# Need opinions on cheap pushmowers/tractors



## Country Boy (Mar 18, 2010)

The hardware store/small engine dealer/repair shop I work for is currently being sold to a new owner. The new guy wants to expand our equipment lineup with some new brands. We currently sell Ariens lawn and garden equipment almost exclusively, but we want a cheaper brand for folks who just don't want to spend $700 on a walk behind mower. He asked me for some suggestions on brands for the store, but I'm just not sure. I have worked on Husqvarna/AYP brands (Poulan, Poulan Pro, Craftsman, Husqvarna, newer Murray, etc) and MTD brands (Yard Machines, Yard Man, White Outdoor, MTD, Cub Cadet, etc) and I really don't have much of a preference either way. Is there something that favors one company over the other? I dislike the cheaper brands myself due to all the troubles I have had to deal with because of weak materials, poor construction and bad designs, but we need something. We used to be a Lawn Boy dealer for almost 40 years until Toro decided that Lawn Boy would only be sold through Home Depot, and we were supposed to just fix them. That soured my boss to them because of all the years he had sold their product.

So Tractor Forum, if you were running a shop, what bargain brand of mower would you carry? Any particular reason for that choice? What brand would you avoid?


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## sargentodd (Oct 3, 2011)

My opion is that you get what you pay for. Im a john deere guy. (even thou i have a murry). Every brand has their own flaws. MTD products usally run good till a problem surfaces. Then trying to get the parts to repair them your better off buying a new machine. But if you want a machine that you can use and abuse ( i do) spend the extra bucks and get a john deere or Husqvarna. They are very good quality!!!


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## Country Boy (Mar 18, 2010)

Oh, I agree with you 100%. If I was in the market for a walk behind, it would most certainly be an Ariens. I've seen those mowers 20 years old and still mowing like they were new. I have yet to see a cheaper brand last beyond 7-8 years when used as a primary mower. The wheels fall off, the baffles under the deck rust through/fall off, the handle breaks, or the deck rusts through. The thing is that we can either sell the cheaper mowers to folks who want them, or we can sell nothing to the folks who want them. The boss wants to increase his sales and market area, so we need the inexpensive units to sell.


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## dangeroustoys56 (Jul 26, 2010)

Id say ( if they still made them ) Murrays and Dynamarks - reason i say that is my dad has a mid 80's murray push mower with a 3.5HP briggs - thing spends 90% of its time out in the shed , last year i took it out, changed the gas and pulled the cord like 3 times and fired right up - changed the oil, then did a lil trimming with it and went right back in the shed.

Im not partial to MTD's ( actually i have a couple that im in the middle of working on ) - older ones are definitely built better - i cant say anything about new ones....

From what ive herd from newer craftsman owners, they arent happy either - a coworkers father bot a commercial walk behind mower from sears- in the 4 years hes owned it, its had numerous issues - quality/service has gone in the crapper.

With care and maintenence, you can make any machine last a long time - but thats just it- noone wants to spend a ton of money on tune ups, oil changes- or even just cleaning it - its just easier to get a new one.

Ive had good luck with my troy built 4 stroke weed wacker - has the changeable ends - only sort of complaint is its heavy with the ends on it.


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## Mickey (Aug 14, 2010)

If it were me, my shop, I'd be looking for a mfgr that stood behind their dealers and customers with readily available parts and supported their dealer when it comes to warranty issues. Dealer doesn't want to be holding the bag when a customer comes in with a problem and mfgr won't stand behind their products. Dealers don't need to loose customers due to the fault of the mfgr.

It may take a little more selling on the dealer's part but customer will be a lot more satisfied when parts/service are needed and dealer & mfgr aren't always in the *no* mode. Sometimes that takes saying yes even if the problem is likely due to the customer.

If such a mfgr can't be found for the price point you're looking for, at least the dealer should inform the customer ahead of time.

Small dealers are not likely ever going to be able to win the pricing game against big box stores but they can win over a customer's loyalty if the dealer is honest in their dealings with said customer.

