# Ordered my JBJr and Bear LA - just like Willie's



## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Well I am happy to say I spoke with John last night, gave him my credit card info, and am super excitedly anticipating the arrival of my JBJr and my Bear linear actuator for the sleeve hitch.

Ordering was easy, I want the one like Willie's!
Thanks, Willie for doing so much of the ground work and engineering.

Can't wait ... toys toys TOYS!!!

SnowMower


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## Stewart (Sep 17, 2003)

To go with the weighted tires????


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Yup, to go with the weighted tires!:dazed: 

I have a question for those of you who added the rear actuator. What did you do for the rear top brackets. I saw the ones that Willie built. Would you be willing to share the specs so I can get some made up (I don't have access to a welder - nor should I).

thanks
SnowMower


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

snowmower,

"...just like Willie's..." will get you a little bit of the devil. You'll have lot's of fun, and get a lot of work done. And, then you'll start wishing for more traction, a little higher speed in reverse, and you'll wonder if there might be a more streamlined manner of designing the transmission lever gate.
If you're like me, you'll start wishing for, "......just like Simple John's....."
Of course, we already knew that if we had more money, or wanted to spend more, we wouldn't spend so much time on these forums. Well, I was just speaking for myself.
I didn't mean to depress you, I just wanted to make sure everyone realized you bought, and will enjoy, a more budget-minded tractor.......

:furious: :furious: :furious: :furious:


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

> then you'll start wishing for more


Wishing for more could get expensive. Willie, I have your ambition but not your talent to fabricate. 

So far, one very happy mower boy.

SnowMower


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## Topdj (Jun 9, 2004)

if you end up getting the older designed sleeve hitch this hidden actuator design works well, also leaves me with more adjustablity
speed or power settings enough to use it as a jack to lift both wheels off the ground.

http://www.tractorforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3939


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Topdj, that is sweet!!!

SnowMower.


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## Chris (Sep 15, 2003)

Remember to leave your deck on and don't use fluid or chains!
"Willie's Way" --- hahaha Just poking at you, Willie!   

Andy


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

As long as the wannabe and have-not tribes are unionizing, let's talk about our transgresions. Leave the deck on: it saves lots of time 'cause I can cut tall grass/weeds(grows like crazy when I'm not watching) and in the same breath do some work with the J-B Jr. The deck never conacts anything, it helps to add some weight(for traction) and it doesn't knock around due to the fact that the terrain is now smoother and my tractor doesn't go fast. Ya'll think it hurts something, but you don't really know that it does because you always took the precaution to remove it........convinced that it makes sense and therefore a good idea. It's called sensible, logical and smart thinking.
But alas, both of us can't possibly be right. I'm just wondering if anyone has ever killed a mowing deck???
On the other hand, the chains deserve a chance. I bought some(from Sears) and I will try them. I predict they'll help....up to the point where one tire begins to spin. And then, I'll start wishing for the differential lock all over again.
This almost assures that this forum will last many years. 

   :lucky: eace:


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Call it lazy or call it genious, I am with Willie on this. 

The parking lot I grade is pretty level already and the mower deck doesn't really see much abuse.

And, at the end of an evening, I just wanna load up onto the trailer and head out. 
I used to have a 4x8 trailer, but the deck was too wide. My best time was 20 minutes to pull the deck off, and then trying to lift it onto the trailer just was no fun at all.
Now I have a bigger trailer, and when I am done, I am gone.

Next project is to find some kind of self leveling grader blade I can put in place of the mower deck. Willie ... start your engine (well your engineering ). 

SnowMower


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## guest2 (Dec 27, 2003)

"I'm just wondering if anyone has ever killed a mowing deck???"

