# how to test starter/ solenoid Craftsman GT 3000



## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

Hello,
My Craftsman GT 3000 does nothing when turning the ignition key. No click, no sounds. I used a multimeter and tested the battery, the ignition switch, the pto switch, the brake switch, the positive cable to the solenoid from the battery, the blue wire from the solenoid to the ignition switch and the fuse. When I touch a wrench to the 2 terminals on the bottom of the solenoid, the starter just spins but does not engage the flywheel. I removed the starter with the attached solenoid. Anyone know correct procedure to bench test them?


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

Photos of the starter/solenoid


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

I would connect jumper cables from battery, black negative to starter metal case. Red positive to large lug (red arrow). Then jumper (blue arrow) that lug to the 1/4" small tab. The starter motor should spin and gear come out so it engages flywheel gear teeth.









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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

fuddy1952 said:


> I would connect jumper cables from battery, black negative to starter metal case. Red positive to large lug (red arrow). Then jumper (blue arrow) that lug to the 1/4" small tab. The starter motor should spin and gear come out so it engages flywheel gear teeth.
> View attachment 74304
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


Thanks fuddy1952 for your reply.🖒
I will give that a try and post what happens.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

fuddy1952 said:


> I would connect jumper cables from battery, black negative to starter metal case. Red positive to large lug (red arrow). Then jumper (blue arrow) that lug to the 1/4" small tab. The starter motor should spin and gear come out so it engages flywheel gear teeth.
> View attachment 74304
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


If a Kohler 25-098 series starter spins, but does not engage, it's usually the bendix and not the solenoid. The solenoid is just the magnetic switch.... From what you described, it's working. The bendix is the actual mechanical drive that is not engaging the flywheel. A new bendix for the 25-098 series of Kohler starters (*2575533S*) is stupid expensive. On the latest 25-098 series starters, the Solenoid is mounted with torx head studs, and a real PITA to change without stripping or breaking those studs. Your -08 starter is a Delco and you can usually change that solenoid (*2543504S*), but it's gonna be more than the cost of an aftermarket starter, if you can find it..... A new aftermarket starter on Amazon is $75 with a 1 year warranty 

25098 Starter Parts @ Jack's


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

Bob Driver said:


> If a Kohler 25-098 series starter spins, but does not engage, it's usually the bendix and not the solenoid. The solenoid is just the magnetic switch.... From what you described, it's working. The bendix is the actual mechanical drive that is not engaging the flywheel. A new bendix for the 25-098 series of Kohler starters (*2575533S*) is stupid expensive. On the latest 25-098 series starters, the Solenoid is mounted with torx head studs, and a real PITA to change without stripping or breaking those studs. Your -08 starter is a Delco and you can usually change that solenoid (*2543504S*), but it's gonna be more than the cost of an aftermarket starter, if you can find it..... A new aftermarket starter on Amazon is $75 with a 1 year warranty
> 
> 25098 Starter Parts @ Jack's


Hi Bob Driver,
Thanks for the info. This GT3000 was purchased in 2004 so it has had lots of years of use. I haven't had a chance to do the starter bench test but what you have posted makes sense. Everything for this GT3000 is exxpensive to replace. I usually have to seriously search to get the best price. And just pricing 2575533S and 2543504S Yikes! on the pricing.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Pa diy lady said:


> Hi Bob Driver,
> Thanks for the info. This GT3000 was purchased in 2004 so it has had lots of years of use. I haven't had a chance to do the starter bench test but what you have posted makes sense. Everything for this GT3000 is exxpensive to replace. I usually have to seriously search to get the best price. And just pricing 2575533S and 2543504S Yikes! on the pricing.


