# WHY, 16,18,20HP to mow the lawn?? OPINIONS



## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

Argee got me thinking. HUM imagine that.
I know most everyones mind is geared towards snow removal this time of year, but just wondering why most people seem to be buying such large engine tractors to mow with.

Why do we need such large engines in a L&G tractor?
Or why are people buying the larger engine machines?


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## guest (Sep 16, 2003)

Bigger is Better? 
Or at least thats what we are lead to believe... probably not true as some of the older 6,8,10 HP machines can do as much if not more than the new 18,20 and 25 hp motored machines...


I would chaulk it up to a marketing ploy.. 

But the older machines with 6,8,10 hp.. do they havbe 3 blades on their decks or 2? maybe the extra blade requires a few more hp


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

Simple_John
There are a lot of smaller HP tractors with 3 blade decks.


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by simple_john _
> *Bigger is Better?
> 
> I would chaulk it up to a marketing ploy..
> ...


That's exactly what it is. Something new, something different.....it helps to sell tractors.


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Argee _
> *That's exactly what it is. Something new, something different.....it helps to sell tractors. *


It sure does, and for a bunch more $$$$ mg: 

I just wonder why people want to buy them big engines if it is not really needed. I see them using more gas?


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## KevinJD325 (Sep 21, 2003)

Was just outside pushing 12" of the frozen stuff. As far as horsepower goes, I'm happy to say I used all that 18HP in the tractor. I'm sure you don't need it to cut grass, unless the grass is 18" tall, or to pull the utility trailer around the acres. The most the machine has strained was driving up some fairly steep slopes pulling a trailer that was definitely overloaded and one time we were pushing allot of dirt around at a neighbors. Maybe the engine was just working a bit, for a change. Never had it stall out while working or had to stop a project due to overheating and the like.

Now do I need 20HP. plus? Not sure about that one. Maybe if I was running a tiller, post hole digger, or a 2 stage snowblower with lots of counter weights it might come in handy. Though I have a hunch the HP. would do the job there as well. 

There's plenty of lawn and garden tractors out there doing a fine job of what they do with less than 20HP. Proof is the guy that weighs 375 lbs. riding the Snapper riding mower cutting his grass on Sat. afternoon. Really, I had one across the street at the old house. You know that mower lasted him over 15years. My guess is it had 8-10 hp. Not bad!!!

Kevin


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

Hey Kevin,
sure would of liked to see pictures of you pushing all that snow. Sounds like fun to me.
Actually the back 3 acres of my property I only mow about 3 or 4 times per year and it gets higher than the hood on my AC-616, so I too need all of that 16HP to mow that stuff. Even had so much under the hood once it cought fire mg: Sure made me jump.


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

I'm glad I got the extra HP thats for sure...I'm happy about the newer technology engines overall, and how efficient they are and reliable (electronic ignition, etc..)
I know in a lot of ways they dont make the machines like they used to, and I think that applys mostly to the frames and chassis, rear ends. But the engines today are so much better !! 

I remember using my single cylinder Cub 125 and using basically all the power it had to mow grass, it did it with no compliant for years on end...my newer Cub can do it 1/4 throttle and not lug, and it dosent seem like its working at all...
The way it cuts the grass, I never had a better lawn from it...but that another topic...
With the extra power, it is nice for it to be mated to a chassis that can do something with it...it makes a difference

Duc


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

*Sometimes HP is good*

Do you think this is to much HP for blowing snow:smiles: 
Jody

<img src=http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=7e58ac80-5b0d-2fb7-3bb9-41b419d07c1d&size=>


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

*Here is a plow*

Here is a snow plow.
Jody

<img src=http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=20c5449b-40fe-585d-7e14-608956f56170&size=>


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

WOW WEEEEEEEEEEE mg: 

Nice pictures Jody. I love looking at stuff like that. 

Nope not too much HP for me to blow snow. Would love to be driving that thing.


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rusty_Nuts _
> *I just wonder why people want to buy them big engines if it is not really needed. I see them using more gas? *


Because some of us, me especially, don't like spending our free time woking on the old ones.


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Argee _
> *Because some of us, me especially, don't like spending our free time woking on the old ones. *


Hard for me to imagine, as I love it. Feels great when you bring home one of those old non running tractors and get that first blast, the first pop out of the engine. Just something about it feels good. Putting the work into it, to get it to run makes it all that more special.


