# Getting WW fluid into the rear wheels - help



## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

OK, last night I re-wrote the book on vulgarity.

I pulled a wheel off my DGT6K, let all the air out, and am ready to dump 6 jugs of WW fluid per wheel.

The problem is, I cannot break the bead on the tire. (I managed to do it fairly easily on my LTX1000). I jumped, I crow barred, I even ran it over with my station wagon. I cannot break the bead.

So, 2 questions ...

1. Is there a secret way to break the bead on a tire? I don't wanna have to haul it into a shop so they can charge me an arm and a leg.
2. Is there a way to pump in the fluid through the valve? Again, I'm not looking to spend a lot of dough to buy and obscure part I will only use once. I have a pump that I am thinking of hooking up to a valve like the kind you find on a can of 'spare tire in can' stuff. Will this work?

thanks
SnowMower
(sorry if this topic has been covered, I didn't see it in any old posts)


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## aegt5000 (Feb 22, 2004)

snowmower…

I have filled 2 sets (4 tires) 26x12x12 of lug tires with 50% / 50%
antifreeze / water using a portable air tank. (the kind of tank you fill
with air, then take it to the tire your filling) The tank looks like it’s
about 5 gallons. It has a drain plug, a hose for filling a tire and a valve
stem to connect an air compressor hose to so you can pressurize the
holding tank. I saw this posted a while ago and tried it, it works.


First, remover the tire from the tractor.
Remove the valve stem guts from the tires valve stem.
Put 1 gallon of liquid in the tank. (through the drain plug), replace the plug.
Connect the hose from the tank to the valve stem on the tire.
Turn the tank up-side-down so the liquid is at the hose outlet
Slightly pressurize the tank (7-8 psi max) using your air compressor.

The air pressure above the liquid in the tank will push the liquid through
the hose and into the tire. You will hear when the tank is empty of liquid
because the sound changes. (like drawing thru a straw when the glass is empty)

Remove the hose from the tire valve and allow any air pressure out of the tire.
Refill the tank with another gallon of liquid and keep repeating until the
Tire is about 75-80% filled with liquid. 
Replace the tire valve stem guts and fill the tire with air to the correct pressure.


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Thanks AEGT5000. I'm afraid I don't have one of those portable air tank, so I don't want to spend the cash. So ...

You know the saying, time is money. Well, I have a lot more time than money. I managed to squeeze 6 WW fluid jugs per wheel last night. It only took me about 3 hours.

Here is what I did. I have a fluid pump, the type used for changing the lower unit oil in my outboard.









I bought one of those "spare tire in a can" thingies and pulled the hose of since it had the proper attachment to connect the valve. I emptied the tires completely of air, then pumped in a jug. After each jug, I would let out anymore air pressure that built up. 

So, if it is a poor man's pump you need, I think I have found a working (albeit slow) solution.

SnowMower

http://image.basspro.com/images/images2/74500/74753.jpg


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## 911radioman (Jan 18, 2005)

This is really resurrecting a dead thread, but did you guys put fluid in your tires with or without tubes?

I'm thinking of going the fluid route, but right now my tires are tubeless and wondered if I'd have to break the tire down and put tubes in it first...


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## Greg (Sep 16, 2003)

Tom,

Good threads are never dead...the just slip into the archive abyss... 

Thanks for bringing this back up...I learned something I can use to inexpensively solve a traction problem I've got.


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## Ernie (Mar 18, 2004)

<img src=http://image.basspro.com/images/images2/74500/74753.jpg>


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## Ernie (Mar 18, 2004)

> _Originally posted by 911radioman _
> *This is really resurrecting a dead thread, but did you guys put fluid in your tires with or without tubes?
> 
> I'm thinking of going the fluid route, but right now my tires are tubeless and wondered if I'd have to break the tire down and put tubes in it first... *



911 I run fluids in tubless tires....to put tubes in would be cost prohibitive and time wasting. We used the method aegt5k used and it went very smoothly...


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## 911radioman (Jan 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ernieg _
> *911 I run fluids in tubless tires....to put tubes in would be cost prohibitive and time wasting. We used the method aegt5k used and it went very smoothly... *


Thanks, Ernie. I think I can get hold of one of those portable air tanks and give it a whirl.

So what would be a better fluid to add? Washer fluid? Anti-freeze/water mix? I *know* I don't want anything to do with calcium chloride. I'd like to keep my wheels for more than a year!


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

911,

Ive been thinking this one myself. WW fluid is flamable. REAL flamable. Granted, probably safe in this use, but I still have my reserves. Normal antifreeze is deadly to anything that drinks it, if it leaks. OK you would have to have a leak, but you get my point. Now my idea was finding some RV type antifreeze. Just seems safer to me. Granted, when I do do my wheels, I assume I will just use what I find on sale.


