# Break in Oil in JD 5205 MFWD



## Kenny (Jun 11, 2004)

I've been reading your guys posts about break in oil in John Deere Tractors. Is this a special oil they put in at the factory? I know it is suppose to be changed at 50 hrs, however I am a real fanatic about oil changes and I would like to change my oil now at 27 hrs. I went to my dealer to get some break in oil and he said it does not have a "special" break in oil in the tractor and to just go with a new oil filter and diesel JD oil. Was I reading your posts wrong? Also, do diesel engines take a different radiator coolant than gas engines? I have been trying to learn as much as possible from you guys about these tractors. This is the first diesel I have owned. Thanks..


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## psrumors (Apr 25, 2004)

Kenny, yes, there is a "break in" oil. It mentions this in the owners manual and it is not the same oil. Your dealer should have this in stock. If not find it somewhere else.

It is ok to change the oil at 27 hrs but you must run the break in oil for at least 50 hours. I have heard some say 100 but the owners manual on my 4410 states 50 and I try to go by the book.

Any good green anti-freeze that meets JD's specifications is ok. Generally the Prestone does, I have not checked mine to see yet.


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## GreenMtnMan (Jan 9, 2004)

My JD dealer has JD branded break-in oil on the shelf. The label literally says "Break-in Oil" in big letters on the jug.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Kenny, I would suggest leaving the current oil in the engine for the full 50 hows or at least until 35 hours. If you change it a 27 hours, you should put break in oil back in it but it is not absolutely required. In the event that the rings and other components are not fully seated and broken in, changing to new oil could possibly lengthen the break-in process. I ran the oil in my 4410 for the full 50 hours and then changed to Deere 15W-40 Plus 50. 

Yes, diesel engines require an anti-freeze/coolant that formulated especially for diesel engines. You can go with the Deere pre-mix or Walmart normally has the Shell Rotella brand anti-freeze for diesel engines. If you choose not to go with the pre-mix anti-freeze; be sure to dilute the anti-freeze with distilled water as tap (especially well water) has minerals in it that can cause corrosion issues later on down the road. Deere make anti-freeze test strips to periodically check the pH and additive strength in the coolant but I believe they recommend you replace the coolant every 2 years. The test strips cost almost as much as new cooland so it is a coin flip. 

In a nut shell, follow the operators manual and you won't be wrong. 

How is that 5205 working for you? Nice machine. :thumbsup:


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## Kenny (Jun 11, 2004)

Chief: My dealer is confusing the heck out of me then. Because I distintcly remember him telling me that the tractor did not have break in oil in the engine. I went to him a couple of weeks after I bought it, to buy oil for it. He sold me a case of the plus oil and told me the tractor DID NOT have break in oil in it. I did not think anything of it, because I did not get the owners yet, because the tractor was a transfer from a different store. (Iv'e never heard of a specific break in oil in an engine.) I just recently got the owners manual ( at least a month after purchase, and I still do not have one for the FEL). The delivery guy went over the tractor pretty thoroughly when it was delivered to the farm. After reading it today, I went to the dealer and asked the parts guy for break in oil. He kinda looked at me like I was crazy, went back to service and talked to one of the guys back there. The service guy came out and told me there was absolutely no difference in the plus oil and the break in oil and also there was no difference in the radiator coolant than what is in a car gas engine. He just said make sure you donut mix the red stuff with the green stuff. Now I am kinda worried. Would my 5205 come from the factory w/o break in oil? I certainly don't think so. And I'm almost sure that they would have told me if they changed the oil in it. I know when I got it, it had approx. 5 hrs on it. Also is it normal to smoke for about 1-2 mins at start up after sitting for a couple of weeks? Otherwise it runs and performs perfectly. This sucks because my salesman (one of the owners) will not be back in the office until Monday. Tell me I'm just getting paranoid now. I don't think these guys have a clue about this tractor. They have two businesses they operate out of. One in the middle of town(where I bought) where they mostly sell garden and lawn tractors and maybe a few compacts and one out in the "country" where they probably sell more utility tractors. I guess I'll have to get on the phone and call the other store.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

I thought Deere used to have this manual on line but I guess not or they changed it.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Here is the Deere "poop" on their anti-freeze. 