Personally, haven't owned an entry level riding mower of any kind. Most of my experience with walking behind mowers are with reel mowers which aren't in favor with very many people today. Last walk behind was a McLane forward throw model. Look the same today as they did decades ago. Growing up in So Cal 50 yrs ago or so, reel mowers were the norm. Never even saw a rotary model until I visited family in mid-West.

McLane Manufacturing, Inc. Lawn mowers, Reel Mowers,


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## Country Boy (Mar 18, 2010)

Mickey, that's the beauty of working with Ariens. Not only are they about 5 blocks away from our dealership (Their original factory is about a block away from us), but they stand behind their stuff. I've even called on units outside of warranty, and they have stood behind them if it is apparent that the problem was on their end. They won't usually cover labor outside of warranty, but I have gotten them to cover parts or split the cost sometimes. Stihl is the same way for us. Our dealings with MTD have been more spotty. We sold a MTD tiller through the hardware side (Do It Best hardware) and the recoil broke the fourth time the guy used it. I called up the MTD rep that handles the Do It Best stores, and he told me that the recoil was considered a wear item and was only warrantied for 30 days. The warranty statement made no mention of that, only saying 2 year "limited warranty". I guess everything is limited because they wouldn't cover the busted flywheel on that same unit because "its part of the recoil group". That, coupled with the Chinese engines they put on there push mowers now has really soured me to their brands. Just a tip for anyone buying a mower, snow blower, etc. If the engine manufacturer isn't listed, its a Chinese engine. IE if they call it an MTD engine, or a Toro engine, or a Troy-bilt engine, etc., its a Honda clone made in China. Good luck getting parts for them. You can order a new engine, or a new carb, or a new recoil assembly, and maybe a new complete gasket set, but that's about it. We ran into that with a "MTD" engine last year. Instead of buying a $5 sump cover gasket, the customer ended up having to buy a $45 gasket set that they didn't need anything else from. That's a load of crap in my book.


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## wjjones (May 28, 2010)

Country Boy said:


> The hardware store/small engine dealer/repair shop I work for is currently being sold to a new owner. The new guy wants to expand our equipment lineup with some new brands. We currently sell Ariens lawn and garden equipment almost exclusively, but we want a cheaper brand for folks who just don't want to spend $700 on a walk behind mower. He asked me for some suggestions on brands for the store, but I'm just not sure. I have worked on Husqvarna/AYP brands (Poulan, Poulan Pro, Craftsman, Husqvarna, newer Murray, etc) and MTD brands (Yard Machines, Yard Man, White Outdoor, MTD, Cub Cadet, etc) and I really don't have much of a preference either way. Is there something that favors one company over the other? I dislike the cheaper brands myself due to all the troubles I have had to deal with because of weak materials, poor construction and bad designs, but we need something. We used to be a Lawn Boy dealer for almost 40 years until Toro decided that Lawn Boy would only be sold through Home Depot, and we were supposed to just fix them. That soured my boss to them because of all the years he had sold their product.
> 
> So Tractor Forum, if you were running a shop, what bargain brand of mower would you carry? Any particular reason for that choice? What brand would you avoid?


 The new Husqvarna tractors with the Fab decks seem to be good sellers, and have that commercial appeal for a cheaper price.. I have a Weedeater brand (Poulan) push mower for 6 years now, and it still runs like new.. I just bought a Briggs Brute it has Key start it can bag, throw, and mulch.. It is also self propelled it works pretty good...


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## Mickey (Aug 14, 2010)

I hear ya CB. Some mfgrs are a real pain to deal with which makes if hard on a customer and the dealer. *IF* you had to go with a brand where the Co is spotty about warranty and service, I'd sure let a potential customer know ahead of time. Customer would know and you're the good guys for informing them of potential problems down the road.

I do love the Do-It-Best trucks with the mural on the tail gate. For those that have not seen one, the mural looks like the tail gate is up and you can see all the merchandise loaded in the truck. Large regional dist warehouse was about 2 mi from the old place we moved from.


