# Frost plug/block heater



## jordluvsash (Oct 15, 2021)

Looking to install a block heater in my 1987 Ford 1910 compact tractor. There are two Frost plugs on engine block... One just above starter on left side... And one just behind fuel filter bracket on right side. Does anyone know which plug is best to remove to install heater? Or will either plug work?
Thank you!


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Good Morning jordluvsash, welcome to the forum.

Attached below is information regarding a block heater for a Ford 1910 tractor. Apparently, either plug hole will do, so choose the easiest one to get to. You can probably find aftermarket heaters for half price. Your choice. 

New Holland 1910 - 3 CYL COMPACT TRACTOR(08/83 - 12/86) Parts Diagrams


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

BigT said:


> Good Morning jordluvsash, welcome to the forum.
> 
> Attached below is information regarding a block heater for a Ford 1910 tractor. Apparently, either plug hole will do, so choose the easiest one to get to. You can probably find aftermarket heaters for half price. Your choice.
> 
> New Holland 1910 - 3 CYL COMPACT TRACTOR(08/83 - 12/86) Parts Diagrams


Not a big fan of freeze plug block heaters. Don't really need them down here in MS, but I lived in the mountains of Colorado, a lot of guys just used Kat's heated dipsticks in the snowblowers and even small tractors. There about $20 and you know for sure where they go. They have run 4" deep in the oil and they're 24" long, but you can trim them down with a cut-off wheel, so installation time is about 5 minutes

Kat's Heated Dipstick


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

I much prefer block heaters the little dip stick heaters can't put enough heat oit to heat a 3 or 4 cylinder engine.
As far as which frost plug to pull I would use the one that was the closest to centering between cylinders.
If it lines up with the center of the cylinder that will be the point that the water jacket is the shallowest, between the cylinders you have more water jacket and less chance of the block heater making contact with the block which will burn it out.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

How about the ones I've seen that go on the bottom of the oil pan, think they are magnetic? Myself, I've never used one but I've seen them before for sale?


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## LouNY (Dec 15, 2016)

I use some stick on ones on the oil pan and the transmission case or rather I used to untill they got tore off this summer.
I had forgotten all about them, I'll have to get some more looked up and sent to me.
I use the block heater from about 30 F on down and usually I had them all plugged into one connector.
Had about 1600 watts of heat going into the tractor.
It is amazing what difference just a few degrees will make to the power shuttle and hydraulics.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

SidecarFlip said:


> How about the ones I've seen that go on the bottom of the oil pan, think they are magnetic? Myself, I've never used one but I've seen them before for sale?


I guess it depends on where you live. Used the dipstick heaters at -30 in Colorado never had a problem. You Yankees are ones that need this stuff..... 

If I need to heat the coolant, or oil, in a vehicle to get it started in the morning and I can't use a Bic lighter, I just go back in the house. I then drop a little of my "personal antifreeze" (Bullit Bourbon) in a cup of coffee and wait for the sun to do it's thing.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Bob Driver said:


> (Bullit Bourbon) in a cup of coffee and wait for the sun to do it's thing.


That sounds like the farmer down the road. When I was working, I'd stop in for a cup of Joe on the way and he and the 'boys' would be sitting around the table at 7am with their coffee and a bottle of Captain Morgan spiced rum. Cannot say I ever saw him straight actually. He died when he fell off the platform on his JD combine on his head and his kids found him in the field, stiff as a board.

We have a couple farmers around here that are always at some degree of being drunk. Guess it comes with the profession.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

LouNY said:


> I use some stick on ones on the oil pan and the transmission case or rather I used to untill they got tore off this summer.
> I had forgotten all about them, I'll have to get some more looked up and sent to me.
> I use the block heater from about 30 F on down and usually I had them all plugged into one connector.
> Had about 1600 watts of heat going into the tractor.
> It is amazing what difference just a few degrees will make to the power shuttle and hydraulics.


Absolutely. Both my Kubota's will start no matter how cold it is here (good glo plugs, charged up starting batteries and winterized diesel) but I'll let them warm up for 15 minutes or so just above idle before I even attempt to move them as the fluid is thick and sluggish.

I have a penchant for changing out starting batteries ever 5 years anyway and I always install the largest batteries I can physically fit in the battery tray and the highest CCA I can get.