John Deere Cool-Gard™ 

The mechanic at the Deere dealer is not on his game. You can use regular automotive coolant in a diesel and pay the price later. There IS also a difference between break in old and the Plus 50. 


Plus-50™ 15W-40 Engine Oil 

Plus-50™ 15W-40 Engine Oil Tests 


John Deere Break-In Oil  

Competitive Comparisons  

Buy the Shell Rotella diesel cooland and you should be fine. The oil is not that big of a deal although I would run it a few more hours. The Deere 15W-40 Plus 50 will do just fine. That is what I use in my 4410 and Cummins diesel. 

The smoking for the first few minutes is normal. Mine does the same thing for the first few minutes until it warms up. (a very light grey blue smoke) It is due to incomplete combustion while the engine is running cold. It cleans up once the engine has reached operating temp.

Bottom line? Use any good diesel oil AND diesel coolant in a diesel. Don't cut corners. You can buy Shell Rotella T oil and coolant at Walmart for a bargain price and it is good stuff. The Deere oil is good stuff too. The oil is made by Chevron for Deere. The coolant is made by Northland Products. Follow what the owner's manual says and you will be fine. The dealer should have given you one before you took your tractor home. Shame on him.


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## MowHoward2210 (Nov 2, 2003)

There has always been conflicting info on the breakin oil requirements on JD (and Yanmar) diesels. Anywhere from 5 to 200 hours is what I have heard! I had a salesman talk me into straight 30 wt at my 50 hr interval, because he said that is what they have always run in their small diesels. Around the 100 hr interval, I was across the state, and stopped in at another dealer to look around. He said nobody around there ran 30 wt, they used multi viscosities. So I switched over to Plus-50 15-40.

Lets not even get into Regular or Low-viscosity Hy-Gard HST!


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## waynl (Jun 2, 2004)

Kenny,
I would be certain that Deere shipped that tractor with break-in oil in the crankcase. I definitely would NOT change the oil anytime before the 50 hours is up. It takes time to seat the rings and IMO 50 hours is a bit short, I like 100 hours. Leaving the oil in there helps the rings and cylinder walls to "polish" themselves to mate to each other. And some smoking is OK during this period, but it should not smoke excessively, especially after warmup. I think it might be a case where your dealer does little in the way of rebuilding engines and therefore has little need to stock the break-in oil.

But I will disagree with Chief somewhat on the antifreeze issue. Any good antifreeze will work well. I have never had a problem that could be attributed to the antifreeze that I use in my tractors, and I have put many thousands of hours on them. The main thing is, like Chief said, is to change it every other year. Otherwise there will be an accumulation of acids in the coolant and pitting will start to occur on the interior parts of the engine.

waynl


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

Here is an excurpt from an anti-freeze coolant recyling article that give a good summation of why standard automobile coolant and diesel/heavy duty coolants are different and why they must be used for their particular applications fromt the folks at Peak Anti-Freeze:

Standard engine coolants come in three main types, automobile, heavy-duty and universal. The main difference in these coolant types is the level of aluminum corrosion protection they provide. In conventional coolants the addition of silicates provides this protection. An antifreeze designed strictly for automotive use is high in silicate, while a strictly heavy-duty antifreeze contains low silicate. A universal antifreeze meets the needs of both automotive and heavy-duty applications. Universal formulations contain enough silicate to give proper aluminum protection, but keep the silicate level low enough for heavy-duty applications. All antifreezes made by Old World Industries are universal formulations. When used in heavy-duty applications, universal formulations require the addition of supplemental coolant additives (SCAs). SCAs provide the increased protection required for heavy-duty engines. This pamphlet will detail the reasons for needing SCAs in a heavy-duty coolant.