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## 911radioman (Jan 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ingersoll444 _
> *911,
> 
> Ive been thinking this one myself. WW fluid is flamable. REAL flamable. Granted, probably safe in this use, but I still have my reserves. Normal antifreeze is deadly to anything that drinks it, if it leaks. OK you would have to have a leak, but you get my point. Now my idea was finding some RV type antifreeze. Just seems safer to me. Granted, when I do do my wheels, I assume I will just use what I find on sale. *


I'm really torn as to whether or not I want to do this or not. I was just doing a Google search for "fluid in tires" and I read one article stating that there have been instances of sheared axles in Garden Tractors with hydros (mine is a hydro) due to the sudden and sharp change of direction from forward to reverse and the fluid suddenly going from one direction to another.

So... I don't really know what I'll do. I put 4-55# rear wheel weights on it yesterday (I'll either remove them or go down to only 2 after plowing my garden), and that will probably be all I'll ever need.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

I would think the 4 weights would be enough for you. Normaly when you go to fluid fill, its eather becouse you have some issue that needs more then that, or just becouse its cheeper then the wheel weights. I would try the wheel weights and see how it goes. In my case I want the weight in the FRONT wheels. I have made front wheel weights, but need more to off set heavy rear mounted attachments.


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

> WW fluid is flamable. REAL flamable.


It's flamable??!!mg: I honestly did not know that.
So much for smoking during my WWF refill.:smoking: 

Don't have any real opinion about what to stick in your tire, except to say the WWF has worked excellently for me. And it's cheap (like me).

Good luck RadioMan! Let us know how it ends.

SnowMower


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## CatDaddy (May 30, 2004)

I don't think the standard blue stuff is flammable. It's mostly water with solvents (& dye) in it.


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

I have CaCl in my larger machine, but not without tubes ! 

I would not temp fate and have a highly corrosive chemical resting on bare metal....IMO

RimGuard would be my first choice, if I knew about it at the time...

Same weight characteristics without the toxicity....

Keweenaw4310, rims are expensive for your machine dont know
how much exactly but I wouldnt be surprise if its considerably higher than $1000.....just a guess however

I think once winter is over, I would re-address your tires again
and maybe go with Rim guard or CaCl with tubes....to give yourself a chance  

Duc


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WW fluid is flamable. REAL flamable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's the biggest bunch of hogwash I've ever heard...they also say it removes paint.....*N O T*

These are myths.


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## ducati996 (Dec 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Argee _
> *quote:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WW fluid is flamable. REAL flamable.
> ...



I used to think my farts werent flammable, but I found out the hard way mg: :furious: :homereat: 

I haven't tried to ignite WW fluid, so i cant comment

Ducati


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## Styx (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Argee _
> *quote:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WW fluid is flamable. REAL flamable.
> ...




Well I just checked the jug of WW fluid(Super Tech/Wal-Mart) and it says "Keep away from open flames". I poured alittle on the driveway to see if I could get it to light. Nothing! Myth busted.


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## Ernie (Mar 18, 2004)

Myth Busters, brought to you by your friendly neighborhood tractor forum:lmao:


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## P2E2F (Jul 30, 2004)

I went through te whole exercise....

A second set of rims for $9, refinished in the correct color.

Inner tubes. 

Mounted AG tires 20x10x8 - 4 ply (super stiff) .... at home, with some worn out out screw drivers, some dish soap. 
Some gentle persuation. 
No damage to tire or anything, take the time, work tire bead an inch at a time, I stood on the tire as it is goes into the rim... and 'pops' .. it's in!

Also used "aegt5000's" method more or less, having not read this thread first before doing it, I think I did allright.

Used 12 gallons total, WW 80% rest water. I was not aware of other products available, plus ww is cheap.

Overall weight for each wheel+tire+tube+WW = 71 Lbs, used a bathroom scale to ensure same weight. 

Have not tried it on snow to see what kind of traction this gives.


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

Welcome P2E2F:friends: Glad you got it all done and you have the self satisfaction of knowing you did it yourself I know its not a easy task to change tires. But it don't sound like you had to much trouble putting the WW fluid in.


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## case644 (Nov 30, 2004)

All,
To reiterate a point from earlier, having fluid in the tires seems like a bad idea. If I remember my physics right, the inertia of the fluid moving in one direction then suddenly changing direction, ie forward into reverse, seems as though it would put an undue strain on the axles and gears. All the weight and pressure would move forward aginst the reverse rotaion. A solid like CaCl would seem like the better albeit costlier way to go as a solid won't have the forward or reverse inertia that a fluid would just based on density. Just my thoughts. 

Bob


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## 911radioman (Jan 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by case644 _
> *All,
> To reiterate a point from earlier, having fluid in the tires seems like a bad idea. If I remember my physics right, the inertia of the fluid moving in one direction then suddenly changing direction, ie forward into reverse, seems as though it would put an undue strain on the axles and gears. All the weight and pressure would move forward aginst the reverse rotaion. A solid like CaCl would seem like the better albeit costlier way to go as a solid won't have the forward or reverse inertia that a fluid would just based on density. Just my thoughts.
> 
> Bob *


Calcium chloride is not a solid. Case in point... I have an International 684 tractor that is leaking fluid out of one of the rear wheels right now. It may exist in a solid, but they pump that stuff into the tires the same as any other fluid.


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## P2E2F (Jul 30, 2004)

Thanks Jody for the welcome.
No doubt, doing things oneself does give some satisfaction, specially when it goes well.