Most L&G tractors outlast the decks for one reason or another. Check any brand of tractor for sale on eBay and at least half if not more won't have a deck. Why? Because either they got bent beyond repair from banging into things, or they rusted out, or developed stress cracks. You can bang a deck out of shape just by cutting grass. Come a little to close to a tree trunk and get it hung up and it will bend either a mounting bracket or the shell. Get a little caught up on a fence post, or scrape along a concrete block border. It may not look bent but that doesn't mean it isn't. Let the grass cake up repeatedly underneth because it's too much of a PITA to remove and as the grass continues to hold moisture the deck will continue to rust until you either see holes or cracks. Ignore pulley,belt, and spindle maintenance and watch the deck develop stress cracks around the spindles. You really aren't helping anything or saving time by not removing the deck often. If for no other reason than to clean, maintain, and check for any unsafe conditions that would go unnoticed otherwise.


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

sixchows,
As you know, there's been plenty of forum members who have offerred their opinion on how short-lived my tractor will be. They've alluded to the low quality of my tractor, and how I have abused it. It almost makes me want to be inclined to believe that I'm right in the middle of a race to see which will wear out quicker, the tractor or the deck. It might turn out that the quality of both is well-matched, such that both will wear out at the same time.
I'm not going to engage in much specualtion. IMO I take good care of my equipment, and IMO both my tractor and its mowing deck will outlive me.
On second thought, I'll go ahead and speculate that the mowing deck on my tractor will outlast the transaxle and the steering pinion. But, this won't mean the end of the tractor because if I'm still around I'll just keep fixing and replacing stuff on my tractor. Rust damage is the last thing I'm concerned with. And, as long as I'm the only one who will be operating my tractor, I just don't think I'll be hitting anything. In any case, the longevity of my tractor is going to be interesting. Thanks


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## guest2 (Dec 27, 2003)

Willie
You asked a question. Has anyone killed a mower deck? My response was, yes many have. Just check out eBay like I said and you'll see what I'm talking about. You asked a general question, not one specifically directed at you. My answer was a general statement of fact, again not directed at you.


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

sixchows,
It was a worthless question. I already knew that there are people who can kill a Sherman tank. But, you answered a question I didn't ask, HOW do you kill a mower deck? Thanks


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## Greg (Sep 16, 2003)

Sixchows,

It's a worthless effort to discuss anything further with Willie and his deck. His mind is made up. No more reservations are being taken.....


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## memmurphy (Sep 18, 2003)

The deck on or off issue is like the synthetic or dino oil debate. Those who don't have fun with those that do and vice versa. Either way you could have a catastrophic failure that neither method would have prevented. eace: 

Mark


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

Yeah, if you're going to insist on messing around with those antique tractors, when everybody knows there's good modern tractors to be had,......WELL, there's just no need to discuss anything with you any further. And, if you're going to remove your deck for every little thing you do with the tractor,....WELL, you just can't belong to my religion.

---------------------------------------------

Seriously, there's some of us who can live with the fact that someone else has a different point of view. My point of view is that if/when I need the ground clearance, I'll remove the deck. Also, if I can detect that I'm punishing my mower deck, I'll remove it. If I had 2 tractors, like many of you do, one would NOT have a mower deck.

How's this for an olive branch, if I discover that you are right, I'll let you know, and I will apologize. I might be stubborn, but I'm not stupid stubborn.


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## guest2 (Dec 27, 2003)

For those who may "think" that all my tractors are antiques, here's a pic of one of my other "antiques". Sears craftsman GT 22HP Kohler v twin 6spd, 50" deck. Bought new in 2000 and working hard ever since. I remove the deck often to clean it and inspect it. Good advice, take it or leave it.


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## guest (Sep 16, 2003)

nothing wrong with an antique tractor anyway... If you can work on them and they run.. i think by todays standards... they are much more solid and better made than many of the newer ones...


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

Actually, the discussion is not about whether there's anything wrong with antiques. The discussion is more about whether Willie's tractor can ever achieve antique status.

NO, that's not it. The discussion was started by someone making reference to "....like Willie's....". Thanks for the flattery.

:truth:


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## guest2 (Dec 27, 2003)

Willie
ACTUALLY the discusion was about snowmower buying a JBJr. BUT for some reason you seem to have this notion that everything is about you and your situation when in fact it's not.