To improve heat transfer and aid in serviceability, many heavy-duty engines incorporate wet sleeve liners. Under the extreme stress of heavy-duty engine operation these liners vibrate. This vibration creates air bubbles that implode against the liners’ outer surface. This action, called cavitation, quickly causes pitting that can damage or destroy the wet sleeve liner. Because of this problem, heavy-duty coolants must contain a special nitrite inhibitor, extra defoamer and buffers. These compounds come in a separate SCA. In addition, the SCA introduces a scale inhibitor that prevents the formation of surface deposits in the cooling system. Surface deposits reduce heat transfer and increase boil over potential.

In heavy-duty applications, maintaining a proper maintenance schedule for adding SCAs is equally important as adding the correct initial supplemental additive. Over time, inhibitors deplete and require replacement for proper protection. Generally maintenance SCA additions are every 200 service hours or 15,000 miles (consult individual manufacturers for exact recommendations). The point at which to add a maintenance SCA is determined by test kits made available from the additive suppliers.

Deere Power Tech engines use wet liners and thus a heavy duty coolant should be used. You can get by with automotive or universal type coolants but run the risk of possible unneccessay pitting and corrosion. The price difference between the two types of coolant is not that great and my opinion, over the long run of the service life of the tractor engine; a much greater longevity will be attained.


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## Kenny (Jun 11, 2004)

Thanks for info guys. I went to the dealer with the intention of buying break in oil to change the break in oil w/ break in oil. (I'm kinda of wierd like that) My impression is that these guys never heard of break in oil and had never heard of putting a diesel coolant in the radiator. I think I'll just leave in the oil I have in there, and worry about it at 50 Hrs. However I would like to change it (w/ break in oil) at 50 hrs and leave that in there until 100 hrs. I'll try their other store. Also I did pick up some summer formula fuel additive. Gonna get some more seat time today. I'm definately "sneaking" out of work a couple hrs early.


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## Dakota Farm (Aug 20, 2004)

Find yourself a different parts guy....I sold JD for 15 years and like others have posted the bucket clearly states "Break In" oil. If you put JD +50 in a brand new motor you will have serious blow-by and end up using break in oil. :dazed:


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## Dakota Farm (Aug 20, 2004)

As far as antifreeze goes, for a diesel engine make sure you use a low-silicate antifreeze or over a period of time you will develop sludge at the bottom of the radiator which reduce flow and lead to overheating. Don't just buy Prestone at Walmart and dump it in a tractor, especially something as new as a 5205. Remember, you pay a little extra for a JD, don't be stingy when it comes to paying extra to maintain it.


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## Chipmaker (Sep 16, 2003)

I dunno about break in oil. Is it really a special oil or is it just a hype today with the same oil being packaged in a container saying its special for break in just so they can sell more oil. When I bought my Ford 1720, my JD180, the GX335 and all of my vehicles I always asked about special oil during breakin and have always been told the smae thing over and over..Use what oil you intend to utilize in the engine, that there really is no such thing as breeak in oil anymore due to the way engines are made to more exacting tolerances, and the materials they are made from they do not have break in oil like in the old days. From what I understand the manufactuers use a high quality oil of the thinnest viscosity in these engines when they ship them. If the viscosity needs to be higher in a certain area the dealer will change it to suit before the machine is sold.

Its more like the Walmart Tech 2000 oil actually being a repackaged major petroleum makers oil etc, and its just in the packaging........ So I myself am skeptical in todays world on weather there really is a special need or a special oil that controls actual breakin of engines. To me as long as there is oil that meets the specs of the manuf, and you watch the loads imparted on the engine and the speeds and temps its operated at
is the key to engine breakin..........essentially follow the operators manual. Just looking at any of my manuals there is absolutely no mention of break in oils listed anywhere.........just a process of breaking in the engine itself. While I know a B & S or Honda etc engine is a far cry from a diesel or other engine, allthe engines I have bought new that I had to put in oil initially, came with the same oil thats stocked on most dealers shelfs, and not listed as breakin oil, or a spec on the oil was given and you bought that spec in your preferred brand. The manual for my GMC truck simply states to use spec'd oil.....same for my friends Duramax diesel chevy......and he was told the same thing at the dealer, there is no bvreakin oil used today its the same oil that is available anywhere, and to use the spec oil as listed in the manual.......So is it a marketing ploy or fact, I dunno.

