all?


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## VFord8N

Thanks for your follow-up question. Finally, I did borrow a compression gauge and found the following results (the third reading under "dry" conditions): Plug 1 - 100 PSI; Plug 2 90 PSI; Plug 3 90 PSI; Plug 4 85 PSI. I have yet to get the readings under "wet" or oil injection conditions. The Ford manual specs the engine at 90 PSI (minimum). My mechanics say things are still in the acceptable range and await the "wet" readings.


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## pogobill

I was just thinking about the oil in the cylinders helping any piston ring issues, and kicking the compression up a little. That being said, maybe the oil is giving you a little extra vacuum and you are perhaps dealing with a fuel problem and your engine isn't able to draw in the fuel due to a carb issue, or perhaps the air filter screen / oil is too dirty to allow an easy start. 
Is it a front mount or side mount distributor, and have you checked the points, and perhaps the timing?


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## VFord8N

In the fuel area, the fuel tank, lines and bowl are brand new, air screen has been cleaned. The carb has recently been rebuilt. All this newer stuff had the tractor starting. Now the oil has not been changed recently but there has not been that much running time in the last 2 years due to questionable performance issues that resolved themselves with a new governor.
It is a front mounted distributor (fun to get at), with a relatively new electronic ignition system. I have no comment on timing as yet.


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## pogobill

I believe that with the front mount distributor, the timing is set before you put the cap back on.


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## VFord8N

Here are my results under "wet" or squirt oil in each cylinder results: Plug 1 100 PSI; Plug 2 110 PSI; Plug 3 115 PSI; Plug 4 130 PSI. I will relay these results to my car mechanics as well to see their interpretation. I have my theories here but that's all they are - theories. Comments??

In terms of timing it was set when the electronic ignition was installed and ran and started reasonably after that. But, I will ask about that too. Comments??


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## VFord8N

My mechanic will make my tractor his winter project. He sees that the compression is at the minimum in 3 cylinders and just below in the 4th. So, it could be rings. It could also be a worn timing chain. He will only know more once he pulls the head off. He is an expert engine mechanic but not a tractor guy per se. But, I think he is the right guy for me as it is the engine that potentially needs attention. I will keep folks posted when I know more.


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## Ultradog

VFord8N said:


> My mechanic will make my tractor his winter project. He sees that the compression is at the minimum in 3 cylinders and just below in the 4th. So, it could be rings. It could also be a worn timing chain. He will only know more once he pulls the head off. He is an expert engine mechanic but not a tractor guy per se. But, I think he is the right guy for me as it is the engine that potentially needs attention. I will keep folks posted when I know more.



Hmmm...
If he told you it could be the timing chain he might not be the man for the job.
And a bit about old tractors and their value.
An engine rebuild on one of those Ns is going to cost you upwards of 2 grand if you can't do it yourself and have it done.
Add that to the amount you already have into the tractor and you will be so far under water on it as to make it a sad affair.
The Ford 8Ns were fun, nimble little tractors but they sooo lack in features. No live hydraulucs, no live power, no power steering, antiquated hyraulics, and a reverse speed that was so FAST as to make your ears flap in the breeze.
Before you drop all that dough into it at least consider selling it and buy a newer tractor.
The features and options I mention above may not mean much to you if you are inexperienced with tractors but if you could run, say a Ford 3000 for a few hours you would say: "How could I Ever be happy with a tractor that didn't have at least SOME of the features it has.


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## VFord8N

Thanks for those wise words. I will keep them in mind and look at the market place. My dilemma is that I know that this tractor has not been abused in the last 30 years and I have recently changed many items ( battery, rear rim, rear tire, starter, governor, gas tank, fuel system, exhaust system, belts, electronic ignition, cap etc). So, I know what this tractor has in the positive column. Yes, more money may or may not be wise; it does, however, the small forestry log pick-up jobs and grading well when it starts. Now to buy a newer model with those nicer features would indeed be nice BUT I am buying someone else's problems given it is the 1950's models you refer to. That said, your advice is sound food for thought. Thank you. I will keep folks posted.


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## aaron.d2010

VFord8N said:


> My mechanic will make my tractor his winter project. He sees that the compression is at the minimum in 3 cylinders and just below in the 4th. So, it could be rings. It could also be a worn timing chain. He will only know more once he pulls the head off. He is an expert engine mechanic but not a tractor guy per se. But, I think he is the right guy for me as it is the engine that potentially needs attention. I will keep folks posted when I know more.