Caltric out of Pacoima, CA has pretty good prices on Kohler starters. I've installed quite a few over the last couple of years and they're all still working as far as I know. They usually ship FREE and it's generally 3-4 days to here in MS

Caltric 25-098-08 Starter $56


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

Bob Driver said:


> If a Kohler 25-098 series starter spins, but does not engage, it's usually the bendix and not the solenoid. The solenoid is just the magnetic switch.... From what you described, it's working. The bendix is the actual mechanical drive that is not engaging the flywheel. A new bendix for the 25-098 series of Kohler starters (*2575533S*) is stupid expensive. On the latest 25-098 series starters, the Solenoid is mounted with torx head studs, and a real PITA to change without stripping or breaking those studs. Your -08 starter is a Delco and you can usually change that solenoid (*2543504S*), but it's gonna be more than the cost of an aftermarket starter, if you can find it..... A new aftermarket starter on Amazon is $75 with a 1 year warranty
> 
> 25098 Starter Parts @ Jack's


Just to clarify what I said was true...when starter runs the starter gear comes out whether via Bendix (mechanical) or solenoid (electrical). If Bendix it wouldn't hurt to spray penetrating oil or similar in there in case Bendix is simply stuck.
If it doesn't do that, you found some good sources for new starter at a good price.

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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

fuddy1952 said:


> Just to clarify what I said was true...when starter runs the starter gear comes out whether via Bendix (mechanical) or solenoid (electrical). If Bendix it wouldn't hurt to spray penetrating oil or similar in there in case Bendix is simply stuck.
> If it doesn't do that, you found some good sources for new starter at a good price.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


Thanks fuddy1952, understood. I already sprayed penetrating oil yesterday, figured I'd let it set awhile, give the oil some time do its thing before testing. Fingers crossed and pray to God the starter gear pops up but yes, a "Thanks! to Bob Driver" for where to purchase a reasonably priced new starter if needed.


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

Bob Driver said:


> Caltric out of Pacoima, CA has pretty good prices on Kohler starters. I've installed quite a few over the last couple of years and they're all still working as far as I know. They usually ship FREE and it's generally 3-4 days to here in MS
> 
> Caltric 25-098-08 Starter $56


Thanks for the link Bob Driver, much appreciated!


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

fuddy1952 said:


> Just to clarify what I said was true...when starter runs the starter gear comes out whether via Bendix (mechanical) or solenoid (electrical). If Bendix it wouldn't hurt to spray penetrating oil or similar in there in case Bendix is simply stuck.
> If it doesn't do that, you found some good sources for new starter at a good price.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


If the starter motor spins, the solenoid is energizing. It's the mechanical bendix that is not engaging. The actual drive in a Kohler bendix unit (sprag gear) is a sealed unit. Spraying penetrating oil into it, only puts oil on the commutator, windings, and brushes in the starter motor. They are no longer built like the starter bendix system on automotive starters you may be familiar with from years ago.

*2575533S Kohler Starter Bendix*


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

Oh well, then praying I am. Thanks Bob Driver! Although spraying oil has often helped with other parts, .


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Pa diy lady said:


> Oh well, then praying I am. Thanks Bob Driver! Although spraying oil has often helped with other parts, .


Spraying possibly flammable oil into an *electrical component* that is drawing 150 amps is not a generally Recommended Maintenance Practice (RMP)🥴


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

Update: Bench tested the GT3000 starter motor using fuddy1952 photo and directions for connecting jumper cables. Starter motor runs but the gear does not move up at all. Tried several different times with same result.
Any other suggestions on anything else to check before I seriously consider purchase of this starter ?


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

Bob Driver said:


> Spraying possibly flammable oil into an *electrical component* that is drawing 150 amps is not a generally Recommended Maintenance Practice (RMP)🥴


I should have made myself clearer, I only spray oil on mechanical parts, usually to loose/clean. I did think long and hard before sprayng oil on the starter. I thought it might lunbricate that gear somehow. I figured it might have just been stcuk with dirt. I did not know that it is all enclosed and that doing that would not help. Next time I will seek advice first. Good point to make Bob Driver. Thanks for the "heads up".