As for the longevity of your or any other AYP product, AYP will only admit to promising parts availabilty for 5 years. After that it's the luck of the draw.

AS for calling some of the other posters "wannabes" and "havenots" and adding the term "tribes" which many may find offensive, there really is no reason for this. 

I was going to let this slide and figured that after you post your usually me,me, me, response, the thread would move back to the subject at hand and snowmower's time to bask in the sun with his new "toy"

You really need to let others enjoy their experiences. By all means, feel free to offer tips based on your experience with your JBJr, but not at the expense of others. Members want to feel confident that when they post something, others will listen. If all threads related to working with ground engaging attachments are taken over and turned into your personal quest for traction and refusal to listen to those with years of experience, there will be fewer new posts as people become affraid of not being on par with the "Willies" When all is finished at your site and your new lawn is established I won't be suprised when your posts turn from traction issues to poor quality of cut issues.


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

sixchows,
All kidding aside, I've been testing the quality of cut all along. I help out the local church, and the other guys that also help tell me that this GTH2548 cuts grass just as good as their mowers. Sometimes we cut grass at the church 3 machines at a time. And, they have "quality" mowers. On the other hand, quality of cut is NOT something that I personally am picky about. I'd love to own a Prestige, but its quality of cut has nothing to do with it. In fact, if I were to buy a Prestige, I would consider buying it without a mowing deck(if the dealers give an honest dollar credit for the deck).
BTW I was including myself as a wannabe and a have-not. Apparently, you don't appreciate that kind of humor.
Yes, you are correct. Primarily, I'm here for my own personal gain.
It's educational and fun. If it stops being that, I'll move on.
Meantime, I will continue to share my own experiences. 
Yes, there's no substitute for experience, but in the end, if that experience doesn't help me......it doesn't help me. Hopefully, it'll help someone else. 
To be honest, I can't really relate to what you're saying. I know I don't get my feelings hurt if someone doesn't take me up on my suggestions. In fact, I don't even recommend anything. I just put out there for information's sake. I fully recognize it's a take it or leave it proposition. It looks like I'm not the only selfish person around here.


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## Ingersoll444 (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by simple_john _
> *nothing wrong with an antique tractor anyway... If you can work on them and they run.. i think by todays standards... they are much more solid and better made than many of the newer ones... *



They have to run????? THATS what I have been doing wrong!!!!!!!!


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Just got word from John that there is some problems getting my JBJr. across the border. Bless Free Trade. 
John assures me it will get here, but I will likely be his last Canadian customer. 

Sorry fellow Canucks. You'll have to build your own.

SnowMower


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## Topdj (Jun 9, 2004)

I can help there 
I have both deck lift and sleeve hitch actuators
plus I think I have the swisher all worked out


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## balmoralboy (May 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by snowmower _
> *Just got word from John that there is some problems getting my JBJr. across the border. Bless Free Trade.
> John assures me it will get here, but I will likely be his last Canadian customer.
> 
> ...


 Just so you know, it's not free trade that's the problem. It was a lot more paperwork to move machinery across the border prior to free trade. And if he's having a problem, it's probably because he wouldn't do the paperwork either honestly or, he has a reading comprehension problem! And it's still a lot harder to take it south than north. The southern guys' government doesn't believe in FREE Enterprise!


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Oh goodie!!!! As of 11:00am this morning, my JBJr is in Canada. Don't know if I will see it before the weekend, but I'm getting sweaty palms about setting her up (kind of like a first date).

I have a question. I purchased the linear actuator for the sleeve hitch. But I doubt it will buckle right up to my manual sleeve hitch. Willie made himself some VERY nice new brackets, but I am no where near that handy, nor do I own a welder.

I was looking at the plate in the picture for the craftman electric hitch, and would consider just buying that one piece. But I cannot seem to find the detailed parts list. Can anyone help? Or am I further ahead having a shop make one up for me?