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## aaron.d2010

Majority of the old Ford 8N tractors had a composite gear on the cam no timing chain on these tractors all gear driven. The thought was by it not being metal it would run quieter the center of this is aluminum and is attached to the composite by glue over time it will wear in the center will spend causing it to get out of time. Try checking this. Chances are if you have checked fuel and fire and compression and still nothing it is out of time a tall tale sign as if it's blowing out "backfiring"of the carburetor instead of sucking into the carburetor. If this isn't a problem it could be in an old worn cam lobes. Pay close attention to the coil in the distributor making sure all of that is properly working. Good luck and hope this helps you in any way


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## VFord8N

Thanks for your ideas. Some of this is getting beyond my personal mechanical capability. I will pass this on to my mechanic. Except for the "non-starting" which is a very recent issue; it has been a nice workhorse and fun to use and maintain. If my starting problem was resolved, I would happily continue on despite the 8N being devoid of some of the "nice" features.


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## pogobill

Well, I hope you resolve the issue successfully. I have two of these old girls, One front mount and one side mount. Maybe a cylinder clean up and a set of rings may get you going. If you go for a rebuild, it may just last you another 70 years!


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## bbirder

If you are happy with an 8n you will be ecstatic with a real tractor. Do you still run DOS on your computer? Same analogy. And I must add, I once owned an 8N and overhauled it completely. After I realized it could kill you with that clutch it was on the sale block. There are definitely many buyers out there. Sell it and be straight about what you have in it and someone will snatch it up and have it running before they leave your house. Cut your losses and put the money towards a newer tractor with a FEL and I guarantee you will never regret it. Leave that machine to those who have used them all their lives. You have a cancer that won't end.


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## VFord8N

Thanks for the last 2 opinions. I tinkered with it for unsuccessfully for several hours and it failed to start. Injecting oil in the cylinders did not help any longer. I had my mechanic tow it 1/2 mile to his garage to make an assessment. Yes, spending endlessly is not my option. I am just perplexed that a working machine has degraded to a lawn ornament status. I will keep you posted on my adventure. Yes, the newer models are enticing; but my current machine did what I needed when it worked.


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## pogobill

Have you tried using modern wire wrapped plug wires instead of the Copper core wires used on the old 6 volt points ignition? Not sure it would help, but it may not hurt.


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## VFord8N

Well, thanks for that. My tractor did have modern wrapped plugs at one time, but in my renewal of its ignition system, I changed to the copper core which according to one mechanic would help in the delivery of the weak 6V current to the plugs. That did seem to help at the time several years back. So now it has the copper core wires which may impair radio reception not that my 8N has a radio


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## pogobill

No Radio!?!?


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## VFord8N

Solving my Ford 8N starting issue:

My tractor starting problem was a “winter” project at my local mechanic. He found that throttle lever setting and the governor (recently new) both could feed into and adjust the carburetor function. This was not normal. The throttle position should “lock” in a selected position on its slotted arced dial and the governor should be dynamically doing the minor adjustments. So, to fix the situation, the lever had welds added so the worn slotted arced dial so that the “gas” lever would lock at selected positions without vibrations moving it. 

BTW, my Ford 8N must have autolite 216 plugs with 0.020 gap. No substitute of another brand or equivalent on the plug because of the resistance feature of autolite 216 is just right of the front mounted distributor. It's got to do with resistance. 

Also, it was found that my 6 volt electrical system was erratically starting or not, most often not. All the fuel and electric components were new or cleared inspection. The problem was wiring. The wiring was not supplying the voltage at its delivery points or heating up and causing running problems. So all the wiring except lights was changed to 8 gauge. For advice see: http://www.myfordtractors.com/electrical.shtml. Wow what a difference!! The tractor has never run so nicely AND it starts. The last tractor re-wiring had been done some 20 years ago and its small gauge finally caused untold problems.


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## VFord8N

Starting problem is back!!

Hey does anyone have any suggestions on where to look? It will crank but not start. Sometimes after much cranking and, with rest bits, it will catch. But it's tough on the system!! Once it does catch and starts, it is great. It runs like a charm with smooth throttle control. So...what is causing me this distress? So much is new or checked out from gaslines to exhaust manifold to wires (see above) . Is there some kind of incompete vaccum that has been missed? There is spark (6V+) and there is gas (remove carb screw and it flows) and the timing has been set. The plugs and wires are new. I tried spraying Quick start at the air intake but that made no difference; my mechanic and I are stymied. (I did do the Steiner u-tube checks and all is fine). Any and all suggegstions appreciated.


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