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

So deciding to educate myself on how this bendix 
works and what can cause problems I found this video helpful:
Bendix - how it works, what can be wrong when it doesn't


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

Going to buy a new starter but have to wait until September due to lack of funds - living in temporary rented quarters. Rent expensive.
Will post again at that time with hopefully positive results with a new starter. To be continued.


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

📍UPDATE:
Installed new starter. Still nothing when turning key in ignition. Replaced all switches with brand new. Still nothing. Used mutimeter to test everything. Still nothing.
Perhaps corrosion at connectors problem? Or broken wire somewhere?
Stumped. Next step research cleaning electrical connections in a wire harness. Or any better suggestions from seasoned tractor repair veterans? That's all for now folks.


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## Bob Driver (Nov 1, 2017)

Give further details when you say "Nothing"..... Your old starter was spinning, the bendix just wasn't engaging. Did you accidently blow the main fuse to the key when you changed the starter?


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

No, fuse is good. Bench tested new starter, bendix engaged. When I put in all the new parts ( tested each before installing) still same problem. Turn new key to start in new ignition. No click no starter action. I do remember before this no start issue several times the gt tractor wouldn't start so I cleaned the interlock switch and some of the other electrical connections (operator presence switch connection, ignition switch connection in the starter wiring harness and then the gt tractor started. I am thinking electrical connectors that the switches plug into may be so corroded somewhere the connection breaks. Although the relay switch works (clicks) when bench tested, the connector for it on the wiring harness looks pretty crappy and it is very difficult to get the relay all the way into the connector. I thought to clean all the connectors and see if it works after that. Then maybe replace some (after I learn how). They all look to be in bad shape corrosion wise. Thanks for your reply.


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

Pa diy lady said:


> No, fuse is good. Bench tested new starter, bendix engaged. When I put in all the new parts ( tested each before installing) still same problem. Turn new key to start in new ignition. No click no starter action. I do remember before this no start issue several times the gt tractor wouldn't start so I cleaned the interlock switch and some of the other electrical connections (operator presence switch connection, ignition switch connection in the starter wiring harness and then the gt tractor started. I am thinking electrical connectors that the switches plug into may be so corroded somewhere the connection breaks. Although the relay switch works (clicks) when bench tested, the connector for it on the wiring harness looks pretty crappy and it is very difficult to get the relay all the way into the connector. I thought to clean all the connectors and see if it works after that. Then maybe replace some (after I learn how). They all look to be in bad shape corrosion wise. Thanks for your reply.


Use a meter or test light. Put it across battery to make sure meter or light works. 
Now check switch finding the start terminal...the one that gives power in cranking position. Run a wire from there to starter solenoid connector. 


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

fuddy1952 said:


> Use a meter or test light. Put it across battery to make sure meter or light works.
> Now check switch finding the start terminal...the one that gives power in cranking position. Run a wire from there to starter solenoid connector.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk


Hi fuddy1952,
Thanks for your reply.
Will give that a try.
I only have 12/2 gauge romex house wire on hand, pretty stiff.
I will visit the local NAPA auto supply store (or Walmart or Amazon online) and buy the correct wire, also some dialectric grease, and a can of spray electrical contact cleaner. 
Been mowing 2 acres at this rental cabin with a Makita battery operated hand mower. 
Although self-propelled and surprisingly capable, it gets rather tiring to get it all done.
Lots of walking, lol.
*Question: *
What is the correct wire to look for at the NAPA store or elsewhere?
I started searching online, rather confusing as there are so many.
NAPA wire (Many out of stock at local store)
Walmart wire


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

Here is the wiring digram for this particuolar Craftsman GT in case anyone might need it or is curious:









and the parts numbers:


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

So I found this *post about wire harness repair*:
from Bob Driver
Thanks Bob Driver for posting!
Just in case anyone else is interested too.


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

You want stranded wire same as what's there. This is $6 from Lowe's. Any hardware, building supply, auto parts store would have it. That will at least get it started, just use zip ties so it's away from exhaust, etc.









