# IH 3414 rear remote connections



## Randy3414 (Oct 13, 2019)

Hi All,

New to the forum, and just picked up a gas 3414 not to long ago, It needs a good cleaning and paint, wiring, hoses etc. but everything seems to work so far. Not 100 percent sure of the year since someone added reinforcing plates to the frame over the serial number on both sides. But I think it's 1963 based on the engine numbers and some of the part numbers I've researched.

Anyway, I wanted to add rear remote connections to run a 3 point backhoe, does anybody know where to tap into the hydraulics. I think there is an aux connection point on the front of the lift unit on the valve body. But I'm not sure where to run the return without teeing into the main return. If anyone can help out or maybe have pictures of one setup on their IH 3414 would be great..

Thanks 

Randy


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Welcome to the forum Randy. Do you already have the backhoe attachment? Some of these three point backhoes to attach to your three point and come with their own hydraulic tank and a pump that fastens to your pto. Might be something to think about if you are still looking for a hoe.


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## Randy3414 (Oct 13, 2019)

Thanks.. I already have the backhoe and it does come with the tank but not the PTO pump. I wanted to run it off the tractor if possible. A good pump is $300 -$500 and I'm trying to keep the overall cost down on tractor.


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

I suspect some custom plumbing would be your best bet. Looking for and hoping to find some(any) factory parts/pieces that simply "install and connect" might not be much of an option.

Can you provide some details concerning just what you have on the tractor to work with? Is it just a bare tractor with an internal or engine driven pump for steering and three point? Loader mounted with a front pump? How and where to tap in depends on a few different things. Are you hoping for a power beyond type configuration with the three point operational while the backhoe is mounted? Probably can be done but will complicate matters some. As always, photos showing some specifics of the hydraulics would be helpful.


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## Randy3414 (Oct 13, 2019)

It has the single stage pump on the side of the engine, front mounted pump driven off the crank and it does has power steering. It also has the Drott 4 in 1 bucket, with the control valve back next to the lift housing. The 3 point is set up with a box scraper right now, but I wanted to add future attachments like the backhoe as needed. I'm just using in on a small piece of property to do some grading, landscaping, dig trenches for electrical/plumbing and footings for a shop.

The backhoe only needs 8-11 gpm and PTO pumps cost $300-$500. If I can figure out the line connection points it should only be under $200 for hose and fittings. So if anyone has a 3414 that has rear remotes, I would like to see how they are hooked up..

Here's a few pictures..


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

The photos of the machine are nice but what's in question is the plumbing back at the valves and lift housing. The pipes leading to and from that area. Are the valves operating the loader factory type remote valves or is there an actual loader valve mounted somewhere? That's what needs to be explained and identified in order to determine what changes need to be made.


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## Randy3414 (Oct 13, 2019)

I'm away from home right now to take pictures of the valve plate and Hyd lines. These were just pictures I had on my computer. As soon as I get home on Sunday I will take mores pictures.

Thanks


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

A few more things to consider...Ideally, the valve(or valve stack) on your backhoe would be power beyond capable, which will permit you to hook things up so the loader, existing remotes, and three point would all be available for use at any time. If it's not that type of valve then some concessions will need to be made. It can still probably be done, but won't be nearly so simple and straight forward.


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

Most industrial loaders use a valve that is power beyond capable. You cannot just hook into the return line to supply a hoe. it would drive the loader valve crazy and do weird things. You may have to buy a power beyond fitting that installs in the loader valve. Plumb that to supply the hoe and as for the return if no plugs are accessible in the reservoir teeing into the return is an option. Note when the hoe is removed the supply and return for the hoe must be connected together so the oil has a place to go. It will not affect the loader operation. See if this helps explain it https://www.insidersecretstohydraulics.com/power-beyond.html


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## John Liebermann (Sep 17, 2018)

Why cant a "Power Beyond" valve be replaced with two "Open Center' valves plumbed in series. 

I need help understanding the difference or why a "Power Beyond" valve is important. 

Thank you in advance for the help!


