# Z-Turn V-Twin Replacement Engines



## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Sure seems like I've done a lot of engine replacements lately, especially on CV23-CV25 Kohler Command Pros. Great engine, but they get tired after 15 years. The problem you run into with deciding on a rebuild, or a replacement for an older Command Pro (CV or CH) is the ring set, and you don't know until you mic the bores. 

Kohler upgraded the piston/ring set up on their 23-25HP command Pros. They have an "A" piston and a "B" piston, the "B" being in later models. The "A" piston runs a 1.5mm ring on the top and won't fit the newer style "B" piston. The problem is finding a Standard ring set for the “A” piston, tough search and usually “Not Available”. Now you’ve got to go with a “B” piston/ring set that is $110 wholesale for each side. With a gasket kit and new valves you’re $400 into parts at wholesale pricing with no labor. I did come across this “Kit” and it was $160 at the time (3 weeks ago), but as you’ll see if you click the link, there are those dreaded words “CURRENTLY UNAVAILABLE”. My biggest worry is that it may also come with the Chinese version of Covid-19 all over the packaging
https://www.amazon.com/Lil-Red-Barn...7NDJBD7PVWW&psc=1&refRID=99G5DMVT27NDJBD7PVWW

New Kohler replacement engines come with a 3-year warranty from Kohler. Briggs is 1-year commercial and 2-years consumer. I’ve been pushing my customers to go with a replacement engine and shoving any warranty claims over to Kohler and Briggs. I’m not dumb enough to even consider giving some of my knucklehead customers a 3-year warranty on one of my rebuilds. Some would have the same oil it went out the door in it and they'd be back 34 months later wanting me to warranty an engine with a hole in the block.

Here’s two pretty good deals I’ve found going right now on the inter-web if you’re looking for a vertical V-Twin replacement engine. I've installed them both and they are NICE engines.....

*Briggs 27 HP $875 delivered*
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIGGS-STR...763472&hash=item3b4a7073f5:g:gF4AAOSwqOxeao7g

*Kohler 24 HP $825 delivered*
http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/KT735-3057.html

These are both 1" shaft engines, so be sure you're not running a 1 1/8" clutch, or you'll be buying a new clutch also.


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Well, is now the time is stock up on the Briggs 27hp engine? Or run from Briggs as it suffers their own induced bankruptcy? Is the Kohler the better engine always? 

I'm surprised to find Subaru makes small engines? 
http://subarupower.com/products/engines/v-twin-series-features-benefits/

So, now its Honda? Subaru? Kawasaki? The decades of Wisconsin built engines; Tecumseh, Wisconsin, Robin, Onan, Briggs & Stratton, Kohler, Generac, are now fading into the past. Perhaps Kohler shall remain (though now in the south) even as Wisconsin is too costly a state to build in?


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

Bob, your views on this? 
https://pressurewashr.com/major-small-engines-manufacturers-for-power-equipment/


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Honda makes an extensive lineup of small engines. The one engine market Honda seems to shy away from (at the moment) is commercial zero-turn mowers. 
https://www.engine-specs.net/honda-small-engines

The GXV690 is their biggest V-twin at 22HP. You can get one on a Swisher 60" Response, which is supposed to be a commercial grade mower. To a commercial lawn guy, a 22Hp engine with a 60" deck, makes about as much sense as buying a 4-cyl truck with a 12,000lbs tow package.

Unless this "stumble" with Briggs prompts them to come up with 25HP V-Twin you can spec on a Scag, or Exmark, they're not evening trying to penetrate the commercial z-turn market in the U.S.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

Sorry Briggs, those deals aren't good enough for this stage of bankruptcy. Those are deals for the uninformed. Can the country afford to bail them out when there is so much other crap going down?


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## DK35vince (Jan 22, 2006)

Bob Driver said:


> Unless this "stumble" with Briggs prompts them to come up with 25HP V-Twin you can spec on a Scag, or Exmark, they're not evening trying to penetrate the commercial z-turn market in the U.S.


