# ford 5640 doesn't move



## MojalakiGolf (Sep 2, 2015)

ford 5640 16X16 electronic tras. tried to cal clutches and clutch spring pressure goes to the end for both c3 & c4 up to 295 and then error code for pressure too high...anyone know what might cause it....suggestions ? cant cal fill time till this is done.....?? tractor only nudges an inch or so


----------



## film495 (Nov 1, 2013)

no idea. maybe a relief valve is plugged causing pressure to go too high? someone will jump in who knows more about hydraulics than I.


----------



## MojalakiGolf (Sep 2, 2015)

*5640 don't move*

WELL I have heard from a guy at a tractor repair shop for Ford ? newHollaned and he tells me that the seals in the clutch packs c1.2,3,4 are probably bad and the tractor will have to be split in three pieces to get at them, cost somewhere around 7-10 grand.....hmmmm...guess it will make a great lawn ornament from now on.....


----------



## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Not sure I agree with that assessment. I guess it's possible for the piston seals to swell to the point where excessive pressure is required to move the pistons, but highly unlikely unless an incorrect fluid has been used in the transmission. Even then, it's a stretch. Has anyone done any actual pressure tests on the system and/or the clutch packs involved or are you simply quoting the numbers that appear on the display while calibrating? Those numbers are a reference only and not actual pressures. These transmissions do have their problems, agreed, but most are electrical in nature, with switches and sensors being the largest culprits. The controllers are suspect as well. As complicated as they can be to diagnose, stuck pistons would be pretty low on the list of probabilities in my opinion. 
For what it's worth, solving such problems with this transmission "over the phone" is not easily done. It usually requires a hands on approach, with pressure checks, voltage and resistance tests, and a good working knowledge of the system. Also, when searching for help/information, there where two versions of the 16x16. the earlier version and the later referred to as the quad mod. While similar in many respects, they are not identical and the troubleshooting will vary some between the two.


----------



## MojalakiGolf (Sep 2, 2015)

*frustrated..........*

Well it's got me baffled that's for sure, in the cal mode for c3-c4 the dash readout goes all the way to 295 without any reduction in rpm, manual says it should put a load on it to 50 rpm drop, doesn't doo that then I get the error code for too high a pressure....been thru all the plugs and connectors I can find, they for the most part are nice and clean without any corrosion, or blackened pins....supposedly the manual tells me that as the numbers climb, each number step is a pulse from or too the modulator increasing the pressure but I haven't measured it so not sure if is just an indication or the modulator valve is not even working, but I have a scope so I can check that, I also have a high pressure gauge but will have to build an adapter to the fitting on the tractor to check the pressures.....haven't given up on it yet, just getting frustrated.........gilly


----------



## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

I understand your frustration, these tractors are not at all simple to diagnose and/or troubleshoot. There are test ports for most of the system pressure checks that often need to be performed, but they are not easily identified and accessed. As for the assumption of high pressures involved, until you actually verify that with gauges, you're just guessing. I believe it's possible the controller is simply increasing the pulse width to the affected clutches, not sensing the rpm drop it's looking for and then going into a default that the pressure must be too high. 
I don't see anything in your earlier posts about how all this came about. Only that your attempts to calibrate certain clutches have failed. It's rather difficult for any of us out here to get feel for the problems with only a few facts to consider. What, if any, operations of the transmission work, what doesn't, and what if any other error codes have you seen? Does this tractor by chance also have EDC and if so does it work as it should?


----------



## MojalakiGolf (Sep 2, 2015)

Ok....Thank You for being patient with this....History as we know it...tractor was purchased at an auction, boss man was told it had an intermittent problem, but it seems more permanent than intermittent.....was pushed onto a trailer and , brought to our golf course, sat all winter outside with no battery, in the spring I installed battery and it started instantly, put it in 1st gear low range and it moved about 6' and quit, hasn't moved since, no matter what I tried, it is an early 1993 model so it's the earlier of the 16X16 transmissions according to it's serial and model numbers, error codes all keep pointing to clutch problems, when I try to cal c3-c4 it displays U28-U30 pressure too high, if I then go directly to cal c1-c2 the error message is U34 main shift lever not in neutral, but it is and appears to work for all other tests.??? all the other error messages I have gotten were from lack of experience and my fault.....I pulled the test plug for C3 port today and am in the process of getting two gauges made up, I will let you know what the test results of those port tests are when I figure them out..........


----------



## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

Well, just for openers, I would leave the clutch calibrations for last in this case. The system has to be in working order for that to happen anyway. The purpose for calibrating the clutches is to help provide smoother clutch engagements and soften the shifts from one speed to another. It's not intended to solve system problems and clear error codes. Installing some gauges in the affected clutches is the best starting point. The more the better. It's always helpful to be able to read the different pressures at the same time to see which clutches are actually being pressurized, which are being released, and in what sequence it's all taking place. Plus you may be able to spot any significant changes in pressure from one clutch to another.