Case644, the tire is nealy full, I suspect 80+% of the volume, I tried to verify what you sate by hand... since I have not yet installed on the LT, the sloshing can be heard, but continued inertia factor is really nill, it just feels like a heavy wheel, or one with steel weights.
again, I have 20 x 8" tires, It might be an issue on huge tires? 

I understand your concern, I believe there are more risks to tranny, axles, etc, by simply and rapidly shifting from one direction to another regardless of set up. My new machine being a hydro, the driver can change directions even faster, I don't do it, now I'll need to be even more carefull.

Why... I think having more traction is really the cause of something breaking as you mentioned, without extra weights, liquid, bolt on, extra heavy operators, etc. Tire slippage takes care of saving tranny internals from sudden directional changes. 

BUT With extra grip, something has got to give, no different than putting sticky slicks on drag cars and not beefing up U joints....etc...

...but my old $10 MTD tractor with a 3F/1R speed gear manual, used now for horsing around, rapidly shifting can in fact cause some neat wheelies.

and all that's powering it is an old 3.5 hp motor out of a push mower (curb side special), the original 10 horse trew a rod.
So far that tranny has survived tons of abuse.
cruisin


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

The easiest way to fill the GT tires is to break the bead on one side, then flood with WW solvent and then refill with air...takes about 7 - 8 gallons per tire and about 15 minutes


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## 911radioman (Jan 18, 2005)

Will the WW fluid degrade the rims over time? Just curious...


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by 911radioman _
> *Will the WW fluid degrade the rims over time? Just curious... *


I don't believe so...it's water and methyl alcohol.


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## catmando (Dec 18, 2004)

*Extra Weight*

I always filled mine the hard way. A hand pump. Take top off, and fill. Then put top on and push the handle down.

The WWW fluid might be something that releases something unhealthy when exposed to flame too. 

MR. UP 

I think that the calcium chloride needs oxygen to cause the corrosion. If you would finish filling the tires with nitrogen, or CO2 it should keep the corrosion to a minimum. 

The reason I say this is because we had absorbtion chillers at the place I worked. The active ingredient was lithium bromide. Bromine is in the chlorine family. The company that maintained the chillers were very careful to keep all air/oxygen out of the units.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: Extra Weight*



> _Originally posted by catmando _
> *I always filled mine the hard way. A hand pump. Take top off, and fill. Then put top on and push the handle down.
> 
> *



I never thought of that. Thats a great idea! OK a little slow maybe, but when you are filling a tubed tire, and have the pump, whay not. Thanks for the tip. I may do the fronts on my 224 this weekend.


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## P2E2F (Jul 30, 2004)

*Traction is poor...*

Earlier in the thread, I made mention of my new AGs Super lugs , rims , tubes and WW. 

Well... tried the tractor alone (don't have a plow yet javascript:smilie('')
WHAAAA! )

And the traction was poor, ... went for a drive in my backyard, and snow is between 12" to 24" in places. 

Not having a locking diff, it was real tough and very slow going, but made it the end of the yard and back to the garage 600'. These tires sure dug their way right to the grass.

The small front tires were acting more like little snow plows, poor little guys being buried into the snow, were not even spinning at times.

But .. the engine exhsaust helped blow some of the snow ahead.

The bottom of the tractor/transmission left an indentention trail in the snow, I guess this is good as it helps to keep the oil cool  

Traction was totally nill near the garage, when i got to a section with ice under the snow, forget it, had to get the shovel out.

Overall, this is tractor certainly does not match a monster truck, or a 4x4, snow mobile....

I wonder if I can seriously consider using a snow blade with it. 

Surely need to put more weight out the back, suitcases, or make a cement box or something.


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## catmando (Dec 18, 2004)

P2E2F, Welcome aboard.
You will find that when you get your snow blade that the tractor will go through snow better. 

I have a 16 hp MTD with a small FEL on it. Tires are front = 16 X 6.5 X 8 rear 27 X 8.5 X 15 industrial tires. It struggles to go through 8" of snow. If I put the loader down so that it pushes the snow out of the way it will go through the snow much easier. It doesn't have to move the snow out of the way with the tires. A snow plow blade works better that the loader does too. It will push the snow off to one side.


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## Argee (Sep 17, 2003)

A late welcome to you P2E2F. When you get into deep snow with 2 wheel, limited slip drive, it doesn't matter what tires you have on in deep snow...even chains won't help there...the tires will shine in softer soils...After all they are *Ag* tires, designed for an agricultural application....I put a mud and snow tread on mine and I have been able to blow snow most of the winter without the aid of chains...once the ice got underneath...forget it..it sits there and spins...I've been cleaning the drive out lately with my 4WD loader and there are times that all 4 tires are spinning and it is slow going....ice just sucks for any thing but chains.


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## CatDaddy (May 30, 2004)

Rusting, or more properly - oxidation, _requires_ oxygen - whether as air, CO2, or H2O. Other types of corrosion can occur, but that would be a chemical reduction process, such as with an acid or by 'reaction' as with bi-metallic corrosion - IIRC.

-=A=-


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