# Ford C5011F won't turn over, yr approx 1969



## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

Dear old dad kicked the bucket a year or two ago, and this summer I couldn't get the old backhoe to turn over. No clicking noise, nothing happens when I turn the key. Is there any chance the battery just isn't powerful enough to even activate the starter? I've replaced the battery with a brand new one but I don't know if the car battery I bought is good enough or what.

Once in a blue moon of me messing with it, it cranked the starter properly and everything. Bad key switch? The battery gauge only goes up to around 1/2 when I leave the key on for a minute or so, could charge the battery and get it up higher but it hasn't helped the last 3 times I've done that.

First image I found online of a very similar machine, second image is the one behind my barn. Any and all help is appreciated.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

The Ford Model C5011F is the production code for a Ford 3500 Industrial tractor, diesel engine, no PTO, 4x4 Torque Converter transmission, auto reversing. Your tractor is a Ford 3500 TLB (tractor/Loader/backhoe).

An auto battery will probably crank it for a while. Bypass the transmission neutral safety switch.... frequent source of cranking problems. There should be two wires coming out of the top of the transmission. Pull the cowling under the steering column and there should be connectors for these two safety switch wires. Connect them together on the engine side. Your transmission neutral safety switch may be attached to the shift linkage, rather than inside the transmission. 

Also, clean your battery ground connection to the chassis.

Also, you should be able to jumper the solenoid with a screwdriver and get it to crank (make damn sure the tranny is in neutral so you don't get run over while doing this)


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

I wonder what these wires go to. I hope the yellow one isn't too important I have two pieces of it not connected together. The third wire there coming down from the dashboard has me a little worried though.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Wiring like that causes fires. Disconnect the battery whenever you aren't with the tractor.


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

Any chance those two wires coming out near where the shifter is are the transmission neutral safety switch wires?

I connected them together in a loop on both sides of the push-plugs, no change.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

That's the neutral safety switch wires. So that didn't help. Try jumpering power to the solenoid to see if it will crank.


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## DNL (Mar 20, 2020)

it's also possible that if the battery was to low that the starter engaged and it is now stuck


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## DNL (Mar 20, 2020)

put tractor in gear and try to rock it back and forth some that can sometimes release the stuck drive


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

I put a screwdriver across the solenoid and it spun the motor on the back there, didn't crank. Might be a low battery, it's been sitting for a while with a new battery in it. Anything I should know about the key switch? It turns on the red light on the dash but don't know if it's working when I try to start it.


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

DNL said:


> put tractor in gear and try to rock it back and forth some that can sometimes release the stuck drive


What would that do that crossing the wires didn't? It also has a bucket and a backhoe attachment sitting on the ground that would make that a pretty big chore.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

If you jumped power to the solenoid and the starter spun but didn't engage, could be a low battery. Charge the battery and try again. Your tractor takes a 4DLT tractor battery. I get my batteries at Tractor Supply. The bigger battery provides a lot more starting power.

First, we have to prove that the starter is OK, then we move on to the key switch.


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

O'reilly doesn't open until 7:30 but they have a 4DLT in stock. I need another car battery anyway.


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

Ok I've got the giant battery installed, same trouble though. I am shorting across the leads on the smaller cylindrical box on top of the larger one, is that the right way to do it? It doesn't spin the bottom bigger motor to actually crank the tractor over.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Jumper from the large battery cable connection on the solenoid to the small inlet (spade) connection of the solenoid. If the starter cranks, try the keyswitch.


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

BigT said:


> Jumper from the large battery cable connection on the solenoid to the small inlet connection of the solenoid.


Well what happened was lots of sparks and a poor man's attempt at arc welding.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Repair any wire or wires you may have damaged. In the upper left hand corner of your first picture I think I can see the solenoid (spade) connector that you should jump to. Its back behind and to the left of the battery cable connection in that picture. Do you see it?


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

OH.. So the one with the green wire on it to the one behind it?


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Yep. It's a small spade connector. Fix any wiring damage first.


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

Well that didn't do anything. If anyone wants to buy an as-is backhoe let me know.


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

"Small spade connector" that got me thinking when I saw this picture:







So I went and looked again and sure enough there is a small spade connector black as night covered in years of oil or grease or something. Got it to crank over, now I just need three hands to work the throttle too.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Try your key switch. It may work with this new battery.


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

Already tried the key switch, no dice. It will run for a few seconds if I give it a shot of starting fluid but I hear that's bad for them. I'm draining the diesel to put some fresh stuff in. The diesel in it is probably 3+ years old at this point.


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

Well I am mystified now, the key works after sitting for a while. Still won't run without some starting fluid though. Is there anything I can add to a tank of diesel to boost the octane like on gasoline?


