# 07 snapper RER dead in the water



## TheBrain (Jul 31, 2015)

snapper rer dead in the water
The battery is at 12.4VDC when I turn the key nothing here's what I've checked.
battery 12.4 VDC
have 12.4 VDC down at the starter seliond









there is a old fashioned glass cartirge fuse near the seliond I checked continuity it was fine.

turned key to start zero voltage at the starter.
this where I stopped. and ask the experts.

thanks in advance I really need to be mowing I'm at 2 weeks growth where I like to every every two weeks so now I'm approaching overgrowth stage at least in the back.

edit: I attempted to jump the starter siliond w/ a short painted socket. still no joy.


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## TheBrain (Jul 31, 2015)

I'm suspicious of the starter solenoid because I have 12 VDC coming into siliniod just not 12VDC out of solenoid.

is this the correct silioniod? https://www.amazon.com/Briggs-Strat...gs+&+Stratton+starter+s,lawngarden,232&sr=1-2


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

First, get the tractor out of the water.
Check and clean your battery terminals then make sure the battery cables are connected nice and snug. If that doesn't work, tap the solenoid with a screwdriver handle as you have the key turned and see if it catches. If that doesn't work, jump across the posts on the starter with the screwdriver to see if it will engage. 
I would also check to see if there is a safety switch that is preventing the tractor from starting. Did you leave the blades engaged when you shut it down? Is there a seat switch? Is it in gear?
Lots to check.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

if you have one solenoid wire from the switch, then this will do the job for you.

if you would like to get adventurous, on the non working solenoid, undo the two lug nuts and drill the 4 rivets out, gently remove the Bakelite top from the base and see if a fine winding has burnt through and made the solenoid open circuit, this can be resoldered to the start pole by unwinding a small amount of the fine wire, just enough to solder to the post, you will need pop rivets and a rivet gun to assemble.

but then again, you blokes can buy your stuff cheaper than what we can, so no need to do a bush job.


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## TheBrain (Jul 31, 2015)

pogobill said:


> First, get the tractor out of the water.
> Check and clean your battery terminals then make sure the battery cables are connected nice and snug.
> *I skipped this step because I had 12VDC at the seloniod, I will still clean I have a wire brishol battery brush.*
> If that doesn't work, tap the solenoid with a screwdriver handle as you have the key turned and see if it catches.
> ...


is it possiable the paint on sockect extension prevented the connection of jumping the siliniod?

will retest seliniod and report back.
Thanks for advice.


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## TheBrain (Jul 31, 2015)

same old shit different day.

installed the new starter silinoid same result.12v on one side zero 12v going to starter.

checked continuity between the green wire from ignition to silinoid this wire is good.
now I'm thinking it could be a safety switch under seat can
this be bypassed. if yes how? thanks


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

if you have a circuit on the switch start wire, the safety sensors will not affect this, the sensors only kill the spark, I would make another wire and take this from the battery positive and the other end, hold this against the start spade and see what happens, is the new solenoid clicking when you use the start switch, if no click, no start and it will be obvious that the start wire or even the start switch could be faulty.


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## TheBrain (Jul 31, 2015)

FredM said:


> if you have a circuit on the switch start wire, the safety sensors will not affect this, the sensors only kill the spark, I would make another wire and take this from the battery positive and the other end, hold this against the start spade and see what happens, is the new solenoid clicking when you use the start switch, if no click, no start and it will be obvious that the start wire or even the start switch could be faulty.


Not sure if there is a circuit on the switch start wire. I do know after she’s running and I get off the seat she will turn off.


There isn’nt a noticeable click however I wasn’t intentionally listening.


The start wire is blue it connects to keyed ignition switch, I have tested continuity from switch end to the blue terminal (3rd terminal of solenoid) no 12VDC at 3rd terminal when turning ignition key.


If the ignition switch was operating normaly when the switch is powered it will only send the trigger 12VDC when in start position.


Another observation w/ key on and 12VDC at positive input I can’t jump the 2 big terminals this done while not on the seat.


How is the seat sensor tested button pressed in allows the 12VDC unpressed unseated closes off the 12VDC.


I try the new wire from battery to starter result was a spark.doe's this mean the starter is shorted out basicely reuined?

edit: I tested the ignition switch from terminals B (battery) to S (solenoid) result no connection until the key is turned. ignition good.

must be the underseat safety switch.concidering securing to the closed position even though it will stay running when off seat.