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

I had a couple of old Case 446's. Seemed like everytime I turned around I was working on them, sometimes before I could get the work I was using them for finished. That got tiresome so I sold them off and bought a Craftsman GT5000. Haven't regretted it yet.


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## KevinJD325 (Sep 21, 2003)

Jody: Now that's a cool picture. Is it a single or two stage blower?

I'll try to get some pics of the recent snow.


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

I think that big thing is a dang train. mg:


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Argee _
> *I had a couple of old Case 446's. Seemed like everytime I turned around I was working on them, sometimes before I could get the work I was using them for finished. That got tiresome so I sold them off and bought a Craftsman GT5000. Haven't regretted it yet. *


I have been thinking of buying a new one to keep the grass mowed with, that way I can play with the old ones when I want. Not looking for something as nice as the GT5000 just something cheap to keep the 2 acres around the house trimmed.


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rusty_Nuts _
> *I think that big thing is a dang train. mg: *


It is its two blowers one on each end and two engines in the middle it moves about 8 mph blowing snow:driving: it blows the snow about 40 yards and cuts a path 12' wide.
Jody


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

Jody you ever see it in real life?


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

No i seen it on TV last night on Mega Machines they don't use it that often only when the snow gets really high.
Jody


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## memmurphy (Sep 18, 2003)

Dad borrowed a video once that showed those train plows at work. I think the model train shops sell them or could order one. I sure would like to see one at work in person though.

Mark


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## amicks (Sep 16, 2003)

Sold a customer a Brand new 16 hp Snapper Tractor two weeks ago. He never mowed with it , just put in his garage, but he came in the store this week and traded for a 18 hp Snapper Tractor. These two tractors are idential except the engine, by the way he's mowing less than an acre, but he wanted more. I think the marketing hype is also fueled by the consumer. I personally know that you don't need those big engines but if it's what the customer wants then it's what the customer gets. I can remember when I first moved out from home and I had a 26" Snapper rider with a 5 hp engine. I loved it , it sure beat walking behind that LawnBoy for three hours. I moved and gave it to my new neighbor and he used it for as long as he lived. ( five years ) All I say is buy what you want and be happy with it. I don't sell JD's but if that's what you want, buy it. Life is too short not to be happy.


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

Tony,
what would be the best in your opinion, for the money, as far as smaller HP and inexpensive goes. Just for mowing. I mow 2acres and have a ton of trees to turn around.

Thanks


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## John *.?-!.* (Nov 20, 2003)

I admit I'm no expert, but it seems to me the way of rating small engine horsepower must have changed over the years 25 years aog I had a 15 horse, 48 inch Homelite (Simplicity). I now have a 4 year old 18 horse (2 cylinder), 46 inch White (MTD). I am mowing the same place now as I was then. The White doesn't handle as much of a load as the Homelite did, either when it comes to the ability to cover a lot of ground, or to handle heavy cutting. The white definitley doesn't have the lugging power the old Homelite had.


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## slipshod (Sep 19, 2003)

*637*

Simplicity 7 H.P still runs strong,mows and blows . Can run with the big dogs. Won't stay on the porch and just look pretty.


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## KevinJD325 (Sep 21, 2003)

Rusty-Nuts: The 18hp. machine that did the job, 12" of the white stuff and a 40x60' apron, 200x12' drive.


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

Kevin,
that is a real nice looking machine. I really like the way the weights attach to the backend and they seam to be right at axle level. How much weight you have on there? I use 100# wheel weights on my 16HP when plowing 50# each wheel. 
Also, does the spring trip much on the plow. I have one I have not put on my tractor yet, because I didn't think I really need it. I use the solid hitch plow.

Thanks Love the picture.


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## KevinJD325 (Sep 21, 2003)

Rusty-Nuts: 

I have 4 of the suitcase weights on the back, there's room for 5. I believe each weighs 40# for the total of 160#. Seems to be enough weight for the job. Liked the suitcase weights over the wheel weights because I can also use them on the front of the tractor if pulling a trailer, scrapper, tiller or whatever.

As for the springs, they work. I have the blade in the unlocked position in case I hit a rock or something, like I did yesterday. No matter how much snow you move, the blade "rarely" releases. Now when you hit a rock frozen to the ground, it's another story. Glad it released so I didn't get a ride over the hood!!