Craftsman Electric Assist Kit 




thanks
SnowMower


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## Greg (Sep 16, 2003)

SnowMower,

PM or e.mail Wilie and ask him for copies of the drawings and mounting instructions for the parts he made. He should be happy to send them to you and help you finish your installation.


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## Topdj (Jun 9, 2004)

here's mine with the 10sh mount much stonger and has way more
adjustments, N O W E L D I N G!


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## Topdj (Jun 9, 2004)

took a little notch out with the saws all, didnt really need to but I
thought I had too


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## REDGT (Mar 26, 2004)

Hey Topdj...I have same hitch. Wanna put an actuator on it as you did, what actuator are you using, and how did you attatch it up in the tractor?


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## Topdj (Jun 9, 2004)

Im using 4 inch 500lb unit and your in luck cuz I can spare to sell one , I bought a box of them, I can measure the spot where I drilled the hole.


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

well my JBJr just arrived this morning and I'm thrilled.

I can see where John would not care to have any more Canadian customers, probably for the same reason I couldn't imagine trying this again.

Cost of JBJr with trip dump, and an extra actuator for the sleeve hitch
$1213 Canadian dollars = $933 US approx
Shipping
$ 411 Canadian dollar = $316 US approx.

So, in my hard earned dollars, I am $1624 Canadian (or $1249 US).

I can certainly appreciate the value of being able to rig something up with left over pieces around the yard. Yikes!!!mg: 

Here is hoping it is everything I imagined.

SnowMower


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Topdj, I don't think I can rig my sleeve hitch actuator up the way you did. Your hitch appears to be different than mine.

With the bucks I just spent, I've got to find a VERY cost effective solution.

 

SnowMower


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## Topdj (Jun 9, 2004)

so far I used 5 actuators,1 deck lift, 1 sleeve hitch , 2 for swisher bucket lift, 1 for the dump feature .
swisher bucket
800 bucks so far only thing I dont have is power steering


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

You can't get something for nothing(most of the time). In this case, you do NOT need to do the math. On the rear-mount sleeve hitch, if you want the 6 second speed, the required total vertical travel of the hitch, and the necessary force to pull the mouldboard plow out of the earth.........you're gonna need to buy at least a 1,200 lb 20:1 linear actuator(12vdc). The cost is $180 USA.


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## Topdj (Jun 9, 2004)

20;1 are great for sleeve hitches, but a pair of 10:1 work great for getting a bucket up quick plus with a 25% duty cycle you can over heat ones that take longer


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## Willie Nunez (Feb 25, 2004)

topdj,
You probably know all of this already, but.......here goes anyway.
Whenever you use 2 hydraulic actuators, one on each arm, it works OK because they're on a common hydraulic circuit and will therefore be synchronized. 
When you use 2 electric actuators, how do you synchronize them? How can you be sure one is not pulling more than the other, causing a torque force. Of course, I'm making assumptions here, since I haven't seen any detailed photos that show how you've mounted the twin actuators.


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## Topdj (Jun 9, 2004)

no problem with that they are screws with the same number of threads each, apply power at the same time and they move at the same rate, if one was trying to get ahead of the other the load would slow it down, I at this time have not see any problem yet. other than Im looking for stonger Actuators because I want to lift more, I have put 2 -80 lbs bags of sand in ther and the system works but sounds like its is straining, 
the closer you push these to the limit the shorter the duty cycle
I have not found a good single 1500lb 10" stroke on ebay yet, the 2-500lbs work ok but then again I didnt pay 200 for each either. 
Looks like the rain stopped and I have to actually MOW the lawn instead of treating this thing like a Tonka toy


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## Topdj (Jun 9, 2004)

here's something else I designed
its a jet ski lift using a Hyd cylinder
I just pull up at the ramp and drop her in, there is a safety
pin that keeps the weight off the cylinder. I made it so the
the thing can go down quite a bit into the water. always get looks when I show up at the water


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## Topdj (Jun 9, 2004)

diff view


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Finally got my JBJr and my rear linear actuator hooked up. Woo Hoo!
