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Change the fuel filter. Then follow this procedure.

DIESEL/AIR PURGING PROCEDURE

Start at the fuel outlet of the tank (inlet to the filter). Shut the tank valve, remove the line at the filter inlet and holding a suitable container to catch the diesel fuel, open the valve. You should have a CONTINUOUS rush/flow of fuel out of the line. If it dribbles or is intermittent, check the fuel cap for a blockage of the fuel vent. Ford tractors have a strainer/screen attached to the shut-off valve, and positioned up inside the tank. If you have a trickle flow from the tank, you will have to drain the tank and clean the screen. (If you blow it out with air, remove the tank's filler cap to prevent pressure damage to the tank).

If you have good fuel flow at that point, reconnect the line and open the bleeder screw at the top of the filter. Turn on the tank valve and wait till you have a steady flow of fuel with no bubbles at the top of the filter, then close the bleeder screw.

Loosen the inlet connection at the injection pump and purge air at that point. (If you have a bleeder screw on your injection pump, and you KNOW which screw it is, you can bleed through it, but do not open any screw on the pump without knowing what it does).

Go back and make sure ALL the fittings in the fuel delivery system are tight so they cannot suck air.

Make sure the battery is fully charged. Loosen the fuel fittings at the injectors, either one at a time or all at once. Crank the engine till you see all fuel at the injector fittings and then tighten the fittings. If you do individual fittings, the engine will usually start before you get to the last fitting.

Your injection pump puts out a very small amount of fuel (high pressure/low volume). BE PATIENT. If the lines are totally empty, it takes a lot of cranking to fill them up. Give your starter a rest to cool off after steady cranking every 15 seconds.


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

BigT said:


> Loosen the inlet connection at the injection pump and purge air at that point. (If you have a bleeder screw on your injection pump, and you KNOW which screw it is, you can bleed through it, but do not open any screw on the pump without knowing what it does).


Ehh I don't really know where the injection pump is located. What happens if I just keep cranking it with the key?


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## pogobill (Jan 31, 2012)

There should be lines running from the cylinders back to the pump... should be pretty easy to find, I would think.








Three fuel lines running into the top of it. I would bet that that would be the fuel filter, the white canister, to the right.


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## BigT (Sep 15, 2014)

Have you changed the fuel filter? There's a bleed screw on top of the fuel filter. Have you bled air out of the filter?

Skip the step involving the injection pump.

Slide out the battery tray. Underneath you will see 3 injectors with fuel lines connected to them. Use a 5/8" wrench to crack open the injector connections, just enough to allow diesel fuel to leak out as you are cranking the engine.

Crank the engine in 10-15 second intervals, then allow the starter to cool off. Watch for fuel coming out of the injector connections while you are cranking. If there are air bubbles in the fuel coming out, it will not start. When you feel that you have fuel with no air bubbles coming out tighten the connections and see if it will start. A little whiff of ether might help it get started.


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## ctaylor90 (Aug 9, 2020)

Who makes a fuel filter that will work? I think I would prefer to order it rather than run to the store at the moment.


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## redneck1952 (Apr 12, 2020)

I buy filters for my John Deere at O'Rielys Auto Parts. If you have one, check there.


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

ctaylor90 said:


> Ehh I don't really know where the injection pump is located. What happens if I just keep cranking it with the key?


You have a CAV DPA injection pump. You see it in front of the filter.
On the pump there is a stop lever (shut off lever) that normally is controlled by the stop knob on the dash. When you pull that knob out, the cable pulls the stop lever backwards and the pump stops delivering fuel, the engine stops. In order to be able to start the engine you need to push the knob fully in, and the cable pushes the stop lever fully forward, then the pump can deliver fuel.

Your stop cable is not attached to the stop lever, so pulling/pushing the knob does nothing. You need to push the stop lever on the pump by hand. Clean the top of the pump and push the stop lever forward against it's stop, and try to start.


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## Hacke (Feb 22, 2011)

ctaylor90 said:


> Who makes a fuel filter that will work? I think I would prefer to order it rather than run to the store at the moment.


Lots of brands has that filter. Search for CAV 296, or go by your tractor model (Ford 3500 Industrial).
Where do you want to order it from?

Remove the old gasket from the filter head and put in the new one there. Not on the filter.


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## Steve600 (Mar 25, 2019)

And this is why I limit my kids video gaming......... your Dad must be laughing.


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## John Liebermann (Sep 17, 2018)

CTaylor with your knowledge level what I would do is get a mechanic to work on this problem with your help and then you can observe and pick up knowledge. 

BTW, I hope my kids are a little more respectful when I pass on.


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