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## Michael (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rusty_Nuts _
> *Jody you ever see it in real life? *


When I was in the Air Force and stationed at Loring AFB, I had the job to keep those nice big snow throwers running (no fun) We had 21 of those da%$ things to keep in repair. The happiest day of my life was the day I was blessed with a assignment to Kunsan AB, Korea with a follow on assignment to Clark AB, Philippines. Those big snow throwers had on massive Cat engine in them and could throw snow 40-50 yards easily.:usa: :buzz:


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by amicks _
> * Life is too short not to be happy. *


That's it right there. If it makes you happy, it's right for you. I like old iron, becouse I like working on it. Some people can't stand it. If 27hp in a mower pushes your buttons, go for it. Thats one of the things that make this contry great. We get to chose to buy a new high powerd mower, OR keep an old frend running.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KevinJD325 _
> *Rusty-Nuts: The 18hp. machine that did the job, 12" of the white stuff and a 40x60' apron, 200x12' drive. *


 Only 18hp????  


I think a lot of us will agree, one of the best GT of all time has to the the old JD 318's. Well, that ONLY had a 18hp.


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## KevinJD325 (Sep 21, 2003)

My guess is that 14-16hp could probably have done the job. Though the 18hp. was very nice to use.


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

Hey all,
I asked about mowing because I am thinking, (thanks to some people here, and my wife) about getting something "NEW" or "NEWER" to mow my 2 acres with. I would like to buy something inexpensive though. I don't think I need 16, 18 or 20HP to mow the lawn, so any suggestions would be appriciated.



Thanks,


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rusty_Nuts _
> *Hey all,
> I asked about mowing because I am thinking, (thanks to some people here, and my wife) about getting something "NEW" or "NEWER" to mow my 2 acres with. I would like to buy something inexpensive though. I don't think I need 16, 18 or 20HP to mow the lawn, so any suggestions would be appriciated.
> Thanks, *


What horsepower would you deem adequate? Do they still make a riding mower smaller than 14 HP?


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Argee _
> *What horsepower would you deem adequate? Do they still make a riding mower smaller than 14 HP? *


Snapper does they make a 11HP a 12HP and a 13HP. Here is a link.
Jody

Snapper RER


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

There you have it Rusty Nuts. The Snapper RER is the machine for you.


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Argee _
> *What horsepower would you deem adequate? Do they still make a riding mower smaller than 14 HP? *


I thought someone here would know that, because I sure don't.
Doesn't have to be brand new just newer. 

Thanks for the link Jody I will check it out.

I think the key point here (or so I am told) is to find a sales man that will deal with an appinionated, hard headed old man.

mg:


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rusty_Nuts _
> *I thought someone here would know that, because I sure don't.
> Doesn't have to be brand new just newer.
> 
> ...


I have seen a lot of 15-16 hp tractors out there. Some eaven had a good sized deck. The Simp built MF I have been looking at for my Mom, I think had a 16hp motor, and a 44" deck. I know I would not need any more for mowing chores.


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## Michael (Sep 16, 2003)

I long ago quit looking at horse power and looked at what I want the tractor to do and the size of the yard. A lot of what you want to do is dependent on what you want the tractor to perform. Say you have only a acre or so and its fairly level with not many flower beds and trees, a John Deere LT-series or god forbide a L-series would be fine. Alot of money is wasted by some folks who way over buy. That is not to say they may in the future decide that to really use the excess capacity but you never know. For instance I have a John Deere L-120 and a beat up old 14 HP Murray garden tractor that is 20 years old that has a bunch of attachments (tiller, plow, snow thrower and mold board plow). The L-120 is used just for mowing and the Murray is used in the garden and arownd the property for the heavy hauling. It all depends.:flamedevi :skullmad:


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

I have my 25HP and I feel it is tremendous overkill especially considering that with my big tractors, I will probably use it exclusively for cutting lawn and heavy, thick pasture grass. If I didn't use it in the fields to occassionally cut the tall, thick stuff, I would gotten no more than my past 19HP which was probably only putting out (due to age/wear) around 16-18HP.

Go figure, but it NEVER EVER bogs down I can tell you that!!! Can't say that for my older 96 Briggs 19HP Twin engine setup.

Andy


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## slipshod (Sep 19, 2003)

*why feel guilty*

there is nothing wrong with overkill when you bought your GT.
It is more then just a machine you use to mow the lawn,or why then do we have this very site.We all love the machinery and being practical is sometimes not a viable option when you add in the toy factor!:driving:


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: why feel guilty*



> _Originally posted by slipshod _
> *there is nothing wrong with overkill when you bought your GT.
> It is more then just a machine you use to mow the lawn,or why then do we have this very site.We all love the machinery and being practical is sometimes not a viable option when you ad in the toy factor!:driving: *


Thats it in a nut shell. We like them, so we buy them. No reaison I NEED 5 tractors, I just want them.