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## Busted Tractor (May 22, 2018)

If you do not use a power beyond and connect a second valve in series and operate a the second control valve back pressure in the first valve may cause unexpected operation of cylinders connected to the first valve and will cause the first valve to leak oil. To try to explain the power beyond fitting it connects the inlet of the first valve to the power beyond fitting without putting any pressure on the drain passages of the first valve. Maybe another way to explain it the power beyond fitting carries oil straight thru the first valve unless a spool is activated. This does not "load" the drain circuits of the first valve. 
Without the power beyond fitting installed the oil goes thru passages and returns to the reservoir. Withe the pb installed the oil can no longer flow thru the return passages but must flow thru the pb fitting. 
There is another way to operate two valve off one pump. It requires installing a "switch valve" in the line between the pump and the two valves. This allows only one of the valves to operate at a time and must be changed to operate the other. The bad of this set up is the is no relief valve between the valve and the pump. Old loader hoes from the 50's and 60's used this method. Hope this helps.
https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/PDF/basic_hydraulic.pdf


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## Randy3414 (Oct 13, 2019)

Here are pictures of the valve plate with the auxiliary tap that for remotes (as I said in my first post) and another picture of the valve stack at the rear which is for the Drott 4 in 1 bucket. I've seen some old pictures with remotes on a B-414 connected off the valve stack on the rear but they were not very good pictures so it was hard to see but it looked like there was a plate on the outside of the stack was just a block that just had the pressure port and return on it no control.

I'm not just wanting to tap into lines as some seem to think in their posts, there are places to do it. All I'm asking is for anyone who has a IH 3414 with remotes is to take a couple of pictures that show how it was done on theirs, maybe from the factory or with original parts that might make it simple.

And I know it's filthy, I've fixed most of the Hyd leaks there were many, some were just a matter of tightening a fitting or hose clamp plus few seals. One more leak on the draft/lift control (o-ring) and I will give it a power wash and start painting it.

Thanks for any help


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

In one of your earlier posts you mentioned an engine driven pump and a crankshaft driven pump. You have two pumps, one operating the lift and one operating the loader? The loader operates with the remote valve stack you pictured? If that's the case do both pumps draw fluid from the tractor sump or is there a separate reservoir somewhere? 

I realize that you have yet to receive answers to your original questions, but in my opinion if you're hoping someone out there will have a similar tractor with what you THINK you need/want, hear your plea and respond with photos, you may have a long wait. I think you would be better off working with what you have instead of wondering about what you don't have. Also what you have labeled as a possible auxiliary connection point. What are you basing that assumption on?


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## Randy3414 (Oct 13, 2019)

Yes both pumps draw from a common reservoir.. And yes I realize most out there may not have what I'm looking for but it can't hurt to ask, isn't that why god created the internet and forums or was that Al Gore ha ha… Since I haven't found anybody local (Reno area) that knows anything about this old tractor, new tractor shops won't touch it. There's a hyd shop local but I would need to take it down to them drop it off and they could probably figure it all out but that would be costly, that's a last resort or I would just buy a PTO pump...

As far as the aux connection, that's what it's called in the manual with no further explanation. Also Canadian ******* channel on youtube calls it the same and even says this is an aux connection for remotes or other equipment you may want to connect during a tear down of the back half of the hyd housing and valve body.. I reached out to him but have not heard back..


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

While I can't confirm this my suspicion is that port is tied to the lift cylinder and probably will have pressure while the lift piston is under load. Most likely nothing that would be of any help supplying a backhoe. 

Personally, I wouldn't consider a pto pump at all in this case. I doubt the lift hydraulic pump would supply the GPM you say the hoe requires so I'd have to lean toward the crank driven unit. If it supplies the loader well enough it's probably going to run the hoe.

I take it you hope/plan to make the necessary changes yourself. As has been previously mentioned, the need for proper power beyond configuration will be required whichever pump you decide to go with. That would the most critical part. Either the backhoe valve stack or the current loader valve stack must meet that demand. The rest is just a matter of interrupting flow, adding in fittings, hoses, and couplers. As has been mentioned, whenever the engine is running the path for oil flow through the system MUST be maintained whether the backhoe is connected or not.


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## John Liebermann (Sep 17, 2018)

Thank you Busted Tractor for the detailed description. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question.