Flooded cell starting batteries don't really fail in the winter. The fail from the heat of summer but you don't notice it because the starting amps are much less in warm weather. When you need maximum CCA in the winter to crank a cold motor, they cannot deliver it because they got cooked in the summer.


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## Tx Jim (Jul 28, 2020)

SidecarFlip said:


> Flooded cell starting batteries don't really fail in the winter. The fail from the heat of summer but you don't notice it because the starting amps are much less in warm weather. When you need maximum CCA in the winter to crank a cold motor, they cannot deliver it because they got cooked in the summer.


I disagree with you because colder ambient temperature lowers battery performance/capacity. Cranking amps are more on any battery in Summer temps than cold Winter temps. 

Although I've never operated my tractors in cold enough temps to warrant a heater I think block coolant heaters are superior to other type heaters. Tractor manufacturers must agree because that's the majority of the type cold starting aid they offer. Back in the mid 1960's JD offered an engine oil heater for a brief period of time.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

I agree cold temps lower the CCA any flooded cell battery can deliver, no issue, but it's heat that accelerates plate sulfation and it's the lead plates shedding lead sulfide that causes a flooded cell battery to fail and as the plates shed, their capacity to retain electrons gets lower and cold temps put the largest strain (current withdraw) on a flooded cell battery. Summertime starts require a lit less CCA that a winter start.

Why, when I buy new starting batteries, I always buy them from a volume dealer and I look to see if the top is dusty or not. A dusty top indicates the batter has been sitting for a while and all wet charged (electrolyte added at the factory) batteries begin their useful life when the electrolyte is added. Once a battery is wet charged, the chemical reaction starts and just because you buy it and think it's new, it's not. That is also why internally, the plates are suspended off the bottom of the case a bit. That is so the lead sulfate can accumulate in the bottom without contacting the plates and shorting them out, which renders the battery unable to take a charge, IOW, it's shot.

The major cause of battery failure is the plates shorting out. Just bought a new starting battery for my gas driven Lincoln welder from TSC. I carefully looked in the battery rack for the newest one (which will typically be in the back) and took the one with no dust on the top.

I always 'top off' any new battery by trickle charging it before installing it as well. Flooded cell batteries will all loose charge as they sit waiting for you to purchase it so I always bring them to 100% charge before installing.

Finally, I have disconnect switches on my tractor batteries that isolate the batteries from the tractor so when they sit for a prolonged time, the batteries aren't subject to any parasitic current withdraw which especially holds true for an ECM controlled diesel as the ECM will always use a tiny amount of current. Mine are mechanical so that isn't an issue but with the new T4 units it is. The disconnects are more of a theft and mischief deterrent for me as I leave my tractors in the field at times and some of my fields aren't near the farm.

So I agree but for different reasons and I tend to renew my starting batteries every 5 years anyway. I don't need a 'no start issue when I need them and of course I keep the terminals clean and coated with di-electric grease and all the connections like the chassis ground are clean and bright and I use internal toothed lockwashers on them because the lockwashers 'bite' into the cable end and whatever they are attached to.

I keep tenders on my vehicles if they aren't regularly driven just as a precaution.


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## Tx Jim (Jul 28, 2020)

I think chart I posted doesn't totally agree with your statements. 
My 3 hay cutting/raking/baling tractors batteries sit unattached to trickle chargers all Winter/Spring season because of no electricity at barn. In the last several yrs they have started at the beginning of hay season with no jump start required.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Gonna be big changes in common battery technology with the push for EV's. "Cold starting" is going to be less and less of a problem. Gel and AGM batteries are already a game changer on motorcyles and ATV's. Acid Batteries will be antique in 5 years... 800-900A batteries will be $300, but they'll probably last twice as long.

Ran "battery blankets" and 3000w recirculating heaters on HD trucks and equipment in Summit County CO..... -25 to -30 was pretty much normal over night temperatures. These were garbage trucks and landfill equipment, to big to park inside, and they had to run every day.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Tx Jim said:


> I think chart I posted doesn't totally agree with your statements.
> My 3 hay cutting/raking/baling tractors batteries sit unattached to trickle chargers all Winter/Spring season because of no electricity at barn. In the last several yrs they have started at the beginning of hay season with no jump start required.