I've looked around the brake clught for a switch couldn't find one, over the years I have observed having to press extremely hard on the brake to get ignition if I use the slitest less pressure then no ignition.
thanks


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

in your photo, can you remove the blue starter wire from the tag on the solenoid and using a screw driver large enough to place against the positive pole on the solenoid and the end of the screw driver against the starter tag, when doing this you will need to press firmly because there will be a lot of sparking otherwise, now if the solenoid is in working order, then the starter motor should turn the engine over.

The next test to try if the first one doesn't work is to bridge the two large poles on the solenoid, the pole with the battery cable bolted to it and the other pole that carries the current to the starter motor, press the bridging object firmly because there will be some arcing and sparks, if the engine turns over then we know the solenoid is not working if the first test fails, and the starter is ok.

you mention that you have to press the brake pedal hard to start, have you traced the pedal pivot area and the brake rod looking for a sensor??.

I mentioned previously to take a wire (temporary) from the battery positive and hold this against the solenoid starter wire tag, NOT THE STARTER MOTOR, of course you will get sparks, and this wire is only for this test.

can you give the model and numbers of the snapper and I will try and dig up some info on it so I can get a better idea of the circuits.


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## TheBrain (Jul 31, 2015)

FredM said:


> in your photo, can you remove the blue starter wire from the tag on the solenoid and using a screw driver large enough to place against the positive pole on the solenoid and the end of the screw driver against the starter tag, when doing this you will need to press firmly because there will be a lot of sparking otherwise, now if the solenoid is in working order, then the starter motor should turn the engine over.
> 
> The next test to try if the first one doesn't work is to bridge the two large poles on the solenoid, the pole with the battery cable bolted to it and the other pole that carries the current to the starter motor, press the bridging object firmly because there will be some arcing and sparks, if the engine turns over then we know the solenoid is not working if the first test fails, and the starter is ok.
> 
> ...


yes I looked around the brake didn't see the switch maybe it's underneth?

I tryed to insert a paper clip into the wires coming from the underseat safety switch is this a legit connection because it didn't help

the snapper rer mower seriel # 2012912220 model # 7800105 it's a 2009 rear engine 12.5 horse power intex riding mower

status is I have 12vdc from battery to right side of solenoid,turn key no 12vdc at trigger wire. I beleive the ignition switch is good 
thanks


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## TheBrain (Jul 31, 2015)

update I charge battery to 12.9vdc connect 14guage wire to spade ternimal trigger this w/ key on position w/brake locked nothing happened not even a little spark.


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

TheBrain said:


> update I charge battery to 12.9vdc connect 14guage wire to spade ternimal trigger this w/ key on position w/brake locked nothing happened not even a little spark.


did you run the other end of the jumper from the battery positive ??, and you didn't hear the solenoid click when you attached the wire to the start tag ??.

have you tried the first two paragraphs that i wrote in post #9???????.


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## TheBrain (Jul 31, 2015)

FredM said:


> did you run the other end of the jumper from the battery positive ??, and you didn't hear the solenoid click when you attached the wire to the start tag ??.
> 
> have you tried the first two paragraphs that i wrote in post #9???????.


yes I connect a 14guage wire to positive of battery then connect to the trigger spade terminal didn't hear a click at siliniod still no crank.

edit the silinoid that came w/ snapper is a 3 terminal.

the siliniod I replaced w/ is a 4 terminal where the 4th terminal is ground wire to frame, since the siliniod is bolted to frame I think this grounded the siliniod so I never added the 4th ground wire.is the 4 terminal siliniod being grounded by attaching to frame?


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## bbirder (Feb 26, 2006)

Quit thinking of 12vdc like air pressure in a tire. You can have 12v and still have a worthless battery. It does no good to keep charging it. I know you have been told, but I'm going to tell you again. Remove the battery and take it to a local auto parts house. Ask them to test it for you. They don't charge for this but bring some money as I suspect you will need a new battery.
You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip and you can't make a bad battery pull in a solenoid or start an engine. In fact if it is bad, it makes it extremely hard to test the circuits like you are trying to do.