<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/bwiswell/Tractor/Jam127.jpg">

SnowMower


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Here is the bracket I built for the rear actuator. It is made from the thickest shelf brackets I could find.

I do have some concerns about my set up. 
The gist of the problem is that the orientation of the actuator I received was 90 degrees off. In other words, the motor for the actuator is the side vs to the rear of the actuator.
What this means is that I had to space my brackets further apart to accomodate the extra width of the actuator.
I contacted Bear Linear to ask if I can rotate the actuator, and they said yes, gave me the details of how to do it, and then let me know that it voids my warranty. 










SM


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

The other problem with the brackets being spaced so far apart is that I cannot find a 1/2" solid rod long enough to span the gap. My solution was to use 1/2" threaded rod. I covered the rod with 3/4" pipe in order to make sure the actuator would not slide side to side on the threaded rod. Also because of the large span of the threaded rod, it tends to give and bend a little with the weight of the box scraper. Not ideal.

Also, the base of the actuator would not fit in the lower bracket of the sleeve hitch, I had to cantelever it to the side. Again, not my prefered method (nor recommended by Bear Linear), but the best I can do.

While I have a similar set up to Willie's, I am no Nunez the Fabricator.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/bwiswell/Tractor/Jam125.jpg">

SnowMower


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

OK, so here is a sample of the property I am "landscaping". In the picture, note the ant hill. The property is littered with these things, most being about 2 feet in diameter and up to 1 foot high. They were a buggar to get out as the ants built around the roots of the tall grass. But the JBJr did a fantastic job once I got the hang of it. So far, nothing but high praise for that product.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/bwiswell/Tractor/Ant_Hill.jpg">

SnowMower


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

And, as I mentioned, I was concerned about the threaded rod and the length in that it might bend in the middle. Here is what it looked like after my evening of knocking down ant hills and doing some minor landscaping. Note that I only used the box scraper a few times dragging light loads. Most of this bending is just a result of the weight of the box scraper itself as it bounced around the property. I've gotta come up with a better plan.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/bwiswell/Tractor/Post_Landscape_Bent_Actuator_Rod.jpg">

SnowMower


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

And lastly, here is my baby loaded up on the trailer. As you can see, she's a snug fit.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/bwiswell/Tractor/A_Tight_Fit.jpg">

You may also notice that the mower deck is still on. The reason being is two fold.
1. I wanted the extra weight.
2. I wanted to know where on the property I was getting hung up so that I knew where I needed to focus my attention.

Spent the better part of 3 hours 'playing' and had a ball. But if my wife asks ... "*sigh*, man that was a lot of work."  

SnowMower


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

Snowmower,
Threaded rod is a soft steel alloy that will bend easily as you have discovered. It needs to be soft to economically cut threads on it and probably contains a small amount of lead for lubricating properties during the machining process. Also a 1/2" dia. threaded rod is really only about 3/8" dia at the bottom of the thread. I would recommend using a stronger 3/4" dia. unthreaded steel rod and instead of threading the ends for nuts to hold it in place, drill each end for a spring hitch pin with a flat washer between the pin and bracket. I think you will notice a substantial increase in strength. You can move your brackets closer together to further increase the strength by reducing the length of the 3/4" rod.


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Thanks Joe.

Every one of your suggestions has gone through my mind, but there are a couple of limiting factors.

1. The mounting hole for the actuator is only 1/2" diameter, thereby limiting my rod size to that. But I do like the idea of a solid rod for the reasons you have listed.
2. Because the orientation of the actuator is wrong (motor to side, not to rear) I need the extra gap in my brackets to allow enough room. Mind you, I could probably get them about an inch closer together if I redrill some holes.

Tell me if this sounds crazy ...

I put (at least) 2 x 1/2" eye bolts drilled and mounted into the sleeve hitch plate. I then slide the rod through the eyelets. This would eliminate the rearward force put on the rod and also help with the downward weight.