My barn has no electricity either. Hence, no block heaters. The tractor shop does but I don't keep them in there as a rule.

I don't do 'charts' with batteries, I do seat of the pants only and prior experience. To me, charts are like political polls. You can extrapolate the data any way you want to depending on what you want.

I bet it gets a lot colder here than in Texas anyway. We can see below zero temps for weeks on end in the dead of winter.

Not looking forward to it 'dead of winter' anyway.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

Bob Driver said:


> Gonna be big changes in common battery technology with the push for EV's. "Cold starting" is going to be less and less of a problem. Gel and AGM batteries are already a game changer on motorcyles and ATV's. Acid Batteries will be antique in 5 years... 800-900A batteries will be $300, but they'll probably last twice as long.
> 
> Ran "battery blankets" and 3000w recirculating heaters on HD trucks and equipment in Summit County CO..... -25 to -30 was pretty much normal over night temperatures. These were garbage trucks and landfill equipment, to big to park inside, and they had to run every day.


When I drove a 'big truck' prior to retirement, all of them were hot lined in the yard every night. Sure am glad I wasn't paying the electric bill for 30+ trucks at 1500 watts a click.

I put a Hawker battery in my 650 KLR a couple years ago. Expensive but totally sealed and it's just peachy. Like the hawker because the position of it is not revalent, You can even run them upside down if you want to. I looked at the new to the market Lithium oxide batteries for the RV, but the expense is prohibitive so the flooded cell deep cycle batteries will remain. My roof mounted solar array keeps them topped off and when it's inside during the winter, the RV has a shore power plug just for the batteries.

As an aside, I've had zero luck with Optima's. I'll never buy one again. Had a pair in my diesel pickup that lasted maybe 2 years. I have Interstate flooded cell Group 31's now and yes on a battery tender though I use Yuhasa tenders because I happen to sell them.

I'll never own an EV anything. Not interested.


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## Tx Jim (Jul 28, 2020)

SidecarFlip said:


> My barn has no electricity either. Hence, no block heaters. The tractor shop does but I don't keep them in there as a rule.
> 
> I don't do 'charts' with batteries, I do seat of the pants only and prior experience. To me, charts are like political polls. You can extrapolate the data any way you want to depending on what you want.
> 
> ...


Seat of the pants is good until one makes incorrect statements that can be only be verified by a ""seat of the pants smoke screen""!!!!! I'm not extrapolating any data FYI facts are facts & at 76 yrs of age & driving/repairing tractors for close to 70 yrs I have a lot of ""seat of the pants experience"" myself!. I'm positive it gets colder where you live than in Texas but cold is cold no matter of one's zip code!!


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

In as much as I'm older that you, I imagine I have a bit more seat of the pants experience and I did not make false statements. The statements I made were from personal experience. I don't do charts. Charts do nothing for a no start situation.

Forums are about opinions, garnered from real life experiences and my are most likely different than yours. I'll leave it at that.


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## Tx Jim (Jul 28, 2020)

What makes you think you have more seat of the pants experience than I do. YOU have idea how many hrs experience I had driving a tractor nor do I how many you claim to have driven. My '91 JD 4255 hour meter is approaching 12,000 hrs of use. I own or previously owned other tractors plus demonstrated tractors at a JD dealership for 15+ yrs before I began custom farming business. I drove a tractor many hrs in my youth while I was living with my parents. 

Oh well keep believing your opinions & I will certainly continue to believe my opinion.


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

You do have more seat time that I do. of course having over 10 Kubota's I'm sure I acquired more than what the meters say...lol

Far as batteries are concerned, you do your thing and I'll do mine. Like I said before and will maintain, what works for me may not work for you and I'm not about to get into a pissing match over it.

Not worth my time, or yours.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Opinions are just that, neither right nor wrong. We may not always agree with others opinions, but they are out there for folks to make up their own minds on which direction to take to solve the issue that they have presented here on the forum. Like block heaters for instance.
I have a frost plug style block heater and it works great, I plug in the tractor an hour or so before I need it and have a listen by the hood.... you can hear it start to heat up.... a bit of sizzle. I'm uncomfortable starting a really cold engine without a bit of heat to warm up the oil a bit.