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## Bedford24 (Sep 28, 2011)

Country Boy - Simplicity bought Murray during the Bankruptcy - so now Briggs & Stratton has the Company back up and running - they make Push Mowers under the Brute Brand - some Walmarts sell them - as a dealership customers pay us to do the setups and predelivery on these units - If you already have a Briggs & Stratton Account check into seeing how to upgrade it to a Murray and Full Line B&S account so you can also capture the warranty work on the B&S engines of all other brands.


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## jhngardner367 (Apr 5, 2011)

In all the years I've been doing this work, I've never had a problem getting parts/warranty from MTD,OR Briggs. I had a horizontal engine throw a recoil,after 44 days,and they just sent me a replacement. No hassle,no problem. I just sent the old one back,and that was that. Last month,I got a call on a new (4 months old) Yardman rider,that kept throwing the drive belt.Found a bad pulley,and it was replaced at no charge.Again,no hassle. I'd be checking the rep,and see what HIS record is,towards problems!


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## sargentodd (Oct 3, 2011)

I have had a few Brutes in my shop and they are the same set up as the old murrys just with A LOT of ALUMINUM and plastics , no more cast iron like they used to be. My murry is from before when they murry stop production, and its still running strong.


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## Paul40 (May 29, 2011)

This has nothing to do with the original querry, but I've been buying Craftsman for some time. Hardly commercial quality, but the price reflects that. Extended warranties are available AT A PRICE, parts are readily available, again AT A PRICE. The push mower I'm using now is a self-propelled and has a Tecumseh engine. The deck completely rusted out, but the engine ran still ran like new. Managed to pick up the same mower at an auction for 5 bucks, with a "like new" deck, with an engine that had a hole in the side. Did a switch and still running strong. The cable that activated the drive on the original one had broken, and Sears wanted over $50 for it, but replacement deck had one on it, so didn't have to involve Sears. That, plus the rusting out, are the only problems I've encountered, and the engine is now 19 years old, not sure about the deck, but I did the switch in about '03 or '04.
I do change the oil pretty regularily, plugs when it takes more than 2 pulls, sharpen blade when needed. I do clean the underside more than I did on the first deck, and that appears to have paid off. This one has practically no rust. 
One thing I've never bothered with, against a lot of advice, is draining the gas in the fall, nor add a fuel stabilizer, and I've never had any problems with starting it in the spring. Go figure!!


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## Bedford24 (Sep 28, 2011)

Simplicity with the Murray LIne now also offers cheaper cometitive riding mowers "Made in the USA" that are the Same tractors as their high end line but with the original Murray Designed Decks. So you have smaller Push Mowers, Pressure Washers, etc. and addordable American Riders..

Here are the Tractors = Allis-Chalmers by Briggs & Stratton


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## Country Boy (Mar 18, 2010)

Bedford24 said:


> Country Boy - Simplicity bought Murray during the Bankruptcy - so now Briggs & Stratton has the Company back up and running - they make Push Mowers under the Brute Brand - some Walmarts sell them - as a dealership customers pay us to do the setups and predelivery on these units - If you already have a Briggs & Stratton Account check into seeing how to upgrade it to a Murray and Full Line B&S account so you can also capture the warranty work on the B&S engines of all other brands.


Simplicity bought the Murray patents, but Husqvarna got the name. I have gotten in several Murray mowers (tractors and push mowers) that have Husqvarna model numbers and the parts were found under the Husqvarna/AYP parts lookup. These are all post 2006 units.


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## Country Boy (Mar 18, 2010)

jhngardner367 said:


> In all the years I've been doing this work, I've never had a problem getting parts/warranty from MTD,OR Briggs. I had a horizontal engine throw a recoil,after 44 days,and they just sent me a replacement. No hassle,no problem. I just sent the old one back,and that was that. Last month,I got a call on a new (4 months old) Yardman rider,that kept throwing the drive belt.Found a bad pulley,and it was replaced at no charge.Again,no hassle. I'd be checking the rep,and see what HIS record is,towards problems!