Just my take on breakin oils.


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

*What Deere says about break in oils*

Engine Oil
Use the appropriate oil viscosity based on the expected air
temperature range during the period between
recommended oil changes. Operating outside of these
recommended oil air temperature ranges may cause
premature engine failure.
The following John Deere oil is PREFERRED:

• TORQ–GARD SUPREME®—SAE 5W-30;

• PLUS–50 —SAE 15W-40;
Engine Break–in Oil
The following John Deere oil is PREFERRED:

• BREAK–IN ENGINE OIL.
John Deere BREAK–IN ENGINE OIL is formulated with
special additives for aluminum and cast iron type engines
to allow the power cylinder components (pistons, rings, and
liners as well) to “wear-in” while protecting other engine
components, valve train and gears, from abnormal wear.
Engine rebuild instructions should be followed closely to
determine if special requirements are necessary.
John Deere BREAK–IN ENGINE OIL is also recommended
for non-John Deere engines, both aluminum and cast iron
types.

The following John Deere oil is also recommended as a
break-in engine oil:

• TORQ–GARD SUPREME®—SAE 5W-30.

If the above recommended John Deere oils are not
available, use a break-in engine oil meeting the following
specification during the first 5 hours (maximum) of
operation:

• SAE 5W-30—API Service Classification SE or higher.

IMPORTANT: Avoid damage! ONLY use a quality
break-in oil in rebuilt or remanufactured engines
for the first 5 hours (maximum) of operation. DO
NOT use oils with heavier viscosity weights than
SAE 5W-30 or oils meeting specifications API SG
or SH, these oils will not allow rebuilt or
remanufactured engines to break-in properly.
IMPORTANT: Avoid damage! After the break-in
period, use the John Deere oil that is
recommended for this engine.


This is taken from (TM1985) 4210,4310,4410 Technical Manual dated Decemeber of 2002


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## Live Oak (Dec 22, 2003)

*What Deere says about cooland*

SPECIFICATIONS & INFORMATION COOLANT SPECIFICATIONS
John Deere Dealers: You may want to cross-reference the
following publications to recommend the proper oil for your
customers:

• Module DX,ENOIL2 in JDS–G135;

• Section 530, Lubricants & Hydraulics, of the John Deere
Merchandise Sales Guide;

• Lubrication Sales Manual PI7032.

Coolant Specifications
Engine Coolant

The engine cooling system, when filled with a proper
dilution mixture of anti-freeze and deionized or distilled
water, provides year-round protection against corrosion,
cylinder or liner pitting, and winter freeze protection down
to –37°C (–34°F).
The following John Deere coolant is PREFERRED:

• PRE-DILUTED DIESEL ENGINE ANTI-FREEZE/
SUMMER COOLANT™ (TY16036).

This coolant satisfies specifications for “Automobile and
Light Duty Engine Service” and is safe for use in John
Deere Lawn and Grounds Care/Golf and Turf Division
equipment, including aluminum block gasoline engines and
cooling systems.

The above preferred pre-diluted anti-freeze provides:
• adequate heat transfer
• corrosion-resistant chemicals for the cooling system
• compatibility with cooling system hose and seal material
• protection during extreme cold and extreme hot weather
operations
• chemically pure water for better service life
• compliance with ASTM D4656 (JDM H24C2)
specifications

If above preferred pre-diluted coolant is not available, the
following John Deere concentrate is recommended:

• DIESEL ENGINE ANTI-FREEZE/SUMMER COOLANT
CONCENTRATE™ (TY16034).

If either of above recommended engine coolants are not
available use any Automobile and Light Duty Engine
Service ethylene glycol base coolant, meeting the
following specification:

• ASTM D3306 (JDM H24C1).

Read container label completely before using and follow
instructions as stated.