Briggs offers the Vanguard series engines for many of the commercial zero turn brands.
Recently bought a Snapper Pro with the 37 HP Vanguard EFI.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Groo said:


> Sorry Briggs, those deals aren't good enough for this stage of bankruptcy. Those are deals for the uninformed. Can the country afford to bail them out when there is so much other crap going down?


That engine has been available at that price since early April. Briggs filed bankruptcy this week. The two are not intertwined.......


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

There'll be no gov bailout for a company like Briggs. Way too much competition out there even for other small engine producers still made in the US. Sad part is Briggs is even failing the pension funds for retirees. People that made a career of working at Briggs are now loosing their pensions. Sad.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

I've read they have an old school, noncontributory, defined benefit plan straight out of the 1960's. In 2016, they offered a lump sum buy out to their retirees at the time. Once they did that buyout, their plan was still underfunded by $313M. Their 2019 SEC filing showed their total pension obligation at $998M, which was by far their biggest debt


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## TX MX5200 (May 12, 2020)

Pensions are becoming a thing of the past...too bad for those with failing companies who relied on them for retirement.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

Pensions just can't keep up with raising life expectancy, inflation and shrinking company profit margins. The contracts that let's these pensions explode were poor management kicking the can down the road.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Some economist say the underfunded pension liability is as big, or bigger than the national debt.


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## Phil B (Jun 11, 2020)

I just bought a Craftsman YTS4000 at a yard sale with the 24HP B&S Platinum engine in it. It wasn't running, and she said it needed a jet or something. The fuel shutoff solenoid was stuck closed. Got it running today, and it has just over 300 hours on it. Are these good engines? I bought it mainly for the small FEL on it, which I haven't tried yet.

I saw your reply to my CC thread yesterday, but haven't had a chance yet to look for the manual for the 782.


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## Groo (Jan 17, 2020)

Bob Driver said:


> Some economist say the underfunded pension liability is as big, or bigger than the national debt.


We as a people can't keep on stepping in to cover these corporate pension liabilities, at least not anywhere close to 100%. We need to make a decision on what we as a country are foing to do with them, vote on it, and make it an across the board solution.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Both Briggs and Kohler kind of fell on their face with their engines in the early 2000's. Briggs with the Intek, Kohler with the Courage. It's what allowed Kawasaki to grab a foothold in the U.S. lawnmower market.

Since then Briggs has brought out the Platnium Series (40S7) and Kohler has brought out the 7000 Series (KT). Both of these are pretty good homeowner engines, comparable with the Kawasaki FR Series engine. As homeowner level engines, they are designed with life expectancy of about 1,000 hours if properly maintained.

Some people on here will tell you Honda is the best engine out there. No doubt they are good engines and they are really good engines for a push mower, or a pressure washer. The biggest V-twin vertical engine Honda makes is the 22HP GVX690. They're good up to about a 42" deck, anything bigger than that and you start hearing under power complaints. Takes a lot of power to mow with a 1,200LBS zero-turn, at 12MPH, with a 60" deck. Honda just doesn't have it at the moment and apparently isn't interested in building it for the U.S. market


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## TX MX5200 (May 12, 2020)

I ran a craftsman with a Briggs for several years... mowing 2 acres weekly for 4 years..... bought it used for 300 and couldn't wear it out. It wore me out though....I pulled trigger on a Gravely 52" with the Kawasaki....paid extra for the Kawasaki as I had read bad reviews on Kohler at the time.

No hour meter on the old craftsman, but I know I put around 400 on it and it was 5 years old when I got it....still running strong when I gave it away


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## andyvh1959 (Jul 1, 2015)

My 2015 Simplicity ZTR has a 25hp B&S Professional which I've heard is a decent engine. Being a 2015 here in Wisconsin (50 to 100 hours per year) I'd estimate the hours to be 250 to 300. Now since I bought it used last month I've added an hour meter to it. Should give me at least five years of good service with normal maintenance.


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