----------



## MojalakiGolf (Sep 2, 2015)

OK, So I Got Gauges and hoses made up and put them in the C1 & c2 clutch ports, when the tractor was cold and just started up I got 220 # on the c2 port, no matter what gear or wether the clutch pedal was pushed or not, no matter what I did it remained at 220 lbs, C1 port never showed anything....after warm up I tried the cal again just to get a base line and C1 had 220# and C2 had zero all through trying to calibrate c3 and c4...tried to Cal C1&C2 but error code kept saying I can't do that till I do the spring pressure calibration which we know doewsn't work....will try ports C3 & C4 tomorrow and see whats up with that, I guess I will have to try the pressure tests they outline in the book, but don't have a 4ft-951 bypass tool, so will have to figure out the jumper connections.....another day another test......thanks for listning to the saga.....


----------



## Fedup (Feb 25, 2014)

If you check the parts diagram for your serial number tractor, you may find some of the solenoid valves and coils for same are the same part number. If so, you can swap places with them and see what changes. If the 220 psi moves from one clutch to the other, you can assume one of the valves to be bad. If that fails to show you anything, you might consider having the computer tested. They are not the most reliable things in the world. Some problems can be repaired, others not. Replacement units are getting harder and harder to find.


----------



## MojalakiGolf (Sep 2, 2015)

Ok, Thanks for the heads up on swapping valves, although it won't be this year, I am heading to my winter home in lakeland Fl. and done with this thing for now, I did change the test gauges to the c3 & c4 test ports and got absolutely nothing for pressure, no matter what I did with clutch, gears etc. even tried the tests again but nothing at all on either port, Manual says to take the cover of the control valves off to check them, quite a lengthy procedure and tractor is still sitting on grass so I guess it will stay there for the winter......I just don't have the time left to deal with it...who knows, maybe in the spring it will work....Ha...ha.... thanks for all the help, I do appreciate it, it's just beyound my capability at the moment.......gilly :dazed:


----------



## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

On the early 16x16 transmissions there is the dump valve that allows shuttling between forward and reverse. What it does is allow mechanical shifting of a single synchronized gear through its three positions (F, N, R) via a cable and moving a dump valve spool which releases oil from the clutchpacks allowing the direction change. What occurs is the cable can snap an end or break, allowing the valve to switch to the dumped position and nothing will happen. Checking the cable connection involves removing the floor mat and floor panel then inspecting the mechanical connection.

Because the issue is intermittent, and the tractor moved when first started, I would look to that cable control on the dump valve as the source of your problem. When dumped there will be limited pressure on one or more of the clutches, and the tractor will be in neutral.

If by chance you have a later transmission, there will be a solenoid that releases the dump valve, and a button on the forward reverse knob. If it has the button, check the wiring for a fray or broken wire below the forward reverse lever where the wire is deflected by use, that is allowing the system to activate or deactivate.


----------



## MojalakiGolf (Sep 2, 2015)

*Dump Valve & F-N-R*

Not sure if it affects it but it is the pre 1993 type, and when I start the tractor up as you would normally with the range lever in either the higher or lower group and the high low lever in low I can rock the tractor back and forth by shifting from forward to reverse, it only moves about six inches but it does try to go forward or back, so I would assume it is not that problem...maybe you can shed some light on this.....thanks for jumping in, I need all the help I can get, but like I said, maybe next spring...Brrrr...getting cold to work on it out there today...gilly


----------



## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

I attempted to reply, and for some reason it locked me out. But, the symptoms are exactly what I would suspect if the actuation cable is the root of the problem on the older transmissions. The assembly you want to look for is under the floorboards, and is likely buried in farming dirt and jammed so it will not fully actuate, or the cable is broken or loose and not doing what it should.


----------



## MojalakiGolf (Sep 2, 2015)

Well I spent the whole morning taking everything apart I needed to to raise the floorboards about six inches, couldn't take them all the way off as I would have had to take the fender and seat and everything else off, but under the floorboards there is no cable, nothing on top of the transmission, which was quit clean but a couple of small hydraulic tubes and the mechanical linkage for the transmission, a few wire harnesses and two connectors which were also nice and clean inside....Bummer...where exactly is this cable and what is it attached to mechanically? before I go putting it all back together.....???? there was absolutely no cables of any kind attached to any of the shifter linkages, especially the f-n-r one ????? this tractor is a 5640 SLE and built in march of 1993


----------



## RC Wells (Dec 26, 2008)

If what you have on top of the casting is electrical connections, you have the electronic transmission. That is the newer version. Some of the electronic versions have an access plate that can be removed to reach the solenoid for the dump valve and then the Fiat improved version has to be pulled apart same as if working on the clutches.

You will need the repair manual for the serial number of both the tractor and the transmission to sort the path into the solenoid if the solenoid is bad.

But before embarking on that project check the switch on the F-N-R lever and be sure it has continuity to the connector under the floorboards. If not, the problem will be in the wiring between the lever switch and the top of the transmission.


----------