Mix 50 percent anti-freeze concentrate with 50 percent
distilled or deionized water. This mixture and the prediluted
mixture (TY16036) will protect the cooling system down to
–37°C (–34°F) and up to 108°C (226°F).

Certain geographical areas may require lower air
temperature protection. See the label on your anti-freeze
container or consult your John Deere dealer to obtain the
latest information and recommendations.

Engine Coolant Drain Interval
When using John Deere Pre-Diluted (TY16036)
Automobile and Light Duty Engine Service coolants, drain
and flush the cooling system and refill with fresh coolant
mixture every 36 months or 3,000 hours of operation,
whichever comes first.

When using John Deere Concentrate (TY16034)
Automobile and Light Duty Engine Service coolants, drain
and flush the cooling system and refill with fresh coolant
mixture every 24 months or 2,000 hours of operation,
whichever comes first.

If above John Deere Automobile and Light Duty Engine
Service coolants are not being used, drain, flush, and refill
the cooling system according to instructions found on
product container or in equipment operator’s manual or
technical manual.

IMPORTANT: Avoid damage! To prevent engine
damage, DO NOT use pure anti-freeze or less
than a 50% anti-freeze mixture in the cooling
system. 

DO NOT mix or add any additives/
conditioners to the cooling system in Lawn and
Grounds Care/Golf and Turf Division equipment.
Water used to dilute engine coolant concentrate
must be of high quality—clean, clear, potable
water (low in chloride and hardness—Table 1) is
generally acceptable. 

DO NOT use salt water.
Deionized or distilled water is ideal to use.

Coolant that is not mixed to these specified levels
and water purity can cause excessive scale,
sludge deposits, and increased corrosion
potential.

Property Requirements
Total Solids, Maximum 340 ppm (20 grns/gal)
Total Hardness, Max. 170 ppm (10 grns/gal)
Chloride (as Cl), Max. 40 ppm (2.5 grns/gal)
Sulfate (as SO4), Max. 100 ppm (5.8 grns/gal)



Bear in mind that these are general recommendations and you should follow what is specifically spelled out in the particular Operator's Manual for your piece of equipment.


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## Chipmaker (Sep 16, 2003)

The part about non-JD engines........seems to say that they will gladly sell you their oil tobreak these engines in, even if the manufacturers of those engines never mention break in oil. Just a light viscosty suitable for air temps in the region its used in. And if break in oil is not available a light 5-30 weight oil is suitable......

So that tells me I can use reg oil of proper grade...
Breakin oil matters not.......
Use light viscosity oil only for 5 hours initially.........but it does not necessarily mean the engine in fact has a break in oil in it either.

I can not see how any oil is going to just allow certain parts to ear and not others during the break in process. IMHO, light viscosity oil is needed to ensure oil flows freely and washes out any manufactuers residue for a period of time, (short period of time) and during that time no heavy loads should be applied, until parts all wear in and get seated.......which it is going to do with reg oil anyhow.......as no oil is virtually wear proof. 

If indeed some engines had a true breakin oil and stated to change it at 5 hours or x miles etc, why would some manufacturers say drive it normally without heavy loads, and vary rpms, and change it at a later time. It does not really mean because it has an oil that is not designed for susutained operation it means it has an oil in it that will provide lube suitable for flushing out debri etc and maintain a safe level of operation.....I still do not buy the break in oil concept.

As for anti freeze, I agree 110%. Diesels can cause cavitation in the coolant around the cylinders (liners), and a special anti freeze is needed to eliminate this, so there is not hot spots created where air is trapped by cavitation. Also some coolants tend to from strange compounds, and cause corrosion to various metals under different circumstances.The fact that cavitation makes air pockets and bubbles is also an invite for corrosion as it takes air in the cooling system to start the corrosion process. GM found this out with their Dex Cool, that got such a bad rap on causing a jelling of coolant and such. Folks just would not keep their fingers off the radiators pressure cap, and old timers used to filling a radiator as well as others always had to open the cap for a look see, instead of topping off the system by way of the resivoir. Even impropper filling of a system that was drained for a coolant change if done improperly will make Dex cool go sour. Its just ot Dex cool as lots of other makers of anit freeze or coolants provided this. Diesel engines are a totally different beast than the typical gas burner is when it comes to coolant requirements.