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## slipshod (Sep 19, 2003)

*same reason*

That I have 325 H.P. in my 1988 chevy 4x4.It just feels right.


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

*Re: why feel guilty*



> _Originally posted by slipshod _
> *there is nothing wrong with overkill when you bought your GT.
> It is more then just a machine you use to mow the lawn,or why then do we have this very site.We all love the machinery and being practical is sometimes not a viable option when you add in the toy factor!:driving: *


It is not so much guilt as it is just thinking about the reality of it now. Feel like I could have saved about $1200 maybe but in the end I think it is ONE HECKA GT and I am really glad to have it. So, I am not guilty, just kinda feel like too much HP for what I need -- but who knows ---- it might come in handy someday. 

My little beast:
<center><img width=640 height=480 src=http://www.tractorforum.com/pics/gt5000.jpg></center>


Andy


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

*I like my*

15 HP Kaw and to me it makes a heck of a deferents over my 8 HP Snapper. Where the Snapper would bog the Cub goes right though.
Jody

<img src=http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=3f9d1341-3de2-61e9-4d9d-125920925336&size=>


<img src=http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=4dec176a-35cf-4f14-32f7-559bae797e70&size=>


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## MowHoward2210 (Nov 2, 2003)

*Re: I like my*

_Originally posted by jodyand _

15 HP Kaw and to me it makes a heck of a deferents over my 8 HP Snapper. Where the Snapper would bog the Cub goes right though.
Jody

Wonder which one of those fine mowers pops the best wheelys??? :truth:


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Re: I like my*



> _Originally posted by MowHoward2210 _
> *
> 
> 
> ...


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

Well I always try to think practical, but seams that tractors are as much a hobby as they are a tool.
You guys make a lot of sense out of all of this. GET WHAT YOU WANT AND BE HAPPY WITH IT.
I also have 5 tractors, tool, and toys, but have decided to buy one primarily for mowing only.
So I went to Sears, they have a LT1000 for $869. Mulching kit included. After looking a bit, seams like a real good price to me. Last years model and only one left. Maybe I should ask this in the Craftsman section, but what do you guys think of the LT1000.
Pros and cons. Oh it is 17.5 HP with 42'' deck and 18'' turning radius.
Jody thanks just not into the rear engine things. I did almost grab a Wonder-Boy at an auction though for $40.


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## slipshod (Sep 19, 2003)

*nuts*

Grab the brass ring !!! You know you want that tractor,and life is too short not to spoil yourself once in a while.Besides it is the only one left.You will be kicking yourself if you let it get away,the price is right.:thumbsup:


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

*Yea go for it*

you might even be able to talk them down some more to being it last years.
Jody


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## Rusty_Nuts (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Yea go for it*



> _Originally posted by jodyand _
> *you might even be able to talk them down some more to being it last years.
> Jody *


Jody, that is talked down some the sales tag says $949, and if I apply for a credit card they would take it down to $869 12 months no interest.

Really is it a good deal? I checked the Briggs engines like this IC one I am not familure with but dang things sell for $500, just the engine.
Thanks guys my go back tomorrow.


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

I think it is didn't know you had already got them down. Sounds like a good deal with a 42" cut.
Jody


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## hulkmag (Apr 2, 2004)

I have a 14hp Deutz Allis that can cut circles around my 14hp Yard Machine.When the Yard Machine is bogging down the Deutz just keeps on humming threw.Of course you are comparing Kohler and B&S.So is it old versus new or brand versus brand???????????Don't know that just know which one i mow with.:winky:


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hulkmag _
> *Of course you are comparing Kohler and B&S.So is it old versus new or brand versus brand???????????Don't know that just know which one i mow with.:winky: *


You just cant beat them old Kohler's they are a mule 
Jody


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## farmallmaniac (Feb 16, 2004)

Rusty did u get it?


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## Fusion1970 (Feb 23, 2004)

Interesting thread. I too think it boils down to "need" and "want". Do you need 400 HP in a 90" wheelbase car? No. Do you want it? Quite possibly. Carrol Shelby once said "Too much horesepower is just enough". 