It may have been because we were a dealer through the Do It Best store and not a full line dealer. The guy was an ass to deal with, so we stopped selling the stuff. That's also why we dropped our B&S dealership a few years back. We'd put in a yearly order that you had to do, and then the guy would add on a few hundred dollars in parts each time. The boss got sick of it and complained to the regional manager who basically said our rep could do what he felt was justified. So, the next time it happened the Boss told the guy to get out and never come back. We still get parts from the same place we did before, and we still work on them, but we are no longer warranty certified. Oddly enough, we still get some mailings from B&S like recall notices and some service bulletins, even though we aren't listed as a dealer anymore.


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## Gary Alford (Jun 18, 2010)

From my over 30 yrs Exp. you can't beat anything with a Honda engine, even the cheap ones, they have never failed us on construction equip. or lawn mowers.


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## Bedford24 (Sep 28, 2011)

Country Boy, AYP/Husqavarna are MTD family Products (Electrolux owned) they didn't Bankrupt the Murray Line til 2009 so that was why they were like that the link I gave shows a PURE American Made mower coming out of the American Murray Plants in Georgia - those Murray's you worked on didn't come out the Murray Plant because they were closed in early 2001 - Simplicity bought all the assets on the Court House steps opened the plant back up recalled all the employees and have done two additions since then - as far as your Briggs Rep - more than likely you didn;t realize it but your area has to go through a Distributor - unless you sign on with BASCO to carry their Mowers like Ferris, Snapper Pro, Simplicity which then you can get authorized to deal direct with Briggs & Stratton and skip the middle man and his parts markups on prices. If you ever need a Bill of Laden that shows these Lines are now a part of the Poulan/Weedeater made and shipped from China products I have one lamenated - that's why they are all sold in Chain Stores now. Good luck with Ariens - now sold at Home Depot - we are technically a Gravely Dealer but they are selling the Ariens at HD at the Dealer Cost.... No Gravely sitting on our showroom Floor - we support American Made - Ferris - Simplicity - STIHL (99.9% made part for part in Virginia since 1973)


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## Country Boy (Mar 18, 2010)

The Ariens units here at HD are selling at the promo list prices just like all the other dealers are. Ariens does make a few models that are HD specific, and they do sell cheaper than the regular Ariens units. We do have the advantage of having the Ariens Company 5 blocks away from our store, so we interact with people on the line, the people in management, and the tech folks on a regular basis (many live in the area and shop at our store). I know my boss was a bit ticked at the company a few times over the pricing levels and how some dealers were catered to whereas the smaller dealers got crapped on. That ended when, at least in our area, 15 of the 17 dealers that our rep deals with didn't place an order for lawn units one year. They had raised it to a $25,000 minimum order and were trying to push some models that don't sell well in our area. The next year, the minimum was lowered to $10,000 and there were only 3 levels of dealer pricing instead of 6. They seem to be selling more equipment since then...

I don't know where you get your info on the MTD and Husqvarna, but according to what I have found, MTD is a private, family owned company, whereas Husqvarna was owned by Electrolux, then spun off into a separate company in 2006.

Here's a link to the bio's on the companies.

MTD Products

Husqvarna AB


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## Bedford24 (Sep 28, 2011)

As far as ownership of the new Global Corporations - I don't rely on the companies themselves, google, or other sources, I research SEC/IRS they have searchable databasis' and according to them the Holding Parent Companies are in PRC - People's Republic of China - wiki is actually an open site even you can edit it's information... Since I have to file Petitions is Tax Court and Do Legal Work I have access to these documents - MTD is Listed as "MTD Importors - Limited" they changed their coporate name from "Machine Tool Die Company of Oklohoma" in like 1989. but I will dig up the Bill of laden and post it.... like I said why do you think they are in "Chains Stores" - Stihl Inc. isn't. Husqvarna didn't spin off it had they would still make Motorcross bikes - the New Holding Company violated Swedish Laws on different levels and the Holding Company sped up the Process of transfering the Machines used to manufacture to China - they are under investigation now for sending products to sit in European Ports now to claim made there.


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