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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

Thank you very much fuddy52! I got confused with all the wiring choices when I searched online.👍


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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

UPDATE:
I took each connection on the wiring harness apart. Thoroughly cleaned each with CRC. Checked wires were they come into the back of each connector. - Found a white wire loose in the connector that the key ignition switch connects to. Fixed that white wire connection. Connected the battery cables. Fingers crossed, inserted key, turned key to start and lo and behold my gt started! So I suspect that after installing a new starter, fixing that one loose white wire and cleaning and checking all the wire harness connectors did the trick.
So thanks for all the advice. I have learned from this experience and now a little wiser will take better care to keep that wire harness clean and periodically inspected.


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

Thanks for posting fix. You did very well! 

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## Pa diy lady (Aug 11, 2021)

Thanks fuddy1952.
One thing I forgot to mention. The wire harness had lots of zip ties. 2 on the bunch of wires going to the ignition switch. For some reason I decided to cut the zip ties off. That is when I was able to find the loose white wire. With the zip ties on the wire bundle, the white wire did not appear loose being bound the other wires in that bundle. So perhaps a good idea to unbundle wires and check each individually.


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

You have great troubleshooting skills! Good job! 

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## Whereverimayroam (5 mo ago)

@*fuddy1952*

I have a question after reading this thread. When I turn the key I get a click but the start motor doesn't spin. When I check the red wire coming into the solenoid I get 12.47 volts. If I disconnect the black out from the solenoid and connect a multimeter between the black out and the negative of the battery and turn the key I get 9.76v. I'm supposed to get 12+. So in my mind the solenoid is not passing the correct voltage to the start motor.

Being the careless person I am when reconnecting the black to the solenoid I accidentally bridged the positive and the negative of the solenoid and the start motor started spinning however the tractor motor did not engage. This brings me back to the bendix you described earlier. I've never heard of a bendix before but a bendix sounds like a centrifugal clutch. Is it possible that the bendix is not spinning fast enough to engage because of the way I am bridging the solenoid? Do I even need to consider any of this any further considering that I know the solenoid is only putting 9.7v to the start motor and it's just the solenoid that needs to be replaced.?

Lastly, you included a picture of a bendix and I am looking at a solenoid assembly on Amazon. The part you pictured looks like it is included in the top of the assembly found on amazon. Am I concluding correctly that this assembly includes the bendix and if I just replace this assembly entirely the start problem would be resolved regardless if it is the solenoid or the bendix?

This is a link to the assembly on Amazon...








DB Electrical SDR0291 Starter (Kohler 2409801 2509808 2509809 2509811), Starters - Amazon Canada


DB Electrical SDR0291 Starter (Kohler 2409801 2509808 2509809 2509811) in Starters.



www.amazon.ca


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

Whereverimayroam said:


> @*fuddy1952*
> 
> I have a question after reading this thread. When I turn the key I get a click but the start motor doesn't spin. When I check the red wire coming into the solenoid I get 12.47 volts. If I disconnect the black out from the solenoid and connect a multimeter between the black out and the negative of the battery and turn the key I get 9.76v. I'm supposed to get 12+. So in my mind the solenoid is not passing the correct voltage to the start motor.
> 
> ...


Sorry so late seeing this.
Starter load is probably what's dropping voltage. First I'd be sure battery is OK, auto parts stores can load test it.
Solenoid is just a high current switch. Simple test is meter across battery, say it's 12.5v.
Crank...now say it's 11v.
Now meter from ground (frame, engine block) to solenoid large wire (battery side)...should be same 12.5 & 11v reading. 
Now measure other solenoid side (starter side)...it should be 0v until you crank...then should be 11v cranking. Starter motor should have same readings.
When starter motor runs, Bendix allows gear to move up engaging flywheel gear teeth.


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## fuddy1952 (Mar 6, 2021)

Also meter negative on battery negative you should have 0v there to starter body (meter + lead on body), whether cranking or not, otherwise you have a bad ground connection.

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