I also find the HP rating interesting. My grandpa had an old small tractor which I cannot remember the brand. All I remember was that it had a chrome T-handle for the throttle, and the seat was a huge piece of metal with holes all over it mounted on spring steel. It would go through about anything, and although I'm not positive, I bet it was probably close to half of what many tractors are rated at now. 

All I know is that my previous tractor had 12 HP, and didn't have any problems cutting the grass...the tractor has many problems, but no problems were related to lack of power. My new tractor is 15 HP, and although seemingly small to alot of LT's, surely will do the job on my flat yard. 

I already have somewhat of an opinion on the 1525, but it will be put to the test later today as far as mowing is concerned. I could wait til next weekend actually, but forecast says rain all next week. I'm not waiting another two weeks! 

Greg


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## Gromulus (Sep 16, 2003)

*Depends*

I think the primary advantage of a larger engine/higher HP is driving the larger three-spindle decks.

I have a Deere GT225 with a 15HP Kohler and am perfectly satisified with it in combination with my Freedom 42" mulching deck. It has no problem cutting and mulching. if I needed a larger deck (4 8 - 54") than I would have opted for the GT235. It's the same tractor with an 18HP V-twin. I gave the dealer every opportunity to talk me into the GT235 but he insisted that the 15Hp was a good match to the 42" two-spindle deck. At the time the 235 would have been a $900 premium in my case. Not worth it in my case. Some will argue that the V-twins are quieter, but that's a moot point once the deck is engaged.

I also use my GT to pull a 17 cu. ft cart. aerator, spreader, and dethatcher. all up and downm hills. Never any problem. I have also use the past four winters with a front blade. With chains and rear weights it has always been up to the task. The larger HP engine would have provided negligible (if any) improvements in towing and plowing. (The transaxle, steering components, and frame strength are more important for these uses)

If you have a large area to mow and need a larger deck than go for the larger HP engine. Just don't get the bigger engine at the expense of quality and deurability features that you may also need if you are running over rough terrain or use it for other purposes.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rusty_Nuts _
> *Argee got me thinking. HUM imagine that.
> I know most everyones mind is geared towards snow removal this time of year, but just wondering why most people seem to be buying such large engine tractors to mow with.
> 
> ...


I have a John Deere F525 which is powered by a Kawasaki 17 hp. engine that runs a 48" mower and a 4410 which is powered by a Yanmar 35 hp. 3 cylinder diesel which drives a with a 72" MMM. The 4410 has 29 pto hp. With both machines, they use every bit of the hp on tap in heavier grass cutting. I could actually use a bit more hp. on the F525.


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## Rodster (Sep 26, 2003)

Hi
I wonder why years ago an 8 HP twin blade 36 or 38 inch cut
did the same job just as good as my 38 inch twin blade with 15.5 HP does today. I know the hydro takes a little more power but not almost twice the power.
Rodster:flowersmi


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## memmurphy (Sep 18, 2003)

My Jacobsen had 8HP with 34" deck and 3 speed tranny. My current Deere 15HP with 38" deck and Hydro cuts heavy spring time grass cleaner. I think the blade speed is higher which would require more HP to maintain. Also I use a mulch kit which would use more HP. The Jake would leave clumps of grass where the Deere looks almost like I bagged it under the same conditions. A lot of that probably has to do with the deck design, but I doubt the 8HP could handle the load this deck would put on it to get the better results. 

Mark


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rodster _
> *Hi
> I wonder why years ago an 8 HP twin blade 36 or 38 inch cut
> did the same job just as good as my 38 inch twin blade with 15.5 HP does today. I know the hydro takes a little more power but not almost twice the power.
> Rodster:flowersmi *



My feeling is that they are just rating the power diferent. My Mom's old JD112 with a 10hpKohler has no problem at all with a 3 blade 42" deck. 

My 444 with a 14hp Kohler running a 48" deck mows the thick, hevy stuff fine. The ONLY time I could have used a little more power, was mowing 2'+ grass, running my hydro powerd bagger, up a steep hill. And this was with an untuned motor, with as I found out later a head gasket leak. Kant wait to see how she works with the fixed motor.

I STILL feel it is a marketing thing. A lot of people feel if there frend has 15hp, they need 20 becouse it's "better"


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## Kevin Beitz (Sep 17, 2003)

This old 4 hp tractor with 2 bladed deck did a fine job for 20 years... Now its resting but ready to go...
<img src=http://user.pa.net/~kbeitz/Kevin/Tractor%20pictures/duels.JPG>


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