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## GreenMtnMan (Jan 9, 2004)

I would never presume to know more about motor oils than the JD engineers, and since you only need it for 50-100 hours and since it comes in the engine from the factory, why not just use it?


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## Chipmaker (Sep 16, 2003)

Call me paranoid but how do you actually know its not a deal between marketing and engineering.......since a light weight oil is used usually, therfore a lightweight oil could be classed as a break in oil........and worded right make it sound like its a special concoction of special additives. What I would like to see is a printout of actual difference between the so called specially made break in oil and a oil of the same viscosity. On the labels they all have the same SAE and API specs....so In my way of thinking if they were totally different in compositon it would have a different spec all together.....
What may be a perfectly suitable oil in one engine for routine use may be indeed be classed as a break in oil in another..I would not be afraid to bet the oil is all in one tank, and they have x amont of containers to be filled with a regular say 5-30 oil to fill and an order for break in oil as well. So other than some hyped up working and the term Break-In oil, which may be infact classed as a break in oil when it is not any different in all reality, it all goes from one tank into the two different containers..........Only difference is labeling.

Unless someone from the petroleum industry sheds light on this, its just something we will never really know.....if its marketing or for real........in todays world I just don't trust too many if none at all of the manufacturers. Just skeptical thats all........


Yes, its just for a short duration, but that part that states if breakin oil is not available use "XXXXX", that tells me why bother, its suitable for use at that point so why would there be a need otherwise.

Will the real "break-in" oil please stand up!

" since it comes in the engine from the factory" what comes in from the factory, something they "call" break in oil , simply because it will not holdup to the rigors of the machines capability or an actual break in oil, that actually will do more than a like common oil will provide. I want to see specs.........I may swallow my words, but its still a pretty dark area when it comes to actual specs being given out by manufactuers and petroleum product packers.


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## Chipmaker (Sep 16, 2003)

Call me paranoid but how do you actually know its not a deal between marketing and engineering.......since a light weight oil is used usually, therfore a lightweight oil could be classed as a break in oil........and wored right make it sound like its a special concoction of special additives. What I would like to see is a printout of actual difference between the so called specially made break in oil and a oil of the same viscosity. On the labels they all have the same SAE and API specs....so In my way of thinking if they were totally different in compositon it would have a different spec all together......Unless someone from the petroleum industry sheds light on this, its just somehting we will never really know.....if its marketing or for real........in todays world I just don't trust too many if none at all of the manufacturers. Just skeptical thats all........


Yes, its just for a short duration, but that part that states if breakin oil is not available use "XXXXX", that tells me why bother, its suitable for use at that point so why would there be a need otherwise.

Will the real "break-in" oil please stand up!

" since it comes in the engine from the factory" what comes in from the factory, something they "call" break in oil , simply because it will not holdup to the rigors of the machines capability or an actual break in oil, that actually will do more than a like common oil will provide. I want to see specs.........I may swallow my words, but its still a pretty dark area when it comes to actual specs being given out by manufactuers and petroleum product packers.


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## GreenMtnMan (Jan 9, 2004)

Maybe. But from a business perspective it is usually more profitable to minimize inventory and packaging costs. Since the market for Break-In oil is so small, and JD's market for this product is almost exclusively JD owners, and since the product is used only for the first hundred hours or so of machine operation, I can't see it being a big profit center. So where is the benefit to them to do this?


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## Chipmaker (Sep 16, 2003)

Just think about how many JD dealers there are world wide, and if each one of them sells a case of so called break in oil in a year, thats a heap of oil sold, and in todays marketing world a buck is a buck and it all adds up no matter what extent or length they have to go to to get it, and if its just a different label and name, they capitolize on it. More choices for more customer potential = more profit in the end.

I sent a few emails and have a phone call in to one major oil company who told me that the person I needed to talk to was not handy at the present time, but promised they would get back to me on the break in oil question. I'll just have to wait and see if they do.