So it looks like that a PB valve is kind of like the valve in a power washer( dont know what they are called) that allows flow through when a pressure is applied to the back side, otherwise it remains closed(?). 

Thanks again.


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## Randy3414 (Oct 13, 2019)

Yes that aux port tees off the pressure line so both lift and what ever is hooked to that port will both work at the same time which is not a big deal because you would not be using them at the same time. The shut off valve stops flow to both.

The loader and hitch both are feed from the crank driven pump, the pressure line comes off the loader valve stack. The engine mounted pump is just for the power steering.

I was looking at the parts manual today and the end plate that I point to in the second picture is called a "convertible end plate" which is the same end plate on the loader valve stack and that is where the pressure line comes from and feeds the valve stack at the rear and has 2 ports. So I'm thinking one side could serve as the pressure port and the other side could be a return. I'll have to do a bit more research on this. It may be that easy or maybe not..


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## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

The tractor has two valve stacks, each with a convertible end plate as pictured?


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## Randy3414 (Oct 13, 2019)

Correct. The front valve stack is located under the fuel and Hyd reservoir between the firewall and engine. There is a pressure line off the convertible end plate that feeds the rear stack which on this tractor only has the Drott 4 in 1 bucket control on it. If this tractor had a factory backhoe it would have valve stacks on both sides at the rear for it to feed from the same crank driven pump which is 17 GPM.

Also upon closer inspection I traced the engine mounted pump and looked and the Hyd circuit diagram closer, it didn't clearly show where the hitch feed line came from in the circuit, the hitch/lift is feed off that pump which is 9 GPM.

Here are the diagrams of the circuits.. Enjoy


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## ArneW (Jun 16, 2018)

I have a IH 3414 diesel with a front loader and a backhoe, it has the two pumps. There is a valve by the seat that switches the power steering hydraulics off and over to the backhoe to operate the swing movement, otherwise all the hydraulics work all the time. 

I saw this post late, let me know if you still need pictures 


Sent from my iPhone using Tractor Forum


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## Randy3414 (Oct 13, 2019)

Thanks for jumping in.. If yours has the factory backhoe then it would be set up completely different but I would love to see pictures of it maybe some of the hydraulics around the seat ..


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## ArneW (Jun 16, 2018)

photos looking back from in front of the seat, both sides 


Sent from my iPhone using Tractor Forum


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## Randy3414 (Oct 13, 2019)

Thanks for the picture.. Does yours have the duel pump on mounted on the side of the engine or is it a single pump? I would like to see the plumbing configuration for that.. Yours is a 64 or newer correct, you can tell by the brake housing. And yours has a different transmission case cover since you don't have the 3 point lift..


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## Jsmo66 (Nov 6, 2020)

Hi All - I just picked up a 3414 with loader that seems to be a similar machine and I have a related question to this thread. I would like to install 1 cylinder to control a scraper blade. The manual also points to that Aux port but I need a return line some place correct? Any idea where that might be? I have a picture of the valve body in the back right side and I'm not sure what's going on under those two capped fittings? Any thoughts? Thanks!


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## Randy3414 (Oct 13, 2019)

Hard to tell in that picture what it's for.. Where do the hyd lines that are connected to it go? Does it have a lever on it? It looks to be aftermarket (not IH original), but hard again hard to tell in the picture maybe take a few more. 

Mine has a control valve on the right side above the axle also but it controls the 4 in 1 bucket.. I haven't figured out the remote connection set up yet, I've been cleaning/painting and repair/replacing parts.


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## Jsmo66 (Nov 6, 2020)

We have to collaborate for sure because they seem to be the same machine. The tractor is about 2 hrs away so I'll take more pics this week. The handle with knob is on the right rear, put up another pix and it can be seen all pics. I have a good supply of paper manuals from yesterday's tractors along with an original IH parts book. I'll post more soon


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## Randy3414 (Oct 13, 2019)

I know if you have the loader with backhoe then there's a valve that you switch when your ready to use it and it diverts the hydraulics from the power steering to the backhoe. But I think it's usually mounted on the left side.. You never know someone could have had almost anything running on the 3 point using hydraulics..

I have all the manuals for mine also and they pretty much show everything that mine has but nothing related to remote connections or backhoe plumbing..


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