I've also used the magnetic heaters on on engine blocks and hydraulic tanks to get equipment warmed up prior to starting when working in the arctic. At minus 60* ( and I assure you the temperature gets colder every time I mention this scenario) we sometimes used army surplus parachutes to cover the gear and shove a Herman Nelson heater duct under it tp warm gear as well. That was the best way.

So how's that for an opinion? LOL It worked for me! Sorry, I almost went off topic there!?!

Has anyone tried one of this in-line circulating coolant heaters. Seems they'd be great to fire up an hour or two before starting.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Bob, I think if I tried the Bourbon method, after the second cup of coffee, I wouldn't care if the tractor starts or not! Wouldn't need it anymore!


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

SidecarFlip said:


> You do have more seat time that I do. of course having over 10 Kubota's I'm sure I acquired more than what the meters say...lol
> 
> Far as batteries are concerned, you do your thing and I'll do mine. Like I said before and will maintain, what works for me may not work for you and I'm not about to get into a pissing match over it.
> 
> Not worth my time, or yours.


Damn it Sidecar.... You sure rub people the wrong way some time (I'm not one of them). Pogo Bill has already showed up on this thread and I don't want to go down with you as a "Serial Arguer". Next thing you know, he'll have us both blowing into a tube to get our keyboards to work on this forum.

Lead hazard liabilities and the EPA has taken the number U.S. battery manufacturers way down. Last I thought about it, I could only come up with 7 actual U.S. OEM's. There's lots of "Labels" out there, but these guys make those also.....

Exide
Delco 
Interstate
Johnson Control
Stryten
Dekka
East Penn


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Bob Driver said:


> Damn it Sidecar.... You sure rub people the wrong way some time (I'm not one of them). Pogo Bill has already showed up on this thread and I don't want to go down with you as a "Serial Arguer". Next thing you know, he'll have us both blowing into a tube to get our keyboards to work on this forum.


I've responded to a few posts on this forum were the next day, wished my laptop had that tube to blow in before you could hit the "Post reply"


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 25, 2021)

I've always thought jut keeping a piece of equipment out of the bitter wind helped a great deal as well


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

SidecarFlip said:


> I've always thought jut keeping a piece of equipment out of the bitter wind helped a great deal as well


You're spot on with that observation. Had to extend a parking lot for trash trucks once. Laid it out so that every truck faced with the radiator away from the wind. Made a huge difference in cold morning startup. Hit -30 in Indianapolis once when I was running the Waste Management shop. Had the 2nd shift start up every truck and park them in pairs making a bumper-on-bumper "kiss". That way they kept each other warm and let them idle all night. A-hole GM came in the next morning and asked "Well how many trucks you got running so far this morning?" I said.... "All of them, and by the way, you can bet I've got way more trucks running than you're going to have drivers willing to climb into them and run routes at -30." We were the only WMI location actually operating in 5 Midwest States until that cold snap finally broke 3 days later. GM took credit for it on a conference call with Corporate when they asked how we managed to pull it off when everybody else was shut down


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## jordluvsash (Oct 15, 2021)

BigT said:


> Good Morning jordluvsash, welcome to the forum.
> 
> Attached below is information regarding a block heater for a Ford 1910 tractor. Apparently, either plug hole will do, so choose the easiest one to get to. You can probably find aftermarket heaters for half price. Your choice.
> 
> New Holland 1910 - 3 CYL COMPACT TRACTOR(08/83 - 12/86) Parts Diagrams





BigT said:


> Good Morning jordluvsash, welcome to the forum.
> 
> Attached below is information regarding a block heater for a Ford 1910 tractor. Apparently, either plug hole will do, so choose the easiest one to get to. You can probably find aftermarket heaters for half price. Your choice.
> 
> New Holland 1910 - 3 CYL COMPACT TRACTOR(08/83 - 12/86) Parts Diagrams


Thank you for the input BigT. I struggled to find any information on where to install. However the heater kit I just purchased for that tractor came with instructions for a 1910, and 2110. They say to put it in the frost plug right rear. Located behind the fuel filter bracket. Of course that's the tougher one to get too. But I will give it a shot. Plan on using tractor to plow driveway all winter and while the glow plugs work nicely, it's peace of mind knowing I'll have nice warm fluids a couple hours ahead of time. Can always keep it on a timer as well. Thanks again for all the input on this forum. If anyone else has same tractor and has any suggestions please throw them this way 🙂


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