In the meantime I have called every automotive dealership in this area, as well as all farm tractor and small engine powered equipment dealers and surprising a it may be to some, only JD had any kind of break in oil on their shelfs for sale. But when questioned further, they all said I could use whatever oil was recomended if I wanted to and it would not hurt a thing.

From Audi to Volkswagon to Porsche, to New Holland , Massey F, and International / Case and Caterpillar etc they all told me the same thing, they do not use any oils other than the recomended oils for this region and as far as they knew there really was not a break in oil used anymore in modern day engines except by a couple of manufactuers and that it really was not a true break in oil........All did say just do not add synthetic until the engine is fully broken in, as it will keep it from wearing in properly or may not wear in at all and possibly cause worse problems.


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## GreenMtnMan (Jan 9, 2004)

If JD didn't have break-in oil wouldn't they just sell regular oil instead? I can't see how the small incremental increase in oil sales would justify the extra packaging, shipping, and inventory costs.

It will be interesting to know what your oil sources reveal.

Even if your theory is correct the JD recommendations are so easy and inexpensive to follow I can't see the downside to just following them. If nothing else it would add to ones defense if a warranty claim is ever made for excess oil consumption.

One interesting thing I noticed - you said that they all recommend not to change to synthetics until the engine is broken in. How can they then explain that manufacturers from Porsche to Corvette use synthetics as factory fill?

The problem with oil discussions is that there is so much myth mixed in with reality it's hard to tell the difference.


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## Chipmaker (Sep 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by GreenMtnMan _
> *One interesting thing I noticed - you said that they all recommend not to change to synthetics until the engine is broken in. How can they then explain that manufacturers from Porsche to Corvette use synthetics as factory fill?
> 
> The problem with oil discussions is that there is so much myth mixed in with reality it's hard to tell the difference. *


Corvettes and Porsche are broken in at the factory using a straight mineral based oil on a dyno They can monitor and tune these engines precisly during their runup. Do you know how long it actually takes to break in a new corvette engine at the fatory...less than 10 minutes run time. I have a freind that bought a brand new corvette and was able to go to the factory to see it being made etc. (standard proceedure offered to corvette buyers so it seems) I distinctly remember him saying it was astonishing that they actually broke in a new engine from scratch in 10 minutes of run time, and during that run, it was held up at high rpms and loads, (under controlled conditions of course) The run time was not to fit and wear in the bearings etc but ring to cylinder wall. Thats really all your breaking in on an engine is the ring to wall fit......If another part in the engine is so tight it required breaking it there is a problem.......and bearings and valves etc ride on an oil film so there should not be any real metal to metal contact to speak of. Rings ride against the cyulinder wall scraping oil off the wall, and only the skirt & wrist pin gets any real true lube and that does not or should not really ride against the cylinder anyhow. The hone pattern is there on the cylinder for the rings to seat and wear into to make a tight seal, and in thre process this hone pattern also wears down some.

I got an email back from Mobil.. They simply stated they donot make what would be generally called a true break in oil as to what break in oils of yesteryear used to be. Back then it was a straight mineral based oil that was intended to cause wear on internals of an engine. Todays manufacturing technology has all but eliminated that need. It was basically a straight mineral based oil without any additives made specifically to allow wear, and in todays engines it would not hold up. Also informed me that while at one time they did make this break in oil, demand for it has dropped, and no further info could be given as what it was actually made with is still propreitary info.

Got another back from Shell, and the only break in oil they make is for use in gas powered aircraft engines (aeroshell), which need this oil due to the type of material their cylinders are made of, and the importance of knowing how its wearing and that its broken in so that upon breakin a proper SOAP record can be started to fullfill FAA requirements, but they did not make or package any breakin oils formulated for water cooled engines etc.

Still have not gotten the phone call I was promised back yet from Chevron.