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## TheBrain (Jul 31, 2015)

I've been using my boats battery charger to maintain batterys, it recently when south. so before a research a new charger I took it to the auto store asked for a quickie charge may have forgot to ask for it to be tested, however when I was leaving they tested battery to be bad. edit : this was the tow vehicle batterythat was bad he I assume he gave the snappers battery a quickie.

yes the battery has 12.9vdc after recharge just won't hold a charge, are you saying the snappers siliniod isn't getting enough current (amps).thanks I'll pickup another battery and resume testing.

still waiting for response on the 4 terminal siliniod like is it grounded when I bolt it to the frame or must I run a wire to the 4th terminal thanks


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## FredM (Nov 18, 2015)

use your multimeter set to ohms, hold one probe on the 4th terminal and the other to the metal case of the solenoid, if there is a circuit then no need to earth, -- but if there is no circuit,-- then you will need to earth the 4th terminal, personally, I would have earthed this out when this was installed, it is there for a purpose.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Over my years of running shops, I found it some times helps to build a "Time line" to review a problem repair. Here's yours on that 2009 RER Snapper "No-Start". My thoughts are in the parenthesis...
*
Your post Dec 3, 2019* - "My 2007 snapper RER starter 12.5hp briggs/stratton needs starter".... (You apparently bought a new one)

*Your post Dec 20, 2019* - "a very weak battery it was 10volts before charging for a short time".... (You apparently *didn't* buy a new one)
*
Jan 22 to April 2, 2020 - * *40* post thread on a simple valve adjustment for a 12.5 OHV Briggs. (That's got to be some sort of internet record, or at least on this forum )

*Your post May 5, 2020* - "The battery is at 12.4VDC when I turn the key"..... (Apparently same battery as Dec 20 post, Trump just sent him $1,200)
*
Your post May 6, 2020* - "I'm suspicious of the starter solenoid because I have 12 VDC coming into siliniod just not 12VDC out of solenoid."
(Solenoid v.s. siliniod possible TIA taking place in the time it takes to write one sentence)

*Your post # 6 May 11, 2020* - "same old shit different day. installed the new starter silinoid same result.12v on one side zero 12v going to starter. (At least he spent $12 of that $1,200)

*Your post May 11, 2020* - "(3rd terminal of solenoid) no 12VDC at 3rd terminal when turning ignition key. If the ignition switch was operating normaly when the switch is powered it will only send the trigger 12VDC when in start position." (Finally figuring out the s-terminal on a 5-prong key switch, he's on a roll now)

*Your post May 13, 2020* - edit the silinoid that came w/ snapper is a 3 terminal. the siliniod I replaced w/ is a 4 terminal where the 4th terminal is ground wire to frame, since the siliniod is bolted to frame I think this grounded the siliniod so I never added the 4th ground wire.is the 4 terminal siliniod being grounded by attaching to frame? (Damn... this is a train wreck, but I'm getting used to the term "siliniod")

My thoughts after noticing you've owned this same simple mower for *the last 5 years* and should have it pretty much figured out by now are:

1) Stop being a cheap ass and buy a new 230cca battery at Walmart. They're $22 with a core, at least help stimulate the damn economy while that Snapper repair is kicking your butt...

2) A 3-post *SOLENOID* grounds through the brackets. A 4-post *SOLENOID* grounds through the 4th post. If you want it to work, run a jumper wire between the 4th post and the mounting bracket bolt, but then you already indicated you knew that in your May 13 post.

3) An RER Snapper is about as simple as a riding mower gets. Claiming to not understand how it works after 5 years of ownership, you're either truly mechanically challenged, or you're playing with people on this forum. *56* post and climbing for a 1 hour "No-Start" job on a RER Snapper.....

That's my $.02 worth, take it or leave it


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## TheBrain (Jul 31, 2015)

yes you make some excellent points thanks for reminding me of previous posts.
I like you're idea to ground the 4th terminal at the solenoid mount a small jumper came w/ solenoid.

I'll pickup a new battery and report back.

I think what happened to this battery is during a underneth inspection the battery was inplace result alot of fuild leaked out I'm thinking this is why I'm constantly having to charge.

yes according to my records I've owned her going on 6 years, purchashed from online auction in Georgia.never had any major issues but have always had the slow dragging starter which was actually valves out of adjustment which bty wasn't a normal valve adjust tighten lock nut deal.

fredm thanks for tip on continuity of outer case. did it sound like I correctly tested the ignition switch? there's not much room to fit my hand where the soliniod mounts.
thanks again.


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

Okey Dokey.... Time to move on..........


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