And/or add a second rod on top of the first and secure it with clamps of some sort (like hose clamps). By using several, this would help with the downward weight anyway.

Perhaps a combo of the 2? Or am I further ahead trying to change the orientation of that actuator?

SnowMower


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

I redrilled the holes for the sleeve hitch actuator mounting brackets and managed to get the gap down to 8". I am using an 8" lag bolt now to hold everything in place. It is working much better than the threaded rod but is still developing a very slight bend under the weight. But all things being equal, it is a big improvement.

SnowMower


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

All I can suggest as an improvement is replace your 8" bolt with a grade 8 machine bolt for the toughness of the alloy used to reduce the bending. A 9" or 10" long 1//2" dia grade 8 machine bolt is gonna be hard to find, probably have to order it special and it might cost $10-15 as a guess, but it is the toughest metal rod I can think of to use in your application. Drill rod is harder, but will be brittle under the load your set up has, not a good thing to have shatter while working.

McMaster Carr is a possible source for the grade 8 bolt.
http://www.mcmaster.com/

I am wrong on my price guess, they are listed at $7.81 each, see part number: 91257A742

I can't seem to link to the part, but the number above is good.


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Thanks Joe, that is great advice.

Believe it or not, I managed to find grade 5 bolts up to 6 inches long at HD on the shelf. Just a little shy of what I needed. I will definitely look into the grade 8 bolt.

SnowMower


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## bontai Joe (Sep 16, 2003)

Snowmower and Willie,
Since you guys are always looking to get the maximum out of your tractors, have you checked out the new sponsor, Payne's Forks? I think you guys could get a pair of the light duty forks and have fork lift capability. The clamp on ball hitch looks interesting, too. It is a lot easier to push a trailer into place than backing one up. What do you think?


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Neat!!!! I want some. 
Now I have to drink more beer so I can cash in my empties to buy some. A vicious circle indeed.

SnowMower


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## guest (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by snowmower _
> *Neat!!!! I want some.
> Now I have to drink more beer so I can cash in my empties to buy some. A vicious circle indeed.
> 
> SnowMower *


Interesting sm.. using your logic.
i need about 1000$ for the johny bucket... at 5 cents per empty.. i need to drink 833 cases of beer before spring... I hope the johnny bucket is strong enough to be able to pick up my liver... :furious:


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## jodyand (Sep 16, 2003)

snowmower how is the JB working are you still using it or are you caught up with everything.


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

JBJr is working fantastic. I am using to it haul gravel for the parking lot and dirt to fill in the many rough areas on the property. Only wish I had the power dump. When you fill that bucket, it can get pretty hard to trip. If anyone is considering purchasing one, spend the money up front for power dump, you'll be glad you did.

I did do a bad thing though. I had just dropped all of the gravel along the areas I needed to grade the parking lot. So, I was dragging the box scrapper, looking behind me to make sure everything was going smooth. And then I hit a portable with tractor, right on the corner of the Johnny Bucket. Tractor came to a screaching halt and the bucket appeared to be leaning to one side. I grabbed it, gave her a good tug, and everything seems to be lined up again. Haven't seen any obvious damage, but it couldn't have been good for the DGT6K.
NOTE: The JBJr is not intended to be used as a bumper.

One very satisfied customer so far.

SnowMower


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## snowmower (May 19, 2004)

Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention.

I remember Willie getting a hard time about using his JBJrs with the mower deck on. I do the same.

But, conversely, I keep the JBJr on while I mow the property. Can make turning a little heavy at times, but, whenever I get hung up on a rough spot, I run back to the dirt pile, fill the bucket, and then drop it where I got stuck. Pretty handy.

SnowMower


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## guest (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by snowmower _
> * I get hung up on a rough spot, I run back to the dirt pile, fill the bucket
> SnowMower *


sm
do you need to use the box scraper to level the fill or loam off? is there enough downward pressure so that you could sort of back scrape the loam (with the bucket) to make it level?


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