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## Chipmaker (Sep 16, 2003)

*Copy of email from Chevron*

Date: 8/31/2004 12:30:36 -0500
From: "Lube Tek Call Center" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: EMAIL CHEVRON - General Questions All headers 
We do not make a break-in oil, but usually they are just an older
formulation of oil that lets the equipment wear a little more than usual so the rings will seat. We do not know of any companies that still make a break-in oil. There are oils made to certain specifications , but they are for Extreme Heavy Duty diesel engines typically found in heavy equipment and marine use where a fairly constant speed is required.
Today's passenger cars and similar internal combustion engine powered equipment does not require the use of a break-in oil.

-----Original Message-----
From: CHEVWEB 
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 12:24 PM
To: Lube Tek Call Center
Subject: FW: EMAIL CHEVRON - General Questions


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## GreenMtnMan (Jan 9, 2004)

Again, I would not presume to know more than the Porsche or Corvette factory engineers, but that 10-minute break-in is contrary to my experience. When I buy a new car there is usually a distinct point where the engine suddenly feels broken-in and the mileage it gets usually increases 1-2 mpg. This point has always been between 10 and 12k miles in my experience. That's a lot more than a 10-minute break-in. But what the heck do I know? I just follow manufacturers recommendations.

Regarding the Chevron email, do our CUTs fall in the "heavy equipment and marine use where a fairly constant speed is required" category?


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## Chipmaker (Sep 16, 2003)

I would not think they would. The manual usually says to vary speeds and loads..........From what I gather marine use is those big honkin diesel engines used in freighters etc. The motors in them all run at a constant rpm, and they vary the props pitch or vary it by way of a gear unit. Same for the land based units, like those huge diesel powered gen sets that when on line need to stay at a constant rpm, ot those giant earthmoving machines, which use a constant rpm diesel to power electric motors or hydrulics with, and control speeds and functions by varying the output of the elctricity or hydraulics not by using the engine itself.

When broke in on a dyno engineers can monitor all kinds of areas and make adjustments as needed. Since its really only the rings to cylinder thats getting seated I don't see why it could not be done with an oil that that does not really provide a lot of lub under controlled conditions such as a dyno and mon=itoring equipment. The makers of Porsche and Vettes know darn well a lot of the customers are gonna put their foot into it and their method probably saves lots of complaints on oil consumption down the road. I wold also venture to say that the loosening up you feel is more in the driveline related items than the engine itself. Clutches wear in, gears all wear into a wear pattern, auto tranny clutches and bands all wear in so there is a heap of other things in a vehicle or tractor that wears in or is not geared to constant stress, and temps like cast iron or alumin heads and blocks will all vary during its initial use even though these items are not treated like wear items as much as they are treated like an item that needs to cure or stabilize. Everything I have read or found out on engine break in concerns seating of rings to cylinder, nothing else.

Aopther way I look at it is:
If John Deere does in fact use a breakin oil, why? Seems they are in the minority.........is it that they can make a engine quicker without having to pay minute detail and attention to finish machining processes and then let the customer finish the actual run in of these parts, and at the same time give the rest of the machines compmonents a chance to wear in as well.........so that does not mean that JD makes the #1 engine, they just take advantage of letting the customer do some of the work on the engines rings / cylinder final fit instead of them. Yet another step eliminated in a manufacturing process. If we all cared so much about our engines we would be having SOAP samples done on a routine basis instead of just changing oil. They do soap samaples on aircraft engines, and its going to show high iron content on a new or rebuilt engine due to the nature of the cylinders and rings seating in. Its after they get the high Fe established and the content starts to drop, they know that the engine as pretty well seated its rings and little to no wear is going to happen, and given that all other content readings are within acceptable levels they then change to a synthetic or petroleum based oil. This is all done in about 15 to 20 hours run time in a enviroonment under certain conditions before that plane even makes its first full powered takeoff. It takes time to do these things as well as money for soap's. Cuts and most alal other engines just don;t run in such an environment and doing such would be cost prohibitive in most cases if this same process was applied to all engines, no matter who built them. A little oil consumption while most of us don't like it is not going to kill you but on a piece of equipment such as ain aircraft, or constant rpm powered stuff they have to break it in manually in a controlled and monitored environment.........


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